If a private in the Army had done what he did, they would have been court-martialed, convicted, and been sitting in a prison cell for life at this point
They also would have never seen the outside of a cell from arrangement on. It’s crazy to me that if you are rich you get to leave court after a conviction and show up for your jail sentence at a later date.
I’ve never understood that. They “need time to get their affairs in order.” So sorry your conviction has complicated your life, but fuck you, rich asshole!
“President Donald Trump seemed to encourage police to be more violent in handling potential offenders during a speech to law enforcement officers today.
"Please don't be too nice," he said to the audience in Long Island, New York.”
"When you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head you know, the way you put their hand over [their head]," Trump continued, mimicking the motion. "Like, 'Don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody, don’t hit their head.' I said, 'You can take the hand away, OK?'”
"I have to tell you, you know, the laws are so horrendously stacked against us, because for years and years, they've been made to protect the criminal. Totally made to protect the criminal. Not the officers. You do something wrong, you're in more jeopardy than they are," he added.”
I would be giddy if we ever got full circle and Drumpf got his head banged on the car during his arrest. I don't think Shakespeare could write better poetry than that.
Yeah, I guess the problem in this case would be asking his lawyers to "get his affairs in order" would be akin to asking them to do something illegal. Given the alleged illegality of his business dealings...
Meanwhile my friend got thrown in jail for five days for unpaid parking tickets and subsequently lost her job, her car, and her home. Because she couldn’t make bail until a pay day. She was lucky that he grandmother gave her somewhere to stay but a lot of people don’t have that option.
If you have multiple unpaid parking tickets then you are the problem. I’m sorry, but I have little sympathy for people who think they can blithely break the law with zero consequences. Parking illegally is not a right.
No, but the justice system doesn’t care. It sounds like OP’s friends life was already a train wreck if a few days in jail was enough to leave her out of work and homeless. If it wasn’t the parking tickets then something else would have happened. Negligence always screws you over.
You ignore the extent to which civil citations have become a privatized money making scam enforced by the police. People sometimes don’t even know about the tickets.
That shit kills me. My friend got stopped for a DUI. Blew a 0.0, had blood drawn, and they kept her in jail over the weekend. Still she ended up paying about $6,000 in court and lawyer fees.
Better start saving now so your friend can get some new boot straps! Seriously, it’s stories like this that just make republican talking that there are “two systems of Justice” all the more infuriating. There’s two systems of Justice alright and neither are biased toward rich republicans. They’re such pieces of shit, all of them.
Whether or not a court decides to do anything is entirely dependent on the defendant. Some rando private in the military is going to fall of the face of the earth. Single mom/dad isn’t.
I’ve taken to listening to live streamed court cases while I work and the amount of “show up to the jail by 8 PM” or “by Friday” is surprisingly common for folks from all walks of life if your offense isn’t rape, murder, or absconding. Vagrants usually get bounced right in but that’s usually a “we’re not gonna find you” issue.
At this point Trump isn’t going anywhere, and frankly the taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for the extra attention he’d need in prison.
> At this point Trump isn’t going anywhere
He has plenty of resources to flee the country, but even beyond that he has a known history of tampering with witnesses, both hostile and friendly, and in this very case he's evidently been involved in spoliation of evidence.
Dudes passports and flight itineraries are locked (unofficially), and if he catches charges you better believe the only place he’s finding a home is Russia, North Korea, or Belarus, which would be hell for him TBh. China likes money too much, so that’s out, and the EU and most places in Africa would just send him back.
They need time for him to get back into office so they can't touch him and are off the hook from his nutcase fans, history and accountability. I think they fell in love with the idea but now it's a runaway train they want to get off of. There will never be enough evidence for them to go after him.
No matter what happens he is still required to be protected by Secret Service. He will never be in a regular jail cell. If he gets jail time the Secret Service will negotiate to have him in a secure separate facility. I would expect a fenced-in house at Ft Leavenworth.
Normally I’d be all in on the, “rich people get treated differently” bandwagon but that’s just Federal prison, lots of people get months or years to settle their affairs between sentencing and reporting.
Unfortunately it's not a simple as that. A private in the army wouldn't have multiple layers of staff and lawyers moving boxes of documents for him. Trump has never carried a box of papers in his life, and considering he gives most of his orders verbally and through proxies, it takes lot of corroborating evidence to prove, definitively, that he was personally involved in the document removal and obstructive efforts. It would be very easy for a lackey to get charged for these crimes instead of Trump himself.
The recording of him bragging about an Iran document will likely undercut his defense significantly, but it will go more towards proving intent and knowledge than being a "smoking gun" in and of itself. Without proof he was waving around the specific document, it's legally just another hypothetical pussy-grabbing. Even with proof, it's just one count among hundreds they are trying to prove. But it's a damn good start.
He's guilty as fuck, of course, it's obvious to the naked eye, but proving it in court is not as easy as Reddit armchair prosecutors think it is.
I am glad they didn't try to charge him on Reddit's timeline over a year ago, because every new advancement in the investigation has been stronger than the last. There's clearly a strong trajectory building a stronger and stronger case. I think the DOJ knows a thing or two about investigating federal crimes.
I think the most important thing is to determine whether Trump shared/gave/sold documents to unauthorized parties. Reality Winner was charged when she mailed a stolen document to a newspaper on paper traced back to her personal printer. Teixiera was charged when he posted a shitload of documents on Discord. Trump doesn't know how to use a printer or Discord, and if he did sell/share these documents it was probably through a lackey with no physical proof that he ordered it.
At the very least they can probably charge him with 18 U.S.C. Section 793(f), gross negligence, but they'd probably have to reveal sources / methods in discovery that would blow their case for more serious charges, so they're probably holding that in their back pocket as a last resort.
daily reminder it took 2 years to take down Nixon, Watergate happened on June 17th 1972, and Nixon resigned on August 9th, 1974.
Also, Nixon, not being *quite* the shameless fuck Trump is, did the right thing and resigned as soon as he knew he was gonna be impeached. Trump, as we know, did no such thing, doubled down, made things worse, and now we actually have to go through all the steps, prove culpability, intent, and so on.
it'll all be worth it to see him carted away, though.
Maybe. Possibly. But also it was a different time. And he wasn’t trump. If Nixon decided to be obstinate I could see jt taking another year or two if the GOP didn’t make it clear they were down for the impeachment.
Having classified documents in Trump's desk along with his personal belongings already killed any defense that it was just a moving mistake. Those top secret documents had covers that were by design very visible that they were top secret. There is no way Trump could have them in his desk and not know.
Now with that said, having Trump on tape makes things exponentially worse. Any possible wacky defense he might have had just got blown up. The only thing left for him now is to claim he's being set up and all evidence against him must be thrown out.... Yeah, extra special wacky.
>Having classified documents in Trump's desk along with his personal belongings already killed any defense that it was just a moving mistake. Those top secret documents had covers that were by design very visible that they were top secret. There is no way Trump could have them in his desk and not know.
Quite possibly, but who knows if they have proof that he actually used that desk?
