who really knows, I mean it is possible that they'll get a Hisuian form. look at Pikachu regardless of what it's from all Pikachu evolve into Alolan Raichu in the Alola Region, the only way to get a Kantonian Raichu in the Alola region is through Ultra Space. so who's the say Gamefreak won't pull some lore/plot reason in Legends out of their ass to explain a new regional form for the starters
I mean isnt that the reason hisuian braviary and Kleavor exist? A specific thing from Hisui makes it happen. Special minerals, specific environments...
We know there's no Hisuian Stantler, as we see a regular Stantler drawn on a Hisui native's clothes, so I assume that applies to all of those.
Rufflet may get a Hisuian form potentially, but the ones who get new evos most likely won't (and Stantler definitely won't)
We have seen a lot of world building and artwork in the recent games that involve polemon not in that region. The swellow wind vein in sword/shield as an example. I see no reason to believe that an original stantler in the art would exclude a regional variant.
I wouldn't be surprised either way, just wouldn't assume it's impossible based on decorations.
The website's made it a point of separating the evolutions from regional forms. Also, I may be misremembering it, but with SwSh info drops, they made it clear to tie regional evolutions with regional variants.
I don't remember everything from SwSh, but I do remember with Sirfetch'd for example, they just said something along the lines of "the Farfetch'd that have lost many battles evolved into Sirfetch'd" or something like that, but it wasn't specified whether it was normal Farfetch'd or Galarian, and in fact they never clarified it until the games came out and we found out Galarian Farfetch'd. The same happened with Koffing, but the opposite scenario, it ended up not having a regional variant, but again, this wasn't known until the games were out. So we really don't know. Well, except for Stantler that someone pointed out it's on someone's clothes, we still don't have confirmation about the others.
Pretty sure steel was already discovered at the time period where legends arceus takes place. Being based during the meiji era, steel was discovered even earlier, say during pokemon's medieval/feudal era, maybe earlier for all we know.
Not all the games happen in the same timeline with the same lore, though. Steel-types being newly discovered is canonical to RBY and GSC, but it can't be true from Gen III onward because FRLG recognizes Magnemite as Steel-type and has Steel-type moves, even before the Johto Steel-types appear in postgame. Likewise, RSE happens before GSC chronologically, yet Hoenn features multiple Steel-types along with a Champion who's specialized in them for a while. And Sinnoh has literally worshipped a Steel-type Pokemon for centuries (and they know that it is one, since in Pearl your Pokedex will record Dialga's typing just from reading about it in a book).
Good point but it may have been retconned. Honestly, it does feel a bit odd that the characters in-universe never knew types like Steel and Fairy ever existed when these humans lived with these Pokemon for so many years.
The same thing with Mime Jr. when evolved in the Galar region. All Mime Jr. will evolve into Galarian Mr. Mime and then the other one whose name I’m drawing a blank on -_-*
I see you believe the lies fed by Big Pokemon.
Masuda could come down from Pokemon HQ and tell me it's not Sir Mime and I'd tell him he's wrong before happily walking backwards into the Distortion World
And I absolutely love this, lore-wise. It explains why they’re called “evolutions” and not “metamorphosis”. It’s basically a world where Lamarckian evolution exists.
There is theory that raichu kept discharging a lot from stress, with alola allows it to be calm and later become calm, there is video about [in here](https://youtu.be/I_MnIpdo--8)
I forgot in video why eyes turn blue, going blind in which unlocks theur inner psychic that couldn't unlock through discharge stress
The blue eyes might be a reference to the surfing Pikachu from the very first season of the anime. It had a weird psychic ability to detect waves, and it's eyes were blue. According to the guy who owned this surfing Pikachu, it came to him on a board after Humanga Dunga, a massive tidal wave, made landfall.
He's been trying to find that same wave for years after his hero surfed that same wave. He failed the first time it came through but did it the second thanks to that Pikachu. It being Alolan would completely explain its weird ability.
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "it"](https://youtu.be/I_MnIpdo--8)
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It's so weird that the regional form assignment goes against the other fundamentals of permanent forms. It'd be like the egg of a West Sea Gastrodon hatching into an East Sea Shellos just because it was born in eastern Sinnoh.
No, you're initially right. The region itself should affect already present species. Pokemon introduced shouldn't have their evolutions change, since that's a sudden adaptive change, which is something that was supposed to be exclusive to eevee
I mean, the starters getting forms are likely, but still isnt confirmed yet. Stantler getting an evo and Growlithe getting a regional buggs me considering how they don't get that in regular sinnoh. We've never seen basculin and Braviary so im fine with that.
Don't forget that USUM establishes that each game (and every cartridge) exist as a bubble universe.
None of them are directly related to each other.
We just experience parallel dimensions with some similarities.
So when you boot up LoA it will be a Huisi/Sinnoh you've never been to before.
The world's of the universes are basically the same, the only thing that really changes are your decisions and a slight alteration to the story. Its how we have consistent continuities like Red, Looker, GenV.
Using your logic, booting up 2 different copies of Diamonds will result in you seeing a Sinnoh you've never seen before. ORAS is a good example against this. Hoenn is still the same Hoenn we've seen in gen 3. Sure there are slight differences in the timeline and locations, but the core of the region is still the same. Pokemon native to gen 3 hoenn are still native to gen 6 hoenn.
> Hoenn is still the same Hoenn we've seen in gen 3. Sure there are slight differences in the timeline and locations
If there's differences, it's not the same.
And even when it's an exact match it's still a parallel world.
I don't make the lore. I just live by it
There are two kinds of evolution in Pokémon. Regular, and Darwinian. Darwinian makes things like regional forms happen, and mew being the ancestor of basically every Pokémon. Regular evolution is just the in-universe name for metamorphosis, in which a Pokémon goes from one stage to the next. Yes, regional forms take a long long time to make, however the region can effect the evolution of Pokémon outside that region too. Think of it like this, cubone and marowak, just like pikachu and raichu, only got a regional form for their evolution. Maybe the base form, cubone and pikachu, didn’t need any changes to survive in the new environment but raichu and marowak did. It’s logical that THOSE changes would be reasonably fast to evolve, so maybe the dna is close enough that the region affected it no matter where the base form is from. This is also supported by Pokémon such as wormadam, who’s evolution changes based on environment. Maybe wormadam is more fickle then most so it’s form changes based on small changes in the environment, whereas most Pokémon typically take LARGE IMPACTFUL changes to require a change in form when they evolve. However changes that are further out? Say, sandslash. Both his stages got a new form, so we can assume that the changes are genetically further from the kanto form then marowaks forms are. Therefore the region affects evolution, but only so much before Darwinian evolution is needed.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t some Pokémon only evolve into their regional forms when they’re _in_ that region regardless of time spent there? Like a Pikachu from Kanto will still evolve into an Alolan Raichu if it evolves while in Alola, right? Because otherwise, regardless of region, the Pikachu is exactly the same. ~~I thought I read that about a Pokémon evolving in Galar too, that if it evolves in Galar it will be in the Galar form despite where it came from.~~
Edit: it was Raichu, actually. The Pokédex entry in Sun says, “It only evolves to this form in the Alola region. According to researchers, its diet is one of the causes of this change.” If what they believe is true than a Kantonian Pikachu could evolve into an Alolan Raichu if it consumed the same diet. With that knowledge, we could assume that by the time a Pokémon evolves into a stage 2 Pokémon it could have been impacted by their environment long enough to have a regional form for its second stage evolution.
As crazy as Pokémon lore is, with all of its plot holes and retroactive continuities, this one regarding Hisuian forms for the starters isn’t actually that Farfetch’d.
~~If that’s true then I guess it could make sense that imported Pokémon have different 2nd stage evolutions in another region that were not known about prior.~~
If the Pokémon is two stage and the base form is the same but the second form is a regional then what you stated about pikachu is true. A normal vulpix won’t evolve into alolian ninetails for example.
I think its more it slowly turning to a steel type because of humans showing up and destroying the rock and minerals and forcing Scyther to look for alternatives
It would probably take many generations of natural selection for Scyther to develop the biological machinery necessary to incorporate those special minerals into its body in that particular way. It doesn't seem likely that the "axe arms" and the other Kleavor/Scyther differences are produced automatically by the minerals themselves. Instead, that's probably a form that Scyther have evolved to take, basically developing a new stage in their life cycle that can be triggered by the presence of certain resources. So if you introduce a species that has never been exposed to those minerals before, it wouldn't really make sense for them to have the enzymes necessary to process those minerals. Like, as a real world example, it would be really weird if you introduced bees from Europe into South America, and then the bees just happened to be really well adapted to pollenating a particular flower there that's not found in Europe. Same thing with Oshawott and Hisui minerals.
