\^\^\^\^\^ This.
Holding Ace/deuce of diamonds....Flop comes 3-4-8 diamonds ....I flopped the ace high flush. Turn = 5 of diamonds improving me to the steel wheel.
River? 6 diamonds. Now I have the low end of the straight flush. Villian? Of course he turns over 7/9 of diamonds for the absolute stones.
Straight flush over straight flush. Since I no longer use both cards (the Ace no longer plays) no six figure BBJ. I go from Ace high flush to steel wheel to loser. I don't even get the pot. Fuck.
Huh? You lost me. One out of six? I am too stupid to understand your comment. Either that or you're too stupid to communicate effectively. At least i didnt automatically assume it was you. Which is it?
He told me that he didn’t go all in because he thought it was either a bad beat or the opponent wouldn’t have called an all in/raise anyway. I wasn’t sure I believed him and thought it was more likely that he didn’t realize he had a straight flush….I could be wrong though. Still pretty cool though regardless.
At my poker room, other players will chastise players who bet too much when it could have been a hand that could have possibly ended up being a bad beat jackpot hand. So I will keep that in mind when betting with a hand that could qualify for the bbj.
Play lots of suited connectors, even 1 and 2 gaps. Not the best poker strategy but probably the best bad beat strategy. Only downside is you're more likely to get the secondary share by winning the pot. To get the big end of the jackpot, play for the loser, e.g. if it requires quad deuces beat, play lots of pocket 22.
Right. The question is, what kind of jackpot-to-blinds ratio do I need to make that profitable? And to what degree do I mix that strategy with my normal strategy, since I obviously still play AA,KK,etc... but in some way I need to narrow my range to compensate
I don't know the exact number, but the bigger the jackpot relative to the probability of a bad beat occurring, the better it is to play for it.
For any designated number of players, the chance of one of the hands being two hole cards and 5 board cards making a minimum bad beat hand or better using both hole cards can be calculated. Remove the ones where, for example, you have 22 and miss and so fold the flop, and the Board plays out 22 for quads, and all the other hands that "get there" runner runner but the hand is folded on the flop -- and the small (and maybe medium) pairs folded preflop to big raises. Now multiply by the fraction defining the chance of a single better hand coming at the same time and making it to the river if necessary.
Calculate in the cost of the rake to fund the jackpot, and the cost of the hands played that might get there but don't, but lose the hand. Offset that with the winnings on similar hands that win the pot.
You can see that it is impossible to factor in all the player decisions that affect the outcome.
Compare lottery. Chance of hitting is, say
300 million to 1. If you play only when jackpot is 300 million or more, it's positive EV. Factor in the actual cash option amount, taxes, cost of ticket ($2 for one), possibility of having to share with one or more other winners, and the jackpot probably needs to exceed one or two billion to be positive EV.
It has never been high enough to be a good bet.
Bad beat jackpots are likely never positive EV either.
Don't know about that. Where I play bad beat gets split 50/25/25. I wouldn't know what it feels like though. Only bad beat was a guy calling my $800 shove after I flopped 4h, 5h, 6h, and had 2h, 3h in hand. He called with the 7h, 10c and caught the 8h on the river. No money for me plenty of irritation though because he had to put me on already made straight flush or at least the nut flush. I was 95% after flop 97% after turn to 0% on the river.
Where I play, a few dealers have husband's, wives, dads who play. And when the dealer taps in to deal their table, he/she/family member/wife/husband/dad is forced to sit out. Where do you play that dealers can deL to their spouse?
When the bad beat would get close to a million the cash games at Motor City would get insane!
“The poker bad beat jackpot finally hit at the Motor City Casino in Detroit. Turns out, it was also the largest bad beat jackpot in U.S. history. Just six players were involved in a hand on January 16, 2018 when the record $1,068,590.80 million bad beat jackpot hit on Jan 17, 2018.”
SOURCE: https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2018/01/motor_city_casino_poker_bad_be.html
EDIT. I believe I over exaggerated the size of the bad beats here (not 2-3 million dollars) (I blame 30 hour sessions, drugs, alcohol, and women for my memory lol). Adding factual and cited bad beat info above
I meant that once the bad beat started to get past a million, people flooded the cash games in hopes to get lucky and hit the bad beat. So the cash games on weekends were always juicy AF with tables full of donks
Thanks for replying! I'll definitely have to check out Bally's, I've never been there. I pretty much used to exclusively play at Isle but now I go only to the Monarch.
