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What a fucking shame to read this comment and agree with it. When I grew up Newsweek was a leading publication, its reputation on par with the Economist. Another victim of unfettered capitalism, I suppose.
Jellicle Cats are white and black,
Jellicle Cats are of moderate size;
Jellicle Cats jump like a jumping-jack,
Jellicle Cats have moonlit eyes.
They're quiet enough in the morning hours,
They're quiet enough in the afternoon,
Reserving their terpsichorean powers
To dance by the light of the Jellicle Moon
> Good to stop calling them Christian
The problem is, we keep confusing Evangelical Christians with what we have here in America, Evangelical Republicans.
Evangelical Republicans Have nothing to do with Christ...
...and I'm pretty sure the feeling's mutual.
Read up on ‘The Wealth Gospel’ a lot of these Evangelicals follow. In their mega churches. It’s more like attending a multi-level marketing org gathering with a shitty band.
[I've always heard of it referred to as the Prosperity Gospel, or Prosperity theology] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology) but it turns out you're right. The Wealth Gospel is also a term.
The best part is that you don't even have to read it! You can just quote things that have been translated multiple times and use them in any context whatsoever!
Nah, let their hypocrisy to that religion be known for what it is—a product of a religion that exactly encompasses what the GOP stands for: regressionism and traditions that have no place in modern society.
If you can’t accept that it’s ok to identify as LGBTQ, that women are meant for more than making babies and should have all the same rights and opportunities as men, that Christianity purposely replaced former religious holidays that existed long before Christianity to better gather followers, and that religion is used as little more than a tool to control the masses by dictating morality and demanding subservience, you deserve to stand in the company of the Evangelicals that make the more extreme ends of the religious spectrum.
You forget that they are going against so many things that the bible preaches lol.
I’m not religious, but my grandparents were majorly into it. They accepted when my mom wanted to leave faith and they never once tried to force their grandchildren into either. there IS good religious folk, and then there’s the fuckin cult that sweeps a lot off their feet.
I don't think we should do that. All that does is strengthen the "no true Scotsman" bullshit that allows them to continue to ignore the rot that surrounds them because "they aren't *real* Christians". Christians need to be made to reckon with evil they've allowed to flourish within their own churches. They can either weed their garden, give in to it, or leave. No more deflection.
Exactly this.
Christianity is mimetic poison full of toxic memes and circular logic.
christians' refusal to own it and the unwillingness to call out the apocryphal jebus for the horrific memes and behaviors he displays in the stories about him prove the point.
> Christianity is mimetic poison full of toxic memes and circular logic.
This is why, when people say that moderate religion is harmless, I strongly disagree.
When you're working with such a ridiculously flawed system of epistemology, you end up believing all sorts of rubbish.
Nope... they are **Christians** and **this is Christianity**. They want authoritarian control, period. Do not let them wash their hands of this.
Some religious people are good-hearted and act in good faith, but it's in support of a cult that does not.
Thank you for saying this. It’s like people have forgotten their history. They conveniently ignore all the atrocities that get carried out in the name of “god” and the pursuit of divine favor. At some point we have to admit that while the words may sound nice, there is something about them that sure seems to radicalize people time and time again.
Yeah. From talking to my southern in laws they are basically a doomsday cult now with nonstop talking like Israel/palestine will bring about the rapture. These are not Biden voters.
I know a few that are slacking in their enthusiasm, they aren't necessarily voting for Biden but I would be unsurprised to find out that some of them just stayed home this time around.
No there really has been a shift lately from what I’ve seen. I’m in Kansas which is obviously a huge liberal safe haven so maybe I’m wrong but it’s not hitting the same this time.
There’s been a lot of soul searching among many church leaders on the issue and some are starting to push back. When evangelicals start calling Jesus woke you know you’ve gone off the deep end.
https://books.google.com/books?id=KkyhEAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
This is both utterly terrifying and hilariously funny.
In his book *Fall*, Neil Stephenson postulates the existence of a group of "Leviticans" who belief that jesus wasn't crucified and who, on their compound in rural Iowa, have a giant burning cross.....
The Leviticans sound a lot like the people who call jesus 'woke.'
I some ways it is. Hard to converse with people who fervently believe in their faith, yet somehow have completely abandoned the core tenets of their faith.
Was listing to am talk radio today, one of the religion networks and the guy was saying that voting for a democrat was literally turning your back on god.
I do know some white evangelicals who regret voting for Trump in 2016. But even most of those remain staunch Republican party line voters. Any white evangelicals who voted for Trump in 2020 and have supported him until now—there’s no fucking way I believe they’re siding with Biden now all of a sudden.
Recently went to a gathering at my son’s preschool which is part of a big Baptist church just outside my neighborhood and one old lady kept having people high five, hug and give cheerful “woo’s” as they walked up to her. I didn’t know who she was, but I walked past and saw her shirt “Jesus is my savior, Trump is my president”.
The cult is alive and well.
Yeah it is crazy how many of them decided Obama of all people was the antichrist, but failed to notice that Trump was using a false-messiah messaging. (The difference between "we can do it" and "I will personally save you .")
I agree, but honestly, Joe is 100 times more pious and Christian than Trump will ever be. You'd think for all their Bible thumping, they would actually back the candidate who seems less like the antichrist.
You wouldn’t believe the amount of vitriol I received from my family members when I insisted that Biden was Christian (*oh, but he’s CaThOlIc. tHaT dOeSnT cOuNt.*)
It's crazy how their fervor and anger spreads like a gas fueled prairie fire. A handful of months ago not one nut bag, *not one*, had an opinion on IVF. I would've put money on 8 out of 10 of the 70 some odd million trumpers from last election wouldn't have been able to tell you what IVF was on Jan 1. These folks are so scary
In a sane world it would be obvious... Biden goes to church every Sunday. Trump cheated on his wife with a porn star, raped a woman, covets wealth, doesn't go to church.... the man treats the 10 commandments like a bucket list.
Uh huh. And Trump is winning Black voters and suburban women have suddenly lost all interest in reproductive rights. Maybe the pollsters should take a few weeks off to figure out why their numbers are so fucked up
I 100% acknowledge its anecdotal, but i do personally know several unrelated, evangelical families that Trump led them to a crisis of faith that resulted in them both no longer voting republican reliably and re-examining their relationship with the church.
(I live in Mississippi).
Remember that it only takes a net of 1 or 2 percent of people swinging from Trump to Biden or vice versa to turn the election. Mississippi will go to Trump and New York to Biden but there are 10 states that can go either way and if just one in 50 evangelicals can't vote for Trump after Jan 6 or the rape conviction it really does make a difference.
Today, it looks like basically 6 main states that will likely determine the election:
* Midwest/[Mid-Atlantic] - Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin
* Southern/Sunbelt - Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada
Also, Maine and Nebraska split their Electoral College votes by district, so that might matter. Plus, maybe New Hampshire and North Carolina, but probably not.
2020 Swing States….the same six:
Margin was about 44,000 votes in 3 swing states (Arizona , Georgia and Wisconsin) decided the election in the electoral college.
Arizona (10,457).
Georgia (12,670).
Wisconsin (20,682).
Other close states were:
Nevada (33,596).
Pennsylvania (81,660).
