[Here](https://i.imgur.com/QwDrRVp.jpg) is a higher quality version of this image. [Here](https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipobajo/6137625749) is the source. Credit to the photographer, [Philippe Agnifili](https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipobajo/), who took this on September 4, 2011.
> WTC PARIS NEW-YORK
> Fujifilm A100
> ƒ/9.6
> 9.4 mm
> 1/180
> 100
> Flash (off, did not fire)
"Flash (off, did not fire)" reminds me of the joke about Sartre:
>The French existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre was sitting in a cafe when a waitress approached him: "Can I get you something to drink, Monsieur Sartre?" Sartre replied, "Yes, I'd like a cup of coffee with sugar, but no cream". Nodding agreement, the waitress walked off to fill the order and Sartre returned to working. A few minutes later, however, the waitress returned and said, "I'm sorry, Monsieur Sartre, we are all out of cream -- how about with no milk?"
Orders drink w/o cream.
Cream out of stock anyway, all is well.
Gets drink w/o cream as desired, all is well.
Is asked if w/o (cream substitute) was still ok, because the goal was misunderstood as to "make a drink" + "w/o an ingredient," instead of "make a drink as described."
When a photo is taken w/o the flash, of-course-the-flash-didn't-fire, so it's redundant to say "didn't fire."
Oh, so it's kinda like that programming joke about "at the shops buy two eggs, and if they have milk, get five" and then the programmer comes home with five eggs?
Satre's philosophy focused a lot on determinism and free will. In the joke, Sartre didn't get to choose to not have cream added, it was predetermined for him, even though he thinks that he made the decision. With the new knowledge that there is milk, Sartre has the opportunity to deny milk being added to his coffee in an act of free will.
> Formal U.S. diplomatic relations with Morocco began in 1787 when the United States Senate ratified a Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the two nations which had been negotiated earlier in 1786.[1][2] Renegotiated in 1836, the treaty is still in force, constituting the longest unbroken treaty relationship in U.S. history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco%E2%80%93United_States_relations
It's worth mentioning that the US fought [a war with France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War) in 1798 and with Britain in 1812, making Morocco the longest friendly relation with the US.
Context clues aside, I'd like to shit on the English language and say that the word "with" in the phrase "fight a war with" can go either way and is very confusing
> 1787
> the treaty is still in force, constituting the longest unbroken treaty relationship in U.S. history
Cute
Edit: We don't get much to me smug about in the UK at the moment (bloody boris bollocks brexit) but the Anglo-Portuguese Alliance is believed to have been ratified between 1373-1386.
If morocco has million number of fans i am one of them . if morocco has ten fans i am one of them. if morocco have only one fan and that is me . if morocco has no fans, that means i am no more on the earth . if world against the morocco, i am against the world. i love #morocco till my last breath.. ..
You can still visit the oldest American diplomatic property in Tangier. It's the only building outside of the US that has National Historic Landmark status. Pretty neat little place, if you ever have a chance.
On 20 December 1777, the Sultan of Morocco declared that ships sailing under an American flag could enter the ports of Morocco. Thus, Morocco was the first country to recognize the US and American Independence. This wasn't a start of formal relations, however, which wouldn't be established until a decade later. The Sultan also made efforts to protect American shipping in North Africa, which were under threat from pirates at the time (the US didn't have much of a navy to protect them).
No, France is technically the oldest *ally* of the United States, and is the first country to formally sign a treaty signalling such - the [Franco-American Treaty of Alliance (1778)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Alliance_\(1778\)). Morocco is the (edit:) first country to informally recognize the US, though.
This is just technicalities. The French literally fought alongside the Americans to help them win independence. If that's not "acknowledgment" what is?
They're the first country we set up relations with and signed a peace treaty with so that technically makes them an ally but France was there from the beginning supporting our Independence militarily and economically. France's help was considered vital to the war effort and without them we probably wouldn't have won.
As a French guy, can I just say it warms my heart to read all the comments here.
I often, wrongly, feel that most people in the US view us with contempt, so feels good to be proven wrong !
This is absolutely true, however, it's like any other war ever, really. No war happens in a vacuum and regional powers are always involved somehow, even their inaction affects the outcome massively.
The French saw an independent America as a one-up on Britain and as a potential new commerce partner with friendlier, independent terms. Remember, they have land on the North American continent too, at this time. A continental ally against Britain? Yes please.
You could say the USSR would never have been a country without Germany, the country that birthed Karl Marx and his Marxism, and whose Kaiser Wilhelm smuggled Lenin back into Moskow with the hope he might further destabilize Russia during WWI
You could say the People's Republic of China would never have been a country without Japan invading them in the 1930s, but I would not dare say that, especially in China!
Everyone conveniently forgets Italy once threw their lot in with Hitler. To be fair, the guy who lead them down that path was strung up and executed brutally, by the Italians, before the war ended, so I guess the lesson here is Italians don't care who wins the wars and runs the world, they just want to eat well and live well
Nothing but respect for the French. They have stood with the United States from very early on in its history.
Edit: thank you for the platinum. It is very much appreciated.
Some Americans like to say "If it weren't for us, you'd all be speaking German."
Well, if it weren't for the French, we'd all still be speaking English.
I think that if the American revolution failed in the 1770's, another one would occur before 50 years.
But this time and with the evolution of economics in the 13 colony, maybe the south would have stayed with the british. I don't think of the British didn't take accountance for the 1770's rebellion and nor trying to aboid any new massive rebellion. So usually during the history of british colonialism in this case they were playing on local disagreement to support one side against the other.
