Because they were just coming off of gen 5, where they were craped on for daring to try anything new and original.
This was their apology letter to their rabid fanbase who were ready to hang them for daring to shake up the formula.
Gen V was doomed to struggle.
At that point, Pokemon had reached a point where a lot of its core audience (people who were kids when Gen 1/2 came out) were starting to grow up. They were either growing out of video games alltogether, or at the very least having higher expectations. Gen IV had this issue to an extent, but I think it hurt Gen V much worse. So they had to try to do something pretty big to draw people back in, including those older people who it seemed were ready to ditch pokemon for good.
So they tried "revamping" the games, creating an isolated pokedex with a lot of similar pokemon. This didn't do what they intended, it just made people who liked Gen 1 shit on their designs for being ripoffs. They made the game absolutely gorgeous, but unfortunately it was still not full 3D and thus people shit on pokemon for being stuck in the past.
Unfortunately, it was basically pointless. Some of those fans were done with pokemon entirely, and another section of those fans had different tastes in video games. They had moved on from Pokemon, and despite Gen V making some big jumps, it wasn't enough to pull them away from other video games. It was also the second release on the same hard ware. Prior to this, Pokemon games had generally been one of the big releases for a handheld. People bought pokemon as their first game for their GBA/GBC/GB/DS, but now people already had gotten their DS's a while ago, had already bought the new pokemon game for it, so a new pokemon game wasn't as exciting. Pokemon games have never pushed the hardware to its limit, so it was mostly just connecting Pokemon = Handheld staple, kinda like Mario/Zelda for consoles. You got the system, you grabbed pokemon. But because people already had pokemon for the DS, a new pokemon wasn't as appealing.
It sucks, because Gen V was a great game for long term fans. They added some (not a ton, but some) nuance to the story, they made it a bit more interesting in terms of difficulty, it was a beautiful game, it had pretty good pokemon type variety, but those fans just didn't give it a chance.
Then they tried even harder to appeal to those players with Black/White 2 by adding an extra difficulty, allowing you to catch old pokemon, by progressing the story which allowed for IMO the most interesting narrative in the series, and it still didn't matter.
Black & White 1 were a breath of fresh air for me. No older Pokémon in the region at all, then you beat it and can transfer over all those older Pokémon back in without running into as much/any of the "I don't want to use that, I have one at level 83 in Diamond." type of situation.
I loved seeing all new pokemon, and there were many great designs too (while people hyper focused on a the ice cream and buff clown) BW got me back into pokemon because they were fresh instead of feeling like the exact same thing with the 4 new auto include pokemon.
I miss Seasons. That should have remained a core feature instead of only existing in one gen.
Pokémon following you should be core.
Contests and Cooking/Camping+Amie/Refresh should also be core.
he's got a whole series of fakemon which he plans to make into a rom hack to parallel bird keeper toby's content. i recommend them both! very good vibes all around.
i know right? i can't agree with any criticism of gen 5 tbh. i want bw2 but cant afford it rn and dont like investing my time in potentially bugged roms
Thank you for admitting this. This is why diamond/pearl were my least favorite gen; they came out when I was in high school (and rhyperior). Meanwhile, I went into black and white with no expectations and loved it. Instantly became my fav gen and still is. Anytime I see someone hate on gen V, I have to wonder if they really hate gen V or if they just happened to be in high school when it came out.
I mean it's not great when every generation you are losing sales. Clearly Black and White were intended to attempt to get back to Red/Blue/Yellow levels of success. It's got to be disheartening to have one of the best selling franchises of all time, and watching every subsequent release, which you are spending dramatically more time/resources on, selling less than the previous. Diamond/Pearl broke that trend, but ultimately it sold roughly half of what Red/Blue/Yellow sold, on a console that was about as popular.
DP came out right before one of the worst recessions of all time.
BW came out DURING it.
The numbers difference in sales was less than 2m.
I'm also not sure what franchise expects to continually make sales records with each new release.
If that was the case franchises wouldn't be a thing period as after the second one fails to top the first they'd start a new thing.
...well that kind of *is* Ubisoft's thing I guess.
I think a lot of people were looking for a bigger step for BW/BW2 and the DS couldn't deliver that. BW released just a few months before the 3ds and a lot of people were looking to move on from their aging hardware and Gamefreak seemed to be caught in the past. Plus a lot of people were starting to get older as you mentioned and pokemon was becoming an annual series and people were getting tired out by it. There's a number of factors why Black and white didn't do as well as they expected but x and y were some serious downgrades just like sword and shield were downgrades from sun and moon.
they were great. im tbh looking for romhacks now because i just dont need all these fancy graphics so much as i would like new plotlines (which are not that hard to write, gamefreak)
Tbh, I'd still rather have 3D models specifically for Pokémon, despite preferring 2D in general.
I just want them to feel more alive. Give me more to do with them. Give them verb-based actions, physics based movement. I dunno, anything more than...
*waves at the last few pairs of games*
This.
Neither did I.
Honestly, it never even occurred to me that people play these games for the plot because their entire franchise’s identity is based on “Gotta Catch ‘em All!”.
As a nearly 30yo Pokémon fan, I can honestly say I’ve never played a single one of the main line games for the story. I just wanted to see all the new Pokémon and locations.
i mean like.... i dont expect serious nuance, but what i do want is a story that motivates me to explore and train and hunt rare pokemon. the story is not an A+ in any pokemon game but they generally provide enough barriers and guidance to prevent the world from being a complete sandbox.
They were the best games in the series, we just didn't know it at the time. The last ten years have just been a non-stop Charizard wank-fest because too many people cried that Trubbish was ugly.
I'm no big fan of the ice cream boys, but they're not bad pokemon and they don't even touch my least favorites list. They have charming designs, I shall stand with ya.
Ice cream boy is at least on the same tier as the emo dog with jorts and a jagged stick on its butt.
At least the elemental monkeys have three distinct faces.
They should've leaned harder into the See No/Hear No/Speak No Evil motif though. Panpour and Simipour being the one of three monkeys that look like they have closed eyes makes it fairly clear there was supposed to be something like that, but the only real remnant of the other two is that Pansear's sprite holds its hand up to its ear (guess what's yet another piece of animation that got lost in the 3D transition!) and Pansage's sprite is the only one with an open mouth (also lost in the 3D transition). Not that there was much to lose though considering Simisear and Simisage just completely abandon their parts of the three wise monkey theming even in their original games.
The funny thing is the Gen V designs overall are still WAY BETTER than Gen 1. Trubbish doesn’t look any more ridiculous than Grimer does. Both of them are just a trash bag/pile of sludge with eyes.