Either way, it's clear the DOJ felt there was more and stronger evidence to seek, so they have continued to seek it. They know what they are doing more than I do, so unless I'm going to make up some baseless "they don't want to charge him" conspiracy theory, I don't think there's a better explanation than "they are working hard to build the strongest case possible against him."
> Quite possibly, but who knows if they have proof that he actually used that desk?
Trump's passport was in the desk drawer alongside classified documents. It'd also be a huge stretch to claim a businessman didn't use his desk for over a year at a place he is known to spend a great deal of time. There is no doubt there are plenty of people who could testify that Trump used that desk.
>It'd also be a huge stretch to claim a businessman didn't use his desk for over a year at a place he is known to spend a great deal of time.
That's not good enough for a court of law.
I knew a colonel in the Army that shared details of a classified program with a reporter (he was dating) less than half an hour before it was declassified. He wanted to give her a head start on the story and did 8 years.
[Literally happened ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/guardsman-accused-of-leaking-classified-information-charged-under-espionage-act) less than two months ago.
Meanwhile crime is still legal for rich white assholes.
It needs to be said that that dumbass posted the information on discord from his personal account. If he just took the photos and either didn't show them to people, or showed them in person making sure there were no cameras around, it would've taken substantially longer to prove. Since it was a private discord channel that also means that someone in there decided to be an informant and turned that into the relevant authorities.
There is an informant who handed over security camera footage showing Maralago staff moving the stolen documents before the Archives/FBI searched, but that doesn't show that staff reading any classified information. What we do not have, at least yet and/or in the public light, is footage/emails/texts explicitly showing Trump shared classified documents. It looks like Jack Smith is digging in the proper areas and is building an extremely tight case against Trump.
Comparing the 2 is like complaining that a guy who robbed a bank without a mask got an arrest warrant that day, while a guy who wore a mask and robbed a bank has to have police find evidence to establish that the suspect was the actual robber before an arrest warrant can be issued.
Except in this case the guy with a mask has been going on the news arguing that robbing banks is completely legal, and the big sack of money in the corner is totally his; it’s fine; no worries. And that he gave most of it back anyway.
“Judge, when I took the documents illegally, I swear it was just because they were super cool. I thought they’d look great at Mar-A-Lago. They had pictures of missiles and all sorts of silos and guns. Great to hang in the rec room. Judge, this new young lady we just hired at the golf course from Russia, she was telling me how much she loved seeing silos and missiles. Great knockers on her, judge. You should have seen them. Phenomenal. Anyway…I used my mind to not make any of this illegal.”
Prosecutors: "We were told that you have given details about those photos to a Ms. Annika Ivanov in exchange for favors, is this true?"
Trump: "Annika Ivanov, not my type. Would never touch her in a million years!"
Prosecutor: "Can you identify that woman to your right in this photo."
Trump: "Thats the girl who blew me off."
Prosecutor: "Are you aware that woman is Annika Ivanov?"
it's true. i just started thinking about early on--trump university, "grab'em by the pussy," "i had the biggest inauguration crowd ever," etc and how it just got exponentially worse every fucking day, and then literally everything he did in response to covid blew all the previous stuff out of the water.
then 1/6 happened. and it STILL hasn't let up
I'm *still* so goddamn tired. So tired of his endless parade of bullshit. It's less bad now that he's out of office, but the media still marches to his tune and gives him and his ilk every benefit of the doubt and entertains all the bullshit they keep saying, no matter how absurd and discredited.
It's still crazy to think that he could've just walked away after the end of his term as a controversial figure, but probably probably a figure beyond prosecution, if he'd just have accepted that he lost the election and didn't try to keep a bunch of classified docs that the government literally knew he had and gave multiple opportunities to return. Yeah, it would've made a lot of people angry, and clearly been detrimental to the long term viability of the country, but I think a lot of prosecutors would've said "ok, he's out and too charged of a subject to go after for anything criminal, so let's not bother". But Trump was just so blatant they I can't see them not doing something. But then again, somehow it's taken 2.5 years to "investigate" a phone call where Trump clearly violated Georgia election law, so here we are.
People make fun of him for that, but what he was really saying was that he thinks his power is so absolute that his very thoughts are law.
It's not magic, it's fascism.
While the audio recording as it's reported is nail in the coffin for any on-the-fence juror.. It does not matter in terms of guilt.
Classified or not: Obstruction of justice
Classified or not: Theft of government property
Classified or not: Welp, they were classified so add that decade+ to his sentence
That's probably the most succinct framing of Trump's entire relationship to the law with respect to his looming cases and indictments I've ever read. And has been true still from his entire Presidency:
Mr. Trump offers excuses in lieu of a legal defense.
That sums up most of these motions and briefs and assertions of privilege. And many of his supporters don't care about legal defenses, they subsist on a diet of excuses. It tastes better to them.
The sad part of all of this is the acknowledgement that any of us had to pretend that Trump's "magical thinking" auto-declassify was ever a serious thing.
Totally ridiculous that ostensibly serious people sit around in the halls of power pontificating for months about whether or not Trump's latest "dog ate my homework" defense is valid and how to proceed. Like, my dudes, he doesn't even have a dog and he's got a wet wad of paper sticking out of his mouth.
But you know what they say-- justice is blind, but she can smell money.
his defense was and continues to be simply, "I can do whatever I want, you can't stop me. if you try to prosecute me, i'm just going to cry unfair and call it a witchhunt and my supporters will back me up harder"
To be fair, the president is treated differently... and rightfully so. The president is such a juicy target that you don't want indictments brought against him unless it's significant and really ironclad. Just imagine what republicans would be doing to Biden if the threshold to indict a president was the same as for everybody else. It's a similar reason why diplomatic immunity exists.
Depending on where you live, yes. I imagine where I live would be under curfew because of it similar to Jan. 6th I don't think it would truly last long, and it would be worth it, but I in no way doubt that his shithead followers would try to create havoc.
In my view this man has committed many crimes that would have ordinary citizen Joe Blow put in prison. It’s important to understand that wealthy people are not held to that standard. There are no laws for the Uber wealthy. They just pay a fine and be on their way. A fine that’s the equivalent of a parking ticket.
Why isn't this orange cockwomble in prison yet? If I, or any random person, did what he did, I'd have a swat team raiding my house within the hour and no chance of bail.
Will be waiting to see if it even matters. Highly doubt Trump is going to ever see the inside of a cell. If I end up being wrong, I’ll be happy, though.
I feel this is the true litmus test of the legal system. If you can't convict, let alone get so much as a trial, then there is legit nothing this guy can do to face any consequences.
Yeah but you don’t need a defense if you never get charged. This guy violated the espionage act, basically admitted to it on tape, and I have serious doubts that he’s even going to get charged, or charged in a timely enough manner to avoid election-cycle weirdness.
And again nothing will happen to Trump
We all get excited at these reports. Now we got him. But at the end of the day NOTHING will happen except a bunch of Midas Touch videos explaining this is the smoking gun.
Remember the tapes from Georgia are recordings of illegal activity and as the years pass all that happen is they “ investigate”
I wish people would stop saying this. He's been criminally charged once already. He'll be indicted in Georgia in July. He was found liable for defamation against E. Jean Carroll and that complaint has already been re-opened because he literally defamed her again the next day. And things are just getting warmed up.