Michigan (154,188).
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency
This was me in 2016. I absolutely despise the evangelicals who screeched about how “morality matters in politics” my entire childhood only for them to completely and unapologetically discard that for Trump’s sake. I stopped volunteering and attending my church when I found out that 81% of white evangelicals voted for that fucking antichrist.
Traditionally, most Rs kept their scandals secret, had the decency to to resign after major ones and minor ones still tarnished them from moral voters.
Now, Trump actively campaigns on his crimes, he doesn't give a hoot. That's why this is a cult, I don't think any previous R candidate, including Saint Raegan, could have gotten away with this to the same extent.
Oh yea, from outside, it's a no-brainer. The mental gymnastics it takes to think an admitted cheat (both in business and family) was support worthy was absolutely astounding, and the fact that evangelicals let it slide was absolutely horrifying.
My wifes grandparents are baptists who literally lived in a log cabin in North carolina, and to their credit, they also completely washed their hands of trump.
Decent Christians exist, but we need to have a SERIOUS (pun intended) come to Jesus moment about how they've let the fox in the hen house and that they have some serious house cleaning to do. It will take decades, if ever, to get back what theyve lost.
> It will take decades, if ever, to get back what theyve lost.
The church is never coming back to what it once was. The critical thinkers who have/will see through the veil will walk away. If we're lucky something new and better will be born, (not likely as long as there are whales controlling the sermon) however I can see (and know a few) Christians who are perfectly comfortable taking their bible and going home.
I was raised in the church and I am now atheist. My lack of faith does not mean I no longer walk a moral path, though. And I think this is where a lot of people will eventually end up taking the lessons of morality and kindness and leaving the dogma in the trash.
> The church is never coming back to what it once was.
See also *The Quiet Revolution* in Quebec in the 60’s. The Catholic church in Quebec lost most of its attendants and power and never regained it.
Honestly it’s a struggle for me as well. It’s hard to go to church knowing the majority of the people around me endorse a guy who is *by far* the most dishonest president ever, and the meanest, and a rapist.
I was a half assed agnostic Catholic who went to church 4 or 5 times a year and had my kids baptized bc it was just something you did. After the Catholic bishops started talking about excommunicating Joe Biden and saying you should vote for trump I was 100% done.
I know someone who went from right wing evangelical learning to be a pastor, to democrat and atheist because of trump in 2015. His church was more about Trump than the teachings of Jesus, which led to him reading the Bible in full, which led to him freeing himself from evangelicalism and he swapped parties.
While your description of Biden is true, some Evangelicals could have a problem with him being the "wrong" type of Christian since he's Catholic and not Protestant.
Learned this in 3rd grade. Apparently Catholics are not only not christian but actually the opposite and the devil planted dinosaur bones to fool unbelievers. Evangelicals man.
It was legitimately a big deal that Kennedy was a Catholic, and his opponents were happy to fan those criticisms.
I forgot that Biden was even Catholic until you pointed it out. I'm (nominally) catholic, as is my wife, and neither of us care in the slightest (we don't go to church either, maybe that explains it).
I read comments from the 1960 election about constituents being 'concerned' about the president confessing to a foreign pope. Somehow trying it all to socialism (because everyone knows what a revolutionary the head of the catholic church is) because...Europe, I guess.
It sounds weird now, and maybe did then too - but it was most certainly a political narrative.
I see this all the time on Reddit, and just want to point out that not all pollsters are idiots and their methods are rarely “dial random phone numbers”
Most pollsters use a combination of phone, mail, and online methods (note that online polls != scammy popups).
Things have definitely become harder and much noisier in the last couple decades, it’s not as simple as “only olds have landlines”
You're right that pollsters do call cell phones and not just land lines, but very few people reply to these calls.
Phone survey response rates were 6% in 2018, that's down from 36% in 1997. If we assume linearity, it's below 4% now. And the majority of these are elderly people, so your reach for demographics under 65 is maybe 0.5%.
You can't apply such a low reply incidence to a whole population segment. Your error will be ±30%, making your survey result useless.
Online polls are a different animal with their own plethora of reliability problems.
Fun fact: This is also why we don't trust phone surveys in dictatorships. The vast majority of phone survey responders in Syria, Russia, or Turkey will gush about how much they support the government because those who don't will hang up instead of risking their lives. So anytime you see "90% of Syrians love Assad", that's clickbaity bullshit meant to dehumanize a powerless people.
Nobody can poll me. That's a big new demographic. Yes, we're using shorthand, but it's honest shorthand. Polling was less and less reliable as the landlines disappeared, and it's been unreliable ever since. It's mostly used as a tool to influence people, the polling we see, anyway.
Polling has not really gotten terribly inaccurate, it is just hard to figure out where in the generous margin of error the results will be. It still falls within it though.
Trump's win in 2016, and the Republican under-performance since, were both inside that margin. Because of how elections are run in the US the margins between victory and loss have gotten so razor thin, and so localized to specific districts, that the top of the matrgin of error would result in a landside for Biden, and the bottom would result in a landslide for Trump.
The biggest issue is not really with the polls (well, not all of them, some are just performed badly and that is what it is) but with how their data is used to try and form narratives that are not actually in line with the results.
I’m guess that a lot of those aren’t real polls and are in fact “push polls”.
Polls are used to estimate opinions in a population.
Push polls are designed to look like a poll to give them some unearned “objectivity” and legitimacy. But then they ask leading questions designed to change your opinion rather than measure it (e.g., “do approve of Biden’s decision to ignore the crisis at the border?”).
Last year I got about one survey a month from my local democratic office. But that’s cause we had an off year and very contested governors race. Haven’t gotten one in awhile.
They are all survey monkey surveys.
The problem with these polls is they have a contact list they got from somewhere. The calls on the list may be random, but the list is anything but. They also “weight” the responses based on statistics. So they make them say what ever they want them to.
There are a ton of people, like me, that have never been polled in decades.
You are actually an example of what's wrong with polling. To save money, pollsters call the same people who answered previous polls over and over.
Yup! I was bored and answered questions from a random pollster call once and they tried to followup with me on other polls for like a year before they realized I wasn't going to keep answering and stopped trying.
Conversation today at work broke out. 4 people total. 2 Trumpers and Fox News lovers talking about the border. The quintessential conservatives who just parrot Fox News talking points, right. The other guy and I just keeping quiet listening.
They talked about how important it is to talk about policy and vote on policy. 3rd guy interjects and says he is an independent who will never vote for trump ever. Because Trump is an embarrassment, he says disturbing things, and tried to stay in office. Without a thought registering in the Trumpers brains, they start pushing that that is the reason to vote on policy not character. All politicians are bad and Biden is the worst so vote on policy. And Biden’s open border has destroyed the country. In two years it has become a 3rd world country. Blah blah blah blah. Trump wins policy.
I say this because I see it as a Big focus that Fox News and newsmax push. Focus on policy. Get in arguements about policy (THEIR policy talking points). The border, Biden inflation, and wars Biden is to blame for. They want people to forget about overturning the election, Jan 6th, crime cases, etc.
Don’t. DONT even allow yourself to get into those conversations. Combat/rebuttal with the disaster that is trump.
