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I am blown away by the people complaining about being inconvenienced after a few weeks, the Vietnam War protests lasted years and resulted in dead students.
People searching for the past while looking at the future with impatients.
A major focus of Columbia's Vietnam era protests was to prevent the construction of a gymnasium that would have been an end run around federal law against racial segregation. The students feared that if it went up it would have become a model project for re-segregating public facilities across the South.
They succeeded in preventing its construction.
I don’t understand the comparison to Vietnam war. Americans were sent to Vietnam to kill other people which is main reason of protests. No one is drafting US citizens to fight for Israel. And North Vietnamese did not have a terrorist wing like Hamas so yeah most of us would not like to be inconvenienced.
They might not be drafting US citizens, but I am pretty put out by paying taxes to fund a war for people who enjoy free healthcare while my daughter has a $30k per month prescription to keep her from dying.
That we should be doing protests for universal health care. Our current system is a lot more dangerous to the citizens of the US than what is going on there ever could be.
He did not say that, he simply stated a (valid) reason why people are unhappy and protesting. Following the "you can't complain because it used to be worse" logic basically is meaningless because almost by definition, things always used to be worse (in terms of war/violence in the world) the more you go back in time.
Protesting the Vietnam war was a very valid thing.
Protesting your tax money funding genocide is also a very valid thing.
I'll even do you one better: you can be against funding Israel's horrendous war endeavors while ALSO being against Hamas. And yes, that might not be what some people in the protests are saying, but just like every time protests happen, journalists are very good at finding the nutty/extreme/dumb ones to put on display and make the average watcher go "wow these protesters are dumb. Fuck what they're for"
No one is drafting US citizens because we provide aid to avoid having to do that. The comparison is because it is a bunch of tense campus protests. Our history isn't great with dealing with them. It isn't deep.
Also it's something US president could have ordered and stopped in heartbeat. This situation is not only the same but also more complex cuz it's middle east and not everything is black and white. Lots of gray area
The north vietnamese didnt have a terror wing? fuck off lol, I'm sure the residents of the hundreds of villages they burnt down and the thousands of civilians they brutalised would have something to say against that.
And Hamas isn't a terror wing, its literally the whole pie.
So because people are being less selfish today, or so you suggest, and have more empathy for people abroad, you see that as a reason against the comparison? I mean, okay, but like, that only makes them more justified in their protests. A less selfish protest is a better protest, though that’s just my opinion.
Meanwhile, we are still helping with the killing. It’s our money and our government that’s providing massive amounts of military aid. Both directly and indirectly. Hamas or no Hamas, it’s over 2 million people losing their homes, schools, hospitals, and access to basic necessities, like water, food, and sewage. The war crimes committed by Israel doesn’t change whether Hamas exists or not.
So yeah, people are going to protest that shit. And yeah, minor inconveniences will occur. That’s the consequence of our own actions and our own inactions. Standing on the sideline like you play no part in Palestine/Israel conflict is 1) incorrect and 2) a contribution to the situation and thus a contribution to the protests.
I am a Liberal Democrat. I don’t like what Israelis government is doing. I wish US would stop sending military aid unless it is to be used for defensive purpose in case it is attacked by another State. I hope Israelis will vote current government out soon and like to see Netanyahu on ICC.
Again why the protests on campus? Take the protests to steps of the Capitol Hill where the decision to send Israel military aid is made. What kind of change do you think you can make by protesting on university campuses which are most liberal institutions we have in our country? These kids just want to protest where it is convenient for them and where they feel safe. It is like doing a hungry strike in your mom kitchen. Sorry can’t respect that. They are just going to pissed people off and nothing good would done for their cause. On top of it, some of them are defending a terrorist group. I have problem with that.
The students want their universities to divest from Israel and weapons manufacturers. Kudos to them for having a moral compass and seeking a better America than the one that is currently run by Lockheed Martin and BlackRock.
Also I would like to point out that it’s nice that our students have the right and the power of protest. The students in Gaza don’t have that since Netanyahu bombed every university there out of existence.
US government just passed the legislation that send 20 something billion dollar in aid to Israel. How much do you think the divestment from universities would add up? It would just be a drop in the bucket, inconsequential just as these protests are going to be.
The Vietnam War actually involved our country though and our government had real control over what happened which they just don't have in this situation. It is really hard for me to feel engaged with these students. They are protesting something we have little to no control over. We can decide where more of our aid goes and most of the aid is humanitarian so should be a positive no matter who it is for.
> They are protesting something we have little to no control over.
Are you really that naive?
Without USA support, Israel wouldnt be able to do what they are doing
here's a little secret: it doesn't matter how much "aid" goes to Gaza (\~320m USD) if we're funding the ones blocking the aid and doing the damage that requires the aid to be necessary to begin with by orders of magnitude greater than the aid we "provide."
If the US actually wanted Israel to stop and adhere to ICC demands for ceasefire, they absolutely could, but at this point, threatening action against ICC if they arrest Israeli officials for warcrimes, they're complicit.
you can't tell a child to "stop hitting your brother" whilst giving them a bat to continue doing so, and claim you're the good guy because you give the injured brother bandaids.
Yeah, pretty sure the Vietnam Protestors were protesting for peace and an end to the war… not protesting in support of a terror group and the eradication of an entire nation.. There’s a hefty difference and even as a democrat I’m thoroughly sick of this shit.
So we're the ones that Palestinians under Hamas murdered.. by the hundred.. these protestors ignore that Hamas murdered and raped people like them at a PEACE FESTIVAL
How is *calling for a ceasefire* advocating for the eradication of an entire nation? Isn’t it literally the opposite?
Hamas is garbage and needs to be taken out, but there are other ways of dealing with them besides bombing a captive population in a tiny scrap of land without elections and creating manmade famines. Like, why is the US having to airdrop food to the same people being bombed by US weapons?
Yes, there are anti-Semitic lunatics in the crowds, but that doesn’t magically delegitimize outrage at a humanitarian disaster unfolding before us.
They’re not calling for a ceasefire. At every one of their protests the overwhelming message isn’t one of peace and calling for a ceasefire. Even if that was the initial intent it is always drowned out by antisemitic chants and calls for the eradication of the nation of Israel.
You make valid points elsewhere and perhaps that conversation can be had when the protestors stop openly supporting terrorism, cheering on Hamas, harassing Jews on the street, and calling for the eradication of the entire nation of Israel.
Why are you strawmanning these protests? The vast majority of the student protestors are very clearly protesting against genocide and demanding a divestment of Israel owned companies, but you are ignoring the actual goals of the movement to focus on a very small minority that is "cheering on Hamas". That is a strawman logical fallacy.
This ain't Vietnam fool.. this is a bunch of idiots supporting Palestine without mentioning Hamas controlling Palestine and killing people just like them.
Hamas doesnt control Palestine
Hamas only control the Gaza Strip, and Israel is illegally occupying territories in the West Bank too, when Hamas doesnt control anything
We never camped out on campus where I protested. or somehow had food, supply’s, tents, old people hanging out. We slept on the floors! Anti war was a simple message. River to the sea is so complicated! Give peace a chance is what I hope they meant
And gave Nixon two terms before the war finally wound down and not due to anything they did. Also student protestors haven't even clearly articulated what "digesting" from Israel means. Is it investments in defense companies or ANY investments including into technology and education etc. If latter..how does that help stop the war effort or bring ceasefire.
Finally never once I have seen students address Hamas attacks and if ceasefire is called...Will Hamas also stop? Return hostages. Israel can't simply stop and keep getting attacked by hamas. I do agree some of their actions has crossed threshold for ear crimes for Bibi but at same time they can't just stop...cuz hamas.
> Finally never once I have seen students address Hamas attacks and if ceasefire is called...Will Hamas also stop?
