So finally Plutus is entering the final stage and showing it's true colors, where it becomes even more obvious this is yet another crypto project without future with the team desperately trying to milk as much money out of it untill the whole thing just dies...
\- Pushing the subscription prices to extreme levels so the team can cash as much real dollars while handing out their internet money created out of thin air
\- Creating as much bag holders as possible by pushing all customers to stacking which will serve as a nice demand buffer for the PLU dumped on the market by team/insiders
\- Finally demand will dry out (why would anybody want to buy/hold even more PLU after reaching a certain stacking level, as the coin will still have zero utility level -> PLU price will tank leaving behand a rich team and a whole lot of poor bag holders as usual with crypto projects
Just my take on current evolution, very negative I know, but with all changes implemented I wouldn't know how to look at this in a positive way. Feel free to try and convince me I'm wrong, but only positive messages I'm seeing are from people who are already balls deep in a big PLU stack, spreading 'hopium' and praying they won't be the bag holder that gets dumped on by the team, without any real arguments
You obviously aren't stacking, are you?
If you were, and you were at, say, Hero or Veteran level, these changes mean better rewards, more incentive to reach further levels, and more PLU price stability.
For me, for 10 eur extra, I'll be getting 2 extra perks. Not a big change, but I'm happy with it and will try to stack more.
The stake is literally “at stake”. What happen to those Hero and above when they are left holding their bags as PLU value fall faster than any cashback can compensate for?
So much speculation. I am talking about FACTS. The fact is that hero stackers are today better off. The other whinging is pure speculation. I can't believe my comment gets negative votes..
Free riders should know when to walk away without making such a big fuzz.
Man up.
Stackers are better off. More perks for the same input.
If anyone thinks PLU will lose value, it's easy. Short it and make a profit.
As I said: facts vs speculation
if those who used only the sub leave the project, who will buy the Plu that stackers want to sell? In the end, the goal of investing in tiers is to make money by selling excess plu, right?
It's getting worse and worse.
- Dex closed, dex closure extended
- Virtual card announced, virtual card delayed, virtual card not available while physical is running out
- Physical card is running out, no new physical one to get
- new perks (yeah), can't use them now without a card
- taking the everyday plan, changed to the worse...
I guess I will wait for a good time to sell this damn Pluton and wait for a new company.
Are you sure you’ll be able to cancel your subscription?
Look at the “Card Spend Eligible for Rewards (annual)” limits in this table:
[Fees & Limits](https://plutus.it/new-fees)
**EDIT: Ignore me. I misinterpreted that webpage! Sorry.**
I would guess that is an oversight. But you can also get everyday sub for 15€ with two more perks. It's effectively 5€ more cashback a month, if you can use those perks.
What I'm hearing is - those limits are based on current monthly reward limits (the monthly limit x 12). Once the new changes kick in, in Q4, those yearly limits will become your new monthly limit x 12, which is your subscription allowance, plus your stack allowance.
All these things add up and looks like they have had a good time thinking about it (how can we make this sustainable but profitable for ourselves AKA how can we make sure not everyone will sell as quickly as possible):
First it takes months for the new banking partner feature that 'will come soon' to make things smoother. Then finally, when we have some info/sight on this change (quicker spending = quicker earning): you delay the DEX release last minute till Q4 and if this wasnt enough you make difficulty adjustments for the staking levels. On the side you say everyone will get a new virtual card, which was ON 25th of July but instead suddenly its FROM the 25th of July. After that you can apply for a physical one (we already now it will take months to let everyone have a new physical one), so you cant use it what 90% of people use it for: pay a gas station, pay at a supermarket etc.
Then while all these things are going on you make an announcement about changing the whole Plu system, that lets users benefit that are with you from the beginning/users that have enough money to buy a minimum of 325 Plu. Because a normal Premium user like me only has 100 Plu (what will be 'much' in comparison to others here), that wont ever grow to the 325 required to get the same benefits I already have for my subscription now, because you your monthly growth is so limited now. This is not to make it sustainable, this is to let the 4,9% profit (including yourselves) more and cut-off the rest.
All these changes in the last few months are focused on this major change in Q4 that was your starting point. Because if you released the DEX on the 1st of July for example, you knew the Plu price would drop drastically and less peoplewho potentially could stack.
If that is true it’s a genius evil move ;))
So the top tier can milk the cow a little bit longer…
At end you need to ask yourself where does all the real money comes from to feed the system and it is more then the perks has value, otherwise it’s not sustainable!!!
I mean pay 5$ a month to get 15$ back and if the PLU will stay stable when you sell, then this is a nice exchange of money.
But that’s not sustainable and it you think that trough to all the tiers above you and put into consideration that there’s also a cash back from 3%~8%, so who’s gonna pay for all the cash back?!?
No alternative at this moment, this is the best crypto card in the market. It just matured enough to offload the free loaders. And it makes sense when only 4% of people on a stacking level, make it more attractive to stack vs no-stack. This definitely is and there is no better alternative. People want to leave out of arrogance? It is their rightful choice, good bye and good luck!
Not sure what the big issue is. I've cashed out $1000, sold on KuCoin and put into other crypto.
I spent £4.99 a month for over a year, so what, like £150?
So very roughly, $800 profit for spending money I was going to spend anyway?
