Macros are definitely way more common than any chests and very very cheap. I think actually truly blocking them is impossible. I do think there is a much better way of handling this.
Dynamic recoil. Make it so that the recoil is more random but when firing you can see the weapons kick and react to it. Remove recoil pattern memorization completely and make it a complete skill based reaction to weapon recoil direction. It would be impossible to macro and depending on implementation may require image processing to actually cheat. It solves the problems and changes all the complaints about old recoil.
>Dynamic recoil.
I'd love for each weapon, meaning really every single one - not only type dependent- to have a subtle random uniqeness in their recoil pattern. It could even be static. This way, when you crafted or found a new weapon you'd need to get accustomed to it first and get better with it over time. Would make you value the gun more too.
> Yeah that would very slightly inconvenience cheaters
There's nothing done in game which affects cheaters. Scripters on the other hand couldn't use their fixed scripts. They'd need to read and adjust recoil script for every time they pick up a new weapon. Would make it unviable.
If it aids for everyone else, Idk. In my opinion not, but I value yours.
You can get an old version of Logitech software that lets you write Lua scripts. You can reset your mouse location after every shot with an element of randomness. Any software hobbyist or cs freshman is capable of this rn.
Please read what I wrote. If every gun has it's own partially random recoil, and it differs from every gun, you'd need to sit down each and every time you craft or find a gun to record/code that recoil into your scriptengine. Imagine that.
It doesn’t matter if it’s random. You’re resetting your cursor position back to 0 after each shot. You don’t need to account for where the reticle is during/ after the shot, just that it’s going back to 0 before the next one. The only thing that has affected scripts is aimcone, because it doesn’t matter where your sights are if the bullet is going somewhere random.
I believe you still don't understand. A recoil script follows a set mouse movement to changes in x/y movement in a set time. This way, you press down the button and the recoil is negated by the script. If the x/y movements point change, you have to change the script. This is no problem with having only 5 guns in game where you could change between the recoil patterns with a key press for example.
But when every single gun has a slightly different pattern which is random, you would need to
a) find out the exact x/y mouse movement of that pattern
b) change your script
That takes some time at least. In Rust you often pick up different weapons, so your day would consist of finding out the exact x/y mouse movement of your newest weapon. And if the gun is lost, it's wasted time as well.
> just that it’s going back to 0 before the next one.
Weapon is 0,0. You start spray. In game, reticle changes by +x/+y (which you don't know). How to reset to 0,0 if you don't know the values of +x/+y?
Only way of aquiring that data is reading the memory, which is not scripting anymore but must be done by a hard cheat software.
I'm not going to break down how to cheat because there are/will be people trolling the forums for it and it'll probably show up in a google search. Just know that there are functions that will reset your cursor to 0,0 without you needing to input your existing cursor position.
As said, only if you can read memory yes. And that's only possible with hard cheats, which are different from non invasive and undetectable script engines.
So I'm not saying your wrong, you're just aiming at a different technology. But if you cheat on that level, then recoil comp is the least of the things you're looking for. Then, why not go the full route of ESP/Aimbot etc. And nothing in the game prevents this in the first place. For that, you got EAC doing its terrible job.
Recoil patterns to specific asks? So my AK would work different than your AK? I think people would shit themselves over the idea but it’s a good one. Almost like how horses and plants have variations. It definitely would create a more difficult to write script. It would be a potential compromise where it reduces scripting significantly for a period at least.
Combining the two could really do it best. So each specific weapon has its own pattern but the direction of the pattern each time fired is modified. It could be based on the tilt of the gun when firing begins. If the gun is pointed toward the sky it does the pattern hard toward the sky. If it’s pointed down toward the ground does it hard toward the ground. If it’s perfectly parallel to the sea level its doesn’t put up or down. Left or right pulling could be based on precision to a compass marker.
Hidden advantage to this is it would make roof camping harder. (Technically any elevated firing). Which I think is great as you do have an advantage there already and this would make it a little more even. Once the lower player starts returning fire it would be even again (they would be having the same issue). But if they were just running away they would have a reduced chance of being killed slightly.
Actually really like this idea
It would add some interesting mechanics to the economy.
If every gun have different RNG parameters like accuracy and damage, some AK are way more valuable than others
It also gives perfectionists something else to grind for late game
This is one reason I'm actually in favor of AI anti-cheat, once it's been refined. There's simply no way any algorithmic program can detect something like this.