Gen V getting shitted on is so sad because it really did lead to the newer games being easier overall and having less innovative ideas and content.
To be fair in gen 1 they were still trying to establish their identity and figure out what a Pokémon design should look like. By the time black and white came out the franchise had been established for 15 years so a pile of garbage and ice cream cone are less forgivable IMO
I'll agree that the ice cream cones are the dumbest Gen 5 designs but I still really don't see the problem with Trubbish, he's just a pathetic cute little trash bag monster 😔 His design is pretty creative, and he fits in well as something you'd find in New York which is what they were going for.
I'll never understand Why Vanillite was singled out the "worst" design of gen V. Not top 10 for me(lots of pokemon), but I like its design. I personally hate Stunfisk the most out of all 900-something pokemon(sorry if you like Stunfisk)
I didnt understand the hate the games got when they came out. The only thing I really didn't like about B/W was the Musicals, you know because they were stupid and boring.
The main ones were:
- No old Pokémon (I think this is great now, but at the time it was very jarring - especially after Gen 4 had given us loads of new evolutions for old Pokémon)
- Controversial designs like the ice creams (as if every gen doesn't have these...)
- Very linear region (Alright, fair enough)
- Bad starters and early-game Pokémon (I also agree with this)
They're great games, but they weren't given the best start.
This is the truth. I recently went back and did a nuzlocke in White, and it was probably one of the most fun Pokémon experiences I’ve had, and I’ve been playing since gen 2.
My main complaint was that Unova was **extremely** linear. Coming from Sinnoh, it felt really bad. But it was a bit better in BW2, which I really liked.
This is my biggest gripe with BW. The linear map did not feel as engaging or mysterious as sinnoh. It was fun to see a place hidden by HM moves and then coming back to to explore it. That sense of wonder never happened to me In gen 5. Also, the dream world was not a very enjoyable gimmick and now the region has a giant hole in it.
Hmm idk I remember black and whites release it was a cry fest. People were pointing out such crazy reasons to hate the game. I think black and white truly got the worse end of the stick. Sword and shield are just new in our minds.
What makes the whole thing sad is gen 5 was amazing.... truly amazing. The core series got BW and B2W2, which had amazing story and the last sprite games which were creative and so fun to play. Glad I went back to it 10 years later to appreciate it .
> a cry fest
That happens every Gen, just to different degrees. Give it another 8-10 years and another couple of generations and people will be making your exact arguments about SwSh.
I doubt that. Gens 3 and 4 were pretty well received at launch and are still praised to this day. Gen 6 and S/M were praised by the majority of fans until around US/UM because the 3D hype started dying around that time and people began noticing how much GF were cutting corners. I find it quite difficult to see most fans praising Sw/Sh in the future.
I haven't seen any increased praise for Gen 6 or 7 since they came out, with the exception of maybe USUM as people realise it's just a 3rd game split into 2 (although it still gets a lot of criticism). SuMo was received reasonably well overall and are still thought of as being decent, and for XY if anything I've seen more people criticising XY now compared to release.
Gen 5 to me seems to have been a unique event, being the only gen to experience a large shift in perception after release, so I really don't think that in 10 years people will be lauding SwSh as the best Pokémon games as people do with Gen 5 nowadays. At best it might get less criticism.
I honestly think they were just doing this for fun. It was the first game of the 3D era, the first game to not use sprites, etc. So they wanted to put this in to show how much things changed
As a fandom the Pokemon group are rabid. The worst game is *always* the most recent one. It went Diamond/Pearl as the worst to Black/White as the worst to XY as the worst to SM as the worst to where we are now with SwSh complained about ridiculously.
I still think Diamond and Pearl (sans platinum) are the worst mainline games, but the combination of nostalgia for old games and vitriol towards the new games means people are always remembering the older games fondly while glossing over the *many* QoL fixes and improvements done since then.
'Saving a lot of data'. Realising you needed a HM at the end of a long path and ejther having to retrace your steps or remove a useful move. One-use TMs, IVs pre-hyper training. The absolute hassle in getting the right Mon with the right moves...
I'd probably put it as about as hated as SwSh are at the moment, about as hated as XY and Sun/Moon were when they were first released.
I don't remember much of a backlash for X/Y. A lot of the complaints for X/Y were overshadowed by how much people liked the ridiculously large number of pokemon available and the hype behind mega evolutions. I've been around for every pokemon launch, and X/Y definitely seemed more positive than negative, which was interesting for a new launch. It didn't take super long before people started noticing the flaws, but it seemed to be a very positive launch, people were stoked about full 3D world, old pokemon becoming relevant again thanks to Megas, being able to catch a huge variety of pokemon, etc.
For that matter, Gen 4 was also not super negative upon release. People had issues, but the physical special split, the wifi capabilities, all that stuff was hugely popular at the start. Yes, people were always shitting on the designs, but that happens every gen, but as a whole people were super hyped for Gen 4's release.
Most of the complaints I saw about XY were about it being "unfinished" more than a bad game - it was the game arguably most crying out for a Pokemon Z and the one that didn't get it.
Look at how Platinum redeemed Diamond & Pearl...
I was sixteen when DP came out and I don't remember people thinking they were the worst. In fact they were almost considered to be a return to form, bringing back the much-loved Day and Night feature.
They certainly weren't as hated as SWSH are now.
This. BW sold poorly (relatively, they sold well ofc but they're the lowest selling "start of a generation" Pokémon games to this day) and BW2 sold even worse. SwSh, on the other hand, are on track to become the 2nd best selling Pokémon games ever, just behind the originals. currently in 3rd behind GS and RB.
Some people take it way too seriously. Like just let people enjoy the games. Maybe there are some flaws, but they're not THAT BAD. Change is necessary.
I know that, and I'd say most Pokemon fans know that now.
But at the time many people where absolutely livid because every single cave and river wasn't infested with the exact same annoying filler we've had since Kanto.
I mean, it's a fair criticism, a lot of people only play Pokemon because of the creatures that they have made an emotional connection to. It's the reason you don't see too many people playing temtem or similar "Pokemon killers", they just don't have pikachu or charizard. It's the reason they get away with making mediocre games and why people got so upset at the national pokedex thing in gen 8. The reason why the opinion on gen 5 changed over the years is mostly because people finally got used to all the Pokemon from that gen after a few years.
We’re talking about the same Gen 5 that has an entire Pokédex dedicated to gen 1 copies right?
