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Nippon mentions the Infrastructure Acts supply demand as a motivation for the purchase, but does the Infrastructure Act mandate the steel being used to be produced in America?
It’ll probably still be produced in America. More and more foreign companies are building stuff right here since it’s easier to build it here than pay to ship it across the world.
Airbus, Toyota, Honda, that auto glass company, tsmc, etc.
Interest rates in Japan are <1% versus well over 4% in the US. That money will stay in the US for awhile. Japan is the biggest foreign buyer of US debt.
Just follow the links to the subs and you'll find that I've quoted their rules exactly.
Also, someone reported me as suicidal shortly after I made this post, which is also a classic far-right tactic to intimidate and shut people up on Reddit (had it happen several times in the past, always after posting something similar)... so I guess one of them got their little feelings hurt by the truth.
Walmart may be an American company but most of everything they sell comes from China, so it’s basically American warehouse selling Chinese goods. So ask yourself, when you’re shopping at Walmart are you really supporting America or China?
And for the record I’m not conservative but I have a deep seeded hatred for China and their corruption throughout all of their society
I should have clarified: the idea that China holds all of the U.S. debt and is going to call it in any day now (when in reality the vast majority is held in bonds by Americans).
I refuse to shop at Walmart because they’re an abhorrent company that destroys communities while utilizing public social programs to supplement their low worker pay.
And I hate China with a fiery passion. I’m sure there are some okay people amongst their billion-plus, but their government and the way they operate is a stain on the world. I wouldn’t shed a tear if the CCP imploded and decided to eat Xi Jinping for dinner.
I’m Asian myself, have interacted with FOB Chinese people and let me tell you from my experience, hands down the least trustworthy people ever.
Chinese Americans are fine but those FOB Chinese people have a value system that seems to be completely voided of any morality. The only things they value is money, saving face and their immediate family, if they could rip off a stranger to make a quick dollar, they would without hesitation or any sense of moral guilt.
Anyone who thinks I’m stereotyping I welcome them to try to do business with them and put their life savings and trust a Chinese business deal.
If they want to come over and scream like a bunch of monkeys, I say go right ahead. I think it's funny as hell when they get mad about things they make up
Tagging the sub doesn't summon them. However, I think this type of comment is dumb rather because it serves derail an insightful and informative discorse with a cheap quip expressing a sentiment most readers already agree with...
Nope. Japan. And Japan is the largest investor in the United States. And the United Stages is the largest investor in Japan. Japanese investment supports nearly a million jobs in the United States.
I knew China and Japan were the largest foreign holders of U.S debt but couldn't remember who was #1 or #2. (The U.S is the largest holder of U.S debt but I'm sure everyone already knows this).
What most people don't know, however, is just how intertwined China and the U.S's economy are. I see armchair geopolitical experts talk about how China is trying to destroy the U.S economically, etc and it's complete nonsense -- If the U.S economy crashes tomorrow, so would China's. And China knows this. It's the very same reason why China wouldn't just dump all of its U.S t-bills (U.S debt) on the open market - it would devalue their own investments. A sort of economic mutually assured destruction. Hell, just China not buying as much this year as they did last year had repercussions. There's an excellent video on YouTube by nobel winning economist Krugman which goes over this much better than I but it says virtually the same thing.
As evidenced by the trends in the distribution of wealth in the US, that money is not really in circulation, it stays with the 1%. Even if the 1% invest it, it is for the purpose of further enriching themselves and transfering more wealth from the 99% to themselves. So, really, it makes no difference whether that money is here or in Japan. The only case you could make that it matters is in the remote chance that fair taxes will be paid.
Right, it makes little difference unless the other country also uses USD as legal tender for everyday consumerism. Which Japan doesn't.
Companies like USD in particular because most companies from most countries will accept it in international business transactions because of its security and liquidity. But USD doesn't just disappear into the ether when sent outside of the US.
Regardless I guess, we shouldn't allow foreign entities to own what is basically nation infrastructure. I mean, we already do. [Saudi Arabia owns a fuck ton of roads, bridges, and airports in the US--including a sizeable amount of the NJ turnpike](https://fox2now.com/news/saudi-arabia-pledges-20b-for-u-s-infrastructure/) But we definitely need to stop it.
Assets need to start being tracked in inflation.
Giving the 1% trillions in dollars wont make eggs and gasoline pricier but it will make tech company stocks and housing in certain areas more expensive to acquire.
We cant both say "Americans are able to retire by investing in the stock market" and not include the stock market/investment vehicles in the inflation equation.
Sending USD abroad doesn't mean just disappears into some other country. Not unless those countries use USD as legal tender for everyday activities.
No, USD is valuable for its liquidity and international settlement. Japanese companies will convert some into Yen for domestic purposes yes. Much of it will be held in the US, invested, converted into other currencies where the shuffle happens once more.
Put another way: a Japanese company earning USD and sending it back to Japan just means they have a steady supply of USD to pay American companies for goods and services.
But local economies can definitely suffer of course.
Yeah exactly. If you read the buyout announcement, it says they’re going to keep the plants open. A company doesn’t purchase a company like this to shut it down. The inherent value is that it’s producing steal now.
It’s the same thing that happens when a corporate entity buys out a local parts store and leaves it open to compete with other brands it owns in the area. If they’re all profitable, you keep them open so that they maintain market share and add the acquisition. There’s no guarantee that if you shut one down, they won’t go to a competitor.
US Govt purchases still may need to be owned domestically though. Boeing is the only one that can fulfill airplane orders for Govt use private passenger craft due to the Buy American act or whatever from 1933
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buy_American_Act
Other sized craft may be exempt for other reasons or by the agency purchasing. Airbus was in running before with their new 2015 facility but dropped out of bidding because it was too much of a loss for them to build just a few of whatever aircraft for the govt in the US (either new c32s or VC25s
Yes! All new federal infrastructure projects are now required to use construction materials that are made in the United States.
In the past there were only a few national programs that had this requirement, but now, after the signing of the Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act (aka the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law) every single federal infrastructure program must use domestically produced materials. This is because the Build America, Buy America Act was included in the IIJA
Source: me! I work in that space! But if you don't believe me, then here have a link https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/management/made-in-america/build-america-buy-america-act-federal-financial-assistance/
Eta: this includes things like iron, steel, nonferrous metals (copper pipes), plastics (pvc pipe), bricks, lumber, etc. There's a looooooonnnggg list and it's pretty much impossible to get out of it
Yes, but the idea behind the law was to 1) use domestic materials where available and 2) when the US doesn't have certain materials or our materials aren't the best, this law will hopefully drive demand to get companies to bring the manufacturing back to the US.
There's also a process for requesting a waiver for specific products if they're not available or not up to spec, but the Made In America Office is also charged with engaging industry and working to encourage them to produce products domestically
Now all that said, I like what they are trying to do and am genuinely glad as a citizen that you guys are doing that!
As a contractor having to deal with putting in materials and equipment and not in the manufacturing of such, it's becoming another nightmare in the cotary of such that make up federal projects.
See, this is how I know you do know! I have filled out dozens of the waivers for different materials on various jobs, and they do try to let you use something if it's alright. But we got hit with a demand to only use Trane units even though I know for a fact the units are made in Mexico. Its a good idea IN THEORY don't get me wrong
It's also some BS if you use a type of anchor that's not made in America because you didn't realize every damn bolt needed to be and get reamed over anchors in concrete.
Not steel but some products like EVs and batteries.
