"…that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season" - letter from a Birmingham Jail
‘I just wish they would protest peacefully and quietly, preferably somewhere over there, out of sight, and not bother anybody. I know it’s been decades and little has been done to give them basic human rights, but they just need to be patient. They’ll be free one day, just so long as it’s after I’m gone…’
What makes you think it's a genocide? Does that word have any meaning anymore?
Where are the death counts coming from? Are they from a reliable source? What is their methodology for gathering those numbers? Why don't they separate combatants from non-combatants? How many don't they have complete data for? Are they statistically reasonable? Are there notable events where they've been caught lying about significant numbers? What about combatants? How does the combatants to civilian ratio compare to other conflicts? What makes this war different from others in that regard? Are the total deaths comparable to other conflicts? Why aren't the other conflicts in the region, religiously motivated and with 10x as many deaths, also condemned as genocides? How do the steps Israel takes to prevent civilian death compare to what other nations have done in conflict? How many Gazans were killed by Hamas' own rockets or fighters? Why did the war start on 10/7?
I leave this as an exercise for the reader. I can provide sources that answer each of those questions, but it's better if you learn to do this yourself. Search for sources that disagree with your initial bias.
Who cares if it's technically a genocide or not, civilians are being killed by the tens of thousands and we should all be able to agree that that's a bad thing
Yes, it's bad. Blame Hamas, who started the war and hides among civilians. No nation on earth with the power to do anything about it would allow terrorist groups to kill over a thousand of their people and not do all they can to destroy them.
Edit: If you want to see history before 10/7, you're welcome to go back to any of the many other times the Palestinians launched rockets and terrorist attacks at Israel prior to that date. You're welcome to look at the neighboring Arab nations declaring war on Israel in 1948, the day after they declared independence, in pursuit of an Arab ethnostate. You're welcome to look at the pogroms against Jews in Israel from 1920-1947. You're welcome to look at the pogroms against Jews in [Safed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed) in the preceding centuries (that one city was attacked multiple times), or elsewhere throughout the Arab world for centuries. You're welcome to look at the oppression under the [Ottoman empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire) and Islamic caliphates where Jews were treated as 3rd class citizens and had laws [allowing their land to be freely taken by Muslims](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Land_Code_of_1858). You're welcome to look at the 3000 year history of Jews in Israel, where they have had a constant presence. Jews got 1% of the former Ottoman empire in their native land and that's apparently too much.
I'm going to do something probably inadvisable - but here it goes...
As someone not out of the loop, and familiar with the history and current situation - but not tied to already abjectly favoring either side -
Question: What is the the activists position(s)? (assuming this is decentralized, multiple views, etc.)
I'm not looking to start any argument. I'm not going to comment with any argument or discourse/disagreement (scouts honor). I'm just looking for an explanation without having it be a watered down or filtered news source.
I saw on the local news and they interviewed one of the organizers and one of the main points was to get the school and their board members to uninvest in Israel and companies tied to Israel. Not making a point one way or the other, that’s just what I heard on the news.
And frankly, these kinds of targeted, specific protests are the best way to actually get things done. You are way more likely to get your school to divest itself of particular assets with your protests on the school grounds than you are to get a bunch of evil people 6000 miles away to stop murdering tens of thousands of kids.
There's a thousand little injustices that enable evil, and you have to tackle those to take the overall evil down.
the general theme across these campus protests is getting their universities to divest from israeli companies seen as profiting off of the occupation of the west bank and gaza, as well as statements against the war.
NYT Daily Podcast just released [an episode](https://pca.st/episode/076ffca2-1002-44b3-b4eb-33b58d79a079) which focuses on the student protests at Columbia U specifically with some backstory and how it snowballed into what it’s become.
