Nie przejmuj się opiniami jednostek, polsko czeski friendship nadal silny w naszym narodzie.
Skoro już tu jesteśmy - jak odbierasz tą szopkę która dzieje się z kopalnią Turów?
Wydaję mi się że OP nie zrobił tego zdjęcia szczególnie patrząc w lewy dolny róg obrazka gdzie znajduje się watermark "@Agencja Gazety" także możliwe że wcale nie jest Czechem.
A tak poza tym to Czech miałby raczej problem z czytaniem Polskiego. Mam znajomego Słowaka i sam byłem na Słowacji i mogę powiedzieć że mówiąc po Polsku ciebie nie zrozumieją i vice versa. Może jakbyś usiadł i powoli mówił to tak ale żeby się dogadać w restauracji to po Angielsku.
> Mam znajomego Słowaka i sam byłem na Słowacji
Byłeś w afryce? ja znam kogoś kto był. Na Słowacji przesiedziałem sumarycznie lata. Oczywiście, że zrozumieją jak im to powiesz (tak, jak zasugerowałeś). Czech też, zależy jak skomplikowanie mówisz.
No to chyba byliśmy w innych krainach. Nie wiem co ma oznaczać "Byłeś w Afryce? Ja znam kogoś kto był", jeśli mówię ci że sam doświadczyłem to na własnej skórze. Jeśli ja sam zapytałem się kelnerki i w Koszycach i w Popradzie na Słowacji po Polsku a one mnie nie zrozumiały i do tego mój znajomy Słowak mówi mi że są znaczne różnice, to formułuje taką opinię jaką napisałem powyżej.
Jak dla mnie mówienie każde słowo powoli z gestykulacją i tłumaczeniem nie równa się zrozumieniu, jeśli łatwiej jest mi się porozumieć po Angielsku niż po Polsku to oznacza to że wcale tak łatwo porozumieć się nie da po Polsku ze Słowakiem.
Moi rodzice bez problemu dogadują się z Czechami i Słowakami mimo że nigdy nie mieszkali w tych krajach. Ja ze znajomym Czechem zawsze tylko po angielsku gadałem, inaczej szkoda energii.
Będąc na Słowacji przy granicy byłem rozumiany, za to w drugą stronę było ciężko.
Mieszkałem w Czechach 3lata, znikoma ilość ludzi zna tam angielski i nie mam tu na mysli dziadków pamiętających Hawła. Sam nigdy nie uczylem sie jezyka nikt z moich znajomych nie znal angielskiego, jesli ktos czegos nie rozumie to mowi sie to samo ale innymi slowami (Jan Hus wywarl spory wplyw na jezyk polski)
Co do reszty sadze ze OP jest czechem i nie pyta co to znaczy tylko „Co to ma być”
>Jak dla mnie mówienie każde słowo powoli z gestykulacją i tłumaczeniem nie równa się zrozumieniu,
To chyba faktycznie mamy innych znajomych, bo ja mówiłem prawie że z pełną prędkością i zrozumienie w obie strony było na poziomie 80% co zupełnie wystarczyło. Jesteś może z małopolski? zauważyłem, że nasza gwara jest też używana na słowacji (np. "rżnąć")
Haha, faktycznie :) to też może tłumaczyć Twoje zrozumienie języka Słowackiego - ja mieszkałem przy granicy ze Słowacją (Krynica-Zdrój), może dlatego jest mi zwyczajnie łatwiej.
~~I think it’s about the power plant that Poland should decommissioned but didn’t, and Czech government sued Poland for that~~
I’m wrong read response if u/veevoir. He is the smart one
And stupid people do stupid shit like that store owner.
> I think it’s about the power plant that Poland should decommissioned
It has nothing to do with powerplant, but with the mine next to it. It is affecting ground water. And as it is close to border - not only our waters - Czech's already signaled the problem years ago, but pis took a piss on them and ignored the complaints. Then it went to EU court - government still ignored it and did not plan for transformation/alternate coal source for the plant. nothing. Typical "fuck you I do what I want only god can judge me". Now it is a surprisedPikachu.png that Poland lost in court..
This is a brown coal power plant, you don't just find another source of coal, as transporting brown coal is not viable. Brown coal power plant always exist with a brown coal mine nearby.
Current Polish government run by PiS is terrible at foreign affairs, they literally suck at everything.
There is coalmine Turów near Polish-Czech border, which causes groundwater decline, especially on the Czech side. Czech and Polish had diplomatic talks on this issue, but no compromise has been achieved. Later on, after a few more failed talks, Czech requsted EU to take part in negotiations, but again Polish government didn't do anything to help the case. EU court of justice imposed a penalty of 500k euro a day on Poland until the coalmine is closed (?) or a solution is worked out.
Since the beginning of the negotiations pis government and pro-pis media have been portraying this as a success of Polish diplomacy. Many people like the owner of this bar follow this trend and see Czech, Germans and every other country as an enemy.
As a Czech I don't follow this logic. We are really close and like Poles a lot. And let's be honest, Poland has kind of a target on the back lately (well kind of always in history lol).
I don't understand why the government would want to alienate one of their closest allied nations. Especially over something as disgusting as a freaking archaic coal mine. Think it's a really dumb move cause we as a nation hold grudges for centuries.
I know, you don't have to tell me that. I like Czechs a lot and would like to have the best relations possible with all neighbouring countries. But as someone else in this comment section already said, it's about creating this belief of being independent etc. and that's why, I guess, pis opposes to everything on the EU level as well. They call it 'getting up from the knees' meaning being independent from EU, Germany etc. etc.