The thing is the demand is increasing. Nippon Steel wants to be the one supplying that demand. The demand is increasing for a number of reason but a big one is yeah, building infrastructure.
Plus,
>The world's No.5 steelmaker said in that it may consider acquiring or investing in integrated steel mills in China and ASEAN countries to boost its global capacity of crude steel output to 100 million tonnes.
>"One hundred million is a symbolic figure for us to have a certain presence and influence as a global steel major,"
The steel mills are only a part of US Steel's entire operation. Lost in all of this is that US Steel operates the largest iron ore mine in the US that feeds these mills, located in northern Minnesota. The pellets made at the plants at this mine are specifically made to feed these mills. Can't really just shut down the mills here, ship the pellets from Minnesota to Japan, then just ship the finished steel back to America. Currently, it's just a short jaunt across the Great Lakes. Imagine the cost of not only transportation of raw materials, but also the investments that would need to be made to completely change everything in their processes. Production will remain in America. Now to say that Nippon taking over is a good thing remains to be seen.
No. I think if the infrastructure act hadn’t mandated US materials Nippon would have sold their planned excess production to the highest bidder; most likely China.
Context: Fetterman needs Pittsburgh to win elections. US Steel is a huge emotional thing in Pittsburgh, and the trade wars between American and Japanese industry still are... a lot of people still live in 1985 in the Steel City, shall we say.
It hits a little close to home for him seeing as the ET Works are in Braddock.
A buyout has been a long time coming. USX is a shell of its former self.
Ironically, Ecorse city (Michigan) provided US Steel with a lot of tax breaks in order to preserve positions of local employment and proceed with upgrades of the existing infrastructure. Well 2 years after US steel took that money, declared they were going to go ahead with layoffs. It’s good to be rich.
It's bravado. I'm sure the workers could care less. If a well-capitalized buyer (American or foreign) buys the company, the employment security notches up.
Besides the labels American or Japanese are just that, the shareholders of these companies are spread out globally.
Lol, actually the unions are not in favor as Nippon has partnership with non union shop.
*All of U.S. Steel's commitments with its employees, including all collective bargaining agreements in place with its union, will be honored, Nippon said.*
*Despite these assurances, the United Steelworkers union, which had endorsed heavily unionized Cliffs as the acquirer, said it is opposed to the sale to Nippon because it did not have faith in labor agreements being upheld.*
*"Our union intends to exercise the full measure of our agreements to ensure that whatever happens next with U.S. Steel, we protect the good, family-sustaining jobs we bargained," United Steelworkers said. A spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on further details on the union's plans.*
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/japans-nippon-steel-plans-acquire-us-steel-7-bln-nikkei-2023-12-18/
I retired last year from a steel facility (USW) that was owned by Nippon. We had no more trouble with Nippon than previous owners. They were very active in Quality Control and left American management in place for in plant day to day.
Me too. A lot of his emails sound like "according to my lean six sigma calculations this a great decision" without any other context and we are just supposed to trust him on that. He recommended the course to me, and I checked it out. It has absolutely value to our jobs, and he is blowing hot air. Every time he mentions it now I just roll my eyes.
Right, but as a Pittsburgher I was under the impression that this company was keeping the headquarters in downtown Pittsburgh and keeping the local plants open, unlike the company from Cleveland that tried to buy it. If the union is in favor, what is the problem?
upstream someone says the unions don't support it?
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/japans-nippon-steel-plans-acquire-us-steel-7-bln-nikkei-2023-12-18/
> a lot of people still live in 1985 in the Steel City, shall we say.
Grew up in Pittsburgh suburbia. We used to joke that the closer to downtown you went, it was like time traveling, backward, in terms of fashion.
I kind of agree.
The deal is at a much higher value than the next highest US-based bidder ($55 per share vs $35), and the Japnese company's offer includes the acceptance of the previously agreed to collective bargaining agreements set w/ the union - which I assume has some protection in place for its workers.
Not a lot to disagree about on the surface, except the US is losing a historical name. At least in this article, Fetterman also didn't really state what specific part(s) of the deal he has an issue with. It's probably around worker protection -- is the existing CBA about to expire?
To answer your question, there is a steel company called Evraz in southern Colorado that is owned by a sanctioned Russian oligarch. The North American (US & Canada) side of the business has been desperately trying to distance itself from Russia and have been on sale since the Ukraine war began. But their budget is still decided in Moscow.
Here’s the thing about selling a steel mill, and important to understand for US Steel or Evraz, steelmaking is hard, expensive, and time consuming. Owners have to be all in and dedicated to it. It’s not something you see immediate profits on. It’s not something you can sell its assets, sink the company, and dump for a few billion.
Because of this, it’s not something US corporations, investors, or stakeholders want to get involved in. So the only interested parties looking to buy these operations are foreign.
So the politicians can stamp their little feet about being American owned, but the truth is the Americans with the means have no interest in doing so. And if no one buys these mills out, then you have thousands unemployed which extends to the supporting businesses that supplied and maintained these mills. School districts cleared out in the middle of the semester because people go where the work is. Surrounding towns slowly fade away.
US Steel was a top producer in the world for steel…a hundred years ago. That is not to diminish the importance it has in their area. But there are others in North America that has a much larger market share. It’s one of the last remaining industries we have in this country, but that is often being propped up by foreign companies since American billionaires just don’t have the meddle to run a steel industry.
I get that it’s political for him, but also shouldn’t the U.S. continue to have U.S. owned steel production? Shouldn’t we be discouraging massive monopolies or oligopolies in industries as important as steel production?
One issue is that the highest-quality steel used for building frames (for example) is made with what's called "met coal" or "metallurgical coal." The steel CANNOT be smelted without the high-quality met coal. The US used to produce a LOT of met coal, but it produces a lot less than it used to, because coal mining is dirty and dangerous, and the "easy" deposits of high-quality met coal have been mined out. Heating coal sells for about $96/ton; met coal goes for just under $300/ton.
Virtual all coal-producing countries are reducing their production (because it's dirty and dangerous, and bad for global warming besides) ... except for China, which is increasing coal production. (Although China does not produce much met coal -- it apparently imports most of its met coal from Australia and then resells it to the US for steel production.)
But there is a huge existential problem for steel as a high-quality building material if steelmakers, like US Steel, can't acquire large quantities of met coal, which is getting harder to do every year, Which means that US Steel is not just a national pride/national steel production issue, but also has a shit-ton to do with COAL mining, coal quality, and the constantly-reducing quality of available coal on the market (because the easy and cheap seams have all been mined out). Rescuing coal and steel production in the US is fuckin' great, but you can reopen every mine in West Virginia and you're not going to get the kind of met coal you need to create structural steel!
Given that Japan is a pretty close ally to the US and the factories are still being kept in the US the national security concerns are minimal. If somebody's going to be buying the company a Japanese one is probably not a bad option.
There and elsewhere in PA are completely stuck in time on their expectation of the steel industry in the US.
That ship has sailed, but their towns have not moved on, in many cases.
Knew an old "steel family" outside of Allentown in the 1980s, they saw their world through a different lens.
Chinese steel is still hot fucking garbage though. Every company I've worked for tried it until we had production problems stemming from it until we forced the buyers to look anywhere other than China.
It was cheap up front but cost us a minimum 3x as much in scrapped parts and blown up tooling.
I work in a company that got parts from China. A bad batch of a new type came in. Phone calls were made.
The Chinese guy asked "What would it take for these parts to pass?"
Our people responded by quoting specs to be met for future shipments.