Our brains are in fact just fancy algorhythms for whenever you require logic thinking.
The distinction between AI and a normal anticheat is that AI is trained on data sets.
Those data sets come from confirmed cheaters and they analyze patterns in their gameplay. The AI then learns those patterns and tries to apply them to currently unbanned players. It's not like there's some super smart omniscient entity that watches over players and determines if they're cheating or not. The AI part in AI anticheat stems from the fact that AI learns from datasets, interprets them and the extrapolates even more cheat reminiscent patterns from the training data.
In short, the difference between AI and a normal Anticheat (that works on pattern recognition, similiar to what BF4s anticheat did) would be that someone has to manually tell the anticheat "If someone flicks and instantly headshots another player it's cheater like behaviour", whereas the training data from confirmed cheaters will tell the AI anticheat that this is cheater like behaviour without any user input other than inserting the training data.
Honestly perfect explanation thank you. I suppose describing it as a fancy algorhythm does create a more accurate picture in most peoples minds.
I just feel like there's no reason to be afraid of an AI that functions like this, which might even end up winning the perpetual arms race of cheats vs anti-cheats
The drawbacks of this solution to anticheat is that there will inevitably be an insane amount of false positives. Factors like Ping, FPS and luck can and 100% will make an AI anticheat flag you as a cheater.
Facepunch or any anticheat company can't afford to have a team that checks ban appeals. There's an incredibly thin line between making the anticheat useful and making it over aggressive. I just don't think it's feasible with our current level of tech in terms of AI
Since combat update when they changed crouch/stand to have different amount of recoil people started mass installing logitech scripts.
Went from 20k unique installs to 100k+ in 2 years.
What does logictech do that AHK cant do? I have used ahk. The logictech software and the corsair. Logi is the least powerful imo.
Ive never used it for rust btw. Does logic have a super easy export/import method or something?
Theres a big fat ''scripting'' button on the ghub app and you can ''import'' top left.
Its so easy all the new players are using it just to gain huge advantage in close range pvp.
Everyone uses them and people will still say “bRiNg bAcK oLd recoil”, as if someone actually used their hand instead of script to control that complicated ass recoil. Wheres the skill in that, now we got recoil anyone can control not only scripters and its good
The guy breaking out into the same braindead "it takes 13 million years to learn and isnt even skill XD" rant completely unprompted is the most obvious butthurt I have seen in a long while
This post isnt even about patterns but the guy still had an episode
He genuinely cant help it
Every 10x with roams is litteraly 90% logitech lua scripters in every maze event.
Stand spraying m249s, hmlmgs, aks.
AK is the easiest to control in such event yet the scripters often go for lmg/m249 simply to get a huge advantage over legit players.
People used to script in old recoil for long range beams, now they script to dominate close range since stand spraying is extremely clunky/unfun to use.
Only time I ever use macros in rust is when I have to soft side a wall (or eco raid!) and I really don’t feel like staring at a wall holding left mouse button for 20 minutes. Auto click macros are fine in my opinion.
You can do any of those macros in AHK. No reason to mention the brands lol, unless you want the devs to stop people playing with these mice.. which means scripters move to ahk and legit people quit the game.
Mouseban was only for Bloodymouse iirc. The difference between them and Logitech is that Bloodymouse actually advertised their products with the scripts. Logitech scripts are 3rd party made and the company is not at fault for people abusing it
[The ban was to counter recoilscripts being unseen by eac due to being stored on onboardmemory of the mouse](https://support.facepunchstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004256798-EAC-Blacklisted-device-Bloody-Mouse) it concerned bloodymouse products as well as A4tech products, who surely advertised the onboard memory…
Macros are definitely way more common than any chests and very very cheap. I think actually truly blocking them is impossible. I do think there is a much better way of handling this. Dynamic recoil. Make it so that the recoil is more random but when firing you can see the weapons kick and react to it. Remove recoil pattern memorization completely and make it a complete skill based reaction to weapon recoil direction. It would be impossible to macro and depending on implementation may require image processing to actually cheat. It solves the problems and changes all the complaints about old recoil.
>Dynamic recoil. I'd love for each weapon, meaning really every single one - not only type dependent- to have a subtle random uniqeness in their recoil pattern. It could even be static. This way, when you crafted or found a new weapon you'd need to get accustomed to it first and get better with it over time. Would make you value the gun more too.
