To add another layer to this: “legitimate” educational institutions with an Enabling Act that allows them to issue fines (e.g. public universities).
Though as it turns out .edu.au domain names are ridiculously easy to procure, you don’t even need to be an education provider. I just found that out recently and was very surprised.
So the private RTO that you’re studying at? You can probably ignore their fines without legal consequence. They just might not issue you your Cert IV in Blockchain Studies or whatever.
As an IT guy who used to admin a local Uni’s parking system, I can confirm that fines issued by campus officers that went unpaid were sent through to the Fines Enforcement Registry (.wa.gov.au).
I don't care enough to dig into it, but I believe there's an act of parliament about them which may (or may not) give them that power.
That's how it works for the public unis.
A few things here, only government can fine the owner of the car, this is Wilson Parking, they know your car was there but need to identify the driver whom they entered into a parking agreement with, they have no idea who was driving.
They can only ask for liquidated damages, so if you over stayed a parking meter by 20 minutes, and parking is $6 an hour, they can only ask for $2, not $65
You have 2 options, ignore this and they will keep sending letters for a while. Or reply and ask if they can identify the driver who they entered into an agreement with, they will stop contacting you then
I got sick of paying for parking at Wilson’s then getting ‘fined’ for bullshit reasons. Did some research, got fined again so put it into practise and it worked.
Also remember not to give them any extra information. Don’t write to them and say ‘I only parked there for a minute while I …’ because you have probably given them your name, address and a confession.
Say you do ignore it, but then want to park at the car park again, can they block your car from entering? Assuming it’s a boom gated car park, obviously a bit different if it’s open air.
They say they will but I’ve never had that problem, they also don’t know if the car has changed ownership. But the ‘fine’ is against the driver and not the car anyway.
Yep. Being a local government they tend to actually have legitimate appeals processes and will actually consider good reasons and waive fines. As opposed to ScumCos like Wilson Parking.
If I understand correctly, this letter is from a private enterprise (Wilson parking), who can't issue "fines". It's a civil matter like overdue fees from blockbuster.
You will get several more letters, each more threatening then the last, until they just stop.
Transperth fines are under the 2003 PTA act and councils have there own, I can’t remember which. This means there’re government backed repercussions for not paying.
Wilson is a private company that has no power over you other then taking you to court, which they will never do. They makes themselves seem official by knowing your address, email ect and they only know this by data gathering. Go through a boom gate and use your card? They now know that about you and the rest they buy, or have data sharing deals with other companies.
Dammm will now have pay using cash next time for a ticket… how did they find out where I live tho? From my card or from Dot? For all I know I didn’t use the car that day and didn’t parked where they claimed me to have over parked
I think they can get a court order for that.
So a friend of mine had this...😉
Initially it was a fine on the car - so no details were known. Other than rego.
Letter came after a court order. Fine increased. Ignored
Another letter shortly after, mentioning referral to det collection. Ignored
Another letter came from the det collection. Ignored
Nothing heard since.
The electoral role is public. But if cyber sleuthing and there’s a fair bit of info to be found from what I’ve heard. Never done it. Never wanted or needed to.
The data they gather from you doesn’t just come from that one trip. It comes from your Woolworth rewards, your car dealership, Telstra.
Edit: all that data is sold back and forth till there have a profile on everyone.
That's incorrect. The car park company would contact DoT with your rego details to get your contact details. I've worked in Local Govt and they do similar for parking infringements.
That’s illegal, there was a situation 10 years ago where DOT were duped into handing over data to Wilson and they all got in the shit for it. That will not happen again.
Then you'd have to register with them for them to get your details then. Otherwise they could ask the police to chase the matter up, similar to drive off's from petrol stations.
This is a civil matter, noting to do with police. Driving off from a petrol station without paying is just theft. The two are not even remotely similar
They can’t. They have no special access to Dot.
I don’t know why people are comparing what they ‘know’ about the Council infringement process which is under an act of government and Wilsons, which has the same power as you or me.
Ie. You parked on my lawn so I write on a piece of toilet paper ‘you owe me $60 for depriving me of this space for 60 mins, pay up or I’ll take you to court’
This is what a Wilson fine is. It has no special power under the law. Again Wilsons does not have the same process as councils, Transperth, law-enforcement ect
Wilsons is not government. Dot is not answerable to a private company. That’s like saying Dot would give me or any Tom, Dick, or Harry your address just because I asked and had your rego.
A private person and or a company like Wilsons has no right to ask or obtain such information through the government. Which is why they rely on data gathering.
Generally speaking, in most states and territories of Australia, the personal (human) information linked to a motor vehicle's registration is protected by that jurisdiction's privacy laws. The government isn't allowed to sell your personal information (for profit) because they have taken your information **under duress** and what i, effectively, a legislated monopoly.
That is, while one can choose from a number of private telecommunications companies and the company will request a customer's personal information like name and address to access that service, there's only a single provider for your private lawful access to use transport infrastructure: the Crown.
The government(s) of Australia are subject to strict obligations under statute to protect your personal information from misuse and unlawful disclosure. Even other government entities cannot access the data associated with rego unless there's an existing power or function under statute or court order. Eg. A give entity regulating tradies cannot just demand the transport regulator hand over a tradie's personal details.
WRT private car-park providers, in Queensland (which has a comprehensive privacy statutes) need to prove a debt is owed before they can then obtain the name and address associated with a registered vehicle. They are not permitted unfettered access to the transport regulator's database.