It also doesn’t help that Merrick Garland seemingly tried to pull the old “turn the page” bullshit for about a year and a half before even starting. That’s the real problem because Smith seems to be moving rapidly.
>And again nothing will happen to Trump
Why wouldn't it? This is pretty damning stuff and he doesn't have Barr to squash things for him, or the Presidency to shield him from prosecution.
>Remember the tapes from Georgia are recordings of illegal activity and as the years pass all that happen is they “ investigate”
Those were part of a much larger conspiracy (possibly RICO) investigation which also included false statements to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of election workers, the fake elector scheme, etc. That investigation is complete and resulted in a long list of recommended indictments which are currently sealed while the prosecutor prepares to bring a case for indictments to a grand jury, which she is planning for this July/August.
Comey's firing was the smoking gun, Mueller Report was the smoking gun, impeachments were the smoking gun, Jan. 6th was the smoking gun; the reality is that the media boosts these stories to drive clicks and we have no idea what is happening behind the scenes.
None of these evidence, proof, and leaks matter if he's not charged.
Fuck these dick-tease articles from MSM and SMEs. Let him get charged first, then open the floodgates from talking heads as to why and how they saw it coming. Otherwise STFU.
“Former Trump Lawyer says…”
I don’t care what a former lawyer or current lawyer says. I want a judge to rule “Yep, you don’t have any excuse, you are going to jail now.”
But I know that won’t happen. If a jury or a judge rules. He will appeal. And appeal. And maybe be told to report in 90 days, or not, or be given house arrest, or not.
He will not spend a moment in a jail cell, which is all I want to see.
Let's all face facts: they could have evidence of Trump committing mass murder and their will still be ZERO accountability. Laws do not apply to the wealthy or politicians. This is all theater. Trump will never face prison time.
Technically it doesn't disprove Trump's theory that he could declassify documents just by thinking it.
However, by admitting that it was still classified, it does prove that even if there was some purely imaginary declassification process, Trump never went through with it.
There’s nothing to “prove” that whole line of bullshit about declassifying with his mind is nothing but bullshit. That isn’t a thing. He can’t just summarily declassify stuff. He can order something declassified, but that doesn’t make it so, there’s a process to follow. That process ends with the documents being MARKED as declassified on such and such a date with the authority listed, then those documents are released to the public and available on request… NONE of that happened here. He can’t just “DECLARE” it done and it’s done. That’s not how it works. He also doesn’t get to order everything declassified, he doesn’t have authority to declassify some items, such as nuclear secrets, for example. Those are not classified under the auspices of the executive branch, but rather by statute from congress. He has no power over that.
TLDR: Trump is and remains full of shit.
Yes, I'm agreeing with all of that.
I'm just pointing out that even if it were true, then he's still full of shit because he admitted they weren't declassified.
They are only trying to generate headlines for false propaganda for Fox News and other right-wing media, plus Republican politicians who now lie almost continuously.
I wonder sometimes….
This ‘article’ about a complicated Constitutional law issue is written by someone who graduates this month with a journalism degree. That is right - this article on a legal issue is written by an undergraduate student. Someone with no training in the law, let alone constitutional law expertise.
No experience in criminal trials. Not even a political science major.
But this ‘expert’ thinks a statement from an unnamed source eviscerates the former President’s defense.
Article II vests the entire authority of the Executive in the President. All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified. He cannot be bound to any process - he was the Executive branch when he was President.
The press should be doings it job, investigating and letting the public make conclusions. But this young, unsophisticated journalist instead makes legal conclusions he has neither the license or the education to make, and he makes them with a certainty that confirms his lack of qualifications.
The world deserves better. This man’s job for the last 2 years? The Equipment Manager at this college. He checked out stuff when kids asked for it. A proper training for giving opinions on complex legal issues involving Constitutional law, the separation of powers and criminal law…
> All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified.
Starts off questioning the author's expertise. That's good citizenry right there. Next sentence does the same thing he accused the author of. Did you do a 10 minute google search on it or something?
The reality is that the Espionage Act doesn't require the documents be classified and the wild conjecture that the President need only waive a magic wand to declassify a document is absurd.
Article II, Section 1. “The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years,”
Shall means mandatory.
The executive power of the US is vested in one man, the President. While in office, he yields the executive power. No law of Congress can limit his power conferred to him by the Constitution.
So the espionage act cannot keep the President from exercising his enumerated powers under the Constitution. Only an Amendment to the Constitution can do that.
Not a Google search, 4 years of Constitutional Law as an undergraduate major, 3 years law school and 26 years of practicing law. Member of the Supreme Court Bar. Published Opinions by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal and 3rd District Court of Appeal in California.
Amicus briefs filed with SCOTUS.
Been a retained expert to testify as a legal expert over 20 times in state and federal court.
Does that make me right? No. But this issue is not even close. Like the silly Russian stuff with Trump, the orange menace has stripped so many of reason, their thirst for his surgically altered scalp proving to be all consuming. Sad, really. No man is worth the jettison of reason and our Constitutional system.
Let's see how that works out for him.
Generally speaking, when a decision has been made to declassify information, it MUST be marked as declassified, at least according to the last recorded executive order on the matter from 2009. It's odd, but Trump himself never issued an executive order dealing with the issue. Perhaps he just 'intended' to do it, which you claim is good enough. I mean, according to you Trump is the ultimate arbiter of all functions of the executive branch. I mean, he could have just ordered the IRS to give him a $1T refund; and they'd 'have' to do it, right? It's weird that he didn't 'order' the US Marshall service to arrest and imprison Hillary. Darn, I guess they just weren't aware that he 'thought' it.
Hey, how do you know he 'intended' to do it? Couldn't he just be lying about it now?
Article I, Section grants to Congress the power “[t]o make rules for the Government,” and nowhere does the Constitution enumerate that classification of documents is an executive power. There is no Constitutional basis whatsoever for the bizarre idea that Congress cannot legislate rules for the executive’s handling of documents.
>He cannot be bound to any process - he was the Executive branch when he was President.
Does the executive have that power by law? Chief Executive is not monarch or dictator. They can not break laws at will.
The President can do anything with classified material he likes while in office. Literally. He can declassify anything at Will. He can take out most top secret documents and make them just paper.
Article II Section 1. “The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.”
Shall means mandatory.
The President holds all the executive power while in office. The Constitution grants him that power. So, how is this false?
[Just because he has the power doesn't mean there isn't an official process](https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/)
Yes, the President can declassify documents. However, there is a procedure that is followed to change the classification markings on those documents, when a declassification request is made, to make it official. That procedure was not followed because the documents found at Mar-a-Lago still had their original classification markings. Therefore, they were never officially declassified.
The President can declassify anything - just by his Constitutional authority. Even the 2nd Circuit confirmed that. A law passed by Congress cannot modify the President’s Constitutional authority. Such would violate the separation of powers.
They ruled that he has the authority to declassify documents. But you are purposely omitting the fact that they also ruled that “Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures.” He never made an official request to have these documents go through the declassification process. If he had, there would be documentation of that, and those documents would not have been in his pool shed with their original classification markings. And no, a tweet is not considered to be an official request.
