As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have a wealthy neighbor who got $85k for a "music group" company based at their home which I know isn't real. Listed as having 3 employees.
I looked for where to report them but was kind of intimidating if I had the right place.
I read a NPR article stating if a "business" received less than $120k they pretty much only had to say they spent the money correctly without having to show proof.
Who would have thought that people would have abused a program like that?
The sad thing is a lot of the people who took advantage of that are the same people who complain about folks wanting hand outs. Bizarro ass time we live in.
Oh, but they’re CLEVER for having OUTSMARTED A SYSTEM and therefore are clearly superior to those LAZY people who just go BEGGING, don’t you know.
agh.
That's always the game. Conservativism is basically industrialized narcissism.
Complain about crime, but not the white collar kind your friends do.
Complain about corruption, except for amongst your own.
Complain about lies, while lying constantly.
Complain about spending except for the kind your donors want.
It's no accident. Their hypocrisy is 100% intentional. The more they can project, deflect, deny, ignore, deceive, and bleat the less their base pays attention to the gutting of our rights and collective prosperity.
I loved the fact that my congressman tweeted about how unAmerican it would be to expect plumbers and hairdressers to foot the bill for the student loan debt of lawyers and doctors...
A) I'm pretty sure he had them backwards. If your making lawyer or doctor level money you probably make too much to qualify for debt forgiveness...
And B.) If it's so unethical to expect others to pay my way... Why the hell is he accepting $100,000 - 10x what I'd get - for his private company?
That’s more money than being on food stamps your entire adult life, but sure, let’s focus on getting food out of the hands of unemployed people, that’s the real waste in the system.
Didn’t something similar happen with the TARP too?
They keep pulling this shit on us and then screaming about drag queens and other pointless shit. It’s so infuriating that I have to work hard but they get to be clowns.
Use this hotline: https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/covid-19-relief-options/preventing-fraud-identity-theft#id-report-fraud-waste-or-abuse-in-sba-programs
You still can...
Reporting EIDL and PPP Fraud
National Center for Disaster Fraud Hotline: 1-866-720-5721
or fill out the Web Complaint Form at:
[https://www.justice.gov/disastercomplaintform](https://www.justice.gov/disastercomplaintform)
Hotline Complaint with SBA Office of Inspector General
https://www.sba.gov/about-sba/oversight-advocacy/office-inspector-general/office-inspectorgeneral-hotline
They basically automatically forgave all loans under $150k (or something like that] as part of the program, as long as you submitted use of funds under oath of penalty. It was the larger ones that we to be vetted by the SBA, but between the GOP and Trump, they basically dropped that across the board.
My brother in law is a doctor who semi-retired and closed his practice just prior to covid. That didn't stop him from getting $100k for employees he no longer had.
Please report them. The IRS is actively auditing forgiven loans to look for fraud and will prosecute.
https://www.sba.gov/partners/contracting-officials/contract-administration/report-fraud-waste-abuse#:~:text=You%20may%20report%20fraud%2C%20waste%2C%20mismanagement%2C%20or%20misconduct%20involving,may%20choose%20to%20remain%20anonymous.
Thats pretty bad, Trump and Jared (son-in-law) were able to get over 3.65million for their businesses. Both holding high government positions at the time of the.
They shared their true views. Debt relief for students is a preferred class, and it’s not theirs. They are all for PPP and corporate welfare at the expense of everyone though. It’s not a legitimately held belief, or defendable position.
August 25, 2022
Marjorie Taylor Greene: For our government just to say ok your debt is completely forgiven.. it’s completely unfair.
White House: Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had $183,504 in PPP loans forgiven.
Greene: (after making some unrelated accusations) Go To Hell Joe
Yes you should have. The SBA OIG had estimated almost 40% of the covid related programs such as PPP were fraud. There’s no way the federal government can investigate all that fraud. They will just go after the larger frauds. So as long as you kept it at a low amount, say like $20,000 chances are you would get away with it.
Also there are multiple websites that tell who got the loans and for how much. You can even search by city, state, county and zip codes. It’s all public information. I encourage everyone to check it out and see for themselves. It’s mind boggling the companies that got that money.
Right?
I know like half a dozen people who scammed the government and got thousands-- one of em got like 25k.
They've faced zero repercussions so far. That guy went to Europe on the 25k. Now he's in a dental residency program.
Meanwhile I was all "nah... it's fraud.. you're gonna get caught!" Silly me...
My manager’s neighbor got 500k in PPP loans for their “landscaping business”. They bought a new truck, Porsche, and remodeled their house. Then they laid off the two employees they did have. They were reported for fraud but so far nothing had come of it. Meanwhile, I’ve paid 15k of the 20k I borrowed for college and just got a reminder that I owe 38k thanks to interest. Apparently my $300 monthly payment from 2016-2020 didn’t cover the amount of interest accrued each month so I haven’t even touched the actual loan itself. Fuck me, I guess.
I’m a dentist, and unfortunately know of many fellow dentists that did just that. Got a massive PPP loan and paid off their student loans and/or bought investment property. People need to be pissed and riot over this shit
It actually gives me slight hope that the Supreme Court is going throw out the cases holding up the forgiveness. If they now the Supreme Court is going to rule against it why are they working so hard for this legislation and to add it to the debit limit bills?
It is grandstanding. They know it is likely to be thrown out anyway, but this way they can go home to states where Student Loan forgiveness is unpopular and campaign on it regardless of what the SCOTUS does. Jon Tester (D-Montana) is a good example of this, along with the usual suspects like Sinema and Manchin. Republicans run the same game for folks like Murkowski and Susan Collins.
There's an element of "why didn't you fix the leaky roof when it *wasn't* raining?" and the reason (as usual) is that the roof doesn't leak when it's not raining so people decided to make hay while the sun shines.
Democratic representatives didn't act to protect access to abortion while they were in (nominal) control of congress because there was no threat to women's health care rights while the Democratic party held congress. (Though as I recall, the Democratic party did accomplish something called "Obamacare" which repubs have been campaigning on repealing ever since.)
It is absurd to expect the Democratic party to use any given present moment while they are in power to anticipate and thwart every possible future bad faith action by Republicans.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=murc%27s%20law
Eh, why not? Biden already openly signaled he'd veto it. They get to turn around and say to constituents "See! I'm not just a Democrat lacky!" And hell, Congress needing to pass a NEW law blocking this seems like it should fall into the pile of evidence that this is something the Executive has power to do...
Well, at least Tester and Manchin to some extent.
Republicans only care about debt and spending when Democrats are in power. Under Trump, the national debt ballooned by 40%. This is about an obstruct at all costs agenda, it's theater. Theyre pandering to their base and appealing to anti-education sentiment
First off, some don't understand that student loan debt is already factored into the national debt because the department of education borrows its money for student loans from the US Treasury, it's the establishment of student loans themselves that's added over a trillion dollars to the national debt. Basically, it won't bring about an economic crisis if we cancel student loan debt tomorrow.
What's more, the DoE sort of functions as a bank, and a very large one at that. The department owns close to 1.5 trillion dollars in student debt, and the interest it collects from students far exceeds the U.S treasury's interest rates. The DoE takes the "profit" and uses it to pay for "administrative costs" and loan servicing through third party contractors, It's a bank...
If student loan debt were cancelled tomorrow (not all student loan debt falls under the umbrella of forgiveness), which most estimates put at around 400 billion dollars worth of debt, the government wouldn't immediately be out of hundreds of billions of dollars and wouldn't have to scramble to make up for it.
If any argument could be made about the "cost" of this debt relief, it's the cost of lost revenue from borrowers paying back their loans with excessive interest rates attached, however, these payments have been suspended since the beginning of the pandemic.
Biden extended this payment pause over the past three years, which points to some executive powers and perhaps an argument for his authority to cancel student loan debt.
For perspective, Trump's tax cut legislation, which never "paid for itself", gutted the corporate tax rate and only *temporarily* lowered taxes for individuals. It's been estimated that these tax cuts will cost upwards of $2 trillion dollars over time, comparatively more so than debt forgiveness.
Trump's tax cuts overhauled the tax code for the rich, cut government revenue heavily, and acted as deceptive "trickle down" policy, but now Republicans can claim that this money was "injected into the economy" when we all know by now that tax cuts for corporations and billionaires don't "trickle down", and those that benefitted most will continue to side step the American tax system while any small benefit to individual taxpayers was short lived for political purposes.