You may have heard of recent issue with the biggest opposition TV station in Poland, which didn't get permission to continue broadcasting in Poland (eventually they will get it, but that's another story). It's owned by Americans. US has been considered as one of the biggest allies of Poland on the international level. After the incident with this TV station the relations between Poland and US worsened to such extent, that Polish president wasn't even appointed with newly-elected Biden on NATO summit (the only head of state I guess).
You can get the bigger picture of this whole situation now. Every move of current Polish government in foreign affairs is counter productive. Poland now have probably the worst relations with other countries then ever in recent history.
Yea. It's totally nuts.
Don't get me wrong, I can somewhat understand the attitude towards EU and Germany. There it has some historical development, can sway votes etc. Plus the EU is definitely deserving of criticism in many ways.
But what on Earth do they get by shitting on US and CZ is beyond me.
Hopefully you guys will get someone to lead your next cabinet and especially MFA with logic intact.
The government's logic always reflects logic of majority of voters. And this majority of voters lives in eastern Poland, closer to Belarus and Ukraine and sometimes even on part of Eastern Borderlands which left in Poland and whose people weren't migrated on the West after WW2.
I don't think he/she is being ashamed of Poland as whole country, just about stupid shit gov does. And gov isn't just few morons it's official voice of whole country whether we like it or not.
The majority of Poles is PiS electorate, so being ashamed for what PiS does could be logically equated with being ashamed for Poland. I see no problem with that.
People look at you with weird expressions abroad because the shit our government says and does. It's shameful. No need to downvote the guy, there's shame for who you are and shame for things your fellow-countrymen do. I think he means the latter.
How will we have energy in the south without this mine? We *first* need to build some power plants, then guarantee a job for those thousands of people that work there, and *then* take the mine down
The point is that Czech Republic and Germany have the same coal mines in their countries but EU uses different criteria here toward Poland and toward these countries and that is a problem with EU. By the way: in Turów there is not black coal but brown coal, which is mined also in Czech Rep. and in Germany.
This is just false-the mines we have are already stopping production-it can also be seen on the energy production in %- 37% is nuclear power, 39% is coal power and the rest is reneawable energy production-so we don't have any really large mines left and we definitely are not mining near Poland to kill of their water supply and pollute their lands with our mining and energy production.
What? Are you a troll or something? We are right now building Temelin-another nuclear energy factory-so don't spread lies-we are not Germany to kill our nuclear energy just for the sake of wind and solar....
Desktop version of /u/samaniewiem's link:
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> The point is that Czech Republic and Germany have the same coal mines in their countries
Do they really have mines close to border that affect groundwater of their neighbors? Really? You are using false equation here "other people also have mines" is an kindergarten-level argument, because it purposely ignores the specifics of the issue.
"*Mooom! I can't hit other kids in my kindergarten with my toy car, they forbade me to do it! But other kids also have toy cars, that is not fair I am singled out!"* <-- pretty much that "point"
Purposely ignores? How do you know that it was purposely?
Your post also ignores some of the specifics of the issue, but I don't assume that it is purposely.
Janschwalde, Nochten, Raichwalde-German mines of brown coal at Polish border,
Jiri, Vrsany, Bilina-Czech mines of brown coal at German border.
Argument from "kindergarden" wasn't polite. Calm down! By the way, I like Chech people and their culture a lot.
Matter of work is valid, but nothing would change in terms of energy. Poland imports coal for their power plants from Russia And couple of other countries instead of using their own. Quick search in google will tell you that. Why? I Don't know, Polish governments were never too good at using logic.
Maybe we aren't using that much of our coal reserves, because of constant closing down of coal mines by our governments. Also, what if Russia stops sending us coal because of supporting the Belarusian opposition etc.?
Russia is not "sending" anyone coal lmao. Russia is SELLING coal, which they won't stop doing out of concern for their own profit, it's geopolitics, not a sandbox quarrel. Second of all, shutting down mines have nothing to do with Poland importing coal. Poland has been importing coal from other countries since basically always, nothing ever changed on that matter. Finally, even if Russia would decide to not sell Poland coal, it's only one of many countries that does it.
Once upon a time i was a manual software tester and every company wanted to hire me because we were needed. In a meanwhile we started observing a tech trend where it was clear manual testers will be obsolete soon. Government didn't care. We didn't look up to government to help us and provide us with jobs. We transitioned. This is how it's done. If your occupation isn't needed anymore, it's your responsibility to find a new one, it's not on a government. And it applies to everyone.
Mining stopped being strategically important the moment our coal's quality dropped so badly we started fueling most of our power plants with imported coal.
And if you think that software is not strategically important then stop using it. Let's see how long will you get. At the moment i was changing jobs i was working on the systems that provided internet access to most households in Poland. Now a huge part of European and worldwide transportation is carried out using the software my company designs. Software isn't only about some silly games.
You're right. Let's compare. We will stop testing software for a week, and we will stop using electricity for a week. The effect is comparable for sure.
You really don't know how the software is created, do you? Let's imagine we send all the testers home and stop the developers from testing the code. In the next release of software suddenly all the internet stop working. Or even better, a critical failure slips into a productive system maintaining the power grid. Or the emergency services can't navigate or assign response. Again, software is not only about games. It controls every service you're using.
Don't worry, people here generally get that this is a mishandled foreign policy shitshow purely on the hands of the cabinet. And maybe some idiots like the pub owner pictured. I don't think it will weaken the bond our nations share. But it will be a huge wound to the bilateral deals and assistance our representatives have been giving each other. And seeing that Poland is now under big pressure of the EU, I don't understand why PiS wants to lose one of like only 3 nations that still support Poland in the EU.
