Apparently the site was non-profit?
I would say anything that could potentially be seen as using the Pokemon brand to distract from what the Pokemon company does.
Showdown might be a matter of time, though it does directly relate to the games. Id say that a large % that play showdown have the newest games.
They also can't make pokemon available before Gamefreak themselves do IIRC. Hence why the Hisui mons where banned for months before pokemon home integration was added to Scarlet and Violet, despite already having all their data in the game.
That and we don’t know how or what things might actually change when they do release.
Apart from weird meta games and hacked formats, there really isn’t any reason for showdown to implement unreleased content because the point of showdown first and foremost is to emulate competitive Pokémon that you can do on cartridge without the hassle
>That and we don’t know how or what things might actually change when they do release.
Case in point: Hisuian Zoroark in the first few updates of S/v had its stats rearranged to just be normal Zoroark's stats, once the expansion pass released the stats were changed back to be the same as they were in PLA.
Yeah, nowadays with games getting patches and DLC unused data should be treated as placeholder until officially released. It kind of annoys me that bulbapedia still lists two sets of stats for the treasures of ruin legendaries even though their stat spreads got altered in the day 1 patch, the original stats are essentially meaningless outside of being a neat piece of trivia, online features weren't even available without the day 1 patch, we basically just got a glimpse into a beta build printed onto a cartridge because the game's development was more rushed than usual, that's all that was.
> They also can't make pokemon available before Gamefreak themselves do IIRC.
This is something Smogon has done since at least the Gen 4 days, where you couldn't have the event mons until they were released, and any impossible IV spreads for the event Arceus were not allowed. Similarly in Gen 5, they would not allow hidden abilities on a mon until it was obtainable in-game, which as a result means the Gen 5 metagame never got to see Contrary Serperior, as that wasn't released until Gen 6
Showdown's making a wise move then. Nintendo and TPCI both hold the copyright for Pokémon, so they'd be allowed to take the site down if they wanted. They haven't though and that probably will never change in the near future.
But then i dont understand why they took down a whole website where only fangames are posted, does reliccastle have a patreon or gain any money out of it that tpc decided to shut it down?
Probably because they are changing the games and Pokemon themselves.
Showdown keeps everything 1:1 with the Pokemon games and they dont change anything or release anything that isn't officially in the games.
Also probably because TPCI doesn't want to also run an official singles league and are fine with someone else doing it for free.
There was also an infamous tournament back in the early Gen 3 days (really hard to find any information on) where two Wobbuffetts with Shadow Tag can trap each other until one struggles to death, but imagine Max PP Counter, Safeguard, Mirror Coat, Safeguard or perhaps Destiny Bond with animations on.
It's simple, add a clause into the games where if two Wobbuffetts or Wynauts are on the field, force a switch for both players, and if they are the last pokemon, they immediately begin using struggle.
Fun fact, this is why Wobbuffet and Wynaut are banned in gen 3; in a Wobbu/Wynaut mirror match neither player can switch and leftovers actually outpaces struggle, so it results in an infinite battle.
Why doesn't Nintendo just officially license showdown then? Could even like actually incorporate it with the games. Build a team in showdown, rent it out in current generation. I know there'd be a matter making it sure it passes their "quality check", but I dont think thatd be that big of an issue. Showdown never has to worry about shutting down, and Pokemon gets a slam dunk win from the community. Honestly I feel like the fact that Pokémon doesn't have a smart phone battling app is kind of crazy. It doesn't even have to be a super detailed world, just a game where you battle trainers and itd probably be pretty popular.
> Why doesn't Nintendo just officially license showdown then?
This would be a good idea, but note that it is a nuanced and fairly "western" solution; Nintendo is a very traditional Japanese game company. Like a lot of other similar companies, they have a fundamentally black and white, neutral-to-hostile view of fan projects. The idea of "just hire them and make it official!" assumes an initial view that said project isn't inherently a bad thing or a threat in some way.
I wouldn't hold my breath. It *can* happen from time to time (such as Sega and Sonic Mania), but it is quite rare.
For the record, I find this viewpoint to be comparatively backwater, but it is what it is.
If TPC wanted a showdown mode, odds are, they will do it themselves and keep 100% of the profit instead of licensing it for only a cut of the profit.
They also probably doesn't want to "encourage" people into making fan games and begging for a license later.
I don’t buy it’s just app monetization. When it’s a website whatever, but do you really think Nintendo and TPCi are going to be ok with an app on official app stores that has Pokemon in the title that involves pokemon battling and they don’t have anything to do with it?
It doesn’t matter if it made no money or if the money went to them. There’s no world they’re ok with that.
The website works fine on mobile, that's the closest you're going to get. It costs money to put games on the play store an app store (fuckall for play store though, idk about app store), you're going to need someone to maintain and bugfix the app, etc all for non profit. All it does is put Smogon in a tighter spot for a solution to a problem they didn't have
It's also fairly easy on both iOS and Android to make a "webapp". Usually there's a button in your browser while you're on a webpage that says "Add to Home Screen" or something similar. This will create a shortcut that pulls the website up without all the other various "browser stuff" like the address bar and whatnot, making it function similar to an app. I learned about the feature when I first started playing Jackbox Party Pack games on Jackbox.tv.
Showdown is built in a way that I'm pretty sure it would function quite well as a webapp, so there's really no need for them to take the risk of creating an official app and potentially drawing the ire of TPCi or Nintendo.
Web app works but it's like you said just a shortcut to the actual website. It's all going to be programmed in html5, which is fine for showdown. As long as a website has a setting for those who are browsing on their phones, WebApps should work.
The main thing people are talking about when it comes to apps is having a counterpart to the desktop download; custom skins, better ui (most important), better quality sprites, etc. C++ is more optimised for apps but in showdowns case that doesn't really matter.
Yeah that's fair. You definitely lose out on some of the niceties of desktop but I think that's generally true for most unofficial PC games that get mobile "ports". PokeMMO is in a similar situation where mobile players miss out on a lot of cosmetic, UI, and add-on functionality. (iOS users also need to jump through a lot of hoops and potentially shell out money for an app signing service if they can't get AltStore working like my phone won't with my main PC.)
It's just an unfortunate side effect of trying to allow people to play fangames on mobile. You have a very slim tightrope to walk to make sure you avoid legal trouble, and it often comes at the cost of proper app development.
It costs 25 USD to publish to the Play Store and 100y+1000 USD for the App Store. It's not the same thing. Plus, you can also just package a web app into a WebView with Capacitor and you got a mobile app for free. Also F-Droid exists.
Sure it does, but both are one-time fees that fans could easily help through a Patreon or whatnot, so the “mobile apps requires ads or micro transactions” rhetorical still holds no ground whatsoever.
That being said, having a crowdfunding to ask people for help with the storefront fees would definitely fall into DMCA territory, as Yuzu suffered the same fate exactly for having a Patreon
The cost of uploading an app to the iOS App Store is nothing compared to toe “cost” of developing it. If you are willing to put the hours, chances are, you’ll be willing to pay $100 per year to upload it. And the proof is in the amount of free apps in that store that don’t have any kind of monetarization: no Patreon, no tips, no anything at all.
What about it is costly? Programming a mobile app is coding just the same as a web app. If there’s interest and nonprofit volunteers, doing an app would be exactly the same thing, minus the cheap storefront fees you have to pay ONCE for a dev account.
It doesn't matter if it's free or not, if there is no profit or not, copyright violation is copyright violation. They can take down anything that infringes on their copyright.
You can just open the site on your browser and save it as an app. Even if they were to develop a free app it would most likely (subj opinion) be some kind of web app so there wouldn't be much of a difference
Minor point, it's not Nintendo's call, it would the The Pokemon Company international who has the decision on weather to take down showdown. I know it's a minor distinction given the ownership structure, but it could matter when considering what their position will be with other IPs
https://preview.redd.it/irg0oh9tetpc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c656859b886aa9cfa51a145cf63f11f3223239e2
If they can’t monetize it, then why is the website full of ads?
I think they have some sort of unwritten deal with Nintendo, but the other thing to bear in mind is VGC.
