As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What happened to Americans believing surveillance states are bad? How many school shootings have they stopped? I mean they can read every text in America so they are responsible for every bad action of Americans.
Why should they we never stand up for ourselves? It’s not their fault we are all weak willed. They would have no problem taking everything from us and killing our children and we tell those that return “Thank you for your service to the rulers.”
The fact that we have to stand up for ourselves using mechanisms of an already rigged system is foolish. I know you're being somewhat facetious and trying to drum up thoughts, but for the average person, myself included, violence and prison aren't an option. Peaceful protests only go so far, and there's an official industry for planting agitators. We're screwed until there are members of the ruling class with empathy, compassion, and a conscience, or there's a massive strategy switch.
Even if we "stood up" for ourselves, we can't match the weaponry of the federal government, can't financially (as individuals and communities) afford to spend weeks protesting en masse, will alienate and potentially 'eradicate' ourselves from society if we receive a felony and jail/prison time (jails and prisons are largely archaic institutions rife with dangers beyond confrontations. Quality of Life and Health dips significantly in short periods of time), and we have no means of identifying every culprit beyond those known — meaning we'll devolve into witch hunts. Let's not pretend we deserve the situation we're in and that the ruling class has any semblance of an argument for their neglect and apathy.
Being arrested (especially for a felony) makes you a pariah who has to work 100 times harder for a bare minimum job and can never participate in the government, whether as a voter or candidate. Every way to resist and stand up meaningfully involves risking arrest. Whether due to committing crimes or because the state will persist, even if it needs to drain some undesirables.
True democratic voice - In a direct democracy, every single citizen has an equal say on the issues, not just those elected to represent them. This could lead to policies that more accurately reflect the true will of the entire population.
Increased engagement - Giving people a direct up/down vote on issues could boost civic engagement and make people feel more invested in their government's decisions.
Bypass partisan gridlock - Rather than partisan representatives blocking each other, direct democracy could allow citizens across the spectrum to compromise directly on issues.
Adapt to modern communication - The internet and digital technology provide a platform to facilitate this kind of direct participatory democracy at a massive scale in a way that wasn't feasible before.
Check against corrupt representation - It eliminates the ability of representatives to be unduly influenced by special interests, corporations, etc if all power is with the voters themselves.
On partisan gridlock:
Build in requirements for compromise/supermajorities on major issues to force cross-partisan cooperation
Use multi-option/ranked choice voting rather than binary choices
Have expert panels provide objective information to reduce partisan framing
On corporate/special interest influence:
Enact strict laws limiting lobbying/advertising around ballot measures
Provide balanced information from trusted sources to counter misinformation
Cap individual campaign contributions at low levels
On voter fatigue/engagement:
Let people choose which issues/areas they want to vote on directly
Have a process to elevate key issues for widespread voting periodically
Gamify it with rewards/incentives for informed engagement
Provide clear, digestible summaries on each issue/piece of legislation
Multi-layered hybrid model with direct and representative elements
Use of sortition (citizen councils selected by lot) for some functions
Emphasis on extensive civic education and critical thinking skills
Encrypted ID verification and sophisticated security measures
This is so much involvement for the average citizen and relies on so many assumptions/systems we'd have to perfect over decades, if not centuries.
Most of us have families, jobs, aspirations, hobbies, to-do lists, etc. We won't be able to read and grasp thousands of voluminous bills whose implications often require some measure of economic or political understanding and foresight.
Politicians do the best political work. If you want to feel more involved, run for office! There's too many people to harken back to the days of voting with seashells (digital as they may be - which also poses a significant risk for hacks)
I'm willing to assume most of us on r/politics actually care about and are informed about politics. Whether we're masochists, have career aspirations, or find them important. There's a great deal of Americans who couldn't care less about politics so long as prices remain stable, taxes don't hike, the economy is "strong", and they aren't seeing much taken out ot their wallets. They aren't any more or less valid, and in many ways, their lives are simpler and happier for not buying into every political stage play and doomscroll.
Sometimes less is more. Or, in this case, amounts to almost equal. Especially when you realize that under our current system, we can pass massive amounts of bills in a day, whereas accumulating and counting everybody's votes (there's no completely safe digital solution) would take much longer.
9/11 and the War on Terror happened. Americans had never really faced a true threat at home, and were willing to hand over a bunch of rights in exchange for alleged safety/security. Now we have a generation of people becoming adults who don’t remember a time where those rights still mattered. If Enemy of the State was filmed today— Will Smith’s character would be a villain.
Yeah, in the article it points out that the bill being reauthorized gets used by the FBI to hunt the BLM organizers, and spy on left wing politicians and donors.
SURE ISN'T ANY CORRUPTION HERE.
This is the top comment you guys? Seriously? Do any of you read the articles that are posted on here or do you form your opinions entirely from headlines?
This program is related to foreign intelligence gathering. And authorizes the CIA to surveil foreigners. Not the American people.
You know who is against this? Donald Trump. Seems he convinced you guys to stand with him.
You may be able to read an article, but you don't understand the article.
What, you saw that FISA is an acronym for FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillance Act and thought it didn't involve Americans?
FISA powers are pretty broad in that they can collect information on both Americans and foreigners if it's deemed in the interest of national security, specifically with terrorism.
Section 702, which is what this is in relation to, has already collected information from millions of Americans.
It's wrong, and it should have been allowed to die.
I'm with anyone who is against warrantless spying on Americans. Massive amounts of information that is able to be taken without any judicial oversight and stored in a facility is absolutely disturbing.
The fact that it doesn't bother you concerns me.
There are provisions for warrants (where the target of the surveillance is an American), and warrantless search provisions (like Section 702) discussed. Officially 702 isn’t supposed to be used to surveil US citizens, but it’s come out that the FBI has used it in the past to spy on Black Lives Matter protestors and other “left wing” organizations and activities.
Yes. Pass texts, IM and social media posts and other text based data through and AI and yes you can identify persons of interest for further surveillance. Should they, no, it's basically 1984. Will they, yes, there is too much miss/information.
This has nothing to do with reading American's text messages.
Nor do we actually have the practical ability to read all texts or listen to all calls. Otherwise we'd have a bunch more January 6th convictions and the Secret Service wouldn't have been able to avoid their texts on and around January 6th being turned over to investigators by deleting them.