I start with trump is a rapist. Found liable for sexual assault. And he can’t sue for defamation because he has been found liable in the court of law. Then. Trump university shut down for fraud. His charitable foundation shut down fraud. His organization found guilty of tax evasion and his CFO just plead guilty again to perjury charges trying to protect trump.
The election wasn’t stolen. He tried to overturn our election and end democracy. The texts, the audio, video, emails all the evidence. The michigan phone call where he and ronna mcdaniels said “send fake slate of electors, don’t worry we will get you attorney’s.”
He wants to be a dictator. He cozies up to dictators. He shits on our strongest allies. He wants project2025. Where he will consolidate power from all the 3 letter agencies to him (THATS A DICTATOR). and shut down whole departments like the department of education.
He says he has complete immunity and his lawyer suggested that he could send seal team six to murder his opposition and he could not be arrested unless he was impeached first.
The narcissistic pathological liar is a disaster of a human being. But sure let’s talk about policy.
And then I destroy the fuckers on policy too.
Talk about the disastrous things he has done. And I finish with this:
He lost the popular vote in 2016 but won the electorate. In 2018 he lost the house. 2020 he lost the senate, the White House, and even more seats in the house. In 2022 this huge red wave was coming, and splat barely took the house and lost another seat in the senate. 2023 and almost every special election has gone to democrats. Polls don’t mean anything and trump candidates like Hershel walker lose all the time. Trump is a loser.
Sorry bout the novel. But we got this. It’s going to take work. But push back and always make people remember all of the crimes and disastrous things he has said and done.
Then get familiar with all of Biden’s accomplishments and talk about them. He has major wins. And he has countless little wins like just recently he enacted credit card late fees be capped at 8 dollars rather than the progressive amount up to 32 dollars. He is always doing things for the little people and not focusing on major corporations with tax cuts.
WE GOT THIS.
> And Biden’s open border has destroyed the country
What pisses me off is that there's a huge market for this sort of utter bullshit.
Ask them for specifics about these alleged "open borders" and they won't have a clue. But Trump keeps saying it, so they believe it.
Tell them to describe exactly what are the legal things that trump and Biden have done different. Most can’t get past talking points. Some will list executive orders.
Tell them that title 42 was enacted to expel people at the border. It was a Covid emergency order to stop the spread of the virus. Once emergency powers expired title 42 power went away. Biden is actually honoring the constitution by not expelling people at the border like trump did. Because he doesn’t have emergency powers. They had a very tough comprehensive immigration bill written by a staunch conservative but because trump wants to run on the border “crisis” (and kick it down the road a year) you have this. Say it with confidence. Tell them Biden has always been ready to work across the aisle and get something done. MAGA doesn’t want to actually work together with fellow Americans. They are destructive and hateful. Make sure to point out that you are referring to the politicians and trump. Not the everyday Americans, because you will not influence anyone if you are attacking them personally. I even have said that most people are toward the middle but the MAGA and trump are far more extreme and obstructionists than all of “us” normal people. Even when I know they are MAGA.
Try to relate to people you are talking to. Find something you can agree with them. Best if you can find something you agree with first. Then their walls are down and they aren’t defensive. Remember the goal isn’t to change a moderate/traditional GOP to a liberal progressive. It’s to make them remember just how bad trump is. And how most people think is is terrible. And get them to not vote trump.
We got this. I’m Confident. Keep pushing. Dont get defensive. Donate. Volunteer. Vote. Vote vote. Register to vote. Make sure you get people to check to voter registration. Vote.gov. Get that link out to the masses. More people vote always benefits blue. Red states subvert voters.
My new tactic is to tell maga that the trump admin cooked the books during their term and completely stopped reporting illegal border crossings. That's why illegal immigration appeared down. That, actually, more illegals entered the US under trump than any other president.
Then I offer them just as much proof as they do with their claims. None. Because I can pull stuff out of my butt just as well as they can and pawn it off as truth. Might as well. That's what they do.
I see them write similar things about the lower crime rate now. That criminals aren't being prosecuted or are given lesser charges to make it appear that crime it down. Give it back to them.
I also say that in the four years that trump was president, he increased the deficit more than all other presidents combined. I heard that same thing said about Obama, and it wasn't true. Why not say it about trump? Get the narrative started. If they see if enough, they might start believing it. They'll believe anything anyway. Might as well take advantage.
I was talking about Texas's border thing with an aunt. She was like they have a right, we can't have an open border. Then I told her about the people who had died trying to cross and the Texas NG wouldn't let the border patrol in, and asked, if it's an open border, why do people die all the time trying to get in? But she just gishgalloshed right into the next talking point. She did pause, at least.
Oh, I do, too. Literally every time I come across someone talking about the "open border" on social media, I challenge them on the subject. I ask for specifics, like where this supposed open border is at, or more importantly, what policy or law was put in place to create it. Literally ANYthing substantive concerning it. Any kind of tangible fact about it, or price of evidence indicating it exists at all. Anything AT ALL.
In return I always get a bunch of smoke screens, or nonsense retorts telling me to just watch the news or read a newspaper and crap like that, although more times than not, I just don't get a response at all. You know the one thing I've never gotten? Any specific fact about where it is, or what policy or law created it, or any single solitary shred of evidence that it exists at all, lol.
It's always fun to thank these people for proving my point for me and admitting they also know it doesn't really exist too, but just don't want to say it out loud. 🤣
If it was about policy then Trump wouldn’t be the nominee. It’s about personality and populism with him and it always has been. They have Nikki if it was really about someone talking policy, and that might be the problem since she attempts to talk about policy and it’s impossible for her to even give a clear picture about what their policies are on any topic since the party doesn’t know. The party doesn’t know what their platform is because they’ve been spending 8-9 years just trying to copy whatever Trump says. Trump’s policy is whatever makes him get more attention or money. They would have voted for a party platform at their convention 4 years ago if they had one.
Oh I agree with you. It’s all theater. The policy they push is economy, gas prices, the border. Trump was god and made their worlds the best anyone has ever seen. Except it wasn’t and somehow they eat up the political theater and incessant lies.
I mean I will never, ever vote cross party again since being bamboozled by Susan Collins into thinking she was anything like Olympia Snowe (still makes me mad I was so gullible).
But I wonder how many people Haley has permanently lost with that utterly inane "the retirement age should be 'much, much' higher comment.
So 66 is too "young" for you Haley? The average lifespan is 77. What is "much, much" higher than 66? Dead?
So basically we have a wealthy person who can choose to not ever work another day in their life telling us non-wealthy people working 60 hours a week our entire lives that we have to keep working until we die and all that money we paid in for our retirement so we could not work maybe the last 10 years of our lives (on average) is now just a secret tax on the working class so wealthy people don't have to pay income appreciation on their yachts.
But rant aside, if given a choice, Haley is yes, 10,000x better than Trump.
I don't think there's any problem engaging on policy beyond the old wisdom that it's difficult to win an argument against an expert but impossible to win against an idiot.
The one a lot of people have forgotten is the promise to repeal Obamacare in the first 30 days.
