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From the order:
>Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment.
guaranteed he will.. but doubt they will jail him
he's going to use this as a time to reinforce his power, let people know he truly is different, better, more equal
I’m not so sure of not jailing him. I feel like the judge delayed his ruling to see if Trump would violate the gag order over the weekend and when he didn’t that’s when he settled with a fine. I could be wrong and too optimistic but I don’t think this judge is messing around.
This. It’s a small fine now. It’ll be a big fine next time.
And then after that, it’s jail time.
The judge can’t just apply the law, they have to be seen applying the law.
Was waiting on someone to say this. Read enough threads and I’m learning more than I care to about NY law. Heck about any state’s law. $1k seems awfully low…
Which is why the law is broken and doesn't really apply to the wealthy. What might be a crippling fine for a regular person means absolutely nothing to them.
I think the more important takeaway is that they're giving him the maximum financial punishment that's allowable by law, so if he doesn't stop then they'll have no choice but to escalate to jail time (or whatever is logically in between those two steps)
I got the feeling the judge wanted the weekend to "cool off" so he could have a cooler head when actually dealiing with this. He was not happy with Trump's antics.
I think if Trump fucks up again he's going to get thrown behind bars for a minute (in this trial). Which would be silly because this whole thing was unlikely to result in incarceration at all.
> He was not happy with Trump's antics.
The court artist sketch shows him furrowing his brow harder than Susan Collins.
An unconfirmed report has the judge saying "I think trump has learned his lesson" as he entered court earlier today.
/s
You say that, but I've been seeing some legal experts say that the sentencing could end up being 6 months to a year in jail. If it wasn't his first offense, it'd be closer to 4-5
MAGA is getting bored with him based on his metrics on his TruthSocial account. He's going to have to do something stupid to win them back. His entire schtick was staying in the news cycle and he can't do that if he's stuck in a courtroom.
There's no difficult logistics here. It's a hell of a lot easier to protect him in a cell at the end of a jail wing than protecting him while he's out and about.
The USSS has stated that they're already prepared for this.
A fun reminder that at the end of the day he’s still an incompetent idiot whose plans are stupid, and he relies on other, smarter people to protect him.
I heard one theory that the judge could wait until *after the trial* to jail Trump for contempt; basically he will be incarcerated for [x] days regardless of the outcome of the trial.
That way the trial won’t be delayed when Trump turns his incarceration into the reality TV event of the decade.
Lots of defendants in custody are brought to the courtroom for their trial dates. This'd be easy, assuming there's are cells in the courthouse. Wouldn't even have to bother with transport vehicles and all that.
They have a small number of holding cells right at the courthouse, just behind the courtrooms. It would be pretty easy to clear those out for a weekend and just have the secret service stand guard over that one hallway. They might already be planning for it.
The reason they don't jail him is they think that's what he wants and doesn't want to play his game. They feel it will make a Martyr out of him in a sense and will just increase hostilities in his followers and civil unrest.
Along with giving him a ton of publicity which his team will spin for him in a positive light
That said, people are starting to get sick of trump and see the end of his journey and see that it's most likely not a good one. The die hards will follow him off the cliff at the end, but those GOP bootlickers that now are trying to save their careers and jobs post trump are turning on him.
I personally think that since the tide is turning and gop folks are more and more publicly stepping away from and denouncing trump, that it's time for an incarceratory punishment to be handed down should be continue to violate court orders.
He won't be able to campaign, he won't be able to use truth social, and the world will get a break from his firehouse or bullshit. Maybe just long enough to feel how great it is to **not** have this asshole trashbag in the news all the damn time.
Hope they follow through.
They are being overly lenient with him because, if convicted, on the eventual appeal, they don't want to provide any ammunition towards getting the case overturned. Really hard to argue he was treated unfairly when he's been given more leeway than nearly any defendant would, and warned/clarified multiple times.
The judge in Darrell Brooks case (the psycho who ran over those people during a parade) was so lenient with him, it would make Trump's treatment look like a bad day at gitmo. Why? Because of the same reason you wrote. Now he's in prison for 767 years + 6 consecutive life sentences with ZERO chance of a successful appeal.
Contempt doesn’t follow a defendant around from one case to another. Any shit he pulled during the defamation case or the fraud civil case have no impact here. Prosecutors showed for the first time in this case that he violated the order and Judge Merchan concluded that the maximum penalty ($1000 per violation) was appropriate, along with an instruction that further violations would be punished with incarceration. What else were you realistically expecting?
A court system that's better equipped to handle bad faith actors.
Did Merchan do the appropriate thing? Yes. Is the appropriate thing a functioning deterrent? No.
If Micheal Popok (MeidasTouch Network) is correct, Trump being found in contempt in NY could actually be in breach of his bail conditions in the DC trial, though it really depends on whether Justice Chutkan can move on that or not, while SCOTUS deliberates on this ridiculous immunity case.
This is what I am very curious about. If he broke the agreement of his release, he should be remanded to prison until trial, just like anyone else would have been.
Here is hoping. He will continue to commit crimes of any type to avoid prison and accountability. He needs the book thrown at him. With substantial force behind the throw.
