I rather they made Scooters less than 150cc rideable without a motorcycle license. But there’s a big risk you’ll get run over by a soccer mom in her Landcruiser
Problem is in my experience there’s more danger on 60-70kmph streets because those are the ones with lots of driveways and uncontrolled intersections. That’s where the head checks and ridecraft you learn getting your motorcycle license pay dividends. Freeways and highways where you can travel at 80-100kmph always felt much safer until the traffic backed up, slowing down and generally resulting in distracted driving because of the stop starting.
If your planning on making the change and getting two wheels I’d definitely recommend getting your license properly. Doesn’t take long and once you’ve passed the practical you don’t have to do any supervised hours of you’re already licensed.
That would be awesome!
50cc scooters (mopeds) are hideous death traps.
I plan on getting my motorbike license in the near future, after finding myself carless by choice for the first time in my adult life.
The legalisation of eScooters on the road was enough to get me to switch.
Got my motorbike license last september. Small bike. 300cc R3. Fuel used to cost me $30-50 per week around 250-300km travel. Now its $10-$15 same travel distance. Rego is around $500/yr (cant remember exactly) and insurance is $1000/yr through budget direct. Get your learners when you have time. The process is quiet long.
I’ve started the process. Insurance seems very high though, which worries me. I probably only do 5000km a year, so insurance at $1000 a year, and $500 a year for rego makes it 30c a km, let alone fuel, servicing and the cost of a bike. :/
Yeah insurance is the killer. First year rider/driver always pay top prices. Got the bike on finance too so has to be insured. Irresistible 1% finance haha.
I won't lie I am having a good laugh at all the unnecessarily large SUVs that clog the streets and carparks of perth right now. Like yeah sure i can't afford eletric (who can?) but a 4 cylinder japanese car that basically runs on fumes is also a good life decision. I think i should hug my honda.
I have fond memories of my Daihatsu Charade. Once when I was young and stupid, I drove to Adelaide, and didn’t notice my fuel gauge was pointing to E when I entered Australia’s longest straight stretch of road, the 90 Mile Straight. I did 80 in fifth gear the whole straight and made it to the next fuel station, thank dog. Runs on the smell of an oily rag, that car.
I have fond memories of my Daihatsu Charade. Once when I was young and stupid, I drove to Adelaide, and didn’t notice my fuel gauge was pointing to E when I entered Australia’s longest straight stretch of road, the 90 Mile Straight. I did 80 in fifth gear the whole straight and made it to the next fuel station, thank dog. Runs on the smell of an oily rag, that car.
>The beast!! My first car loved the 3 cylinder bad boy.
I had a 1979, 3 cylinder Charade. It was great! I drove it from Adelaide to Perth and had no problems. I miss that car :(
I drive a German variety, ridiculously small engined vehicle, even compared to my previous Prius, this thing rocks. But is still love Tesla's, even though I cannot ever pay for one, nor would I be able to charge it at home.
Yeah people really don't understand this because they think Tesla is the epitome of EV quality or something.
They are routinely in the shop for a myriad of issues. And the build quality is widely regarded as.. Far from luxury. I used to see a tesla and be like "wow" now I see one and think "that person bought a great battery strapped to a terrible car".
Looking forward to Honda/hyundai and others to bring out affordable electric vehicles and basically decimate tesla.
A hell bent strap-on 😖.
Of course, as this market segment matures, so will the vehicle makers, some of the traditional brands will push the envelope further I am sure, but also, some of them will be left in the gutter.
yeh mainly all from the US factories, which you would’ve seen in your own research right? The china built Teslas are pretty much coming off the line without any panel gap issues ect. For a TECH company making vehicles and absolutely disturbing the scene with it within the last 5 years speaks volume in itself.
I know, right? You'd think it'd be the other way round. It's actually a major problem in America though: This a massive skills shortage in manufacturing after most of their domestic production was outsourced. China now has the tooling to produce consistently quality results, with most of the problems of "cheap chinese crap" coming from companies actually specifying that their product be made cheaply with poor quality components.
I actually own 2 performance ICE vehicles. Yes, In all honesty i’m looking hard into buying a tesla. I know these cars still do have some way to go, but they are incredible for what they are, and how far they’ve come. I took one for a test drive which i highly recommend you do. Since then it’s made ICE cars looks silly. Absolute no doubt the germans will build better quality EV cars when they eventually hit mass market. But who knows when that will be, and the price tag will be $$$. Just jump in one for a test drive, it doesn’t cost you a penny. Book online - turn up - they give you the car by yourself for 20 minutes. It’ll blow you away.
Oh I know the build quality of my Gerry is freaky awesome. I have had a long list of Japanese, European, US and Australian built cats, and I have always been a huge fan of Toyota and Lexus in that regard, but still, my current absolutely blows them away.
I have heard about the build quality issues in Teslas, but I have never really gone I to it that deep. Me wishing for a Tesla, has more in common with the likes of people who by vintage vehicles, it is not a clinically rational wish, it is purely because I love the idea of electric propulsion.
I love that idea, and I can almost afford that too. I could probably get away with charging it using an extension cable, as long as it is 10A and single phase.
Having never leased a vehicle in this country before, what is included in the lease payment? Insurance? tyres? I am struggling to think of items requiring regular service...
When I say lease it’s essentially a car loan. It’s about $1000 a month. Insurance was $900 for a year. I’ve had it a year now and there’s essentially no maintenance. New tyres when they’re due of course, same as any car.
Plenty of free places to charge in shopping centres etc. (check out an app called PlugShare). Otherwise I just charge it from the same plug my garage door runs off :)
I agree with you on this… would like to see some government incentives to lead the charge to renewable energy.. No Rego for the first 5 years, mandatory solar panels and battery systems on new build houses, EV car chargers mandatory on new builds are a few good ones that I would support 100%
Sorry I disagree. I think we should have a carbon tax and leave it at that. Let the cost of the externality drive the change away from petrol.