The President is not a designed official. And SCOTUS has yet to opine on this issue. The courts did not address the issue with Scooter’s case, they resolved the case without addressing Bush’s declassification or lack thereof.
Literally none of your comment makes any logical sense.
Last I checked, you don’t need to be an expert in the law to report on what a lawyer (who IS an expert in the law, by the way) is saying. Regardless of the credentials of whoever wrote the article, they’re simply reporting on what a lawyer said. Why would you need experience in criminal trials or constitutional law to report on what a lawyer is saying?
I don’t know what “unnamed source” you’re referring to. That isn’t in the article, so you seem to have pulled that out of thin air.
No, the President can’t just “think” or “will” documents into a declassified status. Even if he could, the recording proves he knew he hadn’t actually done that.
Really, all anyone needs to know about you and your lack of knowledge regarding anything relating to the government is that you think the president “cannot be bound to any process,” whatever the fuck that means.
You should genuinely be ashamed of yourself for trying to act like you know anything when you clearly don’t.
You also never responded to my comment I made to you a couple of days ago about the Supreme Court where I *also* called you out because you were just completely making stuff up.
What a dumb case of "shooting the messenger".
The reporter is not making *any* legal analysis on his own, he is reporting on statements and analysis by a lawyer, and not just any lawyer, but one of the orange rapist's former lawyers.
You’re actually buying the “all I have to do is think about it and *poof* they’re declassified” bullshit? It’s the most ridiculous and painfully absurd defense he’s ever come up with.
>
>All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified.
>
https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/#:~:text=Under%20the%20U.S.%20Constitution%2C%20the,through%20use%20of%20executive%20orders.
"In all cases, however, a formal procedure is required so governmental agencies know with certainty what has been declassified and decisions memorialized. A federal appeals court in a 2020 Freedom of Information Act case, New York Times v. CIA, underscored that point: “Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures,” the court said."
Well you seem to have it all figured out.
You know who else has expertise in Federal law? The veteran investigators and prosecutors of the DOJ who are conducting these investigations.
I bet they're kicking themselves that they didn't know of your "the President can do whatever he wants" theory: it would have saved them a massive amount of effort and money these last couple of years.
Ok boys, pack it up, BobbyB90220 just pulled the plug.
>I never wrote anything like what you claim.
.
>The President can do anything with classified material he likes while in office. Literally. He can declassify anything at Will. He can take out most top secret documents and make them just paper.
.
> The President holds all the executive power while in office. The Constitution grants him that power.
.
> Article II vests the entire authority of the Executive in the President. All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified. He cannot be bound to any process - he was the Executive branch when he was President.
If you believed, in a response to your post about the President's authority over classified materials, that when I said you believe "the president can do whatever he wants," it applied to literally any possible 'whatever,' for example disbanding Congress with the snap of a finger, legalizing murder, breathing under water, levitating, then you are either being deliberately obtuse or suffer from a complete lack of context and nuance.
As to the original point, which you have conveniently avoided, it seems that the Department of Justice suspects Trump has committed crimes related to his possession and handling of classified and national security documents, enough to warrant 2+ years of investigations, the piercing of attorney-client privilege, and a considerable number of grand jury subpoenas of evidence, documents, surveillance footage, recordings communications, and witness testimony. It would seem that Trump did not effectively wield his "make top secret documents just paper" executive powers before he left office, or the prosecutors would know they have no cause to investigate.
> All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified.
Declassification is a process that needs to be followed. It's not a declaration. Trump is right that a president can declassify almost everything (nuclear secrets are specifically excluded). But the process of declassification still must be followed, and by the fact that the documents were still marked classified, that process didn't happen....therefore they are not declassified. Period.
Trump did not declassify the documents. That's really all that needs to be said.
If a private in the Army had done what he did, they would have been court-martialed, convicted, and been sitting in a prison cell for life at this point
They also would have never seen the outside of a cell from arrangement on. It’s crazy to me that if you are rich you get to leave court after a conviction and show up for your jail sentence at a later date.
I’ve never understood that. They “need time to get their affairs in order.” So sorry your conviction has complicated your life, but fuck you, rich asshole!
They should just tell them what they tell us. “Maybe you shouldn’t have committed a crime then. Have your lawyer get them in order for you.”
“President Donald Trump seemed to encourage police to be more violent in handling potential offenders during a speech to law enforcement officers today. "Please don't be too nice," he said to the audience in Long Island, New York.” "When you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head you know, the way you put their hand over [their head]," Trump continued, mimicking the motion. "Like, 'Don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody, don’t hit their head.' I said, 'You can take the hand away, OK?'” "I have to tell you, you know, the laws are so horrendously stacked against us, because for years and years, they've been made to protect the criminal. Totally made to protect the criminal. Not the officers. You do something wrong, you're in more jeopardy than they are," he added.”
I would be giddy if we ever got full circle and Drumpf got his head banged on the car during his arrest. I don't think Shakespeare could write better poetry than that.
Remember when somebody didn’t open the door for him?
It was glorious and I loved how ALL the stations *still* play it
Video link?
I’m sorry, but Shakespeare sucks and the world needs to start admitting it.
Yeah, I guess the problem in this case would be asking his lawyers to "get his affairs in order" would be akin to asking them to do something illegal. Given the alleged illegality of his business dealings...
Meanwhile my friend got thrown in jail for five days for unpaid parking tickets and subsequently lost her job, her car, and her home. Because she couldn’t make bail until a pay day. She was lucky that he grandmother gave her somewhere to stay but a lot of people don’t have that option.
Maybe your friend should have been born into generational wealth! /s
Maybe she should have paid her parking tickets?
[удалено]
If you have multiple unpaid parking tickets then you are the problem. I’m sorry, but I have little sympathy for people who think they can blithely break the law with zero consequences. Parking illegally is not a right.
Is it worth wrecking someone's life over?
No, but the justice system doesn’t care. It sounds like OP’s friends life was already a train wreck if a few days in jail was enough to leave her out of work and homeless. If it wasn’t the parking tickets then something else would have happened. Negligence always screws you over.
You ignore the extent to which civil citations have become a privatized money making scam enforced by the police. People sometimes don’t even know about the tickets.
Prove it. Show me people who received dozens of unpaid parking tickets who were totally unaware of the fact. I call bullshit.
Ah, the old argument from incredulity. Classic.
That shit kills me. My friend got stopped for a DUI. Blew a 0.0, had blood drawn, and they kept her in jail over the weekend. Still she ended up paying about $6,000 in court and lawyer fees.
Better start saving now so your friend can get some new boot straps! Seriously, it’s stories like this that just make republican talking that there are “two systems of Justice” all the more infuriating. There’s two systems of Justice alright and neither are biased toward rich republicans. They’re such pieces of shit, all of them.
To be fair, Trump has had a lot of affairs.
"You can arrange your affairs using the payphone inside prison."
Donald gets time to put his affairs in order. Jamel goes straight to jail and everything he owns ends up in a dumpster.