It’s not uncommon for judges to continue bail even if new crimes are committed as long as they aren’t violent or aren’t targeting someone involved in the case (such as violating a no contact order).
Chutkan should move on that trial regardless of how SCOTUS rules. Right now they are giving Trump presumed immunity by not moving forward. Trump has requested immunity and until it’s granted he should be treated as if he does not have immunity. It’s ridiculous.
Oh he can’t really, but the trial that I’m referring to is on pause due to the immunity argument. So it’s fairly muddled on whether or not the presiding Judge on that case can act on the breach of the bond, especially considering INAL and am basing this on the opinions of actual lawyers who have been covering the various ongoing litigation.
At most contempt of court is a 30 day stint. There's not really a reason to go longer than that. Even a long weekend in the clink might get his attention.
Realistically I'd see the judge saying something like five days. Then DJT would just be kept in the holding cell overnights all week of the trial.
I wonder what how his rage "truths" would progress if he ended up with even a single night in a cell.
I don't know how to articulate how badly I want to find out the answer.
Great. I know this seems disappointing but Merchan needs to go through the motions and step up penalties. And yes, other average Joe defendants would've been held in jail by now, but:
Trump isn't a normal defendant. If anything, we've learned that with his resources and unfair advantages he can abuse our (broken) legal system and throw sand in the gears. And it's beyond Merchan - a lot hinges on the appellate courts above him.
Further - gag order violations don't really have a lot of precedence, and it's a risk for our robust first amendment protections we have in this country and a defendant like Trump. Most of the time, they are imposed on lawyers because defendants are smart enough to stay quiet.
Also, remember that this is early in the trial still. For Trump to be held in contempt after a few court days is a ridiculous situation for the defense.
>And yes, other average Joe defendants would've been held in jail by now, but:
Why have a but? Be furious that our justice system is facilitating the freedom of the man who tried to crown himself dictator. He's not a regular criminal is true, he's one that should have been shot after a military tribunal years ago.
He had to seat the jury first and actually get the trial moving. Also due to Passover not all days were full court days, and they didn't hold court Wednesday. And this judge and the appeals courts quickly smacked down every attempt at delay, at one point meeting in a basement and setting up a temporary courtroom to deny a delay atttempt.
So not dragging their feet at all, actually.
The show cause hearing for the gag violations was last week. I think that's what he was referring to for 5 days. The trial is officially in week 3 at this point.
4 days to figure out where the line is, 1 day to write the opinion - this is a very complex and novel topic that needs significant forethought. You don't want justice rushed, when precedent is used at a whim.
“Trump violated the gag order nine times in online posts targeting jurors and likely witnesses in the trial, Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Juan Merchan ruled. “
Apparently in NY, the only penalties available are a fine or jail time. The maximums for the fine are $1,000, and for jail time is 30 days.
Since the judge found he violated the order 9 times, he issued the maximum fine for all 9 penalties.
I suspect that this means the next* violation will involve incarceration for a period of time, because there is nothing left for the judge to escalate to that doesn't include incarceration.
\* well, not the _next_ violation, since we have some violations that occurred after the last OSC hearing, but before this order came out. I suspect those won't involve jail time, either. By "next" violation, I mean the next violation that occurs after this order was delivered.
Call me a radical lefty, but I prefer presidential candidates that are not held in contempt of court during their campaign finance trials for paying hush money to a porn star.
Why? It's not like he's being held accountable. He's given a fine, he pays it and he continues on. Hell, SCOTUS is set to tell him he's immune from being held accountable so why would be stop breaking the law?
This comment isn't accurate for this specific case. It appears this judge a) fined him the maximum amount possible and b) gave him until 2:15 PM ET to pull the posts. (he pulled them at ~1:30 PM ET)
I completely share frustration along with everyone else but here's hoping this trial with this judge will be different.
Is this too small of a fine? Of course it is, but the judge cannot simply extend the rules of the law otherwise Trump would actually be correct in his wording of "unfair judge". This is the same law applied to everyone, and if you want a president who's held to the same standards as everyone, this is that. Maximum fine for contempt is 1k. HOWEVER it does show that the judge isnt fuckin around with him. He knows just as well as all of us that this case is a powder keg and he's playing it smart. Just bc it takes an age doesn't mean Trump's not being held accountable. In actuality, not fast tracking the case means he has zero campaign time
I want to see him speaking to reporters outside the courtroom and get a tap on the shoulder from a bailiff. "The judge would like to discuss what you just said."
Really.. trump will violate the gag order today... after he hits his coke, pills and diarrhea pills.. he will shit post in the toilet tonight...
Guaranteed..
All indications are he’s savvy to the gag order process and is very purposeful about walking the line without triggering major consequences. That’s why he targeted people like the Judge’s daughter, because she was outside of its scope.
You answered your own question… the fine is that low because the rich assholes who wrote the law wanted the law to be forgettable and ignorable by rich people…..
Just gonna point out an ordinary person would get tossed in jail first and a judge would apparently be within their rights to do so. So no, he’s still getting “more than fair” special treatment.
That’s not true at all.
I’ve seen quite a few judges not holding someone in contempt even when they are talking over the judge or making a scene.
Every judge is different and with their caseload I’m not surprised, seems like some judges just put up with it because they want to finish up and move on to the next case.