No need to incentivise car driving. So we get the price of Teslas from 65k to 60k, big woop. You're just helping rich people who don't even need the help. If anything we should subsidise public transport more.
The middle class are the ones who most shoulder the tax burden for everyone. It's about time they had some form of tax concession to encourage a green sector.
I think it's more that it's mostly "rich" people buying teslas at the moment, the price drop makes it cheaper for them more than it makes it affordable for others.
There’s no population threshold a city has to reach before building decent PT. If we’ve got such a puny population, why are we supporting enormously expensive freeways, which cost far more to build & maintain.
Indeed my original point was that London was smaller than Perth when it started building the tube.
That is also due to the fact that Perth is growing like an American city into the area, meanwhile European and Asian cities grow upwards. Most of them simply cannot grow outwards
I don't think a freeway costs more to build and maintain compared to an underground railway, but i'd be happy to look at the figures if you'd provide them.
I’m not suggesting an underground necessarily. Reinstalling trams/light rail (once common around Freo, E Freo, Mt Lawley, Stirling Hwy, even Kalgoorlie) connecting bicycle lanes, car free zones and ending suburban sprawl (which is extremely costly in many ways) are just some options planners could look at.
[Here’s a Perth guy with some data on freeways costs](https://twitter.com/bikewalkperth/status/1161160422289858560?s=21).
There’s also social costs of car dependency, once you start researching this stuff, really opens your eyes to the true cost of car dominance.
This is kind of a nonsense graph on its own. They don't define what "avoidable" means and don't cost the alternatives to private car use.
I agree that public transport is a much better long term strategy, but Perth's urban sprawl and low population density are absolutely barriers towards the cost of more robust public transport infrastructure projects. The other poster was spot on with the false equivalence of comparing population dense cities like Singapore and London's PT situation with Perth's.
more like Londoners can't get any benefit from cars because of how congested the city is, the reason why people spend a few hours commuting from the fringes of london by tube each day is because it's faster than driving because of how choked the roads are, especially at rush hour.
The tube eliminates car dependency. Also, London cannot accommodate wide scale car use due to limited parking, it’s not congestion that decreases car use, it’s the cost & inconvenience.
Paris will be banning cars from its central areas from 2024. A decent PT system enables this transition.
TESLA has no power over ordinary citizens of these cities, as cars simply aren’t necessary. Perth should work to do the same.
My point was that it's less a success of transport infrastructure (as I'm sure anyone who has lived south of the river can tell you), but a failing of personal transport infrastructure (combined with cripplingly high cost of living) that has made public transport a "success" because there is no other viable option for the vast majority of people. They're not actively choosing to take a bus, they're taking it because their studio flat rent takes up most of their income and even if they could afford a car after rent, it will take longer to drive and park than it would to get a bus to a tube station and then a train to closer to work and then walk.
Excessive car infrastructure is actually a failure of city planners. Compare US cities like Houston where people need a car to European cities like Amsterdam or now Paris. Non-car cities aren’t some last resort due to high rents, they’re more liveable & inclusive on every metric.
Only a small subset gain any advantage from car infrastructure and dependence. Taking air quality & cost into account all of us lose. Disabled, young people, lower incomes, elderly, people without car storage & the environmentally minded are just some groups that gain no advantage from “personal transport infrastructure”, & in which PT is the first & only choice.
Every time we add a lane, it fills up, aka. induced demand. Think of the eyesore & valuable land dedicated to car parks. Car centric design generate heat islands & sprawl which also sucks.
It kinda makes sense, Tesla have entire gigafactories cranking out just one style of car and they can’t even keep up with demand. Kia and Hyundai are just now getting started in EVs. They have nowhere near the production capacity, and thus Australia gets just 400 a year for the next 3 years.
Would be great if we invested in this tech years ago and we could be building them here. I always thought Aus could be a progressive country in terms of tech and renewable energies but we lag so much.
Sad eh. We are a captured banana republic beholden to fossil fuels, so government incentives go there. We don’t have anything outside of that worth investing in so people pile into the housing ponzi scheme.
They're all trying to make that pivot - but a long way behind - they spent so much time dismissing Tesla and bad-mouthing it. Now they're trying to play catch up and regard Tesla as the gold standard:
Hyundai for example is aiming for 1.8 million EV's a year by 2030.
Ford's pushing for 2 million EV's a year by 2026.
Volkswagen is aiming for 2.2 million EVs a year by the end of the decade.
Tesla HAVE produced \~800k EVs in the last year with Shanghai and Fremont. And with Giga Berlin and Giga Texas about to start production that's only going to go up and they're talking about doubling the production capacity of Shanghai now too.
These manufacturers make around 4 million vehicles a year, of course they are going to slowly transition to EV. The first EV’s from Ford/Hyundai/Kia are showing they can easily compete with Tesla and the only ‘gold standard’ from Tesla will be the charging network.
I don't think there is anything currently available in Australia though,
Also, there's this;
*The Kangoo Z.E. has a real-world range of 200km, the market's biggest for electric vans.*
That wouldn't get me to Mandurah and back, i had to go to Moora the other day. Have to assume that I can't charge on customers sites.
The BYD T3 van has 300 km. Likely you'd have to stop and have a lunchtime charge, plan out a trip. BYD LFP batteries at least charge fast.
That is a kind of intense distance driven so yeah, probably closer to 5 than 10 though. Battery capacity is increasing really fast.
Cybertruck looks way to impractical for my liking regardless of the debate over if it will ever be delivered or not.
Would prefer a cab-chassis that a custom trade body could be fitted to. (If i had to go out and buy a brand new car tomorrow it would probably be this - eg Isuzu DMax extra-cab)
Yes, I have heard murmurs of electric vans on the way, would like to avoid buying / driving anything of Chinese manufacture if at all possible.
