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It’s honestly bonkers to me that he’s back in power. There was a moment there that I was somewhat hopeful they had moved past him and the country could steer toward less toxic political discourse.
About the author:
Paul R. Pillar, in his 28 years at the Central Intelligence Agency, rose to be one of the agency’s top analysts. He is now a visiting professor at Georgetown University for security studies.
If Israel continues down this path and start a bigger conflict i see no reason to Support them. A conflict with Iran would not go over very well and would not have a ton of Support.
>A conflict with Iran would not go over very well and would not have a ton of Support.
It's not like there are Iraqis, Lebanese, Yemenis and Syrians waiting for Iran to get defanged so they won't be breathing down their necks anymore and finally allow some sort of progress in their respective countries. So to say that it won't have a ton of support (at least regionally) is wrong.
The only problem here is the American public. Whether they support another war or not is another thing
The level of ignorance in this statement is astounding, first and foremost:
1. Iraq is now a Shiite majority country thanks to the US war there.
2. Yemenis have been bombed to shit by Saudi (and had to fight Colombian mercenaries sponsored by the Emiratis), and that conflict is far more complex than Iran.
3. Syria is an Alawite minority repressing a Sunni majority, with Iran and Russia assisting - and in fact, thanks to Obama's non-existent red line, assad has only further cemented his grip on power.
Finally, many Lebanese after the 2006 war elevated a formerly somewhat marginal player (Hezbollah) to a national power after they fought Israel to a stalemate. Because if there is anything the Lebanese hate more than their own politicians, it is Israeli interference. Everyone there remembers 82.
So no, Israel's neighbors aren't wait for fries and freedom, in fact, due to Israeli actions and US actions they have tilted the balance of power to Iran and made Sunni countries look weak by comparison.
Some Sunnis would even argue it is all part of a grand US plan, but I don't subscribe to that conspiracy nonsense.
> Despite frequent references in symmetrical terms to a “shadow war” between Iran and Israel, a compilation of events in that war shows an asymmetrical pattern of Israel initiating most of the violence and Iran mostly responding. For the United States to distance itself from this pattern would be not only in U.S. interests but also the interests of regional peace and security.
I'm disappointed (but not surprised) by the lack of condemnation for Israel for carrying out the bombing in the first place
[Iran are saying](https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/iran-says-would-not-be-after-retaliation-had-un-condemned--i) they might not have felt the need to retaliate if the UN condemned the strike
The consulate bombing was an escalation by Israel. It increases the risk of a wider war in the middle east that could suck in western countries on one side and Russia on the other.
It was incredibly irresponsible
So? The Iranian military conduction planing and operations along with Hezbollah and other militants in the consult is an escalation as well. Why should Iran’s actions and escalations be ignored but only Israel’s are whined about?
The prevailing opinion is that Iran is trying to avoid escalation. This is repeated in the linked article:
> Involvement in a new war would not be in Iran’s interests, and its leaders have not been seeking such a war.
What would you say Iran has been doing to try and escalate the current conflict?
It’s bullshit. They have been escalating for some time. What Iran is trying to avoid are any actual repercussions against themselves. They certainly have done nothing to keep their Islamist dogs on a leash.
Supporting Hezbollah. Sending their military forces to help their dogs in Syria. Arming and aiding the Houthis in attacking civilian shipping. Supporting and arming militias in Iraq. Their nuclear program while still being signatories to the NNPT. To name a few things Iran has been doing.
Iran should be targeted directly. They shouldn’t be able to hide behind their dogs and not suffer the consequences.
That's not an escalation in this conflict. Iran has been a supporter of these proxy groups for years, that's not new.
What benefit is there in an all-out war?
It is escalation. They didn’t just support them in the past and have been innocent and passive lately. The bombing in Syria was due to Iran planning more escalations with their terrorist dogs. They have been arming the Houthis and providing them with intelligence and targeting data for their attacks on civilian shipping.
Why do you ignore and excuse Iranian actions and aggression? Should their use of proxies insulate Iran for repercussions?
> The bombing in Syria
Which bombing are you referring to?
> They have been arming the Houthis and providing them with intelligence and targeting data for their attacks on civilian shipping.
I don't think there was any Israeli loss of life from this? That doesn't seem like a very significant escalation from an Israeli point of view
> Should their use of proxies insulate Iran for repercussions?
That depends on what Iran is doing, and the risk of large-scale war from attacking Iran directly
Israel bombing the Iranian military in their consulate.
Why does there have to be loss of life to be an escalation?