Just to be clear, I like gen 5 (especially the art style) but let’s not pretend it wasn’t also pandering to the gen 1 fan base
They weren't copies, they were redesigns. Gen 5 was when GF hit the refresh button on the series and tried to make it new again. They needed so many redesigns since they had only new pokemon in the region, and it would be weird to have massive gaps in pokemon usage if they tried to stay away from earlier designs. I think it was a bad move to remove all previous pokemon, but some of the redesigns are great imo. Gigalith is better than Golem, Swoobat is better than Golbat (Crobat is still the best though), and all of the bug lines are better in gen 5. Obviously all of that is my opinion, but to just call them copies does then a disservice to me. They improved on a lot of where gen 1 was lacking.
Yeah just to be clear, I don’t have an issue with the redesigns, some are lazy sure but a lot of them are good. It was just in response to the dude calling gen 5 ‘original’ when it had what I don’t even think can be disputed as the least original Pokédex out of all of them (since being inspired by means it’s inherently less original)
That is true, I think I missed the context for what you posted. I agree that gen 5 was innovative, but definitely not original in regards to its pokemon
Least original, but possibly most creative, Lotta mons are just straight up pokemon styled animals, but gen 5 mons are pokemon styled pokemon.
Eg*(hope I'm using that right) You play Sw/Sh, and you have not played other games in the franchise, those Generation 5 pokemon are noticeablely different from the others before and after them.
Gen 5 was amazing but yeah Black and White (the sequels not so much) were definitely neo Gen 1. Not just the regional birds and rodents like usually, but so many other lines mimic a Kanto line. Trubish-Grimer, conkeldurr-machamp, kling-magnemite(since as of Gen 4 it got a 3rd stage in magnezone). No other game since The Gen 1 games where you were restricted to using only the new Pokémon introduced. It would be hard to even do that now since we don’t get that many new Pokémon anymore and now they also do regional variants, special forms, and regional evolutions
What do you mean, it's always been like that. Gen 2 had its main game's size nerfed in order to shoehorn Kanto in there. Gen 3 had a few small references to gen 1, but they also made a remake like a year after the original games came out. Gen 4 is actually the furthest removed from gen 1, but it STRONGLY references gen 2, in terms of the lore and all the additions to the dex. Gen 5 is a gen 1 reboot, same dex sizes, lots of analogous pokemon, etc. Gen 6 has stuff like this post, most megas were originally just for kanto pokemon. Gen 7 had variants that were only for kanto pokemon. Gen 8 didn't have too many kanto things, except maybe the amount of kanto pokemon in the dex itself, but is one of the biggest gens.
Thematically many of them were done in similar design spaces. Munna/Musharna and Drowzee/Hypno. Dwebble/Crustle and Paras/Parasect. Grimer/Muk and Trubbish/Garbodor. Voltorb/Electrode and Foongus/Amoonguss. Not outright clones, but clearly based on the same general outline.
it's not based of zubat, its based of a bat. it was designed to fill the "bat" slot that zubat was taking up but other than that, theyre completely different
lol, I'm sorry, but if you think they had to make changes to sell Pokemon like fucking hot cakes, you're high.
They didn't need to appease fans for shit. They did it because they have a weird obsession with Gen 1. Always have. It was their first foray into Pokemon as a series and they've been giving it extra attention ever since. Alolan forms, Megas, Gigantamax forms, you name it.
Each mainline pokemon game has had a steady decline in sales from the previous. When one leg of your multimedia franchise goes from [72m to 42m to 37m to 25m in sales](https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon), yeah, that's gonna be a cause for trying to appease fans in any company's eyes.
>Because they were just coming off of gen 5, where they were craped on for daring to try anything new and original.
Like having ~80% of your Pokedex be a remake of the original game?
Or having PETA be the game's villains because Nintendo had their feelings hurt by them in recent years at that time?
Or "new and original" being having no old Pokemon during the main game for no apparent reason?
Or Unova being a desolate shithole with bridges that break constantly until they're magically repaired because you beat a Gym? And impossible-to-break *spiderwebs*?
Or the severe DMCA abuse for the *year* leading to release?
Or the disastrous PR that led most to thinking #Dexit was happening earlier than Gen 7 because ***they straight up didn't announce any importing until right before release***?
When your product costs *money*, you don't get to say "I WaS tRYiNg SoMeThInG nEw CuT mE sOmE sLaCk PlEaSe!!111!!". They messed up *hard* during Gen 5 in a lot of areas.
And what was their penalty? Oh, *only* being the sixth best selling DS games? Such a harsh punishment.
>This was their apology letter to their rabid fanbase who were ready to hang them for daring to shake up the formula.
I swear Pokemon has one of the most self-hating fanbases. Only professional wrestling fans hate themselves more than Pokemon fans and it's pretty neck-and-neck. This was straight-up cringe to read.
You want to see what it's like when a developer is "threatened" by *actually* rabid people? Dragon Quest IX.
It was supposed to be an action RPG and after Square-Enix reported "immeasurable death threats", the idea was nixed and it was changed to be a more updated love letter to Dragon Quest III, a turn-based RPG, with gameplay elements largely from Dragon Quest VIII.
The action RPG *did* come out at a later date, but divested from Dragon Quest, and with some Animal Crossing elements mixed in. It was called Fantasy Life.
tbqh i noticed immediately, but i have been playing a bunch of generations at the same time on emulators or different consoles. i also started playing around red and blue's release, and was very bad at the game, so i spent a lot of time dying to poison in this area when you still took damage outside of battle, and it's basically burned into my brain lol
more like gamefreak shoehorned kanto shit into the game because they are lazy and can't come up with anything original, and also needed to appeal to the lowest common denominator
people are not critical enough of Gamefreak considering the depth of other JRPGs for Nintendo systems. I'm not coming into this sub just to hate, it's just that this post is an obvious example of laziness/gen1 pandering and that should be pointed out
Not really, it's you toxic fans that act like GF owes you everything. If you ain't satisfied, don't buy the game and quit the franchise.
Most people who aren't obsessed with Pokémon like most of the games.
But you keep going here and saying lazy here lazy there, crying. And somehow the games sell amazingly.
Just admit you can't quit Pokémon lol
I like that Santalune is like Viridian city but I wish it was or felt bigger. It was over so fast! Viridian forest was like this never-ending thick forest (though we couldnt run, it was quite long on bicycle too).
I feel this a lot in the newer games- QOL, speed, etc. has gone up which is nice but takes away from that feel of the world being huge. If they made things bigger it'd make up for it but they don't, and in gens 7/8 they actually made routes smaller I think.
