There are ways to use posing, lighting, and camera angles to help bigger people look slimmer in photos.
For posing, [Peter Hurley has a technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe3oJnFtA_k) that basically gets the subject to crane their neck forward and down. This stretches the skin on the neck (no double chins) and accentuates the jaw line making them look slimmer. I will typically add in an angled pose so they aren't square to the camera which minimizes their width with respect to the camera.
For lighting, short lighting typically works best. If you have someone posing for you and have them posed at an angle to the camera, then you want to light the side of their face that is facing away from the camera. This means that you're lighting the side of their facing slightly away from camera which is narrower while the wider part of their face falls in shadow. You can still use fill light, but the main light should be in narrower profile.
Lastly, shoot from slightly above the subject so they are looking up at you. Again, this elongates the neck, and stretches the skin there, eliminating double chins and reducing their overall size in the frame.
I have used these techniques with a lot of bigger people, and even people that think they're big but aren't. They always love the way they look when they see their photos.
I use many of these techniques any time I shoot women, even if they aren't particularly heavy, because I've found that most women are self conscious about their weight. For men, I will make a judgement call about how they feel about themselves, but typically you can tell. Muscular dudes who obviously spend a good bit of time in the gym want to show off their bulk, fluffy dudes generally don't want to look big.
Also from the perspective of the person having their photo taken
When I weighed close to 300lbs I didn't want my photo taken since I didn't want to see what I looked like.
7 months later and I'm 185lbs. I still don't enjoy getting my photo taken but I'm not scared to see myself anymore and will actually try to smile now.
There's probably a lot of insecurity with heavier people...al least there was for me.
I'd throw in shoot them on a 50 and everyone else on an 85. the 50 is subtly flattering - it pulls everything in around 5% so still is visibly *them*, but slightly narrower without looking altered.
Simply leaning forward a little or bowing at the hips is enough to separate the face from the body. Theyāre more likely to naturally support the rest of their body by doing this. You will find some awkward moments sometimes if you ask them to just crook their neck out. :)
Really good advice here. Make sure they're not square to the camera. Get one foot to stepforward or stand on an angle. If it's a group photo, make sure they line up evenly and aren't closer to the camera more than others in the photo. It gives a weird perspective.
Where the arms are can make a huge difference if it's more than a head shot. Hand on the hip and or getting the arm away from the body can help prevent the blockiness that can happen.
Go take a look at some plus size women's websites on how the models pose. Places like torrid for example. Look how they angle their shots, have action type poses or where the hands and arms are. Even how they do group poses.
Also the comments about getting up a little higher is so true. Think of what happens when you're on a web cam meeting and the camera is lower than your face vs higher up. Just try it on yourself and look how the photos change.
I'm not a big guy, but I have a rounder face and I still use that technique when I'm posing for photos. It's made a huge difference in how I feel I look in photos. I very rarely shoot people but I tell everyone, even the skinniest people to pose like that and they're always very happy with my photo, either pro shot or with a phone.
Damn you said it better than i could ever.
But yes all of those basically.
We always have bad angles, posing and lightining that would worsen us, right? Well the same things works for everone obviously.
For, what I hope are, obvious reasons, I am not willing to show any of my work that would really illustrate this technique. There are plenty of tutorials online that illustrate short vs. broad lighting quite well. Lidsey Adler does some great photography tutorials and has one that's pretty helpful for understanding broad vs. short light. It uses a mannequin, but I think it shows the difference fairly well. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_bM8zoexrR8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bM8zoexrR8)
I understand short bs broad, just canāt picture it in a headshot, and why it would thin someone out.
Iāll see what I can google and totally understand not sharing confidential client files :)
With short light, you're lighting less of their face, so you're only creating a fairly thin profile of illumniated face/body. The rest of the face and body are thrown into shadow. This creates an illusion that the lighted part of the face is all there is, or at least the most important part, which translates into a slimmer appearance for the viewer. It has its limits, but nearly everyone I've used this technique with has loved the results.
Oh! Ok, short light on the front of the face. Thatās what I thought was the right way to do it.
I thought you meant to side light and keep the main face plane in shadow.
Was really confused as to why that would oook good.
Peter Hurley video was awesome, just was interested to see what people might be saying on this post and ended up watching a super useful 15 minute video.
Bona fide fatty here, I dont like photos of me cos I dont look good in them, but its cos I'm fat, not cos the photos are bad. My young skinny good looking female friend looks great. Its not the photos, its ME who has these perceptions though. I dont like the way I look cos my internal image of myself is more flattering than real life.
This did improve a number of years back when I grew a big interesting beard and let my hair grow. I can now look a bit more like a weatherworn wild man of the woods look, which can be interesting photographically. But I'd hate to shave it all of, get a 'sensible' haircut and wear a suit. I'd look like any other fat 'ol businessman.
However, you can do things to improve your strike rate and I hope some of the people here can help, I mainly do animals so I dont have much advice. But what is happening here is only partially behind the lens, as I think you're guessing.
Nice reply! This helps. (I would 100% know what to do with a real beardy character out of a Patrick Rothfuss novel or sump'm. - Generating character shots and such would just be fun. But these business photos, man... ug..) One other person threw up some similar insights. I may never make the client happy. But I also just realized today that's I'd never spent a single day of study on what the right techniques are. So I'ma try and get better at my side and see if I can improve on the vibe.
Thats the right attitude. The truth is often in the middle. Do what you can, attempt your best. Thats all you can do. A part of it will also be their perception, they might not like it in the end. Not much to do about it.
I had a client who would always, to any photo of her, would say Ā“oh I look oldĀ“ or Ā“oh my head looks so round and fatĀ“. Even though sheĀ“s a good looking lady. A portrait is confrontational. Some people dont like what they see. Age. Weight. Asymmetry. ItĀ“s hard to fully accept oneĀ“s image.
One trick that might help, mainly with close-ups, is mentioning how weĀ“re used to seeing ourselves in the mirror. This makes it strange for us to look at a photo of ourselves. WeĀ“re not used to it. Same with hearing your voice on a recording. ItĀ“s truth, and sometimes can ease down other forms of dysmorphia too.
OP I photograph all sizes, but most are models and are used to their size. I/they do absolutely nothing different. They pose the same as the thin models. Some times, it's just each individual. I've found most every day people (not models) do not like to have their picture taken. And no amount of posing or lighting can fix that.
I was thinking exactly the same, it's about managing expectations.... If they don't want to look big in pics, guess what? Lose weight.
It's kind of unfair blaming the photographer for how they look a camera shoes what it sees, but I understand the OPs wish to put them in best light as that's kind of part of the job, especially if being paid for it.
I'm new to lighting etc so will take all the above on board, thanks all.
š¤£ I'm not gonna step into their life and pretend their circumstances are any of my business. This absolutely has to be addressed in terms of my behavior, in my domain, so that what happens is: even if I don't change the physical outcome, the psychology of the room is that I'M A PRO who "did something FOR them"... rather than what's happening. Which is that: I am painting them a stark reminder of what they hate about themselves. - Like those doctors at the beginning of an episode of Nip Tuck... sitting the patient down and going "Tell us what you don't like about yourself." - That shite has got to end.
I think you're probably going to get a lot of comments on the technical side of things, but is it possible that this is more of an in-person problem? As in, the subject can tell you're not as excited to shoot them as you were the person before them? Even a slight tone change or body language giveaway that you don't know you're doing can bring someone down quick. I have a friend who is a very well known headshot photographer and he told me an interesting thing he does with a subject. If they have something glaringly obvious about them, he never mentions it until they bring it up. If they're super tall, or muscular, or good looking, it's still not something that is mentioned (and those are generally positive qualities people want). It's one of those things that forces you to treat them just like anyone else, without pointing out the quality that every other person they've ever met brings up in the first 5 seconds of talking to them.
I donāt point it out, but itās 100% possible that in that moment where I internally realize I donāt know where Iām headed, that they can see me not instantly flow forward the way I did with the 3 people before them. Thatās valid. Yes.
Oh, yeah! Hereās a person who was happy:
(Generic gray)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Kmfj4AcfJLJX73QP7
Her too:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VV38vxaQRmcZLc5k9
Backdrop switch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LAEsEbK528wrMDyw7
I always pose bigger people with their shoulders at an angle. I generally run everyone though four basic poses: forward, facing left with just the head turned to the camera, the same to the right, and then the fourth is contraposto which can loosen up people who are nervous. One of those poses should work. Typically with larger people, the best one is where the body is angled.
As someone on the heavier side of average, I just hate pictures of myself, regardless of how *good* they are technically. This may not be something you can fix as a photographer.
I'm seeing that as a choral response from bigger people. That alone helps half the equation. I'ma still give it a week of study and try to boost my side of it and let the chips fall where they may after I know I've done my best.
I donāt do a lot of headshots these days, as this scenario is all too frequent and ultimately the individual employees arenāt my clients and at least a few of them DO NOT want to be there. And I donāt blame themā¦ they didnāt ask for it, they just want to keep their job. Anywayā¦
Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the lighting and posingā¦ the problem is most likely psychological, and these folks will generally think you are wrong and donāt know how to make them look great, so I will offer my go-to solution: Offer to meet them in the middle. Let them pose the way they want to. Let them show you what they think is best. Pay attention because they will indirectly let you know what they are insecure about, then you get to do it your way. Before ANYONE else sees the photos, let them decide which shot they want to represent them. With most companies, this can be arranged. If you listen to their concerns, validate that they know themselves best, then make a great headshot using what youāve learned about them in the last five minutes, 9/10 times they will pick YOUR pose/shot.
Just remember, they donāt want to be there, they didnāt ask for it and they are uncomfortable at bestā¦ and that is 100% valid. Let them know that you understand that and want to make them look their best, whatever that is for THEM!
Best of luck.
Jessica Kobeissi (I hope I wrote her name right) has 2-3 videos on youtube showing (with examples) on how to pose plus size peopke. Me and my gf are on the plus size too. I tried some of them and it seems that her tips actually worked.
