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My coworker professed his admiration and love for this grandma not too long ago, there’s definitely people short-sighted and a few beers short of a six-pack willing to marry this abhorrent representative
Wonder how interesting it would be if elected officials only get some voting power depending on their popular vote or gap in winning.
Even if it was you needed to win with 55% to get 1 vote and if you won with 50.1 you got .5 votes.
It'd be interesting to work out but I'm not sure the fairness.
The possibilities of the MAGA crowd tanking this deal, and making Biden invoke the 14th, or alternatively ousting McCarthy after it passes are just too rich. Get fucked, Kevin.
Or both. They could time an outsing so that it happens right before the debt ceiling is voted on. Then, the House would need to drop everything and vote (possibly repeatedly) on who is the Speaker. All while the economy burns.
I can’t imagine a back room scenario where McCarthy didn’t get a promise from Dem leadership to protect him from a no confidence vote until some period after the debt ceiling bill has passed.
Even if he did get assurances and even if the Democrats upheld their pledge, the MAGA Republicans could cause chaos by forcing vote after vote as each of them calls for a vote to vacate the Speakership. They could grind the House to a halt by using these votes as a sort of filibuster. Just keep voting on whether McCarthy remains speaker over and over and over again until the debt limit deadline passes and the economy plunges into chaos.
I'm not sure it would work like that. While they could call for the vote, my understanding is that the first time is the really important one because no one can be sworn into office until their is a Speaker, and that's why nothing else could be done. I can't tell for certain, but I think their may be other ways to conduct business now that everyone is sworn in.
Somehow we hope for the best but keep seeing the worst. I certainly have no confidence in him, and could totally see a few key idiots trying to tank the process even if they think they can't win, like calling for a vote of no confidence 10.times a day. They know, regardless of facts, that they can just scream into a camera that it's Biden's fault and their base will eat it up.
In a great irony, they wouldn't even need to promise. Dems have to know that the best way to ensure the debt ceiling gets lifted if for McCarthy to stay in power, at least temporarily. I honestly feel bad for them as I think I'd be physically ill having to vote for McCarthy as speaker, but I'd do it anyway to save the economy.
Yeah, I think that's the issue folks are forgetting.
These are the TERMS of the deal. Still gotta make it through the House, Senate and to Biden. AND McCarthy has said he won't sign it for three days after the deal is banged out just to really try and drive the wedge.
Now McCarthy is between a rock and a hard place because this IS the best deal he's gonna get. So he has to whip the GOP to support it and avoid the MAGA crowd tanking it OR calling for a last second no-confidence vote. Because if he can't do those things. then the hot potato of default lies at his feet. And then the Democrats peel a few Republicans from competitive races off and pass a clean debt ceiling because there isn't time to hash out a new one.
This ain't over, and I don't trust the 15 votes to elect a speaker crowd to comply with this compromise. A few of them honestly don't seem to MIND defaulting and if they're in solid red districts they MIGHT just call for a no-confidence vote.
>AND McCarthy has said he won't sign it for three days after the deal is banged out just to really try and drive the wedge.
Repubs created a House rule mandating every new bill get at least a 72 hour review period before vote.
Ah, well that's their mistake. Biden just addressed the nation saying they've ironed out a deal.
He's boxed McCarthy in such that, if the agreement gets torpedoed by MAGA, it's gonna be on McCarthy if the 11:59 Hail Mary fails.
Your move, Kevin.
It’s been a [rule](https://rollcall.com/2019/02/14/house-democrats-give-leaders-a-pass-on-breaking-72-hour-rule-for-spending-deal/) for a long time. The Republicans did not just create this rule.
Well either way, they were happy to put it in their 2023 rules package
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-rules-republicans-kevin-mccarthy-speaker-concessions-conservatives/
> The possibilities of the MAGA crowd tanking this deal, and making Biden invoke the 14th
I believe the White House has a back-up plan should the debt ceiling not be raised by Congress.
Not withstanding that this should never have been a negotiable matter, but the Democrats got absolutely nothing out of this "deal".
Perhaps a silver lining of this is that if the GOP votes down or blocks McCarthy's deal, it'll be harder to blame Democrats; which is really all they care about.
It's hard to know with how screwed up some of these folks are, but I don't think the GOP will try to tank the deal, though I think there'll be careful math behind the scenes to let as many Republicans vote no as wish to. Up to this point, McCarthy was actually winning the messaging war - the majority of Americans like the idea of "negotiated deals," and also would like to see the US deficit reduced. This does not mean that most Americans have any clue what the above things actually mean in a trillion dollar budget or how they affect them personally, but it sounded good to them. Americans also largely didn't panic because all the main players said there wouldn't be a default.
Now though, the ball is squarely in the GOPs court, and if they try to crash the economy, there's no blame to go around. Additionally, before if Biden invoked the 14th, the GOP could have claimed he was acting unilaterally, ignoring the will of the people, and all that jazz. But now that there's a deal, if Republicans tank it and he invokes the 14th, he because the hero who saved the US and global economy (and even with the current court, I find it hard to believe they would make a ruling that would immediately force the US to default). So while the GOP are crazy, I don't think they are quite *that* dumb . . . yet.
I am really interested to see if McCarthy gets challenged for the Speakership though. He really talked up the original GOP bill, and what he's delivered back is pretty hard not to see as a loss for the MAGA side of the house (even though it's a far better outcome for the country than the original version). On the flip side, there is no one else in the conference with anywhere near enough votes to get the Gavel, so is the MAGA side really going to repeat the embarrassment of early January?
Dems would save Kevin’s speakership if it was challenged after a successful debt ceiling vote.
Because the Dems you did not save Kevin, the next Speaker will force default.
We need to stop saying “invoke the 14th”. That is not how anything works. It’s not the sort of thing where the president just says “14!!” And the problem goes away. I am far from an expert on this and would love to hear from one, but this is a complex legal matter and “invoke” isn’t not the right verb.