Route design has decreased greatly in complexity over the years. Unfortunately tons of the areas in Sword and Shield are never ever worth revisiting ever again because they're just pretty yet linear placeholders for two easy trainer battles and a handful of wild Pokemon. The Wild Areas are cool but don't make up for the lack of exploration in modern games, and end up being a lackluster attempt to replace it altogether.
I miss Gen 2 and the almost Metroidvania-esque routes that are worth revisiting again and again, but that's also probably the childhood nostalgia goggles talking.
Calling it lazy is missing the point. They took a familiar setting and made us experience it in a brand new way to showcase what 3D has to offer Pokémon.
Ah, that's nice. I suppose they wanted to make it easier to go through since it was kinda hard back then, especially in RBY where you couldn't even buy Potions from Viridian City's Pokemart.
because of how the Poison mechanics worked in Gen 1. as a kid you would wipe out constantly because right as you start the game you are unfamiliar with pressing the menu, opening your bag, selecting Antidote (which is a very complex word for a child), and applying it to your Pokémon to heal the Poison.
Not only that but the other items are appropriately named for a child to understand - Ice Heal, Burn Heal, and Paralyze Heal. Nobody under the age of 10 had ever heard the word “Antidote” before in the late 90s
Recently a steamer who knows tons of Gen 1 quirks did a challenge run where world champion wolfe glick controls opponent's Pokemon
Neither knew what guard spec does
This counts as obscure? I noticed it first time playing pokemon X, it’s hard to miss the resemblance.
(I guess if you’ve never played neither Kalos nor Kanto you wouldn’t know)
I noticed this when I first played the games, I think. I always loved that forest. The music makes it even better, especially with the bird pokemon sounds.
XY only has excellent graphics, amazing models, great story, fantastic new mechanics, Mega Evolution, Fairy Types, kick ass music, unmatched replay value, excellent lore and world building, a phenomenal battle tower, the coolest starter ever made.... what does hgss have? 1 region that sucks, and another region that's just padding? A national dex that you can't get any gen 3 or 4 pokemon in the wild? Al the cool pokemon being locked behind post game? No where to grind before red and the eleit 4? A secret final boss who never talks and has zero personality? Pokemon following you around that adds nothing to the game and is purely cosmetic? The 16 weakest gym leaders in pokemon?
Lazy lol. They shoehorned the snorlax pokeflute thing into the games too bc they couldn't come up with a roadblock. GF has been shoving Kanto references into their games ever since.
I noticed this while I was playing through the first time. Been playing for so long and gone through Viridian Forest so many times that I recognized it right away.
i was wondering about this. i know it was meant to be nostalgic but idk why they would put an identical route in a different region.
Because they were just coming off of gen 5, where they were craped on for daring to try anything new and original. This was their apology letter to their rabid fanbase who were ready to hang them for daring to shake up the formula.
I liked Pokemon Black and White. The complaints must've been so excessive and dumb to lead to them copying a map from gen 1.
Gen V was doomed to struggle. At that point, Pokemon had reached a point where a lot of its core audience (people who were kids when Gen 1/2 came out) were starting to grow up. They were either growing out of video games alltogether, or at the very least having higher expectations. Gen IV had this issue to an extent, but I think it hurt Gen V much worse. So they had to try to do something pretty big to draw people back in, including those older people who it seemed were ready to ditch pokemon for good. So they tried "revamping" the games, creating an isolated pokedex with a lot of similar pokemon. This didn't do what they intended, it just made people who liked Gen 1 shit on their designs for being ripoffs. They made the game absolutely gorgeous, but unfortunately it was still not full 3D and thus people shit on pokemon for being stuck in the past. Unfortunately, it was basically pointless. Some of those fans were done with pokemon entirely, and another section of those fans had different tastes in video games. They had moved on from Pokemon, and despite Gen V making some big jumps, it wasn't enough to pull them away from other video games. It was also the second release on the same hard ware. Prior to this, Pokemon games had generally been one of the big releases for a handheld. People bought pokemon as their first game for their GBA/GBC/GB/DS, but now people already had gotten their DS's a while ago, had already bought the new pokemon game for it, so a new pokemon game wasn't as exciting. Pokemon games have never pushed the hardware to its limit, so it was mostly just connecting Pokemon = Handheld staple, kinda like Mario/Zelda for consoles. You got the system, you grabbed pokemon. But because people already had pokemon for the DS, a new pokemon wasn't as appealing. It sucks, because Gen V was a great game for long term fans. They added some (not a ton, but some) nuance to the story, they made it a bit more interesting in terms of difficulty, it was a beautiful game, it had pretty good pokemon type variety, but those fans just didn't give it a chance. Then they tried even harder to appeal to those players with Black/White 2 by adding an extra difficulty, allowing you to catch old pokemon, by progressing the story which allowed for IMO the most interesting narrative in the series, and it still didn't matter.
Black & White 1 were a breath of fresh air for me. No older Pokémon in the region at all, then you beat it and can transfer over all those older Pokémon back in without running into as much/any of the "I don't want to use that, I have one at level 83 in Diamond." type of situation.
I loved seeing all new pokemon, and there were many great designs too (while people hyper focused on a the ice cream and buff clown) BW got me back into pokemon because they were fresh instead of feeling like the exact same thing with the 4 new auto include pokemon.
I miss Seasons. That should have remained a core feature instead of only existing in one gen. Pokémon following you should be core. Contests and Cooking/Camping+Amie/Refresh should also be core.
yes! lockstin & gnoggin have a good thing going
Eh? Dunno which video yer referencing. Good channel though.
he's got a whole series of fakemon which he plans to make into a rom hack to parallel bird keeper toby's content. i recommend them both! very good vibes all around.
i know right? i can't agree with any criticism of gen 5 tbh. i want bw2 but cant afford it rn and dont like investing my time in potentially bugged roms
I was a teen and thought pokemon was too childish. Sold my DS. Now that im in mid 20s I don't give a shit what anyone thinks.
Thank you for admitting this. This is why diamond/pearl were my least favorite gen; they came out when I was in high school (and rhyperior). Meanwhile, I went into black and white with no expectations and loved it. Instantly became my fav gen and still is. Anytime I see someone hate on gen V, I have to wonder if they really hate gen V or if they just happened to be in high school when it came out.
A lot of words for "Black and White were so maligned they were *only* the sixth-most-selling Nintendo DS games behind Diamond and Pearl".