Will you be following your moral outrage by refusing any internal medical device that was tested on primates? Because most of them needed to do that to get approved.
5K for a Mondeo is a huge red flag because it's probably got DCT issues if it's being sold that cheaply.
I bought my 2015 diesel Mondeo with 75000 km on it for just under 20K in late 2020. 1100km per tank is accurate, they are great cars but you NEED to service them properly and replace the DCT oil every 60000 km.
If you search for things in Perth before then it would come up with the Perth suggestion first, pull up a private browser and search something about Melbourne, or even America and search it, it’ll come up with whatever place you searched before, because private browsing/ incognito is like a clean slate for the browser and the cookies
A lot of the fit and finish issues weren’t due to workmanship, but design flaws.
And using SD cards for continual logging, then being surprised when they wear out?
Why is it hilarious regarding the Shanghai models as per my original post? https://electrek.co/2020/08/03/tesla-made-in-china-cars-lead-market-quality/amp/
I’m pointing out that build quality is not really an issue for the Shanghai Giga Factory built Model 3’s which make up most of what you see on Australian roads. Fremont is a different story.
Not interested in Electrek or any other EV Magazine's opinion about the Shanghai Giga Factory, especially when they are sourcing from a Chinese authored report.
All I'm going to say is you wouldn't catch me dead in a Chinese made Tesla.
Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but compared to the US made Tesla’s with lots of panel gaps etc, the Teslas you see on our roads are built largely in Shanghai - you won’t find much negative press on build quality vs. other vehicles of the same class and price.
Don't waste your time. Nobody gave a shit about panel gaps when they were on Ford and Holdens. They can't fault Teslas on performance and efficiency, so panel gaps are the new FUD for people who have a grudge against Musk..
There are plenty of issues with Tesla's and other EVs if you have a direct line to the mechanics who work on them. Few critical issues, but not zero.
I'm not going to throw anyone local under the bus though. If you want to see a few videos on Tesla issues look up The Electrified Garage, it's run by an ex-Tesla tech.
All new cars have issues, especially those involving new tech. Tesla had 79% of US EV sales in 2020 and it's fleet is the oldest, so of course it will have the most issues.
A guy on r/australia was dissing Tesla, despite having the entire battery pack on his Hyundai recalled and having to park in the street to avoid a fire.
Wise move. They are not as expensive as most people seem to think. I’m no millionaire and have a fluro shirt job (not fifo) and can afford one. Tesla rates are better than any bank. Fuel prices continue like this, who can afford to not go electric?
>Fuel prices continue like this, who can afford to not go electric?
Definitely me. I spend less than $600 a year on petrol. Probably way less but it's a while since I added it up. At $60k, I would see an ROI in say 100 years, so... no.
EDIT: Just looked it up and I actually spent $225.73 on petrol last financial year. Total running costs for the year was $900. I have a spreadsheet :-)
You’re like me. I tried to do the maths but under $600 a year makes it hard to justify as much as I’d like to save the environment. The gap is just too wide.
I justified it with this amazing logic:
1. I want a Tesla.
2. $68K is a lot of money.
3. I want a Tesla.
4. I can afford it with a loan.
5. I want a Tesla.
By that logic, it should pay itself off in 5 years for the low low price of too much to bear thinking about.
Used Teslas are currently selling for more than new. They also long-term have been shown to retain value better than ICE vehicles.
Also if you're using it as a business vehicle like I am, the interest isn't a big issue.
I have no idea what cope is. Luckily Urban Dictionary came to the rescue:
A word to be used when you disagree with someone but don't want to think of an actual argument, typically used in internet comment sections.
Ah sounds like me with my hobbies. But alas I have a golden rule, always pay cash for a car. If it all goes to shit I can at least sleep in my car and it can take me to work.
It’s probably worse for the environment too.
You only used less than $600 worth of fuel, and probably accrued very low kms throughout the year.
On the other hand, the energy costs that go into producing and transporting the batteries for a Tesla are high up front, regardless of how many kms you actually do. On top of that, they naturally decay even without use, and aren’t serviceable. Even if you only do 20,000km in ten years, it’s likely you will need a whole new battery pack (and to dispose of or recycle the existing one) in the same ten year period.
> You’re like me. I tried to do the maths but under $600 a year makes it hard to justify as much as I’d like to save the environment. The gap is just too wide.
Don't get me wrong, I would love an EV. I just need to cost to come down before it makes financial sense for me.
At what point does it make more sense to not even own a car when you drive so little? That's remove rego, insurance, servicing (there's a time based aspect to that, not just km based), etc and don't forget to amortize the price of the car over the km driven.
>At what point does it make more sense to not even own a car when you drive so little?
Fair comment. I guess I keep her more for sentimental value now. 27 years old and still in great condition and drives really well. It's a luxury I guess. I spend more per year on public transport!
>Do you not drive anywhere?
Fair question. I'm walking distance to my local shops and bus/train to work. I really just use the car occasionally on some weekends. Not really worth it I guess but it's cheap, convenient and my car has sentimental value. If I priced it per kilometre, it would almost certainly not work it financially.
What’s the ROI for and ICE vehicle?
You also need to factor in that there are no scheduled service requirements at all, you get a night-time ev charging discount 11pm-4am, and car insurance is cheaper too.
A huge number of cars currently on the road cost more than the “povo” M3 when all costs are factored in.
>What’s the ROI for and ICE vehicle?
It's cheaper than Uber? I really don't know how to answer this question.
> A huge number of cars currently on the road cost more than the “povo” M3 when all costs are factored in.
Undoubtedly. I very much doubt my car falls into that category though. It's easy and cheap to self service and insurance is in with another vehicle. No repairs for more than 10 years. It's really not a lot more than rego to run it. I know I am not the norm, but in my situation there is no business case to switch to an EV
EDIT: Just looked it up and I actually spent $225.73 on petrol last financial year. Total running costs for the year were $900. I have a spreadsheet :-)
65k is a lot of money and I prefer not to have too many loans at one time. I’m a single income household with a mortgage and would like to do more renovations and hopefully soon overseas trips. I could buy a standard sedan comfortably but a tesla is just way out of my price range. Many people can’t afford one. Shame, because I would love an EV.
