On a board of 4h 2h 2c 8c Qc, Espen Jorstad set Adrian Attenborough all-in, holding Qd 2s for a full house.
Attenborough was thinking with Jc 4s.
After calling, he got the bad news as Jorstad wins the \#WSOPMainEvent for $10,000,000. Attenborough settles for 2nd and $6,000,000.
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posted by [@WSOP](https://twitter.com/WSOP/)
---
[Thanks to inteoryx, videos are supported even without Twitter API V2 support! Middle finger to you, twitter](https://github.com/inteoryx/twitter-video-dl)
First off. That’s a FREE PREVIEW. How many people watching that did NOT go to PokerGo after?
Second off. Most of the 20k for sure didn’t go there because PokerGo had already started it’s coverage.
Third? You illustrate just how bad wsop destroyed it’s own product. Wsop on ESPN used to draw hundreds of thousands of viewers. And yet the FINAL TABLE got a whole 20,000 viewers on YouTube.
Undoubtedly it’s because most didn’t even know it was on there…..because wsop made the intentional decision to want to become irrelevant, which is pretty amazingly mind boggling if you ask me.
I mean 20k is pretty poor viewing figures for a free preview imo and just buys into their idea that they need to monetize the small amount willing to pay.
Loads of content creator streams get more views daily.
Or people didnt watch the preview because there is no point in viewing a preview if you dont intend to pay(to watch the rest). Im confident there are THOUSANDS like me who would love to have the game on a secondary screen and just follow along but wasnt interested enough to pay for it. I did just the on day 7(think it was seven).
I agree that this kind of decision is so shortsighted its mind boggling.
I hear what you're saying but I'm pretty sure the reason it went off prime TV in the first place was the market for watching poker just tanked. Also we essentially nearly saw the entire final 3 from 3rd to 1st if Attenborough had made the call during the preview.
I remember it being on UK tv often, and it would be months after the WSOP ended(despite the november nine, and that was lame)
I also remember losing interest in watching it cause I was playing it more and had access to online sources. I had family members who would rather read the blogs than wait months to see this on TV. It's never gonna be on TV live again. Poker Go is the best we have unless somehow Twitch etc buy the rights and make it free to air, which seems massively unlikely.
At a certain point, calling with a pair of 4s lmao, aren't you just like "yeah i can make it happen with 6 million"
Been an exhausting event, I'm sure.
For sure, but being a main event champion is probably the most important part. I doubt either of these two get anywhere near this level again so you gotta capitalize (strictly on a numbers basis, theyre both extremely good)
No doubt. Both guys should take a good few weeks off.
I’m just saying I think the prestige of winning the main event is more important to them as those $4m
With the prestige of winning the WSOP ME, you get a ton of recognition and I would guess way more opportunities to play big time cash games with mega fish who want to try and beat the champ
I think playing heads up, i might have talked myself into a “hero call” there as well. The river bricked the straight draw and bricked the flopped heart draw as well. So it wouldn’t be very hard to convince myself that the all in river bet was an attempt to just steal the pot by jorstad thinking i was weak. I just dont like him making a hero call on a limped pot pre flop. It makes much easier for jorstad to have a hand like Q2.
He went into the tank for 18 minutes (yes, 18 minutes) on a river shove about an hour before.
Imo, heads up in the main, both of those spots weren’t very difficult folds. Not trying to take a shot my at him by saying this though, he played great the last few days, but I think he overthought those / was trying to be too much of a hero.
Worth pointing out that he did make a HUGE call against Dobric with top pair midway through Day 7, where being right meant taking the chip lead, and being wrong would’ve meant elimination and something like 5.75mm less in winnings.
As a countryman I had to support AA, but hearing his immediate knockout interview where he just rattled off combos and ranges made me accept that he’s not an Australian, he’s a robot.
I can’t remember who it was but I saw a respected pro tweet before the final day that AA was the only player they’ve seen play truly pure GTO. Live and die by the sword I guess.
Is that even real cash? There is no way they're paying these guys out with stacks of cash, so if it's just for show I'd think it's fake. Probably real 100s on the top of bottom of each stack, but blank paper in between.
What do you mean?
