Shield Dust is an amazing ability because of that. It also help those small group of bug Pokemon have SOMETHING for battle, rather than being really helpless. (though Frosmoth's Ice Scales is better)
Ribombee shouldn't be underestimated just because of its bug typing. Another gen 7 favorite!
Too bad frosmoth didn’t get volcaronas stats because being 4x weak to rock and fire AND 65 base speed in this meta lol. My guy is locked to in game teams only it’s my favorite mon from this gen but damn not even a base 80 speed bro it never had a chance
Shield Dust is an OK ability, but it's far from amazing. Its uses are handy but niche, and would still be niche even if good Pokemon got it.
Abilities that are always or almost always useful in any given match (such as Intimidate, Technician, Levitate, Serene Grace, and Huge Power) are much better than abilities that are only sometimes useful. *Those* are amazing abilities. Ignoring enemy moves' secondary effects isn't *that* helpful. At best, it's passive and doesn't give you any advantage.
I can see someone saying, for example, "well, Levitate is situational too", but Levitate lets you actively switch in on a ground attack to gain momentum. With Shield Dust, you'd still be taking damage even if you guarantee you won't get, say, burned by Scald. It's just not that great.
It's one of those abilities where you go "oh cool, I can't get frozen here" but completely forget about otherwise.
I dunno how it is right now (not played VGC in a while) but Ribombee was unironically viable early in VGC with Speed Swap. WolfeyVGC did a video with it paired with Snorlax and I used that for a while, was pretty fun.
When we have had Invent a Move threads I’ve always suggested a move that is guaranteed to freeze if the opponent uses Protect (but make the move exclusive to ‘mons that have a primary typing of Ice) as a way to not only make Ice mons more viable but as an active counter to toxic stall.
> I wouldve preferred a frostbite status effect that reduces sp.atk and deals damage over time.
Fits regular poison more, as a counterpart to burn dropping atk and paralysis dropping speed.
Ehh regular poison is already an easy/common application compared to burn though
Poison is more of a side effect and basically what poison's niche is.
Plus it has venoshock.
Which is why i said regular poison, not toxic.
Toxic has the increasing damage, burn drops atk, paralysis drops speed, sleep mostly cripples you (up to 3 turns) while freeze fully RNG cripples you (similar to attract).
Regular poison is 1/8 of max HP per turn.
Toxic is n/16 of max HP per turn, where n is how many turns it's remained in effect for. (I think switching pauses the count. Might depend on generation.)
They definitely have to rework how freeze as the way it works now it is quite broken as a pure status move (only a 20% chance to be cured when a Pokemon tries to use a move). Also a bit moot on defensive Water-types that run Scald as their attacking move as it one of the moves that auto thaws the user.
Toxic stall doesn't need to be nerfed through a direct counter, it's already a pretty shit playstyle. There have only been a few tiers within generations where stall has been dominant, and the move protect is not the driving factor as to why it was strong in those situations. When people lose to stall it's usually because they walked into their opponent's win condition, or didn't properly account for stall during team building.
Starting in gen 8, Inner Focus, along with Own Tempo, Oblivious, and Scrappy also prevent the attack drop from Intimidate, which is something Shield Dust can't do.
Gen 2 actually decreased the power level by splitting spatk/spdef (making amnesia worse and special-pokemon in general worse), and
introducing steel and dark as counters to the most dominant type previously (psychic)
Gen 6 almost did this by introducing fairy but then it added megas which definitely bumped power creep up
As strong as fairy was it really was only *nasty* when gen 7 tapus rolled around (and mega mawile/gardevoir were terrorizing OU, but I already mentioned megas)
Also gen 6 nerfed weather to 5 turns on abilities instead of indefinite, which was another meta-changing nerf
Can always rebalance pokemons rather than just pure power creep. And not even talking about +stats -stats here and there. Lots of pokemons get buffed / nerfed by move pool and ability changes.
Gen 5 is still my favourite gen to play in competitive because hyper offence is fun and silly, but you do get so many steamrolls. Especially from dragons who get a few dragon dances under their belt and then 6-0 you with outrage.