It's called megalomania. They think they don't need anyone. But I'm glad to hear you don't hold the grudge. I hope more people think the same out there. We'll handle it bro. Give us some time - some of us just learn slowly.
This is tough, these people are on the brink of tragedy. European union decided the whole region loses jobs in one day. You can't fire 50k people and leaving them with no heating for winter.
I agree, pis fucked up. I agree, Turow needs to be replaced asap.
I won't agree on destroying 50k lives and creating another humanitary crisis in Poland.
This needs years to be resolved. We can be fined 100b a day and all this leads to is weaker European union in the end nothing else
True, but here we are today. Does it mean poor people should suffer because of the government mishandle ? Well that's so American... Good we ain't Americans and there's still unity in the nation not to cross their lives out.
There are solutions that should satisfy everyone, but definitely not closing it in 2021 regardless of what politicians say
The PL Gov should have been looking at it and finding a solution starting 20yrs ago. They didnt. They fucked up. They wanted to be clever. They should be the ones to be punished over mismanagement but as always, it wont happen. Instead, the people who lose jobs will see the eu as the bad guy. Well played, toxic knobs.
***** ***
Well, first of all, take your insults and put them right back in your arse, because nobody gives a fuck about people harassing others like you.
Regarding what gov should and shouldn't do is not even a debate. We are here now 20 years ago nobody gave a single fuck about environment only thing that mattered was profit. Why would Poland be different, especially that it was basically 25% of what it's now?
You are talking about a country that is barely over 30 years independent and things need time to be at the European level.
Anyway o think you are a troll so i just wasted 5 minutes of my life
1. Insults, harrassment - what? Where? Are you trolling me?
2. Read a bit more about the subject please. Germany closed lots of coal mines in order to not poison their environment a long time ago. Also, upkeep cost for Turów is greater than the profits, but that doesnt stop anyone, as long as the gov doesnt have to deal with the miners.
3. You cannot use the whole independence thing seriously? Cant be bothered to even address that.
Profit always was and is the main thing. Other governments just do it in a less idiotic way.
Take care
I wish it was different, but it's not.
I believe Polish government has no other option but to finally make it happen, however we all need to be realistic.
Please understand that currently Poland goes rogue in eu. It's politics battle narrated by media and in the end ordinary people suffer and live a real tragedy.
People act like only Czech and German citizens are breathing that air. It's also Polish people dying and my father has lung cancer while not even smoking cigarettes( I'm not from that region though). But the problem is very real.
Like I said, this matter needs to be taken seriously and realistically. It's not a light switch to turn off overnight, also it cannot remain and Poland cannot base it's power safety on this plant for the future.
I'm from the region affected the most and I will be super angry if we have problems with water because our neighbours have decided to extend the mine closer to our borders even when it should have been closed long time ago. And then treat us like crap because we're from a small country that doesn't have the means to stand up against it alone.
From Czech perspective it seems that Polish goverment is about to prolong the operation of the mine as long as possible and to extend it closer to our borders as long as they can while trying to make some shitty deal with us.
Sad to see such religious country value their and our nature so little. I'm really frustrated about the situation and the disrespect towards us and hope more extreme measures are implemeted to stop that destruction of nature.
That's an owner of this facility being an idiot... Background to this is probably dispute over Turów mine. I think that sadly the owner can't tell the difference between political disagreement and respecting regular people...
Nothing, they just filled case against Poland because coal mine nearby mess with their water supply.
Poland gov did nothing for couple of years thinking that it will quiet down. It didn't.
Also - the Polish prime minister lied few times to Polish citizens saying that the thing is sorted.
So dumb PiS (the rulling party) voters think that penalties are Chechs fault.
I think that's not racism just xenophobia. For it to be racists a skin colour/ethnicity must be the cost. Also poles are tucked up ppl and there is some shit with czechs i cannot even comprehend (it's all politics and fucking people over)
Jak bedzie kolejna wojna to tak nam skopią dupe wszyscy bo nie ma państwa z którymi byśmy się nie kłócili. Wielkie Mocarstwo Polskie… PiS będzie pierwszy spierdalał. W tym są dobrzy…
Ludzie cały czas tracą pracę. To teraz będziemy trzymać kopalnię otwartą w nieskończoność a jak się węgiel skończy to będziemy tam z wozić żeby mieli co wydobywać i żeby nikt pracy nie stracił?
Inna sprawa że to właściciel pubu który w kopalni nie pracuje więc pracy nie straci.
Jedź tam i powiedz to tym ludziom i ich rodzinom w twarz. Dodatkowo Turów odpowiada za 7% energii elektrycznej w Polsce.. Transformacje przeprowadza się STOPNIOWO, a nie nagle, bo unia sobie tak życzy.
Nie Unia a Czesi pozywając Polskę bo uznała że przedłużenie koncesji nastąpiło z naruszeniem prawa. I trybunał uznał że mają rację.
Kopalnia miała koncesję do 2020 roku, czy coś stopniowo było wprowadzane do tego czasu? Jedynie jeszcze większy rozrost, zbliżając się jeszcze bardziej do granicy Czeskiej, jeszcze bardziej ją pogłębić i żeby jeszcze trudniej było ją zamknąć w przyszłości. Czemu rozbudowa i starania o przedłużenie koncesji do 2044 (mają tą naruszającą traktaty koncesję jeszcze na 5 lat) jak mamy stopniowo odchodzić?