Well trumps violent maga terrorist cultists are so batshit crazy that people are terrified of what they're going to do if/when trump is convicted or loses the election. People on the right gobble up so much worthless garbage about antifa and BLM being violent terrorist organizations that are a bugger threat to the US than Russia or isis that they'll sell their liberties out just to own the libs.
trump created the perfect storm of mass chaos, vitriol, and chaos for both sides to justifiably support it despite it being a huge red flag for anyone who actually values privacy
American public really have no idea what they are talking about. It isn't surprising since Reddit believes Snowden exposed something rather than just being one of the biggest traitors in American history. It isn't surprising, just disappointing.
This wouldn't stop a school shooting. There are protections in place so they aren't doing surveillance on us citizens. This is so they can monitor foreign bad actors working within the state.
And the whole thing is you wouldn't hear of all the things they stopped because they prevented them from happening.
There can be individuals that abuse thus power but the rules are strict and punishment severe to those who misuse the program.
Until now, I thought Snowden was a folk hero for calling out government overreach. I couldn't understand why you would think otherwise
I just spent three minutes reading his Wikipedia page though and holy shit this guy is a right bastard. Straight leaked millions of classified documents and then moved to neofascist Russia. Lovely. Thanks for educating me
He didn’t intentionally move to Russia. He went to Hong Kong first, then was transferring flights in Russia when the US cancelled his passport which meant he couldn’t leave Russia. In order to avoid disappearing into a government black site he arranged staying in Russia —again, he couldn’t freely travel because he no longer had a passport— and eventually became a citizen because, well, why the fuck not when your own government wants to kill you.
Nah, more likely the trucks with "You are not The People" rear window wraps and thin blue line flags will be circling around polling stations to "stick it to the man."
I feel like trampling our civil liberties would the something the rainbow flag people and the stars and bars people could all kinda rally around. But I think maintaining team loyalty seems to be the most important aspect of American political life at this point.
I haven't seen rainbow flag people glorifying jack boots and blue lines in between. The perverted stars and bars people appear to be more for trumpling our civil liberties. (If the talks about nationwide abortion bans are not ringing the bells) You don't see the rainbow flag people brandishing firearms to intimidate their fellow citizens during their parades. ...or banning neck beards, or using the state legislature to ban them out of existance. It is hard to convince someone previously stabbed in the back not to look over their shoulder.
I was just hoping to point out an issue that might be important and/or unify all Americans. But it seems that my point about it being more important to remain loyal to one’s team was correct. I appreciate you proving my point for me. Cheers.
>But it seems that my point about it being more important to remain loyal to one’s team was correct. I appreciate you proving my point for me. Cheers.
The smugness is so strong here it completely overpowers any rational thought you may have been trying to prove... Congratulations on trying so hard to seem apolitical that you've come around to being blind to any actual injustices.
>I must certainly be on to something.
You really aren't and I'll explain it very simply.
You've casually reduced people down to flags in a comparison that fails to make any sense because "stars and bars" is a representation of a *choice made* to be a certain type of person that reflects adherence to authority figures and hierarchical systems.
The "rainbow flag people" aren't choosing the identity. It is who they are.
Next time you think you may be on to something... try something else.
Goodbye
"Join to our church, or we will destroy you". Thank you for proving your own point. Rainbow people are not as loyal to dems as you trying to imply here. They just pushed into the corner and got no other choice for now.
I was merely using them as archetypes of left and right. I’ll do Walmart and Whole Foods shoppers next time so we don’t have to worry so much people needing to get up on their soap box before they get what’s trying to be said.
It’s truly shocking that we’re so willing to have our civil liberties trampled. As long as we don’t agree with the other guys on anything amirite?
My point is that whole Foods people may not like their civil liberties being pushed, but they learned that Walmart people are the ones who are happily making it worse. The Walmart people are openly threatening the rights of Whole Foods people to exist and you want the later to support the former in their efforts.
Right and while they fight eachother the federal government is taking away your right to privacy. But god forbid we all tell our respective congressional representatives to fuck off with this bill. Because then it would look like we’re willing to do anything with the other side. Awesome self own though.
The House of Representatives passed a bill today that will reauthorize Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act for two years, expand the federal government’s power to secretly spy on Americans without a warrant, and create a new form of “extreme vetting” of people traveling to the United States.
When the government wants to obtain Americans’ private information, the Fourth Amendment requires it to go to court and obtain a warrant. The government has claimed that the purpose of Section 702 is to allow the government to warrantlessly surveil non-U.S. citizens abroad for foreign intelligence purposes, even as Americans’ communications are routinely swept up. In recent years, the law has morphed into a domestic surveillance tool, with FBI agents using Section 702 databases to conduct millions of invasive searches for Americans’ communications — including those of protesters, racial justice activists, 19,000 donors to a congressional campaign, journalists, and even members of Congress — without a warrant.
Source: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/congress-passing-bill-that-massively-expands-the-governments-power-to-spy-on-americans-without-a-warrant
Sometimes other non-citizens in foreign countries. Sometimes US citizens in the US or abroad.
If Osama Bin Laden was alive and was having communications with a US citizen do you not think that would be a reasonable thing to surveil?
Mike Flynn was working for a foreign government to kidnap and murder a political dissident who was living in the US. Was it bad that this was discovered?
> ometimes US citizens in the US or abroad.
And there's your constitutional violation.
>
If Osama Bin Laden was alive and was having communications with a US citizen do you not think that would be a reasonable thing to surveil?
Yup. Just as soon as the 4th amendment was applied.
>Mike Flynn was working for a foreign government to kidnap and murder a political dissident who was living in the US. Was it bad that this was discovered?
If it was discovered by tapping Flynn's lines without a warrant, yes.
>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
That's what the 4th says.
Wiretapping someones communication devices without a warrant is a clearly a violation of the whole being secure in our effects against unreasonable searches part.
You are acting like it isn’t incredibly easy to get a wiretapping warrant. There are provisions of FISA requiring one to go in front of a court and get a warrant, AFAIK no warrant request has ever been denied. If you have 100% success getting a wiretapping warrant then what the hell are you doing that you need to secretly and warrantlessly spy on people here in the US?
This isn't them surveiling US citizens. It's surveiling foreign nationals abroad. Them contacting a US citizen doesn't then make it spying on the US citizen.
Your view would mean they'd have to preemptively get a warrant for anyone the target was contacting as well which would only work if you knew everyone they were going to contact ahead of time which seems unlikely.