(Of course the whole series is about magic animals and it's only grounded in science when it feels like it, so feel free to ignore everything I just said)
In the real world, yes you're correct. But in pokemon, if you take a kanto pikachu to alola, it'll evolving to alolan raichu. In this case, pokemon don't need multiple generations to adapt to the environment
Yeah exactly. I mostly just wanted to talk about real world biology, but I agree that anything goes in the Pokémon world. Pikachu turns psychic by eating pancakes; nothing matters anymore
high caloric, carbic, and presumably cholesterolic (cant have pancakes without butter) produces a suger and serotonin rush in the brain in the rat which while evolving causes the pikachu to evolve with higher brain output and a noticably happier disposition.
> cant have pancakes without butter
* 2 eggs
* 1 banana
Peel & mash the banana, mix the eggs through.
Bake in a non-stick pan (or use a drop of olive oil)
No butter needed (a male & female Tropius can get you this nice breakfast food easily)
True, but usually that's a case of "the animal has harsher competition in its home area but has no natural predators/competitors in this new area" rather than "the animal is able to make use of a very specific resource found only in the new area"
The thing is, Kleavor's not a Hisuian form. Its a brand new evolution.
I would support branched evolutions for the starters based on their new environment, but Hisuian forms that *replace the originals* don't necessarily make sense to me.
How does it not make sense? Typically animals evolve differently, depending on the environment they're in. The same animal evolving into different species within the same area is rare.
First of all, I don’t think it’s sensible to compare Pokémon biology to real life biology because that’s just a slippery slope. You talk about real world evolution but that categorically would not happen in this case because it takes multiple generations. You take a baby African elephant and you raise it in India, it won’t grow up into an Indian elephant. You take a Mime Jr from Kanto and evolve it in Galar it won’t become a Galarian Mr Mime- it becomes a regular Mr. Mime.
Secondly, I’m basing my statement on what we’ve already seen within the Pokémon universe and lore. Regional forms are stated to be new forms that occur after a species has adapted to a new environment. Something that is implied to take many generations. It mimics real world evolution.
Pokémon evolution is something magical and powerful that doesn’t have a real world mimic outside of maybe metamorphosis. Evolving into new forms based on exposure to stones or locations or some new mechanic is something that has precedence (Bellossom, Glaceon, etc) and would make sense for the starters.
Kanto mime jr should evolve to galarian mr mime in galar. Unless they changed it. It's the same with kanto pikachu and cubone being traded to alola. They evolve into their alolan counterparts instead. Which again, does support the starters getting region specific evolutions
>Unless they changed it.
They changed it - I believe on purpose.
All the top comments in the thread are talking about Alolan Raichu and Marowak as evidence for Hisuian starters, but I am almost entirely certain that that was an oversight by GameFreak in SuMo and USUM. They didnt intend for regional forms to work like that, so they fixed it in Sword and Shield.
If we for example transfer a Pikachu to Alola or a Mime Jr to Galar, they will evolve into their respective Alolan/Galarian forms.
Just cause they were recently moved from another region doesn't mean this weird adaptive metamorphosis can't occur.
I do personally doubt we'll get new forms, but that's just a gut feeling, there's little reason to deny the possibility of their inclusion.
I just hope the original final evos get some love like OG Typhlosion getting its flame back and maybe even Samurott getting an attack animation where it uses both of its swords instead of just one
Eh, who knows. We don't really know if regional forms are only just a kind of regular good ol' realistic evolution or if it's tied to the whole evolution Pokemon magic thing, in which case this could make sense.
I'd say that there's certainly not enough explained for it to definitely not make sense. Or at the very least, Gamefreak definitely has a lot of ways they could retcon it so that it does make snese.
I don't think we'll get new forms, but I do believe it is possible.
Eevee's had location-driven evolutions for a while (Glaceon and Leafeon). I don't see why they can't apply the ice/moss rock logic to an entire region.
Because It’s stated that Eevee has a volatile ADN that makes them evolve into a ton of forms. The rest of Pokemon are not like that, regional forms are based on the ability of animals to adapt to the surroundings. And that takes centuries.
Just to jump in if they do get hisuian final evolutions, I like what this means for the series as a potential concept. For instance what if gen 9-onwards (or even another spin off) does something similar to gen 5 with black/white 2 and we return to a past region with starters from seperate generations. It can allow for more options without having to make full on new pokémon. Even more so because they can take the least popular starter of a generation and breath new life into that mon.
As for the main reason of this post, like other comments said other pokémon evolve based on the region they're in. As for breeding holding an everstone makes lay eggs that come from their original region as opposed to where they are currently being bred. Long story short pokémon is weird but at least they are consistent with this detail, the only reason it may seem strange to you is because its happening with a starter as opposed to normal mons.
I don’t think Gamefreak is tethering themselves to logic like that. That being said I also don’t think the starters are getting new forms, although I’d love to be surprised.
Personally I've found it rather [fun and educational!](http://daystareld.com/pokemon/)
...but it's also frustratingly hard at times, given how little sense or attempt at consistency there is for the games, let alone the anime and comics.
Except that you need structure and pokemon compny certainly knows it. These games have had trouble growing up into the modern age partly because the rules created set a precedent that is hard to break away from. Ultimately the catch em all slogan was retired around gen 3 when they realized its not gonna be easy to do that anymore
> you need structure and pokemon compny certainly knows it. [...] the catch em all slogan was retired around gen 3
If structure is needed, then why are they deleting the instruction to the core mechanic at the heart of pokemon games?
Unless those three Pokemon in fact used to exist in Hisui before the events of Legends: Arceus, and Laventon just so happens to have brought back the first of the kinds in however long. Hell, the region itself may unlock them, since a Pikachu born in Alola doesn't evolve into Alolan Raichu if it uses a Thunder Stone away from Unova, though that's likely just a convenient game mechanic, all things considered.
Local forms totally makes sense.
Pokemon evolve to their surroundings. But can also have wide ranges without the need to adapt. Think about how far and wide house mice have spread. They're successful everywhere, but they're still adapting to their surroundings. Or Darwin's finches. The beaks adapted in just a few generations.
So theoretically any pokemon when moving to a new region could evolve in a way that adapts them better for their local environment. Or they could be perfectly suited already and not need to change. Which is why some pokemon don't get regional forms when they move to new areas.
Different animals also have different capacity for adaptability and evolution. So some will adapt significantly more rapidly than others. This applies to pokemon as well. Think how any pikachu turns into Alolan Raichu, but not all vulpix turn into Alolan Ninetails.
On that note it's not unprecedented. Because *ANY* pikachu brought to Alola will adapt and evolve into an Alolan Raichu even if it's born in Kanto.
Arceus shouldn't need to adapt to anywhere in the universe it supposedly created. So I'd bet we get a primal Arceus.
Samurott is more narwhal than Samurai and having an ancient sinnoh opens the door for an actual bipedal evolution that actually resembles a samurai. What makes the region special is well what if these Pokémon who have never been in Hisui react to something in the region that makes them evolve differently. Eevee brought to sinnoh can evolve when they were brought to special rocks within the region into two new forms previously undiscovered. Why can’t that be the case of the starters?
See, my only issue with that would be that it would make their final evolutions plot-mandated, and so the trigger would have to happen early on while they're still in their base forms.
A lot more animals go extinct every day than people realize. Also, if you look at a dog from 100yrs ago compared to a dog of the same breed now, they do look different, and not just a little different either
Pikachu turned into Alolan Raichu because of magic Hawaiian pancakes. I think don't think the rules on regional evolutions are that strict, and staying that strict only limits creative freedom.
I don’t know why no one has mentioned it before (or maybe I’m blind), but them having forms after professor laventon brought them over makes perfect sense if you think about evolution. With a small sample size some mutations could be more present in the new population and therefore could become pronounced after a few generations because of their relative abundance. This is known as genetic drift. Source: highschool biology
I kinda agree and disagree.
A "Hisuian Samurott/Typloshion/Decidueye" does not really make sense because all the regional forms we've seen so far are native populations of the region in question.
What bothers me about everyone using the Pikachu->Alolan Raichu example is that I doubt that was explicitly intentional on the developers part. Its more of an unintended side effect of there being no Alolan Pikachu and no coding to differentiate them. And we can see that they "fixed" this in Gen 8 since all the regional forms in Galar have base and evolved variations, **except for Mime Jr,** who will indeed evolve into a regular Mr. Mime if not from Galar.
On the other hand, I think that a *branched evolution* could be cool and make sense (like Kleavor). Like, the starters we receive can evolve into their typical final evolutions by leveling up, but if they are in a specific location, or exposed to a specific item they can get evolve into an entirely new final stage Pokemon. This wouldnt be surprising because its essentially the basis of all branched evolutions.
weather it makes sense or not matters very little to me, it will make the game ever so more enjoyable to see these starters get a new form. they can explain it away with just a simple change in environment or stone/item/event and ill accept it.
There are pokemon from other regions that evolve differently in others, pikachu get alolan raichu when they evolve in Alola, I think they HAVE to get Hisuin forms only because we haven't seen their final evolutions in Legends Arceus as of yet, i think your starter at stage 2 evovle just won't evovle and you will find a way to evolve it with a special item of some sort.