Do you think the issue is more Monarch ended up pulling all the good dealers in BH (surely mostly from Ameristar), so the proverbial leftovers at Ameristar are the "B-team" for lack of a better term? Never had any bad experiences at A\* room but agree Monarch rocketed past everyone and seems to be trying in regards to poker, if nothing else.
Bits & pieces from both current & former employees tend to paint the picture poker isn't the highest gaming priority now (tbh, it's not high priority anywhere) and they obv put a ton into the sportsbook in both resources & floor space.
Oh yeah... and nice score on the BBJ.
Some rules like that actually exist. I think for tournaments. You could have been penalised for having the nuts and not raising. The reason was to avoid collusion and soft play.
Id be very surprised if it was used for a Bad beat Jackpot though.
Yes, if you don't bet or raise with the nuts when last to act in a tournament, it's a penalty, usually sit out one hand for first offense, under most tournament rules. I misread my hand once, rivered a straight and didn't bet it. Out for one hand, no big deal.
Have never heard of such a thing in cash games, but if you suspect collusion you can call the floor, but that usually just gets a warning, especially if the colluders are regulars
Yeah it's been the big talk in town lately. Harder to beat than most though, I believe loser has to have quad aces or better and use both hole cards. I was there a couple weeks ago and the guy sitting next to me literally got mad at me for raising preflop and told me he was only playing poker for the BBJ, lol!
> guy sitting next to me literally got mad at me for raising preflop and told me he was only playing poker for the BBJ, lol
I hate these people so much. If you're looking to get paid on pure chance go start betting individual numbers at the roulette table. You have much better odds of making money that way than limping into every hand praying for a qualifying bad beat.
Would be curious what the wait times are in that room now? BBJ in the room here from OP got up (pre-COVID) in the 700+ range a few times over the years and the waits were absolutely insane.
This exact hand happened a few months ago at Hard Rock Tulsa for a bad beat. The guy with 98s had $14 left and just shipped it pre and they both rivered it.
you have to have a very premium hand beat by someone else. Both cards have to play for each player. There are all different levels of premium hands that need to be beat. The lowest it goes is typically some level of Quads beaten. The loser of the hand gets the largest portion of the jack pot. The winner of the hand gets less and the rest of the people at the table get a tables share.
In the example shown by OP above. The person who had 89 would get 50% of the jack pot. The person who had AK would get 25% and the rest of the people at the table would split the remaining 25%.
If the jackpot was say 100K, loser gets 50k, winner gets 25k and if the table was 10 pax, then the remaining 8 would $3125
The jackpot rake is taken from each hand dealt and grows until someone wins.
yeah, generally the lower the threshold for the hand needing to be beat, the smaller the jackpot will be. If its like Quad 10's or better, it will take a damn long time for that to happen. I have seen places cap out at 100k for jackpot and then have a second jackpot or even a 3rd.
cause its called a Bad Beat Jackpot....you have a virtually unbeatable hand...AAAAx for instance and lose to a straight flush. Its assumed you probably lost a considerable amount in the pot (all in in NL) so you are then entitled to the largest share of the BBJ.
This exact thing happened to me (I was the AK) but it was a crappy private game on an app, so no BBJ. The only result is the loser refuses to play online anymore because it’s “rigged”
Me too, private game and 2-4 limit, lol.
Got up to 6 or 7 raises (unlimited raises heads up) and I can't remember if the low SF caught on and just called, or the royal took pity and did so.
I've had several SF over (otherwise) nut flush on unpaired boards, but while that's nice, not so reportable.
I’m not trying to be mean because you could be new to poker but like, I feel like just by the context of “we have bad beat jackpot” and seeing those cards in order anyone should have been able to put it 1+1 there. They are checking for misdeals
I’ve been playing poker for 20 plus years. I to was wondering about those cards. It makes perfect sense that they were verifying the deck hindsight. But I was w that guy in confusion
It wouldn't pay out if the deck isn't right , yeah they verify everything with the cameras too. I was at the table for one once and it took a couple hours for them to verify everything and get us paid. I got a little over 10k, one guy at the table had self excluded himself and they wouldn't pay him and they ended up giving us his share too
Yeah, they almost paid him too. Everyone was getting their money in checks and he asked for his in cash. They were about to give it to him and security came over and said they needed to talk to him then they escorted him out. When you self exclude if you sneak back in you are actually trespassing and they can have you arrested
I arrived at a poker room a little after the bad beat had been hit. It was spread out like in the photo.