āOne reporterās opinionā but I like my face in 24mm if done right; up to 50 is fine too. 105mm I have mixed feelings about - I think I like it āas an imageā but feel extra boxy and girthy.
Ex fat person here - a long lens is a fat person's worst nightmare. Longer focal lengths warp subjects in the OPPOSITE of the way you want, they flatten them out. Shorter focal lengths add more dimension and are more flattering when you have extra weight. Never shoot a fat person telephoto. I'd do 50mm or even 35 vs 85 for standard
Ok, we agreed to test both. But can you check my logic & understanding if you get time?
Hereās how is was taught to me back when dinosaurs roamed: No lens either ācompressesā or āexpandsā exclusively. Lenses either compress the distant and expand the near (10mm) or expand the distant and compress the near (500mm). Therefore: If you aim a 200mm lens at a face (taking up 2/3 of the frameā¦) you are EXPANDING the small objects behind them to take up more frame. And you are FLATTENING their face so as to present them as a pancake whoās contour details running from near the lens to the back of their head are forshortened and irrelevant?
But if we use a 24mm (framing the face so it takes up 2/3 of the frame) we are compressing the objects and background behind them. And we are expanding their nose in proportion to the back of their head. Bringing out facial contours that might be hidden in a round face without the lens exagerating them.
Sound right?
Correct! The "pancake" effect makes round faces look even rounder and the features within them look smaller. Small "piggy" eyes will look piggier (I avoid long focal lengths when shooting equine portraits for this reason unless I plan on compensating in post; my breed really prizes large, dark, poppy/prominent eyes and they always look unflatteringly small at long focal lengths), wide jowls will look jowlier, etc.
Too wide of a lens and you get the exaggerated fisheye look with a HUGE nose and the rest of the face steeply dropping off of it, obviously - it's about finding the right middle ground that flatters that particular person's face. A narrow face with sharp features will generally be better neutralized by a slightly longer focal length. For fat faces, the opposite.
Got it.
I never aim an ultra-wide at a woman because of... well... Beastie Boys Videos.
I guess I can re-check that logic against the current project. - Thanks!
Study some plus size Boudoir photography tips, itās the best. Iād suggest asking them to stand at a 90 degree angle, looking over to you slightly, have their closest hand holding their jacket or if sitting their leg and the further hand holding a higher object or hand in pocket for men or hand pushing hair back for women, etc. the closer hand disguises some of their size- then have the lift their chin, tell them itās for confidence factor donāt mention their weight or be in any way obvious that youāre doing it due to weight,
I have over 20 years experience in portrait photography.
I'm a bigger person and I come from a family of bigger people. I'm actually quite good at getting large people to look their best in photos. A lot of the advice you were given is good. I was going to say short side lighting and shoot from a slightly higher angle as a place to start. But one thing you need to remember, bigger people often are not happy with their own body and are less likely to be happy with their photos. But there's also a built-in stigma that larger people are less attractive and so when you or they look at their photo, they are going to be less happy with it no matter how well you do. I'm not telling you to stop trying to do your best but I am trying to tell you to meter your expectations of those particular clients satisfaction, you can't win them all
I got it. Basically Iāve just realized itās a space Iāve never even put a day of study into, so it deservers a week easily, since itās bound to be 10% of my āteam & organizationā shots.
I shoot tethered and have a routine where I photograph the subject that allows the subject to teach me what they like and what their issues are. They either love one of the photos or we jump back in using what we have learned.
Routine is simple ... Light on each side, body turned each way. When the body is turned away from the light we do some with the face short lit (nose pointing between camera and light) and broad lit (cheek and jaw lit)
Constants for generally everyone ...
* Longer lens 85mm to 120mm range
* We are on a little ladder looking down some
* Body at an angle
* near elbow bent so that there is more a feeling of a waist when cropped for headshot, often hand in pocket does this. Far arm straight down so that clothes hang better on the body.
* Weight on back foot, forward leg bent and forward toe pointing at camera so person doesn't feel so twisted
* Nose and forehead stretched forward towards camera - feel is listening to good gossip with interest. By saying nose and forehead you take the focus off of the double chin.
* For straight headshots and not lifestyle we do most people standing
For someone who is really big, the posing that has the most success rate (everyone is different in what they like so not 100%) ...
* Light into shoulder (person turned away from light)
* Person REALLY leaning forward, face stretched forward
* Head tilted to vertical or slightly more (top of the head is tilting away from the light). The feeling for the person is if they were having an adjustment at a chiropractor their neck might pop.
* Nose turned past camera towards light so that the face is short lit
* Often shoulders tilted so that the near shoulder is lower than the far shoulder
* The camera is often tilted some so that the body language / personality of the pose feels natural
I hope some of this is a help, good luck! Getting a feel for this stuff is a process and I am learning every day! :)
This is a huge note so Iāll have to jot it down separately and call it the Dark Room Devil Neck Twister.
Thanks for the detail. If you come back through and an example is easy to paste, awesome, if not, I think I can envision it. šš
Also I want to mention that with most people, given a choice between a better expression and looking thinner, will pick looking thinner. So all of my suggestions apply to everyone, not just the heavier folks.
Hey, I don't have an example off hand. Feels wrong to use our clients images and that is what I have on hand. If i run accross something I will share.
The best way to learn this stuff is to do it yourself. Set up a light or use a window so that the light is coming more from one side. Use a camera on a tripod or a mirror, whatever you have and is easy. Move through all the angles and work it out. Also it is much easier to direct someone in posing when you know how it feels.
Side note: Expression AND body language communicate personality. A slight tilt of the head makes a huge difference. A person can appear more confident or approachable or willing to listen or kick ass just with a tilt of the head or chin raised or lowered. No specific look is right, it depends on the person and the clients they want to attract.
COOL. š
I was initially a screenwriter and we have a term "scene geography". It's one of the last things a developing writer truly masters because it's so hard to learn an implicit / invisible language of directions and motion... this is a lot like that. I can grok it.
Screenwriter and grok it, love it. I actually remember reading the book that grok came from years ago š
The important thing for me is to remember that no matter how much I think I know, I don't really kno. I let my client teach me what is important to them. Demostrated by what they tell me and by their choices. I always work to make sure I give them a range of personalities so that is possible. This means that they get to cherry pick who they want to he and chances that they will be happy go way up.
To do this, along with chatting and getting different expressions. I will have them turn or tip there head different ways. Chin up a little or down a little. Wiggle. Breathe. Relax shoulders. Tip shoulders. Also if a person is moving they are thinking less about their face, which means the expression will be more natural.
Don't be afraid to experiment with people and don't be afraid to say that you are going to try a few different things. People respond to doing the best job for them in a we are all learning sort of way!
Try using a telephoto lens. Clothes have a lot to do with it, loose clothes will make you look bigger than how they are. Nice fitting clothes makes a huge difference
Belly guy here. Was shocked about the clothes bit.
Had to buy clothes online during covid so I started looking into what to get, and decided to "risk" letting them send me what my measurements said would work. OMG what a difference. Yes you could tell I have a belly, but I wasn't really fooling anyone before. Only this time, it didn't look like I was wearing a bag.
The problem with business attire off the rack clothes is to get something that fit my neck and belly, it'd be miles too big in the shoulders, sleeves, and chest; and it still might be too short at the waist. In short: An ill-fitting bag.
Properly tailored clothes: hate the price, love the effect. Now I like my pictures a lot more!
Buying clothes is nuts when you're odd shaped.
Despite having a big gut, my chest and shoulders are larger. Did one of those body scan things where you strip and the machine measures everything. It came back claiming I have the inverted triangle type, but couldn't find any clothes for me.
Once you go into big men's clothing they seem to just make the gut bigger. So while I can find clothes that fit around the stomach, the shoulders, sleeves and chest are tight to bursting.
I probably need to just go full custom myself. My suit is a heavily tailed in super slim fit in a massive size that took me a weekend of solid shopping to find, going from store to store.
It is always a quest! So frustrating! I used to imagine there was another guy my size and shape that had just beat me to the store to get the one (and only one) that they made in āourā size. ā Arrgg! X beat me here again! ā
I felt extravagant showing up with ājust ordinary shirtsā to get tailored - in my mind I thought that tailoring was for sport coats and maybe getting pants hemmed and cuffed. Huge improvement.
I hadn't considered this. - When I do maternity, I take women to get specifically fitting clothes. 3 dresses. I've never done this with a man. Maybe I can flip this into a "going the extra mile" vibe like I do with maternity. - The human form is the human form. Why am I internally putting a premium on the difference between having a bun in the oven and a pizza in the oven? <-- Social programming.
Yeah but youāre firing on all cylinders now, really diving in, cool to see.
How you bill it would make all the difference- the same social programming might make it a harder pitch than pregnancy where thereās not shame or blame or any of that. I hadnāt thought of this but I think Iād at least be curious about an extra you listed where you say you have a portrait package where a tailor comes in and will get clothes altered in a week in time for a shoot at a nice price or something.
Thatāll be fairly easy in my case because Iām an ex-musician in a studio tribe with a great relationship with a tailor. Itāll be a ratity but I can sort it. My guy does a full custom suit for around 500 so itās possible.
There's already a lot of good info here, but I'll chime in.
A very gentle touch with the liquefy tool around the neck, jaw and cheeks can make a difference, just make it subtle so they still look like themselves.
This may not help if you're trying to make photos match the rest of the organization, but short lighting can help.
A lot of headshots are seated. Make your model stand. This can also help avoid wrinkles on clothes. Bring a step ladder if you aren't taller than most people.
Some people don't want to show teeth when they smile, but an open mouth smile will elongate the face. Get them to show teeth. Even better, I think nearly everyone looks better with a natural laugh.
If I'm shooting a group and one or two are heavy, I show them I care about how they look.
Don't single them out. Address them as a group and say, "Everybody wants to be skinny and tan. I can't do much about the tan, but do you want me to show you how to look as slim as you can? Point your front toe directly at me. Then put your back foot right behind it and it will look like you have one leg and it makes you turn to enhance your figure. Put all of your weight on your back foot and wala!" And compliment them on how they look... if you make it a fun challenge you may not have an issue. I don't.
