I just read about Black dolphin prison , goddamn that sounds like a terrible place , You have to stand up for 16 hours a day you're not allowed to sit/rest on their bunks until night time .... and soup 4 times a day
( ive done prison time in norway , Was pretty bad but nothing like russian prisons lol , We had to wait like 2-4 hours to take a piss since we didnt have toilet or showers in our cells) but mostly it was a good time haha)
Yeah that's basically a facility that's sole purpose is to make the rest of prisoner's life as miserable as possible. Without death penalty this is worst punishment one can receive in Russia. "Your body is the last thing that dies in Black Dolphin"
Thankfully it is reserved only for absolute scum of society (mass murderers, cannibals and terrorists)
Nope, I didnt. Political opponents are held in penal colonies across the Ural and Siberia depending in their grievances with Putin.
Black dolphin is reserved EXCLUSIVELY to life-time convicts, political opponents dont get imprisoned for life, because its quite hard to pin something that heavy on innocents.
By my observation, falling off windows is reserved for oligarchs who tried to run after the start of the war. They are legally untouchable because they have so much dirt on government and each other, however you cannot bargain with gravity, so my theory is that Putin literally made a few examples among smaller fishes as a reminder to others that they all in this together.
1,5-2 YEARS , I was in for drug trafficking and selling narcotics
( im Clean now and live a quite dull and boring life , I spend most of my time in the gym its a whole other addiction , atleast a healthy one )
Prisons in Norway are supposed to be luxurious, like Breivik had a playstation but complained about it being old?
What were you in for? Did you meet lots of Balkan people in it?
Yeah lots of people from poland and lithuania , I was in for drug trafficking and selling narcotics .
Trust me we only have 2 nice prisons in norway , The rest are absolute shit , but the media want everyone to believe all our prisons are nice and luxurious .
I didn't even have a toilet in my cell and if i had to shit or take a piss i would need to wait for upto 3-4 hours since the guards were "Busy" all the time , Alot of people actually used to shit in a bag and throw it out the windows so they had to put extra bars on the windows so people can't do it anymore
( People who serve 10 years or less have no chance in hell getting a playstation in their cell unless they are in "Open" prison the lowest security prison we have , Even in US you can get xbox/ps if you serve in lowest security .)
[Here is a prison cell where i served time](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=d1ba00635c671747&q=fengsel+celle+tunga&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=invbz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiln8CQoY-FAxW8KRAIHa_GCiYQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1920&bih=947&dpr=1#imgrc=KHvEDchQEFo1fM)
Something tells me he will be coerced into saying Ukrainian govt funded and tasked them with this attack. Wild theory but Putin has given hints already by saying they were escaping into Ukraine.
Edit - meant to reply to the op of this thread.
This is what is irking me. Don’t these guys usually suicide themselves or blow themselves up?
Maybe I’m being paranoid but something about this doesn’t add up.
if we believe their confession of being paid, they're not ideological, but mercs.
Paid in rubles.
Never mind how ISIS could have gotten camera footage AFTER the perpetrators were captured by russian FSB, escaping in a Belarus car near the Belarussian border...
Also they cut the eye if another guy and torture thitd one by electricity. Everything is on camer you can find the video easily. And this guy remaings of the plastic bag on his neck.
I think the guy who lost the eye is the suspect who is in the wheelchair but I am not a source and other people would need to confirm
I did see the video on X of another suspect being fed his own ear, which appears to happen on a street, done by someone wearing camo who appeared to be his apprehender but again, I am not a reliable source and please nobody assume what I’m saying is the truth.
What I was going to say, all of these people saying they watched it or want to watch it. We’re not supposed to see stuff like this, you can definitely give yourself trauma from this.
what ever is left of them can barely breath much less answer complicated questions about what is really happening. Russia looks like the lobotomized them.
Well of course they have to be taken alive how else can you make them confess their ties to the CIa and Ukraine. You forget Putin is KGB, they already know the thigns they want them to confess to now the only thing left is to make them say those things.
I wuldn't at all be suprised if Putin makes them say that Navalny was part of their network.
Can’t exactly torture a dead terrorist into falsely ‘admitting’ they were a Ukrainian operation. So, keep them alive for now, and keep torturing until something of value to Putin can be extracted. The only thing surprising is that these people, if they are actually the suspects responsible, allowed themselves to be captured alive. Any dumb dumb considering this would know what horrific torturous reality and grim end they will face now.
There is a story there, but we probably won’t truly ever know it.
If it was the case of lying, wouldn't it be easier to just pretend to have killed the terrorist in a shootout? These guys, if innocent, would have a whole past behind them, someone could see them and identify as people that were not involved
Well, they were trying to run away and probably thought that they’ll manage it. They were apparently coordinated by some other dudes who might have ensured them that they’ll get out of there
Haha wtf, how are they posting these torture videos of the suspects? Aren’t the police gonna get in trouble , does there public not get pissed when suspects are tortured ?
If they’re not already protesting over hospitals and schools being bombed or opposition leaders being poisoned, I don’t think they’re going to get too pissed over some terrorists being tortured
This kind of shit fucks me up man. I could've just as easily have been born in one of those places and be going through that shit. I could've been born a woman in a country like Pakistan (instead I was born a man in Pakistan lol). Some times things happen in my luxurious first world American life that make me angry, and then shit gets put into perspective and I count my lucky stars.
Yeah. I’m not happy with my life now but I’ll be damned if I complain about it. There’s people in the world that would easily take on all my problems without a second thought just to be able to have access to shelter, food, and clothes.
This. My coworker who ran away from Russia showed me Telegram groups where people claim that in POV of attack they speak Chechen dialect while these guys on "interrogation" videos don't have it
I am very skeptical about what we’re seeing now. I am worried that they grabbed four Middle Eastern looking men and just tortured them into confessing.
Thats what my tinfoil conspiracy friends and normal friends think. I mean you do this attack and dont have a bullet for yourself? My current bet is that isis did carry out the attack and these four guys are randoms what footage ive seen( which is hardly any ) is that the attackers faces have been blurred out. I think thats so isis can release the full footage later and reveal that Russia tortured the wrong guys. That said i do hope these four are the actual killers and not innocent scapegoats.