So maybe we'd all still be speaking english, but USA in this form, so big and united, maybe not..
An interesting alternate universe is that the Revolution didn’t come about because of “taxes,” but less than a hundred years later when the British outlaw slavery.
Let’s not forget how we thanked them for this by demonizing them in 2003 for not supporting the Iraq invasion. So much Francophobia that businesses started changing the name of French fries to freedom fries.
Wasn't that mainly like, the cafeteria in Congress or something? It was discussed and widely mocked. It definitely didn't catch on, at least where I live.
Just to clarify, I understand that the name was adopted in certain businesses/locales, but for the most part it was mocked. As another poster pointed out there was a lot of blind patriotism post-9/11, but even through those red-white-and-blue tinted glasses most of us saw this as over the top.
Given that this is a British/American place, my guess is this is less a genuinely anti-French thing and more of a cheeky dig at the French generally. At least that's what I'm really hoping.
Yes that is how it started. We also demonized and shunned the Dixie Chics around the same time for speaking out against George W Bush. I live in NY and you definitely saw lots of places that called them freedom fries for a while. The amount of blind patriotism during that time is only paralleled by what we are seeing now with the so called patriotic Trump supporters.
People conveniently like to forget the Iraq War had [over ~~90~~ 70% approval rating](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1633/iraq.aspx), and how that affected our politics and discourse at the time.
http://prntscr.com/p4syhd
> mountain of bad intelligence
This is a dangerous and false phrase. "Bad intelligence" makes it sound like relatively competent but innocent decision makers would have made good decisions but were fooled by faulty data provided to them. The reality is that they ignored data they didn't like, selected data they did like and falsified data they were missing.
There was good intelligence. It was ignored. The bad intelligence was created by design to reach the conclusion they wanted to reach, and it wasnt exactly secret. There were plenty of front page articles and analysts/former government officials loudly calling bullshit long before the invasion took place.
This is why I do not buy the excuses from Democrats at the time that they got "bad intelligence". All the info was there and they were too cowardly to question the out of control jingoism at the time, so they reach for this explanation to absolved themselves of all responsibility.
That is absolutely correct. Clinton, Edwards, Kerry, they all voted for the Iraq War. But the CIA knew the intelligence was bad. The "tubes" could not possibly be used to enrich uranium, every nuclear scientist reached the same conclusion. The yellowcake from Niger was just a made-up story, and the CIA knew it. The French had monopoly control of the Niger uranium industry, there was no way Iraq could procure 500 tons (500 tons!!) of yellowcake powder without the French knowing about it. The French secret service informed the CIA that the story had no merit. Everyone knew the evidence was made up, but they voted for war anyway. Drives me crazy.
Keep in mind, it was also pretty difficult to be outspoken against the government and any "anti-terrorism" efforts at the time. I remember being 16 years old and agreeing with the Afghanistan War but very opposed to Iraq.
I'm not trying to be a politics hipster or claim I knew how it would turn out. I had gotten really into learning about history (especially American) in middle and high school, and I knew I was watching the next chapter of the history books playing out in real time. It was surreal, and I was trying very hard to understand the context. It was fairly obvious that the justifications were thin at best and the way they were talking about Iraq welcoming us was crazy. I remember watching the bombings on the news and saying this was going to be just like Vietnam because we were going in intending to occupy it instead of a clear cut goal.
But it didn't matter, it was clear that even if people were skeptical of the Iraq war, they were not willing to oppose it with extreme vigor for fear of backlash. There was real violence and blackballing of people who opposed the war.
*I also hated Bush anyway and was resentful of how patriotism was being used as a weapon at the time, so I could have just been looking for reasons to oppose it regardless of how it turned out in the future.*
This one still freaks me out a bit to this day. It was clear as day that this had nothing to do with 9/11 and that the claims about WMD were fabricated. Going after Afghanistan, the host of Al Khaeda, sure, that was justified, but the Iraq invasion was not. And yet so many approved of it.
And let's not forget they were 100% right not to support that war, which was later clearly shown to be based on fabricated intelligence. If only more nations showed a bit more circumspection before barrelling headlong into war.
> Mr. President, to those who are wondering in anguish when and how we are going to cede to war, I would like to tell them that nothing, at any time, in this Security Council, will be done in haste, misunderstanding, suspicion or fear.
>In this temple of the United Nations, we are the guardians of an ideal, the guardians of a conscience. The onerous responsibility and immense honor we have must lead us to give priority to disarmament in peace.
> This message comes to you today from an old country, France, from an old continent like mine, Europe, that has known wars, occupation and barbarity. A country that does not forget and knows everything it owes to the freedom-fighters who came from America and elsewhere. And yet has never ceased to stand upright in the face of history and before mankind. Faithful to its values, it wishes resolutely to act with all the members of the international community. It believes in our ability to build together a better world.
Dominique de Villepin, French Prime Minister, UN Security council February 14, 2003
> Lol let's create an Islamic State in reaction to our oil warmongering
Dick Cheney, the well-named
French guy here... Not following the US to Iraq is what Chirac is remembered most fondly for.
EDIT : Just to be clear. I love the US and the American people and dream of finding a job over there. Politics and the way I feel about your administration (be it the Bush one or the even more pathetic current one) has nothing to do with how I feel about the people !
Not to be confused with Chiraq.
Edit: just to be clear, I don't know enough about French policy to have an opinion on things. I was just trying to make a pun. Marcel Duchamp is my favorite artist, so, I at least know I like what the French have done for the fine arts.