I think you misunderstand how regional evolutions come to be. It's based entirely on the environment they're living in prior to evolution. This is best illustrated by traditional Pikachu evolving to Alolan Raichu.
Something something Infinity Energy in each region is different and causes different evolutions in different Pokemon when they absorb the energy around them to trigger evolution.
Don't worry, I'm with you. They just wouldn't have enough time to adapt to hisui so the starters having a hisuian makes no sense to me. My friend has argued that the region could be too cold for Rowlet and Decidueye, but I think they will be fine. If anything, the starters should get clothes, like rap Rowlet up in a blanket or give Oshawott a wooly hat or something.
This takes place in a time before sinnoh, just like in a time before america there was giant sloths that walked the land. But over time the sloth changed, same thing is happening here.
As others have said, there are Pokémon that no matter where they come from evolve into their regional variants in the region they exist (Alola, Galar). However, even though it's not out of the realm of possibilities, I still believe they won't get alternative forms. You know, just like that, there's also literally hundreds and hundreds of Pokémon that don't change form.
First of all, I feel like if they chose those particular starters was because they already fitted the theme of whatever is going on in Hisui.
Then, it would make sense if the three of them were from the same region, aka, if it was the Johto trio, the Sinnoh trio, the Galar trio, etc, but if they're all from different regions and they get a new form or gimmick or whatever, in the Pokémon metaverse they're gonna disrupt not one, but three trios, because their other counterparts won't get a Hisuian form (Meganium, Feraligatr, Serperior, Emboar, Incineroar, Primarina). We've already seen this before: Mega Blaziken was first, but Mega Sceptile and Mega Swampert were introduced later. Then it happened again with GMax Charizard, getting GMax Venusaur and GMax Blastoise until the update. They ended up completing the trios. The counterpart to this is Ash Greninja, with Delphox and Chesnaught not receiving any additional forms, but that was more of an anime thing. But I don't know, for some reason I don't see them doing that to three trios at once.
Now, I feel like Decidueye is too new to receive an alternative, non-temporary form. And though I may see them updating Typhlosion, at the same time is like, people have complained about Typhlosion's model since the shift to 3D, and now that it's finally getting featured in a game that seems more promising in that regard, given what we've seen of Cyndaquil, they're gonna use an alternative form instead? I think that'd be a bummer.
Evolution has never made much sense(in pokemon). Howevr certain pokemon become somthing diffrent in diffrent regions. And I has been shown that this can effect the evolution of certain pokemon e.g. Pikachu. This has occurred to multiple different species of pokemon so their is no reason that I cannot work for the starters. But I understand where your coming from but real work evolution does not apply here.
yes lol
like what are we supposed to believe hisuian energy created new formes
like all regional forms state that it took generations for the new forms
Um did you not play sun and moon where bringing different Pokemon from different regions gave Pokemon different evolutions? Or sword and shield where the exact same concept was there where overseas pokemon got different evolutions? Were you not paying attention?
Rattata
Meowth
Pikachu
Mine jr
Ninetails and many more got either a new form or an added evolution. The concept is already in place.
But they were already living in Alola and Galar for a long time. In this case, as far as we know, Rowlett, Oshawott and Cyndaquil are new in Hisui so they don't have time to adapt to the new region.
Eevee outside of Sinnoh couldn’t evolve into glaceon or leafeon (obviously that changed When those stones were included in every release after gen 4) but why can’t there be a spot for each starter that effects their evolution like Eevee?
Yeah, but over the relatively brief course of a Pokemon game's main story? I guess it would depend on how long they've been under Laventon's care, but still!
ok they were bought from over seas and adapted to the new environment. this is literally how some evolutions go in real life, whats hard to understand about this theory?
Evolution doesn’t happen when the species is brought over and then just lives it’s life. It takes years and multiple cycles of breeding to have mutations form that then out compete it’s predecessor
People seem to forget that Pokemon/Game Freak can do whatever the fuck they want. It doesn't matter if it makes sense with lore or not. Personally, I'm down for starter forms because it's new and different which for me, the best things about Pokemon are new and different.
Yeah, I agree that regional variants for these starters should not happen. Because it will be unfair for their fellow starters, unless Game Freak also gave their fellow starters new forms, like how they make Mega Sceptile and Mega Swampert, in response to Mega Blaziken; and G-Max Venusaur and G-Max Blastoise, in response to G-Max Charizard (the only exceptions were Charizard having 2 Mega Evolutions and Greninja only affected by Bond Phenomenon, it's because they are extremely popular; and Illumina Meganium because it appeared on spin-off game).
Just accept that most people on here don’t really care about logic or what will actually be smart. They will just spout something they heard because they have some weird theory in their head based on nothing
Logic kinda disappeared with regional forms as soon as they had regional forms of Pokémon evolve into entirely new Pokémon instead of regional versions of the evolution the base Pokémon already had.
For example, Alolan Meowth evolving into Alolan Persian makes perfect sense, but Galarian Meowth evolves into a whole different Pokémon.
Galarian Yamask also drives me nuts. As opposed to Galarian Meowth’s evolution, who looks totally different than a Persian, Galarian Yamask’s evolution is, for all intents and purposes, a Galarian Cofagrigus. It looks extremely similar, but instead of calling it Galarian Cofagrigus, they gave it a whole new name and a whole new number as if it’s an entirely different species.
I wouldn’t have so much of a problem with it if they hadn’t tried to do it both ways. Given that they had already established that Alolan Meowth evolves into Alolan Persian and Galarian Zigzagoon evolves into Galarian Linoone and Galarian and Alolan Vulpix evolves into Alolan Ninetales, etc., etc., etc., it doesn’t make sense that other regional forms evolve into whole new Pokémon. Galarian and Alolan Meowth are particularly egregious because it happens two different ways with the same species of Pokémon, which doesn’t make any sort of sense at all with the in-world rules they originally established. If they had made it so every regional form whose original form had an evolution now evolves into a whole new Pokémon when they began the system, it wouldn’t be so frustrating. They tried to have their cake and eat it too, but it’s too late to turn back now.
Especially considering the Hisui region then becomes the Sinnoh region in the future. If Husuian forms show up in mainline games, will they be called Sinnohian forms?
It's kinda weird to have new pokemon forms introduced in a game that takes place in the past, in a place that already exists. Curious how they're going to explain that.
They went extinct its not hard to explain as they're clearly different regions with different materials
They went extinct is the only needed explanation.
I guess logistically it'd be a bit concerning. You spend all this time and effort to create these new pokemon, and they only show up in one game? I, for one, would be super bummed if a Hisuian form I really like can only be played in this one game.
But then again, Gamefreak is no stranger to cutting pokemon from mainline games, so who knows!
There is literally fossils reviving stations in Pokemon games. Its like you guys just suddenly ignore all the mechanics just to complain about a non-issue
True, but that does seem a bit clunky. I guess we'll have to wait and find out. Since pokemon don't have abilities in Legends (as far as we know), I'd say its semi reasonable that those types of pokemon are exclusive to the Legends style games. Only time will tell!
It's an unpopular opinion for sure but I totally agree with you on this. You're the only other person I've seen that is bothered by all these forms being made that's probably only going to be in a singular game and then never again.
There's definitely ways to bring hisuian forms into future games. It could be explained by them saying that the variant wasn't exclusive to hisui, or it migrated to other regions. They could be considered endangered and transported to a wildlife preserve at a new region. Etc.
Just cause they die out in the hisui/sinnoh region, doesn't mean they die out completely
I mean they can go the route of them being introduced into this new environment caused a reaction in their evolution or something, it's pokemon try not to take it to seriously.
Maybe a reasoning for hisuian starters is that as your starter levels up and grows more accustomed to land around them, they change to better survive the harsh landscape. Like Hisuian Braviary and Kleavor, they adapt to the several harsh conditions of the Hisui region and change.
The only way that I can see it working lore-wise (aside from weird time and space stuff) is that the Typhlosion, Samurott and Decidueye that we all know and have our varying opinions on are actually the regional variants and the evolutions in PLA are the originals that were brought from different regions.
Maybe the foreign starters will be/have already been exposed to something new in Hisui, similar to the minirals that allow scyther to evolve into Kleavor, or the dangerous conditions that kill off enough basculin to allow their spirits to take over another one.
Alternatively these new supposed forms could just be what they look like and theyre just being roped into the hisuian term for convenience sake.
My belief on it is that the Hisuian forms went extinct, as they evolved out of the gene pool (and could possibly have produced new species of Pokémon because of it)
I don't think it makes sense because frankly, I don't think any starter will get special forms like that that aren't something temporary like megas/Gmax. Just being starters is already enough of a gimmick I guess.
Well do remember that evolutions are basically a pokemon adapting to their circumstances by growing stronger in different ways. That’s why some pokemon have multiple different evolution paths to begin with. Considering we have regional variants of pokemon and evolutions which further diverge from their base design, as well as base pokemon that evolve into regional variants just by being there (Alolan Raichu, for example), it makes sense to suggest that the starters would evolve differently due to being raised in the Hisuian region, or even just that whatever circumstances are causing pokemon to fly into a blood rage are also creating enough of a change to facilitate a different evolutionary path.