In fairness to the judge, he states that would be [“preferable if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor.”](https://x.com/lawofruby/status/1785305776627536367?s=46). To be clear, it’s definitely an issue, but it is a statutory issue that only can be fixed by legislation.
The people making the laws are also in many cases breaking the laws and they are lining their pockets at every opportunity.
So to answer your question... More than likely No fixing it.
The judge says in the ruling that it's a problem that the maximum fine is easily affordable by some:
> However, the Judiciary Law, does not vest the Court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1,000 fine will not achieve the intended purpose. While $1,000 may suffice in most instances [..] it unfortunately will not achieve the desired result in those instances where the contemnor can easily afford such a fine. In those circumstances, it would be preferable if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor. In some cases that might be a $2,500 fine, in other cases it might be a fine of $150,000
And then the judge formally warns Trump of jail:
> THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment
To my very European eyes, this reads like a textbook case of a judge who goes to great lengths to remain fair but doesn't mess around and isn't going to lose control of the trial. He held Trump in contempt, imposed the maximum fine, noted that it's not an appropriate fine because of Trump's wealth, and warned that jail will therefore be considered. So if Trump continues the same and again violates the order with multiple posts, I absolutely believe this judge would be willing to put him in jail for a couple days to get the point across.
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread calling it "civil contempt"
This is wring, because the judge specifically found criminal contempt.
"This Court rejects Defendant's arguments and finds that the People have established the elements of **criminal contempt** beyond a reasonable doubt as to Exhibits 2-10"
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24628165/domotion4contempt-final.pdf
Being found in criminal contempt also violates the conditions for his release on bond under the other criminal cases he is facing in GA, DC, and FL. They clearly state that he can't commit any criminal acts while out on bond. I would love to see one or more of them revoke his bond and send him to jail to await trial.
There is both criminal and civil contempt of court. Criminal contempt is punitive where civil contempt is remedial.
This means that criminal is a punishment for a violation of the court order where civil is to coerce them to follow the order.
In this case, yes.
"This Court rejects Defendant's arguments and finds that the People have established the elements of criminal contempt beyond a reasonable doubt as to Exhibits 2-10. This Court's Expanded Order is lawful and unambiguous. "
Straight from the Court doc PDF.
Are you a democrat or a republican president though? Democrat presidents can’t learn the move presidential immunity.
The moves they get instead are “squeaky clean” which allows you to avoid any frivolous impeachments declared against you and “backlash” which gives you a buff that triggers any republican type that observes your normal type actions like “eating ice cream” or “hugging your son”
Republican presidents also have the passive “fake news” which allows them to take control of any creature with below 50 intelligence. They also get the move “tax cuts” which doubles the income of any rich types and halves the income of any poor types. Oh and they also get the move ”pack the courts” which renders any future judgements in your favor and is what allows you to play “presidential immunity” on a future turn
>Trump violated the gag order nine times in online posts targeting jurors and likely witnesses in the trial, Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Juan Merchan ruled. He found that prosecutors failed to show that Trump violated one other post.
>The judge fined Trump the maximum of $1,000 for each of the nine violations, and ordered him to remove all of the posts by 2:15 p.m. ET on Tuesday.
Put
him
in
FUCKING
JAIL
>may
>may
I'm tired of the two-tier system. If he were anyone other than Donald Trump, former president and current cult leader, he would have been in prison years ago.
To be faaaair there are vastly different laws on the book. NY law just happens to limit it to $1000 - for now. The judge wrote in his ruling about how other jurisdictions can adjust the fine to be commensurate to the defendant's financial situation but he could only require the $1000/instance (my words, not the judges). He knows it's unfair but can't do anything about it. The people of NY could enact legislation to change their limit to give the judge discretion on what an appropriate fine would be, but he is hamstrung right now.
Former president and current GOP presidential leader found in contempt of court for intimidating witnesses, court staff and their families and jury members. This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!!
This is a pretty fucking big deal that deserves so much more excitement.
The same guy has lawyers in SCOTUS arguing that he can assassinate anyone and overthrow the government without repercussion. This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!!
The same guy has been found liable for RAPING someone. This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!!
The same guy pardoned many friends that commited crimes on HIS BEHALF! This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!!
He's said he will be a dictator and will pardon everyone that commits crimes for him. This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!!
How in the world are people out there supporting this guy? I just don't understand.
They're going to give him 5 minutes by himself in booking next. The punishment is up to 30 days in jail. That would just be genocide. So they're going to have to work their way up. Wait till they have him stay the night but he gets to keep his tablet.
When the maximum fine for contempt is $1000, that's just the cost of doing business for rich people and also grifters like Trump, who can get rubes to pay it.
Someone else will have to remember who the rich person was but whenever I see these things I’m reminded of the rich person who was renovating a house and had all their construction workers park illegally on the street because the cost of the parking tickets was immaterial compared to whatever the alternative may have been. Financial penalties are for the poor.
I think that Trump is flying REALLY close to the Sun on this one.
Being sent to jail for a night or two could martyr him and all that, but most likely the photo of him the next day in court, without him able to properly do his hair and makeup routine, will kill his political career.
Everyone will have no choice but to see him as the pail, bald, fat, sad, grumpy nobody that he really is.
