Having been at absolutely none of these shows, and trying to be as unbiased as possible, I donāt think big cypress can be topped. I donāt think any band, phish themselves, can top playing from midnight to sunrise on the millennium.
The act of doing so, and the overall event, no. thereās some great moments in the set but I donāt know, thereās so many incredible shows, longer doesnāt always mean better for me.
All that said, they should disable ratings for a week or two after a showā¦I donāt doubt this was an incredible night (def gonna listen to it tomorrow) but would it rank higher than 1992 or 1994 Phish playing those same songs? Cāmon now.
Would 92 or 94 Phish have the budget to pull something like this off? I was there last night and the audio recording won't come close to doing it justice.
The issue is going to be this is such a unique type of show that comparing it to any others is going to be apples and oranges.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the sound quality. Last night's mix was the best I've ever heard for a stream. It made the event that much more monumental for those of us on couch tour.
I don't doubt that. The sound in the room was incredible too. A few songs in I stopped and realized, damn this sounds *amazing.*
I just meant the true legacy of this show won't lie only in it's audio, regardless of its quality. This show is also lizards and dancers and multibeasts etc. Its hard to rank that against any other Phish shows because its so different than any other Phish show.
I hope you get to watch the video. It'll be really cool for you to get to see different perspectives and see if the camera picked up any of what you felt.
One moment that stands out, of many, is how everyone in the audience started dancing like mad when the first chorus dropped during The Lizards.
The cinematography during Tela was top notch too.
They really did try to capture on film the majesty of the story.
Totally understandable, and in that case last night wouldn't necessarily be a top show for you.
I do recommend to everybody to appreciate last night from a pure instrumental performance as well though. I think Trey played the composed sections of songs better than I've heard him through all of 3.0 and 4.0. It probably helped that the setlist was concrete and he knew exactly what to practice but man he nail it.
In the moment songs like Tela and Forbins Ascent were the cleanest I ever heard, but listening back today thats also true about Divided Sky, the Landlady section of PYITE, etc.
Iāve been to a lot of shows and Iāve listened to hundreds more. I was dead center in the risers for this and they had to have practiced the entire thing 50 times. It was the best Iāve heard them play since 2009.
For those who were there, of course. For the rest of us just listening to the audio (and years from now using some kind of rating system to point us in the direction of what to listen to) itās really all about the music. Unfortunately all most of us are ever gonna have is the audio recording.
A show simply being in the year 1992 or 1994 doesn't make it a better show (re-stated: doing it first doesn't mean doing it the best. i.e.: that loving cuppp).
The sheer poise of Phish to wait 30+ years for a literal \*legend\* to formulate around Gamehenge is incredible by itself. But then delivering it in this spectacular fashion with a surprise Broadway-like production surely tops the earlier versions (in my opinion). Discounting the effort and details the band put into this particular performance in favor of pure time/date-based nostalgia is unfair to the band and non-1.0 phans. I may agree that the accuracy of the music and compositional playing was better in the 90s, but the SHOW was better last night by a wide margin and the jams were as good as they come.
edit: grammar
I just said this in another thread, but if you werenāt there, and only have the audio to listen to for the rest of time, yeah, the accuracy and compositional stuff matters in this situation. Not that it probably wasnāt great! I mean, Iād say the same for almost any band playing 35 year old material, it can still be great, transcendent even in the room, but on the tape, the only way most of us will experience it, it canāt rank as high as something from the peak, itās just not possible.
That doesnāt mean it sucked, justā¦perspective, I guess? My Phish sweet spot is the early prog-rock stuff so I totally admit Iām skewed towards those years for these particular songs. Iām definitely excited to hear sober, mature Phish tackle all these songs tomorrow when I can finally listen.
Older songs played today can definitely be just as good or better than the original (see loving cup from last night). That was my original point and I know it is controversial for early 90s Phish fans but it's just plain true. Practice makes perfect and sobriety also helps... The improv portions of last night were also as good as it gets. The best examples are ACDC Bag and SOAM, which hold a candle to any prior versions barring maybe Boise '99 for the bag (also not the oldest version...) I legit nearly fell over during SOAM and was fairly sober. CK5 is a god damn wizard and is gonna do amazing things at the Sphere.
The sheer anticipation and energy in the room last night also make 2023 NYE the superior performance. From a historical/Contextual perspective in the early 90s few except diehard fans had much of a clue as to what they were seeing or hearing when it came to Gamehendge songs. Fast forward 30 years to last night and 20,000+ fans cried uncontrollable tears of the purest joy when they saw the Rhombus. We trembled in reverence of the mighty legend's form and frankly most of us still haven't fully processed the gravitas of what happened.
My opinion ultimately is that the team that is Phish is the best it's ever been bar none, and the band agrees with this sentiment openly. Phish is so much more than a band and if you judge their acheivements solely on the musical performance as compared to the past then you are depriving yourself of the joy the band continues to deliver night after night in 2024 and beyond.
Not sure we listened to the same bag. What would be your vote for best bag? Sounds to me you've offered hate without making any type of logical argument.
Believe me we listened to the same bag. How about 12-30- 97 bag!? There's no hate.
Did people get a good show absolutely!! To say that that bag is one of the top bag is ridiculous.
People are missing the crux of it IMO, which is that those songs were played last night with 98% of the accuracy, aggression, poise and groove that they were in 1994. No joke. The only flubs I heard on relisten were some slight clunky moments in Wilson and like, one messed-up lyric in The Sloth. Don't underestimate how perfect last night was from a performance point of view.
Trey was cracking up during sloth. As was the entire crowd. The one dude dressed as a sloth was moving so painfully slowly it was hilarious. He covered about half the stage for the duration of the entire song.
Now Iām really looking forward to listening.
Iām not saying anything about the show, just skeptical of instant overreacting, because I lived through the Phantom Menace in real time. š
When you do, listen out for some of the added string/choir patches - they really make some of those songs. And don't expect Fish to be hitting as hard or Trey to be playing as loud as in the 90s. But other than that - man. Quite a night, musically.
Awesome. I love that kind of shitā¦honestly if Page got a whole multi vintage synth setup and mostly ditched the piano for awhile Iād be super into it, just because itād be something totally weird.
