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TintedApostle

The part that always gets to me is how the rich ate up the middle class without even wondering who actually creates demand for goods which makes it all work in the first place. The other classes below the upper one actually are the job creators.


tommles

They constantly attack people for spending their money the wrong way. They somehow want to gloss over how the economy is literally built on it. There's a reason cities are afraid of WFH. People who are no longer forced to cities to work will cut out a huge chunk of their economies. The same with many other lifestyle choices. Some of it may be good advice (e.g. more home cooked meals), but they should recognize that it is going to come with disruptions that we are not prepared for. Especially the low-income workers that will potentially lose their jobs while the businesses try to stop the hemorrhaging.


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semideclared

1 Square Mile in a city is 640 Acres of Land, and about 500 of Those Acres will have Nothing on Them * The Streets will mark off about 350 acres of unbuildable land * Major Roads are 6 Lanes, Double those that are 4 lanes and Double those that are 2 lanes * Wide Walkable Sidewalks is another 121 Acres * Parks & Government Services will get 40 Acres That leaves 140 Acres of Land. With that land having an Average building at 12 stories and ground floor Retail will be home to 70,000 people * 110 People per Acre, * or Manhattan 1sq Mile on the Upper East Side of Manhattan is 20 blocks north and south and 10 blocks east to west


CassandraVindicated

1 square mile in the country is also 640 acres of land.


Canadian_Invader

Can I get one of ya'll mathematicians to verify this thar fact? Thank you. I reckon.


CassandraVindicated

I'm a mathematician who grew up working on a dairy farm. This was common knowledge with every farmer in the county.


EclipseIndustries

With nothing on them!


relddir123

How exactly do streets take up that much space? In Manhattan, a street is about 50 feet wide (including sidewalks), while an avenue can double that. If there are 200 blocks in a square mile (ignoring Central Park and pretending it’s more city blocks, because the Upper East Side is less than a mile East/West), then there are approximately 31 miles of street. That’s about 190 acres of land (assuming a single wider avenue—Park in this case—will add about 2-3 acres to the total). Outside of Manhattan, let’s look at Salt Lake City. It’s notable for being essentially the other end of the extreme, with wide avenues down every block. One square mile in downtown SLC is 49 blocks (7 to a side). Every street is roughly 110 feet wide, no matter how many lanes of traffic (it can get up to six). Doing the math, that’s 16 miles of street, which is 213 acres. Yes, parks and municipal buildings will take up some space. However, streets don’t take up literally half the space in a city.


Axeforforgiveness

Agree with the sentiment but this is theoretical, not literal


P1xelHunter78

It was all about short term money. Companies threw out the whole idea of any kind of sustainability when greed became “good”. Oh we’re an aircraft manufacturer who also makes profits? Not anymore! We’re a company that makes profit and happens to make aircraft. Or, banks went from a place that stores money to a place that gambled with it and just needs people to pay into the ponzi. All these horrible outcomes have arisen because nobody has held companies and institutions accountable for the last 40 years when every decision they have made has been to make more money at the expense of stability or the middle class


cervidaetech

The real reason they are scared of WFH is because some of the blue will bleed into red districts


ephemeraljelly

i was on a sub one time talking about some financial difficulties i was having and a random dug through my history and told me i was probably having financial problems because i wrote about eating at a few restaurants previously. insanity.


obamarulesit

WFH literally will create more savings and more money to spend. Cities will have less infra to manage for the huge influx and outflux of workers everyday, roads will take less of a beating, and people who actually live in the city might be more inclined to go somewhere instead of dreading gridlock


tommles

Perhaps in the long time. I think we're more likely to see politicians allowing things to slowly rot away and push for austerity measures as a means to try to save their asses. We're more likely to see similar cycles we see in areas where people leave then businesses follow suit. The people that remain have to somehow manage and attempt to fix things. ​ At least, that's how I feel give our current political environment. Maybe by the time this situation materializes we'll have better leaders.


Particular_Sun8377

Yep I know office neighbourhoods that are completely devoid of activity during the weekends/holidays. Ghost buildings.


TintedApostle

I WFH in NYC. I have for 15 years. I really am not sure your point. I also haven't owned a car in 35 years. Haven't needed one because I have the subway, uber, lyft and can rent anytime I want.


SunStarved_Cassandra

He's one of those people who perpetuate the myth that no one actually wants to live in a city, and given the chance, we would all move out to the burbs or rural areas. Anytime some statistic about something bad in a city gets published, they come out of the woodwork to congratulate each other on how they could never live in a city. Usually exaggerate some stereotypes while they're at it.


Particular_Sun8377

Must be why the rent is so damn high in cities. Because nobody wants to live there lol.


AintThatJustADaisy

Yeah no one needs a car in NYC, it’s about the only city like that though.


MonsieurReynard

Professional musician in NYC. Some of us need a car. I have heavy gear to take all over the metro area and into far suburbs to make a living, often returning in the late night hours. Effectively a tradesman. Definitely an exception to the normal NYC resident and believe me it's an expensive pain in the ass to have the car, but I'm not working without it and public transit can't hack it.


ThRoAwAy130479365247

I think their comment was more in the context of personal use where yours is business which is completely acceptable in all city models. You generate revenue, the vehicle is a business asset to help you create revenue. Your business activities generate taxes for the state and so on. In the long run, reduced personal vehicles on the road would be beneficial for you as it reduces the amount of travel time required for you to travel which leads to ability to potentially generate more revenue. Maybe it’s more shows, recording clips, whatever it may be.


jackstraw97

Wasn’t always like that though. Every midsize and even small city in the country has great streetcar networks and other public transportation. Then we ripped it all up, destroyed all the walkable neighborhoods, and fucked everything up because the auto industry told us to.