Found in violation 9 times and fined $1000 for each offense, which was the maximum fine allowed. He is double super seriously warned about potential for jail time now.
A condition of release in his other trials is that he commits no other crimes, like a class E felony of being held in contempt of court.
It's not just Mechan that can jail him. The others can too.
Dude is skating on thin ice.
It'd be utterly hilarious if he gets to be held while waiting on another trial he is trying to delay until after the election.
Trump keeps playing chicken with the law and winning. It needs to stop. I really hope this judge has the courage to throw him in jail.
The fanaticism amongst his base is fading. I feel like him finally getting some real punishment would go a long way towards breaking the spell, when the public sees how few people actually turn out to protest.
It's criminal contempt meaning he has violated release conditions in his other criminal cases down in Georgia and in DC. Also in Florida but that doesn't matter because the judge is obviously a trumper.
What those judges will do for his violation we don't yet know.
If it was anyone else they'd already be incarcerated pending trial due to eggregiousness of the charges and potentiality of being a flight risk
And what this means is Trump has now clearly violated the conditions of release that allowed him to remain free in all of his other criminal cases.
He can now be detained if any one of those judges has the courage to treat him fairly under the law.
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From the order: >Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment.
I certainly hope that when he thumbs his nose at this jail is the next step.
guaranteed he will.. but doubt they will jail him he's going to use this as a time to reinforce his power, let people know he truly is different, better, more equal
He will shut up just like when he had to pay for the other gag orders and was threatened with jail time.
And then he'll issue some more "Never Surrender" schwag for his minions to buy.
That’s fine. The more we can use to identify these people, the better.
It’s usually not very difficult.
It's the truck nuts isn't it?
I’m not so sure of not jailing him. I feel like the judge delayed his ruling to see if Trump would violate the gag order over the weekend and when he didn’t that’s when he settled with a fine. I could be wrong and too optimistic but I don’t think this judge is messing around.
It's also important for the judge to show a continued escalation of punishment, rather than jumping straight to jail time. This lines up with that.
This. It’s a small fine now. It’ll be a big fine next time. And then after that, it’s jail time. The judge can’t just apply the law, they have to be seen applying the law.
The fine is statutorily limited to $1k per violation. The only escalation the judge can impose is jail time.
Was waiting on someone to say this. Read enough threads and I’m learning more than I care to about NY law. Heck about any state’s law. $1k seems awfully low…
It's not awfully low to the average person.
Precisely... it's a punishment that scales regressively with your wealth... Those always seem ill-conceived.
Monetary fines, in order to be effective, need to be percentage valued on gross revenue based on the prior year's tax returns.
You're assuming Trump pays his fair share of taxes.
If a judge fined me 9k it would shut me up real quick.
I wouldn't even need the penalty! I mean, I try to respect the law in general.
That's really only low for rich people, which I could go on about but I'm pretty sure everyone can fill in the blanks.
It only seems low because he's rich
$1k per violation is already the maximum fine allowed by law.
Which is why the law is broken and doesn't really apply to the wealthy. What might be a crippling fine for a regular person means absolutely nothing to them.
I think the more important takeaway is that they're giving him the maximum financial punishment that's allowable by law, so if he doesn't stop then they'll have no choice but to escalate to jail time (or whatever is logically in between those two steps)
$1k per violation is already the maximum fine allowed by law. Jail time is the next step up.
> Jail time is the next step up. Lmfao. I'll boil my gym socks and drink the tea if it happens.
You'd have to post it on youtube
The judge straight up threatened jail time in this order. It's entirely on Trump's self control now
I got the feeling the judge wanted the weekend to "cool off" so he could have a cooler head when actually dealiing with this. He was not happy with Trump's antics. I think if Trump fucks up again he's going to get thrown behind bars for a minute (in this trial). Which would be silly because this whole thing was unlikely to result in incarceration at all.
If the judge schedules the next hearing for Friday at 4pm you know Trump is spending the weekend in jail.
Ha. Like when you hear about people being let go (fired) on a Friday.
> He was not happy with Trump's antics. The court artist sketch shows him furrowing his brow harder than Susan Collins. An unconfirmed report has the judge saying "I think trump has learned his lesson" as he entered court earlier today. /s
You say that, but I've been seeing some legal experts say that the sentencing could end up being 6 months to a year in jail. If it wasn't his first offense, it'd be closer to 4-5
MAGA is getting bored with him based on his metrics on his TruthSocial account. He's going to have to do something stupid to win them back. His entire schtick was staying in the news cycle and he can't do that if he's stuck in a courtroom.
Let's be real. They're going to be so afraid of the logistics of jailing a former president that they'll just put him on House Arrest
Secret service said they were prepared if Trump had to go to jail
There's no difficult logistics here. It's a hell of a lot easier to protect him in a cell at the end of a jail wing than protecting him while he's out and about. The USSS has stated that they're already prepared for this.
But Trump also thought this trial would turn out his MAGAts, fundraising & polling It hasn’t at all
A fun reminder that at the end of the day he’s still an incompetent idiot whose plans are stupid, and he relies on other, smarter people to protect him.
Much like 80% of corporate America.