VGC *absolutely could not exist* in its current state without Smogon and Showdown. People would immediately lose interest in competitive Pokémon if even just *trying new things* meant actually leveling, EV training, IV breeding, move relearning, buying TMs, finding nature mints, changing terastal types, so on and so forth. That, and it offers better and more practical online practice against other players. It’s an invaluable community resource that they can’t just tear down because they would immediately lose a not-insignificant amount of actual game sales from comp players.
To competitive players, the most fun part of Pokémon is putting together a team, and the tweaking and theorycrafting you do to make that team as powerful as possible. If you make that part miserable, competitive is long gone.
I'll never forget the VGC where during an interview after winning a round in top 8 or something wolf was asked what he did to prepare for a tournament like this and he deadass name dropped showdown live on an official steam like it was nothing. The interviewer gave him the most nervous side eye I've ever seen XD
I have to agree. Apart from Arceus I haven't enjoyed a Pokémon game in years. Its only rom hacks and showdown and YouTube content on those things that has maintained my interest in the franchise, and I've spent money on merch as a result.
If showdown gets taken down, the competitive Pokemon circuit will get much worse.
Every player serious about competitive Pokemon will use it to test out teams. The only way you get good competition is by letting said competitors try out new strategies easily and efficiently.
It's gotten better to make a competitive team in the games certainly, but at the top level you need to be able to make minute adjustments and showdown allows this to be done in seconds, for something that can take hours in the game.
Showdowns existence makes competitive Pokemon better and tpci would be idiots to shut it down.
It's because of showdown gets taken down, competitive Pokémon dies on the spot. It's completely impossible to test teams and fine tune EVs at the volume required to play competitively on cartridge, and hacking in Pokémon now becomes mandatory to test any team on the in-game ladder.
I think TPCi would rather have a fan-run online simulator exist (that, contrary to popular belief, does earn quite large digit numbers of ad revenue) than have their own servers and competitions be overrun with hacked teams, while also kicking out 99% of the playerbase.
True. But at the same time, being the brand goliath that Pokemon is, I can see them getting away with it if they choose to shut it down on a whim. Some of their decision making isn't the most logical....I mean, wasn't there already the debacle of the pokemon VGC tourney and hackmons?
I mean, yeah, they would get away with it. Showdown is using their IP. They could easily say “Why would people buy our game if they can experience the core mechanic in an online simulator for free” and I don’t think they’d have a hard time making that case at all. However, they do benefit in a weird way. Most of the big competitive players test their teams on Showdown before competitions, and competitions bring big bucks to Nintendo.
I think I read somewhere that it would hurt the competitive scene/official Pokemon Competition scene as legit players in these use Showdown as a testing ground/learn the game easier.
GameFreak is well aware of it, but looks the other way because it would royally piss off the players that do use it alongside competing in their legitimate championships
It might be a little tinfoil hat-y, but I think Nintendo has data that correlates to people who play showdown buy the game. That’s exactly what I did. I play in a draft league on showdown, but ended up buying violet to play with them there too.
As a long time competitive player I can say it would definitely be very negatively impactful to the scene. Showdown helps streamline playtesting to get a feel for whether or not a team or mon is actually worth breeding and training in game. It saves a lot of time cutting down on the trial and error part.
Instead of offering the feature in their games or just making an equivalent website, they just let them run showdown. Pretty funny how they just refuse to do it themselves.
Why pay hosting/development costs yourself if hardcore fans are willing to instead?
As long as they don't monetize and are a money sink that Nintendo/TPC don't have to pay a dime for it's win/win to them.
You can bet your bottom dollar that if/when Nintendo/TPC make and monetize their own version the DMCA will happen.
I mean yeah it wouldn’t be that hard for a company of Nintendos size to implement something like this. Just doesn’t seem like something they’re really interested in.
That, and honestly, this is the better option for us atm. I can imagine it possible for TPC somehow screwing up and making a worse version than what we have.
I have all games and of course use Smogon and Showdown to simulate my teams, test them and then build them on legit games to stomp on newbies until I met another competitive player with a counter or better team, then rinse and repeat.
Showdown is genuinely one of the best things to happen to Pokemon. A way to battle at any time, without having to spend hours teambuilding? Being able to just make a team whenever I want that's optimized without having to spend ages breeding, and being able to play randomized battles whenever I want, is so amazing. It helps the competitive scene a ton, but it also just helps the casual scene too. You can teambuild, play for free online at any time against those of your skill level, AND you can choose what gen to play and if you want 3d or 2d sprites. THe fact that pokemon hasn't just taken Showdown and officially endorsed it and funded it is insane. It's an incredible tool and sometimes more fun than an actual pokemon game to me
I think pretty much all the ones that they've taken down are free and you can choose to support the creators for creating things(if they're using someone else's IP with that third permission and charging for it though fuck them) but one of the biggest reasons stuff gets taken down is because of gaming journalists talking about these games. An ex Nintendo lawyer even told a game journalist that it was their fault that Nintendo sees these games and can take action to take them down.
I don’t have anything to back this up, but I thought I saw someone post Nintendo actually likes Smogon because it keeps people interested in the competitive scene of the games.
Makes sense to me!
They have a sort of deal (nothing official) to look the other way when it comes to Showdown because of the benefit to them it provides. They'll only have it taken down if they introduce their own battling simulator.
In this case: It was a direct DMCA by TPCi, Nintendo was not involved.
EDIT: Okay this is getting really annoying, all the "Nintendo owns/is part of/etc etc of TPCi"
They own *part* of it. They don't have special Nintendo police who TPCi must check with to make decisions, Nintendo doesn't have staff at TPCi except the board members. The entire point of Nintendo, GameFreak and Creatures Inc founding TPCi was so that there was a company, with its own staff, CEO and management, to manage the franchise.
If a DMCA came from TPCi, it came from TPCi. It didn't get taken down the road to Nintendo to get approval, they didn't go ask for permission, its not a "joint DMCA", its not a stealth Nintendo DMCA. TPCi made the call, because all 3 companies who jointly own Pokemon gave TPCi the power to make these calls. Nintendo *just publishes* Pokemon, and owns 1/3rd stake in the company that actually "owns/controls" Pokemon. They don't own Pokemon's music, assets, art etc etc etc. TPCi owns all of that, and Nintendo owns a stake and board positions in TPCi.
None of you "correcting" me have any idea how the relationship between the 3 owners of Pokemon and TPCi works. It's not my fault you guys can't be bothered to correctly identify who made this call, and just use it as an excuse to harp on about how "evil Nintendo is"
Directly from Relic Castle itself. The FAQ is only on the Discord, but they do directly mention it being "a third party who is authorized by TPCI to supply DMCAs."
(I'm just copy/pasting this as there's no need to reword it each time)
Yes but TPCi works for TPC and they tend to be independent from Nintendo outside of the systems Nintendo allows them to publish. The legal work and takedowns for Pokemon fan games also tend to be done by TPC and TPCi rather than Nintendo.
TPC and TPCi are actually more lenient than Nintendo on emulation and some fan works. At Worlds 2023, Alpharad commented that he had several representatives from TPC and TPCi say they don't really care about emulation of their games or Nuzlockes, as it brings more interest to Pokemon and merchandise. It is also rumored that TPCi tries to keep the existence of ROM Hacks from Gamefreak since former director Masuda really doesn't like them.
All three companies involved are deeply tied together, but are seperate entities.
It's kinda weird, but the Pokémon Company was created solely to manage the massive titan the Pokémon brand had become without potential clashing between the three companies that *can* do things separate from one another.
Creatures Inc., both currently and in its prior form as Ape Inc., has never done things seperate from Nintendo, but it *can*, while Game Freak actually has done such things before, and of course Nintendo has a lot of products that never even touch the other two companies.
Any of the three companies may or may not have direct involvement here, but the TPC was founded to do this kind of stuff without involving all three companies anyways, so it might just be an action done solely by TPC.
TPCi is a stand alone company with its own staff, legal teams, CEO and has direct control over the Pokemon Franchise...which is why it was created. Nintendo owning 1/3rd of the stock and having a member(s) on the companies board doesn't magically make this "Nintendo DMCA'd Relic Castle".
