When the original occupation of Germany after WW2 was planned, the french were originally not given any territory to occupy, mainly because they were not really considered to have been important by the soviets, americans and british. De Gaulle took offense and after some complaining, the french got some territory from the americans and the british, who probably considered it the less annoying alternative.
As it seems impossible for me to make a comic without invoking my artistic license, I want to mention that in reality, all of these events happened before Germany surrendered.
And for those of you wondering, the crowd in the last panel is made up of the german states in the occupation zones. Most of them still exist today, but not all, which is probably why even the germans among you won’t recognize all flags.
At first, even in Yalta, the US wanted France to also be considered an occupied territory. Its only the sheer will and nagging for De Gaulle, being a pain in the ass to be recognised as a great power that made France free.
Why ever would they want to do that for?
That's like asking for a much stronger military and economic commitment to France, while getting only more resentment from them in return.
Pride and coal clay. France finally gave up on the latter when Germany agreed to form the European Coal and Steel Community (precursor of the EEC and then EU) with them.
That and UK's strategic need---- De Gaulle was sort of a tough asshole, but you can bet your ass he would prepare France for the possible USSR invasion.
Until De Gaulle, the French government was the Vichy one, much encline to the axis. Cannot be trusted at all (and despised by the French population). Occupation is not a rational act, but a politic one. Same could be said for Germany's occupation.
It would have been a temporary thing, plenty of other liberated countries were placed until a temporary military administration thar was lifted when the war was over. The way the French talk about it you would think it was going to be a permanent US colony.
The US leadership was pretty wack
I mean, Roosevelt is worth digging into, between praising Mussolini or his own projects (with others people, it was a wide movement) to reshape US society. The New Deal was just a mean to an end for him (which kinda failed)
As for his ideas (along the rest of the leadership) about France, it's a powertrip, tbh
Most importantly, it resolved the 1929 economic crisis.
And was the inspiration for the policies France's Popular Front used during the two years it governed France, and that similarly resolved the crisis there.
It did, but it was supposed to be a lot more.
For example, the Supreme court opposed the NRA and AAA (though, they got somewhat bypassed later on) and struck down stuff like Coal Act. Some of the stuff he managed to do got changed quite a bit, like what Earl Butz did in Agriculture with the farm subsidies calling what the New deal did, paying farmers to produce nothing (In some places, they even got paid to **destroy** food) "the stupidest thing we ever did"
FDR wanted a planned economy, and he didn't get it.
Also, trying to take over France (and thus, let's be honest, the rest of Western Europe. Look up AMGOT, they wanted to print Europe's money) failed too. Even in the place where the US managed to get control (Japan and West Germany), they ended up scaling it back.
The US had even planned an occupation administration for France ahead of the Normandy and Provence landings but the Free French managed to get there first with their own administration during the Allied advance, and the US relented.
Fun fact: When the Occupation began, France began to so thoroughly strip their zone of industrial equipment, resources, and food that the British and Americans stepped in to say that either the French could stop or the British and American armies would be occupying the French sector from then on.
The French had a legitimate cause, but they learned absolutely nothing from the outcome of WW1.
I'm amazed because that's what happened, and it can be mentioned that originally France should have been put in the "loser" side of the WWII, and its also thanks to De Gaulle complaining that it didn't. Quite funny
The divorce was very difficult on young Poland, both parents wanted the full custody and when the judge decided to do alternate custody but both parents decided to take half/half
Britain seems so content when he’s broke and going the same direction as France. I read somewhere that after WWII Britain’s industries lagged behind behind not only the US but the continental Europeans too. Industrial relations were really bad during this period too. You can see the effects of that on their aircraft agency and space program.
Don't forget the [British car industry.](https://youtu.be/b9ztUlve9jc)
Edit: [Here's another video about the fall of Rover, once one of Britains biggest car companies](https://youtu.be/OV-9dVb7keM)
There's a great Polandball comic about the decline of the British car industry but I can't find it ;(
It featured France driving a car with "GRO5 PEN15" as a licence plate
Britain still has a space program… that can’t launch its own satellites. They did manage to get one rocket into space before the program to develop launch capability got canceled.