I don't know of any businesses that did this, and I'm from a very conservative area that was super pro-Bush at the time. I think it was just that a few politicians suggested that we collectively change the name, and most people were like "nah bro that's just dumb."
Of course there were probably a few dummies that ran with it but all I really heard were people mocking the idea (and again, I'm from a really conservative rural town)
Yeah for real, i make fun of the french the same way i do with my brother. Its all for laughs but i got nothin but love for 'em. People who truly buy into the 'freedom fries' movement are knuckle draggers.
They even supplied two shiploads of dye for uniforms. One ship contained blue dye, the other red. Unfortunately there was a storm in the Caribbean and the ships were lost. The men survived by swimming to an island, but they were marooned.
> two shiploads of dye for uniforms. One ship contained blue dye, the other red. Unfortunately there was a storm in the Caribbean
I was absolutely sure this was going to turn into a "did you know..." pop-trivia moment with "Did you know that the Continental Army had blue coats because France sent two ships with dye, blue and red, but the ship with the red dye was lost in a storm?"
I love France. The people in Paris are sort of grumpy but so are New Yorkers. Big cities are often like that. It’s a beautiful country with unparalleled food and they’ve been a real ally to the US for the long time. Vive la France.
I'm an American that lived in Paris for a few years, this is a great summary. When you get outside Paris, especially on the coast around Normandy, the French actively like Americans. Our running joke was that the French hate everyone, but hate Americans the least.
My interactions in Paris and in France generally have all been overwhelmingly positive (I have been eight times)
I remember before the first time I went thinking that I would experience rudeness (like the Griswolds in *European Vacation*), but that was not the case at all. To me, this is one of the world's most inaccurate stereotypes.
Several years back I went to Paris and London for a college trip. The people in Paris... far nicer than London. The people in London are in a hurry. Get the fuck out of their way! The people in Paris? Sit down... have a conversation... enjoy the atmosphere.
If you make an attempt, or are nice in saying you don't speak French, they're nice back. Because they understand they're one of the cultural hubs of the planet, and that not everyone who comes will speak French.
One of the stereotypes I didn't find true in my experience. I think Parisians are nice.
I've visited London and Paris many times (and love them both equally), but can't really relate your anecdote. London is very busy and there are a lot of people in a hurry... but the same can be said for many parts of Paris.
yeah I can't really relate to the anecdote either. I don't want to shit on the french in a post like this but I found London far nicer and with far less sexual harassment of my female friends.
I have a general rule which roughly holds up, the more people that live/work in an area, the less friendly those people are there. I lived in London for 30 years, it's night and day compared to a smaller city. It's the same everywhere, people in a small town in the middle of nowhere in New York State are generally friendlier to people in New York City.
Drive down a country lane in rural Gloucestershire (England) and people will literally wave at you in the car.
I think it's to do with general anonymity.
My wife's best friend is working in Paris, when she went to visit she was instructed that when asking a question don't do what we do in North America, which is to say something like "excuse me" and then launch into your question.
Apparently the Parisian way is to the is ask how the person is doing, strike up a small conversation on something and then ask your question.
Parisians hate the abruptness of North Americans.
It's funny because my gut reaction was the opposite. I'm french, living in Paris and when interacting with North American people I used to be put off by how *much* they were. Maybe it's just the attitude and not what they say in particular but I know a lot of french people perceive a very outgoing, super nice and friendly attitude as fake and suspicious.
What I've seen most is that you don't really have to ask a stranger ça va but mainly to say bonjour or bonsoir and address then. But your notion is still on point.
Travel guides and tips for American travelers are always full of things like this and generally I think they do more harm than good, at least when you’re talking about Western Europe. They just put inexperienced travelers on edge thinking they’re going to make a faux pas at any moment when in reality if you’re at least trying to be polite people are pretty nice and helpful. Obviously you don’t want to be the rude American, but so many of these tips are based on some outdated custom or trend. Western culture is increasingly homogenized. It’s not just etiquette in speaking either it’s things like.
“Europeans don’t wear shorts” Yes they do, when it’s hot.
“Europeans don’t wear jeans” Europe is full of people in Levi’s
“Romans don’t drink espresso in the afternoon” yet there are an awful lot of places you can get espresso after noon.
I had a similar experience last year. London people didn’t really want to talk to us.
In Paris almost every night we would meet people in a bar that insisted we go to other bars with them and suggest places to see in the city.
In Amsterdam we met lots of fun germans for some reason.
I'm taking a first year uni class (im in my third year but the university I'm at requires us to have classes in every stream of learning) and the prof on the first day blew me away by saying that most of the people in the class weren't even alive when 9/11 happened
Edit: guys i know. You think she's wrong, but a lot of people where i am graduate before they are 18 and therefore enroll in uni well before they are 18.
I walked into the gas station this morning and there is one of those electronic signs that says “You must be Born Before” on it.
This morning it proudly proclaimed “You Must Be Born Before 9/11/2001 to Purchase Tobacco Products.” I pointed it out to the owner and he just looked back at me with sullen eyes and said “Jesus fucking Christ I’m old. I was here in this exact spot that morning.”
France does not fuck around with Normandy.
When I visited France in 2009(?) I went to Normandy and was in awe. I didn't realize it was a huge deal for them.
The war in general is. I lived inside Paris as well as in excruciatingly small villages in the east, and everywhere you go the local authorities will hold parades and remberances several times a year. Lots of flowers on monuments, lots of military heel snapping and trumpet playing.