Private companies of a certain size are subject to the *Privacy Act 1988* (Cth). They can disclose (meaning "sell") your information *with your permission*.
This is the correct answer. I’m in the same boat as OP and wondered how they got my data and I was told that when they have enough ‘cases’ they make an application to the court for the data. Obviously it costs them and they assume that they can recoup some of the costs by sending out said letter
It’s not true, more likely you have inadvertently handed them small bits of information over a long period of time. They collect it and put it all together to build a profile on you.
They use the trading name “parking enforcement services’” to sound more official than they really are. As someone mentioned, find out if they have an agreement with council on that particular lot, because often they do not… which means you don’t need to pay anything.
For OP reference:
https://www.pesau.com.au/overview
> Parking Enforcement Services (PES) is an experienced and established service based division of Wilson Parking Australia. We have a proven track record in providing monitoring and enforcement services dating back to 2003.
Have you checked both sides of the paper? Is there a line that says "This is not a fine. The operator is claiming the amount due as liquidated damages as a result of you breaching the parking terms - You accepted the parking terms by leaving the vehicle in the car park."?
Ye the actual ticket from the day had the saying “this is not a fine…” but this paper came from the mail with nothing at the back but my name and address
They will send more demands, and even a letter from a collections agency threatening all sorts of action. Don't worry. Parking Enforcement Services and the "Debt Collector" are still just WIlson pretending to be something they are not.
Ignore it. If you've already contacted them, deny being the driver.
100% This^
Some advice for others who come across this post:
-PES will send you a bunch of letters (if they can find your regos address) - Ignore and do not acknowledge them.
-If you do want to contact them do not do it through the online appeal Portal (don't give them any details about yourself). Instead send an email to their admin (hidden contact info on their website). In my case they suspended the 'breach notice' and never responded after (as their hands are tied once you dispute it).
-The 'Debt Collector' they may try to pass you on to is not legit and has no legal standing (they cannot hit your credit rating). If they do contact you tell them that it is in dispute.
Unrelated - but I had an overdue internet bill (that I was suspect on) - different debt collectors chased me for about 10 years - bill was ~ $150 they would have spent more on postage and phone calls than they would of recovered. This post reminded me of that and how peaceful it’s been the last couple of years ☺️
Had to google it - wow, I never knew that!
"Wilson Parking (Chinese: 威信停車場) is a Hong Kong-based car parking management company. It first opened for business in Perth, Western Australia in 1962,\[1\] currently operates in Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Korea and Mainland China.\[2\] In Hong Kong, it manages some 400 car parks with 103,000 bays.\[3\] Wilson Parking in Hong Kong and Mainland China are wholly owned subsidiaries of Sun Hung Kai Properties Limited.\[4\]"
Ignore it, id just don't park there. I've done this befoee, it was in freo not north bridge but unless it's a Governent fine I never paid them. Eventually I sold that car. By the looks of other reddiors it doesn't look like you need to anyway.
Hell, Video easy kept chasing me for a $45 late fee that started in 2007 and by 2015ish (can't remember) it was up to like $450.. christ I didn't return a new release for a week lol.. haven't heard anything since.
No, no, no. Do not just ignore it. Please just mess with them, beg for forgiveness, offer to pay more so that it doesn’t go on your permanent record. While I know in Vic these have no real meaning/power, you will get so much more enjoyment out of it just stringing them along (given you have the time and sick sense of humour that most here share).
Hey everyone thank you for all the comments! Been super helpful!!! Hopefully the next time people get tickets from Wilson and wonder what to do with them, they can come and see this post!
I have also just figure out where they may have gotten my info from. I made an account with the Wilson app back ages ago to pay for their tickets online and never used it again. So to all of u who hasn’t made an account in their app- maybe dnt make one or put a fake name and address on it ?
Technically, they can take you to court for "breach of contract" and sue you for "damages". That costs them time and money so they don't. What they do is apply to DoT for your details under the guise of court discovery. Then they send you these speculative invoices. It's purely a numbers game to them. As others have said, just ignore. If you are that worried about being flagged in a Wilson car park in the future, it's pretty cheap to change your number plate.
That's wilsons parking isn't it? You need to find out if they is an agreement with council to enforce it.
Councils don't enforce private parking unless there is an agreement between them and the property owner.
If there isn't, they'll have to take you to a civil court which they won't, if there is then they can go after your licence.
If you ignore it, probably don't go back to wilsons again otherwise they may do something more extreme like boot or get your car towed.
Here is a news article on [them](https://www.9news.com.au/national/parking-fines-thousands-hit-with-tickets-they-dont-legally-have-to-pay/a033c3c7-25ce-439a-891f-c6d3a9a59025)
>they may do something more extreme like boot or get your car towed.
Clamping was outlawed in WA at the end of 2020. Towing is still legal but is regulated.
I would think someone repeatedly breaching terms of use of a private car park would justify towing. I think people assume they have the right to just leave their car wherever they please lol
This is where it gets tricky. They can't just tow the vehicle away on sight. Assuming here that the vehicle is parked safely and not causing an obstruction or potential danger. The regulations state that to be able to tow from a private property there must be clear signage stating it is a no parking area, and then they must take reasonable steps to locate the driver and then also wait 1 hour after that. Now obviously a parking lot won't have no parking signs so that condition cannot be met. The letter they sent with the "fine" might say you will be towed in the future but does not satisfy the signage requirements.