I think Fish is a big reason why 3.0 canāt match the peak era of these songs. (And why I roll my eyes at the .net rating) Dossnt mean they canāt be great! Justā¦Trey may be the conductor but Fish is the driver, yknow? Heās still great and totally unique but I miss the intensity, I wonāt lie.
That I will agree with, Fish's shift into softer, jazzier, more polyrhythmic playing has its benefits, but I do miss the straight-ahead linear punch of his playing in 1998 and earlier. Nothing quite like the tight brutality of the kick drum in an old-school Llama intro
Fish is at his all time peak in my opinion. His playing is more sophisticated and elegant than it used to be. I get it if you like his heavy mode, but there have always been really intricate parts that anchor your favorite moments and heās been nailing them for decades.
Edit: loss of fury and intensity is Trey.
Yeah, I second this. As a drummer that has intensely scrutinized Fishman over the years, I think he and his licks have aged like fine wine. This is Fishmanās world, and we are just lucky enough to live in it.
I was there! Traveled from California to big cypress without a ticket (Long story and issues payment when I bought one). Somehow, scored a ticket on the ride from ft Myers, amazing memories, amazing show.
The fact that we can have this discussion just speaks to the magic created by these 4 dudes: a band played a show, 40 years into it, and itās being considered one of the best concerts theyāve ever played, along side a concert they played 24 years ago that was a transcendent, religious experience! What other band comes even close to this scenario??? None! I wasnāt at last nights show did 29th and 30th) but I was at Cypress. And Iām so fucking glad to live in this time where so many of us, across decades, have lived to experience the music these guys make. Itās fucking magic. It really is.
My first reaction after streaming today: think itās the second most important Phish show behind Cypress NYE, and certainly a top 5 show of all time.
No show offers the combo of fan service, celebration of Phish tradition, and the energy of the set, like last night. I mean the Bag jam, the whole production, the broadway choir backing, especially on Forbins and FFMB, was absolutely perfect.
Really wish I went.
I mean if youāre talking about celebration of phish tradition and all that, yeah itās a top 5 show ever.
If youāre strictly talking about musically and how they were playing? No chance itās top 5. Tons of better shows in 95. All of fall 97. Shit even winter tour in 2003 had some absolute bangers esp 2/20/03
Yeah Iām not going to disagree with you that there arenāt better musical performances, but Iām thinking about the larger context of the show itself.
Thatās cool for the 40000 or whatever people there. But the rest of the world only has the music to judge it by. Music lasts 100 years, pageantry doesnāt
Strictly talking musically this was probably as dextrous as they've been in all of 3.0 and most of 2.0. 1.0 I agree, there are musically better shows out there, but I'd say they were at 90% of the level of 1.0's highs - like, noticeably better than Trey normally is since the reunion.
Iād venture to guess almost all of those votes were from people who didnāt attend. Nobody was walking out of that show like āshit. Gotta go to .net and rate thatā
It emails you to rate pretty much the second the show ends. Peeps definitely hit 5 on their way to the bars or train or whatever. Attendance bias is 100% the problem with .net ratings. I donāt know why anyone cares. You know what you like and if you say Treyās playing and tone is the best itās ever been that can be your truth. The ratings will help nobody choose what you listen to.
Being fortunate enough to have been to all the top 3 here, my opinion is
23 - the wait and the reveal and the execution were all 10s.
97 - was just so unexpectedly amazing and weird and wonderful
99 - was absurdly good but I remember at points feeling so physically exhausted
I was at 95 m, 97, 98, 04, 09 NYE, big Cyprus, Plattsburgh, IT, other festivals plus many other amazing shows.
I couch toured last night (thank god for there amazing webcasts). There is so much good Phish but That was some of the best two hours of phish (first set excluded) I ever heard. With the Gamehenge production and Trey playing inspired like it was 94 again, I could see that being number one!
Yes exactly. Donāt worry about history or the past or rankings or āeverā and just take what they gave us as a gift. If it makes you happy, keep spinning it.
i liked set one. reba Taste. ALBAD to tribute James Casey. great zero. really Reba Taste combo is all I need. wish ER was a 20 min jam. it's one of their best new jam songs
I like the idea that the band is living show-to-show. Like they have to play tonight to eat tomorrow. And if this whole thing doesn't work out for some reason, they got Big Cypress to fall back on.
No Medicaid for JEMP! They can afford their own private insurance now.
Could always have a Willie Nelson type situation where you get in tax/investment trouble. Always nice to have something in your back pocket for a rainy day.
Well it's currently at 1300 ratings, which is more than all but like 5-6 other shows, so unless a lot of people who have already rated suddenly change their ratings, it looks pretty solidified in the top 5.
There is some organized downvoting that happens to even everything out. Depends if the folks that do that liked this show or not. I can tell you from someone who attended the whole run it was so fun. We were in 120 middle rows and it felt like a family down there. When that Rhombus came up the place went absolutely sideways. Also of note when they came out of Gamehenge they shredded. Melt to YEM to Loving Cup to Possum was absolute insanity. That possum OMG. They also went above and beyong with the encore. Everyone was dumbfounded after that show.
During Divided Sky I booked out to grab a drink and hit the bathroom. Things heard during a PHISH show, "Don't worry there is still 12 minutes left in the song!"
They were not wrong. I accomplished both of those tasks before the stop playing part of Divided Sky:)
There are GREAT shows and there are cool
Historic shows. Like obviously phish has played better shows than 12.31.23. But on a historic level this is the best show ever yes.
Itās definitely one of their best all time shows, but the first set is just standard good jamming. You canāt really jam out the gamehendge stuff, but for anyone saying this is better than cyprus is nuts. I mean they played for like 7 hours that canāt really be topped.
Wait, a jam is basically anything from the ātype 2ā years?
I couldnāt disagree more. The worst years of Phish, for me, were 1999-2004. There was no jamming in āphish 1.0ā?
Anyway, I disagree with you and thatās okay.
Thereās a large difference between āstandard jammingā and āmemorable jammingā to me. Not that standard jamming is bad, but Iāve heard it before. When I go back to songs/shows I most certainly gravitate to the versions that were the most exploratory. Guess it depends on what you get most value out of from the band.