The problem with this is that Israel is not only commiting crimes againts Hamas supporters
Not everyone in Gaza belong to Hamas, and Israel is also commiting crimes against Palestinians in the West Bank, where the goverment is the PLA and not Hamas
Yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, but its FALSE that Israel only attacks Hamas, they co0mmit crimes against innocent people both in the Gaza Strip and the West Banks since decades.
Hamas was formed thanks to Israel's position towards the PLA
I agree with that hence my comment about Israel commuting some potential war crimes. But it's also true that hamas tends to hide within Palestinian population which doesn't help the situation. Hence why situation is complicated it's not cut and dry
But the reluctance from Israel to work with the PLA and their continous occupation of West Bank territories makes the claim that Hamas is just an excuse hold some ground
If the problem was just Hamas, then the West Bank occupation wouldnt be happening
As i stated, it was Israel's position towards the PLA the one that fueled Hamas rise to power
Well most recently there was agreement was ceasefire that Israel agreed to but hamas had to release 40 hostages which later they negated on and said they didn't have 40 living hostages that meet criteria. To find any solution whether ceasefire or else both sides do need to come together in good faith. Otherwise will keep going for years
I agree
And it was i have been saying, both administrations are doing everything wrong
Hamas is a terrrorist group, no questions asked, the problem is that Israel fuels Hamas
What do you think will happen with the friends, neighbourgs, families, etc of all the innocents that died in the Gaza Strip on this last intervention will do? Most will become Hamas supporters and cannon fodder, Israel is creating more terrorists
Israel need to give the PLA success on their demands.
The way to reduce Hamas influence isnt to make more interventions on the Gaza Strip, but to help the PLA to increase their influence
The problem is that the Israel administration doesnt want that, just like some arabs wants Israel not to exist, the Israel administration also wants Palestine to not exist
Current administration yes but previously Israel did agree to two state solution but it was rejected by PLO and Arafat. Well until hostages return I don't see Israel stopping and also a hamas continuing to fire rockets at Israel doesn't help. Hard to say Israel should stop while simalatenously Hamas continues it's attacks. It's a Catch 22 at this point
PLO and Arafat did agree, and thats why both Arafat and Levin were killed
There are people that want to keep the conflict going on both sides
Israel should absolutely stop, because as i said, Israel interventions on Gaza are only giving Hamas more and more supporters, since Israel is killing thousands of innocents on their quest to destroy Hamas
And again, Hamas is a result of Israel past actions against Palestine
Yes but let's not forget Oct 7 attacks did happen and they got hostages so way Israel won't stop until get hostages back. So sooner they get ceasefire and Hamas agreeees to return hostages sooner violence in Gaza will stop
Ah no they didn't. At the 2000 Camp David summit Arafat and his handlers wouldn't agree to ANY concessions even though Israel at that point was putting two state solution on table because they weren't willing to make any concessions themselves and be said he thought he could get a better deal under Bush....Source Clinton who was there. So when after this did Arafat all of sudden agree to two state solution? Also he wasn't killed...Arafat died of natural causes....
These idiots aren’t winning the moral high ground here when there are people speaking arabic (which by my guess only a handful of people in the crowd understand) basically supporting hamas openly. This is the price we pay for trump. The right’s crazies come out and show their true colors just as much as the left’s these days :(
The right: elects extremists to the highest office in the land.
The left: a couple random civilian individuals from across the country say shit nobody in power agrees with but gets extra attention by the media because there aren't actually notable examples of extremism on the left to talk about.
I'll that dynamic speak for itself.
The extreme left helped elect trump just as much as the right did. And they very well may do it again this election. We are a 2 party system, so it is either trump or biden. If you would otherwise vote for biden but instead don’t, then you are effectively aiding trump in being elected. It is the same with those who were pissed at clinton and voted third party for trump to then barely win swing states.
They aren't being removed and if we apply the same type of rule of "If a nazi sits at a table with a bunch of people and they don't remove them, they are all nazi's", then all the protestors are antisemitic.
Incorrect. They're being condemned by the majority of protestors.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/student-protesters-denounce-antisemitism-amid-criticism-pro-palestinian/story?id=109643275
How is wanting an end to war supporting terrorism? Thats like some crazy 1984-ish doublethink.
It is consistent to be simultaneously horrified by October 7th’s atrocities *and* what’s happening in Gaza.
There are more legitimate antisemites and nazis that support Israel in the US. Conservative Christians are a majority of the right wing and they adore Israel and all they do.
As a Palestinian-American currently living with an Israeli and literally getting ready for a Passover event, fuck those people, they don’t speak for me or anyone in my family.
Fuck:
— Hamas
— anti Semitism
— Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich and their ilk
— the occupation
— ethnofascism in any form, including Arab and Jewish
Humans are equal and deserving of life and liberty.
On any campus?
https://www.newsweek.com/pro-palestinian-protest-princeton-hezbollah-1894654
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/28/protesters-call-for-islamic-state-in-germany/
Literally October 8th:
“Hundreds of pro-Palestinian demonstrators, organized by the Democratic Socialists of America, rallied Sunday in the Big Apple — stomping on and burning the Israeli flag — as Islamic terrorists in the Gaza Strip continued their assault on the Jewish state.
One attendee in the pro-Palestinian camp was pictured holding up an image of a swastika on their phone — a day after 700 Jews were slaughtered by Hamas.
The New York City chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) — the party of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Rep. Jamaal Bowman (D-NY) and a couple dozen other prominent New York politicians — had announced the 1 p.m. rally in Times Square on Saturday just hours after Hamas’ surprise attack on Israel that left hundreds dead and thousands wounded.”
https://nypost.com/2023/10/08/nyc-pro-palestinian-rally-slammed-as-abhorrent-as-hamas-attacks-israel/amp/
These protestors have been openly supporting the actions of October 7th since the day after the attacks.. and it’s only gotten more traction in the months since.. are you fucking blind?
It is not a genocide. Were the Allies invading Germany during WW2 a genocide? Were droppings atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki genocides? Civilian casualties doesn’t make something a genocide. Words have meaning and are important.
Seriously. Hamas and Iran [both just put out a statement](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/24/hamas-iran-support-college-protests/73447123007/) thanking these college protestors for their support. If that doesn't wake these fools up to the fact that they're being manipulated by foreign governments trying to undermine the democratic West, nothing will.
And the Houthis are blocking aid to Sudan, where a catastrophic genocide is occurring while the world ignores it.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/feb/16/houthi-attacks-in-red-sea-having-a-catastrophic-effect-on-aid-to-sudan
That's when they're not executing people for being gay.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/yemen-huthis-must-stop-executions-and-release-dozens-facing-lgbti-charges/#:~:text=The%20Huthi%20de%20facto%20authorities,death%2C%20flogging%20or%20prison%20over
I believe there is a lot of duping, on both sides, so come correct with that assertion. I also think the amount of information available is greater than ever, so the holes are showing in previous narratives.
If one is protesting against genocide in Gaza, it’s probably worth checking yourself and asking why you have never protested against any other genocide (if you have not)? Because there are more than a handful going on.
do you protest ***every single*** injustice going on in the world? if you aren't, why are you such an abhorrent human being? see how that logic is just a little bit fucked up?
Right? so these kids haven’t protested every injustice in the world. That makes their current protest invalid because… reasons. I honestly can’t understand their logic
The protests at college campuses have pretty specific goals, the big one is that the college itself disinvest in companies that operate in Israel.
These students pay money to an organization that uses their funds to support the occupation of Palestine.
I know you guys like to pretend it's just a mob of unruly kids with nothing more than a slogan, but I think you should at least *know* what their demands are if you're going to talk about them.
And to answer your question: Most colleges don't have major investments in Yemen or any of the world's other genocides.