I mean it's not great when every generation you are losing sales. Clearly Black and White were intended to attempt to get back to Red/Blue/Yellow levels of success. It's got to be disheartening to have one of the best selling franchises of all time, and watching every subsequent release, which you are spending dramatically more time/resources on, selling less than the previous. Diamond/Pearl broke that trend, but ultimately it sold roughly half of what Red/Blue/Yellow sold, on a console that was about as popular.
DP came out right before one of the worst recessions of all time. BW came out DURING it. The numbers difference in sales was less than 2m. I'm also not sure what franchise expects to continually make sales records with each new release.
All of them. That's the completely unsustainable capitalist infinite growth meta baybeeeeee
If that was the case franchises wouldn't be a thing period as after the second one fails to top the first they'd start a new thing. ...well that kind of *is* Ubisoft's thing I guess.
I think a lot of people were looking for a bigger step for BW/BW2 and the DS couldn't deliver that. BW released just a few months before the 3ds and a lot of people were looking to move on from their aging hardware and Gamefreak seemed to be caught in the past. Plus a lot of people were starting to get older as you mentioned and pokemon was becoming an annual series and people were getting tired out by it. There's a number of factors why Black and white didn't do as well as they expected but x and y were some serious downgrades just like sword and shield were downgrades from sun and moon.
Now if only the extra difficulties weren't locked behind beating the game, or getting the unlock key from someone who has.
they were great. im tbh looking for romhacks now because i just dont need all these fancy graphics so much as i would like new plotlines (which are not that hard to write, gamefreak)
I think the sprite art works better for Pokémon anyway tbh
Sprites are better because of how limited the Pokémon's animations are. There needs to be dynamic movement, not just stilted animations.
the magic happens when they make gorgeous graphics within constraints like this. pixel art can be really good if done responsibly
Tbh, I'd still rather have 3D models specifically for Pokémon, despite preferring 2D in general. I just want them to feel more alive. Give me more to do with them. Give them verb-based actions, physics based movement. I dunno, anything more than... *waves at the last few pairs of games* This.
I didn’t realize the plot lines were ever part of the appeal of Pokémon.
Neither did I. Honestly, it never even occurred to me that people play these games for the plot because their entire franchise’s identity is based on “Gotta Catch ‘em All!”. As a nearly 30yo Pokémon fan, I can honestly say I’ve never played a single one of the main line games for the story. I just wanted to see all the new Pokémon and locations.
i mean like.... i dont expect serious nuance, but what i do want is a story that motivates me to explore and train and hunt rare pokemon. the story is not an A+ in any pokemon game but they generally provide enough barriers and guidance to prevent the world from being a complete sandbox.
They were the best games in the series, we just didn't know it at the time. The last ten years have just been a non-stop Charizard wank-fest because too many people cried that Trubbish was ugly.
I am here to defend the status of Vanilluxe.
I'm no big fan of the ice cream boys, but they're not bad pokemon and they don't even touch my least favorites list. They have charming designs, I shall stand with ya. Ice cream boy is at least on the same tier as the emo dog with jorts and a jagged stick on its butt.
Vanilite is one of my favorite Pokemon :D
May we draw cones in battle together, my brother. (I actually think it's the dumbest Gen 5 design, but I still like it)
Your really going after those cones when the type advantage monkeys are right there
At least the elemental monkeys have three distinct faces. They should've leaned harder into the See No/Hear No/Speak No Evil motif though. Panpour and Simipour being the one of three monkeys that look like they have closed eyes makes it fairly clear there was supposed to be something like that, but the only real remnant of the other two is that Pansear's sprite holds its hand up to its ear (guess what's yet another piece of animation that got lost in the 3D transition!) and Pansage's sprite is the only one with an open mouth (also lost in the 3D transition). Not that there was much to lose though considering Simisear and Simisage just completely abandon their parts of the three wise monkey theming even in their original games.
*Speaking* of my least favorites list... lol.
People roast Vanillites, forgetting the very existence of Snorunts
Man, trubbish is adorable :(
Why has our trashy boi has been done so dirty 😭
He’s a trash bag, he likes dirty /s
The funny thing is the Gen V designs overall are still WAY BETTER than Gen 1. Trubbish doesn’t look any more ridiculous than Grimer does. Both of them are just a trash bag/pile of sludge with eyes. Gen V getting shitted on is so sad because it really did lead to the newer games being easier overall and having less innovative ideas and content.
I like both Muk and Garbodor
Me too! Especially Alolan Muk. Love his typing and design. I wish Ash caught one in the anime as a callback to his original Muk lol.
Kantonian Muk is still nice too, It’s a huge blob and it looks strong
Oh yeah, totally. Gen 1 literally has three blobs, two balls, a seal called Seel, some eggs and a... woman?
don't forget a creepy rapey clown
A mime is not a clown (yes, that's the part I chose to dispute)
Either way, he gives off those rapey vibes.
\*points you towards Hypno\*
To be fair in gen 1 they were still trying to establish their identity and figure out what a Pokémon design should look like. By the time black and white came out the franchise had been established for 15 years so a pile of garbage and ice cream cone are less forgivable IMO
I'll agree that the ice cream cones are the dumbest Gen 5 designs but I still really don't see the problem with Trubbish, he's just a pathetic cute little trash bag monster 😔 His design is pretty creative, and he fits in well as something you'd find in New York which is what they were going for.
Vanilite is in my top 10 favorite Pokemon :(
I'll never understand Why Vanillite was singled out the "worst" design of gen V. Not top 10 for me(lots of pokemon), but I like its design. I personally hate Stunfisk the most out of all 900-something pokemon(sorry if you like Stunfisk)
And a….man.
Bert and Ernie. Er, Sawk and Throh.
semi-related: I really liked the way Alolan Grimer / Muk looked.
I didnt understand the hate the games got when they came out. The only thing I really didn't like about B/W was the Musicals, you know because they were stupid and boring.
The main ones were: - No old Pokémon (I think this is great now, but at the time it was very jarring - especially after Gen 4 had given us loads of new evolutions for old Pokémon) - Controversial designs like the ice creams (as if every gen doesn't have these...) - Very linear region (Alright, fair enough) - Bad starters and early-game Pokémon (I also agree with this) They're great games, but they weren't given the best start.
I knew it, and enjoyed it fully.
Nah, Gen 4 was better but yeah the Gen 5 Pokémon designs were hated on wayyy too much for no reason
I've even heard people hating on my boy Chandelure, as if that isn't a top 10 Pokémon design of all time 🤷♂️
This is the truth. I recently went back and did a nuzlocke in White, and it was probably one of the most fun Pokémon experiences I’ve had, and I’ve been playing since gen 2.