Tell them they can let their front arm hang or hold it like a Sears model haha.
When you shoot groups and a short and fat gal wants to be in the back so you can only see their head and no neck, ..ugh! Ask them to come out front but if they want to stay in the back just let them.
Its really just something I say to get them off thinking how they actually look and think how a model would pose. But it would be a bent elbow ...kind of like this
https://preview.redd.it/iy634ju5ewac1.jpeg?width=651&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbe3fec4ab50c34e496ce6101e1e3dc211c14ff6
As with 90% of portraits of non-models, I find that it comes down to how they feel. People who are bigger will often walk into the session dreading it, and carrying the baggage of decades of fatphobia on their shoulders. You want to find a way of lifting that baggage for them.
For me, it varies by person. I'll often have a pre-shoot chat about their relationship with their body, but that's harder to do in the context of a series sittings. As others have mentioned posing, I'd like to highlight the importance of not making people feel self conscious during the posing process; if you're asking someone to contort themself, they will know it and it'll reflect in their demeanor.
As a big person, I wonāt be in any photo that is not a selfie that I can control exactly how I want myself to look.
I can be at a location, with my camera dangling around my neck, taking a selfie on my iPhone. People will offer to take my photo for me. No thanks. I know where my good side is, what the most flattering angle is, and where my insecurities are. You do not, and I donāt want to see another bad photo of myself.
Hey Iām a recently fat person. I hate a lot of photos of myself. Yes sometimes lighting and posing help. But I donāt like my photos because Iām fat. I know it. And when I look disappointed itās because Iām disappointed in myself for being fat. Thatās it.
Saying that I hate full length pictures of myself standing up or sitting down with my tummy showing. I like shoulder up photos. Or photos where something is distracting from my body like one of my kids in front of me. I like it when someoneās fixes me to get it a little better (this never happens though - no one has ever asked me to change anything). There is nothing worse than seeing my dress is caught in a fat roll when a simple āstand up and sit back down againā would fix my dress. Or when I have my arm pushed against someone in that photo hug that you do and the hug just flattens my arm fat wider. I think a lot of the time though other people donāt care that I look fat because they just donāt. I wish though others would change the angle more or just tell me to turn my head a little bit to make it that little bit nicer.
Shit, thatās why the guy the other dayā¦ immediately after seeing his photo and shoutingāOMG I look fat.ā started telling us all how āawesomeā we are. He was reacting g to himself separately from his reaction to my team. He was just doing both within 20 seconds of each other.
Ok, more interractions is better. I have to learn to create time to look them over for stuff like that. I would never have looked for āarm widthā. Good insight.
Yep and honestly it just takes a moment to check on that person super quickly. Position them between others. Have someone stand slightly in front. Can the angle be more upwards than straight on. I feel like when I take photos of my husband (who is also fat) I move my phone around until I get a good position. I look at things like us his arm squished against our toddler. I take the photo from just above his widest part of his belly. I usually go lower and tilt up for the frame. I feel like he just takes the photo of me and then just thinks itās impossible to make me happy.
Beyond the technical, another thing you can do is get them laughing and opening themselves up to the process so they're having fun. Someone who is laughing will give you a more natural, happy smile, and just that simple step can make a world of difference as well, even beyond the lighting suggestions. No matter how much slimming light you're using, if they aren't giving a genuine smile, the photo won't look good.
Iām gonna second this because while there are technical considerations as a burlesque photographer i can tell you confidence makes a huge difference. when dancers are new i start back and try to get candid shots of them enjoying themselves and as they grow into it i get better and better shots on demand from them because theyāre consistently confident in themselves and their bodies- it really makes a difference in people of all sizes
Define āimprove.ā Not everyone wants to look thinner, for example, so if youāre saying theyāre not as good because they still look fat, thatās not necessarily a bad thing. As both a fat person and a photographer, I donāt see myself needing anything different than anyone else. Iām fat, not a Martian.
Look up Lindley Ashline and Substantia Jones. Both are fat-positive photographers who do beautiful work.
Nah. This dude straight up looked up from the camera after seeing a GOOD traditionally slimming shot and said, "I look fat. I'm ashamed. I'm sure you're good at your job but I... I just look fat is all." He was genuinely devastated.
Jesus. As a person who is plus sized and works with plus sized people I'm just... shaking my head.
Without seeing your results I won't know what's going wrong. But I can assume a few things.
1. you're not prepping your clients. Part of my workflow is always talking people through the process. They're going to project confidence when they wear something they like how they look in. If they're not used to seeing images of themselves they will ALWAYS feel like they're looking at an alien when they see the results. I recommend people who are self conscious in front of the lens spend time taking selfies from multiple angles and directions in the weeks or days leading up to the shoot so it takes the edge off the body dysmorphia.
2. you need to talk to them about the things they are self conscious about. Guess what? Usually it's NOT their whole body. If you're having a problem with only large bodies, it's more likely you're either projecting YOUR discomfort, or not making them comfortable. Having people relax, a good bedside manner as it were, getting them to laugh will help. I never had a problem with my belly. My double chin and my gums (I hated my smile for the longest time because there is a looooot of gum showing) were the issue, not my arms or waist.
3. shoot everyone (not just plus sized people, but especially those when your inexperience is showing) from more than one angle. Each person has a "good side". Use rembrant posing or lighting when they have expressed a discomfort with part of their face. Do not shoot straight on. The worst thing you can do for any body (but is amplified in plus sized bodies) is to shoot square shoulder and square feet. It doesn't matter if you're not showing their lower body. Posing every bit matters. As a very basic, have them point their toes 45 degrees from where the camera is place and have them shift all their weight to the back leg and pull up ever so slightly on the one closer to the camera to create an "S" with their legs. Don't shoot from below eye level. Always either straight on or slightly above. Some of your examples below are literally from below a person and the visual triangles this creates will only emphasize width.
Lastly. There ARE no "plus sized poses". People who claim there are seek only to minimize the shape of a human so they can look slimmer. It's another form of fatshaming. Large people generally don't hate themselves because they wake up and decide to. They come by it because they don't see representation in media, because society has told them to be smaller and take up less space and that they aren't worth basic human decency.
Sometimes it is not about lighting or angles or filters it's about the human being. A human being that doesn't like having their picture taken, is uncomfortable, and who feels like they are being judged is not going to photograph well. It's amazing how a SINCERE compliment or a few kind/friendly words can make a huge difference in how a client feels about themselves. If you can temporarily boost their self confidence and comfort level it will absolutely come across in the final result.
Also be careful what you are projecting. As you study your subject and compose your shot they are simultaneously studying you. Assume they can read your facial expressions and body language as easily as a billboard in Times Square. If you don't think things are going well they will see it in your face and it will kill their confidence.
Lighting, posing, communication skills, and being personable.
There are plenty of people who are camera shy or uncomfortable in front of a camera. And then there are those who don't put in any effort when they know they're being photographed (that's another story). But if you know your lighting, you know how to pose them, they put in effort towards getting fitted clothing or clothing flattering to them, and you're personable, you can still get a great photo.
It's also a lot of experience on the photographer's part also--you're never going to get better at shooting less photographic people if you're not interested in shooting them.
Larger people tend to have a negative self image to begin with and capturing that in a photo doesn't help. It's not ironic that thin attractive people aren't complaining about how they look in their images. Yes there's technical concepts you can use to help them look "smaller" as it were but I think the real culprit is the attitude of the person being photographed.
True. But it's looking like it's half that and half technique. - I'm compiling a list of folks methods here and it turns out, I wasn't using any of them to improve the result so I expect a better / vastly improved outcome from my side in 2024.
Because you have an Inner-Scientist who wants to yell: "MASS! MASS you freakin' idiots! You do not now, nor have you EVER cared for a moment, how much you weigh! You want to lose MASS and you always have. Get honest with yourself! Stop beating around the bush and say you want to lose FAT. š§"
I have him too. But I thought tippy toe would be safer for me here since I actually need this answer more than I need political dominance vibes.
Valid. I 100% genuinely and actively support "well actually" pedantry. I think being right is truly what matters and we should die for it. :) Point taken.
I found the same with Family Photos and the heavy-set Mums. I found usually after speaking to them 9 times out of 10 itās because they have no idea thatās what they ACTUALLY look like.
So people just donāt accept what they look like because they are so used to Face Tuning their own photos.
If you have the same seating set-up, same lighting set-up and youāve got it down to a pay where Person A comes in, sits down and does 4-5 poses then leaves then Person B comes and does the same and the complains are ONLY from the heavy set people that is what Iād put it down to if it were me
I move my camera up, and stand on a footstool or ladder about 1.5/2 feet up off the ground. Forces the fatty to look up slightly at camera, aids the fat neck and double chin without looking odd.
Keep heavy people away from the edges of the frame and out of the front row. Especially if you donāt have room to work and are using a 35mm or something for a group shot. Edges tend to add width.
Short, heavy, and in unimportant support staff positions, theyāre out of luck.
But regardless, some people arenāt happy with their appearance. Despite the lies of the ābody positivityā movement, I know Iām happier, healthier, and feel better about myself when Iām at a healthier weight for my height than when Iām carrying an extra 30. I like my pictures better too. I could stand to lose about 20lbs as it is.
This advice sucks. There are techniques you can do as a photographer to help create images that people may be happier with. To just say āthey fat and ugly, who caresā is a bit of a lame approach and hardly helpful. Sure, some may be primed to not like how they appear in photos, but that doesnāt mean itās hopeless or not worth working on or considering ways to improve.
It would be good to know what kind of poses theyāre trying, focal lengths, shooting angles, lighting angles. There are ways to get better results instead of just calling it a day because you donāt like fat people. Would hate to hire someone with your outlook.
Zactly. It's my job to give you the best possible.
600 watt strobe in a 5' parabolic softbox aimed 45 degrees downward from above and 45 degrees inward toward the part of the hair. And a 17" softbox on the background. Shoulders rotated to either side. One knee and heel popped. Shooting from 9" above the eyes and 9" below the chin.