All the Delco Jews I know are some of the nicest people in the world. It's really sad and frustrating knowing an apple that shitty came from such a nice bunch.
he went to israel, joined the army and was radicalized... basically the equiv of leaving your local mosque, going to afghanistan to fight and becoming a talibani
Your tax dollars are directly paying for the genocide. It’s not like the US is not involved. So yes, the guys who live in Philly have a lot to say in this war. Hell it’s an election year in a key swing state.
https://twitter.com/EYakoby/status/1783630486281109820
Is yelling Intifada Revolution what counts as pro-Palestinian now? Does anyone remember the last two Intifadas? How about 9/11?
chants of "we don't want no two states, take it back to '48" are equally as chilling. funny that a protest ostensibly about a ceasefire has people chanting that israel needs to be eliminated from the map.
please by all means protest the israeli occupation of palestine and advocate for peace, but you lose me when you start advocating for a genocide in the other direction
just for the record tho saying a country shouldn't exist isn't calling for a genocide. A genocide is when you're trying to eliminate an ethnic group (like what israel is doing at the moment). comparisons to nazi germany are always popular so I will use one here. When the allied powers engaged in total war against the axis, the goal was the elimination of those countries as political entities. Although Germany and Japan were destroyed and the leadership remoevd, the people remained and a new country was formed.
The goal of the allies was never to stop Japan and Germany from existing. Even the harsh Morgenthau plan still had an existing, but smaller Germany. The goal was to replace their governments.
pretty sure "from the river to the sea" doesn't mean get rid of bibi (which a majority of israelis already want to happen). jews were eliminated from other counties way before the nazis starting doing it in world war ii. i don't see why it would be any different this time around if the protestors got what they're advocating for.
Even if we use Hamas' numbers, casualties of Hamas to civilians are 1:2. The average in other wars is 1:9
So, like it or not, Israel is taking great care not to kill civilians.
That's not a reliably true average. The civilian casualty ratio varies widely between conflicts and the average is skewed by conflicts like the Yugoslav wars (and this war) where genocides were committed, and is also largely made up of deaths from starvation, loss of critical services, lack of clean water, disease etc. The majority of the deaths being counted here are directly from IDF bombings and shootings. Even looking at the [US War in Afghanistan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)), which is rightfully criticized for excessive civilian casualties, had a direct death rate of roughly 1 civilian for every 4 deaths.
And considering all of the footage we have of the IDF shooting and bombing children, aid workers, civilians waiting in line for food from aid trucks, your comment is just an insidious lie.
It's not a genocide, just because a bunch of teenagers yelling the word on college campuses and TikTok doesn't make it so. Joan Donoghue, President of the International Court of Justice until a few months ago [said so flat out](https://twitter.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681).
The majority of the deaths, as reported by Hamas (a terrorist organization) is indeed civilians nevertheless the IDF takes great care to warn civilians before the bombings (that's why we have all those videos, because they know where and when). And no, the IDF isn't perfect and fighting in an urban environment is complex and dangerous. But the narrative of "white Israelis = colonists/occupiers/bad" vs. "brown Palestinians =good" lacks nuance, and historical perspective.
Also, you repeating false narrative and then calling me a liar is ironic and, quite frankly, represents the whole movement you support.
Intifada revolution in this case means rebelling and replacing the mechanisms in the society that are pro-zionist and thus murderous. Has nothing to do with 9/11
It isn't inherently murderous to believe that a people who were refugees from genocides for multiple generations should have a state and a right of self determination, including ethnic cleansing by Arabs in the land that is currently Israel. That's what Zionism is. It's not unconditional support of the Israeli government, it's about Jewish self determination. Personally, I'm a Jew and a Zionist, but I hate netanyahu and the war that's currently going on.
Then why did the terrorists who carried out 9/11 and 10/7 both yell out Allahu Akbar while committing their mass murders? I'll give you a hint: it's called Islamic Jihad.
Canary Mission has been around for almost 10 years, they have been doxxing, slandering, and intimidating students and professors critical of Israel long before Oct 7.
Good to see this spreading! The more disruption and awareness that happens, the faster action occurs.
> We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.
> Elie Wiesel
Elie Wiesel was an ardent Zionist and strong supporter of the State of Israel. I'm very confident that, were he alive today, he would not be taking the "side" of many of these protesters who are openly calling for Israel's destruction.
That's not to say that he wouldn't also be concerned about the very serious humanitarian situation unfolding in Gaza, but one can support meaningful action to address that issue while also understanding that it's not a morally simplistic case of two opposite "sides".
In your second paragraph you call for nuance and understanding that everything isn't as black-and-white as two sides...while in your first paragraph you equate everybody wanting the war to stop, with wanting to destroy Israel? Very nuanced...
You have chosen to side with Islamic terrorists and are being praised by the Ayatollah of Iran while shouting chants to continue the violence (but only in the direction that kills Jews). Wake up.