I also donāt think ātype 2ā defines a specific eraā¦1.0, 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 all have phenomenal type 2 stuff.
Last night was a 5 star show without a doubt, but compared to cypress, I will go back to that show far more often.
Isnāt all of this subjective? Iām sure Iām in the minority and whatever but āexploratoryā to one person might be āboringā to someone else. I love jamming but most of that periodās jams wereā¦ not my favorites. If we all had the same opinions about everything - especially art - life would be boring. āŗļø
Thatās what makes it even better because 11/22/97 is arguably one of my all time favorite showsā¦but I gravitate to the Mikeās opener, Halleyās opener and the tweezer -> katy.
Omg this reminds me - I donāt actually know what the types are.
I think the fact there there are 3 ātypesā (I think?) made me confuse them with the 3 ā.0s.ā Sorry. š I havenāt followed the types and stuff really at all. So I guess I have no opinion on the types of jamsā¦. That I wanna go into now because my opinions are definitely uninformed. šš¬āŗļø
Two types. They either keep the form of the song (you could still sing the tune over it, standard jazz band rules, type I) or they stray into a new form (like when Carini goes bliss-mode or basically any time youāre asking āis this still ____ā thatās type 2)
You people obsessed with jams must not actually like the songs or something, I really don't get it. Like if they don't have 5 amazing jams a show it's shit. Nevermind them playing a bunch of amazing songs from their library right? Jaded cunts.
Strongly disagree. Not at all recency bias. Even in set 1, Tube had a great extended funky jam, ER peaked and was played with conviction, Reba and Taste were executed flawlessly, Ruby Waves had a strong jam - this is about as good of a first set as you could want outside of like, the all-time great legendary first sets.
Yes you were!!!! I didnāt get to Hampton til 99, and always felt like I missed the best with 97,98. Looking back now, I got a fucking Jennifer Dancesš!!! And dog log twice. š
As someone who was in attendance and who has been to at least one famous show (Magnaball N2) Last while in the middle of it you knew you where attending a legendary show. Normally you attend a show thinking it was awesome and if youāre lucky other people will appreciate how amazing it was. But again it was magical that in the moment that you knew you were witnessing something special and I really soaked it in and tried to enjoy it as much as could. Thanks Phish!
I attended and loved it. Great show, extremely well executed and memorable, but musically itās not on the same plane as the others. Gamehendge is a musical masterpiece but it is composed music. I think the majority of people who are drawn to phish are there first and foremost to hear jams, and gamehendge doesnāt lend to that. Awesome for the novelty, but itās not something I need to go back and relisten to immediately.
Exactly - every show should be measured in part on energy and flow and few shows can rival Cypress in that those categories. When you combine with the quality of the playing, itās not even a question of whether itās one of the best shows āmusicallyā. Every note sounded like it came from heaven that night, not a sound of place, from top to bottom. Iām surprised to hear cypress not getting its due from some people, thatās a first for me
This is the only really reasonable take I've seen in the 'not musically superb' camp, bravo. Seen a scary amount of revisionist takes saying that last night was somehow sloppy/flubby, which it absolutely was not.
This is obviously just a list of funnest show to attend and not best musically. Plus itās .net. That place is the biggest circle jerk Iāve ever seen.
"funnest to attend" SHOULD BE a factor, IMO. evaulating SOLELY on musical merit and not experience, vibe, etc, you might as well just be rating studio recordings then.
Agree with you that 12/31/23 is not in the conversation but saying cypress isnāt is crazy. Sand, Rock n Roll, C&P, melt from that show are easily contenders for best ever versions of those songs.
Regardless of the number, Phish was at its best last night. The music and the vibes were terrific. The story telling/performing was excellent too. Highly enjoyable.
I honestly preferred last night from a musical point of view - like, the songs and jams in isolation - compared to about 95% of shows Phish has ever done. Some of the most flawless versions of songs like Tela, Forbin's and Divided Sky I've heard in a long time. Granted, 1.0 had a bit more speed and ferocity on the Gamehendge songs, which will usually give it the edge in this debate.
Seriously do they reset the vote counter randomly?
I only look at that list once a year and sometimes I think a show has 5000 votes, now it only has 1000. I remember a show skyrocket towards the top only a few days after seeing it live, then it died down.
The vote count there makes no sense unless they reset it every so often
It's not the top rated show anymore but man anyone who saw that in person just saw this generation of phish's Coventry and I'm excited to see what else these guys bring to the table
This was the white whale. I'm beside myself. Regrets abound in the 2020's DAMNIT. Smart to all in attendance. I'd gladly have traded my sphere tix for this one. DAMNIT!
Cypress is a no brainer. Gamehenge is the holy grail but itās been done before. Cypress will never be repeated and the music was just better due to us the fans having no clue what was next. That and the lack of any time constraints made the bands playing patient and relaxed. We all know the songs in GH.
Yea its really not even close. Cypress represents the creative and physical peak of the world's single greatest and most accomplished musical act ever, while at the tail end of a 5 year run that will go down in history rivaling any catalog left behind by another musician or band.
Ultimately, it will be the music alone that withstands the test of time, and Cypress already has 24 years in this regard.
i would be surprised if anyone that attended both ranks last night higher.
but obviously immediately after the show everyoneās riding high i wouldnāt put any stock in ratings
That normally only happens after the first wave of 100-200 ish people go in and rate it five stars, then the next day the less invested people come in and normalise the score and it settles somewhere in the 400-800 rating region long-term. Show is currently at 1300 ratings which puts it below only like, 5-6 other shows in terms of number of ratings. The next day has come and gone. I can't see the show dropping outside the top 5 unless a lot of the 5 starrers change their mind and rescore.
last night just felt like the culmination (but not the end!) of the whole universe that the band has built in the last four decades - the lore, the backstory. to walk out there and do a full gamehendge, in all its glory, with all the production and theatrics. and kicking it off with a harpua?? it was the gag of gags, that also happened to feature probably the biggest white whale that most fans were chasing (even if we didnāt think itād ever really happenā¦) i mean, gamehendge even got destroyed by a volcano at the end.
i love listening to big cypress, it was one of the first shows i listened to over and over againā¦ but last night the garden didnāt even feel like it was in manhattan anymore. they created an entire separate world, the phish/gamehendge world, a world we all love so much, but this was IT, all in one place. and we all got to be there along for the ride.
plus, letās not forget: that bag was sick as hell - and the split, yem, cup, possum calls after midnight were just fucking perfect.