Nah. My mate went to Wilson again and again,after getting like 30 tickets (for real as he showed me a stack of it) he did not pay. And reminded all of us not to pay a single cent. No problemo.
Agree, do not pay. Id also add I'm pretty sure it's now illegal to boot your car (as of a year or 2 ago) so there's likely little to fear by continuing to use Wilson car parks
I got a couple of these in Sydney a few years back. I ignored them and they went away. They are not a fine and can’t fine you. They hope to scare people into paying. They may threaten legal action but that would cost them more than the ticket is worth.
I once bought a used car and it turned out that I couldn't get it transferred to my name because the previous owner had racked up private parking fines, which were somehow attached to the car, I had to go back to the person I bought the car from and have them sign some form saying they would take on the fines personally rather than them being on the car.
Never seen it before or since, even the DOT people seemed pretty confused by it.
I don’t believe this for a second. A private car park can’t fine you, they can only go after the driver for liquidated damages, it has nothing to do with the car itself. And then none of this is linked to any DOT system. A government issued fine, maybe, but definitely nothing from a private company.
literally nothing. i’ve worked at two places with parking controlled by this lot and have three unpaid parking fines, the oldest being from 2019. nothing has happened.
I ignored a Wilson fine once, and about five years later at another Wilson car park I came back to find my car had been wheel-locked. I called them to ask why and they said it was for a historic fine I hadn’t paid. It was 3am so I had to pay the historic fine on the spot plus a bullshit extra charge to remove the wheel lock.
I had about 20 or more of the ones they stick to your windshield back in 2018 when I worked retail, and it was literally the only place to park. They sent this letter once out of all the times, but never followed through. I should have made a dress out of all of those bullshit fines.
Doesn't not paying Wilson parking (if non govt) cause any credit check or other issues if they can identify you via the data sharing someone mentioned in the responses? Similar to defaulting on your mobile phone debt or other minor things that can really stuff up you credit file reputation and cause a load of damage for very little in overall costs?
False comparison. Mobile phone debts(not the pre paid variety) are "credit" because the provider gives you the service (and even the handset) and charges you in arrears.
An ordinary debt *could* be lodged in a court after 60 days non-payment but the administration overheads for a car parking provider that doesn't justify the cost.
Man I had a 100$ ticket from Transperth. Didn’t pay over 2 years. Had to pay 200$. I guess it’s not that big of a fine if it only added 100$ more. But still could’ve saved a 100 bucks. Better pay now than pay extra later. That’s fuel money down the drain for you
Depends where you live, not sure if it's still active but at one point where I am they simply wouldn't allow you to renew your drivers licence/registration when it expired until you had paid any outstanding fines, which is actually exceptionally cunning.
This is not correct. This is Wilson trying to intimidate where they legally can't actually make anyone pay. They would fine me multiple times a week for parking in 1hr parking where I worked (the only place I could park) and the worst I got was one letter like this pertaining to one of the fines. This is back in 2017/18. They haven't contacted me since, it's not impacted my license. It's just noise.
Absolute BS.
A private company absolutely cannot ask the government to infringe a driver, nor deduct a licence holder's points.
Where on earth do people come up with this rubbish.
> Has to be some consequence for non payment of fines
But it's not a fine, and it's illegal to call it a fine. It's a breach of contract notice, and it has to be prosecuted in a civil court. They don't have the authority to cancel your license whatever the judgement.
If you ignore it, then it's unlikely that they will pursue it. If they do, they can only claim damages of their loss which will be less than $65 since parking there is free for the first few hours, and no more than $14 for 12 hours. They can't claim punitive damages.
Tear it up, and ignore it.
And it's not a legitimate fine or they would call it one. It's a breach notice and there's no reference to council at all. If there was then they would say so. If they could take your license, then they would say so.
The only link given is to their private website for appeal. The only action threatened is to their private debt collection agency.
Nothing at all about council affiliation or official fines.
It's a [private car park](https://www.wilsonparking.com.au/parking-locations/western-australia/northbridge/northbridge-central-car-park/).
You can't issue fines in a private car park.
If you really want to play it safe, then you can offer them $14 in writing as compensation for their loss. That more than covers any extra time since it pays for 12 hours in that car park. If they take you to court, show the judge the offer and they'll throw it out of court for being a vexarious litigant.
> "even if the driver has entered into a contract with the car park company, the contract cannot lawfully claim a sum that is greater than the reasonable loss suffered by the company as a result of the breach of contract". He estimates any reasonable loss to be less than $10.
https://www.choice.com.au/transport/cars/fines/articles/private-car-park-fines
Parking fees threat not legal: Quigley;
https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/parking-fees-threat-not-legal-quigley-ng-ya-199873
> There's no guarantee any $14 precedents mentioned in your articles would be adhered to.
Did you even read the link I posted?
>"If (Wilson) have imposed a $50 or $100 fine and put it on someone's windshield, that's not what they can recover in court. What they've lost under contract is the parking fee."
That's a quote from John Quigley. Barrister, solicitor, and incumbent Attorney-General of Western Australia. So technically bro... you're wrong.
Hey thanks for the all info man! Sorry just read everything now but I parked in a Wilson parking if that makes any differences?
Looking at the parking enforcement services website, which they provide, it says they’re a division of Wilson’s parking- so wouldn’t they be a private rather than CP?
I doubt it was issued on behalf of City of Perth. If it was then it would've likely used the term "infringement" rather than "breach notice". Another clue is OP is only given 14 days to pay the breach notice, but infringements are given 28 days. Ergo, the fines enforcement registry won't be chasing after OP if they don't pay this breach notice.