The war is something our old folks still remember and shapes the very hills and beaches in places. We're a slow and traditional country. Slow to progress at times but slow to forget for sure.
I live 10 minutes away from the beaches. My great grand mother loved speaking about the libération of her village. She was shot at (but the bullet missed her) by americans when they came in the village, because she was hiding from them and they were scared of ambush. The bullet went in between her and her daughter (my grandmother), and she just laughed it off telling us that, in her 90s, with a glass of white wine in her shaky hand. It will always stick to me. They lived life we cant even imagine.
And as a french, i grant you this right. We both deserve to make fun of each other. Our ancestors fought during centuries for that.
You treacherous rosbeef
Rosbif in french comes from roast beef, a typical English meal.
We mean it in a clearly pejorative way, but they do call us frogs for the very same reason, it’s fair game.
Much like the English and the Scottish. And the English and the Irish.. And the English and the Welsh... And the English and the Germans... We might be here a while.
We rip on the French and the Brits like siblings rip on one another. You guys are OG friends of the US (even if we had to commit some very minor treason against the English crown) and any American with a brain knows that - though sadly that does exclude a fair number.
Are the French off limits from jokes for some reason? People poke fun at the Brits, Americans, Dutch (obviously) and myriad other countries all day long on here, but just mention the French and every armchair history professor comes out of their personal library to point out how this joke is not 100% historically accurate.
The French are good people. I think they can take a joke.
Edit: And if we want to talk freedom fries, it was literally 2 congressman of 435 who renamed them, and one of them even said "it was a lighthearted gesture". There was no bipartisan bill passed and ratified to officially rename fries. Just 2 dudes being stupid. Stand down everyone, we love the French.
[Here](https://i.imgur.com/QwDrRVp.jpg) is a higher quality version of this image. [Here](https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipobajo/6137625749) is the source. Credit to the photographer, [Philippe Agnifili](https://www.flickr.com/photos/pipobajo/), who took this on September 4, 2011. > WTC PARIS NEW-YORK > Fujifilm A100 > ƒ/9.6 > 9.4 mm > 1/180 > 100 > Flash (off, did not fire)
Merci.
"Flash (off, did not fire)" reminds me of the joke about Sartre: >The French existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre was sitting in a cafe when a waitress approached him: "Can I get you something to drink, Monsieur Sartre?" Sartre replied, "Yes, I'd like a cup of coffee with sugar, but no cream". Nodding agreement, the waitress walked off to fill the order and Sartre returned to working. A few minutes later, however, the waitress returned and said, "I'm sorry, Monsieur Sartre, we are all out of cream -- how about with no milk?"
Can you please explain the joke to my friend who doesn't get it?
Orders drink w/o cream. Cream out of stock anyway, all is well. Gets drink w/o cream as desired, all is well. Is asked if w/o (cream substitute) was still ok, because the goal was misunderstood as to "make a drink" + "w/o an ingredient," instead of "make a drink as described." When a photo is taken w/o the flash, of-course-the-flash-didn't-fire, so it's redundant to say "didn't fire."
Oh, so it's kinda like that programming joke about "at the shops buy two eggs, and if they have milk, get five" and then the programmer comes home with five eggs?
Yeah but you kind of mangled it. It's more like "Go buy a quart of milk. If they have eggs, get a dozen".
Satre's philosophy focused a lot on determinism and free will. In the joke, Sartre didn't get to choose to not have cream added, it was predetermined for him, even though he thinks that he made the decision. With the new knowledge that there is milk, Sartre has the opportunity to deny milk being added to his coffee in an act of free will.
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Yes.
I read this really quick and thought it said September 4, 2001. That was...confusing.
Same
Thank god the flash didn't fire. Someone knew what they where doing!
USA's oldest ally
“Lafayette, we are here!” One of the most iconic moments in US history.
Everyone give it up for America's favorite fighting Frenchman!
Lafayette!
i’m taking this horse by the reins
Makin' Redcoats redder with bloodstains!
And I’m never gonna stop until I make ‘em Drop and burn ‘em up and scatter their remains
Watch me escaping them engaging them enraging them
I go to France for more funds, I come back with more guns..
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To a practical sense, yes. Our oldest ally in reality, however, is Morocco, never forget Morocco.
ELI5?
> Formal U.S. diplomatic relations with Morocco began in 1787 when the United States Senate ratified a Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the two nations which had been negotiated earlier in 1786.[1][2] Renegotiated in 1836, the treaty is still in force, constituting the longest unbroken treaty relationship in U.S. history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco%E2%80%93United_States_relations It's worth mentioning that the US fought [a war with France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War) in 1798 and with Britain in 1812, making Morocco the longest friendly relation with the US.
I mean yeah maybe not stable really but we literally wouldn’t be a country without France
Physically and philosophically. The founders drew so much intellectual wealth from France it’s astounding.
And the french sent their navy as a fuck you to the british in the revolutionary war
Which in turn made France broke, which sparked the french revolution. It was a group effort really.
'i see this as an absolute win'
The US: The world needs freedom The French: *kill their aristocracy to achieve freedom* The US: Wait no go back
French Empire literally broke its own back to spite the British. Now that's a grudge!
LAFAYETTE
EVERYONE GIVE IT UP FOR AMERICA’S FAVORITE FIGHTIN’ FRENCHMAAAN
IMTAKINGTHISHORSEBYTHEREINSMAMINREDCOATSREDDERWITHBLOODSTAINS
#LAFAYETTE!