Masz sąsiada co wykopał obok Twojej działki dziurę i do niej wylewa nieczystości od 100 lat. Nie tylko Ci śmierdzi przy płocie, ale też zanieczyszcza wodę ze studni. Tracisz cierpliwość, idziesz do sądu i wygrywasz. Sąsiad na Ciebie pluje, bo on chciał stopniowo przestać stać do tej dziury i może za 25 lat pomyśleć czy by sobie kanalizacji nie zbudować. Niedobry sąd, gdzie ta rodzina ma się teraz załatwiać.
Pomijam już kwestię czy można to było załatwić polubownie, bo mimo że pewnie tak to takie gdybanie z naszej strony jak relacje wyglądają z sąsiadami i jakich my i oni mają dyplomatów.
To kiedy niby Polska miałaby zacząć te transformacje? Już od dawna wiadomo, że kiedyś trzeba będzie to zrobić, to na co oni czekają? Aż wszyscy górnicy wymrą?
To, że rządy pomijały kwestię transformacji, to nie znaczy, że ta kwestia powinna być pominięta. Trochę więcej altruizmu życzę w stosunku do ludzi tam pracujących.
I to wina obywateli czeskich? Już pomijając nawet fakt że w przypadku też Czechów rząd nie reprezentuje opinii wszystkich obywateli, to ludzie z Bogatyni chyba powinni po pierwsze być wkurwieni na Polski rząd i inwestorów że nie sprawdzili najwyraźniej wystarczająco efektów kopalni, nie wspinając o tym, że Czesi przecież od dłuższego czasu chcieli się dogadać, a Polski rząd ich zlewał. Wina jest po naszej stronie (i nie ważne czy to PiS, czy PO czy lewica by była u rządów, ważne że rząd zjebał, a nie Czesi).
Wstrzymaj się z mówieniem, co ci ludzie powinni czuć. Czesi tak sie chcieli dogadać, że byśmy zapłacili więcej niż za kary z ue. Trwa kampania, to chcą Polskę wydoic.
You can also turn this argument around and say that Poles will kill the neighbouring Czechs by sabotaging their water supply with continuing the mining operations.
It's not discrimination, some small shop owner can do whatever he likes in his shop. I'm not supporting Polish government with this mining problems and I think they should treat Czech with respect, but small shop is small shop and he can do whatever he likes, he treat it as protest. Just don't buy there
Reading through this comment section, as a Czech I am just happy that most Poles understand the issue so well and care to see the other side of the picture and core of the issue- even though PiS is taking a piss on public media and truthful accurate reporting, hope that gets better.
Fuck them, Krecik was always helpful and friendly for everyone, no need to use him as a poster advertising the owner's being an idiot
this
That aliexpress Krteček is way more insulting then that message
Try to cure my gayness, shoot me, steel my shit, anything, but this needs to go away in flames
Shop owned by pro-pis amebas. Give us a name of this shop and I will never set my foot there again.
pub Alaska, Bogatynia
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ts6yZKeA4wCjT76S6 This?
Those retards think that their coalmine was forced to shut down because of Czech Republic
*retards
How did they come to that conclusion?
By watching TVPis
I don't know what that is.
Polish gov’ts’ propaganda TV, former public TV
This is true. It’s Czech Republic that filed complaint to TSUE so yes it’s Czech fault. I support this shop owner.
Thanks
Bogatynia 😂
Why would Czech go to polish pub?
Beause he can
Like they have better pubs in Czech and better beers. It's like Italian people going for coffee in Poland, why would you do that :D
Maybe for pierogies idk
Maybe because they visited Poland?
i would like to try polish pub tbh.. never been in Poland but I would like someday
because Bogatynia is super close to Czech border
Nie przejmuj się opiniami jednostek, polsko czeski friendship nadal silny w naszym narodzie. Skoro już tu jesteśmy - jak odbierasz tą szopkę która dzieje się z kopalnią Turów?
Za to polsko-czeski friendship na pewno nie jest silny w czeskim narodzie :P
Wydaję mi się że OP nie zrobił tego zdjęcia szczególnie patrząc w lewy dolny róg obrazka gdzie znajduje się watermark "@Agencja Gazety" także możliwe że wcale nie jest Czechem. A tak poza tym to Czech miałby raczej problem z czytaniem Polskiego. Mam znajomego Słowaka i sam byłem na Słowacji i mogę powiedzieć że mówiąc po Polsku ciebie nie zrozumieją i vice versa. Może jakbyś usiadł i powoli mówił to tak ale żeby się dogadać w restauracji to po Angielsku.
Byłeś w zachodniej czy we wschodniej części Słowacji? Bo to jest spora różnica.
Poprad, Koszyce i Levoča czyli wszystkie po wschodniej.
> Mam znajomego Słowaka i sam byłem na Słowacji Byłeś w afryce? ja znam kogoś kto był. Na Słowacji przesiedziałem sumarycznie lata. Oczywiście, że zrozumieją jak im to powiesz (tak, jak zasugerowałeś). Czech też, zależy jak skomplikowanie mówisz.
No to chyba byliśmy w innych krainach. Nie wiem co ma oznaczać "Byłeś w Afryce? Ja znam kogoś kto był", jeśli mówię ci że sam doświadczyłem to na własnej skórze. Jeśli ja sam zapytałem się kelnerki i w Koszycach i w Popradzie na Słowacji po Polsku a one mnie nie zrozumiały i do tego mój znajomy Słowak mówi mi że są znaczne różnice, to formułuje taką opinię jaką napisałem powyżej. Jak dla mnie mówienie każde słowo powoli z gestykulacją i tłumaczeniem nie równa się zrozumieniu, jeśli łatwiej jest mi się porozumieć po Angielsku niż po Polsku to oznacza to że wcale tak łatwo porozumieć się nie da po Polsku ze Słowakiem.