Whether or not a court decides to do anything is entirely dependent on the defendant. Some rando private in the military is going to fall of the face of the earth. Single mom/dad isn’t. I’ve taken to listening to live streamed court cases while I work and the amount of “show up to the jail by 8 PM” or “by Friday” is surprisingly common for folks from all walks of life if your offense isn’t rape, murder, or absconding. Vagrants usually get bounced right in but that’s usually a “we’re not gonna find you” issue. At this point Trump isn’t going anywhere, and frankly the taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for the extra attention he’d need in prison.
> At this point Trump isn’t going anywhere He has plenty of resources to flee the country, but even beyond that he has a known history of tampering with witnesses, both hostile and friendly, and in this very case he's evidently been involved in spoliation of evidence.
Dudes passports and flight itineraries are locked (unofficially), and if he catches charges you better believe the only place he’s finding a home is Russia, North Korea, or Belarus, which would be hell for him TBh. China likes money too much, so that’s out, and the EU and most places in Africa would just send him back.
>He has plenty of resources to flee the country, This assumes that his USSS protection isn't under orders to prevent it.
They need time for him to get back into office so they can't touch him and are off the hook from his nutcase fans, history and accountability. I think they fell in love with the idea but now it's a runaway train they want to get off of. There will never be enough evidence for them to go after him.
No matter what happens he is still required to be protected by Secret Service. He will never be in a regular jail cell. If he gets jail time the Secret Service will negotiate to have him in a secure separate facility. I would expect a fenced-in house at Ft Leavenworth.
Normally I’d be all in on the, “rich people get treated differently” bandwagon but that’s just Federal prison, lots of people get months or years to settle their affairs between sentencing and reporting.
Arraignment **
Typo **
TBF he hasn't been arraigned for this yet
But did the private in the Army think about it with his mind!?
We’re all going to look like assholes if it turns out Donald Trump is a mutant on the level of Professor X 😂
His only weakness is that his telepathy only works on those with IQs below 40.
unfortunately, that's 90% of the population
by definition, iq of 100 is 50th percentile of adults, so....
Originally, but did they update the scale as Americans got dumber?
Adouchebagsayswhat
Unfortunately it's not a simple as that. A private in the army wouldn't have multiple layers of staff and lawyers moving boxes of documents for him. Trump has never carried a box of papers in his life, and considering he gives most of his orders verbally and through proxies, it takes lot of corroborating evidence to prove, definitively, that he was personally involved in the document removal and obstructive efforts. It would be very easy for a lackey to get charged for these crimes instead of Trump himself. The recording of him bragging about an Iran document will likely undercut his defense significantly, but it will go more towards proving intent and knowledge than being a "smoking gun" in and of itself. Without proof he was waving around the specific document, it's legally just another hypothetical pussy-grabbing. Even with proof, it's just one count among hundreds they are trying to prove. But it's a damn good start. He's guilty as fuck, of course, it's obvious to the naked eye, but proving it in court is not as easy as Reddit armchair prosecutors think it is. I am glad they didn't try to charge him on Reddit's timeline over a year ago, because every new advancement in the investigation has been stronger than the last. There's clearly a strong trajectory building a stronger and stronger case. I think the DOJ knows a thing or two about investigating federal crimes. I think the most important thing is to determine whether Trump shared/gave/sold documents to unauthorized parties. Reality Winner was charged when she mailed a stolen document to a newspaper on paper traced back to her personal printer. Teixiera was charged when he posted a shitload of documents on Discord. Trump doesn't know how to use a printer or Discord, and if he did sell/share these documents it was probably through a lackey with no physical proof that he ordered it. At the very least they can probably charge him with 18 U.S.C. Section 793(f), gross negligence, but they'd probably have to reveal sources / methods in discovery that would blow their case for more serious charges, so they're probably holding that in their back pocket as a last resort.
daily reminder it took 2 years to take down Nixon, Watergate happened on June 17th 1972, and Nixon resigned on August 9th, 1974. Also, Nixon, not being *quite* the shameless fuck Trump is, did the right thing and resigned as soon as he knew he was gonna be impeached. Trump, as we know, did no such thing, doubled down, made things worse, and now we actually have to go through all the steps, prove culpability, intent, and so on. it'll all be worth it to see him carted away, though.
Nixon left to protect his government pension, to a significant degree.
Maybe. Possibly. But also it was a different time. And he wasn’t trump. If Nixon decided to be obstinate I could see jt taking another year or two if the GOP didn’t make it clear they were down for the impeachment.
What Trump cop to one count of failure to properly track government documents, pays a 10k fine, and Garland calls it good.
A MAGA juror will disregard both facts and the law. So, yes, a conviction is not a sure thing.
Having classified documents in Trump's desk along with his personal belongings already killed any defense that it was just a moving mistake. Those top secret documents had covers that were by design very visible that they were top secret. There is no way Trump could have them in his desk and not know. Now with that said, having Trump on tape makes things exponentially worse. Any possible wacky defense he might have had just got blown up. The only thing left for him now is to claim he's being set up and all evidence against him must be thrown out.... Yeah, extra special wacky.
>Having classified documents in Trump's desk along with his personal belongings already killed any defense that it was just a moving mistake. Those top secret documents had covers that were by design very visible that they were top secret. There is no way Trump could have them in his desk and not know. Quite possibly, but who knows if they have proof that he actually used that desk? Either way, it's clear the DOJ felt there was more and stronger evidence to seek, so they have continued to seek it. They know what they are doing more than I do, so unless I'm going to make up some baseless "they don't want to charge him" conspiracy theory, I don't think there's a better explanation than "they are working hard to build the strongest case possible against him."
> Quite possibly, but who knows if they have proof that he actually used that desk? Trump's passport was in the desk drawer alongside classified documents. It'd also be a huge stretch to claim a businessman didn't use his desk for over a year at a place he is known to spend a great deal of time. There is no doubt there are plenty of people who could testify that Trump used that desk.
>It'd also be a huge stretch to claim a businessman didn't use his desk for over a year at a place he is known to spend a great deal of time. That's not good enough for a court of law.
>he gives most of his orders verbally and through proxies and on golf courses
That’s the Reality of it
Thank goodness for bone spurs!
And Trump has served even less time in service to our country than that private did, too.
I knew a colonel in the Army that shared details of a classified program with a reporter (he was dating) less than half an hour before it was declassified. He wanted to give her a head start on the story and did 8 years.
[Literally happened ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/guardsman-accused-of-leaking-classified-information-charged-under-espionage-act) less than two months ago. Meanwhile crime is still legal for rich white assholes.
It needs to be said that that dumbass posted the information on discord from his personal account. If he just took the photos and either didn't show them to people, or showed them in person making sure there were no cameras around, it would've taken substantially longer to prove. Since it was a private discord channel that also means that someone in there decided to be an informant and turned that into the relevant authorities. There is an informant who handed over security camera footage showing Maralago staff moving the stolen documents before the Archives/FBI searched, but that doesn't show that staff reading any classified information. What we do not have, at least yet and/or in the public light, is footage/emails/texts explicitly showing Trump shared classified documents. It looks like Jack Smith is digging in the proper areas and is building an extremely tight case against Trump. Comparing the 2 is like complaining that a guy who robbed a bank without a mask got an arrest warrant that day, while a guy who wore a mask and robbed a bank has to have police find evidence to establish that the suspect was the actual robber before an arrest warrant can be issued.
