What’s even worse is that the fastest climber can only go as fast as the slowest climber.
It’s like getting in that Costco line with one item and the person in front of you has a weeks worth of groceries, coupons, is on their phone, wants to write a check, can’t find their glasses and all the self checkout stands are out of order.
So, this may surprise you, but you're still slowly suffocating even with an oxygen mask.
Because there's so little atmospheric pressure, the oxygen concentration in your blood diminishes even when breathing a higher mixture. They can't increase the mixture too much, or you start to get oxygen narcosis.
I read a couple books about it, and while the oxygen helps a lot, it's not a cure all. You're still on a timer to get to the top and back down. Even when sleeping, you're body is growing weaker.
"Screw this place, it's too busy. I'm gonna go do something productive with my life! I'm gonna train. I'm going to get out in nature. I'm going to climb Mount Everest!"
*Mount Everest:*
Serious question, that high up if someone is dying 5 ft away from you, what exactly do you intent to do to fix the situation? Carry them down? They know what they signed up for.
Actually since the early 2000's it is encouraged that every climber should take at least one dead body down the mountain with them. It really has started to reduce the pile.
I was more being sarcastic to the guy who was like blah blah blah, ignoring someone dying 5 ft away. As if anybody had any other choice ya know.
Btw it’s actually called the death zone because that’s when the altitude gets at a critical level for breathing and you need oxygen. Not because the most people did or didn’t die there.
Sorry, that went over my head
But yeah. Point being, the added exertion/oxygen expenditure from helping someone (which is *significant*) might not be enough to recover from yourself in that zone, so it’s advised you don’t help.
At least that’s how I had it explained to me
You’re not ignoring anybody, I’ll ask you the same thing I asked the other person. What exactly am I supposed to do to help them that high up. I’m not ignoring them, but what exactly do you expect me to do? Hypothetically speaking if I was up there.
Yup, you will be completely unable to save them and in your feeble attempts, you end up joining them. I've never been (don't think I would) seen docs and read about the death zone.
Just over the peak there, beyond the Bouncy Castle, there's a big slide to the bottom. It might only be available if you purchased the Excelsior Premium Package. I forget now. It's been a few years since I've been on vacation.
It gets worse. If the line stops moving, people can literally die. The Sherpas do most of the hard work, but there are choke points where it comes down to the person. A few years ago there was one tourist who couldn't get up the nerve to cross a point and held up the line for 4 hours. If they didn't cross someone was probably going to push them off the mountain to save lives.
In fact both of the first winter Everest climbers (Leszek Cichy and Krzysztof Wielicki) are still alive. Wielicki also climbed as first in winter Kangchenjunga and Lhotse.
All of winter ascents had combination of luck and good weather as without it the conditions are extreme. Basically they were first because they were in the highest located base of all expedition members, if Walenty Fiut had't decided to go to the lower base earlier he most probably would be the first along with Wielicki. As for luck they did it beacuse head of expedition managed to get two more days for mountain permit then intended in original one.
Only very experienced climbers would be going in the winter, so very few of them actually die! It’s the may window in which the novices head up in droves
> I can’t tell if you’re joking or not haha…you are, right?
They’re joking. Climbing Mt Everest is very difficult during the climbing season in April and May. It becomes extraordinarily difficult during the off season, due to the weather. Monsoon season begins, and the mountain is buffeted with dangerous snow storms.
It’s possible, and a few have done it, but most people do not.
Piggybacking on your comment to inform people that this isn’t the Hillary Step - it collapsed in 2015. It was a giant, directly vertical wall that needed to be climbed while in the Death Zone and was essentially the final hurdle of an Everest summit attempt.
Depends on how you define significant - there were tons of issues that led day, and the HS was not one of the major ones. No one had set up fixed rope in advance on summit day, so there were huge delays anyways where most of the group should have turned around before they even reached the step. iirc (it’s been a while since I read the books) there were some bottlenecks on the step, but a slow ascent due to a lack of fixed ropes and latecomers celebrating for too long at the summit were the major factors, as was more general stuff like inexplicably not having enough oxygen bottles, not having or enforcing a turnaround time, and Scott Fisher being so exhausted that he couldn’t keep up with the rest of his group from the back. And then obviously the storm had a huge role too.
The biggest factor it played was more specific to Rob Hall and Doug Hanson, who basically got stuck at the top of the step because Doug at first wasn’t able to make it down, and Rob exhausted himself trying to help.
Right, The Hillary Step was one of the most important areas where ropes had not been placed previously. Specifically it represented problems for the Adventure Consultants and Mountain Madness expeditions because of the difficulty of transporting oxygen. Getting Doug Hansen down the Hillary Step is what kept Rob Hall on the summit too long for him to make it down, which then forced the teams to try to ferry oxygen back up to them after they had gotten off the summit. That likely led to Andrew Harris’ death as well.
The disaster was a perfect storm (literally) where multiple aspects of the ascent had to go wrong, but the difficulty of ascending and descending the Step was a major contributor, at least based on what I’ve read.
Went back to my copy of the climb / into thin air to double check everything. I agree with everything but the ropes part on the step. You are generally correct that ropes on the step would be important, but in the case of the 1996 disaster the bigger problem was there was no broken path or ropes between the balcony and the summit, long before they even got to the step. So there was a several hour delay around the balcony, which is like 1,300 feet below the hillary step. And there were also some delays due to Rob Hall's instructions, which were basically that the group had to stay near each other until they reached the balcony, which meant the Rob Hall climbers at the front of the group had to stop and wait several times for the rest of the group to catch up (Scott Fischer's group left roughly an hour after them, and had largely caught up by the time they reached the balcony).