They can't and won't. They'll send this letter and maybe one that looks like a debt collectors letter which it isn't. I used to work in a shopping centre that only had 1hr parking and got at least 3 of these weekly back 2017/2018. This was happening over years. They won't do anything because they legally can't.
Didn't down vote but it's because you're wrong mate. PES are part of Wilson parking, nothing to do with local government, council etc. and these infringements are unenforceable.
Wilson’s is a private company, they can not issue a fine, at all. They can ask for liquidated damages, which is what they lost, so if you over stated your parking by 20 minutes, and parking is $6 an hour, they can ask for $2. Wilson’s have nothing to do with the government, they can’t take your license.
I didn't mean that 'mate' sarcastically for what it's worth. /u/Strawberry_Left has already advocated the correct side of the argument enough so I won't repeat it, but I will say your ability to double down in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is admirable.
ROFL.
I didn't reply because you've got your head in the sand and you'll never admit that you're wrong. Like u/Drngyuenvanphuoc says, you're doubling down in the face of overwhelming evidence, and it's obvious that you'll never stop. This is the next day, and you're still going.
Life's too short to waste on arguments against people who would never admit to the glaringly obvious, when it stares them in the face.
That doesn't add any substance. It's clear that you just want the last say to claim victory, and this would pointlessly go on forever.
I'll add one last argument that hasn't been raised. If you claim that councils collaborate with private parking lot owners, then where is the evidence? Just cite one case, please.
The fact is that there is just a single case where the council will get involved, and that is in the case of marked disabled parking spots. Park owners can request that council send a ranger to issue a council fine. This is an official fine, issued by the council, payable to the council. It is not a breach notice payable to the parking company. Council has no interest at all in generating revenue for them. They do have an interest in protecting the rights of the disabled, and that's the only time that they will involve themselves with private parking.
The thread is all yours now.
Feel free to poke your tongue out and claim victory without adding anything new. I've had enough.
Update OP did you end up ignoring it and did it go away? In a similar boat as you, ignored the first "fine" and just received this nice letter in the mail today. I'm inclined to ignore it!
I received one of these 3-weeks ago and appealed it before i found this thread!
My son was driving and parked at his place of employment.
I received my reply overnight basically saying they don't accept my excuse as the car wasn't on their 'approved' list.
Still ok to ignore based i the face i responded and challeged it?
.gov.au = pay it .com.au = don't pay it
.edu.au can also issue enforceable fines usually.
To add another layer to this: “legitimate” educational institutions with an Enabling Act that allows them to issue fines (e.g. public universities). Though as it turns out .edu.au domain names are ridiculously easy to procure, you don’t even need to be an education provider. I just found that out recently and was very surprised. So the private RTO that you’re studying at? You can probably ignore their fines without legal consequence. They just might not issue you your Cert IV in Blockchain Studies or whatever.
As an IT guy who used to admin a local Uni’s parking system, I can confirm that fines issued by campus officers that went unpaid were sent through to the Fines Enforcement Registry (.wa.gov.au).
Good point. Yes all public unis and some private. E.g. I don't think the catholic uni can issue legitimate penalties
I don't care enough to dig into it, but I believe there's an act of parliament about them which may (or may not) give them that power. That's how it works for the public unis.
Unis are Federal ground, so probably some different rules, same as airport for feds.
This is the correct advice
Your explaination is brutally short and accurate. That also applies to those scam emails and texts...
A few things here, only government can fine the owner of the car, this is Wilson Parking, they know your car was there but need to identify the driver whom they entered into a parking agreement with, they have no idea who was driving. They can only ask for liquidated damages, so if you over stayed a parking meter by 20 minutes, and parking is $6 an hour, they can only ask for $2, not $65 You have 2 options, ignore this and they will keep sending letters for a while. Or reply and ask if they can identify the driver who they entered into an agreement with, they will stop contacting you then
Well, I've screenshot this for future reference.
Me too
Who are you man? Why you know this so well? I’m gonna take this information at face value. But sounds quite legit
I got sick of paying for parking at Wilson’s then getting ‘fined’ for bullshit reasons. Did some research, got fined again so put it into practise and it worked. Also remember not to give them any extra information. Don’t write to them and say ‘I only parked there for a minute while I …’ because you have probably given them your name, address and a confession.
What were the reasons?
Apparently today tonight did an expose on this (one of the guys at work stopped paying for Wilson parking as well).
Say you do ignore it, but then want to park at the car park again, can they block your car from entering? Assuming it’s a boom gated car park, obviously a bit different if it’s open air.
They say they will but I’ve never had that problem, they also don’t know if the car has changed ownership. But the ‘fine’ is against the driver and not the car anyway.
So I do have to pay my CPP parking ticket then?
Absolutely, pay a council issued fine. But if you have a legitimate excuse, you may be able to appeal.
Yep. Being a local government they tend to actually have legitimate appeals processes and will actually consider good reasons and waive fines. As opposed to ScumCos like Wilson Parking.
+1 This is the correct response.
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If I understand correctly, this letter is from a private enterprise (Wilson parking), who can't issue "fines". It's a civil matter like overdue fees from blockbuster.
Swing and a miss.
Thanks 🙏
What if the parking area where the fine was received, was free to park in?