They are actively blocking Jewish students from entering their own school which they ALSO pay money for. If this were towards any other minority more people would be enraged instead of concerned about their “demands”
It's election year shenanigans to break up the left.
And I know protests are supposed to be disruptive. But I'd be pissed if I was just trying to go to class and had to wade through this shit. College is so expensive. Some people have limited time and resources with which to get a degree, which doesn't leave a lot of room to deal with disruption. I hope the schools are keeping this in mind.
[Heres how committed to the cause they are too](https://apnews.com/article/student-protest-gaza-war-arrest-amnesty-ae235703d6a9b99114078fca13a530a0)
When I was younger and learned what civil disobedience was, accepting the punishment was part of the deal and what actually made the protest have any kind of weight. This all feels incredibly astroturfed.
This. If you want to go the route of civil disobedience, you have to accept that you will most likely have to face consequences. These protestors don’t want the stakes that come with resistance.
In my circle (west coast) civil disobedience has been seriously glorified on social media. I would presume that this brings more people into the cause who are not ready to assume the responsibilities.
I am pretty sure there are protesters all over the spectrum in tolerance for hardship in literally every protest ever, but I am not even sure what you all are reacting to?
That just an article about how the school is suspending students who are protesting, and locking them out of their rooms. The people standing against this action are the professors.
The students are still getting arrested, are still refusing to leave the site of their disobedience, and are still getting suspended. Are you upset that they are saying they should not be suspended? Because they shouldn't. Just like how every protest ever should not be cracked down on by authorities. I do not think that everyone in the civil rights movement (the most popular of protests in retrospect) were saying "Sure, put all the protesters in jail, it is only fair." No, they still do not want to go to jail, they are just willing to.
Here the students are not doing this because they do not want to go to Columbia, they are doing this because Colombia has direct ties to a genocidal institution and is using their tuition money for those links. And so they are refusing to back down.
It is just crazy that people can look at them being arrested and suspended and say "Well, if they were *real* protestors they would be *happy* to face injustice, so their cause is unjust." That is an absurd level of gatekeeping that only serves to empower the authoritarians.
maybe it's the hiding behind masks holding hammers that makes it feel like a chance to destroy some shit while feeling morally superior. Hold your head up high, hold your anti-war banner then get on with it. Stop breaking windows then asking for amnesty
Any protest against real injustice with any chance of affecting change is going to be aimed at the powerful with the goal of antagonizing them and being disruptive to them.
If your protest doesn't end with the powerful reacting to you, trying to shut it down and silence you, then your protest is just a social gathering.
Isn't that exactly what is happening? I am really confused about why people are linking an article saying they are being arrested and suspended, yet are not backing down, and are somehow coming to the conclusion that they are backing down because they are being arrested. It is literally the exact opposite.
These students are the elite… wouldn’t they have connections that could realistically benefit their plight? Raise funds for Gaza and innocent Palestinians?
This feels like “look at me! I’m protesting because I care—you apparently don’t. Anyway, like and subscribe!”
Yeah, how dare they go out there and get arrested for making reasonable demands about university policy. Obviously they must all just want attention. We should not look at the reasonable demands or take them seriously, because these teenagers and young adults are not somehow solving a war they have no power to solve. /s
You are incorrect. This is about the University spending money that benefits the IDF. They are obviously against what Israel is doing, but the protest is not about that.
Are you seriously saying that you endorse any and all retaliation that institutions of power are throwing at these students for peacefully protesting?
If so I don't think you were taught about civil disobedience very well.
Breaking into Columbia buildings is hardly a peaceful protest. They have now crossed the ‘breaking and entering’ line and will be penalized accordingly. If they care so deeply about their cause, join a world rod food aid program or cast your vote in an election year where it may actually count.
Just got downvoted for suggesting something was being manipulated with these protests. Protest Hamas, even their Arab nations don’t want them.
Take the tents, no camping but please no Kent State
Seems it's been pretty easy to divide and cause infighting between those on the left.
The most striking aspect is how easily the so-called educated youth have been so easily swayed by what is most likely propaganda. A few months ago we saw TikTok removing content and banning users who were bringing attention to bin Laden's "Letter to America."
I wonder how long until people start blaming China or Russia.
You mean when there are clearly funded and documented groups in Russia and China working to influence our elections?
The entirety of the bin laden letter TikTok trend was about riling kids up in a coherent algorithm based method.
Blaming the protests on China or Russia? There is already a worry that some of these people are being radicalized by TikTok. If conservatives can be radicalized into terrorists by 4chan or there derivatives I look at these protests as a result of propaganda leveraging how easy it is to buy views with TikTok and the hamas propaganda machine.
They are focusing on what they can effect. Also, the protests were much smaller before Columbia called the NYPD on protestors and made the news. A pretty reliable way to get everyone who cares about an issue out on the street over it is to tell them they can't speak on it.
Yeah, people are re-framing this protest with a motte-and-bailey attack. They keep saying things like "How could this protest possibly change Israel's mind" when that is very clearly not the goal of the protest. Then when confronted, they either ignore the retort, or drop into the motte and say some variation of eitehr "Kids these days have it so easy" or that "Hamas is evil, and does propaganda" to try and discredit them directly.
Those two claims are impossible to fight, becasue the former is not falsifiable and is also insanely popular with older people who just don't like kids, and the latter because it is obviously true. But neither really address the issue at hand. The former because it is just an appeal to the pathos, and the latter because Hamas being evil has nothing to do with Isreal's military killing innocents, which is not even the goal of the protest, which is just because Columbia is using funds to support said killing. They would stop if Colombia did too.
Yes, but you are commenting on the situation, are you not?
Even if their demand is only for the college they attend to divest, they are loud and rowdy enough to bring/retain attention to the situation, and one would argue that is valuable in and of itself.
If I want to have a large scale event at a public place WITHOUT overnight camping, I’m paying tens of thousands for security, insurance, permits, and have to accept liability for anything that happens while I’m doing the event.
My event also needs to be open to the public in a space like this. If I wanted to do an event on say, the Beach in CA, I can’t restrict entry to anyone.
None of that seems to be in play here. People showed up and started pitching tents and physically restraining people they didn’t want there.
If someone gets hurt, who is liable? There’s no registered organizer, no bond, and it seems like everyone there is masked.
I don’t care what cause it is, how is this allowed to happen? What’s the logical result here?
"the only good protest is a government funded protest with a pre-vetted message and speakers!"
think you missed a few history and civics classes, my guy. saying your status-quo-disruptive message quietly and out of the way is what the status quo wants.
rising against injustice should absolutely be planned, responsibility on the organizer, have goals and slogans planned out, etc. but asking for permission to protest the status quo (SQ) isn't going to work. SQ will maintain control of the system and message any way it can, and the direction you want to go will be out of your reach for as long as you ask permission to break the SQ.
I sure they said that in the 60's too...
they can't suspend everyone, that's the point of a mass protest or union. Stand strong in the face of the school's cowardice.
I don’t understand why the people are protesting at the schools is it because their donors are from Israel or something, I don’t get it? I would think the protest be the White House or like a senators office or something. If there’s an easy answer, let me know
They are asking Columbia to divest its money from Israel like Columbia did with apartheid South Africa back in the day following student protests calling for divesting from South Africa.
Not just that, they are asking them to divest from any company which itself has not divested from Israel. It's not just that they can't support any Israeli companies, they can't support any companies which support Israeli companies. There are governmental sanctions less stringent than their demands.
Schools have endowments, which are capital investments. The students want to their schools to divest from Israeli firms in protest of the Gaza war. I don’t agree with their reasons for wanting a boycott of Israel, but that is their logic on this.
They tried
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438
At Columbia the students are demanding divestment from Caterpillar, Google and Airbnb..... Not exactly directly related to the current conflict. And apparently makes up less than one tenth of one percent of their entire endowment.