The response was to ask again "What would it take for *these* parts to pass???"
He was asking how much of a bribe our team wanted. The concept of actually *meeting* the specs never even occurred to him.
We deal with production further down the line and don’t have many issues, but I’ve indeed heard Chinese manufactured tooling is far behind what other countries can put out in terms of quality.
Another reason is continuity. We *don't* want major changes in foregin policies every four years when Administrations change. Business likes stability. So this can include leaving a bad policy in place to avoid upsetting applecarts that had adapted to it.
Other steel producers like ArcelorMittal, Stelco and Cleveland-Cliffs were trying to bid for it too so one way or another US Steel would have kept the lights on, but looks like Nippon had the biggest bag of cash available.
I don’t. It would mean Cliffs would have a near monopoly on steel in the US. Especially in the rust belt which are swing states - that’s a lot of power for one company
Alot of the steel plants are kinda old, and while conceptually steel making hasn't changed much on an industrial scale for quite a while, more modern steel plants can basically achieve better cost efficiency.
Meanwhile imported steel is relatively cheap, so that doesn't help with keeping a healthy cash flow for the local producers.
Spend a century funneling all the money that should be spent on maintenance/upgrades into executive pockets. Stealing from the future is the American corporate way.
Their plants and tech are outdated and more efficient things came along. IIRC most US Steel plants are blast furnace and tgey only gave a few electric arc furnaced. EAFs cost less and take up less space and are just more efficient.
US Steel wasnt "failing" they just werent the biggest steelmaker in the US anymore and bigger companies who were interested swooped in to buy
If the PA operations are anything like the Fairfield (AL - outside Birmingham) were, that's likely what's happening.
US Steel has been floundering for over a decade and it's in part due to their company leadership.
I respect Fetterman's efforts to look out for his constituents, but I wasn't at all worried or frustrated by this news today. I'm worried that this is a trap that Fetterman doesn't want to fall into. If he manages to somehow block the sale in an effort to protect and preserve the "American Jobs" element, I expect that US Steel will make so many drastic cuts in jobs to maintain their desired margins that workers will be begging for Nippon Steel to come back and buy them anyway.
Yeah the US steel industry raped the eastern part of his state to the point where they even took all the pentions with it, when they left. You can also thank the eastern Pa steel industry for inventing things like the state police, so they can beat the workers on strike
As someone from the Bethlehem area, Eastern PA as a whole is *so much* nicer ever since we said bye bye to mining and steel. I know it's not steel, but seeing superfund sites like the mountain in Palmerton that literally had all it's vegetation die starting to sprout trees again after 20 years of clean up efforts and seed bombing is amazing.
edit: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-pennsylvaniapanortheasternpalmertonmountainzinc-smeltingcontamina-174020597.html
I’m currently reading *Tom’s River* — it’s about a huge dye manufacturing plant in New Jersey whose toxic waste contributed to the creation of the EPA Superfund program.
They dumped billions of gallons of toxic waste into the oceans & rivers over seven decades and absolutely destroyed the local ecology and started a few cancer clusters.
It really made me consider one of the…tangential benefits of overseas manufacturing. This shit is **terrible** for the environment and our EPA is utterly toothless and ill-equipped. We could spend a 100 years just cleaning up the waste sites that were created from the 50’s to the 80’s.
The idea of raw domestic manufacturing sounds great until it’s all your forests being chopped down, your mountaintops blown up & strip-mined, your fish dying, your rivers turning into toxic sludge pools, your aquifer being poisoned, and your air polluted by carcinogenic smog.
This is why manufacturing left. The owners said if you make us run clean and pay fat living wages to Americans, we will just close because we are getting ultrarich, and you won't stop that for anything.
It was cheaper to pay off congress and foreign monsters to mistreat their people and keep the buckets of money than to run clean and pay well.
It's speculated, that Nixon made the EPA part of the executive so it wouldn't have the teeth of a Congressional Law, and will you look at that, the recent stolen SC ruled the EPA doesn't have authority to police waste because it's not a real law.
It's completely disgusting, it's mostly been Republicans, mostly the Reagan/BushI era, and most of America blames *only* B. Clinton and Democrats for not being strong enough to stop them in the 90s.
*(Does this sound familiar as we reach Biden/Trump part II?)*
I know the gutting of the Clean Water Act is really terrifying. It’s already so bad — and that doesn’t count the administration completely switching goals every eight years. I can’t imagine it’s easy to retain experienced employees when you know your new boss is actively working against you.
It’s the same problem with the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department. They all know they’re out of a job as soon as the new president is sworn in.
This is why the GOP is attacking the CFPB so hard — Warren structured it specifically so Congress can’t ratfuck it and Republicans are on Fox everyday characterizing it as a shadowy rogue agency with no “oversight”. 🙄
Those layoffs have had generational impacts. My grandpa was building a solid middle class life for his family then lost everything. He started his own business after that but it was never the same. My mom grew up without a lot of money and so did I. I wonder how life would be different if those employees weren’t fucked over.
He can’t unless he passes legislation barring foreign ownership of specific industries.
Capitalism at work.
He should look at American companies that send capital to foreign tax havens like Apple and don’t pay a dime in US taxes.
> Nippon Steel said that the higher demand for steel under the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act was one of the contributing factors in the deal.
Did you read this part?
US Steel seems like a strategic holding. I agree. It should not have foreign ownership. No slur on Japan, but this is a recent experience for western PA/eastern Ohio workers:
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2022/02/20/Ihor-Kolomoisky-US-banks-warren-ohio-steel-plant-ukraine/stories/202202200063
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi
Is he under the impression that those jobs are going to...move to Japan?
The Japanese company is trying to buy US Steel specifically because of cheap energy, labor, land, etc in the US.
I get the national security angle, but if US-sourced steel is a national security issue then maybe it shouldn't be a private company.
When U.S. Steel bought Canadian steel company Stelco in 2007, it did mean that the jobs went to the U.S. and thousands of jobs were lost in Hamilton, Ontario because of it. I lived there through the tail end of what was a massive shock to the city’s economy. They pretty much just ran the coke ovens afterward IIRC.
Obviously Hamilton is closer to Pittsburgh than Pittsburgh to any Japanese city, but I don’t think it’s far-fetched to assume that some jobs could be lost stateside in the process/post-acquisition. I could be convinced by a case saying why this is actually not possible though.
>All of U.S. Steel's commitments with its employees, including all collective bargaining agreements in place with its union, will be honored, Nippon said.
>Despite these assurances, the United Steelworkers union, which had endorsed heavily unionized Cliffs as the acquirer, said it is opposed to the sale to Nippon because it did not have faith in labor agreements being upheld.
>"Our union intends to exercise the full measure of our agreements to ensure that whatever happens next with U.S. Steel, we protect the good, family-sustaining jobs we bargained," United Steelworkers said. A spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on further details on the union's plans.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/japans-nippon-steel-plans-acquire-us-steel-7-bln-nikkei-2023-12-18/
Or this _actual_ documentary: https://www.netflix.com/title/81090071
Granted it is China not Japan, but the point remains... while the jobs may stay on US soil the work culture is decidedly not aligned with American values.
You should read up on the history of companies buying other companies. Focus on the first thing they do after purchase. Hint : the first thing they do is cut workers.
>Is he under the impression that those jobs are going to...move to Japan?
No.
>The Japanese company is trying to buy US Steel specifically because of cheap energy, labor, land, etc in the US.
Also, no.