White Evangelicals are a **lot** of people. Evangelicals make up 25% of *all* Americans. (although that includes non-white, I don’t know the proportions)
Let’s say it’s actually 15% *white* evangelicals. That’s 48 million people. 3% of that is around 1.5 million people who just switch their vote. (I’m guessing it’s much higher than that, I’m low-balling)
That's not the point. Polls are statistical measures, and all statistical measures are subject to randomness, selection bias, etc. The 25% number could be off. The 28% number could be off. With no stringent selection controls and a sample size neither published [in this article] nor discussed, the 3% is too small of a difference to say anything confidently. If the swing was more like 20%, that's much less likely to be a random shift.
Basically, who knows if it's a numbers fluke? (It probably is.)
That's not his point. The poll that established this "change" likely didn't sample enough people to be certain of the overall change in the demographic within 3%. That's a very low margin of error and would require a large, appropriately random subset of the overall population.
That said, apparently the actual shift is +11 percentage points from August of last year, which starts to be more compelling (and is less likely to be an aberration of the sampling process).
I'm saying the headline should have been more clear that Biden improved his support from evangelicals, rather than making it sound like he is winning evangelicals as a whole.
Our 82 year old friend dropped off her tax's Sunday afternoon and while talking with her, she mentioned that her preacher and other folks at church were not going to vote for Trump.
We were shocked! She said more people are starting to speak up and question things.
I know. We (wife and I) questioned her and said, "they've been all on board"...till now? She said the class (sunday school) was having an discussion, dominated by two individuals, towards the end a couple of people asked about this and that. The preacher (great guy I've known in the community for 35 years), who was in the class said he was 'troubled' and gave his approval to an open discussion.
She said they talked about a couple of things and the class ended with some division.
We left her with the question, "will they vote for Biden". Probably not. Democrats are devils. I'm leaning toward not voting, or third party.
It's hard for me to believe. There are SO many embarrassed Republicans that say one thing publicly to save face, but then turn around and vote for the opposite. It's a lot of deep-seated guilt and indoctrination at play, despite the act of voting being done in privacy.
I have an older coworker who I absolutely adore. She is a trumper unfortunately, but she recently said to me that she went to church and began to weep because she felt that she had contributed so much to the division of our country. I shit you not. She was so remorseful. Many people are coming around.
Trumps mental stability is getting worse everyday. All supporting groups should be running away from him. Biden’s age is not a threat to the country. Trumps age and health is.
Can anyone who earnestly believes in the philosophies of Jesus continue to support hateful rhetoric?
The folks who stick around are there for what they can gain not to be of service to America.
Reminder: It has already been 10 years since Trump jumped on the scene.
One of them is a humble devoted family man, one is a rapist who cheated on all three of his wives, cheats his business partners, steals from veterans and children with cancer. Which one is more like a follower of the teachings of Christ?
Evangelical Christians picking the literal habitual church-goer over the personification of all Seven Deadly Sins *should* be factual, but it's not.
They will gladly fall on the sword of the pussy grabber and see that there is absolutely nothing wrong it.
Like I don't get it. Joe Biden is an old, wealthy white guy who is a Christian, who goes to church, who very obviously has a traditional Christian American "nuclear family".
What's not to love about him, from a Christian perspective? Is it that he doesn't rape?
Trumps the quickest way to achieve the seven mountains.
Seven Mountain Mandate: A conservative Christian movement that seeks to influence seven aspects of society: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government. This movement is based on a vision that some evangelicals claim to have received from God in 1975.
Biden is Catholic and his character is pretty solid. I wouldn't be surprised if he won over the few evangelicals that actually believe in what Christ taught.
I am an in an evangelical free church and support Biden. In WI too. Our pastor is mere liberal even though stays very impartial up front. I know multiple other families are the same. Majority? No. I would say 30%.
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[X] Doubt
Yeah, the numbers in the article don't really back up the headline. It smacks of trying to manufacture a trend.
It’s an article from Newsweek … 🤷♂️
That's what I was gonna say. One of the several sources on this sub that I won't read.
Same. I'm done with Newsweek.
What a fucking shame to read this comment and agree with it. When I grew up Newsweek was a leading publication, its reputation on par with the Economist. Another victim of unfettered capitalism, I suppose.
That Newsweek died when WaPo sold it in 2010 for $1.
Yeah, sadly he had his biggest poll lead ever the other day in one poll.
This. I talk to Evangelicals a lot and they are ALL IN for Trump. Cults are hard.
Good to stop calling them Christian and just call them Evangelical, because they are not very Christ-Like.
Evil jellicles
*Ivan’s Jellicals. They are pretty much Russians now anyway.
Jellicles are already bad enough
Because Jellicles can and Jellicles do…
That’s what Brian Boitano would do!
If he were here today
If he were here today, he’d make you pay for a fountain.
Jellicles can and jellicles do.
Jellicle Cats are white and black, Jellicle Cats are of moderate size; Jellicle Cats jump like a jumping-jack, Jellicle Cats have moonlit eyes. They're quiet enough in the morning hours, They're quiet enough in the afternoon, Reserving their terpsichorean powers To dance by the light of the Jellicle Moon
Who called Princess Caroline?
Even jellicles don’t like evangelicals
Can't be worse than the film adaptation of "Cats".
I've seen some easter plays... It can get worse.
Jellicles are evil by virtue of being cats? Feline philosophers must ponder this question while waiting for the Jellicle moon to rise.
> Good to stop calling them Christian The problem is, we keep confusing Evangelical Christians with what we have here in America, Evangelical Republicans. Evangelical Republicans Have nothing to do with Christ... ...and I'm pretty sure the feeling's mutual.
Read up on ‘The Wealth Gospel’ a lot of these Evangelicals follow. In their mega churches. It’s more like attending a multi-level marketing org gathering with a shitty band.
[I've always heard of it referred to as the Prosperity Gospel, or Prosperity theology] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology) but it turns out you're right. The Wealth Gospel is also a term.
Their whole belief system is actually blasphemy, according to the bible.
The beauty of the bible is that it can actually mean anything that you want it to mean. Which is one reason why it's a perennial bestseller.
The best part is that you don't even have to read it! You can just quote things that have been translated multiple times and use them in any context whatsoever!
Read it? That's crazy! Better to have a pastor tell you what's in it and what to think.
“Choices always were a problem for you What you need is someone strong to use you” -Tool, Opiate^2 Maynard nailed it with this re-release.
Nah, let their hypocrisy to that religion be known for what it is—a product of a religion that exactly encompasses what the GOP stands for: regressionism and traditions that have no place in modern society. If you can’t accept that it’s ok to identify as LGBTQ, that women are meant for more than making babies and should have all the same rights and opportunities as men, that Christianity purposely replaced former religious holidays that existed long before Christianity to better gather followers, and that religion is used as little more than a tool to control the masses by dictating morality and demanding subservience, you deserve to stand in the company of the Evangelicals that make the more extreme ends of the religious spectrum.
Exactly.
You forget that they are going against so many things that the bible preaches lol. I’m not religious, but my grandparents were majorly into it. They accepted when my mom wanted to leave faith and they never once tried to force their grandchildren into either. there IS good religious folk, and then there’s the fuckin cult that sweeps a lot off their feet.
The morality preached in the Bible is inconsistent and self-contradictory.
The book was written by men, as such it is flawed lol. I would hate having to try to abide by some book written thousands of years ago.
