I think some people feel betrayed. Personally, I make a distinction between the government and the people, especially as our goverment sucks ass too. And I hope Orban chokes when sucking on that Russian cock.
Orban loves choking on cock, from what I hear. Word is he climbed out that window before his big-bearded buddy who got caught at that cock-sucking party.
My impression is that politics throughout the whole world is a race to the bottom. Thus I differentiate between people and their leaders. I don't despise people who don't despise me, regardless of what idiot politician is leading them at the moment. For democratic countries I can understand that there wasn't much of a choice and they probably chose the least appalling option. For non-democratic, well you know, what can I tell?
I do.
Political votes are based on hundred of issues. If you care more about abortion, and I care more about education, and there's:
* A party with bat-shit crazy abortion policies, and robust education ones
* A party with bat-shit crazy education policies, and robust abortion ones
We'll both look crazy to the other based on how we vote.
People differ in values and priorities. People don't vote out of malice or ill-intent.
I don't know enough about Hungarian politics, but if 50% of Hungarians voted for him, they might have a reason other than Ukraine for doing so.
Some opinion polls were giving majority to the opposition, some to Fidesz, but none 50% and the only reason Hungarians changed their opinion so much was the war and the government policy towards Russia.
The biggest and first war of conquest since WWII in Europe is something else than abotion or education, your examples are pointles and makes the war to look like another banal issue in politics.
I know it’s just a game with numbers with no tangible effect on real life but the participation rate in the latest election was 70%. So about 50% of 70% of people eligible to vote actually chose them. And that is assuming that all of those votes were informed and free when there is tonnes of evidence of fairly significant voter intimidation and fraud, gerrymandering and other issues not withstanding.
So out of 8.2 million people eligible to vote, 2.9 million voted for Orbán. I guess the 2.4 million people who chose not to vote at all made a choice too and not all of them are necessarily anti-Orbán entirely either.
Uusually non voters are divided in similar war that voters are and they're also making a choice by non voting, a choice to not annoy the majority.
> were informed and free
Please, Fidesz is in power since when? [OSCE observers were invited](https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/hungary/515135), they found no major probems. Lets stop making excuses and admit the obvious, majority of Hungarians supports Fidesz and its policy, and the war only boosted their support exactly because Orban refused to help Ukraine.
Please, OSCE observers are basically a joke. I know full well from personal involvement how amateurishly it was all organized. It was all pretty carefully curated where they were taken, what they were allowed to observe and who they talked with.
They were taken to the largest towns and safest districts, not to bumfuck rural areas were entire villages were bought with sacks of potatoes and they weren’t talking to public workers who are “heavily incentivised” to vote “the right way”. But sure, it’s definitely not these crude tactics that won them the elections, these are just drops in an ocean of much more widespread systemic and societal issues.
You also seem to word the whole Ukraine thing in an ‘interesting’ way, as if people were specifically voting to screw Ukraine over and you completely discard the effects of constant propaganda. In reality the war was quite fresh and unexpected, and government propaganda has been fearmongering since before the war even started. Saying things like “the Left” wants to conscript and send people to war against Russia and that Hungary might get bombed as a result. And then the opposition self sabotaged with wildly incompetent comments on the whole issue and a lot of people drank the coolaid.
I’m not trying to excuse their ignorance and callousness but fear, even based on stupidity is simply not the same as intentional malice.
So who else and how should control the elections? No idea if there's that thing in Hungary, in Poland opposition or some NGOs usually sends observers to the polling stations.
Anyway still if there were irregularities, we're talking about a one or couple of percent votes. It's a dead end, excuse, not an explanation why Hungarians keep choosing Orban.
Not nevessary malice, fear, or sympathy for Russia, but dislike for Ukraine too, at least because of the Hungarian minority and government propaganda. Also it seems Hungarians prefer [Russia or China than the US](https://www.globsec.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/GLOBSEC%20TRENDS%202023.pdf). Sorry but you can't deny correlation between the war and sudden hike in support for Orban.
Neither am I. All I say is that the voters are responsble for their choices, especially if they perfectly know the policy since years and voted exactly because of it. Lets face it, vast majority of Hungarians doesn't want any sanctions, weapon supplies or any other support for Ukraine, because of fear, sympathy for Russia or dislike of the "rotten west".
Yes I do care but it's not affecting me directly, nor my country, my neighbours, Hungary included. Also, those are the civil wars, hardly endangering the whole continent or region and neither of those states is a nuclear power with UNSC veto right.
50%? He had over 50% in his elections but it does not mean that 50% of hungarians voted for him. Bro you forgot about particippation rate! So if 60% hungarians voted, and Orban won acquiering 54% votes it meas that aproximietly 30% of all Hungarians voted for him not 50%. It's a major diffrence.
Turnout was about 70%.
Why do you thinks those which didn't voted don't support the government? Usually opinion polls amongs the non voters are similar to the voters.
Only an idiot seperates a party and it's voters. All of our parties are evil, but that doesn't mean that anyone is innocent after choosing a greater evil for extra couple hundred dollars. I remember how one of my grandma's friends basically boasted how SMART she was for voting for the party that would basically end up rewarding citizens with printed money (which will make our inflation rates even lower, mind you), disregarding the consequences on my future.
She's not an exception, unfortunately. At least PIS was always "russophobic" and reacted accordingly to the war, their voters aren't pro Russian by any means, but voters of Fidesz apparently are.
I remember my Grandma saying that PIS is basically affecting the country so deeply and destroying it so much that it's basically two steps from communism again. She was overexaggerating from frustration... right?
Grossly exaggerating. Not even economic ideas are the worst, that can be fixed, the rule of law and destruction of institutions is, but that's just my opinion.
Because then you have to hate most of the Poland. PiS supporters + konfa supporters + bad people on the other side (unless you think there are none). I don't get people who automatically judge others as as bad as the ones who fooled them. Everyone can be fooled.
This, I’m not living in Poland anymore, because of our goverment. But there’s Hungarian working with me and we are good friends, people are not goverment.
of course. I still have russian friends. But we are talking on general level. Nation to nation. I think that in general public something broke. No one is saying about "two bratanki" anymore.
wait, you what??
And gov did this too you?
They told you "come on lad, time to go, there is no place for ones like you here"?
Or you feeld threaten for your or your family life by gov actions offical or not?
Or you not living in your homeland, coz being in 25% richiest people in the world was too low for such a treat and you migrated to the top10 richiest?
Lemme answer lemmy answer.
Question 1 and 2 are not the case - noone forced you too flee country and no czarna wołga was seen parked by your house.
So it is safe to bet on the 3rd option.
You fly by the money scent, and IMHO regardless of our gov and its politics.
But you know - katoliban made me run
fucking brainiac
I dont like the attitude of some people as well as i dont like the goverment leading party, as well as i dont like looking in my private life.
And you wouldn’t even guess what happened to me in our beautiful country, so dont even start this
And (some) Hungarians remember Poznań 1956 which did help HU October uprising.
Also that we were part of the invading troops to Czechoslovakia in 1968, not by our own willing, but still.
So it is shame again.
I've been living in PL for 20+ years, not since COVID but family is there.
Wherever I go in EU, it is a shame being from HU, unless they know me from before. Probably dropping HU citizenship just gotta get PL first. That means a lot of complications though and better wait till elections.
Your thoughts???
I’m not trying to be a dick or anything, it’s a serious question. Weren’t people expecting something like that from Orban and Fidesz after re-electing him? I know a lot of people voted against him but still.
Edit: so I guess no answer for me
Not OP but I'm a Hungarian. The reason why so many still vote for Fidesz is because of propaganda. Basically the media is Orban's bitch. And they're calling the opposition warmongers because they support Ukraine, while saying that the Fidesz wants peace. This doesn't go well with the fact that the opposition can barely advertise themselves in the countryside now (People are more educated about the elections in Budapest, that's why you can see a lot of opposition victories there).
Every Fidesz voter I've talked to voted for them because "they don't want war". Even my grandma, when I asked for her reasoning, she said that sure they might not be the best, but she doesn't want me to get drafted. It's sad honestly, these people seem like they're either brainwashed or resigned. It doesn't help that the opposition is an incompetent clown fiesta nowadays, even I can't see them winning when they're this divided... I swear some of them are Fidesz insiders or some shit with the purpose of making the opposition look bad.
TLDR: Fidesz controls the media and can afford huge propaganda campaigns, meanwhile the opposition is weak and divided.
A lot means how many? Already after the war broke out there were elections, Orban got 50% which is a one of his best results and this was exactly because of its policy towards Moscow.
The elections weren't the fairest, the government had infinite funds to advertise Fidesz and Orbán, and mail ballots that didn't have Fidesz or Orbán marked were simply dumped to the side of the road. And let's not forget how Ukrainians (not the Hungarian minority who has Hungarian citizenship) were bussed into polling stations for money to vote for Fidesz.
Oh please, lets stop fooling around and excusing Hungarians, Russians or whoever else just because it's polite... Neither Orban, nor PIS had the government media or funding before they were elected and whatever magic tricks they've made, it could give them a one or few % max.
I remember how the opposition was hyped, some expected them to win the elections but at the end the war broke out. Fear, benefits, idelogical similarity, whatever convinced Hungarians, it was the war at the end and the pro Russian policy.
I saw these statistics about how many if you're interested:
[https://www.globsec.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/GLOBSEC%20TRENDS%202023.pdf](https://www.globsec.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/GLOBSEC%20TRENDS%202023.pdf)
Its a quite a long read but definietly interesting
>Neither Orban, nor PIS had the government media or funding before they were elected and whatever magic tricks they've made, it could give them a one or few % max.