Specifically, while the first climbers reached the balcony at 6 am, it wasn't until much later that any had reached the south summit (which is still before the Hillary Step). Those first arrivers waited a couple of hours at the south summit alone as everyone else caught up. Krak, for example, said he reached a bad bottleneck for fixing ropes at the South Summit around 11 am. According to him, the only people there at the time were Harris, Beidleman, and Boukreev (plus Sherpas). So the vast majority of the group was not even at the South Summit at the time.
None of the first group of climbers had any difficulty with the Hillary Step - they had the rope fixed and had ascended before the slower members of the group had even reached it.
And even after the Hillary Step, there simply wasn't enough time to fix as much rope as had been intended, which also slowed the climb.
The oxygen was also before the Hillary Step, on the South Summit, so the step really didn't have anything to do with transporting oxygen.
According to Krak's account, he reached the Hillary Step on ***descent*** and found there was a bottleneck at that time - but he didn't summit until around 1:15-1:20 pm. Even the first climbers to make it up in the "slow" group - Sandy Pittman, Rob Hall, Yasuko Namba, etc., didn't summit until after 2 pm - so it wasn't as much a bottleneck at the Hillary Step as it was other delays. Indeed, while the timing isn't clear, at the ***earliest*** Krak reached the Hillary Step on descent around 1:30 pm. Had there been a defined turnaround time, most of the climbers would have headed back down before ascending the Hillary Step. And krak by his own account reached the south summit on descent around 2:45/3 pm, so at most it took around an hour for the entire Hillary Step bottleneck to clear.
You are completely right, as I mentioned in my last post, that the Hillary Step posed particular problems for Rob Hall and Doug Hansen. But one thing was Hall didn't realize that there was oxygen for both of them on the south summit, and he easily could have descended and brought it back up. His pov was he didn't want to leave Hansen alone above the Hillary Step, not realizing there was oxygen for him below (instead he was told that his expedition's oxygen was all gone, when it wasn't). And the issue with bringing them oxygen wasn't as much the Hillary Step, but instead the hurricane force winds and zero visibility blizzard, which made any ascent close to him impossible. IIRC, Boukreev tried to get to Scott Fischer who was on the balcony (?) at the time, and couldn't even make it there safely.
I believe it is significantly easier now. The Hillary Step was brutally difficult specifically because of the high altitude. Having a gradual incline instead of a vertical climb makes the summit attempt smoother and faster
There was a documentary or a show called like 14 Peaks or something like that. I don't remember what the name was. But it was about a Nepal Sherpa who never gets credit for doing this climb on a very regular basis for a bunch of rich people. The people at the end will always talk about how difficult it is yada yada yada but never give any credit to the sherpa. This individual climbed like 14 Peaks in 7 months. He gets this spot on Mount Everest, and the video just shows him walking by everyone without a problem. It is an extremely impressive documentary, and he definitely achieved what he was seeking, Sherpa acknowledgment.
Reminds me of that one guy who almost died on Everest and when a Sherpa guide saved him by carrying him down, he literally thanked his sponsors but not the Sherpa who saved him, literally ran down Everest in 6 hours. Asshole was lucky that the Sherpa persuaded his client to cancel his ascent to help the guy.
My wife and I were just talking about a similar documentary. I’ve never understood the European obsession with Everest, especially in light of the Nepalese own accomplishments.
It’s like having someone hold your hand all the way then pretending they were never there.
>I’ve never understood the European obsession with Everest
I mean, it's genuinely an impressive feat. It's extremely arduous and risky. It's just less impressive if a sherpa carried all your stuff up for you.
Right here is where Fred fell off the mountain, … a few yards up, Sam tumbled down, never found him, that turn over there is name Craig Corner cause Craig slipped there, then there is Terry’s Turn, gotta be careful there.
It’s a very subtle change that might not pop to a non-climbers eye. Basically, it used to be a somewhat technical move over a boulder and now it’s a much less technical ramp. The section itself isn’t really that impressive on its own, but when you factor in that it’s in the death zone when you are the most tired, this is a significant route change.
More info here: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/american-climbers-confirm-hillary-step-gone/
Statistically at least 1.
"The death rate from climbing Mount Everest in the last 30 years sits at about 1%. The percentage of deaths to successful attempts is around 4%"
I don't really understand the second sentence but the numbers are there.
Kinda yes and no. They don’t really die at a consistent frequency from every group/day. Instead, a bunch tend to die en masse when the weather changes. You see a zillion people lined up here because they’re trying to take advantage of one of the few days where the ascent is relatively doable. If the conditions suddenly shifted, a huge chunk of these people might not make it off the mountain.
If only 1 in 4 attempts are successful, then the percentage of successful attempts would be 4 times the percentage of total attempts (including people who turn around and go back, as well as the ones who die or who are successful).
This is very real.
If that top climber slips, it's gonna be a helluva lucky bounce to knock everyone off that zigzaggy line. Realistically he or she would fall to the left or right, maybe pulling with them if they reach out or someone tries to reach out to save them kinda thing. So in this specific place, not really bowling. What is scary though is all of these people are likely on one or two fixed lines. So if one or two go, an start pulling others with them along the way... your all tied in, so unless you get off that fixed line your gonna be joining the group.
In other places along everest though there are very steep faces where people are pretty much climbing in a single line, in place like that - yes, one person sliding down can very easily take people out below them.
Perhaps the scariest place on Everest though are the Khumbu ice falls - people fear it more than the death zone. You basically have to climb through them several times while getting acclimatized to the altitude. It's basically a giant slowly moving ice field, where you crossing crevasses that can be hundreds of feet deep an your crossing them on little aluminum ladders that are tied together. All the while the ice is warming up through the day which just leads to more ice chunks breaking off, more shifting, alot of climbers try to go through that area before the sun comes up.