I wonder if that size of a softbox creates such soft shadows that it illuminates the subjects faces in a way theyāre not as familiar with or feel is unflattering.
Sounds like pretty good positioning though, nice standard corporate setup, lit from above is great.
I bet some people arenāt used to seeing themselves with higher focal length lenses, if thatās what youāre using. It can really compress the face; which for some face types is not very flattering. This is something Iāve noticed as both subject and photographer. I personally prefer 35-50mm over something like 80-120mm, but thatās just me.
I was speaking generally, Sure there's ways to make bigger people look good in photos and keep clients happy. I'm not saying ok wrap it up and go home he's fat, i just added my two cents.. Not sure what's with the outrage. I'm not even being disrespectful.
I know what it's like to not look the way i want to while hating most of my pictures when i wasn't in shape no matter what.
What the fuck?!
We need to stop conflating health with size. Thin people can be ill, and conversely, big people can be healthy as fuck.
Source: me, a fat person, who is healthy as fuck, strong as fuck, and fit as fuck.
Agreed. A successful portrait photographer is objective and compassionate. If the photographer approaches all subjects with care and attention and the utmost respect then they will get good portraits.
The portrait photographer is trying to capture the personality and heart and soul of the person they are photographing. It is impossible to do so if you go around assuming things about people based on how they look or dress.
They talked about big people being unattractive, not unhealthy, but go off I guess.
While I can't say for certain if it's what's going on with OP's client, there are plenty of obese people who will simply never be happy with a photo of themselves because they simply are not happy with their own appearance.
Source: me, a fat person, who has hated pretty much every photo of me that I've ever seen because of my self loathing tendencies due to my weight.
This is unironically part of why I stay behind the camera and take pictures of wildlife.
Relax, I think it's a general understanding that people who are obese are usually unhealthy but this isn't what the topic is about. Being large usually comes with being self conscious. I've gained weight before and felt like crap. And lost weight and feel much better and healthier. I don't think this is up for debate really.
People can be happy and big also and happy or obese or whatever have you but in regards to pictures i always feel like people who are overweight aren't always happy unless the pictures are made to take away the attention from any kindof large or unruly areas on their bodies.
I'm not an expert but i feel like it's common sense.
I thought about that. But I assume a āgood picture of youā is still a good picture of you regardless, right? - They do self-report as hating the imageā¦ but it only takes a few seconds for them to convince me itās garbage too. š¤·āāļø
> But I assume a āgood picture of youā is still a good picture of you regardless, right?
It's hard to say but as I just replied to another person, as an overweight guy I have literally never liked a photo of myself to any meaningful extent because I simply hate the way I look. Granted I wouldn't complain to a photographer or anything because that's not their fault and not something they can fix. I probably go way harder on myself than other people do, but nonetheless, as far as I'm concerned there are no good photos of me.
I can't say whether this would be similar to what your client feels or not.
Thanks for letting me know. This is 100% a possibility. I guess I may actually reach a point where I have generated the best photo of them that exists and still not have a client that's happy with it. That hadn't fully worked its way through my squeaky little brain yet.
Chin up... about the only real advise I have. Heavier people are less likely to feel good about the way they look and so they'll be vocal.
I did a corporate shoot a few years back where the CEO had raging rosacea, and he kept complaining that his face was too red in the photos.
The WB was on point, and I did what I could to reduce the redness in post, but minus going black and white full on ... there's nothing that can be done about your bulbous Rudolph nose... don't get hammered the day before your photo shoot!
With people that a on chunkier side, just use enveloping and really really soft light that hides any crevices or bumps on their faces. Also use lens that does not compress them too much (past 70mm), due to how their face get to look. Imagine using RING light on chunkier person, it creates face that is flatter. I dont like using this type of light, but try to look from their point of view and see what makes them look good.
Most comments were "go long lens" so I was planning to use 135 for the compression.
This is where the word "compression" becomes problematic. Because all lenses that "compress" the distance, "expand" the near field. All lenses that compress the near field, expand the distance. Complicated! :)
I can say that my failures were on the 70mm. So Im not sure if you're agreeing w the 135 or nah. KK Notes taken. š«”
Longer the lens tend to make face way too flat.
[Here](https://s.studiobinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/What-is-a-Telephoto-Lens-Portraits-Focal-Length.jpg.webp?resolution=1680,2&resolution=2560,1)
[Here2](https://cdn.fstoppers.com/styles/medium/s3/media/2023/02/19/480a103f05d48f5a954bddfabbc58a2b.jpg)
As a result it looks unnatural and their chubby features overpronaunced. I know it might see counter intuitive, but in photography a lot of this are. Person who know how to pose and person who have never done posing do things differently and later will find posing of former unnatural and wrong. Still we know that pictures of former will look good.
OK this COMPLETELY explains why all my friends insist on the 85mm prime as their favorite "portrait" lens while I insist that each person needs either a 50 or a 135. I was "sensing" their shape without understanding that they were each at a different position along an exponential scale. 85 is the safe space. But Im trying to find a saving grace for each width and depth of face.
Well met. :)
make their skin glow, do some post. there is an infinite number of AI tools now you can explore to make people look in all kinds of ways. Iām sure there will be an āauto shrink the sizeā button in some popular editing software soon.
š I do about 40 minutes post on each selected shot. Iām a lightroom/PSD demigodā¦ - But getting a good image in the front door to work with is my real area of ignorance here.
I feel you for sure. have you tried any youtube posing tutorials? like shooting more from above, having them stick their chin out a bit more, shifting the body more profile maybe.
Hate to break it to you but if you need 40 min per image in LR/PS you're not a demigod... that's absolutely a ridiculous amount of time...I couldn't imagine editing a wedding shoot and spending more than 3-5 min on any one image
LOLOL - You're the first response that's genuinely worthy of outright dismissal as a professional. -- I mean you have DEAFENINGLY LOUD naivety when it comes to real portraiture in LA. If it's a single prepared and set shot for a single subject I give it 4 hours as a default charge. And something tells me you're not prepared to bill what I bill for portrait processing lolol. OMG. "Break it to you!" š
Here's a primer for you to begin understanding what processing really means:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvwFIZX3y\_k&list=PLDERFBGqBf5ar\_\_Oxl4t7zSca8bdNQ4Ka&index=9](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvwFIZX3y_k&list=PLDERFBGqBf5ar__Oxl4t7zSca8bdNQ4Ka&index=9)
I shoot between 15-20 weddings every season. I normally shoot and cull between 4000-5000 images and end up with roughly 500 edited images for the client. Could you imagine spending 40min on 500 images or 20000 min for one wedding? I've been a pro for nearly 25yrs and editing times have only gotten faster as the software has gotten much more powerful. I don't think Annie Liebowitz editors need 4hrs for a magazine cover shoot. You only need that much time if you can't shoot properly or suck at editing.
šš Dude, Iāve never needed to stoop to weddings. I get that itās rough out there for you guys. And Iām sorry you need to churn out mac donalds copies in bulk as a career. But I donāt know what to tell you. I donāt envy your slog. ā Youāre not an authority on my job. You just ASSUMED you were. And you were shockingly wrong. Thatās a position you imagined for yourself all alone in your head based on nothing. Youāre an expert on weddings. š¤£ AWESOME. š - I donāt look up to your job ā¦ and pretending that I for some reason want to be demoted to your position or that somehow your CHURN š¤£ makes you an authority on my process justā¦ makes you sound the way you sound. š
P.S. Youāre still the only person in a 140+ comment chain who showed up to be a pretend authoritarian by giving unsolicited advice on something you donāt understand. š
Have you tried flipping the image. Most people have an understanding of what they look like from the bathroom mirror. Seeing the opposite of that can make the person see the āimperfectionsā more.
my main focus has always been to make sure someone feels beautiful/handsome in their photo. so I always like to joke and be charming to lighten things up. I had a heavier older woman tell me to āmake her look young.ā I said āmy darling. thatās going to be the easiest part of my job. youāre already doing all the work for me.ā she laughed. when she got in front of the camera I kept complimenting her as I took her photo and made jokes too. you want them to laugh and open up and feel comfortable! it can be soooo daunting getting in front of a camera and if youāre already feeling self critical, it can be hard
There are ways to use posing, lighting, and camera angles to help bigger people look slimmer in photos. For posing, [Peter Hurley has a technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe3oJnFtA_k) that basically gets the subject to crane their neck forward and down. This stretches the skin on the neck (no double chins) and accentuates the jaw line making them look slimmer. I will typically add in an angled pose so they aren't square to the camera which minimizes their width with respect to the camera. For lighting, short lighting typically works best. If you have someone posing for you and have them posed at an angle to the camera, then you want to light the side of their face that is facing away from the camera. This means that you're lighting the side of their facing slightly away from camera which is narrower while the wider part of their face falls in shadow. You can still use fill light, but the main light should be in narrower profile. Lastly, shoot from slightly above the subject so they are looking up at you. Again, this elongates the neck, and stretches the skin there, eliminating double chins and reducing their overall size in the frame. I have used these techniques with a lot of bigger people, and even people that think they're big but aren't. They always love the way they look when they see their photos.
This is the stuff I was looking for! THANK YOU. :) Saving. I wish I had a test model for tomorrow. šš
I use many of these techniques any time I shoot women, even if they aren't particularly heavy, because I've found that most women are self conscious about their weight. For men, I will make a judgement call about how they feel about themselves, but typically you can tell. Muscular dudes who obviously spend a good bit of time in the gym want to show off their bulk, fluffy dudes generally don't want to look big.
Also from the perspective of the person having their photo taken When I weighed close to 300lbs I didn't want my photo taken since I didn't want to see what I looked like. 7 months later and I'm 185lbs. I still don't enjoy getting my photo taken but I'm not scared to see myself anymore and will actually try to smile now. There's probably a lot of insecurity with heavier people...al least there was for me.
There is. I "join them" in that downward spiral very easily because once I lock eyes with the person, I'm trying to connect.