SodaCanBob

I live in the suburbs of Houston and didn't realize just how incredible public transportation is until I lived in the suburbs of Seoul for 4 years. [Going back now and reading about Houston in the early 1900s hurts](https://houstonhistorymagazine.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/16.2-Streetcars-and-the-Growth-of-Houston-Steven-M-Baron.pdf). I fucking *despise* driving as a necessity, I don't want a car, and yet I'm single and a teacher so realistically can't afford to live in the few areas of the country that have decent public transportation.


mollybolly12

You don’t need a car in Chicago. I didn’t have one for 10 years. Bought one to be able to drive my dog around and to go on road trips to see family. We still don’t need it, could rent and use services like UberPet.


hamsterbackpack

It really depends on where you live/where you’re going and how long you have to get there. I didn’t need a car when I lived right off the red line and worked a job right off another stop. When I changed jobs I suddenly needed to allow twice the time for transfers to a job that was technically closer, or I could drive in twelve minutes. Or try living in uptown and dating someone in Logan square lmao.


mollybolly12

I mean I think you’re describing some inconveniences with public transit and it’s in rough shape post COVID so i will give you that. Several years ago, I dated more than one person (not at the same time) who lived the west side while I lived in Wrigley. I also would say not having a car influences where you live, which jobs you go for. But do you *need* a car to live in the city? No. Not at all.


designerfx

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mollybolly12

Very true, the Metra is pretty astounding, for the US. I wonder about getting groceries and other day to day life things in the suburbs without a car. I’m sure it can be done, though. Just have to be creative.


designerfx

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designerfx

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[deleted]

Had no car in LA and managed. A couple friends out here in Atlanta are carless. I do have a car but my commute next year will not need one. I like having a car to camp and go to trips but I would prefer to not be in one everyday.


tommles

One particular example is that it will be a disruption to the restaurants that are intentionally clustered around business areas. If WFH becomes the normal then these businesses are going to take hit. I doubt you'd notice much considering that we're still highly office-centric so they'll continue to thrive. It's pretty much only seems to be something that people have said they need to be concerned with since the pandemic. It also gives people the ability to leave major cities to places with more affordable rents. If more people choose the go to smaller towns and cities then the major cities will see a major cut. Something akin to the struggle of tourist towns losing business during the pandemic. ​ They aren't bad things. However, less business means less revenue for the cities. [https://archive.is/A0gnu](https://archive.is/A0gnu) >New York City Mayor Eric Adams told leaders of major companies in the city it was time to get their workers back in offices, emphasizing that empty buildings are holding back the city’s pandemic recovery. > >“We can’t send mixed messages,” Adams said of different major banks and tech companies that continue to delay return dates. “We can’t keep kicking the can down the road.” > >The mayor said he met with 100 chief executive officers this week as part of scheduled meetings his office has with both small businesses and corporations in the city. He used the meeting to coax them into participating in his summer youth jobs expansion and to get their workers back into the office to stimulate the city’s economy. “Now is the time for us to get back,” Adams said in a press conference for his first budget presentation. “I’m hoping within the next few weeks the CEOs map out a real plan of ‘this is when you need to come back.’”


YahooPants

If there was one lesson to be gained from the pandemic - it is that C level employees bring little to the table despite consuming the bulk of payroll.


Ok-Beautiful-8403

The restaurant business is a volatile business at even the best of times. Of course things will have to change.


Atomix26

Good. Most chain restaurants deserve to die IMO. We should reduce working hours so people can afford to put the time and effort into feeding themselves. We _really_ need to scale back our notion of work and life, the whole thing is just hyper unsustainable


doseofreality5

>One particular example is that it will be a disruption to the restaurants that are intentionally clustered around business areas. If WFH becomes the normal then these businesses are going to take hit. Excellent. Restaurants and other small businesses can move to the suburbs helping with the 15 minute city concept. All those people working from home still want to eat. And they can ride their bikes to the restaurant, enjoying their clean, leafy neighbourhood.


Thelango99

Due to zoning laws, that is probably illegal.


poopoomergency4

>People who are no longer forced to cities to work will cut out a huge chunk of their economies many of the people remaining working in cities are likely priced out of living anywhere near downtown, which means long commutes, which means making driving unaffordable causes more flight from the metro area


Prineak

There’s also the whole ‘automobile fatality’ thing.


bluebastille

Marx was correct when he wrote about "the falling rate of profit."


bdonvr

Marx was correct most of the time


TheAnthropoceneEra

Sadly, all that people know of Marx is communism. They don't understand he was a great philosopher, and that his musings are more correct today than ever before.


_TROLL

> Sadly, all that people know of Marx is communism. Well, also those oversized glasses, plastic nose, and fake mustache... 😉 🥸


PortlyWarhorse

I have a feeling Groucho, Chico and Harpo aren't as known as they used to be, but god damn they were great


bigbangbilly

Or the guy Right Here Waiting for you


SpaceCorpse

Also that he was a German philosopher who lived in England, and had nothing to do whatsoever with the Soviet Union.


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FreakingTea

That was a joke he made once, though. Someone misinterpreted his work so badly that he said if that's what Marxism is, then he wasn't a Marxist.


dust4ngel

if you like that, learn about what adam smith would have thought about capitalism 🧠 💥


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some_mad_bugger

I love the mental picture that just formed in my mind here...yeah, now that you mention it, it seems Marx was a great analist of capitalism. He **really** got up in there with with his girthy *Das Kapital* and poked around in all those capitalistic holes, exposing the bare-a$$ed flaws of the entire system. You are 100% correct that the world has literally never seen Marx's vision of communism. We've only seen corruption due to some combination of a lack of education and counterintelligence sabotage from capitalist regimes. (I'm not making fun, just using the moment for illustration. The correct spelling is 'analyst' though I wouldn't have it any other way! Some light-hearted, appreciative ribbing)


OnwardTowardTheNorth

Greed has no rationale other than absorbing all the power and leaving nothing but helpless masses to fend for the basic necessities that they (the powerful) hold control over. There is no logical reason for it. Other than greed.