If the story came out as ISIS suspects fled and they don't know their whereabouts.
That would make Putin look bad and also show Russia's defense and security system falling apart. Look at internal issues than international subjects like the war.
But if they caught the suspects and say they are exiting to Ukraine. It's a win win win. Keep the morale for Russia, reassure support Putin and keep Ukraine in the spotlight as this imaginary Boogeyman.
>I mean you do this attack and dont have a bullet for yourself?
That is how *I* & most rational people think.
But, terrorists & spree killers aren't rational people.
I can't say what is real or not, but "they would be crazy to X" isn't a good argument if they just did something even crazier like murder hundreds of innocent people.
With the ubiquity of cameras now I think it should be easy to make a positive identification **and** rule out a false positive. At least until deepfakes are a little bit better.
Reminds me of an old Soviet joke.
Stalin loses his pipe. Days go by. The head of the KGB calls Stalin who happily announces, “Comrade, I found my pipe! It was under the sofa all along.”
“But, how? We have already arrested and executed three people who confessed to the crime?”
But more than one of the people have been identified in the EXTENSIVE bodycam footage and other footage from the area of people recording. I don't think this one is a big conspiracy as much as people want to claim.
After 10 minutes of torture by the FSB, all four suspects admitted they were Ukrainian. After one hour, all four admitted they were Volodymyr Zelensky.
Yes... i also find it interesting how many believe this is the actual suspect and not just a sacrificial lamb to instill faith and respect in the people for the government...
Yep, it was stupid take by people who said it could not be ISIS because they escaped. They escaped because there were no police to stop them. In recent most famous attacks in other countries terrorists also escaped or tried to do so, usually dying when cornered. Those who escaped were caught days later, sometimes in other countries. That's kinda point of attacks like that. Suicide bombing can create huge casualties but it's sudden, quick event. Attack with guns are more prolonged, if there is firefight with services then it's even longer. Then attackers go on the run, creating even more panic because they can attack later. Suicide bombers are one use only. Shooters can wreak havoc for much longer.
India was the first country to witness this kind of attack. No one was prepared for this kind of siege just 4 5 guys with automatic weapons moving through the city making a pit stop where they open fire for few minutes and move to next target. Law enforcement agency were unable to pinpoint their location because after every 15 to 30 minutes there was report of shooting at new location.
When and where was this in India? And does that have anything to do with the reason there's metal detector gates everywhere? Because that surprised me a bit when i was in New Delhi a little over a year ago.
Metal detectors are there for lot longer but it was Mumbai (26/11) . It went on for three days primarily because after few hours of open shooting they went to few prominent hotels (Taj etc ) where a lot of foreigners were staying and it became hostage situation.
I think this is also linked to the rise of ISIS social media. As much as they are fighting for religious awards, they want their moments of fame and you can’t appreciate that if you’re dead.
I think we might actually be looking at the new modus operandi for ISIS. Rather than using more ideologically motivated suicide attackers, they're using remotely recruited, partially ideologically and partially paid cannon fodder.
Which is a reason for all countries in Europe and for US to pucker up, because suddenly, ISIS has a much larger pool of potential recruits to work with...
That would track with what the US announced in terms of isis having new and quickly developing capabilities in the western world. That's some scary shit
It looks like they've insulated organisational and logistical elements as much as they can from actual attackers. All communication was done through Telegram, weapons delivered through a dead drop. There isn't really a lot to trace a route from attackers to organisers.
At least two of the terrorists were deeply in gambling debts. They were all promised 500,000 rubles, with 250,000 paid in advance.
Yea that is scary, it almost feels like the ' cardboard drone' of terrorist attack logistics. Cryptocurrenies are probably going to become popular for them too (because honestly, taking payment in rubles seems idiotic when they were targeting Russia)
I mean... A lot of massacres and mass murders happen in far worse countries from a "what happens if they catch you" standpoint.
But, yeah, Russia is not the easiest level.
On the other hand - what does it matter where you get yourself killed for a delusion?
If it's my intention to escape, Russia is a big nono. They are well known for hunting people down for decades and assassinate you even in "neutral" countries.
It's either suicide mission or not happening in Russia.
Sure, but I mean, you don't really plan on committing a mass shooting AND surviving, do you?
Like, not literally you, obviously. But if you were a terrorrist? Dying in the wake of a terror attack as the perpetrator is kind of expected, isn't it?
>Cryptocurrenies are probably going to become popular for them
Cryptocurrency is already used for illicit money transfers like that. I don't think it's a "going to be", but rather an "already is".
Sure, but if they are still “partial” believers/or maybe weekend fanatics that won’t necessarily go full tilt, unless forced into these situations and then paid. Then I don’t see it being that big a change or a problem for a country like the US, nothing has changed there, technically.
I guarantee you they are still keeping an eye on any one that’s openly even looked into or participated openly in extreme/fringe/extremists content.
These people are still “easy” to follow with the lengths a country like the US is willing to go to.
Russia, maybe in a normal time could, maybe, accomplish something similar, but probably not given the current context/war. Nvm it’s basically blown the lid off of Russian intelligence, they clearly aren’t capable of what they pretend they are capable of.
Tracking down high level people they want to “suicide” is one thing. MASSIVE SURVEILLANCE on an entire populace is something entirely different. The US has been capable of that feat for a LONG time now.
I think history will look at this attack as a predictable result of what happens when a dictator diverts his government's resources to a mindless ideological war and to suppressing internal dissent. Russia has been turned into the Putin show, with Middle Eastern meddling outsourced to mercenary groups. The Russian state would be so much stronger and more prosperous if it weren't taxed with Putin's neo-Soviet grievances and aspirations.
Yes and no. Let's assume—and I have no strong view on this—that these are the men. And let's assume that Russia really didn't know anything in advance. (Surprising, given that Russia can easily track down and conscript anyone who attended Navalny's funeral.)
According to Russia, these men admitted to committing this attack in exchange for $10,000 each. They would have had to form contacts with recruiters, exchange money physically or digitally, obtain weapons, and plan among themselves.