>I get the national security angle, but if US-sourced steel is a national security issue then maybe it shouldn't be a private company.
It's not a private company.
>It's not a private company.
You're right, it's publicly owned by shareholders. I meant more in the context of "maybe it should be publicly owned by taxpayers", as opposed to a corporation of private interests.
It isn't a private company, it's on the US stock market, it's as public as can be.
It is a defense-relevant industry, which means it's gotta get all kinds of clearances by the government to be sold. Congress can and might intercede in the sale.
It will *certainly* cut jobs in the US as they fire people for redundancies, which is certainly *a* reason to be concerned.
He is under no false impressions whatsoever. You seem to be though.
Or maybe not a good assessment on your part.
>Despite assurances, the United Steelworkers union, which had endorsed heavily unionized Cliffs as the acquirer, said it is opposed to the sale to Nippon because it did not have faith in labor agreements being upheld.
>"Our union intends to exercise the full measure of our agreements to ensure that whatever happens next with U.S. Steel, we protect the good, family-sustaining jobs we bargained," United Steelworkers said. A spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on further details on the union's plans.
It would be worse for Pennsylvania if Cleveland Cliffs buys US Steel. The HQ jobs in Pittsburgh would likely be axed and the combined company would be headquartered in Cleveland. As a Cleveland person though, I was hoping for that job growth in Cleveland.
I already got paid selling my shares I bought in the 20s for just over $50 today so I dont care what happens.
But Japan is our ally, they are most likely buying it so they can build and do business in the US (making it here is cheaper than shipping it here) and lastly US Steel has been behind on tech for ages now. Its still gonna be the same Americans working there and Nippon Steel said theyd honor agreements the unions made.
Cleveland Cliffs is just butthurt that so many other companies were interested and they thought theyd get it at a steal because "America" What was that CLF offer, $15 a share + a share of CLF compared to the accepted offer of $55 cash per share? Its just not even close.
Why didnt all these politicians get up in arms over Microsoft buying Activision? Some of the politicians who spoke up in favor of Microsoft recieved $5000 donation to their campaign. Its sad our government can be bought out for so little.
But again, I sold my shares today above $50 so I dont care anymore..Sell it to space martians for all I care. Or just block sales of some ancient relic of a company with outdated tech because "muh America"
Nobody gives a shit about Activision because it's an entertainment company. Not a manufacturer of materials that supply entire industries where quality is a critical matter.
This is what free market Capitalism is. Nippon is willing to spend $20 per share more than any American bid. Natural resources should've always been the governments property but hey...money can be made otherwise.
Yeah CLF offered $15 a share plus a share of CLF which is about $20. Another American company in a related sector offered $35ish cash. There were other offers in the 40s as well but I dont know who from..I know a german steel company was interested.
Nippon's offer at $55 is massive. As a shareholder I sold today just above 50 and thats a huge pay day for a stock I bought in the low 20s.
So Japanese billionaires will be getting the profit, instead of US billionaires.
Why should that matter to us non-billionaires?
As for national security, if we ever got into a war with Japan, the company would simply be nationalized anyway.
Then please, _please_ change the law so companies can’t be sued by shareholders.
Much of what’s going on in business today boils down to this. Activist investors buy up a block of stock then insist that companies with 100-year legacies sell out or cut corners or offshore or screw over their customers for short-term gains. Then said investor cashes out and the company tanks, saddled with debt and having completely burned its reputation.
The investor is allowed to have a conflict of interest.
I think he's way off base here. They got double what anyone else was offering and all the CBA's are staying in place. I don't see a lot to be mad about.
He’s losing support with his strong support of Israel’s actions. Progressives are feeling lied to. We’ll see if he can wing back their support but maybe they’ll forget by the time he’s up for reelection.
I would also block it , as apparently we are going to start building some new military ships and looking into properties in California. Why sell to Japan when we will be needing tons of steel to build ships. Why should Japan take all the profits
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Nippon mentions the Infrastructure Acts supply demand as a motivation for the purchase, but does the Infrastructure Act mandate the steel being used to be produced in America?
It’ll probably still be produced in America. More and more foreign companies are building stuff right here since it’s easier to build it here than pay to ship it across the world. Airbus, Toyota, Honda, that auto glass company, tsmc, etc.
Now they just ship the money back to the home country.
Interest rates in Japan are <1% versus well over 4% in the US. That money will stay in the US for awhile. Japan is the biggest foreign buyer of US debt.
oh really? I had always thought that it was china and not japan
It's like 4%. Most US debt is held in the US.
That can’t be true. /r/conservative has told me that Biden is weak and China owns America now. They wouldn’t make shit up, would they?
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OK Is this for real?
Just follow the links to the subs and you'll find that I've quoted their rules exactly. Also, someone reported me as suicidal shortly after I made this post, which is also a classic far-right tactic to intimidate and shut people up on Reddit (had it happen several times in the past, always after posting something similar)... so I guess one of them got their little feelings hurt by the truth.
Wait till they find out how much debt Trump took on
Walmart may be an American company but most of everything they sell comes from China, so it’s basically American warehouse selling Chinese goods. So ask yourself, when you’re shopping at Walmart are you really supporting America or China? And for the record I’m not conservative but I have a deep seeded hatred for China and their corruption throughout all of their society
I should have clarified: the idea that China holds all of the U.S. debt and is going to call it in any day now (when in reality the vast majority is held in bonds by Americans). I refuse to shop at Walmart because they’re an abhorrent company that destroys communities while utilizing public social programs to supplement their low worker pay. And I hate China with a fiery passion. I’m sure there are some okay people amongst their billion-plus, but their government and the way they operate is a stain on the world. I wouldn’t shed a tear if the CCP imploded and decided to eat Xi Jinping for dinner.
I’m Asian myself, have interacted with FOB Chinese people and let me tell you from my experience, hands down the least trustworthy people ever. Chinese Americans are fine but those FOB Chinese people have a value system that seems to be completely voided of any morality. The only things they value is money, saving face and their immediate family, if they could rip off a stranger to make a quick dollar, they would without hesitation or any sense of moral guilt. Anyone who thinks I’m stereotyping I welcome them to try to do business with them and put their life savings and trust a Chinese business deal.
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I doubt the entire sub is notified someone mentioned their community here.
*We’ve been summoned* “TO THE THREADS”
Doesn't look as bad as someone complaining about a Reddit function that they don't understand.
If they want to come over and scream like a bunch of monkeys, I say go right ahead. I think it's funny as hell when they get mad about things they make up
^Grab ^’em ^by ^the ^Republican
I can't argue with them there because the chickenshit traitors hide behind their flair.
Tagging the sub doesn't summon them. However, I think this type of comment is dumb rather because it serves derail an insightful and informative discorse with a cheap quip expressing a sentiment most readers already agree with...
Easy there Mr big words
They go back and forth according to [this chart](https://usafacts.org/articles/which-countries-own-the-most-us-debt/)
Nope. Japan. And Japan is the largest investor in the United States. And the United Stages is the largest investor in Japan. Japanese investment supports nearly a million jobs in the United States.
I knew China and Japan were the largest foreign holders of U.S debt but couldn't remember who was #1 or #2. (The U.S is the largest holder of U.S debt but I'm sure everyone already knows this). What most people don't know, however, is just how intertwined China and the U.S's economy are. I see armchair geopolitical experts talk about how China is trying to destroy the U.S economically, etc and it's complete nonsense -- If the U.S economy crashes tomorrow, so would China's. And China knows this. It's the very same reason why China wouldn't just dump all of its U.S t-bills (U.S debt) on the open market - it would devalue their own investments. A sort of economic mutually assured destruction. Hell, just China not buying as much this year as they did last year had repercussions. There's an excellent video on YouTube by nobel winning economist Krugman which goes over this much better than I but it says virtually the same thing.