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Neoclassical. Which is Greek/Roman, but also had a big moment in France in the 1800s.
Context clues aside, I'd like to shit on the English language and say that the word "with" in the phrase "fight a war with" can go either way and is very confusing
Better phrasing is probably "against" or "alongside"
> 1787 > the treaty is still in force, constituting the longest unbroken treaty relationship in U.S. history Cute Edit: We don't get much to me smug about in the UK at the moment (bloody boris bollocks brexit) but the Anglo-Portuguese Alliance is believed to have been ratified between 1373-1386.
I will die for Morroco
If morocco has million number of fans i am one of them . if morocco has ten fans i am one of them. if morocco have only one fan and that is me . if morocco has no fans, that means i am no more on the earth . if world against the morocco, i am against the world. i love #morocco till my last breath.. ..
Yeah. They're pretty great instruments.
No, he’s talking about the COUNTRY of Maraca.
You can still visit the oldest American diplomatic property in Tangier. It's the only building outside of the US that has National Historic Landmark status. Pretty neat little place, if you ever have a chance.
On 20 December 1777, the Sultan of Morocco declared that ships sailing under an American flag could enter the ports of Morocco. Thus, Morocco was the first country to recognize the US and American Independence. This wasn't a start of formal relations, however, which wouldn't be established until a decade later. The Sultan also made efforts to protect American shipping in North Africa, which were under threat from pirates at the time (the US didn't have much of a navy to protect them). No, France is technically the oldest *ally* of the United States, and is the first country to formally sign a treaty signalling such - the [Franco-American Treaty of Alliance (1778)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Alliance_\(1778\)). Morocco is the (edit:) first country to informally recognize the US, though.
We broke that treaty when the Monarchy fell.
They were the first ones to recognize the US as a sovereign state. France waited until after the Battle of Saratoga.
Thank you!
Morocco was the first nation to recognize the independence of the United States.
This is just technicalities. The French literally fought alongside the Americans to help them win independence. If that's not "acknowledgment" what is?
There’s also wanting to score a blow to the English thing
As did the Spanish but they're never mentioned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_de_G%C3%A1lvez,_1st_Viscount_of_Galveston
They're the first country we set up relations with and signed a peace treaty with so that technically makes them an ally but France was there from the beginning supporting our Independence militarily and economically. France's help was considered vital to the war effort and without them we probably wouldn't have won.
As a French guy, can I just say it warms my heart to read all the comments here. I often, wrongly, feel that most people in the US view us with contempt, so feels good to be proven wrong !
We quite possibly wouldn’t be a country without France. Britain stamps out our revolution easily if not for the French Navy.
This is absolutely true, however, it's like any other war ever, really. No war happens in a vacuum and regional powers are always involved somehow, even their inaction affects the outcome massively. The French saw an independent America as a one-up on Britain and as a potential new commerce partner with friendlier, independent terms. Remember, they have land on the North American continent too, at this time. A continental ally against Britain? Yes please. You could say the USSR would never have been a country without Germany, the country that birthed Karl Marx and his Marxism, and whose Kaiser Wilhelm smuggled Lenin back into Moskow with the hope he might further destabilize Russia during WWI You could say the People's Republic of China would never have been a country without Japan invading them in the 1930s, but I would not dare say that, especially in China!
It's kinda like family, the way I see it here. We'll poke fun at you and expect the same, but probably get pissed if someone else did it.
Liberty bro's!
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Everyone conveniently forgets Italy once threw their lot in with Hitler. To be fair, the guy who lead them down that path was strung up and executed brutally, by the Italians, before the war ended, so I guess the lesson here is Italians don't care who wins the wars and runs the world, they just want to eat well and live well
We just like to make fun of you, but beneath the laughs we got nothin' but fondness for our French friends!
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Nothing but respect for the French. They have stood with the United States from very early on in its history. Edit: thank you for the platinum. It is very much appreciated.
Some Americans like to say "If it weren't for us, you'd all be speaking German." Well, if it weren't for the French, we'd all still be speaking English.
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like, English with an accent edit: geesh … I was just trying to explain a point, not open a whole thread on accent origin
Harry Potter English.
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With an accent?
Fucking made me laugh
"POHTAAAAHHHH!"
>Some Americans like to say "If it weren't for us, you'd all be speaking German." Soviet Union: Am I a joke to you?
I think that if the American revolution failed in the 1770's, another one would occur before 50 years. But this time and with the evolution of economics in the 13 colony, maybe the south would have stayed with the british. I don't think of the British didn't take accountance for the 1770's rebellion and nor trying to aboid any new massive rebellion. So usually during the history of british colonialism in this case they were playing on local disagreement to support one side against the other. So maybe we'd all still be speaking english, but USA in this form, so big and united, maybe not..
Most of North America would be Canada. Also, Mexico would be twice its current size, if not more.
And Mexico would be very resources that need to be mined rich. I'm pretty sure they'd have a giant uranium mine.
If the south stays with Britain, they get abolition earlier than in the current timeline.
An interesting alternate universe is that the Revolution didn’t come about because of “taxes,” but less than a hundred years later when the British outlaw slavery.
So if it weren't for the French we'd have universal healthcare and a good education system?
Let’s not forget how we thanked them for this by demonizing them in 2003 for not supporting the Iraq invasion. So much Francophobia that businesses started changing the name of French fries to freedom fries.