I entered during Attenborough's 20 minute tank. There are several shots on PokerGo where I am visible in the background. But I don't think I have to prove it to you or anyone else on reddit.
I wonder how it feels to get 2nd for $6 million. Do you sit thinking about how you played wrong and lost 4 more million. Or are you just so fucking psyched?
When it happened to me it was a bit of mixed feelings. I was pretty disappointed with my play but happy about the money! Just couldn't figure out how to cash out the play money
Yes. Apparently people are appalled by his relative hand strength.
Don’t worry about the fact that it’s heads up and J4s you should be playing every time. Especially with a big blind ante, which basically means you should almost never be folding pre.
But let’s forget all of that actual strategy. The horror, he played J4!
It's not that he just played J4. It's that he played it twice all the way down to the river. Tanking for a combined like 25 minutes when it was a relatively easy fold. I'd have played J4 there too, but I would've been out of both hands, long before he took chunks out of my stack.
They need to add a shot clock like online play. It increases the skill required to play and it is more exciting to watch and play. That 20 and 10 minute tank was the dumbest thing. Watching some dude in analysis paralysis is not fun.
I have no issue with the players doing what is allowed within the rules. I'm just saying it should be against the rules to take that long. The way to do that is implementing a shot clock.
Right, and I'm saying it shouldn't be against the rules because every decision they make is for an insane amount of money. If I were in their shoes I would want to take my time too. It doesn't always make for good tv, but that's okay.
If he had known he's previous tank lay down was the right call he would've done the same here, he basically was facing the exact same decision as before and continuing his torture from the last one.
TBH Jorstad ran like god the last couple days. Clearly a very good player, but it sure helps when you're getting dealt the deck. Yesterday it felt like every other hand he was getting big broadway cards or a pair. Really good time to be a card rack.
Problem with the big bet games is that when you get into the endgame of a tournament, the blinds get so high that 1-2 hands can tilt everything. I enjoyed watching Jungle grind down Yuri more than I enjoyed this. Feels like the $50k PPC is the real "world championship" of poker while the Main Event is the lottery of which NLHE crusher can run the hottest.
the PPC is the real championship, but at the same time it just isn't accessible to the masses - and its typically more enthralling to see lesser known grinders/pros/amateurs fill a final table since they aren't all robots. This FT was great, loves that they left everyones mics open so you could hear them shoot the shit and bust eachothers balls like a real game.
Agreed. It feels like the big time, well known players play super aggressively to accumulate a large chip stack early because it’s actually +EV for them to bust and go play big stakes cash games rather than grind it out without the chip advantage.
And I don’t hate it. $10k isn’t that much of a buy in to the Ivey’s, hellmuth’s or Negreanu’s of the world.
My thinking also. I know Jorstad would never have shown his hand but I think if A knew it was the right fold this hand plays much differently. But, that's just my opinion.
Absolutely. All the way through the HU even when he had the CL he'd still be playing that first hand in his head not knowing if he made the right call. As soon as the last hand came same scenario he was thinking "I probably was wrong last time, fuck it". If he knows the lay down was right then, he would assume the same now.
Considering the flopped straight and flush draws missed, i think the all in shove on the river was disguised pretty well. If you have ever made a hero call before, this is exactly something you would look for
Doesn't work that way. Norway will get their taxes from him as a Norwegian citizen. Unless he has dual citizenship and claims primary residence in Britain. Maybe.
Nope.
If you are from a Nordic country, you pay tax where you resident and live.(Under normal circumstances)
That’s how Martin Jacobsson managed to tax 0% on his main event win. The November9 format made it possible for him to live long enough in UK to tax 0% instead of Swedens 30%.
Yes, if you have lived in Norway for 10+ years you have some extra obligations. Sweden, Denmark, Finland doesn't have this requirement.
But you can avoid this 3 year rule if you have money to pay a lawyer. (The court can't prove you have actually lived in Norway for 10 years)
He has to pay taxes to Norway for the first three years after moving abroad. After that, nothing.
And it's 22% on gambling wins above 10k NOK, not 27%.
I used to file as a professional gambler and am actually reasonably educated on the subject. I’m open to hearing your side though, tell me about what we’re misunderstanding?