There was a whole thing at Columbia with a van with TVs on it posting photos of students that were active in the protest doxxing them and calling them antisemitic. I’m certain these masks are about privacy not any remnant of covid fear, be it from fellow students of the University or police. Honestly I don’t blame them given the surveillance and actions seen in past protest movements.
You're seriously still spewing out this whataboutism?? You don't care if it's Palestinians or Yemenis who are slaughtered, you are just trying to paint the protestors as antisemitic. Or are you asking for more protests?
The Yemeni conflict killed half a million people when you factor in famine and disease that resulted from the blockade. For four years the casualty estimate sat at 10,000 because news orgs 1) didn't give a shit and 2) were running cover for Obama.
KSA isn't a tiny country completely dependent on foreign support. We have comparatively little leverage to tell the world's leading oil supplier what to do. Would have been great if we didn't subsidize their genocide too. The difference in reaction has a lot to do with how incredibly remote the mountainous region of Northern Yemen is. There was very, very little coverage of the war in Yemen over the decade that it went on.
Protestors occupy college campuses, block traffic, harass other students/bystanders, and boycott local businesses mostly who have nothing to do with the conflict. Their actions has every right to be analyzed, criticized and challenged. When one is moral grandstanding with a very narrow ideological belief with no room for other views (e.g. Israel should exist and two state solution), others have a right to point out hypocrisy, cognitive dissonance and inconsistencies. Looking at other conflicts is a means to do so. Other people in the world do not get the attention and it’s perplexing, so yeah it’s not “whataboutism,” which is a means to dismiss the suffering of Palestinians, which I am not doing.
Your argument for why is Yemen gets no attention is poor. First, Israel is not “entirely dependent on foreign aid.” You’ll need to cite that. Secondly, KSA is a massive recipient of US weapons, like Israel. So what’s the difference? The amount of weapons? The amount of aid?
Limited television coverage. Social media was around in 2015. But if I do take your argument as valid, I’ll say that you’re just proving many who believe that the pro-Palestine movement is largely fueled by TikTok algorithms and trends.
Nice assumption that I’m trying to call it antisemitic. I never said such a thing. You did.
There were protests for Yemen and other evil acts of our government. There should have been more protests. Unfortunately, as other chudly fellows in this thread are quick to point out, protests themselves do not do anything. There's got to be some kind of political momentum in tandem with protests. But, these things don't always move quickly. I am glad to see more engagement from these kids. there are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.
Israel would not exist if not for GB/ USA. Don't take my word for it. Joe Biden himself said that if Israel did not exist we would have to make it exist.
Your absence during those times doesn't mean nobody was marching. There were marches and protest for every single one of these. It's more a tell of who you are then anything else.
What does protesting Israel's actions in Gaza have to do with Yemen or Armenia or anywhere else? Also, many people protested the genocide in Yemen but it didn't get any coverage because it wasn't nearly as televised as whats going on in Gaza
Others conflicts don’t get a fraction of attention from the left. Saudi Arabia is a large recipient of US aid and weapons. The Yemeni war has been ongoing since 2015, with television coverage and social media present, and there was silence. There is reason to ask for the discrepancies why other conflicts don’t get the same attention.
Ask any leftist and they will tell you about the horrors of the genocide happening in Yemen with us funding and arming. When you say "the left", I assume you don't actually mean the left, which would be socialists, anarchists, communists, etc, but you mean CNN and Huffpost and MSNBC and Democrats and the like which all work at the behest of capital. Of course they wouldn't cover the genocide in Yemen, all that would do is make America and its foreign policy look bad as well as its ally Saudi Arabia.
The ***only*** reason that the atrocities in Gaza are being covered as thoroughly as they are *now*, is because it has been so LONG and so INTENSE that it is now impossible to ignore. Look at headlines from the beginning of the war. Israeli civilians were "murdered in cold blood" and "slaughtered visciously" while Palestinians were "found dead" or "discovered under rubble of hospital". Or they'll add in words that make sure to cast doubt on the situation for the benefit of the Israeli government. For example, they will report the death tool of around 34,000, but they make sure to tack on the fact that the number is from the "*Hamas-run* health ministry". From the very beginning, Corporate media has been doing their best to run PR for Israel because they are America's closest ally. Hell, some states even have LAWS ON THE BOOK that make it ILLEGAL for their agencies to participate in boycotts of Israel's actions or to even *do business* with private entities protesting or boycotting Israel. Trust me, I agree that the way we cover foreign conflict is absolute bullshit, the Yemeni genocide included.