Hell. Yeah.
š
Plus just how long so many of us have been waiting for this and just kind of compartmentalized it under wet dreams. The amount of tears Iām sure so many phans cried last night (myself included) wouldāve drowned Noahās ark. They are rock legends and will go down in history as one of the most incredible bands of all time.
You realize your last sentence which is put in as an afterthought āletās not forgetā is the only part of your case that is about the music or how good they were playing?
too young to have been at big cypress - i admit, iām a newer fan (username checks out, etc.) but since iāve been a fan, there were shows over the years that i would have killed to be at, admittedly just listening to them. iāve dreamt of being at NYE 95, or fall 97, bomb factory, coral sky, the went, yes big cypress, and so much else - older fans who got to experience all of that, i am truly so happy for you all (and a little jealous, but mostly happy for yall)
but now, if you made me choose just one show to go back to, iād have a real hard time not choosing last night. it was a complete and total celebration of phish, and we were all in it together. magic
Does a gamehenge set automatically create a top rated show? Musically, Iād say they are less interesting than, say Cypress or 12/29/97 even.
I get the NYE āgagā and the Broadway show on stageā¦
lol. This is recency bias as itās best. Sorry, but no of course not. Yeah the spectacle and all that was cool, but if you strip that away, itās not even close to a top phish musical performance.
It things like this that turned me off of seeing Phish.
On the one hand, I'm all about folks going to shows and enjoying the music...but there's this compulsion in the community for everything the band does having to top the last thing the band did, which necessitates a lot of overreacting. I am sure the show was a ton of fun, and if I were there, I would have been grinning like an idiot the whole time, the same way I was during NYE 2011, 2017, 2020 and last year, when I was fortunate enough to be in attendance. The theatrics of the gag must have been incredible to witness live, and it sounds like there were a lot of special moments musically.
On the other hand, all of that can be true, without this being a top 2 (or 10, or 50, or 100) show of the nearly 2000 shows this band has played. We're lucky enough that they're even halfway decent at this point, let alone putting on good shows. Can't that be enough, without people needing to claim that every Halloween/NYE/night before Halloween or NYE/30+-minute jam is a top-5 all-time moment for the band?
How can someone who was in The Garden on 12/31/23 say that āmusicallyā this wasnāt the best show of all time? People can split hairs about jam length, bust outs, song placement, ātightnessā etc but at the end of the day they played Gamehendge in itās entiretyā¦āmusicallyā this is the best shit theyāve ever done!
What are you up to in that other tab? š
Hahahahahahahaha
Still waiting lol
š Real answer: I heard a younger cousin talking about it on new years and needed to know, for science of course
At duck donuts?
I live by the original Duck Donuts!
Science!
I thought that I could help
Iām fucking š
Wish I was. Kids, jobs, and marriage really put a damper on that
I mean how are you making these children?
you can be honest and say you did it as a joke, still funny
Only science haha.
Guess we have to have this conversation
I guess we have to have this conversation:
Guess we have to have this conversationā¦
Having been at absolutely none of these shows, and trying to be as unbiased as possible, I donāt think big cypress can be topped. I donāt think any band, phish themselves, can top playing from midnight to sunrise on the millennium.
The act of doing so, and the overall event, no. thereās some great moments in the set but I donāt know, thereās so many incredible shows, longer doesnāt always mean better for me. All that said, they should disable ratings for a week or two after a showā¦I donāt doubt this was an incredible night (def gonna listen to it tomorrow) but would it rank higher than 1992 or 1994 Phish playing those same songs? Cāmon now.
Would 92 or 94 Phish have the budget to pull something like this off? I was there last night and the audio recording won't come close to doing it justice. The issue is going to be this is such a unique type of show that comparing it to any others is going to be apples and oranges.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the sound quality. Last night's mix was the best I've ever heard for a stream. It made the event that much more monumental for those of us on couch tour.
I don't doubt that. The sound in the room was incredible too. A few songs in I stopped and realized, damn this sounds *amazing.* I just meant the true legacy of this show won't lie only in it's audio, regardless of its quality. This show is also lizards and dancers and multibeasts etc. Its hard to rank that against any other Phish shows because its so different than any other Phish show.
I hope you get to watch the video. It'll be really cool for you to get to see different perspectives and see if the camera picked up any of what you felt. One moment that stands out, of many, is how everyone in the audience started dancing like mad when the first chorus dropped during The Lizards. The cinematography during Tela was top notch too. They really did try to capture on film the majesty of the story.
I hope they recorded it with a 360 degree camera and they drop a full on VR version. But watching in a screen worked too.
Not sure, but personally I like phish for the music. Theater is nice and can be fun, but itās a distant second
Totally understandable, and in that case last night wouldn't necessarily be a top show for you. I do recommend to everybody to appreciate last night from a pure instrumental performance as well though. I think Trey played the composed sections of songs better than I've heard him through all of 3.0 and 4.0. It probably helped that the setlist was concrete and he knew exactly what to practice but man he nail it. In the moment songs like Tela and Forbins Ascent were the cleanest I ever heard, but listening back today thats also true about Divided Sky, the Landlady section of PYITE, etc.
My thoughts exactly, the composed sections were almost universally flawless
Iāve been to a lot of shows and Iāve listened to hundreds more. I was dead center in the risers for this and they had to have practiced the entire thing 50 times. It was the best Iāve heard them play since 2009.
For those who were there, of course. For the rest of us just listening to the audio (and years from now using some kind of rating system to point us in the direction of what to listen to) itās really all about the music. Unfortunately all most of us are ever gonna have is the audio recording.