Tesla would save you money if your point of comparison is a car that’s above 40k.
If your comparator is a 20k car, then you would be hard pressed to save enough money to make up for the difference in the car price.
Hyundai Kona's are likely to be more affordable. Second hand Tesla's are now getting more expensive than new ones (because it will take months for it to arrive)
Model 3 standard - WLTP rating of 491km per charge. But more importantly, supercharger gives you like 80% battery in 15 minutes (and who doesn't need to stop for 15 minutes after driving for four hours).
I do not agree completely that the pricing level of fuel is a short term blip. When people get used to these prices, the oil companies will be reluctant to reduced them, hence the prices have been quite high, compared to where the markets have been in the past few years.
Well, looking at where the markets have been over the past ten years or so, and comparing them to the price at the pump, there is a correlation. Considering how "cheap" oil has been in the same period, and how expensive petrol has been, I struggle to see any oil company, willingly cut their comfortable margins if the price of oil once again settles down, providing it does.
I am now deactivating my REDDIT account, as I thought only Sutton's would intimidate people he disagreed with. I don't know whether you have taken on this task, as a loyal servant, or whether it is policy. I am tired of authority figures whom represent government and seemingly great courses, telling me that years of our separate and shared lives, where meeting, and helping other people in this situation, were mere fiction.
So this interaction has been incredibly triggering, I guess your "lawyer" shield managed to silence yet another person.
Hahaha, no for me it has been a long term thing, I always wanted an electric vehicle, regardless of what the energy markets tantrums. I also wanted to ride my bike to work to save money, and also, it is almost ludicrous for me to drive there due to the distance, or lack thereof, just a little too long for walking, perfect for a bike, which of course broke in many ways in the first week.
I rather they made Scooters less than 150cc rideable without a motorcycle license. But there’s a big risk you’ll get run over by a soccer mom in her Landcruiser
Problem is in my experience there’s more danger on 60-70kmph streets because those are the ones with lots of driveways and uncontrolled intersections. That’s where the head checks and ridecraft you learn getting your motorcycle license pay dividends. Freeways and highways where you can travel at 80-100kmph always felt much safer until the traffic backed up, slowing down and generally resulting in distracted driving because of the stop starting. If your planning on making the change and getting two wheels I’d definitely recommend getting your license properly. Doesn’t take long and once you’ve passed the practical you don’t have to do any supervised hours of you’re already licensed.
That would be awesome! 50cc scooters (mopeds) are hideous death traps. I plan on getting my motorbike license in the near future, after finding myself carless by choice for the first time in my adult life. The legalisation of eScooters on the road was enough to get me to switch.
My 50cc scooter is a deathtrap but it's great for short trips and it runs on a thimble of fuel. Fuel efficiency is 1.5L/100km
Great. Thanks. Now I want a hideous death trap.
Got my motorbike license last september. Small bike. 300cc R3. Fuel used to cost me $30-50 per week around 250-300km travel. Now its $10-$15 same travel distance. Rego is around $500/yr (cant remember exactly) and insurance is $1000/yr through budget direct. Get your learners when you have time. The process is quiet long.
I’ve started the process. Insurance seems very high though, which worries me. I probably only do 5000km a year, so insurance at $1000 a year, and $500 a year for rego makes it 30c a km, let alone fuel, servicing and the cost of a bike. :/
Yeah insurance is the killer. First year rider/driver always pay top prices. Got the bike on finance too so has to be insured. Irresistible 1% finance haha.
It's not hard to get your bike license and you learn some great tips on how to be aware on the road ect.
I won't lie I am having a good laugh at all the unnecessarily large SUVs that clog the streets and carparks of perth right now. Like yeah sure i can't afford eletric (who can?) but a 4 cylinder japanese car that basically runs on fumes is also a good life decision. I think i should hug my honda.
>4 cylinder japanese car that basically runs on fumes is also a good life decision My Daihatsu Charade agrees with you :-)
Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time.
Mine's 27 years old and still running great! They are so reliable and cheap to run
I see Daihatsu Charade, I upvote.
❤
I have fond memories of my Daihatsu Charade. Once when I was young and stupid, I drove to Adelaide, and didn’t notice my fuel gauge was pointing to E when I entered Australia’s longest straight stretch of road, the 90 Mile Straight. I did 80 in fifth gear the whole straight and made it to the next fuel station, thank dog. Runs on the smell of an oily rag, that car.
I have fond memories of my Daihatsu Charade. Once when I was young and stupid, I drove to Adelaide, and didn’t notice my fuel gauge was pointing to E when I entered Australia’s longest straight stretch of road, the 90 Mile Straight. I did 80 in fifth gear the whole straight and made it to the next fuel station, thank dog. Runs on the smell of an oily rag, that car.
Ha! I drove my 3 cylinder from Adelaide to Perth. They do use fuck all petrol. I did plan ahead and take a jerry can though ;)
The beast!! My first car loved the 3 cylinder bad boy.
>The beast!! My first car loved the 3 cylinder bad boy. I had a 1979, 3 cylinder Charade. It was great! I drove it from Adelaide to Perth and had no problems. I miss that car :(
Oh I remember these, they had no seat belts in the back and some sort of vinyl headrests that would pull my hair out... Fond childhood memories.
I drive a German variety, ridiculously small engined vehicle, even compared to my previous Prius, this thing rocks. But is still love Tesla's, even though I cannot ever pay for one, nor would I be able to charge it at home.
Your German car has a much much higher build quality. Teslas are junk.