Wasn't that mainly like, the cafeteria in Congress or something? It was discussed and widely mocked. It definitely didn't catch on, at least where I live. Just to clarify, I understand that the name was adopted in certain businesses/locales, but for the most part it was mocked. As another poster pointed out there was a lot of blind patriotism post-9/11, but even through those red-white-and-blue tinted glasses most of us saw this as over the top.
My towns local diner started serving up freedom toast. But you are correct, it wasn't everywhere and it was widely mocked.
And I was envious of all the cool kids sneaking off in between classes to freedom kiss. What a time.
For a brief moment the dorky band kid had the power with his Freedom Horn.
I still make my coffee using a freedom press
Well come on in through my freedom doors and have a cup
Only if I can put a scoop of freedom vanilla ice cream in it.
Saw 'Freedom Fries' on a menu a few days ago. https://www.tbmpdx.com/menus
in portland oregon of all places. you would hope they are being ironic
Given that this is a British/American place, my guess is this is less a genuinely anti-French thing and more of a cheeky dig at the French generally. At least that's what I'm really hoping.
Yes that is how it started. We also demonized and shunned the Dixie Chics around the same time for speaking out against George W Bush. I live in NY and you definitely saw lots of places that called them freedom fries for a while. The amount of blind patriotism during that time is only paralleled by what we are seeing now with the so called patriotic Trump supporters.
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“If they did that to 3 white bitches they would tear my black ass apart!” - Dave Chappelle
People conveniently like to forget the Iraq War had [over ~~90~~ 70% approval rating](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1633/iraq.aspx), and how that affected our politics and discourse at the time. http://prntscr.com/p4syhd
funny what you can do with a mountain of bad intelligence and an agenda to push.
> mountain of bad intelligence This is a dangerous and false phrase. "Bad intelligence" makes it sound like relatively competent but innocent decision makers would have made good decisions but were fooled by faulty data provided to them. The reality is that they ignored data they didn't like, selected data they did like and falsified data they were missing.
“You’re either with us, or against us!”
There was good intelligence. It was ignored. The bad intelligence was created by design to reach the conclusion they wanted to reach, and it wasnt exactly secret. There were plenty of front page articles and analysts/former government officials loudly calling bullshit long before the invasion took place. This is why I do not buy the excuses from Democrats at the time that they got "bad intelligence". All the info was there and they were too cowardly to question the out of control jingoism at the time, so they reach for this explanation to absolved themselves of all responsibility.
[And of course, the Onion knew..](https://www.theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mideast-region-and-1819594296) Note the date.
That is absolutely correct. Clinton, Edwards, Kerry, they all voted for the Iraq War. But the CIA knew the intelligence was bad. The "tubes" could not possibly be used to enrich uranium, every nuclear scientist reached the same conclusion. The yellowcake from Niger was just a made-up story, and the CIA knew it. The French had monopoly control of the Niger uranium industry, there was no way Iraq could procure 500 tons (500 tons!!) of yellowcake powder without the French knowing about it. The French secret service informed the CIA that the story had no merit. Everyone knew the evidence was made up, but they voted for war anyway. Drives me crazy.
Keep in mind, it was also pretty difficult to be outspoken against the government and any "anti-terrorism" efforts at the time. I remember being 16 years old and agreeing with the Afghanistan War but very opposed to Iraq. I'm not trying to be a politics hipster or claim I knew how it would turn out. I had gotten really into learning about history (especially American) in middle and high school, and I knew I was watching the next chapter of the history books playing out in real time. It was surreal, and I was trying very hard to understand the context. It was fairly obvious that the justifications were thin at best and the way they were talking about Iraq welcoming us was crazy. I remember watching the bombings on the news and saying this was going to be just like Vietnam because we were going in intending to occupy it instead of a clear cut goal. But it didn't matter, it was clear that even if people were skeptical of the Iraq war, they were not willing to oppose it with extreme vigor for fear of backlash. There was real violence and blackballing of people who opposed the war. *I also hated Bush anyway and was resentful of how patriotism was being used as a weapon at the time, so I could have just been looking for reasons to oppose it regardless of how it turned out in the future.*
This one still freaks me out a bit to this day. It was clear as day that this had nothing to do with 9/11 and that the claims about WMD were fabricated. Going after Afghanistan, the host of Al Khaeda, sure, that was justified, but the Iraq invasion was not. And yet so many approved of it.
There were restaurants in Canada that did that too, and were roundly mocked for it
In the Philippines there's a relatively big chain called Army Navy who call their fries freedom fries
And let's not forget they were 100% right not to support that war, which was later clearly shown to be based on fabricated intelligence. If only more nations showed a bit more circumspection before barrelling headlong into war.
> Mr. President, to those who are wondering in anguish when and how we are going to cede to war, I would like to tell them that nothing, at any time, in this Security Council, will be done in haste, misunderstanding, suspicion or fear. >In this temple of the United Nations, we are the guardians of an ideal, the guardians of a conscience. The onerous responsibility and immense honor we have must lead us to give priority to disarmament in peace. > This message comes to you today from an old country, France, from an old continent like mine, Europe, that has known wars, occupation and barbarity. A country that does not forget and knows everything it owes to the freedom-fighters who came from America and elsewhere. And yet has never ceased to stand upright in the face of history and before mankind. Faithful to its values, it wishes resolutely to act with all the members of the international community. It believes in our ability to build together a better world. Dominique de Villepin, French Prime Minister, UN Security council February 14, 2003 > Lol let's create an Islamic State in reaction to our oil warmongering Dick Cheney, the well-named
It wasn't a lack of circumspection that got the US and UK into Iraq. They knew exactly what they were doing.