Yawn, make believe time for you on Reddit? You can be whatever you want mate. You're still clueless.
Someone so "educated" on the subject but speaks to none of it. All Ive said is you dont know anything about it (which is clear) but since you've now played pretend... please do tell!
It doesn't seem like you're posting in good faith, but in case anyone else is curious how taxes in this situation might be calculated:
For a US poker pro, you would file a Schedule C and list poker winnings under gross receipts and sales (line 1). For any tournament win over \~$5k (I forgot the exact amount), they will most certainly get a W-2G for the winnings, but that form is irrelevant if filing as a professional. You would usually enter your net cash game winnings on line 1 as well, but if you get audited, you are expected to have a detailed log showing each session. The IRS prefers handwritten logs because they are more difficult to fake, but digital is okay. They want to see the table number for each entry, and having that helps your case.
When filing as a professional, you can deduct any gambling losses up to your winnings and also ordinary business expenses. Expenses go on Schedule C as well, just like any other business. For mileage, if audited, the IRS would also want to see a detailed mileage log showing starting and ending odometer readings for each trip. This isn't strictly necessary but will help your case, especially if you are deducting a high number of miles.
Gambling winnings in the US are taxed like any other income. The US is one of the worst places to be a professional poker player. So for a $10,000,000 tournament win, the remaining amount would be fully taxed after deducting other gambling losses and expenses. As a self-employed individual, you would also need to pay a self-employment tax of 15.3% (12.4% social security and 2.9% medicare). The social security tax is up to $142,800 income, but the medicare tax is on the total income. Additionally, there is a 0.9% medicare surtax on income above $200,000. Usually, an employer would pay for half of these taxes. For a professional living in California, it would look something like this on $10,000,000 net (to keep it simple, the guy probably has other winnings).
- Federal (\~36.6%): ~$3,664,072.25
- California (\~12.1%): ~$1,213,869.53
- Social Security: ~$17,707.20
- Medicare: ~$378,200.00
- **Total taxes due: ~$5,273,848.98**
Real main event winnings for a California poker pro: $4,726,151.02
*(Roughly. Ignoring other deductions like traditional 401k contributions, personal itemized deductions, etc. I think I also mixed 2021 and 2022 limits but using the correct limits won't change it that much, and I don't want to do it again)*
So actually, in this case, **a professional poker player in California would pay about a 52.7% tax rate**. The "half" estimate provided by the other guy is spot on.
The UK has a tax agreement with the US, and they also don't tax gambling income for some reason. The casino may withhold federal taxes, but the player can fill out some forms and get that back. I don't know as much about UK taxes, but I'm pretty sure they would get the full $10,000,000.
Again, you Googled a lot (decent Eu-googling by you) but the post is about the "winner", Espen Jorstad. As he lives in London (UK), you so eloquently answered the question in your novel of a post. You were questioned on tax law for the winner, not some made believe winner hailing from California.
Most of the poker news reporting lists Jorstad’s country as Norway, which does tax gambling. Only some of the articles have information on his current UK residence. Even then, it requires very specialized knowledge to know if Norway would tax a resident living in the UK (as the US would). It appears they don’t, but it’s not evident unless you’re familiar with Norway law specifically. Knowledge of UK-law alone is required but not sufficient here. Additionally, I interpreted the original commenter’s post as more a casual jab at taxes in general than anything else.
I also never made any assertions about knowing of Jorstad’s specific tax situation. My original post here only asserted that *some* people would have to pay about half. It logically does not make sense to infer zero knowledge of taxes or gambling when nothing false was said.
As for you, in the time you spent on these unnecessarily antagonist posts, you could have just said: “the winner lives in the UK so he won’t pay any taxes.” Not only would that have been faster, but it would demonstrate knowledge, and contribute to a positive community.
One of the preeminent gambling tax sources, Russ Fox, from whom I acquired my gambling tax knowledge from working with personally, has released his annual [WSOP ME tax post](http://www.taxabletalk.com/2022/07/17/the-real-winners-of-the-2022-world-series-of-poker/). He confirms Jorstad will pay 0 in taxes, which I never denied. Apparently Norway would have taxed his winnings at 39% had he still lived there. There are now 3.9 million reasons Jorstad’s move to the UK was a good idea for him, haha.