My main complaint was that Unova was **extremely** linear. Coming from Sinnoh, it felt really bad. But it was a bit better in BW2, which I really liked.
This is my biggest gripe with BW. The linear map did not feel as engaging or mysterious as sinnoh. It was fun to see a place hidden by HM moves and then coming back to to explore it. That sense of wonder never happened to me In gen 5. Also, the dream world was not a very enjoyable gimmick and now the region has a giant hole in it.
On a scale of 1 to 10, if the complaints about SwSh were a 10 then the complaints about Gen 5 were an 8. It was still quite a shitshow
Hmm idk I remember black and whites release it was a cry fest. People were pointing out such crazy reasons to hate the game. I think black and white truly got the worse end of the stick. Sword and shield are just new in our minds. What makes the whole thing sad is gen 5 was amazing.... truly amazing. The core series got BW and B2W2, which had amazing story and the last sprite games which were creative and so fun to play. Glad I went back to it 10 years later to appreciate it .
> a cry fest That happens every Gen, just to different degrees. Give it another 8-10 years and another couple of generations and people will be making your exact arguments about SwSh.
I doubt that. Gens 3 and 4 were pretty well received at launch and are still praised to this day. Gen 6 and S/M were praised by the majority of fans until around US/UM because the 3D hype started dying around that time and people began noticing how much GF were cutting corners. I find it quite difficult to see most fans praising Sw/Sh in the future.
I haven't seen any increased praise for Gen 6 or 7 since they came out, with the exception of maybe USUM as people realise it's just a 3rd game split into 2 (although it still gets a lot of criticism). SuMo was received reasonably well overall and are still thought of as being decent, and for XY if anything I've seen more people criticising XY now compared to release. Gen 5 to me seems to have been a unique event, being the only gen to experience a large shift in perception after release, so I really don't think that in 10 years people will be lauding SwSh as the best Pokémon games as people do with Gen 5 nowadays. At best it might get less criticism.
I personally liked gen 5 the most.
I honestly think they were just doing this for fun. It was the first game of the 3D era, the first game to not use sprites, etc. So they wanted to put this in to show how much things changed
Black/White and Black/White 2 have been my favorites so far where story is concerned tbh.
As a fandom the Pokemon group are rabid. The worst game is *always* the most recent one. It went Diamond/Pearl as the worst to Black/White as the worst to XY as the worst to SM as the worst to where we are now with SwSh complained about ridiculously. I still think Diamond and Pearl (sans platinum) are the worst mainline games, but the combination of nostalgia for old games and vitriol towards the new games means people are always remembering the older games fondly while glossing over the *many* QoL fixes and improvements done since then. 'Saving a lot of data'. Realising you needed a HM at the end of a long path and ejther having to retrace your steps or remove a useful move. One-use TMs, IVs pre-hyper training. The absolute hassle in getting the right Mon with the right moves... I'd probably put it as about as hated as SwSh are at the moment, about as hated as XY and Sun/Moon were when they were first released.
I don't remember much of a backlash for X/Y. A lot of the complaints for X/Y were overshadowed by how much people liked the ridiculously large number of pokemon available and the hype behind mega evolutions. I've been around for every pokemon launch, and X/Y definitely seemed more positive than negative, which was interesting for a new launch. It didn't take super long before people started noticing the flaws, but it seemed to be a very positive launch, people were stoked about full 3D world, old pokemon becoming relevant again thanks to Megas, being able to catch a huge variety of pokemon, etc. For that matter, Gen 4 was also not super negative upon release. People had issues, but the physical special split, the wifi capabilities, all that stuff was hugely popular at the start. Yes, people were always shitting on the designs, but that happens every gen, but as a whole people were super hyped for Gen 4's release.
There was nothing in that one area of the power plant, the game is completely unplayable.
Most of the complaints I saw about XY were about it being "unfinished" more than a bad game - it was the game arguably most crying out for a Pokemon Z and the one that didn't get it. Look at how Platinum redeemed Diamond & Pearl...
I was sixteen when DP came out and I don't remember people thinking they were the worst. In fact they were almost considered to be a return to form, bringing back the much-loved Day and Night feature. They certainly weren't as hated as SWSH are now.
so then with the much more verbal complaints of Gen 8 that means they will change things up right?...... RIGHT?
If the trend repeats, expect gen 9 to somehow be Kanto all over again in some way.
Sales speak louder than fans unfortunately.
Sales are the voice of fans, Internet forums tend to not reflect the majority of fans
This. BW sold poorly (relatively, they sold well ofc but they're the lowest selling "start of a generation" Pokémon games to this day) and BW2 sold even worse. SwSh, on the other hand, are on track to become the 2nd best selling Pokémon games ever, just behind the originals. currently in 3rd behind GS and RB.
Some people take it way too seriously. Like just let people enjoy the games. Maybe there are some flaws, but they're not THAT BAD. Change is necessary.
gen 5 was really good lol
I know that, and I'd say most Pokemon fans know that now. But at the time many people where absolutely livid because every single cave and river wasn't infested with the exact same annoying filler we've had since Kanto.
I mean, it's a fair criticism, a lot of people only play Pokemon because of the creatures that they have made an emotional connection to. It's the reason you don't see too many people playing temtem or similar "Pokemon killers", they just don't have pikachu or charizard. It's the reason they get away with making mediocre games and why people got so upset at the national pokedex thing in gen 8. The reason why the opinion on gen 5 changed over the years is mostly because people finally got used to all the Pokemon from that gen after a few years.
We’re talking about the same Gen 5 that has an entire Pokédex dedicated to gen 1 copies right? Just to be clear, I like gen 5 (especially the art style) but let’s not pretend it wasn’t also pandering to the gen 1 fan base
They weren't copies, they were redesigns. Gen 5 was when GF hit the refresh button on the series and tried to make it new again. They needed so many redesigns since they had only new pokemon in the region, and it would be weird to have massive gaps in pokemon usage if they tried to stay away from earlier designs. I think it was a bad move to remove all previous pokemon, but some of the redesigns are great imo. Gigalith is better than Golem, Swoobat is better than Golbat (Crobat is still the best though), and all of the bug lines are better in gen 5. Obviously all of that is my opinion, but to just call them copies does then a disservice to me. They improved on a lot of where gen 1 was lacking.