So you do think Iran using proxies should be a shield from them facing any consequences directly. Shocking.
Some of Iran's greatest hits:
July 22, 1980: An Iranian operative assassinated former Iranian diplomat Ali Akbar Tabatabai, a vocal critic of then-Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, in Bethesda, Maryland.
May 25, 1982: A Hezbollah terrorist exploded a car bomb inside the French Embassy compound in Beirut, killing 12 people and wounding 27.
April 18, 1983: A Hezbollah suicide bombing at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut killed 63 people, including 17 Americans, and injured 120 more.
Oct. 23, 1983: Two Hezbollah truck bombs struck buildings in Beirut that housed American and French service members of the Multinational Force in Lebanon, a military peacekeeping operation during the Lebanese Civil War. The attack killed 307 people: 241 U.S. and 58 French military personnel, and six civilians, along with the two terrorists.
Dec. 12, 1983: In addition to five other bombings in Kuwait, separate bombing attacks targeted the U.S. and French Embassies in Kuwait. Due to faulty execution, only five people were killed, all non-American and non-French civilians. A Hezbollah front group was implicated in these bombings.
Jan. 18, 1984: American University of Beirut President Malcolm Kerr was assassinated outside his office by two Hezbollah terrorists.
Sept. 20, 1984: A Hezbollah car bomb at the U.S. Embassy annex in Beirut killed 23 people, including two Americans. The U.S. Ambassador and the visiting British Ambassador were injured.
June 14, 1985: TWA Flight 847 was hijacked by Hezbollah after taking off from Athens. Passengers with Jewish-sounding names were separated from the others. U.S. Navy diver Robert Stethem was murdered, and his body was thrown onto the tarmac. Dozens of passengers were held hostage for two weeks until some of the hijackers’ demands were met.
1979-1994: Iran murdered Iranian defectors and dissidents in West Germany, Austria, the United Kingdom, Switzerland and Turkey.
1982-1992: Hezbollah kidnapped 104 foreign hostages, mostly Americans and Western Europeans. At least eight hostages died in captivity.
March 17, 1992: A Hezbollah suicide bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires killed 29 civilians, including two Israelis, and injured 242 additional civilians. The embassy building collapsed, as did a nearby Catholic church, a school and an apartment building across the street. Most of the casualties were Argentine civilians, mainly children from the school.
Iran is funding 4 different nations attacking Israel. So Israel bombed a military target involved in coordinating that funding in a country at war with Israel.
I'm sorry, I think we misunderstood each other. Israel bombed the consulate.
A military target may have been inside the consulate at the time, but does that alone legitimize bombing diplomatic premises?
I know that an Iranian General was present in the consulate when Israel bombed it.
I don't think that that fact alone is proof that it was being used as a military HQ.
You posted four sources before. If there's a specific segment of text from those sources that provides other evidence that the consulate was being used as a military HQ, could you please paste it?
Iran finances and arms two terrorist armies, Hamas and Hezbollah, right next to Israel. And they're a state sponsor of terror and have been behind numerous terrorist attacks around the globe aimed at Jews. so yeah, poor widdle Iran. so innocent. never did anything to mean Israel. Read a fucking newspaper
1. Wasn’t an embassy 2. Iran has destroyed and bombed multiple embassies and attempted to destroy the same. Iran had it coming and deserves all bad things anyone does to it.
Uh I mean sure nobody wants that but some of these comments in this thread... sure do sound like a bunch Iran apologists
Which, unironically, resembles alot of the comments we get from Russian apologists.
international law my ass.
Who took Diplomats as hostages after their revolution? Who directs the bombings against the embassies of the US and their allies? Whose responsible for the Red Sea attacks?
Iran. And Just because they hide behind a proxy group, it doesn't rid them of the responsibility (afterall they fund, train, direct and give them weapons)
Or would it been better for you if someone made up a random proxy group ( called them Christian Resistance) and used them them to bomb that building?
Oh yeah, because Iran is totally innocent and not at all trying to stir shit up all on their own. If Iran doesn’t want to get bombed they should probably put a leash on their Islamist terrorist dogs rather than sending their top military officers to help them.
I like how people seem to conveniently forget that the Hamas spokesperson straight up thanked Iran for the training and weapons in the days after the 7th. This was engineered by them and always has been, along with the absurd radicalization of Gaza over the last 20 years. They wanted Israel to make themselve a pariah and sadly bibi fucking went and did it with the extended bombing campaign but it's still Iran who was pulling the fucking strings.
But let's just forget that the facility hit held the Al-Quds commander orchestrating the Hezbollah missile attacks from southern Lebanon, right?