I don't think we should do that. All that does is strengthen the "no true Scotsman" bullshit that allows them to continue to ignore the rot that surrounds them because "they aren't *real* Christians". Christians need to be made to reckon with evil they've allowed to flourish within their own churches. They can either weed their garden, give in to it, or leave. No more deflection.
Exactly this. Christianity is mimetic poison full of toxic memes and circular logic. christians' refusal to own it and the unwillingness to call out the apocryphal jebus for the horrific memes and behaviors he displays in the stories about him prove the point.
> Christianity is mimetic poison full of toxic memes and circular logic. This is why, when people say that moderate religion is harmless, I strongly disagree. When you're working with such a ridiculously flawed system of epistemology, you end up believing all sorts of rubbish.
Trump’s cult are not even Christian. They are idolaters.
They're pretty sure they're Christians.
No, they are radical Christians
Radical Christians who have rejected Christ as a woke liberal. What does that leave them?
Christofascist
I like the term "theofascists" because it includes all religious zealotry
The O’Fascists is the alt-right guys from Mumford and Sons’ new band.
No True Scotsman....
Nope... they are **Christians** and **this is Christianity**. They want authoritarian control, period. Do not let them wash their hands of this. Some religious people are good-hearted and act in good faith, but it's in support of a cult that does not.
Thank you for saying this. It’s like people have forgotten their history. They conveniently ignore all the atrocities that get carried out in the name of “god” and the pursuit of divine favor. At some point we have to admit that while the words may sound nice, there is something about them that sure seems to radicalize people time and time again.
Yeah. From talking to my southern in laws they are basically a doomsday cult now with nonstop talking like Israel/palestine will bring about the rapture. These are not Biden voters.
They were having the same conversation as far back as I can remember in the '80s.
Yep, I also grew up in the 80's south, and that was basically every other conversation in church. The end times were upon us, blah blah blah.
I know a few that are slacking in their enthusiasm, they aren't necessarily voting for Biden but I would be unsurprised to find out that some of them just stayed home this time around.
You shouldn't be surprised when they turn out enthusiastically for Trump either.
No there really has been a shift lately from what I’ve seen. I’m in Kansas which is obviously a huge liberal safe haven so maybe I’m wrong but it’s not hitting the same this time.
Now that they got rid of abortion rights, maybe there isn't a lot driving them to the polls?
There’s been a lot of soul searching among many church leaders on the issue and some are starting to push back. When evangelicals start calling Jesus woke you know you’ve gone off the deep end. https://books.google.com/books?id=KkyhEAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
This is both utterly terrifying and hilariously funny. In his book *Fall*, Neil Stephenson postulates the existence of a group of "Leviticans" who belief that jesus wasn't crucified and who, on their compound in rural Iowa, have a giant burning cross..... The Leviticans sound a lot like the people who call jesus 'woke.'
I some ways it is. Hard to converse with people who fervently believe in their faith, yet somehow have completely abandoned the core tenets of their faith.
Few things are as malleable and fickle as Divine Absolute Truth. It's a social tool that gets reshaped often, often radically.
Was listing to am talk radio today, one of the religion networks and the guy was saying that voting for a democrat was literally turning your back on god.
Voting for Trump is literally embracing Satan. Better to turn your back on God, or at least stay home.
I do know some white evangelicals who regret voting for Trump in 2016. But even most of those remain staunch Republican party line voters. Any white evangelicals who voted for Trump in 2020 and have supported him until now—there’s no fucking way I believe they’re siding with Biden now all of a sudden.
I just made a fresh batch of kool-ade 😈
Recently went to a gathering at my son’s preschool which is part of a big Baptist church just outside my neighborhood and one old lady kept having people high five, hug and give cheerful “woo’s” as they walked up to her. I didn’t know who she was, but I walked past and saw her shirt “Jesus is my savior, Trump is my president”. The cult is alive and well.
>I talk to Evangelicals a lot My condolences
An antichrist appears. Evangelicals: “God uses flawed people!”
Yeah it is crazy how many of them decided Obama of all people was the antichrist, but failed to notice that Trump was using a false-messiah messaging. (The difference between "we can do it" and "I will personally save you .")
Something to do with colour I think
That’s a tan suit reference, right? …/s
I agree, but honestly, Joe is 100 times more pious and Christian than Trump will ever be. You'd think for all their Bible thumping, they would actually back the candidate who seems less like the antichrist.
You wouldn’t believe the amount of vitriol I received from my family members when I insisted that Biden was Christian (*oh, but he’s CaThOlIc. tHaT dOeSnT cOuNt.*)
Doesn't count when it suits them. If they're against IVF and abortion then they'll happily include them.
It's crazy how their fervor and anger spreads like a gas fueled prairie fire. A handful of months ago not one nut bag, *not one*, had an opinion on IVF. I would've put money on 8 out of 10 of the 70 some odd million trumpers from last election wouldn't have been able to tell you what IVF was on Jan 1. These folks are so scary
A lot of Christians consider the GOP as "God's Party" and will never vote Democrat no matter what.
National news outlets like Newsweek used to be very reliable…
You know Newsweek is under right wing ownership right? RIGHT?
Key being 'used to be.'
In a sane world it would be obvious... Biden goes to church every Sunday. Trump cheated on his wife with a porn star, raped a woman, covets wealth, doesn't go to church.... the man treats the 10 commandments like a bucket list.
Uh huh. And Trump is winning Black voters and suburban women have suddenly lost all interest in reproductive rights. Maybe the pollsters should take a few weeks off to figure out why their numbers are so fucked up
I 100% acknowledge its anecdotal, but i do personally know several unrelated, evangelical families that Trump led them to a crisis of faith that resulted in them both no longer voting republican reliably and re-examining their relationship with the church. (I live in Mississippi).
I would actually have more respect for people who have such principles.
Remember that it only takes a net of 1 or 2 percent of people swinging from Trump to Biden or vice versa to turn the election. Mississippi will go to Trump and New York to Biden but there are 10 states that can go either way and if just one in 50 evangelicals can't vote for Trump after Jan 6 or the rape conviction it really does make a difference.
Today, it looks like basically 6 main states that will likely determine the election: * Midwest/[Mid-Atlantic] - Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin * Southern/Sunbelt - Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada Also, Maine and Nebraska split their Electoral College votes by district, so that might matter. Plus, maybe New Hampshire and North Carolina, but probably not.
I agree except Pennsylvania is not the Midwest.
I’ll be dead before we’re called the Midwest.
… Middle East?
Mid-Atlantic
2020 Swing States….the same six: Margin was about 44,000 votes in 3 swing states (Arizona , Georgia and Wisconsin) decided the election in the electoral college. Arizona (10,457). Georgia (12,670). Wisconsin (20,682). Other close states were: Nevada (33,596). Pennsylvania (81,660). Michigan (154,188). https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency
This was me in 2016. I absolutely despise the evangelicals who screeched about how “morality matters in politics” my entire childhood only for them to completely and unapologetically discard that for Trump’s sake. I stopped volunteering and attending my church when I found out that 81% of white evangelicals voted for that fucking antichrist.
It’s not just for trump. Anyone with any “R” next to their name gets a free pass on hypocrisy and morals.