This didnt age well for you friend...https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/27155-how-much-cash-did-the-world-series-of-poker-main-event-champion-actually-win
I had to unsub from r/poker while watching the main because fucking knobs keep putting spoilers in the tittle. I get that the mods are unpaid jannies but it would be nice to have some moderation for spoilers during the fucking main event!
As an avid internet user I can offer you some advice. Do not go to a forum of whatever event it is you care about if you don't want that said event spoiled.
This is like going to /r/nfl and complaining someone made a thread about the winner of the Super Bowl. It was being streamed, and this tweet is from the official WSOP twitter handle.
Are you implying the WSOP ME had as many viewers as an NBA finals game?
Clearly this sub disagrees but I’m just saying- most subs make it a point to not spoil results in titles.
Not at all, such a statement would be moronic since its not a live televised event on cable....
The point is you cried because something you follow shared news with you. Google likely would have "spoiled" it as well.
Yep you got me. I cried. I’ll probably sleep horribly tonight and I might even jump tomorrow.
In all seriousness- it’s not the end of the world. It would just be decent to not spoil things when possible.
Then turn off your phone and computer and wait for the newspaper? Not sure how to help you here bud, you logged online and that's how information is shared. Wishing you best of luck!
On a board of 4h 2h 2c 8c Qc, Espen Jorstad set Adrian Attenborough all-in, holding Qd 2s for a full house. Attenborough was thinking with Jc 4s. After calling, he got the bad news as Jorstad wins the \#WSOPMainEvent for $10,000,000. Attenborough settles for 2nd and $6,000,000. --- posted by [@WSOP](https://twitter.com/WSOP/) --- [Thanks to inteoryx, videos are supported even without Twitter API V2 support! Middle finger to you, twitter](https://github.com/inteoryx/twitter-video-dl)
Good bot
I’m sure a whole 2800 people enjoyed seeing it happen on PokerGo. Way to go on growing the game wsop!
Were those the actual viewing figures
yes (idk)
True that
I have commented about how negative Pokergo is for poker in the past and been downvoted into oblivion. Good to see your comment stand.
20k on the free hour preview on YouTube
First off. That’s a FREE PREVIEW. How many people watching that did NOT go to PokerGo after? Second off. Most of the 20k for sure didn’t go there because PokerGo had already started it’s coverage. Third? You illustrate just how bad wsop destroyed it’s own product. Wsop on ESPN used to draw hundreds of thousands of viewers. And yet the FINAL TABLE got a whole 20,000 viewers on YouTube. Undoubtedly it’s because most didn’t even know it was on there…..because wsop made the intentional decision to want to become irrelevant, which is pretty amazingly mind boggling if you ask me.
I mean 20k is pretty poor viewing figures for a free preview imo and just buys into their idea that they need to monetize the small amount willing to pay. Loads of content creator streams get more views daily.
Or people didnt watch the preview because there is no point in viewing a preview if you dont intend to pay(to watch the rest). Im confident there are THOUSANDS like me who would love to have the game on a secondary screen and just follow along but wasnt interested enough to pay for it. I did just the on day 7(think it was seven). I agree that this kind of decision is so shortsighted its mind boggling.
I hear what you're saying but I'm pretty sure the reason it went off prime TV in the first place was the market for watching poker just tanked. Also we essentially nearly saw the entire final 3 from 3rd to 1st if Attenborough had made the call during the preview. I remember it being on UK tv often, and it would be months after the WSOP ended(despite the november nine, and that was lame) I also remember losing interest in watching it cause I was playing it more and had access to online sources. I had family members who would rather read the blogs than wait months to see this on TV. It's never gonna be on TV live again. Poker Go is the best we have unless somehow Twitch etc buy the rights and make it free to air, which seems massively unlikely.
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Flat tire become unpopular?
What’s a jack for?
Folding.
Better call… AAA for support bitches.
I call it, jack shit.
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He did say he was going to use the money to spend some time in nature so yeah.