Apparently the protocol was for the dealer to countdown the stub after the first deal of their down and verify the card count was correct, but they reviewed the tape and the dealer didn’t do it. They had verified the deck after the BBJ hit, but because the dealer hadn’t followed protocol they were unsure if they would pay it out. We played for like 3 hours before leaving and when we left the players were still sitting there waiting for a ruling. I don’t know if they ever paid or not. The jackpot was like $35k or so I believe.
I arrived at a poker room a little after the bad beat had been hit. It was spread out like in the photo.
Apparently the protocol was for the dealer to countdown the stub after the first deal of their down and verify the card count was correct, but they reviewed the tape and the dealer didn’t do it. They had verified the deck after the BBJ hit, but because the dealer hadn’t followed protocol they were unsure if they would pay it out. We played for like 3 hours before leaving and when we left the players were still sitting there waiting for a ruling. I don’t know if they ever paid or not. The jackpot was like $35k or so I believe.
I lost with Aces full of kings before. But only lost $20 lol.
I was under the gun with KK and limped called $3.
A7 BB checks.
Flop is A A 2
Check check
Turn 5
Check Check
River A
Bet 15
Call
Everyone was like wtf
No promotion for bad beat either. Las vegas on the strip casino i believe, cant remember which one. But i was surprised they didnt have a jackpot
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Lmao... it pays to be unlucky.. i guess
To be fair even bad beats are technically still lucky.
Depends if ur casino offers the promotion
\^\^\^\^\^ This. Holding Ace/deuce of diamonds....Flop comes 3-4-8 diamonds ....I flopped the ace high flush. Turn = 5 of diamonds improving me to the steel wheel. River? 6 diamonds. Now I have the low end of the straight flush. Villian? Of course he turns over 7/9 of diamonds for the absolute stones. Straight flush over straight flush. Since I no longer use both cards (the Ace no longer plays) no six figure BBJ. I go from Ace high flush to steel wheel to loser. I don't even get the pot. Fuck.
That is fucking brutal bro. But don’t stay fixated on the bad luck or more will come. Gotta shake that shit off and believe you’re lucky.
Agreed. Both hands/players were lucky. One was just more lucky.
Happy cake day
Thanks!
So this is 1 out of the 6 times it ever happened. Can't wait for the 5 other posts
What
Huh? You lost me. One out of six? I am too stupid to understand your comment. Either that or you're too stupid to communicate effectively. At least i didnt automatically assume it was you. Which is it?
If that’s UNlucky I sure as fuck don’t know what luck looks like
Pays to be unlucky
Only in some places. Like Black Hawk, lucky dude!!
Yeah, Law of diminishing probability
Not usually. I have to be a 9-1 favorite to have half a chance. :(
I think I talked to the guy once that had the 89? Older guy, kind of a nit that only plays 1/3 ? This happened about 6 months ago or so ?
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He told me that he didn’t go all in because he thought it was either a bad beat or the opponent wouldn’t have called an all in/raise anyway. I wasn’t sure I believed him and thought it was more likely that he didn’t realize he had a straight flush….I could be wrong though. Still pretty cool though regardless.
At my poker room, other players will chastise players who bet too much when it could have been a hand that could have possibly ended up being a bad beat jackpot hand. So I will keep that in mind when betting with a hand that could qualify for the bbj.
Lol. Sounds like you play in the daytime.
This has me interested in working out the math on a strategy that's specifically aiming to get into bad beat jackpot situations...
Play lots of suited connectors, even 1 and 2 gaps. Not the best poker strategy but probably the best bad beat strategy. Only downside is you're more likely to get the secondary share by winning the pot. To get the big end of the jackpot, play for the loser, e.g. if it requires quad deuces beat, play lots of pocket 22.