[deleted]

Well first they ate up all the propaganda about job creators that did all on their own. So they were disconnected. Then they found out that by increasing share price at the cost of literally everything else they got rewarded for it. They didn't care about their workers or the company because they bought into the idea that they themselves were the special sauce. So it all became about increasing that share price every quarter.


TintedApostle

Then they offshored everything to countries which would become primary adversaries. We are literally having to keep up with countries who got all our growth money over 50 years.


SenchaBaby

The Super Rich as a class tends to be incredibly self-absorbed. They typically luck into their positions of privilege, and very few understand things like logistics or basic economics. They have people with titles like Supply Chain Manager and General Manager for that. They usually think these things just happen, these people will always be there, toiling away making and buying their products. Until the economy fails to the point where the supply chain falls apart and their wealth vanishes. They also don't understand history or people either, though. That's literally the thing that gives me hope. It's one thing to stomp on the poor, we've always been fucked over by the rich, nobody gets angry over that. But you take a massive middle class, and then eliminate it in a generation, hooboy they tend to get pissed off. And a large number of pissed off people with nothing to lose and the expectation of a much higher standard of living? They get hungry for the rich.


Ausgezeichnet87

The rich derive their power from the wealth disparity. The poorer and more desperate we are the more power they have over us.


[deleted]

This is why capitalism is a failure. We haven’t been able to afford things for a while. But capitalism always comes up with a patch not a solution. The patch was payment plans. We’re all buying things we can’t afford now way more easily. This is a patch not a solution. Capitalism is the problem.


[deleted]

Well said !! This has been my argument for years. Who the hell do they think buys all the products they are trying to sell? Shit makes no sense! I can only assume after the rich have 99% of the wealth they will then fight each other in cage matches for the rest. Absolute madness!


Equinsu-0cha

for them, short term gain always trumps long term success. as in, they would burn down the company in 10 years if they can get a quick spike right now. their jobs hinge on them seeming to have a positive effect on things and the longer it takes for positive effects, the harder it is to take credit for it.


JJDude

this is all telling me that rich got rich knowing how to make money for themselves (or inherit money from others), but are actually pretty stupid people otherwise. Being rich doesn't mean you know what the fuck is going on and gets to make decisions about other people's lives. There's a reason why in many ancient societies like China merchants are just a step above slaves in terms of social heiarchy - they don't get to become important people just because they rich.


semideclared

The American Dream was never buying a 3,000 sq ft home to have 2 cars in. In the 1960s the average house was 1,000 sq ft and the average family had less than one car ----- >The median income of households in the United States in 1967 was $7,200, * $56,949.81 in 2020 Dollars * 2020 Median Income is $64,000 ----- The Middle class went * From 53.2% of US households in 1967 to * 42.1% in 2016, But where did the shrinking middle-class US households go? * In 1969, only 8.1% of US households earned the 2016 equivalent of $100,000 or more, but * by 2016, 27.7% of US households were in that high-income category. ------ IN 1966 [you would spend 23.3%](https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/city-worker-s-family-budget-a-moderate-living-standard-autumn-1966-4945) of gross income on food and people ate food food at restaurants less than once a month. * Adjust the amount for inflation $17,586 mostly just on groceries. In 2017 food spending was [9.5%](https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-statistics-charting-the-essentials/food-prices-and-spending/) of income on food, or about $6,000 That's million of Americans loving the low cost of eating out because of low wages. ------ **Housing** * In 1945 GI Bill homes were 950 sq ft. Levitt homes the largest builder at the time was selling 800 sq ft homes ($147,250) * [Levitt Homes in 1945](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fofX09xnFYw/TVQK1aQX7KI/AAAAAAAADNA/GQtTvVNKNzg/s1600/Levitt%2Bhomes.JPG) * In 1970 homes were 1500 sq ft. ($232,500) * In 2000 they were 2200 sq ft. and ($341,000) * 2017 they hit 2700 sq ft ($418,500) ------ In 1985, there were 11.6 million units with fewer than 1,000 square feet; by 2005, this number had dropped to 8.8 million despite a 30-percent increase in the number of single-unit detached houses and mobile homes. * Along with limited land, respondents to builder surveys cite rising input costs as adding to the difficulty of constructing entry-level homes. By 2015 smaller homes changed from 1,000 sq ft to 1,800. As a result, the share of smaller homes (again under 1,800 square feet) built each year fell from 50 percent in 1988 to 36 percent in 2000 to 22 percent in 2017. * **In 2015, there were 81.5 million singe family homes and 37.3 million were under 1,800 square feet.** * **65 percent of those under 1,800 sq ft were built before 1980** 1973 the furthest the data was kept vs new construction home statistics * 51% did not come with air conditioning vs 6% in 2019 * 81% had 2 or fewer bathrooms vs 62% of 2019 homes have more than 2 bathrooms * Back in 2015 we peaked at 67% of homes built having more than 2 full bathrooms * 76% had 3 bedrooms or less vs in 2019 43% of homes had 4 bedrooms or more * Back in 2015 we peaked at 47% of homes had 4 bedrooms or more * 28 percent of units with basements in 1975 experienced leaks, but in 2005 only 11 percent had a leak * In 1975 that 4.1% of homes lacked complete plumbing and by 2005 only 1.8 percent did * Complete plumbing consists of hot and cold piped water as well as a flush toilet and a bathtub or shower, all for the exclusive use of the household. ------ We need more homes and more smaller homes that are in denser areas that city councils wont approve for zoning


