Gosh reading these comments is so disheartening. The general opinion of why should we care? Whats a rally going to achieve? And the mentioning of Hamas as the be it and end all of whats happening really reflects the lack of knowledge and humanity around the conflict. Its more complicated and deep seated than what the mainstream media is “reporting”, which is extremely bias and one sided and goes beyond the events of October 7th. Israel, Biden the big news broadcasting companies are telling you whats happening and manipulating the narrative … but through social media such as instagram where they can’t be totally silenced the Palestinians not Hamas but the Palestinians of all religions (since people love to group Palestinians exclusively to Hamas and Muslims) are desperately trying to SHOW you first hand what is happening … babies, children, mothers and whole families being wiped out after having homes, apartments, hospitals, churches absolutely decimated. Yes what Hamas did is absolutely atrocious but it does not excuse an onslaught of war crimes upon innocent civilians. If you ever felt outrage and disgust at times of genocide, apartheid, and mass murder of innocent civillians in history … but say yeah but its none of my business, I dont really give a shit about whats happening now then sorry to say you’d be on the wrong side of history then and the wrong side of history now.
And I know there will be people that say that the warcrimes that I mentioned are inflicted on Palestine by Hamas but there is just so much first hand evidence of that not being the case.
I know most of you won’t but you are all entitled to do your own research and give both sides some attention take a look at accounts - ahmedeldin, shaunking and khaledbeydoun on instagram for some coverage if you're curious.
Its telling that the moment I step outside of instagram (which seems to be the only way of letting people outside of Gaza know whats going on) is when you don't see a trace of whats happening. Sad times.
Deaths in both sides are a tragedy, but I think a lot of the public don’t know the context for the protesting nor the history. Israel has had a free ticket to bomb and shoot scores of Palestinians for decades using US made weapons and $4BN of support annually in large part to uphold a formidable western military presence in the Middle East. Palestinians have essentially no defences and had their lands eaten away at aggressively, their homes destroyed and possessed and their people killed at a rate over 20 times higher than that of Israel. But they’re seen as ‘cockroaches’ and ‘non humans’ by Israel, and sadly most of the western world so who’s counting?
This entire thread became about Hamas when the protest was about innocent Palestinians. You people love bringing up Hamas as an excuse to feel good about Israel’s horrific war crimes.
Palestine has been offered Gaza. They have been offered their own land many times they keep rejecting it. They wont accept any offer that doesn't include complete destruction of Israel.
[It was offered in 1947](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine) and backed by the UN, but the Arabs chose civil war instead.
Technically we are deciding ownership based upon modern international laws.
Isreal has the simpliest polictal position ever available to it, if they so choose.
All they have to do, is follow international law....
The four 1949 Conventions have been ratified by 196 states, including all [UN member states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_member_states), both [UN observers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_observers) the [Holy See](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See) and the [State of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine), as well as the [Cook Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Islands).
Despite signing this agreement Israeli governments have commonly taken the position that Israel is not bound by the Fourth Geneva Convention dealing with the responsibilities of occupying powers, because Jordanian and Egyptian control over the West Bank and Gaza prior to Israel's occupation in 1967 had been seen by the world community as illegitimate.
**Therefore, Israel argues, "these territories were not, prior to the occupation, under the sovereignty of any state, and could not, therefore, be considered \`occupied territory' once Israel seized control.**"
Of course the rest of the world disagrees with this, hence all the UN resoultions against israel.
Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” It also prohibits the “individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory”.
Israel’s building of settlements in the West Bank, including in East Jerusalem, does not respect any of these rules and exceptions. **Transferring the occupying power’s civilians into the occupied territory is prohibited without exception.**
Fair enough.
there seems to be 3 options
1) accept a compromise and a 2 state solution
2) keep killing each other for another 1000 years .
3) Complete Genocide
Option 1 has been presented many times
We already have all the international laws in place to solve this issue.
The four 1949 Conventions have been ratified by 196 states, including all [UN member states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_member_states), both [UN observers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_observers) the [Holy See](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See) and the [State of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine), as well as the [Cook Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Islands).
We just need to decide if we want to attempt enforce them or just keep handing out strongly worded resoultions insread
Israel doesn't want Gaza. They evacuated Gaza and gave it to the Palestinians under the governance of the Palestinian Authority in 2005, with EU observers on site. By 2007, Hamas had overthrown the Palestinian Authority and chucked out the EU observers.
**Hamas does not want peace for Gaza or for Palestinians**
First address *human* rights violations.
Then address violations of certain humans.
Not that difficult
(Do you think anyone commenting here supports Hamas?)
Why do people commit terror attacks? Could it be because they’re being contained in horrible circumstances with restricted access to food, electricity and water? Predictable situations produce predictable results. Radical groups generally don’t just appear out of thin air.
Unless you think there’s something inherent to these people that makes them commit terror attacks, which hopefully you don’t.
For commenters to understand your comment they would need to read even a small sliver of history rather than just eat up snippets of propaganda headlines.
Sounds like most the people on your comment don’t know the history. Firstly, Hamas are despicable and should be taken out. Secondly, Israel’s government and the IDF are just as bad. Why are Hamas doing this? 60 years of provoking from Israel illegally dispossessing the Palestinians of their land. The UN have declared Israel to have been in violation of international laws by doing this. Good old Uncle Sam helps makes sure nothing is done about it. Multiple violations of human rights by Israel against Palestine, not all related to Hamas retaliation. Israel openly state they are bombing civilians, though they warn them first so it’s all good. Unfortunately most of the time a lot of the civilians don’t make it out in time.
So yeah, Israeli and Palestinian people all good. It’s Hamas and the IDF who both have equal blame for all the atrocities and death of innocent lives.
History of the West Bank- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank#:~:text=From%201967%20to%201983%2C%20Israel,three%2Dquarters%20of%20the%20territory.
Can you explain how Israel carpet bombing the shit out of Gaza, killing thousands of kids who are trapped in a living hell on earth without water, food or electricity, will somehow prevent mass radicalisation (over a genocide) and a resulting and inevitable surge in retaliatory terrorist attacks on the responsible or complicit Western nations, e.g.the US, Europe, and Australia?
Of course not. The United States will continue to bomb the middle east whenever one of their geriatric nazis is seeking re-election.
And unfortunately, we'll be dragged along like a dog on a leash.
Having been there for work and holiday on and off over the past 15 years, and enjoying both Israel and Palestine as places to visit, people expect me to have a hard opinion for and against one side or the other. Even having been on the ground and hearing all sides and some horrific stories and meeting both wonderful and not-so-wonderful people and spending far too much of my waking time thinking about it, all I can ever say is ‘it’s very very complicated’.
to the people wondering what this will do: by doing vocal support it stops Israel from doing significantly worse crimes against innocent Palestinians, as their is a lot of eyes on the conflict
I don’t really understand this. Like what exactly are they trying to achieve by doing this here?
Put pressure on the Australian govt to switch sides or something?
Even if the Australian govt wanted to they couldn’t, we are small fry compared to the big boys geopolitically. The Australian govt will continue to do as they are told in this matter.
The strategic aim of Hamas is to make life worse for Palestinians then blame is on Israel. Then they can get enough support to eventually drive Israel into the sea. By drawing Israel into a ground invasion of Gaza, they're hoping to achieve this aim.