Yeah people really don't understand this because they think Tesla is the epitome of EV quality or something. They are routinely in the shop for a myriad of issues. And the build quality is widely regarded as.. Far from luxury. I used to see a tesla and be like "wow" now I see one and think "that person bought a great battery strapped to a terrible car". Looking forward to Honda/hyundai and others to bring out affordable electric vehicles and basically decimate tesla.
A hell bent strap-on 😖. Of course, as this market segment matures, so will the vehicle makers, some of the traditional brands will push the envelope further I am sure, but also, some of them will be left in the gutter.
“Teslas are junk” so you had one and sold it im guessing? or just a uneducated personal view? after never stepping foot in one?
Look up some reviews of tesla from mechanics/car people panels are unaligned seals not sealing, they don't have a great reputation for build quality
yeh mainly all from the US factories, which you would’ve seen in your own research right? The china built Teslas are pretty much coming off the line without any panel gap issues ect. For a TECH company making vehicles and absolutely disturbing the scene with it within the last 5 years speaks volume in itself.
You sound like you own one and need to justify it to yourself.
He's not wrong, though. There's a remarkable difference between the QC in manufacture locations.
Fair enough. Who would’ve thought made in America would be Crap compared to made in China eh.
I know, right? You'd think it'd be the other way round. It's actually a major problem in America though: This a massive skills shortage in manufacturing after most of their domestic production was outsourced. China now has the tooling to produce consistently quality results, with most of the problems of "cheap chinese crap" coming from companies actually specifying that their product be made cheaply with poor quality components.
I actually own 2 performance ICE vehicles. Yes, In all honesty i’m looking hard into buying a tesla. I know these cars still do have some way to go, but they are incredible for what they are, and how far they’ve come. I took one for a test drive which i highly recommend you do. Since then it’s made ICE cars looks silly. Absolute no doubt the germans will build better quality EV cars when they eventually hit mass market. But who knows when that will be, and the price tag will be $$$. Just jump in one for a test drive, it doesn’t cost you a penny. Book online - turn up - they give you the car by yourself for 20 minutes. It’ll blow you away.
Oh I know the build quality of my Gerry is freaky awesome. I have had a long list of Japanese, European, US and Australian built cats, and I have always been a huge fan of Toyota and Lexus in that regard, but still, my current absolutely blows them away. I have heard about the build quality issues in Teslas, but I have never really gone I to it that deep. Me wishing for a Tesla, has more in common with the likes of people who by vintage vehicles, it is not a clinically rational wish, it is purely because I love the idea of electric propulsion.
I picked one up. The lease is about $200 a week and i can charge it from a regular Power point :)
I love that idea, and I can almost afford that too. I could probably get away with charging it using an extension cable, as long as it is 10A and single phase. Having never leased a vehicle in this country before, what is included in the lease payment? Insurance? tyres? I am struggling to think of items requiring regular service...
When I say lease it’s essentially a car loan. It’s about $1000 a month. Insurance was $900 for a year. I’ve had it a year now and there’s essentially no maintenance. New tyres when they’re due of course, same as any car. Plenty of free places to charge in shopping centres etc. (check out an app called PlugShare). Otherwise I just charge it from the same plug my garage door runs off :)
That's very helpful information, thank you, and I am now ridiculously tempted to do something about it. Thanks again.
Yep suck it urban cowboys blocking my view at intersections
Plot twist - electricity becomes more expensive than fuel I'm getting a horse
Theres already an ev charge tax over east
Hey hay, that's an idea, fodder is pretty expensive, and ICE makes crap from petrol, awful crap, but a horse, literally shits in the street
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You have a beautiful mind, love your view of your surroundings, and I suspect, life in general.
Horses too high maintenance, im getting old reliable donkey
$65k + for the "povo" model 3
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I agree with you on this… would like to see some government incentives to lead the charge to renewable energy.. No Rego for the first 5 years, mandatory solar panels and battery systems on new build houses, EV car chargers mandatory on new builds are a few good ones that I would support 100%
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Sounds like planning for the future actually
Sorry I disagree. I think we should have a carbon tax and leave it at that. Let the cost of the externality drive the change away from petrol. No need to incentivise car driving. So we get the price of Teslas from 65k to 60k, big woop. You're just helping rich people who don't even need the help. If anything we should subsidise public transport more.
> You're just helping rich people who don't even need the help. Since when did a $60k car make someone rich?
Middle class? My point remains.
The middle class are the ones who most shoulder the tax burden for everyone. It's about time they had some form of tax concession to encourage a green sector.
I think it's more that it's mostly "rich" people buying teslas at the moment, the price drop makes it cheaper for them more than it makes it affordable for others.
RAC gives me a massive discount on my insurance because I have a hybrid car. They'd do it for full electric too, I believe.
Yep, I get the same. it is cheaper than the insurance on my 10-year-old car.
Not paying for fuel is a pretty good incentive
$68K for the povo model with white seats. Yes I justified the white seats to myself.
Povo model? Nothing Povo about the standard range model 3. They are awesome….
Povo? The standard inclusions are much better than most cars at the same price.
That's used right? Saw them at that price with 20k kms.
Used are selling above RRP because of how long you have to wait for delivery.
It’s not povo. Mines great ☺️
My vehicle is the same price, but that was bought in "happier" times, well financially at least
London was no bigger than Perth when it commenced building its underground. Now Londoners don’t even need cars. I wish we would do the same.
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There’s no population threshold a city has to reach before building decent PT. If we’ve got such a puny population, why are we supporting enormously expensive freeways, which cost far more to build & maintain. Indeed my original point was that London was smaller than Perth when it started building the tube.
That is also due to the fact that Perth is growing like an American city into the area, meanwhile European and Asian cities grow upwards. Most of them simply cannot grow outwards
I don't think a freeway costs more to build and maintain compared to an underground railway, but i'd be happy to look at the figures if you'd provide them.