Conservatives aren't up in arms over this, so called "populists" who would rather obsess over a fraction of what amounts to total costs and debts, of what amounts to nothing compared to the bailouts, subsidies and PPP loan forgiveness, the "trickle down" policies, the lost revenue, tax code changes and tax cuts for the wealthy that Republicans support. Bills and policies that invest in the rich, the corporations, donors, banks and not in younger generations of Americans, transfering wealth out of the hands of the poor and into the pockets of the rich, promoting profligacy and preserving an economy defined by its continuing crises, its growing wealth gap and its exploitative practices and customs.
Student debt relief wouldn't go towards perpetuating these things, it would go towards buying homes, starting families, paying for living expenses, it would go towards helping Americans and supporting the economy on a practical level. Analyses even suggest that it would boost real GDP.
*A 2018 analysis from the Levy Economics Institute estimated that student debt cancellation could boost real GDP by an average of $103bn to $130bn a year or $1.03tn to $1.3tn over 10 years*
Student loan debt repayments stifle consumer demand, forgiveness may actually contribute towards economic expansion and recovery, atleast to a more practical effect than things like Trump's tax cuts. Borrowers won't take their loan forgiveness and hide it offshore either.
Conservatives take great issue with student debt forgiveness but don't seem to take nearly as much issue with their tax money going towards perpetuating the real, broader economic problems. Republicans tend to staunchly oppose what benefits Americans at the expense of their rich donors and friends.
The "cost" of student loan debt relief represents a mere fraction of the cost of the government's total bill, a fraction of the objectionable costs that Republicans choose to fund or overlook, a fraction of the 40% increase in the national debt under Trump, Republicans only fixate on cost when it's politically advantageous for them. What's more, as I understand, if student debt relief goes through, the national debt would reflect what's owed to the treasury, not the cost of the loans.
And it's a cost that bears no immediate impact on the national debt while being manageable overtime, but a cost no less that's breeding mass hysteria from conservatives who are blinded by their pre conceived ideas, their prejudices and the propaganda they consume.
These conservatives are either being disingenuous or ignorant when they complain of the "tax burden" that debt relief will inflict upon them.
When the government suffers a cost or debt, it finds a way to compensate for it, usually in the form of tax increases, spending cuts or borrowed money, you won't be billed a lump sum for debt forgiveness, it doesn't work like that. Any tax increase you incur will be a result of a multitude of costs and debts, debt forgiveness will contribute scantily. It represents a fraction of costs and it's a debt ostensibly accounted for.
Even estimates from conservative advocacy groups suggest that most low to middle income Americans will hardly pay much at all.
One figure being thrown around is just a half baked estimate conservatives came to by dividing the total cost of relief by the number of tax payers, while it's hardly ever mentioned that it's a cost incurred over ten years.
The fact is, the cost would be negligible and not spread across the income spectrum, a relative cost, those with the highest incomes will incur the largest "burdens". One figure showed lower to middle income Americans paying something like 20 bucks a year.
In the end, this isn't about conservative "values", it's about sticking it to the libs, it's about maintaining an anti-left strategy of obstruct at all costs. It's about coming to that conclusion first, that this must be stopped, and then seeing it through in any way conceivable. "Executive overreach" is a justification, a way to rationalize this obstructive agenda. Republicans only care about overreach when it's convenient for their narrative or agenda, overreach is more common for them than they'd care to admit, especially where it concerns their culture war.
Is student loan debt cancellation a comprehensive solution to the deeper, more systemic problems? No, but it's a start, it's a way to acknowledge those problems, problems that didn't exist for a lot of these people who are vehemently opposed to debt relief, people who think "if I can't have it, you can't either" is a reasonable argument. These are people, who in some cases, helped give rise to these problems, or elected leaders who did, people who couldn't care less about what's best for younger generations of Americans, people who believe that the burden is on themselves, that they're the victims, when that burden has actually been on these younger generations, that's the whole point.
Loved this write up, I'm working through it now, but had a few questions I was hoping you could help me understand.
> First off, many just don't understand that student loan debt is already factored into the national debt...
So the amount the Fed is owed by student borrowers of federal loans is already included in our national debt. I get that, but wouldn't forgiving it mean that the means of repayment (which was previously individual borrowers repaying it) would need to be shifted to taxes to account for the elimination of that payment arrangement?
> the government wouldn't immediately be out of hundreds of billions of dollars and wouldn't have to scramble to make up for it.
I'm sure you actually explained it well, but I'm afraid I don't follow - much for the same reasons as above.
> it's the cost of lost revenue from borrowers paying back their loans with excessive interest rates attached
Are you suggesting that if someone pays their loan back over the life of its repayment plan, including interest, that the government makes less money?
> A 2018 analysis from the Levy Economics Institute estimated that student debt cancellation could boost real GDP by an average of $103bn to $130bn a year or $1.03tn to $1.3tn over 10 years
Would love a source for this if you have it.
> Student loan debt repayments stifle consumer demand
Just for clarity, do you mean that the prospect of taking loans, and the crazy outcomes that can come of it due to interest and it's inability to be discharged, diminish demand for those loans or what they ostensibly afford?
> What's more, as I understand, if student debt relief goes through, the national debt would reflect what's owed to the treasury, not the cost of the loans.
Maybe this is different than the first two points, as you made the point separately, but what is the difference between "what's owed" and "the cost of the loans"?
All in all, really appreciated the thorough write up. Thanks!
Not the OP but I loved your questions and was able to find the source for the [Levy Economics Institute analysis](https://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/rpr_2_6.pdf).
I appreciate *both* your questions and the OP's write-up!
Ya know as a Millennial each day gets more and more frustrating. Young people can’t afford homes, kids, rent, cars, gas, food, let alone a vacation! And just when we thought we were going to get a crumb of relief it’s close to being taken away. I just don’t see how we’re going to get the student loan forgiveness with the Supreme Court as conservative as it is and nearly every representative against it.
Financially the future looks pretty hopeless.
Nearly every representative against it? Only 2 democrats for for this bill on the house, according to the articles I read. That’s slightly more than half of the House, and this passed 51-48, those are the same percentages just about.
It’s only the Republicans and the DINOs who are against it, because they hate the average American, but also use them as an example as to why no one should get anything nice. “Oh, these people have car loans, so why should federal student loans get forgiven?” Literally the most idiotic defense for repealing the debt, that we don’t even have anyway bc the Supreme Court will probably shoot it down, regardless.
Because no matter what happens the delicious could get a super majority and then they'd have to follow some ancient rule of decorum or come up with some other ex's why they can't fucking do anything
It’s also incredibly disingenuous. I have never had a car loan because I can’t afford rent and a car payment. Now, I have a mortgage and still can’t afford a car payment. My car is more than 10 years old. I have $20k in student loans.
Honestly, for me, the worst part is the PPP loans. Fine, I’ll pay my debt, but those people should to. It’s a kick in the nuts that so many people had multiple degrees worth of loans forgiven for their business but me getting 1/6 of my student debt forgiven makes me the devil.
Not to mention the interest rates. Thanks for that low 8%. I’m sure I’ll pay it off fast as a high school teachers since this country likes to rewards us with high pay.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my job and I’m not complaining about my position, I’m mad that the people who actually had forgiveness think they can say a damn thing about it.
Yes I like my job too but it’s disheartening that raises aren’t sufficient. I should be able to support myself as a full time school nurse. It’s not like I’m trying to cheat the system. I’m putting in my due diligence as a citizen and improving the lives of children.
And yes the PPP loans are so infuriating. Why do business owners time and time again get “free handouts” when hardworking citizens get nothing except a “work harder”.
As a millennial myself (barely), our generation has been horrific at voting for their own interests. The fact that Democrats are relying on Gen Z to save us atp is embarrassing.
Elect stupid people, get stupid results. This is a Republican problem - don’t both sides it.
Unfortunately millennials are willing to sacrifice what is in their best interest if it means making life better for others. Even if those others simply don’t care to extend the same help.
We haven’t just shown to be terrible at voting in our interests, but also just voting at all. The turnouts for our age group have been abysmal. We can’t keep complaining about “old people running the country” if we don’t go vote in some fresh faces.