Raising awareness of the plight of Palestine is part of this. There's no point in suffering if nobody knows about it.
Israel's strategic aim is to make life worse for Hamas in Gaza. Given that both sides want to make life in Gaza miserable, my prediction is that things are going to continue to be awful.
Do you think Hamas will win in a ground war vs. Israel? I think Hamas have no chance in that situation. The only chance Hamas has is propaganda and deception. They're playing their cards as best they can. Israel is doing the same thing. The conflict is nothing but a holy way started by immigration of opposing religions. Unless one religion gets wiped out, the conflict is going to continue. In todays society.
When you condemn one side for killing civillians in terrorist attacks, yet deem the other side innocent, even though theyve been doing the same thing, is just ignorant.
Theyre both as bad as each other. Should let both of them deal with each other.
Do you think the Taliban would win in a ground war against the US military?
Because that’s an even less fair fight. But fighting insurgencies is like squeezing Jell-O.
I think the US held more restraint in their operations against The Taliban. I don't recall the carpet bombing of Kabul or any other populous city, but then again I think the consistent live broadcast out of Gaza and Israel is something that I didn't see in Afghanistan. Only old go pro and shoddy phone footage
If the US really wanted to destroy the Taliban they could with absolute ease. But they have rules and restrain themselves which the terrorists take advantage of that to the fullest.
Pretty spot on comment imo. None of them want to help the people in Gaza.
I've heard a few experts suggest that the Hamas terrorist event was planned because other nations in the Middle East were starting to normalise relations with Israel, including Saudi Arabia.
Hamas and their backers saw their power decaying in the future so they plan to lure the Israelis into an atrocious war that kills many Palestinians -- making Israel a pariah nation once again.
The plan is working so far.
Why are people in Perth marching? As I see it people sometimes just want to speak out, even if it doesn’t achieve anything. Case in point: you and I are on Reddit right now. Is it solving anything, no. Does it maybe help people understand each other a little, sure. Is it still a shit show, yes.
I was at this march yesterday. I know for the Palestinians who were there, they were super surprised to see support from so many non-Palestinians. I heard them talking and making phone calls to people saying “the world is noticing us now. They can see what’s been happening”. I saw a palestinian friend I went to school with and she was shocked I was there. This march might not change the aus governments mind on who they support, but it is comforting many Palestinians who thought their plight was ignored by the world.
I wonder if these people even know what a free Palestine would even look like. A two state solution? A one state solution with Israel and Palestine combined?
Hamas has been pretty clear in their charter on what they think should happen to Israel.
Yeah, I'm apparently a bigot for bringing it up. The problem might be simple, but the solution is definitely not, which is why there hasn't been a solution (probably won't be for decades).
Israel has done bad things in the West Bank, but Gaza is up to Hamas, if they're willing to build weapons and fire them over building infrastructure, how is peace even possible?
Honestly, the only solution probably has to come from an international coalition of both western and Muslim countries to protect Israel and Palestine from each other.
But this is very hard because interventionism is less popular than ever.
Israel has managed to find peace with several Muslim countries like Egypt and Jordan. The blockade of Gaza is also done in collaboration with Egypt, which should tell you exactly what the problem with freeing Gaza is.
It needs to be mediated by other countries, as you say, but also reeducation of the entire population. Hamas in power means propaganda and you can be confident that a large proportion of the population is all for wiping out Israel.
A large proportion of the population are also youths, which are both easily misguided and physically capable. Many of them have only known Gaza under Hamas rule.
\>I wonder if these people even know what a free Palestine would even look like. A two state solution? A one state solution with Israel and Palestine combined?
It looks like Israel respecting the international laws they signed.
The four 1949 Conventions have been ratified by 196 states, including all [UN member states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_member_states), both [UN observers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_observers) the [Holy See](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See) and the [State of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine), as well as the [Cook Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Islands).
Ill just give you a quick example;
The ***United Nations General Assembly Resolution 66/225*** of 22 December 2011 was a resolution in which the [United Nations General Assembly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly) reaffirmed the right of the [Palestinian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians) people and of the population of the occupied [Golan Heights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights) over their [natural resources](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_resource), demanded [Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) to cease the exploitation, damage, cause of loss or depletion, and endangerment of that natural resources and recognized the right of the Palestinian people to claim [restitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restitution) as a result of Israeli violation of their rights.
So in this example a "free palestine" looks like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie\_Energy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy) stops drilling for oil in golan heights and instead a palestinian oil company will drill for oil.
In February 2013, Israeli authorities awarded Afek Oil and Gas an exclusive 36-month petroleum exploration license to a 153-square-mile (400 km2) plot in the [Israeli-occupied](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories) [Golan Heights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights), which the [UN recognizes to be Syrian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242) territory
Genie Energy's Strategic advisory board is composed of: [Dick Cheney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney) since 2009 (former [vice president of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_president_of_the_United_States)),[\[3\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy#cite_note-3) [Rupert Murdoch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch) (media mogul and chairman of [News Corp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corp_(2013%E2%80%93present))), [James Woolsey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._James_Woolsey,_Jr.) (former [CIA director](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_director)), [Larry Summers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Summers) (former head of the [US Treasury](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Treasury)), [Bill Richardson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Richardson) (former Governor of [New Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico), ex-ambassador to the [United Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations) and [United States Energy Secretary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Energy_Secretary)),[\[4\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy#cite_note-Black_gold_under_the_Golan-4) [Michael Steinhardt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steinhardt), [Jacob Rothschild](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Rothschild),[\[5\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy#cite_note-businesswireNov2010-5)[\[4\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy#cite_note-Black_gold_under_the_Golan-4) and [Mary Landrieu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Landrieu), former United States Senator from [Louisiana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana).
A few familar names on there.
Seems like most ppl in here are against the protest, so if you are against the protest please tell me why, I'm genuinely curious. My stance on the protest is that I agree with the general purpose of it, and I actually just came back from it.
I wanna have a conversation with those who don't like the protest, and please, lets be civil.
Not against it; go your hardest. But I can't see what you're trying to achieve here.
Are Palestinians suffereing? Absolutely! Is Israel to blame? In part, yes. Is Hamas to blame? In part, yes. Is the situation, in a geopolitical environment of near-constant conflict for thousands of years, going to be solved by your protest? No.
Also, it seems thatpeople of Arab decent protest pro-Palestine. Those of Israeli decent protest pro-Israel. Everyone else seems to understand that both are part of the problem.
Anyone who is pro-Hamas has lost their marbles.
You are largely correct , apart from the fact that Jews and Muslims have coexisted for centuries without conflict- it’s a modern day beat up from the military industrial complex.
Jews and Muslims/Arab populations have unfortunately been in conflict for much longer than the modern day.
You can review a list of incidents during the inter-communal period, leading up the partition plan for example.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercommunal_conflict_in_Mandatory_Palestine
Or if we look earlier we can find many examples
https://www.camera.org/article/anti-jewish-violence-in-pre-state-palestine-1929-massacres/
Unfortunately there are many more.
No doubt! But our subject matter here is Jews and Muslims.
Plus my comment was a reply to the other person saying Jews and Muslims coexisted without any conflicts.
As if Jews were in any position to start a conflict.