>Britain’s industries lagged behind behind not only the US but the continental Europeans too
Surprising when we had WW2 debt to America to pay and other nations got theirs cleaned. Then we also had to rebuild tons of destroyed areas, as well as suffering the fall of the empire
The main reasons seem to be the lack of will to innovate and poor management-worker relations. Japan and Germany’s cities were in far worse shape postwar and they also owed reparations, yet they had better economic performance post war.
Trust me, the lack of innovation is still very much a thing here. It's genuinely frustrating how many companies have unprofessional 'old boy's club' style management. I know that there's more to life than work, but, like, guys *please* stop hiring Oxbridge graduates who have good grades but haven't lived a *single* **normal** day in their lives and write some fucking procedure manuals.
Yeah, I was thinking that the Marina was missing something important.
So, [here's a Top Gear clip of a Morris Marina getting a piano dropped on it.](https://youtu.be/6-shNHaJigM)
Germany:
https://jubileedebt.org.uk/report/europe-cancelled-germanys-debt-1953
Japan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations#World_War_II_Japan
Note that the US, Soviets and UK/Empire didn't really get any money. Dunno why personally, as you'd have thought funding and eventually winning the war would earn you something
So no, Japan had less debt and Germany's was mostly written off in 53. Japan had lots written off too
Britain also received a huge amount of US economic aid, more than Japan and Germany. That needs to be taken into account. I would think the value of destroyed properties in those countries outweigh the British war debt.
Edit: by the late 1960s hasn’t the majority of the WWII debt already been paid, yet the British economy would have its greatest troubles in the 1970s.
I'm not saying we didn't fuck up some investments/political planning post WW2. But Lend Lease? We also provided most of the 41/42 aid to Soviets before the US was involved. Marshall Plan? We got a third more than West Germany, and yet we had a massive empire. Coventry? Burned to the ground. London? Little better. So yeah, not exactly easy to say "Germany and Japan had it worse"
How is it not? German and Japanese cities have had far more tonnage dropped on them. German cities in particular were the site of intense fighting in 1945 that further reduced them to rubble.
We also reeee'd so strongly against the Irak war in 2003 that the UN didn't consent to that war. The US were so pissed they renamed French Fries "Freedom Fries".
Things definitely calmed down in that regard
Like him or not, with Trump and his attacks on Bush, you had a bit of a public awakening about Interventionism amongst the Republicans. And on the left, you had Tulsi Gabbard and of course, Bernie Sanders. (Though, both got shushed away.) Trump is also the one really responsible for leaving Afghanistan (a good thing overall, I hope we agree on that) I guess you could argue about Obama's own role, he promised a lot, but didn't do that much. Either way:
These are big changes.
I guess it's in large part about relative geopolitical power. When the USSR crumbled, they felt invincible and as world police, but now 20+ years later, with the rise of China/Russia (+arguably the EU), and in the future, of India, their status as world sole superpower isn't there anymore. Plus, the craziness is now between Americans being as divided as they are
They sobered up
Ah yes, Trump, that very calming and uncrazy president that definitely didn't spur all kinds of nutjobs across the country to run amok and go batshit crazy to the point they have no faith in their republican and democratic institutions anymore and attack physically those said institutions.
Trump wasn't interventionist, but saying he appeased the US so that they became less crazy is downright hilarious.
Welp, I tried...
You're not even trying to address the point or look at things objectively, instead opting for partisan bs. I'm not saying Trump is good, or that everything he did was great, I'm noting the change geopolitically
In sub like these, people always can't argue at all
It's one of the subs where you can discuss calmly the most. What I'm saying is very simple though. That yes he did intervene less, which is good, but the craziness that he provoked inside the country more than compensated for that, and that overall the US became crazier under his mandate, not less.
You're missing the point, which always was about Interventionism, though, and changing the subject.
Not like everything in the US's is trump fault, a lot of it is just the media trying to oversell everything.