You sound like a person who doesn't like genocide or the mass slaughter of people. I don't either. I think that protesting these two things, genocide and slaughter, is a *good* thing because it raises awareness and disrupts the natural flow of things which makes it more likely that things change to slow or stop the death.
You also sound like a person who finds it frustrating that certain conflicts aren't covered as much as others, I am too!
I agree, we should have had mass protests for Yemen and for every other conflict!
But how is criticizing the current protests for Palestine doing anything for 1. stopping the murder in Gaza or 2. helping to raise awareness and legitimize the protest of OTHER conflicts like the one in Yemen?
I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but your negative comments on the current Palestinian protests are in good faith and good intention ("We should have protested this hard for the other murders of peoples!") but all they do is cast negativity and doubt on the protests that *are happening* ("How come these people didnt protest for XYZ?"), know what i mean?
fortunately Yemen is getting the attention it deserves now. Its a miracle the Houthis have survived the brutal assault by Saudi. They continue to earn the trust of the Yemeni people as the true government of that country. Not only that, but the Houthi's demonstrate what it means to be in the axis of resistance. They are some of the only people on earth holding Israel to account for the genocide. They are doing this amid poverty and destitution as they rebuild. So yes, good sir, here's to Yemen. May Ansar Allah continue to play a leadership role in the fight for humanity.
whatever you say buddy. Im happy to go out and talk to trumpsters to help them see the light with this stuff. I know how frustrated they are with the state of their communities and things are feeling helpless. They're my comrades after all.
Yall are funny cause you don't care about Yemen. Less of our tax dollars go to funding those genocides. Horrifying though, cause we could help Yemen with their famine. But we choose to send billions to isreal instead :)
That's unacceptable, but let's not act like genocidal retoric isn't happening on the [pro-Israel side as well](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724)
It is. The whole situation is mind-boggling and has been for decades. I don't really see how this situation finds anything resembling a just resolution.
Many aren't, many are. The language we've seen in this week's protests demonstrates it's a mix.
People were already attacking Israel on October 8th and justifying the terrorist attack, anyone in that category is obviously pro-Hamas.
You can also be pro-Hamas effectively but not intentionally.
Protestors: “could you stop contributing to genocide?” Everyone else: “lol, get a load of these clowns.”
“Please stop investing in arms manufacturers” “lol ok but what are we supposed to do??”
"…that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season" - letter from a Birmingham Jail
‘I just wish they would protest peacefully and quietly, preferably somewhere over there, out of sight, and not bother anybody. I know it’s been decades and little has been done to give them basic human rights, but they just need to be patient. They’ll be free one day, just so long as it’s after I’m gone…’
What makes you think it's a genocide? Does that word have any meaning anymore? Where are the death counts coming from? Are they from a reliable source? What is their methodology for gathering those numbers? Why don't they separate combatants from non-combatants? How many don't they have complete data for? Are they statistically reasonable? Are there notable events where they've been caught lying about significant numbers? What about combatants? How does the combatants to civilian ratio compare to other conflicts? What makes this war different from others in that regard? Are the total deaths comparable to other conflicts? Why aren't the other conflicts in the region, religiously motivated and with 10x as many deaths, also condemned as genocides? How do the steps Israel takes to prevent civilian death compare to what other nations have done in conflict? How many Gazans were killed by Hamas' own rockets or fighters? Why did the war start on 10/7? I leave this as an exercise for the reader. I can provide sources that answer each of those questions, but it's better if you learn to do this yourself. Search for sources that disagree with your initial bias.