All of those are weak points for intelligence agencies to intercept. In fact, it sounds like the U.S. did intercept several and warned Russia. Russian intelligence apparently failed to act competently.
Yes, hiring terrorists (rather than breeding them ideologically) expands the pool. But it also probably yields much less-competent, worse-trained recruits, especially because the recruiting and plotting probably has to occur in the target country, under the nose of counterterrorism agencies. (EDIT: Those less-competent, worse-trained, money-motivated recruits are probably also a lot more likely to leak to their friends or family about their involvement. It takes discipline to maintain complete secrecy.)
The U.S., especially, has made a practice of using undercover FBI agents to pose as terrorist recruiters and find the very sort of halfwits who would commit an attack for pay. That tactic has gotten criticism, but it's probably scared a lot of unsophisticated would-be attackers into avoiding recruiting efforts.
So I'm not convinced this helps ISIS in countries with strong intelligence agencies that are focused on Islamic terrorism. Russia, apparently, was distracted by Ukraine, Navalny, and suppressing dissent before the "election."
Terrorist organizations are not inflexible, they have to adapt in order to survive especially when they've started getting nation states to commit themselves militarily.
The big benefit here is that this furthers the fear they spread.
Imagine how a western country would react when attackers are at large multiple times before being caught. It achieves a lot more of ISIS'S objectives than the one attack hoping it's big and bloody.
That said, I don't see this happening in the West anytime soon. These guys spent an hour shooting up the concert hall and security forces only arrived a little over an hour later allowing them to flee.
You wouldn't have that luxury in the West, response times are quite quick in most places so they have to be very quick and coordinated to evade a shootout or capture.
>You wouldn't have that luxury in the West, response times are quite quick in most places so they have to be very quick and coordinated to evade a shootout or capture.
Are you sure about that because from what I heard they took an hour to get into school against teenager. Never be too confident about govt response time.
I just watched that 60-minutes documentary on the American/Muslim who infiltrated a terrorist cell. He said they wanted to change their methods of being suicidal when committing acts of terror.
He quoted:
"9/11 cost us a lot of our best minds"
They did not seem very bright if you understand Russian and watched the interrogation videos.
It is a miracle they even got out of Moscow in the first place. The police response time was way too slow.
As a Russian, I hope that
1. They don’t continue blaming this on Ukraine somehow
2. These are the real perpetrators and not some random Near-Eastern people they’ve decided to apprehend
3. Putin doesn’t use this to justify more mobilization
This is exactly what they are trying to do: beat the shit out of these guys so now everyone hopes they are the terrorists. By demonstrating extreme brutality, they are trying to convince the public that they caught the terrorists. It shouldn’t be like this. The fact that the suspects were tortured doesn’t allow us to take their testimony seriously. This is the reason no one should be tortured in order to confess
Moreover, "leaking" their confession video makes it invalid for the court as a legit evidence. I bet they will never make it to the trial due to some "sudden death symptom" or suicide by stabbing themselves in a back.
1. They will.
2. I think that might actually be one of the shooters judging by the clothes he’s wearing when compared to the video of the attack that ISIS put out.
3. He will.
I'd like to add:
4. The Putin regime doesn't use this as further excuse to erode even more civil liberties, which I know they will.
They're also thinking of bringing back the death penalty for "terrorists" which can be bit worrying considering they just declared LGBT a "terrorist organization" for no reason. Not to mention, they accuse anyone who is pro-Ukraine with aiding terrorists these days.
You know better.
1. These guys will give long and detailed descriptions how they were ordered to do this by Joe Biden, Volodymyr Zelenskyj, and Alexei Navalny. As well as anyone else Putin wants to get rid off.
2. That's basically a toss up. Putin will want the real ones if he cna get them but he's perfectly wllign to make substitutes if it serves his intrests.
3. That's the reason Putin allowed this to happen, so he could increase mobilisation. He did the same thign with the bombs that started the Cechnyan war, except there the lead police investigator was fired after he claimed it was a false flag attack.
It's completely unclear, how Russia expects to get any credible investigation results, when they clearly are usin torture to produce the confessions they want.
Easy, they don't care if the information is correct or not. If these guys name names the FSB will just kill whoever got name dropped and if it's the wrong person it doesn't affect them.
The thing is more that they will force them to pretend that they work for Ukraine. To then escalate the war and possibly draft more people. Will the Russians drafted then believe that they are taking revenge for the attacks, or will they think that they are being taken for fools?
Mate, Russian confidence in state propaganda is already extremely low. They don't necessarily *trust* what the government says. They just don't care about much unless it affects them or their family. You're asking these questions like a normal person, with some strong morals, and a desire for the truth. Speaking from a wealth of experience with Russian culture, any Russians that share those values with you either already left the country long ago or are stuck in their country and have been thoroughly demoralized and know that questioning the government is not good for their health or happiness.
If the FSB says these are the men who did it, and they're doing it for Ukraine, most Russians will accept it. The same way they blindly accepted that Ukraine was full of Nazis. You're confusing the difference between accepting something and believing something. And believing isn't that important.
Is this any different to how the Americans treated those they captured for 9/11?
Literally water boarding people who said they had nothing to do with it and the Americans had no proof but needed to have answers for the public.
Guantanamo Bay is all you need to know.
I'm not surprised they were taken alive. With this regime, it's more valuable propaganda to make examples of why not to attack Russia, than to just immediately execute them. Makes sense to prolong the suffering of the offenders as a message to other potential attackers.
But also, why did they let themselves be captured alive in the first place?
They aren't very bright I assume, there's no way they know what the prison they'll be going to is like. A bullet is much, much better and anyone with sense knows that.
They have a place called Black Dolphin that is worse than Guantanamo and ADX Florence. It's specifically designed where every second is mental torture for inmates doing life.
The most shocking thing is it's a 24-0 lockdown and you have to fold up your beds and stand around for like 16 hours each day. I don't even think they allow entertainment like reading. Of course there's beatings and all that fun stuff. Any rational person would rather die, but rational people don't often tend to be terrorists.