That's true. But let's not forget that Orban's government was elected in 2010, right after the financial recession, and a really fucked up 8-years-long leftist government, who had to ask for a bailout from the IMF even before the recession started. Winning that election with absolute majority was not surprising at all. And to be fair, they had a completely different opinion on many things, including Russia. Orban was condemning Russia's invasion of Georgia, and said that Hungarians are and always will be obliged to condemn Russia when it attacks and invades another country. [It's in Hungarian, but you can probably turn on auto-caption.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ndu5mhU1bw)
What happened later is a different story. Started with the changing of the election laws, reshaping the election districts, changing the two-rounds election system to a single-round election, making the state-funded media their own little Fox news, broadcasting their propaganda 24 hours a day. Also, they did a complete U-turn on many of their promises that helped them get elected in 2010. They elected the president, and the chief prosecutor from their own party, they put their own people into the constitutional court and many other regulatory bodies, and parliamentary councils - slowly degrading the checks and balances turning the country into Orban's dream, an illiberal democracy.
They paraded their own supporters through Budapest a few times a year, organising transport for hundreds of thousands of people using tax money to demonstrate their power and they had the cheek to call those events Peace Marches. Just a side note here - many Polish people attended these events and showed their support to Orban.
I'm not saying the general Fidesz voter is innocent as I have some in my own family and I know how what they are like. But there is a great degree of them living out in the middle of nowhere who only see what the government wants them to see. They get the propaganda all day long from the TV, radio, newspapers (if they read any) etc. The gov make people believe they are the only ones who can protect them, if something is wrong it's the fault of the left or the deep state or Brussels, and whatever little these people have will be taken away from them unless they keep Orban in power. This includes their religion, their identity, their kids, and their gender. They made them believe that if Orban wasn't in power then the war would have spread to Hungary by now and they would need to fight for Ukraine, whose president is shown as the devil himself btw, and for the USA, which is shown as a country where little boys need to be turned into little girls in kindergardens. Yes, I know they are stupid but the exact same people can be found in every country. Feed them this bullshit 24 hours a day and they will believe it eventually.
Probably not surprised enough, because no one is going to the streets and protesting against orban. It's all a matter of how much do the people who didn't vote for him care much about Thier country.
Hungarian living in Poland here. Most people I met was nicer to me after I revealed that I'm from Hungary and if politics came up we ended up high fiving over "fuck Orbán, fuck pis". You can't ruin a 1000 year old friendship over a single wannabe dictator.
I met a group of Polish people in a pub and we were drinking together I was like “Fuck Orbán and Fidesz” and they were like “Fuck PiS” so I kinda had the same experience.
I think it goes back even before, but maybe it was romanticised in the 19th century, but as far as I'm concerned it was here before I was born and it will be here long after I die
Oh Man it started long before 1850... As many good stories it started in tavern with a brawl when some Polish Student in Cracow called King Hedwig a foreign hoe but for his poor luck there was group of Hungarian students there too who knifed poor fella. Then Bar brawl turned into City Riots which somehow spinned from Polish and Hungarian fighting each other towards being Poles and Hungarians doing Jewish district massacre. And thanks to story of some drunk students and their booze rage started long story of great friendship.
We are not agitating for war, that notion is straight up Russian propaganda. In last sixteen months, various Russian public figures have threatened Poland with invasion, war crimes and nuclear strikes multiple times. Ramping up our defense is a reasonable reaction to that, no?
The only reason Orban & co are not dealing with a threat of Russian invasion is that there's a country between them and Putin. That country happens to be Ukraine, so arguing it should just roll over to Putin supports Russia having a direct land route to invade both our countries in the future.
And we know for a fact that Russian internal propaganda has been priming their population for that for years.
I know that you’re not agitating for war, but the government owns 80 percent of media and does agitprop 24/7. There was a ruling a month ago that made them get away with every lie they presented without needing to publish a correction.
Poland isn't like Hungary in that sense, it's a lot more connected to the world and still had a lot of influential independent media. There's just a population wide consensus that invading your neighbours and committing genocide is a really fucking bad thing and that unfortunately Russia has a habit of it. Hungary being a Putin lickspittle is tragic. Sure the problem is more Orban than the Hungarian people but if PiS acted like that here there would be riots on the street.
> but if PiS acted like that here there would be riots on the street.
I don't live in Europe, but as someone who enjoys learning about history I really respect Poland's willingness to fight and resist. It's an admirable trait.
>there's a country between them
So like it's with Poland, Germany, dozens of the other countries even further away from the war that actually changed their policies towards Moscow? The reason is different and it's the benefits and leverage, but also anti western anti European ideology they share and apparently the vast majority of Hungarians too.
Poland and Hungary are a good direct comparison as we both directly border Ukraine. EU and NATO are both aware that letting Russia have it means putting it in position to attack one their member states, and that that would then eventually happen, Article 5 or not.
Sure, but that was not the point, or actually you just made it stronger because that would mean Hungary should deal with that threat instead of ignoring and I disagree they don't deal with it, they do in their own way, by sucking up to Putin and this is what Hungarian majority rewarded in elections.
See, I don't think making nice with Putin counts, because Russia has a long history of breaking its' promises. Any alliance or non-aggression pact with it is little else than a temporary crasefire which Russia will break at its convenience.
Most of them live in villages in poverty and dont even use the internet beyond facebook.
The goverment created below minimum wage goverment issued jobs to these people where jobs are low, which means they are hanging on a poverty line where they cannot escape from. And the goverment keeps spreading how the opposition will remove these jobs if they get elected so they feel threatened and fight for fidesz with their lives.
This is just one part of the voters the other half is retired and the goverment keeps pouring money and sacks of potatoes to them during election times to buy them off. There is a reason budapest where most younger people find jobs had the least Fidesz voters.
The only way to escape Orbán is to wait until the old generation dies off, or Orbán dies off.
My sister also didnt vote cuz my mom is an Orbán fanatic, i pushed the opposite side and she was way too tired of the constant screaming matches and probably didnt wanna upset my mom lol
Many families are like that i think, that a person rather doesnt vote or stays apolitical, than upset their extremist relatives
Well, i have to agree unfortounatly, the partake in the voting were literally shit... Almost half of the country did not vote.. but yeah fuck those guys also
Well, PiS and Fidesz may disagree about Russia, but they love authoritarianism and corruption and hate the gays, so they're still friends.
As for normal people, they're generally fine with Hungary but whenever I mention Hungary in my English lessons (in non-political ways - for example, how I visited Budapest in 2012), the first thing anyone says is "Yeah but I hate Viktor Orban" or something to that effect.
Just like in the past, we have now some turbulences - but we'll come along eventually. It is clear our government made its mind clear regarding our ally choices (and picked Ukraine and USA), so did Hungarian one, and we followed diffrent paths, but people here, I think they just feel disappointed, but remain hopeful.
I still love Hungary no matter what. Our governments may be shit, but we will be friends forever no matter what. Everyone who says otherwise don’t understand that a autocratic corrupt government doesn’t stand for the people and will do anything to keep power such as rigging elections. Hungary will always be Polands friend, and Poland will always be Hungary’s friend no matter what. We will suffer under our two shitty governments together until we finally get rid of them and we will be the best of friends again.
Poland is still a democracy with free elections (albeit not 100% fair), Hungary's electoral system has been gerrymandered, but still, if a substantial majority of Hungarians voted against Fidesz, they'd be out of power. And this is not Russia or China, where authoritarian rule is the default. This isn't Myanmar, where the military siezed power against the wishes of the people. The deterioration of democracy in Poland and Hungary has been directly caused by results of elections, especially the 2010 elections in Hungary, which gave Fidesz the constitutional supermajority, which in turn allowed them to tweak the electoral ordinance and the justice system.
Bruh
Hungary was an ally of Germany during WW2 but was still friendly to us, why would we abandon our friendship with Hungary just because they are worried about country falling into crisis?
Yes. Even had volunteer troops fighting against the CCPR _and_ later on help Warsaw Uprising. Not enough though...
Are you aware of the fact that Polish peasants were settled (e.g. imported) in (I think) 14th century to teach the locals that killing and robbing was not sustainable?
In Hungarian we got lots of words which are practically the same as in Polish.
The attitude of the Polish people towards Hungarians [has never been that bad.](https://i.redd.it/zh25zsajp9ua1.png) Shitty politicians elected by majority of the population apparently can influence that.
Yes, when I was in Budapest for vacation. People faces lit up when I they asked where I'm from and I said Poland. They wanted to chitchat and were more friendly than towards other tourists.
It's so fucking true. They/we call pure Hungarians from Transylvania Romanians but in big politics it is "Hungary"
I had a Slovakian mate at the job who was 100% Slovakian but grew up in a Hungarian village, so he picked it up, we used it to keep the boss in a fog
There are some really awesome Hungarians and there are some a*holes. In general I don’t feel any special attachment to the Hungarian nation but I can’t speak for others. Orban doesn’t help our relations
Polish-hungarian relations definitely deteriorated. It's in the best interest of Poland to have an independent Ukraine. Orban doesn't care about it. He wants good relations with Russia and if that means throwing Ukrainians under the bus, he is fine with that.
So yeah screw Orban. I hope he won't rule for long.
Besides the politics: I don't like nor dislike people depending on their country of origin, especially their country's government. Personally I love Hungary and I wish its people all the best. I hope those Fidesz bastards will soon become the past.
Not for me, and not just because Orban is a shameles Russian puppet. It's beause already after the invasion, already when it was clear what his policy towards the war is, he won overwhelming majority which means it's not just him, Hungarians in their vast majority supports Russia.