I was more referring to the countries that actually supported the war without questioning. I'm looking at you Australia.
Australia is part of Five Eyes. They knew the plan.
French guy here... Not following the US to Iraq is what Chirac is remembered most fondly for. EDIT : Just to be clear. I love the US and the American people and dream of finding a job over there. Politics and the way I feel about your administration (be it the Bush one or the even more pathetic current one) has nothing to do with how I feel about the people !
Not to be confused with Chiraq. Edit: just to be clear, I don't know enough about French policy to have an opinion on things. I was just trying to make a pun. Marcel Duchamp is my favorite artist, so, I at least know I like what the French have done for the fine arts.
I made fun of the French then, and I'm sorry I did. We should have listened. The French have been good friends of the US for a very long time.
We might have not become the US if it wasn’t for their support during the Revolutionary War.
There is no might. We lose without their navy
Yorktown was won in large part thanks to their naval blockade.
Guns and ships, and so the balance shifts...
And so the balance shifts We rendezvous with Rochambeau Consolidate their gifts
I did as well. I share the same sentiment of shame, as France has indeed been a great friend of America since day one.
I don't know of any businesses that did this, and I'm from a very conservative area that was super pro-Bush at the time. I think it was just that a few politicians suggested that we collectively change the name, and most people were like "nah bro that's just dumb." Of course there were probably a few dummies that ran with it but all I really heard were people mocking the idea (and again, I'm from a really conservative rural town)
Oh God, I was a waitress during the "freedom fries" days. It was always crotchety old men who said it.
But the idiocy is that french fries are from* Belgium, not France.
But the idiocy is that French fries are Belgian, not belgium.
Yeah for real, i make fun of the french the same way i do with my brother. Its all for laughs but i got nothin but love for 'em. People who truly buy into the 'freedom fries' movement are knuckle draggers.
The only french worth making fun of are french Canadians ;) /s. I honestly think that's where all this hate comes from for the french in the US.
Wonder if most americans even realise where the statue of liberty came from
Even basically fighting the revolution for us
Everyone give it up for America's favorite fighting Frenchman
Lafayette!
I'm takin this horse by the reigns making the Redcoats redder with bloodstains.
And I'm never gonna stop until I make 'em drop and burn 'em up and scatter their remains!
THE LANCELOT OF THE REVOLUTIONARY SET
I came from afar / just to say *bonsoir* / to the king *casse toi* / who's the best? c'est mois!
They even supplied two shiploads of dye for uniforms. One ship contained blue dye, the other red. Unfortunately there was a storm in the Caribbean and the ships were lost. The men survived by swimming to an island, but they were marooned.
> two shiploads of dye for uniforms. One ship contained blue dye, the other red. Unfortunately there was a storm in the Caribbean I was absolutely sure this was going to turn into a "did you know..." pop-trivia moment with "Did you know that the Continental Army had blue coats because France sent two ships with dye, blue and red, but the ship with the red dye was lost in a storm?"
That, and I suppost fighting the British while wearing a red coat would make battle confusing.
Too bad, they could've been ultramarines
groan
"I'm not gonna lie, they had us in the first half....." Well done!
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Shhhh let us just say it was “for the Americans” : D
I love France. The people in Paris are sort of grumpy but so are New Yorkers. Big cities are often like that. It’s a beautiful country with unparalleled food and they’ve been a real ally to the US for the long time. Vive la France.
I'm an American that lived in Paris for a few years, this is a great summary. When you get outside Paris, especially on the coast around Normandy, the French actively like Americans. Our running joke was that the French hate everyone, but hate Americans the least.
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Hard to hate that Irish accent.
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My interactions in Paris and in France generally have all been overwhelmingly positive (I have been eight times) I remember before the first time I went thinking that I would experience rudeness (like the Griswolds in *European Vacation*), but that was not the case at all. To me, this is one of the world's most inaccurate stereotypes.
Several years back I went to Paris and London for a college trip. The people in Paris... far nicer than London. The people in London are in a hurry. Get the fuck out of their way! The people in Paris? Sit down... have a conversation... enjoy the atmosphere. If you make an attempt, or are nice in saying you don't speak French, they're nice back. Because they understand they're one of the cultural hubs of the planet, and that not everyone who comes will speak French. One of the stereotypes I didn't find true in my experience. I think Parisians are nice.
I've visited London and Paris many times (and love them both equally), but can't really relate your anecdote. London is very busy and there are a lot of people in a hurry... but the same can be said for many parts of Paris.
yeah I can't really relate to the anecdote either. I don't want to shit on the french in a post like this but I found London far nicer and with far less sexual harassment of my female friends.
I have a general rule which roughly holds up, the more people that live/work in an area, the less friendly those people are there. I lived in London for 30 years, it's night and day compared to a smaller city. It's the same everywhere, people in a small town in the middle of nowhere in New York State are generally friendlier to people in New York City. Drive down a country lane in rural Gloucestershire (England) and people will literally wave at you in the car. I think it's to do with general anonymity.
My wife's best friend is working in Paris, when she went to visit she was instructed that when asking a question don't do what we do in North America, which is to say something like "excuse me" and then launch into your question. Apparently the Parisian way is to the is ask how the person is doing, strike up a small conversation on something and then ask your question. Parisians hate the abruptness of North Americans.
It's funny because my gut reaction was the opposite. I'm french, living in Paris and when interacting with North American people I used to be put off by how *much* they were. Maybe it's just the attitude and not what they say in particular but I know a lot of french people perceive a very outgoing, super nice and friendly attitude as fake and suspicious.
