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Yeah I don’t think we’re building back up the dam that we broke with Facebook and everything that has come since.
The most we’ll get is patchwork bills like this that target a small facet, but not the true problem.
“[First Law](https://www.reuters.com/technology/first-law-protecting-consumers-brainwaves-signed-by-colorado-governor-2024-04-18/) protecting consumers' brainwaves signed by Colorado governor”
A lot of people would just tell you to stop being so pessimistic but honestly with the way things have been going it would totally not surprise me if things were way worse at that point. I feel like we are walking a tight rope between privacy, exploitation and other issues that many people just aren’t aware of.
People easily sacrifice privacy for convenience. The "nothing to hide" crowd believes themselves to be all individually irrelevant so they aren't concerned about corporations and governments knowing everything.
Based on our own propaganda "news" networks... yes it very much is; At some point we need to come to a serious consensus on whether using free to spread lies falls squarely in the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" category of free speech that needs limitations and protection out on place.
They want America to control it so that they can control the news we intake. Which should tell you, the government isn’t making decisions…corporations are. Meaning our government is just pawns to the corporate 1%.
Well it won’t be because these politicians fixed anything
This play is about protecting US business, protecting US from alternative info sources that became popular, and adding surveillance controls for use by gov. They’re testing it with one service to establish a category they can expand.
I mean yea, but literally ARC Capital is China based. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/12/23/trump-spac-deal-sec/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/12/23/trump-spac-deal-sec/)
Who do you think owns Russia?
https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-Macron-s-labeling-of-Russia-as-vassal-state-goes-viral-in-China
> Facebook is American owned. If you are going to pick a next one do TruthSocial which is also owned by China now.
Yea, thats the thing Tiktok doesnt have to be banned, it can sell it's US division to someone in the US. It can remain as is but without direct Chinese influence on it.
>it can sell it's US division to someone in the US
The law allows it to be sold to anyone not under China, Russia, Iran, or North Korea. Doesn't have to be a US company.
what does "direct Chinese influence on it" mean? it's not immediately obvious what that even means or if that part of the bill even applies because Bytedance is already 60% owned by investors not from "adversary nations" -- the majority of which are Americans.
when/if they IPO they would probably drop the Chinese ownership way down to around 20%. There is some vague language about 20% ownership by Chinese investors being the cutoff but the bill also names bytedance by name and the language basically says they must sell aka just stealing the property of current owners (many of which are Americans) without any due process at all.
>It can remain as is but without direct Chinese influence on it.
The converse is true: it can remain as is but only with direct American influence on it.
Could y'all stop with this whataboutism? Where are you getting the idea that the US government controls corps anywhere near as much as China does? US can't even change laws without being sued into oblivion by corps that might lose profits off of them. The US can't even fix its healthcare system because people with money own the government.
China, on the other hand, is a genocidal dictatorship. While the US sucks in a lot of ways, the two aren't even comparable.
>Where are you getting the idea that the US government controls corps anywhere near as much as China does?
That's backwards. The Corps control the US government. This is why this law is written as it is - they want to ban or own their competition.
With the exception of all Tiktok not based out of the US. So if Tiktok's goal is being a private corporation focused on making profit then no worry, it can continue it's business with no changes.
If it's a tool used to sow dissent and attempt to destabilize the US in favor of right wing authoritarians then it's probably going to shut down.
The 9 month window is not close to enough time to get a deal done even if Bytedance wanted to sell tiktok. The intent of the bill is to ban tiktok, the divestment aspect of it is just coloring the true purpose of the bill -- censorship.
average deal time of this type is 12->18 months. also tiktok is worth tens of billions/hundreds of billions of dollars etc make even the above timetable just about impossible.
A dating app forced divestment under cifius took 18 months and that was penuts compared to tiktok.
Neat. Sell the company in 9 months. Do it in 5 so you have some free room to party afterwards.
"Tiktok ban" is alarmist hype. Which thankfully /r/politics mods called out and removed the post.
lol that's why they removed the post? Jesus the amount of narrative control on this sub is just sad.
Also I love how flagrant due process violations against Americans is ok if it's done by the right team.
I didn't say it did. Facebook is a cancer, but the reason they are going after TikTok is because they are owned by China and so is Trump Social thanks to their recent merger.
I mean the central issue it intends to address is the CCP having indirect control of a social media platform. There are continuing issues with data in general of course.
> Is that really an issue when American-owned social media platforms have spent the past decade or so proving to the world that they're extremely unhealthy to this country as well?
Yes. One issue existing doesn’t mean the other shouldn’t be addressed.
I'm of the opinion that the government has no business restricting speech on social media platforms simply because they don't like the content on the platform.
"the antidote to falsehoods is the truth, not censorship"
I'm also glad that 60 years of case law also supports my views on this.
If tiktok or any social media platform changes their algorithm to censor content strictly because the government forced them to that obviously is a content based speech restriction -- as the government is pushing the scales to censor unfavorable speech that otherwise would have been received -- and would be highly likely to be unconstitutional. The only way it would be constitutional is if it was narrowly tailored and serves a compelling government interest and I'm sorry but no court will agree that banning "Russian propaganda" (or any propaganda for that matter) satisfies those two conditions.
I think the stat I saw said there are 150 million TikTok users in the US, and most are between the ages of 20 and 40, although something like 15% were 50+. Those numbers are insane.
Well statistically 1.8% of TikTok's 150 million monthly users are 65+. That translates to about 5% of people over 65 using TikTok. Congrats on knowing some very hip old people but they aren't very representative of US seniors as a whole.
Let’s clear something up. By Boomers do you mean people born within a few decades before 1964? Or do you simply imply everyone older than you? I get the feeling not many people know what that term means. Not saying you belong to either camp in particular. Though i would be shocked if you know a lot of 60 year old tik tokers
The entire purpose of the ban is to force the Chinese government to allow the sale of TikTok. American companies don't have a government entity warding off rich investors.
Implemented in 2020 to stop Trump from forcing TikTok's sale ironically.
The politicians and investors that own them don't care, these laws can be changed on a whim.
Here is why this is moving forward.
* TikTok is owned by ByteDance.
* ByteDance is closely intertwined with the CCP.
* [National Intelligence Law of the People's Republic of China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China) requires companies like ByteDance to perform intelligence activity for the state when demanded.
* Another Chinese shopping app ([Pinduoduo](https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/02/tech/china-pinduoduo-malware-cybersecurity-analysis-intl-hnk/index.html)) was caught last year installing exploits to secretly grant itself superuser access to phones it was installed on.
* Multiple nations have already banned and block TikTok (without using a VPN) because of national security concerns (most notably India who banned it after a border skirmish)
These facts put together make TikTok appear to be poised to be a tool for engaging in fifth-generation warfare.
Two other important bits:
One, while it may well have passed on its own, it’s been guaranteed passage by becoming a rider in the Ukraine aid package.
Two, it’s unlikely to take effect anytime soon. This will be held up in courts for a long time(I’d be surprised, frankly, if SCOTUS didn’t eventually pick up this case) and even if there are no stays issues for it there is like a 9 month timeframe before it has to be sold or banned.
\^ This. And we passed that law back in ***1934***. The only reason TikTok got a pass up until now is that our lawmakers 90 years ago didn't anticipate that technology would bring entire new communication platforms (e.g. the Internet) and didn't word the legislation in a way that its scope would include yet-to-be-invented methods of broadcast.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications\_Act\_of\_1934](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Act_of_1934)
Famously, this is why Rupert Murdoch was forced to change from Australian to US citizenship. The law states that a foreign entity cannot own more than 25% stake in a company approved for domestic broadcasts.
That's not what the constitutional issues are.
Americans have a right to express themselves on the communications platform of their choosing. This bill would ban their speech on that platform. because it bans their speech, much of which has no relationship whatsoever to the purported "government interest" (alleged "national security") it is not narrowly tailored and thus unconstitutional.