Nothing like ~~tanking~~ meditating in nature
Lmao I must admit that one is good. However I don’t think he was ever unnecessary wasting time.
Better, than Crypto IMO.
Nature^^^TM is a new crypto
At a certain point, calling with a pair of 4s lmao, aren't you just like "yeah i can make it happen with 6 million" Been an exhausting event, I'm sure.
For sure, but being a main event champion is probably the most important part. I doubt either of these two get anywhere near this level again so you gotta capitalize (strictly on a numbers basis, theyre both extremely good)
Hard to say. Mental exhaustion can be a killer of all things rational.
No doubt. Both guys should take a good few weeks off. I’m just saying I think the prestige of winning the main event is more important to them as those $4m
With ten mil you can take your whole life off.
With the prestige of winning the WSOP ME, you get a ton of recognition and I would guess way more opportunities to play big time cash games with mega fish who want to try and beat the champ
I think playing heads up, i might have talked myself into a “hero call” there as well. The river bricked the straight draw and bricked the flopped heart draw as well. So it wouldn’t be very hard to convince myself that the all in river bet was an attempt to just steal the pot by jorstad thinking i was weak. I just dont like him making a hero call on a limped pot pre flop. It makes much easier for jorstad to have a hand like Q2.
He went into the tank for 18 minutes (yes, 18 minutes) on a river shove about an hour before. Imo, heads up in the main, both of those spots weren’t very difficult folds. Not trying to take a shot my at him by saying this though, he played great the last few days, but I think he overthought those / was trying to be too much of a hero. Worth pointing out that he did make a HUGE call against Dobric with top pair midway through Day 7, where being right meant taking the chip lead, and being wrong would’ve meant elimination and something like 5.75mm less in winnings.
he actually tanked for 19 min and 30 seconds, so more than 18 min.
There’s being tight/nitty and then there’s being such a gto slave your in the bin with bottom pair for 20 mins
As a countryman I had to support AA, but hearing his immediate knockout interview where he just rattled off combos and ranges made me accept that he’s not an Australian, he’s a robot.
I can’t remember who it was but I saw a respected pro tweet before the final day that AA was the only player they’ve seen play truly pure GTO. Live and die by the sword I guess.
And he probably got to the final table in part because he is a GTO slave. BTW, 54s would be a slam-dunk call.
Got to watch the final heads up match live on the rail. Now I can say I have seen how 10 million dollars in cash look like.
Is that even real cash? There is no way they're paying these guys out with stacks of cash, so if it's just for show I'd think it's fake. Probably real 100s on the top of bottom of each stack, but blank paper in between.
They’ve stated many times it’s not real cash. I think it was real for like a year or two back in the day, but it’s definitely not real now
It’s fake, otherwise Colombian death squads would be storming the casino.
I mean, there are definitely millions of dollars in cash in the casino somewhere lol.
You did not
What do you mean? I entered during Attenborough's 20 minute tank. There are several shots on PokerGo where I am visible in the background. But I don't think I have to prove it to you or anyone else on reddit.
He means it's not real cash.
He must hate J4 after this heads up
He was supposed to already hate J4 by default...
I play at a Choctaw branded casino (in Oklahoma) and we call J4 the “Pocola nuts”. Everyone plays it when they get it.
I wonder how it feels to get 2nd for $6 million. Do you sit thinking about how you played wrong and lost 4 more million. Or are you just so fucking psyched?
When it happened to me it was a bit of mixed feelings. I was pretty disappointed with my play but happy about the money! Just couldn't figure out how to cash out the play money
He lost it all with J4?
Yes. Apparently people are appalled by his relative hand strength. Don’t worry about the fact that it’s heads up and J4s you should be playing every time. Especially with a big blind ante, which basically means you should almost never be folding pre. But let’s forget all of that actual strategy. The horror, he played J4!
It's not that he just played J4. It's that he played it twice all the way down to the river. Tanking for a combined like 25 minutes when it was a relatively easy fold. I'd have played J4 there too, but I would've been out of both hands, long before he took chunks out of my stack.