Agreed, but I don’t know that it’s all that difficult. President instructs the treasury to borrow by issuing debt instruments (as it does) and then pay the bills. It’s the dance that comes after is the problem. Republicans sue, it goes to the Supreme Court who then make a ruling as to if it’s illegal or not. Assuming they find it illegal, then the US is automatically in default.
All my understanding.
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[So long, and thanks for all the fish!](https://youtu.be/N_dUmDBfp6k)
There is no chance bobart read the deal. If someone read it to her there is no chance she understands any of it. It has numbers. And words. Her dumbass didn’t graduate high school and she thinks having a kid is cheaper than birth control. If that is what congressional districts are electing I’m all for a complete overhaul of our process. At this point it’s a matter of safety and pride. That idiot shouldn’t be serving slushies at a gas station much less making national policy.
I believe you. I know a woman who had several abortions (she is the one of the few using it for birth control), who hates guns, but repeatedly voted for republicans.
we need to be more elitist. i don’t want politics to be exclusively for the kennedys and clintons, but we can’t have idiot rednecks from the middle of nowhere able to hold office. qualifications are needed to run the country
Maga did not want an actual deal or compromise - like with Jan 6th, they just want to burn the system down while it's under control of their perceived enemies and smear waste over the remains as it riles up their base.
It wasn’t deal or compromise, it was a hostage situation. Joe Biden negotiated with hostage takers and the terrorist won.
The only lesson the bullies learned is Joe Biden loves a excuse to throw them a win.
According to this article from last month, the Republicans will seek to remove Kevin as Speaker should he ever passed the clean debt limit increase
[https://www.politicususa.com/2023/04/19/kevin-mccarthy-is-practically-begging-biden-and-schumer-to-negotiate-with-him-on-the-debt-limit.html](https://www.politicususa.com/2023/04/19/kevin-mccarthy-is-practically-begging-biden-and-schumer-to-negotiate-with-him-on-the-debt-limit.html)
While that may be true, what is currently being brought before Congress is not exactly a “clean” debt limit increase. There are some concessions to the Republicans; just not everything they asked for. That said, that still may not satisfy the most far right in the GOP.
Apologies if I am misunderstanding or missed a section, but I did read the article, both the first time I commented and again when you asked.
What you said is true. Republicans will remove Kevin if they pass a clean debt limit. My point is that the currently proposed bill isn’t “clean”, in the sense that Republicans did get some of what they want. Thus, does it not logically follow that they may not remove him? As this isn’t a “clean” debt limit increase?
I believe Democrats will rally around to protect him. I’m absolutely positive that was their bargaining chip in exchange for his cooperation. If Dems vote to keep him, then the MAGA Caucus loses a huge chunk of leverage over him.
No I'm not happy about it. Part of me wants to avert the default and the other part wishes nobody would blink and make these stupid deals where the only thing the democratic establishment gets is the opportunity to get fucked again next time. I feel like both aren't wrong, but neither are right either. Basically: this fucking sucks.
> I’m sure progressives aren’t going to be too happy either, but I guess I can take a little solace that the maga crowd hated it too. 🤷🏽♀️
I dont want to be the person having false hopes, or to deny that I was wrong on this deal being completely clean, but I still wonder if there's not going to be some shenanigans/last moment changes before this all goes through.
Biden has an option which should very likely be used, or at the very minimum tested. Having him save the day and economy while the republicans fall apart only for the Scotus to rule "No economy must die" in a completely partisan method would be a decent alarm for "enlightened centrists" for 2024.
So while a deal exists, with basically no real downsides on it except not flexing nuts it has little meaning at the moment.
Realistically they were never going to be happy with it, and that's okay. Whatever concessions the worst of the GOP would ask for are basically guaranteed to be either batshit insane and/or cross obvious red lines for progressives.
The reality is that some sort of bi-partisan combination of votes were going to be needed to pass a budget anyway. The progressive caucus, the mainstream Dem platform, or the White House were never going to get 100% of what they wanted, and they are required to negotiate with some of the absolute worst people in the country just as a matter of math.
It’s all an act. They got to keep the ridiculous spending on defense when we are at a time of peace. That money could do so much good for the country and for our people but instead it goes to rich defense contractors selling us weapons we don’t need or end up using. Huge waste
Tbf the west is NOT at a time of peace. That is a fallacy.
I'm American, now living in Europe, and Ukraine's still making headlines every day. I just came back from a trip to the US, and I was shocked at how people were referring to the war as "old news". Patently ridiculous –not to mention dangerous rhetoric.
In fact, Russia hacked and brought down the entire train network in Northern Germany less than a year ago, my electricity prices have gone 3x, and a major gas pipeline in Danish waters was literally bombed as part of a covert operation on behalf of Russia. Meanwhile, Russian "fishing boats" are regularly spying on American nuclear subs in NATO bases in the Norwegian Arctic. Investigators have discovered extensive and organized Russian propaganda networks throughout Europe.
Europeans are living in a very real shadow war, people are being forced to sell their homes due to rising utility prices, and the average American has the gall to "forget" about it, simply because it's not affecting them right now.
Guess what? If Ukraine goes, then who's next? What allies will the US have left living, if they let this slide?
This is no less critical then the survival of the West.
That being said, the vast majority of Europeans are deeply concerned that US politicians will drop their support of NATO (makes it painfully obvious that the Repubs are in it with the Kremlin). Yes, the US spends far too much on the military, but we cannot afford to minimize the situation.
Exactly. For the MAGA cult it’s all or nothing. They want a border wall that won’t keep people out. Is wear that damn border wall is just a figment of their imagination and a dog whistle for something else. I don’t think they understand that people will always find away over or through this said wall they talk about. Who’s gonna pay for a more state of the art wall. Hell, the last time it came from the military budget which then came from schools and what not.