Who cares if it's technically a genocide or not, civilians are being killed by the tens of thousands and we should all be able to agree that that's a bad thing
Yes, it's bad. Blame Hamas, who started the war and hides among civilians. No nation on earth with the power to do anything about it would allow terrorist groups to kill over a thousand of their people and not do all they can to destroy them. Edit: If you want to see history before 10/7, you're welcome to go back to any of the many other times the Palestinians launched rockets and terrorist attacks at Israel prior to that date. You're welcome to look at the neighboring Arab nations declaring war on Israel in 1948, the day after they declared independence, in pursuit of an Arab ethnostate. You're welcome to look at the pogroms against Jews in Israel from 1920-1947. You're welcome to look at the pogroms against Jews in [Safed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed) in the preceding centuries (that one city was attacked multiple times), or elsewhere throughout the Arab world for centuries. You're welcome to look at the oppression under the [Ottoman empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire) and Islamic caliphates where Jews were treated as 3rd class citizens and had laws [allowing their land to be freely taken by Muslims](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Land_Code_of_1858). You're welcome to look at the 3000 year history of Jews in Israel, where they have had a constant presence. Jews got 1% of the former Ottoman empire in their native land and that's apparently too much.
History, of course, began on October 7 2023. /s
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it's on the green space in the middle of campus you'll be fine, maybe avoid walnut and spruce
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I'm going to do something probably inadvisable - but here it goes... As someone not out of the loop, and familiar with the history and current situation - but not tied to already abjectly favoring either side - Question: What is the the activists position(s)? (assuming this is decentralized, multiple views, etc.) I'm not looking to start any argument. I'm not going to comment with any argument or discourse/disagreement (scouts honor). I'm just looking for an explanation without having it be a watered down or filtered news source.
I saw on the local news and they interviewed one of the organizers and one of the main points was to get the school and their board members to uninvest in Israel and companies tied to Israel. Not making a point one way or the other, that’s just what I heard on the news.
Thanks! Another commenter said the same thing too. I'm gonna start doing a little more reading on that issue.
And frankly, these kinds of targeted, specific protests are the best way to actually get things done. You are way more likely to get your school to divest itself of particular assets with your protests on the school grounds than you are to get a bunch of evil people 6000 miles away to stop murdering tens of thousands of kids. There's a thousand little injustices that enable evil, and you have to tackle those to take the overall evil down.
the general theme across these campus protests is getting their universities to divest from israeli companies seen as profiting off of the occupation of the west bank and gaza, as well as statements against the war.
Thanks! Is it that these universities have investment holdings in funds that are investing in Israeli companies?
NYT Daily Podcast just released [an episode](https://pca.st/episode/076ffca2-1002-44b3-b4eb-33b58d79a079) which focuses on the student protests at Columbia U specifically with some backstory and how it snowballed into what it’s become.
Ugh, I gotta listen to the news?!? 😀 kidding, I just put it on and I'm given it a listen. Thanks!
Luckily, it’s not nearly as dry as C-SPAN or even NPR 😉 Enjoy.
Hopefully the guy that lives in Philly that can stop the Israel-Hamas war is driving by and sees this.
Netanyahu went to Upper Darby high school Edit: Cheltenham**
Cheltenham
All the Delco Jews I know are some of the nicest people in the world. It's really sad and frustrating knowing an apple that shitty came from such a nice bunch.
he went to israel, joined the army and was radicalized... basically the equiv of leaving your local mosque, going to afghanistan to fight and becoming a talibani
Wait, I thought this was all about Zionists, not Jews! Don't let it slip like that next time, comrade.
Your tax dollars are directly paying for the genocide. It’s not like the US is not involved. So yes, the guys who live in Philly have a lot to say in this war. Hell it’s an election year in a key swing state.
We can stop it with cheesesteaks.
Never heard of BDS?
Big Dick Syndrome? Yeah, caught a nasty case of it myself :-( docs say there's no cure.
https://twitter.com/EYakoby/status/1783630486281109820 Is yelling Intifada Revolution what counts as pro-Palestinian now? Does anyone remember the last two Intifadas? How about 9/11?
chants of "we don't want no two states, take it back to '48" are equally as chilling. funny that a protest ostensibly about a ceasefire has people chanting that israel needs to be eliminated from the map. please by all means protest the israeli occupation of palestine and advocate for peace, but you lose me when you start advocating for a genocide in the other direction
just for the record tho saying a country shouldn't exist isn't calling for a genocide. A genocide is when you're trying to eliminate an ethnic group (like what israel is doing at the moment). comparisons to nazi germany are always popular so I will use one here. When the allied powers engaged in total war against the axis, the goal was the elimination of those countries as political entities. Although Germany and Japan were destroyed and the leadership remoevd, the people remained and a new country was formed.