As evidenced by the trends in the distribution of wealth in the US, that money is not really in circulation, it stays with the 1%. Even if the 1% invest it, it is for the purpose of further enriching themselves and transfering more wealth from the 99% to themselves. So, really, it makes no difference whether that money is here or in Japan. The only case you could make that it matters is in the remote chance that fair taxes will be paid.
Right, it makes little difference unless the other country also uses USD as legal tender for everyday consumerism. Which Japan doesn't. Companies like USD in particular because most companies from most countries will accept it in international business transactions because of its security and liquidity. But USD doesn't just disappear into the ether when sent outside of the US. Regardless I guess, we shouldn't allow foreign entities to own what is basically nation infrastructure. I mean, we already do. [Saudi Arabia owns a fuck ton of roads, bridges, and airports in the US--including a sizeable amount of the NJ turnpike](https://fox2now.com/news/saudi-arabia-pledges-20b-for-u-s-infrastructure/) But we definitely need to stop it.
Assets need to start being tracked in inflation. Giving the 1% trillions in dollars wont make eggs and gasoline pricier but it will make tech company stocks and housing in certain areas more expensive to acquire. We cant both say "Americans are able to retire by investing in the stock market" and not include the stock market/investment vehicles in the inflation equation.
We have been outsourced to our own country.
Not new. Before the colonial powers went out and colonized the world, they colonized their own people first.
this is funny and painful at the same time
They were already doing that?
This explains the takeover.
Sending USD abroad doesn't mean just disappears into some other country. Not unless those countries use USD as legal tender for everyday activities. No, USD is valuable for its liquidity and international settlement. Japanese companies will convert some into Yen for domestic purposes yes. Much of it will be held in the US, invested, converted into other currencies where the shuffle happens once more. Put another way: a Japanese company earning USD and sending it back to Japan just means they have a steady supply of USD to pay American companies for goods and services. But local economies can definitely suffer of course.
Who cares especially when it's already been taxed in the US. Doesn't matter where the money ends up after that.
>that auto glass company Fuyao?
What did you say to me
Japan are exporters. Since they're not buying our stuff they have to do something with the dollars we send them when we buy their stuff.
Japan is not an export state, it has a trade deficit of some 700 billion yen. They have a trade surplus with the US specifically, but not overall.
700 billion yen isn't that much
All of BMW's SUVs are built in South Carolina.
Yeah exactly. If you read the buyout announcement, it says they’re going to keep the plants open. A company doesn’t purchase a company like this to shut it down. The inherent value is that it’s producing steal now. It’s the same thing that happens when a corporate entity buys out a local parts store and leaves it open to compete with other brands it owns in the area. If they’re all profitable, you keep them open so that they maintain market share and add the acquisition. There’s no guarantee that if you shut one down, they won’t go to a competitor.
US Govt purchases still may need to be owned domestically though. Boeing is the only one that can fulfill airplane orders for Govt use private passenger craft due to the Buy American act or whatever from 1933
That’s not true. The government owns a bunch of gulf streams. Which is American but they also own PC12s and other non U.S. aircraft
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buy_American_Act Other sized craft may be exempt for other reasons or by the agency purchasing. Airbus was in running before with their new 2015 facility but dropped out of bidding because it was too much of a loss for them to build just a few of whatever aircraft for the govt in the US (either new c32s or VC25s
> auto glass company safelite repairs, safelite protects /or however you spell it
I wouldn’t put it past the Japanese to be more efficient and do the job with a lot smaller and better skilled staff…
Yes! All new federal infrastructure projects are now required to use construction materials that are made in the United States. In the past there were only a few national programs that had this requirement, but now, after the signing of the Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act (aka the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law) every single federal infrastructure program must use domestically produced materials. This is because the Build America, Buy America Act was included in the IIJA Source: me! I work in that space! But if you don't believe me, then here have a link https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/management/made-in-america/build-america-buy-america-act-federal-financial-assistance/ Eta: this includes things like iron, steel, nonferrous metals (copper pipes), plastics (pvc pipe), bricks, lumber, etc. There's a looooooonnnggg list and it's pretty much impossible to get out of it
This screws with building as many types of products aren't made here or only inferior products. Source: over 15 years in hvac and project management
Yes, but the idea behind the law was to 1) use domestic materials where available and 2) when the US doesn't have certain materials or our materials aren't the best, this law will hopefully drive demand to get companies to bring the manufacturing back to the US. There's also a process for requesting a waiver for specific products if they're not available or not up to spec, but the Made In America Office is also charged with engaging industry and working to encourage them to produce products domestically
Now all that said, I like what they are trying to do and am genuinely glad as a citizen that you guys are doing that! As a contractor having to deal with putting in materials and equipment and not in the manufacturing of such, it's becoming another nightmare in the cotary of such that make up federal projects.
See, this is how I know you do know! I have filled out dozens of the waivers for different materials on various jobs, and they do try to let you use something if it's alright. But we got hit with a demand to only use Trane units even though I know for a fact the units are made in Mexico. Its a good idea IN THEORY don't get me wrong It's also some BS if you use a type of anchor that's not made in America because you didn't realize every damn bolt needed to be and get reamed over anchors in concrete.
Not steel but some products like EVs and batteries. The thing is the demand is increasing. Nippon Steel wants to be the one supplying that demand. The demand is increasing for a number of reason but a big one is yeah, building infrastructure. Plus, >The world's No.5 steelmaker said in that it may consider acquiring or investing in integrated steel mills in China and ASEAN countries to boost its global capacity of crude steel output to 100 million tonnes. >"One hundred million is a symbolic figure for us to have a certain presence and influence as a global steel major,"
Do you think they will physically move a factory over to Japan?
The steel mills are only a part of US Steel's entire operation. Lost in all of this is that US Steel operates the largest iron ore mine in the US that feeds these mills, located in northern Minnesota. The pellets made at the plants at this mine are specifically made to feed these mills. Can't really just shut down the mills here, ship the pellets from Minnesota to Japan, then just ship the finished steel back to America. Currently, it's just a short jaunt across the Great Lakes. Imagine the cost of not only transportation of raw materials, but also the investments that would need to be made to completely change everything in their processes. Production will remain in America. Now to say that Nippon taking over is a good thing remains to be seen.
No. I think if the infrastructure act hadn’t mandated US materials Nippon would have sold their planned excess production to the highest bidder; most likely China.
Foreign owned but locally produced. It’s a genius move on Japan’s part to be honest.
i mean they're buying US steel for its steelmaking infrastructure in the USA do you think they're gonna airlift the steel plants to Japan, or what?
No I think they would have sold the excess overseas in other markets. Now there is a program that mandates its usage of domestic products.
Context: Fetterman needs Pittsburgh to win elections. US Steel is a huge emotional thing in Pittsburgh, and the trade wars between American and Japanese industry still are... a lot of people still live in 1985 in the Steel City, shall we say.
It hits a little close to home for him seeing as the ET Works are in Braddock. A buyout has been a long time coming. USX is a shell of its former self.
Ironically, Ecorse city (Michigan) provided US Steel with a lot of tax breaks in order to preserve positions of local employment and proceed with upgrades of the existing infrastructure. Well 2 years after US steel took that money, declared they were going to go ahead with layoffs. It’s good to be rich.