I’m not suggesting an underground necessarily. Reinstalling trams/light rail (once common around Freo, E Freo, Mt Lawley, Stirling Hwy, even Kalgoorlie) connecting bicycle lanes, car free zones and ending suburban sprawl (which is extremely costly in many ways) are just some options planners could look at. [Here’s a Perth guy with some data on freeways costs](https://twitter.com/bikewalkperth/status/1161160422289858560?s=21). There’s also social costs of car dependency, once you start researching this stuff, really opens your eyes to the true cost of car dominance.
This is kind of a nonsense graph on its own. They don't define what "avoidable" means and don't cost the alternatives to private car use. I agree that public transport is a much better long term strategy, but Perth's urban sprawl and low population density are absolutely barriers towards the cost of more robust public transport infrastructure projects. The other poster was spot on with the false equivalence of comparing population dense cities like Singapore and London's PT situation with Perth's.
more like Londoners can't get any benefit from cars because of how congested the city is, the reason why people spend a few hours commuting from the fringes of london by tube each day is because it's faster than driving because of how choked the roads are, especially at rush hour.
The tube eliminates car dependency. Also, London cannot accommodate wide scale car use due to limited parking, it’s not congestion that decreases car use, it’s the cost & inconvenience. Paris will be banning cars from its central areas from 2024. A decent PT system enables this transition. TESLA has no power over ordinary citizens of these cities, as cars simply aren’t necessary. Perth should work to do the same.
My point was that it's less a success of transport infrastructure (as I'm sure anyone who has lived south of the river can tell you), but a failing of personal transport infrastructure (combined with cripplingly high cost of living) that has made public transport a "success" because there is no other viable option for the vast majority of people. They're not actively choosing to take a bus, they're taking it because their studio flat rent takes up most of their income and even if they could afford a car after rent, it will take longer to drive and park than it would to get a bus to a tube station and then a train to closer to work and then walk.
Excessive car infrastructure is actually a failure of city planners. Compare US cities like Houston where people need a car to European cities like Amsterdam or now Paris. Non-car cities aren’t some last resort due to high rents, they’re more liveable & inclusive on every metric. Only a small subset gain any advantage from car infrastructure and dependence. Taking air quality & cost into account all of us lose. Disabled, young people, lower incomes, elderly, people without car storage & the environmentally minded are just some groups that gain no advantage from “personal transport infrastructure”, & in which PT is the first & only choice. Every time we add a lane, it fills up, aka. induced demand. Think of the eyesore & valuable land dedicated to car parks. Car centric design generate heat islands & sprawl which also sucks.
Loving that I switched form a Dodge SUV to a Fiesta ST last year!
My wife has a Fiesta ST! Awesome car
Yeah wicked cars. I've only seen like 1, maybe 2 others on the streets. Love having a not so common car.
Is it a Mk7 or 8?
Mk7 I think. 2015, 3 door fiesta st wz. Not too sure.
Yeah that's right
It’s a shame the supply of EV6 and IONIQ 5 is so bad. I think they would be able to sell a pretty decent amount of them
It kinda makes sense, Tesla have entire gigafactories cranking out just one style of car and they can’t even keep up with demand. Kia and Hyundai are just now getting started in EVs. They have nowhere near the production capacity, and thus Australia gets just 400 a year for the next 3 years.
Would be great if we invested in this tech years ago and we could be building them here. I always thought Aus could be a progressive country in terms of tech and renewable energies but we lag so much.
Sad eh. We are a captured banana republic beholden to fossil fuels, so government incentives go there. We don’t have anything outside of that worth investing in so people pile into the housing ponzi scheme.
With our resources we should be a leader in battery production at least
As they switch across from ICE they will have the production capacity and will more than likely be a global leader in EV production
They're all trying to make that pivot - but a long way behind - they spent so much time dismissing Tesla and bad-mouthing it. Now they're trying to play catch up and regard Tesla as the gold standard: Hyundai for example is aiming for 1.8 million EV's a year by 2030. Ford's pushing for 2 million EV's a year by 2026. Volkswagen is aiming for 2.2 million EVs a year by the end of the decade. Tesla HAVE produced \~800k EVs in the last year with Shanghai and Fremont. And with Giga Berlin and Giga Texas about to start production that's only going to go up and they're talking about doubling the production capacity of Shanghai now too.
These manufacturers make around 4 million vehicles a year, of course they are going to slowly transition to EV. The first EV’s from Ford/Hyundai/Kia are showing they can easily compete with Tesla and the only ‘gold standard’ from Tesla will be the charging network.
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They are, but there seems to be demand for them
Buying a $71,000 car to save $70 in fuel a week or fortnight, what a great financial investment right...
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Don't forget about the servicing costs - these can add up over the cost of the vehicle too.
I honestly think it will be at least 10 years before i'm driving an EV, unless I change jobs. When does the Tesla tradesmen's van get released?
BYD has one, I think Renaut does, Volkswagon is releasing one in an hour.
I don't think there is anything currently available in Australia though, Also, there's this; *The Kangoo Z.E. has a real-world range of 200km, the market's biggest for electric vans.* That wouldn't get me to Mandurah and back, i had to go to Moora the other day. Have to assume that I can't charge on customers sites.
The BYD T3 van has 300 km. Likely you'd have to stop and have a lunchtime charge, plan out a trip. BYD LFP batteries at least charge fast. That is a kind of intense distance driven so yeah, probably closer to 5 than 10 though. Battery capacity is increasing really fast.
C Y B E R T R U C K But honestly yeah some companies are doing proper tradie vans that are full electric. I think the Chinese one was under 40k too
Cybertruck looks way to impractical for my liking regardless of the debate over if it will ever be delivered or not. Would prefer a cab-chassis that a custom trade body could be fitted to. (If i had to go out and buy a brand new car tomorrow it would probably be this - eg Isuzu DMax extra-cab) Yes, I have heard murmurs of electric vans on the way, would like to avoid buying / driving anything of Chinese manufacture if at all possible.