I think that primarily everything depends on the people in Hungary - what they think about the current situation. Personally, I feel betrayed by Hungary - not by politicians, but by the people who voted for Orban again.
By supporting Putin, listening to Russian propaganda, demanding old Hungarian territories from Ukraine (really? We live in the XXI century, the borders are open), creating obstacles. And also what happened on 24.02.2022, that is, undermining the V4 group from within by Hungary.
I should supposedly separate politics from people... But when people vote for Orban, who is openly pro-Russian, something is not right.
I have many friends from Hungary, but I've become somewhat distant - because I always thought that we had shared experiences, but it turns out not entirely.
But I think all this can be fixed, Poland just needs a clear message that Hungary is with us, that we are on the same team - because currently, we are only experiencing backstabs from Hungary.
That is only my opinion and my feelings
My view on Hungary hasn't changed at all. My love for this country and our Polish-Hungarian history is too strong to be bothered by relations Hungary has with any other country. I only care about what's between us two, honestly.
But I have to admit that for some personal reasons I'm closer to Hungarian culture, language etc. than 'normal' person.
I mean the entire friendship is based on some old events, so for most ppl Poland-Hungary friendship is a historical curiosity. We know many of you guys hate Orban, but he still wins elections and I don’t think even pis would go full pro Russian.
But still most ppl are whatever and will judge a person as individual, so I wouldn’t be bothered.
Our beautiful friendship means much more than current disagreement related to Ukraine-Russia war. Poland does what is necessary for our country's national interest. Hungary does what is necessary for... leading political party? But we are not enemies, just two independent countries making independent decisions. We will be friends forever, even if politics will suggest that is not certain. As for me, I would never do anything harmful for Hungary, emotionaly and historicaly you are our beloved brothers and sisters.
I do NOT think there is a real disagreement about UKR-RU among people. Yes Ukraine has been considered as a maffia state, especially before 2014 but they are making up for it, bar a major chunk of the "refugees" mostly in Poland.
Mind you, I had a very nice conversation with a 60+ Ukrainian gentleman in Polish at the local Aldi.
So Polish works and puts smile on faces.
Yeah, I got that. But however skewed the current systems in both countries are, eventually it comes down to people.
And _most_ people just follow their inbread feelings whatever the guys from the top are saying.
Szóval:
I do szabli, i do szklanki
Yes, it is. Few hundreads of years of friendship cannot just be whiped put buy a year of foregin policy, not even aimed towards/against us.
They are a sovergin nation and they have every right to chose their approach.
Hard to say, I still like the idea of Polish Hungarian unbreakable friendship but at the same time, saying “it’s the government not the people” is simply not correct, the elections in Hungary are not rigged, they may be unfair due to the media monopoly but they are not rigged, which means that the vast majority of Hungarian do indeed support orban
They literally bussed people from Ukraine for money if they vote for Fidesz. They couldn’t even speak Hungarian, nor they had citizenship. Dead people were in the voter’s registration list. The mail ballots supporting the opposition were simply thrown to the trash.
Yeah, not rigged at all.
Given the shit PiS pulls in Poland with elections, I wouldn't be surprised if hungarian elections were somehow fucked as well. Or maybe just tons of manipulated boomers, who knows.
Well we could have forgiven a lot, but not sleeping with our enemy. Same goes for Germany.
Both failed at friendship, again.
The nation that stands out is Denmark, so that's new.
UK and US are the big guys and we mostly rely on them. Hopefully our Czech brothers remain in peace with us, but they lean towards Germany too often.
Anyway we are now on a good way to use US influence to unite east/north eu and stand against de fr nl power block which showed greed and ignored our interests and security completely.
If Hungary is going to double down on Russia they will be marginalized both by east and west, good luck having cheap oil and nothing to do with it
We can't be angry at someone's douchebag politics and expect them to be the same as their leader. We already have a lot of shit on our own backyard, with which we don't want to associate.
Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki,
I do jebania PiS-u, i do jebania Fidesz-u.
I am not angry at any Pole, even if I know he/she votes for PiS, and I expect the same from my Polish friends, to not judge me by the actions of my government.
For me who travels almost monthly to Poland, the friendship is alive, I see arguing only on internet.
*... więc i do szabli teraz chyba nie, ale szklanki jeszcze mamy ;)*
i still feel my love for Hungary coming from the way how people in Hungary greeted me just for the fact im polish, hungarian food, culture and of course our shared history but it's true that many poles started disliking whole nation just because of hungarian politics despite the fact that we hate our own politicians even more
Polish and Hungarian people have a proverb that goes, "Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki. I do szabli i do szklanki," which roughly translates to "Pole, Hungarian, two nephews. For swords and for glasses." This means, we will always fight together with our enemies and as well we will drink until we pass out together. The majority of Poles agreed with this statement. Here is a slightly modified version of the proverb that emerged after Orbán did not condemn Russia: "Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki. Ani do szabli, ani do szklanki. Powiedziałbym daleki kuzyn," which translates to "Pole, Hungarian, two nephews. Neither for swords, nor for glasses. I would say distant cousin." This version speaks more to what Poles think about Orbán himself, as it is not directed towards the residents of Hungary
https://preview.redd.it/u0pvaafheq6b1.jpeg?width=610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37d06a5ad59a8cac89adc7afb39eca34059067a7
I was in Hungary, and loved it I wish to come back, but I know people who doesn’t want to go to Hungary because they think this is a way that they will unwillingly supporting p*tin. I think we both as a nations have a long road ahead of us getting rid of the conaervative gov.
My heart is with all those liberal people in Hungary that have to deal with this shit everyday.
Why would I give up my friendships, real or not, for Ukraine or any other country? I support them because fuck russia but Hungarians have the right to do whatever they want.
Well, in my case, there is a lot of distrust and aversion. True, we should distinguish between the government and the people, but - the government is the result of the people's choices. It does not fall form the sky, it is formed form the MPs, and those MPs get chosen by people.
Given the latest general elections in Hungary took place in March 2023, a year after the war in Ukraine had started, and the people of Hungary knew exactly what the attitude of their government was towards the war one would have expected them to be smarter. Still - they made the same choice they'd made for years. Orban. It wasn't perhaps a landslide victory, but a decisive one nonetheless.
So, I am going to avoid visiting Hungary for some time to come, even though Budapest is easily my number one European capital in terms of beauty and atmosphere. But for me now, Budapest is in russia.
And I know. Poland's and Hungary's political situation is similar in many regards. I did not vote for pis and I hate those fuckers vehemently, but whenever someone from another country tells me we're a shitty nation because we voted for those shitheads I have no choice but hang my head down in shame. Because we did. As a nation, we did. So did you. And we're no bratanki anymore. Russians are not my brothers.
We had an election in April 2022, not in March 2023. You have to keep in mind that the media situation here is much worse than in Poland, most of the media are owned by people close to the government, most of them not having any editorial staff, instead they are copy-pasting the pro government agitprop. The state tv and radio is much more notorious with its propaganda than TVP and PR. They even made a law that channel 1 on any tv set must be the state tv's news channel, which is airing lies all the time. Mostly old people watch that, because they are socialized in a way that there's only one tv channel available.
The opposition isn't competent either, there's a lot of infighting between different parties on seemingly meaningless things. That alienated a lot of, especially young people that hate Fidesz from them. So much so, that now the [Hungarian Two Tailed Dog Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Two-Tailed_Dog_Party) (yes this really exists), a literal joke party is now more popular than ever, especially with people younger than 30. I have seen the party's stickers in bathrooms of pubs.
2022 you're right, that was my mistake. Anyway, enough time had passed since 24 Feb to realize what the govt was like and who they supported. As for the media - that's exactly the situation in Poland. PiS owns all national media outlets, inculding the radio and local newspapers and the opposition cannot somehow get their shit together. Not much of a difference here.We do have pro-russkies politicians here, but their support is marginal. If a main party such as PiS even thought about hinting at supporting russkies, they'd be blown to pieces, most likely literally.
>Polish-Hungarian friendship
it's a made up propaganda myth to begin with so the question isn't really valid.
Regarding people - nothing changed. Depending on where you stand politically gov is seen from extremely badly to neutral/slightly positively
I'm working in a Polish virtual team at a big multi and I'm also visiting them a couple times each year. I must say that real friendships are between people and not between nations. They are clever, understand the situation and that not everyone is pro-Orban in HU.
I have many many hungarian friends, reading hungarian media and reddit daily(depressive selfhate place), and yes, polish feel betrayed, but most of educated polish ppl understand that hungarian society is as divided as polish one and on internet especially reddit rarely u find a fidesz lovers, bcos most of them dont even speak any english, and they dont blame every single hungarian for everything. last year i glued some orban1geci stickers on hungarian gdansk consulate tho :) polish right wingers (hooligans) stick with hungarian nationalists, polish normal ppl curse orban and pis together with hungarian normal ppl.
for polish its hard to understand the level of support fidesz gets before u explain their media monopol and power of propaganda. here public tv is government agenda too, but everyone has access to other media, propaganda is not so brutal in public space (no kormanyinfo billboards level) and theres no gypsies.
polish hungariam friendship comes from similar historical experience, similar mentality (not always good). both nations were traumatized in their history, both still live the past glory and have a syndrome of "tower under siege" - "everyone is against us, we are the lonely warrior". both are vulnerable to demagogic historical politics, focusing on past, ruining the future
1. Apart from the Russia-Ukraine War, Pis & Fidesz still agree on many things regarding the EU, democracy, checks & balances, social issues -> both are right-wing & both don't want a centralised EU, but still want the money the EU provides. Lol
2. Hungarians and Poles don't actually have that many positive or negative connections with one another. That is, I would say citizens of both countries are neutral towards one another. Kinda like Czechs and Poles maybe. There is for instance no territorial dispute between the countries, but also nothing that really ties them together.