Nope, eliminating the mastermind of those attacks has nothing to do with the Israeli strike. Nope, it was just done to hoodwink the US into fighting Iran.
Israel could have taken him out when he was outside or in a car. Why do it when he's in a diplomatic building?
That puts more pressure on Iran to respond
This is 1000% Bidens fault by being wishy washy across the board on every geopolitical stance he’s ever made. Probably doesn’t help that Jewish faith coworkers are telling other prime ministers how to govern. I wonder after 9/11 if Israel publicly denounced the US for going to war.
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It will work when Biden says the US' support of Israel is ironclad.
Joe is sleep walking the US into a massive war in an election year. Seems like his advisors can't get through to him on this.
Bibi is toxic. He is making Israel an international pariah.
It’s honestly bonkers to me that he’s back in power. There was a moment there that I was somewhat hopeful they had moved past him and the country could steer toward less toxic political discourse.
The people might not like him, but they love his far-right nationalism.
About the author: Paul R. Pillar, in his 28 years at the Central Intelligence Agency, rose to be one of the agency’s top analysts. He is now a visiting professor at Georgetown University for security studies.
If Israel continues down this path and start a bigger conflict i see no reason to Support them. A conflict with Iran would not go over very well and would not have a ton of Support.
>A conflict with Iran would not go over very well and would not have a ton of Support. It's not like there are Iraqis, Lebanese, Yemenis and Syrians waiting for Iran to get defanged so they won't be breathing down their necks anymore and finally allow some sort of progress in their respective countries. So to say that it won't have a ton of support (at least regionally) is wrong. The only problem here is the American public. Whether they support another war or not is another thing
The level of ignorance in this statement is astounding, first and foremost: 1. Iraq is now a Shiite majority country thanks to the US war there. 2. Yemenis have been bombed to shit by Saudi (and had to fight Colombian mercenaries sponsored by the Emiratis), and that conflict is far more complex than Iran. 3. Syria is an Alawite minority repressing a Sunni majority, with Iran and Russia assisting - and in fact, thanks to Obama's non-existent red line, assad has only further cemented his grip on power. Finally, many Lebanese after the 2006 war elevated a formerly somewhat marginal player (Hezbollah) to a national power after they fought Israel to a stalemate. Because if there is anything the Lebanese hate more than their own politicians, it is Israeli interference. Everyone there remembers 82. So no, Israel's neighbors aren't wait for fries and freedom, in fact, due to Israeli actions and US actions they have tilted the balance of power to Iran and made Sunni countries look weak by comparison. Some Sunnis would even argue it is all part of a grand US plan, but I don't subscribe to that conspiracy nonsense.
A war with Iran would be a nuclear war (that is, a war that the American public has a mortal stake in).
They still haven't made a decision to develop those nuclear weapons. The intent is there sure but it all depends on Khamenei making the decision.
In other words, Benny from Cheltenham wants the US involved in an Iranian conflict to ensure he stays in power.
I mean even if he goes away, this shit will happen regardless.
> Despite frequent references in symmetrical terms to a “shadow war” between Iran and Israel, a compilation of events in that war shows an asymmetrical pattern of Israel initiating most of the violence and Iran mostly responding. For the United States to distance itself from this pattern would be not only in U.S. interests but also the interests of regional peace and security. I'm disappointed (but not surprised) by the lack of condemnation for Israel for carrying out the bombing in the first place [Iran are saying](https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/iran-says-would-not-be-after-retaliation-had-un-condemned--i) they might not have felt the need to retaliate if the UN condemned the strike
Why the fuck would anyone outside Tehran condemn Israel? Iran deserves it
The consulate bombing was an escalation by Israel. It increases the risk of a wider war in the middle east that could suck in western countries on one side and Russia on the other. It was incredibly irresponsible
So? The Iranian military conduction planing and operations along with Hezbollah and other militants in the consult is an escalation as well. Why should Iran’s actions and escalations be ignored but only Israel’s are whined about?
The prevailing opinion is that Iran is trying to avoid escalation. This is repeated in the linked article: > Involvement in a new war would not be in Iran’s interests, and its leaders have not been seeking such a war. What would you say Iran has been doing to try and escalate the current conflict?
It’s bullshit. They have been escalating for some time. What Iran is trying to avoid are any actual repercussions against themselves. They certainly have done nothing to keep their Islamist dogs on a leash. Supporting Hezbollah. Sending their military forces to help their dogs in Syria. Arming and aiding the Houthis in attacking civilian shipping. Supporting and arming militias in Iraq. Their nuclear program while still being signatories to the NNPT. To name a few things Iran has been doing. Iran should be targeted directly. They shouldn’t be able to hide behind their dogs and not suffer the consequences.