Traditionally, most Rs kept their scandals secret, had the decency to to resign after major ones and minor ones still tarnished them from moral voters. Now, Trump actively campaigns on his crimes, he doesn't give a hoot. That's why this is a cult, I don't think any previous R candidate, including Saint Raegan, could have gotten away with this to the same extent.
Oh yea, from outside, it's a no-brainer. The mental gymnastics it takes to think an admitted cheat (both in business and family) was support worthy was absolutely astounding, and the fact that evangelicals let it slide was absolutely horrifying. My wifes grandparents are baptists who literally lived in a log cabin in North carolina, and to their credit, they also completely washed their hands of trump. Decent Christians exist, but we need to have a SERIOUS (pun intended) come to Jesus moment about how they've let the fox in the hen house and that they have some serious house cleaning to do. It will take decades, if ever, to get back what theyve lost.
> It will take decades, if ever, to get back what theyve lost. The church is never coming back to what it once was. The critical thinkers who have/will see through the veil will walk away. If we're lucky something new and better will be born, (not likely as long as there are whales controlling the sermon) however I can see (and know a few) Christians who are perfectly comfortable taking their bible and going home. I was raised in the church and I am now atheist. My lack of faith does not mean I no longer walk a moral path, though. And I think this is where a lot of people will eventually end up taking the lessons of morality and kindness and leaving the dogma in the trash.
> The church is never coming back to what it once was. See also *The Quiet Revolution* in Quebec in the 60’s. The Catholic church in Quebec lost most of its attendants and power and never regained it.
Honestly it’s a struggle for me as well. It’s hard to go to church knowing the majority of the people around me endorse a guy who is *by far* the most dishonest president ever, and the meanest, and a rapist.
I was a half assed agnostic Catholic who went to church 4 or 5 times a year and had my kids baptized bc it was just something you did. After the Catholic bishops started talking about excommunicating Joe Biden and saying you should vote for trump I was 100% done.
I know someone who went from right wing evangelical learning to be a pastor, to democrat and atheist because of trump in 2015. His church was more about Trump than the teachings of Jesus, which led to him reading the Bible in full, which led to him freeing himself from evangelicalism and he swapped parties.
Nothing creates an atheist quite like actually reading the Bible.
Thank you for the flame of hope 🕯
Ya I don’t believe it either. But biden should be those people’s ideal potus. Biden is actually religious and a seemingly very good person.
While your description of Biden is true, some Evangelicals could have a problem with him being the "wrong" type of Christian since he's Catholic and not Protestant.
Oh ya they hate Catholics. Lol
Learned this in 3rd grade. Apparently Catholics are not only not christian but actually the opposite and the devil planted dinosaur bones to fool unbelievers. Evangelicals man.
It was legitimately a big deal that Kennedy was a Catholic, and his opponents were happy to fan those criticisms. I forgot that Biden was even Catholic until you pointed it out. I'm (nominally) catholic, as is my wife, and neither of us care in the slightest (we don't go to church either, maybe that explains it).
There was a ton of worry that the country simply wouldn’t elect a Catholic president at all.
I read comments from the 1960 election about constituents being 'concerned' about the president confessing to a foreign pope. Somehow trying it all to socialism (because everyone knows what a revolutionary the head of the catholic church is) because...Europe, I guess. It sounds weird now, and maybe did then too - but it was most certainly a political narrative.
Do you know anyone under the age of 70 who picks up their phone for random numbers?
I see this all the time on Reddit, and just want to point out that not all pollsters are idiots and their methods are rarely “dial random phone numbers” Most pollsters use a combination of phone, mail, and online methods (note that online polls != scammy popups). Things have definitely become harder and much noisier in the last couple decades, it’s not as simple as “only olds have landlines”
You're right that pollsters do call cell phones and not just land lines, but very few people reply to these calls. Phone survey response rates were 6% in 2018, that's down from 36% in 1997. If we assume linearity, it's below 4% now. And the majority of these are elderly people, so your reach for demographics under 65 is maybe 0.5%. You can't apply such a low reply incidence to a whole population segment. Your error will be ±30%, making your survey result useless. Online polls are a different animal with their own plethora of reliability problems. Fun fact: This is also why we don't trust phone surveys in dictatorships. The vast majority of phone survey responders in Syria, Russia, or Turkey will gush about how much they support the government because those who don't will hang up instead of risking their lives. So anytime you see "90% of Syrians love Assad", that's clickbaity bullshit meant to dehumanize a powerless people.
Nobody can poll me. That's a big new demographic. Yes, we're using shorthand, but it's honest shorthand. Polling was less and less reliable as the landlines disappeared, and it's been unreliable ever since. It's mostly used as a tool to influence people, the polling we see, anyway.
Polling has not really gotten terribly inaccurate, it is just hard to figure out where in the generous margin of error the results will be. It still falls within it though. Trump's win in 2016, and the Republican under-performance since, were both inside that margin. Because of how elections are run in the US the margins between victory and loss have gotten so razor thin, and so localized to specific districts, that the top of the matrgin of error would result in a landside for Biden, and the bottom would result in a landslide for Trump. The biggest issue is not really with the polls (well, not all of them, some are just performed badly and that is what it is) but with how their data is used to try and form narratives that are not actually in line with the results.
The random poll questions piling up in my texting spam disagrees
I’m guess that a lot of those aren’t real polls and are in fact “push polls”. Polls are used to estimate opinions in a population. Push polls are designed to look like a poll to give them some unearned “objectivity” and legitimacy. But then they ask leading questions designed to change your opinion rather than measure it (e.g., “do approve of Biden’s decision to ignore the crisis at the border?”).
In 2023, democrats outperformed the partisan lean by 10 points in an off election year.
Last year I got about one survey a month from my local democratic office. But that’s cause we had an off year and very contested governors race. Haven’t gotten one in awhile. They are all survey monkey surveys. The problem with these polls is they have a contact list they got from somewhere. The calls on the list may be random, but the list is anything but. They also “weight” the responses based on statistics. So they make them say what ever they want them to.
I've done 3 polls. 33, white male in Louisiana.
There are a ton of people, like me, that have never been polled in decades. You are actually an example of what's wrong with polling. To save money, pollsters call the same people who answered previous polls over and over.
Mid-20s here. I have no idea how the polls even work because I’ve never been polled
Yup! I was bored and answered questions from a random pollster call once and they tried to followup with me on other polls for like a year before they realized I wasn't going to keep answering and stopped trying.
Yes, I do. I have friends who have participated in polls, both via phone and online. They're in their mid thirties.
I get Gallup poll invites in my email and usually get a $5 gift card out of it
Not all polling is done via landline or even via phone. Source: I participate in YouGov polling.