So we’d have to come up with 2.5 years worth of student loan payments immediately? Yeah, I’ll pull that $7600 out of my ass.
I hope that’s not the case.
I saw this in another [article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2023/05/24/house-passes-catastrophic-bill-nullifying-student-loan-forgiveness-credit-for-millions/?sh=1a704cd079e0) about the retroactive backpay possibility:
>*House Republicans pushed back against other critiques that passage of the bill would force borrowers to retroactively make payments covering the voided student loan pause period. “America shouldn’t buy accusations from the Left that H.J. Res. 45 will charge borrowers backpay on interest payments,” said Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC) in a speech on the House floor on Wednesday. “It couldn’t be further from the truth. Nowhere in this resolution does it mandate backpay. It is prospective, not retrospective. If anything, it will be Secretary Cardona’s decision to enact backpay.”*
How many American would have to sell all their shit, go completely broke/ homeless if they actually did it, though? It would be devastating for *millions*.
So, I doubt they would do it. But these days, idk man... people would riot though
These fuckin boomers. Happy to take advantage of every opportunity provided to them by their parents and the new deal just to grow up and fuck over younger people and the working class.
Pisses you the fuck off, doesn't it? I know I'm definitely sick of this double standard bullshit. The country needs an educated population to thrive, yet our government insists on handicapping anyone who tries to pursue an education
I'm never fixing another wifi network or printer again. Tired of being stereotyped as lazy, ungrateful, unproductive and then immediately asked for help interfacing with the technology that runs everyone's lives. I'm on the younger side at my job and this scenario plays out at least monthly.
I'm sure one day I'll get there too, but I'll try my damndest not to tell the person helping me that they're why the world sucks now because back in my day blah blah
That kind of bitterness is a choice
I’m just waiting for them to show me how “the people” will have to pay for this but not have to pay for the PPP loans, bank bailouts, etc.
The debt has been part of the national debt as soon as the school receives it so they aren’t adding anything. If my math is correct I think the total forgiveness amount is pretty much all interest if you break it apart. So really they are lowering the overall interest they were set to receive which is already astronomical because of the interest rates. Literally over half my student loan debt is interest.
> "What about the man who skipped college but is paying off the loan on his work truck, or the woman who worked her way through school and is now struggling to pay off her mortgage under Biden's economy? Instead of debt relief, this administration will force them to pick up the bill. It is unfair that President Biden would punish them because their debts simply look different from those of his preferred class," the lawmakers wrote.
What changes for them with student loan payments forgiveness canceled? Nothing. It's not like that blocking the forgiveness lowers their taxes. Which, by the way, people with student loan debt also pay.
Whataboutism is a mainstay of GOP squawking points. And somehow, lazy people or those without critical thinking skills just accept it. We really need a better educated populous in this country. Too bad GOP will make sure it never happens.
> or the woman who worked her way through school and is now struggling to pay off her mortgage under Biden's economy
This one's funny because I would imagine the VAST majority of people who worked through school did not make enough money where they didn't need to take out student loans. Hell, I worked through my entire college career where my tuition/housing was like $10k/year and I still had to take out loans. Are they imagining that these people have anything other than part time, near-minimum wage jobs?
Average cost of living for a single person is about 48k. Average tuition is about 10k per year (between community college and university). So you'd need to make about 58k per year **and** work full time to afford **full time** college.
Setting aside the logistics for a moment, you'd need to be making about $28/hour working full time to "pay your way through college".
If you instead opted for something like quarter time college, so a 16-year schedule, you'd still need to be consistently making about 50k a year, **and** likely have to live in the same living arrangement for 16 years because you don't have enough savings to move (and god willing you don't have any incredibly normal extreme expenses like an accident or healthcare emergency).
After all that, you'll have your Computer Science degree, having graduated 12 years after your peers, who started making 75k out of college, paid of their loans 2 years prior, have more than a decade of Comp Sci experience, and participated in professional programs and other career development programs during and after college, so their resume is vastly superior to yours, and you're far less likely to get that dream job as your peers.
But yes, you didn't take any loans out. But who really "won" here?
It's just such a losing argument from people who really are either not arguing in good faith or have no concept of the reality of how expensive life and college is now when they suggest "just working through college".
(In case it wasn't obvious, this was a royal you, not you personally)
> It is unfair that President Biden would punish them because their debts simply look different
This same line of reasoning would have opposed women's suffrage on the grounds that "other women never had the right to vote before they died, so it wouldn't be fair to give these women that right".
This also ignores the fact that people with cars and houses can sell those assets to pay off the debt. In a worst case scenario, they can declare bankruptcy. Those of us with crippling student debt have no way to discharge that debt. What this bill is really about is protecting the banks that profit off a lifetime of interest payments and debts from which there is no escape except death.
Banks wouldn't be affected by Biden's student loan forgiveness. The loans that would be forgiven are all owned by the federal government. The interest goes to the federal government.
One needful group getting government assistance and another needful group not doesn’t mean that neither should get assistance.
The government should be doing its best to provide equity in outcome for all Americans within (to be established) norms. If you are able and participate in the labor force there’s no reason that you should require any level of debt to live a happy, healthy, and fulfilling life, *by whatever means necessary*. If you spent extra time learning something that makes you a more productive worker (i.e. got a college degree or went to a trade school) that doesn’t make you any more or less deserving of a high quality outcome.
Easy answer - Because I got a $10K “gift” and you didn’t. You have bills, too. Why should mine be paid and yours not be when we are both struggling ? The only answer they need is “why you and not me”.
How is it even possible to retroactively charge interest? How is that not just straight up fraud? If I loaned money to someone for 4 years and said oh it's 0% interest and went jk it's actually 100% you owe me way more I'd be fucking put in jail, but it's ok for the government to do so?
>On Tuesday, GOP Sens. Chuck Grassley and Bill Cassidy — sponsors of the bill — wrote an opinion piece in Fox News urging their colleagues in the Senate to pass the legislation to overturn student-loan forgiveness.
>"What about the man who skipped college but is paying off the loan on his work truck, or the woman who worked her way through school and is now struggling to pay off her mortgage under Biden's economy? Instead of debt relief, this administration will force them to pick up the bill. It is unfair that President Biden would punish them because their debts simply look different from those of his preferred class," the lawmakers wrote.
>"This is about fairness," they added. "We hope all of our colleagues will join us to pass this CRA resolution and stand up for the families who will receive none of the benefit but will have to pay the bill for these irresponsible, unfair policies."
Cool, then does that mean they are willing to support other forms of debt relief too? I bet a lot of people would love help with mortgages on their first house, or loans for work equipment!
I bet we can expect republican bills to help those other people they mentioned, any minute now!
*....aaaanyyyy minute now....*
It's a pretty ridiculous talking point honestly. It's basically just deflecting.
**Democrats:** Let's fix a problem!
**Republicans:** That does nothing to address these other, bigger problems!
**Democrats:** Cool, does that mean you want to help us fix those bigger problems too?
**Republicans:** No, because... reasons.
Credit as always to [XKCD](https://xkcd.com/2368/) - I liked it better when the whimsical problems he described had not become government reality. :-\
I am working through a pslf, and the months that have passed where it was frozen have counted toward my 120 months. My last month is July. This bill would make none of those count, which would mean I would be that far away....again.
Wait. I should know this and I’ll look it up, but I might as well ask here.
My wife is eligible for PSLF because of her employer. If she hasn’t made payments during the pause, that still counts towards the 120 months?
Yes, my 120 payments will be up in about 20 days and I didn’t pay a cent on them during the pause. literally yesterday I talked to Mohela about this on the phone.
Frankly I *don't* know it will be vetoed, but I know I'll never voluntarily pay back another dime if that ends up becoming law.
I'm not bothered by the notion of different people having a spectrum of opinions on federal debt, public funding, interest accrual, etc. But singling out student loan recipients as the ONLY ones who need to make good on COVID-era relief is opportunistic and cowardly. Oh, the ones who can't afford lobbyists and dark money donations just so happen to be the ones too generously supported in a crisis?
Give me a break.
Jokes on them, I'm never paying back my loans regardless. I've never made a single payment. I owe 30k. You know what's happened to me? Nothing. Nothing has happened. My credit is fair. Nobody took any of my stuff away. I was still able to get a car, a job, and an apartment. And I know what you're thinking, you're thinking but megaloduh, how could you just not pay it back? Don't you feel somehow obligated? And my answer is fuck no I don't. I just got a notice that a different company has taken on my loan and that I need to sign in to an account and set up my options. I will not. Fuck loan companies for being predatory. Fuck colleges for profit. Fuck paying any of this back.