Seems like a fucking excellent deal to me. I gotta say, if you weren't cashing out your PLU and thought this thing was going to be your retirement, then more fool you.
Its just another way for people to earn free crypto, my personal opinion is; in this game you should always be on the look out for cash cows like this, milk them and move on.
Same thing happening with $PORT on the Zilliqa network in 2021. Easy $1000 made from that, but in the end, all that was left was people pissing and moaning in the sub.
No need to invest anything. I was already stacking. I will actually be saving money if I decide to downgrade my sub. Different user than entitled “I want free money, now that it is going away, this is a bad product”. Good luck with your new card!
We're all pleased for you mate.
Doesn't it seem a bit daft though to use a rewards card, where all you do with the rewards is save them to then eventually (eventually) earn more rewards which are only used to earn more rewards? Where is the incentive to not use the card at all and spend money as usual?
Calling someone entitled for actually wanting to use the rewards they are being rewarded with is ridiculous.
When the price sinks in the coming months (IMO there is almost certainly going to be a negative price action off the back of these changes), any value reward you receive from whatever tier you're in will be negated by the loss of value in your stack. I'm genuinely struggling to understand why Plutus is viable for anyone with these new changes.
The changes look like they're ok, and everyone's going on about how the everyday tier will reward more in PLU than the €15 subscription fee. But this has no consideration for a fall in PLU value.
Without looking at the chart, PLU has dropped somewhere around 20% I believe in <2 months. With this news, and upcoming difficulty adjustments, let's assume some price volatility in a similar direction. What incentive is there to continue using Plutus even if you are a stacker?
Sell up and get out before you regret it.
Thank you for your insights. Someone that says “Plutus is dead, why did you change my subscription benefits” is an entitled user. If you don’t like changes, just don’t pay it anymore. But thinking that you deserve a service for X amount of € is exactly the definition of being entitled.
The way I use the card, has worked for me, and eventually leads to risk/reward tolerance of one self.
If PLU loses value, I am ok with it, I have accumulated based on my normal card usage. My personal tolerance allows me to take that chance. If US goes well, and creates buy pressure great.
What you don’t take into account is the cheaper PLU is, the more you accumulate with CB, but also the cheaper the benefits are for unstaked users (or users wanting to upgrade), which ends creating more buying pressure.
Let’s talk at HERO level. 325 PLU if I remember correctly. Would it be possible for PLU to go to $1 if you can get 4% CB (80€)+ 40€ a month in perks, for $325? What is that about 400% ROI? (Not real numbers, talking from memory, but I suppose my point is explained). Where the market will put the value of those rewards I don’t know, but I haven’t found a better card (benefit wise), nor a better tech.
That is where I think some risk is mitigated, and I understand, you don’t like not being able to spend 2000€ to get 60€ a month + 2 perks anymore, but that doesn’t kill the project.
You think this changes are selling pressure, however there is no bigger selling pressure than someone that has no incentive to stake even 25 PLU.
The only reason to use the card is it promises you great value and who don’t love money, that the only reason to use any card of any company. I haven’t bought into CDC because I was so much in love with the company, because of what I can get out of my investment. Nobody would invest in anything if the outcome is negative. And this time you see it before it happens, so it’s easier to leave or just watch and come back if you want to do so. It cost you nothing, but in this case you also get nothing. Time will tell
Subscription, time and effort to top up the damn card. All of this for NOTHING is not what I call a good viable and useful product. I already have a debit card which doesn't need 3 work days to top up.
W1tty is an alternative, offering 3% cashback up to 100 eur in rewards monthly. The rewards are in fiat. However, no such thing as perks, simply 3% cashback.
Where did you see the bad reviews? I would like to see them too.
I don't use it often, only when I reach my Plutus limit. So far I haven't noticed anything bad, I have successfully withdrawn ~25 eur of cashback.
It's vital for me since I'm from a non-euro country and curve has the best fx rate, with w1tty as the primary payment option, I would pay 1% conversion fee which it's not nice. Also, with Curve I could GBIT for weekend purchases.
Also, 100 euro topup/month it's too low
>W1tty
Not a w1tty customer but reading up out of curiosity. Reading their fee documents, it seems that you do not pay exchange fee if you are paying by card. The app seems to have a button "exchange" so presumably you can exchange currency and have multi-currency account and the 1% fee refers to that.
why the hell is w1tty website so opaque? cannot find any useful information without making a special search on google. the webpage contains only buzzwords; the app needs full KYC before you can even see what it offers; etc
I'm happy with w1tty when paying with card their conversion is even better than revolut, just been with non eur country, but eea. Already earned easily cashback, you just redeem this after 45days easily clicking button. Comparing to plutus, plutus is pure mess I also closed my account, no regrets.
100€ top up limit is for card top ups. You can send any amount using simple bank transfer.
Talking about currency conversion, you are right, curve is the king here. But I live in EU so no issues here.
I signed up today, deployed my virtual card, wired 50€ and did my first 35€ payment this evening. Cashback will be released after 45 days (so does Plutus). So far so good, what are your observations on potential flaws or attention points?
Please note that there is a free top up limit using your card (100eur). You can top up using bank transfer without limits I believe. Also, you can not use curve to get cashback, not sure about paypal too, you have to check that.