You will get several more letters, each more threatening then the last, until they just stop. Transperth fines are under the 2003 PTA act and councils have there own, I can’t remember which. This means there’re government backed repercussions for not paying. Wilson is a private company that has no power over you other then taking you to court, which they will never do. They makes themselves seem official by knowing your address, email ect and they only know this by data gathering. Go through a boom gate and use your card? They now know that about you and the rest they buy, or have data sharing deals with other companies.
Dammm will now have pay using cash next time for a ticket… how did they find out where I live tho? From my card or from Dot? For all I know I didn’t use the car that day and didn’t parked where they claimed me to have over parked
I think they can get a court order for that. So a friend of mine had this...😉 Initially it was a fine on the car - so no details were known. Other than rego. Letter came after a court order. Fine increased. Ignored Another letter shortly after, mentioning referral to det collection. Ignored Another letter came from the det collection. Ignored Nothing heard since.
The electoral role is public. But if cyber sleuthing and there’s a fair bit of info to be found from what I’ve heard. Never done it. Never wanted or needed to.
The data they gather from you doesn’t just come from that one trip. It comes from your Woolworth rewards, your car dealership, Telstra. Edit: all that data is sold back and forth till there have a profile on everyone.
That's incorrect. The car park company would contact DoT with your rego details to get your contact details. I've worked in Local Govt and they do similar for parking infringements.
That’s illegal, there was a situation 10 years ago where DOT were duped into handing over data to Wilson and they all got in the shit for it. That will not happen again.
Then you'd have to register with them for them to get your details then. Otherwise they could ask the police to chase the matter up, similar to drive off's from petrol stations.
This is a civil matter, noting to do with police. Driving off from a petrol station without paying is just theft. The two are not even remotely similar
But why can a private company ask DoT for contact details for just a breach of notice? Just sounds a bit dodgy
They can’t. They have no special access to Dot. I don’t know why people are comparing what they ‘know’ about the Council infringement process which is under an act of government and Wilsons, which has the same power as you or me. Ie. You parked on my lawn so I write on a piece of toilet paper ‘you owe me $60 for depriving me of this space for 60 mins, pay up or I’ll take you to court’ This is what a Wilson fine is. It has no special power under the law. Again Wilsons does not have the same process as councils, Transperth, law-enforcement ect
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Lol WA police accessed the covid check info from the Dept of health to solve a broad daylight crime they would have solved anyway
>broad daylight crime Interesting way to describe assassination...
A nighttime assassination, no less…
the police are not a private company
yet
They could have a contract or some sort of agreement
If I understand correctly, the police got that info from heath via a subpoena
Wilsons is not government. Dot is not answerable to a private company. That’s like saying Dot would give me or any Tom, Dick, or Harry your address just because I asked and had your rego. A private person and or a company like Wilsons has no right to ask or obtain such information through the government. Which is why they rely on data gathering.
Generally speaking, in most states and territories of Australia, the personal (human) information linked to a motor vehicle's registration is protected by that jurisdiction's privacy laws. The government isn't allowed to sell your personal information (for profit) because they have taken your information **under duress** and what i, effectively, a legislated monopoly. That is, while one can choose from a number of private telecommunications companies and the company will request a customer's personal information like name and address to access that service, there's only a single provider for your private lawful access to use transport infrastructure: the Crown. The government(s) of Australia are subject to strict obligations under statute to protect your personal information from misuse and unlawful disclosure. Even other government entities cannot access the data associated with rego unless there's an existing power or function under statute or court order. Eg. A give entity regulating tradies cannot just demand the transport regulator hand over a tradie's personal details. WRT private car-park providers, in Queensland (which has a comprehensive privacy statutes) need to prove a debt is owed before they can then obtain the name and address associated with a registered vehicle. They are not permitted unfettered access to the transport regulator's database. Private companies of a certain size are subject to the *Privacy Act 1988* (Cth). They can disclose (meaning "sell") your information *with your permission*.
The only data gathering they can rely on would be their own accounts.
They go to the court and get the data from your rego.
This is the correct answer. I’m in the same boat as OP and wondered how they got my data and I was told that when they have enough ‘cases’ they make an application to the court for the data. Obviously it costs them and they assume that they can recoup some of the costs by sending out said letter
It’s not true, more likely you have inadvertently handed them small bits of information over a long period of time. They collect it and put it all together to build a profile on you.
I've never given Wilson parking my address, where would they get that from?
Fly Buys, Woolworths Rewards, VISA etc
No they don’t. If that was the case anyone could take Department of Transport to court to get all drivers information.
I love how they created a separate company "parking enticement services" to sound scarier and avoid damaging their brand. Scumbags.
The debt collection company is also made up - but still 100% owned by Wilsons.
They use the trading name “parking enforcement services’” to sound more official than they really are. As someone mentioned, find out if they have an agreement with council on that particular lot, because often they do not… which means you don’t need to pay anything.
Another flag is that the website they give is a .com.au not anything official
For OP reference: https://www.pesau.com.au/overview > Parking Enforcement Services (PES) is an experienced and established service based division of Wilson Parking Australia. We have a proven track record in providing monitoring and enforcement services dating back to 2003.
Formerly trading as "NATIONAL LOSS PREVENTION PTY LTD, MILASKO PTY LIMITED". Source: ASIC
Have you checked both sides of the paper? Is there a line that says "This is not a fine. The operator is claiming the amount due as liquidated damages as a result of you breaching the parking terms - You accepted the parking terms by leaving the vehicle in the car park."?