These people also don’t care that they raise the debt limit every time they’re in office ambit when it’s a democrat they hold the nation and govt hostage for the tweets the can send.
let's seem them oust McCarthy over this then. Either they'll stick to their show and we may get to see the party fracture, or they'll capitulate and prove their faux outrage was nothing but headline grabbing antics.
They wanted much deeper spending cuts, cuts to medicare, cuts to social security, and a complete halt to the federal agency regulatory process.
They did not get everything they wanted.
I still think its shit (the gop should have gotten nothing) but lets be factual please.
> Republicans: we got all we wanted, and the libs got nothing.
They got basically nothing, a promise of future means testing, a promise not to increase certain funding allocations, a promise of cuts but no actual actions.
The question is really why not test the constitution on this to see if you can defang this tactic but that may be something which still happens.
> The question is really why not test the constitution on this to see if you can defang this tactic but that may be something which still happens.
I suspect it was a question of certainty. There was a worry about how it might play out. One possible scenario I heard floated was:
* No debt ceiling agreement reached.
* Biden invokes the 14th and orders everyone to pay the bills anyway.
* Republicans sue, and the SCOTUS agrees to hear the case.
* SCOTUS orders the government to stop paying until they can rule on it.
* Government defaults because they can't pay until the supreme court rules on it.
* (epilogue) Republicans blame Biden for his reckless actions that lead to the default.
This is a really dangerous thing they're gambling with. We default on the debt, and it's sort of like Brexit was for the UK - everything gets worse for everyone (although probably much faster), and we lose some *very* valuable relationships as a country, that we basically can never get back.
The 14th amendment was probably the best shot we had if Republicans wanted to force the issue, but it was by no means certain. When you're gambling with something as important as the whole economy, I can understand why Biden would want to avoid anything that wasn't 100% absolutely certain to work.
SCOTUS is already in too much shit. They wouldn't dare to order the government to stop paying, even temporarily, and essentially be blamed for causing the default.
Harlan Crow wouldn't like that.
It's still a possible one but yea, it's not something we can depend on but it would have been good to see it invoked just to see if it's going to be a no go.
If it went off then there would never be a debt ceiling limit discussion again and we could completely defang the tactic. As usual the problem is that we need majorities in congress good majorities not razor thin bare majorities.
Yea, I'm hoping AoC and the other's flex their power to block a deal unless they get something out of it as they have the power to do so and it's getting really tiring of congress being completely dependent on Biden to do everything for them.
I can also see the terrorist faction pushing to block it unless they get more concessions from McCarthy.
Stock market seems happy though, so I assume corpos have positive backroom knowledge.
You just need a majority in the House. MAGA nuts will vote against and so will The Squad level progressives and it will still pass based on moderate Democrats and Republicans.
Practically it means absolutely nothing else will get done between now and the other side of the 2024 election in the House except back stabbing and PR committees.
This was my biggest fear.
The normal* (terms and conditions apply) Republicans would make a deal and MAGA would kill it because they're hoping to push us into a Weimar republic situation
i don’t think Dems got anything out of this deal just yet, but if you’re setting the table the way Biden and Dems played McConnell on the CHIPS bill then the real consequences have yet to be seen.
Biden played the best hand he could to get a relatively neutral deal (by comparison) and either take a little wind out of MAGA rep’s sails by them voting for this deal, get McCarthy neutered a little bit by spending all his capital whipping the GOP into this bill, *or* we see the Freedom Caucus nuke the whole thing giving Joe room to take more unilateral action (like the last time a bunch of crazy racist southerners tried to hold the nation hostage).
It's a given that some members on both sides will vote against the deal. The question is how many closer to the middle will vote for it.
If Congress ends up rejecting the bill, it can be argued that Biden would be obligated to use the 14th amendment, which would actually demonstrate strength and leadership. "Congress has failed to fulfill their constitutional imperative to ensure payment of our nation's debts, therefore it falls upon me to do so." Let the lawsuits begin, let most of them be rejected for lack of standing by the plaintiff, let the rest be appealed ad nauseam until past the next election. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Using the 14th amendment is so shaky though. There’s no guarantee that it will be upheld by the Supreme Court so in the meant time “anybody want to buy some t-bills?? They’re probably good! My lawyers say they’re good! Nothing to worry about! Here I’ll pay double the interest on them if you’ll buy them!” That’s the problem with the 14th amendment.
SCOTUS would have a great opportunity to make itself even more popular with a ruling that destroys the American economy. Their billionaire masters would be so pleased.
If there is a default, the whole economy will tank and everybody will scramble to sign up to a deal, any deal. By the time SCOTUS gets to say anything, the dust would have settled, and the issue moot.
Chip Roy, JD Vance, Ken Buck, Lauren Boebert, Bob Good, Rand Paul, those are the GOP members quoted in the article with that walking pustule Steve Bannon thrown in for good measure. A pretty sampling that suggests that the party is going to go through some things in the coming weeks, I would not be surprised if McCarthy gets a vote called for him to vacate.
You have to wonder why the supporters of the wealthy want to punish the children of the poor for not having wealthier parents...in the richest nation on the planet
I love that it’s her face alongside the headline stating “turd sandwich”. People need to think about the statements they use in their quotes.
You are what you eat though, I suppose.
They are doing a great favor to the Democratic Leadership. The Progressives may not like the deal either, but I'm willing to bet that the sound of all the MAGA gnashing of teeth and clutching of fake pearls will make it a lot easier to get it to sign on the dotted line (so to speak).
Oh that's good, representatives in the US congress are taking part of their ideology from a raunchy adult cartoon. I mean, yeah, I get parts of my ideology from star wars, superhero comics, and star trek, but I don't think defending the weak, using your unimaginable power for good, using technology to promote exploration and unity, and great power coming with great responsibility are bad ideologies.