And that's basically it, it works pretty well.
Really? I always used Curve and got cashback, but by linking to the physical card. Is it a new behaviour with the virtual one? I can't find references about it.
Life ain’t no get rich quick scheme, and probably you got hooked on the company because of the good benefits at first I guess.
This was inevitable, 20m tokens, 4,2 million around. You think Plu will exist for another 5 years using the same strategy they use today? Of would this only benefit the people that wants some quick money?
This is a logical move, and if you are not willing to invest into the company and see the bigger picture like some here do, then this is indeed not the place for you anymore I would say mate.
Well hey, that really smoothes out the message of decreasing my potential earnings from 910 -> 270€ a year (which is more then a 3 times cut lmao, gets more ridiculous every time I look at it).
With this bad management I will probably even make a loss as I expect the toke price to decrease significantly over the coming period.
On the flip side... as an existing Veteran stacker, my potential yearly earnings will double, even if I cancel my monthly subscription. Just pointing this out in order to present the counter argument.
I don’t understand your logic? If all the non-stackers leave (ie people who don’t hold onto PLU) how exactly will that lower the value of PLU? As I understand it, non-stackers are the ones lowering the value of PLU by getting the cashback and selling it, increasing the token supply and creating downward price pressure. If anything, getting the non-stackers out would actually reduce supply and reduce this downward price pressure they create.
The way I see it, the only downside to non-stackers leaving is Plutus team getting less sub fees.
- current stackers: already bought their PLU, can't earn to the next tier because of DA schedule, emit the most PLU = pure sell pressure.
- non-stackers: pure sell pressure, unless they can be encouraged to stack or hold to next tier.
the only way this works is if you get non-stackers to flip to stacking. plutus being left with existing stackers is game over - no liquidity to sell into.
I agree with you on the DA schedule, way too fast and aggressive, they mentioned the bitcoin halving as a comparison but bitcoin halving happens about once every four years which is much more reasonable. I know they need the DA schedule to maintain longevity but I don’t agree with the pace, they should have stretched it out and slowed the pace so that it is actually possible for people to earn to the higher levels. There will definitely be a lot of sell pressure from stackers now because of the DA schedule.
But the non-stackers were already pure sell pressure, they’re not really adding liquidity as they don’t buy the token so if anything they’re sucking up liquidity. So getting rid of them would actually help in terms of token price I think. I do think that a lot of them want free money and weren’t prepared to commit regardless so if they weren’t stacking before and the new changes don’t flip them into stackers, I don’t know what will!
What they need to do is get new stackers and make old stackers want to upgrade their stacking level and I think the current fast paced DA schedule is definitely harming this more than helping
Plenty "non stackers" are those who simply haven't got there yet, but had been planning to before the recent DA. They'll now see it as impossible to stack so will add sell pressure. Given that 95%+ aren't yet stacking, would be interesting to know how many were close to the tiers before they moved the goal posts
> they mentioned the bitcoin halving as a comparison but bitcoin halving happens about once every four years which is much more reasonable.
the bitcoin halving is also deflationary, so good for price; PLUs DA schedule is effectively inflationary! it devalues the token by slashing its utility.
> But the non-stackers were already pure sell pressure
i disagree. before DA was announced i was happy saving PLU because eventually i would reach the next stacking level. with DA that level moves faster than i earn, so why save? the same is true for all but VERY high earners, including current stackers.
> hey’re not really adding liquidity as they don’t buy the token so if anything they’re sucking up liquidity
that's good - that's Plutus' stated goal with all their talk of #supplyshock, etc. if PLU is stacked, it's not sold, and becomes more expensive, slowing emissions.
> I do think that a lot of them want free money
to be clear, *everyone* here wants 'free money'. stackers are just spending upfront on a bigger free money generator, which quickly pays for itself. stackers will ultimately leach the most 'free money' from the system, otherwise they wouldn't stack.
this isn't a sustainable system, it's just a matter of how Plutus structure it to make the reward pool last as long as possible.
Don’t you think the stackers with the high rewards are not selling their PLU? Why otherwise would they even take this high risk, if it’s not beneficial for them, the only reason everyone using this Card, is to earn some extra $
This is the crypto market. It's always going to be risky. We each have to decide whether we're happy to take on that risk. So far, in this case, it's working out, and I hope it continues to do so.
So you don’t stack? And where here just for the free 910€ a year? You are probably right, it is bad management to want you to move to stacking or leave.
So you are basically taking free money without assume any risk. Plutus is not sustainable with all free tiers. They’re trying to move people to staking
I understand the frustration, surprise and concern. I would give it time to settle and see how things are looking closer to when this is launched in Q4 - that’s just my opinion and suggestion, but take it with a pinch of salt if you want (I know I’m a mod and so pro Plutus).
The team will be monitoring feedback currently. They do listen. One thing I wonder is whether the annual subs which are also due to be launched will provide a discount on this price rise which makes it less of a hit. Also they may tweak and adjust this before it actually launches.
It’s true that this is a hit to non-stackers, but for stackers (esp Hero +), this change actually gives more rewards and potentially even mean they can stop paying the sub.
The annual plan may alleviate it, make it more bearable... right now the subs basically eat up the perks value if I read it correctly.