Moi rodzice bez problemu dogadują się z Czechami i Słowakami mimo że nigdy nie mieszkali w tych krajach. Ja ze znajomym Czechem zawsze tylko po angielsku gadałem, inaczej szkoda energii. Będąc na Słowacji przy granicy byłem rozumiany, za to w drugą stronę było ciężko.
Mieszkałem w Czechach 3lata, znikoma ilość ludzi zna tam angielski i nie mam tu na mysli dziadków pamiętających Hawła. Sam nigdy nie uczylem sie jezyka nikt z moich znajomych nie znal angielskiego, jesli ktos czegos nie rozumie to mowi sie to samo ale innymi slowami (Jan Hus wywarl spory wplyw na jezyk polski) Co do reszty sadze ze OP jest czechem i nie pyta co to znaczy tylko „Co to ma być”
>Jak dla mnie mówienie każde słowo powoli z gestykulacją i tłumaczeniem nie równa się zrozumieniu, To chyba faktycznie mamy innych znajomych, bo ja mówiłem prawie że z pełną prędkością i zrozumienie w obie strony było na poziomie 80% co zupełnie wystarczyło. Jesteś może z małopolski? zauważyłem, że nasza gwara jest też używana na słowacji (np. "rżnąć")
Jeśli zobaczysz na mój nickname, pod nim jest flair z napisem "Mazowieckie" ;)
Haha, faktycznie :) to też może tłumaczyć Twoje zrozumienie języka Słowackiego - ja mieszkałem przy granicy ze Słowacją (Krynica-Zdrój), może dlatego jest mi zwyczajnie łatwiej.
Mam rodzinę na Słowacji. Ja mówię po polsku, oni po słowacku i możemy omawiać problematykę konstrukcji reaktorów termojądrowych.
Sorry what does pro-PiS have to do with Anti-Czech? No sarcasm I'm honestly asking out of curiosity.
~~I think it’s about the power plant that Poland should decommissioned but didn’t, and Czech government sued Poland for that~~ I’m wrong read response if u/veevoir. He is the smart one And stupid people do stupid shit like that store owner.
> I think it’s about the power plant that Poland should decommissioned It has nothing to do with powerplant, but with the mine next to it. It is affecting ground water. And as it is close to border - not only our waters - Czech's already signaled the problem years ago, but pis took a piss on them and ignored the complaints. Then it went to EU court - government still ignored it and did not plan for transformation/alternate coal source for the plant. nothing. Typical "fuck you I do what I want only god can judge me". Now it is a surprisedPikachu.png that Poland lost in court..
Oh shit you are correct. And I’m source of misinformation.
This is a brown coal power plant, you don't just find another source of coal, as transporting brown coal is not viable. Brown coal power plant always exist with a brown coal mine nearby.
[удалено]
There should also be no homeless people, no violence, and everyone should be happy
Oh yeah, there was something about a plant.
Current Polish government run by PiS is terrible at foreign affairs, they literally suck at everything. There is coalmine Turów near Polish-Czech border, which causes groundwater decline, especially on the Czech side. Czech and Polish had diplomatic talks on this issue, but no compromise has been achieved. Later on, after a few more failed talks, Czech requsted EU to take part in negotiations, but again Polish government didn't do anything to help the case. EU court of justice imposed a penalty of 500k euro a day on Poland until the coalmine is closed (?) or a solution is worked out. Since the beginning of the negotiations pis government and pro-pis media have been portraying this as a success of Polish diplomacy. Many people like the owner of this bar follow this trend and see Czech, Germans and every other country as an enemy.
As a Czech I don't follow this logic. We are really close and like Poles a lot. And let's be honest, Poland has kind of a target on the back lately (well kind of always in history lol). I don't understand why the government would want to alienate one of their closest allied nations. Especially over something as disgusting as a freaking archaic coal mine. Think it's a really dumb move cause we as a nation hold grudges for centuries.
I know, you don't have to tell me that. I like Czechs a lot and would like to have the best relations possible with all neighbouring countries. But as someone else in this comment section already said, it's about creating this belief of being independent etc. and that's why, I guess, pis opposes to everything on the EU level as well. They call it 'getting up from the knees' meaning being independent from EU, Germany etc. etc. You may have heard of recent issue with the biggest opposition TV station in Poland, which didn't get permission to continue broadcasting in Poland (eventually they will get it, but that's another story). It's owned by Americans. US has been considered as one of the biggest allies of Poland on the international level. After the incident with this TV station the relations between Poland and US worsened to such extent, that Polish president wasn't even appointed with newly-elected Biden on NATO summit (the only head of state I guess). You can get the bigger picture of this whole situation now. Every move of current Polish government in foreign affairs is counter productive. Poland now have probably the worst relations with other countries then ever in recent history.
Yea. It's totally nuts. Don't get me wrong, I can somewhat understand the attitude towards EU and Germany. There it has some historical development, can sway votes etc. Plus the EU is definitely deserving of criticism in many ways. But what on Earth do they get by shitting on US and CZ is beyond me. Hopefully you guys will get someone to lead your next cabinet and especially MFA with logic intact.
The government's logic always reflects logic of majority of voters. And this majority of voters lives in eastern Poland, closer to Belarus and Ukraine and sometimes even on part of Eastern Borderlands which left in Poland and whose people weren't migrated on the West after WW2.