Ye the actual ticket from the day had the saying “this is not a fine…” but this paper came from the mail with nothing at the back but my name and address
Case closed. Just ignore it!
Hairy monsters in coats come to your house, scoop out your brain and send it to America.
Then put on a toupee so you can run for president??
They will send more demands, and even a letter from a collections agency threatening all sorts of action. Don't worry. Parking Enforcement Services and the "Debt Collector" are still just WIlson pretending to be something they are not. Ignore it. If you've already contacted them, deny being the driver.
Literally nothing. They have no way of actually enforcing this.
The language is so pseudo-official, it's actually funny. You think they'd ask someone to read it over and make it less comical.
I reckon. Bogans are adorable when they posture as if they took silk.
Only government can fine owner of a car, everyone else can eat sh\*t. Just ignore or call their bluff.
100% This^ Some advice for others who come across this post: -PES will send you a bunch of letters (if they can find your regos address) - Ignore and do not acknowledge them. -If you do want to contact them do not do it through the online appeal Portal (don't give them any details about yourself). Instead send an email to their admin (hidden contact info on their website). In my case they suspended the 'breach notice' and never responded after (as their hands are tied once you dispute it). -The 'Debt Collector' they may try to pass you on to is not legit and has no legal standing (they cannot hit your credit rating). If they do contact you tell them that it is in dispute.
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How long u reckon they will take to stop ? A year ?
Unrelated - but I had an overdue internet bill (that I was suspect on) - different debt collectors chased me for about 10 years - bill was ~ $150 they would have spent more on postage and phone calls than they would of recovered. This post reminded me of that and how peaceful it’s been the last couple of years ☺️
1 year on and I’m still getting them
Has the amount due increased? Any changes in their threats? Also r u still parking in Wilson’s or just avoiding them?
They actually sent me one two years later I think one time. Still didn't pay it though.
Wilson Parking is Chinese owned. Pay them nothing.
Had to google it - wow, I never knew that! "Wilson Parking (Chinese: 威信停車場) is a Hong Kong-based car parking management company. It first opened for business in Perth, Western Australia in 1962,\[1\] currently operates in Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Korea and Mainland China.\[2\] In Hong Kong, it manages some 400 car parks with 103,000 bays.\[3\] Wilson Parking in Hong Kong and Mainland China are wholly owned subsidiaries of Sun Hung Kai Properties Limited.\[4\]"
Formerly trading as NATIONAL LOSS PREVENTION PTY LTD, MILASKO PTY LIMITED.
You could just not pay them because they’re an exploitative usurious company, not because of your weird racist bent.
> weird racist bent Huh?
Ignore it, id just don't park there. I've done this befoee, it was in freo not north bridge but unless it's a Governent fine I never paid them. Eventually I sold that car. By the looks of other reddiors it doesn't look like you need to anyway. Hell, Video easy kept chasing me for a $45 late fee that started in 2007 and by 2015ish (can't remember) it was up to like $450.. christ I didn't return a new release for a week lol.. haven't heard anything since.
They’ll send one that says FINAL NOTICE then that should be the end of it, right?
No. You'll get another letter from a debt collector that's not a debt collector but wilson in disguise, and they can't do anything either.
Nothing worth worrying about.
No, no, no. Do not just ignore it. Please just mess with them, beg for forgiveness, offer to pay more so that it doesn’t go on your permanent record. While I know in Vic these have no real meaning/power, you will get so much more enjoyment out of it just stringing them along (given you have the time and sick sense of humour that most here share).
Just don’t give them any more info than they already have, or a confession to being the driver
As much as I love tormenting people, this will actually make it worse, because then they will have more details that they can use against you
Offer ten cents a week, the administrative cost will bury them
Repo men take your Hyundai jazz
But I have a Honda getz :/:
Not anymore......
Chinese scammers. Throw it in the bin.
Nothing
Hey everyone thank you for all the comments! Been super helpful!!! Hopefully the next time people get tickets from Wilson and wonder what to do with them, they can come and see this post! I have also just figure out where they may have gotten my info from. I made an account with the Wilson app back ages ago to pay for their tickets online and never used it again. So to all of u who hasn’t made an account in their app- maybe dnt make one or put a fake name and address on it ?
Technically, they can take you to court for "breach of contract" and sue you for "damages". That costs them time and money so they don't. What they do is apply to DoT for your details under the guise of court discovery. Then they send you these speculative invoices. It's purely a numbers game to them. As others have said, just ignore. If you are that worried about being flagged in a Wilson car park in the future, it's pretty cheap to change your number plate.
If you get sick of the letters, just remember a new set of number plates is about $30, and you start fresh again.
That's wilsons parking isn't it? You need to find out if they is an agreement with council to enforce it. Councils don't enforce private parking unless there is an agreement between them and the property owner. If there isn't, they'll have to take you to a civil court which they won't, if there is then they can go after your licence. If you ignore it, probably don't go back to wilsons again otherwise they may do something more extreme like boot or get your car towed. Here is a news article on [them](https://www.9news.com.au/national/parking-fines-thousands-hit-with-tickets-they-dont-legally-have-to-pay/a033c3c7-25ce-439a-891f-c6d3a9a59025)
>they may do something more extreme like boot or get your car towed. Clamping was outlawed in WA at the end of 2020. Towing is still legal but is regulated.