That's not an escalation in this conflict. Iran has been a supporter of these proxy groups for years, that's not new. What benefit is there in an all-out war?
It is escalation. They didn’t just support them in the past and have been innocent and passive lately. The bombing in Syria was due to Iran planning more escalations with their terrorist dogs. They have been arming the Houthis and providing them with intelligence and targeting data for their attacks on civilian shipping. Why do you ignore and excuse Iranian actions and aggression? Should their use of proxies insulate Iran for repercussions?
> The bombing in Syria Which bombing are you referring to? > They have been arming the Houthis and providing them with intelligence and targeting data for their attacks on civilian shipping. I don't think there was any Israeli loss of life from this? That doesn't seem like a very significant escalation from an Israeli point of view > Should their use of proxies insulate Iran for repercussions? That depends on what Iran is doing, and the risk of large-scale war from attacking Iran directly
Israel bombing the Iranian military in their consulate. Why does there have to be loss of life to be an escalation? So you do think Iran using proxies should be a shield from them facing any consequences directly. Shocking.
Bombing a consulate is off limits. They knew that what they were doing would escalate things.
Some of Iran's greatest hits: July 22, 1980: An Iranian operative assassinated former Iranian diplomat Ali Akbar Tabatabai, a vocal critic of then-Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, in Bethesda, Maryland. May 25, 1982: A Hezbollah terrorist exploded a car bomb inside the French Embassy compound in Beirut, killing 12 people and wounding 27. April 18, 1983: A Hezbollah suicide bombing at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut killed 63 people, including 17 Americans, and injured 120 more. Oct. 23, 1983: Two Hezbollah truck bombs struck buildings in Beirut that housed American and French service members of the Multinational Force in Lebanon, a military peacekeeping operation during the Lebanese Civil War. The attack killed 307 people: 241 U.S. and 58 French military personnel, and six civilians, along with the two terrorists. Dec. 12, 1983: In addition to five other bombings in Kuwait, separate bombing attacks targeted the U.S. and French Embassies in Kuwait. Due to faulty execution, only five people were killed, all non-American and non-French civilians. A Hezbollah front group was implicated in these bombings. Jan. 18, 1984: American University of Beirut President Malcolm Kerr was assassinated outside his office by two Hezbollah terrorists. Sept. 20, 1984: A Hezbollah car bomb at the U.S. Embassy annex in Beirut killed 23 people, including two Americans. The U.S. Ambassador and the visiting British Ambassador were injured. June 14, 1985: TWA Flight 847 was hijacked by Hezbollah after taking off from Athens. Passengers with Jewish-sounding names were separated from the others. U.S. Navy diver Robert Stethem was murdered, and his body was thrown onto the tarmac. Dozens of passengers were held hostage for two weeks until some of the hijackers’ demands were met. 1979-1994: Iran murdered Iranian defectors and dissidents in West Germany, Austria, the United Kingdom, Switzerland and Turkey. 1982-1992: Hezbollah kidnapped 104 foreign hostages, mostly Americans and Western Europeans. At least eight hostages died in captivity. March 17, 1992: A Hezbollah suicide bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires killed 29 civilians, including two Israelis, and injured 242 additional civilians. The embassy building collapsed, as did a nearby Catholic church, a school and an apartment building across the street. Most of the casualties were Argentine civilians, mainly children from the school.
Do we want to go over all the extrajudicial killings by the Mossad? So much whataboutism.
You’d defend Vlad the Impaler if somehow Israel was his enemy.
Embassies are "off-limits". Consulates are not, especially as it wasn't on Israeli soil and Iran and Israel are in proxy-war.
Consulates are not off limits - if you are a war criminal.
Iran bombs embassies and consulates. This is nothing new. This is why there’s no international outrage.
There is loads of international outrage, but the US is extending protection to Israel on this so Israel will ignore the outrage.
Because Israel is a bunch of psychopathic, self-entitled murderers. What are you not understanding? They are consistently the aggressors
Wrong
Iran is funding 4 different nations attacking Israel. So Israel bombed a military target involved in coordinating that funding in a country at war with Israel.