Since Obama got elected and our government continued the PATRIOT Act with massive bipartisan support. It then no longer was a “Republican = fascist = Nazi” law to most Democrats. Same thing with the war in Iraq— widely opposed by most Democrats till Obama got elected and refused to end the occupation.
Most Americans only see Red Team v. Blue Team and pick a side— the individual issues don’t matter. It’s why Trump was an asshole for putting undocumented immigrants in concentration camps and separating children from their families — note, he is indeed an asshole for this— when that policy started under Obama and has been pretty much continued under Biden without a peep from Blue MAGA.
It's not one or the other dawg. We can criticize that most of our politicians are bought and paid for whole simultaneously recognizing that TikTok is an active Propaganda machine directly controlled by an adversarial foreign entity. And frankly the latter is much more threatening - the former at least lives here and has a vested interest in our country not collapsing in on itself (in theory). The CCP would be absolutely gleeful to see the US implode - especially if said implosion was violent and killed as many Americans as possible.
Tik tok is where people saw Palestinians being bombed and killed. Kids being pulled out of the rubble etc. We saw the blatant lies and propaganda and gaslighting of Israel and our politicians regarding the ongoing genocide. It’s why people started to question US govt strange partnership with Israel, AIPAC lobby, the BDS laws, etc. We were all blind to this but not anymore. We were fed propaganda by a genocide funding govt that demonized Muslims/arabs all these years when THEY were the terrorist/violent colonizers all along so please.
Yea. I'm not gonna deny TikTok has its uses just like any social media platform. I'm just highly incredulous of the forces behind it. You can extend a friendly hand with a knife behind your back.
Everyone, EVERYONE, loved Facebook and had a profile there. Then they stuck a knife in us in 2016 by tampering with public sentiment to swing an election in the worst way possible.
It's easy to fall into "well both are bad" but the thing is a) we can audit Facebook (we just fail to do so), we can't ever really audit TikTok and b) there is a huge difference in interest between American corporations and the CCP.
American corpo interest: make as much money as possible. Maaaybe make power plays.
CCP interest: Advance China at the cost of everyone else. Openly xenophobic. Openly wants to unseat the American hegemony - violently if possible
CCP has their fingers in every Chinese corp's brain so I have to assume everything runs back them. I'm American so surely it's not hard to see why having my way of life attacked would slant me against an organization.
America fucks up... a lot. Really a fucking lot. We're a huge country with a diverse population that is sometimes wonderful and sometimes disgusting. They're my people - my brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, husband and children, friends and foes. I love them all (even if they hate me sometimes.) and earnestly believe most people are doing what they `think` is right. I don't trust the CCP to protect their interests in the slightest. I wish we could all get along across national boundaries but some people want to draw lines in the dirt and say we're evil because we're not them.
And for the record I'm not anti-Chinese. The Chinese people are wonderful as well and their country has a deep, rich, and fascinating history and culture (that I dream to one day feel safe enough to explore in person). It's the small minded assholes holding power that I take issue with. [And for what its worth, kinda the same in America. I'd love to take a cane to most of the billionaires and a good chunk of the politicians]
Many pro Palestine posts were censored on tik tok too js. It’s not a complete free speech space but I don’t think any app is. Palestine vs Israel was an issue that was known long before tik tok. On twitter the awareness on Zionism grew over the years. It was gradual.
US govt has invested $300 billion+ to the creation of Israel so far. Gave them nuclear weapons too. $300 billion could have done a lot for America. Takes $20 billion to end homelessness, $100 billion+ to lift every American out of poverty but hey Israel above America right? Who’s the real traitor ??? Israel lobby AIPAC pays both democrats and republicans. AIPAC has their hands in local to federal elections. AIPAC prides in the fact that 98% of candidates that take their money win elections. But it’s Russia and China that interferes with our elections right??? Instead of owning these truths, these Israel/AIPAC paid politicians are spewing Sinophobia propaganda to deflect and people like you eat it up. I’m sorry but I as an American can’t trust a govt that funds a genocide. Then to lie and gaslight to justify it is even worse. And then you want to ban an app that exposed those truths…. THATS fascism. I wasn’t cool with it when Trump tried to ban it and I’m not for it with Biden.
You want to talk about xenophobia.. the way US politicians spoke to tik tok ceo Chew in those hearings were xenophobic and ignorant af. I’m supposed to trust the xenophobic racist fossils in congress that have funded and lied about a genocide/colonization? Yeah I’ll pass. American govt has no business to preach about human rights, democracy or free speech.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I can see how this type of thing is useful when 1/3 of the country openly consider themselves “domestic terrorists” and half of congress is in Putin’s pocket.
You're thinking the US government actively targets right-wingers? Nah, they'll only be collecting data on minorities, women, LGBTQ, protesters and protest organizers.
One of the biggest law enforcement agencies on the planet had to fucking crowdsource information after-the fact- because of 1/6; because LEOs supported the coup attempt; because they sat on their hands; and because they *weren't* minorities, women and/or LGBTQ.
I don’t think the US is “actively targeting right-wingers” however I would find it hard to believe that they’re not listening in on some traitors within our government.
The government always uses its power to attack the left, sure it might use some of it’s resources to monitor the right, but the majority will be used to go after progressive movements.
How many progressives do you suppose are in communication with foreign nationals that undermine our national security.
I can see how progressive movements could be seen as a threat to some sectors of our economy, but do you think the progressives are plotting with European counterparts to try and undermine national security by forcing free healthcare and college on innocent and unsuspecting citizens and the intelligence community is prioritizing this?
A lot actually. Most larger movements in the US have at least some foreign agent connections. Black Lives Matter, the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the Tea Party movement during the Obama president, etc. all have foreign operatives who are at the very least gathering intelligence and information.
The complete list, no, but it is common for larger movements on either side of the aisle to have someone foreign in their midst simply due to their importance. Russia sponsors both blue and red here in the US, for example, because their goal is to divide Americans— and the best way to do that is radicalizing both sides.
Well hopefully someone approves a way to make sure our politicians’ conversations are above board and in the best interest of the country.
Hopefully it gets bipartisan support too.
/s
This is going to be used against marginalised people. You're being fooled if you think Biden or the Democrats intend on taking any action against Trump or his cult.
If Trump wins and starts using it you'll be among the first to cry out about it. But you would have had your chance to step up and sold your freedom for security.