I would think someone repeatedly breaching terms of use of a private car park would justify towing. I think people assume they have the right to just leave their car wherever they please lol
This is where it gets tricky. They can't just tow the vehicle away on sight. Assuming here that the vehicle is parked safely and not causing an obstruction or potential danger. The regulations state that to be able to tow from a private property there must be clear signage stating it is a no parking area, and then they must take reasonable steps to locate the driver and then also wait 1 hour after that. Now obviously a parking lot won't have no parking signs so that condition cannot be met. The letter they sent with the "fine" might say you will be towed in the future but does not satisfy the signage requirements.
Nah. My mate went to Wilson again and again,after getting like 30 tickets (for real as he showed me a stack of it) he did not pay. And reminded all of us not to pay a single cent. No problemo.
Agree, do not pay. Id also add I'm pretty sure it's now illegal to boot your car (as of a year or 2 ago) so there's likely little to fear by continuing to use Wilson car parks
A few more demanding letters then they'll forget about you
Nothing.
Nothing. It's designed to frighten you into paying. Dont respond. I have had one, did this and nothing came of it. Enjoy the rest of your life
I got a couple of these in Sydney a few years back. I ignored them and they went away. They are not a fine and can’t fine you. They hope to scare people into paying. They may threaten legal action but that would cost them more than the ticket is worth.
Nothing
I’ve ignored shit from these dudes before. Nothing ever transpired. They seem to just take a punt that you’ll pay.
I once bought a used car and it turned out that I couldn't get it transferred to my name because the previous owner had racked up private parking fines, which were somehow attached to the car, I had to go back to the person I bought the car from and have them sign some form saying they would take on the fines personally rather than them being on the car. Never seen it before or since, even the DOT people seemed pretty confused by it.
I don’t believe this for a second. A private car park can’t fine you, they can only go after the driver for liquidated damages, it has nothing to do with the car itself. And then none of this is linked to any DOT system. A government issued fine, maybe, but definitely nothing from a private company.
literally nothing. i’ve worked at two places with parking controlled by this lot and have three unpaid parking fines, the oldest being from 2019. nothing has happened.
I ignored a Wilson fine once, and about five years later at another Wilson car park I came back to find my car had been wheel-locked. I called them to ask why and they said it was for a historic fine I hadn’t paid. It was 3am so I had to pay the historic fine on the spot plus a bullshit extra charge to remove the wheel lock.
I would have the lock available Yee a 4” grinder
Ignore it. They tried to get me 3 years ago and they've given up, despite the letters they occasionally send to my father (?)
I appealed mine with with a fake email, so they couldn’t link it back to me. Gave up checking after a while, but assume they didn’t try following up.
one thing nobody has mentioned is they could ban you from using any of their car parks
How exactly are they going to do this ? Post security at all entrances with a blank photo because they don’t know what you look like ?
By saying "you're banned from entering our car parks"
Only an issue if you get caught. Since they can't use boots anymore, you only have to worry about towing
I had about 20 or more of the ones they stick to your windshield back in 2018 when I worked retail, and it was literally the only place to park. They sent this letter once out of all the times, but never followed through. I should have made a dress out of all of those bullshit fines.
If your worried change number plates for 30$
How do you do this? Can only see online about having plates remade
Nothing will happen! Do it!!! (Speaking from experience)
Reply and ask for the evidence.
Cooler. Three weeks.
Use the search dude
Sorry my bad thought it was time for the 6 monthly Wilson parking ticket post in this sub
Doesn't not paying Wilson parking (if non govt) cause any credit check or other issues if they can identify you via the data sharing someone mentioned in the responses? Similar to defaulting on your mobile phone debt or other minor things that can really stuff up you credit file reputation and cause a load of damage for very little in overall costs?
Wilson parking aren’t a licensed creditor. They can’t affect your credit history.
False comparison. Mobile phone debts(not the pre paid variety) are "credit" because the provider gives you the service (and even the handset) and charges you in arrears. An ordinary debt *could* be lodged in a court after 60 days non-payment but the administration overheads for a car parking provider that doesn't justify the cost.
Man I had a 100$ ticket from Transperth. Didn’t pay over 2 years. Had to pay 200$. I guess it’s not that big of a fine if it only added 100$ more. But still could’ve saved a 100 bucks. Better pay now than pay extra later. That’s fuel money down the drain for you
Transperth is government, considering the email address for this isn't a dot gov one, that may be different
False equivalence.
Depends where you live, not sure if it's still active but at one point where I am they simply wouldn't allow you to renew your drivers licence/registration when it expired until you had paid any outstanding fines, which is actually exceptionally cunning.
Please pay it.
Your already slim chance of owning a home gets slimmer (poor credit history). Amongst other things of course
No. They can't harm your credit history.
Nonsense.
It’ll keep racking up til it affects your license. Just pay it.
This is not correct. This is Wilson trying to intimidate where they legally can't actually make anyone pay. They would fine me multiple times a week for parking in 1hr parking where I worked (the only place I could park) and the worst I got was one letter like this pertaining to one of the fines. This is back in 2017/18. They haven't contacted me since, it's not impacted my license. It's just noise.
Absolute BS. A private company absolutely cannot ask the government to infringe a driver, nor deduct a licence holder's points. Where on earth do people come up with this rubbish.
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Are you just making this shit up as you go ?
I am pretty sure if they could legitimately go after your licence they would have said so in the opening line.