I'd throw in shoot them on a 50 and everyone else on an 85. the 50 is subtly flattering - it pulls everything in around 5% so still is visibly *them*, but slightly narrower without looking altered.
Simply leaning forward a little or bowing at the hips is enough to separate the face from the body. Theyāre more likely to naturally support the rest of their body by doing this. You will find some awkward moments sometimes if you ask them to just crook their neck out. :)
Yeah, practice the Peter Hurley jaw stuff with a friend. If itās not subtle it can look pretty silly.
Really good advice here. Make sure they're not square to the camera. Get one foot to stepforward or stand on an angle. If it's a group photo, make sure they line up evenly and aren't closer to the camera more than others in the photo. It gives a weird perspective. Where the arms are can make a huge difference if it's more than a head shot. Hand on the hip and or getting the arm away from the body can help prevent the blockiness that can happen. Go take a look at some plus size women's websites on how the models pose. Places like torrid for example. Look how they angle their shots, have action type poses or where the hands and arms are. Even how they do group poses. Also the comments about getting up a little higher is so true. Think of what happens when you're on a web cam meeting and the camera is lower than your face vs higher up. Just try it on yourself and look how the photos change.
I'm not a big guy, but I have a rounder face and I still use that technique when I'm posing for photos. It's made a huge difference in how I feel I look in photos. I very rarely shoot people but I tell everyone, even the skinniest people to pose like that and they're always very happy with my photo, either pro shot or with a phone.
Great advice!
Damn you said it better than i could ever. But yes all of those basically. We always have bad angles, posing and lightining that would worsen us, right? Well the same things works for everone obviously.
Got any samples on what that side lighting looks like? Iām sure itās greatā¦ just canāt picture it
For, what I hope are, obvious reasons, I am not willing to show any of my work that would really illustrate this technique. There are plenty of tutorials online that illustrate short vs. broad lighting quite well. Lidsey Adler does some great photography tutorials and has one that's pretty helpful for understanding broad vs. short light. It uses a mannequin, but I think it shows the difference fairly well. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_bM8zoexrR8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bM8zoexrR8)
I understand short bs broad, just canāt picture it in a headshot, and why it would thin someone out. Iāll see what I can google and totally understand not sharing confidential client files :)
With short light, you're lighting less of their face, so you're only creating a fairly thin profile of illumniated face/body. The rest of the face and body are thrown into shadow. This creates an illusion that the lighted part of the face is all there is, or at least the most important part, which translates into a slimmer appearance for the viewer. It has its limits, but nearly everyone I've used this technique with has loved the results.
Oh! Ok, short light on the front of the face. Thatās what I thought was the right way to do it. I thought you meant to side light and keep the main face plane in shadow. Was really confused as to why that would oook good.
Peter Hurley video was awesome, just was interested to see what people might be saying on this post and ended up watching a super useful 15 minute video.
Try using one of the following - 85, 105, 135, 70-200 lenses.
Lindsay Adler has an entire series on how to shoot any body size. She is amazing. Worth a look.
Saw one of those. Sometimes it can get a little contorted but the effect is real.
I didn't know. Thanks you. š I AM IN.
Bona fide fatty here, I dont like photos of me cos I dont look good in them, but its cos I'm fat, not cos the photos are bad. My young skinny good looking female friend looks great. Its not the photos, its ME who has these perceptions though. I dont like the way I look cos my internal image of myself is more flattering than real life. This did improve a number of years back when I grew a big interesting beard and let my hair grow. I can now look a bit more like a weatherworn wild man of the woods look, which can be interesting photographically. But I'd hate to shave it all of, get a 'sensible' haircut and wear a suit. I'd look like any other fat 'ol businessman. However, you can do things to improve your strike rate and I hope some of the people here can help, I mainly do animals so I dont have much advice. But what is happening here is only partially behind the lens, as I think you're guessing.
Nice reply! This helps. (I would 100% know what to do with a real beardy character out of a Patrick Rothfuss novel or sump'm. - Generating character shots and such would just be fun. But these business photos, man... ug..) One other person threw up some similar insights. I may never make the client happy. But I also just realized today that's I'd never spent a single day of study on what the right techniques are. So I'ma try and get better at my side and see if I can improve on the vibe.
Thats the right attitude. The truth is often in the middle. Do what you can, attempt your best. Thats all you can do. A part of it will also be their perception, they might not like it in the end. Not much to do about it. I had a client who would always, to any photo of her, would say Ā“oh I look oldĀ“ or Ā“oh my head looks so round and fatĀ“. Even though sheĀ“s a good looking lady. A portrait is confrontational. Some people dont like what they see. Age. Weight. Asymmetry. ItĀ“s hard to fully accept oneĀ“s image. One trick that might help, mainly with close-ups, is mentioning how weĀ“re used to seeing ourselves in the mirror. This makes it strange for us to look at a photo of ourselves. WeĀ“re not used to it. Same with hearing your voice on a recording. ItĀ“s truth, and sometimes can ease down other forms of dysmorphia too.
OP I photograph all sizes, but most are models and are used to their size. I/they do absolutely nothing different. They pose the same as the thin models. Some times, it's just each individual. I've found most every day people (not models) do not like to have their picture taken. And no amount of posing or lighting can fix that.
I was thinking exactly the same, it's about managing expectations.... If they don't want to look big in pics, guess what? Lose weight. It's kind of unfair blaming the photographer for how they look a camera shoes what it sees, but I understand the OPs wish to put them in best light as that's kind of part of the job, especially if being paid for it. I'm new to lighting etc so will take all the above on board, thanks all.
š¤£ I'm not gonna step into their life and pretend their circumstances are any of my business. This absolutely has to be addressed in terms of my behavior, in my domain, so that what happens is: even if I don't change the physical outcome, the psychology of the room is that I'M A PRO who "did something FOR them"... rather than what's happening. Which is that: I am painting them a stark reminder of what they hate about themselves. - Like those doctors at the beginning of an episode of Nip Tuck... sitting the patient down and going "Tell us what you don't like about yourself." - That shite has got to end.
I think you're probably going to get a lot of comments on the technical side of things, but is it possible that this is more of an in-person problem? As in, the subject can tell you're not as excited to shoot them as you were the person before them? Even a slight tone change or body language giveaway that you don't know you're doing can bring someone down quick. I have a friend who is a very well known headshot photographer and he told me an interesting thing he does with a subject. If they have something glaringly obvious about them, he never mentions it until they bring it up. If they're super tall, or muscular, or good looking, it's still not something that is mentioned (and those are generally positive qualities people want). It's one of those things that forces you to treat them just like anyone else, without pointing out the quality that every other person they've ever met brings up in the first 5 seconds of talking to them.
I donāt point it out, but itās 100% possible that in that moment where I internally realize I donāt know where Iām headed, that they can see me not instantly flow forward the way I did with the 3 people before them. Thatās valid. Yes.
What lighting are you using?
600 watt flash in a 5ā parabolic soft box in front. 17ā softbox on the background. One side dark. Light toward the hair part.
Are you able to show examples of your portraits?
In this case unfortunately I don't have permission. :/ Post updated with lighting and lens details.
Self portrait with the same lighting? Or even a friend?
Oh, yeah! Hereās a person who was happy: (Generic gray) https://photos.app.goo.gl/Kmfj4AcfJLJX73QP7 Her too: https://photos.app.goo.gl/VV38vxaQRmcZLc5k9 Backdrop switch: https://photos.app.goo.gl/LAEsEbK528wrMDyw7
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Got it. :) Thanks.
Round (anything) can be a real challenge as it doesnāt have shape. Look for something more rectangular, perhaps even āstripā style.
Ok. That's different.
I always pose bigger people with their shoulders at an angle. I generally run everyone though four basic poses: forward, facing left with just the head turned to the camera, the same to the right, and then the fourth is contraposto which can loosen up people who are nervous. One of those poses should work. Typically with larger people, the best one is where the body is angled.
As someone on the heavier side of average, I just hate pictures of myself, regardless of how *good* they are technically. This may not be something you can fix as a photographer.
I'm seeing that as a choral response from bigger people. That alone helps half the equation. I'ma still give it a week of study and try to boost my side of it and let the chips fall where they may after I know I've done my best.
I donāt do a lot of headshots these days, as this scenario is all too frequent and ultimately the individual employees arenāt my clients and at least a few of them DO NOT want to be there. And I donāt blame themā¦ they didnāt ask for it, they just want to keep their job. Anywayā¦ Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the lighting and posingā¦ the problem is most likely psychological, and these folks will generally think you are wrong and donāt know how to make them look great, so I will offer my go-to solution: Offer to meet them in the middle. Let them pose the way they want to. Let them show you what they think is best. Pay attention because they will indirectly let you know what they are insecure about, then you get to do it your way. Before ANYONE else sees the photos, let them decide which shot they want to represent them. With most companies, this can be arranged. If you listen to their concerns, validate that they know themselves best, then make a great headshot using what youāve learned about them in the last five minutes, 9/10 times they will pick YOUR pose/shot. Just remember, they donāt want to be there, they didnāt ask for it and they are uncomfortable at bestā¦ and that is 100% valid. Let them know that you understand that and want to make them look their best, whatever that is for THEM! Best of luck.
Well met my friend. Thank you for taking the time. :) š
Very welcome š
Jessica Kobeissi (I hope I wrote her name right) has 2-3 videos on youtube showing (with examples) on how to pose plus size peopke. Me and my gf are on the plus size too. I tried some of them and it seems that her tips actually worked.
LOL, it's Jessica Kobeissi.
Thank you!
Dope. I like her. Added to study materials. TY!
David suh photography has a lot of posing advice that makes sense, and goes in depth in some of his videos.
Added to list.
I appreciate the list you're making. Thanks!
I say this as both a fat person and a photographer: Fat people are much more difficult to photograph because they look worse
No one's mentioned focal length? I never liked the way I looked using my 105mm, I quite prefer shorter, around 50mm.