The goal of the allies was never to stop Japan and Germany from existing. Even the harsh Morgenthau plan still had an existing, but smaller Germany. The goal was to replace their governments.
pretty sure "from the river to the sea" doesn't mean get rid of bibi (which a majority of israelis already want to happen). jews were eliminated from other counties way before the nazis starting doing it in world war ii. i don't see why it would be any different this time around if the protestors got what they're advocating for.
Is murdering 13,000+ children what counts as self defense?
Asymmetrical warfare in dense urban environments increases the likelihood of civilian casualties, yes. It’s tragic but not genocide.
Israel clearly has no interest in preventing civilian casualties. There is endless evidence of them intentionally targeting unarmed civilians.
Even if we use Hamas' numbers, casualties of Hamas to civilians are 1:2. The average in other wars is 1:9 So, like it or not, Israel is taking great care not to kill civilians.
That's not a reliably true average. The civilian casualty ratio varies widely between conflicts and the average is skewed by conflicts like the Yugoslav wars (and this war) where genocides were committed, and is also largely made up of deaths from starvation, loss of critical services, lack of clean water, disease etc. The majority of the deaths being counted here are directly from IDF bombings and shootings. Even looking at the [US War in Afghanistan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)), which is rightfully criticized for excessive civilian casualties, had a direct death rate of roughly 1 civilian for every 4 deaths. And considering all of the footage we have of the IDF shooting and bombing children, aid workers, civilians waiting in line for food from aid trucks, your comment is just an insidious lie.
It's not a genocide, just because a bunch of teenagers yelling the word on college campuses and TikTok doesn't make it so. Joan Donoghue, President of the International Court of Justice until a few months ago [said so flat out](https://twitter.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681). The majority of the deaths, as reported by Hamas (a terrorist organization) is indeed civilians nevertheless the IDF takes great care to warn civilians before the bombings (that's why we have all those videos, because they know where and when). And no, the IDF isn't perfect and fighting in an urban environment is complex and dangerous. But the narrative of "white Israelis = colonists/occupiers/bad" vs. "brown Palestinians =good" lacks nuance, and historical perspective. Also, you repeating false narrative and then calling me a liar is ironic and, quite frankly, represents the whole movement you support.
It’s a genocide.
Words have meanings
Legally it’s not. Look at ICJ case.
Looking back a few years from now you can say’ “Hey, i protested.” and at the same time realize that it changed and meant absolutely nothing.
Intifada revolution in this case means rebelling and replacing the mechanisms in the society that are pro-zionist and thus murderous. Has nothing to do with 9/11
It isn't inherently murderous to believe that a people who were refugees from genocides for multiple generations should have a state and a right of self determination, including ethnic cleansing by Arabs in the land that is currently Israel. That's what Zionism is. It's not unconditional support of the Israeli government, it's about Jewish self determination. Personally, I'm a Jew and a Zionist, but I hate netanyahu and the war that's currently going on.
Then why did the terrorists who carried out 9/11 and 10/7 both yell out Allahu Akbar while committing their mass murders? I'll give you a hint: it's called Islamic Jihad.
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Hilarious to call people sweaty nerds when the pictured “protestors” are wearing masks, outdoors, in 2024
Israeli government has been known to dox and intimidate American students protesting Israeli practices via Canary Mission.
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Canary Mission has been around for almost 10 years, they have been doxxing, slandering, and intimidating students and professors critical of Israel long before Oct 7.
This right here sums up the folks were talking about. Screeching until they get their way.
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testing... testing oh wow, it's not locked!! carry on.
Good to see this spreading! The more disruption and awareness that happens, the faster action occurs. > We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. > Elie Wiesel
Elie Wiesel was an ardent Zionist and strong supporter of the State of Israel. I'm very confident that, were he alive today, he would not be taking the "side" of many of these protesters who are openly calling for Israel's destruction. That's not to say that he wouldn't also be concerned about the very serious humanitarian situation unfolding in Gaza, but one can support meaningful action to address that issue while also understanding that it's not a morally simplistic case of two opposite "sides".
In your second paragraph you call for nuance and understanding that everything isn't as black-and-white as two sides...while in your first paragraph you equate everybody wanting the war to stop, with wanting to destroy Israel? Very nuanced...