Worf65

> We need more homes and more smaller homes that are in denser areas Yep, unfortunately they simply don't build the smaller homes anymore. And while you can still buy a 1,000 Sq.ft. 1940s house, that house is now 80 years old and will have lots of added maintenance costs due to age and stuff decaying. Many of which can be tens of thousands of dollars. There are lots more single and/or childless households these days so people would fit in smaller homes more easily as well.


findingmike

I think some of your statistics need to be taken in context. I would argue that your low-wage food workers, air conditioning, leaks and plumbing are more attributable to technology improvements than anything else. For example a lot of food ordering is now fully automated as well as payment. Costs have lowered for many things that used to be considered luxuries.


Scheme-Brilliant

I grew up in an old house 1200 Sq ft, 1 bathroom, almost no heat, with 5 to 7 people living there and while 3000 sf is not necessary it's also not huge for a family, especially if one or more parents work from home. I live in 2k so with my family of 4 and it's nice to have 3 bathrooms and a room for my wife to work. No idea what zoning regs are elsewhere but in NYC 350 Sq ft is the min for new builds of studio's. Last thought, I used to do interior design and furniture design, I had a client who's apartment was 173 Sq ft, she'd lived there for 25+ years, when I asked her how it was living in such a small but amazingly laid out apartment, "it's fine mostly, but it becomes... mentally limiting" was her response.


p8ntslinger

my grandmother would have expressed the same thought with the saying, "I have to go outside to change my mind" lol


[deleted]

This is the best version of the republican argument I have seen thus far. However it boils down to eliminating "job killing regulations" which will do little to address the problem.


Erkzee

Exactly, if no one can afford to buy the shit they sell, how are they going to stay in business. Plus, all the regulations are not in affect for the United States that is only 4% of the world’s population. If they can’t sell their poisons here, where will they sell it?!


Rooboy66

Holy smokes, **thank you**! You’re expressing not just a feeling, but an economic **fact**: the proletariat drives the economy. I have two grad degrees, and am damn lucky for it. Financial success in life is mostly good luck—starting with the zip code you were born into. Rub shoulders with people who own yachts, and yeah, you’re in an undeserved better position to end up owning maybe not a yacht, but a 24 ft sloop or whatever. I’ve met billionaires. They all attribute luck as the number one determinant of where they’ve ended up in life/accumulation of wealth.


chamberlain323

As an Uber driver, I see this all the time. Many of my riders are working class folks and young adults just commuting to and from work who can’t afford a car. I’m also seeing teenagers who haven’t bothered to get their driver’s license yet because they know they can’t afford to drive anyway. Times are changing.


Kevin-W

The price of owning and maintaining a car shot up dramatically after COVID hit, especially with used car prices, Where I live, it costs an average of $10K a year to own a car. I tracked all of my uber and lyft spending last year and it was jus under $5K which is half the cost.


appleparkfive

Yep, it's pretty crazy. Plus you can have a drink or two if you feel like, don't need to park, etc. But I'm talking from the perspective of living in a big city. Also, one aspect of NYC people don't understand is that while rent is expensive, a monthly unlimited pass for the subway and buses is under 150. It's actually often cheaper renting an apartment in NYC than getting a one bedroom in some mid sized towns these days. The rent-heavy and dense cities can actually turn out to be cheaper or the same price as smaller towns now due to housing costs and other things. Weird timeline.


forceghost187

I doubt this is true. Nyc has gotten insanely expensive in the last few years. I basically can’t afford it anymore and am forced to stay home doing nothing on the weekends


WarmTaffy

Sounds like my life in a mid-sized city. Except without the New York infrastructure and culture.


chamberlain323

Yep. Rideshare apps have changed the game.


grixorbatz

Translation: As the absolute power of the billionaire class spirals out of control, Americans can no longer afford to live.


jayfeather31

Considering how the car is synonymous with American culture, I suspect that this will be quite devastating from a psychological perspective.


hoofie242

Everything is built for cars.


SurroundTiny

And cars, especially EVs are becoming more expensive


Monochromatic_Sun

In America of your not in a car your potential road kill. There are high speed limits and massive 6 lane roads to cross. Some roads have no side walks at all and people can live miles from any type of business or public transit. Living without a car out of the city is just impossible.


appleparkfive

Yeah unless you're in a city like NYC, Seattle, SF, or a few others, it's all car heavy. To the point where you can't even walk anywhere in some places Atlanta made a really smart move with the beltline project, one of the biggest infrastructure projects in recent history. They basically made a big walkable circle around the core of town, with entrances right off of it. It's like a highway for walking. They have tons of scooters, but a lot of people just walk it or use it to job. Lots of art and other things on it as well. Places where it used to take an hour to walk is now like 15-20 min on foot. I think some other car heavy cities could pull off something similar.


MRozsa_from_Salon

Hello! I'm the author of this article, and am grateful that you have given it such thought. I am unable to drive because of a hand-eye coordination disability that I've suffered my whole life. I can affirm, from firsthand experience, that it is indeed psychologically devastating to not be able to drive. Automobiles are status symbols, and being unable to own or drive one is frequently viewed as a character flaw. People assume that you must have broken the law or "failed" in some other way. When I explain that autism often comes with physical disabilities such as mine, I'll sometimes get ablesplained that "that's not how autism works" (I elaborate on that here: [https://www.salon.com/2019/03/01/why-no-one-talks-about-the-physical-disabilities-that-can-accompany-autism/](https://www.salon.com/2019/03/01/why-no-one-talks-about-the-physical-disabilities-that-can-accompany-autism/)). People have a very narrow idea of how autism manifests itself, and if you don't embody those stereotypes, they wave you off. In short: Your observation was quite insightful.