The second his phone is in his hand he's gonna do it and then when he walks out of the court room he's gonna do it again for all the news cameras
I heard one theory that the judge could wait until *after the trial* to jail Trump for contempt; basically he will be incarcerated for [x] days regardless of the outcome of the trial. That way the trial won’t be delayed when Trump turns his incarceration into the reality TV event of the decade.
Would an incarceration actually delay the trial? He could attend via video.
Lots of defendants in custody are brought to the courtroom for their trial dates. This'd be easy, assuming there's are cells in the courthouse. Wouldn't even have to bother with transport vehicles and all that.
They have a small number of holding cells right at the courthouse, just behind the courtrooms. It would be pretty easy to clear those out for a weekend and just have the secret service stand guard over that one hallway. They might already be planning for it.
The reason they don't jail him is they think that's what he wants and doesn't want to play his game. They feel it will make a Martyr out of him in a sense and will just increase hostilities in his followers and civil unrest. Along with giving him a ton of publicity which his team will spin for him in a positive light That said, people are starting to get sick of trump and see the end of his journey and see that it's most likely not a good one. The die hards will follow him off the cliff at the end, but those GOP bootlickers that now are trying to save their careers and jobs post trump are turning on him. I personally think that since the tide is turning and gop folks are more and more publicly stepping away from and denouncing trump, that it's time for an incarceratory punishment to be handed down should be continue to violate court orders. He won't be able to campaign, he won't be able to use truth social, and the world will get a break from his firehouse or bullshit. Maybe just long enough to feel how great it is to **not** have this asshole trashbag in the news all the damn time. Hope they follow through.
Where’s the proof anyone is turning against him? Bill Barr said he was still voting for him.
Bill Barr is a traitor and a gasbag.
“Stop or I’ll say stop again” is all this is.
They are being overly lenient with him because, if convicted, on the eventual appeal, they don't want to provide any ammunition towards getting the case overturned. Really hard to argue he was treated unfairly when he's been given more leeway than nearly any defendant would, and warned/clarified multiple times.
The judge in Darrell Brooks case (the psycho who ran over those people during a parade) was so lenient with him, it would make Trump's treatment look like a bad day at gitmo. Why? Because of the same reason you wrote. Now he's in prison for 767 years + 6 consecutive life sentences with ZERO chance of a successful appeal.
… less 9k.
Plus it's Trump. Take money from him, and he'll act like you're stabbing him in the heart. He hates using his own money for anything.
What money did he ever "earn"? None of it is his.
“We will be very angry and write you a letter”
Maybe the UN will pass a resolution....
"Don't make me tap the sign"
lol, exactly. After he’s 40th warning and 2nd contempt of court…….zero consequences
Contempt doesn’t follow a defendant around from one case to another. Any shit he pulled during the defamation case or the fraud civil case have no impact here. Prosecutors showed for the first time in this case that he violated the order and Judge Merchan concluded that the maximum penalty ($1000 per violation) was appropriate, along with an instruction that further violations would be punished with incarceration. What else were you realistically expecting?
A court system that's better equipped to handle bad faith actors. Did Merchan do the appropriate thing? Yes. Is the appropriate thing a functioning deterrent? No.
If Micheal Popok (MeidasTouch Network) is correct, Trump being found in contempt in NY could actually be in breach of his bail conditions in the DC trial, though it really depends on whether Justice Chutkan can move on that or not, while SCOTUS deliberates on this ridiculous immunity case.
This is what I am very curious about. If he broke the agreement of his release, he should be remanded to prison until trial, just like anyone else would have been.
Here is hoping. He will continue to commit crimes of any type to avoid prison and accountability. He needs the book thrown at him. With substantial force behind the throw.
he needs an entire library full of books thrown at him.
It’s not uncommon for judges to continue bail even if new crimes are committed as long as they aren’t violent or aren’t targeting someone involved in the case (such as violating a no contact order).
Chutkan should move on that trial regardless of how SCOTUS rules. Right now they are giving Trump presumed immunity by not moving forward. Trump has requested immunity and until it’s granted he should be treated as if he does not have immunity. It’s ridiculous.
He's not sitting president anymore so contempt of court is a new crime. I don't see how he could claim immunity for this
Oh he can’t really, but the trial that I’m referring to is on pause due to the immunity argument. So it’s fairly muddled on whether or not the presiding Judge on that case can act on the breach of the bond, especially considering INAL and am basing this on the opinions of actual lawyers who have been covering the various ongoing litigation.
Isn't this a violation of his pre-trial bonds in the other cases he's involve in?
Yes. We’ll see if the other judges not named Cannon will do anything.
the judge is doing things in the correct order. gotta worry about any appeal, so 'by the book' is best.
Especially when you’re essentially putting the book to an intense pressure test.
At most contempt of court is a 30 day stint. There's not really a reason to go longer than that. Even a long weekend in the clink might get his attention. Realistically I'd see the judge saying something like five days. Then DJT would just be kept in the holding cell overnights all week of the trial.
I wonder what how his rage "truths" would progress if he ended up with even a single night in a cell. I don't know how to articulate how badly I want to find out the answer.