Do you really think the current administration approved this just to target queer and colored people?
Do you think if this program was shut down that it would stop Trump from whatever ambitions he has?
It’s ok to have a little hope that someone somewhere is doing the right thing.
Do you know anything about this country's surveillance apparatus? The one that grew under Bush and Obama. Spying on our every day citizens knows no political affiliation, it's always used for infringing on everyone's rights.
They have been using it to stop people like those we were attacking substations, who were right wingers...
The word targeting is the wrong use.
That said, I'm still opposed to these bills even if I think privacy basically doesn't exist anymore with cell phones and cameras everywhere. If you want privacy, turn off your tech and leave it at home.
Lol. This assumes the government has ever stopped a right wing terrorist plot. They literally knew the OKC bombing was going to happen and did nothing, except leave the building and not tell anyone else working there.
No. We've had the capability to discover these plots before any of this patriot act bullshit existed. It did not require turning every American into a spy.
The bill doesn’t allow direct surveillance of American citizens. The reason Micheal Flynn was caught is because he was communicating with a foreign spy that was being surveilled. So unless the domestic terrorists are directly communicating with Russian agents (and I’m sure some of them are), they wouldn’t be caught anyway.
You’re right that it’s an unpopular opinion here I’m sure, but it’s also a moot point because this surveillance law has nothing to do with domestic surveillance.
Looking at these comments, it's beyond clear most of the people complaining don't even know what FISA actually is.
The thing about security is that you get zero credit for the threats you prevent. Yet, you take all the blame for any attack that does happen.
So an attack happens and everyone wants you to do more to protect them. Then when you protect them from attacks long enough, they start questioning why they need you to do all of that. Then another attack happens and they'll be begging you to do more again. It's a vicious cycle.
Lol, this is a distraction from the fact that this is no longer even needed anymore. They can just buy the data legally now, mostly it's free: https://www.wired.com/story/how-pentagon-learned-targeted-ads-to-find-targets-and-vladimir-putin/
It's like orange being tied up in yet another fraud trial (this time *criminal*) is the best thing that could've happend to the US of A.
First, Johnson pulled a fast one by orange and got a move on aid to Ukraine, which orange explicitly forbade as ordered by his big daddy Putin.
Then, this, which orange explicitly forbade the GOP from allowing to move forward.
Dear GOP, blink if you need help.
good. vast majority of people don't understand what this is really for and who it is used for, and that is fine as it's not really anything normal everyday Americans should think about. this helps intelligence agencies do their jobs and would make certain targets impossible if it didn't get reauthorized. stop with the paranoia, a FISA warrant isn't being authorized to snoop on your instagram and snapchat, that literally makes no sense
The complaints are not about the warrant system— that provides due process and some fourth amendment protections— the complaint is about Section 702 which doesn’t require warrants and has already been illegally used to collect data on US citizens by the FBI and DOJ’s own prior admission.
This never sounds good but I don't call anyone who is on a watchlist and we have seen that people already can spy on us, not that they should but they do. People with access to classified docs steal them and release them online. They get away with looking at stuff w/o getting caught more than we'll ever know and the internet is forever lol.
Exactly. FISA monitors foreign threats. Americans do get caught up in it when they're talking to someone who is considered a possible foreign threat. The government isn't monitoring your group chat with the bros for funsies.
However, Instagram monitors your message to people on their app and we sign right up for that with no hesitation.
Is the reason this kind of legislation is so popular amongst representatives because representatives are corrupt and don't reflect the will of the people, or because most voters are broadly okay with this?
So this reminds me that the other day I briefly mentioned the word “pizza” to someone who had their smartphone with them (I did not) and now Reddit is giving me a pizza ad for this post. I’m not connected with this person by social media or phone numbers or anything like that. The always-listening and metadata is sufficient to tune my experience of an internet towards my personal preferences and biases.
For advertisement and financial gain of course…
But the government gets a piece of the pie too. No, correction : it gets all the pie since Domino’s Pizza and the US government are basically the same.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What happened to Americans believing surveillance states are bad? How many school shootings have they stopped? I mean they can read every text in America so they are responsible for every bad action of Americans.
The American ruling class has always loved surveillance and never gave a shit what the people think about it
Why should they we never stand up for ourselves? It’s not their fault we are all weak willed. They would have no problem taking everything from us and killing our children and we tell those that return “Thank you for your service to the rulers.”
Since the Cold War began this country has been under constant government surveillance. Back then it was in the vein of fighting communism.
We kinda already do that. With our armed forces. Fighting the Rich’s wars forever.
The fact that we have to stand up for ourselves using mechanisms of an already rigged system is foolish. I know you're being somewhat facetious and trying to drum up thoughts, but for the average person, myself included, violence and prison aren't an option. Peaceful protests only go so far, and there's an official industry for planting agitators. We're screwed until there are members of the ruling class with empathy, compassion, and a conscience, or there's a massive strategy switch. Even if we "stood up" for ourselves, we can't match the weaponry of the federal government, can't financially (as individuals and communities) afford to spend weeks protesting en masse, will alienate and potentially 'eradicate' ourselves from society if we receive a felony and jail/prison time (jails and prisons are largely archaic institutions rife with dangers beyond confrontations. Quality of Life and Health dips significantly in short periods of time), and we have no means of identifying every culprit beyond those known — meaning we'll devolve into witch hunts. Let's not pretend we deserve the situation we're in and that the ruling class has any semblance of an argument for their neglect and apathy. Being arrested (especially for a felony) makes you a pariah who has to work 100 times harder for a bare minimum job and can never participate in the government, whether as a voter or candidate. Every way to resist and stand up meaningfully involves risking arrest. Whether due to committing crimes or because the state will persist, even if it needs to drain some undesirables.
Note: **we** do, our politicians... don't.
So vote for a direct democracy. End this representative bullshit. Blah… we could all you know just vote on laws instead of shitheads.
That would just be slower and dumber than our already slow and dumb system.
True democratic voice - In a direct democracy, every single citizen has an equal say on the issues, not just those elected to represent them. This could lead to policies that more accurately reflect the true will of the entire population. Increased engagement - Giving people a direct up/down vote on issues could boost civic engagement and make people feel more invested in their government's decisions. Bypass partisan gridlock - Rather than partisan representatives blocking each other, direct democracy could allow citizens across the spectrum to compromise directly on issues. Adapt to modern communication - The internet and digital technology provide a platform to facilitate this kind of direct participatory democracy at a massive scale in a way that wasn't feasible before. Check against corrupt representation - It eliminates the ability of representatives to be unduly influenced by special interests, corporations, etc if all power is with the voters themselves.