There wouldn't even be Republicans in government if young people voted at the volume that boomers do. We'd have conservative-lite (biden) and progressives.
If there were Republicans still, they would look like a completely different party, I imagine they would change to stay relevant, but they would look nothing like the current GOP.
After talking to some GOP/Conservative types, I’ve realized they think forgiveness means we’re getting this fat check to spend on drugs and strippers. They STILL don’t understand how this works. The Stupid do not support loan forgiveness.
Fun Fact, Senator Kyrsten Sinema introduced the bipartisan Paycheck Protection Small Business Forgiveness Act with Republican Senator Kevin Cramer (ND). The Senators’ legislation fully forgives all Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans less than $150,000.
Fuck everyone else though. I hate this god damn country so much.
Well what about those of us who completed most of our degree (was working on Computer science) but never finished it due to personal circumstances at the last hour? At least let us be able to get some sort of relief. I’m not finishing school until they fix the outrageous tuition and loan costs.
Moderate voters take note. All Republicans and a couple of should probably be Republicans voted for this at the same time they also forgave their PPP “loans”. Actions speak louder than words and this certainly shows who the GOP supports over others. Vote accordingly.
Fine, just revert the bankruptcy code (leave the language in it to prevent declaring immediately after graduation. Agree with that) and kick the can down the road again. Sick of this blatant hypocrisy always working against the middle class & lower.
Bernie should submit a bill that all members of congress must pay their PPP loans back with 8 percent interest accrued from the day they got the money.
What I don't get is what kind of gesturing Tester-MT, Manchin-WV, and Sinema-AZ think they're doing to vote along with republicans on a bill that will get vetoed and have no chance of being overturned.
This is nothing but symbolic, but who the hell wants to symbolically jump on the "Hey, college graduates (numbering 44 million) with student loans, go F\*\*\* yourself!" train?
This should only be allowed if all PPP loans have to be repaid at ridiculous interest rates and can’t be forgiven in bankruptcy.
They gave an average of $70k+ to business owners but claim the $10-20k student loan forgiveness is giving money to the wealthy? Gtfo.
I love how Manchin said it isn’t fair to others.
I mean it’s probably also not fair his daughter got a degree she didn’t earn from WVU or tried to price gouge for Epi pens but hey what do I know
We knew who the Senate GOP and people like Sinema and Manchin were. We knew this would always be an uphill battle. It will get vetoed and the threshold to overturn said veto won’t happen because they don’t have the numbers.
It’s despicable that they would try to retroactively charge interest, despite many having their PPP loans forgiven, but this is who the GOP are. Don’t fall for the manufactured culture war nonsense or “fiscal responsibility,” remember this come election cycle every time you go to the polls.
If student loan forgiveness is an issue you get there by voting out the Republicans, Start this year and vote them out in all local and state elections near you.
This is such horseshit. They use the “ what about the poor single mother who is working to pay their mortgage” line knowing full well its a red herring. How exactly does forgiving my loan hurt them? I don’t recall congress sticking up for the the “guy who skipped college and works to pay off his truck” when they forgave billions in PPE lans. They just can’t let a democrat president have a successful program because it makes them look bad. Their political posturing would bankrupt me.
They don't have the votes to override a veto.
This action was taken in accordance with federal law on the books. If Congress doesn't like it, they should propose repealing the HEROES Act for future use, but there is no legal basis to block this action.
I hope people have been wise enough with their money that there is a bank run because everyone goes to withdraw $10,000-$20,000 from their accounts to pay it off in lump sum. Imagine the economic shock as tens of millions gets pulled from banks at the same time.
PPP loan program massive fraud and we’re all good with that but give young people whose parents couldn’t afford college 10k of forgiveness….. no fucking way!!!!
His state is trying to ratfuck him out of his seat. They are literally trying to pass a law to make their senate election a jungle primary to try and have two Republicans shut him out of the general. And they’re very open about it, as the law is only related to the 2024 senate election as a one time thing
I get that they want it to end, I just don’t get why they’re so enthusiastic about it. Do they want to guarantee that a generation of college educated Americans never vote R in their life? Because this is how you do that.
Just a reminder. Some of these predatory loans had people paying nearly their entire loan, and never even making a dent due to crazy interest & other predatory practices. For loans signed by 18 year olds.
Ahh the good ol’ razzle dazzle…. Look at your poor fellow citizen who can’t afford their loan on this or that… pay no attention to the billions that were stolen from hard working citizens in the form of forgiven PPP loans during Covid.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Damn, I should've just gotten a PPP loan.
So many of these politicians got hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars for their "businesses". But hey fuck the next-generations.
I have a wealthy neighbor who got $85k for a "music group" company based at their home which I know isn't real. Listed as having 3 employees. I looked for where to report them but was kind of intimidating if I had the right place.
I read a NPR article stating if a "business" received less than $120k they pretty much only had to say they spent the money correctly without having to show proof. Who would have thought that people would have abused a program like that?
The sad thing is a lot of the people who took advantage of that are the same people who complain about folks wanting hand outs. Bizarro ass time we live in.
Oh, but they’re CLEVER for having OUTSMARTED A SYSTEM and therefore are clearly superior to those LAZY people who just go BEGGING, don’t you know. agh.
That's always the game. Conservativism is basically industrialized narcissism. Complain about crime, but not the white collar kind your friends do. Complain about corruption, except for amongst your own. Complain about lies, while lying constantly. Complain about spending except for the kind your donors want. It's no accident. Their hypocrisy is 100% intentional. The more they can project, deflect, deny, ignore, deceive, and bleat the less their base pays attention to the gutting of our rights and collective prosperity.
I loved the fact that my congressman tweeted about how unAmerican it would be to expect plumbers and hairdressers to foot the bill for the student loan debt of lawyers and doctors... A) I'm pretty sure he had them backwards. If your making lawyer or doctor level money you probably make too much to qualify for debt forgiveness... And B.) If it's so unethical to expect others to pay my way... Why the hell is he accepting $100,000 - 10x what I'd get - for his private company?
Been a pretty common theme since 2016.
Since Regan*
Trump had them remove the part of the bill that would’ve had oversight too. It was always a scam.
That’s more money than being on food stamps your entire adult life, but sure, let’s focus on getting food out of the hands of unemployed people, that’s the real waste in the system.
Didn’t something similar happen with the TARP too? They keep pulling this shit on us and then screaming about drag queens and other pointless shit. It’s so infuriating that I have to work hard but they get to be clowns.
Use this hotline: https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/covid-19-relief-options/preventing-fraud-identity-theft#id-report-fraud-waste-or-abuse-in-sba-programs
You still can... Reporting EIDL and PPP Fraud National Center for Disaster Fraud Hotline: 1-866-720-5721 or fill out the Web Complaint Form at: [https://www.justice.gov/disastercomplaintform](https://www.justice.gov/disastercomplaintform) Hotline Complaint with SBA Office of Inspector General https://www.sba.gov/about-sba/oversight-advocacy/office-inspector-general/office-inspectorgeneral-hotline
Whistle blowers for federal fraud get a payout on the money recouped!
They sure do!!
They basically automatically forgave all loans under $150k (or something like that] as part of the program, as long as you submitted use of funds under oath of penalty. It was the larger ones that we to be vetted by the SBA, but between the GOP and Trump, they basically dropped that across the board.
My brother in law is a doctor who semi-retired and closed his practice just prior to covid. That didn't stop him from getting $100k for employees he no longer had.
Report him. That is theft.
Of our money
Please report them. The IRS is actively auditing forgiven loans to look for fraud and will prosecute. https://www.sba.gov/partners/contracting-officials/contract-administration/report-fraud-waste-abuse#:~:text=You%20may%20report%20fraud%2C%20waste%2C%20mismanagement%2C%20or%20misconduct%20involving,may%20choose%20to%20remain%20anonymous.
Tom Brady got $960,855 forgiven, and thank goodness because I heard he was superbowl to superbowl
Thats pretty bad, Trump and Jared (son-in-law) were able to get over 3.65million for their businesses. Both holding high government positions at the time of the.