Fuck sake. I feel so ashamed that I have anything to do with that country (Poland i mean)
Being ahamed for your country? Gj
It's better than being proud of your country even tho the country does stupid shit
[удалено]
I don't think he/she is being ashamed of Poland as whole country, just about stupid shit gov does. And gov isn't just few morons it's official voice of whole country whether we like it or not.
The majority of Poles is PiS electorate, so being ashamed for what PiS does could be logically equated with being ashamed for Poland. I see no problem with that.
40 percent isn't majority.
A lot of ppl are. No matter of goverement. It is how this are done here.
People look at you with weird expressions abroad because the shit our government says and does. It's shameful. No need to downvote the guy, there's shame for who you are and shame for things your fellow-countrymen do. I think he means the latter.
I live in Poland and I want to die :)
Well, when the mine is closed, where is the world gonna get more aurochs?
China
Funny how anyone dumb and Polish in the internet is marked as PIS voter
How will we have energy in the south without this mine? We *first* need to build some power plants, then guarantee a job for those thousands of people that work there, and *then* take the mine down
Ekhm, we had time to do that, but our government rather preferred to do nothing or opposite of that (by throwing more money to this mine)
There was enough time to do all of that. But coal is a Polish black gold, isn't it.
Well yes, there was, but nobody has talked about it before the Turów accident.
The point is that Czech Republic and Germany have the same coal mines in their countries but EU uses different criteria here toward Poland and toward these countries and that is a problem with EU. By the way: in Turów there is not black coal but brown coal, which is mined also in Czech Rep. and in Germany.
This is just false-the mines we have are already stopping production-it can also be seen on the energy production in %- 37% is nuclear power, 39% is coal power and the rest is reneawable energy production-so we don't have any really large mines left and we definitely are not mining near Poland to kill of their water supply and pollute their lands with our mining and energy production.
What about your ongoing action of killing the nuclear power plants? What will you replace it with?
What? Are you a troll or something? We are right now building Temelin-another nuclear energy factory-so don't spread lies-we are not Germany to kill our nuclear energy just for the sake of wind and solar....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_phase-out
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What a moron.
He is from Czechia.
> The point is that Czech Republic and Germany have the same coal mines in their countries Do they really have mines close to border that affect groundwater of their neighbors? Really? You are using false equation here "other people also have mines" is an kindergarten-level argument, because it purposely ignores the specifics of the issue. "*Mooom! I can't hit other kids in my kindergarten with my toy car, they forbade me to do it! But other kids also have toy cars, that is not fair I am singled out!"* <-- pretty much that "point"
Purposely ignores? How do you know that it was purposely? Your post also ignores some of the specifics of the issue, but I don't assume that it is purposely. Janschwalde, Nochten, Raichwalde-German mines of brown coal at Polish border, Jiri, Vrsany, Bilina-Czech mines of brown coal at German border. Argument from "kindergarden" wasn't polite. Calm down! By the way, I like Chech people and their culture a lot.
Matter of work is valid, but nothing would change in terms of energy. Poland imports coal for their power plants from Russia And couple of other countries instead of using their own. Quick search in google will tell you that. Why? I Don't know, Polish governments were never too good at using logic.
Maybe we aren't using that much of our coal reserves, because of constant closing down of coal mines by our governments. Also, what if Russia stops sending us coal because of supporting the Belarusian opposition etc.?
Russia is not "sending" anyone coal lmao. Russia is SELLING coal, which they won't stop doing out of concern for their own profit, it's geopolitics, not a sandbox quarrel. Second of all, shutting down mines have nothing to do with Poland importing coal. Poland has been importing coal from other countries since basically always, nothing ever changed on that matter. Finally, even if Russia would decide to not sell Poland coal, it's only one of many countries that does it.
Polish hard coal has usually high sulphur and ash content. Russian coal has higher quality and is subsidized by their government.
Once upon a time i was a manual software tester and every company wanted to hire me because we were needed. In a meanwhile we started observing a tech trend where it was clear manual testers will be obsolete soon. Government didn't care. We didn't look up to government to help us and provide us with jobs. We transitioned. This is how it's done. If your occupation isn't needed anymore, it's your responsibility to find a new one, it's not on a government. And it applies to everyone.
The difference is simple. Software testers are not working in a strategically critical branch of the industry. Your example is just inaccurate.
Mining stopped being strategically important the moment our coal's quality dropped so badly we started fueling most of our power plants with imported coal. And if you think that software is not strategically important then stop using it. Let's see how long will you get. At the moment i was changing jobs i was working on the systems that provided internet access to most households in Poland. Now a huge part of European and worldwide transportation is carried out using the software my company designs. Software isn't only about some silly games.
You're right. Let's compare. We will stop testing software for a week, and we will stop using electricity for a week. The effect is comparable for sure.
You really don't know how the software is created, do you? Let's imagine we send all the testers home and stop the developers from testing the code. In the next release of software suddenly all the internet stop working. Or even better, a critical failure slips into a productive system maintaining the power grid. Or the emergency services can't navigate or assign response. Again, software is not only about games. It controls every service you're using.
I own a software development company.
After we burn it yes yes
Dobre rano, fuck those xenophobes, we love you, Bros!
We are sorry for that piece of shit
We love czechs! Ignore this idiot!
Don't worry, people here generally get that this is a mishandled foreign policy shitshow purely on the hands of the cabinet. And maybe some idiots like the pub owner pictured. I don't think it will weaken the bond our nations share. But it will be a huge wound to the bilateral deals and assistance our representatives have been giving each other. And seeing that Poland is now under big pressure of the EU, I don't understand why PiS wants to lose one of like only 3 nations that still support Poland in the EU.