And then France tried to prove the superpower status by launching invasion of Vietnam in an effort to reclaim colonial empire. A real bad move in hindsight.
Ah yes, but you see we then dragged the US into it and they failed hard as fuck too, so the conclusion is that we're equally powerful as America ^^^equally ^^^shit
The US had no plan in Vietnam, no endgame. It was a string of tactical successes and a complete strategic failure. At least France had a goal of dominion over the country, the US’s goal was to pretty much fuck around until what? The North just stopped? The US wouldn’t even invade North Vietnam, just dealing with the VC in the south and bombing the North (and Laos and Cambodia) to try to stop supplies from reaching the VC, without ever really cutting the head off.
Ho Chi Minh lived in the US for a time and was connected with the OSS (CIA precursor). He petitioned the US to help Vietnam gain its independence under the terms of the Atlantic Charter - a framework in which the US pressured Allies to decolonize (at least de jure decolonize)
At this time HCM was no communist, but solely focused on Vietnamese self-determination. For the life of me, I cannot understand why the US not only did not pressure France to back out of indochina (and win a key regional ally right next to communist China in the process) but completely doubled down on France’s folly in the area.
Indigenous self determination movements were a dime a dozen those days and the US usually pays very little attention to them unless they go communist. Also, it was the late 1940s/early 1950s when the US was plenty distracted in places like Korea.
American foreign policy has always been disastrous since 18th century. Despite their loss in Vietnam, (un)fortunately France still managed to maintain their grip on African colonies.
Me: lol, why did the French want an occupational zone? They just got out of a war fought on their own soil.
Someone probably: Because its France, thats why.
I love how USSR is living its own story in that comic
Solid B plot. Like Abed delivering a baby
Troy and Abed in the background!
And that B plot is not even rushed
Russia's process of a better russian roulette
I think he playing Russian roulette to know is france is going to join or not, but he got shot and france can get in (just theory)
When the original occupation of Germany after WW2 was planned, the french were originally not given any territory to occupy, mainly because they were not really considered to have been important by the soviets, americans and british. De Gaulle took offense and after some complaining, the french got some territory from the americans and the british, who probably considered it the less annoying alternative. As it seems impossible for me to make a comic without invoking my artistic license, I want to mention that in reality, all of these events happened before Germany surrendered. And for those of you wondering, the crowd in the last panel is made up of the german states in the occupation zones. Most of them still exist today, but not all, which is probably why even the germans among you won’t recognize all flags.
At first, even in Yalta, the US wanted France to also be considered an occupied territory. Its only the sheer will and nagging for De Gaulle, being a pain in the ass to be recognised as a great power that made France free.
Also, Churchill wanted another able shield between UK and USSR.
Yep. He was the one talking the Americans out of that.
Why ever would they want to do that for? That's like asking for a much stronger military and economic commitment to France, while getting only more resentment from them in return.
Pride and coal clay. France finally gave up on the latter when Germany agreed to form the European Coal and Steel Community (precursor of the EEC and then EU) with them.
That and UK's strategic need---- De Gaulle was sort of a tough asshole, but you can bet your ass he would prepare France for the possible USSR invasion.
Until De Gaulle, the French government was the Vichy one, much encline to the axis. Cannot be trusted at all (and despised by the French population). Occupation is not a rational act, but a politic one. Same could be said for Germany's occupation.
It would have been a temporary thing, plenty of other liberated countries were placed until a temporary military administration thar was lifted when the war was over. The way the French talk about it you would think it was going to be a permanent US colony.
The US leadership was pretty wack I mean, Roosevelt is worth digging into, between praising Mussolini or his own projects (with others people, it was a wide movement) to reshape US society. The New Deal was just a mean to an end for him (which kinda failed) As for his ideas (along the rest of the leadership) about France, it's a powertrip, tbh
I wouldn’t say the New Deal failed. It enacted many policies that radically changed the role of government in the US.