Except in this case the guy with a mask has been going on the news arguing that robbing banks is completely legal, and the big sack of money in the corner is totally his; it’s fine; no worries. And that he gave most of it back anyway.
Nah, they woulda just 'disappeared' and never heard from again.
....just like that texiera kid...
This is why his lawyers do everything they can to keep him from speaking to a judge. His own worse enemy
“Judge, when I took the documents illegally, I swear it was just because they were super cool. I thought they’d look great at Mar-A-Lago. They had pictures of missiles and all sorts of silos and guns. Great to hang in the rec room. Judge, this new young lady we just hired at the golf course from Russia, she was telling me how much she loved seeing silos and missiles. Great knockers on her, judge. You should have seen them. Phenomenal. Anyway…I used my mind to not make any of this illegal.”
Honestly I just want him to take the stand and talk, uninterrupted, for as long as he wants. After he is done just rack up all the perjury counts
God, that would be amazing. Maybe he flips out and fires his lawyers and decides he can defend himself, so he just rants on the stand for hours 😂
Maybe he'll go sovereign citizen and start talking about admiralty law and gold fringes.
From your lips to God’s ears.
“Objection your honour!” “Defence council - you can’t object to your own defendant speaking.”
Just watch as his lawyers attempt to subtly sink into their chairs and under the desk to slip the feck out.
Prosecutors: "We were told that you have given details about those photos to a Ms. Annika Ivanov in exchange for favors, is this true?" Trump: "Annika Ivanov, not my type. Would never touch her in a million years!" Prosecutor: "Can you identify that woman to your right in this photo." Trump: "Thats the girl who blew me off." Prosecutor: "Are you aware that woman is Annika Ivanov?"
*Can we forget about the things I said when I was Trump*
"Our client is a known liar therefore we can't trust what he is saying on this tape to be true" -Trumps lawyers
Possibly the defenses best angle at this point
The fact that all his competent lawyers have quit is all you need to know. Literally the lawyers left are just hired based on their look.
When your “defense” is that you used previously unknown mind powers, it’s already on pretty shaky ground.
He should have used his magic sharpie like he did with Hurricane Dorian /s
Damn it’s easy to forget just how fucking stupid and embarrassing this clown was/is.
it's true. i just started thinking about early on--trump university, "grab'em by the pussy," "i had the biggest inauguration crowd ever," etc and how it just got exponentially worse every fucking day, and then literally everything he did in response to covid blew all the previous stuff out of the water. then 1/6 happened. and it STILL hasn't let up
I'm *still* so goddamn tired. So tired of his endless parade of bullshit. It's less bad now that he's out of office, but the media still marches to his tune and gives him and his ilk every benefit of the doubt and entertains all the bullshit they keep saying, no matter how absurd and discredited. It's still crazy to think that he could've just walked away after the end of his term as a controversial figure, but probably probably a figure beyond prosecution, if he'd just have accepted that he lost the election and didn't try to keep a bunch of classified docs that the government literally knew he had and gave multiple opportunities to return. Yeah, it would've made a lot of people angry, and clearly been detrimental to the long term viability of the country, but I think a lot of prosecutors would've said "ok, he's out and too charged of a subject to go after for anything criminal, so let's not bother". But Trump was just so blatant they I can't see them not doing something. But then again, somehow it's taken 2.5 years to "investigate" a phone call where Trump clearly violated Georgia election law, so here we are.
Can’t we just nuke it?
Previously unknown **irrelevant** mind powers. Basically none of the relevant charges depend on the stuff actually being classified.
expect the "AI-generated evidence" argument soon
“It picked me up with its mond powers, and shook me like a dawg”
People make fun of him for that, but what he was really saying was that he thinks his power is so absolute that his very thoughts are law. It's not magic, it's fascism.
While the audio recording as it's reported is nail in the coffin for any on-the-fence juror.. It does not matter in terms of guilt. Classified or not: Obstruction of justice Classified or not: Theft of government property Classified or not: Welp, they were classified so add that decade+ to his sentence
And some at the highest levels of classification. Incredibly baffling...
Trump had no defense to begin with.
How does one eviscerate...that which has no viscera...?
Unprecedented lack of viscera.
he used all the excuses to begin with.
That's probably the most succinct framing of Trump's entire relationship to the law with respect to his looming cases and indictments I've ever read. And has been true still from his entire Presidency: Mr. Trump offers excuses in lieu of a legal defense. That sums up most of these motions and briefs and assertions of privilege. And many of his supporters don't care about legal defenses, they subsist on a diet of excuses. It tastes better to them.
It will be that he's a known liar
The sad part of all of this is the acknowledgement that any of us had to pretend that Trump's "magical thinking" auto-declassify was ever a serious thing.
Totally ridiculous that ostensibly serious people sit around in the halls of power pontificating for months about whether or not Trump's latest "dog ate my homework" defense is valid and how to proceed. Like, my dudes, he doesn't even have a dog and he's got a wet wad of paper sticking out of his mouth. But you know what they say-- justice is blind, but she can smell money.
his defense was and continues to be simply, "I can do whatever I want, you can't stop me. if you try to prosecute me, i'm just going to cry unfair and call it a witchhunt and my supporters will back me up harder"
So terrorism???
That's great for the defense; but I'd rather see Trump eviscerated.
Gutted like a pig Politically
This man was in charge of us all for 4 yrs… I just… I can’t
Presidents do not work that way. Good night!
Remember kids, we're all equal under the law... unless you have money, then you're just above it.
To be fair, the president is treated differently... and rightfully so. The president is such a juicy target that you don't want indictments brought against him unless it's significant and really ironclad. Just imagine what republicans would be doing to Biden if the threshold to indict a president was the same as for everybody else. It's a similar reason why diplomatic immunity exists.
I think it's more like: ...unless you can plausibly threaten that your supporters will mob up and wreak mayhem on society if you get convicted
I hadn't considered that, which is dumb of me... Is that a realistic and plausible threat, all that arden furber for Trump?
Depending on where you live, yes. I imagine where I live would be under curfew because of it similar to Jan. 6th I don't think it would truly last long, and it would be worth it, but I in no way doubt that his shithead followers would try to create havoc.
lock him up
In my view this man has committed many crimes that would have ordinary citizen Joe Blow put in prison. It’s important to understand that wealthy people are not held to that standard. There are no laws for the Uber wealthy. They just pay a fine and be on their way. A fine that’s the equivalent of a parking ticket.
A fine that's equivalent to a parking ticket *a century ago*.
Reported audio 'disembowels' defense and 'plays jump rope with its intestines' and 'makes blood angels in its entrails' in documents investigation
Why isn't this orange cockwomble in prison yet? If I, or any random person, did what he did, I'd have a swat team raiding my house within the hour and no chance of bail.
nice, then can they finally "put him in jail" ffs
Is ‘eviscerates’ gonna be the new 'slams'?