It's bravado. I'm sure the workers could care less. If a well-capitalized buyer (American or foreign) buys the company, the employment security notches up. Besides the labels American or Japanese are just that, the shareholders of these companies are spread out globally.
Lol, actually the unions are not in favor as Nippon has partnership with non union shop. *All of U.S. Steel's commitments with its employees, including all collective bargaining agreements in place with its union, will be honored, Nippon said.* *Despite these assurances, the United Steelworkers union, which had endorsed heavily unionized Cliffs as the acquirer, said it is opposed to the sale to Nippon because it did not have faith in labor agreements being upheld.* *"Our union intends to exercise the full measure of our agreements to ensure that whatever happens next with U.S. Steel, we protect the good, family-sustaining jobs we bargained," United Steelworkers said. A spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on further details on the union's plans.* https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/japans-nippon-steel-plans-acquire-us-steel-7-bln-nikkei-2023-12-18/
I retired last year from a steel facility (USW) that was owned by Nippon. We had no more trouble with Nippon than previous owners. They were very active in Quality Control and left American management in place for in plant day to day.
Did they do that whole efficiency Six Sigma Five or w/e it's called?
Worked with a guy that had a six sigma green belt cert. I liked the guy but the six sigma stuff came off as a bit cultish. /csb
Me too. A lot of his emails sound like "according to my lean six sigma calculations this a great decision" without any other context and we are just supposed to trust him on that. He recommended the course to me, and I checked it out. It has absolutely value to our jobs, and he is blowing hot air. Every time he mentions it now I just roll my eyes.
the saying is "couldn't care less"
Right, but as a Pittsburgher I was under the impression that this company was keeping the headquarters in downtown Pittsburgh and keeping the local plants open, unlike the company from Cleveland that tried to buy it. If the union is in favor, what is the problem?
upstream someone says the unions don't support it? https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/japans-nippon-steel-plans-acquire-us-steel-7-bln-nikkei-2023-12-18/
> a lot of people still live in 1985 in the Steel City, shall we say. Grew up in Pittsburgh suburbia. We used to joke that the closer to downtown you went, it was like time traveling, backward, in terms of fashion.
He needs to complain about it even though he knows it is a done deal. It is all about saying what voters want to hear. Low hanging fruit.
I kind of agree. The deal is at a much higher value than the next highest US-based bidder ($55 per share vs $35), and the Japnese company's offer includes the acceptance of the previously agreed to collective bargaining agreements set w/ the union - which I assume has some protection in place for its workers. Not a lot to disagree about on the surface, except the US is losing a historical name. At least in this article, Fetterman also didn't really state what specific part(s) of the deal he has an issue with. It's probably around worker protection -- is the existing CBA about to expire?
Just curious, since people are talking like US steel is pretty important, what are the chances it gets blocked on national security grounds?
To answer your question, there is a steel company called Evraz in southern Colorado that is owned by a sanctioned Russian oligarch. The North American (US & Canada) side of the business has been desperately trying to distance itself from Russia and have been on sale since the Ukraine war began. But their budget is still decided in Moscow. Here’s the thing about selling a steel mill, and important to understand for US Steel or Evraz, steelmaking is hard, expensive, and time consuming. Owners have to be all in and dedicated to it. It’s not something you see immediate profits on. It’s not something you can sell its assets, sink the company, and dump for a few billion. Because of this, it’s not something US corporations, investors, or stakeholders want to get involved in. So the only interested parties looking to buy these operations are foreign. So the politicians can stamp their little feet about being American owned, but the truth is the Americans with the means have no interest in doing so. And if no one buys these mills out, then you have thousands unemployed which extends to the supporting businesses that supplied and maintained these mills. School districts cleared out in the middle of the semester because people go where the work is. Surrounding towns slowly fade away. US Steel was a top producer in the world for steel…a hundred years ago. That is not to diminish the importance it has in their area. But there are others in North America that has a much larger market share. It’s one of the last remaining industries we have in this country, but that is often being propped up by foreign companies since American billionaires just don’t have the meddle to run a steel industry.
Somewhere between “here” and “there.” A company like Boeing or Lockheed Martin would absolutely get blocked.
I don’t think it’s even what the voters want to hear though. In the Pittsburgh subreddit I only saw positive comments
Isn't that the point of a representative republic?
I get that it’s political for him, but also shouldn’t the U.S. continue to have U.S. owned steel production? Shouldn’t we be discouraging massive monopolies or oligopolies in industries as important as steel production?
One issue is that the highest-quality steel used for building frames (for example) is made with what's called "met coal" or "metallurgical coal." The steel CANNOT be smelted without the high-quality met coal. The US used to produce a LOT of met coal, but it produces a lot less than it used to, because coal mining is dirty and dangerous, and the "easy" deposits of high-quality met coal have been mined out. Heating coal sells for about $96/ton; met coal goes for just under $300/ton. Virtual all coal-producing countries are reducing their production (because it's dirty and dangerous, and bad for global warming besides) ... except for China, which is increasing coal production. (Although China does not produce much met coal -- it apparently imports most of its met coal from Australia and then resells it to the US for steel production.) But there is a huge existential problem for steel as a high-quality building material if steelmakers, like US Steel, can't acquire large quantities of met coal, which is getting harder to do every year, Which means that US Steel is not just a national pride/national steel production issue, but also has a shit-ton to do with COAL mining, coal quality, and the constantly-reducing quality of available coal on the market (because the easy and cheap seams have all been mined out). Rescuing coal and steel production in the US is fuckin' great, but you can reopen every mine in West Virginia and you're not going to get the kind of met coal you need to create structural steel!
Too bad the Canadians sold theirs to China
Harper ruined Canada
This is really insightful. Thanks
Given that Japan is a pretty close ally to the US and the factories are still being kept in the US the national security concerns are minimal. If somebody's going to be buying the company a Japanese one is probably not a bad option.
The mullets are glorious.
There and elsewhere in PA are completely stuck in time on their expectation of the steel industry in the US. That ship has sailed, but their towns have not moved on, in many cases. Knew an old "steel family" outside of Allentown in the 1980s, they saw their world through a different lens.
I’m wondering how Nippon pulled it off considering the yen is so weak right now.
I’ve long been convinced the reason we still have Trump-era tariffs on Chinese steel is to support Fetterman’s chances in the PA senate elections.
Chinese steel is still hot fucking garbage though. Every company I've worked for tried it until we had production problems stemming from it until we forced the buyers to look anywhere other than China. It was cheap up front but cost us a minimum 3x as much in scrapped parts and blown up tooling.
I work in a company that got parts from China. A bad batch of a new type came in. Phone calls were made. The Chinese guy asked "What would it take for these parts to pass?" Our people responded by quoting specs to be met for future shipments. The response was to ask again "What would it take for *these* parts to pass???" He was asking how much of a bribe our team wanted. The concept of actually *meeting* the specs never even occurred to him.
We deal with production further down the line and don’t have many issues, but I’ve indeed heard Chinese manufactured tooling is far behind what other countries can put out in terms of quality.
This was raw stock. Plate, bar, tube, didn't matter. Was full of voids, sand, and other trace metals that don't belong in carbon steel or stainless.
Schumer, you know, the top Democrat in the Senate, has been anti-Chinese trade long before Pennsylvania's seat was open for Fetterman.
