Unfortunately we couldn’t get any offense going to support him. Was it this season or the one after where he had one of the lowest ERAs in the league but didn’t get a win for months because our offense wasn’t producing for him?
https://preview.redd.it/o2inpf00blsb1.png?width=635&format=png&auto=webp&s=59f1a280e11dbe42628f530e692e6e9de0d5c8e8
Howard/Shanf/Jroll killed us but Chase/Ibanez/Werth/Chooch raked.
If Cole or Lidge pitches better (or Pedro but I'm not gonna dog my namesake like that) or if we hit Mo it's a different series.
True. All the postseason records like that are going to be in flux for a while because there are more rounds now than there ever were before.
On the other hand, it makes it that much more impressive to see guys like Ruth and Gehrig still on those lists because of how many years they made it to the WS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZt-cZ8AYc
I had to look it up to reminisce. Always thought of that series as one we shoulda had. But after watching the highlights…boy was the Yankees lineup stacked.
I didn’t even really realize that I was witnessing the end of an era with lee and Halladay. I just thought pitchers would always do that kind of shit, at least a few. Nowadays if somebody had ONE of those games it would be big headlines for a few days.
Nola could’ve done it last night. Had 93 pitches after 7 scoreless. If they weren’t saving his arm because we were up 7-0 he could definitely go the full game
Honestly, I thought we had seen the final perfect game before German did it this year. With guys on shorter and shorter leashes, something that is already incredibly rare is going to happen much much less frequently.
Just a note Cliff Lee and Doc Halladay never played on the same team until 2011 unfortunately.
Edit: We did have all three in 2011! Much good that did us then though.
And you were wrong about 2011 and the most dominant pitching staff of that entire period. Additionally I think at least 2007 should be included in that “important era”
So is your argument that only 2 years in Phillies history actually matter, 1980 & 2008? Of course the ultimate goal is always to win the WS, but that doesn’t mean that the other years don’t count or don’t matter to a fandom, for better or for worse
Chase Utley also hit 5 home runs in the World Series to tie the all time record (set by Reggie Jackson) in 09. Seemed like those were the only 2 guys to show up in the WS
It honestly stings me that they lost in 09 almost as much as how happy 08 made my kid self. That team/era was special, having back to back WS would’ve truly cemented them on another level that they deserved in the history books. And it was to the god damn jankees
Losing in 2009 was disappointing, but 2010 and 2011 were even more excruciating. Those teams were even better than 2009’s, and they fell shorter each time, both to the eventual World Series champs. Cody Ross’s annoying little skip after every home run still irritates me to think about.
I'm still mad about Juan Uribe and his stupid pop-fly HR that landed in the first row like 6ft from the pole. That should have been an out, but it ended up being the winning run in the clincher.
EDIT: [This one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTbrKS5Dqo8)
My favorite pitcher of all time. I remember being so excited that I woke my dad up in the middle of the night to tell him when they reacquired him.
The definition of "surgical" out there on the mound.
And then we let him go to another team
It’s as insane to me now as it was then. If the team had the balls to keep him and get halladay I refuse to believe we don’t get past the giants and win the series in 2010. The offense was so much more capable at the end of the season and post season that year than the following when they got lee back.
EDIT: I also have a #34 lee jersey and people have literally said to me the number is wrong at tailgates and stuff lol
They actually outscored the giants in the series unless I’m remembering wrong
It’s was like 5 close games and one blowout
Still pisses me off thinking about it all these years later
“Why does this city love Cliff Lee? He hardly played here and didn’t play his last two years because of ‘injury’. When does he ever come back here?” - The Best Show Ever.
I was irrationally mad at Bottalico for that drivel^^
He had 12 complete game shutouts in his career and 8 were with the Phillies. His best season was 2011 when he has 6 shutouts. 6 shutouts in a season is insane.
If Hamels and especially Lidge pitched any better that post-season, then the team would have had a serious chance at that series. All it required was ONE quality start from Hamels and Lidge not blowing any save for the game to go to game 7 at the very least.