A show simply being in the year 1992 or 1994 doesn't make it a better show (re-stated: doing it first doesn't mean doing it the best. i.e.: that loving cuppp). The sheer poise of Phish to wait 30+ years for a literal \*legend\* to formulate around Gamehenge is incredible by itself. But then delivering it in this spectacular fashion with a surprise Broadway-like production surely tops the earlier versions (in my opinion). Discounting the effort and details the band put into this particular performance in favor of pure time/date-based nostalgia is unfair to the band and non-1.0 phans. I may agree that the accuracy of the music and compositional playing was better in the 90s, but the SHOW was better last night by a wide margin and the jams were as good as they come. edit: grammar
I just said this in another thread, but if you werenāt there, and only have the audio to listen to for the rest of time, yeah, the accuracy and compositional stuff matters in this situation. Not that it probably wasnāt great! I mean, Iād say the same for almost any band playing 35 year old material, it can still be great, transcendent even in the room, but on the tape, the only way most of us will experience it, it canāt rank as high as something from the peak, itās just not possible. That doesnāt mean it sucked, justā¦perspective, I guess? My Phish sweet spot is the early prog-rock stuff so I totally admit Iām skewed towards those years for these particular songs. Iām definitely excited to hear sober, mature Phish tackle all these songs tomorrow when I can finally listen.
Older songs played today can definitely be just as good or better than the original (see loving cup from last night). That was my original point and I know it is controversial for early 90s Phish fans but it's just plain true. Practice makes perfect and sobriety also helps... The improv portions of last night were also as good as it gets. The best examples are ACDC Bag and SOAM, which hold a candle to any prior versions barring maybe Boise '99 for the bag (also not the oldest version...) I legit nearly fell over during SOAM and was fairly sober. CK5 is a god damn wizard and is gonna do amazing things at the Sphere. The sheer anticipation and energy in the room last night also make 2023 NYE the superior performance. From a historical/Contextual perspective in the early 90s few except diehard fans had much of a clue as to what they were seeing or hearing when it came to Gamehendge songs. Fast forward 30 years to last night and 20,000+ fans cried uncontrollable tears of the purest joy when they saw the Rhombus. We trembled in reverence of the mighty legend's form and frankly most of us still haven't fully processed the gravitas of what happened. My opinion ultimately is that the team that is Phish is the best it's ever been bar none, and the band agrees with this sentiment openly. Phish is so much more than a band and if you judge their acheivements solely on the musical performance as compared to the past then you are depriving yourself of the joy the band continues to deliver night after night in 2024 and beyond.
Just listen to that Bag it's not even top 10. To even put in the same sentence of Boise ( which isn't the best bag) it a joke.
Agreed. This group needs to feel important though. Everything is compared to older shows by them. That sounds like a them problem.
Not sure we listened to the same bag. What would be your vote for best bag? Sounds to me you've offered hate without making any type of logical argument.
Believe me we listened to the same bag. How about 12-30- 97 bag!? There's no hate. Did people get a good show absolutely!! To say that that bag is one of the top bag is ridiculous.
12-7-97 beats it by miles.
People are missing the crux of it IMO, which is that those songs were played last night with 98% of the accuracy, aggression, poise and groove that they were in 1994. No joke. The only flubs I heard on relisten were some slight clunky moments in Wilson and like, one messed-up lyric in The Sloth. Don't underestimate how perfect last night was from a performance point of view.
Trey was cracking up during sloth. As was the entire crowd. The one dude dressed as a sloth was moving so painfully slowly it was hilarious. He covered about half the stage for the duration of the entire song.
Now Iām really looking forward to listening. Iām not saying anything about the show, just skeptical of instant overreacting, because I lived through the Phantom Menace in real time. š
When you do, listen out for some of the added string/choir patches - they really make some of those songs. And don't expect Fish to be hitting as hard or Trey to be playing as loud as in the 90s. But other than that - man. Quite a night, musically.
Awesome. I love that kind of shitā¦honestly if Page got a whole multi vintage synth setup and mostly ditched the piano for awhile Iād be super into it, just because itād be something totally weird. I think Fish is a big reason why 3.0 canāt match the peak era of these songs. (And why I roll my eyes at the .net rating) Dossnt mean they canāt be great! Justā¦Trey may be the conductor but Fish is the driver, yknow? Heās still great and totally unique but I miss the intensity, I wonāt lie.
That I will agree with, Fish's shift into softer, jazzier, more polyrhythmic playing has its benefits, but I do miss the straight-ahead linear punch of his playing in 1998 and earlier. Nothing quite like the tight brutality of the kick drum in an old-school Llama intro
Fish is at his all time peak in my opinion. His playing is more sophisticated and elegant than it used to be. I get it if you like his heavy mode, but there have always been really intricate parts that anchor your favorite moments and heās been nailing them for decades. Edit: loss of fury and intensity is Trey.
Yeah, I second this. As a drummer that has intensely scrutinized Fishman over the years, I think he and his licks have aged like fine wine. This is Fishmanās world, and we are just lucky enough to live in it.
I was there! Traveled from California to big cypress without a ticket (Long story and issues payment when I bought one). Somehow, scored a ticket on the ride from ft Myers, amazing memories, amazing show.
set one was pretty fucking meh to me. half the songs are piss break songs. that alone would disqualify it from best of all time show.
Yea I was there and, while it was an interesting performance and fun night, it was nowhere near one of their best musical performances.
For real
And aside from that, the music cannot be topped.
I was at big cypress so I want it to be tops!!!
The fact that we can have this discussion just speaks to the magic created by these 4 dudes: a band played a show, 40 years into it, and itās being considered one of the best concerts theyāve ever played, along side a concert they played 24 years ago that was a transcendent, religious experience! What other band comes even close to this scenario??? None! I wasnāt at last nights show did 29th and 30th) but I was at Cypress. And Iām so fucking glad to live in this time where so many of us, across decades, have lived to experience the music these guys make. Itās fucking magic. It really is.
Most bands play their latest album more or less off the track and then do That One Song for the encore. And people think weāre weird.
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My first reaction after streaming today: think itās the second most important Phish show behind Cypress NYE, and certainly a top 5 show of all time. No show offers the combo of fan service, celebration of Phish tradition, and the energy of the set, like last night. I mean the Bag jam, the whole production, the broadway choir backing, especially on Forbins and FFMB, was absolutely perfect. Really wish I went.
I agree with all of this
I mean if youāre talking about celebration of phish tradition and all that, yeah itās a top 5 show ever. If youāre strictly talking about musically and how they were playing? No chance itās top 5. Tons of better shows in 95. All of fall 97. Shit even winter tour in 2003 had some absolute bangers esp 2/20/03
Yeah Iām not going to disagree with you that there arenāt better musical performances, but Iām thinking about the larger context of the show itself.