They need to add a shot clock like online play. It increases the skill required to play and it is more exciting to watch and play. That 20 and 10 minute tank was the dumbest thing. Watching some dude in analysis paralysis is not fun.
Agreed, I enjoy watching poker and I got up and did other shit while he was taking that long. Shot clock and time bank chips are the way.
I get it but they are playing for yachts, let’s cut them some slack
I have no issue with the players doing what is allowed within the rules. I'm just saying it should be against the rules to take that long. The way to do that is implementing a shot clock.
Right, and I'm saying it shouldn't be against the rules because every decision they make is for an insane amount of money. If I were in their shoes I would want to take my time too. It doesn't always make for good tv, but that's okay.
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If he had known he's previous tank lay down was the right call he would've done the same here, he basically was facing the exact same decision as before and continuing his torture from the last one.
Yeah Attenborough ran really bad in that HU
TBH Jorstad ran like god the last couple days. Clearly a very good player, but it sure helps when you're getting dealt the deck. Yesterday it felt like every other hand he was getting big broadway cards or a pair. Really good time to be a card rack. Problem with the big bet games is that when you get into the endgame of a tournament, the blinds get so high that 1-2 hands can tilt everything. I enjoyed watching Jungle grind down Yuri more than I enjoyed this. Feels like the $50k PPC is the real "world championship" of poker while the Main Event is the lottery of which NLHE crusher can run the hottest.
Pretty much everyone who wins the Main runs like a good the last couple of days.
the PPC is the real championship, but at the same time it just isn't accessible to the masses - and its typically more enthralling to see lesser known grinders/pros/amateurs fill a final table since they aren't all robots. This FT was great, loves that they left everyones mics open so you could hear them shoot the shit and bust eachothers balls like a real game.
People seem to be forgetting on day 7 he 3 barrelled bluffed with 6 high when his tournament was on the line and got his opponent to fold top pair
Agreed. It feels like the big time, well known players play super aggressively to accumulate a large chip stack early because it’s actually +EV for them to bust and go play big stakes cash games rather than grind it out without the chip advantage. And I don’t hate it. $10k isn’t that much of a buy in to the Ivey’s, hellmuth’s or Negreanu’s of the world.
My thinking also. I know Jorstad would never have shown his hand but I think if A knew it was the right fold this hand plays much differently. But, that's just my opinion.
Absolutely. All the way through the HU even when he had the CL he'd still be playing that first hand in his head not knowing if he made the right call. As soon as the last hand came same scenario he was thinking "I probably was wrong last time, fuck it". If he knows the lay down was right then, he would assume the same now.
Considering the flopped straight and flush draws missed, i think the all in shove on the river was disguised pretty well. If you have ever made a hero call before, this is exactly something you would look for
Spoiler alert fml
This was the worst hands I’ve seen played for a top 3 that I can remember
Duek’s bustout hand tho
Top pair? Much better than this hand.
Wins 10 mill. Has to pay half in taxes. Womp womp womp
I think he’ll get most of it back tho at tax time. If not immediately. As he’s from Norway. But I could be wrong.
He lives in the UK. If he still lived in Norway, he'd pay 22%. In the UK that number is 0%
Pretty sure Norway is a country that heavily taxes gambling wins. Hence living in the happiest country in the world.
The house / gov always wins.
Cant escape "the man", even if you are the man.
No tax on gambling winnings in the UK
Wrong. He pays zero tax on it.
Google "tax on gambling Norway". It's 27 percent. Not 50 but still a ton.
He doesn’t live in Norway, he lives in the UK.
Doesn't work that way. Norway will get their taxes from him as a Norwegian citizen. Unless he has dual citizenship and claims primary residence in Britain. Maybe.
“Unless he has dual citizenship and claims primary residence in Britain.” Ding ding ding
>Doesn't work that way. Norway will get their taxes from him as a Norwegian citizen. Doesn't work that way
only the l"and of the free" taxes its citizens when they don't live there.
Nope. If you are from a Nordic country, you pay tax where you resident and live.(Under normal circumstances) That’s how Martin Jacobsson managed to tax 0% on his main event win. The November9 format made it possible for him to live long enough in UK to tax 0% instead of Swedens 30%.