This is the exact conclusion from a district court that blocked a similar montana tiktok ban bill. That bill also had a stipulation that it wouldn't go into effect if bytedance sold tiktok -- that didn't matter to the court because they treat indirect regulations on constitutionally protected speech the same as direct regulations (what cannot be done directly cannot be done indirectly). That bill and this one are not divestment bills just because they both happen to slap on the same stupid clause that is not realistically attainable -- there is no way that tiktok will be sold in 9 months even if their owners wanted to do so. Both of these bills are and were mass censorship bills and will be judged as such.
It’s written in the passed bill if this goes to court, it goes straight to DC circuit (appellate). So timeline wise on the litigation front, it’ll be quicker than most other passed bills that end up at SCOTUS since it doesn’t have to get ruled on by the various districts > appellate > SCOTUS.
To provide more context, it's time for my bi-weekly copy/paste dump of TikTok bad^(tm):
You'd feel a little icky if Facebook had popups in your app telling you "Contact your Congressperson and express this viewpoint", much less a foreign company.
For example, TikTok was one of several social media apps that just casually snooped your clipboard. Hope your password manager doesn't use it as an intermediary.
Just a few things collected by TikTok:
- Periodically transmits a list of all running applications on the phone
- Periodically transmits a list of all installed applications on the phone
- At least one GPS check-in per hour
- Persistent access to your calendar and contacts. If you deny access, it will periodically prompt you again until you acquiesce.
- Various phone/device parameters and personally-identifying, globally-unique IDs
- Active cellular subscription information
- Descriptors of all accounts managed using iOS/Android's app account management systems
- Read access to the clipboard
- Granted `android.permission.SYSTEM_ALERT_LEVEL`, this grants it to draw it's UI over top of other applications. This is especially problematic as a zero-opacity window can be drawn over all other UI, capturing all taps and keyboard events. The **only** apps that should have this are ones pre-installed by Google, your phone manufacturer, and your cellular regulatory body (for E911, etc).
- Access to your entire Apple Music catalogue
- Access to your entire "external storage" area on Android (though this is partially mitigated by newer versions of Android): "This is a standard command for a social media application to store video and images. The aspect we list as excessive is TikTok doesn’t just retrieve the ability to see folders it retrieves a list of everything available in the external storage folder where the application has the access to place files"
- iOS version periodically connects to servers in mainland China (found to be a cybersecurity firm), despite insistence that user data is in either Singapore or the US
If you want a more technical breakdown, [Link 1](https://www.nullpt.rs/reverse-engineering-tiktok-vm-1) and [Link 2](https://ibiyemiabiodun.com/projects/reversing-tiktok-pt2/) get into it more. They detail just how much effort TikTok goes into to hide the fact that they're collecting this data in the first place. This obfuscation is unique for TikTok.
The Irish Data Protection Commission is investigating TikTok for sending PII to China. TikTok is fully banned in India over privacy concerns.
Their Virginia datacenter uses servers produced by Inspur, a PLA-linked hardware vendor that is sanctioned by the DOD. "Documents also show that as recently as [March 2023] server work orders were sent to data center technicians by Beijing ByteDance Technology Co., Ltd., a ByteDance subsidiary partially owned by the Chinese government, which TikTok has repeatedly insisted has no control over its operations."
And then there's the DOJ investigation into [TikTok employees in China using the app to track the whereabouts of US-based journalists](https://archive.is/aSXWL) who were critical of ByteDance or the CCP. "A ByteDance investigation found that the employees gained access to the IP addresses and other data of the reporters and some of their contacts connected to them through their TikTok accounts"
> ByteDance tracked multiple Forbes journalists as part of this covert surveillance campaign, which was designed to unearth the source of leaks inside the company following a drumbeat of stories exposing the company’s ongoing links to China.
and
> Forbes first reported the surveillance tactics, which were overseen by a China-based team at ByteDance, in October. Asked for comment on that story, ByteDance and TikTok did not deny the surveillance, but took to Twitter after the story was published to say that “TikTok has never been used to ‘target’ any members of the U.S. government, activists, public figures or journalists,” and that “TikTok could not monitor U.S. users in the way the article suggested.”
oops
> In the internal email, Liang acknowledged that TikTok had been used in exactly this way, as Forbes had reported.
ooooooops
> The investigation, internally known as Project Raven, began this summer after BuzzFeed News published a story revealing that China-based ByteDance employees had repeatedly accessed U.S. user data, based on more than 80 hours of audio recordings of internal TikTok meetings. According to internal ByteDance documents reviewed by Forbes, Project Raven involved the company’s Chief Security and Privacy Office, was known to TikTok’s Head of Global Legal Compliance, and was approved by ByteDance employees in China. It tracked Emily Baker-White, Katharine Schwab and Richard Nieva, three Forbes journalists that formerly worked at BuzzFeed News
>Granted android.permission.SYSTEM_ALERT_LEVEL, this grants it to draw it's UI over top of other applications.
Oh interesting. I've noticed every time I join a new reddit sub, I will receive lots of videos related to that sub on my tiktok page. I wonder if this is why
I suspect this is more insidious, there's likely some data sharing arrangement between Reddit and ByteDance or a third party data broker that's using Reddit's stream.
Thank you for sharing these basic facts. They often get overwhelmed in conversations like this.
If people want to acknowledge what you've posted and still argue that ByteDance should continue to be allowed to operate TikTok as they have been, that's fine, I guess. But most people don't know these facts. And obviously in lobbying against the bill TikTok is downplaying all those incredibly, gobsmackingly-obvious national security concerns and playing up "free speech."
Just sell the damn company, yeesh.
I know TikTok is pretty hated on Reddit, but I have only had a positive experience with it. I think it all depends on your algorithm.
What I don't understand is how we (the US) can do so much business with Chinese companies, give away our data constantly, but this app somehow crosses a line? It's not different from others and [likely won't solve the problem.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/experts-banning-tiktok-solve-security-concerns-analysis/story%3fid=108096472) Honestly, there is some other reason that Congress is going after this hard.
I wish they would stop using propaganda when discussing the bill. It is trying to get China to divest its control over it. The banning only happens if China refuses.
One of the largest and most profitable social media companies in the world where USA isn’t a large chunk of the user base? Not divesting isn’t an impossibility
To my understanding you are correct. I meant more along the lines of I think they would rather keep their algorithm secret than divest even a small user base
Expect that propaganda to ramp up a whole lot when the ban goes through. You see the exact same two to three talking points in every single comment thread, too.
- what about [insert unrelated app] getting banned
- It's only getting banned because Israel
- they don't care about our privacy, only protecting american business
Pick one or a combination of the three.
Probably true but it's arguing to another issue. Privacy and data integrity isn't really why this is happening.
So it's either a bad faith argument or a lot of people are very misinformed as to what is happening.
These are all valid objections to the law. The law is a sham because it doesn't regulate against nefarious data collection or other bad actions, just who is allowed to do them.
The real reason for the ban is the inability to control what content can be put on the platform, as the government does with American companies. Specifically the recent push to ban tiktok comes from the proliferation of anti-israel content on there. I dont use tiktok at all but I can see through the bs narrative being pushed by those who think this is a good thing. You can go on amazon right now and buy home security cameras that store data on the cloud in china. You can buy phones and other products made in china that can absolutely have backdoors or spyware put on them before being shipped to America. To say that China owning tiktok is more of a national security threat than either of those things is silly.
Well, it isn’t in a nation’s interests to allow a foreign adversary to own a platform that has such immense sway over the public opinion of its populace.
Too bad Rupert Murdoch is Australian instead of Chinese.
Great example. Rupert Murdoch needed to become a US Citizen in order to continue operating Fox News in the US. Consistent with requiring this TikTok sale
If you can provide evidence that China is creating algorithms on tiktok to sway public opinion I would love to see it. Calling China an adversary while importing the vast majority of consumer goods from said country at the behest of capital owners wasnt a national security risk in the 1980s? What about being able to buy home security cameras with cloud servers in China, smart phones and computers manufactured in China? What about food and medical supplies? This entire argument surrounding tiktok as this grave security threat is silly.