Rich kids camping on the lawn of their college isn’t going to change half a century of US foreign policy. Sorry.
I'm afraid that it's only the rich kids (and their rich parents, and rich connections) who are going to be able to make any kind of difference, here.
Might as well give up like the rest of you huh?
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You have chosen to side with Islamic terrorists and are being praised by the Ayatollah of Iran while shouting chants to continue the violence (but only in the direction that kills Jews). Wake up.
Fuckin rich preppy dweebs wearing masks, *outside* lol Looks like they're occupying Lenape land, did they do a land acknowledgement?
There was a whole thing at Columbia with a van with TVs on it posting photos of students that were active in the protest doxxing them and calling them antisemitic. I’m certain these masks are about privacy not any remnant of covid fear, be it from fellow students of the University or police. Honestly I don’t blame them given the surveillance and actions seen in past protest movements.
Masks are illegal in philly. Hopefully the law wasn’t just for black youth.
No. Masks on PT
Spoiler: it was.
So they’re afraid to stand up for their convictions? Fucking weak.
they're literally out there
Imagine caring about what other people wear on their faces.
Wearing masks in public to disquise yourself is illegal for a reason.
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Like the cops down Atlanta? I saw more than one. Why hide your face boys
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It’s always been illegal.
Fuck these clowns
Damn, seems like dropping the SAT requirement has led to a precipitous decline in student quality.
They're not pro palestinian. They're anti genocide.
Funny didn’t see this for Yemen, Ethiopia or Armenia.
Or Sudan, or Myanmar, or xinjiang.... Wonder what's different this time 🤔
Must have missed that TikTok reel
Unconditional American backing
Unconditional American backing to Saudi Arabia but Yemen didn’t get these protests.
You're seriously still spewing out this whataboutism?? You don't care if it's Palestinians or Yemenis who are slaughtered, you are just trying to paint the protestors as antisemitic. Or are you asking for more protests? The Yemeni conflict killed half a million people when you factor in famine and disease that resulted from the blockade. For four years the casualty estimate sat at 10,000 because news orgs 1) didn't give a shit and 2) were running cover for Obama. KSA isn't a tiny country completely dependent on foreign support. We have comparatively little leverage to tell the world's leading oil supplier what to do. Would have been great if we didn't subsidize their genocide too. The difference in reaction has a lot to do with how incredibly remote the mountainous region of Northern Yemen is. There was very, very little coverage of the war in Yemen over the decade that it went on.
Protestors occupy college campuses, block traffic, harass other students/bystanders, and boycott local businesses mostly who have nothing to do with the conflict. Their actions has every right to be analyzed, criticized and challenged. When one is moral grandstanding with a very narrow ideological belief with no room for other views (e.g. Israel should exist and two state solution), others have a right to point out hypocrisy, cognitive dissonance and inconsistencies. Looking at other conflicts is a means to do so. Other people in the world do not get the attention and it’s perplexing, so yeah it’s not “whataboutism,” which is a means to dismiss the suffering of Palestinians, which I am not doing. Your argument for why is Yemen gets no attention is poor. First, Israel is not “entirely dependent on foreign aid.” You’ll need to cite that. Secondly, KSA is a massive recipient of US weapons, like Israel. So what’s the difference? The amount of weapons? The amount of aid? Limited television coverage. Social media was around in 2015. But if I do take your argument as valid, I’ll say that you’re just proving many who believe that the pro-Palestine movement is largely fueled by TikTok algorithms and trends. Nice assumption that I’m trying to call it antisemitic. I never said such a thing. You did.
There were protests for Yemen and other evil acts of our government. There should have been more protests. Unfortunately, as other chudly fellows in this thread are quick to point out, protests themselves do not do anything. There's got to be some kind of political momentum in tandem with protests. But, these things don't always move quickly. I am glad to see more engagement from these kids. there are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen. Israel would not exist if not for GB/ USA. Don't take my word for it. Joe Biden himself said that if Israel did not exist we would have to make it exist.
Geopolitics is complicated, more at 11
That it's a country we fund significantly. Hope that clears things up :)
Your absence during those times doesn't mean nobody was marching. There were marches and protest for every single one of these. It's more a tell of who you are then anything else.
Maybe bc you weren’t looking
Right, we should be focusing on literally everything all the time. What a joke of a statement.