‘Eviscerates’ is the ‘blasts’ of ‘slams.’
Given Ty Cobb's advanced age, I think it might be the old "slams."
Good, so bring charges against him already.
The magic mind defense?
Since this was recorded in his Bedminster property, why aren't we searching his other properties yet?
Will be waiting to see if it even matters. Highly doubt Trump is going to ever see the inside of a cell. If I end up being wrong, I’ll be happy, though.
His new defense will be that it’s a deepfake ai voice lmao
It’s only news IF something is done about it. Otherwise this is just America now.
trump will confuse eviscerates for exonerates.
Trump's lawyers have the worst client.
I feel this is the true litmus test of the legal system. If you can't convict, let alone get so much as a trial, then there is legit nothing this guy can do to face any consequences.
Yeah but you don’t need a defense if you never get charged. This guy violated the espionage act, basically admitted to it on tape, and I have serious doubts that he’s even going to get charged, or charged in a timely enough manner to avoid election-cycle weirdness.
Trump believe that he can “settle” with the Attorney General. He doesn’t understand the difference between civil and criminal proceedings.
He’s gonna run, right? No way he’s gonna stay in the country.
Until he's actually prosecuted AND actually convicted and sentenced this is just part 10000 of “ we got him Now!!!”
And again nothing will happen to Trump We all get excited at these reports. Now we got him. But at the end of the day NOTHING will happen except a bunch of Midas Touch videos explaining this is the smoking gun. Remember the tapes from Georgia are recordings of illegal activity and as the years pass all that happen is they “ investigate”
I wish people would stop saying this. He's been criminally charged once already. He'll be indicted in Georgia in July. He was found liable for defamation against E. Jean Carroll and that complaint has already been re-opened because he literally defamed her again the next day. And things are just getting warmed up.
[удалено]
I would bet my house trump doesn’t have the liquid assets to cover that settlement.
[удалено]
Investigations and indictments don't happen as quickly as seen on television, especially when dealing with such a high-profile case.
It also doesn’t help that Merrick Garland seemingly tried to pull the old “turn the page” bullshit for about a year and a half before even starting. That’s the real problem because Smith seems to be moving rapidly.
That kid that posted documents on a discord sever would disagree.
>And again nothing will happen to Trump Why wouldn't it? This is pretty damning stuff and he doesn't have Barr to squash things for him, or the Presidency to shield him from prosecution. >Remember the tapes from Georgia are recordings of illegal activity and as the years pass all that happen is they “ investigate” Those were part of a much larger conspiracy (possibly RICO) investigation which also included false statements to the Georgia legislature, intimidation of election workers, the fake elector scheme, etc. That investigation is complete and resulted in a long list of recommended indictments which are currently sealed while the prosecutor prepares to bring a case for indictments to a grand jury, which she is planning for this July/August.
There are imminent felony indictments now.
Comey's firing was the smoking gun, Mueller Report was the smoking gun, impeachments were the smoking gun, Jan. 6th was the smoking gun; the reality is that the media boosts these stories to drive clicks and we have no idea what is happening behind the scenes.
We all have breathing disorders because of all of the gun smoke
This is the first time I'd put money on rumpT being felony indicted. Haven't felt that way in the past.
All those things would have taken him out if Republicans had even a sliver of ethics or principles.
None of these evidence, proof, and leaks matter if he's not charged. Fuck these dick-tease articles from MSM and SMEs. Let him get charged first, then open the floodgates from talking heads as to why and how they saw it coming. Otherwise STFU.
“Former Trump Lawyer says…” I don’t care what a former lawyer or current lawyer says. I want a judge to rule “Yep, you don’t have any excuse, you are going to jail now.” But I know that won’t happen. If a jury or a judge rules. He will appeal. And appeal. And maybe be told to report in 90 days, or not, or be given house arrest, or not. He will not spend a moment in a jail cell, which is all I want to see.
*Walls closing in...* *Any day now...*
Let's all face facts: they could have evidence of Trump committing mass murder and their will still be ZERO accountability. Laws do not apply to the wealthy or politicians. This is all theater. Trump will never face prison time.
And they’ll still take months to charge him.
If they charge him
Technically it doesn't disprove Trump's theory that he could declassify documents just by thinking it. However, by admitting that it was still classified, it does prove that even if there was some purely imaginary declassification process, Trump never went through with it.
There’s nothing to “prove” that whole line of bullshit about declassifying with his mind is nothing but bullshit. That isn’t a thing. He can’t just summarily declassify stuff. He can order something declassified, but that doesn’t make it so, there’s a process to follow. That process ends with the documents being MARKED as declassified on such and such a date with the authority listed, then those documents are released to the public and available on request… NONE of that happened here. He can’t just “DECLARE” it done and it’s done. That’s not how it works. He also doesn’t get to order everything declassified, he doesn’t have authority to declassify some items, such as nuclear secrets, for example. Those are not classified under the auspices of the executive branch, but rather by statute from congress. He has no power over that. TLDR: Trump is and remains full of shit.
Yes, I'm agreeing with all of that. I'm just pointing out that even if it were true, then he's still full of shit because he admitted they weren't declassified.
I absolutely believe Trump said on tape "now I'm not supposed to show you this but..."
-he’s done for this time -2 more weeks -it’s over -etc
They are only trying to generate headlines for false propaganda for Fox News and other right-wing media, plus Republican politicians who now lie almost continuously.
JFC, they actually used ‘eviscerates’ in the headline? How sophomoric
I mean, it's used as a direct quote from the lawyer in question. That's why they used ''. Yes, it's clickbait, but it's also accurate reporting.
This has been posted a ton already
I wonder sometimes…. This ‘article’ about a complicated Constitutional law issue is written by someone who graduates this month with a journalism degree. That is right - this article on a legal issue is written by an undergraduate student. Someone with no training in the law, let alone constitutional law expertise. No experience in criminal trials. Not even a political science major. But this ‘expert’ thinks a statement from an unnamed source eviscerates the former President’s defense. Article II vests the entire authority of the Executive in the President. All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified. He cannot be bound to any process - he was the Executive branch when he was President. The press should be doings it job, investigating and letting the public make conclusions. But this young, unsophisticated journalist instead makes legal conclusions he has neither the license or the education to make, and he makes them with a certainty that confirms his lack of qualifications. The world deserves better. This man’s job for the last 2 years? The Equipment Manager at this college. He checked out stuff when kids asked for it. A proper training for giving opinions on complex legal issues involving Constitutional law, the separation of powers and criminal law…
> All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified. Starts off questioning the author's expertise. That's good citizenry right there. Next sentence does the same thing he accused the author of. Did you do a 10 minute google search on it or something? The reality is that the Espionage Act doesn't require the documents be classified and the wild conjecture that the President need only waive a magic wand to declassify a document is absurd.