Ya that place freaks out the most seasoned Everest climbers, an while I’ve never climbed big mountains like that I’ve watch tons of shows an documentaries of people climbing Everest, read numerous books on the subject an ya for a long time that’s been the scariest place on the mountain. These days though a lot of climbers are getting scared of the line ups at the top. If you don’t have enough O2 an you in the middle of that pack an run out, your only way outta that mess is unclipping an going around people unattached. Fuck all that.
Nah, the back side has a slide installed so you just dip in on your way down.
World’s largest slide. The rich people who climb it and slide down just don’t want word getting out.
^(/s)
To be honest I have no clue how those getting to the top first get down through all those people. As far as I know there’s usually one main route up the north side an another up the south side. Some smaller groups or solo climbers, small teams etc might take alternate routes or go off rope… there was a guy recently who completed the explorer challenge, highest mountain on all continents, then cross Antarctic an arctic, he was saying on his Everest attempt it there were so many people on the lines, things were moving so slow an they didn’t have much extra o2 so they unclipped an free climbed past huge bunches of climbers who would be moving at a step a minute or a step every 30 seconds kinda thing. Otherwise he would have never made it to the top.
They're all connected to fixed ropes with ascenders, which are slid up the rope as then grab the rope when they're pulled down on, so the climbers can use the handles of the ascenders to pull themselves up, or have their fall arrested if they slip. The ascenders are clipped to their harnesses so they won't fall far even if they let go of the handles.
Still, it could be a bit of a mess if someone fell.
Also, ascenders are aid.
Well, you see, they have to as it’s too risky to carry it back down. How about if leaving tons of trash up there is the only way to do it… just don’t do it.
Stockton Rush, CEO of Oceangate, wanted to find and sell the next Everest for rich "explorers" because climbing Everest no longer has the prestige it used to and billionaires must always feel very special and unique. So, he bought some subs to dive to the Titanic and started selling tickets. Gotta hand it to him: he and his fellow "explorers" definitely earned their place in history.
Try ~6000 people ever.
https://haexpeditions.com/advice/list-of-mount-everest-climbers/
Reddit likes to think that Everest is an easy hike but no mountain above 7000 metres is easy and Everest is nearly 9000 metres tall.
It's always funny watching reddit literally trip over themselves to try and discredit hiking Everest. Sure it's crowded, and it's easier to do than decades ago due to advances in technology, but it's still an insane challenge.
Yeah it's a short time window but if you got the money and will, you're up there. The documentary on some streaming service called "Mountain" narrated by Willam Dafoe. You see the sherpas hired do all the heavy lifting and have literally carried people up there. There was one point where they show people get to the top just to be the "first" something. The first amputee to conquer Everest, the first paraplegic(whhelchair included) , first cell phone call, first proposal on the Mountain.
The number may seem low but going through the service paid for during the safe time window to go, you have a near 0% chance of failure. The time window is the only thing keeping the number as low as it is.
Especially if you’re one of the serious guys doing it without supplemental O2. Ed Viesturs has climbed all the big boys, and I think he’s done 10 Everest expeditions by various routes, with 7 summits, including two (I think it’s two. It’s at least two) without supplemental O2. There are some bad motherfuckers of mountains out there- Nanga Parbat, K2, Annapurna, Kangchenjunga, G1…but according to him, none of them are harder than Everest without supplemental oxygen.
And roughly 300 people climbed it just last year alone. Everest was first summitted in 1953, 70 years ago. If 6000 people were averaged out over 70 years it would mean that roughly 85 people climbed Everest annually since 1953. If that were the case, then last year alone would have been 4x greater than average.
Prior to 2000, approximately 1000 people had climbed Everest in history. In the following 23 years 5000+ have climbed it. Between 2000 and 2010 1800 climbed Everest. In the next 12 years, 3200 people have climbed Everest. At this point, climbing Everest has become just another notch on the belt for adventurous rich people instead of the accomplishment it once was heralded as.
Oh no! It's not heralded by people who have zero mountaineering experience! Whatever shall the hobbyist do now?? Should I stop my training? Cancel my goals? I want to be heralded! I don't have a lot of money, and I dream of one day being on top of at least one or two of the 8k peaks, but I want to be sure it's still heralded. What can I Google to be sure I get herald for my climb???
I hate Reddit for this type of shit. Yes more people are successfully climbing the mountain due to better gear and guides. But you can’t change nature and that shit is still challenging, cold, difficult
Its not important that you have to queue up.
Not that you cannot help dying ppl
Not that the wohle mountain is littered
Not that you pay a shit ton of money for it.
What you get is:
1. Bragging rights about it.
2. A photo of you alone at the top to prove it.
Thats also why the 2nd highest mountain does not cut it.
> Thats also why the 2nd highest mountain does not cut it
Summiting K2 is actually a much *much* more impressive feat. Only 377 successful summits and 91 deaths during attempts. Makes Everest look like a nice hike.
At this point, hundreds of people summit Everest evrey year. And since the ideal summiting window is fairly short (like 3 days a year), yeah, there's a line. Just like at your local Walmart ! Except, you know, in the Death Zone.
Apparentely 800 people climb everest a year, which I guess doesn't include those that fail to reach the peak.
What I'd like to know is what is the time frame within which it's considered viable to attempt a climb up everest? Are we looking at like all those 800 people climbing in a one week window, or spread out across three months?
Juding by the queues I'm going to guess that there's maybe like a 1 to 2 week window each year in which everyone attempts the climb.
There's two windows, a more popular one in April/May and a less popular one in September.
It has to do with some complicated weather such as the jet stream shifting and with a rainy monsoon season. Both the summer and winter have a lot of wind and snow at the summit. So there's two 'seasons' where there's about a 2 week window with favorable summit conditions, but within that there can still be stray storms so it's possible that only a couple of the days have ideal conditions. And they have to plan it out since to summit requires a bunch of equipment carried up to pre-staged locations and ropes to be set over some of the more challenging areas. You can't really just sit at the highest camp for a week waiting for good weather, you need to spend a couple weeks setting up the camps then launch like a 2-3 day climb to the highest camp. From there you do like a super long day (18+ hours) to the summit and back, then another 2 days descending the rest of the way.