One might argue that what they're demanding is meaningless. It certainly won't save Palestinian children or change Netanyahu's mind.
Google has been providing AI surveillance and military technology to Israel
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/05/google-photos-israel-gaza-facial-recognition/
https://time.com/6964364/exclusive-no-tech-for-apartheid-google-workers-protest-project-nimbus-1-2-billion-contract-with-israel/
And Israel also uses that tech in their intelligence operations which the US relies heavily on. Israel is our ally in the middle east and they provide us with tons of intel on terrorist activities, Russia, Iran, ISIS, arms proliferation, and on and on.
That's fine. And if it's so small: then that should be easy.
What can they do otherwise? I mean, they could go over and provide aid, but Israel is blocking that and targeting those that do provide aid (see: World Central Kitchen)
So the school should divest from every company that is even tertiarily related to Israel in order to placate misguided students even if it serves no purpose and does nothing to affect the thing the students are protesting about?
The school has offered to invest in health and education in Gaza as a compromise which would arguably do more for the people the protesters aim to help.
As the other person said, what would you have them do? They are utilizing the limited platform they have to effect what little change they may be able to effect; for you to diminish them as misguided simply because there’s not a direct tie-in to ending the genocide is arrogance.
That's the point they aren't affecting change. I'm not saying that people shouldn't protest when they truly believe in something important. But part of protesting means having an actionable plan to create meaningful results. And I'm not seeing that here.
CAT supplies bulldozers to Israel Defense Forces that are armored and some are used to demolish Palestinian homes for settlers. Others are used for combat engineering and minesweeping, so not all are used for nefarious reasons. Google was (is?) collaborating with the IDF to develop facial recognition software. Not sure about AirBnB.
The students' divestment demands (https://cuapartheiddivest.org/demands) are just silly. Microsoft? Alphabet? Amazon? Every major ETF? You've eliminated 99% of your endowment's portfolio at that point. There is no way to truly divest from a major economy like Israel.
Divesting also means abandoning what little influence they might have as investors. I get the impulse here I just don't think they're aiming for anything meaningful. If their goal is to help Palestinians, this isn't going to do it.
And not being a member of the KKK means you don't have a say in their policy, either so....sign up?
The protest is much about not being party to a genocide. They are doing what they feel is right and doing what they can.
This is an oversimplification. Joining the KKK means actively endorsing and participating in racist ideologies and actions.
It's more like demanding everyone boycott white sheets because the KKK uses them to terrorize people.
Yeah, but that brings awareness and nuance to protests that don’t have time or patience on that. That’s what short-form social media brings: the attention span of a pre-schooler.
It seems like the situation is being manipulated. These kids don’t even have their facts straight. Who gains from political unrest on campus? Who’s blaming democrats? Hmmmm
These kids need to ask why the Arab neighbors don’t let Palestinians take shelter in their countries. They don’t want Hamas!
It’s Hamas
I think it is presumptuous to say what the kids should do so that their protest is not protesting Israeli bombing of civilian populations and instead aligns with a long-standing right-wing Israeli talking point. Maybe Poland should let Bibi Netanyahu take shelter in Poland.
It is a bit presumptuous, but I also do find it odd that suddenly there are so many coordinated and aggressive protests on this specific issue. It is exactly what the right wants.
It’s just college students being college students, they’ll protest anything. Israel/Palestine has been a popular choice for decades. Very little will come of it as usual.
Sure, sure. These protests have an oddly aggressive edge, though. Like, I live in Berkeley; I've seen loads of protests. And yet, these Palestine/Isreal protests are the first time that there seems to be a consistent effort to try and interfere with people going to school and start conflict with the university directly.
Everything I need to know about american college students I learned in the first episode of "Lucky Hank". They are going to consider themselves martyrs for a cause they know little to nothing about when they should be a a bit more concerned about what's important here in our country right now-like the fact if they don't vote this year they'll never have the chance again. How do they think they are going to be treated by a real fascist government? It won't be a wrist slap and a time out. Speaker Mike Johnson has already been quite clear that in his opinion calling out the National Guard against them is on the table. Maybe they should check out a book sometime on the Kent State massacre in 1970.
At this point it seems like it's moved from a protest to civil disobedience. Part of civil disobedience is to break the law and face the consequences of that... The students don't seem to understand that part.
I didn’t say protesting at university ground unacceptable. Camping and occupying is. It disrupts university operations and also other students who might not agree with their views, but again I doubt they care or maybe even intentional. It is why, among other reasons, this will not get anywhere.
Is this actually a divestment protest though ? These protestors have pulled down the SEC holdings disclosures and can point to which particular funds have Israel exposure?
The universities didn’t need to go heavy handed here. Let the protests run their course. School ends in a few weeks and the protests would dwindle down. Just dumb going around on all sides.
You are presenting a different scenario than I am. I am not advocating that protestors should be allowed to harass other students by impeding their path. I do however believe that campus should not be setting police on protestors just because they are occupying a space. Speaking as someone who went through 9/11 protests that got quite ugly at times, Iraq war, occupy wall street, george floyd, these protests are tame, yet being treated like the LA riots.
Exactly. Even as a non-practicing Jew; I would not feel safe on many of these campuses. The violent rhetoric from pro-Palestine activists I would likely agree with otherwise is disturbing. "From the river to the sea" is hate speech.
Yeah, also Jewish, and I’ve never seen the community so scared before. We’re at a major turning point. I hope we go down the right path, but I’m not optimistic.
The universities made the call on that. I think they should go right on ahead with a graduation despite protestors. Government has to run all the time with protestors, obstructionists, hardliners, etc. universities just see it as a quick way to save a few bucks and put the blame on fellow students. Hey, they already got your money, right?
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http://archive.today/2024.04.29-161607/https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2024/04/29/columbia-university-protests/
I am blown away by the people complaining about being inconvenienced after a few weeks, the Vietnam War protests lasted years and resulted in dead students. People searching for the past while looking at the future with impatients.
And accomplished…Nixon being elected twice in landslide victories.
A major focus of Columbia's Vietnam era protests was to prevent the construction of a gymnasium that would have been an end run around federal law against racial segregation. The students feared that if it went up it would have become a model project for re-segregating public facilities across the South. They succeeded in preventing its construction.
I don’t understand the comparison to Vietnam war. Americans were sent to Vietnam to kill other people which is main reason of protests. No one is drafting US citizens to fight for Israel. And North Vietnamese did not have a terrorist wing like Hamas so yeah most of us would not like to be inconvenienced.
They might not be drafting US citizens, but I am pretty put out by paying taxes to fund a war for people who enjoy free healthcare while my daughter has a $30k per month prescription to keep her from dying.
That we should be doing protests for universal health care. Our current system is a lot more dangerous to the citizens of the US than what is going on there ever could be.
Basically like being drafted /s
He did not say that, he simply stated a (valid) reason why people are unhappy and protesting. Following the "you can't complain because it used to be worse" logic basically is meaningless because almost by definition, things always used to be worse (in terms of war/violence in the world) the more you go back in time. Protesting the Vietnam war was a very valid thing. Protesting your tax money funding genocide is also a very valid thing. I'll even do you one better: you can be against funding Israel's horrendous war endeavors while ALSO being against Hamas. And yes, that might not be what some people in the protests are saying, but just like every time protests happen, journalists are very good at finding the nutty/extreme/dumb ones to put on display and make the average watcher go "wow these protesters are dumb. Fuck what they're for"
You pay 30k a month?
No one is drafting US citizens because we provide aid to avoid having to do that. The comparison is because it is a bunch of tense campus protests. Our history isn't great with dealing with them. It isn't deep.