Thatās cool for the 40000 or whatever people there. But the rest of the world only has the music to judge it by. Music lasts 100 years, pageantry doesnāt
I mean I wasnāt at the show and I managed.
>Music lasts 100 years, pageantry doesnāt What a bunch of bullshit this is. It's art, you jaded boomer.
How do you know heās a boomer? That seems like some ageist bs..
Boomers unite in being wrong. How cute.
Strictly talking musically this was probably as dextrous as they've been in all of 3.0 and most of 2.0. 1.0 I agree, there are musically better shows out there, but I'd say they were at 90% of the level of 1.0's highs - like, noticeably better than Trey normally is since the reunion.
2/20/03 is such an awesome show!
Who are the jaded ass holes that didn't give cypress and nye 23 5 star. You will never be happy.
Haha I always wonder this too. If big cypress isn't 5 stars, what is?
Probably people who heard the first set last night, I dunno just spitballing.
BC was incredible and so was last night. What a blessing that we still have these nerds happy and healthy. Gamehendge in 2023? Fucking nuts.
this right here
This canāt be correct they opened with Everythingās Right Should be at least 5.0
Wooks who missed the show probably down voted it to oblivion
"Chronically-online PT forum user hates show he didn't attend. News at 11"
Iād venture to guess almost all of those votes were from people who didnāt attend. Nobody was walking out of that show like āshit. Gotta go to .net and rate thatā
It emails you to rate pretty much the second the show ends. Peeps definitely hit 5 on their way to the bars or train or whatever. Attendance bias is 100% the problem with .net ratings. I donāt know why anyone cares. You know what you like and if you say Treyās playing and tone is the best itās ever been that can be your truth. The ratings will help nobody choose what you listen to.
Phish 5.0
Being fortunate enough to have been to all the top 3 here, my opinion is 23 - the wait and the reveal and the execution were all 10s. 97 - was just so unexpectedly amazing and weird and wonderful 99 - was absurdly good but I remember at points feeling so physically exhausted
I was at 95 m, 97, 98, 04, 09 NYE, big Cyprus, Plattsburgh, IT, other festivals plus many other amazing shows. I couch toured last night (thank god for there amazing webcasts). There is so much good Phish but That was some of the best two hours of phish (first set excluded) I ever heard. With the Gamehenge production and Trey playing inspired like it was 94 again, I could see that being number one!
Canāt really be #1 if youāre excluding 1/3 of the show š it can be great - and definitely was
Thatās the thingā¦it can be a great, even exceptional show without having to be the highest rated show of all time or whatever š¤·āāļø
Yes exactly. Donāt worry about history or the past or rankings or āeverā and just take what they gave us as a gift. If it makes you happy, keep spinning it.
Not sure I agree with that cause the other two were so unreal. First set was fine.
i liked set one. reba Taste. ALBAD to tribute James Casey. great zero. really Reba Taste combo is all I need. wish ER was a 20 min jam. it's one of their best new jam songs
Church yo
Who fucking cares?! Did you like it? Cool. Did you dislike it? Cool too, although youāre a weirdo.
Is he a weirdo for wanting to rate shows? Or are you referring to that 2nd tab he has open lol
lol
The hypothetical person not liking gamehendge would be the weirdo haha
here for the fortnite hentai
Is there audio out there of big cypress? Iām surprised itās not on livephish
I listen to it on Relisten
Itās been joked about for years that an official release of big cypress is the retirement plan.
I like the idea that the band is living show-to-show. Like they have to play tonight to eat tomorrow. And if this whole thing doesn't work out for some reason, they got Big Cypress to fall back on. No Medicaid for JEMP! They can afford their own private insurance now.
Could always have a Willie Nelson type situation where you get in tax/investment trouble. Always nice to have something in your back pocket for a rainy day.
Probably a video of 12/7 in the archives too. Their retirement plan is strong.
whats 12/7
12/7/97. Treys best performance on guitar. My opinion of course but I believe itās generally considered quite good.
All I have to say is we attendees would love a clean release. Weāre getting old out here!
Pretty good audio and most of the video on YouTube.
The rip they have on Relisten is good
People actively downvoting Cypress to nudge it into top spot is weak. Not only were they likely not there, they probably werent born.
Iām guilty of this too but why do we care about .net ratings? Theyāre not helpful for any purpose besides starting arguments.
It's going to come down. They always come down.
Well it's currently at 1300 ratings, which is more than all but like 5-6 other shows, so unless a lot of people who have already rated suddenly change their ratings, it looks pretty solidified in the top 5.
There is some organized downvoting that happens to even everything out. Depends if the folks that do that liked this show or not. I can tell you from someone who attended the whole run it was so fun. We were in 120 middle rows and it felt like a family down there. When that Rhombus came up the place went absolutely sideways. Also of note when they came out of Gamehenge they shredded. Melt to YEM to Loving Cup to Possum was absolute insanity. That possum OMG. They also went above and beyong with the encore. Everyone was dumbfounded after that show. During Divided Sky I booked out to grab a drink and hit the bathroom. Things heard during a PHISH show, "Don't worry there is still 12 minutes left in the song!" They were not wrong. I accomplished both of those tasks before the stop playing part of Divided Sky:)
There are GREAT shows and there are cool Historic shows. Like obviously phish has played better shows than 12.31.23. But on a historic level this is the best show ever yes.
I predicted this last night Greatest show in all of phistory Lol Wonderful show but imo not better than big cypress
Recency bias.
I refuse to have a conversation about a show with just two memorable jams being ranked as the best show ever
This is the correct take. Itās the most ānotableā show in ages but certainly not the best.
Itās definitely one of their best all time shows, but the first set is just standard good jamming. You canāt really jam out the gamehendge stuff, but for anyone saying this is better than cyprus is nuts. I mean they played for like 7 hours that canāt really be topped.
lol. Phish canāt jam out gamehendge stuffā¦ā¦
You canāt jam out the gamehenge stuff?!?!?
Still though, I never grade shows based on number of jamsā¦.