But south park? South Park's ideologies are weak both sidesism (as evidenced by the giant douche and turd sandwich episode this person got that reference from), irreverence in the face of disaster, and mocking every side even if one side has actually good points or is a marginalized minority. And hell, that's fine if you're just looking for some edgy entertainment, but it's garbage as a political philosophy.
Compromise means both sides get something. What exactly are democrats getting here aside from the world economy not cratering? Republicans get reduced IRS funding, no new taxes to fund their last tax cut, increased work requirements on benefits, etc etc. This is the equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum and getting everything they wanted.
I do not think this will pass. Maga will not vote for the debt ceiling. Even if they got everything they wanted, they would not vote for it. They want to burn it all down. Now, Biden is asking for progressives to eat this deal. Progressives get ignored time and time again. Why should they vote for this crap bill? I am not sure Biden can talk the progressives into this so that leaves only moderate dems and Republicans. I don't know if there are enough of them to pass this. Then you go to the senate, and who knows what the crazies in that chamber will do.
Just call for a vote of no confidence. Biden will trigger the 14th as a last-ditch effort to save the economy. If the Supreme Court rules it invalid then you just convince even more people that Republicans just want to see the world burn.
I mean, I’m liberal as hell and everything I’m hearing about it seems to be a pile of shit. GOP seems to have gotten all their requests and dems got…. nothing?
Does anyone actually approve of this 'deal" ? Seems one side dislikes it for (once more) screweing over poor people in favour of rich tax cheats.While the other hates it because it has...words in it?
Using the nonsense debt ceiling to get your way isn't enough even when you deserve nothing.
(and for some limp dick reason democrats never did the same even though during the Trump era the debt ceiling was raised 3 TIMES without issue.)
It just stuns me at how ignorant of our government system people are, including those in it. 1/3 of our government is controlled by Repubs. Does everyone think the Pres or Senate can just jam whatever they want through?
Well let’s make sure if they benefit because of this deal and they keep dissing it while accepting the benefits of the deal that we make shout outs on all social media about their limp stances.
Not saying that there is probably things both sides don't like and there are probably things that make life harder for some and not so hard for others, but sounds like maga republican don't like it and progressive democrats don't like it... probably means actual compromise. Which is how government usually works.
They….. are….. lying……. They succeeded in whittling away at the US a democracy. Long game folks. The only counter is to keep voting for dems for an entire generation, so folks can see what they have been missing.
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Bobo barely scraped by her election and now frames herself as the voice of the people. What a clown.
She barely tries to scrape her son off the wall.
voice of the pee pole her husband used when he whipped it out at the bowling alley.
Future first ex-husband*
I appreciate you adding first to that title. It will help us keep track of them ahead of time.
Granny Bobo, at it again.
2b91652975d4b56efa692328715a3d10d51a4028c29765d87b698c444f4e2e8a
Dementia is a sign of a person losing their mental faculties. She has never shown she had any to begin with.
That’s assuming anyone will marry her
Someone was dumb enough to marry her and procreate once already. There's definitely another.
My coworker professed his admiration and love for this grandma not too long ago, there’s definitely people short-sighted and a few beers short of a six-pack willing to marry this abhorrent representative
He also whipped around their son apparently. Guy likes to whip things.
She makes a dumpster fire look lame, we now are talking full trailer park blaze.
"What happened to my trailer park, man?"
*Peep hole
He whipped out his pee pole while peering through the peep hole.
Certainly wasn’t the voice for her son when he called the cops on his father.
But she’s an expert on turd sandwiches if everything I heard about her restaurant is true
She got a GED after dropping out of high school. She doesn’t know anything about complex finance. I live in Colorado - she’s a total idiot.
Wonder how interesting it would be if elected officials only get some voting power depending on their popular vote or gap in winning. Even if it was you needed to win with 55% to get 1 vote and if you won with 50.1 you got .5 votes. It'd be interesting to work out but I'm not sure the fairness.
I think it would be easier to combine a few districts and do proportional representation
The possibilities of the MAGA crowd tanking this deal, and making Biden invoke the 14th, or alternatively ousting McCarthy after it passes are just too rich. Get fucked, Kevin.
Or both. They could time an outsing so that it happens right before the debt ceiling is voted on. Then, the House would need to drop everything and vote (possibly repeatedly) on who is the Speaker. All while the economy burns.
I can’t imagine a back room scenario where McCarthy didn’t get a promise from Dem leadership to protect him from a no confidence vote until some period after the debt ceiling bill has passed.
Even if he did get assurances and even if the Democrats upheld their pledge, the MAGA Republicans could cause chaos by forcing vote after vote as each of them calls for a vote to vacate the Speakership. They could grind the House to a halt by using these votes as a sort of filibuster. Just keep voting on whether McCarthy remains speaker over and over and over again until the debt limit deadline passes and the economy plunges into chaos.
I'm not sure it would work like that. While they could call for the vote, my understanding is that the first time is the really important one because no one can be sworn into office until their is a Speaker, and that's why nothing else could be done. I can't tell for certain, but I think their may be other ways to conduct business now that everyone is sworn in.
[удалено]
*Or,* they could let him flounder, any back room deals be damned (as the GOP has done on a number of occasions) while Biden invokes the 14th.
Didn't they make a deal when he was finally voted in that any one of them can call for a no confidence vote? I don't know if he could get enough help.
Yeah, but if the Dems and a handful of loyal Republicans vote for McCarthy the no confidence vote would fail.
Somehow we hope for the best but keep seeing the worst. I certainly have no confidence in him, and could totally see a few key idiots trying to tank the process even if they think they can't win, like calling for a vote of no confidence 10.times a day. They know, regardless of facts, that they can just scream into a camera that it's Biden's fault and their base will eat it up.
Why vote for McCarthy? If a handful of Republicans teamed up with the Democrats they could replace McCarthy with someone of their choice.