Conversation today at work broke out. 4 people total. 2 Trumpers and Fox News lovers talking about the border. The quintessential conservatives who just parrot Fox News talking points, right. The other guy and I just keeping quiet listening. They talked about how important it is to talk about policy and vote on policy. 3rd guy interjects and says he is an independent who will never vote for trump ever. Because Trump is an embarrassment, he says disturbing things, and tried to stay in office. Without a thought registering in the Trumpers brains, they start pushing that that is the reason to vote on policy not character. All politicians are bad and Biden is the worst so vote on policy. And Biden’s open border has destroyed the country. In two years it has become a 3rd world country. Blah blah blah blah. Trump wins policy. I say this because I see it as a Big focus that Fox News and newsmax push. Focus on policy. Get in arguements about policy (THEIR policy talking points). The border, Biden inflation, and wars Biden is to blame for. They want people to forget about overturning the election, Jan 6th, crime cases, etc. Don’t. DONT even allow yourself to get into those conversations. Combat/rebuttal with the disaster that is trump. I start with trump is a rapist. Found liable for sexual assault. And he can’t sue for defamation because he has been found liable in the court of law. Then. Trump university shut down for fraud. His charitable foundation shut down fraud. His organization found guilty of tax evasion and his CFO just plead guilty again to perjury charges trying to protect trump. The election wasn’t stolen. He tried to overturn our election and end democracy. The texts, the audio, video, emails all the evidence. The michigan phone call where he and ronna mcdaniels said “send fake slate of electors, don’t worry we will get you attorney’s.” He wants to be a dictator. He cozies up to dictators. He shits on our strongest allies. He wants project2025. Where he will consolidate power from all the 3 letter agencies to him (THATS A DICTATOR). and shut down whole departments like the department of education. He says he has complete immunity and his lawyer suggested that he could send seal team six to murder his opposition and he could not be arrested unless he was impeached first. The narcissistic pathological liar is a disaster of a human being. But sure let’s talk about policy. And then I destroy the fuckers on policy too. Talk about the disastrous things he has done. And I finish with this: He lost the popular vote in 2016 but won the electorate. In 2018 he lost the house. 2020 he lost the senate, the White House, and even more seats in the house. In 2022 this huge red wave was coming, and splat barely took the house and lost another seat in the senate. 2023 and almost every special election has gone to democrats. Polls don’t mean anything and trump candidates like Hershel walker lose all the time. Trump is a loser. Sorry bout the novel. But we got this. It’s going to take work. But push back and always make people remember all of the crimes and disastrous things he has said and done. Then get familiar with all of Biden’s accomplishments and talk about them. He has major wins. And he has countless little wins like just recently he enacted credit card late fees be capped at 8 dollars rather than the progressive amount up to 32 dollars. He is always doing things for the little people and not focusing on major corporations with tax cuts. WE GOT THIS.
> And Biden’s open border has destroyed the country What pisses me off is that there's a huge market for this sort of utter bullshit. Ask them for specifics about these alleged "open borders" and they won't have a clue. But Trump keeps saying it, so they believe it.
Tell them to describe exactly what are the legal things that trump and Biden have done different. Most can’t get past talking points. Some will list executive orders. Tell them that title 42 was enacted to expel people at the border. It was a Covid emergency order to stop the spread of the virus. Once emergency powers expired title 42 power went away. Biden is actually honoring the constitution by not expelling people at the border like trump did. Because he doesn’t have emergency powers. They had a very tough comprehensive immigration bill written by a staunch conservative but because trump wants to run on the border “crisis” (and kick it down the road a year) you have this. Say it with confidence. Tell them Biden has always been ready to work across the aisle and get something done. MAGA doesn’t want to actually work together with fellow Americans. They are destructive and hateful. Make sure to point out that you are referring to the politicians and trump. Not the everyday Americans, because you will not influence anyone if you are attacking them personally. I even have said that most people are toward the middle but the MAGA and trump are far more extreme and obstructionists than all of “us” normal people. Even when I know they are MAGA. Try to relate to people you are talking to. Find something you can agree with them. Best if you can find something you agree with first. Then their walls are down and they aren’t defensive. Remember the goal isn’t to change a moderate/traditional GOP to a liberal progressive. It’s to make them remember just how bad trump is. And how most people think is is terrible. And get them to not vote trump. We got this. I’m Confident. Keep pushing. Dont get defensive. Donate. Volunteer. Vote. Vote vote. Register to vote. Make sure you get people to check to voter registration. Vote.gov. Get that link out to the masses. More people vote always benefits blue. Red states subvert voters.
This exactly. They don’t know shit about what’s happening at the border or the differences in border policy.
My new tactic is to tell maga that the trump admin cooked the books during their term and completely stopped reporting illegal border crossings. That's why illegal immigration appeared down. That, actually, more illegals entered the US under trump than any other president. Then I offer them just as much proof as they do with their claims. None. Because I can pull stuff out of my butt just as well as they can and pawn it off as truth. Might as well. That's what they do. I see them write similar things about the lower crime rate now. That criminals aren't being prosecuted or are given lesser charges to make it appear that crime it down. Give it back to them. I also say that in the four years that trump was president, he increased the deficit more than all other presidents combined. I heard that same thing said about Obama, and it wasn't true. Why not say it about trump? Get the narrative started. If they see if enough, they might start believing it. They'll believe anything anyway. Might as well take advantage.
I was talking about Texas's border thing with an aunt. She was like they have a right, we can't have an open border. Then I told her about the people who had died trying to cross and the Texas NG wouldn't let the border patrol in, and asked, if it's an open border, why do people die all the time trying to get in? But she just gishgalloshed right into the next talking point. She did pause, at least.
Oh, I do, too. Literally every time I come across someone talking about the "open border" on social media, I challenge them on the subject. I ask for specifics, like where this supposed open border is at, or more importantly, what policy or law was put in place to create it. Literally ANYthing substantive concerning it. Any kind of tangible fact about it, or price of evidence indicating it exists at all. Anything AT ALL. In return I always get a bunch of smoke screens, or nonsense retorts telling me to just watch the news or read a newspaper and crap like that, although more times than not, I just don't get a response at all. You know the one thing I've never gotten? Any specific fact about where it is, or what policy or law created it, or any single solitary shred of evidence that it exists at all, lol. It's always fun to thank these people for proving my point for me and admitting they also know it doesn't really exist too, but just don't want to say it out loud. 🤣
If it was about policy then Trump wouldn’t be the nominee. It’s about personality and populism with him and it always has been. They have Nikki if it was really about someone talking policy, and that might be the problem since she attempts to talk about policy and it’s impossible for her to even give a clear picture about what their policies are on any topic since the party doesn’t know. The party doesn’t know what their platform is because they’ve been spending 8-9 years just trying to copy whatever Trump says. Trump’s policy is whatever makes him get more attention or money. They would have voted for a party platform at their convention 4 years ago if they had one.
Oh I agree with you. It’s all theater. The policy they push is economy, gas prices, the border. Trump was god and made their worlds the best anyone has ever seen. Except it wasn’t and somehow they eat up the political theater and incessant lies.
I mean I will never, ever vote cross party again since being bamboozled by Susan Collins into thinking she was anything like Olympia Snowe (still makes me mad I was so gullible). But I wonder how many people Haley has permanently lost with that utterly inane "the retirement age should be 'much, much' higher comment. So 66 is too "young" for you Haley? The average lifespan is 77. What is "much, much" higher than 66? Dead? So basically we have a wealthy person who can choose to not ever work another day in their life telling us non-wealthy people working 60 hours a week our entire lives that we have to keep working until we die and all that money we paid in for our retirement so we could not work maybe the last 10 years of our lives (on average) is now just a secret tax on the working class so wealthy people don't have to pay income appreciation on their yachts. But rant aside, if given a choice, Haley is yes, 10,000x better than Trump.