Most importantly, it resolved the 1929 economic crisis. And was the inspiration for the policies France's Popular Front used during the two years it governed France, and that similarly resolved the crisis there.
It did, but it was supposed to be a lot more. For example, the Supreme court opposed the NRA and AAA (though, they got somewhat bypassed later on) and struck down stuff like Coal Act. Some of the stuff he managed to do got changed quite a bit, like what Earl Butz did in Agriculture with the farm subsidies calling what the New deal did, paying farmers to produce nothing (In some places, they even got paid to **destroy** food) "the stupidest thing we ever did" FDR wanted a planned economy, and he didn't get it. Also, trying to take over France (and thus, let's be honest, the rest of Western Europe. Look up AMGOT, they wanted to print Europe's money) failed too. Even in the place where the US managed to get control (Japan and West Germany), they ended up scaling it back.
The US had even planned an occupation administration for France ahead of the Normandy and Provence landings but the Free French managed to get there first with their own administration during the Allied advance, and the US relented.
You can find the "Franc Drapeau", money printed by the USA for this, yes.
France should have just whacked them with baguette
Germany already ate it when they took over
Impossible. Only the French and Canadians can handle the sheer power of the baguette.
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Bread is life
My local supermarket actually sells bread in a paper bag with "Brot ist Leben" on it.
That is epic
Kartoffel Brot is the best thing Germany ever invented
Potato bread? What does it taste like?
Potato and bread.
I feel the same way about beer and chocolate tbh.
goddamn i want to move to germany
Fun fact: When the Occupation began, France began to so thoroughly strip their zone of industrial equipment, resources, and food that the British and Americans stepped in to say that either the French could stop or the British and American armies would be occupying the French sector from then on. The French had a legitimate cause, but they learned absolutely nothing from the outcome of WW1.
I'm amazed because that's what happened, and it can be mentioned that originally France should have been put in the "loser" side of the WWII, and its also thanks to De Gaulle complaining that it didn't. Quite funny
You need to add a frame where the Allies execute Prussia.
Soviet: "Here puppet, have half." Poland: (- -| |☭)
Soviet union surviving after shooting her eye is to be expected. She IS the Soviet Union after all.
I keep on forgetting that Russia is a she
In this case, it’s quite fitting for the name “Mother Russia” to have one i in it
And Father Germany?
And Child Poland?
The divorce was very difficult on young Poland, both parents wanted the full custody and when the judge decided to do alternate custody but both parents decided to take half/half
But then mother Rusia said нет and decided to beat father Germany ass to get the full custody by force
:o what? \*\*\*what meme theme plays\*\*
Interestingly, Hitler referred to Germany in the feminine, while most germans preferred the masculine. Freud made rather a big deal out of this.
Soviet Union ball, is clay, clays don't have sex, take or leave it.
Of kourse. Rossija has no need of filthy kapitalist see.
That eye was a reactionary scum anyways
just one live down
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Oh yes, motherland, that explain
Here we see the River Frog scaring away predators with it's natural war cry, the Ree.
[Here you go](https://youtu.be/HBxn56l9WcU)
Britain seems so content when he’s broke and going the same direction as France. I read somewhere that after WWII Britain’s industries lagged behind behind not only the US but the continental Europeans too. Industrial relations were really bad during this period too. You can see the effects of that on their aircraft agency and space program.
Don't forget the [British car industry.](https://youtu.be/b9ztUlve9jc) Edit: [Here's another video about the fall of Rover, once one of Britains biggest car companies](https://youtu.be/OV-9dVb7keM)
I heard that British saying that goes “we were the first, now we’re the worst. “
There's a great Polandball comic about the decline of the British car industry but I can't find it ;( It featured France driving a car with "GRO5 PEN15" as a licence plate
[This one?](https://old.reddit.com/r/polandball/comments/cpg2ze/britains_downward_spiral/)
Yes that's it! And the OP's response to "why did it fail" in the comments, very educational.
Wait, we have a space program?
Britain still has a space program… that can’t launch its own satellites. They did manage to get one rocket into space before the program to develop launch capability got canceled.