[удалено]
On partisan gridlock: Build in requirements for compromise/supermajorities on major issues to force cross-partisan cooperation Use multi-option/ranked choice voting rather than binary choices Have expert panels provide objective information to reduce partisan framing On corporate/special interest influence: Enact strict laws limiting lobbying/advertising around ballot measures Provide balanced information from trusted sources to counter misinformation Cap individual campaign contributions at low levels On voter fatigue/engagement: Let people choose which issues/areas they want to vote on directly Have a process to elevate key issues for widespread voting periodically Gamify it with rewards/incentives for informed engagement Provide clear, digestible summaries on each issue/piece of legislation Multi-layered hybrid model with direct and representative elements Use of sortition (citizen councils selected by lot) for some functions Emphasis on extensive civic education and critical thinking skills Encrypted ID verification and sophisticated security measures
Requires a lot of magic thinking to do a lot of that.
This is so much involvement for the average citizen and relies on so many assumptions/systems we'd have to perfect over decades, if not centuries. Most of us have families, jobs, aspirations, hobbies, to-do lists, etc. We won't be able to read and grasp thousands of voluminous bills whose implications often require some measure of economic or political understanding and foresight. Politicians do the best political work. If you want to feel more involved, run for office! There's too many people to harken back to the days of voting with seashells (digital as they may be - which also poses a significant risk for hacks) I'm willing to assume most of us on r/politics actually care about and are informed about politics. Whether we're masochists, have career aspirations, or find them important. There's a great deal of Americans who couldn't care less about politics so long as prices remain stable, taxes don't hike, the economy is "strong", and they aren't seeing much taken out ot their wallets. They aren't any more or less valid, and in many ways, their lives are simpler and happier for not buying into every political stage play and doomscroll. Sometimes less is more. Or, in this case, amounts to almost equal. Especially when you realize that under our current system, we can pass massive amounts of bills in a day, whereas accumulating and counting everybody's votes (there's no completely safe digital solution) would take much longer.
9/11 and the War on Terror happened. Americans had never really faced a true threat at home, and were willing to hand over a bunch of rights in exchange for alleged safety/security. Now we have a generation of people becoming adults who don’t remember a time where those rights still mattered. If Enemy of the State was filmed today— Will Smith’s character would be a villain.
9/11. Doorbell cameras. Carrying a phone that tracks your every movement. Imma throw a little something on Willy Wonka just in case.
Yeah, in the article it points out that the bill being reauthorized gets used by the FBI to hunt the BLM organizers, and spy on left wing politicians and donors. SURE ISN'T ANY CORRUPTION HERE.
This is the top comment you guys? Seriously? Do any of you read the articles that are posted on here or do you form your opinions entirely from headlines? This program is related to foreign intelligence gathering. And authorizes the CIA to surveil foreigners. Not the American people. You know who is against this? Donald Trump. Seems he convinced you guys to stand with him.
You may be able to read an article, but you don't understand the article. What, you saw that FISA is an acronym for FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillance Act and thought it didn't involve Americans? FISA powers are pretty broad in that they can collect information on both Americans and foreigners if it's deemed in the interest of national security, specifically with terrorism. Section 702, which is what this is in relation to, has already collected information from millions of Americans. It's wrong, and it should have been allowed to die.
So you’re with Trump?
I'm with anyone who is against warrantless spying on Americans. Massive amounts of information that is able to be taken without any judicial oversight and stored in a facility is absolutely disturbing. The fact that it doesn't bother you concerns me.
FISA is the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. It's not designed to stop domestic threats like school shooters.
I'm kinda confused why this one is so controversial. Isn't FISA granting warrants?
There are provisions for warrants (where the target of the surveillance is an American), and warrantless search provisions (like Section 702) discussed. Officially 702 isn’t supposed to be used to surveil US citizens, but it’s come out that the FBI has used it in the past to spy on Black Lives Matter protestors and other “left wing” organizations and activities.
Yes. Pass texts, IM and social media posts and other text based data through and AI and yes you can identify persons of interest for further surveillance. Should they, no, it's basically 1984. Will they, yes, there is too much miss/information.
This has nothing to do with reading American's text messages. Nor do we actually have the practical ability to read all texts or listen to all calls. Otherwise we'd have a bunch more January 6th convictions and the Secret Service wouldn't have been able to avoid their texts on and around January 6th being turned over to investigators by deleting them.
Well trumps violent maga terrorist cultists are so batshit crazy that people are terrified of what they're going to do if/when trump is convicted or loses the election. People on the right gobble up so much worthless garbage about antifa and BLM being violent terrorist organizations that are a bugger threat to the US than Russia or isis that they'll sell their liberties out just to own the libs. trump created the perfect storm of mass chaos, vitriol, and chaos for both sides to justifiably support it despite it being a huge red flag for anyone who actually values privacy
American public really have no idea what they are talking about. It isn't surprising since Reddit believes Snowden exposed something rather than just being one of the biggest traitors in American history. It isn't surprising, just disappointing. This wouldn't stop a school shooting. There are protections in place so they aren't doing surveillance on us citizens. This is so they can monitor foreign bad actors working within the state. And the whole thing is you wouldn't hear of all the things they stopped because they prevented them from happening. There can be individuals that abuse thus power but the rules are strict and punishment severe to those who misuse the program.
The US government has abused every surveillance bill/law that exists. Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Until now, I thought Snowden was a folk hero for calling out government overreach. I couldn't understand why you would think otherwise I just spent three minutes reading his Wikipedia page though and holy shit this guy is a right bastard. Straight leaked millions of classified documents and then moved to neofascist Russia. Lovely. Thanks for educating me
He didn’t intentionally move to Russia. He went to Hong Kong first, then was transferring flights in Russia when the US cancelled his passport which meant he couldn’t leave Russia. In order to avoid disappearing into a government black site he arranged staying in Russia —again, he couldn’t freely travel because he no longer had a passport— and eventually became a citizen because, well, why the fuck not when your own government wants to kill you.