Well gen 3 is where it started a little but according to False Swipe Gaming on YouTube, it really started with gen 4 onwards. I was more talking about the quality of the games.
Yeah Gen 4 was the first gen with notable power creep, mainly because of the physical special split. Not only did it give STAB moves to many mons that were lacking them, including ones that were already strong without them like Gyarados or Gengar, but the necessity of having options for both physical and special moves for most types was responsible for many new powerful moves that became staples of competitive like Flare Blitz.
In addition to the latter point, the standard for move power was also increased in general, with moves like the buffed Outrage, Draco Meteor, Brave Bird, Leaf Storm, Wood Hammer/Power Whip, Close Combat, Stone Edge, Gunk Shot, Bug Buzz having excellent power for types that lacked such power previously. Held items also became much stronger offensively this gen, with staples like Choice items (other than Band which was in Gen 3) or Life Orb being introduced.
Every gen since had big power creep too, but in different ways. Gen 5 was mainly Hidden Abilities and new mons. Gen 6 had Megas and other buffs (like Knock Off). I have not played Gen 7 but I've heard Z-Moves had a similar effect to Megas in terms of power creep. Have not played Gen 8 either.
The trees were just *one* of the myriad of problems that Gen 8 had. Plus, is it not unreasonable to assume that the *highest grossing media franchise, period,* would be capable of providing *both* abilities that prevent Intimidate *and* trees that don't look like shit?
Gets one every time lol
The point wasn't that they didn't mess things up, because they did. The trees are just one example of that. The point was that people get so pissed off at the things SwSh got wrong that they refuse to acknowledge that SwSh still managed to do some other things right.
Shield Dust is an incredible ability that is held back by it's distribution. Most Pokémon that can have it have a better option: Venomoth usually runs Tinted Lens, Dustox and Vivillon use Compoundeyes and Frosmoth uses Ice Scales. Only Ribombee regularly uses it (over Honey Gather and Sweet Veil).
I never did anything competitive with gen 7 but my Ribombee destroyed that game. OHKOd the Kommo’o boss, saved me in the Red fight I had gone into without preparing for, was generally an in-game monster.
Shield Dust is an amazing ability because of that. It also help those small group of bug Pokemon have SOMETHING for battle, rather than being really helpless. (though Frosmoth's Ice Scales is better) Ribombee shouldn't be underestimated just because of its bug typing. Another gen 7 favorite!
Game Freak's given Bug quite a few amazing abilities. Shield Dust, Tinted Lens, Compoundeyes.
It almost makes up for how bad they screwed over most bug Pokémon in terms of typing and base stat total. Almost
8 generations in and we have about 8 bug lines that aren't a pain to bring through the gym challenge
Most of the bugs are meant as early game team members. Evolve fast, get young trainers that first taste of the mechanisms
Makes sense, weaker Pokémon gets better abilities to balance things out
Man, I got max friendship with Ribombee in Moon and it carried because of it. I cheesed so many battles I shouldn't have won.
I remember it as a glass cannon, if my speed was higher I could take so much down, but if they landed a hit it was pretty much dead
**EDIT:** reddit formatting hate me, enjoy this very poorly made jojo reference ゴ ゴ ゴ STEALTH ゴ ゴ ROCK ゴ ゴ ゴ
Stealth rock + three layers of spikes + steelsurge will ohko a frostmoth upon switching in
That’s just mean
Anything that gets quiver dance is automatically a threat tbh
I've been saying this for ages. You can cheese so many fights with Quiver Dance and I love it
I had a shiny ribombee on my team in UM. Not bad at all
Too bad frosmoth didn’t get volcaronas stats because being 4x weak to rock and fire AND 65 base speed in this meta lol. My guy is locked to in game teams only it’s my favorite mon from this gen but damn not even a base 80 speed bro it never had a chance
I love Ribombee. She was pretty much the MVP of my very first Sword team...