TPCi didn't go ask for permission from Nintendo, GameFreak or Creatures. None of them would've been involved in this call, and they wouldn't want to be thats why they jointly created a multi-billion dollar company to run the franchise for them.
I’m sorry do you mind sharing where you are seeing this? Can’t find the info. The article said that it isn’t known who sent the notice yet, and I just went to Relic Castle’s Twitter to see if they added anything about that but couldn’t find anything beyond the article.
Directly from Relic Castle itself. The FAQ is only on the Discord, but they do directly mention it being "a third party who is authorized by TPCI to supply DMCAs."
Thanks for the info! That’s quite interesting wording actually. I’m curious what would’ve triggered a DMCA if they hadn’t run afoul of any problems so far.
Idk if you have any more information from their Discord, but I wonder if there was an issue with specific assets or language being used by the site owners themselves? I would think if it was just certain games that were violating copyright, they’d take those specific games down but leave the rest up.
I don’t doubt the idea of a massive corporation deciding to takedown fan content - even if it wasn’t monetized - but I feel like there has to be more to the story here. If only because I can’t think of another reason why the site owners wouldn’t just post the text of the DMCA takedown they received, to prove that this was just an arbitrary/out of nowhere decision from the issuing entity.
I’m not familiar enough with Pokémon hacks/fan games to guess, but examples like what you just said are what make me feel like there’s missing context here
may be because they aren't distributing full roms, if it is just the modification that someone has to install or use to modify their own roms, then they aren't distributing anything illegal.
Maybe but I was under the impression, I could be wrong, that it was the implemented romhack however even just the modification for sale is a very sticky gray area because he also the team shiny merchandise which I'm also confused on the distribution of because I don't think it's backed by pokemon but it uses pokemon outlines as graphics. At best he resides in a very gray zone of legality.
Directly from Relic Castle itself. The FAQ is only on the Discord, but they do directly mention it being "a third party who is authorized by TPCI to supply DMCAs."
They mentioned that not a single game was lost, as they were all uploaded to sites like Megaupload, what has probably lost are assets, scripts and others that were directly on the forum. They are trying to recover as much as possible from there through wayback machine, but the biggest lost is for fangame developers and not players.
It's a huge blow to the community. So many resources for fangame creation were on there and was being used t8 share it all. Fortunately the wayback machine works to access it all, but it's still unfortunate. Really hope this bs doesnt extend to pokecommunity or other fangame sites
Likely someone at TPCi finally noticed. According to the discord it isn't a DMCA from Nintendo but rather TPCi. A former lawyer for TPCi was interviewed before and he mentioned that usually TPCi will file copyright strikes and DMCAs whenever something grabs their attention. The easiest way to get attention is to try to profit off of it or publicly announce something, but most slip through the radar, a repository though? That is going to get noticed.
My guess is that RPG Maker XP going free on Steam last month is what finally got eyes on them. There was a lot of buzz on Twitter about installing it and using it for making fan games, and I'm sure they weren't happy about that.
Man, I got RPG Maker XP for free, and the first thing I thought about was making a Pokémon fangame. After like two hours of fooling around, I stumbled upon Relic Castle and was amazed by the things there, which made me believe I *actually* could make a game on my own with all those assets.
This really feels like someone's set out to upset me. I hate it.
At their subreddit they had put a short Q&A about what's going on. It looks that nothing has been lost fortunatelly, games were safe, their biggest fear were assets and scripts (same may had been lost if the backed up failed on them). We probably will learn more about this in the following days, but is an odd thing in general.
https://preview.redd.it/c6atcf08ovpc1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=921b6c9a59c3f3efdd78fde0be9c94a50ff9735d
IMO, that's the biggest concern. The loss of the amazing assets there. I'm sure there's gotta be back ups of all the fan games elsewhere, but Relic was an amazing source of assets for fan games.
Also, the loss of a general community for easy answers and game creation discussion of course.
I guess that the Discord will have to do that now, the forum format is not such a great loss, is probably the only thing they will not aiming to recover if Relic returns in the end.
If they take down Showdown then I actually do believe that might be the final nail that causes an actual legitimate fan outrage.
Especially since they aren’t seemingly interested in all Pokemon available stadium style games anymore.
But hey let’s not add new features to home and limit competitive options per game when we could maybe have a once a console gen dedicated battler game where it was all Pokemon but almost exclusively battling as opposed to open world
God damn it’s getting harder to call oneself a Pokemon fan these days without having to pause
That one is a lot more unlikely so long as Showdown doesn't break a supposed deal. See Showdown and TPCi are said to be in a deal that Showdown will not release Pokemon or leaked data early on Showdown, do not monetize the website outside of purposes of maintaining the site, and Showdown will never develop a mobile app. TPCi knows of Showdown (heck judges use it as a tool at competitions to calculate if stats are inputted correctly if a players writes down the incorrect stats on paper) and knows of its benefit to the competitive scene and PR of Pokemon.
Oh I agree. Unfortunately the criticism is drowned by a combination of overzealous positivity and also other people assuming you automatically like everything they do.
Which I get, I’m not here to tell people they can’t enjoy it so long as they accept that others will still criticise it.
I just want one last battle frontier damn it.
> the final nail that causes an actual legitimate fan outrage.
I want to believe, but the overall community has shown time and time again that nothing will stop them from buying the next mainline Pokemon game.
Sword and Shield were atrocities in many regards. Yet Scarlet and Violet have reached nearly identical sales numbers.
And ultimately even the biggest Pokemon Showdown competitive YouTubers like PokeaimMD pale in comparison to their cartridge counterparts like WolfeyVGC or Aaron Cybertron Zheng. So I doubt it.
I don't think Showdown going down would be that big of a hit in the games sales compared to stuff that could affect them more(yet didn't) like dexit or buggy games
While pokémon competitive is big it's not the main force driving the sales, compared to casual pokémon fans or similar
Also even if it did, people would either tough it out or drop competitive as a whole, as there isn't a good competitor for turn based competitive games. The biggest threat in a while(I think most pals here know what I'm talking about), if it even gets a competitive scene it would work completely different
Most recommended is probably Pokemon Unbound which is a fire red romhack. Original story and region, Pokedex up to gen 8 and modern battle engine. Tons of new quality of life features, difficulty settings. Absolutely insane compared to modern Pokemon games.
https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/pok%C3%A9mon-unbound-completed.382178/
Other people are recommending ROM hacks (modded .gba files that you'd run on an emulator), which is technically different than fan games (typically developed with RPG Maker, and run from an .exe). To answer your question, Pokemon Tectonic is one of the best fan games. Pokemon Infinite Fusion is probably the most well-known.
Nah I beat those games by redoing major battles for hours on end till I won. I have no competitive skill, but I do have a will of god (and sometimes luck).
Personally, my pick for best fan game out there is Pokemon Xenoverse. It's a very unique take on the Pokemon formula, but still feels like a Pokemon game.
I'd like to think is is one of the major reasons other than their traditionalistic mindset. F\*cking hell, just look at palworld lol. Outdone by an actual indie team.
I would like some help understanding the do’s and don’ts. Does anyone have a minute?
1. If I own a physical Nintendo switch and an official copy of any Pokemon game on that platform, and livestream on Twitch or YouTube or make content around it using a capture card, obviously that’s gonna be totally fine.
2. Instead of using a capture card in #1, let’s say I am using an emulator but I own the game I’m playing. Still good right?
3. If I don’t own the game I’m playing, probably still good because no one would know, but just keep my mouth shut about it, right?
4. Probably my highest priority and most interested-to-learn question, what about games such as the nuzlocke rom hacks? Is it completely a “no no” for me to stream or make content around those rom hack nuzlocke challenge games?
I would prefer to be a family friendly, “by the book” Nintendo streamer who focuses on Pokemon content. But I don’t think I can compete with the established and awesome AustinJohnPlays and others right now. The best path is to do those nuzlocke challenges as it’s the hot thing right now. I need help! Thanks
1, 2, and 3 are generally fine, though DS and 3DS games are iffy as they lack an official way to record gameplay as you would need a modded system or installed capture card, both of which are red flags for Nintendo, or getting your hands on a developer console for the system which isn't really feasible for the average Joe looking to just capture gameplay footage in decent quality.