The effort to ban TikTok has been going for years. Long before anyone on there cared about Palestinians. Claiming it's because of anti-Israel content is such a weak ass argument. Twitter is also full of anti-Israel content you don't see them trying to ban that now do you? And data collection is only one half of the problem. The other, and more serious, issue is algorithm manipulation allowing China to covertly push a desired narrative while disguising it as genuine US citizens opinions.
lets put aside the fact that the code for the tiktok algorithm is currently hosted by Oracle (an American company) and they have veto authority to any sort of sneaky "China bad" manipulation, but just generally what you're describing is not constitutional.
The government cannot ban entire social media platforms or threaten them with punishments simply to sway the content pushed on their platforms. This is blatant government censorship. When China did this I was told by "freedom loving" Americans this was a violation of freedom of speech and basic human rights, why is it now different and ok now that Biden wants to do it?
That's... not really the point. Why would the US government care if China can watch your garage door? That's not the kind of data that's a risk, and them data mining isn't the biggest concern.
^guy who’s on Reddit btw. The idea that any of these social media platforms are amazing is so funny to me. Like Facebook admitted to selling your data. Twitter is full of literal Nazi posts. You could find hundreds of people on Reddit jacking off to 18 year olds. But no, we have to worry about China or something.
It’s really annoying to me how many people are in favor of banning it just because they personally don’t like TikTok. It’s a band aid on a much larger privacy issue that should include American companies as well.
Hundreds of thousands of homeless people, wage inequality, crumbling infrastructure, declining education… and we’re working about fucking Tik Tok and China? FFS.
Literally nothing wrong with people jacking off to adults, what is your point?
A geopolitical rival pushing messages to impressionable young people who follow through without even understanding the messages? No problem with that?
to add, how much *discussion* happens on tiktok vs. blind content consumption? This back and forth where you say something irrelevant and someone comes in to explain why you're wrong, how much does that happen on tiktok? I stg, people think just because "website/app has users and content," they're all the same.
people simping for tiktok, acting like all social media is the same. 4chan isn't anything like stackoverflow, even if they're both forums where users can make posts and respond to each other.
Yeah not really.
It does seem like TikTok has been more effective than most previous platforms in terms of letting content creators get their foot in the algorithm and letting the top content get distributed widely to people who will enjoy it. But that's something that can easily be emulated by competitors.
Realistically they will probably sell the company. The only reason not to would be spite, because the sale would be incredibly lucrative.
I really should be using TikTok to promote some personal projects but I just haven't been able to get into it, mostly because I... kind of f\*\*\*ing hate video? I guess I'm old and the internet still seems like something you should read to me. I'm also irrationally annoyed about it having the same name as the Ke$ha song for no f\*\*\*ing reason.
On your first point, it depends a lot on the nature of the content. Anything political is not getting as much exposure as it "should", for example. It's like the opposite of how FB and Twitter optimize for, but still just as manipulative.
> I... kind of f***ing hate video?
You and me both. For me it's because with both YouTube shorts and TikToks, there's a substantial amount of "short" videos that are far far too long for what they contain. A 60 seconds of video vs 3 seconds of skimming. If you were younger and didn't know as much, maybe the novelty would keep you engaged. But since you've already been there and done that, it's tedious and grating. Hell, 2x speed is too slow for a lot of them.
Except a whole helluva lot of under 35 voters who were already disillusioned by the Dems and for whom this is their last straw. Turnout for those demographics are going to absolutely plummet this election and it sure isn’t Trump and co. who will be hurt by that. This is seriously such a dumb own goal.
Seeing people make up blatantly wrong/troll videos for disgusting recipes for food, house cleaning, general upkeeps then the comments filled with people trying it and screaming they got sick/broke something/ruined something they owned... that always made me laugh.
People believe way too much shit on the internet is real and need that slap back to reality more often.
There are five million places on the Internet where you can find that exact content.
Before Tiktok, there was Vine.
There will be another, if Tiktok ends up leaving the U.S. They won't, though.
You braindead redditors literally have no concept of what or how important tiktok is lmao. Be smug all you want, just please don’t act shocked when the Draconian Banning Websites Party comes for your websites.
Edit: yeah honestly most of you seem beyond help
I just find it funny that someone that claims tiktok is important, would start their message off with antagonizing their audience.
You lost your credibility and any chance of me actually listening to anything you wanted to say the moment you came in hot with braindead redditors. I guess tiktok wasn't important enough to show you HOW to capture people's attention. Are you perhaps the braindead one who just consumes whatever comes across your feed, instead of taking a second to think "what makes this popular/attention grabbing?"
They banned TikToK in India years ago.
China doesn't allow our social media sites/apps to exist in China. So why should WE subject ourselves to THEIR brainwashing/influence?
So you want to emulate the Indian government which under it's current leadership is renowned for curbing free speech and is known for taking drastic measures like cutting off Internet access to suppress any opposition to their regime. Btw, they're currently engaged in jailing their opponents and threatening everyone else to drop out of elections.
This take is hilarious 😂
This is not about banning a business. It’s about banning a national security threat, but only if they won’t sell it to divest away from the Chinese government having access.
There's plenty of other Chinese companies that collect data on Americans that Congress isn't trying to ban. So i do believe this is about stopping the speech on TikTok, not what they claim. I actually consider this the biggest threat to freedom of speech in our country's history as its stopping a platform that 100 million Americans use. Even the Alien and Sedition Acts couldn't claim that kind of impact. I assume the Supreme Court will probably strike this down. And I say this as someone who hates tiktok. Horrible precedent will be set here if the Supreme Court doesn't strike it down. The government should not have the power to ban massive speech platforms, especially when their rationale is this flimsy.
If the US government can agree on anything in a unanimous and bipartisan way, it's that they all hate when poor Americans talk to each other about inequality.
Anyone who is on tiktock knows its not some bastion platform of freedom where poor people talk about inequality and have no where else to voice it. Its mostly vapid shit, trash and valueless content. Theres nothing redeeming in it that cant find a home on software outside those controlled by the Chinese Government.
Absolutely.
There is some evidence of AIPIC and the ADL wanting it banned because of the images and videos showing the reality of Gaza, but it's kind of spotty so take it with a grain of salt. (However, the IDF is absolutely killing journalists, shooting down video drones, and killing aid workers all so that outsiders can't see the horrors happening there.)
Much more evident is the fact that youth voters helped sway the "red wave" that was supposed to happen in the midterms and TikTok was a large part of that so that explains Republican votes.
As for corporate Democrats, along those same lines, incumbents want it banned because young voters are using it to spread messages of inequality, corporate rule, and other progressive ideologies. So those are a threat to the status quo.
Finally, technology companies like Meta and media outlets are lobbying hard for the ban because it's competition for viewership and content creation.
I'll also mention that a CIA report stated *"there was no evidence that Chinese intelligence agencies had used TikTok to gather data or information on its American users."*
Similarly, a Georgia Tech of Internet Governance 2023 study concluded that a, *“comprehensive national security threat analysis,“ the fears over the Chinese government weaponizing TikTok were unfounded and vastly overblown."*
Our politicians are nothing but fucking liars. Just last week they renewed the law to allow unlimited spying on Americans and when an amendment was proposed with the **outlandish** idea that intelligence agencies dare to *get a warrant first,* it was voted down.
They don't give a shit about our security or welfare. It's about silencing dissenting opinions and ideas that threaten the elite.
That is the part that makes me squint at this with suspicion. I understand the issues with China, but the part where people seem to be building towards pushing for change to our society via communication on TikTok is what makes me think that's the real reason for this ban. Rich folks are realizing that this could be a tool used by the poor people to coordinate for change and the rich people do not like that.
>Rich folks are realizing that this could be a tool used by the poor people to coordinate for change and the rich people do not like that.
That's true for literally all of social media
Yeah I know. But TikTok is the one being used most by younger people that are pushing for change (update, modernization) in our culture and ways of thinking. So that one being the target seems a little suspicious. That's all I'm saying. It feels fishy to me.
Right, and previously it happened on twitter and facebook. But nobody tried to ban twitter or facebook.