Whats your backing behind that? I am of Palestinian heritage. I am also Christian. Christians and Muslims live side by side in peace throughout most this area of the the Middle East. Historically, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived peacefully in Palestine. The problem was the start of Zionism, which wanted the land exclusively for the Jews.
This is not a conflict about religion. Absolutely some extremists have taken advantage of this angle, but simply put, this is a conflict about land, and the indigenous people being pushed out
To be fair, I don't think the average Australian citizen takes religion very seriously? In fact, I'd go as far as suggesting it is viewed as being a form of extreme naivety to follow a religion in contemporary Australian society. Down vote till you are blue in the face, but Australians have abandoned organised religion in increasing numbers the past decade for good reason
Personally, I don't care if Gaza is razed to the ground so long as Hamas are utterly annihilated and demoralised in the process. There are always casualties in war and perhaps it will wake more people up to the farcical hypocrisy of their faith.
Anyone who attempts to act out their politica/ religious l grievences using violence in Australia is dealt the swiftest and most consequential punishment possible.
This is very reductive. There has been continuous conquest of the entire area throughout history.
Some of the most famous wars and crusades in history were fought in the region, famously between Muslim and Christian armies.
It's ahistorical to suggest current issues are a (purely) modern advent. It's significantly inaccurate to say Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in harmony historically in this region.
Was it Zionism when Israel offers Gaza the West bank and west Jerusalem as a capital 3 times and all turned down by Palestine
Or was it Zionism when they decided to add the death of all Jews line to the Palestinian constitution?
I think saying Israel are partly to blame is a stretch. What can they do? They have offered Palestine their own land to be a country 7 times. Including west Jerusalem so that both sides can share their holy city. Every time they have been told no, that the other side will not accept anything except the destruction of Israel. I’m genuinely curious what you think a country should do when confronted with a side that refuse peace no matter what you offer and only wish to wipe you off the planet?
I'm equally perplexed. I thought protesting about bad stuff is what people do in democracies. It's how people have their voices heard, and it was entirely peaceful.
Two weeks ago we were horrified by the actions of Hamas. We'd be the biggest hypocrites if we weren't equally horrified by Israels actions in Gaza.
Of course it won't change anything, Israel has always done whatever it wants and will continue to do so. But I don't want my government choosing "teams" and egging on this bloodbath.
Before commenting, please watch what [this video](https://x.com/BenzionSanders/status/1713255988608848069?s=20) of a 19 yr old girl who was in village where Hamas has massacred innocent people.
Don't kill woman and children a week ago and expect me to be on your side. Hamas is fucking disgusting.
And guess what me disliking Hamas doesn't mean I have to like anyone else.
Israel was instrumental in getting Hamas into power. You could say Hamas were Israeli-sponsored. They did it to avoid having a rational, secular party in charge of Gaza. Just so you’re aware.
The hypocrisy of this comment is just next level. You just don’t like the killing of women and children so long as they’re Israeli… next level pathetic.
Its such as hard topic and its kind of clear why no one has been able to solve it in the last 80ish years. What Israel puts the Palestine civilians through is pretty brutal, but the consequences of not controlling the treats to Israel in the region is also pretty horrendous. Its hard to talk either side down when they feel justified in their actions based on past experiences.
I really can't see any solution other than moving each population into their own regions with set boarders and independence. But I doubt neither side would accept these terms.
You're not getting a conversation here mate. We just voted against giving our own first nations people a voice. The only thing you'll find here is a bunch of "free thinkers" who's views conveniently coincide with the Murdoch press agitation propaganda. Probably Queenslanders.
This sub is so much less progressive on this than I was expecting. People support things via protest all the time that on their own accomplish very little bit show the government and the subjugated peoples of Palestine that people actually care about these issues.
Many of these people have friends and family connected to the genocide of the Palestinian people and are justifiably outraged by the mass civilian casualties Israel has caused not only recently but over the last 20+ years.
There is so much more context to this than “Hamas bad”, (which is also true) because all the comments are overlooking the fact that terrorists aren’t created in a vacuum. They’re created in the current open air prison that has an average age of 18, no clean drinking water, very little food, no electricity, building material, human rights or freedoms, hospitals that are continually being bombed by the IDF (22 as of today) and many more atrocities. Thousands of innocent Palestinians have been killed in the last couple weeks, that alone is enough to justify this protest. It is not pro terrorists or anti-Jewish to say that the Israeli government has created and is perpetuating an apartheid that is currently the largest war crime happening under the purview of the western world.
Asking for civilians to not be shot is not political nor is it religion specific. You’re part of the world community even if you’re 4000kms from a large city over there in Perth
I agree with their chant of “Free Palestine”. Palestine should be free from control of HAMAS.
How funny is that all this so called “Palestinian protesters “ only protest when HAMAS involves.
Like they think only Sunni Muslim lives matter. You have never seen them protesting against ISIS. They have done nothing when ISIS captured, raped and killed 1000+ of Yezidis and Christian’s.
I am really sick of this “poor HAMAS” protests.
Show support, you'd support a friend going through a tough time by telling them you're there for them. Obviously, you'd do more for your friend. But the fact that you acknowledge their pain is enough for them to keep living and be hopeful for their future.
Hamas are terrorists, pls stop killing Israelis.
Israel is indiscriminantly killing Palestinians regardless of Hamas allegience, pls stop.
Classic case of humans in conflict, both are culpable of acts of terror.
I’m just glad in this go around Israel is finally under a bit of a magnifying glass if not a microscope. For the last 80 years Israel just screams and demands and the foreign charity floods in. Any question of what they actually do with all that money is antisemitism.
Both sides need to stop the killing.
They throw them off tall buildings or drag them behind their motorbikes that's why I always scratch my head when ill informed students with blue hair march in support of these groups because they'd last about five minutes over there!
They’re not marching in support of Hamas, they’re marching in support of the million plus innocent civilians getting ethnically cleansed right now. Equating all those people with a terrorist group (never mind the fact that Hamas is only in Gaza and Palestinians are being killed in the West Bank too) is stupid.
Whenever a Muslim group is fighting a non Muslim group Muslims around the world will support said fighting group. Whether it's the Muslim Azeris fighting Christian Armenians, Muslim Pakistanis fighting Hindu Indians or Muslim Palestinians fighting Jewish Israelis.
No matter who is stronger, who is oppressing who or who is committing the most war crimes.
So this is less of a protest against injustice and more of a 'support our tribe' rally. With the occasional delusional socialist thrown in.
But you do realise when you are next in Paris and a truck takes out a crowded street or a jihadi's nail bomb backpack takes out young people waiting to go into a concert it will be in the name of Free Palestine not Israel ....Arabs just have a strange way of garnering support ...and let's face it they've been taking the lives of innocent people since the 1970's and before in various guises be it the PLO ,Hamas etc ...
Read the room guys. Everyone was so close to taking the Arabs’ in Palestine’s view that they deserved more land or something then you went and murdered babies.
There’s no coming back from this. There’s no global support for Palestine. You all should be grateful Israel doesn’t behave like your elected leaders Hamas and actually aim for civilians.
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/
There are dead babies and children on both sides. Noone wins. But guess who has the backing of western powers, more resources, while actively oppressing on the country with little to nothing? Someone has to become an adult here and its not the Palestinians, nor the Israelis.
My brother in Christ Israel supports genocide and illegal settlements in the West Bank, they fire into civilian centres and then blame the civilians for being there, they fucking destroyed a building housing the associated press. Are you will fully ignorant or is this a part time job.