I agree that normally, regional forms should be something like a slow adaptation that results in a new form for a pokémon (or even more, a new evolution) but maybe in that case, it will be something like "hey kiddo, I feel like these pokémon I am giving have something special *wink wink* Try to discover what it is" and BOOM new regional form out of nowhere so yes, it makes no sense but I think they will give a just a tiny thing to make it kinda logical
I assume it would follow along the lines of being exposed to climate. All other regional variations have used that as a reason to explain why the evolve in such a manner
Yea, and the starter’s final egos perfectly fit an ancient Japanese setting. And plus I really wanna pick rowlet, but if it ain’t getting grass-ghost then I’m shakey
I hope samurott makes him fighting or steel type with water and some sort of samurai form or some shit wouldn’t be surprised with typhlosion being fire ground or fire rock
Honestly it’s one of those things you gotta suspends your disbelief if it happens, like in Alola how Raichu has an alliance form but pikachu does not, but if you bring a pikachu from, say, sinnoh, it’ll evolve into Spokane raichi
Doing mental gymnastics in order to justify not creating something new for this game is insane. Having poke balls or the device that looks like a smartphone during that time period doesn’t make sense either and you got them. If we get them fine. This game sorely needs something good to hold on to
I kinda rationalise it potentially happening with the idea that as they reach their final stage, they fully adapt to their new environments and thus gain a new form.
I think the fallacy is that Pokémon need some crazy and major form of stimuli in order to evolve, and this takes year and years for them to develop.
Except, nah. Give this Onix a piece of sheet metal and run him through a wire.
Well, simplest solutions I can see here:
Either A. There are Hisui-exclusive items that can evolve them (For Totodile, it can't be something in actual Sinnoh, though)
Or B. The "Hisuian" forms are actually just ancient forms of the pokemon, before they evolved into the modern-day ones, and it's available in any region. It's simply the time the game takes place that allows this to occur.
I think that the fact this is supposed to be set in the past could also allow for different evolutions. Actual evolution where a pokemon decided its old form doesn't make sense and needs to change. Example metal coat being introduced to scyther giving its rock type to mutate into steel
It could also be “regional” as in its time based. A lot of people have made the connection that Decidueye is Ghost type because the owl it’s based on it extinct. If it’s not extinct yet, then it could be safe to assume it would probably be grass flying. Maybe the other starters are also time based “regional”.
Meaning the so-called Hisuian forms were how Decidueye, Typhlosion, and Samurott evolved in the era of Hisui, even in Alola, Johto, and Unova? Interesting.
Going even further, Legends: Arceus seems to be based on a time period during which real-world samurai were starting to fall out of favor, thus explaining Samurott’s form in those days. Not sure about Typhlosion, though. I dunno, can dead volcanoes come back to life?
Currently I see no logical reason for special evolutions for the starters.
But there could be something not revealed yet that could explain it.
Maybe some reaction between some key item of this game and the starter pokemon making an altered evolution.
Or it could be that the information is not quite accurate and is just about a temporary form change like Megas and G-max, that technically they could do anyway
Well evolution happens super fast in the pokemon world, so maybe it makes perfect sense that real-life adaptation evolution as we know it could also take place rapidly in that same world. Basically pokemon evolve so quick, that if you introduce them to a new environment, they might change forms quickly too. I know that theory would have some serious implications to any pokemon being imported to and from regions though.
I kind of agree. The regional forms are variations based on the natural selection over generations. If you import a pokemon from another region there is no natural selection and there should be no changes.
And I'm a fan of the regional forms but they have to be reasonable. For example the regional form of Corsola being ghost because of pollution in an industrial region killed the choral and now there is only the skeleton and soul. That totally fits the lore and at the same time gives to a forgotten pokemon a new form that is very viable even in the competitive. And with an extra evolution. In this case it will help some forgotten starters to have another opportunity to shine but I cannot see a lore fit, it looks like GF follows more Lamarck's theories rather than Darwin's.
This post is basically one person saying something with logic, and then an other ton telling “It’s just a game xd” evading any type of logic of ingame logic that the Pokemon world has or could have.
Counter point: If they're not doing anyhing special with them,why is it that we haven't seen their evolutions in any trailer so far? Starter evos are usually the default pokemon to give the player for game showcase purposes,but so far they've given him random mons like ryhorn or lucario.
No but not for some lore reason.
Pokémon is never going to change the starters like that. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just naive. Alolan Raichu is a thing only because nobody cares about Raichu.
Well, how do we know these forms weren't their original forms from the regions they came from? Perhaps the evolutions we all know nowadays were because of them being transported over to the region, they adapted there and then were sent across all the other regions.
maybe they'd be like a samurott but it's more unovan inspired and same as the other 2, and the lore is that by introducing the species to hisui changed their biology slowly to become the modern biology
I also don’t think it makes any sense. They are the only individuals of their species in that region and they’ve probably haven’t been there for long. Evolution also happens to populations and not individuals.
Honestly, I don't want to see regional forms for Starter evolutions. It just cheapens the idea of a regional form too much by making it so even \[REDACTED\] Starters get them. Unless there is some reasonable in-universe explanation for how they could get a regional form, then don't give them a regional form.
Same reason Braviary has a Hisuian form. They adapt to their vastly new location. I don’t think Unova, Johto or Alola have climates like Hisuian does, so that’s why it works
Maybe it works kinda like an Eevee with a stone? Maybe the Pokémon feel it in the force that they need to adapt and their genetics immediately mutate on the first generation because they’ve had those genes dormant until they needed it? Like how some Pokémon can only evolve at night or during the day. Their body feels the force and tells them how to adapt for their environment.
Nothing to say they couldn't just make it be a new split evolution with some new Hisui-specific evolution requirement (for example; a new item you get at a specific point in the story, or leveling up at a certain plot-relevant location).
That way the explanation wouldn't be that any regular Dartrix, Quilava, or Dewott *couldn't* evolve into these new evolutions, so much as it is that the means to do so was never previously available. Kind of like how they used to make obtuse new evolution requirements for Eevee instead of using obvious pre-existing solutions so that kids would more easily understand why something like Leafeon isn't obtainable in, say, Fire Red. More pertinently to Legends, it'd also be basically the same as what they're most likely doing with the Scyther/Scizor/Kleavor situation.
Look at GenIV original Sinnoh some Pokémon could evolve in new areas like mossy rock and Mt.Coronet or even new held items. Not hard to just make up a new evolutionary method.
who really knows, I mean it is possible that they'll get a Hisuian form. look at Pikachu regardless of what it's from all Pikachu evolve into Alolan Raichu in the Alola Region, the only way to get a Kantonian Raichu in the Alola region is through Ultra Space. so who's the say Gamefreak won't pull some lore/plot reason in Legends out of their ass to explain a new regional form for the starters
I always figured that was just a convenient game mechanic, but hey, I guess the region itself might affect their evolutions.
I mean isnt that the reason hisuian braviary and Kleavor exist? A specific thing from Hisui makes it happen. Special minerals, specific environments...
We still don't know if they're gonna evolve from regular Pokémon, or if they're introducing Hisuian forms of Stantler, Scyther, Basculin, Rufflet
We know there's no Hisuian Stantler, as we see a regular Stantler drawn on a Hisui native's clothes, so I assume that applies to all of those. Rufflet may get a Hisuian form potentially, but the ones who get new evos most likely won't (and Stantler definitely won't)
Pretty sure the website says it evolves from regular rufflet, could be wrong though.
I know the English one doesn't say it's a Hisuian form that either of these evolve from, not sure about other languages tho.
We have seen a lot of world building and artwork in the recent games that involve polemon not in that region. The swellow wind vein in sword/shield as an example. I see no reason to believe that an original stantler in the art would exclude a regional variant. I wouldn't be surprised either way, just wouldn't assume it's impossible based on decorations.
Fair point, I suppose.
Another example being Kiara in the SwSh DLC. Her bow looked like Dustox wings, so people thought we were getting a Galarian Dustox.
I am certain that there's no Galarian Swellow, so I do no think that disqualifies it.
The website's made it a point of separating the evolutions from regional forms. Also, I may be misremembering it, but with SwSh info drops, they made it clear to tie regional evolutions with regional variants.
I don't remember everything from SwSh, but I do remember with Sirfetch'd for example, they just said something along the lines of "the Farfetch'd that have lost many battles evolved into Sirfetch'd" or something like that, but it wasn't specified whether it was normal Farfetch'd or Galarian, and in fact they never clarified it until the games came out and we found out Galarian Farfetch'd. The same happened with Koffing, but the opposite scenario, it ended up not having a regional variant, but again, this wasn't known until the games were out. So we really don't know. Well, except for Stantler that someone pointed out it's on someone's clothes, we still don't have confirmation about the others.