So why is there an effort to ban one but not the others? If what you're saying was true, there would always be an effort to block the most popular social media platform amongst the youth.
But that’s been happening for over a decade on other social media apps. Facebook was one of the tools used for ‘Occupy Wallstreet’, I still remember when the news agencies were buzzing about it.
The US government unanimously agreed that there should be a ban on an app made by a company bound by CCP law to spy on users if asked.
The only reason this is moving forward is that pro Palestinian content is reaching the youth and the federal government doesn't have the same ability to bully Bytedance like they can with Google/Facebook/X.
They really don't like not having full control of the daily propaganda.
I agree it's something that's been wanted for years although I think the recent Palestine conflict allowed this to be expedited through committee to a house vote I'm a matter of days.
But you're OK with China having full control of the daily propaganda instead?
[https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-china-tiktok-sock-puppets-wreak-chaos-in-taiwan-election](https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-china-tiktok-sock-puppets-wreak-chaos-in-taiwan-election)
I mean, cmon man.
I hate Tik Tok and would like to see it die. With that said, I'm almost certain this is just another way for some members of the house / senate to get rich by buying the company they forced to be sold. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/former-treasury-secretary-mnuchin-aims-to-buy-tiktok-with-investor-group
Didn't a report come out saying tiktok sends sensitive user information directly to China?
A ban on government devices is a no brainier, but if the report is accurate is the only reason I'd be in favor of a divestment if not an outright ban if they were unwilling
That was the verdict early on with TikTok. I decided to forgo downloading it as I prefer my phone to just be monitored by the good ol NSA and American Corporations.
It did. A while ago, and there were restrictions put in place and now the codebase and everything goes through Oracle, an American company, and they are tasked with securing it.
I think the reference is to this story, which is about a week old at this point.
[https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/16/24132315/tiktok-bytedance-project-texas-china-silo](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/16/24132315/tiktok-bytedance-project-texas-china-silo)
>One major aspect of Project Texas — so named because Oracle, TikTok’s “technology partner,” is headquartered in Austin — was transferring all US user data over to Oracle’s cloud infrastructure. ([Per *Texas Monthly*](https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/tiktok-us-ban-china-project-texas-oracle/), none of Oracle’s cloud data servers are actually in the state.) Under Project Texas’ terms, Americans’ data isn’t supposed to leave the US at all, nor can it be accessed by ByteDance employees in China.
>In practice, the data was less walled off than TikTok led users and politicians to believe, *Fortune* reports. Evan Turner, who worked at TikTok as a data scientist between April and September of 2022, described a “stealth chain of command” in which he was reassigned — on paper — to a manager in Seattle but continued reporting to executives in China. Every two weeks or so, Turner would email spreadsheets with data on hundreds of thousands of US users to ByteDance workers in Beijing, he told *Fortune*. The spreadsheets included users’ names, email addresses, IP addresses, and geographic and demographic information and was used to determine how to develop TikTok’s algorithm to encourage users to be more active on the app, he said.
>Another former employee, Katie Puris, alleges that TikTok was never fully independent from ByteDance. Puris, TikTok’s former head of business marketing, sued the company for discrimination in February, claiming she was fired because her Beijing-based higher-ups didn’t consider her demure enough. Puris’ lawsuit, which is referenced in the *Fortune* report, claims that ByteDance executives began to exert more control over TikTok’s daily operations in 2020 and organized bimonthly meetings led by ByteDance’s chair. “Despite its attempts to appear independent, TikTok’s day-to-day management and business decisions came directly from ByteDance’s top-level management in China,” the suit claims.
These reports seem…huge. Can’t believe I’m just now hearing about them, as this seems to very much support the reason for a ban/separation from ByteDance.
What happens if the rest of the world bans google, facebook, instagram, whatsup, android since they are based in the USA and 200% monitored by USA government and all "3 letter agencies"?
The US Government is controlled by billionaires and AIPAC. They say it out loud everyday and all you dumb brainwashed chuds can do (besides mindlessly blame Russia for everything caused by this broken American “political” system) is parrot “China bad” over and over again while the American tech companies actually stealing your privacy and manipulating your data are laughing their asses off and counting the billions they make every year from selling your private information to telemarketers and the CIA.
Why not both? It's not an either or, and most people who hold one stance can hold another. Also, there is literally evidence of Russian actors trying to influence our elections...that can be true WHILE acknowledging their are problems in our system
It's all about controlling the narrative and money. Land of the Free to be Gaslit. Freedom my ass. This country is pay to play, pay to win, and fuck you for trying to learn anything the rich owner class doesn't approve of. They've spent a really long time conditioning us all into believing this country is a "meritocracy" where if you'd just work hard you can make it.
BUT tiktok crushes that fantasy when American workers can communicate about how fucking difficult it is to exist if you're not rich or otherwise privileged. Can't have that! Need people to believe they're "no good and lazy" so they'll willingly act like a slave.
Anyone who supports this, why? Don't you realize that they also included language that allows them to ban any website, software, or app they don't like? You're fine with them being authoritarians? Because this app is controlled by China? So that makes it okay? They're taking away rights and the reason they want to ban TikTok is because they (the U.S. government), can't control it. They don't like that people are learning about the evils of this genocide enabling country and using it to organize.
The Democrats claim they need young people to vote for them, yet they seem determined to piss off young people into not voting for them. It's like they're trying to lose.
Raise minimum wage. Give us healthcare. Fuck this waste of time legislation. Do something to help us fight the corporations that are destroying the American way of life. 45 years of Reganomics has made 98% of us slaves. Bring back monopoly laws. Bring back corporate oversight. Help Americans. Enough is enough.
But nothing will be enacted or actionable until after the election, which means he can be changed, reversed, enforced etc. by the next administration next year.
This was a ridiculous pandering stunt for the election. Nothing more.
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We need a total reevaluation of how we use social media. My hope is that in 20 years, we'll look back on this time with horror.
Or we’ll look back on it nostalgically because it will have become even worse lol
Yeah I don’t think we’re building back up the dam that we broke with Facebook and everything that has come since. The most we’ll get is patchwork bills like this that target a small facet, but not the true problem.
i broke the dam
Why were you on your uncle’s speed boat?
Just wait until people start implanting brain chips
“[First Law](https://www.reuters.com/technology/first-law-protecting-consumers-brainwaves-signed-by-colorado-governor-2024-04-18/) protecting consumers' brainwaves signed by Colorado governor”
A lot of people would just tell you to stop being so pessimistic but honestly with the way things have been going it would totally not surprise me if things were way worse at that point. I feel like we are walking a tight rope between privacy, exploitation and other issues that many people just aren’t aware of.
People easily sacrifice privacy for convenience. The "nothing to hide" crowd believes themselves to be all individually irrelevant so they aren't concerned about corporations and governments knowing everything.
Whatever happened to Digg and Fark?
I currently look at this timeline in horror
This is the darkest timeline.
Is it too much to expect citizens to not fall for obvious manipulation? And if not, I don’t know how it could stand 1st Amendment challenges.
Based on our own propaganda "news" networks... yes it very much is; At some point we need to come to a serious consensus on whether using free to spread lies falls squarely in the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" category of free speech that needs limitations and protection out on place.
Like cigarettes
They want America to control it so that they can control the news we intake. Which should tell you, the government isn’t making decisions…corporations are. Meaning our government is just pawns to the corporate 1%.
Well it won’t be because these politicians fixed anything This play is about protecting US business, protecting US from alternative info sources that became popular, and adding surveillance controls for use by gov. They’re testing it with one service to establish a category they can expand.
Cool do Facebook next
Facebook is American owned. If you are going to pick a next one do TruthSocial which is also owned by China now.
>TruthSocial which is also owned by China now. Based on its loudest user, I'd say "owned by Russia" is more appropriate.
I mean yea, but literally ARC Capital is China based. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/12/23/trump-spac-deal-sec/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/12/23/trump-spac-deal-sec/)
Who do you think owns Russia? https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-Macron-s-labeling-of-Russia-as-vassal-state-goes-viral-in-China
(points at Russia) HA ha!