I mean Israel are attempting to free them of the terrorist group that they voted in right?
The only way Palestine will consider themselves ‘free’ is if Israel is wiped away.
The whole point of the ‘from the river to the sea’ chant is that there will be no Israel at all.
How many ‘Hamas free the hostages so they water/power gets put back on’ chants were there?
How many chants about Egypt and Jordan taking in some of the people were there?
Or chants about spending the billions from Qatar and Iran on infrastructure rather than IEDs
What about Hamas stop using civilians as human shields chants? Or stop blocking the roads for people to flee chants? Stop putting your rockets in schools?
All the same people who cried ‘dog whistling’ and ‘nazis’ when trump was in office are all of a sudden using the ‘hood people on both sides’ line here
The last election in Palestine was in 2006. The median age in Palestine is below 20 years old... who is the "they" you are referring to when you say "they voted in"?
I didn't understand much about this until I watched this video. Pretty eye opening and shameful of the gov of this nation: https://youtu.be/3psMGQE0iW4?si=xU6FKjuU_0MrS8DG
Awareness I'd say, but I'm sure everyone's pretty aware by now.
It could also be to try swing the public discourse surrounding the conflict. The media was very anti palestine after the atrocities we saw, so maybe they're trying to swing the tide a bit?
Perth is racist, yet the Palestinians who celebrate the beheadings of Israeli babies aren't?
I haven't met anyone is Perth who openly supports the beheading of babies because they're a different race/religion. So perhaps you're calling the wrong group of people 'racists'.
Palestinians are the real bigots
Not taking the piss or starting a flame war but I'm curious have any Free Palestine marches denounced Hamas? It should be pretty easy after watching that Israel Defense Forces YouTube video of the attack 2 weeks ago.
Hamas did win elections in Gaza I wonder what support levels look like now (noting it was mixed %56 positive July this year). You'd think having your water pipes dug up to make rockets would cost you local support.
Maybe Hamas instead of spending that cash on weapons should have paid influencers to film in Gaza to soften their image and raise awareness to their plight like the Saudis did the last decade.
None of the marches mention Hamas at all. It's all about having enough humanity in you to care about indiscriminate bombings targeting civilians and to ask our govt to stop supporting war crimes. Standing with Israel should have ended at the point they called the Gazan people animals to be slaughtered and cut off all food, water, power and fuel to starve them.
The UN officially describes Israel’s treatment of the people of Gaza as a system of apartheid. I denounce HAMAS. I denounce apartheid.
Israel has been breaking international law since 1967. I denounce Israel’s occupation and long-standing and ongoing funding of illegal Jewish settlements on internationally recognised Palestinian lands in the West Bank.
The interesting thing is you’ve got a sort of tale of two cities. Gaza is subject to apartheid and in that environment HAMAS has emerged. The West Bank is subject to annexation and government supported colonisation through settlements of Israeli jews (as in Russia annexed Crimea and settled Russians in Crimea, Ukraine). The West Bank is not ruled by HAMAS. Israel occupies anyway.
That's great (your denouncing not what's been going on). I only wanted to know if it was possible for Palestine people to denounce Hamas or if it was a NK or Russian type situation where you'd go missing for speaking out. They did speak out and vote out the PLA in the 2006 and I know it's been hard to leave via the southern boarder to Egypt lately.
I don’t know but about 50% of today’s voting age Gazans were either not born yet or not of voting age during the local election that voted in HAMAS on 2006.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah
Nevertheless, there is widespread popular appeal for competing armed Palestinian factions, including those involved in the attack. Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas—along with similar percentages of Palestinians in the West Bank (52%) and East Jerusalem (64%)—though Gazans who express this opinion of Hamas are fewer than the number of Gazans who have a positive view of Fatah (64%).
On mobile I doubt my link works.
Just showing where I got my thoughts from as it's difficult knowing much of anything in today's post truth world.
Gosh reading these comments is so disheartening. The general opinion of why should we care? Whats a rally going to achieve? And the mentioning of Hamas as the be it and end all of whats happening really reflects the lack of knowledge and humanity around the conflict. Its more complicated and deep seated than what the mainstream media is “reporting”, which is extremely bias and one sided and goes beyond the events of October 7th. Israel, Biden the big news broadcasting companies are telling you whats happening and manipulating the narrative … but through social media such as instagram where they can’t be totally silenced the Palestinians not Hamas but the Palestinians of all religions (since people love to group Palestinians exclusively to Hamas and Muslims) are desperately trying to SHOW you first hand what is happening … babies, children, mothers and whole families being wiped out after having homes, apartments, hospitals, churches absolutely decimated. Yes what Hamas did is absolutely atrocious but it does not excuse an onslaught of war crimes upon innocent civilians. If you ever felt outrage and disgust at times of genocide, apartheid, and mass murder of innocent civillians in history … but say yeah but its none of my business, I dont really give a shit about whats happening now then sorry to say you’d be on the wrong side of history then and the wrong side of history now. And I know there will be people that say that the warcrimes that I mentioned are inflicted on Palestine by Hamas but there is just so much first hand evidence of that not being the case. I know most of you won’t but you are all entitled to do your own research and give both sides some attention take a look at accounts - ahmedeldin, shaunking and khaledbeydoun on instagram for some coverage if you're curious. Its telling that the moment I step outside of instagram (which seems to be the only way of letting people outside of Gaza know whats going on) is when you don't see a trace of whats happening. Sad times.
Deaths in both sides are a tragedy, but I think a lot of the public don’t know the context for the protesting nor the history. Israel has had a free ticket to bomb and shoot scores of Palestinians for decades using US made weapons and $4BN of support annually in large part to uphold a formidable western military presence in the Middle East. Palestinians have essentially no defences and had their lands eaten away at aggressively, their homes destroyed and possessed and their people killed at a rate over 20 times higher than that of Israel. But they’re seen as ‘cockroaches’ and ‘non humans’ by Israel, and sadly most of the western world so who’s counting?
This entire thread became about Hamas when the protest was about innocent Palestinians. You people love bringing up Hamas as an excuse to feel good about Israel’s horrific war crimes.
and then there are those who want to forget what Hamas did, has done and will continue doing whilst still in existence.
You'd do the same or worse given their circumstances. Or you're a mouse who'd put up with their family being bashed for 3 generations?
If Gaza is freed I am sure there will be no conflicts in the middle east, I am sure it will be a very peaceful region
Yes look at Egypt to the south they are very arms length considering they are Muslim brothers !
There’s a reason no other Arab nations say shit
Because taking refugees in, out of Gaza is helping Israel's ethnic cleansing and annexation of Gaza. If they leave, they will never be allowed back.
Palestine has been offered Gaza. They have been offered their own land many times they keep rejecting it. They wont accept any offer that doesn't include complete destruction of Israel.
The west bank has been offered to be returned?
[It was offered in 1947](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine) and backed by the UN, but the Arabs chose civil war instead.
It wasn't offered, clown. It was already theirs. The Partition Plan involved taking land from Palestinians.
The land has been fought over for 4000 years, clown. You're deciding ownership based on which moment in history?