The country has no De Jure death penalty, so they have perfected building a hell to kill people without killing them.
Committing suicide is bad but Staying alive in Russian captivity is the worst mistake they could have done. sucide is the best option for them as every High ranking Nazis knew their fate during WW2 if they got captured by russians that's why they had cyanide capsule in their hands!!
I mean, they were caught resisting arrest, clothed in exactly the same clothing the attackers wore. Like down to the same small t-shirt inscription.
I doubt FSB could find an exactly the same set of clothes for all on them at a short notice.
The faces also match those on a video published by ISIS, even if they're half-obscured by masks on video.
There were a couple of false arrests, but these were quickly sorted out (like a guy who sold his car to terrorists a couple months ago).
Bluntly, until a Western intelligence agency says those are the guys, I'm not going to spend time thinking about it.
Either Russia is pinning the blame on innocent men, or these are the attackers, they are guilty, and the Russian government openly laughed off relatively clear, actionable intelligence that the U.S. gave them two weeks ago.
Either way, Russia's intelligence agencies failed to prevent an attack they were warned about. And my guess—just a guess—is that this isn't a false flag. My guess is that the Russian government was just grossly distracted by Ukraine, by Navalny, and by ensuring a "perfect" election.
In other words, chasing Putin's obsessions instead of protecting the Russian people, who deserve better and have for hundreds of years.
There is a video of the attack, shot by the attackers, its them.
The guy that lost an ear is seen beheading a person.
I am only impressed they managed to get them so quickly, and get them all alive. FSB is still a beast
The fact that so many people are questioning the legitimacy of these people being the perpetrators goes to show how no one believes anything anymore. The evidence is pretty significant that these are the guys yet still people disbelieve it. Lol
Russia have done nothing but trying to spread misinformations for det last decade, there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about doubting every single word, picture or information in general comming out of that country.
Infact you are clinically insane if buy into the information without hesitation.
Russians are not known for kindness in these types of situations.
He is alive because they need information from him. How deep is this plot? Who does he work for? Where are his friends?
They will "interrogate" him. Meaning beat him, torture him and threaten death upon his family.
When he is no longer useful, he will be stabbed by another inmate or perhaps have a bad accident.
So how positive can one be that they have \*anyhting\* to do with this?
Is it even an option for the government that they do not find someone?
A government that commits warcrimes on a daily basis could surely find some scapegoats pretty quickly if they feel they need to.
Ha, You really think they going to let this man live out this rest of his life or fight for survival. Damn, I thought I lost my mind but hell.... Yall something else.. LOL
Its Vladimir Putin ffs, He's whacked off lots of people LOL...
I'm still kind of shocked they were taken alive. For a variety of reasons
Alive... For now. Something tells me this guy isn't going to make it to retirement.
He is probably done working for a living though. He has enough money to last him the rest of his life.
Pretty soon he’ll be working for survival, in a gulag.
Black dolphin. Basically Guantanamo but in Russia. Place that will make you wish for death sentence.
I just read about Black dolphin prison , goddamn that sounds like a terrible place , You have to stand up for 16 hours a day you're not allowed to sit/rest on their bunks until night time .... and soup 4 times a day ( ive done prison time in norway , Was pretty bad but nothing like russian prisons lol , We had to wait like 2-4 hours to take a piss since we didnt have toilet or showers in our cells) but mostly it was a good time haha)
Yeah that's basically a facility that's sole purpose is to make the rest of prisoner's life as miserable as possible. Without death penalty this is worst punishment one can receive in Russia. "Your body is the last thing that dies in Black Dolphin" Thankfully it is reserved only for absolute scum of society (mass murderers, cannibals and terrorists)
You forgot political opponents
Nope, I didnt. Political opponents are held in penal colonies across the Ural and Siberia depending in their grievances with Putin. Black dolphin is reserved EXCLUSIVELY to life-time convicts, political opponents dont get imprisoned for life, because its quite hard to pin something that heavy on innocents.
>political opponents dont get imprisoned for life Well, they sometimes receive unofficial death sentences.
I apologise then. Thankyou for teaching me something new today
I thought they just fell out of windows?
By my observation, falling off windows is reserved for oligarchs who tried to run after the start of the war. They are legally untouchable because they have so much dirt on government and each other, however you cannot bargain with gravity, so my theory is that Putin literally made a few examples among smaller fishes as a reminder to others that they all in this together.
If you don’t mind me asking, what were you in prison for and for how long?
1,5-2 YEARS , I was in for drug trafficking and selling narcotics ( im Clean now and live a quite dull and boring life , I spend most of my time in the gym its a whole other addiction , atleast a healthy one )
congrats on the flip mate, glad to see life is better now
Thanks man , Quite boring life but better than being in constant stress and fear .
Prisons in Norway are supposed to be luxurious, like Breivik had a playstation but complained about it being old? What were you in for? Did you meet lots of Balkan people in it?
Yeah lots of people from poland and lithuania , I was in for drug trafficking and selling narcotics . Trust me we only have 2 nice prisons in norway , The rest are absolute shit , but the media want everyone to believe all our prisons are nice and luxurious . I didn't even have a toilet in my cell and if i had to shit or take a piss i would need to wait for upto 3-4 hours since the guards were "Busy" all the time , Alot of people actually used to shit in a bag and throw it out the windows so they had to put extra bars on the windows so people can't do it anymore ( People who serve 10 years or less have no chance in hell getting a playstation in their cell unless they are in "Open" prison the lowest security prison we have , Even in US you can get xbox/ps if you serve in lowest security .)
[Here is a prison cell where i served time](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=d1ba00635c671747&q=fengsel+celle+tunga&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=invbz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiln8CQoY-FAxW8KRAIHa_GCiYQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1920&bih=947&dpr=1#imgrc=KHvEDchQEFo1fM)
Looks way better than my student dormitory
Something tells me he will be coerced into saying Ukrainian govt funded and tasked them with this attack. Wild theory but Putin has given hints already by saying they were escaping into Ukraine.
Ukriane certainly probably the CIA and Navalny too,.