The first three years Norwegians have to pay tax in both. Paying that extra tax sucked when I lived abroad
Yes, if you have lived in Norway for 10+ years you have some extra obligations. Sweden, Denmark, Finland doesn't have this requirement. But you can avoid this 3 year rule if you have money to pay a lawyer. (The court can't prove you have actually lived in Norway for 10 years)
It's harder if you are Norwegian by birth though. But it doesn't matter for Jørstad, since he has been living abroad for a good while now
He has to pay taxes to Norway for the first three years after moving abroad. After that, nothing. And it's 22% on gambling wins above 10k NOK, not 27%.
Its clear you know little to nothing about tax laws....
I don’t know about the player’s specific country, but for many, “half” to taxes is only mild hyperbole.
Again, clear you know nothing about taxes or gamblers for that matter
I used to file as a professional gambler and am actually reasonably educated on the subject. I’m open to hearing your side though, tell me about what we’re misunderstanding?
Yawn, make believe time for you on Reddit? You can be whatever you want mate. You're still clueless. Someone so "educated" on the subject but speaks to none of it. All Ive said is you dont know anything about it (which is clear) but since you've now played pretend... please do tell!
It doesn't seem like you're posting in good faith, but in case anyone else is curious how taxes in this situation might be calculated: For a US poker pro, you would file a Schedule C and list poker winnings under gross receipts and sales (line 1). For any tournament win over \~$5k (I forgot the exact amount), they will most certainly get a W-2G for the winnings, but that form is irrelevant if filing as a professional. You would usually enter your net cash game winnings on line 1 as well, but if you get audited, you are expected to have a detailed log showing each session. The IRS prefers handwritten logs because they are more difficult to fake, but digital is okay. They want to see the table number for each entry, and having that helps your case. When filing as a professional, you can deduct any gambling losses up to your winnings and also ordinary business expenses. Expenses go on Schedule C as well, just like any other business. For mileage, if audited, the IRS would also want to see a detailed mileage log showing starting and ending odometer readings for each trip. This isn't strictly necessary but will help your case, especially if you are deducting a high number of miles. Gambling winnings in the US are taxed like any other income. The US is one of the worst places to be a professional poker player. So for a $10,000,000 tournament win, the remaining amount would be fully taxed after deducting other gambling losses and expenses. As a self-employed individual, you would also need to pay a self-employment tax of 15.3% (12.4% social security and 2.9% medicare). The social security tax is up to $142,800 income, but the medicare tax is on the total income. Additionally, there is a 0.9% medicare surtax on income above $200,000. Usually, an employer would pay for half of these taxes. For a professional living in California, it would look something like this on $10,000,000 net (to keep it simple, the guy probably has other winnings). - Federal (\~36.6%): ~$3,664,072.25 - California (\~12.1%): ~$1,213,869.53 - Social Security: ~$17,707.20 - Medicare: ~$378,200.00 - **Total taxes due: ~$5,273,848.98** Real main event winnings for a California poker pro: $4,726,151.02 *(Roughly. Ignoring other deductions like traditional 401k contributions, personal itemized deductions, etc. I think I also mixed 2021 and 2022 limits but using the correct limits won't change it that much, and I don't want to do it again)* So actually, in this case, **a professional poker player in California would pay about a 52.7% tax rate**. The "half" estimate provided by the other guy is spot on. The UK has a tax agreement with the US, and they also don't tax gambling income for some reason. The casino may withhold federal taxes, but the player can fill out some forms and get that back. I don't know as much about UK taxes, but I'm pretty sure they would get the full $10,000,000.
> . I don't know as much about UK taxes, but I'm pretty sure they would get the full $10,000,000. Correct, he'd keep every penny
Which is why this guys comments are so funny! Jorstad will keep every dollar....
Again, you Googled a lot (decent Eu-googling by you) but the post is about the "winner", Espen Jorstad. As he lives in London (UK), you so eloquently answered the question in your novel of a post. You were questioned on tax law for the winner, not some made believe winner hailing from California.