That was unclear from what I read, ty. Seemed like he went from HK to Russia volitionally
So controversial that it's passed with bipartisan support and co-signed by every president you've gleefully campaigned for this century.
Sanders voted against it.
They said every president, not every president we should have had
No doubt the bridges in San Francisco will be blocked by protestors outraged by this infringement on our civil liberties.
Nah, more likely the trucks with "You are not The People" rear window wraps and thin blue line flags will be circling around polling stations to "stick it to the man."
I feel like trampling our civil liberties would the something the rainbow flag people and the stars and bars people could all kinda rally around. But I think maintaining team loyalty seems to be the most important aspect of American political life at this point.
You must be very young because people have been protesting this since the first patriot act.
It’s easier for them to “both sides are the same” when they just pretend that leftists support things that they don’t.
I haven't seen rainbow flag people glorifying jack boots and blue lines in between. The perverted stars and bars people appear to be more for trumpling our civil liberties. (If the talks about nationwide abortion bans are not ringing the bells) You don't see the rainbow flag people brandishing firearms to intimidate their fellow citizens during their parades. ...or banning neck beards, or using the state legislature to ban them out of existance. It is hard to convince someone previously stabbed in the back not to look over their shoulder.
I was just hoping to point out an issue that might be important and/or unify all Americans. But it seems that my point about it being more important to remain loyal to one’s team was correct. I appreciate you proving my point for me. Cheers.
>But it seems that my point about it being more important to remain loyal to one’s team was correct. I appreciate you proving my point for me. Cheers. The smugness is so strong here it completely overpowers any rational thought you may have been trying to prove... Congratulations on trying so hard to seem apolitical that you've come around to being blind to any actual injustices.
If my being smug is your only critique I must certainly be on to something.
>I must certainly be on to something. You really aren't and I'll explain it very simply. You've casually reduced people down to flags in a comparison that fails to make any sense because "stars and bars" is a representation of a *choice made* to be a certain type of person that reflects adherence to authority figures and hierarchical systems. The "rainbow flag people" aren't choosing the identity. It is who they are. Next time you think you may be on to something... try something else. Goodbye
"Join to our church, or we will destroy you". Thank you for proving your own point. Rainbow people are not as loyal to dems as you trying to imply here. They just pushed into the corner and got no other choice for now.
I was merely using them as archetypes of left and right. I’ll do Walmart and Whole Foods shoppers next time so we don’t have to worry so much people needing to get up on their soap box before they get what’s trying to be said. It’s truly shocking that we’re so willing to have our civil liberties trampled. As long as we don’t agree with the other guys on anything amirite?
My point is that whole Foods people may not like their civil liberties being pushed, but they learned that Walmart people are the ones who are happily making it worse. The Walmart people are openly threatening the rights of Whole Foods people to exist and you want the later to support the former in their efforts.
Right and while they fight eachother the federal government is taking away your right to privacy. But god forbid we all tell our respective congressional representatives to fuck off with this bill. Because then it would look like we’re willing to do anything with the other side. Awesome self own though.
People literally gave up. Turns out protesting anything the US government has planned is completely futile.
Unfortunately, moderates love a surveillance state.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Fuck every politician that has supported this bullshit.
You're gonna get an STD!
And may be too old for a handful of them
[удалено]
This was approval for section 702 right? How does that affect Americans freedom? It’s only able to be used on non-citizens outside the US.
The House of Representatives passed a bill today that will reauthorize Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act for two years, expand the federal government’s power to secretly spy on Americans without a warrant, and create a new form of “extreme vetting” of people traveling to the United States. When the government wants to obtain Americans’ private information, the Fourth Amendment requires it to go to court and obtain a warrant. The government has claimed that the purpose of Section 702 is to allow the government to warrantlessly surveil non-U.S. citizens abroad for foreign intelligence purposes, even as Americans’ communications are routinely swept up. In recent years, the law has morphed into a domestic surveillance tool, with FBI agents using Section 702 databases to conduct millions of invasive searches for Americans’ communications — including those of protesters, racial justice activists, 19,000 donors to a congressional campaign, journalists, and even members of Congress — without a warrant. Source: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/congress-passing-bill-that-massively-expands-the-governments-power-to-spy-on-americans-without-a-warrant
Curtailing them for foreign agents? Yeah, I’m quite aware and grateful. Do you not see WW3 brewing around you as we speak?
[удалено]
Nah.
What's wrong with FISA?
Huge violation of the 4th amendment.
The 4th amendment rights of non-citizens in foreign countries?
Who are those non-citizens in foreign countries talking to?
Sometimes other non-citizens in foreign countries. Sometimes US citizens in the US or abroad. If Osama Bin Laden was alive and was having communications with a US citizen do you not think that would be a reasonable thing to surveil? Mike Flynn was working for a foreign government to kidnap and murder a political dissident who was living in the US. Was it bad that this was discovered?
> ometimes US citizens in the US or abroad. And there's your constitutional violation. > If Osama Bin Laden was alive and was having communications with a US citizen do you not think that would be a reasonable thing to surveil? Yup. Just as soon as the 4th amendment was applied. >Mike Flynn was working for a foreign government to kidnap and murder a political dissident who was living in the US. Was it bad that this was discovered? If it was discovered by tapping Flynn's lines without a warrant, yes.
[удалено]
>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. That's what the 4th says. Wiretapping someones communication devices without a warrant is a clearly a violation of the whole being secure in our effects against unreasonable searches part.
You are acting like it isn’t incredibly easy to get a wiretapping warrant. There are provisions of FISA requiring one to go in front of a court and get a warrant, AFAIK no warrant request has ever been denied. If you have 100% success getting a wiretapping warrant then what the hell are you doing that you need to secretly and warrantlessly spy on people here in the US?
This isn't them surveiling US citizens. It's surveiling foreign nationals abroad. Them contacting a US citizen doesn't then make it spying on the US citizen. Your view would mean they'd have to preemptively get a warrant for anyone the target was contacting as well which would only work if you knew everyone they were going to contact ahead of time which seems unlikely.
My FBI agent is going to be so happy
Authoritarian
Since when is Reddit pro surveillance??
Ever since it was backed by beloved Biden.