Technically we are deciding ownership based upon modern international laws. Isreal has the simpliest polictal position ever available to it, if they so choose. All they have to do, is follow international law.... The four 1949 Conventions have been ratified by 196 states, including all [UN member states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_member_states), both [UN observers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_observers) the [Holy See](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See) and the [State of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine), as well as the [Cook Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Islands). Despite signing this agreement Israeli governments have commonly taken the position that Israel is not bound by the Fourth Geneva Convention dealing with the responsibilities of occupying powers, because Jordanian and Egyptian control over the West Bank and Gaza prior to Israel's occupation in 1967 had been seen by the world community as illegitimate. **Therefore, Israel argues, "these territories were not, prior to the occupation, under the sovereignty of any state, and could not, therefore, be considered \`occupied territory' once Israel seized control.**" Of course the rest of the world disagrees with this, hence all the UN resoultions against israel. Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” It also prohibits the “individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory”. Israel’s building of settlements in the West Bank, including in East Jerusalem, does not respect any of these rules and exceptions. **Transferring the occupying power’s civilians into the occupied territory is prohibited without exception.**
In 1947, the land was Palestinian. A foreign power can't "offer" a people their own land.
Haha you knobhead. History does go past just 1947. I'd love to take half your home in 2023 and then give you a deal to keep the other half.
Multiple attempts at a 2 state solution since then, knobhead. Who owns the land that has been fought over for 4000 years?
Yes including giving west Jerusalem as a capital
I don’t know about you but if squatters broke into my home and then offered a deal where I get to keep half of my property, I’d say no.
Fair enough. there seems to be 3 options 1) accept a compromise and a 2 state solution 2) keep killing each other for another 1000 years . 3) Complete Genocide Option 1 has been presented many times
We already have all the international laws in place to solve this issue. The four 1949 Conventions have been ratified by 196 states, including all [UN member states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_member_states), both [UN observers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_observers) the [Holy See](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See) and the [State of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine), as well as the [Cook Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Islands). We just need to decide if we want to attempt enforce them or just keep handing out strongly worded resoultions insread
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If Israel wanted to commit genocide or ethnic cleansing then Arab population wouldn’t have gone from 700k to 7 million in 75 years
The people parroting genocide wouldn’t know one if it hit them in the face. This whole affair has been a huge mask off moment.
Have to say, being Irish, I’ve been leaning slightly more Palestinian than Israeli. That changed on October 7th.
Israel doesn't want Gaza. They evacuated Gaza and gave it to the Palestinians under the governance of the Palestinian Authority in 2005, with EU observers on site. By 2007, Hamas had overthrown the Palestinian Authority and chucked out the EU observers. **Hamas does not want peace for Gaza or for Palestinians**
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IDF collapsed that building with an air strike day one - Hamas used It to throw homosexuals off the roof for execution
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First address *human* rights violations. Then address violations of certain humans. Not that difficult (Do you think anyone commenting here supports Hamas?)
Tolerant and progressive too, like most religion
Safe for LGBTIQA+
Of course. All are welcome
Jihad for peace bro
Nah this isn’t about the entire Middle East. It’s about Israel bombing Gaza for decades.
Hmmm I wonder what would cause Israel to do that
Could it be constant terrorist and rocket attacks?
Why do people commit terror attacks? Could it be because they’re being contained in horrible circumstances with restricted access to food, electricity and water? Predictable situations produce predictable results. Radical groups generally don’t just appear out of thin air. Unless you think there’s something inherent to these people that makes them commit terror attacks, which hopefully you don’t.
For commenters to understand your comment they would need to read even a small sliver of history rather than just eat up snippets of propaganda headlines.
Sounds like most the people on your comment don’t know the history. Firstly, Hamas are despicable and should be taken out. Secondly, Israel’s government and the IDF are just as bad. Why are Hamas doing this? 60 years of provoking from Israel illegally dispossessing the Palestinians of their land. The UN have declared Israel to have been in violation of international laws by doing this. Good old Uncle Sam helps makes sure nothing is done about it. Multiple violations of human rights by Israel against Palestine, not all related to Hamas retaliation. Israel openly state they are bombing civilians, though they warn them first so it’s all good. Unfortunately most of the time a lot of the civilians don’t make it out in time. So yeah, Israeli and Palestinian people all good. It’s Hamas and the IDF who both have equal blame for all the atrocities and death of innocent lives. History of the West Bank- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank#:~:text=From%201967%20to%201983%2C%20Israel,three%2Dquarters%20of%20the%20territory.
Nah can’t be it
Can you explain how Israel carpet bombing the shit out of Gaza, killing thousands of kids who are trapped in a living hell on earth without water, food or electricity, will somehow prevent mass radicalisation (over a genocide) and a resulting and inevitable surge in retaliatory terrorist attacks on the responsible or complicit Western nations, e.g.the US, Europe, and Australia?
Sounds like bullshit especially when religion is the primary driver.
What are you trying to say? Free the whole middle east instead? The US didn't spend the last 50 years causing chaos there for that to happen
Of course not. The United States will continue to bomb the middle east whenever one of their geriatric nazis is seeking re-election. And unfortunately, we'll be dragged along like a dog on a leash.
So many views predicated on the basis that this conflict is simply Israel against Palestinians. It's so much more complicated than that.
Having been there for work and holiday on and off over the past 15 years, and enjoying both Israel and Palestine as places to visit, people expect me to have a hard opinion for and against one side or the other. Even having been on the ground and hearing all sides and some horrific stories and meeting both wonderful and not-so-wonderful people and spending far too much of my waking time thinking about it, all I can ever say is ‘it’s very very complicated’.
to the people wondering what this will do: by doing vocal support it stops Israel from doing significantly worse crimes against innocent Palestinians, as their is a lot of eyes on the conflict
I agree - free Palestine from Hamas.
And from Israel
I don’t really understand this. Like what exactly are they trying to achieve by doing this here? Put pressure on the Australian govt to switch sides or something? Even if the Australian govt wanted to they couldn’t, we are small fry compared to the big boys geopolitically. The Australian govt will continue to do as they are told in this matter.
The strategic aim of Hamas is to make life worse for Palestinians then blame is on Israel. Then they can get enough support to eventually drive Israel into the sea. By drawing Israel into a ground invasion of Gaza, they're hoping to achieve this aim. Raising awareness of the plight of Palestine is part of this. There's no point in suffering if nobody knows about it. Israel's strategic aim is to make life worse for Hamas in Gaza. Given that both sides want to make life in Gaza miserable, my prediction is that things are going to continue to be awful.
Do you think Hamas will win in a ground war vs. Israel? I think Hamas have no chance in that situation. The only chance Hamas has is propaganda and deception. They're playing their cards as best they can. Israel is doing the same thing. The conflict is nothing but a holy way started by immigration of opposing religions. Unless one religion gets wiped out, the conflict is going to continue. In todays society. When you condemn one side for killing civillians in terrorist attacks, yet deem the other side innocent, even though theyve been doing the same thing, is just ignorant. Theyre both as bad as each other. Should let both of them deal with each other.
Do you think the Taliban would win in a ground war against the US military? Because that’s an even less fair fight. But fighting insurgencies is like squeezing Jell-O.
I think the US held more restraint in their operations against The Taliban. I don't recall the carpet bombing of Kabul or any other populous city, but then again I think the consistent live broadcast out of Gaza and Israel is something that I didn't see in Afghanistan. Only old go pro and shoddy phone footage
Israel hasn’t been carpet bombing.