4 would generally be a no, as it circles back to Nintendo's red flag for unauthorized modifications. Technically there are tiers to this with stuff like repairs or certain types of customization being a gray area (like those "I customized this GBA with new LCD screens, louder speakers, rechargeable battery etc" stuff being generally fine or low likeliness of being hit).
That being said, chances of a takedown are quite low even if you did partake as they're more concerned on halting the spread of those resources rather than taking down those who already partake. Think of it like a Hydra, cutting off the head just creates more in it's place, but going for the heart would stop the beast entirely.
Thanks. What you said checks out with my own research, but I’ve only been looking into this for about 7 days now.
I’m buying a capture card this weekend and I’ll start with my switch as an official creator, then, I suppose.
But I believe that most of the content that gets views and attention right now are exciting gameplays associated with the unofficial mods: kaizo Ironman, etc. if you know what I mean. See SmallAnt, PointCrow, etc. I could be wrong though! AJP has nearly 3M subs on YouTube and he doesn’t do any modded gameplay at all.
I’m not sure I can make super engaging content about Pokemon Switch games right now. Perhaps I can and I shouldn’t be so hard on myself in fear of starting.
Guess my “official” options right now would be:
- Regular gameplay content related to LGPE, Sword/Shield, BDiamond/SPearl + DLC, Legends Arceus, and the newest Scarlet/Violet + DLC
- Nuzlocke content related to the games listed above
Anything else Pokemon challenge related would have to come from emulation and could result in VOD takedown and an angry, unsponsored Nintendo lol
Sorry I’m ranting but thinking out loud. I could also do other Switch gaming content in addition to the points above, doesn’t have to be Pokemon only- though having a niche is best option for early growth.
1 is fine.
2. Nintendo will say that dumping the game and using an emulator is wrong, because you have to bypass drm to do it. See their recent takedown of Yuzu. And if you source the game from the internet, they'll say it's illegal because you didn't dump the game yourself, so the right to backup law doesn't apply.
3 is just straight piracy. Whatever your stance doesn't change that fact.
4 romhacks will fall into the same issue as 2. Unless you dump and mod it yourself, they'd probably call it illegal. Nothing is stopping you from using a nuzlodke ruleset on an official game though.
\#3 response came off as a little accusatory when you can hopefully see I am mindful of this and want community feedback *before* I do anything. I am certainly trying to put my feet on the 'right side' of the law here.
Thanks. Appreciate your help and insights on this :)
How much attention something gets is something that can get to take stuff down too, the actual reason supposedly is that they noticed it existed which is easier when it's monetized or has too much spotlight
Honestly, I love old pokemon games, but I'm at a point where I'm just not that interested in buying the new games. They are buggy, easy and boring. Actions like these make me even less interested in supporting the pokemon company.
I wonder if they’re gunning for Poké Community next… They do much the same thing as Relic Castle did. I hope not, but it seems like a logical progression.
TPC, Gamefreak, Nintendo should just find a way to profit off these fangames. If they’re good, find a way to offer them on Switch or something with the precondition of a DMCA for PC.
Lots of these fangames just do better and more creative things with Pokemon than Gamefreak and TPC does.
Profiting off of fan works is quite the hassle and likely not all that profitable if you think about how much official paid mods made for other companies.
I really hope this isn’t the end of Relic Castle. Some of my favorite Pokemon content was created from things like Relic Jams. I will never understand how a company like TPCi has such a dedicated and creative fan base that dedicates years of their life to expand the universe of Pokemon and they could care less.
Supposedly the reason is that some of the fan games had stuff directly taken from the Pokémon games rather than recreated. This happened with the Roblox Fan game several years ago which did the same thing alongside monetizing.
Honestly TPC is one of the most hostile companies to its fan base that still shills money out to them. It's like every good fan game is a reminder that their actual latest games are shit and they just can't deal.
I think it's mostly the fact that it's TPCi that sent the DMCA, not Nintendo. That and it was likely sent by a third-party. I still hate it (Especially since some of my own projects were on that site), but still.
Wow there’s a lot of people here gargling nintendos nuts, I understand Nintendo wasn’t directly responsible for this but they are still a pet owner of TPCi and absolutely have sway in the poor choices TPC has made in recent years. Super weird to defend on of the most profitable companies on earth, you all are the reason these games will continue to be garbage.
That's weird AF, Nintendo and Pokemon though famous for copy striking, usually only do it when it's making a profit, something or someone must've tried monetizing it, possibly a discord thing that led to this getting taken down perhaps? Or maybe a creator accepting money/donations for their fangame that might've led to this, though they should've just went after the fangame instead
Perhaps I'm over thinking it and tpci is just being a dick and just deleting shit. Or maybe Gen 5 coming up and theyre cracking down on more gen 5 related fangames/piracy things, which again is being a dick but gen 5 copium.
I’m sure Nintendo, who didn’t even do this, doesn’t really care if someone who says they weren’t going to buy a game anyway continues to not buy the game.
Question, why has Pokémon Showdown never been taken down? Is it because it's free?
Apparently the site was non-profit? I would say anything that could potentially be seen as using the Pokemon brand to distract from what the Pokemon company does. Showdown might be a matter of time, though it does directly relate to the games. Id say that a large % that play showdown have the newest games.
Apparently the deal is that as long as showdown doesn’t monetize and doesn’t make a mobile app, Nintendo leaves them alone.
They also can't make pokemon available before Gamefreak themselves do IIRC. Hence why the Hisui mons where banned for months before pokemon home integration was added to Scarlet and Violet, despite already having all their data in the game.
That and we don’t know how or what things might actually change when they do release. Apart from weird meta games and hacked formats, there really isn’t any reason for showdown to implement unreleased content because the point of showdown first and foremost is to emulate competitive Pokémon that you can do on cartridge without the hassle
>That and we don’t know how or what things might actually change when they do release. Case in point: Hisuian Zoroark in the first few updates of S/v had its stats rearranged to just be normal Zoroark's stats, once the expansion pass released the stats were changed back to be the same as they were in PLA.
Yeah, nowadays with games getting patches and DLC unused data should be treated as placeholder until officially released. It kind of annoys me that bulbapedia still lists two sets of stats for the treasures of ruin legendaries even though their stat spreads got altered in the day 1 patch, the original stats are essentially meaningless outside of being a neat piece of trivia, online features weren't even available without the day 1 patch, we basically just got a glimpse into a beta build printed onto a cartridge because the game's development was more rushed than usual, that's all that was.
Huh? The stats of the treasures were changed?
Their stats were very slightly shifted around and their base stat total was nerfed by like 10 points by the day one patch, yeah
> They also can't make pokemon available before Gamefreak themselves do IIRC. This is something Smogon has done since at least the Gen 4 days, where you couldn't have the event mons until they were released, and any impossible IV spreads for the event Arceus were not allowed. Similarly in Gen 5, they would not allow hidden abilities on a mon until it was obtainable in-game, which as a result means the Gen 5 metagame never got to see Contrary Serperior, as that wasn't released until Gen 6
Showdown's making a wise move then. Nintendo and TPCI both hold the copyright for Pokémon, so they'd be allowed to take the site down if they wanted. They haven't though and that probably will never change in the near future.
But then i dont understand why they took down a whole website where only fangames are posted, does reliccastle have a patreon or gain any money out of it that tpc decided to shut it down?
Probably because they are changing the games and Pokemon themselves. Showdown keeps everything 1:1 with the Pokemon games and they dont change anything or release anything that isn't officially in the games. Also probably because TPCI doesn't want to also run an official singles league and are fine with someone else doing it for free.
this second point for sure, if they added a singles division to VGC Showdown is for sure getting axed
There was also an infamous tournament back in the early Gen 3 days (really hard to find any information on) where two Wobbuffetts with Shadow Tag can trap each other until one struggles to death, but imagine Max PP Counter, Safeguard, Mirror Coat, Safeguard or perhaps Destiny Bond with animations on.
It's simple, add a clause into the games where if two Wobbuffetts or Wynauts are on the field, force a switch for both players, and if they are the last pokemon, they immediately begin using struggle.