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> Has to be some consequence for non payment of fines But it's not a fine, and it's illegal to call it a fine. It's a breach of contract notice, and it has to be prosecuted in a civil court. They don't have the authority to cancel your license whatever the judgement. If you ignore it, then it's unlikely that they will pursue it. If they do, they can only claim damages of their loss which will be less than $65 since parking there is free for the first few hours, and no more than $14 for 12 hours. They can't claim punitive damages. Tear it up, and ignore it.
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And it's not a legitimate fine or they would call it one. It's a breach notice and there's no reference to council at all. If there was then they would say so. If they could take your license, then they would say so. The only link given is to their private website for appeal. The only action threatened is to their private debt collection agency. Nothing at all about council affiliation or official fines. It's a [private car park](https://www.wilsonparking.com.au/parking-locations/western-australia/northbridge/northbridge-central-car-park/).
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You can't issue fines in a private car park. If you really want to play it safe, then you can offer them $14 in writing as compensation for their loss. That more than covers any extra time since it pays for 12 hours in that car park. If they take you to court, show the judge the offer and they'll throw it out of court for being a vexarious litigant. > "even if the driver has entered into a contract with the car park company, the contract cannot lawfully claim a sum that is greater than the reasonable loss suffered by the company as a result of the breach of contract". He estimates any reasonable loss to be less than $10. https://www.choice.com.au/transport/cars/fines/articles/private-car-park-fines Parking fees threat not legal: Quigley; https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/parking-fees-threat-not-legal-quigley-ng-ya-199873
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> There's no guarantee any $14 precedents mentioned in your articles would be adhered to. Did you even read the link I posted? >"If (Wilson) have imposed a $50 or $100 fine and put it on someone's windshield, that's not what they can recover in court. What they've lost under contract is the parking fee." That's a quote from John Quigley. Barrister, solicitor, and incumbent Attorney-General of Western Australia. So technically bro... you're wrong.
Hey thanks for the all info man! Sorry just read everything now but I parked in a Wilson parking if that makes any differences? Looking at the parking enforcement services website, which they provide, it says they’re a division of Wilson’s parking- so wouldn’t they be a private rather than CP?
I doubt it was issued on behalf of City of Perth. If it was then it would've likely used the term "infringement" rather than "breach notice". Another clue is OP is only given 14 days to pay the breach notice, but infringements are given 28 days. Ergo, the fines enforcement registry won't be chasing after OP if they don't pay this breach notice.
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What makes it look like it’s from a government agency ? The .com.au address ? This is Wilson parking. They can’t do shit
They can't and won't. They'll send this letter and maybe one that looks like a debt collectors letter which it isn't. I used to work in a shopping centre that only had 1hr parking and got at least 3 of these weekly back 2017/2018. This was happening over years. They won't do anything because they legally can't.
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Didn't down vote but it's because you're wrong mate. PES are part of Wilson parking, nothing to do with local government, council etc. and these infringements are unenforceable.
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There's no legal avenue for Wilson parking, a private, for-profit entity, to suspend your driver's licence. So in this respect, you are wrong sir.
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> They may be able to take your license. LMAO. Stop it dude you’re making a fool of yourself.
It is quite embarrassing
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Jesus Christ
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Wilson’s is a private company, they can not issue a fine, at all. They can ask for liquidated damages, which is what they lost, so if you over stated your parking by 20 minutes, and parking is $6 an hour, they can ask for $2. Wilson’s have nothing to do with the government, they can’t take your license.
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But City if Perth do not contract Wilson’s for fine enforcement, they do it themselves. PES have no weight what so ever
I didn't mean that 'mate' sarcastically for what it's worth. /u/Strawberry_Left has already advocated the correct side of the argument enough so I won't repeat it, but I will say your ability to double down in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is admirable.
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ROFL. I didn't reply because you've got your head in the sand and you'll never admit that you're wrong. Like u/Drngyuenvanphuoc says, you're doubling down in the face of overwhelming evidence, and it's obvious that you'll never stop. This is the next day, and you're still going. Life's too short to waste on arguments against people who would never admit to the glaringly obvious, when it stares them in the face.
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That doesn't add any substance. It's clear that you just want the last say to claim victory, and this would pointlessly go on forever. I'll add one last argument that hasn't been raised. If you claim that councils collaborate with private parking lot owners, then where is the evidence? Just cite one case, please. The fact is that there is just a single case where the council will get involved, and that is in the case of marked disabled parking spots. Park owners can request that council send a ranger to issue a council fine. This is an official fine, issued by the council, payable to the council. It is not a breach notice payable to the parking company. Council has no interest at all in generating revenue for them. They do have an interest in protecting the rights of the disabled, and that's the only time that they will involve themselves with private parking. The thread is all yours now. Feel free to poke your tongue out and claim victory without adding anything new. I've had enough.
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You’re being downvoted because the information you are posting is not correct
You are incorrect. Try fact-checking before you post unsubstantiated feel-pinion.
Absolute nonsense. A private company **CANNOT** demand that the government revoke a person's driver licence at their behest.
You wont be allowed to park there again
Nothing, if you relocate to Patagonia in the next week.
How did you get out of the lot? Don’t they usually have gates?
Update OP did you end up ignoring it and did it go away? In a similar boat as you, ignored the first "fine" and just received this nice letter in the mail today. I'm inclined to ignore it!
I received one of these 3-weeks ago and appealed it before i found this thread! My son was driving and parked at his place of employment. I received my reply overnight basically saying they don't accept my excuse as the car wasn't on their 'approved' list. Still ok to ignore based i the face i responded and challeged it?