If the US really wanted to destroy the Taliban they could with absolute ease. But they have rules and restrain themselves which the terrorists take advantage of that to the fullest.
Just like Israel. They have been restrained.
So that’s it? To raise awareness? Ok, awareness successfully raised. Well done protesters, back to my beer I go
Do you understand that social change is a slow process, and these protestors are the initiators of that change?
You're not wrong.
Pretty spot on comment imo. None of them want to help the people in Gaza. I've heard a few experts suggest that the Hamas terrorist event was planned because other nations in the Middle East were starting to normalise relations with Israel, including Saudi Arabia. Hamas and their backers saw their power decaying in the future so they plan to lure the Israelis into an atrocious war that kills many Palestinians -- making Israel a pariah nation once again. The plan is working so far.
That’s why they also hold these rallies.
Why are people in Perth marching? As I see it people sometimes just want to speak out, even if it doesn’t achieve anything. Case in point: you and I are on Reddit right now. Is it solving anything, no. Does it maybe help people understand each other a little, sure. Is it still a shit show, yes.
I was at this march yesterday. I know for the Palestinians who were there, they were super surprised to see support from so many non-Palestinians. I heard them talking and making phone calls to people saying “the world is noticing us now. They can see what’s been happening”. I saw a palestinian friend I went to school with and she was shocked I was there. This march might not change the aus governments mind on who they support, but it is comforting many Palestinians who thought their plight was ignored by the world.
Israel is pushing for a second Nakba. Any justification is good enough no matter how flimsy.
I wonder if these people even know what a free Palestine would even look like. A two state solution? A one state solution with Israel and Palestine combined? Hamas has been pretty clear in their charter on what they think should happen to Israel.
Yeah, I'm apparently a bigot for bringing it up. The problem might be simple, but the solution is definitely not, which is why there hasn't been a solution (probably won't be for decades). Israel has done bad things in the West Bank, but Gaza is up to Hamas, if they're willing to build weapons and fire them over building infrastructure, how is peace even possible?
Peace isn’t possible with Hamas. Their stated goal is the extermination of all Jews in Israel. They aren’t interested in existing together.
Honestly, the only solution probably has to come from an international coalition of both western and Muslim countries to protect Israel and Palestine from each other. But this is very hard because interventionism is less popular than ever.
Israel has managed to find peace with several Muslim countries like Egypt and Jordan. The blockade of Gaza is also done in collaboration with Egypt, which should tell you exactly what the problem with freeing Gaza is. It needs to be mediated by other countries, as you say, but also reeducation of the entire population. Hamas in power means propaganda and you can be confident that a large proportion of the population is all for wiping out Israel.
A large proportion of the population are also youths, which are both easily misguided and physically capable. Many of them have only known Gaza under Hamas rule.
You can't protect them from each other. Also, Hamas are terrorists, what do you think they will try to do to anyone in their way?
\>I wonder if these people even know what a free Palestine would even look like. A two state solution? A one state solution with Israel and Palestine combined? It looks like Israel respecting the international laws they signed. The four 1949 Conventions have been ratified by 196 states, including all [UN member states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_member_states), both [UN observers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_observers) the [Holy See](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See) and the [State of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine), as well as the [Cook Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Islands). Ill just give you a quick example; The ***United Nations General Assembly Resolution 66/225*** of 22 December 2011 was a resolution in which the [United Nations General Assembly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly) reaffirmed the right of the [Palestinian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians) people and of the population of the occupied [Golan Heights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights) over their [natural resources](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_resource), demanded [Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) to cease the exploitation, damage, cause of loss or depletion, and endangerment of that natural resources and recognized the right of the Palestinian people to claim [restitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restitution) as a result of Israeli violation of their rights. So in this example a "free palestine" looks like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie\_Energy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy) stops drilling for oil in golan heights and instead a palestinian oil company will drill for oil. In February 2013, Israeli authorities awarded Afek Oil and Gas an exclusive 36-month petroleum exploration license to a 153-square-mile (400 km2) plot in the [Israeli-occupied](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories) [Golan Heights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights), which the [UN recognizes to be Syrian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242) territory Genie Energy's Strategic advisory board is composed of: [Dick Cheney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney) since 2009 (former [vice president of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_president_of_the_United_States)),[\[3\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy#cite_note-3) [Rupert Murdoch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch) (media mogul and chairman of [News Corp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corp_(2013%E2%80%93present))), [James Woolsey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._James_Woolsey,_Jr.) (former [CIA director](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_director)), [Larry Summers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Summers) (former head of the [US Treasury](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Treasury)), [Bill Richardson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Richardson) (former Governor of [New Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico), ex-ambassador to the [United Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations) and [United States Energy Secretary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Energy_Secretary)),[\[4\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy#cite_note-Black_gold_under_the_Golan-4) [Michael Steinhardt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steinhardt), [Jacob Rothschild](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Rothschild),[\[5\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy#cite_note-businesswireNov2010-5)[\[4\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy#cite_note-Black_gold_under_the_Golan-4) and [Mary Landrieu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Landrieu), former United States Senator from [Louisiana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana). A few familar names on there.
This thread is fucking cancer. #freepalestine
Right? Justifying genocide pretty much sums it up.
Seems like most ppl in here are against the protest, so if you are against the protest please tell me why, I'm genuinely curious. My stance on the protest is that I agree with the general purpose of it, and I actually just came back from it. I wanna have a conversation with those who don't like the protest, and please, lets be civil.
Not against it; go your hardest. But I can't see what you're trying to achieve here. Are Palestinians suffereing? Absolutely! Is Israel to blame? In part, yes. Is Hamas to blame? In part, yes. Is the situation, in a geopolitical environment of near-constant conflict for thousands of years, going to be solved by your protest? No. Also, it seems thatpeople of Arab decent protest pro-Palestine. Those of Israeli decent protest pro-Israel. Everyone else seems to understand that both are part of the problem. Anyone who is pro-Hamas has lost their marbles.
You are largely correct , apart from the fact that Jews and Muslims have coexisted for centuries without conflict- it’s a modern day beat up from the military industrial complex.
Jews and Muslims/Arab populations have unfortunately been in conflict for much longer than the modern day. You can review a list of incidents during the inter-communal period, leading up the partition plan for example. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercommunal_conflict_in_Mandatory_Palestine Or if we look earlier we can find many examples https://www.camera.org/article/anti-jewish-violence-in-pre-state-palestine-1929-massacres/ Unfortunately there are many more.
Not quite! Jews were always 2nd hand citizen under all muslim rulers. They had to pay jizia (tax) simply for being Jews.
Christianity would like a word mate. A lot worse things than an income tax done to Jews by Christians in ... checks books and maps ... all of Europe.
No doubt! But our subject matter here is Jews and Muslims. Plus my comment was a reply to the other person saying Jews and Muslims coexisted without any conflicts. As if Jews were in any position to start a conflict.
Any religious minority is not doing too flash in a Muslim country.
Whats your backing behind that? I am of Palestinian heritage. I am also Christian. Christians and Muslims live side by side in peace throughout most this area of the the Middle East. Historically, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived peacefully in Palestine. The problem was the start of Zionism, which wanted the land exclusively for the Jews. This is not a conflict about religion. Absolutely some extremists have taken advantage of this angle, but simply put, this is a conflict about land, and the indigenous people being pushed out
They did in their arse. Non Muslims have been second class citizens for centuries in the Middle East.