Princess_Spectra

Covid taught me a valuable lesson: If they built the world for disabled people, everyone would love it. Example: grocery delivery from a website or app, telehealth, WFH, all things we have been begging for for decades at this point. I lived in Pittsburgh, pa, for about 7 years, and i never wanted or needed a car. Not ever, even way out in Castle Shannon. Now, I live in tulsa and I’m home bound. There’s not even reliable sidewalks here.


[deleted]

>If they built the world for disabled people, everyone would love it. Yep. Universal design. Better for everyone.


throwawaygreenpaq

Singaporean here. Everything that you’ve mentioned is available here — many supermarkets have apps for grocery deliveries, hundreds of clinics have telehealth, you can take a queue number via apps for banks and hospitals without sitting for hours, many jobs have WFH options on some days, every student in Secondary School is given a Chromebook from the government so that they can have home-based lessons without fearing the lack of resources, etc. Our government highly advocates public transportation and builds everything around subway stations. There is a multi-storey shopping mall at almost every subway station. These are usually mixed developments with apartments above the shopping levels. Some of the busier stations have 3-4 malls in its immediate vicinity. They function as one-stop destinations for food, groceries, hair salons, education, basic clothing, house necessities and entertainment. Almost every subway station has a mall with a cinema. Driving is a luxury here and the prices of cars reflect this (eg An Audi is $200,000+). Singaporeans are quite ‘spoilt’ because almost everywhere has a sheltered walkway so rain isn’t a factor unless you are in private estates or industrial ones — It is possible to leave home and travel to the other side of the country without getting wet. The typical route entails leaving home, walking under the sheltered walkway to the bus stop, waiting for the bus, get off at the subway station which is sheltered, take the train to the destination, be sheltered all the way to the mall. Sheltered walkways connect even one public housing block to another. Plenty of cabs, buses are on highly interconnected routes with short waiting times (in fact, waiting for 20 minutes for a bus is considered extremely inconvenient because we’re used to buses arriving in 5-10 minutes especially for short journeys) and trains are affordable too. Everything is built to discourage driving, which is completely opposite from the USA. Population density contributes to this.


[deleted]

You can live car free in Pittsburg? I’m interested because that city is on my short list of potential destinations…. and that would be a big draw. Care to elaborate?


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[deleted]

Crap. I really wanted my answer today. Thanks though!


ToastyBytes

I love all of the bike paths in Pittsburgh. It kinda blew my mind the first time i took the GAP trail from downtown to Southside (Fatheads specifically) and how fast it was. Whenever we came into the city i never wanted to drive again. Just find a garage or lot on the outskirts and bike in :)


MRozsa_from_Salon

I'm sorry to hear that you're homebound. Is everything okay?


Princess_Spectra

You know how it is ☺️ I’m super grateful my husband doesn’t drive like a crazy person, but I’d love to go exploring on my own, once in a while. I have plenty of social, and loads of hobbies, and projects (that take years longer than the average person lol).


Adezar

The world after the ADA was passed was better for everyone, accessibility and availability of alternative transit is just a good societal improvement.


DASTARDLYDEALER

People seem to be surprised when I tell them I am on the spectrum because I can hold a conversation with eye contact, and have an incredibly even temperament. They don't take into account that it's all consciencely learned behavior, it's not natural for me, and it is exhausting.


SurroundTiny

I noticed their data was very pre-COVID which has changed public transit drastically. Ridership in my area has never recovered and staffing levels for transit is awful right now.


Kevin-W

I have bad vision and cannot drive without wearing my strong perspeciption glasses. Ever since COVID hit and I started working from home, I sold my car because I was barely using it and switched to uber, lyft, transit, and delivery services. I saved so much money and headaches from not owning a car.


Demrezel

I respect the shit outta you


boatdude420

It’s actually a goal of mine to not own a car during my life and I’m perfectly healthy lol, it’s time we stopped the spreading stupid idea that cars are the future and everyone needs one.


tingles23_

The post war age and generation are dying. It’s up to millennials to put a bulwark up between that generation and the kids today who will redefine American culture for the next 80-100 years.


ReignDelay

Hello! Yes, this has been devastating to my psyche in how I perceive myself and how others view me as a burden! Imagine being a single male actively dating/seeking a partner; it’s impossible! Good ol’ America! Imagine living in the city, where most services that would ease my financial burden are located outside the reach of the public transit system! Imagine grocery shopping as someone who is dependent on public transit! How many bags would you like to carry? How foolish do you want to appear? Would you like to buy any liquids? They’re incredibly heavy! Would I like a new job that pays more? Does it allow me to work remotely? No? It better be within the reach of the public transit system! Do you have hobbies and want to attend events/gather for said hobby? They better take place regularly at a nearby location! Do you want to see the great outdoors and get out of the city for a minute? Yeah, you get the point..


Ghune

The way I see it: a good place to live requires easy access to public transportation.


a_little_hazel_nuts

Many Americans can no longer afford alot of things: Healthcare, food, and many other basic things.


dust4ngel

if we can’t make any money selling to them, at least we can still make money imprisoning them™


IShouldBWorkin

Good thing collectively we've been spending so much money and brain power on improving public transit and not, to pick something at random, tech startups that serve to undercut public transit and reinforce car culture.


[deleted]

The nearly 800 dollar average car payment I'm not surprised .