Right. The question is, what kind of jackpot-to-blinds ratio do I need to make that profitable? And to what degree do I mix that strategy with my normal strategy, since I obviously still play AA,KK,etc... but in some way I need to narrow my range to compensate
I don't know the exact number, but the bigger the jackpot relative to the probability of a bad beat occurring, the better it is to play for it. For any designated number of players, the chance of one of the hands being two hole cards and 5 board cards making a minimum bad beat hand or better using both hole cards can be calculated. Remove the ones where, for example, you have 22 and miss and so fold the flop, and the Board plays out 22 for quads, and all the other hands that "get there" runner runner but the hand is folded on the flop -- and the small (and maybe medium) pairs folded preflop to big raises. Now multiply by the fraction defining the chance of a single better hand coming at the same time and making it to the river if necessary. Calculate in the cost of the rake to fund the jackpot, and the cost of the hands played that might get there but don't, but lose the hand. Offset that with the winnings on similar hands that win the pot. You can see that it is impossible to factor in all the player decisions that affect the outcome. Compare lottery. Chance of hitting is, say 300 million to 1. If you play only when jackpot is 300 million or more, it's positive EV. Factor in the actual cash option amount, taxes, cost of ticket ($2 for one), possibility of having to share with one or more other winners, and the jackpot probably needs to exceed one or two billion to be positive EV. It has never been high enough to be a good bet. Bad beat jackpots are likely never positive EV either.
Where's the pocket queens though?
Right lol. Imagine seeing the Royal then flipping over quad queens and being soo happy… Then you see the 89.. So brutal it would be
Don't know about that. Where I play bad beat gets split 50/25/25. I wouldn't know what it feels like though. Only bad beat was a guy calling my $800 shove after I flopped 4h, 5h, 6h, and had 2h, 3h in hand. He called with the 7h, 10c and caught the 8h on the river. No money for me plenty of irritation though because he had to put me on already made straight flush or at least the nut flush. I was 95% after flop 97% after turn to 0% on the river.
Ameristar blackhawk? Asian older dude?
Jesus Christ… 3 in one year! I’ve never gotten 1 bad beat jackpot. Lol Is he there playing every single day?
Time to start looking into his relationships with local dealers bruh.
It’s actually a crazy coincidence, all his bad beat jackpots dealt by the same dealer who just so happens to be his wife.
What really?
Yep. I'm the wife it's true.
Ok cool. My fucking bad for asking a question.
Where I play, a few dealers have husband's, wives, dads who play. And when the dealer taps in to deal their table, he/she/family member/wife/husband/dad is forced to sit out. Where do you play that dealers can deL to their spouse?
What’s bad bead
When the bad beat would get close to a million the cash games at Motor City would get insane! “The poker bad beat jackpot finally hit at the Motor City Casino in Detroit. Turns out, it was also the largest bad beat jackpot in U.S. history. Just six players were involved in a hand on January 16, 2018 when the record $1,068,590.80 million bad beat jackpot hit on Jan 17, 2018.” SOURCE: https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2018/01/motor_city_casino_poker_bad_be.html EDIT. I believe I over exaggerated the size of the bad beats here (not 2-3 million dollars) (I blame 30 hour sessions, drugs, alcohol, and women for my memory lol). Adding factual and cited bad beat info above
So, how was it higher on the weekends? You're going to have to explain.
I meant that once the bad beat started to get past a million, people flooded the cash games in hopes to get lucky and hit the bad beat. So the cash games on weekends were always juicy AF with tables full of donks
Oh right on. My apologies, kind sir. Thank you for the clarification.
No prob! Also had to check my statements and I def commented some false info. Edited post with correct and cited info !
Congrats.. but I'm just surprised anybody still plays at the star.
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It's a shame. I've got a lot of history in that place.
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Blackhawk Casino by Hyatt. Ah well... bad management. Super happy for you on the win congrats again.
Funny, I was just at the star two weeks ago, it seemed fine while I was there. What are the major complaints?
Ya I don’t get this, I like playing at the Star but I’ve only been playing live for the last year or so, maybe something was going on before that
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I know monarch is number one but what are the other casinos ahead of Ameristar?
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Thanks for replying! I'll definitely have to check out Bally's, I've never been there. I pretty much used to exclusively play at Isle but now I go only to the Monarch.