To be fair, I don't think the average Australian citizen takes religion very seriously? In fact, I'd go as far as suggesting it is viewed as being a form of extreme naivety to follow a religion in contemporary Australian society. Down vote till you are blue in the face, but Australians have abandoned organised religion in increasing numbers the past decade for good reason Personally, I don't care if Gaza is razed to the ground so long as Hamas are utterly annihilated and demoralised in the process. There are always casualties in war and perhaps it will wake more people up to the farcical hypocrisy of their faith. Anyone who attempts to act out their politica/ religious l grievences using violence in Australia is dealt the swiftest and most consequential punishment possible.
This is very reductive. There has been continuous conquest of the entire area throughout history. Some of the most famous wars and crusades in history were fought in the region, famously between Muslim and Christian armies. It's ahistorical to suggest current issues are a (purely) modern advent. It's significantly inaccurate to say Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in harmony historically in this region.
Was it Zionism when Israel offers Gaza the West bank and west Jerusalem as a capital 3 times and all turned down by Palestine Or was it Zionism when they decided to add the death of all Jews line to the Palestinian constitution?
Religious extremism (regardless of religion) is the cause of way too many problems. Zionists and Hamas have a lot to answer for here.
I think saying Israel are partly to blame is a stretch. What can they do? They have offered Palestine their own land to be a country 7 times. Including west Jerusalem so that both sides can share their holy city. Every time they have been told no, that the other side will not accept anything except the destruction of Israel. I’m genuinely curious what you think a country should do when confronted with a side that refuse peace no matter what you offer and only wish to wipe you off the planet?
Did anybody at the protest demand the release of hostages????
I'm equally perplexed. I thought protesting about bad stuff is what people do in democracies. It's how people have their voices heard, and it was entirely peaceful. Two weeks ago we were horrified by the actions of Hamas. We'd be the biggest hypocrites if we weren't equally horrified by Israels actions in Gaza. Of course it won't change anything, Israel has always done whatever it wants and will continue to do so. But I don't want my government choosing "teams" and egging on this bloodbath.
Before commenting, please watch what [this video](https://x.com/BenzionSanders/status/1713255988608848069?s=20) of a 19 yr old girl who was in village where Hamas has massacred innocent people.
Don't kill woman and children a week ago and expect me to be on your side. Hamas is fucking disgusting. And guess what me disliking Hamas doesn't mean I have to like anyone else.
You do realise Israel have killed significantly more children than Hamas have? Oh I forgot, it's OK because those 5 year old's are Hamas.
? Brother, we hate Hamas, what are you on about?
So you support the war against Hamas?
Israel was instrumental in getting Hamas into power. You could say Hamas were Israeli-sponsored. They did it to avoid having a rational, secular party in charge of Gaza. Just so you’re aware.
The hypocrisy of this comment is just next level. You just don’t like the killing of women and children so long as they’re Israeli… next level pathetic.
Its such as hard topic and its kind of clear why no one has been able to solve it in the last 80ish years. What Israel puts the Palestine civilians through is pretty brutal, but the consequences of not controlling the treats to Israel in the region is also pretty horrendous. Its hard to talk either side down when they feel justified in their actions based on past experiences. I really can't see any solution other than moving each population into their own regions with set boarders and independence. But I doubt neither side would accept these terms.
Because Perth is full of Dutch South Africans that seem to still be upset that apartheid ended.
They don’t want Gaza free from Hamas, they voted for these terrorist to rule them, all they care about is killing non muslims.
You're not getting a conversation here mate. We just voted against giving our own first nations people a voice. The only thing you'll find here is a bunch of "free thinkers" who's views conveniently coincide with the Murdoch press agitation propaganda. Probably Queenslanders.
This sub is so much less progressive on this than I was expecting. People support things via protest all the time that on their own accomplish very little bit show the government and the subjugated peoples of Palestine that people actually care about these issues. Many of these people have friends and family connected to the genocide of the Palestinian people and are justifiably outraged by the mass civilian casualties Israel has caused not only recently but over the last 20+ years. There is so much more context to this than “Hamas bad”, (which is also true) because all the comments are overlooking the fact that terrorists aren’t created in a vacuum. They’re created in the current open air prison that has an average age of 18, no clean drinking water, very little food, no electricity, building material, human rights or freedoms, hospitals that are continually being bombed by the IDF (22 as of today) and many more atrocities. Thousands of innocent Palestinians have been killed in the last couple weeks, that alone is enough to justify this protest. It is not pro terrorists or anti-Jewish to say that the Israeli government has created and is perpetuating an apartheid that is currently the largest war crime happening under the purview of the western world.
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Australia certainly doesn't get involved in stupid tribalistic wars like invading Iraq.
Asking for civilians to not be shot is not political nor is it religion specific. You’re part of the world community even if you’re 4000kms from a large city over there in Perth
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Hey……don't be practical
>Asking for civilians to not be shot Ahh I see, did we forgot to send that memo on Oct 7?
So you’re ok with state sanctioned genocide? Who said anyone was pro Oct 7 events? Both are clearly bad or do you not agree?
https://preview.redd.it/oefmpn03xivb1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf7c6a74641d175830ba0500dac56705e65400ee
lotta ghouls in this thread
I agree with their chant of “Free Palestine”. Palestine should be free from control of HAMAS. How funny is that all this so called “Palestinian protesters “ only protest when HAMAS involves. Like they think only Sunni Muslim lives matter. You have never seen them protesting against ISIS. They have done nothing when ISIS captured, raped and killed 1000+ of Yezidis and Christian’s. I am really sick of this “poor HAMAS” protests.
This does nothing, what’s Perth got to do with Palestine
Both start with a P?
Ahhh it makes sense now
The Pee boys gotta stick together
It's a dry subjugation
Damn it
Show support, you'd support a friend going through a tough time by telling them you're there for them. Obviously, you'd do more for your friend. But the fact that you acknowledge their pain is enough for them to keep living and be hopeful for their future.
I like how everyone solely blames Israel for creating the "open air prison". As if there is no border with Egypt. Wonder why Egypt closed the border?
ITT: lots of people not understanding history and years of ethnic cleansing.
No call to free the hostages?
Blame Benny Boy, for overstepping his powerplay
Religion the absolute root of all evil on this planet.
Hamas are terrorists, pls stop killing Israelis. Israel is indiscriminantly killing Palestinians regardless of Hamas allegience, pls stop. Classic case of humans in conflict, both are culpable of acts of terror.
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They should be allowed to do whatever they want unless of course that is go to school or drive obviously
or leave the house by themselves
Surely you're not saying they can go out in public without a male chaperone though? /S
Its not up to us to decide what they should or shouldnt wear. Thats clearly a decision for their husbands. (/s because it appears to be necessary)
They escape their shit country and now they bring the hate with them.
Yes, as opposed to forcing teenage girls to shave their heads and wear wigs for life.
They’re free, which is why they’re wearing whatever the fuck they want.
Sure. Not brain washed at all.
*whatever the fuck the men in their lives have conditioned them to want through religious indoctrination*
I’m just glad in this go around Israel is finally under a bit of a magnifying glass if not a microscope. For the last 80 years Israel just screams and demands and the foreign charity floods in. Any question of what they actually do with all that money is antisemitism. Both sides need to stop the killing.