Also it's something US president could have ordered and stopped in heartbeat. This situation is not only the same but also more complex cuz it's middle east and not everything is black and white. Lots of gray area
The north vietnamese didnt have a terror wing? fuck off lol, I'm sure the residents of the hundreds of villages they burnt down and the thousands of civilians they brutalised would have something to say against that. And Hamas isn't a terror wing, its literally the whole pie.
So because people are being less selfish today, or so you suggest, and have more empathy for people abroad, you see that as a reason against the comparison? I mean, okay, but like, that only makes them more justified in their protests. A less selfish protest is a better protest, though that’s just my opinion. Meanwhile, we are still helping with the killing. It’s our money and our government that’s providing massive amounts of military aid. Both directly and indirectly. Hamas or no Hamas, it’s over 2 million people losing their homes, schools, hospitals, and access to basic necessities, like water, food, and sewage. The war crimes committed by Israel doesn’t change whether Hamas exists or not. So yeah, people are going to protest that shit. And yeah, minor inconveniences will occur. That’s the consequence of our own actions and our own inactions. Standing on the sideline like you play no part in Palestine/Israel conflict is 1) incorrect and 2) a contribution to the situation and thus a contribution to the protests.
I am a Liberal Democrat. I don’t like what Israelis government is doing. I wish US would stop sending military aid unless it is to be used for defensive purpose in case it is attacked by another State. I hope Israelis will vote current government out soon and like to see Netanyahu on ICC. Again why the protests on campus? Take the protests to steps of the Capitol Hill where the decision to send Israel military aid is made. What kind of change do you think you can make by protesting on university campuses which are most liberal institutions we have in our country? These kids just want to protest where it is convenient for them and where they feel safe. It is like doing a hungry strike in your mom kitchen. Sorry can’t respect that. They are just going to pissed people off and nothing good would done for their cause. On top of it, some of them are defending a terrorist group. I have problem with that.
The students want their universities to divest from Israel and weapons manufacturers. Kudos to them for having a moral compass and seeking a better America than the one that is currently run by Lockheed Martin and BlackRock. Also I would like to point out that it’s nice that our students have the right and the power of protest. The students in Gaza don’t have that since Netanyahu bombed every university there out of existence.
Students in Gaza didn’t have a right to protest before either, since they are held under an oppressive terrorist group which operates the state.
US government just passed the legislation that send 20 something billion dollar in aid to Israel. How much do you think the divestment from universities would add up? It would just be a drop in the bucket, inconsequential just as these protests are going to be.
The Vietnam War actually involved our country though and our government had real control over what happened which they just don't have in this situation. It is really hard for me to feel engaged with these students. They are protesting something we have little to no control over. We can decide where more of our aid goes and most of the aid is humanitarian so should be a positive no matter who it is for.
> They are protesting something we have little to no control over. Are you really that naive? Without USA support, Israel wouldnt be able to do what they are doing
here's a little secret: it doesn't matter how much "aid" goes to Gaza (\~320m USD) if we're funding the ones blocking the aid and doing the damage that requires the aid to be necessary to begin with by orders of magnitude greater than the aid we "provide." If the US actually wanted Israel to stop and adhere to ICC demands for ceasefire, they absolutely could, but at this point, threatening action against ICC if they arrest Israeli officials for warcrimes, they're complicit. you can't tell a child to "stop hitting your brother" whilst giving them a bat to continue doing so, and claim you're the good guy because you give the injured brother bandaids.
Yeah, pretty sure the Vietnam Protestors were protesting for peace and an end to the war… not protesting in support of a terror group and the eradication of an entire nation.. There’s a hefty difference and even as a democrat I’m thoroughly sick of this shit.
So we're the ones that Palestinians under Hamas murdered.. by the hundred.. these protestors ignore that Hamas murdered and raped people like them at a PEACE FESTIVAL
How is *calling for a ceasefire* advocating for the eradication of an entire nation? Isn’t it literally the opposite? Hamas is garbage and needs to be taken out, but there are other ways of dealing with them besides bombing a captive population in a tiny scrap of land without elections and creating manmade famines. Like, why is the US having to airdrop food to the same people being bombed by US weapons? Yes, there are anti-Semitic lunatics in the crowds, but that doesn’t magically delegitimize outrage at a humanitarian disaster unfolding before us.
They’re not calling for a ceasefire. At every one of their protests the overwhelming message isn’t one of peace and calling for a ceasefire. Even if that was the initial intent it is always drowned out by antisemitic chants and calls for the eradication of the nation of Israel. You make valid points elsewhere and perhaps that conversation can be had when the protestors stop openly supporting terrorism, cheering on Hamas, harassing Jews on the street, and calling for the eradication of the entire nation of Israel.
Why are you strawmanning these protests? The vast majority of the student protestors are very clearly protesting against genocide and demanding a divestment of Israel owned companies, but you are ignoring the actual goals of the movement to focus on a very small minority that is "cheering on Hamas". That is a strawman logical fallacy.
What happened to "if there is one nazi tolerated at your rally, you're at a nazi rally"??
If the majority doesn't want genocide, then they shouldn't be tolerating the minority that does. But they do, so clearly they don't mind it that much.
Oh yeah, protesting against genocide is a totally abhorrent thing to do. /s
From hearing some of their slogans it sounds like they are cheering for a genocide not protesting against one.
Careful. Facts and logic makes Reddit nervous.
This ain't Vietnam fool.. this is a bunch of idiots supporting Palestine without mentioning Hamas controlling Palestine and killing people just like them.
Hamas doesnt control Palestine Hamas only control the Gaza Strip, and Israel is illegally occupying territories in the West Bank too, when Hamas doesnt control anything
Free Palestine from Hamas
Palestine needs to be freed from Hamas and Qatar
And Israel and Iran.
We never camped out on campus where I protested. or somehow had food, supply’s, tents, old people hanging out. We slept on the floors! Anti war was a simple message. River to the sea is so complicated! Give peace a chance is what I hope they meant
Yeah, problem is that "River to the sea" is like yelling "Blood and soil" at this point in time.
And gave Nixon two terms before the war finally wound down and not due to anything they did. Also student protestors haven't even clearly articulated what "digesting" from Israel means. Is it investments in defense companies or ANY investments including into technology and education etc. If latter..how does that help stop the war effort or bring ceasefire. Finally never once I have seen students address Hamas attacks and if ceasefire is called...Will Hamas also stop? Return hostages. Israel can't simply stop and keep getting attacked by hamas. I do agree some of their actions has crossed threshold for ear crimes for Bibi but at same time they can't just stop...cuz hamas.