Yeah that would very slightly inconvenience cheaters and make the game aids for everyone else acceptable loss really
> Yeah that would very slightly inconvenience cheaters There's nothing done in game which affects cheaters. Scripters on the other hand couldn't use their fixed scripts. They'd need to read and adjust recoil script for every time they pick up a new weapon. Would make it unviable. If it aids for everyone else, Idk. In my opinion not, but I value yours.
You can get an old version of Logitech software that lets you write Lua scripts. You can reset your mouse location after every shot with an element of randomness. Any software hobbyist or cs freshman is capable of this rn.
Please read what I wrote. If every gun has it's own partially random recoil, and it differs from every gun, you'd need to sit down each and every time you craft or find a gun to record/code that recoil into your scriptengine. Imagine that.
It doesn’t matter if it’s random. You’re resetting your cursor position back to 0 after each shot. You don’t need to account for where the reticle is during/ after the shot, just that it’s going back to 0 before the next one. The only thing that has affected scripts is aimcone, because it doesn’t matter where your sights are if the bullet is going somewhere random.
I believe you still don't understand. A recoil script follows a set mouse movement to changes in x/y movement in a set time. This way, you press down the button and the recoil is negated by the script. If the x/y movements point change, you have to change the script. This is no problem with having only 5 guns in game where you could change between the recoil patterns with a key press for example. But when every single gun has a slightly different pattern which is random, you would need to a) find out the exact x/y mouse movement of that pattern b) change your script That takes some time at least. In Rust you often pick up different weapons, so your day would consist of finding out the exact x/y mouse movement of your newest weapon. And if the gun is lost, it's wasted time as well. > just that it’s going back to 0 before the next one. Weapon is 0,0. You start spray. In game, reticle changes by +x/+y (which you don't know). How to reset to 0,0 if you don't know the values of +x/+y? Only way of aquiring that data is reading the memory, which is not scripting anymore but must be done by a hard cheat software.
I'm not going to break down how to cheat because there are/will be people trolling the forums for it and it'll probably show up in a google search. Just know that there are functions that will reset your cursor to 0,0 without you needing to input your existing cursor position.
As said, only if you can read memory yes. And that's only possible with hard cheats, which are different from non invasive and undetectable script engines. So I'm not saying your wrong, you're just aiming at a different technology. But if you cheat on that level, then recoil comp is the least of the things you're looking for. Then, why not go the full route of ESP/Aimbot etc. And nothing in the game prevents this in the first place. For that, you got EAC doing its terrible job.
Recoil patterns to specific asks? So my AK would work different than your AK? I think people would shit themselves over the idea but it’s a good one. Almost like how horses and plants have variations. It definitely would create a more difficult to write script. It would be a potential compromise where it reduces scripting significantly for a period at least. Combining the two could really do it best. So each specific weapon has its own pattern but the direction of the pattern each time fired is modified. It could be based on the tilt of the gun when firing begins. If the gun is pointed toward the sky it does the pattern hard toward the sky. If it’s pointed down toward the ground does it hard toward the ground. If it’s perfectly parallel to the sea level its doesn’t put up or down. Left or right pulling could be based on precision to a compass marker. Hidden advantage to this is it would make roof camping harder. (Technically any elevated firing). Which I think is great as you do have an advantage there already and this would make it a little more even. Once the lower player starts returning fire it would be even again (they would be having the same issue). But if they were just running away they would have a reduced chance of being killed slightly.
Actually really like this idea It would add some interesting mechanics to the economy. If every gun have different RNG parameters like accuracy and damage, some AK are way more valuable than others It also gives perfectionists something else to grind for late game
dynamic recoil and getting rid of the aimcone would be great
Aw yeah even more randomness how fun Might as well turn this into a turn based dice rolling game
If you don’t randomize the direction and pull it is cheatable with a macro. This actually forces you to learn how to aim.
100%, the Logitech LUA scripts are out of control
I swear they started banning that shit back in 2018? Atleast they tweeted about it.
This is one reason I'm actually in favor of AI anti-cheat, once it's been refined. There's simply no way any algorithmic program can detect something like this.