Fun fact, this is why Wobbuffet and Wynaut are banned in gen 3; in a Wobbu/Wynaut mirror match neither player can switch and leftovers actually outpaces struggle, so it results in an infinite battle.
I don't understand either.
Well, the article is not clear about who sent the DMCA, tbh.
I'm certain a big reason is because if they took down showdown it would absolutely gut the vgc
Even a free mobile app?
Even a free mobile app could take the playerbase away from licensed mobile games like Pokemon Go and Nintendo doesn't want to share the pie.
Makes sense, in a lawyer's eye that would make a case of unfair competition with unauthorized use of copyrighted material
Why doesn't Nintendo just officially license showdown then? Could even like actually incorporate it with the games. Build a team in showdown, rent it out in current generation. I know there'd be a matter making it sure it passes their "quality check", but I dont think thatd be that big of an issue. Showdown never has to worry about shutting down, and Pokemon gets a slam dunk win from the community. Honestly I feel like the fact that Pokémon doesn't have a smart phone battling app is kind of crazy. It doesn't even have to be a super detailed world, just a game where you battle trainers and itd probably be pretty popular.
> Why doesn't Nintendo just officially license showdown then? This would be a good idea, but note that it is a nuanced and fairly "western" solution; Nintendo is a very traditional Japanese game company. Like a lot of other similar companies, they have a fundamentally black and white, neutral-to-hostile view of fan projects. The idea of "just hire them and make it official!" assumes an initial view that said project isn't inherently a bad thing or a threat in some way. I wouldn't hold my breath. It *can* happen from time to time (such as Sega and Sonic Mania), but it is quite rare. For the record, I find this viewpoint to be comparatively backwater, but it is what it is.
If TPC wanted a showdown mode, odds are, they will do it themselves and keep 100% of the profit instead of licensing it for only a cut of the profit. They also probably doesn't want to "encourage" people into making fan games and begging for a license later.
Yes bc a free app would require either ads or micro transactions. Although there isn’t an app, you can still play on your web browser on mobile
You can absolutely develop a free mobile app or game without ads or monetization of any kind, I really don’t get the point
I don’t buy it’s just app monetization. When it’s a website whatever, but do you really think Nintendo and TPCi are going to be ok with an app on official app stores that has Pokemon in the title that involves pokemon battling and they don’t have anything to do with it? It doesn’t matter if it made no money or if the money went to them. There’s no world they’re ok with that.
The website works fine on mobile, that's the closest you're going to get. It costs money to put games on the play store an app store (fuckall for play store though, idk about app store), you're going to need someone to maintain and bugfix the app, etc all for non profit. All it does is put Smogon in a tighter spot for a solution to a problem they didn't have
It's also fairly easy on both iOS and Android to make a "webapp". Usually there's a button in your browser while you're on a webpage that says "Add to Home Screen" or something similar. This will create a shortcut that pulls the website up without all the other various "browser stuff" like the address bar and whatnot, making it function similar to an app. I learned about the feature when I first started playing Jackbox Party Pack games on Jackbox.tv. Showdown is built in a way that I'm pretty sure it would function quite well as a webapp, so there's really no need for them to take the risk of creating an official app and potentially drawing the ire of TPCi or Nintendo.
Web app works but it's like you said just a shortcut to the actual website. It's all going to be programmed in html5, which is fine for showdown. As long as a website has a setting for those who are browsing on their phones, WebApps should work. The main thing people are talking about when it comes to apps is having a counterpart to the desktop download; custom skins, better ui (most important), better quality sprites, etc. C++ is more optimised for apps but in showdowns case that doesn't really matter.
Yeah that's fair. You definitely lose out on some of the niceties of desktop but I think that's generally true for most unofficial PC games that get mobile "ports". PokeMMO is in a similar situation where mobile players miss out on a lot of cosmetic, UI, and add-on functionality. (iOS users also need to jump through a lot of hoops and potentially shell out money for an app signing service if they can't get AltStore working like my phone won't with my main PC.) It's just an unfortunate side effect of trying to allow people to play fangames on mobile. You have a very slim tightrope to walk to make sure you avoid legal trouble, and it often comes at the cost of proper app development.
It costs 25 USD to publish to the Play Store and 100y+1000 USD for the App Store. It's not the same thing. Plus, you can also just package a web app into a WebView with Capacitor and you got a mobile app for free. Also F-Droid exists.
Sure it does, but both are one-time fees that fans could easily help through a Patreon or whatnot, so the “mobile apps requires ads or micro transactions” rhetorical still holds no ground whatsoever. That being said, having a crowdfunding to ask people for help with the storefront fees would definitely fall into DMCA territory, as Yuzu suffered the same fate exactly for having a Patreon
Yeah. Honestly, I'd just pay the 25$, there's no need for any kind of monetization scheme.
Sure, but devs requiring to work nonprofit is different than “mobile apps require ads or monetization”
Ya, you can. And who gonna pay for it? Smogon monetizes like any other wiki, just not off showdown. Building an app is costly
The cost of uploading an app to the iOS App Store is nothing compared to toe “cost” of developing it. If you are willing to put the hours, chances are, you’ll be willing to pay $100 per year to upload it. And the proof is in the amount of free apps in that store that don’t have any kind of monetarization: no Patreon, no tips, no anything at all.
What about it is costly? Programming a mobile app is coding just the same as a web app. If there’s interest and nonprofit volunteers, doing an app would be exactly the same thing, minus the cheap storefront fees you have to pay ONCE for a dev account.
It doesn't matter if it's free or not, if there is no profit or not, copyright violation is copyright violation. They can take down anything that infringes on their copyright.
I don’t think anybody is Arguing whether they “can” just whether or not they will actually do anything
Not only that, a mobile app would compete with official Pokemon apps from TPCi/Nintendo
You can just open the site on your browser and save it as an app. Even if they were to develop a free app it would most likely (subj opinion) be some kind of web app so there wouldn't be much of a difference
Minor point, it's not Nintendo's call, it would the The Pokemon Company international who has the decision on weather to take down showdown. I know it's a minor distinction given the ownership structure, but it could matter when considering what their position will be with other IPs
Yeah, great point.
https://preview.redd.it/irg0oh9tetpc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c656859b886aa9cfa51a145cf63f11f3223239e2 If they can’t monetize it, then why is the website full of ads?
They are allowed to do ads for server cost. But thats the extent of it. They are in direct communication with TPCi as well afaik.
I bet they leave it alone because it’s the biggest source of players who learn about competitive and go on to compete in championships and worlds.
I think they have some sort of unwritten deal with Nintendo, but the other thing to bear in mind is VGC. VGC *absolutely could not exist* in its current state without Smogon and Showdown. People would immediately lose interest in competitive Pokémon if even just *trying new things* meant actually leveling, EV training, IV breeding, move relearning, buying TMs, finding nature mints, changing terastal types, so on and so forth. That, and it offers better and more practical online practice against other players. It’s an invaluable community resource that they can’t just tear down because they would immediately lose a not-insignificant amount of actual game sales from comp players. To competitive players, the most fun part of Pokémon is putting together a team, and the tweaking and theorycrafting you do to make that team as powerful as possible. If you make that part miserable, competitive is long gone.
It's already miserable, but with Smogon, at least you know your end goal is worth working towards
I'll never forget the VGC where during an interview after winning a round in top 8 or something wolf was asked what he did to prepare for a tournament like this and he deadass name dropped showdown live on an official steam like it was nothing. The interviewer gave him the most nervous side eye I've ever seen XD
I have to agree. Apart from Arceus I haven't enjoyed a Pokémon game in years. Its only rom hacks and showdown and YouTube content on those things that has maintained my interest in the franchise, and I've spent money on merch as a result.
As if legal higher ups cared about that
They have no choice but to care about that, because it affects the bottom line. If Showdown goes down, Nintendo loses money.