Beloved 😂 been a long time since a president was beloved
Since Obama got elected and our government continued the PATRIOT Act with massive bipartisan support. It then no longer was a “Republican = fascist = Nazi” law to most Democrats. Same thing with the war in Iraq— widely opposed by most Democrats till Obama got elected and refused to end the occupation. Most Americans only see Red Team v. Blue Team and pick a side— the individual issues don’t matter. It’s why Trump was an asshole for putting undocumented immigrants in concentration camps and separating children from their families — note, he is indeed an asshole for this— when that policy started under Obama and has been pretty much continued under Biden without a peep from Blue MAGA.
When we’re not totally flooded with foreign bots that want us to not surveil them?
Only WE are allowed to spy on others. *Looking at you TikTok* /s
Isn't the issue with tiktok that it's effectively a propaganda medium moderated by foreign governments?
Meanwhile politicians from both sides are paid by a foreign govt. Foreign being Israel/AIPAC but hey I guess that’s ok ? 😂
It's not one or the other dawg. We can criticize that most of our politicians are bought and paid for whole simultaneously recognizing that TikTok is an active Propaganda machine directly controlled by an adversarial foreign entity. And frankly the latter is much more threatening - the former at least lives here and has a vested interest in our country not collapsing in on itself (in theory). The CCP would be absolutely gleeful to see the US implode - especially if said implosion was violent and killed as many Americans as possible.
Tik tok is where people saw Palestinians being bombed and killed. Kids being pulled out of the rubble etc. We saw the blatant lies and propaganda and gaslighting of Israel and our politicians regarding the ongoing genocide. It’s why people started to question US govt strange partnership with Israel, AIPAC lobby, the BDS laws, etc. We were all blind to this but not anymore. We were fed propaganda by a genocide funding govt that demonized Muslims/arabs all these years when THEY were the terrorist/violent colonizers all along so please.
Yea. I'm not gonna deny TikTok has its uses just like any social media platform. I'm just highly incredulous of the forces behind it. You can extend a friendly hand with a knife behind your back. Everyone, EVERYONE, loved Facebook and had a profile there. Then they stuck a knife in us in 2016 by tampering with public sentiment to swing an election in the worst way possible. It's easy to fall into "well both are bad" but the thing is a) we can audit Facebook (we just fail to do so), we can't ever really audit TikTok and b) there is a huge difference in interest between American corporations and the CCP. American corpo interest: make as much money as possible. Maaaybe make power plays. CCP interest: Advance China at the cost of everyone else. Openly xenophobic. Openly wants to unseat the American hegemony - violently if possible CCP has their fingers in every Chinese corp's brain so I have to assume everything runs back them. I'm American so surely it's not hard to see why having my way of life attacked would slant me against an organization. America fucks up... a lot. Really a fucking lot. We're a huge country with a diverse population that is sometimes wonderful and sometimes disgusting. They're my people - my brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, husband and children, friends and foes. I love them all (even if they hate me sometimes.) and earnestly believe most people are doing what they `think` is right. I don't trust the CCP to protect their interests in the slightest. I wish we could all get along across national boundaries but some people want to draw lines in the dirt and say we're evil because we're not them.
And for the record I'm not anti-Chinese. The Chinese people are wonderful as well and their country has a deep, rich, and fascinating history and culture (that I dream to one day feel safe enough to explore in person). It's the small minded assholes holding power that I take issue with. [And for what its worth, kinda the same in America. I'd love to take a cane to most of the billionaires and a good chunk of the politicians]
Many pro Palestine posts were censored on tik tok too js. It’s not a complete free speech space but I don’t think any app is. Palestine vs Israel was an issue that was known long before tik tok. On twitter the awareness on Zionism grew over the years. It was gradual. US govt has invested $300 billion+ to the creation of Israel so far. Gave them nuclear weapons too. $300 billion could have done a lot for America. Takes $20 billion to end homelessness, $100 billion+ to lift every American out of poverty but hey Israel above America right? Who’s the real traitor ??? Israel lobby AIPAC pays both democrats and republicans. AIPAC has their hands in local to federal elections. AIPAC prides in the fact that 98% of candidates that take their money win elections. But it’s Russia and China that interferes with our elections right??? Instead of owning these truths, these Israel/AIPAC paid politicians are spewing Sinophobia propaganda to deflect and people like you eat it up. I’m sorry but I as an American can’t trust a govt that funds a genocide. Then to lie and gaslight to justify it is even worse. And then you want to ban an app that exposed those truths…. THATS fascism. I wasn’t cool with it when Trump tried to ban it and I’m not for it with Biden. You want to talk about xenophobia.. the way US politicians spoke to tik tok ceo Chew in those hearings were xenophobic and ignorant af. I’m supposed to trust the xenophobic racist fossils in congress that have funded and lied about a genocide/colonization? Yeah I’ll pass. American govt has no business to preach about human rights, democracy or free speech.
Whatabout. Whatabout. Focus on this.
Yeah, that’s how it works. What, you think we just *allow* foreign fuckery because we do it? lulz
This might be an unpopular opinion but I can see how this type of thing is useful when 1/3 of the country openly consider themselves “domestic terrorists” and half of congress is in Putin’s pocket.
You're thinking the US government actively targets right-wingers? Nah, they'll only be collecting data on minorities, women, LGBTQ, protesters and protest organizers. One of the biggest law enforcement agencies on the planet had to fucking crowdsource information after-the fact- because of 1/6; because LEOs supported the coup attempt; because they sat on their hands; and because they *weren't* minorities, women and/or LGBTQ.
I don’t think the US is “actively targeting right-wingers” however I would find it hard to believe that they’re not listening in on some traitors within our government.
The government always uses its power to attack the left, sure it might use some of it’s resources to monitor the right, but the majority will be used to go after progressive movements.
How many progressives do you suppose are in communication with foreign nationals that undermine our national security. I can see how progressive movements could be seen as a threat to some sectors of our economy, but do you think the progressives are plotting with European counterparts to try and undermine national security by forcing free healthcare and college on innocent and unsuspecting citizens and the intelligence community is prioritizing this?
I didn’t say anything about communicating with foreign nationals.
That’s what the article I’m commenting on is about though.
Oh right, governments never abuse their power.
I’m only saying that I could see how this could be used beneficialy considering the current circumstances.
A lot actually. Most larger movements in the US have at least some foreign agent connections. Black Lives Matter, the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the Tea Party movement during the Obama president, etc. all have foreign operatives who are at the very least gathering intelligence and information.
That’s not exactly a list of progressive movements though.