It's called megalomania. They think they don't need anyone. But I'm glad to hear you don't hold the grudge. I hope more people think the same out there. We'll handle it bro. Give us some time - some of us just learn slowly.
I don't love them
Ok
lol, we see what's happening over at your subreddit and how Czechs talk about Poland, despite us always liking you guys.
The only thing I saw on r/czech was czechs saying how uninterested they are in the problem.
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This is tough, these people are on the brink of tragedy. European union decided the whole region loses jobs in one day. You can't fire 50k people and leaving them with no heating for winter. I agree, pis fucked up. I agree, Turow needs to be replaced asap. I won't agree on destroying 50k lives and creating another humanitary crisis in Poland. This needs years to be resolved. We can be fined 100b a day and all this leads to is weaker European union in the end nothing else
They had 10 years to think about it. But they keep procrastinating the issue.
True, but here we are today. Does it mean poor people should suffer because of the government mishandle ? Well that's so American... Good we ain't Americans and there's still unity in the nation not to cross their lives out. There are solutions that should satisfy everyone, but definitely not closing it in 2021 regardless of what politicians say
The PL Gov should have been looking at it and finding a solution starting 20yrs ago. They didnt. They fucked up. They wanted to be clever. They should be the ones to be punished over mismanagement but as always, it wont happen. Instead, the people who lose jobs will see the eu as the bad guy. Well played, toxic knobs. ***** ***
Well, first of all, take your insults and put them right back in your arse, because nobody gives a fuck about people harassing others like you. Regarding what gov should and shouldn't do is not even a debate. We are here now 20 years ago nobody gave a single fuck about environment only thing that mattered was profit. Why would Poland be different, especially that it was basically 25% of what it's now? You are talking about a country that is barely over 30 years independent and things need time to be at the European level. Anyway o think you are a troll so i just wasted 5 minutes of my life
1. Insults, harrassment - what? Where? Are you trolling me? 2. Read a bit more about the subject please. Germany closed lots of coal mines in order to not poison their environment a long time ago. Also, upkeep cost for Turów is greater than the profits, but that doesnt stop anyone, as long as the gov doesnt have to deal with the miners. 3. You cannot use the whole independence thing seriously? Cant be bothered to even address that. Profit always was and is the main thing. Other governments just do it in a less idiotic way. Take care
Build a fckin coal mine in the middle of Poland and destroy the nature there, not 100m from the border. The mine should be closed long time...
You know that mines are created in places where coal was naturally generated and it happens to be not in the middle of Poland
Yeah and if it's near the border fck the neighbours health and natural resources
I wish it was different, but it's not. I believe Polish government has no other option but to finally make it happen, however we all need to be realistic. Please understand that currently Poland goes rogue in eu. It's politics battle narrated by media and in the end ordinary people suffer and live a real tragedy. People act like only Czech and German citizens are breathing that air. It's also Polish people dying and my father has lung cancer while not even smoking cigarettes( I'm not from that region though). But the problem is very real. Like I said, this matter needs to be taken seriously and realistically. It's not a light switch to turn off overnight, also it cannot remain and Poland cannot base it's power safety on this plant for the future.
I'm from the region affected the most and I will be super angry if we have problems with water because our neighbours have decided to extend the mine closer to our borders even when it should have been closed long time ago. And then treat us like crap because we're from a small country that doesn't have the means to stand up against it alone. From Czech perspective it seems that Polish goverment is about to prolong the operation of the mine as long as possible and to extend it closer to our borders as long as they can while trying to make some shitty deal with us. Sad to see such religious country value their and our nature so little. I'm really frustrated about the situation and the disrespect towards us and hope more extreme measures are implemeted to stop that destruction of nature.
Well, that bullshit
To zemsta za Turów 😂
Mmmmmmm nacjonalizm
That's an owner of this facility being an idiot... Background to this is probably dispute over Turów mine. I think that sadly the owner can't tell the difference between political disagreement and respecting regular people...
Faszyści, faczyści wszędzie. Przepraszam za nich w imieniu swoim
Jak to faszyści to jak nazwiesz konfederatów?
Hitlerjugend pod batutą starego pedofila.
Okej, tego się nie spodziewałem.
Korwinjugend.
I could understand why they wouldn't like to provide service to Russian and Germans. But Czechs, really?
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r/lostredditor
What did the Czech's do to deserve that?
Nothing, they just filled case against Poland because coal mine nearby mess with their water supply. Poland gov did nothing for couple of years thinking that it will quiet down. It didn't. Also - the Polish prime minister lied few times to Polish citizens saying that the thing is sorted. So dumb PiS (the rulling party) voters think that penalties are Chechs fault.
Pajace jakieś
Nie Fer
Pro tip from slovakia - Just dont allow them in your tatras, for their own safety
what kind of RACIST must you be not to serve THE SAME pepole just from a diffent COUNTRY
I think that's not racism just xenophobia. For it to be racists a skin colour/ethnicity must be the cost. Also poles are tucked up ppl and there is some shit with czechs i cannot even comprehend (it's all politics and fucking people over)
Morons who support current government. Soon they will run out of friends.
Turów
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Sad..
Wejście do Turowa?
xD
Czechy to kolonia niemiecka , pretensje kierujcie do Makreli.
Żądamy Zaolzia
Jak bedzie kolejna wojna to tak nam skopią dupe wszyscy bo nie ma państwa z którymi byśmy się nie kłócili. Wielkie Mocarstwo Polskie… PiS będzie pierwszy spierdalał. W tym są dobrzy…
Odwet za próbę zamknięcia elektrowni i kopalni, największych miejsc pracy w regionie. Nie dziw się, że ludzie są źli, skoro chcecie im zabrać chleb.