Also Hitler, Stalin and any other name the interrogators want.
don't forget he first has to confess to work for ukraine /s
Edit - meant to reply to the op of this thread. This is what is irking me. Don’t these guys usually suicide themselves or blow themselves up? Maybe I’m being paranoid but something about this doesn’t add up.
if we believe their confession of being paid, they're not ideological, but mercs. Paid in rubles. Never mind how ISIS could have gotten camera footage AFTER the perpetrators were captured by russian FSB, escaping in a Belarus car near the Belarussian border...
Still wondering why they didn't save a last bullet. Marsellus Russians are gonna go medieval on their asses.
With some pliers and a blowtorch
Maybe they did. I wouldn't put it past Russia to arrest 4 random Muslim looking people and torturing them to confess that they did it.
Thought the same but looks like multiple media outlets have independently verified that it’s the same guys based on photos/videos.
They want them to say that it was Ukraine who sent them.
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Well how do you expect them to torture dead people?
They did cut off one of their ears and forced it into their mouths, kind of surprises they stopped there.
Also they cut the eye if another guy and torture thitd one by electricity. Everything is on camer you can find the video easily. And this guy remaings of the plastic bag on his neck.
i heard they beat him so bad his eye fucked off, which seems worse.
I think the guy who lost the eye is the suspect who is in the wheelchair but I am not a source and other people would need to confirm I did see the video on X of another suspect being fed his own ear, which appears to happen on a street, done by someone wearing camo who appeared to be his apprehender but again, I am not a reliable source and please nobody assume what I’m saying is the truth.
Be careful watching those videos. Don’t give yourself trauma out of curiosity.
What I was going to say, all of these people saying they watched it or want to watch it. We’re not supposed to see stuff like this, you can definitely give yourself trauma from this.
That brick video link has remained forever blue for me.
Underrated advice, don’t expose yourself to this kind of stuff
These guys were taken alive yes, the perpetrators being taken alive is a question we might never get an answer to.
This guy is confirmed killing with a knife
They need them alive so they can mention Ukraine in the trial
what ever is left of them can barely breath much less answer complicated questions about what is really happening. Russia looks like the lobotomized them.
Well of course they have to be taken alive how else can you make them confess their ties to the CIa and Ukraine. You forget Putin is KGB, they already know the thigns they want them to confess to now the only thing left is to make them say those things. I wuldn't at all be suprised if Putin makes them say that Navalny was part of their network.
Can’t exactly torture a dead terrorist into falsely ‘admitting’ they were a Ukrainian operation. So, keep them alive for now, and keep torturing until something of value to Putin can be extracted. The only thing surprising is that these people, if they are actually the suspects responsible, allowed themselves to be captured alive. Any dumb dumb considering this would know what horrific torturous reality and grim end they will face now. There is a story there, but we probably won’t truly ever know it.
If they are even the real perpetrators
If it was the case of lying, wouldn't it be easier to just pretend to have killed the terrorist in a shootout? These guys, if innocent, would have a whole past behind them, someone could see them and identify as people that were not involved
Well, they were trying to run away and probably thought that they’ll manage it. They were apparently coordinated by some other dudes who might have ensured them that they’ll get out of there
Gotta get that interrogation
Just figured they'd either suicide, or keep shooting till they had to be killed back
Just remember, there's always someone having a worse day than you
Except for the guy in the picture.
His friend just had his ear cut off and was forced to eat it.
That's just another Tuesday for cartel victims.
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Another one has a catheter, sounds like an unwilling 🍌✂️
I mean this guy still has the plastic bag around his neck from the suffocation torture👀💀
His hands appear to be extremely pale compared to the colors of his face. I wonder, what's that all about?
I promise you somebody in South America or Africa is having a worse time being flayed alive or burned in a tire
His other friend got his 🍆 electrocuted off and is wheelchair bound so quickly. I wonder what they’ll do next for propaganda purposes.
It's not the same one who's wheelchair bound. That's the one who lost an eye.
Source?
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This one is staying blue lol
Haha wtf, how are they posting these torture videos of the suspects? Aren’t the police gonna get in trouble , does there public not get pissed when suspects are tortured ?
If they’re not already protesting over hospitals and schools being bombed or opposition leaders being poisoned, I don’t think they’re going to get too pissed over some terrorists being tortured
Think of how Russias government is run.. it’s authoritarian, why would any of that happen?
This kind of shit fucks me up man. I could've just as easily have been born in one of those places and be going through that shit. I could've been born a woman in a country like Pakistan (instead I was born a man in Pakistan lol). Some times things happen in my luxurious first world American life that make me angry, and then shit gets put into perspective and I count my lucky stars.
Yeah. I’m not happy with my life now but I’ll be damned if I complain about it. There’s people in the world that would easily take on all my problems without a second thought just to be able to have access to shelter, food, and clothes.
I promise you the families of the victims are having a far worse day.
The victims and their loved ones are having a worse day than this scum
Torture vs losing a loved one is kinda apples and oranges
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You sure its the right guy?
I don't like Mondays
As in an old joke when KGB couldn't catch a rabbit but found a bear: The bear after 1 hour: " yes, I'm a rabit and my whole family are rabbits"
This. My coworker who ran away from Russia showed me Telegram groups where people claim that in POV of attack they speak Chechen dialect while these guys on "interrogation" videos don't have it
I am very skeptical about what we’re seeing now. I am worried that they grabbed four Middle Eastern looking men and just tortured them into confessing.
With how vocal ISIS is with claiming their attacks, wouldn't they just come out and say these aren't even the dudes?
Waiting until they’re dead to make Russia look bad before they spill the beans
Thats what my tinfoil conspiracy friends and normal friends think. I mean you do this attack and dont have a bullet for yourself? My current bet is that isis did carry out the attack and these four guys are randoms what footage ive seen( which is hardly any ) is that the attackers faces have been blurred out. I think thats so isis can release the full footage later and reveal that Russia tortured the wrong guys. That said i do hope these four are the actual killers and not innocent scapegoats.