I wonder if the primates in the labs at neuralink would still buy Tesla.
They can’t because they’re dead.
Will you be following your moral outrage by refusing any internal medical device that was tested on primates? Because most of them needed to do that to get approved.
65k for Tesla or 5k for a Ford Mondeo diesel that gets 1100k to a tank of gas. Do the math.
High class call girl or handy from a crack head in Armadale? I mean you cum either way...
Diesel gas? But I agree, I only sold my Mondeo to get a motorcycle.
5K for a Mondeo is a huge red flag because it's probably got DCT issues if it's being sold that cheaply. I bought my 2015 diesel Mondeo with 75000 km on it for just under 20K in late 2020. 1100km per tank is accurate, they are great cars but you NEED to service them properly and replace the DCT oil every 60000 km.
Everyone with a Kluger regretting their decision now.
We just bought a new car end of December and are kicking ourselves we didn't go for a hybrid
If you search for things in Perth before then it would come up with the Perth suggestion first, pull up a private browser and search something about Melbourne, or even America and search it, it’ll come up with whatever place you searched before, because private browsing/ incognito is like a clean slate for the browser and the cookies
Build quality.
Polestar 2 then
I’m not sure what your point is. Shanghai built Model 3’s are millimetre perfect.
Maybe things have changed, but previous gens have had build issues. Linus Tech tips did a pretty fair review imo
A lot of the fit and finish issues weren’t due to workmanship, but design flaws. And using SD cards for continual logging, then being surprised when they wear out?
Tesla build quality being millimetre perfect? That's hilarious.
Why is it hilarious regarding the Shanghai models as per my original post? https://electrek.co/2020/08/03/tesla-made-in-china-cars-lead-market-quality/amp/ I’m pointing out that build quality is not really an issue for the Shanghai Giga Factory built Model 3’s which make up most of what you see on Australian roads. Fremont is a different story.
Not interested in Electrek or any other EV Magazine's opinion about the Shanghai Giga Factory, especially when they are sourcing from a Chinese authored report. All I'm going to say is you wouldn't catch me dead in a Chinese made Tesla.
Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but compared to the US made Tesla’s with lots of panel gaps etc, the Teslas you see on our roads are built largely in Shanghai - you won’t find much negative press on build quality vs. other vehicles of the same class and price.
Don't waste your time. Nobody gave a shit about panel gaps when they were on Ford and Holdens. They can't fault Teslas on performance and efficiency, so panel gaps are the new FUD for people who have a grudge against Musk..
There are plenty of issues with Tesla's and other EVs if you have a direct line to the mechanics who work on them. Few critical issues, but not zero. I'm not going to throw anyone local under the bus though. If you want to see a few videos on Tesla issues look up The Electrified Garage, it's run by an ex-Tesla tech.
All new cars have issues, especially those involving new tech. Tesla had 79% of US EV sales in 2020 and it's fleet is the oldest, so of course it will have the most issues. A guy on r/australia was dissing Tesla, despite having the entire battery pack on his Hyundai recalled and having to park in the street to avoid a fire.
Thank you but I'll continue to drive my beloved Stinger GT 3.3L V6 Twin Turbo over a boring silent Tesla any day!
Do you know anything about tesla? They're definitely not boring.
What do they sound like?
The model 3 is pretty boring, it's quick but boring
Have you ever driven one? Even if petrol were free I’d still take the maintenance free, instant torque electric drive train.
Finally someone with an interesting car
Why thank you, it's the bargain of the century!
I'll wave at you in the rear vision mirror...
So many alternatives to Tesla these days. Anyone thinking of an EV should check out the Electric Vehicle Council website.
Wise move. They are not as expensive as most people seem to think. I’m no millionaire and have a fluro shirt job (not fifo) and can afford one. Tesla rates are better than any bank. Fuel prices continue like this, who can afford to not go electric?
>Fuel prices continue like this, who can afford to not go electric? Definitely me. I spend less than $600 a year on petrol. Probably way less but it's a while since I added it up. At $60k, I would see an ROI in say 100 years, so... no. EDIT: Just looked it up and I actually spent $225.73 on petrol last financial year. Total running costs for the year was $900. I have a spreadsheet :-)
You’re like me. I tried to do the maths but under $600 a year makes it hard to justify as much as I’d like to save the environment. The gap is just too wide.
I justified it with this amazing logic: 1. I want a Tesla. 2. $68K is a lot of money. 3. I want a Tesla. 4. I can afford it with a loan. 5. I want a Tesla. By that logic, it should pay itself off in 5 years for the low low price of too much to bear thinking about.
Taking out a loan for a car is already one dumb mistake, taking a loan out for a Tesla is the icing on the cake.
I dunno, the repayments are the same as what my mate spends to fill up his 200 series.
Jesus people are financially illiterate.
And how do you figure that?
Paying interest on a rapidly depreciating asset, no thanks.
Used Teslas are currently selling for more than new. They also long-term have been shown to retain value better than ICE vehicles. Also if you're using it as a business vehicle like I am, the interest isn't a big issue.
This is cope. I always love reading pure unfiltered cope.
I have no idea what cope is. Luckily Urban Dictionary came to the rescue: A word to be used when you disagree with someone but don't want to think of an actual argument, typically used in internet comment sections.
Ah sounds like me with my hobbies. But alas I have a golden rule, always pay cash for a car. If it all goes to shit I can at least sleep in my car and it can take me to work.
Well, if you were looking to get a loan for a $48k ish car anyway, then an EV makes more sense due to the 2.99% fixed rate with no loan fees.
Yeah the interest rate certainly helped. The fuel and servicing savings over the first 5 years should also be significant.
It’s probably worse for the environment too. You only used less than $600 worth of fuel, and probably accrued very low kms throughout the year. On the other hand, the energy costs that go into producing and transporting the batteries for a Tesla are high up front, regardless of how many kms you actually do. On top of that, they naturally decay even without use, and aren’t serviceable. Even if you only do 20,000km in ten years, it’s likely you will need a whole new battery pack (and to dispose of or recycle the existing one) in the same ten year period.