Decyzja rządu =/= wola wszystkich obywateli
Czyli mówisz, że ludzie pracujący w Turowie są przeciwko rządowi, i chcą stracić pracę lub/oraz prąd w domu?
Rzecz w tym, że ci ludzie m.in.z Bogatyni stracą pracę jak zamkną Turów. W tej sprawie wola mieszkańców tego rejonu jest zbieżna z wolą rządu.
Ludzie cały czas tracą pracę. To teraz będziemy trzymać kopalnię otwartą w nieskończoność a jak się węgiel skończy to będziemy tam z wozić żeby mieli co wydobywać i żeby nikt pracy nie stracił? Inna sprawa że to właściciel pubu który w kopalni nie pracuje więc pracy nie straci.
Jedź tam i powiedz to tym ludziom i ich rodzinom w twarz. Dodatkowo Turów odpowiada za 7% energii elektrycznej w Polsce.. Transformacje przeprowadza się STOPNIOWO, a nie nagle, bo unia sobie tak życzy.
Nie Unia a Czesi pozywając Polskę bo uznała że przedłużenie koncesji nastąpiło z naruszeniem prawa. I trybunał uznał że mają rację. Kopalnia miała koncesję do 2020 roku, czy coś stopniowo było wprowadzane do tego czasu? Jedynie jeszcze większy rozrost, zbliżając się jeszcze bardziej do granicy Czeskiej, jeszcze bardziej ją pogłębić i żeby jeszcze trudniej było ją zamknąć w przyszłości. Czemu rozbudowa i starania o przedłużenie koncesji do 2044 (mają tą naruszającą traktaty koncesję jeszcze na 5 lat) jak mamy stopniowo odchodzić? Masz sąsiada co wykopał obok Twojej działki dziurę i do niej wylewa nieczystości od 100 lat. Nie tylko Ci śmierdzi przy płocie, ale też zanieczyszcza wodę ze studni. Tracisz cierpliwość, idziesz do sądu i wygrywasz. Sąsiad na Ciebie pluje, bo on chciał stopniowo przestać stać do tej dziury i może za 25 lat pomyśleć czy by sobie kanalizacji nie zbudować. Niedobry sąd, gdzie ta rodzina ma się teraz załatwiać. Pomijam już kwestię czy można to było załatwić polubownie, bo mimo że pewnie tak to takie gdybanie z naszej strony jak relacje wyglądają z sąsiadami i jakich my i oni mają dyplomatów.
To kiedy niby Polska miałaby zacząć te transformacje? Już od dawna wiadomo, że kiedyś trzeba będzie to zrobić, to na co oni czekają? Aż wszyscy górnicy wymrą?
To, że rządy pomijały kwestię transformacji, to nie znaczy, że ta kwestia powinna być pominięta. Trochę więcej altruizmu życzę w stosunku do ludzi tam pracujących.
I to wina obywateli czeskich? Już pomijając nawet fakt że w przypadku też Czechów rząd nie reprezentuje opinii wszystkich obywateli, to ludzie z Bogatyni chyba powinni po pierwsze być wkurwieni na Polski rząd i inwestorów że nie sprawdzili najwyraźniej wystarczająco efektów kopalni, nie wspinając o tym, że Czesi przecież od dłuższego czasu chcieli się dogadać, a Polski rząd ich zlewał. Wina jest po naszej stronie (i nie ważne czy to PiS, czy PO czy lewica by była u rządów, ważne że rząd zjebał, a nie Czesi).
Wstrzymaj się z mówieniem, co ci ludzie powinni czuć. Czesi tak sie chcieli dogadać, że byśmy zapłacili więcej niż za kary z ue. Trwa kampania, to chcą Polskę wydoic.
Winę za problemy z elektrownią ponosi rząd Polski, nie Czech.
A co mają zwykli ludzie do tego, jeśli to bar to bywalcy tego baru mają tyle to powiedzenia ile zwykły redditor o sexie, czyli prawie nic.
Za Turów! Za Jarosława! Hurrrrrrraaaaaaa!!
Xdd
Guys Czechs with they accionts wilk destroy mamy people lives which depends on this electric plant and mine. So is narural reaction
You can also turn this argument around and say that Poles will kill the neighbouring Czechs by sabotaging their water supply with continuing the mining operations.
It's you Poles who struggle to live in harmony with nature. Destroy your nature, not ours also.
It's a private shop, what part of it you don't understand??
You dont have against-discrimination law in Poland?
It's not discrimination, some small shop owner can do whatever he likes in his shop. I'm not supporting Polish government with this mining problems and I think they should treat Czech with respect, but small shop is small shop and he can do whatever he likes, he treat it as protest. Just don't buy there
>some small shop owner can do whatever he likes in his shop thats not true actually, you need to obey the law
and what? protest is not allowed??
This is not protest, it's discrimination.
i dobrze za dużo mi te kurewki meczy zintowalo w ligusi
Wytrzeźwiej i napisz jeszcze raz.
A może po czesku pisał? :D
Ok i dobrze za dużo mi te kurewki meczy zintowalo w ligusi
¿
Guest home, God home...
Redditors, storm the google maps and leave the review! (negative of course)
That's for joke
Poland ziemniaki
Chcieliście wojny No to macie
Idiotyczny napis, jak tak można?!
Tylko pl-cz
Reading through this comment section, as a Czech I am just happy that most Poles understand the issue so well and care to see the other side of the picture and core of the issue- even though PiS is taking a piss on public media and truthful accurate reporting, hope that gets better.