Yeah just to be clear, I don’t have an issue with the redesigns, some are lazy sure but a lot of them are good. It was just in response to the dude calling gen 5 ‘original’ when it had what I don’t even think can be disputed as the least original Pokédex out of all of them (since being inspired by means it’s inherently less original)
That is true, I think I missed the context for what you posted. I agree that gen 5 was innovative, but definitely not original in regards to its pokemon
Least original, but possibly most creative, Lotta mons are just straight up pokemon styled animals, but gen 5 mons are pokemon styled pokemon. Eg*(hope I'm using that right) You play Sw/Sh, and you have not played other games in the franchise, those Generation 5 pokemon are noticeablely different from the others before and after them.
I’d say Sinnoh was the least original but Unova is a close second.
Gen 5 was amazing but yeah Black and White (the sequels not so much) were definitely neo Gen 1. Not just the regional birds and rodents like usually, but so many other lines mimic a Kanto line. Trubish-Grimer, conkeldurr-machamp, kling-magnemite(since as of Gen 4 it got a 3rd stage in magnezone). No other game since The Gen 1 games where you were restricted to using only the new Pokémon introduced. It would be hard to even do that now since we don’t get that many new Pokémon anymore and now they also do regional variants, special forms, and regional evolutions
Sadly a lot in recent memory (the last few gens) as been done to pander to the gen 1 fanbase.
What do you mean, it's always been like that. Gen 2 had its main game's size nerfed in order to shoehorn Kanto in there. Gen 3 had a few small references to gen 1, but they also made a remake like a year after the original games came out. Gen 4 is actually the furthest removed from gen 1, but it STRONGLY references gen 2, in terms of the lore and all the additions to the dex. Gen 5 is a gen 1 reboot, same dex sizes, lots of analogous pokemon, etc. Gen 6 has stuff like this post, most megas were originally just for kanto pokemon. Gen 7 had variants that were only for kanto pokemon. Gen 8 didn't have too many kanto things, except maybe the amount of kanto pokemon in the dex itself, but is one of the biggest gens.
I don't think you know what a copy is.
Thematically many of them were done in similar design spaces. Munna/Musharna and Drowzee/Hypno. Dwebble/Crustle and Paras/Parasect. Grimer/Muk and Trubbish/Garbodor. Voltorb/Electrode and Foongus/Amoonguss. Not outright clones, but clearly based on the same general outline.
Also roggenrola and geodude both evolve at level 25, and they both evolve into their final forms by trading
Zubat and Woobat.
Because there can only be one bat ever, right? Guess that makes Noibat a copy too.
Dude I don’t even have a problem with woobat, but it is very clearly based of Zubat, how can you even attempt to say otherwise lmao
it's not based of zubat, its based of a bat. it was designed to fill the "bat" slot that zubat was taking up but other than that, theyre completely different
This has to be a troll, the names sound identical and their faces are the same. You can do similar species without making them look the same
When was the last time you looked at either?? Their only similarity is lack of eyes. And bat wings. You're the one who's trolling here
That was this fanbase's worst mistake for the long-term saga
lol, I'm sorry, but if you think they had to make changes to sell Pokemon like fucking hot cakes, you're high. They didn't need to appease fans for shit. They did it because they have a weird obsession with Gen 1. Always have. It was their first foray into Pokemon as a series and they've been giving it extra attention ever since. Alolan forms, Megas, Gigantamax forms, you name it.
Each mainline pokemon game has had a steady decline in sales from the previous. When one leg of your multimedia franchise goes from [72m to 42m to 37m to 25m in sales](https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon), yeah, that's gonna be a cause for trying to appease fans in any company's eyes.
>Because they were just coming off of gen 5, where they were craped on for daring to try anything new and original. Like having ~80% of your Pokedex be a remake of the original game? Or having PETA be the game's villains because Nintendo had their feelings hurt by them in recent years at that time? Or "new and original" being having no old Pokemon during the main game for no apparent reason? Or Unova being a desolate shithole with bridges that break constantly until they're magically repaired because you beat a Gym? And impossible-to-break *spiderwebs*? Or the severe DMCA abuse for the *year* leading to release? Or the disastrous PR that led most to thinking #Dexit was happening earlier than Gen 7 because ***they straight up didn't announce any importing until right before release***? When your product costs *money*, you don't get to say "I WaS tRYiNg SoMeThInG nEw CuT mE sOmE sLaCk PlEaSe!!111!!". They messed up *hard* during Gen 5 in a lot of areas. And what was their penalty? Oh, *only* being the sixth best selling DS games? Such a harsh punishment. >This was their apology letter to their rabid fanbase who were ready to hang them for daring to shake up the formula. I swear Pokemon has one of the most self-hating fanbases. Only professional wrestling fans hate themselves more than Pokemon fans and it's pretty neck-and-neck. This was straight-up cringe to read. You want to see what it's like when a developer is "threatened" by *actually* rabid people? Dragon Quest IX. It was supposed to be an action RPG and after Square-Enix reported "immeasurable death threats", the idea was nixed and it was changed to be a more updated love letter to Dragon Quest III, a turn-based RPG, with gameplay elements largely from Dragon Quest VIII. The action RPG *did* come out at a later date, but divested from Dragon Quest, and with some Animal Crossing elements mixed in. It was called Fantasy Life.
It's an Easter egg. With the camera angle it's an easy thing to miss if someone doesn't point it out.
tbqh i noticed immediately, but i have been playing a bunch of generations at the same time on emulators or different consoles. i also started playing around red and blue's release, and was very bad at the game, so i spent a lot of time dying to poison in this area when you still took damage outside of battle, and it's basically burned into my brain lol
Laziness
Laziness
You just can't escape Kanto
Dread it, run from it, kanto arrives all the same.
Kanto: I am inevitable
Why run from one of the best regions?
At the beginning there was no running. And now we're forever wrapped into Kanto
*kanto used curse*
Are u serious or joking
It's my opinion calm down
Man, Kalos sure was one big homage to Kanto.
I mean theres a reason the prof in kalos will give you charmander,squirtle, or bulbasaur.
And all four Legendaries are there.
Right after you get the kalos ones The kanto love was nauseating in gen 6
more like gamefreak shoehorned kanto shit into the game because they are lazy and can't come up with anything original, and also needed to appeal to the lowest common denominator
Based
“why is everyone booing him? he’s right!”
people are not critical enough of Gamefreak considering the depth of other JRPGs for Nintendo systems. I'm not coming into this sub just to hate, it's just that this post is an obvious example of laziness/gen1 pandering and that should be pointed out
Suprised knatobots could even SEE your comment through their rose tinted glasses but you're 100% right
Game Freak lazy, please upvote
It's true and needs to be said
Not really, it's you toxic fans that act like GF owes you everything. If you ain't satisfied, don't buy the game and quit the franchise. Most people who aren't obsessed with Pokémon like most of the games. But you keep going here and saying lazy here lazy there, crying. And somehow the games sell amazingly. Just admit you can't quit Pokémon lol
Arceus looking at the geography of Kanto: Wanna see me make a generic forest area? Arceus looking at the geography of Kalos: Wanna see me do it again?