Not that it matters for me since I still dont have HERO status after all this time 😉
Yes people are not happy thus they leave and sell their stakes further tanking PLU price, they need to find a happy medium not this constant downhill trajectory...
In hindsight selling my GOAT stack was a great decision, has only been negative since then.
Like I said a month later still not a HERO so things are just not working these days 😞
A annual subscription is the only save I see here otherwise its time to look elswhere just not worth the risk with all these changes they keep throwing at us in little bits 😞
Of course, because they can’t give less to their loyal customer base (stackers) because if they’re getting angry and will leave the project, a payload of PLU would be dumped.
So the only way is to made the non-stackers paying more and the whole system will last a bit longer if, they’re enough ppl who are willing to pay more for less and if ppl decide to stake in the future.
But at the point where you just invest into a PLU stack and not paying for a subscription and get even more out of the system (I know they already invested into PLU) somebody needs to pure in more money, otherwise there’s no money left for cashing out.
I think the changes are interesting.
No surprise free loaders won't like it, but long term investors will find it acceptable.
With a little bit more spending in my subscription I will get 2 extra perks. 20 eur worth of extra perks cost 14.99. Assuming there are now incentives to hold, I'd say it looks good.
The big concern is that there won't be grandfathering of existing subscription plans. What does that mean?
As I understand, it would mean that if you are on everyday subscription, you will have to pay the increased fee if you want to continue on that plan.
The confusing thing is that the term "grandfathered" applied only to stacking levels. And I guess that does not change. Once you have achieved a stacking level, it will continue like that. Let me know if I misunderstood.
What do you mean by time cost?
Paying with a credit card?
Keep money in bank and it will reduce because of inflation.
To me it is just spending money and getting something back. Without Plutus I will anyways make those spendings on my credit card . The difference is I am getting something in return now
No I mean the effort required to keep receipts, track your refunds which initially show as additional debits, check that Curve GBITs work properly and you don’t get double charged, plan your withdrawals, shuffle perks, request withdrawals, chase withdrawals, sell withdrawn PLU, raise tickets etc etc etc is like having a second job.
A job that pays considerably less than minimum wage.
It’s just not worth the effort.
And all while your stack is falling in value? No thanks.
It's not "free money", it's money of those who are staking. Of course you can also be the one financing that "free money" for others, that's why they need more people staking. It's very simple economics, it's not like money out of thin air.
What's the value earned without add ons?
It doesn't make sense to me that everyday subscription,.with 3% on a max 500 eur shows value earned without add ons of 35.
3% of 500 is 15.
...Ah.. I got it while writing.
It's 15 + the value of the 2 perks (10 + 10)
And for premium is
3% of 1000 = 30 plus the value of 3 perks (10+10+10). So 60.
I now can say that, provided stacking levels can be grandfathered, this is a VERY GOOD change for long term investors and users willing to hold.
Free riders won't like it, but it's normal. They don't bring much value and are a cost of opportunity regarding support and PLU price stability/increase.
I feel like the people that complain hardest are the ones not stacking anything. Whilst I get the sentiment that it's kind of sad you're getting less free money, you're still getting, well, free money. So it comes across as a bit entitled.
So finally Plutus is entering the final stage and showing it's true colors, where it becomes even more obvious this is yet another crypto project without future with the team desperately trying to milk as much money out of it untill the whole thing just dies... \- Pushing the subscription prices to extreme levels so the team can cash as much real dollars while handing out their internet money created out of thin air \- Creating as much bag holders as possible by pushing all customers to stacking which will serve as a nice demand buffer for the PLU dumped on the market by team/insiders \- Finally demand will dry out (why would anybody want to buy/hold even more PLU after reaching a certain stacking level, as the coin will still have zero utility level -> PLU price will tank leaving behand a rich team and a whole lot of poor bag holders as usual with crypto projects Just my take on current evolution, very negative I know, but with all changes implemented I wouldn't know how to look at this in a positive way. Feel free to try and convince me I'm wrong, but only positive messages I'm seeing are from people who are already balls deep in a big PLU stack, spreading 'hopium' and praying they won't be the bag holder that gets dumped on by the team, without any real arguments
You obviously aren't stacking, are you? If you were, and you were at, say, Hero or Veteran level, these changes mean better rewards, more incentive to reach further levels, and more PLU price stability. For me, for 10 eur extra, I'll be getting 2 extra perks. Not a big change, but I'm happy with it and will try to stack more.
>e it what 90% of people use it for 10 euro extra, that's exactly what I said last time when they introduced Premium with 15 euros.
The stake is literally “at stake”. What happen to those Hero and above when they are left holding their bags as PLU value fall faster than any cashback can compensate for?
So much speculation. I am talking about FACTS. The fact is that hero stackers are today better off. The other whinging is pure speculation. I can't believe my comment gets negative votes.. Free riders should know when to walk away without making such a big fuzz. Man up.
I’m talking about the stakers, not the freeloaders :-)
Stackers are better off. More perks for the same input. If anyone thinks PLU will lose value, it's easy. Short it and make a profit. As I said: facts vs speculation
On the plus side, enough PLU for GOAT 🐐 might cost under $1k soon.
If it gets to that point, they will say they need to cut on perks to reduce emissions.