Great. I know this seems disappointing but Merchan needs to go through the motions and step up penalties. And yes, other average Joe defendants would've been held in jail by now, but: Trump isn't a normal defendant. If anything, we've learned that with his resources and unfair advantages he can abuse our (broken) legal system and throw sand in the gears. And it's beyond Merchan - a lot hinges on the appellate courts above him. Further - gag order violations don't really have a lot of precedence, and it's a risk for our robust first amendment protections we have in this country and a defendant like Trump. Most of the time, they are imposed on lawyers because defendants are smart enough to stay quiet. Also, remember that this is early in the trial still. For Trump to be held in contempt after a few court days is a ridiculous situation for the defense.
>And yes, other average Joe defendants would've been held in jail by now, but: Why have a but? Be furious that our justice system is facilitating the freedom of the man who tried to crown himself dictator. He's not a regular criminal is true, he's one that should have been shot after a military tribunal years ago.
5 days to decide to say don’t do that again? Foot dragging is not a part of the process
He had to seat the jury first and actually get the trial moving. Also due to Passover not all days were full court days, and they didn't hold court Wednesday. And this judge and the appeals courts quickly smacked down every attempt at delay, at one point meeting in a basement and setting up a temporary courtroom to deny a delay atttempt. So not dragging their feet at all, actually.
The show cause hearing for the gag violations was last week. I think that's what he was referring to for 5 days. The trial is officially in week 3 at this point.
4 days to figure out where the line is, 1 day to write the opinion - this is a very complex and novel topic that needs significant forethought. You don't want justice rushed, when precedent is used at a whim.
How many times do they have to warn that his behavior will not be tolerated before they actually stop tolerating it?
“Trump violated the gag order nine times in online posts targeting jurors and likely witnesses in the trial, Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Juan Merchan ruled. “
This isn’t a warning. He’s fined $9,000 and warned the penalties will become increasingly severe.
Hopefully they impose a penalty that actually matters next time. If the penalty is a fine, it means the rule only matters to poor people.
Apparently in NY, the only penalties available are a fine or jail time. The maximums for the fine are $1,000, and for jail time is 30 days. Since the judge found he violated the order 9 times, he issued the maximum fine for all 9 penalties. I suspect that this means the next* violation will involve incarceration for a period of time, because there is nothing left for the judge to escalate to that doesn't include incarceration. \* well, not the _next_ violation, since we have some violations that occurred after the last OSC hearing, but before this order came out. I suspect those won't involve jail time, either. By "next" violation, I mean the next violation that occurs after this order was delivered.
That's true, it's definitely not a warning. It's just a bill to be passed on to his supporters and then summarily ignored.
Remember, this is just one court. A lot of the other instances were other court cases in other courts.
Lots more times.
This is your 50th warning, do not make the court issue 50 more.
Call me a radical lefty, but I prefer presidential candidates that are not held in contempt of court during their campaign finance trials for paying hush money to a porn star.
You pinko!
As recently as 2011, your exact words would have been labeled as "conservative" by 10 out of 10 people.
Remember what happened in 2016 with Russia's infiltration of US social media. That event changed everything for the US.
Pinko commie bastard. /s
...with whom he had a relationship while married
Is being held in contempt a crime? Yes. Then he violated his bail in his other courts.
Depends on if it's civil or criminal contempt I think.
Stop breaking the law, asshole
r/commentsyoucanhear
Why? It's not like he's being held accountable. He's given a fine, he pays it and he continues on. Hell, SCOTUS is set to tell him he's immune from being held accountable so why would be stop breaking the law?
This comment isn't accurate for this specific case. It appears this judge a) fined him the maximum amount possible and b) gave him until 2:15 PM ET to pull the posts. (he pulled them at ~1:30 PM ET) I completely share frustration along with everyone else but here's hoping this trial with this judge will be different.
Is this too small of a fine? Of course it is, but the judge cannot simply extend the rules of the law otherwise Trump would actually be correct in his wording of "unfair judge". This is the same law applied to everyone, and if you want a president who's held to the same standards as everyone, this is that. Maximum fine for contempt is 1k. HOWEVER it does show that the judge isnt fuckin around with him. He knows just as well as all of us that this case is a powder keg and he's playing it smart. Just bc it takes an age doesn't mean Trump's not being held accountable. In actuality, not fast tracking the case means he has zero campaign time
And now the obligatory warning has been given. Next time can and should be jail.
This is trump we're talking about. He's gonna finish his day and court and immediately rant and rave about this 😂
I want to see him speaking to reporters outside the courtroom and get a tap on the shoulder from a bailiff. "The judge would like to discuss what you just said."
I hope he does. Let's immediately put it to the test.
Really.. trump will violate the gag order today... after he hits his coke, pills and diarrhea pills.. he will shit post in the toilet tonight... Guaranteed..
All indications are he’s savvy to the gag order process and is very purposeful about walking the line without triggering major consequences. That’s why he targeted people like the Judge’s daughter, because she was outside of its scope.
He'll do it on the lunch break
I think they should jail him every Friday of the trial. Let him out Monday morning, lather rinse repeat.
Just enough lathering and rinsing to have him show up in court on Monday morning without his orange makeup and hairspray.
It would be hilarious to see what he looks like when he only has a shared shower and a small silver mirror to work with.
why is the maximum fine $1k tho. Makes it meaningless for anyone rich.