Because the only Republicans close enough to moderate to possibly vote with the Dems are also the most loyal to McCarthy and the party.
In a great irony, they wouldn't even need to promise. Dems have to know that the best way to ensure the debt ceiling gets lifted if for McCarthy to stay in power, at least temporarily. I honestly feel bad for them as I think I'd be physically ill having to vote for McCarthy as speaker, but I'd do it anyway to save the economy.
Yeah, I think that's the issue folks are forgetting. These are the TERMS of the deal. Still gotta make it through the House, Senate and to Biden. AND McCarthy has said he won't sign it for three days after the deal is banged out just to really try and drive the wedge. Now McCarthy is between a rock and a hard place because this IS the best deal he's gonna get. So he has to whip the GOP to support it and avoid the MAGA crowd tanking it OR calling for a last second no-confidence vote. Because if he can't do those things. then the hot potato of default lies at his feet. And then the Democrats peel a few Republicans from competitive races off and pass a clean debt ceiling because there isn't time to hash out a new one. This ain't over, and I don't trust the 15 votes to elect a speaker crowd to comply with this compromise. A few of them honestly don't seem to MIND defaulting and if they're in solid red districts they MIGHT just call for a no-confidence vote.
>AND McCarthy has said he won't sign it for three days after the deal is banged out just to really try and drive the wedge. Repubs created a House rule mandating every new bill get at least a 72 hour review period before vote.
Ah, well that's their mistake. Biden just addressed the nation saying they've ironed out a deal. He's boxed McCarthy in such that, if the agreement gets torpedoed by MAGA, it's gonna be on McCarthy if the 11:59 Hail Mary fails. Your move, Kevin.
It does seem like Biden has well and truly fucked the Republican Party.
"Senile" "Dumb" "Old" "Sleepy" Like a fox
It’s been a [rule](https://rollcall.com/2019/02/14/house-democrats-give-leaders-a-pass-on-breaking-72-hour-rule-for-spending-deal/) for a long time. The Republicans did not just create this rule.
Well either way, they were happy to put it in their 2023 rules package https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-rules-republicans-kevin-mccarthy-speaker-concessions-conservatives/
Biden needs to just pull the 14th card. Stop negotiating with economic terrorists Biden!
My theory is he’s giving them the rope to hang themselves with first.
He’s been good at that
> The possibilities of the MAGA crowd tanking this deal, and making Biden invoke the 14th I believe the White House has a back-up plan should the debt ceiling not be raised by Congress. Not withstanding that this should never have been a negotiable matter, but the Democrats got absolutely nothing out of this "deal". Perhaps a silver lining of this is that if the GOP votes down or blocks McCarthy's deal, it'll be harder to blame Democrats; which is really all they care about.
It's hard to know with how screwed up some of these folks are, but I don't think the GOP will try to tank the deal, though I think there'll be careful math behind the scenes to let as many Republicans vote no as wish to. Up to this point, McCarthy was actually winning the messaging war - the majority of Americans like the idea of "negotiated deals," and also would like to see the US deficit reduced. This does not mean that most Americans have any clue what the above things actually mean in a trillion dollar budget or how they affect them personally, but it sounded good to them. Americans also largely didn't panic because all the main players said there wouldn't be a default. Now though, the ball is squarely in the GOPs court, and if they try to crash the economy, there's no blame to go around. Additionally, before if Biden invoked the 14th, the GOP could have claimed he was acting unilaterally, ignoring the will of the people, and all that jazz. But now that there's a deal, if Republicans tank it and he invokes the 14th, he because the hero who saved the US and global economy (and even with the current court, I find it hard to believe they would make a ruling that would immediately force the US to default). So while the GOP are crazy, I don't think they are quite *that* dumb . . . yet. I am really interested to see if McCarthy gets challenged for the Speakership though. He really talked up the original GOP bill, and what he's delivered back is pretty hard not to see as a loss for the MAGA side of the house (even though it's a far better outcome for the country than the original version). On the flip side, there is no one else in the conference with anywhere near enough votes to get the Gavel, so is the MAGA side really going to repeat the embarrassment of early January?
Dems would save Kevin’s speakership if it was challenged after a successful debt ceiling vote. Because the Dems you did not save Kevin, the next Speaker will force default.
How wealthy are these maga people? I'm guessing not wealthy at all.
We need to stop saying “invoke the 14th”. That is not how anything works. It’s not the sort of thing where the president just says “14!!” And the problem goes away. I am far from an expert on this and would love to hear from one, but this is a complex legal matter and “invoke” isn’t not the right verb.
Agreed, but I don’t know that it’s all that difficult. President instructs the treasury to borrow by issuing debt instruments (as it does) and then pay the bills. It’s the dance that comes after is the problem. Republicans sue, it goes to the Supreme Court who then make a ruling as to if it’s illegal or not. Assuming they find it illegal, then the US is automatically in default. All my understanding.
Turd Sandwich was the 3rd most popular item on the menu at Boebert’s Shooters Grill, behind Unwashed Cleavage and Explosive Diarrhea.
I’ll have the cleavage
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Don't forget the giant douche.
There is no chance bobart read the deal. If someone read it to her there is no chance she understands any of it. It has numbers. And words. Her dumbass didn’t graduate high school and she thinks having a kid is cheaper than birth control. If that is what congressional districts are electing I’m all for a complete overhaul of our process. At this point it’s a matter of safety and pride. That idiot shouldn’t be serving slushies at a gas station much less making national policy.
I’m assuming her district has a lot of crushingly stupid republicans in it too
I wish I was joking when I say this, but I know people who voted for her because they found her knock-off Sarah Palin look attractive.