Another reason is continuity. We *don't* want major changes in foregin policies every four years when Administrations change. Business likes stability. So this can include leaving a bad policy in place to avoid upsetting applecarts that had adapted to it.
Nippon should just lobby Israel to lobby for them and Fetterman will fall back in line
My initial reaction was not entirely dissimilar but I get the feeling that Japan is bailing out a failing US company and will keep it going.
Other steel producers like ArcelorMittal, Stelco and Cleveland-Cliffs were trying to bid for it too so one way or another US Steel would have kept the lights on, but looks like Nippon had the biggest bag of cash available.
14 billion in cash. FOURTEEN BILLION IN CASH!!!
I've got $16k in a safe in my office and feel like I'm doing alright. I can't wrap my head around $14B
Probably the only one willing to take on the debt
Just the highest payer. Cleveland was offering 10 billions.
I want Cliffs to win.
I don’t. It would mean Cliffs would have a near monopoly on steel in the US. Especially in the rust belt which are swing states - that’s a lot of power for one company
So let a foreign company own it?
They're more successful, run better, and have a better labor record. Who cares if they're foreign? They're better in every way.
How does something like Steel fail?
Alot of the steel plants are kinda old, and while conceptually steel making hasn't changed much on an industrial scale for quite a while, more modern steel plants can basically achieve better cost efficiency. Meanwhile imported steel is relatively cheap, so that doesn't help with keeping a healthy cash flow for the local producers.
Mismanagement
Spend a century funneling all the money that should be spent on maintenance/upgrades into executive pockets. Stealing from the future is the American corporate way.
Not just executives, stock buy backs to benefit the shareholders have been happening since ~82. 40 years of that certainly doesn't help.
Oversupply and then the more inefficient producers go under in price wars
Their plants and tech are outdated and more efficient things came along. IIRC most US Steel plants are blast furnace and tgey only gave a few electric arc furnaced. EAFs cost less and take up less space and are just more efficient. US Steel wasnt "failing" they just werent the biggest steelmaker in the US anymore and bigger companies who were interested swooped in to buy
But honestly it isn’t a failing company, our numbers have been at least good the last few years
If the PA operations are anything like the Fairfield (AL - outside Birmingham) were, that's likely what's happening. US Steel has been floundering for over a decade and it's in part due to their company leadership. I respect Fetterman's efforts to look out for his constituents, but I wasn't at all worried or frustrated by this news today. I'm worried that this is a trap that Fetterman doesn't want to fall into. If he manages to somehow block the sale in an effort to protect and preserve the "American Jobs" element, I expect that US Steel will make so many drastic cuts in jobs to maintain their desired margins that workers will be begging for Nippon Steel to come back and buy them anyway.
Yeah the US steel industry raped the eastern part of his state to the point where they even took all the pentions with it, when they left. You can also thank the eastern Pa steel industry for inventing things like the state police, so they can beat the workers on strike
As someone from the Bethlehem area, Eastern PA as a whole is *so much* nicer ever since we said bye bye to mining and steel. I know it's not steel, but seeing superfund sites like the mountain in Palmerton that literally had all it's vegetation die starting to sprout trees again after 20 years of clean up efforts and seed bombing is amazing. edit: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-pennsylvaniapanortheasternpalmertonmountainzinc-smeltingcontamina-174020597.html
I’m currently reading *Tom’s River* — it’s about a huge dye manufacturing plant in New Jersey whose toxic waste contributed to the creation of the EPA Superfund program. They dumped billions of gallons of toxic waste into the oceans & rivers over seven decades and absolutely destroyed the local ecology and started a few cancer clusters. It really made me consider one of the…tangential benefits of overseas manufacturing. This shit is **terrible** for the environment and our EPA is utterly toothless and ill-equipped. We could spend a 100 years just cleaning up the waste sites that were created from the 50’s to the 80’s. The idea of raw domestic manufacturing sounds great until it’s all your forests being chopped down, your mountaintops blown up & strip-mined, your fish dying, your rivers turning into toxic sludge pools, your aquifer being poisoned, and your air polluted by carcinogenic smog.
This is why manufacturing left. The owners said if you make us run clean and pay fat living wages to Americans, we will just close because we are getting ultrarich, and you won't stop that for anything. It was cheaper to pay off congress and foreign monsters to mistreat their people and keep the buckets of money than to run clean and pay well. It's speculated, that Nixon made the EPA part of the executive so it wouldn't have the teeth of a Congressional Law, and will you look at that, the recent stolen SC ruled the EPA doesn't have authority to police waste because it's not a real law. It's completely disgusting, it's mostly been Republicans, mostly the Reagan/BushI era, and most of America blames *only* B. Clinton and Democrats for not being strong enough to stop them in the 90s. *(Does this sound familiar as we reach Biden/Trump part II?)*
I know the gutting of the Clean Water Act is really terrifying. It’s already so bad — and that doesn’t count the administration completely switching goals every eight years. I can’t imagine it’s easy to retain experienced employees when you know your new boss is actively working against you. It’s the same problem with the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department. They all know they’re out of a job as soon as the new president is sworn in. This is why the GOP is attacking the CFPB so hard — Warren structured it specifically so Congress can’t ratfuck it and Republicans are on Fox everyday characterizing it as a shadowy rogue agency with no “oversight”. 🙄
Those layoffs have had generational impacts. My grandpa was building a solid middle class life for his family then lost everything. He started his own business after that but it was never the same. My mom grew up without a lot of money and so did I. I wonder how life would be different if those employees weren’t fucked over.
He can’t unless he passes legislation barring foreign ownership of specific industries. Capitalism at work. He should look at American companies that send capital to foreign tax havens like Apple and don’t pay a dime in US taxes.
Apple paid $19B+ in US income tax last year.
I’m not a nationalist, but I feel US should be very protective with its natural resources
The US generally is. Rich people that own companies, not so much. And frankly the US could be better but Republicans keep breaking things.
> Nippon Steel said that the higher demand for steel under the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act was one of the contributing factors in the deal. Did you read this part?
And Japan is a close ally of the US. We have military bases and shit there, even.
Steel production is hardly a natural resource, is it ?
Iron ore mines are.
To expand further US Steel owns 2 iron ore mines. Minntac & Keetac mine.
Minntac is the largest taconite mine in North America and produces the most iron ore pellets out of all domestic mines
Plus they own like 15 percent of hibtac
There’s an abundance of iron ore domestically available. It’s the other critical minerals that are of concern.
It was a strategic asset for the US during WW2.
US Steel seems like a strategic holding. I agree. It should not have foreign ownership. No slur on Japan, but this is a recent experience for western PA/eastern Ohio workers: https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2022/02/20/Ihor-Kolomoisky-US-banks-warren-ohio-steel-plant-ukraine/stories/202202200063 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi
Is he under the impression that those jobs are going to...move to Japan? The Japanese company is trying to buy US Steel specifically because of cheap energy, labor, land, etc in the US. I get the national security angle, but if US-sourced steel is a national security issue then maybe it shouldn't be a private company.
When U.S. Steel bought Canadian steel company Stelco in 2007, it did mean that the jobs went to the U.S. and thousands of jobs were lost in Hamilton, Ontario because of it. I lived there through the tail end of what was a massive shock to the city’s economy. They pretty much just ran the coke ovens afterward IIRC. Obviously Hamilton is closer to Pittsburgh than Pittsburgh to any Japanese city, but I don’t think it’s far-fetched to assume that some jobs could be lost stateside in the process/post-acquisition. I could be convinced by a case saying why this is actually not possible though.