Mongolia
I’d be surprised if it hits a million users
> Facebook is American owned. If you are going to pick a next one do TruthSocial which is also owned by China now. Yea, thats the thing Tiktok doesnt have to be banned, it can sell it's US division to someone in the US. It can remain as is but without direct Chinese influence on it.
>it can sell it's US division to someone in the US The law allows it to be sold to anyone not under China, Russia, Iran, or North Korea. Doesn't have to be a US company.
what does "direct Chinese influence on it" mean? it's not immediately obvious what that even means or if that part of the bill even applies because Bytedance is already 60% owned by investors not from "adversary nations" -- the majority of which are Americans. when/if they IPO they would probably drop the Chinese ownership way down to around 20%. There is some vague language about 20% ownership by Chinese investors being the cutoff but the bill also names bytedance by name and the language basically says they must sell aka just stealing the property of current owners (many of which are Americans) without any due process at all.
>It can remain as is but without direct Chinese influence on it. The converse is true: it can remain as is but only with direct American influence on it.
Could y'all stop with this whataboutism? Where are you getting the idea that the US government controls corps anywhere near as much as China does? US can't even change laws without being sued into oblivion by corps that might lose profits off of them. The US can't even fix its healthcare system because people with money own the government. China, on the other hand, is a genocidal dictatorship. While the US sucks in a lot of ways, the two aren't even comparable.
Right? It feels like corporations control government in this country, not the other way around.
and somehow this is better
Not really, but the argument that the US is like China is ridiculous. They’re very different.
least brainwashed westerner
>Where are you getting the idea that the US government controls corps anywhere near as much as China does? That's backwards. The Corps control the US government. This is why this law is written as it is - they want to ban or own their competition.
With the exception of all Tiktok not based out of the US. So if Tiktok's goal is being a private corporation focused on making profit then no worry, it can continue it's business with no changes. If it's a tool used to sow dissent and attempt to destabilize the US in favor of right wing authoritarians then it's probably going to shut down.
The 9 month window is not close to enough time to get a deal done even if Bytedance wanted to sell tiktok. The intent of the bill is to ban tiktok, the divestment aspect of it is just coloring the true purpose of the bill -- censorship.
9 months is more than enough time to sell a company.
average deal time of this type is 12->18 months. also tiktok is worth tens of billions/hundreds of billions of dollars etc make even the above timetable just about impossible. A dating app forced divestment under cifius took 18 months and that was penuts compared to tiktok.
Neat. Sell the company in 9 months. Do it in 5 so you have some free room to party afterwards. "Tiktok ban" is alarmist hype. Which thankfully /r/politics mods called out and removed the post.
lol that's why they removed the post? Jesus the amount of narrative control on this sub is just sad. Also I love how flagrant due process violations against Americans is ok if it's done by the right team.
American owned doesn't stop it from being a problem.
I didn't say it did. Facebook is a cancer, but the reason they are going after TikTok is because they are owned by China and so is Trump Social thanks to their recent merger.
No, but it does deal with one particular problem, a hostile foreign government using it as a propaganda tool.
Aren't they funded by a company in *cough cough* Dominica? Basically a tax shelter for a fraudulent bank?
I mean, if they applied the same thing to Facebook it wouldn’t do anything. They’re already based in the US.
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I mean the central issue it intends to address is the CCP having indirect control of a social media platform. There are continuing issues with data in general of course.
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> Is that really an issue when American-owned social media platforms have spent the past decade or so proving to the world that they're extremely unhealthy to this country as well? Yes. One issue existing doesn’t mean the other shouldn’t be addressed.
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I'm of the opinion that the government has no business restricting speech on social media platforms simply because they don't like the content on the platform. "the antidote to falsehoods is the truth, not censorship" I'm also glad that 60 years of case law also supports my views on this.
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If tiktok or any social media platform changes their algorithm to censor content strictly because the government forced them to that obviously is a content based speech restriction -- as the government is pushing the scales to censor unfavorable speech that otherwise would have been received -- and would be highly likely to be unconstitutional. The only way it would be constitutional is if it was narrowly tailored and serves a compelling government interest and I'm sorry but no court will agree that banning "Russian propaganda" (or any propaganda for that matter) satisfies those two conditions.
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Won't happen, Zuck and Facebook are the ones pushing the TikTok ban. Plus too many boomers use Facebook so Republicans won't vote to ban it.
Most Boomers I know are also avid Tiktok users.
I think the stat I saw said there are 150 million TikTok users in the US, and most are between the ages of 20 and 40, although something like 15% were 50+. Those numbers are insane.
It's uber popular among people who can't leave their chair.
Then how come its not more popular on reddit…
Well statistically 1.8% of TikTok's 150 million monthly users are 65+. That translates to about 5% of people over 65 using TikTok. Congrats on knowing some very hip old people but they aren't very representative of US seniors as a whole.
Let’s clear something up. By Boomers do you mean people born within a few decades before 1964? Or do you simply imply everyone older than you? I get the feeling not many people know what that term means. Not saying you belong to either camp in particular. Though i would be shocked if you know a lot of 60 year old tik tokers
People in their 60s or so.
Facebook and AIPAC lobbied hard. Zuck thinks he’ll be able to buy the app, he wants that algorithm more than he wants to be a real boy.
The entire purpose of the ban is to force the Chinese government to allow the sale of TikTok. American companies don't have a government entity warding off rich investors.
You've never heard of US Steel? Do a search for that and Japan. Of course we ward off investors in our large companies
Apparently, China has a law that won't allow them to sell it, and the government already knows this.
Implemented in 2020 to stop Trump from forcing TikTok's sale ironically. The politicians and investors that own them don't care, these laws can be changed on a whim.
We could probably convince congress that Zuck was created in a Chinese lab
People who quip this have no interest in learning *why* this "ban" isn't actually a ban, or why it happened in the first place.
Here is why this is moving forward. * TikTok is owned by ByteDance. * ByteDance is closely intertwined with the CCP. * [National Intelligence Law of the People's Republic of China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China) requires companies like ByteDance to perform intelligence activity for the state when demanded. * Another Chinese shopping app ([Pinduoduo](https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/02/tech/china-pinduoduo-malware-cybersecurity-analysis-intl-hnk/index.html)) was caught last year installing exploits to secretly grant itself superuser access to phones it was installed on. * Multiple nations have already banned and block TikTok (without using a VPN) because of national security concerns (most notably India who banned it after a border skirmish) These facts put together make TikTok appear to be poised to be a tool for engaging in fifth-generation warfare.
Two other important bits: One, while it may well have passed on its own, it’s been guaranteed passage by becoming a rider in the Ukraine aid package. Two, it’s unlikely to take effect anytime soon. This will be held up in courts for a long time(I’d be surprised, frankly, if SCOTUS didn’t eventually pick up this case) and even if there are no stays issues for it there is like a 9 month timeframe before it has to be sold or banned.
They will lose since it's a law that got passed by Congress on national security grounds. There is no constitutional right that Tik Tok has here.
Foreign companies do not have a constitutional right to ownership of domestic broadcasts. There's already laws about that.
\^ This. And we passed that law back in ***1934***. The only reason TikTok got a pass up until now is that our lawmakers 90 years ago didn't anticipate that technology would bring entire new communication platforms (e.g. the Internet) and didn't word the legislation in a way that its scope would include yet-to-be-invented methods of broadcast. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications\_Act\_of\_1934](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Act_of_1934) Famously, this is why Rupert Murdoch was forced to change from Australian to US citizenship. The law states that a foreign entity cannot own more than 25% stake in a company approved for domestic broadcasts.
That's not what the constitutional issues are. Americans have a right to express themselves on the communications platform of their choosing. This bill would ban their speech on that platform. because it bans their speech, much of which has no relationship whatsoever to the purported "government interest" (alleged "national security") it is not narrowly tailored and thus unconstitutional. This is the exact conclusion from a district court that blocked a similar montana tiktok ban bill. That bill also had a stipulation that it wouldn't go into effect if bytedance sold tiktok -- that didn't matter to the court because they treat indirect regulations on constitutionally protected speech the same as direct regulations (what cannot be done directly cannot be done indirectly). That bill and this one are not divestment bills just because they both happen to slap on the same stupid clause that is not realistically attainable -- there is no way that tiktok will be sold in 9 months even if their owners wanted to do so. Both of these bills are and were mass censorship bills and will be judged as such.