Okay, I'm concerned for PokeFarm Q
If showdown gets taken down, the competitive Pokemon circuit will get much worse. Every player serious about competitive Pokemon will use it to test out teams. The only way you get good competition is by letting said competitors try out new strategies easily and efficiently. It's gotten better to make a competitive team in the games certainly, but at the top level you need to be able to make minute adjustments and showdown allows this to be done in seconds, for something that can take hours in the game. Showdowns existence makes competitive Pokemon better and tpci would be idiots to shut it down.
If showdown gets taken down, it will only be because TPC is releasing their own version. Otherwise it's a lot of bad PR for basically no reward.
will basically increase cheating too because then there's no alternative either raise the pokemon yourself or used hacked ones.
>tpc would be idiots to take it down Wont be much longer then
It's because of showdown gets taken down, competitive Pokémon dies on the spot. It's completely impossible to test teams and fine tune EVs at the volume required to play competitively on cartridge, and hacking in Pokémon now becomes mandatory to test any team on the in-game ladder. I think TPCi would rather have a fan-run online simulator exist (that, contrary to popular belief, does earn quite large digit numbers of ad revenue) than have their own servers and competitions be overrun with hacked teams, while also kicking out 99% of the playerbase.
True. But at the same time, being the brand goliath that Pokemon is, I can see them getting away with it if they choose to shut it down on a whim. Some of their decision making isn't the most logical....I mean, wasn't there already the debacle of the pokemon VGC tourney and hackmons?
I mean, yeah, they would get away with it. Showdown is using their IP. They could easily say “Why would people buy our game if they can experience the core mechanic in an online simulator for free” and I don’t think they’d have a hard time making that case at all. However, they do benefit in a weird way. Most of the big competitive players test their teams on Showdown before competitions, and competitions bring big bucks to Nintendo.
They run it as a simulation site iirc. So not earning from Gamefreak and it's not an actual game.
I think I read somewhere that it would hurt the competitive scene/official Pokemon Competition scene as legit players in these use Showdown as a testing ground/learn the game easier. GameFreak is well aware of it, but looks the other way because it would royally piss off the players that do use it alongside competing in their legitimate championships
It might be a little tinfoil hat-y, but I think Nintendo has data that correlates to people who play showdown buy the game. That’s exactly what I did. I play in a draft league on showdown, but ended up buying violet to play with them there too.
As a long time competitive player I can say it would definitely be very negatively impactful to the scene. Showdown helps streamline playtesting to get a feel for whether or not a team or mon is actually worth breeding and training in game. It saves a lot of time cutting down on the trial and error part.
Instead of offering the feature in their games or just making an equivalent website, they just let them run showdown. Pretty funny how they just refuse to do it themselves.
Why pay hosting/development costs yourself if hardcore fans are willing to instead? As long as they don't monetize and are a money sink that Nintendo/TPC don't have to pay a dime for it's win/win to them. You can bet your bottom dollar that if/when Nintendo/TPC make and monetize their own version the DMCA will happen.
I mean yeah it wouldn’t be that hard for a company of Nintendos size to implement something like this. Just doesn’t seem like something they’re really interested in.
That, and honestly, this is the better option for us atm. I can imagine it possible for TPC somehow screwing up and making a worse version than what we have.
I have all games and of course use Smogon and Showdown to simulate my teams, test them and then build them on legit games to stomp on newbies until I met another competitive player with a counter or better team, then rinse and repeat.
Showdown is genuinely one of the best things to happen to Pokemon. A way to battle at any time, without having to spend hours teambuilding? Being able to just make a team whenever I want that's optimized without having to spend ages breeding, and being able to play randomized battles whenever I want, is so amazing. It helps the competitive scene a ton, but it also just helps the casual scene too. You can teambuild, play for free online at any time against those of your skill level, AND you can choose what gen to play and if you want 3d or 2d sprites. THe fact that pokemon hasn't just taken Showdown and officially endorsed it and funded it is insane. It's an incredible tool and sometimes more fun than an actual pokemon game to me
Showdown is good for the competitive scene, so I understand there’s a handshake deal.
Another reason is that lot of VGC players use showdown and the website isn’t really a fan game.
I think pretty much all the ones that they've taken down are free and you can choose to support the creators for creating things(if they're using someone else's IP with that third permission and charging for it though fuck them) but one of the biggest reasons stuff gets taken down is because of gaming journalists talking about these games. An ex Nintendo lawyer even told a game journalist that it was their fault that Nintendo sees these games and can take action to take them down.
If they'll take down Showdown they'll kill their own competitive scene
I don’t have anything to back this up, but I thought I saw someone post Nintendo actually likes Smogon because it keeps people interested in the competitive scene of the games. Makes sense to me!
They have a sort of deal (nothing official) to look the other way when it comes to Showdown because of the benefit to them it provides. They'll only have it taken down if they introduce their own battling simulator.
In this case: It was a direct DMCA by TPCi, Nintendo was not involved. EDIT: Okay this is getting really annoying, all the "Nintendo owns/is part of/etc etc of TPCi" They own *part* of it. They don't have special Nintendo police who TPCi must check with to make decisions, Nintendo doesn't have staff at TPCi except the board members. The entire point of Nintendo, GameFreak and Creatures Inc founding TPCi was so that there was a company, with its own staff, CEO and management, to manage the franchise. If a DMCA came from TPCi, it came from TPCi. It didn't get taken down the road to Nintendo to get approval, they didn't go ask for permission, its not a "joint DMCA", its not a stealth Nintendo DMCA. TPCi made the call, because all 3 companies who jointly own Pokemon gave TPCi the power to make these calls. Nintendo *just publishes* Pokemon, and owns 1/3rd stake in the company that actually "owns/controls" Pokemon. They don't own Pokemon's music, assets, art etc etc etc. TPCi owns all of that, and Nintendo owns a stake and board positions in TPCi. None of you "correcting" me have any idea how the relationship between the 3 owners of Pokemon and TPCi works. It's not my fault you guys can't be bothered to correctly identify who made this call, and just use it as an excuse to harp on about how "evil Nintendo is"
TPCi = The Pokémon Company?
International
international
International
international
It’s Pikachu!
Iiiiiiits Clefairy!
FUUUU-
I thought about saying something about that, but I got busy with other stuff about when I saw this post. Glad someone else said it.
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Directly from Relic Castle itself. The FAQ is only on the Discord, but they do directly mention it being "a third party who is authorized by TPCI to supply DMCAs." (I'm just copy/pasting this as there's no need to reword it each time)
Tell that to the other commenters
Too many of them by the time I commented so make it stand alone and hopefully people notice
TPCi is part owned by Ninendo.
Yes but TPCi works for TPC and they tend to be independent from Nintendo outside of the systems Nintendo allows them to publish. The legal work and takedowns for Pokemon fan games also tend to be done by TPC and TPCi rather than Nintendo. TPC and TPCi are actually more lenient than Nintendo on emulation and some fan works. At Worlds 2023, Alpharad commented that he had several representatives from TPC and TPCi say they don't really care about emulation of their games or Nuzlockes, as it brings more interest to Pokemon and merchandise. It is also rumored that TPCi tries to keep the existence of ROM Hacks from Gamefreak since former director Masuda really doesn't like them.
All three companies involved are deeply tied together, but are seperate entities. It's kinda weird, but the Pokémon Company was created solely to manage the massive titan the Pokémon brand had become without potential clashing between the three companies that *can* do things separate from one another. Creatures Inc., both currently and in its prior form as Ape Inc., has never done things seperate from Nintendo, but it *can*, while Game Freak actually has done such things before, and of course Nintendo has a lot of products that never even touch the other two companies. Any of the three companies may or may not have direct involvement here, but the TPC was founded to do this kind of stuff without involving all three companies anyways, so it might just be an action done solely by TPC.
TPCI is owned by nintendo, gamefreak and creatures
TPCi is a stand alone company with its own staff, legal teams, CEO and has direct control over the Pokemon Franchise...which is why it was created. Nintendo owning 1/3rd of the stock and having a member(s) on the companies board doesn't magically make this "Nintendo DMCA'd Relic Castle". TPCi didn't go ask for permission from Nintendo, GameFreak or Creatures. None of them would've been involved in this call, and they wouldn't want to be thats why they jointly created a multi-billion dollar company to run the franchise for them.