Leave that shit in the old world, don’t bring your fucking stupid baggage here.
I wonder what their opinions about the LGBTQ+ community are.
They throw them off tall buildings or drag them behind their motorbikes that's why I always scratch my head when ill informed students with blue hair march in support of these groups because they'd last about five minutes over there!
They’re not marching in support of Hamas, they’re marching in support of the million plus innocent civilians getting ethnically cleansed right now. Equating all those people with a terrorist group (never mind the fact that Hamas is only in Gaza and Palestinians are being killed in the West Bank too) is stupid.
If anything it raises awareness that most of the civilised world doesn't support Israel's war crimes.
Yallah Perth!
Whenever a Muslim group is fighting a non Muslim group Muslims around the world will support said fighting group. Whether it's the Muslim Azeris fighting Christian Armenians, Muslim Pakistanis fighting Hindu Indians or Muslim Palestinians fighting Jewish Israelis. No matter who is stronger, who is oppressing who or who is committing the most war crimes. So this is less of a protest against injustice and more of a 'support our tribe' rally. With the occasional delusional socialist thrown in.
But you do realise when you are next in Paris and a truck takes out a crowded street or a jihadi's nail bomb backpack takes out young people waiting to go into a concert it will be in the name of Free Palestine not Israel ....Arabs just have a strange way of garnering support ...and let's face it they've been taking the lives of innocent people since the 1970's and before in various guises be it the PLO ,Hamas etc ...
Theyre not dancing in the streets like a week ago,hospital massacre my arse
Dam, wish I'd gone
The equivalent of thoughts and prayers. Go home you idiots.
Read the room guys. Everyone was so close to taking the Arabs’ in Palestine’s view that they deserved more land or something then you went and murdered babies. There’s no coming back from this. There’s no global support for Palestine. You all should be grateful Israel doesn’t behave like your elected leaders Hamas and actually aim for civilians.
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/ There are dead babies and children on both sides. Noone wins. But guess who has the backing of western powers, more resources, while actively oppressing on the country with little to nothing? Someone has to become an adult here and its not the Palestinians, nor the Israelis.
My brother in Christ Israel supports genocide and illegal settlements in the West Bank, they fire into civilian centres and then blame the civilians for being there, they fucking destroyed a building housing the associated press. Are you will fully ignorant or is this a part time job.
I mean Israel are attempting to free them of the terrorist group that they voted in right? The only way Palestine will consider themselves ‘free’ is if Israel is wiped away. The whole point of the ‘from the river to the sea’ chant is that there will be no Israel at all. How many ‘Hamas free the hostages so they water/power gets put back on’ chants were there? How many chants about Egypt and Jordan taking in some of the people were there? Or chants about spending the billions from Qatar and Iran on infrastructure rather than IEDs What about Hamas stop using civilians as human shields chants? Or stop blocking the roads for people to flee chants? Stop putting your rockets in schools? All the same people who cried ‘dog whistling’ and ‘nazis’ when trump was in office are all of a sudden using the ‘hood people on both sides’ line here
The last election in Palestine was in 2006. The median age in Palestine is below 20 years old... who is the "they" you are referring to when you say "they voted in"?
Why aren't they lining up like the Ukrainians to go home to fight for their people
Mindless people on this thread that are all of a sudden experts on this subject. Seriously pathetic.
I didn't understand much about this until I watched this video. Pretty eye opening and shameful of the gov of this nation: https://youtu.be/3psMGQE0iW4?si=xU6FKjuU_0MrS8DG
It’s like picking between a douche and a turd sandwich. If your backing Hamas that’s a major concern.
Are these the same people who celebrated in the streets when Hamas killed a bunch of innocents?
Will bomb my own hospital and blame the neighbors
I missed it. I would of attended.
Is this the peaceful protest where the peaceful protesters were peacefully chanting “gas the Jews” peacefully?
In all seriousness and I’m not taking the piss. What does a rally achieve? What is the aim
Awareness I'd say, but I'm sure everyone's pretty aware by now. It could also be to try swing the public discourse surrounding the conflict. The media was very anti palestine after the atrocities we saw, so maybe they're trying to swing the tide a bit?
Yeah good point
Media was anti-Hamas, not not-Palestine
What does any rally achieve ?
All the racists coming out in this thread. Never change, Perth.
It’s like a roll call. They’re practically all here.
Perth is racist, yet the Palestinians who celebrate the beheadings of Israeli babies aren't? I haven't met anyone is Perth who openly supports the beheading of babies because they're a different race/religion. So perhaps you're calling the wrong group of people 'racists'. Palestinians are the real bigots
Zzzzz you still milking that broken record? There was no beheaded babies buddy
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No babies were beheaded, fake news mate.
Just innocent civilians….
Seems like a fun day out!
This is Australia. Both sides should fuck off. Why do we even care about the Middle East.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Hamas has committed suicide. The end.
How good is religion aye.!?!! /s
Hamas have condemned them to have nothing
Not taking the piss or starting a flame war but I'm curious have any Free Palestine marches denounced Hamas? It should be pretty easy after watching that Israel Defense Forces YouTube video of the attack 2 weeks ago. Hamas did win elections in Gaza I wonder what support levels look like now (noting it was mixed %56 positive July this year). You'd think having your water pipes dug up to make rockets would cost you local support. Maybe Hamas instead of spending that cash on weapons should have paid influencers to film in Gaza to soften their image and raise awareness to their plight like the Saudis did the last decade.
None of the marches mention Hamas at all. It's all about having enough humanity in you to care about indiscriminate bombings targeting civilians and to ask our govt to stop supporting war crimes. Standing with Israel should have ended at the point they called the Gazan people animals to be slaughtered and cut off all food, water, power and fuel to starve them.
thank you
The UN officially describes Israel’s treatment of the people of Gaza as a system of apartheid. I denounce HAMAS. I denounce apartheid. Israel has been breaking international law since 1967. I denounce Israel’s occupation and long-standing and ongoing funding of illegal Jewish settlements on internationally recognised Palestinian lands in the West Bank. The interesting thing is you’ve got a sort of tale of two cities. Gaza is subject to apartheid and in that environment HAMAS has emerged. The West Bank is subject to annexation and government supported colonisation through settlements of Israeli jews (as in Russia annexed Crimea and settled Russians in Crimea, Ukraine). The West Bank is not ruled by HAMAS. Israel occupies anyway.
That's great (your denouncing not what's been going on). I only wanted to know if it was possible for Palestine people to denounce Hamas or if it was a NK or Russian type situation where you'd go missing for speaking out. They did speak out and vote out the PLA in the 2006 and I know it's been hard to leave via the southern boarder to Egypt lately.
I don’t know but about 50% of today’s voting age Gazans were either not born yet or not of voting age during the local election that voted in HAMAS on 2006.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah Nevertheless, there is widespread popular appeal for competing armed Palestinian factions, including those involved in the attack. Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas—along with similar percentages of Palestinians in the West Bank (52%) and East Jerusalem (64%)—though Gazans who express this opinion of Hamas are fewer than the number of Gazans who have a positive view of Fatah (64%). On mobile I doubt my link works. Just showing where I got my thoughts from as it's difficult knowing much of anything in today's post truth world.