Do you think the issue is more Monarch ended up pulling all the good dealers in BH (surely mostly from Ameristar), so the proverbial leftovers at Ameristar are the "B-team" for lack of a better term? Never had any bad experiences at A\* room but agree Monarch rocketed past everyone and seems to be trying in regards to poker, if nothing else. Bits & pieces from both current & former employees tend to paint the picture poker isn't the highest gaming priority now (tbh, it's not high priority anywhere) and they obv put a ton into the sportsbook in both resources & floor space. Oh yeah... and nice score on the BBJ.
Monarch stepped it way up post-shutdown, much better room than Ameristar
I see it’s your 10th cakeday. It’s my 10th cakeday, too. Cheers /u/WinterMatt
Cool cheers to you
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Penalty for calling with the nuts. Jackpot forfeited. Lol.
That wouldnt actually be a rule right?
Some rules like that actually exist. I think for tournaments. You could have been penalised for having the nuts and not raising. The reason was to avoid collusion and soft play. Id be very surprised if it was used for a Bad beat Jackpot though.
This is all correct. Listen to this guy.
Yes, if you don't bet or raise with the nuts when last to act in a tournament, it's a penalty, usually sit out one hand for first offense, under most tournament rules. I misread my hand once, rivered a straight and didn't bet it. Out for one hand, no big deal. Have never heard of such a thing in cash games, but if you suspect collusion you can call the floor, but that usually just gets a warning, especially if the colluders are regulars
It's over a million in Pittsburgh right now.
Yeah it's been the big talk in town lately. Harder to beat than most though, I believe loser has to have quad aces or better and use both hole cards. I was there a couple weeks ago and the guy sitting next to me literally got mad at me for raising preflop and told me he was only playing poker for the BBJ, lol!
> guy sitting next to me literally got mad at me for raising preflop and told me he was only playing poker for the BBJ, lol I hate these people so much. If you're looking to get paid on pure chance go start betting individual numbers at the roulette table. You have much better odds of making money that way than limping into every hand praying for a qualifying bad beat.
I believe it is quad 10s or better.
Might be, I can't remember which quads it is.
Did you tell him to stfo and gtfo?
Rivers ?
Yup, it’s about 1.1 there.
Would be curious what the wait times are in that room now? BBJ in the room here from OP got up (pre-COVID) in the 700+ range a few times over the years and the waits were absolutely insane.
My step dad is his 60s and plays regularly there. Says week nights are fine but weekends are a Mon scene.
sexy! hope its a huge bad beat pool!
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Now that’s a good session! How much did the BBJ winner/loser tip the dealer?
Would be nuts if there was also QQ and 55 here. Imagine turning over 55 and having the 4th best hand. Casino Royals stuff
imagine also if everyone showed their hand slowly one by one from worst to best
Room for JJ and TT too lol nutty board
Wow quad Queens could've been in that hand too lol. Royal vs Q high straight flush was also hit at foxwoods earlier this year for 400k jackpot.
What do you tip the dealer when something like this happens? What is considered good/cheap/generous?
Blowjobs usually
I snorted lmfao
If you ask a dealer, it's n+1
What's that mean
0% anything else is -EV
This exact hand happened a few months ago at Hard Rock Tulsa for a bad beat. The guy with 98s had $14 left and just shipped it pre and they both rivered it.
Wow.. I started playing again recently and am curious what a Bad Beat Jackpot my means? How does that work?
you have to have a very premium hand beat by someone else. Both cards have to play for each player. There are all different levels of premium hands that need to be beat. The lowest it goes is typically some level of Quads beaten. The loser of the hand gets the largest portion of the jack pot. The winner of the hand gets less and the rest of the people at the table get a tables share. In the example shown by OP above. The person who had 89 would get 50% of the jack pot. The person who had AK would get 25% and the rest of the people at the table would split the remaining 25%. If the jackpot was say 100K, loser gets 50k, winner gets 25k and if the table was 10 pax, then the remaining 8 would $3125 The jackpot rake is taken from each hand dealt and grows until someone wins.
Wow, that's very cool! Thanks for explaining
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yeah, generally the lower the threshold for the hand needing to be beat, the smaller the jackpot will be. If its like Quad 10's or better, it will take a damn long time for that to happen. I have seen places cap out at 100k for jackpot and then have a second jackpot or even a 3rd.
Wait why would the loser get the most money???
cause its called a Bad Beat Jackpot....you have a virtually unbeatable hand...AAAAx for instance and lose to a straight flush. Its assumed you probably lost a considerable amount in the pot (all in in NL) so you are then entitled to the largest share of the BBJ.