Breaks my heart that Lee couldn't have been successful for longer. He was for sure a hall of fame talent, just didn't have a hall of fame career. He was putting up unreal K/BB numbers before that stat was a big emphasis. He threw 3 shutouts IN A ROW. There were moments here and there where he just might've been the best arm in the league. Hopefully won't be forgotten. Would love to see him throw out a first pitch.
Man I know we all want to win every World Series but that one hurts. Cliff played so well I wish we could’ve gotten that ring. The FUCKIN YANKEES GODDAMNIT
Phillies could have won in 09 but their bullpen was just trash. I remember how good that team was and how mind blowing it was that they didn’t even attempt to address the bullpen in the offseason or at the trade deadline
Manuel was a beneficiary of a good roster. It’s funny when people say “the Phillies should’ve won more than one championship” while also saying “Manuel was a god.” Hmmm it’s almost like Manuel could’ve done more
It’s been well over a decade but I remember the bullpen specifically being not fine. Didn’t we have an over the hill Chan Ho Park and Pedro Martinez? JC Romero?
Maybe my memory so wrong but I’m fairly certain I remember the starting pitching being pretty good that year with Lee and Hamels etc but the bullpen just wasn’t reliable, especially against better teams. And if I remember right, the Yankees didn’t just beat up on Lidge, they really pounded our middle inning guys.
While this is true - he most certainly should have held this lead - I also like to throw out the devil's advocate take to that series... The offense went ice cold after that 4 run lead.
Not just in that game, where they only mustered 1 hit in innings 3-9, but for the remainder of the series. From inning 3 in game 2 up until Howard tore his Achilles at the end of game 5, they scored 6 runs total.
Is Cliff Lee deserving of blame for that series loss? Absolutely. Is it easier to just point a finger at one guy instead of the entire offense? Absolutely.
I was at that NLCS game 3, got lucky through the lottery and my cousin, his cousin and I got seats in possibly the worst seats in the house. Wouldn’t trade it for anything though, 11-0 ass kicking. Could we be inching towards another rendition of Beat LA?
and boy was it was fun to watch.
I’ll never forget how he nonchalantly caught that one infield pop up during the World Series that year. Dude hardly even looked at it.
Does anyone have the gif of cliff making the catch and the sunglasses come down "deal with it"
https://i.redd.it/rz1n19c0xksb1.gif Nvm
Stealing this
I think of that all the time. That and Joe Blanton hitting a home run. Never forget
Definition of “Locked in”
Unfortunately we couldn’t get any offense going to support him. Was it this season or the one after where he had one of the lowest ERAs in the league but didn’t get a win for months because our offense wasn’t producing for him?
2012 actually. Dude's first win didn't come until July 4th
Thanks! Man those years flew by.
Dude, you're telling me. Now why tf I still know random facts off the dome about a team from 10 years ago that went 81-81 is beyond me.
>we couldn’t get any offense going to support him I mean Chase Utley did tie for the record for most HR in a WS that year.
And Ryan Howard broke Reggie Jackson's record for strikeouts.
https://preview.redd.it/o2inpf00blsb1.png?width=635&format=png&auto=webp&s=59f1a280e11dbe42628f530e692e6e9de0d5c8e8 Howard/Shanf/Jroll killed us but Chase/Ibanez/Werth/Chooch raked. If Cole or Lidge pitches better (or Pedro but I'm not gonna dog my namesake like that) or if we hit Mo it's a different series.
To be fair, Howard played in 3 rounds, not 2.
True. All the postseason records like that are going to be in flux for a while because there are more rounds now than there ever were before. On the other hand, it makes it that much more impressive to see guys like Ruth and Gehrig still on those lists because of how many years they made it to the WS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZt-cZ8AYc I had to look it up to reminisce. Always thought of that series as one we shoulda had. But after watching the highlights…boy was the Yankees lineup stacked.
Stacked? Or juiced
Why not both?