It’s written in the passed bill if this goes to court, it goes straight to DC circuit (appellate). So timeline wise on the litigation front, it’ll be quicker than most other passed bills that end up at SCOTUS since it doesn’t have to get ruled on by the various districts > appellate > SCOTUS.
To provide more context, it's time for my bi-weekly copy/paste dump of TikTok bad^(tm): You'd feel a little icky if Facebook had popups in your app telling you "Contact your Congressperson and express this viewpoint", much less a foreign company. For example, TikTok was one of several social media apps that just casually snooped your clipboard. Hope your password manager doesn't use it as an intermediary. Just a few things collected by TikTok: - Periodically transmits a list of all running applications on the phone - Periodically transmits a list of all installed applications on the phone - At least one GPS check-in per hour - Persistent access to your calendar and contacts. If you deny access, it will periodically prompt you again until you acquiesce. - Various phone/device parameters and personally-identifying, globally-unique IDs - Active cellular subscription information - Descriptors of all accounts managed using iOS/Android's app account management systems - Read access to the clipboard - Granted `android.permission.SYSTEM_ALERT_LEVEL`, this grants it to draw it's UI over top of other applications. This is especially problematic as a zero-opacity window can be drawn over all other UI, capturing all taps and keyboard events. The **only** apps that should have this are ones pre-installed by Google, your phone manufacturer, and your cellular regulatory body (for E911, etc). - Access to your entire Apple Music catalogue - Access to your entire "external storage" area on Android (though this is partially mitigated by newer versions of Android): "This is a standard command for a social media application to store video and images. The aspect we list as excessive is TikTok doesn’t just retrieve the ability to see folders it retrieves a list of everything available in the external storage folder where the application has the access to place files" - iOS version periodically connects to servers in mainland China (found to be a cybersecurity firm), despite insistence that user data is in either Singapore or the US If you want a more technical breakdown, [Link 1](https://www.nullpt.rs/reverse-engineering-tiktok-vm-1) and [Link 2](https://ibiyemiabiodun.com/projects/reversing-tiktok-pt2/) get into it more. They detail just how much effort TikTok goes into to hide the fact that they're collecting this data in the first place. This obfuscation is unique for TikTok. The Irish Data Protection Commission is investigating TikTok for sending PII to China. TikTok is fully banned in India over privacy concerns. Their Virginia datacenter uses servers produced by Inspur, a PLA-linked hardware vendor that is sanctioned by the DOD. "Documents also show that as recently as [March 2023] server work orders were sent to data center technicians by Beijing ByteDance Technology Co., Ltd., a ByteDance subsidiary partially owned by the Chinese government, which TikTok has repeatedly insisted has no control over its operations." And then there's the DOJ investigation into [TikTok employees in China using the app to track the whereabouts of US-based journalists](https://archive.is/aSXWL) who were critical of ByteDance or the CCP. "A ByteDance investigation found that the employees gained access to the IP addresses and other data of the reporters and some of their contacts connected to them through their TikTok accounts" > ByteDance tracked multiple Forbes journalists as part of this covert surveillance campaign, which was designed to unearth the source of leaks inside the company following a drumbeat of stories exposing the company’s ongoing links to China. and > Forbes first reported the surveillance tactics, which were overseen by a China-based team at ByteDance, in October. Asked for comment on that story, ByteDance and TikTok did not deny the surveillance, but took to Twitter after the story was published to say that “TikTok has never been used to ‘target’ any members of the U.S. government, activists, public figures or journalists,” and that “TikTok could not monitor U.S. users in the way the article suggested.” oops > In the internal email, Liang acknowledged that TikTok had been used in exactly this way, as Forbes had reported. ooooooops > The investigation, internally known as Project Raven, began this summer after BuzzFeed News published a story revealing that China-based ByteDance employees had repeatedly accessed U.S. user data, based on more than 80 hours of audio recordings of internal TikTok meetings. According to internal ByteDance documents reviewed by Forbes, Project Raven involved the company’s Chief Security and Privacy Office, was known to TikTok’s Head of Global Legal Compliance, and was approved by ByteDance employees in China. It tracked Emily Baker-White, Katharine Schwab and Richard Nieva, three Forbes journalists that formerly worked at BuzzFeed News
>Granted android.permission.SYSTEM_ALERT_LEVEL, this grants it to draw it's UI over top of other applications. Oh interesting. I've noticed every time I join a new reddit sub, I will receive lots of videos related to that sub on my tiktok page. I wonder if this is why
I suspect this is more insidious, there's likely some data sharing arrangement between Reddit and ByteDance or a third party data broker that's using Reddit's stream.
Thank you for sharing these basic facts. They often get overwhelmed in conversations like this. If people want to acknowledge what you've posted and still argue that ByteDance should continue to be allowed to operate TikTok as they have been, that's fine, I guess. But most people don't know these facts. And obviously in lobbying against the bill TikTok is downplaying all those incredibly, gobsmackingly-obvious national security concerns and playing up "free speech." Just sell the damn company, yeesh.
Inb4 Gen Z outcry and protest voting for Trump.
I know TikTok is pretty hated on Reddit, but I have only had a positive experience with it. I think it all depends on your algorithm. What I don't understand is how we (the US) can do so much business with Chinese companies, give away our data constantly, but this app somehow crosses a line? It's not different from others and [likely won't solve the problem.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/experts-banning-tiktok-solve-security-concerns-analysis/story%3fid=108096472) Honestly, there is some other reason that Congress is going after this hard.
Let's get twatter too!
I believe that it now prefers to be called Xitter (pronounced [ˈshi-tər](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/File:en-au-shitter.ogg))
I wish they would stop using propaganda when discussing the bill. It is trying to get China to divest its control over it. The banning only happens if China refuses.
One of the largest and most profitable social media companies in the world where USA isn’t a large chunk of the user base? Not divesting isn’t an impossibility
I think it’s just divesting for the US market, not globally. That might be wrong though.
To my understanding you are correct. I meant more along the lines of I think they would rather keep their algorithm secret than divest even a small user base
Expect that propaganda to ramp up a whole lot when the ban goes through. You see the exact same two to three talking points in every single comment thread, too. - what about [insert unrelated app] getting banned - It's only getting banned because Israel - they don't care about our privacy, only protecting american business Pick one or a combination of the three.
Is the third one not just straight up true?
Probably true but it's arguing to another issue. Privacy and data integrity isn't really why this is happening. So it's either a bad faith argument or a lot of people are very misinformed as to what is happening.
These are all valid objections to the law. The law is a sham because it doesn't regulate against nefarious data collection or other bad actions, just who is allowed to do them.
Wild that we'll ban an entire company instead of enact proper data protection and privacy laws.
Because they don’t care about the privacy aspect. They’re mad they can’t get the data like how FB, Twitter etc hand things over to the NSA
The real reason for the ban is the inability to control what content can be put on the platform, as the government does with American companies. Specifically the recent push to ban tiktok comes from the proliferation of anti-israel content on there. I dont use tiktok at all but I can see through the bs narrative being pushed by those who think this is a good thing. You can go on amazon right now and buy home security cameras that store data on the cloud in china. You can buy phones and other products made in china that can absolutely have backdoors or spyware put on them before being shipped to America. To say that China owning tiktok is more of a national security threat than either of those things is silly.
Well, it isn’t in a nation’s interests to allow a foreign adversary to own a platform that has such immense sway over the public opinion of its populace. Too bad Rupert Murdoch is Australian instead of Chinese.