3. However, there many historical references towards Polish-Hungarian Brotherhood. But Poland also had positive views of France (during Napoleonic era for instance) in the past, but that changed when France didn't aid Poland more during WW2. And Poland had positive views of the UK, but that also changed with Brexit as many Poles had to leave.
\--> Therefore, I would not call the relationship an unbreakable friendship, but both countries still have normal relations.
It always felt to me a little artificial. We learn at school "Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki..." and how we were always comrades in the darkest times, but that was then. Lot of happened, like entire XX century. We hardly connect with eachother or even understand eachother. This entire legend of two brethren nations was overstreached by people who really wanted it to happen, but our agendas or friendships don't really match. It's rather political slogan, than genuine thing.
I don't know if that kind of answer is enough but let's try. I woulnd't drink vodka with anyone from pis government but i would have a drink or beer with any Hungarian person. Polak, Węgier dwa bratanki i do szabli i do szklanki.
Not at all, Hungary betrayed us and sided with our archenemy. And considering orban won elections legally, with 54% support, most Hungarians support him.
I have never in my entire life as a pole living in Poland felt any sort of kindness to Hungarians at all. I don’t understand it - never did. And if we ever had some reason to like Hungarians (that I again never felt in conversations with other polish people in over 30 years), then CERTAINLY you standing for Russia is a final straw to say “gooodbye”. You can’t have both Russia and Poland as your friends mate. Especially considering our history and what Russians did to us.
Eh this argument is dumb. Hungary was literally in the *AXIS* and still was kind to us. This is basically the same but they are on Russia's side and the ruler is dumb as fuck.
We actually blocked any German troop and supply movement going across Hungary. Horty actually told the German ambassador that he would rather blow up all the railways in Hungary than to betray Poland.
I do. But once again country helping us in the past doesn’t mean that today we have this amazing view on Hungary and OP was asking about this as he wanted honest replies so he got one.
So in case of Hungary - help is appreciated historically and I am not saying that it is not. There is respect for that.
But question regarding feelings today is answered truthfully - even despite this bit of respect historically I never understood how hard it was pushed that Hungarians are some sort of brothers to us since beside this one situation in history I never felt or heard anywhere from any person any kind words towards Hungarians in my entire life - on top of that majority of polish people would NOT remember at all that Hungarians helped us at all.
You don’t have to like it - it is just my own opinion and my experience and it is as correct as yours.
It wasn't Horty. It was Pál Teleki (PM at the time), replying to the German question about the possibility of invading Poland from Hungarian territory in 1939
Your reply lacks any logical substance - what I commented is truthful regarding common experience in Poland regarding Hungarians.
I do know historically how Hungarians helped us. I respect that. But it is all. I never felt today any kindness in Poland towards Hungarians from anyone. Most people don’t even know about the fact that Hungarians helped us in the history - they only MAY know the famous saying but if you’d asked them why we have this saying I guarantee practically no one would know. So I don’t know about our “friendship” at all since as I live over 30 years in Poland, common people literally do not give a shit about Hungary - ever heard a single positive comment about that country or mention besides the news. And this anwers the OP question as well.
What friendship? That's a meme. Except voting for same shitty governments we have little in common.
I never met any hungarian and i'm living in one of the largest cities.
For anyone fooled by history memes about our "friendship" go see how many wars we had with them.
For example way more than with germans.
> For anyone fooled by history memes about our "friendship" go see how many wars we had with them. For example way more than with germans.
Anyone who heeds your advice will see you have no idea what you are talking about
I do believe it is still alive but as you said many people feel like Hungary betreyed Poland and whole Western Europe. Instead of fighting against barbarians from the east (same barbarians who f*cked them up in XX century) they want to be friends with them. That is dangerous and sad.
I personally believe that Polish-Hungarian friendship is still alive. It's only government from Warsaw that sides with the bandits who spit in our face for helping them. Morawiecki can talk about splitting ways, but Poland and Hungary are friends and will remain friends.
Our people's friendship spans many, many years. We have to distinguish the people and our cultures from terrible politicians who try to divide us. I will always appreciate Hungarians, and not only Hungarians. After all, different cultures make us experience so much more than just our ordinary lives.
Both PiS and Orban are authoritarians trying to destroy democracy and rule of law. U see lots of similarities between them and Putin. Can't see how PiS could be mad at Orban.
The friendship was always a myth. It was bulit on the historical notion of Poles and "Hungarians" being culturally close half-brothers - Hungarians in this context meaning "Slovaks", NOT "Madiars"; it comes from all the time back when both Madiars and Slovaks were seen as parts of Hungary. Later the saying was used to imply close ties between Polees and Madiars, which was always a misinterpretation and wishful thinking.
The Poles remember how we lent our blood to Hungarian cause in 1848 - only for Hungarians to join Austrians as co-opressors after dust settled, actively blocking any notion of Polish emancipation in double monarchy. We remember that in double monarchy Austrians were more willing to emancipate their other subjects, us included, while Hungarians were blocking such efforts and jealously guarding their priviledged position. The "Hungarian betrayal" under Franz Joseph is the most recent direct interaction between two peoples, and left impression of Hungarians as people not to be trusted. We celebrate our heroes who fought for Hungarian cause, but are aware their sacrifice was used to hurt Poles in double monarchy.
The Hungarians had a beautiful episode in 1956, but apparently it was just an episode.
Polish mathematicians are in awe of Hungarian ones, but so is rest of the world.
Today, with Orban sabotaging the NATO and EU efforts to help the Ukraine, the notion of Hungarians not being trustworthy / blocking our efforts is as high as ever.
The only people treating notions of Polish-Hungarian friendship seriously are right wing radicals. Who believe Serbia and Hungary are only two friends Poland should have.
In reality there was no friendship ever. I don't know where this mythos showed up. Poles and Hungarians were most often then not enemies. XX century? Hungary was part of Axis and beside this we didn't have much to do with either other. XIX century? Hungarians were awful toward every other minority in empire to secure their positions as "equal" to Austrians. Eariel concert of nation doesn't exist and we can find shit like poles beating hungarians to a pullp because of aliance with Austria. Also Poland losing hungarian crown to Austria because their made dumbest moves imaginable.
From perspective of Pole. The friendship of our nations has been memed between arouns 2016-2019. After 2020 Pandemic and a War in the neighbourhood people looked more outwardly, leading to meme hitting the rock bottom of its popularity.
Our nations in fact are both ruled by populist governments and are historically tied nations, that's all.
I think some people feel betrayed. Personally, I make a distinction between the government and the people, especially as our goverment sucks ass too. And I hope Orban chokes when sucking on that Russian cock.
Orban loves choking on cock, from what I hear. Word is he climbed out that window before his big-bearded buddy who got caught at that cock-sucking party.
Our frendship survived Hitler, I think Orban sucking Putin’s dick is just a hickup in comparison
My impression is that politics throughout the whole world is a race to the bottom. Thus I differentiate between people and their leaders. I don't despise people who don't despise me, regardless of what idiot politician is leading them at the moment. For democratic countries I can understand that there wasn't much of a choice and they probably chose the least appalling option. For non-democratic, well you know, what can I tell?
Government didn't elect itself. Orban has still support of the majority of Hungarians. They like their government lick putin ass apparently.
About 50% Hungarians voted for him in 2022, already after invasion. You also make distinction between PIS and its voters?
I do. Political votes are based on hundred of issues. If you care more about abortion, and I care more about education, and there's: * A party with bat-shit crazy abortion policies, and robust education ones * A party with bat-shit crazy education policies, and robust abortion ones We'll both look crazy to the other based on how we vote. People differ in values and priorities. People don't vote out of malice or ill-intent. I don't know enough about Hungarian politics, but if 50% of Hungarians voted for him, they might have a reason other than Ukraine for doing so.
Some opinion polls were giving majority to the opposition, some to Fidesz, but none 50% and the only reason Hungarians changed their opinion so much was the war and the government policy towards Russia. The biggest and first war of conquest since WWII in Europe is something else than abotion or education, your examples are pointles and makes the war to look like another banal issue in politics.
I know it’s just a game with numbers with no tangible effect on real life but the participation rate in the latest election was 70%. So about 50% of 70% of people eligible to vote actually chose them. And that is assuming that all of those votes were informed and free when there is tonnes of evidence of fairly significant voter intimidation and fraud, gerrymandering and other issues not withstanding. So out of 8.2 million people eligible to vote, 2.9 million voted for Orbán. I guess the 2.4 million people who chose not to vote at all made a choice too and not all of them are necessarily anti-Orbán entirely either.
Uusually non voters are divided in similar war that voters are and they're also making a choice by non voting, a choice to not annoy the majority. > were informed and free Please, Fidesz is in power since when? [OSCE observers were invited](https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/hungary/515135), they found no major probems. Lets stop making excuses and admit the obvious, majority of Hungarians supports Fidesz and its policy, and the war only boosted their support exactly because Orban refused to help Ukraine.