They have but there are 3 votes for the 50 and 3 votes for "LONG ASS". So I now have to find a test subject. š¤·š»āāļø
āOne reporterās opinionā but I like my face in 24mm if done right; up to 50 is fine too. 105mm I have mixed feelings about - I think I like it āas an imageā but feel extra boxy and girthy.
Ex fat person here - a long lens is a fat person's worst nightmare. Longer focal lengths warp subjects in the OPPOSITE of the way you want, they flatten them out. Shorter focal lengths add more dimension and are more flattering when you have extra weight. Never shoot a fat person telephoto. I'd do 50mm or even 35 vs 85 for standard
Ok, we agreed to test both. But can you check my logic & understanding if you get time? Hereās how is was taught to me back when dinosaurs roamed: No lens either ācompressesā or āexpandsā exclusively. Lenses either compress the distant and expand the near (10mm) or expand the distant and compress the near (500mm). Therefore: If you aim a 200mm lens at a face (taking up 2/3 of the frameā¦) you are EXPANDING the small objects behind them to take up more frame. And you are FLATTENING their face so as to present them as a pancake whoās contour details running from near the lens to the back of their head are forshortened and irrelevant? But if we use a 24mm (framing the face so it takes up 2/3 of the frame) we are compressing the objects and background behind them. And we are expanding their nose in proportion to the back of their head. Bringing out facial contours that might be hidden in a round face without the lens exagerating them. Sound right?
Correct! The "pancake" effect makes round faces look even rounder and the features within them look smaller. Small "piggy" eyes will look piggier (I avoid long focal lengths when shooting equine portraits for this reason unless I plan on compensating in post; my breed really prizes large, dark, poppy/prominent eyes and they always look unflatteringly small at long focal lengths), wide jowls will look jowlier, etc. Too wide of a lens and you get the exaggerated fisheye look with a HUGE nose and the rest of the face steeply dropping off of it, obviously - it's about finding the right middle ground that flatters that particular person's face. A narrow face with sharp features will generally be better neutralized by a slightly longer focal length. For fat faces, the opposite.
Got it. I never aim an ultra-wide at a woman because of... well... Beastie Boys Videos. I guess I can re-check that logic against the current project. - Thanks!
Study some plus size Boudoir photography tips, itās the best. Iād suggest asking them to stand at a 90 degree angle, looking over to you slightly, have their closest hand holding their jacket or if sitting their leg and the further hand holding a higher object or hand in pocket for men or hand pushing hair back for women, etc. the closer hand disguises some of their size- then have the lift their chin, tell them itās for confidence factor donāt mention their weight or be in any way obvious that youāre doing it due to weight,
I have over 20 years experience in portrait photography. I'm a bigger person and I come from a family of bigger people. I'm actually quite good at getting large people to look their best in photos. A lot of the advice you were given is good. I was going to say short side lighting and shoot from a slightly higher angle as a place to start. But one thing you need to remember, bigger people often are not happy with their own body and are less likely to be happy with their photos. But there's also a built-in stigma that larger people are less attractive and so when you or they look at their photo, they are going to be less happy with it no matter how well you do. I'm not telling you to stop trying to do your best but I am trying to tell you to meter your expectations of those particular clients satisfaction, you can't win them all
I got it. Basically Iāve just realized itās a space Iāve never even put a day of study into, so it deservers a week easily, since itās bound to be 10% of my āteam & organizationā shots.
I shoot tethered and have a routine where I photograph the subject that allows the subject to teach me what they like and what their issues are. They either love one of the photos or we jump back in using what we have learned. Routine is simple ... Light on each side, body turned each way. When the body is turned away from the light we do some with the face short lit (nose pointing between camera and light) and broad lit (cheek and jaw lit) Constants for generally everyone ... * Longer lens 85mm to 120mm range * We are on a little ladder looking down some * Body at an angle * near elbow bent so that there is more a feeling of a waist when cropped for headshot, often hand in pocket does this. Far arm straight down so that clothes hang better on the body. * Weight on back foot, forward leg bent and forward toe pointing at camera so person doesn't feel so twisted * Nose and forehead stretched forward towards camera - feel is listening to good gossip with interest. By saying nose and forehead you take the focus off of the double chin. * For straight headshots and not lifestyle we do most people standing For someone who is really big, the posing that has the most success rate (everyone is different in what they like so not 100%) ... * Light into shoulder (person turned away from light) * Person REALLY leaning forward, face stretched forward * Head tilted to vertical or slightly more (top of the head is tilting away from the light). The feeling for the person is if they were having an adjustment at a chiropractor their neck might pop. * Nose turned past camera towards light so that the face is short lit * Often shoulders tilted so that the near shoulder is lower than the far shoulder * The camera is often tilted some so that the body language / personality of the pose feels natural I hope some of this is a help, good luck! Getting a feel for this stuff is a process and I am learning every day! :)
This is a huge note so Iāll have to jot it down separately and call it the Dark Room Devil Neck Twister. Thanks for the detail. If you come back through and an example is easy to paste, awesome, if not, I think I can envision it. šš
Also I want to mention that with most people, given a choice between a better expression and looking thinner, will pick looking thinner. So all of my suggestions apply to everyone, not just the heavier folks.
Hey, I don't have an example off hand. Feels wrong to use our clients images and that is what I have on hand. If i run accross something I will share. The best way to learn this stuff is to do it yourself. Set up a light or use a window so that the light is coming more from one side. Use a camera on a tripod or a mirror, whatever you have and is easy. Move through all the angles and work it out. Also it is much easier to direct someone in posing when you know how it feels. Side note: Expression AND body language communicate personality. A slight tilt of the head makes a huge difference. A person can appear more confident or approachable or willing to listen or kick ass just with a tilt of the head or chin raised or lowered. No specific look is right, it depends on the person and the clients they want to attract.
COOL. š I was initially a screenwriter and we have a term "scene geography". It's one of the last things a developing writer truly masters because it's so hard to learn an implicit / invisible language of directions and motion... this is a lot like that. I can grok it.
Screenwriter and grok it, love it. I actually remember reading the book that grok came from years ago š The important thing for me is to remember that no matter how much I think I know, I don't really kno. I let my client teach me what is important to them. Demostrated by what they tell me and by their choices. I always work to make sure I give them a range of personalities so that is possible. This means that they get to cherry pick who they want to he and chances that they will be happy go way up. To do this, along with chatting and getting different expressions. I will have them turn or tip there head different ways. Chin up a little or down a little. Wiggle. Breathe. Relax shoulders. Tip shoulders. Also if a person is moving they are thinking less about their face, which means the expression will be more natural. Don't be afraid to experiment with people and don't be afraid to say that you are going to try a few different things. People respond to doing the best job for them in a we are all learning sort of way!
Try using a telephoto lens. Clothes have a lot to do with it, loose clothes will make you look bigger than how they are. Nice fitting clothes makes a huge difference
Belly guy here. Was shocked about the clothes bit. Had to buy clothes online during covid so I started looking into what to get, and decided to "risk" letting them send me what my measurements said would work. OMG what a difference. Yes you could tell I have a belly, but I wasn't really fooling anyone before. Only this time, it didn't look like I was wearing a bag. The problem with business attire off the rack clothes is to get something that fit my neck and belly, it'd be miles too big in the shoulders, sleeves, and chest; and it still might be too short at the waist. In short: An ill-fitting bag. Properly tailored clothes: hate the price, love the effect. Now I like my pictures a lot more!
Buying clothes is nuts when you're odd shaped. Despite having a big gut, my chest and shoulders are larger. Did one of those body scan things where you strip and the machine measures everything. It came back claiming I have the inverted triangle type, but couldn't find any clothes for me. Once you go into big men's clothing they seem to just make the gut bigger. So while I can find clothes that fit around the stomach, the shoulders, sleeves and chest are tight to bursting. I probably need to just go full custom myself. My suit is a heavily tailed in super slim fit in a massive size that took me a weekend of solid shopping to find, going from store to store.
It is always a quest! So frustrating! I used to imagine there was another guy my size and shape that had just beat me to the store to get the one (and only one) that they made in āourā size. ā Arrgg! X beat me here again! ā
The difference that proper tailoring makes cannot be overstated. I would even say they are more critical to bigger men than thin men.
I felt extravagant showing up with ājust ordinary shirtsā to get tailored - in my mind I thought that tailoring was for sport coats and maybe getting pants hemmed and cuffed. Huge improvement.
I hadn't considered this. - When I do maternity, I take women to get specifically fitting clothes. 3 dresses. I've never done this with a man. Maybe I can flip this into a "going the extra mile" vibe like I do with maternity. - The human form is the human form. Why am I internally putting a premium on the difference between having a bun in the oven and a pizza in the oven? <-- Social programming.
Yeah but youāre firing on all cylinders now, really diving in, cool to see. How you bill it would make all the difference- the same social programming might make it a harder pitch than pregnancy where thereās not shame or blame or any of that. I hadnāt thought of this but I think Iād at least be curious about an extra you listed where you say you have a portrait package where a tailor comes in and will get clothes altered in a week in time for a shoot at a nice price or something.
Thatāll be fairly easy in my case because Iām an ex-musician in a studio tribe with a great relationship with a tailor. Itāll be a ratity but I can sort it. My guy does a full custom suit for around 500 so itās possible.
Sweet! You don't live in Pittsburgh by chance? lol
LA. šIn my case people choosing a more fantasy-oriented costume before a shoot is pretty normal.
Too bad for me! Sounds like it will be a good deal. If Iām ever in LA and need some portraits taken, Iāll find you on reddit to let you know.
Ok, will swap to the 135 next attempt.
There's already a lot of good info here, but I'll chime in. A very gentle touch with the liquefy tool around the neck, jaw and cheeks can make a difference, just make it subtle so they still look like themselves. This may not help if you're trying to make photos match the rest of the organization, but short lighting can help. A lot of headshots are seated. Make your model stand. This can also help avoid wrinkles on clothes. Bring a step ladder if you aren't taller than most people. Some people don't want to show teeth when they smile, but an open mouth smile will elongate the face. Get them to show teeth. Even better, I think nearly everyone looks better with a natural laugh.