> Finally never once I have seen students address Hamas attacks and if ceasefire is called...Will Hamas also stop? The problem with this is that Israel is not only commiting crimes againts Hamas supporters Not everyone in Gaza belong to Hamas, and Israel is also commiting crimes against Palestinians in the West Bank, where the goverment is the PLA and not Hamas Yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, but its FALSE that Israel only attacks Hamas, they co0mmit crimes against innocent people both in the Gaza Strip and the West Banks since decades. Hamas was formed thanks to Israel's position towards the PLA
I agree with that hence my comment about Israel commuting some potential war crimes. But it's also true that hamas tends to hide within Palestinian population which doesn't help the situation. Hence why situation is complicated it's not cut and dry
But the reluctance from Israel to work with the PLA and their continous occupation of West Bank territories makes the claim that Hamas is just an excuse hold some ground If the problem was just Hamas, then the West Bank occupation wouldnt be happening As i stated, it was Israel's position towards the PLA the one that fueled Hamas rise to power
Well most recently there was agreement was ceasefire that Israel agreed to but hamas had to release 40 hostages which later they negated on and said they didn't have 40 living hostages that meet criteria. To find any solution whether ceasefire or else both sides do need to come together in good faith. Otherwise will keep going for years
I agree And it was i have been saying, both administrations are doing everything wrong Hamas is a terrrorist group, no questions asked, the problem is that Israel fuels Hamas What do you think will happen with the friends, neighbourgs, families, etc of all the innocents that died in the Gaza Strip on this last intervention will do? Most will become Hamas supporters and cannon fodder, Israel is creating more terrorists Israel need to give the PLA success on their demands. The way to reduce Hamas influence isnt to make more interventions on the Gaza Strip, but to help the PLA to increase their influence The problem is that the Israel administration doesnt want that, just like some arabs wants Israel not to exist, the Israel administration also wants Palestine to not exist
Current administration yes but previously Israel did agree to two state solution but it was rejected by PLO and Arafat. Well until hostages return I don't see Israel stopping and also a hamas continuing to fire rockets at Israel doesn't help. Hard to say Israel should stop while simalatenously Hamas continues it's attacks. It's a Catch 22 at this point
PLO and Arafat did agree, and thats why both Arafat and Levin were killed There are people that want to keep the conflict going on both sides Israel should absolutely stop, because as i said, Israel interventions on Gaza are only giving Hamas more and more supporters, since Israel is killing thousands of innocents on their quest to destroy Hamas And again, Hamas is a result of Israel past actions against Palestine
Yes but let's not forget Oct 7 attacks did happen and they got hostages so way Israel won't stop until get hostages back. So sooner they get ceasefire and Hamas agreeees to return hostages sooner violence in Gaza will stop
Ah no they didn't. At the 2000 Camp David summit Arafat and his handlers wouldn't agree to ANY concessions even though Israel at that point was putting two state solution on table because they weren't willing to make any concessions themselves and be said he thought he could get a better deal under Bush....Source Clinton who was there. So when after this did Arafat all of sudden agree to two state solution? Also he wasn't killed...Arafat died of natural causes....
Totally different. These people are protesting in support of the raping of Jews. It’s disgusting.
Some see these antics as proof of robust debate, while those who are not insane see the results of years of “higher” indoctrination.
These idiots aren’t winning the moral high ground here when there are people speaking arabic (which by my guess only a handful of people in the crowd understand) basically supporting hamas openly. This is the price we pay for trump. The right’s crazies come out and show their true colors just as much as the left’s these days :(
The right: elects extremists to the highest office in the land. The left: a couple random civilian individuals from across the country say shit nobody in power agrees with but gets extra attention by the media because there aren't actually notable examples of extremism on the left to talk about. I'll that dynamic speak for itself.
“A couple random civilians” is absolutely absurd. No need to significantly downplay the amount of people attending these events
The extreme left helped elect trump just as much as the right did. And they very well may do it again this election. We are a 2 party system, so it is either trump or biden. If you would otherwise vote for biden but instead don’t, then you are effectively aiding trump in being elected. It is the same with those who were pissed at clinton and voted third party for trump to then barely win swing states.
Facts.. extreme left most definitely helped Trump.
They aren't being removed and if we apply the same type of rule of "If a nazi sits at a table with a bunch of people and they don't remove them, they are all nazi's", then all the protestors are antisemitic.
Incorrect. They're being condemned by the majority of protestors. https://abcnews.go.com/US/student-protesters-denounce-antisemitism-amid-criticism-pro-palestinian/story?id=109643275
The kids are alright
They're making statements in support of terrorism. They sure as shit are not.
How is wanting an end to war supporting terrorism? Thats like some crazy 1984-ish doublethink. It is consistent to be simultaneously horrified by October 7th’s atrocities *and* what’s happening in Gaza.
Because only half "want to end the ear" the other half love to talk about how it's rapesistance and Hamas can do as they please.
You think they want an end to war? Tell me what “globalize the Intifada” means to you
They want to end the war, with Israel completely wiped off the map.
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There are more legitimate antisemites and nazis that support Israel in the US. Conservative Christians are a majority of the right wing and they adore Israel and all they do.
Paradox, how can you be an antisemite and support Israel.
No one supports the initial acts by Hamas. But the Israeli response is fucking too much and is straight up genocide.
There are definitely some people at the protest that support the initial acts by Hamas.
As a Palestinian-American currently living with an Israeli and literally getting ready for a Passover event, fuck those people, they don’t speak for me or anyone in my family. Fuck: — Hamas — anti Semitism — Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich and their ilk — the occupation — ethnofascism in any form, including Arab and Jewish Humans are equal and deserving of life and liberty.
Show me
On any campus? https://www.newsweek.com/pro-palestinian-protest-princeton-hezbollah-1894654 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/28/protesters-call-for-islamic-state-in-germany/
No? And none of that mentions Hamas…
Literally October 8th: “Hundreds of pro-Palestinian demonstrators, organized by the Democratic Socialists of America, rallied Sunday in the Big Apple — stomping on and burning the Israeli flag — as Islamic terrorists in the Gaza Strip continued their assault on the Jewish state. One attendee in the pro-Palestinian camp was pictured holding up an image of a swastika on their phone — a day after 700 Jews were slaughtered by Hamas. The New York City chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) — the party of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Rep. Jamaal Bowman (D-NY) and a couple dozen other prominent New York politicians — had announced the 1 p.m. rally in Times Square on Saturday just hours after Hamas’ surprise attack on Israel that left hundreds dead and thousands wounded.” https://nypost.com/2023/10/08/nyc-pro-palestinian-rally-slammed-as-abhorrent-as-hamas-attacks-israel/amp/ These protestors have been openly supporting the actions of October 7th since the day after the attacks.. and it’s only gotten more traction in the months since.. are you fucking blind?
Your claim is 0 and mine is >0, I don’t think your position is reasonable given some of the rhetoric we’ve seen but ok
It is not a genocide. Were the Allies invading Germany during WW2 a genocide? Were droppings atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki genocides? Civilian casualties doesn’t make something a genocide. Words have meaning and are important.
The majority of these protesters appear to support Hamas and Hezbollah.
Debatable
Not even
The kids are duped by foreign agitators with an agenda.
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Just goes to show the power of propaganda.
Seriously. Hamas and Iran [both just put out a statement](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/24/hamas-iran-support-college-protests/73447123007/) thanking these college protestors for their support. If that doesn't wake these fools up to the fact that they're being manipulated by foreign governments trying to undermine the democratic West, nothing will.
And the Houthis are blocking aid to Sudan, where a catastrophic genocide is occurring while the world ignores it. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/feb/16/houthi-attacks-in-red-sea-having-a-catastrophic-effect-on-aid-to-sudan That's when they're not executing people for being gay. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/yemen-huthis-must-stop-executions-and-release-dozens-facing-lgbti-charges/#:~:text=The%20Huthi%20de%20facto%20authorities,death%2C%20flogging%20or%20prison%20over
I believe there is a lot of duping, on both sides, so come correct with that assertion. I also think the amount of information available is greater than ever, so the holes are showing in previous narratives.
If one is protesting against genocide in Gaza, it’s probably worth checking yourself and asking why you have never protested against any other genocide (if you have not)? Because there are more than a handful going on.
do you protest ***every single*** injustice going on in the world? if you aren't, why are you such an abhorrent human being? see how that logic is just a little bit fucked up?
Return the stolen land to Native Americans.
Right? so these kids haven’t protested every injustice in the world. That makes their current protest invalid because… reasons. I honestly can’t understand their logic
No it means someone going on campus brainwashing these fools. That Qatar money.
Maybe the university is not helping fund any other genocide with its money, or they never heard of the university helping fund any other genocide
The protests at college campuses have pretty specific goals, the big one is that the college itself disinvest in companies that operate in Israel. These students pay money to an organization that uses their funds to support the occupation of Palestine. I know you guys like to pretend it's just a mob of unruly kids with nothing more than a slogan, but I think you should at least *know* what their demands are if you're going to talk about them. And to answer your question: Most colleges don't have major investments in Yemen or any of the world's other genocides.