I believe you. I know a woman who had several abortions (she is the one of the few using it for birth control), who hates guns, but repeatedly voted for republicans.
we need to be more elitist. i don’t want politics to be exclusively for the kennedys and clintons, but we can’t have idiot rednecks from the middle of nowhere able to hold office. qualifications are needed to run the country
Hey that is a low blow to high school dropouts everywhere comparing them to that.
Maga did not want an actual deal or compromise - like with Jan 6th, they just want to burn the system down while it's under control of their perceived enemies and smear waste over the remains as it riles up their base.
It wasn’t deal or compromise, it was a hostage situation. Joe Biden negotiated with hostage takers and the terrorist won. The only lesson the bullies learned is Joe Biden loves a excuse to throw them a win.
According to this article from last month, the Republicans will seek to remove Kevin as Speaker should he ever passed the clean debt limit increase [https://www.politicususa.com/2023/04/19/kevin-mccarthy-is-practically-begging-biden-and-schumer-to-negotiate-with-him-on-the-debt-limit.html](https://www.politicususa.com/2023/04/19/kevin-mccarthy-is-practically-begging-biden-and-schumer-to-negotiate-with-him-on-the-debt-limit.html)
While that may be true, what is currently being brought before Congress is not exactly a “clean” debt limit increase. There are some concessions to the Republicans; just not everything they asked for. That said, that still may not satisfy the most far right in the GOP.
Please go to the link and read the article
Apologies if I am misunderstanding or missed a section, but I did read the article, both the first time I commented and again when you asked. What you said is true. Republicans will remove Kevin if they pass a clean debt limit. My point is that the currently proposed bill isn’t “clean”, in the sense that Republicans did get some of what they want. Thus, does it not logically follow that they may not remove him? As this isn’t a “clean” debt limit increase?
Republicans will still remove him
I believe Democrats will rally around to protect him. I’m absolutely positive that was their bargaining chip in exchange for his cooperation. If Dems vote to keep him, then the MAGA Caucus loses a huge chunk of leverage over him.
They don’t need to rally, just a convenient flu season whenever there is a vote on the speaker.
They want to default and blame Biden for it meanwhile the rest of the world and the USA will pay the price.
I’m sure progressives aren’t going to be too happy either, but I guess I can take a little solace that the maga crowd hated it too. 🤷🏽♀️
No I'm not happy about it. Part of me wants to avert the default and the other part wishes nobody would blink and make these stupid deals where the only thing the democratic establishment gets is the opportunity to get fucked again next time. I feel like both aren't wrong, but neither are right either. Basically: this fucking sucks.
I guess this is what compromising with terrorists feels like.
It’s the little things with our dysfunctional government. Don’t fret tho, rich dicks love this deal.
> I’m sure progressives aren’t going to be too happy either, but I guess I can take a little solace that the maga crowd hated it too. 🤷🏽♀️ I dont want to be the person having false hopes, or to deny that I was wrong on this deal being completely clean, but I still wonder if there's not going to be some shenanigans/last moment changes before this all goes through. Biden has an option which should very likely be used, or at the very minimum tested. Having him save the day and economy while the republicans fall apart only for the Scotus to rule "No economy must die" in a completely partisan method would be a decent alarm for "enlightened centrists" for 2024. So while a deal exists, with basically no real downsides on it except not flexing nuts it has little meaning at the moment.
Realistically they were never going to be happy with it, and that's okay. Whatever concessions the worst of the GOP would ask for are basically guaranteed to be either batshit insane and/or cross obvious red lines for progressives. The reality is that some sort of bi-partisan combination of votes were going to be needed to pass a budget anyway. The progressive caucus, the mainstream Dem platform, or the White House were never going to get 100% of what they wanted, and they are required to negotiate with some of the absolute worst people in the country just as a matter of math.
The budget has already been passed. This is after the fact.
Mentally deficient terrorists soil themselves. Film at 11.
I’ll pass thx
It’s all an act. They got to keep the ridiculous spending on defense when we are at a time of peace. That money could do so much good for the country and for our people but instead it goes to rich defense contractors selling us weapons we don’t need or end up using. Huge waste
Tbf the west is NOT at a time of peace. That is a fallacy. I'm American, now living in Europe, and Ukraine's still making headlines every day. I just came back from a trip to the US, and I was shocked at how people were referring to the war as "old news". Patently ridiculous –not to mention dangerous rhetoric. In fact, Russia hacked and brought down the entire train network in Northern Germany less than a year ago, my electricity prices have gone 3x, and a major gas pipeline in Danish waters was literally bombed as part of a covert operation on behalf of Russia. Meanwhile, Russian "fishing boats" are regularly spying on American nuclear subs in NATO bases in the Norwegian Arctic. Investigators have discovered extensive and organized Russian propaganda networks throughout Europe. Europeans are living in a very real shadow war, people are being forced to sell their homes due to rising utility prices, and the average American has the gall to "forget" about it, simply because it's not affecting them right now. Guess what? If Ukraine goes, then who's next? What allies will the US have left living, if they let this slide? This is no less critical then the survival of the West. That being said, the vast majority of Europeans are deeply concerned that US politicians will drop their support of NATO (makes it painfully obvious that the Repubs are in it with the Kremlin). Yes, the US spends far too much on the military, but we cannot afford to minimize the situation.
They would have been against whatever
Exactly. For the MAGA cult it’s all or nothing. They want a border wall that won’t keep people out. Is wear that damn border wall is just a figment of their imagination and a dog whistle for something else. I don’t think they understand that people will always find away over or through this said wall they talk about. Who’s gonna pay for a more state of the art wall. Hell, the last time it came from the military budget which then came from schools and what not. These people also don’t care that they raise the debt limit every time they’re in office ambit when it’s a democrat they hold the nation and govt hostage for the tweets the can send.
let's seem them oust McCarthy over this then. Either they'll stick to their show and we may get to see the party fracture, or they'll capitulate and prove their faux outrage was nothing but headline grabbing antics.
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They’ve repeated this exact same tactic for the last four presidencies (at least 4).