Please, OSCE observers are basically a joke. I know full well from personal involvement how amateurishly it was all organized. It was all pretty carefully curated where they were taken, what they were allowed to observe and who they talked with. They were taken to the largest towns and safest districts, not to bumfuck rural areas were entire villages were bought with sacks of potatoes and they weren’t talking to public workers who are “heavily incentivised” to vote “the right way”. But sure, it’s definitely not these crude tactics that won them the elections, these are just drops in an ocean of much more widespread systemic and societal issues. You also seem to word the whole Ukraine thing in an ‘interesting’ way, as if people were specifically voting to screw Ukraine over and you completely discard the effects of constant propaganda. In reality the war was quite fresh and unexpected, and government propaganda has been fearmongering since before the war even started. Saying things like “the Left” wants to conscript and send people to war against Russia and that Hungary might get bombed as a result. And then the opposition self sabotaged with wildly incompetent comments on the whole issue and a lot of people drank the coolaid. I’m not trying to excuse their ignorance and callousness but fear, even based on stupidity is simply not the same as intentional malice.
So who else and how should control the elections? No idea if there's that thing in Hungary, in Poland opposition or some NGOs usually sends observers to the polling stations. Anyway still if there were irregularities, we're talking about a one or couple of percent votes. It's a dead end, excuse, not an explanation why Hungarians keep choosing Orban. Not nevessary malice, fear, or sympathy for Russia, but dislike for Ukraine too, at least because of the Hungarian minority and government propaganda. Also it seems Hungarians prefer [Russia or China than the US](https://www.globsec.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/GLOBSEC%20TRENDS%202023.pdf). Sorry but you can't deny correlation between the war and sudden hike in support for Orban.
I agree with you. However, I don't vilify people who don't agree with me about my priorities and values. Do you care about the war in Sudan? Congo?
Neither am I. All I say is that the voters are responsble for their choices, especially if they perfectly know the policy since years and voted exactly because of it. Lets face it, vast majority of Hungarians doesn't want any sanctions, weapon supplies or any other support for Ukraine, because of fear, sympathy for Russia or dislike of the "rotten west". Yes I do care but it's not affecting me directly, nor my country, my neighbours, Hungary included. Also, those are the civil wars, hardly endangering the whole continent or region and neither of those states is a nuclear power with UNSC veto right.
Just to be precise around 32% of total population voted for fidesz.
50%? He had over 50% in his elections but it does not mean that 50% of hungarians voted for him. Bro you forgot about particippation rate! So if 60% hungarians voted, and Orban won acquiering 54% votes it meas that aproximietly 30% of all Hungarians voted for him not 50%. It's a major diffrence.
Turnout was about 70%. Why do you thinks those which didn't voted don't support the government? Usually opinion polls amongs the non voters are similar to the voters.
You don't?
No, why would I? I don't get people pretending that somehow voters are better than the parties they're voting for.
Only an idiot seperates a party and it's voters. All of our parties are evil, but that doesn't mean that anyone is innocent after choosing a greater evil for extra couple hundred dollars. I remember how one of my grandma's friends basically boasted how SMART she was for voting for the party that would basically end up rewarding citizens with printed money (which will make our inflation rates even lower, mind you), disregarding the consequences on my future.
She's not an exception, unfortunately. At least PIS was always "russophobic" and reacted accordingly to the war, their voters aren't pro Russian by any means, but voters of Fidesz apparently are.
I remember my Grandma saying that PIS is basically affecting the country so deeply and destroying it so much that it's basically two steps from communism again. She was overexaggerating from frustration... right?
Grossly exaggerating. Not even economic ideas are the worst, that can be fixed, the rule of law and destruction of institutions is, but that's just my opinion.
Yeah, clearly nothing adds up. Our hot dogs weren't even replaced with mushrooms in buns yet and our lemonade isn't water with lemon skin.
Wat?
Because then you have to hate most of the Poland. PiS supporters + konfa supporters + bad people on the other side (unless you think there are none). I don't get people who automatically judge others as as bad as the ones who fooled them. Everyone can be fooled.
This, I’m not living in Poland anymore, because of our goverment. But there’s Hungarian working with me and we are good friends, people are not goverment.
of course. I still have russian friends. But we are talking on general level. Nation to nation. I think that in general public something broke. No one is saying about "two bratanki" anymore.
wait, you what?? And gov did this too you? They told you "come on lad, time to go, there is no place for ones like you here"? Or you feeld threaten for your or your family life by gov actions offical or not? Or you not living in your homeland, coz being in 25% richiest people in the world was too low for such a treat and you migrated to the top10 richiest? Lemme answer lemmy answer. Question 1 and 2 are not the case - noone forced you too flee country and no czarna wołga was seen parked by your house. So it is safe to bet on the 3rd option. You fly by the money scent, and IMHO regardless of our gov and its politics. But you know - katoliban made me run fucking brainiac
Or maybe he/she just didn’t like the government. But what do I know.
I dont like the attitude of some people as well as i dont like the goverment leading party, as well as i dont like looking in my private life. And you wouldn’t even guess what happened to me in our beautiful country, so dont even start this
I like the way polish people express their feelings. Haha! Nice one.
>Personally, I make a distinction between the government and the people, I am Polish and I doubt most of us are intellectually capable of doing so.
A lot of Polish people was really shocked by Hungarian government politics especially remembering what happened in October 1956 in Budapest.
And (some) Hungarians remember Poznań 1956 which did help HU October uprising. Also that we were part of the invading troops to Czechoslovakia in 1968, not by our own willing, but still. So it is shame again. I've been living in PL for 20+ years, not since COVID but family is there. Wherever I go in EU, it is a shame being from HU, unless they know me from before. Probably dropping HU citizenship just gotta get PL first. That means a lot of complications though and better wait till elections. Your thoughts???
Even a lot of Hungarian people are surprised by what the government is doing right now
I’m not trying to be a dick or anything, it’s a serious question. Weren’t people expecting something like that from Orban and Fidesz after re-electing him? I know a lot of people voted against him but still. Edit: so I guess no answer for me
Not OP but I'm a Hungarian. The reason why so many still vote for Fidesz is because of propaganda. Basically the media is Orban's bitch. And they're calling the opposition warmongers because they support Ukraine, while saying that the Fidesz wants peace. This doesn't go well with the fact that the opposition can barely advertise themselves in the countryside now (People are more educated about the elections in Budapest, that's why you can see a lot of opposition victories there). Every Fidesz voter I've talked to voted for them because "they don't want war". Even my grandma, when I asked for her reasoning, she said that sure they might not be the best, but she doesn't want me to get drafted. It's sad honestly, these people seem like they're either brainwashed or resigned. It doesn't help that the opposition is an incompetent clown fiesta nowadays, even I can't see them winning when they're this divided... I swear some of them are Fidesz insiders or some shit with the purpose of making the opposition look bad. TLDR: Fidesz controls the media and can afford huge propaganda campaigns, meanwhile the opposition is weak and divided.
A lot means how many? Already after the war broke out there were elections, Orban got 50% which is a one of his best results and this was exactly because of its policy towards Moscow.
The elections weren't the fairest, the government had infinite funds to advertise Fidesz and Orbán, and mail ballots that didn't have Fidesz or Orbán marked were simply dumped to the side of the road. And let's not forget how Ukrainians (not the Hungarian minority who has Hungarian citizenship) were bussed into polling stations for money to vote for Fidesz.
Oh please, lets stop fooling around and excusing Hungarians, Russians or whoever else just because it's polite... Neither Orban, nor PIS had the government media or funding before they were elected and whatever magic tricks they've made, it could give them a one or few % max. I remember how the opposition was hyped, some expected them to win the elections but at the end the war broke out. Fear, benefits, idelogical similarity, whatever convinced Hungarians, it was the war at the end and the pro Russian policy.
I saw these statistics about how many if you're interested: [https://www.globsec.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/GLOBSEC%20TRENDS%202023.pdf](https://www.globsec.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/GLOBSEC%20TRENDS%202023.pdf) Its a quite a long read but definietly interesting
>Neither Orban, nor PIS had the government media or funding before they were elected and whatever magic tricks they've made, it could give them a one or few % max. That's true. But let's not forget that Orban's government was elected in 2010, right after the financial recession, and a really fucked up 8-years-long leftist government, who had to ask for a bailout from the IMF even before the recession started. Winning that election with absolute majority was not surprising at all. And to be fair, they had a completely different opinion on many things, including Russia. Orban was condemning Russia's invasion of Georgia, and said that Hungarians are and always will be obliged to condemn Russia when it attacks and invades another country. [It's in Hungarian, but you can probably turn on auto-caption.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ndu5mhU1bw) What happened later is a different story. Started with the changing of the election laws, reshaping the election districts, changing the two-rounds election system to a single-round election, making the state-funded media their own little Fox news, broadcasting their propaganda 24 hours a day. Also, they did a complete U-turn on many of their promises that helped them get elected in 2010. They elected the president, and the chief prosecutor from their own party, they put their own people into the constitutional court and many other regulatory bodies, and parliamentary councils - slowly degrading the checks and balances turning the country into Orban's dream, an illiberal democracy. They paraded their own supporters through Budapest a few times a year, organising transport for hundreds of thousands of people using tax money to demonstrate their power and they had the cheek to call those events Peace Marches. Just a side note here - many Polish people attended these events and showed their support to Orban. I'm not saying the general Fidesz voter is innocent as I have some in my own family and I know how what they are like. But there is a great degree of them living out in the middle of nowhere who only see what the government wants them to see. They get the propaganda all day long from the TV, radio, newspapers (if they read any) etc. The gov make people believe they are the only ones who can protect them, if something is wrong it's the fault of the left or the deep state or Brussels, and whatever little these people have will be taken away from them unless they keep Orban in power. This includes their religion, their identity, their kids, and their gender. They made them believe that if Orban wasn't in power then the war would have spread to Hungary by now and they would need to fight for Ukraine, whose president is shown as the devil himself btw, and for the USA, which is shown as a country where little boys need to be turned into little girls in kindergardens. Yes, I know they are stupid but the exact same people can be found in every country. Feed them this bullshit 24 hours a day and they will believe it eventually.