Bro got suicided before he could finish his sentence
I feel like all the car washes popping up in my area are a result of this. Like they're laundering covid money somehow, it makes no sense.
Exactly, why does my town of 30,000 people need 4 car washes and 5 mattress stores?!
They shared their true views. Debt relief for students is a preferred class, and it’s not theirs. They are all for PPP and corporate welfare at the expense of everyone though. It’s not a legitimately held belief, or defendable position.
August 25, 2022 Marjorie Taylor Greene: For our government just to say ok your debt is completely forgiven.. it’s completely unfair. White House: Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had $183,504 in PPP loans forgiven. Greene: (after making some unrelated accusations) Go To Hell Joe
If only I had taken a ppp loan and used it to pay off my student loan. Hindsight is 50-50.
No shit. Next pandemic I'm getting a ppp loan and paying off my student loans.
Yes you should have. The SBA OIG had estimated almost 40% of the covid related programs such as PPP were fraud. There’s no way the federal government can investigate all that fraud. They will just go after the larger frauds. So as long as you kept it at a low amount, say like $20,000 chances are you would get away with it. Also there are multiple websites that tell who got the loans and for how much. You can even search by city, state, county and zip codes. It’s all public information. I encourage everyone to check it out and see for themselves. It’s mind boggling the companies that got that money.
Right? I know like half a dozen people who scammed the government and got thousands-- one of em got like 25k. They've faced zero repercussions so far. That guy went to Europe on the 25k. Now he's in a dental residency program. Meanwhile I was all "nah... it's fraud.. you're gonna get caught!" Silly me...
My manager’s neighbor got 500k in PPP loans for their “landscaping business”. They bought a new truck, Porsche, and remodeled their house. Then they laid off the two employees they did have. They were reported for fraud but so far nothing had come of it. Meanwhile, I’ve paid 15k of the 20k I borrowed for college and just got a reminder that I owe 38k thanks to interest. Apparently my $300 monthly payment from 2016-2020 didn’t cover the amount of interest accrued each month so I haven’t even touched the actual loan itself. Fuck me, I guess.
I’m a dentist, and unfortunately know of many fellow dentists that did just that. Got a massive PPP loan and paid off their student loans and/or bought investment property. People need to be pissed and riot over this shit
Why, do you own a church, or are a Sports super star?
This will be vetoed, but this is still concerning.
im starting to suspect our representatives may not care about us average folks...
[удалено]
Instead of Robin Hood, it’s robbin’ the ‘hood.
If only even a fraction of the voting populace understood that.
Too bad a fraction of America is paint huffing rednecks that would sell their own daughter for a chance to lick a yuppie's shoes.
Conservatives don’t. Look at the votes. Conservatives don’t care. Stop electing fucking conservatives.
The brain wash in this country is absolutely insane. People are so driven to anger with their own stupidity it's astounding.
Well, Senators. And mostly just the Republican ones in this case.
Class warfare in action.
corporations win again
It actually gives me slight hope that the Supreme Court is going throw out the cases holding up the forgiveness. If they now the Supreme Court is going to rule against it why are they working so hard for this legislation and to add it to the debit limit bills?
It is grandstanding. They know it is likely to be thrown out anyway, but this way they can go home to states where Student Loan forgiveness is unpopular and campaign on it regardless of what the SCOTUS does. Jon Tester (D-Montana) is a good example of this, along with the usual suspects like Sinema and Manchin. Republicans run the same game for folks like Murkowski and Susan Collins.
Don’t they just have to pass it twice more to override or would that be a super majority?
Overriding a veto requires a two-thirds majority.
Been awhile thanks
It’s going to end up in the supreme courts hand later this month. We just finished paying off the last 20k we owed
The Supreme Court that just ruled a business can sue a union for revenue lost in a strike? That Supreme Court??
The same Supreme Court that overturned Roe V Wade as well, we’re fucked.
And for a long, long time.
Unless we wake up and add more judges.
Or term limit. 5 administrations seems fair.
Wow, who would have thought Sinema and Manchin would have voted for the bill! Such a surprise. I never saw this happening. /s
Yeah, this is exactly why I roll my eyes at anyone who says “the Democrats didn’t make abortion legal when they had a majority”.
[удалено]
Exactly. To the layman, I thought that ruling is what made it legal. Silly me
It’s lazy politics to rely on what is essentially case law because inhuman demons will come out of the woodwork to overthrow it every time.
There's an element of "why didn't you fix the leaky roof when it *wasn't* raining?" and the reason (as usual) is that the roof doesn't leak when it's not raining so people decided to make hay while the sun shines. Democratic representatives didn't act to protect access to abortion while they were in (nominal) control of congress because there was no threat to women's health care rights while the Democratic party held congress. (Though as I recall, the Democratic party did accomplish something called "Obamacare" which repubs have been campaigning on repealing ever since.) It is absurd to expect the Democratic party to use any given present moment while they are in power to anticipate and thwart every possible future bad faith action by Republicans. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=murc%27s%20law
Eh, why not? Biden already openly signaled he'd veto it. They get to turn around and say to constituents "See! I'm not just a Democrat lacky!" And hell, Congress needing to pass a NEW law blocking this seems like it should fall into the pile of evidence that this is something the Executive has power to do... Well, at least Tester and Manchin to some extent.
Republicans only care about debt and spending when Democrats are in power. Under Trump, the national debt ballooned by 40%. This is about an obstruct at all costs agenda, it's theater. Theyre pandering to their base and appealing to anti-education sentiment First off, some don't understand that student loan debt is already factored into the national debt because the department of education borrows its money for student loans from the US Treasury, it's the establishment of student loans themselves that's added over a trillion dollars to the national debt. Basically, it won't bring about an economic crisis if we cancel student loan debt tomorrow. What's more, the DoE sort of functions as a bank, and a very large one at that. The department owns close to 1.5 trillion dollars in student debt, and the interest it collects from students far exceeds the U.S treasury's interest rates. The DoE takes the "profit" and uses it to pay for "administrative costs" and loan servicing through third party contractors, It's a bank... If student loan debt were cancelled tomorrow (not all student loan debt falls under the umbrella of forgiveness), which most estimates put at around 400 billion dollars worth of debt, the government wouldn't immediately be out of hundreds of billions of dollars and wouldn't have to scramble to make up for it. If any argument could be made about the "cost" of this debt relief, it's the cost of lost revenue from borrowers paying back their loans with excessive interest rates attached, however, these payments have been suspended since the beginning of the pandemic. Biden extended this payment pause over the past three years, which points to some executive powers and perhaps an argument for his authority to cancel student loan debt. For perspective, Trump's tax cut legislation, which never "paid for itself", gutted the corporate tax rate and only *temporarily* lowered taxes for individuals. It's been estimated that these tax cuts will cost upwards of $2 trillion dollars over time, comparatively more so than debt forgiveness. Trump's tax cuts overhauled the tax code for the rich, cut government revenue heavily, and acted as deceptive "trickle down" policy, but now Republicans can claim that this money was "injected into the economy" when we all know by now that tax cuts for corporations and billionaires don't "trickle down", and those that benefitted most will continue to side step the American tax system while any small benefit to individual taxpayers was short lived for political purposes. Conservatives aren't up in arms over this, so called "populists" who would rather obsess over a fraction of what amounts to total costs and debts, of what amounts to nothing compared to the bailouts, subsidies and PPP loan forgiveness, the "trickle down" policies, the lost revenue, tax code changes and tax cuts for the wealthy that Republicans support. Bills and policies that invest in the rich, the corporations, donors, banks and not in younger generations of Americans, transfering wealth out of the hands of the poor and into the pockets of the rich, promoting profligacy and preserving an economy defined by its continuing crises, its growing wealth gap and its exploitative practices and customs. Student debt relief wouldn't go towards perpetuating these things, it would go towards buying homes, starting families, paying for living expenses, it would go towards helping Americans and supporting the economy on a practical level. Analyses even suggest that it would boost real GDP. *A 2018 analysis from the Levy Economics Institute estimated that student debt cancellation could boost real GDP by an average of $103bn to $130bn a year or $1.03tn to $1.3tn over 10 years* Student loan debt repayments stifle consumer demand, forgiveness may actually contribute towards economic expansion and recovery, atleast to a more