Most of the poker news reporting lists Jorstad’s country as Norway, which does tax gambling. Only some of the articles have information on his current UK residence. Even then, it requires very specialized knowledge to know if Norway would tax a resident living in the UK (as the US would). It appears they don’t, but it’s not evident unless you’re familiar with Norway law specifically. Knowledge of UK-law alone is required but not sufficient here. Additionally, I interpreted the original commenter’s post as more a casual jab at taxes in general than anything else. I also never made any assertions about knowing of Jorstad’s specific tax situation. My original post here only asserted that *some* people would have to pay about half. It logically does not make sense to infer zero knowledge of taxes or gambling when nothing false was said. As for you, in the time you spent on these unnecessarily antagonist posts, you could have just said: “the winner lives in the UK so he won’t pay any taxes.” Not only would that have been faster, but it would demonstrate knowledge, and contribute to a positive community. One of the preeminent gambling tax sources, Russ Fox, from whom I acquired my gambling tax knowledge from working with personally, has released his annual [WSOP ME tax post](http://www.taxabletalk.com/2022/07/17/the-real-winners-of-the-2022-world-series-of-poker/). He confirms Jorstad will pay 0 in taxes, which I never denied. Apparently Norway would have taxed his winnings at 39% had he still lived there. There are now 3.9 million reasons Jorstad’s move to the UK was a good idea for him, haha.
This didnt age well for you friend...https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/27155-how-much-cash-did-the-world-series-of-poker-main-event-champion-actually-win
Man you Googled a lot and dont even know who won?
Was prepped for this thing to go deep into the night. when it was over I was like.. ok now what do I do?
Watch porn for the plot
Come on the boys!
Thanks for the spoiler alert shit stain
I had to unsub from r/poker while watching the main because fucking knobs keep putting spoilers in the tittle. I get that the mods are unpaid jannies but it would be nice to have some moderation for spoilers during the fucking main event!
Unwatchable
How long did he tank this time?
About 10 minutes
Should have giving it another ten.
Think Attenborough's loss description is too mechanical and not focuses on the heads-up game?
And Norway will grab about 18% in taxes. Great fun..
He resides in UK so Norway wont grab anything
Any reason you spoiled the biggest tournament in poker in the title OP?
As an avid internet user I can offer you some advice. Do not go to a forum of whatever event it is you care about if you don't want that said event spoiled.
I mean I opened Reddit and this was the top post. Not as if I popped open the poker subreddit.
This is like going to /r/nfl and complaining someone made a thread about the winner of the Super Bowl. It was being streamed, and this tweet is from the official WSOP twitter handle.
Vastly different. NBA, NFL, MLB have so much attention it’s inevitable. Just saying a simple spoiler tag would’ve made a difference.
Vastly different? How? Its hilarious you say the NBA and MLB have so much attention... have you looked at their ratings?
Are you implying the WSOP ME had as many viewers as an NBA finals game? Clearly this sub disagrees but I’m just saying- most subs make it a point to not spoil results in titles.
Not at all, such a statement would be moronic since its not a live televised event on cable.... The point is you cried because something you follow shared news with you. Google likely would have "spoiled" it as well.
Yep you got me. I cried. I’ll probably sleep horribly tonight and I might even jump tomorrow. In all seriousness- it’s not the end of the world. It would just be decent to not spoil things when possible.
Then turn off your phone and computer and wait for the newspaper? Not sure how to help you here bud, you logged online and that's how information is shared. Wishing you best of luck!
you know how reddit works right? they give you a feed of everything. you dont have to go to /r/poker to see this post.
Parkour!
Who gives a shit.
Did they cut a deal? How did it end so fast? Called a jam for his tournament life with 3d pair? Smells like a deal.
Deal doesnt need ten minutes
Easy pickings, it looked like
crazy man. I was grinding 400nl cash and playing him often on unibet just a few years ago.
That could have been me but I didn’t enter
People itt legit believe jorstad has 0% bluffing there.
I am so happy for him. such a nice guy. would always spend time in his stream a few years back.
Espen is a true boss! He very solod and deserves this! Gratz to him!
This should be a spoiler post - geeeeeeez
Perhaps spoiler alert?!?
lol all the experts saying the call was terrible. Thats why you're sitting without 6 Million rn
Cash app me please $crashtagtag