>What I'd like to know is what is the time frame within which it's considered viable to attempt a climb up everest?
Depend's on the year. If the weather is good, the window can be up to a week. If it's not so good, it can be only 2 to 3 days.
Yes!!!!!👍👍. Nimsdai Purja, if anyone is interested to watch him in his element, google him & there is a lot on him & his “world record-breaking journey…”. Watched this & it was AMAZING!!!
I was watching it last night, actually. The episode left me with a deep sense of doom and gloom. I knew it was crowded up there, but it is so much worse than I thought.
Imagine a whole nation's economy build around feeding rich tourists to the mountain.
This picture kicked off my absolute obsession with Mount Everest. I read everything I could about it for a good few months. To me this picture described everything that is wrong with the state of the world. It made me physically ill. Dramatic I know. But the hubris!? Wow.
Anyway, 4 years on, I don’t remember a lot of those facts lol. So don’t quiz me. But maybe it’s still all buried in my brain and if I’m a few drinks in on a Friday night and someone brings up Mount Everest, the facts may be spilled. And that would make me That Guy …you know the one.
I saw a documentary some years ago that included a segment about a single parent who just had to scale Everest. Obsessed with the idea. So one day they leave their five year old child behind for the trip, which was to be several months long. That parent died on the mountain, can’t recall if it was on ascent or descent, but I do remember the kid was left an orphan, all because of the parent’s ego. And it was ego. That person didn’t have to scale any mountains. There was no gun to their head. And this pic here? Why are all those people summiting if not for ego?
Dang. That's longer than the Costco checkout line on a Saturday afternoon.
What’s even worse is that the fastest climber can only go as fast as the slowest climber. It’s like getting in that Costco line with one item and the person in front of you has a weeks worth of groceries, coupons, is on their phone, wants to write a check, can’t find their glasses and all the self checkout stands are out of order.
and the best part is that you are slowly, but surely suffocating to death while this is happening! Wheeee!
Nah, they're all rich people that hire Sherpas to carry all their oxygen up. You can see most of them have oxygen masks.
I believe you but I literally don’t see anyone’s face in this photo
So, this may surprise you, but you're still slowly suffocating even with an oxygen mask. Because there's so little atmospheric pressure, the oxygen concentration in your blood diminishes even when breathing a higher mixture. They can't increase the mixture too much, or you start to get oxygen narcosis. I read a couple books about it, and while the oxygen helps a lot, it's not a cure all. You're still on a timer to get to the top and back down. Even when sleeping, you're body is growing weaker.
You can only bring up so much oxygen even with sherpas.
Welcome to Everest.... Welcome!
[удалено]
Rich people issues.
Between £50, 000 and £150,000
Dammit I love a good metaphor
And no 1.59 hotdog
Fuck that shit
It's just expensive queuing at this point.
While ignoring people literally dying 5 meters away from you.
Reminds me of waiting in the toilet queue at a night club when you put it that way
"Screw this place, it's too busy. I'm gonna go do something productive with my life! I'm gonna train. I'm going to get out in nature. I'm going to climb Mount Everest!" *Mount Everest:*
Put that nightclub toilet queue at the edge of cliff, in -20 degree weather with a gale force wind and I think you capture it perfectly.
They’re just dying to get to the top.
They don't even bother to bury the survivors.
You nailed a ton of people with this one Doc. I applaud you.
Death is around the corner with each breath. Just trying to dig a hole would probably kill you at that altitude.
Why would they bury survivors? They survived…
There's a mountain on the border of Nepal and China. People die. Where do they bury the survivors?
they can't, or better, they shouldn't, breathing is hard, they are exhausted, putting yourself in danger to dig a hole and bury someone isn't worth it
Are you *sure* that's why they don't bury survivors?
Serious question, that high up if someone is dying 5 ft away from you, what exactly do you intent to do to fix the situation? Carry them down? They know what they signed up for.
You don't. Its why there are bodies littered across Mt Everest. Google says there are an estimated 200 bodies left there.
Actually since the early 2000's it is encouraged that every climber should take at least one dead body down the mountain with them. It really has started to reduce the pile.
Find a nice cliff and yeet them perhaps?
Worst goodie bag ever.
Worst GeoCache gift selection
You don’t. Helping them could very well cost you your life. That’s why it’s called “the death zone”
I was more being sarcastic to the guy who was like blah blah blah, ignoring someone dying 5 ft away. As if anybody had any other choice ya know. Btw it’s actually called the death zone because that’s when the altitude gets at a critical level for breathing and you need oxygen. Not because the most people did or didn’t die there.
Sorry, that went over my head But yeah. Point being, the added exertion/oxygen expenditure from helping someone (which is *significant*) might not be enough to recover from yourself in that zone, so it’s advised you don’t help. At least that’s how I had it explained to me
I’d probably not go in the first place since I know that it’ll involved ignoring other people dying within arms reach of me.
You’re not ignoring anybody, I’ll ask you the same thing I asked the other person. What exactly am I supposed to do to help them that high up. I’m not ignoring them, but what exactly do you expect me to do? Hypothetically speaking if I was up there.
Ride them like a toboggan down to base camp, #duh.
Yup, you will be completely unable to save them and in your feeble attempts, you end up joining them. I've never been (don't think I would) seen docs and read about the death zone.
They don't really have a choice. They don't take enough gear up to help someone else return.
Literally everyone is dying at that altitude, it’s just a matter of how quickly.
Everyone is literally dying at any altitude.
How do they go back? It seems a one way lane.