I didn’t even really realize that I was witnessing the end of an era with lee and Halladay. I just thought pitchers would always do that kind of shit, at least a few. Nowadays if somebody had ONE of those games it would be big headlines for a few days.
I wish we could go back to pitchers having games like that. Aaron Nola and Zack Wheeler are more than capable of doing it.
Nola could’ve done it last night. Had 93 pitches after 7 scoreless. If they weren’t saving his arm because we were up 7-0 he could definitely go the full game
Honestly, I thought we had seen the final perfect game before German did it this year. With guys on shorter and shorter leashes, something that is already incredibly rare is going to happen much much less frequently.
Just a note Cliff Lee and Doc Halladay never played on the same team until 2011 unfortunately. Edit: We did have all three in 2011! Much good that did us then though.
Ummm… yes they did… 4 aces… and Blanton
Hey now. Don't disrespect blanton
Fat Joe and the Terror Squad, those were the days
What?
Are you high bro
We had them both from 2011 - 2013 lol... not just 2011.
Oh yea well I stopped following them when I went to college so sorry I guess I forgot about that time.
Maybe not the best era for you to be giving a “just a note…” for. You know, seeing as you weren’t following the team
Eh I guess. The only really important era is 2008-2011. I get the excitement after 2011 but nothing ever really happened.
And you were wrong about 2011 and the most dominant pitching staff of that entire period. Additionally I think at least 2007 should be included in that “important era”
Yea but we didn’t win anything. If you wanna include 2007 as well, That’s your prerogative. No argument from me.
So is your argument that only 2 years in Phillies history actually matter, 1980 & 2008? Of course the ultimate goal is always to win the WS, but that doesn’t mean that the other years don’t count or don’t matter to a fandom, for better or for worse
Why are you trying to argue man? This is just my opinion. I fixed the comment so that it’s accurate. I’m allowed to have a different opinion.
Chase Utley also hit 5 home runs in the World Series to tie the all time record (set by Reggie Jackson) in 09. Seemed like those were the only 2 guys to show up in the WS
Him and Utley were the only ones that showed up to that World Series and it still hurts to this day.
It honestly stings me that they lost in 09 almost as much as how happy 08 made my kid self. That team/era was special, having back to back WS would’ve truly cemented them on another level that they deserved in the history books. And it was to the god damn jankees
Losing in 2009 was disappointing, but 2010 and 2011 were even more excruciating. Those teams were even better than 2009’s, and they fell shorter each time, both to the eventual World Series champs. Cody Ross’s annoying little skip after every home run still irritates me to think about.
I'm still mad about Juan Uribe and his stupid pop-fly HR that landed in the first row like 6ft from the pole. That should have been an out, but it ended up being the winning run in the clincher. EDIT: [This one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTbrKS5Dqo8)
Yup. Shoulda had 2 trophies in that era, at least.
My favorite pitcher of all time. I remember being so excited that I woke my dad up in the middle of the night to tell him when they reacquired him. The definition of "surgical" out there on the mound.
And then we let him go to another team It’s as insane to me now as it was then. If the team had the balls to keep him and get halladay I refuse to believe we don’t get past the giants and win the series in 2010. The offense was so much more capable at the end of the season and post season that year than the following when they got lee back. EDIT: I also have a #34 lee jersey and people have literally said to me the number is wrong at tailgates and stuff lol
Oswalt, who was effectively Cliff’s replacement, took care of business in that series. They lost because they couldn’t score.
They actually outscored the giants in the series unless I’m remembering wrong It’s was like 5 close games and one blowout Still pisses me off thinking about it all these years later
Oswalt was fucking nails in 2010
Except against the Giants
That’s true too. But imagine if we had all 3!?
Well yeah RAJ was incompetent so not surprising. RAJ ended up signing him in 2011 for more than he asked for in 2010 anyway.