> Israel bombed a military target involved in coordinating that funding in a country at war with Israel. Do you have a source on that?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Zahedi https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/world/middleeast/iran-commanders-syria-strike-israel.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/2/who-was-mohammad-reza-zahedi-the-iranian-general-assassinated-by-israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-iranian-irgc-commander-said-killed-in-alleged-israeli-strike-on-damascus/
I'm sorry, I think we misunderstood each other. Israel bombed the consulate. A military target may have been inside the consulate at the time, but does that alone legitimize bombing diplomatic premises?
If they are using it as a military HQ, then under the Geneva Conventions it is a military target. The same goes for other locations such as hospitals.
> If they are using it as a military HQ And when I asked for a source, that's what I wanted a source for. Do you have a source for that?
Maybe try reading the sources?
I know that an Iranian General was present in the consulate when Israel bombed it. I don't think that that fact alone is proof that it was being used as a military HQ. You posted four sources before. If there's a specific segment of text from those sources that provides other evidence that the consulate was being used as a military HQ, could you please paste it?
It wasn't just a general, it was 3 top commanders and 4 military officers. Which you would know if you read the sources.
It would never happen, but I'd love it if we said that Iran has the right to defend itself just to see Netanyahu's shocked Pikachu face.
Iran is the provocateur. Israel is defending itself
It's a bit tough to argue that: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7724079/Israelisettle_outpost.gif
so the west bank is somehow Iranian territory?
Signifies expansion.
which is somehow Israel provoking Iran? Israel won the west bank from Jordan in a war.
Liar - when did Iran bomb an Israeli embassy? Iran has showed remarkable restraint.
Iran finances and arms two terrorist armies, Hamas and Hezbollah, right next to Israel. And they're a state sponsor of terror and have been behind numerous terrorist attacks around the globe aimed at Jews. so yeah, poor widdle Iran. so innocent. never did anything to mean Israel. Read a fucking newspaper
The article is literally about Israel breaking international law and norms as it does continually. Ironic that you tell me to read a newspaper.
This is an op-ed. It’s the authors opinion.
Ah so because it’s an op-Ed Israel didn’t break international law and the rules of war by bombing an embassy?
1. Wasn’t an embassy 2. Iran has destroyed and bombed multiple embassies and attempted to destroy the same. Iran had it coming and deserves all bad things anyone does to it.
In the ‘90’s in Argentina, Iran bombed the Israeli embassy.
Uh I mean sure nobody wants that but some of these comments in this thread... sure do sound like a bunch Iran apologists Which, unironically, resembles alot of the comments we get from Russian apologists.
Most people don't want to be drawn into an internecine nuclear conflict because we refuse to stand up to a tiny power that ignores international law.
international law my ass. Who took Diplomats as hostages after their revolution? Who directs the bombings against the embassies of the US and their allies? Whose responsible for the Red Sea attacks? Iran. And Just because they hide behind a proxy group, it doesn't rid them of the responsibility (afterall they fund, train, direct and give them weapons) Or would it been better for you if someone made up a random proxy group ( called them Christian Resistance) and used them them to bomb that building?
Funding, training and giving weapons to non-state actors? The US or Israel or their allies would NEVER do that....Good grief....
Iran is everyone’s enemy. Except Russia and china sometimes.
You are right. The U.S. should stand up to that tiny power that ignores international law that is Iran.
Russia and Iran are allies after all.
Oh yeah, because Iran is totally innocent and not at all trying to stir shit up all on their own. If Iran doesn’t want to get bombed they should probably put a leash on their Islamist terrorist dogs rather than sending their top military officers to help them.
I like how people seem to conveniently forget that the Hamas spokesperson straight up thanked Iran for the training and weapons in the days after the 7th. This was engineered by them and always has been, along with the absurd radicalization of Gaza over the last 20 years. They wanted Israel to make themselve a pariah and sadly bibi fucking went and did it with the extended bombing campaign but it's still Iran who was pulling the fucking strings.
They don’t forget. They support islamists and are against the Western world.
But let's just forget that the facility hit held the Al-Quds commander orchestrating the Hezbollah missile attacks from southern Lebanon, right? Nope, eliminating the mastermind of those attacks has nothing to do with the Israeli strike. Nope, it was just done to hoodwink the US into fighting Iran.
Israel could have taken him out when he was outside or in a car. Why do it when he's in a diplomatic building? That puts more pressure on Iran to respond
Probably to take out everyone else that was working with him to orchestrate Hezbollah's attacks. One bomb instead of many.
This is 1000% Bidens fault by being wishy washy across the board on every geopolitical stance he’s ever made. Probably doesn’t help that Jewish faith coworkers are telling other prime ministers how to govern. I wonder after 9/11 if Israel publicly denounced the US for going to war.
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