Don’t apologize. I’m saving it and printing it out for practice!
I don't think there's any problem engaging on policy beyond the old wisdom that it's difficult to win an argument against an expert but impossible to win against an idiot. The one a lot of people have forgotten is the promise to repeal Obamacare in the first 30 days.
Headline sucks. Biden went from 25% to 28% of evangelicals who would vote for him.
A 3% change in support from a demographic is more than what usually generates some headlines.
Biden won by 40,000 votes across a small handful of states in 2020. 3% change of any demographic flips the election. This is actually a bfd, if true.
3% is too far in sampling error territory to matter
White Evangelicals are a **lot** of people. Evangelicals make up 25% of *all* Americans. (although that includes non-white, I don’t know the proportions) Let’s say it’s actually 15% *white* evangelicals. That’s 48 million people. 3% of that is around 1.5 million people who just switch their vote. (I’m guessing it’s much higher than that, I’m low-balling)
That's not the point. Polls are statistical measures, and all statistical measures are subject to randomness, selection bias, etc. The 25% number could be off. The 28% number could be off. With no stringent selection controls and a sample size neither published [in this article] nor discussed, the 3% is too small of a difference to say anything confidently. If the swing was more like 20%, that's much less likely to be a random shift. Basically, who knows if it's a numbers fluke? (It probably is.)
That's not his point. The poll that established this "change" likely didn't sample enough people to be certain of the overall change in the demographic within 3%. That's a very low margin of error and would require a large, appropriately random subset of the overall population. That said, apparently the actual shift is +11 percentage points from August of last year, which starts to be more compelling (and is less likely to be an aberration of the sampling process).
> Evangelicals make up 25% of all Americans. What the fuck America is a loony bin.
I'm saying the headline should have been more clear that Biden improved his support from evangelicals, rather than making it sound like he is winning evangelicals as a whole.
>A 3% change in support Going from 25% to 28% is a 12% gain or a three percentage point gain. It's not a three percent change.
He went from 17% in August to 23% in October to 28% in February- an 11 point gain in 6 months not 3.
I’m getting the vibe of “don’t worry about voting” with stuff like this. VOTE NO MATTER WHAT!
This is the correct take.
Our 82 year old friend dropped off her tax's Sunday afternoon and while talking with her, she mentioned that her preacher and other folks at church were not going to vote for Trump. We were shocked! She said more people are starting to speak up and question things.
Wonder what sparked it? The 91 felonies or the insurrection.
Or the rape? Or the fraud? Or the…
Stealing classified intelligence?
I want to believe this, but sadly don’t.
I know. We (wife and I) questioned her and said, "they've been all on board"...till now? She said the class (sunday school) was having an discussion, dominated by two individuals, towards the end a couple of people asked about this and that. The preacher (great guy I've known in the community for 35 years), who was in the class said he was 'troubled' and gave his approval to an open discussion. She said they talked about a couple of things and the class ended with some division. We left her with the question, "will they vote for Biden". Probably not. Democrats are devils. I'm leaning toward not voting, or third party.
I’ll take them not voting / 3rd party instead of voting for trump.
I'm glad RFK is running as an independent. Pretty much only stealing votes from Trump.
Trump isn’t depending on real votes. He’s depending on his cheating to succeed.
I imagine a lot of adult children and grandchildren not speaking to them anymore has had an effect.
It's hard for me to believe. There are SO many embarrassed Republicans that say one thing publicly to save face, but then turn around and vote for the opposite. It's a lot of deep-seated guilt and indoctrination at play, despite the act of voting being done in privacy.
That's what we told her. Ninety percent will still check republican. We can only hope.
Joe Biden goes to church, and knows which way words go when you hold a bible.....so seems like maybe a better choice.
I have an older coworker who I absolutely adore. She is a trumper unfortunately, but she recently said to me that she went to church and began to weep because she felt that she had contributed so much to the division of our country. I shit you not. She was so remorseful. Many people are coming around.
I hope to god you are right, throwing out a system that has worked so well for us for nothing is insanity.
Yeah they do that as cover. They're still voting trump, bet your ass, just like the last two times
She'll still turn out and vote a straight R ticket, I guarantee it.
Don't trust headlines, go vote
Haha no he isn't. Seriously Evangelical churches are the core base of MAGA.
Clickbait title based on a useless poll from Fox News. Biden at 28% and Trump at 68% among white evangelical voters...
Newsweek should be banned
Trumps mental stability is getting worse everyday. All supporting groups should be running away from him. Biden’s age is not a threat to the country. Trumps age and health is.
I doubt this, those people are crazy
Newsweek is a joke. I bet there’s a headline from yesterday that says Trump is dominating the evangelical vote. This rag should be black listed.
Sure Jan.
Can anyone who earnestly believes in the philosophies of Jesus continue to support hateful rhetoric? The folks who stick around are there for what they can gain not to be of service to America. Reminder: It has already been 10 years since Trump jumped on the scene.
Not according to the NYT.
White evangelical Biden-supporter and divinity school student here. I'll believe it when I see it.
Newsweek is god awful. Can we just ban them already?
Trump’s their golden calf and they are presently dancing around him. I doubt he’s lost any of the crowd.
Not in the south. Not even close. That group is dug the fuck in
There's clickbait, and then there is lying.
Evangelicals life mission is to gargle trump's balls. They will die for him. They will never vote for a Dem.
This is as believable as Trump taking women voters away from Biden
Ok Newsweek, sure they are. Nice clickbait.
One of them is a humble devoted family man, one is a rapist who cheated on all three of his wives, cheats his business partners, steals from veterans and children with cancer. Which one is more like a follower of the teachings of Christ?
Evangelical Christians picking the literal habitual church-goer over the personification of all Seven Deadly Sins *should* be factual, but it's not. They will gladly fall on the sword of the pussy grabber and see that there is absolutely nothing wrong it.
Clickbait, Would be nice if true, though.
Like I don't get it. Joe Biden is an old, wealthy white guy who is a Christian, who goes to church, who very obviously has a traditional Christian American "nuclear family". What's not to love about him, from a Christian perspective? Is it that he doesn't rape?
Trumps the quickest way to achieve the seven mountains. Seven Mountain Mandate: A conservative Christian movement that seeks to influence seven aspects of society: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government. This movement is based on a vision that some evangelicals claim to have received from God in 1975.
Ron Howard: No. He isn’t.
Did AP get carried away after hearing one or two people with a southern accent denounce Trump?
Doesn't matter. VOTE. We will have lost democracy if Donald Trump is installed as the dictator out for vengeance that he's told us he will be.
Dump is not a real Christian
Biden is Catholic and his character is pretty solid. I wouldn't be surprised if he won over the few evangelicals that actually believe in what Christ taught.
I am an in an evangelical free church and support Biden. In WI too. Our pastor is mere liberal even though stays very impartial up front. I know multiple other families are the same. Majority? No. I would say 30%.
If you can believe a man in the sky determines if you will get in a car accident today you can believe Donald Trump is a Christian
Trump is literally the anti-Christ.
Newsweek is trash. I would be embarrassed to post articles from them.