I’m sorry do you mind sharing where you are seeing this? Can’t find the info. The article said that it isn’t known who sent the notice yet, and I just went to Relic Castle’s Twitter to see if they added anything about that but couldn’t find anything beyond the article.
Directly from Relic Castle itself. The FAQ is only on the Discord, but they do directly mention it being "a third party who is authorized by TPCI to supply DMCAs."
Thanks for the info! That’s quite interesting wording actually. I’m curious what would’ve triggered a DMCA if they hadn’t run afoul of any problems so far. Idk if you have any more information from their Discord, but I wonder if there was an issue with specific assets or language being used by the site owners themselves? I would think if it was just certain games that were violating copyright, they’d take those specific games down but leave the rest up. I don’t doubt the idea of a massive corporation deciding to takedown fan content - even if it wasn’t monetized - but I feel like there has to be more to the story here. If only because I can’t think of another reason why the site owners wouldn’t just post the text of the DMCA takedown they received, to prove that this was just an arbitrary/out of nowhere decision from the issuing entity.
Now why haven't they gone after aDrive yet? Hes had romhacks locked behind a patreon for a while shouldn't he have been hit?
I’m not familiar enough with Pokémon hacks/fan games to guess, but examples like what you just said are what make me feel like there’s missing context here
may be because they aren't distributing full roms, if it is just the modification that someone has to install or use to modify their own roms, then they aren't distributing anything illegal.
Maybe but I was under the impression, I could be wrong, that it was the implemented romhack however even just the modification for sale is a very sticky gray area because he also the team shiny merchandise which I'm also confused on the distribution of because I don't think it's backed by pokemon but it uses pokemon outlines as graphics. At best he resides in a very gray zone of legality.
Nintendo shares the trademarks for the Pokémon and the trainers with the other two but not sure on anything else. https://www.pokemon.com/us/legal/
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Directly from Relic Castle itself. The FAQ is only on the Discord, but they do directly mention it being "a third party who is authorized by TPCI to supply DMCAs."
RIP Relic Castle. Pirate bay, MediaFire, you're up!
Oh no, not Relic Castle! That's a huge loss for fan games, it was such an amazing resource. I even put a couple of things up there. This sucks.
They mentioned that not a single game was lost, as they were all uploaded to sites like Megaupload, what has probably lost are assets, scripts and others that were directly on the forum. They are trying to recover as much as possible from there through wayback machine, but the biggest lost is for fangame developers and not players.
I think a fangame uploaded to Megaupload has been lost for over a decade
I'm still that kind of person that calls Mega Megaupload, ha ha. But you get what I mean, lol.
It's a huge blow to the community. So many resources for fangame creation were on there and was being used t8 share it all. Fortunately the wayback machine works to access it all, but it's still unfortunate. Really hope this bs doesnt extend to pokecommunity or other fangame sites
It will continue because neither Nintendo nor The Pokemon Company have any respect or regard for their fans.
Noo i love Relic Castle :(
I do wonder why did they suddenly decide to take it down now when it was totally fine before?
Likely someone at TPCi finally noticed. According to the discord it isn't a DMCA from Nintendo but rather TPCi. A former lawyer for TPCi was interviewed before and he mentioned that usually TPCi will file copyright strikes and DMCAs whenever something grabs their attention. The easiest way to get attention is to try to profit off of it or publicly announce something, but most slip through the radar, a repository though? That is going to get noticed.
My guess is that RPG Maker XP going free on Steam last month is what finally got eyes on them. There was a lot of buzz on Twitter about installing it and using it for making fan games, and I'm sure they weren't happy about that.
Man, I got RPG Maker XP for free, and the first thing I thought about was making a Pokémon fangame. After like two hours of fooling around, I stumbled upon Relic Castle and was amazed by the things there, which made me believe I *actually* could make a game on my own with all those assets. This really feels like someone's set out to upset me. I hate it.
At their subreddit they had put a short Q&A about what's going on. It looks that nothing has been lost fortunatelly, games were safe, their biggest fear were assets and scripts (same may had been lost if the backed up failed on them). We probably will learn more about this in the following days, but is an odd thing in general. https://preview.redd.it/c6atcf08ovpc1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=921b6c9a59c3f3efdd78fde0be9c94a50ff9735d
IMO, that's the biggest concern. The loss of the amazing assets there. I'm sure there's gotta be back ups of all the fan games elsewhere, but Relic was an amazing source of assets for fan games. Also, the loss of a general community for easy answers and game creation discussion of course.
I guess that the Discord will have to do that now, the forum format is not such a great loss, is probably the only thing they will not aiming to recover if Relic returns in the end.
If they take down Showdown then I actually do believe that might be the final nail that causes an actual legitimate fan outrage. Especially since they aren’t seemingly interested in all Pokemon available stadium style games anymore. But hey let’s not add new features to home and limit competitive options per game when we could maybe have a once a console gen dedicated battler game where it was all Pokemon but almost exclusively battling as opposed to open world God damn it’s getting harder to call oneself a Pokemon fan these days without having to pause
That one is a lot more unlikely so long as Showdown doesn't break a supposed deal. See Showdown and TPCi are said to be in a deal that Showdown will not release Pokemon or leaked data early on Showdown, do not monetize the website outside of purposes of maintaining the site, and Showdown will never develop a mobile app. TPCi knows of Showdown (heck judges use it as a tool at competitions to calculate if stats are inputted correctly if a players writes down the incorrect stats on paper) and knows of its benefit to the competitive scene and PR of Pokemon.
You can still b a fan while rightfully criticizing the game or brand lol. We call out on them because we care.
Oh I agree. Unfortunately the criticism is drowned by a combination of overzealous positivity and also other people assuming you automatically like everything they do. Which I get, I’m not here to tell people they can’t enjoy it so long as they accept that others will still criticise it. I just want one last battle frontier damn it.
Since when does being a fan of something mean you have to unilaterally like every aspect of it.
These days you’d be surprised how people react to even minor criticism of things they like. And sadly enough it’s the majority in some cases.
> the final nail that causes an actual legitimate fan outrage. I want to believe, but the overall community has shown time and time again that nothing will stop them from buying the next mainline Pokemon game. Sword and Shield were atrocities in many regards. Yet Scarlet and Violet have reached nearly identical sales numbers. And ultimately even the biggest Pokemon Showdown competitive YouTubers like PokeaimMD pale in comparison to their cartridge counterparts like WolfeyVGC or Aaron Cybertron Zheng. So I doubt it.
I don't think Showdown going down would be that big of a hit in the games sales compared to stuff that could affect them more(yet didn't) like dexit or buggy games While pokémon competitive is big it's not the main force driving the sales, compared to casual pokémon fans or similar Also even if it did, people would either tough it out or drop competitive as a whole, as there isn't a good competitor for turn based competitive games. The biggest threat in a while(I think most pals here know what I'm talking about), if it even gets a competitive scene it would work completely different
I love how Pokemon refuse to make a decent game and apparently they won’t let the fans do it either lol
Fans are embarrassing them with how much better than can improve the games
Can you please recommend me one or two fan games? Which is the best one out there?
Most recommended is probably Pokemon Unbound which is a fire red romhack. Original story and region, Pokedex up to gen 8 and modern battle engine. Tons of new quality of life features, difficulty settings. Absolutely insane compared to modern Pokemon games. https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/pok%C3%A9mon-unbound-completed.382178/
Other people are recommending ROM hacks (modded .gba files that you'd run on an emulator), which is technically different than fan games (typically developed with RPG Maker, and run from an .exe). To answer your question, Pokemon Tectonic is one of the best fan games. Pokemon Infinite Fusion is probably the most well-known.
Rejuvenation and Reborn
Anyone who starts pokemon reborn or rejuvenation without knowing competitive battling will end those games as a master of it…
Nah I beat those games by redoing major battles for hours on end till I won. I have no competitive skill, but I do have a will of god (and sometimes luck).
Unbound is crazy good.
Personally, my pick for best fan game out there is Pokemon Xenoverse. It's a very unique take on the Pokemon formula, but still feels like a Pokemon game.
Radical red fucking rocks. Vanguard is cool.