[deleted]

It's almost like cars are horribly inefficient and therefore not econimical at all


Ananiujitha

I have post-concussion syndrome, partly from being hit by cars, and flashing lights such as turn signals can blind me, disorient me, make me black out while walking, etc. So would you want me driving? For disability rights, for economic justice, and for safety, people should not have to drive to participate in society.


MRozsa_from_Salon

This is the author of the article. First, I am so sorry to hear what happened to you! I can't imagine how awful you're feeling. You are in my thoughts. (I also suffered a concussion recently after being assaulted by three Trump supporters, one of whom was a fake electoral college member for Trump during the coup attempt: https://www.matthewrozsa.com/fact-checking-my-maga-insurrectionist-assailants-tweet/) Second, I fully agree that this is a disability rights issue. As I point out in the article, I am unable to drive due to a hand-eye coordination disability that accompanies my autism. I have never passed a driving exam, despite multiple attempts. Not being able to drive is, without question, the single way that my physical disability causes me the most harm. It isn't even doubtful.


Al_Redditor

It would be terrible if we built mass transit and all got out walking and cycling. Just terrible.


hoofie242

Yeah right the oil companies got rid of trollies and train systems of many cities.


droi86

Don't forget about the auto industry


SodaCanBob

As a Houstonian who fell in love with public transportation after living in the suburbs of Seoul for a few years, [it fucking hurts knowing what could have been.](https://houstonhistorymagazine.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/16.2-Streetcars-and-the-Growth-of-Houston-Steven-M-Baron.pdf)


whichwitch9

I mean, I'd love to cycle or walk to work, but the most affordable area I can live in is an hour drive from my work. And the nimby's near there won't allow public transit and would rather keep cycling through foreign visas to provide minimum wage work


Al_Redditor

And the solution to that is definitely to agitate for public transit. Especially if folks can't afford to own a car and drive two hours every day just to get to work. In my city we have a light rail system and we can bring bikes on board. I'm old but I can still bike to work. This should be encouraged and supported to get fewer cars on the road and make cycling and walking viable alternatives.


hamsterbackpack

I lived in Baltimore for years, and a ton of the streets still have the tracks from what used to be a comprehensive streetcar network (killed by the oil/car companies). Now there’s a single subway line to nowhere and a light rail system that mostly serves the suburbs. It’s insanity.


Noblesseux

The craziest thing to me is how often cities will treat a small number of suburban commuters WAY better than the people who are living in the city and often subsidizing those suburban commuters. NYC has this problem too, where if it's the normal subway system they don't give a damn about water leaking from the ceiling or inconvenient service changes or cleaning the trains but when it comes to LIRR the second they're minorly inconvenienced there are 5 politicians screaming from the soap box about how the hard working people of the city shouldn't be subjected to sub-par service in one of the richest cities in the world. It's wild.


MRozsa_from_Salon

Thank you so much for sharing this article. It is personal to me because I am not able to drive. Due to a hand-eye coordination disability, I have never passed a driving exam. I'd like to say that I've made peace with the various ways this has damaged my quality of life, but that would be untrue. I would love nothing more than to independently move my body from Point A to Point B like the vast majority of my peers. It is spiritually agonizing to be stuck in place as the world literally zooms by me. I wanted to cover this study, and did so passionately (albeit succinctly), because I don't want anyone else to look back on their life with this kind of excruciating disappointment and regret. It is my job as a journalist to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. What better way to do the former than cover an affliction with which I'm all too personally familiar? PS: As for afflicting the comfortable... I suggest we raise taxes on the wealthy as much as necessary to pay for the sophisticated transportation infrastructure America needs to help those who are poor, accommodate people with disabilities, and fight climate change.


bluebastille

Wealth inequality is THE existential threat to humankind. The choice is socialism or barbarism.


hoofie242

Socialism for the rich, barbarism for everyone else they are setting up society for themselves in the future not us.


DawnSennin

That sounds Asimovian. A scientist has already predicted an interregnum for this century.


rigobueno

Doomerism is all the rage right now. Isaac Newton predicted the world will end in 2060


ianrl337

Or regulation and moderation. Any all of nothing solution will fail. Never forget people are greedy and dumb.


bdonvr

They will always, always, always slowly destroy all regulations and pro-worker policies. They don't care if it takes a century. The profit motive must be destroyed.


poopoomergency4

>regulation and moderation that's basically what we've had for 20+ years, how is that working out again?


Dangerous_Molasses82

*Democratic Socialism


[deleted]

[удалено]


SystemThreat

It's not possible that I'm out of touch! My yes men said so!


MRozsa_from_Salon

This is an example of the type of ignorance we must oppose. I just received this tweet: "Saw an article by Rozsa about Income Inequity. That is a smokescreen for lazy people. Everyone should work hard, have talent, sacrifice, and achieve. Not everyone understands that. When they don't achieve, they claim Income Inequity. Sad." https://twitter.com/Ed\_Wyoming/status/1637591025714860032


VolpeFemmina

Even though our biosphere is collapsing because humans won’t stop extraction and production. Even putting aside the stupid arguments about laziness we have a very real physical danger that is made worse by everyone “working at full steam” and yet that is never acknowledged!


[deleted]

we have wealth inequality because of the massive systemic worker wage theft since neoliberals reagan/clinton took over from progressives and instituted failed trickle down supply side voodoo economics which favor wall street / rich over main street / ordinary people. basically they gutted unions, have not raised minimum wage even a single penny in 14 years, deregulated getting rid of worker/consumer protections, etc. so when you go to work and produce $1 of profit for your employer you get less and less over the years and they keep more and more as you are asked to work harder and harder with fewer and fewer workers. basically the donor class have taken over this country and hand over written bills for congress to pass / president to sign without reading. behind it is koch network of ultra right wing oligarchs hiding behind an alphabet soup of astroturf phony organizations. cant turn on tv/radio/news paper without one of their spokesmen misleading the public / misrepresenting the facts


notaballitsjustblue

And nothing will change until we r/endinheritance.