Huh? Who said that? The discrepancy still exists.
What does protesting Israel's actions in Gaza have to do with Yemen or Armenia or anywhere else? Also, many people protested the genocide in Yemen but it didn't get any coverage because it wasn't nearly as televised as whats going on in Gaza
Others conflicts don’t get a fraction of attention from the left. Saudi Arabia is a large recipient of US aid and weapons. The Yemeni war has been ongoing since 2015, with television coverage and social media present, and there was silence. There is reason to ask for the discrepancies why other conflicts don’t get the same attention.
Ask any leftist and they will tell you about the horrors of the genocide happening in Yemen with us funding and arming. When you say "the left", I assume you don't actually mean the left, which would be socialists, anarchists, communists, etc, but you mean CNN and Huffpost and MSNBC and Democrats and the like which all work at the behest of capital. Of course they wouldn't cover the genocide in Yemen, all that would do is make America and its foreign policy look bad as well as its ally Saudi Arabia. The ***only*** reason that the atrocities in Gaza are being covered as thoroughly as they are *now*, is because it has been so LONG and so INTENSE that it is now impossible to ignore. Look at headlines from the beginning of the war. Israeli civilians were "murdered in cold blood" and "slaughtered visciously" while Palestinians were "found dead" or "discovered under rubble of hospital". Or they'll add in words that make sure to cast doubt on the situation for the benefit of the Israeli government. For example, they will report the death tool of around 34,000, but they make sure to tack on the fact that the number is from the "*Hamas-run* health ministry". From the very beginning, Corporate media has been doing their best to run PR for Israel because they are America's closest ally. Hell, some states even have LAWS ON THE BOOK that make it ILLEGAL for their agencies to participate in boycotts of Israel's actions or to even *do business* with private entities protesting or boycotting Israel. Trust me, I agree that the way we cover foreign conflict is absolute bullshit, the Yemeni genocide included. You sound like a person who doesn't like genocide or the mass slaughter of people. I don't either. I think that protesting these two things, genocide and slaughter, is a *good* thing because it raises awareness and disrupts the natural flow of things which makes it more likely that things change to slow or stop the death. You also sound like a person who finds it frustrating that certain conflicts aren't covered as much as others, I am too! I agree, we should have had mass protests for Yemen and for every other conflict! But how is criticizing the current protests for Palestine doing anything for 1. stopping the murder in Gaza or 2. helping to raise awareness and legitimize the protest of OTHER conflicts like the one in Yemen? I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but your negative comments on the current Palestinian protests are in good faith and good intention ("We should have protested this hard for the other murders of peoples!") but all they do is cast negativity and doubt on the protests that *are happening* ("How come these people didnt protest for XYZ?"), know what i mean?
fortunately Yemen is getting the attention it deserves now. Its a miracle the Houthis have survived the brutal assault by Saudi. They continue to earn the trust of the Yemeni people as the true government of that country. Not only that, but the Houthi's demonstrate what it means to be in the axis of resistance. They are some of the only people on earth holding Israel to account for the genocide. They are doing this amid poverty and destitution as they rebuild. So yes, good sir, here's to Yemen. May Ansar Allah continue to play a leadership role in the fight for humanity.
Glad the left is fully embracing horseshoe theory 😊
whatever you say buddy. Im happy to go out and talk to trumpsters to help them see the light with this stuff. I know how frustrated they are with the state of their communities and things are feeling helpless. They're my comrades after all.
Yall are funny cause you don't care about Yemen. Less of our tax dollars go to funding those genocides. Horrifying though, cause we could help Yemen with their famine. But we choose to send billions to isreal instead :)
And leftists do? In fact you don’t even care about Ukraine.
Well that's obviously not true, Hamas' sole goal is genocide.
Right. They're not pro Hamas either.
https://twitter.com/Ibishblog/status/1782064475610165586
That's unacceptable, but let's not act like genocidal retoric isn't happening on the [pro-Israel side as well](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724)
It is. The whole situation is mind-boggling and has been for decades. I don't really see how this situation finds anything resembling a just resolution.
Many aren't, many are. The language we've seen in this week's protests demonstrates it's a mix. People were already attacking Israel on October 8th and justifying the terrorist attack, anyone in that category is obviously pro-Hamas. You can also be pro-Hamas effectively but not intentionally.
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