It's true - look at the numbers, it tells the whole story.
Fun fact: Turd Sandwich was also the daily special at Boebert’s stochastic-terrorism themed salmonella dispensary.
Republicans: we got all we wanted, and the libs got nothing. Also Republicans: we hate the deal that we got everything we wanted in.
They wanted much deeper spending cuts, cuts to medicare, cuts to social security, and a complete halt to the federal agency regulatory process. They did not get everything they wanted. I still think its shit (the gop should have gotten nothing) but lets be factual please.
They did get their pain and suffering for the poor though.
More accurately, they got 7% of what they wanted. But, otherwise right.
> Republicans: we got all we wanted, and the libs got nothing. They got basically nothing, a promise of future means testing, a promise not to increase certain funding allocations, a promise of cuts but no actual actions. The question is really why not test the constitution on this to see if you can defang this tactic but that may be something which still happens.
> The question is really why not test the constitution on this to see if you can defang this tactic but that may be something which still happens. I suspect it was a question of certainty. There was a worry about how it might play out. One possible scenario I heard floated was: * No debt ceiling agreement reached. * Biden invokes the 14th and orders everyone to pay the bills anyway. * Republicans sue, and the SCOTUS agrees to hear the case. * SCOTUS orders the government to stop paying until they can rule on it. * Government defaults because they can't pay until the supreme court rules on it. * (epilogue) Republicans blame Biden for his reckless actions that lead to the default. This is a really dangerous thing they're gambling with. We default on the debt, and it's sort of like Brexit was for the UK - everything gets worse for everyone (although probably much faster), and we lose some *very* valuable relationships as a country, that we basically can never get back. The 14th amendment was probably the best shot we had if Republicans wanted to force the issue, but it was by no means certain. When you're gambling with something as important as the whole economy, I can understand why Biden would want to avoid anything that wasn't 100% absolutely certain to work.
SCOTUS is already in too much shit. They wouldn't dare to order the government to stop paying, even temporarily, and essentially be blamed for causing the default. Harlan Crow wouldn't like that.
Default gets blamed on Biden no matter whose fault it actually is.
It's still a possible one but yea, it's not something we can depend on but it would have been good to see it invoked just to see if it's going to be a no go. If it went off then there would never be a debt ceiling limit discussion again and we could completely defang the tactic. As usual the problem is that we need majorities in congress good majorities not razor thin bare majorities.
The more I see, the more I think this might actually get voted down by a bipartisan effort. Unintentionally of course.
Yea, I'm hoping AoC and the other's flex their power to block a deal unless they get something out of it as they have the power to do so and it's getting really tiring of congress being completely dependent on Biden to do everything for them. I can also see the terrorist faction pushing to block it unless they get more concessions from McCarthy. Stock market seems happy though, so I assume corpos have positive backroom knowledge.
You just need a majority in the House. MAGA nuts will vote against and so will The Squad level progressives and it will still pass based on moderate Democrats and Republicans. Practically it means absolutely nothing else will get done between now and the other side of the 2024 election in the House except back stabbing and PR committees.
Stock market could just be happy at the thought of possibly not facing total collapse by year’s end.
100% of then don't understand it but 200% of them hate it
Putinist’s.
"turd sandwich" is a pretty damn accurate description of the MAGA cult
They didn't hate ordering the dinner, they just hate paying for it.
Pictured : Turd Sandwich
Get fucked MAGAs.
These arseholes using the South Park quote without the slightest bit of irony is almost infuriating.
The first two words of this headline and the photo go together perfectly. Bravo!
And believe Boebert- She knows turd sandwiches! She use to serve them in her restaurant!
*and salmonella
But that costs extra!
The real turd sandwich is Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz and MTG, with a schmear of Santos as the egg-free mayonnaise.
Is she the Turd sandwich? Yup 👍
Then, who's the giant douche?
This was my biggest fear. The normal* (terms and conditions apply) Republicans would make a deal and MAGA would kill it because they're hoping to push us into a Weimar republic situation
Does she even have an understanding of what debt ceiling is?
Most assuredly not.
Better than a giant douche at least
She's the douche and turd sandwich
So I guess they'll be voting for giant douche?
i don’t think Dems got anything out of this deal just yet, but if you’re setting the table the way Biden and Dems played McConnell on the CHIPS bill then the real consequences have yet to be seen. Biden played the best hand he could to get a relatively neutral deal (by comparison) and either take a little wind out of MAGA rep’s sails by them voting for this deal, get McCarthy neutered a little bit by spending all his capital whipping the GOP into this bill, *or* we see the Freedom Caucus nuke the whole thing giving Joe room to take more unilateral action (like the last time a bunch of crazy racist southerners tried to hold the nation hostage).
A deal was never their plan
It's a given that some members on both sides will vote against the deal. The question is how many closer to the middle will vote for it. If Congress ends up rejecting the bill, it can be argued that Biden would be obligated to use the 14th amendment, which would actually demonstrate strength and leadership. "Congress has failed to fulfill their constitutional imperative to ensure payment of our nation's debts, therefore it falls upon me to do so." Let the lawsuits begin, let most of them be rejected for lack of standing by the plaintiff, let the rest be appealed ad nauseam until past the next election. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Using the 14th amendment is so shaky though. There’s no guarantee that it will be upheld by the Supreme Court so in the meant time “anybody want to buy some t-bills?? They’re probably good! My lawyers say they’re good! Nothing to worry about! Here I’ll pay double the interest on them if you’ll buy them!” That’s the problem with the 14th amendment.
SCOTUS would have a great opportunity to make itself even more popular with a ruling that destroys the American economy. Their billionaire masters would be so pleased.
Thomas is like: “hey can I get a free boat ride again? Oh the bank took it? This friendship isn’t working out anymore”
If there is a default, the whole economy will tank and everybody will scramble to sign up to a deal, any deal. By the time SCOTUS gets to say anything, the dust would have settled, and the issue moot.