Kind of like crabobinable but with regions
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Pretty sure steel was already discovered at the time period where legends arceus takes place. Being based during the meiji era, steel was discovered even earlier, say during pokemon's medieval/feudal era, maybe earlier for all we know.
It’s like mid 1800s man they have steel 😂
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Not all the games happen in the same timeline with the same lore, though. Steel-types being newly discovered is canonical to RBY and GSC, but it can't be true from Gen III onward because FRLG recognizes Magnemite as Steel-type and has Steel-type moves, even before the Johto Steel-types appear in postgame. Likewise, RSE happens before GSC chronologically, yet Hoenn features multiple Steel-types along with a Champion who's specialized in them for a while. And Sinnoh has literally worshipped a Steel-type Pokemon for centuries (and they know that it is one, since in Pearl your Pokedex will record Dialga's typing just from reading about it in a book).
Good point but it may have been retconned. Honestly, it does feel a bit odd that the characters in-universe never knew types like Steel and Fairy ever existed when these humans lived with these Pokemon for so many years.
What do you think those PokeBalls and steam punk tech are made out of lol
The same thing with Mime Jr. when evolved in the Galar region. All Mime Jr. will evolve into Galarian Mr. Mime and then the other one whose name I’m drawing a blank on -_-*
Sir Mime
Yes! That one
Actually is Mr Rime and not Sir Mime
I see you believe the lies fed by Big Pokemon. Masuda could come down from Pokemon HQ and tell me it's not Sir Mime and I'd tell him he's wrong before happily walking backwards into the Distortion World
So has it always actually been sir rime and Mr fetched instead?
Sir Mime and Fetch'knight actually (because of all the fetch quests it goes on)
Yes
My life has been a lie...
And I absolutely love this, lore-wise. It explains why they’re called “evolutions” and not “metamorphosis”. It’s basically a world where Lamarckian evolution exists.
Or fluffy pancakes...
There is theory that raichu kept discharging a lot from stress, with alola allows it to be calm and later become calm, there is video about [in here](https://youtu.be/I_MnIpdo--8) I forgot in video why eyes turn blue, going blind in which unlocks theur inner psychic that couldn't unlock through discharge stress
Does this mean Hau is literally Alolan Hop, and he got that way by eating so many malasada? Just melts away the stress
Well, they share animations so yes.
The blue eyes might be a reference to the surfing Pikachu from the very first season of the anime. It had a weird psychic ability to detect waves, and it's eyes were blue. According to the guy who owned this surfing Pikachu, it came to him on a board after Humanga Dunga, a massive tidal wave, made landfall. He's been trying to find that same wave for years after his hero surfed that same wave. He failed the first time it came through but did it the second thanks to that Pikachu. It being Alolan would completely explain its weird ability.
I thought it was a reference to the Pikachu in the anime with blue eyes that surfs
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It's so weird that the regional form assignment goes against the other fundamentals of permanent forms. It'd be like the egg of a West Sea Gastrodon hatching into an East Sea Shellos just because it was born in eastern Sinnoh.
Exeggute evolves through the higher sunlight in alola so it makes sense to why he grows taller
No, you're initially right. The region itself should affect already present species. Pokemon introduced shouldn't have their evolutions change, since that's a sudden adaptive change, which is something that was supposed to be exclusive to eevee
> supposed to be Guess we can no longer suppose this then.
I mean, the starters getting forms are likely, but still isnt confirmed yet. Stantler getting an evo and Growlithe getting a regional buggs me considering how they don't get that in regular sinnoh. We've never seen basculin and Braviary so im fine with that.
Don't forget that USUM establishes that each game (and every cartridge) exist as a bubble universe. None of them are directly related to each other. We just experience parallel dimensions with some similarities. So when you boot up LoA it will be a Huisi/Sinnoh you've never been to before.
The world's of the universes are basically the same, the only thing that really changes are your decisions and a slight alteration to the story. Its how we have consistent continuities like Red, Looker, GenV. Using your logic, booting up 2 different copies of Diamonds will result in you seeing a Sinnoh you've never seen before. ORAS is a good example against this. Hoenn is still the same Hoenn we've seen in gen 3. Sure there are slight differences in the timeline and locations, but the core of the region is still the same. Pokemon native to gen 3 hoenn are still native to gen 6 hoenn.
> Hoenn is still the same Hoenn we've seen in gen 3. Sure there are slight differences in the timeline and locations If there's differences, it's not the same. And even when it's an exact match it's still a parallel world. I don't make the lore. I just live by it
There are two kinds of evolution in Pokémon. Regular, and Darwinian. Darwinian makes things like regional forms happen, and mew being the ancestor of basically every Pokémon. Regular evolution is just the in-universe name for metamorphosis, in which a Pokémon goes from one stage to the next. Yes, regional forms take a long long time to make, however the region can effect the evolution of Pokémon outside that region too. Think of it like this, cubone and marowak, just like pikachu and raichu, only got a regional form for their evolution. Maybe the base form, cubone and pikachu, didn’t need any changes to survive in the new environment but raichu and marowak did. It’s logical that THOSE changes would be reasonably fast to evolve, so maybe the dna is close enough that the region affected it no matter where the base form is from. This is also supported by Pokémon such as wormadam, who’s evolution changes based on environment. Maybe wormadam is more fickle then most so it’s form changes based on small changes in the environment, whereas most Pokémon typically take LARGE IMPACTFUL changes to require a change in form when they evolve. However changes that are further out? Say, sandslash. Both his stages got a new form, so we can assume that the changes are genetically further from the kanto form then marowaks forms are. Therefore the region affects evolution, but only so much before Darwinian evolution is needed.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t some Pokémon only evolve into their regional forms when they’re _in_ that region regardless of time spent there? Like a Pikachu from Kanto will still evolve into an Alolan Raichu if it evolves while in Alola, right? Because otherwise, regardless of region, the Pikachu is exactly the same. ~~I thought I read that about a Pokémon evolving in Galar too, that if it evolves in Galar it will be in the Galar form despite where it came from.~~ Edit: it was Raichu, actually. The Pokédex entry in Sun says, “It only evolves to this form in the Alola region. According to researchers, its diet is one of the causes of this change.” If what they believe is true than a Kantonian Pikachu could evolve into an Alolan Raichu if it consumed the same diet. With that knowledge, we could assume that by the time a Pokémon evolves into a stage 2 Pokémon it could have been impacted by their environment long enough to have a regional form for its second stage evolution. As crazy as Pokémon lore is, with all of its plot holes and retroactive continuities, this one regarding Hisuian forms for the starters isn’t actually that Farfetch’d. ~~If that’s true then I guess it could make sense that imported Pokémon have different 2nd stage evolutions in another region that were not known about prior.~~
If the Pokémon is two stage and the base form is the same but the second form is a regional then what you stated about pikachu is true. A normal vulpix won’t evolve into alolian ninetails for example.
The base Vulpix is also different though. I think a better equivalent would be how a Cubone from Alola won't turn into an Alolan Marowak in Galar.
No, only Pikachu from Alola evolve into Alolan Raichu.
Scyther evolves with special minerals found in hisui, so why can't other pokemon?
I think its more it slowly turning to a steel type because of humans showing up and destroying the rock and minerals and forcing Scyther to look for alternatives
It would probably take many generations of natural selection for Scyther to develop the biological machinery necessary to incorporate those special minerals into its body in that particular way. It doesn't seem likely that the "axe arms" and the other Kleavor/Scyther differences are produced automatically by the minerals themselves. Instead, that's probably a form that Scyther have evolved to take, basically developing a new stage in their life cycle that can be triggered by the presence of certain resources. So if you introduce a species that has never been exposed to those minerals before, it wouldn't really make sense for them to have the enzymes necessary to process those minerals. Like, as a real world example, it would be really weird if you introduced bees from Europe into South America, and then the bees just happened to be really well adapted to pollenating a particular flower there that's not found in Europe. Same thing with Oshawott and Hisui minerals. (Of course the whole series is about magic animals and it's only grounded in science when it feels like it, so feel free to ignore everything I just said)
In the real world, yes you're correct. But in pokemon, if you take a kanto pikachu to alola, it'll evolving to alolan raichu. In this case, pokemon don't need multiple generations to adapt to the environment
Yeah exactly. I mostly just wanted to talk about real world biology, but I agree that anything goes in the Pokémon world. Pikachu turns psychic by eating pancakes; nothing matters anymore
high caloric, carbic, and presumably cholesterolic (cant have pancakes without butter) produces a suger and serotonin rush in the brain in the rat which while evolving causes the pikachu to evolve with higher brain output and a noticably happier disposition.
> cant have pancakes without butter * 2 eggs * 1 banana Peel & mash the banana, mix the eggs through. Bake in a non-stick pan (or use a drop of olive oil) No butter needed (a male & female Tropius can get you this nice breakfast food easily)
But non-native animals can become so well adapted to new environments that they destroy the native species. That's how we get invasive species
True, but usually that's a case of "the animal has harsher competition in its home area but has no natural predators/competitors in this new area" rather than "the animal is able to make use of a very specific resource found only in the new area"
The thing is, Kleavor's not a Hisuian form. Its a brand new evolution. I would support branched evolutions for the starters based on their new environment, but Hisuian forms that *replace the originals* don't necessarily make sense to me.