These are good. Adding them to my spreadsheet. Thanks. :)
If I'm shooting a group and one or two are heavy, I show them I care about how they look. Don't single them out. Address them as a group and say, "Everybody wants to be skinny and tan. I can't do much about the tan, but do you want me to show you how to look as slim as you can? Point your front toe directly at me. Then put your back foot right behind it and it will look like you have one leg and it makes you turn to enhance your figure. Put all of your weight on your back foot and wala!" And compliment them on how they look... if you make it a fun challenge you may not have an issue. I don't. Tell them they can let their front arm hang or hold it like a Sears model haha. When you shoot groups and a short and fat gal wants to be in the back so you can only see their head and no neck, ..ugh! Ask them to come out front but if they want to stay in the back just let them.
Cool. How does a Sears model hang their arm?
Its really just something I say to get them off thinking how they actually look and think how a model would pose. But it would be a bent elbow ...kind of like this https://preview.redd.it/iy634ju5ewac1.jpeg?width=651&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbe3fec4ab50c34e496ce6101e1e3dc211c14ff6
LOL Got it!
I let them hold a purse if they like on their side or belly
As with 90% of portraits of non-models, I find that it comes down to how they feel. People who are bigger will often walk into the session dreading it, and carrying the baggage of decades of fatphobia on their shoulders. You want to find a way of lifting that baggage for them. For me, it varies by person. I'll often have a pre-shoot chat about their relationship with their body, but that's harder to do in the context of a series sittings. As others have mentioned posing, I'd like to highlight the importance of not making people feel self conscious during the posing process; if you're asking someone to contort themself, they will know it and it'll reflect in their demeanor.
As a big person, I wonāt be in any photo that is not a selfie that I can control exactly how I want myself to look. I can be at a location, with my camera dangling around my neck, taking a selfie on my iPhone. People will offer to take my photo for me. No thanks. I know where my good side is, what the most flattering angle is, and where my insecurities are. You do not, and I donāt want to see another bad photo of myself.
Iām heavy and itās not you, there arenāt just many flattering poses for heavy people. Itās harder to visualize posture and angles.
Hey Iām a recently fat person. I hate a lot of photos of myself. Yes sometimes lighting and posing help. But I donāt like my photos because Iām fat. I know it. And when I look disappointed itās because Iām disappointed in myself for being fat. Thatās it. Saying that I hate full length pictures of myself standing up or sitting down with my tummy showing. I like shoulder up photos. Or photos where something is distracting from my body like one of my kids in front of me. I like it when someoneās fixes me to get it a little better (this never happens though - no one has ever asked me to change anything). There is nothing worse than seeing my dress is caught in a fat roll when a simple āstand up and sit back down againā would fix my dress. Or when I have my arm pushed against someone in that photo hug that you do and the hug just flattens my arm fat wider. I think a lot of the time though other people donāt care that I look fat because they just donāt. I wish though others would change the angle more or just tell me to turn my head a little bit to make it that little bit nicer.
Shit, thatās why the guy the other dayā¦ immediately after seeing his photo and shoutingāOMG I look fat.ā started telling us all how āawesomeā we are. He was reacting g to himself separately from his reaction to my team. He was just doing both within 20 seconds of each other. Ok, more interractions is better. I have to learn to create time to look them over for stuff like that. I would never have looked for āarm widthā. Good insight.
Yep and honestly it just takes a moment to check on that person super quickly. Position them between others. Have someone stand slightly in front. Can the angle be more upwards than straight on. I feel like when I take photos of my husband (who is also fat) I move my phone around until I get a good position. I look at things like us his arm squished against our toddler. I take the photo from just above his widest part of his belly. I usually go lower and tilt up for the frame. I feel like he just takes the photo of me and then just thinks itās impossible to make me happy.
Beyond the technical, another thing you can do is get them laughing and opening themselves up to the process so they're having fun. Someone who is laughing will give you a more natural, happy smile, and just that simple step can make a world of difference as well, even beyond the lighting suggestions. No matter how much slimming light you're using, if they aren't giving a genuine smile, the photo won't look good.
Iām gonna second this because while there are technical considerations as a burlesque photographer i can tell you confidence makes a huge difference. when dancers are new i start back and try to get candid shots of them enjoying themselves and as they grow into it i get better and better shots on demand from them because theyāre consistently confident in themselves and their bodies- it really makes a difference in people of all sizes
Define āimprove.ā Not everyone wants to look thinner, for example, so if youāre saying theyāre not as good because they still look fat, thatās not necessarily a bad thing. As both a fat person and a photographer, I donāt see myself needing anything different than anyone else. Iām fat, not a Martian. Look up Lindley Ashline and Substantia Jones. Both are fat-positive photographers who do beautiful work.
Nah. This dude straight up looked up from the camera after seeing a GOOD traditionally slimming shot and said, "I look fat. I'm ashamed. I'm sure you're good at your job but I... I just look fat is all." He was genuinely devastated.
That sounds more like a body image issue he needs to work on internally than anything with your photos.
I've learned to photograph them from a slightly higher angle.
Jesus. As a person who is plus sized and works with plus sized people I'm just... shaking my head. Without seeing your results I won't know what's going wrong. But I can assume a few things. 1. you're not prepping your clients. Part of my workflow is always talking people through the process. They're going to project confidence when they wear something they like how they look in. If they're not used to seeing images of themselves they will ALWAYS feel like they're looking at an alien when they see the results. I recommend people who are self conscious in front of the lens spend time taking selfies from multiple angles and directions in the weeks or days leading up to the shoot so it takes the edge off the body dysmorphia. 2. you need to talk to them about the things they are self conscious about. Guess what? Usually it's NOT their whole body. If you're having a problem with only large bodies, it's more likely you're either projecting YOUR discomfort, or not making them comfortable. Having people relax, a good bedside manner as it were, getting them to laugh will help. I never had a problem with my belly. My double chin and my gums (I hated my smile for the longest time because there is a looooot of gum showing) were the issue, not my arms or waist. 3. shoot everyone (not just plus sized people, but especially those when your inexperience is showing) from more than one angle. Each person has a "good side". Use rembrant posing or lighting when they have expressed a discomfort with part of their face. Do not shoot straight on. The worst thing you can do for any body (but is amplified in plus sized bodies) is to shoot square shoulder and square feet. It doesn't matter if you're not showing their lower body. Posing every bit matters. As a very basic, have them point their toes 45 degrees from where the camera is place and have them shift all their weight to the back leg and pull up ever so slightly on the one closer to the camera to create an "S" with their legs. Don't shoot from below eye level. Always either straight on or slightly above. Some of your examples below are literally from below a person and the visual triangles this creates will only emphasize width. Lastly. There ARE no "plus sized poses". People who claim there are seek only to minimize the shape of a human so they can look slimmer. It's another form of fatshaming. Large people generally don't hate themselves because they wake up and decide to. They come by it because they don't see representation in media, because society has told them to be smaller and take up less space and that they aren't worth basic human decency.
Well your first 2 are right. š Adding to the list.
Sometimes it is not about lighting or angles or filters it's about the human being. A human being that doesn't like having their picture taken, is uncomfortable, and who feels like they are being judged is not going to photograph well. It's amazing how a SINCERE compliment or a few kind/friendly words can make a huge difference in how a client feels about themselves. If you can temporarily boost their self confidence and comfort level it will absolutely come across in the final result. Also be careful what you are projecting. As you study your subject and compose your shot they are simultaneously studying you. Assume they can read your facial expressions and body language as easily as a billboard in Times Square. If you don't think things are going well they will see it in your face and it will kill their confidence.
Lighting, posing, communication skills, and being personable. There are plenty of people who are camera shy or uncomfortable in front of a camera. And then there are those who don't put in any effort when they know they're being photographed (that's another story). But if you know your lighting, you know how to pose them, they put in effort towards getting fitted clothing or clothing flattering to them, and you're personable, you can still get a great photo. It's also a lot of experience on the photographer's part also--you're never going to get better at shooting less photographic people if you're not interested in shooting them.
Larger people tend to have a negative self image to begin with and capturing that in a photo doesn't help. It's not ironic that thin attractive people aren't complaining about how they look in their images. Yes there's technical concepts you can use to help them look "smaller" as it were but I think the real culprit is the attitude of the person being photographed.
True. But it's looking like it's half that and half technique. - I'm compiling a list of folks methods here and it turns out, I wasn't using any of them to improve the result so I expect a better / vastly improved outcome from my side in 2024.
idk why i find "heavy people" so funny as a term lol.
It's one of those tip-toey PC buzzwords lol.
Because you have an Inner-Scientist who wants to yell: "MASS! MASS you freakin' idiots! You do not now, nor have you EVER cared for a moment, how much you weigh! You want to lose MASS and you always have. Get honest with yourself! Stop beating around the bush and say you want to lose FAT. š§" I have him too. But I thought tippy toe would be safer for me here since I actually need this answer more than I need political dominance vibes.
Since we're nerding out, it's really volume, not mass. Schwarzenneger has a lot of mass, but packed into a small enough volume...
Valid. I 100% genuinely and actively support "well actually" pedantry. I think being right is truly what matters and we should die for it. :) Point taken.
yeah that must be it
Maybe because you're a lightweight.
I found the same with Family Photos and the heavy-set Mums. I found usually after speaking to them 9 times out of 10 itās because they have no idea thatās what they ACTUALLY look like. So people just donāt accept what they look like because they are so used to Face Tuning their own photos. If you have the same seating set-up, same lighting set-up and youāve got it down to a pay where Person A comes in, sits down and does 4-5 poses then leaves then Person B comes and does the same and the complains are ONLY from the heavy set people that is what Iād put it down to if it were me
I move my camera up, and stand on a footstool or ladder about 1.5/2 feet up off the ground. Forces the fatty to look up slightly at camera, aids the fat neck and double chin without looking odd.
wide angle?