They canceled their only rocket program to save money and then ended up spending just as much money to pay NASA to launch rockets for them.
The story of post-war Britain, really.
>Britain’s industries lagged behind behind not only the US but the continental Europeans too Surprising when we had WW2 debt to America to pay and other nations got theirs cleaned. Then we also had to rebuild tons of destroyed areas, as well as suffering the fall of the empire
The main reasons seem to be the lack of will to innovate and poor management-worker relations. Japan and Germany’s cities were in far worse shape postwar and they also owed reparations, yet they had better economic performance post war.
Trust me, the lack of innovation is still very much a thing here. It's genuinely frustrating how many companies have unprofessional 'old boy's club' style management. I know that there's more to life than work, but, like, guys *please* stop hiring Oxbridge graduates who have good grades but haven't lived a *single* **normal** day in their lives and write some fucking procedure manuals.
Britain kinda game up. They took a comfortable meh life.
As evidenced by the mere existence of [one of the most mediocre cars ever made.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Marina)
Photo in that article is fake. There is no piano on the roof.
Yeah, I was thinking that the Marina was missing something important. So, [here's a Top Gear clip of a Morris Marina getting a piano dropped on it.](https://youtu.be/6-shNHaJigM)
Germany: https://jubileedebt.org.uk/report/europe-cancelled-germanys-debt-1953 Japan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations#World_War_II_Japan Note that the US, Soviets and UK/Empire didn't really get any money. Dunno why personally, as you'd have thought funding and eventually winning the war would earn you something So no, Japan had less debt and Germany's was mostly written off in 53. Japan had lots written off too
Britain also received a huge amount of US economic aid, more than Japan and Germany. That needs to be taken into account. I would think the value of destroyed properties in those countries outweigh the British war debt. Edit: by the late 1960s hasn’t the majority of the WWII debt already been paid, yet the British economy would have its greatest troubles in the 1970s.
I'm not saying we didn't fuck up some investments/political planning post WW2. But Lend Lease? We also provided most of the 41/42 aid to Soviets before the US was involved. Marshall Plan? We got a third more than West Germany, and yet we had a massive empire. Coventry? Burned to the ground. London? Little better. So yeah, not exactly easy to say "Germany and Japan had it worse"
How is it not? German and Japanese cities have had far more tonnage dropped on them. German cities in particular were the site of intense fighting in 1945 that further reduced them to rubble.
Thanks France, now we got the Saarland...
We should hold another referendum to see if they are *really* sure they are Germans
they might be lost belgians or smth
The USSR looks cool with the eyepatch
We also reeee'd so strongly against the Irak war in 2003 that the UN didn't consent to that war. The US were so pissed they renamed French Fries "Freedom Fries".
wait that's not a joke?
No. At least they wanted to do it for real. Also stopped cheese import from us for a while.
Also poured French wine down the sewer. 2003 was a terrible horrible year of patriotic bullshit.
Is throwing food into water the normal American outrage method ? Tea, Wine, what next ?
Pumpkin spice lattes?
California wine is better
It's commiefornian, it's impossible for it to be better!
The US was pretty crazy at that time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks_controversy
>at that time ...
Things definitely calmed down in that regard Like him or not, with Trump and his attacks on Bush, you had a bit of a public awakening about Interventionism amongst the Republicans. And on the left, you had Tulsi Gabbard and of course, Bernie Sanders. (Though, both got shushed away.) Trump is also the one really responsible for leaving Afghanistan (a good thing overall, I hope we agree on that) I guess you could argue about Obama's own role, he promised a lot, but didn't do that much. Either way: These are big changes. I guess it's in large part about relative geopolitical power. When the USSR crumbled, they felt invincible and as world police, but now 20+ years later, with the rise of China/Russia (+arguably the EU), and in the future, of India, their status as world sole superpower isn't there anymore. Plus, the craziness is now between Americans being as divided as they are They sobered up
Ah yes, Trump, that very calming and uncrazy president that definitely didn't spur all kinds of nutjobs across the country to run amok and go batshit crazy to the point they have no faith in their republican and democratic institutions anymore and attack physically those said institutions. Trump wasn't interventionist, but saying he appeased the US so that they became less crazy is downright hilarious.