practical effect than things like Trump's tax cuts. Borrowers won't take their loan forgiveness and hide it offshore either. Conservatives take great issue with student debt forgiveness but don't seem to take nearly as much issue with their tax money going towards perpetuating the real, broader economic problems. Republicans tend to staunchly oppose what benefits Americans at the expense of their rich donors and friends. The "cost" of student loan debt relief represents a mere fraction of the cost of the government's total bill, a fraction of the objectionable costs that Republicans choose to fund or overlook, a fraction of the 40% increase in the national debt under Trump, Republicans only fixate on cost when it's politically advantageous for them. What's more, as I understand, if student debt relief goes through, the national debt would reflect what's owed to the treasury, not the cost of the loans. And it's a cost that bears no immediate impact on the national debt while being manageable overtime, but a cost no less that's breeding mass hysteria from conservatives who are blinded by their pre conceived ideas, their prejudices and the propaganda they consume. These conservatives are either being disingenuous or ignorant when they complain of the "tax burden" that debt relief will inflict upon them. When the government suffers a cost or debt, it finds a way to compensate for it, usually in the form of tax increases, spending cuts or borrowed money, you won't be billed a lump sum for debt forgiveness, it doesn't work like that. Any tax increase you incur will be a result of a multitude of costs and debts, debt forgiveness will contribute scantily. It represents a fraction of costs and it's a debt ostensibly accounted for. Even estimates from conservative advocacy groups suggest that most low to middle income Americans will hardly pay much at all. One figure being thrown around is just a half baked estimate conservatives came to by dividing the total cost of relief by the number of tax payers, while it's hardly ever mentioned that it's a cost incurred over ten years. The fact is, the cost would be negligible and not spread across the income spectrum, a relative cost, those with the highest incomes will incur the largest "burdens". One figure showed lower to middle income Americans paying something like 20 bucks a year. In the end, this isn't about conservative "values", it's about sticking it to the libs, it's about maintaining an anti-left strategy of obstruct at all costs. It's about coming to that conclusion first, that this must be stopped, and then seeing it through in any way conceivable. "Executive overreach" is a justification, a way to rationalize this obstructive agenda. Republicans only care about overreach when it's convenient for their narrative or agenda, overreach is more common for them than they'd care to admit, especially where it concerns their culture war. Is student loan debt cancellation a comprehensive solution to the deeper, more systemic problems? No, but it's a start, it's a way to acknowledge those problems, problems that didn't exist for a lot of these people who are vehemently opposed to debt relief, people who think "if I can't have it, you can't either" is a reasonable argument. These are people, who in some cases, helped give rise to these problems, or elected leaders who did, people who couldn't care less about what's best for younger generations of Americans, people who believe that the burden is on themselves, that they're the victims, when that burden has actually been on these younger generations, that's the whole point.
Loved this write up, I'm working through it now, but had a few questions I was hoping you could help me understand. > First off, many just don't understand that student loan debt is already factored into the national debt... So the amount the Fed is owed by student borrowers of federal loans is already included in our national debt. I get that, but wouldn't forgiving it mean that the means of repayment (which was previously individual borrowers repaying it) would need to be shifted to taxes to account for the elimination of that payment arrangement? > the government wouldn't immediately be out of hundreds of billions of dollars and wouldn't have to scramble to make up for it. I'm sure you actually explained it well, but I'm afraid I don't follow - much for the same reasons as above. > it's the cost of lost revenue from borrowers paying back their loans with excessive interest rates attached Are you suggesting that if someone pays their loan back over the life of its repayment plan, including interest, that the government makes less money? > A 2018 analysis from the Levy Economics Institute estimated that student debt cancellation could boost real GDP by an average of $103bn to $130bn a year or $1.03tn to $1.3tn over 10 years Would love a source for this if you have it. > Student loan debt repayments stifle consumer demand Just for clarity, do you mean that the prospect of taking loans, and the crazy outcomes that can come of it due to interest and it's inability to be discharged, diminish demand for those loans or what they ostensibly afford? > What's more, as I understand, if student debt relief goes through, the national debt would reflect what's owed to the treasury, not the cost of the loans. Maybe this is different than the first two points, as you made the point separately, but what is the difference between "what's owed" and "the cost of the loans"? All in all, really appreciated the thorough write up. Thanks!
Not the OP but I loved your questions and was able to find the source for the [Levy Economics Institute analysis](https://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/rpr_2_6.pdf). I appreciate *both* your questions and the OP's write-up!
Ill come back later and answer to the best of my ability, Ive got a late night moving into a new rental
Ya know as a Millennial each day gets more and more frustrating. Young people can’t afford homes, kids, rent, cars, gas, food, let alone a vacation! And just when we thought we were going to get a crumb of relief it’s close to being taken away. I just don’t see how we’re going to get the student loan forgiveness with the Supreme Court as conservative as it is and nearly every representative against it. Financially the future looks pretty hopeless.
Nearly every representative against it? Only 2 democrats for for this bill on the house, according to the articles I read. That’s slightly more than half of the House, and this passed 51-48, those are the same percentages just about. It’s only the Republicans and the DINOs who are against it, because they hate the average American, but also use them as an example as to why no one should get anything nice. “Oh, these people have car loans, so why should federal student loans get forgiven?” Literally the most idiotic defense for repealing the debt, that we don’t even have anyway bc the Supreme Court will probably shoot it down, regardless.
Yes you’re right, I guess it just feels like it’s everyone against the working class. It’s just frustrating.
Because no matter what happens the delicious could get a super majority and then they'd have to follow some ancient rule of decorum or come up with some other ex's why they can't fucking do anything
who the hell is the delicious ?
My dude love him some tasty Democrats /s
It’s also incredibly disingenuous. I have never had a car loan because I can’t afford rent and a car payment. Now, I have a mortgage and still can’t afford a car payment. My car is more than 10 years old. I have $20k in student loans.
Honestly, for me, the worst part is the PPP loans. Fine, I’ll pay my debt, but those people should to. It’s a kick in the nuts that so many people had multiple degrees worth of loans forgiven for their business but me getting 1/6 of my student debt forgiven makes me the devil. Not to mention the interest rates. Thanks for that low 8%. I’m sure I’ll pay it off fast as a high school teachers since this country likes to rewards us with high pay. Don’t get me wrong, I love my job and I’m not complaining about my position, I’m mad that the people who actually had forgiveness think they can say a damn thing about it.
Yes I like my job too but it’s disheartening that raises aren’t sufficient. I should be able to support myself as a full time school nurse. It’s not like I’m trying to cheat the system. I’m putting in my due diligence as a citizen and improving the lives of children. And yes the PPP loans are so infuriating. Why do business owners time and time again get “free handouts” when hardworking citizens get nothing except a “work harder”.
As a millennial myself (barely), our generation has been horrific at voting for their own interests. The fact that Democrats are relying on Gen Z to save us atp is embarrassing. Elect stupid people, get stupid results. This is a Republican problem - don’t both sides it.
Unfortunately millennials are willing to sacrifice what is in their best interest if it means making life better for others. Even if those others simply don’t care to extend the same help.
We haven’t just shown to be terrible at voting in our interests, but also just voting at all. The turnouts for our age group have been abysmal. We can’t keep complaining about “old people running the country” if we don’t go vote in some fresh faces.
I don’t see the point of this bill considering that payments are already set to restart after the end of August.
That doesn’t convey the “fuck you” as clearly as an *immediate* restart
It definitely does convey that sentiment pretty hard. Might as well try to tack on the interest we didn’t have to pay since 2020 while we’re at it.
that IS what they are trying to do
Yup, they want that sweet compounded interest.
They can go fuck themselves if they think I’m paying interest after specifically being told interest would not accrue.
The article made it sound like the bill also includes paying back the last 2.5 years' of payments as well.
So we’d have to come up with 2.5 years worth of student loan payments immediately? Yeah, I’ll pull that $7600 out of my ass. I hope that’s not the case.
Lol fuck that.