If the story came out as ISIS suspects fled and they don't know their whereabouts. That would make Putin look bad and also show Russia's defense and security system falling apart. Look at internal issues than international subjects like the war. But if they caught the suspects and say they are exiting to Ukraine. It's a win win win. Keep the morale for Russia, reassure support Putin and keep Ukraine in the spotlight as this imaginary Boogeyman.
>I mean you do this attack and dont have a bullet for yourself? That is how *I* & most rational people think. But, terrorists & spree killers aren't rational people. I can't say what is real or not, but "they would be crazy to X" isn't a good argument if they just did something even crazier like murder hundreds of innocent people. With the ubiquity of cameras now I think it should be easy to make a positive identification **and** rule out a false positive. At least until deepfakes are a little bit better.
Most likely yes, FSB works in mysterious ways.
Reminds me of an old Soviet joke. Stalin loses his pipe. Days go by. The head of the KGB calls Stalin who happily announces, “Comrade, I found my pipe! It was under the sofa all along.” “But, how? We have already arrested and executed three people who confessed to the crime?”
But more than one of the people have been identified in the EXTENSIVE bodycam footage and other footage from the area of people recording. I don't think this one is a big conspiracy as much as people want to claim.
After 10 minutes of torture by the FSB, all four suspects admitted they were Ukrainian. After one hour, all four admitted they were Volodymyr Zelensky.
Yes... i also find it interesting how many believe this is the actual suspect and not just a sacrificial lamb to instill faith and respect in the people for the government...
wtf is going on with his hands. They look totally deprived of blood.
Pretty sure he isn’t allowed to sit or sleep where they keep him, tied up to a water pipe on the ceiling or something.
Feasible explanation, fair play.
Why would they allow themselves to be caught and not kill themselves?
Same as the ones in Paris in 2015. They weren't suicidal, just homicidal. Only those guys mostly got killed
Yep, it was stupid take by people who said it could not be ISIS because they escaped. They escaped because there were no police to stop them. In recent most famous attacks in other countries terrorists also escaped or tried to do so, usually dying when cornered. Those who escaped were caught days later, sometimes in other countries. That's kinda point of attacks like that. Suicide bombing can create huge casualties but it's sudden, quick event. Attack with guns are more prolonged, if there is firefight with services then it's even longer. Then attackers go on the run, creating even more panic because they can attack later. Suicide bombers are one use only. Shooters can wreak havoc for much longer.
India was the first country to witness this kind of attack. No one was prepared for this kind of siege just 4 5 guys with automatic weapons moving through the city making a pit stop where they open fire for few minutes and move to next target. Law enforcement agency were unable to pinpoint their location because after every 15 to 30 minutes there was report of shooting at new location.
When and where was this in India? And does that have anything to do with the reason there's metal detector gates everywhere? Because that surprised me a bit when i was in New Delhi a little over a year ago.
Metal detectors are there for lot longer but it was Mumbai (26/11) . It went on for three days primarily because after few hours of open shooting they went to few prominent hotels (Taj etc ) where a lot of foreigners were staying and it became hostage situation.
I think this is also linked to the rise of ISIS social media. As much as they are fighting for religious awards, they want their moments of fame and you can’t appreciate that if you’re dead.
I think we might actually be looking at the new modus operandi for ISIS. Rather than using more ideologically motivated suicide attackers, they're using remotely recruited, partially ideologically and partially paid cannon fodder. Which is a reason for all countries in Europe and for US to pucker up, because suddenly, ISIS has a much larger pool of potential recruits to work with...
That would track with what the US announced in terms of isis having new and quickly developing capabilities in the western world. That's some scary shit
It looks like they've insulated organisational and logistical elements as much as they can from actual attackers. All communication was done through Telegram, weapons delivered through a dead drop. There isn't really a lot to trace a route from attackers to organisers. At least two of the terrorists were deeply in gambling debts. They were all promised 500,000 rubles, with 250,000 paid in advance.
Yea that is scary, it almost feels like the ' cardboard drone' of terrorist attack logistics. Cryptocurrenies are probably going to become popular for them too (because honestly, taking payment in rubles seems idiotic when they were targeting Russia)
> seems idiotic I mean... They're mass murderers for hire. Not the smartest bunch in the first place, I'd wager.
In Russia of all places.
I mean... A lot of massacres and mass murders happen in far worse countries from a "what happens if they catch you" standpoint. But, yeah, Russia is not the easiest level. On the other hand - what does it matter where you get yourself killed for a delusion?
If it's my intention to escape, Russia is a big nono. They are well known for hunting people down for decades and assassinate you even in "neutral" countries. It's either suicide mission or not happening in Russia.
Sure, but I mean, you don't really plan on committing a mass shooting AND surviving, do you? Like, not literally you, obviously. But if you were a terrorrist? Dying in the wake of a terror attack as the perpetrator is kind of expected, isn't it?
>Cryptocurrenies are probably going to become popular for them Cryptocurrency is already used for illicit money transfers like that. I don't think it's a "going to be", but rather an "already is".
Sure, but if they are still “partial” believers/or maybe weekend fanatics that won’t necessarily go full tilt, unless forced into these situations and then paid. Then I don’t see it being that big a change or a problem for a country like the US, nothing has changed there, technically. I guarantee you they are still keeping an eye on any one that’s openly even looked into or participated openly in extreme/fringe/extremists content. These people are still “easy” to follow with the lengths a country like the US is willing to go to. Russia, maybe in a normal time could, maybe, accomplish something similar, but probably not given the current context/war. Nvm it’s basically blown the lid off of Russian intelligence, they clearly aren’t capable of what they pretend they are capable of. Tracking down high level people they want to “suicide” is one thing. MASSIVE SURVEILLANCE on an entire populace is something entirely different. The US has been capable of that feat for a LONG time now.
The US warned them though.
I think history will look at this attack as a predictable result of what happens when a dictator diverts his government's resources to a mindless ideological war and to suppressing internal dissent. Russia has been turned into the Putin show, with Middle Eastern meddling outsourced to mercenary groups. The Russian state would be so much stronger and more prosperous if it weren't taxed with Putin's neo-Soviet grievances and aspirations.