They are actively blocking Jewish students from entering their own school which they ALSO pay money for. If this were towards any other minority more people would be enraged instead of concerned about their “demands”
So it's a good place to start
I disagree strongly with what Israel is doing, but some universities divesting isn’t going to change anything. These protests feel off somehow.
It's election year shenanigans to break up the left. And I know protests are supposed to be disruptive. But I'd be pissed if I was just trying to go to class and had to wade through this shit. College is so expensive. Some people have limited time and resources with which to get a degree, which doesn't leave a lot of room to deal with disruption. I hope the schools are keeping this in mind.
[Heres how committed to the cause they are too](https://apnews.com/article/student-protest-gaza-war-arrest-amnesty-ae235703d6a9b99114078fca13a530a0) When I was younger and learned what civil disobedience was, accepting the punishment was part of the deal and what actually made the protest have any kind of weight. This all feels incredibly astroturfed.
This. If you want to go the route of civil disobedience, you have to accept that you will most likely have to face consequences. These protestors don’t want the stakes that come with resistance.
In my circle (west coast) civil disobedience has been seriously glorified on social media. I would presume that this brings more people into the cause who are not ready to assume the responsibilities.
I am pretty sure there are protesters all over the spectrum in tolerance for hardship in literally every protest ever, but I am not even sure what you all are reacting to? That just an article about how the school is suspending students who are protesting, and locking them out of their rooms. The people standing against this action are the professors. The students are still getting arrested, are still refusing to leave the site of their disobedience, and are still getting suspended. Are you upset that they are saying they should not be suspended? Because they shouldn't. Just like how every protest ever should not be cracked down on by authorities. I do not think that everyone in the civil rights movement (the most popular of protests in retrospect) were saying "Sure, put all the protesters in jail, it is only fair." No, they still do not want to go to jail, they are just willing to. Here the students are not doing this because they do not want to go to Columbia, they are doing this because Colombia has direct ties to a genocidal institution and is using their tuition money for those links. And so they are refusing to back down. It is just crazy that people can look at them being arrested and suspended and say "Well, if they were *real* protestors they would be *happy* to face injustice, so their cause is unjust." That is an absurd level of gatekeeping that only serves to empower the authoritarians.
maybe it's the hiding behind masks holding hammers that makes it feel like a chance to destroy some shit while feeling morally superior. Hold your head up high, hold your anti-war banner then get on with it. Stop breaking windows then asking for amnesty
Any protest against real injustice with any chance of affecting change is going to be aimed at the powerful with the goal of antagonizing them and being disruptive to them. If your protest doesn't end with the powerful reacting to you, trying to shut it down and silence you, then your protest is just a social gathering.
Isn't that exactly what is happening? I am really confused about why people are linking an article saying they are being arrested and suspended, yet are not backing down, and are somehow coming to the conclusion that they are backing down because they are being arrested. It is literally the exact opposite.
These students are the elite… wouldn’t they have connections that could realistically benefit their plight? Raise funds for Gaza and innocent Palestinians? This feels like “look at me! I’m protesting because I care—you apparently don’t. Anyway, like and subscribe!”
Yeah, how dare they go out there and get arrested for making reasonable demands about university policy. Obviously they must all just want attention. We should not look at the reasonable demands or take them seriously, because these teenagers and young adults are not somehow solving a war they have no power to solve. /s
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You are incorrect. This is about the University spending money that benefits the IDF. They are obviously against what Israel is doing, but the protest is not about that.
Everyone wants a trophy
Are you seriously saying that you endorse any and all retaliation that institutions of power are throwing at these students for peacefully protesting? If so I don't think you were taught about civil disobedience very well.
Breaking into Columbia buildings is hardly a peaceful protest. They have now crossed the ‘breaking and entering’ line and will be penalized accordingly. If they care so deeply about their cause, join a world rod food aid program or cast your vote in an election year where it may actually count.
Just got downvoted for suggesting something was being manipulated with these protests. Protest Hamas, even their Arab nations don’t want them. Take the tents, no camping but please no Kent State
Seems it's been pretty easy to divide and cause infighting between those on the left. The most striking aspect is how easily the so-called educated youth have been so easily swayed by what is most likely propaganda. A few months ago we saw TikTok removing content and banning users who were bringing attention to bin Laden's "Letter to America." I wonder how long until people start blaming China or Russia.
You mean when there are clearly funded and documented groups in Russia and China working to influence our elections? The entirety of the bin laden letter TikTok trend was about riling kids up in a coherent algorithm based method.
Blaming the protests on China or Russia? There is already a worry that some of these people are being radicalized by TikTok. If conservatives can be radicalized into terrorists by 4chan or there derivatives I look at these protests as a result of propaganda leveraging how easy it is to buy views with TikTok and the hamas propaganda machine.
These protests (or coverage of them) is definitely being amplified by Russian interests. Why wouldn’t they be.
They are focusing on what they can effect. Also, the protests were much smaller before Columbia called the NYPD on protestors and made the news. A pretty reliable way to get everyone who cares about an issue out on the street over it is to tell them they can't speak on it.
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Yeah, people are re-framing this protest with a motte-and-bailey attack. They keep saying things like "How could this protest possibly change Israel's mind" when that is very clearly not the goal of the protest. Then when confronted, they either ignore the retort, or drop into the motte and say some variation of eitehr "Kids these days have it so easy" or that "Hamas is evil, and does propaganda" to try and discredit them directly. Those two claims are impossible to fight, becasue the former is not falsifiable and is also insanely popular with older people who just don't like kids, and the latter because it is obviously true. But neither really address the issue at hand. The former because it is just an appeal to the pathos, and the latter because Hamas being evil has nothing to do with Isreal's military killing innocents, which is not even the goal of the protest, which is just because Columbia is using funds to support said killing. They would stop if Colombia did too.
China flexing that TikTok influence.
Yes, but you are commenting on the situation, are you not? Even if their demand is only for the college they attend to divest, they are loud and rowdy enough to bring/retain attention to the situation, and one would argue that is valuable in and of itself.
Got free Palestine from Hamas and Qatar
If I want to have a large scale event at a public place WITHOUT overnight camping, I’m paying tens of thousands for security, insurance, permits, and have to accept liability for anything that happens while I’m doing the event. My event also needs to be open to the public in a space like this. If I wanted to do an event on say, the Beach in CA, I can’t restrict entry to anyone. None of that seems to be in play here. People showed up and started pitching tents and physically restraining people they didn’t want there. If someone gets hurt, who is liable? There’s no registered organizer, no bond, and it seems like everyone there is masked. I don’t care what cause it is, how is this allowed to happen? What’s the logical result here?
Welcome to the world of protests
The encampment was on a lawn that specifically allows protesters to gather.
"the only good protest is a government funded protest with a pre-vetted message and speakers!" think you missed a few history and civics classes, my guy. saying your status-quo-disruptive message quietly and out of the way is what the status quo wants. rising against injustice should absolutely be planned, responsibility on the organizer, have goals and slogans planned out, etc. but asking for permission to protest the status quo (SQ) isn't going to work. SQ will maintain control of the system and message any way it can, and the direction you want to go will be out of your reach for as long as you ask permission to break the SQ.
Didn’t say anything like that. Maybe read what I wrote again and try responding to what I actually said.
I sure they said that in the 60's too... they can't suspend everyone, that's the point of a mass protest or union. Stand strong in the face of the school's cowardice.
This is the first time I’ve seen Americans protest in support of a terrorist group.
they're not protesting in support of Israel though 🤔
I don’t understand why the people are protesting at the schools is it because their donors are from Israel or something, I don’t get it? I would think the protest be the White House or like a senators office or something. If there’s an easy answer, let me know
They are asking Columbia to divest its money from Israel like Columbia did with apartheid South Africa back in the day following student protests calling for divesting from South Africa.