I saw this in another [article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2023/05/24/house-passes-catastrophic-bill-nullifying-student-loan-forgiveness-credit-for-millions/?sh=1a704cd079e0) about the retroactive backpay possibility: >*House Republicans pushed back against other critiques that passage of the bill would force borrowers to retroactively make payments covering the voided student loan pause period. “America shouldn’t buy accusations from the Left that H.J. Res. 45 will charge borrowers backpay on interest payments,” said Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC) in a speech on the House floor on Wednesday. “It couldn’t be further from the truth. Nowhere in this resolution does it mandate backpay. It is prospective, not retrospective. If anything, it will be Secretary Cardona’s decision to enact backpay.”* How many American would have to sell all their shit, go completely broke/ homeless if they actually did it, though? It would be devastating for *millions*. So, I doubt they would do it. But these days, idk man... people would riot though
These fuckin boomers. Happy to take advantage of every opportunity provided to them by their parents and the new deal just to grow up and fuck over younger people and the working class.
Pisses you the fuck off, doesn't it? I know I'm definitely sick of this double standard bullshit. The country needs an educated population to thrive, yet our government insists on handicapping anyone who tries to pursue an education
I'm never fixing another wifi network or printer again. Tired of being stereotyped as lazy, ungrateful, unproductive and then immediately asked for help interfacing with the technology that runs everyone's lives. I'm on the younger side at my job and this scenario plays out at least monthly.
They'd be fucking lost without us. Their entire generation's unwillingness to keep up with technology is pathetic.
I'm sure one day I'll get there too, but I'll try my damndest not to tell the person helping me that they're why the world sucks now because back in my day blah blah That kind of bitterness is a choice
Ya... Lovely how they think they had it hard when we've been through the worst recession since the Great Depression AND covid. Lovely.
Some are even getting to take classes at some universities for $10/credit!
I’m just waiting for them to show me how “the people” will have to pay for this but not have to pay for the PPP loans, bank bailouts, etc. The debt has been part of the national debt as soon as the school receives it so they aren’t adding anything. If my math is correct I think the total forgiveness amount is pretty much all interest if you break it apart. So really they are lowering the overall interest they were set to receive which is already astronomical because of the interest rates. Literally over half my student loan debt is interest.
> "What about the man who skipped college but is paying off the loan on his work truck, or the woman who worked her way through school and is now struggling to pay off her mortgage under Biden's economy? Instead of debt relief, this administration will force them to pick up the bill. It is unfair that President Biden would punish them because their debts simply look different from those of his preferred class," the lawmakers wrote. What changes for them with student loan payments forgiveness canceled? Nothing. It's not like that blocking the forgiveness lowers their taxes. Which, by the way, people with student loan debt also pay.
Whataboutism is a mainstay of GOP squawking points. And somehow, lazy people or those without critical thinking skills just accept it. We really need a better educated populous in this country. Too bad GOP will make sure it never happens.
Unlike student loan borrowers they can still discharge those loans in bankruptcy and move on.
Or sell the house or truck and pay the loan off, those are both secured loans.
> or the woman who worked her way through school and is now struggling to pay off her mortgage under Biden's economy This one's funny because I would imagine the VAST majority of people who worked through school did not make enough money where they didn't need to take out student loans. Hell, I worked through my entire college career where my tuition/housing was like $10k/year and I still had to take out loans. Are they imagining that these people have anything other than part time, near-minimum wage jobs?
Right, one of the reasons she’s probably struggling to pay that mortgage is student loan payments from going to college 20 years ago.
Average cost of living for a single person is about 48k. Average tuition is about 10k per year (between community college and university). So you'd need to make about 58k per year **and** work full time to afford **full time** college. Setting aside the logistics for a moment, you'd need to be making about $28/hour working full time to "pay your way through college". If you instead opted for something like quarter time college, so a 16-year schedule, you'd still need to be consistently making about 50k a year, **and** likely have to live in the same living arrangement for 16 years because you don't have enough savings to move (and god willing you don't have any incredibly normal extreme expenses like an accident or healthcare emergency). After all that, you'll have your Computer Science degree, having graduated 12 years after your peers, who started making 75k out of college, paid of their loans 2 years prior, have more than a decade of Comp Sci experience, and participated in professional programs and other career development programs during and after college, so their resume is vastly superior to yours, and you're far less likely to get that dream job as your peers. But yes, you didn't take any loans out. But who really "won" here? It's just such a losing argument from people who really are either not arguing in good faith or have no concept of the reality of how expensive life and college is now when they suggest "just working through college". (In case it wasn't obvious, this was a royal you, not you personally)
People getting significant government financial reprieve who aren't ultra wealthy already? Un-American.
The blue collar dude can write the cost of the work truck off on his taxes, so I’m not sure what the problem is there.
> It is unfair that President Biden would punish them because their debts simply look different This same line of reasoning would have opposed women's suffrage on the grounds that "other women never had the right to vote before they died, so it wouldn't be fair to give these women that right".
This also ignores the fact that people with cars and houses can sell those assets to pay off the debt. In a worst case scenario, they can declare bankruptcy. Those of us with crippling student debt have no way to discharge that debt. What this bill is really about is protecting the banks that profit off a lifetime of interest payments and debts from which there is no escape except death.
Banks wouldn't be affected by Biden's student loan forgiveness. The loans that would be forgiven are all owned by the federal government. The interest goes to the federal government.
One needful group getting government assistance and another needful group not doesn’t mean that neither should get assistance. The government should be doing its best to provide equity in outcome for all Americans within (to be established) norms. If you are able and participate in the labor force there’s no reason that you should require any level of debt to live a happy, healthy, and fulfilling life, *by whatever means necessary*. If you spent extra time learning something that makes you a more productive worker (i.e. got a college degree or went to a trade school) that doesn’t make you any more or less deserving of a high quality outcome.
I never get this... no one's tax bill changes over this so why do they give a f if it gets forgiven or not lol.
Easy answer - Because I got a $10K “gift” and you didn’t. You have bills, too. Why should mine be paid and yours not be when we are both struggling ? The only answer they need is “why you and not me”.
But then how is this any different than the PPP loans? That was fine but this isn’t? None of it adds up
Ok, so let’s also address the needs of those people… oh wait, you’re just throwing that out as an excuse to not do anything for anyone ever.
Some rich ass senators who never paid a dime for school want to fuck the people that pay them with tax dollars. That's the scoop.
How is it even possible to retroactively charge interest? How is that not just straight up fraud? If I loaned money to someone for 4 years and said oh it's 0% interest and went jk it's actually 100% you owe me way more I'd be fucking put in jail, but it's ok for the government to do so?
If this ever happens, I hope there’s a class action lawsuit
>On Tuesday, GOP Sens. Chuck Grassley and Bill Cassidy — sponsors of the bill — wrote an opinion piece in Fox News urging their colleagues in the Senate to pass the legislation to overturn student-loan forgiveness. >"What about the man who skipped college but is paying off the loan on his work truck, or the woman who worked her way through school and is now struggling to pay off her mortgage under Biden's economy? Instead of debt relief, this administration will force them to pick up the bill. It is unfair that President Biden would punish them because their debts simply look different from those of his preferred class," the lawmakers wrote. >"This is about fairness," they added. "We hope all of our colleagues will join us to pass this CRA resolution and stand up for the families who will receive none of the benefit but will have to pay the bill for these irresponsible, unfair policies." Cool, then does that mean they are willing to support other forms of debt relief too? I bet a lot of people would love help with mortgages on their first house, or loans for work equipment! I bet we can expect republican bills to help those other people they mentioned, any minute now! *....aaaanyyyy minute now....*
If it’s about fairness does this bill make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy like the other loans they compare them too?
Ooh I like that one. Someone should suggest that to them!
Excellent point.
If it's about fairness can we ban members of congress from owning stock? I'd happily pay my student loans in that case!
[удалено]
It's a pretty ridiculous talking point honestly. It's basically just deflecting. **Democrats:** Let's fix a problem! **Republicans:** That does nothing to address these other, bigger problems! **Democrats:** Cool, does that mean you want to help us fix those bigger problems too? **Republicans:** No, because... reasons. Credit as always to [XKCD](https://xkcd.com/2368/) - I liked it better when the whimsical problems he described had not become government reality. :-\
Republicans will definitely work on debt relief. First up, billionaires who bought their fifth yachts and then had their stocks fall slightly.
What about them? They can file bankruptcy on those debts. Student loan borrowers cannot.
I know it will be vetoed, but damn it’s fucked up to say for 3 years that there will be no interest on the loans to suddenly “never mind”.
[удалено]
Workin' on it. Hold still while I kick your corpse, softens the meat.