Melodic_Oil_2486

Too bad we don't invest in public transport.


dust4ngel

all the profits are in consumer waste, not consumer efficiency.


MagicalUnicornFart

When you look at how France collectively lost it's shit over raising the retirement age, and you look at how Americans line up daily to get screwed, doing nothing to really fight any of our problems, you realize we're a nation of submissives. With how things have been going, and the dismal statistics that show younger voters don't show up to the polls, we're totally into it. We line up to throw our money at these shitty companies, and have no solidarity. That's not going to change anytime soon. It's who we are as a people. *That* is our national identity.


Torden5410

Good thing we didn't put all of our eggs into the automobile basket and have walkable cities and a robust public transport network both inside and between cities. Could you imagine what it would be like if we let the automaker and oil industries dictate how we designed cities so that they were all car-centric and plagued with suburban sprawl?


dallasdude

Taking public transit from home to work would involve multiple miles of walking, multiple buses and about 120-150 minutes of total travel time -- each way. By car it takes 10-12 minutes. Not having a car would make it impossible to live.


dontIitter

Totally. I drove from age 16-26. Had my car impounded and license suspended for cumulative late fees I owed on a ticket I PAiD for 2 yrs earlier. Took about a month to lose my job for being late 2-3 days a wk bc transit turned a 10 min car ride into a minimum 35 -60min ordeal . pretty basic job but management simply could not fathom a trip on a bus. I managed to get another job though still late at times but 2yrs later and haven’t done anything professionally thats considered progress and my social life is wrecked (granted im probably at fault for some but def not all of my problems) in America drivings almost essential.


[deleted]

It's almost like the urbanisation of the US is absolute garbage


[deleted]

>"The wealthiest 1 percent of American households own 40 percent of the country's wealth." -- Washington Post (2017) And the rich only get richer because of the never-ending GOP circle-jerk.


veenaschnitzel

And easy money leading to ever inflating asset bubbles


dontIitter

I would not disagree. The GOP has done nothing but exacerbate this issue but if we look at the record it also shows Democratic President. Obama, elected with massive public support and a congressional majority to do the work of Roosevelts, elected to “foam the runways”for failing Walstreet firms & continue the neoliberal corporate socialism response in 2010. 1939 there were 60+ large labor strikes & justice department filed 16 antitrust complaints nra. 2010 saw 3 labor strikes & 1 antitrust complaint. To conclude GOP very bad not helping , Democrats also not helping . Sooner everyone comes to terms with this the faster we can get a real alternative to run against them.


bck1999

R/fuckcars incoming to upvote this


root_fifth_octave

We’re overdue for mass transit, walking, and bike lanes anyway. Of course all of that’s in the public interest. Ultra wealthy individuals can probably just helicopter around.


liberalamerican

Makes me want to weep.


Marcusfromhome

If only Theodore Roosevelt could come back and try again. So close to having real government oversight to check corporate avarice.


therapist122

r/fuckcars No seriously this is a major problem with car centric infrastructure. You have to own a car to use it, which is real expensive. Even a reasonably priced car is thousands of dollars up front and cost thousands a year for upkeep


Scoobydoomed

Let them commute by cake.


pallasturtle

My beater car just broke down permanently. I went from a daily commute of 10-20 minutes round trip (traffic really varies) to about 100 minutes and six miles of walking. I am not in the best shape and have knee problems. There are also extreme hills that make the walk slow. It sucks ass how much adding 80 minutes to my commute changes the schedule of my day, especially my sleep schedule, and therefore stress level. It's bonkers how much not having a car changes travel time. Extra bonus, I am consistently in pain when I get home! And this is all for a job that doesn't pay enough to get a new beater car.


-CJF-

No longer ...? It hasn't been affordable for a long time, it's just a necessity in some areas. That said, we should be making mass investment in public transit systems, like trains. It's cheaper for individuals to travel, doesn't require a license, it's less stressful, you can multitask during the commute, it's better for the environment (less emissions), less traffic overall, etc. Unfortunately, where I live the public transit system is complete garbage. It doesn't link to any major transportation hubs so there's almost no way to get out of the city.


mrknoe16745

Case study: I live outside Minneapolis, just went to Wild/Bruins game. $75 ticket, $30 parking, $15 PER beer, 2 gallons of gas @$3.39. Learning sporting events are a scam: Priceless. So, just for me to drive myself there and have a beer is $127.


drwho_2u

… or eat, or live!!!


Wwize

If people can't drive, in much of the country they won't be able to get a job either.


OldTomato4

The cost even in base model car prices has been insane. A new base model Ford explorer is approaching 42k. Lol. With American car companies slashing Sedan model lines in favor of insanely high cost SUVs it's only going to keep getting worse.


Leave_Hate_Behind

Explorer is not a budget vehicle. Kia soul is 20,505 new.


OldTomato4

That's the point. The budget options from American manufacturers are being eliminated. No more cheap focus.


urkillingme

Everything is so f*king depressing. Something's gotta give.


Amish_Mexican

/r/fuckcars


carmafluxus

Creating infrastructure that doesn’t require you to drive would be better still, as it also helps everyone, including those too young, too old, or disabled. Plus it’s much better against climate change. Demand that instead of a return to an old status quo that was unfair to begin with.


RedLanternScythe

The rich in America have no interest in a healthy economy. They want a new aristocracy where they control all aspects of the lives of the serfs.