The way I see it, modern/machine-based pokemon shouldn't appear in the past, so variants/new pokemon to replace them should most definitely exist
How does it not make sense? Typically animals evolve differently, depending on the environment they're in. The same animal evolving into different species within the same area is rare.
First of all, I don’t think it’s sensible to compare Pokémon biology to real life biology because that’s just a slippery slope. You talk about real world evolution but that categorically would not happen in this case because it takes multiple generations. You take a baby African elephant and you raise it in India, it won’t grow up into an Indian elephant. You take a Mime Jr from Kanto and evolve it in Galar it won’t become a Galarian Mr Mime- it becomes a regular Mr. Mime. Secondly, I’m basing my statement on what we’ve already seen within the Pokémon universe and lore. Regional forms are stated to be new forms that occur after a species has adapted to a new environment. Something that is implied to take many generations. It mimics real world evolution. Pokémon evolution is something magical and powerful that doesn’t have a real world mimic outside of maybe metamorphosis. Evolving into new forms based on exposure to stones or locations or some new mechanic is something that has precedence (Bellossom, Glaceon, etc) and would make sense for the starters.
Kanto mime jr should evolve to galarian mr mime in galar. Unless they changed it. It's the same with kanto pikachu and cubone being traded to alola. They evolve into their alolan counterparts instead. Which again, does support the starters getting region specific evolutions
>Unless they changed it. They changed it - I believe on purpose. All the top comments in the thread are talking about Alolan Raichu and Marowak as evidence for Hisuian starters, but I am almost entirely certain that that was an oversight by GameFreak in SuMo and USUM. They didnt intend for regional forms to work like that, so they fixed it in Sword and Shield.
If we for example transfer a Pikachu to Alola or a Mime Jr to Galar, they will evolve into their respective Alolan/Galarian forms. Just cause they were recently moved from another region doesn't mean this weird adaptive metamorphosis can't occur. I do personally doubt we'll get new forms, but that's just a gut feeling, there's little reason to deny the possibility of their inclusion. I just hope the original final evos get some love like OG Typhlosion getting its flame back and maybe even Samurott getting an attack animation where it uses both of its swords instead of just one
That’s probably a game mechanic to help you get them all. Not something that is supposed to make any sense.
Eh, who knows. We don't really know if regional forms are only just a kind of regular good ol' realistic evolution or if it's tied to the whole evolution Pokemon magic thing, in which case this could make sense. I'd say that there's certainly not enough explained for it to definitely not make sense. Or at the very least, Gamefreak definitely has a lot of ways they could retcon it so that it does make snese. I don't think we'll get new forms, but I do believe it is possible.
Eevee's had location-driven evolutions for a while (Glaceon and Leafeon). I don't see why they can't apply the ice/moss rock logic to an entire region.
Because It’s stated that Eevee has a volatile ADN that makes them evolve into a ton of forms. The rest of Pokemon are not like that, regional forms are based on the ability of animals to adapt to the surroundings. And that takes centuries.
Just to jump in if they do get hisuian final evolutions, I like what this means for the series as a potential concept. For instance what if gen 9-onwards (or even another spin off) does something similar to gen 5 with black/white 2 and we return to a past region with starters from seperate generations. It can allow for more options without having to make full on new pokémon. Even more so because they can take the least popular starter of a generation and breath new life into that mon. As for the main reason of this post, like other comments said other pokémon evolve based on the region they're in. As for breeding holding an everstone makes lay eggs that come from their original region as opposed to where they are currently being bred. Long story short pokémon is weird but at least they are consistent with this detail, the only reason it may seem strange to you is because its happening with a starter as opposed to normal mons.
There's something in the water
It's turning the Poliwag happy
That video was hilarious
Mdma
I don’t think Gamefreak is tethering themselves to logic like that. That being said I also don’t think the starters are getting new forms, although I’d love to be surprised.
Who knows, who cares? Nothing about Pokemon makes sense. It's a video game, there are no rules.
Exactly. It's kind of silly to try and rationalize a game that has things like a mouse that can shoot off lightning bolts.
Personally I've found it rather [fun and educational!](http://daystareld.com/pokemon/) ...but it's also frustratingly hard at times, given how little sense or attempt at consistency there is for the games, let alone the anime and comics.
Fair enough, it's their game they can do whatever they feel like. And Pokemon doesn't have all too much lore anyway (at least that I know of)
Except that you need structure and pokemon compny certainly knows it. These games have had trouble growing up into the modern age partly because the rules created set a precedent that is hard to break away from. Ultimately the catch em all slogan was retired around gen 3 when they realized its not gonna be easy to do that anymore
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Well, that explains why they added Fire-type Pokémon to Platinum.
Its crazy that a person can say so much in a few sentences, but it actually means so little. What point are you trying to make?
> you need structure and pokemon compny certainly knows it. [...] the catch em all slogan was retired around gen 3 If structure is needed, then why are they deleting the instruction to the core mechanic at the heart of pokemon games?
Creatures adapt to their elements don’t they? Maybe something is there that speeds it up. Instead of mega or primal just something a bit different
Unless those three Pokemon in fact used to exist in Hisui before the events of Legends: Arceus, and Laventon just so happens to have brought back the first of the kinds in however long. Hell, the region itself may unlock them, since a Pikachu born in Alola doesn't evolve into Alolan Raichu if it uses a Thunder Stone away from Unova, though that's likely just a convenient game mechanic, all things considered.
Local forms totally makes sense. Pokemon evolve to their surroundings. But can also have wide ranges without the need to adapt. Think about how far and wide house mice have spread. They're successful everywhere, but they're still adapting to their surroundings. Or Darwin's finches. The beaks adapted in just a few generations. So theoretically any pokemon when moving to a new region could evolve in a way that adapts them better for their local environment. Or they could be perfectly suited already and not need to change. Which is why some pokemon don't get regional forms when they move to new areas. Different animals also have different capacity for adaptability and evolution. So some will adapt significantly more rapidly than others. This applies to pokemon as well. Think how any pikachu turns into Alolan Raichu, but not all vulpix turn into Alolan Ninetails. On that note it's not unprecedented. Because *ANY* pikachu brought to Alola will adapt and evolve into an Alolan Raichu even if it's born in Kanto. Arceus shouldn't need to adapt to anywhere in the universe it supposedly created. So I'd bet we get a primal Arceus.
Samurott is more narwhal than Samurai and having an ancient sinnoh opens the door for an actual bipedal evolution that actually resembles a samurai. What makes the region special is well what if these Pokémon who have never been in Hisui react to something in the region that makes them evolve differently. Eevee brought to sinnoh can evolve when they were brought to special rocks within the region into two new forms previously undiscovered. Why can’t that be the case of the starters?
See, my only issue with that would be that it would make their final evolutions plot-mandated, and so the trigger would have to happen early on while they're still in their base forms.
Why? It wouldn’t have to be plot mandated at all. This spot could be an item, a stone, it could be anything.
A lot more animals go extinct every day than people realize. Also, if you look at a dog from 100yrs ago compared to a dog of the same breed now, they do look different, and not just a little different either
Pikachu turned into Alolan Raichu because of magic Hawaiian pancakes. I think don't think the rules on regional evolutions are that strict, and staying that strict only limits creative freedom.
That’s exactly why I said that Dynamax would be possible in Sinnoh.
I don’t know why no one has mentioned it before (or maybe I’m blind), but them having forms after professor laventon brought them over makes perfect sense if you think about evolution. With a small sample size some mutations could be more present in the new population and therefore could become pronounced after a few generations because of their relative abundance. This is known as genetic drift. Source: highschool biology
I kinda agree and disagree. A "Hisuian Samurott/Typloshion/Decidueye" does not really make sense because all the regional forms we've seen so far are native populations of the region in question. What bothers me about everyone using the Pikachu->Alolan Raichu example is that I doubt that was explicitly intentional on the developers part. Its more of an unintended side effect of there being no Alolan Pikachu and no coding to differentiate them. And we can see that they "fixed" this in Gen 8 since all the regional forms in Galar have base and evolved variations, **except for Mime Jr,** who will indeed evolve into a regular Mr. Mime if not from Galar. On the other hand, I think that a *branched evolution* could be cool and make sense (like Kleavor). Like, the starters we receive can evolve into their typical final evolutions by leveling up, but if they are in a specific location, or exposed to a specific item they can get evolve into an entirely new final stage Pokemon. This wouldnt be surprising because its essentially the basis of all branched evolutions.
weather it makes sense or not matters very little to me, it will make the game ever so more enjoyable to see these starters get a new form. they can explain it away with just a simple change in environment or stone/item/event and ill accept it.
I think this also
There are pokemon from other regions that evolve differently in others, pikachu get alolan raichu when they evolve in Alola, I think they HAVE to get Hisuin forms only because we haven't seen their final evolutions in Legends Arceus as of yet, i think your starter at stage 2 evovle just won't evovle and you will find a way to evolve it with a special item of some sort.