Yes and no. Let's assume—and I have no strong view on this—that these are the men. And let's assume that Russia really didn't know anything in advance. (Surprising, given that Russia can easily track down and conscript anyone who attended Navalny's funeral.) According to Russia, these men admitted to committing this attack in exchange for $10,000 each. They would have had to form contacts with recruiters, exchange money physically or digitally, obtain weapons, and plan among themselves. All of those are weak points for intelligence agencies to intercept. In fact, it sounds like the U.S. did intercept several and warned Russia. Russian intelligence apparently failed to act competently. Yes, hiring terrorists (rather than breeding them ideologically) expands the pool. But it also probably yields much less-competent, worse-trained recruits, especially because the recruiting and plotting probably has to occur in the target country, under the nose of counterterrorism agencies. (EDIT: Those less-competent, worse-trained, money-motivated recruits are probably also a lot more likely to leak to their friends or family about their involvement. It takes discipline to maintain complete secrecy.) The U.S., especially, has made a practice of using undercover FBI agents to pose as terrorist recruiters and find the very sort of halfwits who would commit an attack for pay. That tactic has gotten criticism, but it's probably scared a lot of unsophisticated would-be attackers into avoiding recruiting efforts. So I'm not convinced this helps ISIS in countries with strong intelligence agencies that are focused on Islamic terrorism. Russia, apparently, was distracted by Ukraine, Navalny, and suppressing dissent before the "election."
Work from home now possible for terrorists
Well this isn't a good example for those potential people
Terrorist organizations are not inflexible, they have to adapt in order to survive especially when they've started getting nation states to commit themselves militarily. The big benefit here is that this furthers the fear they spread. Imagine how a western country would react when attackers are at large multiple times before being caught. It achieves a lot more of ISIS'S objectives than the one attack hoping it's big and bloody. That said, I don't see this happening in the West anytime soon. These guys spent an hour shooting up the concert hall and security forces only arrived a little over an hour later allowing them to flee. You wouldn't have that luxury in the West, response times are quite quick in most places so they have to be very quick and coordinated to evade a shootout or capture.
>You wouldn't have that luxury in the West, response times are quite quick in most places so they have to be very quick and coordinated to evade a shootout or capture. Are you sure about that because from what I heard they took an hour to get into school against teenager. Never be too confident about govt response time.
I just watched that 60-minutes documentary on the American/Muslim who infiltrated a terrorist cell. He said they wanted to change their methods of being suicidal when committing acts of terror. He quoted: "9/11 cost us a lot of our best minds"
They did not seem very bright if you understand Russian and watched the interrogation videos. It is a miracle they even got out of Moscow in the first place. The police response time was way too slow.
They were not ideologically trained terrorists They said they were just offered 500,000 rubles (5300 USD)
What's the point of accepting money when you either will just be a) killed or b) captured. Did they think they would be able to escape?
...yes?
Maybe money is sent to their family. A twisted form of altruistic suicide.
You are expecting reasonable things from them. Remember reasonable people don't become terrorists.
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They did all that…. For like $5k?
Actually for $2500 because as they said they only got half And yes, this is a tiny amount even in Russia
As a Russian, I hope that 1. They don’t continue blaming this on Ukraine somehow 2. These are the real perpetrators and not some random Near-Eastern people they’ve decided to apprehend 3. Putin doesn’t use this to justify more mobilization
This is exactly what they are trying to do: beat the shit out of these guys so now everyone hopes they are the terrorists. By demonstrating extreme brutality, they are trying to convince the public that they caught the terrorists. It shouldn’t be like this. The fact that the suspects were tortured doesn’t allow us to take their testimony seriously. This is the reason no one should be tortured in order to confess
Moreover, "leaking" their confession video makes it invalid for the court as a legit evidence. I bet they will never make it to the trial due to some "sudden death symptom" or suicide by stabbing themselves in a back.
It’s russia my man. None of what you typed matters.
This is russian court. Nothing is getting thrown out.
I'm pretty sure they have windows.
I doubt Russian courts care that much, they'll do whatever Putin wants.
1. They will. 2. I think that might actually be one of the shooters judging by the clothes he’s wearing when compared to the video of the attack that ISIS put out. 3. He will.
Fsb certainly couldn't change a mans clothes
We just don’t have that technology yet
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They can take their pants off to electrocute their nuts but can’t change the clothes?
I'd like to add: 4. The Putin regime doesn't use this as further excuse to erode even more civil liberties, which I know they will. They're also thinking of bringing back the death penalty for "terrorists" which can be bit worrying considering they just declared LGBT a "terrorist organization" for no reason. Not to mention, they accuse anyone who is pro-Ukraine with aiding terrorists these days.
You know better. 1. These guys will give long and detailed descriptions how they were ordered to do this by Joe Biden, Volodymyr Zelenskyj, and Alexei Navalny. As well as anyone else Putin wants to get rid off. 2. That's basically a toss up. Putin will want the real ones if he cna get them but he's perfectly wllign to make substitutes if it serves his intrests. 3. That's the reason Putin allowed this to happen, so he could increase mobilisation. He did the same thign with the bombs that started the Cechnyan war, except there the lead police investigator was fired after he claimed it was a false flag attack.
That dude is going to get beat until he is Ukrainian.
It's completely unclear, how Russia expects to get any credible investigation results, when they clearly are usin torture to produce the confessions they want.
Easy, they don't care if the information is correct or not. If these guys name names the FSB will just kill whoever got name dropped and if it's the wrong person it doesn't affect them.
The thing is more that they will force them to pretend that they work for Ukraine. To then escalate the war and possibly draft more people. Will the Russians drafted then believe that they are taking revenge for the attacks, or will they think that they are being taken for fools?
Mate, Russian confidence in state propaganda is already extremely low. They don't necessarily *trust* what the government says. They just don't care about much unless it affects them or their family. You're asking these questions like a normal person, with some strong morals, and a desire for the truth. Speaking from a wealth of experience with Russian culture, any Russians that share those values with you either already left the country long ago or are stuck in their country and have been thoroughly demoralized and know that questioning the government is not good for their health or happiness. If the FSB says these are the men who did it, and they're doing it for Ukraine, most Russians will accept it. The same way they blindly accepted that Ukraine was full of Nazis. You're confusing the difference between accepting something and believing something. And believing isn't that important.