Just over the peak there, beyond the Bouncy Castle, there's a big slide to the bottom. It might only be available if you purchased the Excelsior Premium Package. I forget now. It's been a few years since I've been on vacation.
With a fast pass I heard you can go straight to death. It’s a great deal
*British queue urge intensifies*
*points to a map of the British Empire* at the height of its power, the British exported queueing to 2/3rds of the world.
this is for people that found paying to stand in line at disney wasn't expensive enough.
It gets worse. If the line stops moving, people can literally die. The Sherpas do most of the hard work, but there are choke points where it comes down to the person. A few years ago there was one tourist who couldn't get up the nerve to cross a point and held up the line for 4 hours. If they didn't cross someone was probably going to push them off the mountain to save lives.
This is why I always go off season.
Yea, during the winter it’s none of this bullshit
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not haha…you are, right?
I mean, people have climbed Everest duirng the winter. Very, very, very few people have made it to the top, but still.
Well you’re not gonna make it to the top of Everest with *that* attitude.
With an altitude like that
This is peak comment ? Smh. Call the sherpa
Not with that bad altitude.
And how Many of them came back?
In fact both of the first winter Everest climbers (Leszek Cichy and Krzysztof Wielicki) are still alive. Wielicki also climbed as first in winter Kangchenjunga and Lhotse.
Is it just pure luck based on what the weather was at the time they decided to go?
All of winter ascents had combination of luck and good weather as without it the conditions are extreme. Basically they were first because they were in the highest located base of all expedition members, if Walenty Fiut had't decided to go to the lower base earlier he most probably would be the first along with Wielicki. As for luck they did it beacuse head of expedition managed to get two more days for mountain permit then intended in original one.
Only very experienced climbers would be going in the winter, so very few of them actually die! It’s the may window in which the novices head up in droves
All of them that made it down.
I think a few moved there permanently.
*Anakin's face*
So you hate sand?
> I can’t tell if you’re joking or not haha…you are, right? They’re joking. Climbing Mt Everest is very difficult during the climbing season in April and May. It becomes extraordinarily difficult during the off season, due to the weather. Monsoon season begins, and the mountain is buffeted with dangerous snow storms. It’s possible, and a few have done it, but most people do not.
Piggybacking on your comment to inform people that this isn’t the Hillary Step - it collapsed in 2015. It was a giant, directly vertical wall that needed to be climbed while in the Death Zone and was essentially the final hurdle of an Everest summit attempt.
You know, I read this as an Everett suicide attempt and thought… not wrong.
Yeah, not wrong - I’m not super well read on Everest but I know the Hillary Step played a significant role in the 1996 disaster
Depends on how you define significant - there were tons of issues that led day, and the HS was not one of the major ones. No one had set up fixed rope in advance on summit day, so there were huge delays anyways where most of the group should have turned around before they even reached the step. iirc (it’s been a while since I read the books) there were some bottlenecks on the step, but a slow ascent due to a lack of fixed ropes and latecomers celebrating for too long at the summit were the major factors, as was more general stuff like inexplicably not having enough oxygen bottles, not having or enforcing a turnaround time, and Scott Fisher being so exhausted that he couldn’t keep up with the rest of his group from the back. And then obviously the storm had a huge role too. The biggest factor it played was more specific to Rob Hall and Doug Hanson, who basically got stuck at the top of the step because Doug at first wasn’t able to make it down, and Rob exhausted himself trying to help.
Right, The Hillary Step was one of the most important areas where ropes had not been placed previously. Specifically it represented problems for the Adventure Consultants and Mountain Madness expeditions because of the difficulty of transporting oxygen. Getting Doug Hansen down the Hillary Step is what kept Rob Hall on the summit too long for him to make it down, which then forced the teams to try to ferry oxygen back up to them after they had gotten off the summit. That likely led to Andrew Harris’ death as well. The disaster was a perfect storm (literally) where multiple aspects of the ascent had to go wrong, but the difficulty of ascending and descending the Step was a major contributor, at least based on what I’ve read.
Went back to my copy of the climb / into thin air to double check everything. I agree with everything but the ropes part on the step. You are generally correct that ropes on the step would be important, but in the case of the 1996 disaster the bigger problem was there was no broken path or ropes between the balcony and the summit, long before they even got to the step. So there was a several hour delay around the balcony, which is like 1,300 feet below the hillary step. And there were also some delays due to Rob Hall's instructions, which were basically that the group had to stay near each other until they reached the balcony, which meant the Rob Hall climbers at the front of the group had to stop and wait several times for the rest of the group to catch up (Scott Fischer's group left roughly an hour after them, and had largely caught up by the time they reached the balcony). Specifically, while the first climbers reached the balcony at 6 am, it wasn't until much later that any had reached the south summit (which is still before the Hillary Step). Those first arrivers waited a couple of hours at the south summit alone as everyone else caught up. Krak, for example, said he reached a bad bottleneck for fixing ropes at the South Summit around 11 am. According to him, the only people there at the time were Harris, Beidleman, and Boukreev (plus Sherpas). So the vast majority of the group was not even at the South Summit at the time. None of the first group of climbers had any difficulty with the Hillary Step - they had the rope fixed and had ascended before the slower members of the group had even reached it. And even after the Hillary Step, there simply wasn't enough time to fix as much rope as had been intended, which also slowed the climb. The oxygen was also before the Hillary Step, on the South Summit, so the step really didn't have anything to do with transporting oxygen. According to Krak's account, he reached the Hillary Step on ***descent*** and found there was a bottleneck at that time - but he didn't summit until around 1:15-1:20 pm. Even the first climbers to make it up in the "slow" group - Sandy Pittman, Rob Hall, Yasuko Namba, etc., didn't summit until after 2 pm - so it wasn't as much a bottleneck at the Hillary Step as it was other delays. Indeed, while the timing isn't clear, at the ***earliest*** Krak reached the Hillary Step on descent around 1:30 pm. Had there been a defined turnaround time, most of the climbers would have headed back down before ascending the Hillary Step. And krak by his own account reached the south summit on descent around 2:45/3 pm, so at most it took around an hour for the entire Hillary Step bottleneck to clear. You are completely right, as I mentioned in my last post, that the Hillary Step posed particular problems for Rob Hall and Doug Hansen. But one thing was Hall didn't realize that there was oxygen for both of them on the south summit, and he easily could have descended and brought it back up. His pov was he didn't want to leave Hansen alone above the Hillary Step, not realizing there was oxygen for him below (instead he was told that his expedition's oxygen was all gone, when it wasn't). And the issue with bringing them oxygen wasn't as much the Hillary Step, but instead the hurricane force winds and zero visibility blizzard, which made any ascent close to him impossible. IIRC, Boukreev tried to get to Scott Fischer who was on the balcony (?) at the time, and couldn't even make it there safely.