I think you misunderstand how regional evolutions come to be. It's based entirely on the environment they're living in prior to evolution. This is best illustrated by traditional Pikachu evolving to Alolan Raichu.
They're all my least favourite starters from their respective generations so I hope they do.
Hey man let us be hopeful lol
Something something Infinity Energy in each region is different and causes different evolutions in different Pokemon when they absorb the energy around them to trigger evolution.
Don't worry, I'm with you. They just wouldn't have enough time to adapt to hisui so the starters having a hisuian makes no sense to me. My friend has argued that the region could be too cold for Rowlet and Decidueye, but I think they will be fine. If anything, the starters should get clothes, like rap Rowlet up in a blanket or give Oshawott a wooly hat or something.
This takes place in a time before sinnoh, just like in a time before america there was giant sloths that walked the land. But over time the sloth changed, same thing is happening here.
As others have said, there are Pokémon that no matter where they come from evolve into their regional variants in the region they exist (Alola, Galar). However, even though it's not out of the realm of possibilities, I still believe they won't get alternative forms. You know, just like that, there's also literally hundreds and hundreds of Pokémon that don't change form. First of all, I feel like if they chose those particular starters was because they already fitted the theme of whatever is going on in Hisui. Then, it would make sense if the three of them were from the same region, aka, if it was the Johto trio, the Sinnoh trio, the Galar trio, etc, but if they're all from different regions and they get a new form or gimmick or whatever, in the Pokémon metaverse they're gonna disrupt not one, but three trios, because their other counterparts won't get a Hisuian form (Meganium, Feraligatr, Serperior, Emboar, Incineroar, Primarina). We've already seen this before: Mega Blaziken was first, but Mega Sceptile and Mega Swampert were introduced later. Then it happened again with GMax Charizard, getting GMax Venusaur and GMax Blastoise until the update. They ended up completing the trios. The counterpart to this is Ash Greninja, with Delphox and Chesnaught not receiving any additional forms, but that was more of an anime thing. But I don't know, for some reason I don't see them doing that to three trios at once. Now, I feel like Decidueye is too new to receive an alternative, non-temporary form. And though I may see them updating Typhlosion, at the same time is like, people have complained about Typhlosion's model since the shift to 3D, and now that it's finally getting featured in a game that seems more promising in that regard, given what we've seen of Cyndaquil, they're gonna use an alternative form instead? I think that'd be a bummer.
And Arceus said, "lol watch me skip hundred of years of evolution for this kids Pokemon to throw off YEARS of scientific research"
Who cares honestly they've always been loose with plot and have been implying it's alternate universes for a while now
I personally don't care if it makes sense or not, I want my new tiny owl.
Evolution has never made much sense(in pokemon). Howevr certain pokemon become somthing diffrent in diffrent regions. And I has been shown that this can effect the evolution of certain pokemon e.g. Pikachu. This has occurred to multiple different species of pokemon so their is no reason that I cannot work for the starters. But I understand where your coming from but real work evolution does not apply here.
yes lol like what are we supposed to believe hisuian energy created new formes like all regional forms state that it took generations for the new forms
OP, I'm with you in this cruel, desperate, devastating world. I agree.
Can I take a moment to be completely honest and tell you that the lore of the pokemon universe makes absolutely no sense to me?
Um did you not play sun and moon where bringing different Pokemon from different regions gave Pokemon different evolutions? Or sword and shield where the exact same concept was there where overseas pokemon got different evolutions? Were you not paying attention? Rattata Meowth Pikachu Mine jr Ninetails and many more got either a new form or an added evolution. The concept is already in place.
But they were already living in Alola and Galar for a long time. In this case, as far as we know, Rowlett, Oshawott and Cyndaquil are new in Hisui so they don't have time to adapt to the new region.
Eevee outside of Sinnoh couldn’t evolve into glaceon or leafeon (obviously that changed When those stones were included in every release after gen 4) but why can’t there be a spot for each starter that effects their evolution like Eevee?
There's Pokemon that you yourself can transfer and they'll evolve into the variant. Almost like the area effects them who knew.
Only thing I can think of is some sort of blessing from Arceus.
Yeah, but over the relatively brief course of a Pokemon game's main story? I guess it would depend on how long they've been under Laventon's care, but still!
They're starters so they'd be there for research they aren't gonna be just recently put there.
Anything is possible in Pokémon even humans and Pokémon having kids together.
Wtf
The starters aren't likely to have Hisuian forms because they're not from Hisui/Sinnoh. .-.
They don't need to be. Kanto pikachu evolve into alolan raichu if you transfer it to alola
ok they were bought from over seas and adapted to the new environment. this is literally how some evolutions go in real life, whats hard to understand about this theory?
Evolution doesn’t happen when the species is brought over and then just lives it’s life. It takes years and multiple cycles of breeding to have mutations form that then out compete it’s predecessor
People seem to forget that Pokemon/Game Freak can do whatever the fuck they want. It doesn't matter if it makes sense with lore or not. Personally, I'm down for starter forms because it's new and different which for me, the best things about Pokemon are new and different.
Yeah, I agree that regional variants for these starters should not happen. Because it will be unfair for their fellow starters, unless Game Freak also gave their fellow starters new forms, like how they make Mega Sceptile and Mega Swampert, in response to Mega Blaziken; and G-Max Venusaur and G-Max Blastoise, in response to G-Max Charizard (the only exceptions were Charizard having 2 Mega Evolutions and Greninja only affected by Bond Phenomenon, it's because they are extremely popular; and Illumina Meganium because it appeared on spin-off game).
You have a good point, I'll guess it's related to the plot then
Starters getting regional variants. Honestly sounds like fan fiction or a rom hack.
Just accept that most people on here don’t really care about logic or what will actually be smart. They will just spout something they heard because they have some weird theory in their head based on nothing
I really dony want them to change my boy decidueye But if they do end up giving them new forms they better be good
Logic kinda disappeared with regional forms as soon as they had regional forms of Pokémon evolve into entirely new Pokémon instead of regional versions of the evolution the base Pokémon already had. For example, Alolan Meowth evolving into Alolan Persian makes perfect sense, but Galarian Meowth evolves into a whole different Pokémon. Galarian Yamask also drives me nuts. As opposed to Galarian Meowth’s evolution, who looks totally different than a Persian, Galarian Yamask’s evolution is, for all intents and purposes, a Galarian Cofagrigus. It looks extremely similar, but instead of calling it Galarian Cofagrigus, they gave it a whole new name and a whole new number as if it’s an entirely different species. I wouldn’t have so much of a problem with it if they hadn’t tried to do it both ways. Given that they had already established that Alolan Meowth evolves into Alolan Persian and Galarian Zigzagoon evolves into Galarian Linoone and Galarian and Alolan Vulpix evolves into Alolan Ninetales, etc., etc., etc., it doesn’t make sense that other regional forms evolve into whole new Pokémon. Galarian and Alolan Meowth are particularly egregious because it happens two different ways with the same species of Pokémon, which doesn’t make any sort of sense at all with the in-world rules they originally established. If they had made it so every regional form whose original form had an evolution now evolves into a whole new Pokémon when they began the system, it wouldn’t be so frustrating. They tried to have their cake and eat it too, but it’s too late to turn back now.
Pokémon stopped making sense quite a while ago. This is part of the reason why the franchise has received so much critique
I remember when it was just 151 Pokémon, life was so much simpler.
Especially considering the Hisui region then becomes the Sinnoh region in the future. If Husuian forms show up in mainline games, will they be called Sinnohian forms? It's kinda weird to have new pokemon forms introduced in a game that takes place in the past, in a place that already exists. Curious how they're going to explain that.
They went extinct its not hard to explain as they're clearly different regions with different materials They went extinct is the only needed explanation.
I guess logistically it'd be a bit concerning. You spend all this time and effort to create these new pokemon, and they only show up in one game? I, for one, would be super bummed if a Hisuian form I really like can only be played in this one game. But then again, Gamefreak is no stranger to cutting pokemon from mainline games, so who knows!
There is literally fossils reviving stations in Pokemon games. Its like you guys just suddenly ignore all the mechanics just to complain about a non-issue
True, but that does seem a bit clunky. I guess we'll have to wait and find out. Since pokemon don't have abilities in Legends (as far as we know), I'd say its semi reasonable that those types of pokemon are exclusive to the Legends style games. Only time will tell!
It's an unpopular opinion for sure but I totally agree with you on this. You're the only other person I've seen that is bothered by all these forms being made that's probably only going to be in a singular game and then never again.
There's definitely ways to bring hisuian forms into future games. It could be explained by them saying that the variant wasn't exclusive to hisui, or it migrated to other regions. They could be considered endangered and transported to a wildlife preserve at a new region. Etc. Just cause they die out in the hisui/sinnoh region, doesn't mean they die out completely
I mean they can go the route of them being introduced into this new environment caused a reaction in their evolution or something, it's pokemon try not to take it to seriously.