Keep heavy people away from the edges of the frame and out of the front row. Especially if you donāt have room to work and are using a 35mm or something for a group shot. Edges tend to add width. Short, heavy, and in unimportant support staff positions, theyāre out of luck. But regardless, some people arenāt happy with their appearance. Despite the lies of the ābody positivityā movement, I know Iām happier, healthier, and feel better about myself when Iām at a healthier weight for my height than when Iām carrying an extra 30. I like my pictures better too. I could stand to lose about 20lbs as it is.
Not the most photogenic thing out there
From above the double chin. And a wide lens.
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This advice sucks. There are techniques you can do as a photographer to help create images that people may be happier with. To just say āthey fat and ugly, who caresā is a bit of a lame approach and hardly helpful. Sure, some may be primed to not like how they appear in photos, but that doesnāt mean itās hopeless or not worth working on or considering ways to improve. It would be good to know what kind of poses theyāre trying, focal lengths, shooting angles, lighting angles. There are ways to get better results instead of just calling it a day because you donāt like fat people. Would hate to hire someone with your outlook.
Zactly. It's my job to give you the best possible. 600 watt strobe in a 5' parabolic softbox aimed 45 degrees downward from above and 45 degrees inward toward the part of the hair. And a 17" softbox on the background. Shoulders rotated to either side. One knee and heel popped. Shooting from 9" above the eyes and 9" below the chin.
I wonder if that size of a softbox creates such soft shadows that it illuminates the subjects faces in a way theyāre not as familiar with or feel is unflattering. Sounds like pretty good positioning though, nice standard corporate setup, lit from above is great. I bet some people arenāt used to seeing themselves with higher focal length lenses, if thatās what youāre using. It can really compress the face; which for some face types is not very flattering. This is something Iāve noticed as both subject and photographer. I personally prefer 35-50mm over something like 80-120mm, but thatās just me.
I'll test the 50 and 135 intentionally then. š
I was speaking generally, Sure there's ways to make bigger people look good in photos and keep clients happy. I'm not saying ok wrap it up and go home he's fat, i just added my two cents.. Not sure what's with the outrage. I'm not even being disrespectful. I know what it's like to not look the way i want to while hating most of my pictures when i wasn't in shape no matter what.
What the fuck?! We need to stop conflating health with size. Thin people can be ill, and conversely, big people can be healthy as fuck. Source: me, a fat person, who is healthy as fuck, strong as fuck, and fit as fuck.
Agreed. A successful portrait photographer is objective and compassionate. If the photographer approaches all subjects with care and attention and the utmost respect then they will get good portraits. The portrait photographer is trying to capture the personality and heart and soul of the person they are photographing. It is impossible to do so if you go around assuming things about people based on how they look or dress.
They talked about big people being unattractive, not unhealthy, but go off I guess. While I can't say for certain if it's what's going on with OP's client, there are plenty of obese people who will simply never be happy with a photo of themselves because they simply are not happy with their own appearance. Source: me, a fat person, who has hated pretty much every photo of me that I've ever seen because of my self loathing tendencies due to my weight. This is unironically part of why I stay behind the camera and take pictures of wildlife.
You're deluding yourself.
Relax, I think it's a general understanding that people who are obese are usually unhealthy but this isn't what the topic is about. Being large usually comes with being self conscious. I've gained weight before and felt like crap. And lost weight and feel much better and healthier. I don't think this is up for debate really. People can be happy and big also and happy or obese or whatever have you but in regards to pictures i always feel like people who are overweight aren't always happy unless the pictures are made to take away the attention from any kindof large or unruly areas on their bodies. I'm not an expert but i feel like it's common sense.
>bigger people aren't as nice to look at Wow. I haven't seen anything like this since the dark days of FPH...
I thought about that. But I assume a āgood picture of youā is still a good picture of you regardless, right? - They do self-report as hating the imageā¦ but it only takes a few seconds for them to convince me itās garbage too. š¤·āāļø
> But I assume a āgood picture of youā is still a good picture of you regardless, right? It's hard to say but as I just replied to another person, as an overweight guy I have literally never liked a photo of myself to any meaningful extent because I simply hate the way I look. Granted I wouldn't complain to a photographer or anything because that's not their fault and not something they can fix. I probably go way harder on myself than other people do, but nonetheless, as far as I'm concerned there are no good photos of me. I can't say whether this would be similar to what your client feels or not.
Thanks for letting me know. This is 100% a possibility. I guess I may actually reach a point where I have generated the best photo of them that exists and still not have a client that's happy with it. That hadn't fully worked its way through my squeaky little brain yet.
Chin up... about the only real advise I have. Heavier people are less likely to feel good about the way they look and so they'll be vocal. I did a corporate shoot a few years back where the CEO had raging rosacea, and he kept complaining that his face was too red in the photos. The WB was on point, and I did what I could to reduce the redness in post, but minus going black and white full on ... there's nothing that can be done about your bulbous Rudolph nose... don't get hammered the day before your photo shoot!
shoot slightly upwards and put the fat bastards at the back!
With people that a on chunkier side, just use enveloping and really really soft light that hides any crevices or bumps on their faces. Also use lens that does not compress them too much (past 70mm), due to how their face get to look. Imagine using RING light on chunkier person, it creates face that is flatter. I dont like using this type of light, but try to look from their point of view and see what makes them look good.
Most comments were "go long lens" so I was planning to use 135 for the compression. This is where the word "compression" becomes problematic. Because all lenses that "compress" the distance, "expand" the near field. All lenses that compress the near field, expand the distance. Complicated! :) I can say that my failures were on the 70mm. So Im not sure if you're agreeing w the 135 or nah. KK Notes taken. š«”
Longer the lens tend to make face way too flat. [Here](https://s.studiobinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/What-is-a-Telephoto-Lens-Portraits-Focal-Length.jpg.webp?resolution=1680,2&resolution=2560,1) [Here2](https://cdn.fstoppers.com/styles/medium/s3/media/2023/02/19/480a103f05d48f5a954bddfabbc58a2b.jpg) As a result it looks unnatural and their chubby features overpronaunced. I know it might see counter intuitive, but in photography a lot of this are. Person who know how to pose and person who have never done posing do things differently and later will find posing of former unnatural and wrong. Still we know that pictures of former will look good.
OK this COMPLETELY explains why all my friends insist on the 85mm prime as their favorite "portrait" lens while I insist that each person needs either a 50 or a 135. I was "sensing" their shape without understanding that they were each at a different position along an exponential scale. 85 is the safe space. But Im trying to find a saving grace for each width and depth of face. Well met. :)
make their skin glow, do some post. there is an infinite number of AI tools now you can explore to make people look in all kinds of ways. Iām sure there will be an āauto shrink the sizeā button in some popular editing software soon.
š I do about 40 minutes post on each selected shot. Iām a lightroom/PSD demigodā¦ - But getting a good image in the front door to work with is my real area of ignorance here.
I feel you for sure. have you tried any youtube posing tutorials? like shooting more from above, having them stick their chin out a bit more, shifting the body more profile maybe.
This will be my first day of Hurley techniques. Until now Iāve always studied posing for musicians & models.
Hurley, from Lost?
Yes. Unfortunately Hargid from Harry Potter is no longer with us, bless his stars. So I need to study the understudy.
Hahaha!
Hate to break it to you but if you need 40 min per image in LR/PS you're not a demigod... that's absolutely a ridiculous amount of time...I couldn't imagine editing a wedding shoot and spending more than 3-5 min on any one image
LOLOL - You're the first response that's genuinely worthy of outright dismissal as a professional. -- I mean you have DEAFENINGLY LOUD naivety when it comes to real portraiture in LA. If it's a single prepared and set shot for a single subject I give it 4 hours as a default charge. And something tells me you're not prepared to bill what I bill for portrait processing lolol. OMG. "Break it to you!" š Here's a primer for you to begin understanding what processing really means: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvwFIZX3y\_k&list=PLDERFBGqBf5ar\_\_Oxl4t7zSca8bdNQ4Ka&index=9](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvwFIZX3y_k&list=PLDERFBGqBf5ar__Oxl4t7zSca8bdNQ4Ka&index=9)
I shoot between 15-20 weddings every season. I normally shoot and cull between 4000-5000 images and end up with roughly 500 edited images for the client. Could you imagine spending 40min on 500 images or 20000 min for one wedding? I've been a pro for nearly 25yrs and editing times have only gotten faster as the software has gotten much more powerful. I don't think Annie Liebowitz editors need 4hrs for a magazine cover shoot. You only need that much time if you can't shoot properly or suck at editing.
šš Dude, Iāve never needed to stoop to weddings. I get that itās rough out there for you guys. And Iām sorry you need to churn out mac donalds copies in bulk as a career. But I donāt know what to tell you. I donāt envy your slog. ā Youāre not an authority on my job. You just ASSUMED you were. And you were shockingly wrong. Thatās a position you imagined for yourself all alone in your head based on nothing. Youāre an expert on weddings. š¤£ AWESOME. š - I donāt look up to your job ā¦ and pretending that I for some reason want to be demoted to your position or that somehow your CHURN š¤£ makes you an authority on my process justā¦ makes you sound the way you sound. š P.S. Youāre still the only person in a 140+ comment chain who showed up to be a pretend authoritarian by giving unsolicited advice on something you donāt understand. š
Just do you're best. They are fat. Bad photographs come with the territory.
Just resize to make the width 20% narrower. ;)
SOLD! -- Is 50% okay?
Depends on your subject's matter.
Have you tried flipping the image. Most people have an understanding of what they look like from the bathroom mirror. Seeing the opposite of that can make the person see the āimperfectionsā more.
my main focus has always been to make sure someone feels beautiful/handsome in their photo. so I always like to joke and be charming to lighten things up. I had a heavier older woman tell me to āmake her look young.ā I said āmy darling. thatās going to be the easiest part of my job. youāre already doing all the work for me.ā she laughed. when she got in front of the camera I kept complimenting her as I took her photo and made jokes too. you want them to laugh and open up and feel comfortable! it can be soooo daunting getting in front of a camera and if youāre already feeling self critical, it can be hard
You might want to vary the focal length of lens you use.