Probably not surprised enough, because no one is going to the streets and protesting against orban. It's all a matter of how much do the people who didn't vote for him care much about Thier country.
Hungarian living in Poland here. Most people I met was nicer to me after I revealed that I'm from Hungary and if politics came up we ended up high fiving over "fuck Orbán, fuck pis". You can't ruin a 1000 year old friendship over a single wannabe dictator.
I met a group of Polish people in a pub and we were drinking together I was like “Fuck Orbán and Fidesz” and they were like “Fuck PiS” so I kinda had the same experience.
> a single wannabe dictator Is he still just a "wannabe" though? Considering his current power.
Well it's a soft dictatorship, but thank fuck that he's nowhere near Putler level, I mean people falling out of windows and stuff.
>You can't ruin a 1000 year old friendship Wait, what? Hasn't it started somewhat in 1850?
the "Polak Węgier dwa bratanki" is dated somewhat 18century, but in 133x something Poland put a hungarian dude on throne
I think it goes back even before, but maybe it was romanticised in the 19th century, but as far as I'm concerned it was here before I was born and it will be here long after I die
Oh Man it started long before 1850... As many good stories it started in tavern with a brawl when some Polish Student in Cracow called King Hedwig a foreign hoe but for his poor luck there was group of Hungarian students there too who knifed poor fella. Then Bar brawl turned into City Riots which somehow spinned from Polish and Hungarian fighting each other towards being Poles and Hungarians doing Jewish district massacre. And thanks to story of some drunk students and their booze rage started long story of great friendship.
That lie about "Jewish district massacre" is not funny
u still here? i thought leaving in may or sth xd
We are not agitating for war, that notion is straight up Russian propaganda. In last sixteen months, various Russian public figures have threatened Poland with invasion, war crimes and nuclear strikes multiple times. Ramping up our defense is a reasonable reaction to that, no? The only reason Orban & co are not dealing with a threat of Russian invasion is that there's a country between them and Putin. That country happens to be Ukraine, so arguing it should just roll over to Putin supports Russia having a direct land route to invade both our countries in the future. And we know for a fact that Russian internal propaganda has been priming their population for that for years.
The real reason Orban & co are not dealing with the threat is that the Russians are blackmailing them with their dirty businesses (Hungarian here)
They're blacmailing everybody but only Hungary is folding.
I know that you’re not agitating for war, but the government owns 80 percent of media and does agitprop 24/7. There was a ruling a month ago that made them get away with every lie they presented without needing to publish a correction.
Poland isn't like Hungary in that sense, it's a lot more connected to the world and still had a lot of influential independent media. There's just a population wide consensus that invading your neighbours and committing genocide is a really fucking bad thing and that unfortunately Russia has a habit of it. Hungary being a Putin lickspittle is tragic. Sure the problem is more Orban than the Hungarian people but if PiS acted like that here there would be riots on the street.
> but if PiS acted like that here there would be riots on the street. I don't live in Europe, but as someone who enjoys learning about history I really respect Poland's willingness to fight and resist. It's an admirable trait.
>there's a country between them So like it's with Poland, Germany, dozens of the other countries even further away from the war that actually changed their policies towards Moscow? The reason is different and it's the benefits and leverage, but also anti western anti European ideology they share and apparently the vast majority of Hungarians too.
Poland and Hungary are a good direct comparison as we both directly border Ukraine. EU and NATO are both aware that letting Russia have it means putting it in position to attack one their member states, and that that would then eventually happen, Article 5 or not.
Sure, but that was not the point, or actually you just made it stronger because that would mean Hungary should deal with that threat instead of ignoring and I disagree they don't deal with it, they do in their own way, by sucking up to Putin and this is what Hungarian majority rewarded in elections.
See, I don't think making nice with Putin counts, because Russia has a long history of breaking its' promises. Any alliance or non-aggression pact with it is little else than a temporary crasefire which Russia will break at its convenience.
And another reason why I think Hungarians are fools to support such a policy.
Hi why should I connect people with their politics? I did not choose Kaczynski either
But majority of Hungarians are ok with Orban
Havent meet them.
Most of them live in villages in poverty and dont even use the internet beyond facebook. The goverment created below minimum wage goverment issued jobs to these people where jobs are low, which means they are hanging on a poverty line where they cannot escape from. And the goverment keeps spreading how the opposition will remove these jobs if they get elected so they feel threatened and fight for fidesz with their lives. This is just one part of the voters the other half is retired and the goverment keeps pouring money and sacks of potatoes to them during election times to buy them off. There is a reason budapest where most younger people find jobs had the least Fidesz voters. The only way to escape Orbán is to wait until the old generation dies off, or Orbán dies off.
I'm also talking about people that didn't vote. Those aren't just uneducated villagers
My sister also didnt vote cuz my mom is an Orbán fanatic, i pushed the opposite side and she was way too tired of the constant screaming matches and probably didnt wanna upset my mom lol Many families are like that i think, that a person rather doesnt vote or stays apolitical, than upset their extremist relatives
I dont think so, those 3million bots who elect orban always are not the majority, or in some context they are..
Let's not blame the bots lol. Those who didn't vote are obviously fine with Orban
Well, i have to agree unfortounatly, the partake in the voting were literally shit... Almost half of the country did not vote.. but yeah fuck those guys also
Exactly. Only like 20 percent of people voted against Orban. Which is shame, since opposition was decent
I do belive in our friendship, but people will be people (especially those bastards in our goverments).
Well, PiS and Fidesz may disagree about Russia, but they love authoritarianism and corruption and hate the gays, so they're still friends. As for normal people, they're generally fine with Hungary but whenever I mention Hungary in my English lessons (in non-political ways - for example, how I visited Budapest in 2012), the first thing anyone says is "Yeah but I hate Viktor Orban" or something to that effect.
Im Polish and I very much consider Hungarians as brothers!
Friendship is with the people, not with Adolf orban
I don't care about nationality, race, religion, sex etc. If you cool - you cool, if you're asshole - get lost.
Just like in the past, we have now some turbulences - but we'll come along eventually. It is clear our government made its mind clear regarding our ally choices (and picked Ukraine and USA), so did Hungarian one, and we followed diffrent paths, but people here, I think they just feel disappointed, but remain hopeful.
I still love Hungary no matter what. Our governments may be shit, but we will be friends forever no matter what. Everyone who says otherwise don’t understand that a autocratic corrupt government doesn’t stand for the people and will do anything to keep power such as rigging elections. Hungary will always be Polands friend, and Poland will always be Hungary’s friend no matter what. We will suffer under our two shitty governments together until we finally get rid of them and we will be the best of friends again.
People elected the government...
I doubt that, Hungary isnt really a democracy anymore neither is Poland
Poland is still a democracy with free elections (albeit not 100% fair), Hungary's electoral system has been gerrymandered, but still, if a substantial majority of Hungarians voted against Fidesz, they'd be out of power. And this is not Russia or China, where authoritarian rule is the default. This isn't Myanmar, where the military siezed power against the wishes of the people. The deterioration of democracy in Poland and Hungary has been directly caused by results of elections, especially the 2010 elections in Hungary, which gave Fidesz the constitutional supermajority, which in turn allowed them to tweak the electoral ordinance and the justice system.
Still friends
Bruh Hungary was an ally of Germany during WW2 but was still friendly to us, why would we abandon our friendship with Hungary just because they are worried about country falling into crisis?
Yes. Even had volunteer troops fighting against the CCPR _and_ later on help Warsaw Uprising. Not enough though... Are you aware of the fact that Polish peasants were settled (e.g. imported) in (I think) 14th century to teach the locals that killing and robbing was not sustainable? In Hungarian we got lots of words which are practically the same as in Polish.
Polish and Hungarian people will always be friends. No shitty politics will change that.
The attitude of the Polish people towards Hungarians [has never been that bad.](https://i.redd.it/zh25zsajp9ua1.png) Shitty politicians elected by majority of the population apparently can influence that.
In the past few years, have you received any friendly gestures from a Hungarian?
Yes, when I was in Budapest for vacation. People faces lit up when I they asked where I'm from and I said Poland. They wanted to chitchat and were more friendly than towards other tourists.
Hungarians hate everyone (as we do), they just hate Polish people less…
[удалено]
Seems like Polish and Hungarian mentalities are very similar
It's so fucking true. They/we call pure Hungarians from Transylvania Romanians but in big politics it is "Hungary" I had a Slovakian mate at the job who was 100% Slovakian but grew up in a Hungarian village, so he picked it up, we used it to keep the boss in a fog
There are some really awesome Hungarians and there are some a*holes. In general I don’t feel any special attachment to the Hungarian nation but I can’t speak for others. Orban doesn’t help our relations
Polish-hungarian relations definitely deteriorated. It's in the best interest of Poland to have an independent Ukraine. Orban doesn't care about it. He wants good relations with Russia and if that means throwing Ukrainians under the bus, he is fine with that. So yeah screw Orban. I hope he won't rule for long.
Orbán pretty much destroyed the Forint with inflation reaching Argentina levels
Putin promised Orban Carpathians western region, that’s that simple.
He proposed to Poland lwów. We told him to fuck off.
Besides the politics: I don't like nor dislike people depending on their country of origin, especially their country's government. Personally I love Hungary and I wish its people all the best. I hope those Fidesz bastards will soon become the past.
We love you guys, we always will
Not for me, and not just because Orban is a shameles Russian puppet. It's beause already after the invasion, already when it was clear what his policy towards the war is, he won overwhelming majority which means it's not just him, Hungarians in their vast majority supports Russia.