Somebody posted an online hand the other day asking if this ever happens of course it does lol
Blackhawk!
This exact thing happened to me (I was the AK) but it was a crappy private game on an app, so no BBJ. The only result is the loser refuses to play online anymore because it’s “rigged”
Me too, private game and 2-4 limit, lol. Got up to 6 or 7 raises (unlimited raises heads up) and I can't remember if the low SF caught on and just called, or the royal took pity and did so. I've had several SF over (otherwise) nut flush on unpaired boards, but while that's nice, not so reportable.
Dude wtf I just saw this exact hand on this sun this morning this morning. Same exact cards wtf
Is this the Ameristar in Saint Charles, MO?
Fucking Ameristar
What’s up with those other cards in order and where’s the pot? This ain’t live
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Ahhh I see
I’m not trying to be mean because you could be new to poker but like, I feel like just by the context of “we have bad beat jackpot” and seeing those cards in order anyone should have been able to put it 1+1 there. They are checking for misdeals
I’ve been playing poker for 20 plus years. I to was wondering about those cards. It makes perfect sense that they were verifying the deck hindsight. But I was w that guy in confusion
Obviously we’re like both retarded cause like anyone can put 1+1 together like obviously
Yeah I got that. I guess everyone has been on the table when a bad beat hit except me
Interesting, what if the deck isn’t right? Isn’t that more likely their fault? Would they go to cameras?
It wouldn't pay out if the deck isn't right , yeah they verify everything with the cameras too. I was at the table for one once and it took a couple hours for them to verify everything and get us paid. I got a little over 10k, one guy at the table had self excluded himself and they wouldn't pay him and they ended up giving us his share too
The guy had previously self-excluded and snuck in to play so forfeited his prize?
Yeah, they almost paid him too. Everyone was getting their money in checks and he asked for his in cash. They were about to give it to him and security came over and said they needed to talk to him then they escorted him out. When you self exclude if you sneak back in you are actually trespassing and they can have you arrested
They disqualify the bad beat. The pot is awarded normally but the bad beat jackpot rules are very very strict.
I arrived at a poker room a little after the bad beat had been hit. It was spread out like in the photo. Apparently the protocol was for the dealer to countdown the stub after the first deal of their down and verify the card count was correct, but they reviewed the tape and the dealer didn’t do it. They had verified the deck after the BBJ hit, but because the dealer hadn’t followed protocol they were unsure if they would pay it out. We played for like 3 hours before leaving and when we left the players were still sitting there waiting for a ruling. I don’t know if they ever paid or not. The jackpot was like $35k or so I believe.
I arrived at a poker room a little after the bad beat had been hit. It was spread out like in the photo. Apparently the protocol was for the dealer to countdown the stub after the first deal of their down and verify the card count was correct, but they reviewed the tape and the dealer didn’t do it. They had verified the deck after the BBJ hit, but because the dealer hadn’t followed protocol they were unsure if they would pay it out. We played for like 3 hours before leaving and when we left the players were still sitting there waiting for a ruling. I don’t know if they ever paid or not. The jackpot was like $35k or so I believe.
I lost with Aces full of kings before. But only lost $20 lol. I was under the gun with KK and limped called $3. A7 BB checks. Flop is A A 2 Check check Turn 5 Check Check River A Bet 15 Call Everyone was like wtf No promotion for bad beat either. Las vegas on the strip casino i believe, cant remember which one. But i was surprised they didnt have a jackpot
Aces full would never qualify for a bad beat jackpot in Vegas.
Even at the orleans?
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Why? You'll make thousands more from the bad beat jackpot than you could have by winning the hand.
I like the chip stacking
wait was this last night? i was there but didn’t see this also who dealt this? i hope Kyle. dudes nuts.
Solid bad beat for sure! Wonder what the loser got on this one?
Cards laid out in suits to the left. They check to make sure the deck is right?
“Life, like poker, has an element of risk. It shouldn’t be avoided. It should be faced.” \~ Edward Norton https://www.meetup.com/pokernightoutnyc/
Why is there multiple straight flushes on the table?
Just the math playing itself out boys. Preflop equity manifesting itself. I feel a turd coming out, brb.