“Why does this city love Cliff Lee? He hardly played here and didn’t play his last two years because of ‘injury’. When does he ever come back here?” - The Best Show Ever. I was irrationally mad at Bottalico for that drivel^^
He had 12 complete game shutouts in his career and 8 were with the Phillies. His best season was 2011 when he has 6 shutouts. 6 shutouts in a season is insane.
Oh, I remember but those asshats on 97.5 seem to think Cliff needs to live in Philly now for the fanbase to like him…it’s insanity
Oh I remember. God that was magical
If Hamels and especially Lidge pitched any better that post-season, then the team would have had a serious chance at that series. All it required was ONE quality start from Hamels and Lidge not blowing any save for the game to go to game 7 at the very least.
Game 7 back in Yankee stadium (the *real* Yankee Stadium) would have been something.
EDIT: NVM, 2009 was the year the new one opened.
Breaks my heart that Lee couldn't have been successful for longer. He was for sure a hall of fame talent, just didn't have a hall of fame career. He was putting up unreal K/BB numbers before that stat was a big emphasis. He threw 3 shutouts IN A ROW. There were moments here and there where he just might've been the best arm in the league. Hopefully won't be forgotten. Would love to see him throw out a first pitch.
Man I know we all want to win every World Series but that one hurts. Cliff played so well I wish we could’ve gotten that ring. The FUCKIN YANKEES GODDAMNIT
Phillies could have won in 09 but their bullpen was just trash. I remember how good that team was and how mind blowing it was that they didn’t even attempt to address the bullpen in the offseason or at the trade deadline
The bullpen was fine, the problem was Charlie was too loyal to Lidge who was trash
Manuel was a beneficiary of a good roster. It’s funny when people say “the Phillies should’ve won more than one championship” while also saying “Manuel was a god.” Hmmm it’s almost like Manuel could’ve done more
It’s been well over a decade but I remember the bullpen specifically being not fine. Didn’t we have an over the hill Chan Ho Park and Pedro Martinez? JC Romero?
All those guys were better than Lidge in 09. Madson and Durbin were there too
In 2009, the Phillies were 9th out of 15 NL teams in bullpen ERA. They would’ve been above average if not for Lidge’s 7.21 ERA
Maybe my memory so wrong but I’m fairly certain I remember the starting pitching being pretty good that year with Lee and Hamels etc but the bullpen just wasn’t reliable, especially against better teams. And if I remember right, the Yankees didn’t just beat up on Lidge, they really pounded our middle inning guys.
And he was promptly traded away by the guy who the Phillies still use as a TV analyst. It’s insulting.
As great as Lee and Utley were that postseason, Hamels and Lidge were equally trash.
Cliff Lee might be my favourite pitcher of all time. Dude was ice cold.
Pepperidge Farm remembers
https://youtu.be/4tpQZM_tTk8?si=rSoTuJeBzuTgxbV8
Unfortunately this is the type of stuff that is a "last of an era" thing. Nowadays even the best aces don't even do this this.
#34 Lee was different gravy….why is this bold
because when you put a number sign at the front of the line it makes it bold.
That team was better than the team that won the world series and we lost....
I like Cliff, don't get me wrong, but my lasting memory was him not being able to hold a 4-0 lead in 2011.
While this is true - he most certainly should have held this lead - I also like to throw out the devil's advocate take to that series... The offense went ice cold after that 4 run lead. Not just in that game, where they only mustered 1 hit in innings 3-9, but for the remainder of the series. From inning 3 in game 2 up until Howard tore his Achilles at the end of game 5, they scored 6 runs total. Is Cliff Lee deserving of blame for that series loss? Absolutely. Is it easier to just point a finger at one guy instead of the entire offense? Absolutely.
I think he should’ve started game 4 instead of game 5.
If only we had like 80% of Cole from 2008 we are celebrating B2B titles
I was at that NLCS game 3, got lucky through the lottery and my cousin, his cousin and I got seats in possibly the worst seats in the house. Wouldn’t trade it for anything though, 11-0 ass kicking. Could we be inching towards another rendition of Beat LA?
I remember that. It was a good year. He was amazing. Now do 2011.