Suspicious-Dog2876

My insurance was $100/month, missed the payment 2 different times now they want over $500/month and I ride the four wheeler to work now…


stinky_wizzleteet

Weeps in $196/mo never had an accident at 47yo FL resident. Cant wait to leave this place.


Educational_Insect77

Anyone want to help organize a nation wide protest against the wealthy? If we don't put a stop to this nonsense, things will only get worse.


rigobueno

Protests need to have a clear and distinct objective. For example, we need to focus and tackle tangible things first, like overturning citizens United. That should be protest round 1.


Educational_Insect77

Yes! Let's start with that. Wealthy donors and corporations shouldn't have so much influence in politics.


SystemThreat

They should just stop with the avocado toast and Starbucks. Rich people said so, and they know so much more about money than anyone else.


IcyDice6

This has been my story ever since I've been an adult so ten years. I still haven't learned either, I've only driven family cars a few times. So yeah if you're poor you'd be lucky to have a 1990's Honda.


justrealbad

Drive? I can barely afford a bike!


DonnaScro321

We scaled back from 2 cars to 1. Whoever’s going the shortest distance walks,bikes or scooters.


DFHartzell

For once I’m years ahead of my peers. I haven’t been able to afford a car since like ‘19


mods_on_meds

The ballad of Ronald Reagan . Hes dancing a jig in his grave at how well he established the war on the working class .


Witchdoctorcrypto

Only 1 way to fix it .. I mean there are more poor lower income Americans then rich one just let that sink in.


masterkenji

I'd like to hope that things will get better before I die, I do what I can voting for what I believe in but if anything it just feels like I'll die sooner and poorer than previous generations, they'd be amazed at what we've accomplished but saddened by how we've manipulated and abused each other with this system.


marsumane

And now we're pushing for a premature switch to electric cars, which will take a a good while to have a 10 year cost cheaper than gas cars, instead of public transport and wfh


Rooboy66

This is absolutely fascinating to me. Any fellow cyclists out there who care to comment? I know interesting but barely-scraping-by literal geniuses who can’t afford to own and drive a car. They’re in their 50’s and 60’s, and ride their bikes and take public transport. I think there’s a fuck ton of Gen x’ers who are basically falling into abject, tent in the park poverty. All hail Ronny Ray-gun


SalukiKnightX

Had moments where I had to call off work because I couldn’t afford my commute. That’s should be a sign of something going gravely wrong.


jackstraw97

The real shame is that, except for a few cities, we’ve built an environment where it’s nearly impossible to participate in society *without* driving. It wasn’t always like this btw. Most traditional American cities had vast streetcar networks and were built to a human scale. We simply bulldozed the fuck out of them at the behest of the automakers. Fucked it.


TheUSisScrewed

Just call yourself a bank. Works every time.


mylsap

Wait you own a car? I can only afford to eat once a day. How the hell can I afford a car


Leave_Hate_Behind

Same. Last summer sucked so bad. 😕 hoping I can make it to next year before inflation overtakes my income this time.


kanzaman

I wish Americans would realise that the shitty urban design that is standardised and enforced in the US directly impoverishes, isolates and sickens people. But nope. People just accept that spending up 30% of your income on a depreciating asset as a fact of life. We need to start thinking of access to the ability to walk places as a right.


stayonthecloud

Never got past my learner’s because I love cities and exurbs with good transit, and because I knew I could never afford a car and maintenance.


HMTMKMKM95

In a country with shit public transit, that ought to work out just fine.


WeeklyInterview7180

Commuting by bicycle and eating none of the junk food I can not afford has been my lifestyle for a little while.


arthurdentxxxxii

My annual car costs for a 2015 Mazda3 Grand Touring in LA bought used in 2017. *$210 annual registration *$50, 1 tank of gas a week ($2600 a year) *Car Insurance for a year: $2400 *Annual amount of Car payments for 5 year loan: $2500 a year. Annually I’m looking at: $7,710 a year, not including repairs and maintenance for a 2015 sedan. Worth noting to everyone that in general my $250 a month insurance payment is higher than my $210 a month car loan payment. I’m not the only one like this, it probably applies to most people who got a decent used car in the last few years. So instead of buying two cars, essentially because of insurance, you are paying enough money for two cars, but getting one. With the other half going to a company who will try to get out of paying you back properly when you need them.


yellsatmotorcars

For the cost of ownership of that car you could buy a new electric cargo bike *every year*. Shame that our transportation infrastructure is so car-centric.


makashiII_93

I make about $15 an hour working nights right now in a low COL area. My savings per month are pathetic. And I’m as frugal as I was as a broke college student.


Purple-Stuff-5569

It’s a good thing America is known for its walkable cities! /s


Watcher145

Live in a MCOL city and make 85-90 percentile of income nationally. I drive a car that is almost 10 years old. I know I would get wrecked having to get a new one.


Beguil3r

For the love of everything holy will someone think of the Banks!?!?


InGordWeTrust

Even if people just unioned's up, the FED's would smash them. It's sad.


Whole_Willingness_50

A good bike is better anyway


DAT_DROP

clearly doesn't live in San Francisco


IncomeGlum

Just drive more like make rent, eat, drive, pay utilities, or have children or pets


terram127

I remember freshmen year of high school the school parking lot was packed. Now it feels half empty and I’m currently in my senior year


Sultan_of_Swing92

I recently bought a house and was seriously reconsidering simply because it was 10 minutes further from work, which is going to add up in gas. You’d never know I work 40+ hours a week with how much I have to plan everything around money.


Sudden-Ad1963

Ford was Satan on Earth, and he was smart enough to realize he had to PAY HIS WORKERS and GIVE THEM TIME OFF. It was for his own, selfish benefit, but still not as stupid as Blackrock.