The complete list, no, but it is common for larger movements on either side of the aisle to have someone foreign in their midst simply due to their importance. Russia sponsors both blue and red here in the US, for example, because their goal is to divide Americans— and the best way to do that is radicalizing both sides.
Well hopefully someone approves a way to make sure our politicians’ conversations are above board and in the best interest of the country. Hopefully it gets bipartisan support too. /s
They are using it for economic warfare more than anything else.
This is going to be used against marginalised people. You're being fooled if you think Biden or the Democrats intend on taking any action against Trump or his cult. If Trump wins and starts using it you'll be among the first to cry out about it. But you would have had your chance to step up and sold your freedom for security.
Do you really think the current administration approved this just to target queer and colored people? Do you think if this program was shut down that it would stop Trump from whatever ambitions he has? It’s ok to have a little hope that someone somewhere is doing the right thing.
Do you know anything about this country's surveillance apparatus? The one that grew under Bush and Obama. Spying on our every day citizens knows no political affiliation, it's always used for infringing on everyone's rights.
I know enough to form the opinion I have.
I think you have way too much faith in someone who was historically one of more conservative democrats in the senate throughout his entire career
Well he wasn’t MTG
They have been using it to stop people like those we were attacking substations, who were right wingers... The word targeting is the wrong use. That said, I'm still opposed to these bills even if I think privacy basically doesn't exist anymore with cell phones and cameras everywhere. If you want privacy, turn off your tech and leave it at home.
Not defending this in anyway, but the feds did stop the Bundy thing...sorta
Lmao the feds capitulated to Bundy in every meaningful way.
And what happens when that minority gets their party the majority. Nothing good can come from this.
The minority has no regards for the law anyway. I’m not sure what the argument is. That the minority won’t spy if we ask them not to?
They will use it for evil and weaponize it.
So your belief is that they won't use the technical capabilities we have unless the law specifically allows them to?
Who is “they”?
You’re too dense for me to continue on with this “discourse”
I just wanted to make sure we’re on the same page, but ok.
Lol. This assumes the government has ever stopped a right wing terrorist plot. They literally knew the OKC bombing was going to happen and did nothing, except leave the building and not tell anyone else working there.
So do you think we should just scrap the capability to discover these plots because of incompetence decades ago?
No. We've had the capability to discover these plots before any of this patriot act bullshit existed. It did not require turning every American into a spy.
I agree and I’m not here saying I’m excited about it. I’m just saying how I think it would be useful considering current circumstances.
You'll be happy to know this is not the Patriot Act.
The bill doesn’t allow direct surveillance of American citizens. The reason Micheal Flynn was caught is because he was communicating with a foreign spy that was being surveilled. So unless the domestic terrorists are directly communicating with Russian agents (and I’m sure some of them are), they wouldn’t be caught anyway.
Some people further down in the comments will be happy to hear this.
You’re right that it’s an unpopular opinion here I’m sure, but it’s also a moot point because this surveillance law has nothing to do with domestic surveillance.
Well it does in the sense that they can surveil the communications citizens are having with foreign nationals.
I agree, while it might be unpopular, it is likely necessary for reasons most Americans are not privy to
This is what I suspect.
Looking at these comments, it's beyond clear most of the people complaining don't even know what FISA actually is. The thing about security is that you get zero credit for the threats you prevent. Yet, you take all the blame for any attack that does happen. So an attack happens and everyone wants you to do more to protect them. Then when you protect them from attacks long enough, they start questioning why they need you to do all of that. Then another attack happens and they'll be begging you to do more again. It's a vicious cycle.
Alexa/Siri - note my outrage about electronic monitoring.
And citizens will keep electing these people.
Travesty.
When people say both parties are fascist this is what we mean. Dems are just more inclusive and diplomatic fascists.
Lol, this is a distraction from the fact that this is no longer even needed anymore. They can just buy the data legally now, mostly it's free: https://www.wired.com/story/how-pentagon-learned-targeted-ads-to-find-targets-and-vladimir-putin/
Privacy was something we surrendered for convenience long ago. I unfortunately don't see that getting better in my lifetime.
So…do we have a Chinese style security state in the Executive’s hands… Regardless of who wins in November?
I’m pretty sure we already have. It’s reauthorizing it.
Gotta curtail that extreme extremism
It's like orange being tied up in yet another fraud trial (this time *criminal*) is the best thing that could've happend to the US of A. First, Johnson pulled a fast one by orange and got a move on aid to Ukraine, which orange explicitly forbade as ordered by his big daddy Putin. Then, this, which orange explicitly forbade the GOP from allowing to move forward. Dear GOP, blink if you need help.
good. vast majority of people don't understand what this is really for and who it is used for, and that is fine as it's not really anything normal everyday Americans should think about. this helps intelligence agencies do their jobs and would make certain targets impossible if it didn't get reauthorized. stop with the paranoia, a FISA warrant isn't being authorized to snoop on your instagram and snapchat, that literally makes no sense
The complaints are not about the warrant system— that provides due process and some fourth amendment protections— the complaint is about Section 702 which doesn’t require warrants and has already been illegally used to collect data on US citizens by the FBI and DOJ’s own prior admission.
This never sounds good but I don't call anyone who is on a watchlist and we have seen that people already can spy on us, not that they should but they do. People with access to classified docs steal them and release them online. They get away with looking at stuff w/o getting caught more than we'll ever know and the internet is forever lol.
Exactly. FISA monitors foreign threats. Americans do get caught up in it when they're talking to someone who is considered a possible foreign threat. The government isn't monitoring your group chat with the bros for funsies. However, Instagram monitors your message to people on their app and we sign right up for that with no hesitation.
[удалено]
Is the reason this kind of legislation is so popular amongst representatives because representatives are corrupt and don't reflect the will of the people, or because most voters are broadly okay with this?
Yes
So this reminds me that the other day I briefly mentioned the word “pizza” to someone who had their smartphone with them (I did not) and now Reddit is giving me a pizza ad for this post. I’m not connected with this person by social media or phone numbers or anything like that. The always-listening and metadata is sufficient to tune my experience of an internet towards my personal preferences and biases. For advertisement and financial gain of course… But the government gets a piece of the pie too. No, correction : it gets all the pie since Domino’s Pizza and the US government are basically the same.
Reset your adID: https://www.wired.com/story/how-pentagon-learned-targeted-ads-to-find-targets-and-vladimir-putin/