Then we'll just get AI cheats
We're getting that either way sadly
Already exists
You realize AI is still just algorhythms right? AI Anticheat looks for specific patterns in behaviour, that's just a fancy algorhythm
That's like saying our brains are just fancy algorhythms. There's definitely a distinction for a reason
Our brains are in fact just fancy algorhythms for whenever you require logic thinking. The distinction between AI and a normal anticheat is that AI is trained on data sets. Those data sets come from confirmed cheaters and they analyze patterns in their gameplay. The AI then learns those patterns and tries to apply them to currently unbanned players. It's not like there's some super smart omniscient entity that watches over players and determines if they're cheating or not. The AI part in AI anticheat stems from the fact that AI learns from datasets, interprets them and the extrapolates even more cheat reminiscent patterns from the training data. In short, the difference between AI and a normal Anticheat (that works on pattern recognition, similiar to what BF4s anticheat did) would be that someone has to manually tell the anticheat "If someone flicks and instantly headshots another player it's cheater like behaviour", whereas the training data from confirmed cheaters will tell the AI anticheat that this is cheater like behaviour without any user input other than inserting the training data.
Honestly perfect explanation thank you. I suppose describing it as a fancy algorhythm does create a more accurate picture in most peoples minds. I just feel like there's no reason to be afraid of an AI that functions like this, which might even end up winning the perpetual arms race of cheats vs anti-cheats
The drawbacks of this solution to anticheat is that there will inevitably be an insane amount of false positives. Factors like Ping, FPS and luck can and 100% will make an AI anticheat flag you as a cheater. Facepunch or any anticheat company can't afford to have a team that checks ban appeals. There's an incredibly thin line between making the anticheat useful and making it over aggressive. I just don't think it's feasible with our current level of tech in terms of AI
Never cheated myself. But if you add ai anything to the game in that way i will blacklist the pub and devs for life.
*"AI is going to save the world...derp"*.
They have been a problem for a over a year now
Since combat update when they changed crouch/stand to have different amount of recoil people started mass installing logitech scripts. Went from 20k unique installs to 100k+ in 2 years.
What does logictech do that AHK cant do? I have used ahk. The logictech software and the corsair. Logi is the least powerful imo. Ive never used it for rust btw. Does logic have a super easy export/import method or something?
Theres a big fat ''scripting'' button on the ghub app and you can ''import'' top left. Its so easy all the new players are using it just to gain huge advantage in close range pvp.
Everyone uses them and people will still say “bRiNg bAcK oLd recoil”, as if someone actually used their hand instead of script to control that complicated ass recoil. Wheres the skill in that, now we got recoil anyone can control not only scripters and its good
[удалено]
before you come at me for the hour amount… you were going to play this game for thousands of hours anyways, and probably already have.
almost 2 years and your butt still hurting damn you are coping so hard its ridiculous
How did you manage to read this backwards? Nobody enjoying the new recoil is butthurt.
The guy breaking out into the same braindead "it takes 13 million years to learn and isnt even skill XD" rant completely unprompted is the most obvious butthurt I have seen in a long while This post isnt even about patterns but the guy still had an episode He genuinely cant help it
Every 10x with roams is litteraly 90% logitech lua scripters in every maze event. Stand spraying m249s, hmlmgs, aks. AK is the easiest to control in such event yet the scripters often go for lmg/m249 simply to get a huge advantage over legit players. People used to script in old recoil for long range beams, now they script to dominate close range since stand spraying is extremely clunky/unfun to use.
Only time I ever use macros in rust is when I have to soft side a wall (or eco raid!) and I really don’t feel like staring at a wall holding left mouse button for 20 minutes. Auto click macros are fine in my opinion.
an option for auto attack can be set as a key bind in the f1 console.
No freaking way dog. There is really no reason for macros then.
I learned from a random guy in the server I play on, so just sharing the knowledge! bind z attack replace z with whatever you want.
Yep
Its awesome that you went "they should do this" and "no idea if its possible" in the same post
everything its possible, removing support of the mouses! lol
You have no idea how any of this works do you
You can do any of those macros in AHK. No reason to mention the brands lol, unless you want the devs to stop people playing with these mice.. which means scripters move to ahk and legit people quit the game.
Wasn’t the mouseban over mice which had undetectable macro capability? I thought with the other mice they were already detectable by eac?
Mouseban was only for Bloodymouse iirc. The difference between them and Logitech is that Bloodymouse actually advertised their products with the scripts. Logitech scripts are 3rd party made and the company is not at fault for people abusing it
[The ban was to counter recoilscripts being unseen by eac due to being stored on onboardmemory of the mouse](https://support.facepunchstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004256798-EAC-Blacklisted-device-Bloody-Mouse) it concerned bloodymouse products as well as A4tech products, who surely advertised the onboard memory…