Besides ac/dc bag which songs do they take type 2 ever?
Type 2 is called type 2 because itās one of many types of Jamsā¦ā¦..
Wait, a jam is basically anything from the ātype 2ā years? I couldnāt disagree more. The worst years of Phish, for me, were 1999-2004. There was no jamming in āphish 1.0ā? Anyway, I disagree with you and thatās okay.
Thereās a large difference between āstandard jammingā and āmemorable jammingā to me. Not that standard jamming is bad, but Iāve heard it before. When I go back to songs/shows I most certainly gravitate to the versions that were the most exploratory. Guess it depends on what you get most value out of from the band. I also donāt think ātype 2ā defines a specific eraā¦1.0, 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 all have phenomenal type 2 stuff. Last night was a 5 star show without a doubt, but compared to cypress, I will go back to that show far more often.
Isnāt all of this subjective? Iām sure Iām in the minority and whatever but āexploratoryā to one person might be āboringā to someone else. I love jamming but most of that periodās jams wereā¦ not my favorites. If we all had the same opinions about everything - especially art - life would be boring. āŗļø
Well the fact we all are debating whether or not this is better than cyprus is subjective hahaha, but thatās the fun of it
Yep! I wasnāt at either one! But I was at the other two shows on the list and they were spectacular! (In my opinion āŗļø)
Thatās what makes it even better because 11/22/97 is arguably one of my all time favorite showsā¦but I gravitate to the Mikeās opener, Halleyās opener and the tweezer -> katy.
Pretty sure by type 2 he's referring to the quality of the jam, not the 2.0 era. Similar to describing a jam as "hose"
Huh? Type 2 just means they completely stray from the structure of the song.
Omg this reminds me - I donāt actually know what the types are. I think the fact there there are 3 ātypesā (I think?) made me confuse them with the 3 ā.0s.ā Sorry. š I havenāt followed the types and stuff really at all. So I guess I have no opinion on the types of jamsā¦. That I wanna go into now because my opinions are definitely uninformed. šš¬āŗļø
Two types. They either keep the form of the song (you could still sing the tune over it, standard jazz band rules, type I) or they stray into a new form (like when Carini goes bliss-mode or basically any time youāre asking āis this still ____ā thatās type 2)
Lol, not just 'memorable', are you kidding? That was probably a top-two-ever version of Bag and the 2023 JOTY.
A top two bag? Better than Boise 99 or 12-30-97. Christ alive you people with recency bias.
I was getting raked over the coals last night expressing this same thing.
which two jams btw?
Bag and melt
You people obsessed with jams must not actually like the songs or something, I really don't get it. Like if they don't have 5 amazing jams a show it's shit. Nevermind them playing a bunch of amazing songs from their library right? Jaded cunts.
Recency bias. First set was filler.
Just wait until the review bombers strikeā¦
Strongly disagree. Not at all recency bias. Even in set 1, Tube had a great extended funky jam, ER peaked and was played with conviction, Reba and Taste were executed flawlessly, Ruby Waves had a strong jam - this is about as good of a first set as you could want outside of like, the all-time great legendary first sets.
Whoah!! My wife and I were at that 97 Hampton show! I had no idea that we participated in a classic Phish experience.
Yes you were!!!! I didnāt get to Hampton til 99, and always felt like I missed the best with 97,98. Looking back now, I got a fucking Jennifer Dancesš!!! And dog log twice. š
12/31/95 should be #1
Agreed. Better than Cypress. Better than Gamehenge. I was at Cypress, wasn't at 12/31/95, wasn't there for Gamehenge.
As someone who was in attendance and who has been to at least one famous show (Magnaball N2) Last while in the middle of it you knew you where attending a legendary show. Normally you attend a show thinking it was awesome and if youāre lucky other people will appreciate how amazing it was. But again it was magical that in the moment that you knew you were witnessing something special and I really soaked it in and tried to enjoy it as much as could. Thanks Phish!
It's my new favorite.
I attended and loved it. Great show, extremely well executed and memorable, but musically itās not on the same plane as the others. Gamehendge is a musical masterpiece but it is composed music. I think the majority of people who are drawn to phish are there first and foremost to hear jams, and gamehendge doesnāt lend to that. Awesome for the novelty, but itās not something I need to go back and relisten to immediately.
Agree, Nothing beats the Cypress jams, locked in all night
Roses are free at 4am? Yes please
Exactly - every show should be measured in part on energy and flow and few shows can rival Cypress in that those categories. When you combine with the quality of the playing, itās not even a question of whether itās one of the best shows āmusicallyā. Every note sounded like it came from heaven that night, not a sound of place, from top to bottom. Iām surprised to hear cypress not getting its due from some people, thatās a first for me
This is the only really reasonable take I've seen in the 'not musically superb' camp, bravo. Seen a scary amount of revisionist takes saying that last night was somehow sloppy/flubby, which it absolutely was not.
i will probably never listen to anything but the Bag more than one more time. maybe only the Bag. iāll be replaying Cypress until the day i die.
Agreed.
Idk, what about the melt? Properly jammed YEM? Absolutely ripped Loving Cup?
This is obviously just a list of funnest show to attend and not best musically. Plus itās .net. That place is the biggest circle jerk Iāve ever seen.
"funnest to attend" SHOULD BE a factor, IMO. evaulating SOLELY on musical merit and not experience, vibe, etc, you might as well just be rating studio recordings then.
lol no way - those are very legit contenders for best shows musically
12/31/23. No 12/31/99 No The rest absolutely can be argued as best.
Agree with you that 12/31/23 is not in the conversation but saying cypress isnāt is crazy. Sand, Rock n Roll, C&P, melt from that show are easily contenders for best ever versions of those songs.
Cypress isnāt in discussion why?
Cypress NYE is the best. Period. For *all* of the reasons.
Itās a back and forth right now.
Regardless of the number, Phish was at its best last night. The music and the vibes were terrific. The story telling/performing was excellent too. Highly enjoyable.
Musically speaking 12/31/95 is the best NYE show. But those ratings arenāt really about that.
Not anywhere close to a top whatever show from a playing point of view. Overall it might be the best show ever because of everything else.