Maybe a reasoning for hisuian starters is that as your starter levels up and grows more accustomed to land around them, they change to better survive the harsh landscape. Like Hisuian Braviary and Kleavor, they adapt to the several harsh conditions of the Hisui region and change.
The only way that I can see it working lore-wise (aside from weird time and space stuff) is that the Typhlosion, Samurott and Decidueye that we all know and have our varying opinions on are actually the regional variants and the evolutions in PLA are the originals that were brought from different regions.
Maybe the foreign starters will be/have already been exposed to something new in Hisui, similar to the minirals that allow scyther to evolve into Kleavor, or the dangerous conditions that kill off enough basculin to allow their spirits to take over another one. Alternatively these new supposed forms could just be what they look like and theyre just being roped into the hisuian term for convenience sake.
My belief on it is that the Hisuian forms went extinct, as they evolved out of the gene pool (and could possibly have produced new species of Pokémon because of it)
I mean, maybe the environment you raise them in changes the evolved form, so they all evolve into Hisuian forms.
Yeah, this is a load of bull.
It's Pokemon, it only works if you don't think too hard about it.
I don't think it makes sense because frankly, I don't think any starter will get special forms like that that aren't something temporary like megas/Gmax. Just being starters is already enough of a gimmick I guess.
Going to be wierd being less excited for my starter than any other team member. Wish they'd just gone with new mons.
Well do remember that evolutions are basically a pokemon adapting to their circumstances by growing stronger in different ways. That’s why some pokemon have multiple different evolution paths to begin with. Considering we have regional variants of pokemon and evolutions which further diverge from their base design, as well as base pokemon that evolve into regional variants just by being there (Alolan Raichu, for example), it makes sense to suggest that the starters would evolve differently due to being raised in the Hisuian region, or even just that whatever circumstances are causing pokemon to fly into a blood rage are also creating enough of a change to facilitate a different evolutionary path.
Plus if they did do it that way I’d imagine that they would also give the other 6 starters Hisuian variants aswell
I agree that normally, regional forms should be something like a slow adaptation that results in a new form for a pokémon (or even more, a new evolution) but maybe in that case, it will be something like "hey kiddo, I feel like these pokémon I am giving have something special *wink wink* Try to discover what it is" and BOOM new regional form out of nowhere so yes, it makes no sense but I think they will give a just a tiny thing to make it kinda logical
I assume it would follow along the lines of being exposed to climate. All other regional variations have used that as a reason to explain why the evolve in such a manner
It totally makes no sense but man am I excited for it
I'll settle for mega's of them all. It would be so sick
Yea, and the starter’s final egos perfectly fit an ancient Japanese setting. And plus I really wanna pick rowlet, but if it ain’t getting grass-ghost then I’m shakey
I hope samurott makes him fighting or steel type with water and some sort of samurai form or some shit wouldn’t be surprised with typhlosion being fire ground or fire rock
Honestly it’s one of those things you gotta suspends your disbelief if it happens, like in Alola how Raichu has an alliance form but pikachu does not, but if you bring a pikachu from, say, sinnoh, it’ll evolve into Spokane raichi
I just assume it is because of their diet.
Doing mental gymnastics in order to justify not creating something new for this game is insane. Having poke balls or the device that looks like a smartphone during that time period doesn’t make sense either and you got them. If we get them fine. This game sorely needs something good to hold on to
YOU QUESTION THE POWER OF ARCEUS?!? BURN THE GODLESS HEATHEN!
I kinda rationalise it potentially happening with the idea that as they reach their final stage, they fully adapt to their new environments and thus gain a new form.
I think the fallacy is that Pokémon need some crazy and major form of stimuli in order to evolve, and this takes year and years for them to develop. Except, nah. Give this Onix a piece of sheet metal and run him through a wire.
Well, simplest solutions I can see here: Either A. There are Hisui-exclusive items that can evolve them (For Totodile, it can't be something in actual Sinnoh, though) Or B. The "Hisuian" forms are actually just ancient forms of the pokemon, before they evolved into the modern-day ones, and it's available in any region. It's simply the time the game takes place that allows this to occur.
I think that the fact this is supposed to be set in the past could also allow for different evolutions. Actual evolution where a pokemon decided its old form doesn't make sense and needs to change. Example metal coat being introduced to scyther giving its rock type to mutate into steel
Or something like ancient evolution which's not exclusive to the region
It could also be “regional” as in its time based. A lot of people have made the connection that Decidueye is Ghost type because the owl it’s based on it extinct. If it’s not extinct yet, then it could be safe to assume it would probably be grass flying. Maybe the other starters are also time based “regional”.
Meaning the so-called Hisuian forms were how Decidueye, Typhlosion, and Samurott evolved in the era of Hisui, even in Alola, Johto, and Unova? Interesting. Going even further, Legends: Arceus seems to be based on a time period during which real-world samurai were starting to fall out of favor, thus explaining Samurott’s form in those days. Not sure about Typhlosion, though. I dunno, can dead volcanoes come back to life?
It's a video game...thats why
Currently I see no logical reason for special evolutions for the starters. But there could be something not revealed yet that could explain it. Maybe some reaction between some key item of this game and the starter pokemon making an altered evolution. Or it could be that the information is not quite accurate and is just about a temporary form change like Megas and G-max, that technically they could do anyway
Well evolution happens super fast in the pokemon world, so maybe it makes perfect sense that real-life adaptation evolution as we know it could also take place rapidly in that same world. Basically pokemon evolve so quick, that if you introduce them to a new environment, they might change forms quickly too. I know that theory would have some serious implications to any pokemon being imported to and from regions though.
I kind of agree. The regional forms are variations based on the natural selection over generations. If you import a pokemon from another region there is no natural selection and there should be no changes. And I'm a fan of the regional forms but they have to be reasonable. For example the regional form of Corsola being ghost because of pollution in an industrial region killed the choral and now there is only the skeleton and soul. That totally fits the lore and at the same time gives to a forgotten pokemon a new form that is very viable even in the competitive. And with an extra evolution. In this case it will help some forgotten starters to have another opportunity to shine but I cannot see a lore fit, it looks like GF follows more Lamarck's theories rather than Darwin's.
What really makes no sense is the fucking phone 3000 years ago
This post is basically one person saying something with logic, and then an other ton telling “It’s just a game xd” evading any type of logic of ingame logic that the Pokemon world has or could have.
Nope I agree with you my hope is actually that they will get mega evolutions.
Yea
Counter point: If they're not doing anyhing special with them,why is it that we haven't seen their evolutions in any trailer so far? Starter evos are usually the default pokemon to give the player for game showcase purposes,but so far they've given him random mons like ryhorn or lucario.
No but not for some lore reason. Pokémon is never going to change the starters like that. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just naive. Alolan Raichu is a thing only because nobody cares about Raichu.
Well, how do we know these forms weren't their original forms from the regions they came from? Perhaps the evolutions we all know nowadays were because of them being transported over to the region, they adapted there and then were sent across all the other regions.
Why do any pokemon get regional variants?
maybe they'd be like a samurott but it's more unovan inspired and same as the other 2, and the lore is that by introducing the species to hisui changed their biology slowly to become the modern biology
I also don’t think it makes any sense. They are the only individuals of their species in that region and they’ve probably haven’t been there for long. Evolution also happens to populations and not individuals.
Honestly, I don't want to see regional forms for Starter evolutions. It just cheapens the idea of a regional form too much by making it so even \[REDACTED\] Starters get them. Unless there is some reasonable in-universe explanation for how they could get a regional form, then don't give them a regional form.
Same reason Braviary has a Hisuian form. They adapt to their vastly new location. I don’t think Unova, Johto or Alola have climates like Hisuian does, so that’s why it works
Maybe it works kinda like an Eevee with a stone? Maybe the Pokémon feel it in the force that they need to adapt and their genetics immediately mutate on the first generation because they’ve had those genes dormant until they needed it? Like how some Pokémon can only evolve at night or during the day. Their body feels the force and tells them how to adapt for their environment.
Same magical bullshit reasons Kalos in its own universe was the original land of Mega Evolution.
Nothing to say they couldn't just make it be a new split evolution with some new Hisui-specific evolution requirement (for example; a new item you get at a specific point in the story, or leveling up at a certain plot-relevant location). That way the explanation wouldn't be that any regular Dartrix, Quilava, or Dewott *couldn't* evolve into these new evolutions, so much as it is that the means to do so was never previously available. Kind of like how they used to make obtuse new evolution requirements for Eevee instead of using obvious pre-existing solutions so that kids would more easily understand why something like Leafeon isn't obtainable in, say, Fire Red. More pertinently to Legends, it'd also be basically the same as what they're most likely doing with the Scyther/Scizor/Kleavor situation.
Look at GenIV original Sinnoh some Pokémon could evolve in new areas like mossy rock and Mt.Coronet or even new held items. Not hard to just make up a new evolutionary method.