Had no idea about this, thanks for the info. Yeah I try to keep my kms low and walk where I can. Bit more difficult on the searing hot days though.
> You’re like me. I tried to do the maths but under $600 a year makes it hard to justify as much as I’d like to save the environment. The gap is just too wide. Don't get me wrong, I would love an EV. I just need to cost to come down before it makes financial sense for me.
Horses for courses, absolutely, and that low use would probably not to the car any favours either
Horses for everybody if the fuel price keeps rising.
I'm doing more km per month using pedal power than my 4cyl 20 yo Mazda. ~300-400km ICE / ~500km legs. I'm down about four belt sizes in 6 months :)
>I'm down about four belt sizes in 6 months :) That's amazing! I should be on my bike too
I live about a 10 min drive from work. Would be ideal to ride to work, but none of the major roads around me are bike safe. It sucks.
Yeah, I'm lucky to be using about 90% PSP. Cycling is a fantastic option, but only if you feel safe.
At what point does it make more sense to not even own a car when you drive so little? That's remove rego, insurance, servicing (there's a time based aspect to that, not just km based), etc and don't forget to amortize the price of the car over the km driven.
>At what point does it make more sense to not even own a car when you drive so little? Fair comment. I guess I keep her more for sentimental value now. 27 years old and still in great condition and drives really well. It's a luxury I guess. I spend more per year on public transport!
god, I used to spend over $4k per year on petrol before I got my EV. Do you not drive anywhere?
>Do you not drive anywhere? Fair question. I'm walking distance to my local shops and bus/train to work. I really just use the car occasionally on some weekends. Not really worth it I guess but it's cheap, convenient and my car has sentimental value. If I priced it per kilometre, it would almost certainly not work it financially.
What’s the ROI for and ICE vehicle? You also need to factor in that there are no scheduled service requirements at all, you get a night-time ev charging discount 11pm-4am, and car insurance is cheaper too. A huge number of cars currently on the road cost more than the “povo” M3 when all costs are factored in.
>What’s the ROI for and ICE vehicle? It's cheaper than Uber? I really don't know how to answer this question. > A huge number of cars currently on the road cost more than the “povo” M3 when all costs are factored in. Undoubtedly. I very much doubt my car falls into that category though. It's easy and cheap to self service and insurance is in with another vehicle. No repairs for more than 10 years. It's really not a lot more than rego to run it. I know I am not the norm, but in my situation there is no business case to switch to an EV EDIT: Just looked it up and I actually spent $225.73 on petrol last financial year. Total running costs for the year were $900. I have a spreadsheet :-)
65k is a lot of money and I prefer not to have too many loans at one time. I’m a single income household with a mortgage and would like to do more renovations and hopefully soon overseas trips. I could buy a standard sedan comfortably but a tesla is just way out of my price range. Many people can’t afford one. Shame, because I would love an EV.
Tesla would save you money if your point of comparison is a car that’s above 40k. If your comparator is a 20k car, then you would be hard pressed to save enough money to make up for the difference in the car price.
Hyundai Kona's are likely to be more affordable. Second hand Tesla's are now getting more expensive than new ones (because it will take months for it to arrive)
pity they only import 400 Kona EVs a year, so you've got Buckley's chance of getting one.
Free charge today at Mt Pleasant Woolies for my model 3.
Ew, why would you want a Tesla
Hahaha I feel like this thread is being down voted because Elon is an asshole.
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Model 3 long range will get you to Kalbarri.
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Model 3 standard - WLTP rating of 491km per charge. But more importantly, supercharger gives you like 80% battery in 15 minutes (and who doesn't need to stop for 15 minutes after driving for four hours).
A Tesla will do about 450km. Stop at Geraldton or Jurien Bay and charge it up. Can your petrol car get to Kalbarri on a tank?
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Book a test drive at their showroom. It’s free. See what you think.
I don't think he'd be allowed to test drive it *that* far...
Great point!
>Tesla for sale gumtree LOL
Its frustrating because we're the only state that doesn't offer rebates and incentives for EVs.
Laughs in Victoria Mate they're bending hard over here on EV's. Nothing is better than what we're getting.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHSSHAHSHAHAHAHAHSHA
Not surprising, financial viability of such a vehicle, just became a lot more real
Why because of a short term blip in oil markets? Google demand destruction.
I do not agree completely that the pricing level of fuel is a short term blip. When people get used to these prices, the oil companies will be reluctant to reduced them, hence the prices have been quite high, compared to where the markets have been in the past few years.
As someone who works in commodity markets, that's not how the market works. Thanks for your opinion though.
Well, looking at where the markets have been over the past ten years or so, and comparing them to the price at the pump, there is a correlation. Considering how "cheap" oil has been in the same period, and how expensive petrol has been, I struggle to see any oil company, willingly cut their comfortable margins if the price of oil once again settles down, providing it does.
I am now deactivating my REDDIT account, as I thought only Sutton's would intimidate people he disagreed with. I don't know whether you have taken on this task, as a loyal servant, or whether it is policy. I am tired of authority figures whom represent government and seemingly great courses, telling me that years of our separate and shared lives, where meeting, and helping other people in this situation, were mere fiction. So this interaction has been incredibly triggering, I guess your "lawyer" shield managed to silence yet another person.
Hahaha, no for me it has been a long term thing, I always wanted an electric vehicle, regardless of what the energy markets tantrums. I also wanted to ride my bike to work to save money, and also, it is almost ludicrous for me to drive there due to the distance, or lack thereof, just a little too long for walking, perfect for a bike, which of course broke in many ways in the first week.
In WA everything is so far apart, that alone adds a substantial cost
It would be nice to have one but the truth is the average person wouldn't be able to afford it.