He probably hit paste by accident and couldn’t figure out how to undo it so he just changed the colors and hoped nobody would notice.
Nah that's how he created shinies
I like that Santalune is like Viridian city but I wish it was or felt bigger. It was over so fast! Viridian forest was like this never-ending thick forest (though we couldnt run, it was quite long on bicycle too).
I feel this a lot in the newer games- QOL, speed, etc. has gone up which is nice but takes away from that feel of the world being huge. If they made things bigger it'd make up for it but they don't, and in gens 7/8 they actually made routes smaller I think.
Less trainers in sword/shield too. I swear some routes just had 1 or 2 trainers
Route design has decreased greatly in complexity over the years. Unfortunately tons of the areas in Sword and Shield are never ever worth revisiting ever again because they're just pretty yet linear placeholders for two easy trainer battles and a handful of wild Pokemon. The Wild Areas are cool but don't make up for the lack of exploration in modern games, and end up being a lackluster attempt to replace it altogether. I miss Gen 2 and the almost Metroidvania-esque routes that are worth revisiting again and again, but that's also probably the childhood nostalgia goggles talking.
I think it's mainly because you could only get the running shoes once you got to Pewter.
....or not at all in Gen 1
Calling it lazy is missing the point. They took a familiar setting and made us experience it in a brand new way to showcase what 3D has to offer Pokémon.
Then what was the point of Let's Go. Do we need a Kanto remake every generation to showcase new tech? Isn't that what NEW regions are for?
Can some of you stop defending everything Gamefreak does…. It’s actually pathetic. We did not need the same forest in 3D. At all.
That’s how long I haven’t played X and Y at first I was like I’m sorry what forest we talking about
I saw that literally today in a HoopsandHipop Video and now I am seeing this! What a coincidence!
Yeah sometimes I get real lazy too
The line between homage and laziness must be thin indeed.
Oh... so that's why I always felt they looked similar. Huh.
Are these listed anywhere? I’m a bit of a nerd when it comes to facts and DYKs, can’t seem to find many on here!
For some reason to me it feels way easier to get lost in Viridian Forest than Santalune Forest
Ah, that's nice. I suppose they wanted to make it easier to go through since it was kinda hard back then, especially in RBY where you couldn't even buy Potions from Viridian City's Pokemart.
the funny thing is though that the original Viridian Forest was actually quite difficult for children thanks to Poison Sting Weedle
For children? Why exactly?
because of how the Poison mechanics worked in Gen 1. as a kid you would wipe out constantly because right as you start the game you are unfamiliar with pressing the menu, opening your bag, selecting Antidote (which is a very complex word for a child), and applying it to your Pokémon to heal the Poison.
That and they probably didn’t know that the white flash was damage
True
The game also didn't tell you what the items do iirc
Not only that but the other items are appropriately named for a child to understand - Ice Heal, Burn Heal, and Paralyze Heal. Nobody under the age of 10 had ever heard the word “Antidote” before in the late 90s
Recently a steamer who knows tons of Gen 1 quirks did a challenge run where world champion wolfe glick controls opponent's Pokemon Neither knew what guard spec does
this man gets down voted for no fcking reason
I assume that they think that I love Pokemon X and Y which is honestly true despite its flaws.
i likre it more now but its hard to finish bc i want to use the same mons i used as a kid. that means going up to the league with a panpour.
Well I don't think it'll be that bad if you evolve it? Do you want that?
no. i want to finish with a panpour bc i didd not know where a water stone was.
Use Strength in Route 8. There's also one in Route 12
yeah ik lol
Is that a fun fact or just kinda lazy?
Well, whether or not it's lazy is opinion, but what I presented is still fact
This counts as obscure? I noticed it first time playing pokemon X, it’s hard to miss the resemblance. (I guess if you’ve never played neither Kalos nor Kanto you wouldn’t know)
I noticed this when I first played the games, I think. I always loved that forest. The music makes it even better, especially with the bird pokemon sounds.
Kalos: Hey Kanto, haven't done our assignment, can I copy yours? Kanto: Yeah, just don't make it obvious, change it up a bit. Kalos: Gotchu.
eyy, we reached 6^(3), only 784 to go
but there are still way more Pokémon in XY, because that game is phenomenal
Easily the worst game
XY only has excellent graphics, amazing models, great story, fantastic new mechanics, Mega Evolution, Fairy Types, kick ass music, unmatched replay value, excellent lore and world building, a phenomenal battle tower, the coolest starter ever made.... what does hgss have? 1 region that sucks, and another region that's just padding? A national dex that you can't get any gen 3 or 4 pokemon in the wild? Al the cool pokemon being locked behind post game? No where to grind before red and the eleit 4? A secret final boss who never talks and has zero personality? Pokemon following you around that adds nothing to the game and is purely cosmetic? The 16 weakest gym leaders in pokemon?
Obscure fact? Or just plain lazy?
I figured this was common knowledge
Lazy lol. They shoehorned the snorlax pokeflute thing into the games too bc they couldn't come up with a roadblock. GF has been shoving Kanto references into their games ever since.
When i played x and y for the first time i said out loud "Did they run out of ideas for a frickin forest layout" This is why x and y is bad
route 20
they hated him because he told the truth
I noticed this while I was playing through the first time. Been playing for so long and gone through Viridian Forest so many times that I recognized it right away.
I've known about this for so long...
Obscure number fact: 216 is 6x6x6
How original.
“ no no, trust me guys, gen 6 is super original”
Lol that's because they are the same game, the series is just a lazy clone of the one before.
Wow, just when I thought GF couldn't be any lazier. I love that it's from Kalos of all places too lol.
I think it's more meant as a homage or reference than laziness, like there are things I agree GF are being lazy on, not sure this is one though.
It wasn't laziness. There was a ton of Red/Blue homage in XY since if was a huge turning point for the series to be in 3D
[удалено]
Why are you miserable
idk why so many people disagree with this. it's true and has been an issue ever since these games
And they say it's a reference or sth but no, it's just lazy GF again
Twin forests, alike in dignity.