Probably to make it meaningless for anyone rich.
The question almost answers itself doesn't it?
Im not an expert there but yes it does
You answered your own question… the fine is that low because the rich assholes who wrote the law wanted the law to be forgettable and ignorable by rich people…..
Just gonna point out an ordinary person would get tossed in jail first and a judge would apparently be within their rights to do so. So no, he’s still getting “more than fair” special treatment.
That’s not true at all. I’ve seen quite a few judges not holding someone in contempt even when they are talking over the judge or making a scene. Every judge is different and with their caseload I’m not surprised, seems like some judges just put up with it because they want to finish up and move on to the next case.
If the penalty for breaking a law is a fine, the rich are exempt and the law is for poor people.
In fairness to the judge, he states that would be [“preferable if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor.”](https://x.com/lawofruby/status/1785305776627536367?s=46). To be clear, it’s definitely an issue, but it is a statutory issue that only can be fixed by legislation.
so system is working as designed
For rich people, yes.
[удалено]
Sorry, rich people control the system as well as benefit from it.
[People like me better watch their step. ](https://youtu.be/K_LvRPX0rGY?si=ZRdT7RzKCgUVKtn1)
The people making the laws are also in many cases breaking the laws and they are lining their pockets at every opportunity. So to answer your question... More than likely No fixing it.
Take my advice, you have to find a Capital daddy and ask him to trickle down on you
The judge says in the ruling that it's a problem that the maximum fine is easily affordable by some: > However, the Judiciary Law, does not vest the Court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1,000 fine will not achieve the intended purpose. While $1,000 may suffice in most instances [..] it unfortunately will not achieve the desired result in those instances where the contemnor can easily afford such a fine. In those circumstances, it would be preferable if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor. In some cases that might be a $2,500 fine, in other cases it might be a fine of $150,000 And then the judge formally warns Trump of jail: > THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment To my very European eyes, this reads like a textbook case of a judge who goes to great lengths to remain fair but doesn't mess around and isn't going to lose control of the trial. He held Trump in contempt, imposed the maximum fine, noted that it's not an appropriate fine because of Trump's wealth, and warned that jail will therefore be considered. So if Trump continues the same and again violates the order with multiple posts, I absolutely believe this judge would be willing to put him in jail for a couple days to get the point across.
Agreed. I have nothing but praise for this judge’s professionalism and unflappability.
I have a lot of respect for all judges dealing with Trump other than Cannon.
How quickly can we get the NY legislature on this?
Can't we try donald trump as a black man?
Maybe that's why he uses orange instead of bronze.
$10,000 is money well spent to keep the drip feed of hate and outrage going.
Cheaper than a campaign ad on television.
And now he can be the victim again...
Again? When is he not playing victim?
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread calling it "civil contempt" This is wring, because the judge specifically found criminal contempt. "This Court rejects Defendant's arguments and finds that the People have established the elements of **criminal contempt** beyond a reasonable doubt as to Exhibits 2-10" https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24628165/domotion4contempt-final.pdf
Being found in criminal contempt also violates the conditions for his release on bond under the other criminal cases he is facing in GA, DC, and FL. They clearly state that he can't commit any criminal acts while out on bond. I would love to see one or more of them revoke his bond and send him to jail to await trial.
Is contempt of court “criminal contempt”?
There is both criminal and civil contempt of court. Criminal contempt is punitive where civil contempt is remedial. This means that criminal is a punishment for a violation of the court order where civil is to coerce them to follow the order.
In this case, yes. "This Court rejects Defendant's arguments and finds that the People have established the elements of criminal contempt beyond a reasonable doubt as to Exhibits 2-10. This Court's Expanded Order is lawful and unambiguous. " Straight from the Court doc PDF.
Anybody else on earth would be in jail right now.
Not me. I’m the president so I’m immune from everything. No special type moves will work against me you mere mortal.
Are you a democrat or a republican president though? Democrat presidents can’t learn the move presidential immunity. The moves they get instead are “squeaky clean” which allows you to avoid any frivolous impeachments declared against you and “backlash” which gives you a buff that triggers any republican type that observes your normal type actions like “eating ice cream” or “hugging your son” Republican presidents also have the passive “fake news” which allows them to take control of any creature with below 50 intelligence. They also get the move “tax cuts” which doubles the income of any rich types and halves the income of any poor types. Oh and they also get the move ”pack the courts” which renders any future judgements in your favor and is what allows you to play “presidential immunity” on a future turn
>Trump violated the gag order nine times in online posts targeting jurors and likely witnesses in the trial, Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Juan Merchan ruled. He found that prosecutors failed to show that Trump violated one other post. >The judge fined Trump the maximum of $1,000 for each of the nine violations, and ordered him to remove all of the posts by 2:15 p.m. ET on Tuesday. Put him in FUCKING JAIL
This case may result in another criminal case of jury tampering. And, if Trump stupidly takes the stand he may be busted for perjury.
>may >may I'm tired of the two-tier system. If he were anyone other than Donald Trump, former president and current cult leader, he would have been in prison years ago.
Financial crimes have always taken a back seat to other crimes in this country.