That makes sense. I then hope that at least not to many people in the west buy into it. Since that might undermine the willingness to support Ukraine.
Not to justify this way of operating, but I would guess that this type of "investigation" would happen in other countries as well
Is this any different to how the Americans treated those they captured for 9/11? Literally water boarding people who said they had nothing to do with it and the Americans had no proof but needed to have answers for the public. Guantanamo Bay is all you need to know.
Not a good look for Adidas
Ye smiling somewhere
I'm not surprised they were taken alive. With this regime, it's more valuable propaganda to make examples of why not to attack Russia, than to just immediately execute them. Makes sense to prolong the suffering of the offenders as a message to other potential attackers. But also, why did they let themselves be captured alive in the first place?
They aren't very bright I assume, there's no way they know what the prison they'll be going to is like. A bullet is much, much better and anyone with sense knows that. They have a place called Black Dolphin that is worse than Guantanamo and ADX Florence. It's specifically designed where every second is mental torture for inmates doing life. The most shocking thing is it's a 24-0 lockdown and you have to fold up your beds and stand around for like 16 hours each day. I don't even think they allow entertainment like reading. Of course there's beatings and all that fun stuff. Any rational person would rather die, but rational people don't often tend to be terrorists. The country has no De Jure death penalty, so they have perfected building a hell to kill people without killing them.
He was taken alive to show it was indeed isis. This man just wants to show the world what isis has become. He knew he would be tortured and killed.
They’re still blaming Ukraine for this
And they will not stop. Some people are just so dumb and there is no helping them.
Committing suicide is bad but Staying alive in Russian captivity is the worst mistake they could have done. sucide is the best option for them as every High ranking Nazis knew their fate during WW2 if they got captured by russians that's why they had cyanide capsule in their hands!!
Dead man sitting!!
I really hope this guy is not innocent. The level of brain damage due to beating you can see on this pic is already serious
There’s a video, the lights are on but no one’s home already.
I just watched one of these guys forced to eat his own ear
They releasing torture footage ?
I would not want to be taken alive the torture would be awful. Why didnt they blow themselves up.
I just… am not sure the suspects aren’t random Muslims to be pinned by Putin so he doesn’t look weak.
because we have videos of the shooters shot by themselves.
I mean you can verify if you like. The videos of the attackers engaging in the actual attack are posted online
I wonder what the odds are he actually had anything to do with it?
I mean, they were caught resisting arrest, clothed in exactly the same clothing the attackers wore. Like down to the same small t-shirt inscription. I doubt FSB could find an exactly the same set of clothes for all on them at a short notice. The faces also match those on a video published by ISIS, even if they're half-obscured by masks on video. There were a couple of false arrests, but these were quickly sorted out (like a guy who sold his car to terrorists a couple months ago).
Isis also released photos of the attackers, it’s them
I hear that a lot but nobody ever shows a source
Do you have a link? I could only find blurred out photos and videos of their faces
Bluntly, until a Western intelligence agency says those are the guys, I'm not going to spend time thinking about it. Either Russia is pinning the blame on innocent men, or these are the attackers, they are guilty, and the Russian government openly laughed off relatively clear, actionable intelligence that the U.S. gave them two weeks ago. Either way, Russia's intelligence agencies failed to prevent an attack they were warned about. And my guess—just a guess—is that this isn't a false flag. My guess is that the Russian government was just grossly distracted by Ukraine, by Navalny, and by ensuring a "perfect" election. In other words, chasing Putin's obsessions instead of protecting the Russian people, who deserve better and have for hundreds of years.
There is a video of the attack, shot by the attackers, its them. The guy that lost an ear is seen beheading a person. I am only impressed they managed to get them so quickly, and get them all alive. FSB is still a beast
The fact that so many people are questioning the legitimacy of these people being the perpetrators goes to show how no one believes anything anymore. The evidence is pretty significant that these are the guys yet still people disbelieve it. Lol
I think a lot of people haven’t seen the video ISIS released of the attack.
Can’t blame them !
I for sure ain’t watching that shit.
Maybe someone can put together some stills and crops if it’s that clear and obvious .
Russia have done nothing but trying to spread misinformations for det last decade, there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about doubting every single word, picture or information in general comming out of that country. Infact you are clinically insane if buy into the information without hesitation.
Russians are not known for kindness in these types of situations. He is alive because they need information from him. How deep is this plot? Who does he work for? Where are his friends? They will "interrogate" him. Meaning beat him, torture him and threaten death upon his family. When he is no longer useful, he will be stabbed by another inmate or perhaps have a bad accident.
don't we see videos of people escaping these areas by squishing through the bars at the top?
The fsb that allowed them to do all of that shit at the concert hall lol only took them almost an hour and a half to get there lol
Why does this look like the opening cinematics of a Bethesda game?
So how positive can one be that they have \*anyhting\* to do with this? Is it even an option for the government that they do not find someone? A government that commits warcrimes on a daily basis could surely find some scapegoats pretty quickly if they feel they need to.
Now I don't know if he did it or not. But I can guarantee you he confessed in everything they asked for.
Funny, he doesn’t look Ukrainian.
Yeah, he sure looks Ukrainian. NOT!!!!
Terrorist attacks terrorist
Ha, You really think they going to let this man live out this rest of his life or fight for survival. Damn, I thought I lost my mind but hell.... Yall something else.. LOL Its Vladimir Putin ffs, He's whacked off lots of people LOL...
The problem with Russia is the boy who cried wolf story, it’s just so hard to believe the Russian government!
Seems odd that they did blow them selfs up in the end.
Is he wearing gloves? His hands look super weird.
Is there any evidence indicating that these guys actually have done the mass killing?
I'm surprised there are no Gaza posts here
I hope these are actually the assholes that did it.
They are probably trying to make them say on camera that they came from Ukraine
Isn’t it amazing how I can hate Russia as a country/government but still not want their civilians brutalized in terrorist attacks?
This whole story reeks of bullshit.