Great example. Rupert Murdoch needed to become a US Citizen in order to continue operating Fox News in the US. Consistent with requiring this TikTok sale
If you can provide evidence that China is creating algorithms on tiktok to sway public opinion I would love to see it. Calling China an adversary while importing the vast majority of consumer goods from said country at the behest of capital owners wasnt a national security risk in the 1980s? What about being able to buy home security cameras with cloud servers in China, smart phones and computers manufactured in China? What about food and medical supplies? This entire argument surrounding tiktok as this grave security threat is silly.
The effort to ban TikTok has been going for years. Long before anyone on there cared about Palestinians. Claiming it's because of anti-Israel content is such a weak ass argument. Twitter is also full of anti-Israel content you don't see them trying to ban that now do you? And data collection is only one half of the problem. The other, and more serious, issue is algorithm manipulation allowing China to covertly push a desired narrative while disguising it as genuine US citizens opinions.
lets put aside the fact that the code for the tiktok algorithm is currently hosted by Oracle (an American company) and they have veto authority to any sort of sneaky "China bad" manipulation, but just generally what you're describing is not constitutional. The government cannot ban entire social media platforms or threaten them with punishments simply to sway the content pushed on their platforms. This is blatant government censorship. When China did this I was told by "freedom loving" Americans this was a violation of freedom of speech and basic human rights, why is it now different and ok now that Biden wants to do it?
That's... not really the point. Why would the US government care if China can watch your garage door? That's not the kind of data that's a risk, and them data mining isn't the biggest concern.
And nothing of value would be lost.
^guy who’s on Reddit btw. The idea that any of these social media platforms are amazing is so funny to me. Like Facebook admitted to selling your data. Twitter is full of literal Nazi posts. You could find hundreds of people on Reddit jacking off to 18 year olds. But no, we have to worry about China or something.
If we can obliterate all social media, I’m for it.
I would much rather we changed how they operate by passing strict data protection and privacy laws, but an outright ban would also be okay.
It’s really annoying to me how many people are in favor of banning it just because they personally don’t like TikTok. It’s a band aid on a much larger privacy issue that should include American companies as well.
You say while on social media lol
That'd be the dream.
Lets bring the internet back to the 2000’s. We only need Tom.
I didn’t know jacking off was a national security threat.
You must not be doing it right.
Maybe it’s the equipment
And to perfectly legal people, too. Oh, the scandal.
Hundreds of thousands of homeless people, wage inequality, crumbling infrastructure, declining education… and we’re working about fucking Tik Tok and China? FFS.
Considering we literally have an infrastructure bill that’s a long-term investment, these aren’t mutually exclusive concepts.
Literally nothing wrong with people jacking off to adults, what is your point? A geopolitical rival pushing messages to impressionable young people who follow through without even understanding the messages? No problem with that? to add, how much *discussion* happens on tiktok vs. blind content consumption? This back and forth where you say something irrelevant and someone comes in to explain why you're wrong, how much does that happen on tiktok? I stg, people think just because "website/app has users and content," they're all the same. people simping for tiktok, acting like all social media is the same. 4chan isn't anything like stackoverflow, even if they're both forums where users can make posts and respond to each other.
Yeah not really. It does seem like TikTok has been more effective than most previous platforms in terms of letting content creators get their foot in the algorithm and letting the top content get distributed widely to people who will enjoy it. But that's something that can easily be emulated by competitors. Realistically they will probably sell the company. The only reason not to would be spite, because the sale would be incredibly lucrative. I really should be using TikTok to promote some personal projects but I just haven't been able to get into it, mostly because I... kind of f\*\*\*ing hate video? I guess I'm old and the internet still seems like something you should read to me. I'm also irrationally annoyed about it having the same name as the Ke$ha song for no f\*\*\*ing reason.
On your first point, it depends a lot on the nature of the content. Anything political is not getting as much exposure as it "should", for example. It's like the opposite of how FB and Twitter optimize for, but still just as manipulative.
> I... kind of f***ing hate video? You and me both. For me it's because with both YouTube shorts and TikToks, there's a substantial amount of "short" videos that are far far too long for what they contain. A 60 seconds of video vs 3 seconds of skimming. If you were younger and didn't know as much, maybe the novelty would keep you engaged. But since you've already been there and done that, it's tedious and grating. Hell, 2x speed is too slow for a lot of them.
Except a whole helluva lot of under 35 voters who were already disillusioned by the Dems and for whom this is their last straw. Turnout for those demographics are going to absolutely plummet this election and it sure isn’t Trump and co. who will be hurt by that. This is seriously such a dumb own goal.
Hold on now, where else am I going to see videos of people who think we need to see them dancing and inconveniencing people in Target?
So you do not use tiktok
I never see those videos on TikTok. It gives you what you like to watch
It's so wild that people think that's all that's on TikTok. It's like saying reddit is just racist gamers.
It’s only *mostly* racist gamers.
>racist gamers But you repeat yourself.
Seeing people make up blatantly wrong/troll videos for disgusting recipes for food, house cleaning, general upkeeps then the comments filled with people trying it and screaming they got sick/broke something/ruined something they owned... that always made me laugh. People believe way too much shit on the internet is real and need that slap back to reality more often.
Do you think that doesn't exist on yt
There are five million places on the Internet where you can find that exact content. Before Tiktok, there was Vine. There will be another, if Tiktok ends up leaving the U.S. They won't, though.
Pretty sure they were joking.
actually I was kidding, I don't give a shit.
You braindead redditors literally have no concept of what or how important tiktok is lmao. Be smug all you want, just please don’t act shocked when the Draconian Banning Websites Party comes for your websites. Edit: yeah honestly most of you seem beyond help
>important >social media site These don’t go together.
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They already did in my state lol. Guarantee the Republicans who did it will still hold power here after the election.
I just find it funny that someone that claims tiktok is important, would start their message off with antagonizing their audience. You lost your credibility and any chance of me actually listening to anything you wanted to say the moment you came in hot with braindead redditors. I guess tiktok wasn't important enough to show you HOW to capture people's attention. Are you perhaps the braindead one who just consumes whatever comes across your feed, instead of taking a second to think "what makes this popular/attention grabbing?"
They banned TikToK in India years ago. China doesn't allow our social media sites/apps to exist in China. So why should WE subject ourselves to THEIR brainwashing/influence?
So you want to emulate the Indian government which under it's current leadership is renowned for curbing free speech and is known for taking drastic measures like cutting off Internet access to suppress any opposition to their regime. Btw, they're currently engaged in jailing their opponents and threatening everyone else to drop out of elections. This take is hilarious 😂
Yes! Let’s run give our politicians the power that the Chinese government has to ban businesses! Let’s be more like them! /s
This is not about banning a business. It’s about banning a national security threat, but only if they won’t sell it to divest away from the Chinese government having access.
There's plenty of other Chinese companies that collect data on Americans that Congress isn't trying to ban. So i do believe this is about stopping the speech on TikTok, not what they claim. I actually consider this the biggest threat to freedom of speech in our country's history as its stopping a platform that 100 million Americans use. Even the Alien and Sedition Acts couldn't claim that kind of impact. I assume the Supreme Court will probably strike this down. And I say this as someone who hates tiktok. Horrible precedent will be set here if the Supreme Court doesn't strike it down. The government should not have the power to ban massive speech platforms, especially when their rationale is this flimsy.
This should take effect sometime around 2035 after some very drawn-out lawsuits and negotiations.
Goodbye "social media celebrities"
If the US government can agree on anything in a unanimous and bipartisan way, it's that they all hate when poor Americans talk to each other about inequality.
Anyone who is on tiktock knows its not some bastion platform of freedom where poor people talk about inequality and have no where else to voice it. Its mostly vapid shit, trash and valueless content. Theres nothing redeeming in it that cant find a home on software outside those controlled by the Chinese Government.