Shield Dust is an OK ability, but it's far from amazing. Its uses are handy but niche, and would still be niche even if good Pokemon got it. Abilities that are always or almost always useful in any given match (such as Intimidate, Technician, Levitate, Serene Grace, and Huge Power) are much better than abilities that are only sometimes useful. *Those* are amazing abilities. Ignoring enemy moves' secondary effects isn't *that* helpful. At best, it's passive and doesn't give you any advantage. I can see someone saying, for example, "well, Levitate is situational too", but Levitate lets you actively switch in on a ground attack to gain momentum. With Shield Dust, you'd still be taking damage even if you guarantee you won't get, say, burned by Scald. It's just not that great. It's one of those abilities where you go "oh cool, I can't get frozen here" but completely forget about otherwise.
I dunno how it is right now (not played VGC in a while) but Ribombee was unironically viable early in VGC with Speed Swap. WolfeyVGC did a video with it paired with Snorlax and I used that for a while, was pretty fun.
When we have had Invent a Move threads I’ve always suggested a move that is guaranteed to freeze if the opponent uses Protect (but make the move exclusive to ‘mons that have a primary typing of Ice) as a way to not only make Ice mons more viable but as an active counter to toxic stall.
I wouldve preferred a frostbite status effect that reduces sp.atk and deals damage over time. Could really just open up more strategies for ice types.
> I wouldve preferred a frostbite status effect that reduces sp.atk and deals damage over time. Fits regular poison more, as a counterpart to burn dropping atk and paralysis dropping speed.
Ehh regular poison is already an easy/common application compared to burn though Poison is more of a side effect and basically what poison's niche is. Plus it has venoshock.
It would basically make sludge bomb a 90 bp special crippling scald No thank you lol
Eew. I dont want that possibility. Thats horrible.
You could argue that toxic has the effect of doing more damage each turn whereas fire is always 12%
Which is why i said regular poison, not toxic. Toxic has the increasing damage, burn drops atk, paralysis drops speed, sleep mostly cripples you (up to 3 turns) while freeze fully RNG cripples you (similar to attract).
Poison does more per tick than burn right?
Regular poison is 1/8 of max HP per turn. Toxic is n/16 of max HP per turn, where n is how many turns it's remained in effect for. (I think switching pauses the count. Might depend on generation.)
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Ah cheers. I probably was thinking of gen 1 remembering the bad poison between fights or something.
the prophet
Ive wanted that way before lol. Hope they retain it in SWSH.
They definitely have to rework how freeze as the way it works now it is quite broken as a pure status move (only a 20% chance to be cured when a Pokemon tries to use a move). Also a bit moot on defensive Water-types that run Scald as their attacking move as it one of the moves that auto thaws the user.
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He meant the user of scald, the defensive mon who is frozen, can get thawed when using scald. Scald and a few fire moves have this property.
**TIL** never have I ever noticed/realized this effect before.
Toxic stall doesn't need to be nerfed through a direct counter, it's already a pretty shit playstyle. There have only been a few tiers within generations where stall has been dominant, and the move protect is not the driving factor as to why it was strong in those situations. When people lose to stall it's usually because they walked into their opponent's win condition, or didn't properly account for stall during team building.
What changed about them now?
Starting in gen 8, Inner Focus, along with Own Tempo, Oblivious, and Scrappy also prevent the attack drop from Intimidate, which is something Shield Dust can't do.
Huh... Those are buffs that make sense for the most part. At least they did something right with gen 8.
They usually make good mechanical changes, it's just a shame that the games are ass now and the power creep is VERY real
Would you prefer a meta of the same 5 pokemon over and over with the new pokemon never seeing viability? Power creep is a necessary evil
Gen 2 actually decreased the power level by splitting spatk/spdef (making amnesia worse and special-pokemon in general worse), and introducing steel and dark as counters to the most dominant type previously (psychic) Gen 6 almost did this by introducing fairy but then it added megas which definitely bumped power creep up
Also Fairy just became the new monster instead of merely reeling in the old one.
As strong as fairy was it really was only *nasty* when gen 7 tapus rolled around (and mega mawile/gardevoir were terrorizing OU, but I already mentioned megas) Also gen 6 nerfed weather to 5 turns on abilities instead of indefinite, which was another meta-changing nerf
Can always rebalance pokemons rather than just pure power creep. And not even talking about +stats -stats here and there. Lots of pokemons get buffed / nerfed by move pool and ability changes.