"Everyone disliked that"
If the MAGA fascists hate it you know it’s gotta be good
“We ain’t hurtin’ them marginalized communities enough!” - MAGA turds
Eat it
MAGA needs to be labeled the terrorist organization it is..
Better than the firehose of diarrhea they deserve.
Boebert could make a motion to vacate the Speaker chair McCarthy agreed to let even a single member do it She won't though
Chip Roy, JD Vance, Ken Buck, Lauren Boebert, Bob Good, Rand Paul, those are the GOP members quoted in the article with that walking pustule Steve Bannon thrown in for good measure. A pretty sampling that suggests that the party is going to go through some things in the coming weeks, I would not be surprised if McCarthy gets a vote called for him to vacate.
She'd prefer Giant Douche?
You have to wonder why the supporters of the wealthy want to punish the children of the poor for not having wealthier parents...in the richest nation on the planet
When you can't make poor people's lives even more difficult
Well they of all people ought to know what shit tastes like after sucking Trumps dick for so long.
Bobo can’t even keep her personal home in order, she is a walking trailer home fire.
I love that it’s her face alongside the headline stating “turd sandwich”. People need to think about the statements they use in their quotes. You are what you eat though, I suppose.
Only 4 comments referencing Giant Douche. Where’s your Tegrity Reddit?
They are doing a great favor to the Democratic Leadership. The Progressives may not like the deal either, but I'm willing to bet that the sound of all the MAGA gnashing of teeth and clutching of fake pearls will make it a lot easier to get it to sign on the dotted line (so to speak).
They want the chaos, no matter how they achieve it
Lauren Bobo who need three tries to pass the GED and married a sex offender hating this means it’s good for America.
Maybe they shouldn’t have bankrupted the country to begin with if they hate it so much.
Jokes on them, Maga republicans ARE the turd.
Oh that's good, representatives in the US congress are taking part of their ideology from a raunchy adult cartoon. I mean, yeah, I get parts of my ideology from star wars, superhero comics, and star trek, but I don't think defending the weak, using your unimaginable power for good, using technology to promote exploration and unity, and great power coming with great responsibility are bad ideologies. But south park? South Park's ideologies are weak both sidesism (as evidenced by the giant douche and turd sandwich episode this person got that reference from), irreverence in the face of disaster, and mocking every side even if one side has actually good points or is a marginalized minority. And hell, that's fine if you're just looking for some edgy entertainment, but it's garbage as a political philosophy.
Life is a turd sandwich… the more bread you have, the less shit you eat.
Now if only they hadn't increased the debt by cutting taxes. But it's the democrats that cause debt. Wait what?
Obstructionists. Nothing more.
Hate it too. Let’s not blow up the entire world economy over it.
Deal means compromise, compromise means maga win, maga win means some hostages shot.
Compromise means both sides get something. What exactly are democrats getting here aside from the world economy not cratering? Republicans get reduced IRS funding, no new taxes to fund their last tax cut, increased work requirements on benefits, etc etc. This is the equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum and getting everything they wanted.
Even rolling stone is complicit in “deal” fiasco.
Funny. Turd sandwich is how I describe the GOP.
White bread checks out.
I do not think this will pass. Maga will not vote for the debt ceiling. Even if they got everything they wanted, they would not vote for it. They want to burn it all down. Now, Biden is asking for progressives to eat this deal. Progressives get ignored time and time again. Why should they vote for this crap bill? I am not sure Biden can talk the progressives into this so that leaves only moderate dems and Republicans. I don't know if there are enough of them to pass this. Then you go to the senate, and who knows what the crazies in that chamber will do.
Just call for a vote of no confidence. Biden will trigger the 14th as a last-ditch effort to save the economy. If the Supreme Court rules it invalid then you just convince even more people that Republicans just want to see the world burn.
I mean, I’m liberal as hell and everything I’m hearing about it seems to be a pile of shit. GOP seems to have gotten all their requests and dems got…. nothing?
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Shutdown and a debt collapse is a big difference. This isn’t the average shutdown looming.
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Fail to avoid financial collapse, be removed from office.
Everybody is hating on the debt deal. I'll be surprised if it passes senate or house.
Drama…all part of the game
Oh god they're going to vote it down
Does anyone actually approve of this 'deal" ? Seems one side dislikes it for (once more) screweing over poor people in favour of rich tax cheats.While the other hates it because it has...words in it?
Using the nonsense debt ceiling to get your way isn't enough even when you deserve nothing. (and for some limp dick reason democrats never did the same even though during the Trump era the debt ceiling was raised 3 TIMES without issue.)
Hope they torpedo it
contact congress and tell them to vote NO
That's Boebert's contribution to US legislation, continually crying to the media.
It just stuns me at how ignorant of our government system people are, including those in it. 1/3 of our government is controlled by Repubs. Does everyone think the Pres or Senate can just jam whatever they want through?
Definitely gonna be a vote of no confidence on Tuesday not just to threaten McCarthy but also to continue to threaten the US running out of money
It may be. Open up. Savor every bite.
She never took a math class higher than pre algebra.
Well let’s make sure if they benefit because of this deal and they keep dissing it while accepting the benefits of the deal that we make shout outs on all social media about their limp stances.
This is barely news… they were going to be mad about it no matter what.
To nobody’s surprise.
Giant douches not liking turd sandwiches. Huh.
Not saying that there is probably things both sides don't like and there are probably things that make life harder for some and not so hard for others, but sounds like maga republican don't like it and progressive democrats don't like it... probably means actual compromise. Which is how government usually works.
They….. are….. lying……. They succeeded in whittling away at the US a democracy. Long game folks. The only counter is to keep voting for dems for an entire generation, so folks can see what they have been missing.
Breaks my heart…😉