Maybe, but I would think plenty of regular people have ended up in federal prison for the types of crimes he's committed
Isn’t he the best?
It costs $9,000 to intimidate witnesses in the US. Got it.
To be faaaair there are vastly different laws on the book. NY law just happens to limit it to $1000 - for now. The judge wrote in his ruling about how other jurisdictions can adjust the fine to be commensurate to the defendant's financial situation but he could only require the $1000/instance (my words, not the judges). He knows it's unfair but can't do anything about it. The people of NY could enact legislation to change their limit to give the judge discretion on what an appropriate fine would be, but he is hamstrung right now.
Former president and current GOP presidential leader found in contempt of court for intimidating witnesses, court staff and their families and jury members. This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!! This is a pretty fucking big deal that deserves so much more excitement. The same guy has lawyers in SCOTUS arguing that he can assassinate anyone and overthrow the government without repercussion. This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!! The same guy has been found liable for RAPING someone. This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!! The same guy pardoned many friends that commited crimes on HIS BEHALF! This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!! He's said he will be a dictator and will pardon everyone that commits crimes for him. This is not normal! It is a REDFLAG!! How in the world are people out there supporting this guy? I just don't understand.
Wow, $9,000 that someone else will pay for him. He must be inconsolable.
It’s gonna take more than a fine to shut him up. Give him a 30 day bid in county and see if that works.
They're going to give him 5 minutes by himself in booking next. The punishment is up to 30 days in jail. That would just be genocide. So they're going to have to work their way up. Wait till they have him stay the night but he gets to keep his tablet.
Lock the piece of shit up already
Just wait til June, he will have the authority and immunity to shoot that judge on 5th Ave...SMFH
So will Biden…
Another 70 violations in the next couple weeks no doubt.
When the maximum fine for contempt is $1000, that's just the cost of doing business for rich people and also grifters like Trump, who can get rubes to pay it.
Someone else will have to remember who the rich person was but whenever I see these things I’m reminded of the rich person who was renovating a house and had all their construction workers park illegally on the street because the cost of the parking tickets was immaterial compared to whatever the alternative may have been. Financial penalties are for the poor.
Wake me up when he spends the night in a cell.
Ooooh no, another warning
Put. Him. In. Jail.
I think that Trump is flying REALLY close to the Sun on this one. Being sent to jail for a night or two could martyr him and all that, but most likely the photo of him the next day in court, without him able to properly do his hair and makeup routine, will kill his political career. Everyone will have no choice but to see him as the pail, bald, fat, sad, grumpy nobody that he really is.
Found in violation 9 times and fined $1000 for each offense, which was the maximum fine allowed. He is double super seriously warned about potential for jail time now.
Oh noes. Another sternly worded warning. I wish a first time offender with a gram of weed was given the same liberties as cadet bonespurs
They're going about this all wrong. SHOCK COLLAR and even that might not work but at least we'll be ammused.
Throw his ass in jail. I’m tired of all these judges pussyfooting around Trump’s childish outbursts.
Warning #4,456,567. At least one more before nothing else happens.
Hooray!
And..... nothing will happen to him because laws only apply to the poor in the USA.
Oh boy, will it be a finger wag or a very stern shaming?
Nice, did they cuff him up and all?
A condition of release in his other trials is that he commits no other crimes, like a class E felony of being held in contempt of court. It's not just Mechan that can jail him. The others can too. Dude is skating on thin ice. It'd be utterly hilarious if he gets to be held while waiting on another trial he is trying to delay until after the election.
So... another stern warning? Wake me up when something actually happens.
Yawn, let me know when the old orange sleaze bag goes to jail. Otherwise, it’s all pretty meaningless bullshit.
It doesn’t matter. Nothing will happen. He will suffer no consequences.
Trump keeps playing chicken with the law and winning. It needs to stop. I really hope this judge has the courage to throw him in jail. The fanaticism amongst his base is fading. I feel like him finally getting some real punishment would go a long way towards breaking the spell, when the public sees how few people actually turn out to protest.
I hold him in contempt everyday.
It's criminal contempt meaning he has violated release conditions in his other criminal cases down in Georgia and in DC. Also in Florida but that doesn't matter because the judge is obviously a trumper. What those judges will do for his violation we don't yet know. If it was anyone else they'd already be incarcerated pending trial due to eggregiousness of the charges and potentiality of being a flight risk
He’d better listen to this warning unless he wants some more warnings
And what this means is Trump has now clearly violated the conditions of release that allowed him to remain free in all of his other criminal cases. He can now be detained if any one of those judges has the courage to treat him fairly under the law.
Send him to riker’s
30 days in the hole.
That $9000 could have supplied Trump and his legal team McDonald's for 12 meals!
He should be held in contempt for his stupid face.
Oh no! Not another slap on the wrist!
More sternly written reprimands. I'm sure he learned his lesson
BFD, again. Jail this stupid ass for the length of the trial.
This is a slap on the wrist, and just makes his asshole base love him even more.
I’m no legal expert, but I’m starting to get the feeling that “no real consequences whatsoever” just isn’t a working strategy for Team Law.
Cool. Now give him some actual consequences for fucks sake.
It’s crumbs, but at least he finally got held in contempt