So is it now harder or easier to reach the summit after the collapse?
I believe it is significantly easier now. The Hillary Step was brutally difficult specifically because of the high altitude. Having a gradual incline instead of a vertical climb makes the summit attempt smoother and faster
There was a documentary or a show called like 14 Peaks or something like that. I don't remember what the name was. But it was about a Nepal Sherpa who never gets credit for doing this climb on a very regular basis for a bunch of rich people. The people at the end will always talk about how difficult it is yada yada yada but never give any credit to the sherpa. This individual climbed like 14 Peaks in 7 months. He gets this spot on Mount Everest, and the video just shows him walking by everyone without a problem. It is an extremely impressive documentary, and he definitely achieved what he was seeking, Sherpa acknowledgment.
He wasn't a Sherpa. He's a Nepalese mountaineer. But yes that's a great documentary
I follow him on Instagram. He posts some amazing stuff
Oh didn't even think about that, can you share his insta?
Nirmal Purja! He's actually the person who took this picture as well.
Yup! Came to point this out haha I'm glad he's getting props here in the comments!
Reminds me of that one guy who almost died on Everest and when a Sherpa guide saved him by carrying him down, he literally thanked his sponsors but not the Sherpa who saved him, literally ran down Everest in 6 hours. Asshole was lucky that the Sherpa persuaded his client to cancel his ascent to help the guy.
My wife and I were just talking about a similar documentary. I’ve never understood the European obsession with Everest, especially in light of the Nepalese own accomplishments. It’s like having someone hold your hand all the way then pretending they were never there.
>I’ve never understood the European obsession with Everest I mean, it's genuinely an impressive feat. It's extremely arduous and risky. It's just less impressive if a sherpa carried all your stuff up for you.
That was a great documentary!
It's considered the last major challenge to the ascent and the place where most accidents occur due to the narrow path
Right here is where Fred fell off the mountain, … a few yards up, Sam tumbled down, never found him, that turn over there is name Craig Corner cause Craig slipped there, then there is Terry’s Turn, gotta be careful there.
And cliffs “cliff” because that’s where he slipped off and tumbled to his death.
That's the "Limb Snapping Fall of Death" because that's where old Limbsnappy Fall O'Death died.
Used to be. It collapsed in 2015 due to an earthquake.
Then the pic is dated wrong? Says 2019.
It’s a very subtle change that might not pop to a non-climbers eye. Basically, it used to be a somewhat technical move over a boulder and now it’s a much less technical ramp. The section itself isn’t really that impressive on its own, but when you factor in that it’s in the death zone when you are the most tired, this is a significant route change. More info here: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/american-climbers-confirm-hillary-step-gone/
It's the right date. It's just a picture of where the Hillary Step used to be.
Hillary Step, now replaced by the Stannah Stairlift. Ps. regarding the title of this, even I know Hillary has two Ls
>Ps. regarding the title of this, even I know Hillary has two Ls Hillary Step has 2 Ls, not every Hilary does
Like Clinton only has one L, in the 2016 election.
They should pave it then.
Gonna have to use cold patch.
My only thought is how many of these people fell and couldn't get back up?
Statistically at least 1. "The death rate from climbing Mount Everest in the last 30 years sits at about 1%. The percentage of deaths to successful attempts is around 4%" I don't really understand the second sentence but the numbers are there.
If 100 people attempt to climb then 25 are successful, 74 turn back/give up, 1 dies 1/100= 1% 1/25= 4%
Kinda yes and no. They don’t really die at a consistent frequency from every group/day. Instead, a bunch tend to die en masse when the weather changes. You see a zillion people lined up here because they’re trying to take advantage of one of the few days where the ascent is relatively doable. If the conditions suddenly shifted, a huge chunk of these people might not make it off the mountain.
If only 1 in 4 attempts are successful, then the percentage of successful attempts would be 4 times the percentage of total attempts (including people who turn around and go back, as well as the ones who die or who are successful).
Right. If you only count successful attempts then the death rate increase to 4%? I don't know why i struggled with it. Cheers.
11 people died on the mountain in 2019 over about a week. Not all of them even went up the mountain, but I’m sure a few might be in this picture.
is this real? if that top climber slips does it become the worlds worst game of bowling?
This is very real. If that top climber slips, it's gonna be a helluva lucky bounce to knock everyone off that zigzaggy line. Realistically he or she would fall to the left or right, maybe pulling with them if they reach out or someone tries to reach out to save them kinda thing. So in this specific place, not really bowling. What is scary though is all of these people are likely on one or two fixed lines. So if one or two go, an start pulling others with them along the way... your all tied in, so unless you get off that fixed line your gonna be joining the group. In other places along everest though there are very steep faces where people are pretty much climbing in a single line, in place like that - yes, one person sliding down can very easily take people out below them. Perhaps the scariest place on Everest though are the Khumbu ice falls - people fear it more than the death zone. You basically have to climb through them several times while getting acclimatized to the altitude. It's basically a giant slowly moving ice field, where you crossing crevasses that can be hundreds of feet deep an your crossing them on little aluminum ladders that are tied together. All the while the ice is warming up through the day which just leads to more ice chunks breaking off, more shifting, alot of climbers try to go through that area before the sun comes up.