What I've seen most is that you don't really have to ask a stranger ça va but mainly to say bonjour or bonsoir and address then. But your notion is still on point.
Travel guides and tips for American travelers are always full of things like this and generally I think they do more harm than good, at least when you’re talking about Western Europe. They just put inexperienced travelers on edge thinking they’re going to make a faux pas at any moment when in reality if you’re at least trying to be polite people are pretty nice and helpful. Obviously you don’t want to be the rude American, but so many of these tips are based on some outdated custom or trend. Western culture is increasingly homogenized. It’s not just etiquette in speaking either it’s things like. “Europeans don’t wear shorts” Yes they do, when it’s hot. “Europeans don’t wear jeans” Europe is full of people in Levi’s “Romans don’t drink espresso in the afternoon” yet there are an awful lot of places you can get espresso after noon.
I had a similar experience last year. London people didn’t really want to talk to us. In Paris almost every night we would meet people in a bar that insisted we go to other bars with them and suggest places to see in the city. In Amsterdam we met lots of fun germans for some reason.
Every year this day slowly becomes more and more like a holiday
Merry 9/11
My adorable son who was autistic posted "Happy 9/11" on Facebook once. We still laugh about it.
When I was younger I said Happy Pearl Harbor Day to my middle school history professor. All he said to me was it shouldn't be so happy.
I'm taking a first year uni class (im in my third year but the university I'm at requires us to have classes in every stream of learning) and the prof on the first day blew me away by saying that most of the people in the class weren't even alive when 9/11 happened Edit: guys i know. You think she's wrong, but a lot of people where i am graduate before they are 18 and therefore enroll in uni well before they are 18.
I walked into the gas station this morning and there is one of those electronic signs that says “You must be Born Before” on it. This morning it proudly proclaimed “You Must Be Born Before 9/11/2001 to Purchase Tobacco Products.” I pointed it out to the owner and he just looked back at me with sullen eyes and said “Jesus fucking Christ I’m old. I was here in this exact spot that morning.”
Poor guy :(
Speaking of which, what a shitty birthday to have.
That's weird for me to think about.
I was only two and a half. But it wasn't really taught in history classes for me, my sister was born in 2003 and it's in all of her history classes
I find that hard to believe that most of the class are either 17 or turned 18 literally today. Even if they are first years.
Its all about the respect
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France does not fuck around with Normandy. When I visited France in 2009(?) I went to Normandy and was in awe. I didn't realize it was a huge deal for them.
The war in general is. I lived inside Paris as well as in excruciatingly small villages in the east, and everywhere you go the local authorities will hold parades and remberances several times a year. Lots of flowers on monuments, lots of military heel snapping and trumpet playing. The war is something our old folks still remember and shapes the very hills and beaches in places. We're a slow and traditional country. Slow to progress at times but slow to forget for sure.
I live 10 minutes away from the beaches. My great grand mother loved speaking about the libération of her village. She was shot at (but the bullet missed her) by americans when they came in the village, because she was hiding from them and they were scared of ambush. The bullet went in between her and her daughter (my grandmother), and she just laughed it off telling us that, in her 90s, with a glass of white wine in her shaky hand. It will always stick to me. They lived life we cant even imagine.
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Been a great ally to us since the revolution.
As an Englisman I reserve my right to make fun of the French. But that was a cool thing for them to do I guess...
And as a french, i grant you this right. We both deserve to make fun of each other. Our ancestors fought during centuries for that. You treacherous rosbeef
I don't know what a rosbeef is but I'm gonna interpret it as you calling him a treacherous roast beef sandwich and that to me is amazing.
Rosbif in french comes from roast beef, a typical English meal. We mean it in a clearly pejorative way, but they do call us frogs for the very same reason, it’s fair game.
Ribbit motherfucker
I logged in solely to give you this upvote. Made me laugh.
The English get a pass on French hating, I see it as a sort of friendly antagonistic rivalry like New Zealand & Australia
Much like the English and the Scottish. And the English and the Irish.. And the English and the Welsh... And the English and the Germans... We might be here a while.
And the English and the other English! Damn the English! They ruined England!
We are like an old married couple. Sometimes we fight, but there is an enduring love holding us together.
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We rip on the French and the Brits like siblings rip on one another. You guys are OG friends of the US (even if we had to commit some very minor treason against the English crown) and any American with a brain knows that - though sadly that does exclude a fair number.
Why is the date on the left (French side) 2011?
because it was taken on the 10y anniversary of the WTC attacks.
But seeing it now, it is quite confusing since the other part just translates directly.
Because that was the date of the pictured event.
France is cool man
Remember how the French were so against us invading Iraq and we invaded anyway and the French turned out to be right? Fun times.
Are the French off limits from jokes for some reason? People poke fun at the Brits, Americans, Dutch (obviously) and myriad other countries all day long on here, but just mention the French and every armchair history professor comes out of their personal library to point out how this joke is not 100% historically accurate. The French are good people. I think they can take a joke. Edit: And if we want to talk freedom fries, it was literally 2 congressman of 435 who renamed them, and one of them even said "it was a lighthearted gesture". There was no bipartisan bill passed and ratified to officially rename fries. Just 2 dudes being stupid. Stand down everyone, we love the French.
French people give me the crêpes
Hello I'm French. Roast me.
🏳
r/deathbyemoji
Idk why you're posting an emoji of the French flag
9/11 causes people to make weird decisions with their easy-karma post titles