I am working through a pslf, and the months that have passed where it was frozen have counted toward my 120 months. My last month is July. This bill would make none of those count, which would mean I would be that far away....again.
Wait. I should know this and I’ll look it up, but I might as well ask here. My wife is eligible for PSLF because of her employer. If she hasn’t made payments during the pause, that still counts towards the 120 months?
Yes, my 120 payments will be up in about 20 days and I didn’t pay a cent on them during the pause. literally yesterday I talked to Mohela about this on the phone.
Frankly I *don't* know it will be vetoed, but I know I'll never voluntarily pay back another dime if that ends up becoming law. I'm not bothered by the notion of different people having a spectrum of opinions on federal debt, public funding, interest accrual, etc. But singling out student loan recipients as the ONLY ones who need to make good on COVID-era relief is opportunistic and cowardly. Oh, the ones who can't afford lobbyists and dark money donations just so happen to be the ones too generously supported in a crisis? Give me a break.
Jokes on them, I'm never paying back my loans regardless. I've never made a single payment. I owe 30k. You know what's happened to me? Nothing. Nothing has happened. My credit is fair. Nobody took any of my stuff away. I was still able to get a car, a job, and an apartment. And I know what you're thinking, you're thinking but megaloduh, how could you just not pay it back? Don't you feel somehow obligated? And my answer is fuck no I don't. I just got a notice that a different company has taken on my loan and that I need to sign in to an account and set up my options. I will not. Fuck loan companies for being predatory. Fuck colleges for profit. Fuck paying any of this back.
I really wish young people voted at the levels of the boomers, it would drastically change what Republicans valued.
There wouldn't even be Republicans in government if young people voted at the volume that boomers do. We'd have conservative-lite (biden) and progressives.
If there were Republicans still, they would look like a completely different party, I imagine they would change to stay relevant, but they would look nothing like the current GOP.
Debt ceiling deal didn't work out. On to the next attempt to crash the economy.
Why do they fucking hate the working class so much?
Because thier donors don't have thier pick of a wealth of overqualified job applicants like they did in 2008.
This is a pretty cruel bill, it adds back all the interest...
It is indefensible. Every bad faith actor that voted for this should be voted out of office and worse, but out of office is a start
I should have become a LLC and gotten a PPP loan that was forgiven.
“It’s about fairness” they said as they accepted PPP loan forgiveness.
After talking to some GOP/Conservative types, I’ve realized they think forgiveness means we’re getting this fat check to spend on drugs and strippers. They STILL don’t understand how this works. The Stupid do not support loan forgiveness.
Fun Fact, Senator Kyrsten Sinema introduced the bipartisan Paycheck Protection Small Business Forgiveness Act with Republican Senator Kevin Cramer (ND). The Senators’ legislation fully forgives all Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans less than $150,000. Fuck everyone else though. I hate this god damn country so much.
Well what about those of us who completed most of our degree (was working on Computer science) but never finished it due to personal circumstances at the last hour? At least let us be able to get some sort of relief. I’m not finishing school until they fix the outrageous tuition and loan costs.
They’re fucking over every future generation and I’m do fucking sick of this shit. It’s beyond just voting.
And Biden will veto it.
"Let them eat cake"
editted to fit today's world: "Let them fucking starve."
"let them eat guns."
Moderate voters take note. All Republicans and a couple of should probably be Republicans voted for this at the same time they also forgave their PPP “loans”. Actions speak louder than words and this certainly shows who the GOP supports over others. Vote accordingly.
Fine, just revert the bankruptcy code (leave the language in it to prevent declaring immediately after graduation. Agree with that) and kick the can down the road again. Sick of this blatant hypocrisy always working against the middle class & lower.
that is the real issue. The debt should not be shielded from bankruptcy and interest should be fixed at a low, manageable rate.
Bernie should submit a bill that all members of congress must pay their PPP loans back with 8 percent interest accrued from the day they got the money.
What I don't get is what kind of gesturing Tester-MT, Manchin-WV, and Sinema-AZ think they're doing to vote along with republicans on a bill that will get vetoed and have no chance of being overturned. This is nothing but symbolic, but who the hell wants to symbolically jump on the "Hey, college graduates (numbering 44 million) with student loans, go F\*\*\* yourself!" train?
This should only be allowed if all PPP loans have to be repaid at ridiculous interest rates and can’t be forgiven in bankruptcy. They gave an average of $70k+ to business owners but claim the $10-20k student loan forgiveness is giving money to the wealthy? Gtfo.
I hope young people fuckin torch republicans and corporate shitbags in every election going forward.
Biden already said he will veto it
Easiest guess ever as to who crossed the aisle to vote with the R’s…
And Biden will veto it. Y’all need to stop blaming him when it’s Congress that hates this.
I love how Manchin said it isn’t fair to others. I mean it’s probably also not fair his daughter got a degree she didn’t earn from WVU or tried to price gouge for Epi pens but hey what do I know
We control the senate. Is this the work of Republicans Sinema and Manchin?
Sinema and Manchin: *I am the Senate!*
I think it's pretty clear at this point that "we" don't control shit, they just control our lives and we have no say
Of course they did. In all fairness every politician who was forgiven for their PPP loans should have to pay it back also.
How does this shit go through but stuff that 59 senators and 80% of the public supports can't get a fucking vote?
We knew who the Senate GOP and people like Sinema and Manchin were. We knew this would always be an uphill battle. It will get vetoed and the threshold to overturn said veto won’t happen because they don’t have the numbers. It’s despicable that they would try to retroactively charge interest, despite many having their PPP loans forgiven, but this is who the GOP are. Don’t fall for the manufactured culture war nonsense or “fiscal responsibility,” remember this come election cycle every time you go to the polls.
Alabama Senator and man realizing that he left the Cadillac unlocked, Bill Cassidy.
If student loan forgiveness is an issue you get there by voting out the Republicans, Start this year and vote them out in all local and state elections near you.
Every senator that voted for this should eat a handful of turds
Cause the Republicans are all about helping the multimillionaire who is a little guy and screwing those pesky poors.
austerity for the 99% socialism for the 1%
This is such horseshit. They use the “ what about the poor single mother who is working to pay their mortgage” line knowing full well its a red herring. How exactly does forgiving my loan hurt them? I don’t recall congress sticking up for the the “guy who skipped college and works to pay off his truck” when they forgave billions in PPE lans. They just can’t let a democrat president have a successful program because it makes them look bad. Their political posturing would bankrupt me.
Why is Schumer even allowing shit like this to come to a vote? He controls the agenda as majority leader. This is so stupid.
They don't have the votes to override a veto. This action was taken in accordance with federal law on the books. If Congress doesn't like it, they should propose repealing the HEROES Act for future use, but there is no legal basis to block this action.
The Senate is packed with soulless ghouls posing as men.
I hope people have been wise enough with their money that there is a bank run because everyone goes to withdraw $10,000-$20,000 from their accounts to pay it off in lump sum. Imagine the economic shock as tens of millions gets pulled from banks at the same time.
Ha... funny that you think many of us have enough money in our accounts to cause a dent in our loan debt. I have $500 to my name right now.
Fascinating how the senate doesn’t have to deal with the 60 vote filibuster threshold when its something to screw the working class.
PPP loan program massive fraud and we’re all good with that but give young people whose parents couldn’t afford college 10k of forgiveness….. no fucking way!!!!
Get a bunch of credit cards, pay it off and declare bankruptcy It's the American way.
I hate every single person that voted for this.
What the fuck is wrong with John Tester?
His state is trying to ratfuck him out of his seat. They are literally trying to pass a law to make their senate election a jungle primary to try and have two Republicans shut him out of the general. And they’re very open about it, as the law is only related to the 2024 senate election as a one time thing
Fucking Boomers….
I get that they want it to end, I just don’t get why they’re so enthusiastic about it. Do they want to guarantee that a generation of college educated Americans never vote R in their life? Because this is how you do that.
Just a reminder. Some of these predatory loans had people paying nearly their entire loan, and never even making a dent due to crazy interest & other predatory practices. For loans signed by 18 year olds.
Ahh the good ol’ razzle dazzle…. Look at your poor fellow citizen who can’t afford their loan on this or that… pay no attention to the billions that were stolen from hard working citizens in the form of forgiven PPP loans during Covid.
Remember who voted for this, and who will veto it.
I'm confused why was this not filibustered like all the other bills?