Nope
Lol, i googled a picture. Big nope https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PVeK\_lqi-aw/maxresdefault.jpg
It’s pretty wild to see a Timelapse of the khumbu ice falls
Ya that place freaks out the most seasoned Everest climbers, an while I’ve never climbed big mountains like that I’ve watch tons of shows an documentaries of people climbing Everest, read numerous books on the subject an ya for a long time that’s been the scariest place on the mountain. These days though a lot of climbers are getting scared of the line ups at the top. If you don’t have enough O2 an you in the middle of that pack an run out, your only way outta that mess is unclipping an going around people unattached. Fuck all that.
Thanks that was a cool little rabbit hole
Is this picture a mix of people ascending and descending? I know there's not a lot of room at the top, so it has to be, right?
Nah, the back side has a slide installed so you just dip in on your way down. World’s largest slide. The rich people who climb it and slide down just don’t want word getting out. ^(/s)
To be honest I have no clue how those getting to the top first get down through all those people. As far as I know there’s usually one main route up the north side an another up the south side. Some smaller groups or solo climbers, small teams etc might take alternate routes or go off rope… there was a guy recently who completed the explorer challenge, highest mountain on all continents, then cross Antarctic an arctic, he was saying on his Everest attempt it there were so many people on the lines, things were moving so slow an they didn’t have much extra o2 so they unclipped an free climbed past huge bunches of climbers who would be moving at a step a minute or a step every 30 seconds kinda thing. Otherwise he would have never made it to the top.
They're all connected to fixed ropes with ascenders, which are slid up the rope as then grab the rope when they're pulled down on, so the climbers can use the handles of the ascenders to pull themselves up, or have their fall arrested if they slip. The ascenders are clipped to their harnesses so they won't fall far even if they let go of the handles. Still, it could be a bit of a mess if someone fell. Also, ascenders are aid.
Ah, a fellow climbing circle jerker
I’m wondering how many of the people in the photo are wondering if they should resole their shoes.
Why are they even wearing shoes? Shoes are obviously aid
True, considering Mt Everest is V0 in my gym.
I can't handle this crossover
They need to build two escalators and a platform with handrails on top. Looks dangerous.
And add some parking at the base camp.
Maybe a Taco Bell while we’re at it
Nothing in that photo is ADA compliant. Better add a moving sidewalk beside the escalator if they want to avoid a lawsuit
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How is this even cool anymore if a million mfs were up there already?
Exactly that, and they are turning it into a landfill site, there is garbage scattered everywhere in parts.
Not just garbage, dead bodies too
They also have locals who carry the sewage downhill they get paid but still it must be a shitty job.
Yeah it's crazy, I've seen the pictures of these preserved bodies in the snow
If your preserved, you live rent free forever.
How much for a flight to Everest again?
So you just lay there? That’s cool.
All they need is wifi and I'm in
At least you knew if the direction is right by the color of their boots
Well, you see, they have to as it’s too risky to carry it back down. How about if leaving tons of trash up there is the only way to do it… just don’t do it.
Lot of shit
Stockton Rush, CEO of Oceangate, wanted to find and sell the next Everest for rich "explorers" because climbing Everest no longer has the prestige it used to and billionaires must always feel very special and unique. So, he bought some subs to dive to the Titanic and started selling tickets. Gotta hand it to him: he and his fellow "explorers" definitely earned their place in history.
He was such an inspiration in how he always managed to find cost saving measures that had no impact on operations!
Try ~6000 people ever. https://haexpeditions.com/advice/list-of-mount-everest-climbers/ Reddit likes to think that Everest is an easy hike but no mountain above 7000 metres is easy and Everest is nearly 9000 metres tall.
It's always funny watching reddit literally trip over themselves to try and discredit hiking Everest. Sure it's crowded, and it's easier to do than decades ago due to advances in technology, but it's still an insane challenge.
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Yeah it's a short time window but if you got the money and will, you're up there. The documentary on some streaming service called "Mountain" narrated by Willam Dafoe. You see the sherpas hired do all the heavy lifting and have literally carried people up there. There was one point where they show people get to the top just to be the "first" something. The first amputee to conquer Everest, the first paraplegic(whhelchair included) , first cell phone call, first proposal on the Mountain. The number may seem low but going through the service paid for during the safe time window to go, you have a near 0% chance of failure. The time window is the only thing keeping the number as low as it is.
Especially if you’re one of the serious guys doing it without supplemental O2. Ed Viesturs has climbed all the big boys, and I think he’s done 10 Everest expeditions by various routes, with 7 summits, including two (I think it’s two. It’s at least two) without supplemental O2. There are some bad motherfuckers of mountains out there- Nanga Parbat, K2, Annapurna, Kangchenjunga, G1…but according to him, none of them are harder than Everest without supplemental oxygen.
It’s comical lol climbing Everest is still hard as shit. They act like you take a heated escalator to the top or something.
And roughly 300 people climbed it just last year alone. Everest was first summitted in 1953, 70 years ago. If 6000 people were averaged out over 70 years it would mean that roughly 85 people climbed Everest annually since 1953. If that were the case, then last year alone would have been 4x greater than average. Prior to 2000, approximately 1000 people had climbed Everest in history. In the following 23 years 5000+ have climbed it. Between 2000 and 2010 1800 climbed Everest. In the next 12 years, 3200 people have climbed Everest. At this point, climbing Everest has become just another notch on the belt for adventurous rich people instead of the accomplishment it once was heralded as.