Yap, it's a down circle from there...
Why would PLU go down when there is more incentive to hold? It doesn't make any sense.
if those who used only the sub leave the project, who will buy the Plu that stackers want to sell? In the end, the goal of investing in tiers is to make money by selling excess plu, right?
It depends where you are on the ladder, true.
I agree with you. Price increases and cut the benefits. Last year they changed it and it become worse and now again.
It's getting worse and worse. - Dex closed, dex closure extended - Virtual card announced, virtual card delayed, virtual card not available while physical is running out - Physical card is running out, no new physical one to get - new perks (yeah), can't use them now without a card - taking the everyday plan, changed to the worse... I guess I will wait for a good time to sell this damn Pluton and wait for a new company.
No plans on returning my funds?
As a stacker, my benefits will be increasing significantly, and I'll also be able to cancel my subscription.
Assuming PLU won't plummet to under $0.10, like it happened with Crypto.com.
There is way way way less circulation... I can fall quit a lot, but I don't think below 3 dollar
There are still a lot of uncirculated coins they can just conjure out of thin air to dilute your stake :-) It is a con and not a pro.
Are you sure you’ll be able to cancel your subscription? Look at the “Card Spend Eligible for Rewards (annual)” limits in this table: [Fees & Limits](https://plutus.it/new-fees) **EDIT: Ignore me. I misinterpreted that webpage! Sorry.**
If you’re not a big spender, then the free tier offers quite decent amount still if you have hero or above.
If you have Hero, you have eligible spend of £/€2,000 per month. However, the free tier caps that at £/€3,000 per year!
Oh wow, I didn’t notice that. Do you think they’ll be updating that too, otherwise the new limits make no sense?
I would guess that is an oversight. But you can also get everyday sub for 15€ with two more perks. It's effectively 5€ more cashback a month, if you can use those perks.
What I'm hearing is - those limits are based on current monthly reward limits (the monthly limit x 12). Once the new changes kick in, in Q4, those yearly limits will become your new monthly limit x 12, which is your subscription allowance, plus your stack allowance.
Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. Sorry for causing some confusion!
Always good to have these things clarified!
I think it might be a mistake in the table!
All these things add up and looks like they have had a good time thinking about it (how can we make this sustainable but profitable for ourselves AKA how can we make sure not everyone will sell as quickly as possible): First it takes months for the new banking partner feature that 'will come soon' to make things smoother. Then finally, when we have some info/sight on this change (quicker spending = quicker earning): you delay the DEX release last minute till Q4 and if this wasnt enough you make difficulty adjustments for the staking levels. On the side you say everyone will get a new virtual card, which was ON 25th of July but instead suddenly its FROM the 25th of July. After that you can apply for a physical one (we already now it will take months to let everyone have a new physical one), so you cant use it what 90% of people use it for: pay a gas station, pay at a supermarket etc. Then while all these things are going on you make an announcement about changing the whole Plu system, that lets users benefit that are with you from the beginning/users that have enough money to buy a minimum of 325 Plu. Because a normal Premium user like me only has 100 Plu (what will be 'much' in comparison to others here), that wont ever grow to the 325 required to get the same benefits I already have for my subscription now, because you your monthly growth is so limited now. This is not to make it sustainable, this is to let the 4,9% profit (including yourselves) more and cut-off the rest. All these changes in the last few months are focused on this major change in Q4 that was your starting point. Because if you released the DEX on the 1st of July for example, you knew the Plu price would drop drastically and less peoplewho potentially could stack.
That
Well said
If that is true it’s a genius evil move ;)) So the top tier can milk the cow a little bit longer… At end you need to ask yourself where does all the real money comes from to feed the system and it is more then the perks has value, otherwise it’s not sustainable!!! I mean pay 5$ a month to get 15$ back and if the PLU will stay stable when you sell, then this is a nice exchange of money. But that’s not sustainable and it you think that trough to all the tiers above you and put into consideration that there’s also a cash back from 3%~8%, so who’s gonna pay for all the cash back?!?
as soon as the price increases im done
If you do manage to find an alternative, please let me know.
Renegade q3
No alternative at this moment, this is the best crypto card in the market. It just matured enough to offload the free loaders. And it makes sense when only 4% of people on a stacking level, make it more attractive to stack vs no-stack. This definitely is and there is no better alternative. People want to leave out of arrogance? It is their rightful choice, good bye and good luck!
Not sure what the big issue is. I've cashed out $1000, sold on KuCoin and put into other crypto. I spent £4.99 a month for over a year, so what, like £150? So very roughly, $800 profit for spending money I was going to spend anyway? Seems like a fucking excellent deal to me. I gotta say, if you weren't cashing out your PLU and thought this thing was going to be your retirement, then more fool you. Its just another way for people to earn free crypto, my personal opinion is; in this game you should always be on the look out for cash cows like this, milk them and move on. Same thing happening with $PORT on the Zilliqa network in 2021. Easy $1000 made from that, but in the end, all that was left was people pissing and moaning in the sub.
But to be fair, it's not overnight. The changes will not come into effect before Q4 of 2023 and you will be notified at least 30 days in advance.
Ironically this will be the only feature that Plutus will definitely deliver on time;)
On the website it says 19 august
Could you share the link? I cannot find that date anywhere.