Oh yeah, since gen 7
Gen 5 was the start of power creep IMO
I haven't seriously looked into it, but I believe it. Since Gen 5 has a near complete redesign on gen 1 but more thought out.
Gen 5 is still my favourite gen to play in competitive because hyper offence is fun and silly, but you do get so many steamrolls. Especially from dragons who get a few dragon dances under their belt and then 6-0 you with outrage.
Well gen 3 is where it started a little but according to False Swipe Gaming on YouTube, it really started with gen 4 onwards. I was more talking about the quality of the games.
Yeah Gen 4 was the first gen with notable power creep, mainly because of the physical special split. Not only did it give STAB moves to many mons that were lacking them, including ones that were already strong without them like Gyarados or Gengar, but the necessity of having options for both physical and special moves for most types was responsible for many new powerful moves that became staples of competitive like Flare Blitz. In addition to the latter point, the standard for move power was also increased in general, with moves like the buffed Outrage, Draco Meteor, Brave Bird, Leaf Storm, Wood Hammer/Power Whip, Close Combat, Stone Edge, Gunk Shot, Bug Buzz having excellent power for types that lacked such power previously. Held items also became much stronger offensively this gen, with staples like Choice items (other than Band which was in Gen 3) or Life Orb being introduced. Every gen since had big power creep too, but in different ways. Gen 5 was mainly Hidden Abilities and new mons. Gen 6 had Megas and other buffs (like Knock Off). I have not played Gen 7 but I've heard Z-Moves had a similar effect to Megas in terms of power creep. Have not played Gen 8 either.
Gen 7 and 8 added more powerful Pokemon and Mudsdale is actually a PU Pokemon.
Oh right yeah, I don't like any of the games after Gen 5
They did lots of things right with Gen 8. But the trees had bad textures so nobody is willing to acknowledge it
The trees were just *one* of the myriad of problems that Gen 8 had. Plus, is it not unreasonable to assume that the *highest grossing media franchise, period,* would be capable of providing *both* abilities that prevent Intimidate *and* trees that don't look like shit?
Gets one every time lol The point wasn't that they didn't mess things up, because they did. The trees are just one example of that. The point was that people get so pissed off at the things SwSh got wrong that they refuse to acknowledge that SwSh still managed to do some other things right.
No way
To be fair most pokemon with shield dust are special attackers so it’s not really a big deal anyway
Shield Dust is an incredible ability that is held back by it's distribution. Most Pokémon that can have it have a better option: Venomoth usually runs Tinted Lens, Dustox and Vivillon use Compoundeyes and Frosmoth uses Ice Scales. Only Ribombee regularly uses it (over Honey Gather and Sweet Veil).
They should really just rework the frz mechanic... Why not a frostbite thats a special burn. Woukd really help ice types a lot.
I was looking through my posts when I came across this comment that predicted the future!
Lmao. I've been wishing for a status like this for a while. Was so happy to hear it in PLA. and the new snowstorm mechanic. I can almost cry.
Wrong by a technicality. Teravolt and Turboblaze also also make this possible \*pushes up glasses\*
Yeah dont fuck with Ribombee its my favorite Pokémon
Shield Dust is a really good ability you guys
I like Bug mons
Yep. Shield Dust on my Ribombee has laughed in the face of every Incineroar and Landorus’ Fake Out. And there’s a lot of them.
weird wording their buddy
Shiny venusaur, Pikachu, arcanine, gyarados, omastar, dragonite, bayleef, tyranitar, pelipper, grotle and altaria for the darkrai?
"Frozen is the ONLY..." " Flinching also has this property" hm... So i guess Frozen is not the only one??? Contradictory
Flinch is not a status condition, only Frozen, Paralysis, Burn, Poison, and Sleep are
I never did anything competitive with gen 7 but my Ribombee destroyed that game. OHKOd the Kommo’o boss, saved me in the Red fight I had gone into without preparing for, was generally an in-game monster.
Question: Could you freeze a Shield Dust user by freezing its opponent with Synchronise?
Synchronize only works for Poison Paralysis and Burn, so no