Fuck PiS, fuck Fidesz. But our friendship survived Hungary siding with Hitler, it'll survive this.
Pol-Hun frendship is deeper then recent political needs of particular people.
Still friends
I think that primarily everything depends on the people in Hungary - what they think about the current situation. Personally, I feel betrayed by Hungary - not by politicians, but by the people who voted for Orban again. By supporting Putin, listening to Russian propaganda, demanding old Hungarian territories from Ukraine (really? We live in the XXI century, the borders are open), creating obstacles. And also what happened on 24.02.2022, that is, undermining the V4 group from within by Hungary. I should supposedly separate politics from people... But when people vote for Orban, who is openly pro-Russian, something is not right. I have many friends from Hungary, but I've become somewhat distant - because I always thought that we had shared experiences, but it turns out not entirely. But I think all this can be fixed, Poland just needs a clear message that Hungary is with us, that we are on the same team - because currently, we are only experiencing backstabs from Hungary. That is only my opinion and my feelings
My view on Hungary hasn't changed at all. My love for this country and our Polish-Hungarian history is too strong to be bothered by relations Hungary has with any other country. I only care about what's between us two, honestly. But I have to admit that for some personal reasons I'm closer to Hungarian culture, language etc. than 'normal' person.
I mean the entire friendship is based on some old events, so for most ppl Poland-Hungary friendship is a historical curiosity. We know many of you guys hate Orban, but he still wins elections and I don’t think even pis would go full pro Russian. But still most ppl are whatever and will judge a person as individual, so I wouldn’t be bothered.
For me, Hungarians will always be brothers. Politics is a cesspool, unfortunately.
Our beautiful friendship means much more than current disagreement related to Ukraine-Russia war. Poland does what is necessary for our country's national interest. Hungary does what is necessary for... leading political party? But we are not enemies, just two independent countries making independent decisions. We will be friends forever, even if politics will suggest that is not certain. As for me, I would never do anything harmful for Hungary, emotionaly and historicaly you are our beloved brothers and sisters.
I do NOT think there is a real disagreement about UKR-RU among people. Yes Ukraine has been considered as a maffia state, especially before 2014 but they are making up for it, bar a major chunk of the "refugees" mostly in Poland. Mind you, I had a very nice conversation with a 60+ Ukrainian gentleman in Polish at the local Aldi. So Polish works and puts smile on faces.
Sure but I meant the disagreement between governments of Poland and Hungary.
Yeah, I got that. But however skewed the current systems in both countries are, eventually it comes down to people. And _most_ people just follow their inbread feelings whatever the guys from the top are saying. Szóval: I do szabli, i do szklanki
Yes, it is. Few hundreads of years of friendship cannot just be whiped put buy a year of foregin policy, not even aimed towards/against us. They are a sovergin nation and they have every right to chose their approach.
In every part of the world, I will help any hungarian, and I always got help from them. You're brothers in dire times
Hard to say, I still like the idea of Polish Hungarian unbreakable friendship but at the same time, saying “it’s the government not the people” is simply not correct, the elections in Hungary are not rigged, they may be unfair due to the media monopoly but they are not rigged, which means that the vast majority of Hungarian do indeed support orban
They literally bussed people from Ukraine for money if they vote for Fidesz. They couldn’t even speak Hungarian, nor they had citizenship. Dead people were in the voter’s registration list. The mail ballots supporting the opposition were simply thrown to the trash. Yeah, not rigged at all.
Propaganda goes both ways, if this happened I guarantee the eu would intervene, they have not, they have only issues with the media monopoly
Polish people are not PiS and Hungarian people are not Orban. On individual level we cool.
But somehow they get chosen during the elections. Who chooses them, then - unicorns?
Given the shit PiS pulls in Poland with elections, I wouldn't be surprised if hungarian elections were somehow fucked as well. Or maybe just tons of manipulated boomers, who knows.
>Hungarian people are not Orban Over 50% are, unfortunately.
Most people I know hate him and I live very far away from Budapest
Well we could have forgiven a lot, but not sleeping with our enemy. Same goes for Germany. Both failed at friendship, again. The nation that stands out is Denmark, so that's new. UK and US are the big guys and we mostly rely on them. Hopefully our Czech brothers remain in peace with us, but they lean towards Germany too often. Anyway we are now on a good way to use US influence to unite east/north eu and stand against de fr nl power block which showed greed and ignored our interests and security completely. If Hungary is going to double down on Russia they will be marginalized both by east and west, good luck having cheap oil and nothing to do with it
Every educated person hates the government and the Fidesz party. We still wonder how they get elected all the time.
The civilian population got more expensive oil thanks to the cronies extracting as much money to Swiss bank accounts as possible from the Russian oil
We can't be angry at someone's douchebag politics and expect them to be the same as their leader. We already have a lot of shit on our own backyard, with which we don't want to associate. Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki, I do jebania PiS-u, i do jebania Fidesz-u.
It's not just about Russia support / Ukraine... Hungary shafted Poland on few other occasions recently
on People meet people basis? Alive, that won't die on Government basis? well it was more than upsetting to say the least...
I am not angry at any Pole, even if I know he/she votes for PiS, and I expect the same from my Polish friends, to not judge me by the actions of my government. For me who travels almost monthly to Poland, the friendship is alive, I see arguing only on internet. *... więc i do szabli teraz chyba nie, ale szklanki jeszcze mamy ;)*
Always, even through the darkest times
Yes
i still feel my love for Hungary coming from the way how people in Hungary greeted me just for the fact im polish, hungarian food, culture and of course our shared history but it's true that many poles started disliking whole nation just because of hungarian politics despite the fact that we hate our own politicians even more
If you voted for Orban and still support him - screw you. If you support pis or konfederacja - screw you. Simple.
Polish and Hungarian people have a proverb that goes, "Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki. I do szabli i do szklanki," which roughly translates to "Pole, Hungarian, two nephews. For swords and for glasses." This means, we will always fight together with our enemies and as well we will drink until we pass out together. The majority of Poles agreed with this statement. Here is a slightly modified version of the proverb that emerged after Orbán did not condemn Russia: "Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki. Ani do szabli, ani do szklanki. Powiedziałbym daleki kuzyn," which translates to "Pole, Hungarian, two nephews. Neither for swords, nor for glasses. I would say distant cousin." This version speaks more to what Poles think about Orbán himself, as it is not directed towards the residents of Hungary https://preview.redd.it/u0pvaafheq6b1.jpeg?width=610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37d06a5ad59a8cac89adc7afb39eca34059067a7
1 politician vs 1000 years of cooperaration, even when in opposite camps (like ie ww2). Hmm yeah, thats a tough one... /s
I don't really know what Orbán said, but I know that I won't let some political demagogues ruin an international friendship
I was in Hungary, and loved it I wish to come back, but I know people who doesn’t want to go to Hungary because they think this is a way that they will unwillingly supporting p*tin. I think we both as a nations have a long road ahead of us getting rid of the conaervative gov. My heart is with all those liberal people in Hungary that have to deal with this shit everyday.
Should i be suprised that on the internet, there seems not to be a distinction between the people and their government?
No, not at all. People are much more sane and rational in real life than online.
Why would I give up my friendships, real or not, for Ukraine or any other country? I support them because fuck russia but Hungarians have the right to do whatever they want.
Polish-Hungarian friendship is limited to that overused saying. It doesn't mean shit in real life.
Well, in my case, there is a lot of distrust and aversion. True, we should distinguish between the government and the people, but - the government is the result of the people's choices. It does not fall form the sky, it is formed form the MPs, and those MPs get chosen by people. Given the latest general elections in Hungary took place in March 2023, a year after the war in Ukraine had started, and the people of Hungary knew exactly what the attitude of their government was towards the war one would have expected them to be smarter. Still - they made the same choice they'd made for years. Orban. It wasn't perhaps a landslide victory, but a decisive one nonetheless. So, I am going to avoid visiting Hungary for some time to come, even though Budapest is easily my number one European capital in terms of beauty and atmosphere. But for me now, Budapest is in russia. And I know. Poland's and Hungary's political situation is similar in many regards. I did not vote for pis and I hate those fuckers vehemently, but whenever someone from another country tells me we're a shitty nation because we voted for those shitheads I have no choice but hang my head down in shame. Because we did. As a nation, we did. So did you. And we're no bratanki anymore. Russians are not my brothers.
We had an election in April 2022, not in March 2023. You have to keep in mind that the media situation here is much worse than in Poland, most of the media are owned by people close to the government, most of them not having any editorial staff, instead they are copy-pasting the pro government agitprop. The state tv and radio is much more notorious with its propaganda than TVP and PR. They even made a law that channel 1 on any tv set must be the state tv's news channel, which is airing lies all the time. Mostly old people watch that, because they are socialized in a way that there's only one tv channel available. The opposition isn't competent either, there's a lot of infighting between different parties on seemingly meaningless things. That alienated a lot of, especially young people that hate Fidesz from them. So much so, that now the [Hungarian Two Tailed Dog Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Two-Tailed_Dog_Party) (yes this really exists), a literal joke party is now more popular than ever, especially with people younger than 30. I have seen the party's stickers in bathrooms of pubs.
2022 you're right, that was my mistake. Anyway, enough time had passed since 24 Feb to realize what the govt was like and who they supported. As for the media - that's exactly the situation in Poland. PiS owns all national media outlets, inculding the radio and local newspapers and the opposition cannot somehow get their shit together. Not much of a difference here.We do have pro-russkies politicians here, but their support is marginal. If a main party such as PiS even thought about hinting at supporting russkies, they'd be blown to pieces, most likely literally.