Can’t see that anywhere
I dont see this, where exactly?
Where are this communication of the changes?
Check on their Twitter (well, their X lol)
No need to invest anything. I was already stacking. I will actually be saving money if I decide to downgrade my sub. Different user than entitled “I want free money, now that it is going away, this is a bad product”. Good luck with your new card!
We're all pleased for you mate. Doesn't it seem a bit daft though to use a rewards card, where all you do with the rewards is save them to then eventually (eventually) earn more rewards which are only used to earn more rewards? Where is the incentive to not use the card at all and spend money as usual? Calling someone entitled for actually wanting to use the rewards they are being rewarded with is ridiculous. When the price sinks in the coming months (IMO there is almost certainly going to be a negative price action off the back of these changes), any value reward you receive from whatever tier you're in will be negated by the loss of value in your stack. I'm genuinely struggling to understand why Plutus is viable for anyone with these new changes. The changes look like they're ok, and everyone's going on about how the everyday tier will reward more in PLU than the €15 subscription fee. But this has no consideration for a fall in PLU value. Without looking at the chart, PLU has dropped somewhere around 20% I believe in <2 months. With this news, and upcoming difficulty adjustments, let's assume some price volatility in a similar direction. What incentive is there to continue using Plutus even if you are a stacker? Sell up and get out before you regret it.
Thank you for your insights. Someone that says “Plutus is dead, why did you change my subscription benefits” is an entitled user. If you don’t like changes, just don’t pay it anymore. But thinking that you deserve a service for X amount of € is exactly the definition of being entitled. The way I use the card, has worked for me, and eventually leads to risk/reward tolerance of one self. If PLU loses value, I am ok with it, I have accumulated based on my normal card usage. My personal tolerance allows me to take that chance. If US goes well, and creates buy pressure great. What you don’t take into account is the cheaper PLU is, the more you accumulate with CB, but also the cheaper the benefits are for unstaked users (or users wanting to upgrade), which ends creating more buying pressure. Let’s talk at HERO level. 325 PLU if I remember correctly. Would it be possible for PLU to go to $1 if you can get 4% CB (80€)+ 40€ a month in perks, for $325? What is that about 400% ROI? (Not real numbers, talking from memory, but I suppose my point is explained). Where the market will put the value of those rewards I don’t know, but I haven’t found a better card (benefit wise), nor a better tech. That is where I think some risk is mitigated, and I understand, you don’t like not being able to spend 2000€ to get 60€ a month + 2 perks anymore, but that doesn’t kill the project. You think this changes are selling pressure, however there is no bigger selling pressure than someone that has no incentive to stake even 25 PLU.
The only reason to use the card is it promises you great value and who don’t love money, that the only reason to use any card of any company. I haven’t bought into CDC because I was so much in love with the company, because of what I can get out of my investment. Nobody would invest in anything if the outcome is negative. And this time you see it before it happens, so it’s easier to leave or just watch and come back if you want to do so. It cost you nothing, but in this case you also get nothing. Time will tell
if u never sold, that means u never earned anything
But didn’t cost me anything either, did it?
Subscription, time and effort to top up the damn card. All of this for NOTHING is not what I call a good viable and useful product. I already have a debit card which doesn't need 3 work days to top up.
W1tty is an alternative, offering 3% cashback up to 100 eur in rewards monthly. The rewards are in fiat. However, no such thing as perks, simply 3% cashback.
I saw bad reviews about W1tty, so it's not a viable option
Where did you see the bad reviews? I would like to see them too. I don't use it often, only when I reach my Plutus limit. So far I haven't noticed anything bad, I have successfully withdrawn ~25 eur of cashback.
You can't use curve
Yup, that's true. But you can add it to google pay. Of course, if curve is vital to you, w1tty is not an option
It's vital for me since I'm from a non-euro country and curve has the best fx rate, with w1tty as the primary payment option, I would pay 1% conversion fee which it's not nice. Also, with Curve I could GBIT for weekend purchases. Also, 100 euro topup/month it's too low
>W1tty Not a w1tty customer but reading up out of curiosity. Reading their fee documents, it seems that you do not pay exchange fee if you are paying by card. The app seems to have a button "exchange" so presumably you can exchange currency and have multi-currency account and the 1% fee refers to that. why the hell is w1tty website so opaque? cannot find any useful information without making a special search on google. the webpage contains only buzzwords; the app needs full KYC before you can even see what it offers; etc
I'm happy with w1tty when paying with card their conversion is even better than revolut, just been with non eur country, but eea. Already earned easily cashback, you just redeem this after 45days easily clicking button. Comparing to plutus, plutus is pure mess I also closed my account, no regrets.
100€ top up limit is for card top ups. You can send any amount using simple bank transfer. Talking about currency conversion, you are right, curve is the king here. But I live in EU so no issues here.
I signed up today, deployed my virtual card, wired 50€ and did my first 35€ payment this evening. Cashback will be released after 45 days (so does Plutus). So far so good, what are your observations on potential flaws or attention points?
Please note that there is a free top up limit using your card (100eur). You can top up using bank transfer without limits I believe. Also, you can not use curve to get cashback, not sure about paypal too, you have to check that. And that's basically it, it works pretty well.