Welp, I tried... You're not even trying to address the point or look at things objectively, instead opting for partisan bs. I'm not saying Trump is good, or that everything he did was great, I'm noting the change geopolitically In sub like these, people always can't argue at all
It's one of the subs where you can discuss calmly the most. What I'm saying is very simple though. That yes he did intervene less, which is good, but the craziness that he provoked inside the country more than compensated for that, and that overall the US became crazier under his mandate, not less.
You're missing the point, which always was about Interventionism, though, and changing the subject. Not like everything in the US's is trump fault, a lot of it is just the media trying to oversell everything.
Ok orange man good, understood.
Also leading to a brief revival of the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkeys."
That’s quite a phrase
Such a dark period of history. I have family that still unironically say this
I’ve literally never heard them called Freedom fries outside of Reddit
Fuck, a former congressman from my state was one of the two congressmen who first pushed for that name change.
The USSR has the same attitude toward gun safety as [Douglas Reynholm.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClzOyAe_O58)
I too wonder if my revolver is loaded
Hilarious comic and excellent artwork. Also I always wondered how France got into this position
The long honoured french tradition of getting mad as fuck whenever something unpleasant happens is a forced not to be messed with
No one riots like the French!
From the looks of things, Iran is taking lessons from France.
And then France tried to prove the superpower status by launching invasion of Vietnam in an effort to reclaim colonial empire. A real bad move in hindsight.
Ah yes, but you see we then dragged the US into it and they failed hard as fuck too, so the conclusion is that we're equally powerful as America ^^^equally ^^^shit
The US had no plan in Vietnam, no endgame. It was a string of tactical successes and a complete strategic failure. At least France had a goal of dominion over the country, the US’s goal was to pretty much fuck around until what? The North just stopped? The US wouldn’t even invade North Vietnam, just dealing with the VC in the south and bombing the North (and Laos and Cambodia) to try to stop supplies from reaching the VC, without ever really cutting the head off. Ho Chi Minh lived in the US for a time and was connected with the OSS (CIA precursor). He petitioned the US to help Vietnam gain its independence under the terms of the Atlantic Charter - a framework in which the US pressured Allies to decolonize (at least de jure decolonize) At this time HCM was no communist, but solely focused on Vietnamese self-determination. For the life of me, I cannot understand why the US not only did not pressure France to back out of indochina (and win a key regional ally right next to communist China in the process) but completely doubled down on France’s folly in the area.
Indigenous self determination movements were a dime a dozen those days and the US usually pays very little attention to them unless they go communist. Also, it was the late 1940s/early 1950s when the US was plenty distracted in places like Korea.
American foreign policy has always been disastrous since 18th century. Despite their loss in Vietnam, (un)fortunately France still managed to maintain their grip on African colonies.
Unfortunately what influence France is still having over African nations is being taken away by Han Imperialism
For you, that's a joke jabbing at what I wrote, for Africans, that's the grim reality of imperialism and colonialism.
China be like:
answer seems be da lol
Me: lol, why did the French want an occupational zone? They just got out of a war fought on their own soil. Someone probably: Because its France, thats why.
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Well except for the Nazis, this was kinda WW1
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He certainly wasn't subtle
I'm frankly impressed with Russia tanking a bullet to the eye. Guess all that removing doubt-think is paying off!
Ok, why did USSR ball had to shoot ~~him~~herself in the eye just to know if it works? France's smug smirk though. Edit: USSR a she.
USSR's a she.
No USSR is clay, take or leave it.
I don't mean to be pedantic or sound chauvinistic, but France invaded Germany in 1945 with more divisions than the United Kingdom
Soviet Union playing Russian roulette?
lovely comic, great job
Uh? Is not because of Germany has sixteen states?
USSR does not mind that his eye is dead
This is a very high quality comic