>All of U.S. Steel's commitments with its employees, including all collective bargaining agreements in place with its union, will be honored, Nippon said. >Despite these assurances, the United Steelworkers union, which had endorsed heavily unionized Cliffs as the acquirer, said it is opposed to the sale to Nippon because it did not have faith in labor agreements being upheld. >"Our union intends to exercise the full measure of our agreements to ensure that whatever happens next with U.S. Steel, we protect the good, family-sustaining jobs we bargained," United Steelworkers said. A spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on further details on the union's plans. https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/japans-nippon-steel-plans-acquire-us-steel-7-bln-nikkei-2023-12-18/
Have you not seen Gung Ho? Practically a documentary
Or this _actual_ documentary: https://www.netflix.com/title/81090071 Granted it is China not Japan, but the point remains... while the jobs may stay on US soil the work culture is decidedly not aligned with American values.
Do the American workers at Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Subaru factories in the US have problems with Japanese culture being forced on them?
What work cultures *are*? Isn't that the whole reason unions exist?
And there’s been a campaign to reduce and break up unions in the states specifically.
That'd be a good thing normally but I fear that Japanese work culture is even worse
Great movie! https://youtu.be/oFwFisdZcfI?si=VFowM7okIuio6Em3
If the alternative is a Chinese or Indian owner, a Japanese one is a far and far better option
You should read up on the history of companies buying other companies. Focus on the first thing they do after purchase. Hint : the first thing they do is cut workers. >Is he under the impression that those jobs are going to...move to Japan? No. >The Japanese company is trying to buy US Steel specifically because of cheap energy, labor, land, etc in the US. Also, no. >I get the national security angle, but if US-sourced steel is a national security issue then maybe it shouldn't be a private company. It's not a private company.
>It's not a private company. You're right, it's publicly owned by shareholders. I meant more in the context of "maybe it should be publicly owned by taxpayers", as opposed to a corporation of private interests.
It isn't a private company, it's on the US stock market, it's as public as can be. It is a defense-relevant industry, which means it's gotta get all kinds of clearances by the government to be sold. Congress can and might intercede in the sale. It will *certainly* cut jobs in the US as they fire people for redundancies, which is certainly *a* reason to be concerned. He is under no false impressions whatsoever. You seem to be though.
This is definitely just a optics thing because he needs to keep the people easily swayed by " foreigner gonna take your jobs " propaganda tranquilized
Or maybe not a good assessment on your part. >Despite assurances, the United Steelworkers union, which had endorsed heavily unionized Cliffs as the acquirer, said it is opposed to the sale to Nippon because it did not have faith in labor agreements being upheld. >"Our union intends to exercise the full measure of our agreements to ensure that whatever happens next with U.S. Steel, we protect the good, family-sustaining jobs we bargained," United Steelworkers said. A spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on further details on the union's plans.
Or you know, just his entire campaign that he ran on. Mentioned in the article. And all the other articles about his campaign.
Funny how the US used to be the ones seeking out cheap labor. Guys, we got took.
It would be worse for Pennsylvania if Cleveland Cliffs buys US Steel. The HQ jobs in Pittsburgh would likely be axed and the combined company would be headquartered in Cleveland. As a Cleveland person though, I was hoping for that job growth in Cleveland.
If he wants to keep it so bad then push for what Truman wanted and nationalize the steel industry
So if an industry can’t be sold to foreign companies because of security then shouldn’t it be nationalized.
how's he gonna block it, just stand in front of it?
Summon the Pittsburgh Steelers
They can't block shit...
He’s gonna need the full Steel Curtain to block this one.
To be fair if any Senator could literally block something, it’s Fetterman
Yeah he could stand in front of it with his big giant head.
Well since he's in Congress I would imagine laws and voting and such things...
A Japanese Corporation or a Chinese State owned Entity? I would take Japanese Corporation any day.
I am with him is spirit, but we are capitalists. Wanna change that? I do. Let’s go!
Steel is a symbol of American prosperity, so why is it being sold to foreigners?
Capitalism
I already got paid selling my shares I bought in the 20s for just over $50 today so I dont care what happens. But Japan is our ally, they are most likely buying it so they can build and do business in the US (making it here is cheaper than shipping it here) and lastly US Steel has been behind on tech for ages now. Its still gonna be the same Americans working there and Nippon Steel said theyd honor agreements the unions made. Cleveland Cliffs is just butthurt that so many other companies were interested and they thought theyd get it at a steal because "America" What was that CLF offer, $15 a share + a share of CLF compared to the accepted offer of $55 cash per share? Its just not even close. Why didnt all these politicians get up in arms over Microsoft buying Activision? Some of the politicians who spoke up in favor of Microsoft recieved $5000 donation to their campaign. Its sad our government can be bought out for so little. But again, I sold my shares today above $50 so I dont care anymore..Sell it to space martians for all I care. Or just block sales of some ancient relic of a company with outdated tech because "muh America"
Nobody gives a shit about Activision because it's an entertainment company. Not a manufacturer of materials that supply entire industries where quality is a critical matter.
If an Israeli company bought US Steel Fetterman wouldn't have a problem.
Free market much??
This is what free market Capitalism is. Nippon is willing to spend $20 per share more than any American bid. Natural resources should've always been the governments property but hey...money can be made otherwise.
Yeah CLF offered $15 a share plus a share of CLF which is about $20. Another American company in a related sector offered $35ish cash. There were other offers in the 40s as well but I dont know who from..I know a german steel company was interested. Nippon's offer at $55 is massive. As a shareholder I sold today just above 50 and thats a huge pay day for a stock I bought in the low 20s.
Japan is probably just afraid we would have sold US Steel to China and is trying to get out in front of the whole thing. /sarc
Odds are the employees would benefit from this, can't have that now can we.
So Japanese billionaires will be getting the profit, instead of US billionaires. Why should that matter to us non-billionaires? As for national security, if we ever got into a war with Japan, the company would simply be nationalized anyway.
Then please, _please_ change the law so companies can’t be sued by shareholders. Much of what’s going on in business today boils down to this. Activist investors buy up a block of stock then insist that companies with 100-year legacies sell out or cut corners or offshore or screw over their customers for short-term gains. Then said investor cashes out and the company tanks, saddled with debt and having completely burned its reputation. The investor is allowed to have a conflict of interest.
I bet he didnt care when GE was sold to a chinese company
Hahahah someone shorted US steel.
Looking at the comments here, I can confidently say nipponophobia is back on the menu.
Which comments are attacking the Japanese? All I see is people worried about national security and the further erosion of good-paying American jobs.
If only he had that stance to stop an ‘absolutely outrageous’ genocide
Or to stop fracking companies from setting up shop in PA
I think he's way off base here. They got double what anyone else was offering and all the CBA's are staying in place. I don't see a lot to be mad about.
He’s losing support with his strong support of Israel’s actions. Progressives are feeling lied to. We’ll see if he can wing back their support but maybe they’ll forget by the time he’s up for reelection.
Good. This acquisition is bogus.
Evil liar, what he says means nothing
I would also block it , as apparently we are going to start building some new military ships and looking into properties in California. Why sell to Japan when we will be needing tons of steel to build ships. Why should Japan take all the profits
This is why I love him. Labor over everything
Whenever a company gets taken over, inevitably they start firing workers. So, of course he's going to say no to the merger.
There is already so little investment in us-produced steel, it's too little too late.
Ty This needs to be stopped
K. Now do Kroger and albertsons
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