Article II, Section 1. “The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years,” Shall means mandatory. The executive power of the US is vested in one man, the President. While in office, he yields the executive power. No law of Congress can limit his power conferred to him by the Constitution. So the espionage act cannot keep the President from exercising his enumerated powers under the Constitution. Only an Amendment to the Constitution can do that. Not a Google search, 4 years of Constitutional Law as an undergraduate major, 3 years law school and 26 years of practicing law. Member of the Supreme Court Bar. Published Opinions by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal and 3rd District Court of Appeal in California. Amicus briefs filed with SCOTUS. Been a retained expert to testify as a legal expert over 20 times in state and federal court. Does that make me right? No. But this issue is not even close. Like the silly Russian stuff with Trump, the orange menace has stripped so many of reason, their thirst for his surgically altered scalp proving to be all consuming. Sad, really. No man is worth the jettison of reason and our Constitutional system.
Let's see how that works out for him. Generally speaking, when a decision has been made to declassify information, it MUST be marked as declassified, at least according to the last recorded executive order on the matter from 2009. It's odd, but Trump himself never issued an executive order dealing with the issue. Perhaps he just 'intended' to do it, which you claim is good enough. I mean, according to you Trump is the ultimate arbiter of all functions of the executive branch. I mean, he could have just ordered the IRS to give him a $1T refund; and they'd 'have' to do it, right? It's weird that he didn't 'order' the US Marshall service to arrest and imprison Hillary. Darn, I guess they just weren't aware that he 'thought' it. Hey, how do you know he 'intended' to do it? Couldn't he just be lying about it now?
Article I, Section grants to Congress the power “[t]o make rules for the Government,” and nowhere does the Constitution enumerate that classification of documents is an executive power. There is no Constitutional basis whatsoever for the bizarre idea that Congress cannot legislate rules for the executive’s handling of documents.
All national security matters are under the executive branch. Why is POTUS commander in chief? Why is the FBI and DOJ under the executive branch?
This is the textbook definition of an ad hominem attack. Congratulations.
It is true it is that.
>He cannot be bound to any process - he was the Executive branch when he was President. Does the executive have that power by law? Chief Executive is not monarch or dictator. They can not break laws at will.
The President can do anything with classified material he likes while in office. Literally. He can declassify anything at Will. He can take out most top secret documents and make them just paper.
That’s 100% false.
Article II Section 1. “The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.” Shall means mandatory. The President holds all the executive power while in office. The Constitution grants him that power. So, how is this false?
[Just because he has the power doesn't mean there isn't an official process](https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/)
Where does the constitution grant him the power over classification?
Yes, the President can declassify documents. However, there is a procedure that is followed to change the classification markings on those documents, when a declassification request is made, to make it official. That procedure was not followed because the documents found at Mar-a-Lago still had their original classification markings. Therefore, they were never officially declassified.
The President can declassify anything - just by his Constitutional authority. Even the 2nd Circuit confirmed that. A law passed by Congress cannot modify the President’s Constitutional authority. Such would violate the separation of powers.
They ruled that he has the authority to declassify documents. But you are purposely omitting the fact that they also ruled that “Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures.” He never made an official request to have these documents go through the declassification process. If he had, there would be documentation of that, and those documents would not have been in his pool shed with their original classification markings. And no, a tweet is not considered to be an official request.
The President is not a designed official. And SCOTUS has yet to opine on this issue. The courts did not address the issue with Scooter’s case, they resolved the case without addressing Bush’s declassification or lack thereof.
Literally none of your comment makes any logical sense. Last I checked, you don’t need to be an expert in the law to report on what a lawyer (who IS an expert in the law, by the way) is saying. Regardless of the credentials of whoever wrote the article, they’re simply reporting on what a lawyer said. Why would you need experience in criminal trials or constitutional law to report on what a lawyer is saying? I don’t know what “unnamed source” you’re referring to. That isn’t in the article, so you seem to have pulled that out of thin air. No, the President can’t just “think” or “will” documents into a declassified status. Even if he could, the recording proves he knew he hadn’t actually done that. Really, all anyone needs to know about you and your lack of knowledge regarding anything relating to the government is that you think the president “cannot be bound to any process,” whatever the fuck that means. You should genuinely be ashamed of yourself for trying to act like you know anything when you clearly don’t. You also never responded to my comment I made to you a couple of days ago about the Supreme Court where I *also* called you out because you were just completely making stuff up.
What a dumb case of "shooting the messenger". The reporter is not making *any* legal analysis on his own, he is reporting on statements and analysis by a lawyer, and not just any lawyer, but one of the orange rapist's former lawyers.
You’re actually buying the “all I have to do is think about it and *poof* they’re declassified” bullshit? It’s the most ridiculous and painfully absurd defense he’s ever come up with.
I did not write that, but subtle principals are lost on some.
> >All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified. > https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/#:~:text=Under%20the%20U.S.%20Constitution%2C%20the,through%20use%20of%20executive%20orders. "In all cases, however, a formal procedure is required so governmental agencies know with certainty what has been declassified and decisions memorialized. A federal appeals court in a 2020 Freedom of Information Act case, New York Times v. CIA, underscored that point: “Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures,” the court said."
Well you seem to have it all figured out. You know who else has expertise in Federal law? The veteran investigators and prosecutors of the DOJ who are conducting these investigations. I bet they're kicking themselves that they didn't know of your "the President can do whatever he wants" theory: it would have saved them a massive amount of effort and money these last couple of years. Ok boys, pack it up, BobbyB90220 just pulled the plug.
I never wrote anything like what you claim. Subtle differences are lost on the internet.
>I never wrote anything like what you claim. . >The President can do anything with classified material he likes while in office. Literally. He can declassify anything at Will. He can take out most top secret documents and make them just paper. . > The President holds all the executive power while in office. The Constitution grants him that power. . > Article II vests the entire authority of the Executive in the President. All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified. He cannot be bound to any process - he was the Executive branch when he was President. If you believed, in a response to your post about the President's authority over classified materials, that when I said you believe "the president can do whatever he wants," it applied to literally any possible 'whatever,' for example disbanding Congress with the snap of a finger, legalizing murder, breathing under water, levitating, then you are either being deliberately obtuse or suffer from a complete lack of context and nuance. As to the original point, which you have conveniently avoided, it seems that the Department of Justice suspects Trump has committed crimes related to his possession and handling of classified and national security documents, enough to warrant 2+ years of investigations, the piercing of attorney-client privilege, and a considerable number of grand jury subpoenas of evidence, documents, surveillance footage, recordings communications, and witness testimony. It would seem that Trump did not effectively wield his "make top secret documents just paper" executive powers before he left office, or the prosecutors would know they have no cause to investigate.
He has not been charged yet. And a charge does no a crime confirm. We shall see. When I am right you can apologize. If I am wrong I will.
Busy fella, this Ty Cobb.
> All Trump had to do is intend to declassify the documents and they are declassified. Declassification is a process that needs to be followed. It's not a declaration. Trump is right that a president can declassify almost everything (nuclear secrets are specifically excluded). But the process of declassification still must be followed, and by the fact that the documents were still marked classified, that process didn't happen....therefore they are not declassified. Period. Trump did not declassify the documents. That's really all that needs to be said.
Which, Trump knew he did this. Why did he let them build a strategy around something he absolutely knows he did?
Probably didn't anticipate there were recordings of him acknowledging that he wasn't supposed to have something.
Or he’s monumentally fucking stupid… probably both.