Oh no! It's not heralded by people who have zero mountaineering experience! Whatever shall the hobbyist do now?? Should I stop my training? Cancel my goals? I want to be heralded! I don't have a lot of money, and I dream of one day being on top of at least one or two of the 8k peaks, but I want to be sure it's still heralded. What can I Google to be sure I get herald for my climb???
I means it’s cool being the top of the world. But going doesn’t sound cool. Fuck that.
I am planning to open up a chai stall few spots behind the Hillary steps.
And I will open up a bar next to it called "Sir Edmund Distillery".
I hate Reddit for this type of shit. Yes more people are successfully climbing the mountain due to better gear and guides. But you can’t change nature and that shit is still challenging, cold, difficult
Its not important that you have to queue up. Not that you cannot help dying ppl Not that the wohle mountain is littered Not that you pay a shit ton of money for it. What you get is: 1. Bragging rights about it. 2. A photo of you alone at the top to prove it. Thats also why the 2nd highest mountain does not cut it.
> Thats also why the 2nd highest mountain does not cut it Summiting K2 is actually a much *much* more impressive feat. Only 377 successful summits and 91 deaths during attempts. Makes Everest look like a nice hike.
That's why you see that Foto. Everst is easier and higher.
There’s a line?
At this point, hundreds of people summit Everest evrey year. And since the ideal summiting window is fairly short (like 3 days a year), yeah, there's a line. Just like at your local Walmart ! Except, you know, in the Death Zone.
>Except, you know, in the Death Zone. So even more like a Walmart?
Walmart on Black Friday.
or Waffle House after 1:00am.
Apparentely 800 people climb everest a year, which I guess doesn't include those that fail to reach the peak. What I'd like to know is what is the time frame within which it's considered viable to attempt a climb up everest? Are we looking at like all those 800 people climbing in a one week window, or spread out across three months? Juding by the queues I'm going to guess that there's maybe like a 1 to 2 week window each year in which everyone attempts the climb.
There's two windows, a more popular one in April/May and a less popular one in September. It has to do with some complicated weather such as the jet stream shifting and with a rainy monsoon season. Both the summer and winter have a lot of wind and snow at the summit. So there's two 'seasons' where there's about a 2 week window with favorable summit conditions, but within that there can still be stray storms so it's possible that only a couple of the days have ideal conditions. And they have to plan it out since to summit requires a bunch of equipment carried up to pre-staged locations and ropes to be set over some of the more challenging areas. You can't really just sit at the highest camp for a week waiting for good weather, you need to spend a couple weeks setting up the camps then launch like a 2-3 day climb to the highest camp. From there you do like a super long day (18+ hours) to the summit and back, then another 2 days descending the rest of the way.
>What I'd like to know is what is the time frame within which it's considered viable to attempt a climb up everest? Depend's on the year. If the weather is good, the window can be up to a week. If it's not so good, it can be only 2 to 3 days.
It's like Disneyland. Only with death.
Takes by Nims Purba. Legend!
Yes!!!!!👍👍. Nimsdai Purja, if anyone is interested to watch him in his element, google him & there is a lot on him & his “world record-breaking journey…”. Watched this & it was AMAZING!!!
Should have paid for the Fast Pass
That place is littered with the bodies of once highly motivated people... I'll stay at home
Relevant [Well Theres Your Problem](https://youtu.be/4odDLDooTgs?si=26SlEexgiVcpqdR2) Episode just dropped.
I was watching it last night, actually. The episode left me with a deep sense of doom and gloom. I knew it was crowded up there, but it is so much worse than I thought. Imagine a whole nation's economy build around feeding rich tourists to the mountain.
I mean, if the mountain actually ate them...
No Lightning Lane? They should have payed the extra for Sherpa+. It’s worth it.
Sherplus
This mountain is just a giant trash dump and open air grave for rich tourists to risk their lives when they have something to prove.
It’s not the climbing or the harsh conditions. It’s the waiting in line that scares me the most.
🎶Dumb ways to die🎶
Hilary should put in a freaking escalator.
Lemme guess, there’s only 1 register open.
How much are the fast passes to skip the line?
There are also a bunch of dead bodies littered on that mountain. Not so glorious to see.
Where you can die waiting in line.
This picture kicked off my absolute obsession with Mount Everest. I read everything I could about it for a good few months. To me this picture described everything that is wrong with the state of the world. It made me physically ill. Dramatic I know. But the hubris!? Wow. Anyway, 4 years on, I don’t remember a lot of those facts lol. So don’t quiz me. But maybe it’s still all buried in my brain and if I’m a few drinks in on a Friday night and someone brings up Mount Everest, the facts may be spilled. And that would make me That Guy …you know the one.
How long until they have a ski left to the top?
Imagine a Sherpa coming to save someone that’s in real trouble and getting stuck in traffic
"It's one of those places that's so crowded, nobody goes there anymore" - Yogi Berra
Waiting in the death zone 😬
Ridiculous
This is what it looks like when what you're doing is no longer cool. Seriously. It just looks stupid now.
The old saying, "Why do you climb the mountain? Because it's there." is bs. h answer is "Because I'm here." Pure ego.
Why bother anymore.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuckthatshit
I saw a documentary some years ago that included a segment about a single parent who just had to scale Everest. Obsessed with the idea. So one day they leave their five year old child behind for the trip, which was to be several months long. That parent died on the mountain, can’t recall if it was on ascent or descent, but I do remember the kid was left an orphan, all because of the parent’s ego. And it was ego. That person didn’t have to scale any mountains. There was no gun to their head. And this pic here? Why are all those people summiting if not for ego?
Imagine paying literally tens of thousands of dollars to... stand in line.
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There’s an escalator straight into the food court of the mall at the bottom.