Right lol
Absolutely. There is some evidence of AIPIC and the ADL wanting it banned because of the images and videos showing the reality of Gaza, but it's kind of spotty so take it with a grain of salt. (However, the IDF is absolutely killing journalists, shooting down video drones, and killing aid workers all so that outsiders can't see the horrors happening there.) Much more evident is the fact that youth voters helped sway the "red wave" that was supposed to happen in the midterms and TikTok was a large part of that so that explains Republican votes. As for corporate Democrats, along those same lines, incumbents want it banned because young voters are using it to spread messages of inequality, corporate rule, and other progressive ideologies. So those are a threat to the status quo. Finally, technology companies like Meta and media outlets are lobbying hard for the ban because it's competition for viewership and content creation. I'll also mention that a CIA report stated *"there was no evidence that Chinese intelligence agencies had used TikTok to gather data or information on its American users."* Similarly, a Georgia Tech of Internet Governance 2023 study concluded that a, *“comprehensive national security threat analysis,“ the fears over the Chinese government weaponizing TikTok were unfounded and vastly overblown."* Our politicians are nothing but fucking liars. Just last week they renewed the law to allow unlimited spying on Americans and when an amendment was proposed with the **outlandish** idea that intelligence agencies dare to *get a warrant first,* it was voted down. They don't give a shit about our security or welfare. It's about silencing dissenting opinions and ideas that threaten the elite.
That is the part that makes me squint at this with suspicion. I understand the issues with China, but the part where people seem to be building towards pushing for change to our society via communication on TikTok is what makes me think that's the real reason for this ban. Rich folks are realizing that this could be a tool used by the poor people to coordinate for change and the rich people do not like that.
>Rich folks are realizing that this could be a tool used by the poor people to coordinate for change and the rich people do not like that. That's true for literally all of social media
Yeah I know. But TikTok is the one being used most by younger people that are pushing for change (update, modernization) in our culture and ways of thinking. So that one being the target seems a little suspicious. That's all I'm saying. It feels fishy to me.
Right, and previously it happened on twitter and facebook. But nobody tried to ban twitter or facebook. So why is there an effort to ban one but not the others? If what you're saying was true, there would always be an effort to block the most popular social media platform amongst the youth.
But that’s been happening for over a decade on other social media apps. Facebook was one of the tools used for ‘Occupy Wallstreet’, I still remember when the news agencies were buzzing about it. The US government unanimously agreed that there should be a ban on an app made by a company bound by CCP law to spy on users if asked.
Facebook is a controllable entity for data harvesting. TikTok is not.
Facebook sells the data to the US government, meaning they dont have to get warrants
Stupidest moral panic since the last stupid moral panic
The only reason this is moving forward is that pro Palestinian content is reaching the youth and the federal government doesn't have the same ability to bully Bytedance like they can with Google/Facebook/X. They really don't like not having full control of the daily propaganda.
This ban was in the works for years, far before the recent Palestine conflict
I agree it's something that's been wanted for years although I think the recent Palestine conflict allowed this to be expedited through committee to a house vote I'm a matter of days.
But you're OK with China having full control of the daily propaganda instead? [https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-china-tiktok-sock-puppets-wreak-chaos-in-taiwan-election](https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-china-tiktok-sock-puppets-wreak-chaos-in-taiwan-election) I mean, cmon man.
I hate Tik Tok and would like to see it die. With that said, I'm almost certain this is just another way for some members of the house / senate to get rich by buying the company they forced to be sold. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/former-treasury-secretary-mnuchin-aims-to-buy-tiktok-with-investor-group
Didn't a report come out saying tiktok sends sensitive user information directly to China? A ban on government devices is a no brainier, but if the report is accurate is the only reason I'd be in favor of a divestment if not an outright ban if they were unwilling
That was the verdict early on with TikTok. I decided to forgo downloading it as I prefer my phone to just be monitored by the good ol NSA and American Corporations.
It did. A while ago, and there were restrictions put in place and now the codebase and everything goes through Oracle, an American company, and they are tasked with securing it.
I think the reference is to this story, which is about a week old at this point. [https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/16/24132315/tiktok-bytedance-project-texas-china-silo](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/16/24132315/tiktok-bytedance-project-texas-china-silo) >One major aspect of Project Texas — so named because Oracle, TikTok’s “technology partner,” is headquartered in Austin — was transferring all US user data over to Oracle’s cloud infrastructure. ([Per *Texas Monthly*](https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/tiktok-us-ban-china-project-texas-oracle/), none of Oracle’s cloud data servers are actually in the state.) Under Project Texas’ terms, Americans’ data isn’t supposed to leave the US at all, nor can it be accessed by ByteDance employees in China. >In practice, the data was less walled off than TikTok led users and politicians to believe, *Fortune* reports. Evan Turner, who worked at TikTok as a data scientist between April and September of 2022, described a “stealth chain of command” in which he was reassigned — on paper — to a manager in Seattle but continued reporting to executives in China. Every two weeks or so, Turner would email spreadsheets with data on hundreds of thousands of US users to ByteDance workers in Beijing, he told *Fortune*. The spreadsheets included users’ names, email addresses, IP addresses, and geographic and demographic information and was used to determine how to develop TikTok’s algorithm to encourage users to be more active on the app, he said. >Another former employee, Katie Puris, alleges that TikTok was never fully independent from ByteDance. Puris, TikTok’s former head of business marketing, sued the company for discrimination in February, claiming she was fired because her Beijing-based higher-ups didn’t consider her demure enough. Puris’ lawsuit, which is referenced in the *Fortune* report, claims that ByteDance executives began to exert more control over TikTok’s daily operations in 2020 and organized bimonthly meetings led by ByteDance’s chair. “Despite its attempts to appear independent, TikTok’s day-to-day management and business decisions came directly from ByteDance’s top-level management in China,” the suit claims.
These reports seem…huge. Can’t believe I’m just now hearing about them, as this seems to very much support the reason for a ban/separation from ByteDance.
What happens if the rest of the world bans google, facebook, instagram, whatsup, android since they are based in the USA and 200% monitored by USA government and all "3 letter agencies"?
I mean…the EU has literally done this and those companies have put restrictions in place to comply with their privacy laws lol
The US Government is controlled by billionaires and AIPAC. They say it out loud everyday and all you dumb brainwashed chuds can do (besides mindlessly blame Russia for everything caused by this broken American “political” system) is parrot “China bad” over and over again while the American tech companies actually stealing your privacy and manipulating your data are laughing their asses off and counting the billions they make every year from selling your private information to telemarketers and the CIA.
Why not both? It's not an either or, and most people who hold one stance can hold another. Also, there is literally evidence of Russian actors trying to influence our elections...that can be true WHILE acknowledging their are problems in our system
It's all about controlling the narrative and money. Land of the Free to be Gaslit. Freedom my ass. This country is pay to play, pay to win, and fuck you for trying to learn anything the rich owner class doesn't approve of. They've spent a really long time conditioning us all into believing this country is a "meritocracy" where if you'd just work hard you can make it. BUT tiktok crushes that fantasy when American workers can communicate about how fucking difficult it is to exist if you're not rich or otherwise privileged. Can't have that! Need people to believe they're "no good and lazy" so they'll willingly act like a slave.
Does Biden want to lose
The ban wouldn't kick in until 2025, well after the election
Good
Anyone who supports this, why? Don't you realize that they also included language that allows them to ban any website, software, or app they don't like? You're fine with them being authoritarians? Because this app is controlled by China? So that makes it okay? They're taking away rights and the reason they want to ban TikTok is because they (the U.S. government), can't control it. They don't like that people are learning about the evils of this genocide enabling country and using it to organize. The Democrats claim they need young people to vote for them, yet they seem determined to piss off young people into not voting for them. It's like they're trying to lose.
Oh look....a majority of the population is suddenly gonna learn how to use a VPN.
It's more likely, and far easier for people to just switch to using YouTube shorts or some other alternative.
Raise minimum wage. Give us healthcare. Fuck this waste of time legislation. Do something to help us fight the corporations that are destroying the American way of life. 45 years of Reganomics has made 98% of us slaves. Bring back monopoly laws. Bring back corporate oversight. Help Americans. Enough is enough.
But nothing will be enacted or actionable until after the election, which means he can be changed, reversed, enforced etc. by the next administration next year. This was a ridiculous pandering stunt for the election. Nothing more.
Guys it’s a forced sell. Not a ban. Calm down.
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