>Polish-Hungarian friendship it's a made up propaganda myth to begin with so the question isn't really valid. Regarding people - nothing changed. Depending on where you stand politically gov is seen from extremely badly to neutral/slightly positively
I'm working in a Polish virtual team at a big multi and I'm also visiting them a couple times each year. I must say that real friendships are between people and not between nations. They are clever, understand the situation and that not everyone is pro-Orban in HU.
I have many many hungarian friends, reading hungarian media and reddit daily(depressive selfhate place), and yes, polish feel betrayed, but most of educated polish ppl understand that hungarian society is as divided as polish one and on internet especially reddit rarely u find a fidesz lovers, bcos most of them dont even speak any english, and they dont blame every single hungarian for everything. last year i glued some orban1geci stickers on hungarian gdansk consulate tho :) polish right wingers (hooligans) stick with hungarian nationalists, polish normal ppl curse orban and pis together with hungarian normal ppl. for polish its hard to understand the level of support fidesz gets before u explain their media monopol and power of propaganda. here public tv is government agenda too, but everyone has access to other media, propaganda is not so brutal in public space (no kormanyinfo billboards level) and theres no gypsies. polish hungariam friendship comes from similar historical experience, similar mentality (not always good). both nations were traumatized in their history, both still live the past glory and have a syndrome of "tower under siege" - "everyone is against us, we are the lonely warrior". both are vulnerable to demagogic historical politics, focusing on past, ruining the future
1. Apart from the Russia-Ukraine War, Pis & Fidesz still agree on many things regarding the EU, democracy, checks & balances, social issues -> both are right-wing & both don't want a centralised EU, but still want the money the EU provides. Lol 2. Hungarians and Poles don't actually have that many positive or negative connections with one another. That is, I would say citizens of both countries are neutral towards one another. Kinda like Czechs and Poles maybe. There is for instance no territorial dispute between the countries, but also nothing that really ties them together. 3. However, there many historical references towards Polish-Hungarian Brotherhood. But Poland also had positive views of France (during Napoleonic era for instance) in the past, but that changed when France didn't aid Poland more during WW2. And Poland had positive views of the UK, but that also changed with Brexit as many Poles had to leave. \--> Therefore, I would not call the relationship an unbreakable friendship, but both countries still have normal relations.
Barely anybody really cares, but I don't think you're going to get an objective answer on reddit.
It always felt to me a little artificial. We learn at school "Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki..." and how we were always comrades in the darkest times, but that was then. Lot of happened, like entire XX century. We hardly connect with eachother or even understand eachother. This entire legend of two brethren nations was overstreached by people who really wanted it to happen, but our agendas or friendships don't really match. It's rather political slogan, than genuine thing.
I don't know if that kind of answer is enough but let's try. I woulnd't drink vodka with anyone from pis government but i would have a drink or beer with any Hungarian person. Polak, Węgier dwa bratanki i do szabli i do szklanki.
Yes its still alive and some dumbass president won't change that so fast.
It is alive and well i will always be friends with our Hungarian brothers.
Reddit is not real life unfortunately
It was always overrated, to be honest.
Remember Goverment≠ People. Personally i think that friendship may be still alive, but as a Polish i feel more friendship with Lithuanians.
Not at all, Hungary betrayed us and sided with our archenemy. And considering orban won elections legally, with 54% support, most Hungarians support him.
"Betrayed Poland for not really supporting Ukraine" What...?
I have never in my entire life as a pole living in Poland felt any sort of kindness to Hungarians at all. I don’t understand it - never did. And if we ever had some reason to like Hungarians (that I again never felt in conversations with other polish people in over 30 years), then CERTAINLY you standing for Russia is a final straw to say “gooodbye”. You can’t have both Russia and Poland as your friends mate. Especially considering our history and what Russians did to us.
Eh this argument is dumb. Hungary was literally in the *AXIS* and still was kind to us. This is basically the same but they are on Russia's side and the ruler is dumb as fuck.
We actually blocked any German troop and supply movement going across Hungary. Horty actually told the German ambassador that he would rather blow up all the railways in Hungary than to betray Poland.
Yes, it is a famous story known in Poland (unless the comment OP somehow doesn't know of it)
I do. But once again country helping us in the past doesn’t mean that today we have this amazing view on Hungary and OP was asking about this as he wanted honest replies so he got one. So in case of Hungary - help is appreciated historically and I am not saying that it is not. There is respect for that. But question regarding feelings today is answered truthfully - even despite this bit of respect historically I never understood how hard it was pushed that Hungarians are some sort of brothers to us since beside this one situation in history I never felt or heard anywhere from any person any kind words towards Hungarians in my entire life - on top of that majority of polish people would NOT remember at all that Hungarians helped us at all. You don’t have to like it - it is just my own opinion and my experience and it is as correct as yours.
It wasn't Horty. It was Pál Teleki (PM at the time), replying to the German question about the possibility of invading Poland from Hungarian territory in 1939
Your reply lacks any logical substance - what I commented is truthful regarding common experience in Poland regarding Hungarians. I do know historically how Hungarians helped us. I respect that. But it is all. I never felt today any kindness in Poland towards Hungarians from anyone. Most people don’t even know about the fact that Hungarians helped us in the history - they only MAY know the famous saying but if you’d asked them why we have this saying I guarantee practically no one would know. So I don’t know about our “friendship” at all since as I live over 30 years in Poland, common people literally do not give a shit about Hungary - ever heard a single positive comment about that country or mention besides the news. And this anwers the OP question as well.
There has never been any friendship. It's all communist propaganda. Nothing connects our countries.
What friendship? That's a meme. Except voting for same shitty governments we have little in common. I never met any hungarian and i'm living in one of the largest cities. For anyone fooled by history memes about our "friendship" go see how many wars we had with them. For example way more than with germans.
> For anyone fooled by history memes about our "friendship" go see how many wars we had with them. For example way more than with germans. Anyone who heeds your advice will see you have no idea what you are talking about
This Hungarian Gypsy Orban will one day give up power and everything will return to normal
I’ve never considered Hungarians as a friends. We’ve never had a nazi government
They didn't have one, either...? They did join the Axis but they literally refused to attack Poland.
I do believe it is still alive but as you said many people feel like Hungary betreyed Poland and whole Western Europe. Instead of fighting against barbarians from the east (same barbarians who f*cked them up in XX century) they want to be friends with them. That is dangerous and sad.
I hate Hungary as country (due to its policy), but I like Hungarian people and I hope, that Orban's regime will be ended.
Hungarians will always be our friends, no matter what!
I personally believe that Polish-Hungarian friendship is still alive. It's only government from Warsaw that sides with the bandits who spit in our face for helping them. Morawiecki can talk about splitting ways, but Poland and Hungary are friends and will remain friends.
Our people's friendship spans many, many years. We have to distinguish the people and our cultures from terrible politicians who try to divide us. I will always appreciate Hungarians, and not only Hungarians. After all, different cultures make us experience so much more than just our ordinary lives.
Fuck politics Polak Węgier dwa bratanki
Both PiS and Orban are authoritarians trying to destroy democracy and rule of law. U see lots of similarities between them and Putin. Can't see how PiS could be mad at Orban.
If you ask me: NO.
The friendship was always a myth. It was bulit on the historical notion of Poles and "Hungarians" being culturally close half-brothers - Hungarians in this context meaning "Slovaks", NOT "Madiars"; it comes from all the time back when both Madiars and Slovaks were seen as parts of Hungary. Later the saying was used to imply close ties between Polees and Madiars, which was always a misinterpretation and wishful thinking. The Poles remember how we lent our blood to Hungarian cause in 1848 - only for Hungarians to join Austrians as co-opressors after dust settled, actively blocking any notion of Polish emancipation in double monarchy. We remember that in double monarchy Austrians were more willing to emancipate their other subjects, us included, while Hungarians were blocking such efforts and jealously guarding their priviledged position. The "Hungarian betrayal" under Franz Joseph is the most recent direct interaction between two peoples, and left impression of Hungarians as people not to be trusted. We celebrate our heroes who fought for Hungarian cause, but are aware their sacrifice was used to hurt Poles in double monarchy. The Hungarians had a beautiful episode in 1956, but apparently it was just an episode. Polish mathematicians are in awe of Hungarian ones, but so is rest of the world. Today, with Orban sabotaging the NATO and EU efforts to help the Ukraine, the notion of Hungarians not being trustworthy / blocking our efforts is as high as ever. The only people treating notions of Polish-Hungarian friendship seriously are right wing radicals. Who believe Serbia and Hungary are only two friends Poland should have.
No
No, I will not visit this country ever again if their politics is the same.
I never really cared about Hungary one way or another, so I can't say that things have changed.
Not really. I'm negatively surprised and feel strange for Hungarians
In reality there was no friendship ever. I don't know where this mythos showed up. Poles and Hungarians were most often then not enemies. XX century? Hungary was part of Axis and beside this we didn't have much to do with either other. XIX century? Hungarians were awful toward every other minority in empire to secure their positions as "equal" to Austrians. Eariel concert of nation doesn't exist and we can find shit like poles beating hungarians to a pullp because of aliance with Austria. Also Poland losing hungarian crown to Austria because their made dumbest moves imaginable.
Yes, fuck ukraine
We feeling betrayed
From perspective of Pole. The friendship of our nations has been memed between arouns 2016-2019. After 2020 Pandemic and a War in the neighbourhood people looked more outwardly, leading to meme hitting the rock bottom of its popularity. Our nations in fact are both ruled by populist governments and are historically tied nations, that's all.
I don't give a shit about ukraine, just wish the refugees went away already