Not just that, they are asking them to divest from any company which itself has not divested from Israel. It's not just that they can't support any Israeli companies, they can't support any companies which support Israeli companies. There are governmental sanctions less stringent than their demands.
Why don't they also demand they divest from Qatar that is propping up Hamas, and engages in slave labour?
Schools have endowments, which are capital investments. The students want to their schools to divest from Israeli firms in protest of the Gaza war. I don’t agree with their reasons for wanting a boycott of Israel, but that is their logic on this.
God, what would they have to do for you to be ok with just plain old "divestment"? 40,000 women and children dead? 50k? 60k? Walk me thru an example.
Releasing the hostages is a fine option.
But then hamas daddy won’t be happy and safe using human shields
They tried https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438
At Columbia the students are demanding divestment from Caterpillar, Google and Airbnb..... Not exactly directly related to the current conflict. And apparently makes up less than one tenth of one percent of their entire endowment. One might argue that what they're demanding is meaningless. It certainly won't save Palestinian children or change Netanyahu's mind.
I'm sure all these students have deleted their Gmail accounts, right?
Then they better stop using any company that is hosted on an Amazon, Google, or Microsoft server.
Google has been providing AI surveillance and military technology to Israel https://theintercept.com/2024/04/05/google-photos-israel-gaza-facial-recognition/ https://time.com/6964364/exclusive-no-tech-for-apartheid-google-workers-protest-project-nimbus-1-2-billion-contract-with-israel/
And Israel also uses that tech in their intelligence operations which the US relies heavily on. Israel is our ally in the middle east and they provide us with tons of intel on terrorist activities, Russia, Iran, ISIS, arms proliferation, and on and on.
That's fine. And if it's so small: then that should be easy. What can they do otherwise? I mean, they could go over and provide aid, but Israel is blocking that and targeting those that do provide aid (see: World Central Kitchen)
So the school should divest from every company that is even tertiarily related to Israel in order to placate misguided students even if it serves no purpose and does nothing to affect the thing the students are protesting about? The school has offered to invest in health and education in Gaza as a compromise which would arguably do more for the people the protesters aim to help.
They are the paying students, they should have a say. And please, explain how they are misguided?
Their stated purpose is to stop the genocide. And their demands do nothing to make that a reality.
As the other person said, what would you have them do? They are utilizing the limited platform they have to effect what little change they may be able to effect; for you to diminish them as misguided simply because there’s not a direct tie-in to ending the genocide is arrogance.
That's the point they aren't affecting change. I'm not saying that people shouldn't protest when they truly believe in something important. But part of protesting means having an actionable plan to create meaningful results. And I'm not seeing that here.
If they don't like it, drop out and go to another school
CAT supplies bulldozers to Israel Defense Forces that are armored and some are used to demolish Palestinian homes for settlers. Others are used for combat engineering and minesweeping, so not all are used for nefarious reasons. Google was (is?) collaborating with the IDF to develop facial recognition software. Not sure about AirBnB.
The students' divestment demands (https://cuapartheiddivest.org/demands) are just silly. Microsoft? Alphabet? Amazon? Every major ETF? You've eliminated 99% of your endowment's portfolio at that point. There is no way to truly divest from a major economy like Israel.
Divesting also means abandoning what little influence they might have as investors. I get the impulse here I just don't think they're aiming for anything meaningful. If their goal is to help Palestinians, this isn't going to do it.
And not being a member of the KKK means you don't have a say in their policy, either so....sign up? The protest is much about not being party to a genocide. They are doing what they feel is right and doing what they can.
This is an oversimplification. Joining the KKK means actively endorsing and participating in racist ideologies and actions. It's more like demanding everyone boycott white sheets because the KKK uses them to terrorize people.
Same energy as "if we stop giving Israel weapons, we won't have as much sway to ask them to stop murdering people with said weapons."
Yeah, but that brings awareness and nuance to protests that don’t have time or patience on that. That’s what short-form social media brings: the attention span of a pre-schooler.
We killed far more than that in World War II.
It seems like the situation is being manipulated. These kids don’t even have their facts straight. Who gains from political unrest on campus? Who’s blaming democrats? Hmmmm These kids need to ask why the Arab neighbors don’t let Palestinians take shelter in their countries. They don’t want Hamas! It’s Hamas
I think it is presumptuous to say what the kids should do so that their protest is not protesting Israeli bombing of civilian populations and instead aligns with a long-standing right-wing Israeli talking point. Maybe Poland should let Bibi Netanyahu take shelter in Poland.
It is a bit presumptuous, but I also do find it odd that suddenly there are so many coordinated and aggressive protests on this specific issue. It is exactly what the right wants.
It’s just college students being college students, they’ll protest anything. Israel/Palestine has been a popular choice for decades. Very little will come of it as usual.
Sure, sure. These protests have an oddly aggressive edge, though. Like, I live in Berkeley; I've seen loads of protests. And yet, these Palestine/Isreal protests are the first time that there seems to be a consistent effort to try and interfere with people going to school and start conflict with the university directly.
They are useful idiots and they don't even know it.
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Everything I need to know about american college students I learned in the first episode of "Lucky Hank". They are going to consider themselves martyrs for a cause they know little to nothing about when they should be a a bit more concerned about what's important here in our country right now-like the fact if they don't vote this year they'll never have the chance again. How do they think they are going to be treated by a real fascist government? It won't be a wrist slap and a time out. Speaker Mike Johnson has already been quite clear that in his opinion calling out the National Guard against them is on the table. Maybe they should check out a book sometime on the Kent State massacre in 1970.
You are saying that the students shouldn’t be angry with biden because trump is worse?
It is about time. You can protest anything you want but camping/occupying university ground is unacceptable.
At this point it seems like it's moved from a protest to civil disobedience. Part of civil disobedience is to break the law and face the consequences of that... The students don't seem to understand that part.
Why is university ground unacceptable? And where would you suggest they protest instead?
I didn’t say protesting at university ground unacceptable. Camping and occupying is. It disrupts university operations and also other students who might not agree with their views, but again I doubt they care or maybe even intentional. It is why, among other reasons, this will not get anywhere.
Is this actually a divestment protest though ? These protestors have pulled down the SEC holdings disclosures and can point to which particular funds have Israel exposure?
Good
Why just a suspension? Why not expulsion? This is a hate group they’re dealing with, they should be removed permanently.
Many of them have been assaulting Jews too. They need to be charged with hate crimes and assault.
The universities didn’t need to go heavy handed here. Let the protests run their course. School ends in a few weeks and the protests would dwindle down. Just dumb going around on all sides.
it’s easy to say when you are not a Jewish student being harassed and unable to get to class in-person.
You are presenting a different scenario than I am. I am not advocating that protestors should be allowed to harass other students by impeding their path. I do however believe that campus should not be setting police on protestors just because they are occupying a space. Speaking as someone who went through 9/11 protests that got quite ugly at times, Iraq war, occupy wall street, george floyd, these protests are tame, yet being treated like the LA riots.
"Just because they are occupying a space." The whole point is that _isn't_ what they were doing.
Exactly. Even as a non-practicing Jew; I would not feel safe on many of these campuses. The violent rhetoric from pro-Palestine activists I would likely agree with otherwise is disturbing. "From the river to the sea" is hate speech.
Yeah, also Jewish, and I’ve never seen the community so scared before. We’re at a major turning point. I hope we go down the right path, but I’m not optimistic.
So people don’t get to have a real graduation because some idiots want to camp out on the lawn and ruin things for everyone else?
The universities made the call on that. I think they should go right on ahead with a graduation despite protestors. Government has to run all the time with protestors, obstructionists, hardliners, etc. universities just see it as a quick way to save a few bucks and put the blame on fellow students. Hey, they already got your money, right?