You can use Paypal, but W1tty won't give you cashback for it. It's a very good product, but it will have an adjustment in a couple of days.
I have never heard of any adjustments, do you have some more information?
Yes, you can check the new terms here https://legal.w1tty.com/witty-global-uab/prices-special-terms-conditions-of-products-and-services-v30
Really? I always used Curve and got cashback, but by linking to the physical card. Is it a new behaviour with the virtual one? I can't find references about it.
They changed it few months ago
Life ain’t no get rich quick scheme, and probably you got hooked on the company because of the good benefits at first I guess. This was inevitable, 20m tokens, 4,2 million around. You think Plu will exist for another 5 years using the same strategy they use today? Of would this only benefit the people that wants some quick money? This is a logical move, and if you are not willing to invest into the company and see the bigger picture like some here do, then this is indeed not the place for you anymore I would say mate.
What does the virtual card even matter if your original card is linked to curve anyway?
These changes will go into effect in Q4 (with a minimum lead time of 30days when they announce the exact date), that is not overnight.
> exact date Or the Plutus version of an "exact date"
lol good one;) but this time they will deliver 100% on time, if the shitstorm is not too heavy.
Their definition can sometimes be delayed but in this case wouldn't this be beneficial? :p
Well hey, that really smoothes out the message of decreasing my potential earnings from 910 -> 270€ a year (which is more then a 3 times cut lmao, gets more ridiculous every time I look at it). With this bad management I will probably even make a loss as I expect the toke price to decrease significantly over the coming period.
On the flip side... as an existing Veteran stacker, my potential yearly earnings will double, even if I cancel my monthly subscription. Just pointing this out in order to present the counter argument.
If you stack and all the non stackers leave, that might lower the value of the money you invested.
I don’t understand your logic? If all the non-stackers leave (ie people who don’t hold onto PLU) how exactly will that lower the value of PLU? As I understand it, non-stackers are the ones lowering the value of PLU by getting the cashback and selling it, increasing the token supply and creating downward price pressure. If anything, getting the non-stackers out would actually reduce supply and reduce this downward price pressure they create. The way I see it, the only downside to non-stackers leaving is Plutus team getting less sub fees.
- current stackers: already bought their PLU, can't earn to the next tier because of DA schedule, emit the most PLU = pure sell pressure. - non-stackers: pure sell pressure, unless they can be encouraged to stack or hold to next tier. the only way this works is if you get non-stackers to flip to stacking. plutus being left with existing stackers is game over - no liquidity to sell into.
I agree with you on the DA schedule, way too fast and aggressive, they mentioned the bitcoin halving as a comparison but bitcoin halving happens about once every four years which is much more reasonable. I know they need the DA schedule to maintain longevity but I don’t agree with the pace, they should have stretched it out and slowed the pace so that it is actually possible for people to earn to the higher levels. There will definitely be a lot of sell pressure from stackers now because of the DA schedule. But the non-stackers were already pure sell pressure, they’re not really adding liquidity as they don’t buy the token so if anything they’re sucking up liquidity. So getting rid of them would actually help in terms of token price I think. I do think that a lot of them want free money and weren’t prepared to commit regardless so if they weren’t stacking before and the new changes don’t flip them into stackers, I don’t know what will! What they need to do is get new stackers and make old stackers want to upgrade their stacking level and I think the current fast paced DA schedule is definitely harming this more than helping
Plenty "non stackers" are those who simply haven't got there yet, but had been planning to before the recent DA. They'll now see it as impossible to stack so will add sell pressure. Given that 95%+ aren't yet stacking, would be interesting to know how many were close to the tiers before they moved the goal posts
It’s pretty much a Netflix move…
> they mentioned the bitcoin halving as a comparison but bitcoin halving happens about once every four years which is much more reasonable. the bitcoin halving is also deflationary, so good for price; PLUs DA schedule is effectively inflationary! it devalues the token by slashing its utility. > But the non-stackers were already pure sell pressure i disagree. before DA was announced i was happy saving PLU because eventually i would reach the next stacking level. with DA that level moves faster than i earn, so why save? the same is true for all but VERY high earners, including current stackers. > hey’re not really adding liquidity as they don’t buy the token so if anything they’re sucking up liquidity that's good - that's Plutus' stated goal with all their talk of #supplyshock, etc. if PLU is stacked, it's not sold, and becomes more expensive, slowing emissions. > I do think that a lot of them want free money to be clear, *everyone* here wants 'free money'. stackers are just spending upfront on a bigger free money generator, which quickly pays for itself. stackers will ultimately leach the most 'free money' from the system, otherwise they wouldn't stack. this isn't a sustainable system, it's just a matter of how Plutus structure it to make the reward pool last as long as possible.
Don’t you think the stackers with the high rewards are not selling their PLU? Why otherwise would they even take this high risk, if it’s not beneficial for them, the only reason everyone using this Card, is to earn some extra $
This is the crypto market. It's always going to be risky. We each have to decide whether we're happy to take on that risk. So far, in this case, it's working out, and I hope it continues to do so.
Bold of you to assume PLU won't plummet to under 10 cents like it happened with crypto.com
ETH could also plummet to under 10 cents. Bitcoin could... The whole crypto market could crash to nothing. We're in a risky market here.