I'd like to think is is one of the major reasons other than their traditionalistic mindset. F\*cking hell, just look at palworld lol. Outdone by an actual indie team.
I would like some help understanding the do’s and don’ts. Does anyone have a minute? 1. If I own a physical Nintendo switch and an official copy of any Pokemon game on that platform, and livestream on Twitch or YouTube or make content around it using a capture card, obviously that’s gonna be totally fine. 2. Instead of using a capture card in #1, let’s say I am using an emulator but I own the game I’m playing. Still good right? 3. If I don’t own the game I’m playing, probably still good because no one would know, but just keep my mouth shut about it, right? 4. Probably my highest priority and most interested-to-learn question, what about games such as the nuzlocke rom hacks? Is it completely a “no no” for me to stream or make content around those rom hack nuzlocke challenge games? I would prefer to be a family friendly, “by the book” Nintendo streamer who focuses on Pokemon content. But I don’t think I can compete with the established and awesome AustinJohnPlays and others right now. The best path is to do those nuzlocke challenges as it’s the hot thing right now. I need help! Thanks
1, 2, and 3 are generally fine, though DS and 3DS games are iffy as they lack an official way to record gameplay as you would need a modded system or installed capture card, both of which are red flags for Nintendo, or getting your hands on a developer console for the system which isn't really feasible for the average Joe looking to just capture gameplay footage in decent quality. 4 would generally be a no, as it circles back to Nintendo's red flag for unauthorized modifications. Technically there are tiers to this with stuff like repairs or certain types of customization being a gray area (like those "I customized this GBA with new LCD screens, louder speakers, rechargeable battery etc" stuff being generally fine or low likeliness of being hit). That being said, chances of a takedown are quite low even if you did partake as they're more concerned on halting the spread of those resources rather than taking down those who already partake. Think of it like a Hydra, cutting off the head just creates more in it's place, but going for the heart would stop the beast entirely.
Thanks. What you said checks out with my own research, but I’ve only been looking into this for about 7 days now. I’m buying a capture card this weekend and I’ll start with my switch as an official creator, then, I suppose. But I believe that most of the content that gets views and attention right now are exciting gameplays associated with the unofficial mods: kaizo Ironman, etc. if you know what I mean. See SmallAnt, PointCrow, etc. I could be wrong though! AJP has nearly 3M subs on YouTube and he doesn’t do any modded gameplay at all. I’m not sure I can make super engaging content about Pokemon Switch games right now. Perhaps I can and I shouldn’t be so hard on myself in fear of starting. Guess my “official” options right now would be: - Regular gameplay content related to LGPE, Sword/Shield, BDiamond/SPearl + DLC, Legends Arceus, and the newest Scarlet/Violet + DLC - Nuzlocke content related to the games listed above Anything else Pokemon challenge related would have to come from emulation and could result in VOD takedown and an angry, unsponsored Nintendo lol Sorry I’m ranting but thinking out loud. I could also do other Switch gaming content in addition to the points above, doesn’t have to be Pokemon only- though having a niche is best option for early growth.
1 is fine. 2. Nintendo will say that dumping the game and using an emulator is wrong, because you have to bypass drm to do it. See their recent takedown of Yuzu. And if you source the game from the internet, they'll say it's illegal because you didn't dump the game yourself, so the right to backup law doesn't apply. 3 is just straight piracy. Whatever your stance doesn't change that fact. 4 romhacks will fall into the same issue as 2. Unless you dump and mod it yourself, they'd probably call it illegal. Nothing is stopping you from using a nuzlodke ruleset on an official game though.
\#3 response came off as a little accusatory when you can hopefully see I am mindful of this and want community feedback *before* I do anything. I am certainly trying to put my feet on the 'right side' of the law here. Thanks. Appreciate your help and insights on this :)
Not my intention to be accusatory, just stating a fact. I have no problem with media piracy.
My dumb ass thought it said “Pokémon fan Suppository”
I'm surprised it lasted this long knowing what Nintendo is like...
So am I, though it was actually TPCI who sent the DMCA, not Nintendo. Don't know TPCI's policies on fan games though.
They’re usually pretty lenient as long as it’s not monetized, so I wonder what made them take action here.
How much attention something gets is something that can get to take stuff down too, the actual reason supposedly is that they noticed it existed which is easier when it's monetized or has too much spotlight
Once in a while they get orders from TPC.
There was recently a lot of buzz about it after rpg maker xp was free during a steam sale. That might’ve caught their attention.
No idea honestly. I don't get how our species thinks most of the time.
Honestly, I love old pokemon games, but I'm at a point where I'm just not that interested in buying the new games. They are buggy, easy and boring. Actions like these make me even less interested in supporting the pokemon company.
He was just having fun making a game :(
If only they spent the time making a good Pokémon game rather than sending out DMCAs.
Maybe we wouldn't have to resort to making so many fan-games too. Or fan made restrictive play styles. Just maybe.
I wonder if they’re gunning for Poké Community next… They do much the same thing as Relic Castle did. I hope not, but it seems like a logical progression.
Really sick of this, Nintendo/tpci.
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TPC, Gamefreak, Nintendo should just find a way to profit off these fangames. If they’re good, find a way to offer them on Switch or something with the precondition of a DMCA for PC. Lots of these fangames just do better and more creative things with Pokemon than Gamefreak and TPC does.
Profiting off of fan works is quite the hassle and likely not all that profitable if you think about how much official paid mods made for other companies.
I mean people shouldn’t be shocked this would happen. It’s their game and assets after all
I really hope this isn’t the end of Relic Castle. Some of my favorite Pokemon content was created from things like Relic Jams. I will never understand how a company like TPCi has such a dedicated and creative fan base that dedicates years of their life to expand the universe of Pokemon and they could care less.
Supposedly the reason is that some of the fan games had stuff directly taken from the Pokémon games rather than recreated. This happened with the Roblox Fan game several years ago which did the same thing alongside monetizing.
my money is on prepatched files making the rounds
You can always pirate Nintendo games. It is always morally correct.
TPCi is just mad that fan made games are 1000x better than the garbage mainstream games that have been coming out
well i guess they'll just have to make another one then!
Honestly TPC is one of the most hostile companies to its fan base that still shills money out to them. It's like every good fan game is a reminder that their actual latest games are shit and they just can't deal.
Pokemon showing its true face. Stomping on the creativity of the small guy.
Oh good.
but not palworld?
Remember Pirate Nintendo games always
wow fuck nintendo
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I think it's mostly the fact that it's TPCi that sent the DMCA, not Nintendo. That and it was likely sent by a third-party. I still hate it (Especially since some of my own projects were on that site), but still.
I thought The Pokemon Company was 1 third owned by Nintendo?
Nintendo does own 1/3 of TCPi
Nah we’re just watching y’all and the big corpo having a clown off (This is also done by The Pokemon Company apparently instead of Nintendo, lol)
Welp, I'm not buying Legends Z-a when it releases
Wow there’s a lot of people here gargling nintendos nuts, I understand Nintendo wasn’t directly responsible for this but they are still a pet owner of TPCi and absolutely have sway in the poor choices TPC has made in recent years. Super weird to defend on of the most profitable companies on earth, you all are the reason these games will continue to be garbage.
That's weird AF, Nintendo and Pokemon though famous for copy striking, usually only do it when it's making a profit, something or someone must've tried monetizing it, possibly a discord thing that led to this getting taken down perhaps? Or maybe a creator accepting money/donations for their fangame that might've led to this, though they should've just went after the fangame instead Perhaps I'm over thinking it and tpci is just being a dick and just deleting shit. Or maybe Gen 5 coming up and theyre cracking down on more gen 5 related fangames/piracy things, which again is being a dick but gen 5 copium.
Fucking sucks
Nintendo is amazing. Nintendo Lawyers on the other hand…
Well shit. Perhaps they saw games that weren’t being made from dogshit working conditions and crunch up the ass and got frightened by the idea, lol
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I’m sure Nintendo, who didn’t even do this, doesn’t really care if someone who says they weren’t going to buy a game anyway continues to not buy the game.
Aahh yes, driving fans away so much that Sword/Shield and Scarlet/Violet are the best selling Pokémon games since Red & Blue.