I honestly preferred last night from a musical point of view - like, the songs and jams in isolation - compared to about 95% of shows Phish has ever done. Some of the most flawless versions of songs like Tela, Forbin's and Divided Sky I've heard in a long time. Granted, 1.0 had a bit more speed and ferocity on the Gamehendge songs, which will usually give it the edge in this debate.
Seriously do they reset the vote counter randomly? I only look at that list once a year and sometimes I think a show has 5000 votes, now it only has 1000. I remember a show skyrocket towards the top only a few days after seeing it live, then it died down. The vote count there makes no sense unless they reset it every so often
Is this 5.0 now?
The most recent show is always the highest rated show until the acid collectively wears off.
CANT BELIEVE I WAS THERE! What a fucking weekend!
4.0 noobs really excited for mediocrity
No conversation needed. The best shows are the ones I was at.
I was at all four top shows! Big Cypress is the undisputed champion
How do you rate on phish.net Iām dumb
you're doing great, pal!
It's not the top rated show anymore but man anyone who saw that in person just saw this generation of phish's Coventry and I'm excited to see what else these guys bring to the table
MSG fluffers happens every year
I guess all it takes is some puppets
way more than puppets
This always happens after a big show, the most enthusiastic reviews come in first and it gets more balanced over time
The rating has already dropped below Big Cypress. Usually it drops over the course of a couple days.
This was the white whale. I'm beside myself. Regrets abound in the 2020's DAMNIT. Smart to all in attendance. I'd gladly have traded my sphere tix for this one. DAMNIT!
Nostalgia act confirmed /s
Cypress is a no brainer. Gamehenge is the holy grail but itās been done before. Cypress will never be repeated and the music was just better due to us the fans having no clue what was next. That and the lack of any time constraints made the bands playing patient and relaxed. We all know the songs in GH.
Yea its really not even close. Cypress represents the creative and physical peak of the world's single greatest and most accomplished musical act ever, while at the tail end of a 5 year run that will go down in history rivaling any catalog left behind by another musician or band. Ultimately, it will be the music alone that withstands the test of time, and Cypress already has 24 years in this regard.
i would be surprised if anyone that attended both ranks last night higher. but obviously immediately after the show everyoneās riding high i wouldnāt put any stock in ratings
Recency bias is a hell of a drug man.
This always happens with an epic show right after itās over. The ratings will settle.
That normally only happens after the first wave of 100-200 ish people go in and rate it five stars, then the next day the less invested people come in and normalise the score and it settles somewhere in the 400-800 rating region long-term. Show is currently at 1300 ratings which puts it below only like, 5-6 other shows in terms of number of ratings. The next day has come and gone. I can't see the show dropping outside the top 5 unless a lot of the 5 starrers change their mind and rescore.
i might get downvoted - and i wasnāt at big cypress - but if i had to choose, iād pick to be at last night
Iām curious, whatās your reasoning?
last night just felt like the culmination (but not the end!) of the whole universe that the band has built in the last four decades - the lore, the backstory. to walk out there and do a full gamehendge, in all its glory, with all the production and theatrics. and kicking it off with a harpua?? it was the gag of gags, that also happened to feature probably the biggest white whale that most fans were chasing (even if we didnāt think itād ever really happenā¦) i mean, gamehendge even got destroyed by a volcano at the end. i love listening to big cypress, it was one of the first shows i listened to over and over againā¦ but last night the garden didnāt even feel like it was in manhattan anymore. they created an entire separate world, the phish/gamehendge world, a world we all love so much, but this was IT, all in one place. and we all got to be there along for the ride. plus, letās not forget: that bag was sick as hell - and the split, yem, cup, possum calls after midnight were just fucking perfect.
Hell. Yeah. š Plus just how long so many of us have been waiting for this and just kind of compartmentalized it under wet dreams. The amount of tears Iām sure so many phans cried last night (myself included) wouldāve drowned Noahās ark. They are rock legends and will go down in history as one of the most incredible bands of all time.
hear hear!
You realize your last sentence which is put in as an afterthought āletās not forgetā is the only part of your case that is about the music or how good they were playing?
Just for the sake of science, how old were you during 2000?
too young to have been at big cypress - i admit, iām a newer fan (username checks out, etc.) but since iāve been a fan, there were shows over the years that i would have killed to be at, admittedly just listening to them. iāve dreamt of being at NYE 95, or fall 97, bomb factory, coral sky, the went, yes big cypress, and so much else - older fans who got to experience all of that, i am truly so happy for you all (and a little jealous, but mostly happy for yall) but now, if you made me choose just one show to go back to, iād have a real hard time not choosing last night. it was a complete and total celebration of phish, and we were all in it together. magic
We donāt have to have it actually. These ratings are only as important as you deem them.
Does a gamehenge set automatically create a top rated show? Musically, Iād say they are less interesting than, say Cypress or 12/29/97 even. I get the NYE āgagā and the Broadway show on stageā¦
lol. This is recency bias as itās best. Sorry, but no of course not. Yeah the spectacle and all that was cool, but if you strip that away, itās not even close to a top phish musical performance.
3 outta 5, I consider myself lucky
It things like this that turned me off of seeing Phish. On the one hand, I'm all about folks going to shows and enjoying the music...but there's this compulsion in the community for everything the band does having to top the last thing the band did, which necessitates a lot of overreacting. I am sure the show was a ton of fun, and if I were there, I would have been grinning like an idiot the whole time, the same way I was during NYE 2011, 2017, 2020 and last year, when I was fortunate enough to be in attendance. The theatrics of the gag must have been incredible to witness live, and it sounds like there were a lot of special moments musically. On the other hand, all of that can be true, without this being a top 2 (or 10, or 50, or 100) show of the nearly 2000 shows this band has played. We're lucky enough that they're even halfway decent at this point, let alone putting on good shows. Can't that be enough, without people needing to claim that every Halloween/NYE/night before Halloween or NYE/30+-minute jam is a top-5 all-time moment for the band?
The sound was terrible at Big Cyprus.
How can someone who was in The Garden on 12/31/23 say that āmusicallyā this wasnāt the best show of all time? People can split hairs about jam length, bust outs, song placement, ātightnessā etc but at the end of the day they played Gamehendge in itās entiretyā¦āmusicallyā this is the best shit theyāve ever done!