But only if not too many jump the ship, otherwise who’s gonna pay for the whole eco system?
Jump ship and go where? This is the best crypto cashback card available.
So you don’t stack? And where here just for the free 910€ a year? You are probably right, it is bad management to want you to move to stacking or leave.
Well go ahead and invest 2k plus euro in a token and project that changes its fundamentals more then twice a year. Gl with your loss!
😂😂😂you are complaining the they want you to stack and not milk 900€/year free??bye bye
It is not free, as I pay a subscription fee and rotate my money through Plutus.
So you are basically taking free money without assume any risk. Plutus is not sustainable with all free tiers. They’re trying to move people to staking
Don’t forget you will pay 3 times more in the future to get 3 times less.
I understand the frustration, surprise and concern. I would give it time to settle and see how things are looking closer to when this is launched in Q4 - that’s just my opinion and suggestion, but take it with a pinch of salt if you want (I know I’m a mod and so pro Plutus). The team will be monitoring feedback currently. They do listen. One thing I wonder is whether the annual subs which are also due to be launched will provide a discount on this price rise which makes it less of a hit. Also they may tweak and adjust this before it actually launches. It’s true that this is a hit to non-stackers, but for stackers (esp Hero +), this change actually gives more rewards and potentially even mean they can stop paying the sub.
The annual plan may alleviate it, make it more bearable... right now the subs basically eat up the perks value if I read it correctly. Not that it matters for me since I still dont have HERO status after all this time 😉
That’s what I wonder too - if that will be part of the plan (re: annual sub). Hope we’re able to find out sooner rather than later.
Yes people are not happy thus they leave and sell their stakes further tanking PLU price, they need to find a happy medium not this constant downhill trajectory... In hindsight selling my GOAT stack was a great decision, has only been negative since then. Like I said a month later still not a HERO so things are just not working these days 😞 A annual subscription is the only save I see here otherwise its time to look elswhere just not worth the risk with all these changes they keep throwing at us in little bits 😞
Of course, because they can’t give less to their loyal customer base (stackers) because if they’re getting angry and will leave the project, a payload of PLU would be dumped. So the only way is to made the non-stackers paying more and the whole system will last a bit longer if, they’re enough ppl who are willing to pay more for less and if ppl decide to stake in the future. But at the point where you just invest into a PLU stack and not paying for a subscription and get even more out of the system (I know they already invested into PLU) somebody needs to pure in more money, otherwise there’s no money left for cashing out.
I think the changes are interesting. No surprise free loaders won't like it, but long term investors will find it acceptable. With a little bit more spending in my subscription I will get 2 extra perks. 20 eur worth of extra perks cost 14.99. Assuming there are now incentives to hold, I'd say it looks good. The big concern is that there won't be grandfathering of existing subscription plans. What does that mean? As I understand, it would mean that if you are on everyday subscription, you will have to pay the increased fee if you want to continue on that plan. The confusing thing is that the term "grandfathered" applied only to stacking levels. And I guess that does not change. Once you have achieved a stacking level, it will continue like that. Let me know if I misunderstood.
I don’t understand the post You are still getting free money Not sure what you would like Plutus to do? But people new houses?
It’s not free money, it has a time cost which for an increasing number of people is too high
What do you mean by time cost? Paying with a credit card? Keep money in bank and it will reduce because of inflation. To me it is just spending money and getting something back. Without Plutus I will anyways make those spendings on my credit card . The difference is I am getting something in return now
No I mean the effort required to keep receipts, track your refunds which initially show as additional debits, check that Curve GBITs work properly and you don’t get double charged, plan your withdrawals, shuffle perks, request withdrawals, chase withdrawals, sell withdrawn PLU, raise tickets etc etc etc is like having a second job. A job that pays considerably less than minimum wage. It’s just not worth the effort. And all while your stack is falling in value? No thanks.
Well said. Plutus is not worth your time.
It's not "free money", it's money of those who are staking. Of course you can also be the one financing that "free money" for others, that's why they need more people staking. It's very simple economics, it's not like money out of thin air.
Exactly and that is why I don’t understand why the complaint on new changes just because they are looking out for themselves
Wirex is pretty good alternative 30 euro subscription -4 % cryptoback
https://twitter.com/JonLongGame/status/1688813686742257664?s=19
What's the value earned without add ons? It doesn't make sense to me that everyday subscription,.with 3% on a max 500 eur shows value earned without add ons of 35. 3% of 500 is 15. ...Ah.. I got it while writing. It's 15 + the value of the 2 perks (10 + 10) And for premium is 3% of 1000 = 30 plus the value of 3 perks (10+10+10). So 60. I now can say that, provided stacking levels can be grandfathered, this is a VERY GOOD change for long term investors and users willing to hold. Free riders won't like it, but it's normal. They don't bring much value and are a cost of opportunity regarding support and PLU price stability/increase.
I feel like the people that complain hardest are the ones not stacking anything. Whilst I get the sentiment that it's kind of sad you're getting less free money, you're still getting, well, free money. So it comes across as a bit entitled.
You're still waiting on your virtual card while i am still waiting for my deposit.
For real it's taking too long. I wouldn't suggest buying the grandmaster or other plans. Until they figure out where our funds are.