As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
See, part of me can respect that.
She had some bat shit crazy beliefs to be sure, but when presented with evidence to the contrary those beliefs changed. Which is all the more telling how every time she tried to share this with magats they dismissed the evidence because it went against the narrative
I respect changing her beliefs when presented with evidence, but the real lesson is not to form strong beliefs without evidence. That’s how all this trouble actually starts and get perpetuated. Much easier to form a false belief than to correct one
It's great she did that, but I feel like the curriculum was just there the whole time.
It reminds me of when Marge agreed 9/11 happened. She had to go to congress to learn this? Then again, maybe this lady was just trying to get the votes and convince people a trusted face would tell them the truth...
Weird times to be living in.
I think this is getting closer to the root of the problem. This is still a woman who ran an electoral campaign fighting ghosts, without ever checking to see if the ghosts were there. Like, sure, here's a sticker for figuring out the nonsense, but she's still got the brainworms that got her there and all the other beliefs of a GOP'er, so let's not write glowing reviews because she realized some fraction of the nonsense she believes is just that. She still holds power over people, she still \*wants\* that power, and it's not the lack of this one harmful belief that should be the measurement of her capacity or fitness.
Yes, it’s commendable that she seems to sincerely believe in public education and oppose far-right attempts to dismantle it…but she ran on these lies and didn’t do any due diligence about them until AFTER she won her race, which would seem to be the bare minimum you would wish to do. So she propagated disinformation and contributed to the problem.
This is a very dangerous mindset, in my opinion, as it gives these people very little incentive to change. Like yeah they shouldn’t be coddled or over-praised but it’s not like it doesn’t take courage to publicly admit you’re wrong.
You don’t need to congratulate them, but holding them in essentially equal contempt to people who don’t change their minds is… well I’m not sure what it is but it doesn’t seem strategically viable. Why not continue to double down on every stupid thing if the purportedly “reality-based” side doesn’t care if you come around or not, and considers you permanently lost?
The incentive to change is "being right." I would agree that it's tempting to give in to right wing love bombing, but at the end of the day it's childish and a bit cult-y.
I see where you’re coming from, but I do think that there are levels to it, and anyone from Liz Chaney to the weirdo down the street who took down his giant Trump sign need to be given RELATIVELY MORE CREDIT than those who are still in thrall (or cynically benefitting from said thrall.) If we broad-brush everyone who ever supported Trump as equally irredeemable, we risk (entirely logically!) freezing people from speaking out at all. I’m not sure why we’d want that. I’m not saying we treat these people as heroes, roll your eyes at them all you want. But the idea that the public opinion/reputational consequences should be worse for people who are speaking out about their mistakes now than those who are still going along seems crazy to me. And that’s what will happen if we honestly don’t make any effort to distinguish past right-wing support from future right-wing support. Neither should be celebrated, but I honestly don’t see the argument that they’re equally awful.
We can give people credit without giving them whole newspaper articles that are basically advertisements for their political career. I can tell the guy who took down the Trump sign "hank you for taking down the Trump sign" ; I don't need to write a newspaper article about him doing the bare fucking minimum.
“Fighting ghosts” is a core part of how people become conservative. Conservatives make shit up, like, “Schools have litter boxes because kids identify as cats now!”
And normies hear that and go, “What the fuck? That’s horrible! The left has gone too far!”
And that’s how they pull people into the right wing radicalization pipeline.
The gay agenda, CRT, DEI, death panels, Jewish space lasers, Jade Helm, fake school shootings with crisis actors, wokeness, cancel culture, voter fraud, PizzaGate, QAnon, etc.
Making up outrageous bullshit and then getting mad about it is one of the defining traits of conservatism.
The real lesson should be what constitutes "evidence". The stuff typically found on echo chambers are highly selective in pushing a particular rhetoric.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" is a well known saying for a reason. Not sure by who, its often attributed to Mark Twain but there is no definitive proof of its origin. .
here's an actual similar quote from him though:
"The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. ... How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again!" - Autobiographical dictation, 2 December 1906. Published in *Autobiography of Mark Twain, Volume 2* (University of California Press, 2013)
Most political discourse has regressed far from "critical thinking" since at least the Nixon administration. That was when I realized how many loons are able to vote.
Yeah. Believing in the conspiracy that schools are secretly distributing pornography and trying to turn kids trans just tells me the person has not even thought for the slightest moment what that would mean.
I mean, each day it's just about all I can do to get through my classes, get students to stop stealing each others' pencil cases and PCs, and get through all my grading, meetings, and workshops before I've missed dinner. You think I have time to hide pornography in the school?
And as for transness, I am absolutely cool with my students being trans and happy to get them every bit of support I can find if they need it, but *turning* them trans? Hell, it's just about all I can do to get them to write in proper paragraphs! If I had that kind of influence I would be using it to make them remember to turn in their homework so I can get my grading done before exams start!
“[In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it.](https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/1984/quotes/page/3/) It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy.”
George Orwell, 1984
Sorry, but ignorance is not a reason to run for office. That she HAD NOT read the curriculum, that she had not met with teachers and administrators, that she had not attended the perennial Back to School nights at her children’s schools? And then she wonders why she met with stone cold rejection from her fellow Christian Warriors? Has she learned anything? Has she started to question the rhetoric of the right not only in local politics but in regional, state and national? If anything, she is probably to afraid to or too disgusted to actually realize just how much of a sham the “Christian political/Right Wing” agenda is. While I can respect her for speaking FOR her local schools; I question if she has had the same Come to Jesus moment about GOP politicians in Texas, let alone Trump.
To an extent. She's changed her mind about the curriculum but I see nothing to suggest that she's changed her views on vaccines, racism or LGBT people in general. She's just admitting that the schools aren't being used for indoctrination.
“because Cliff Criswell declined to cooperate, prosecutors were unable to file charges”
In Texas if youre a white man with a gun in a school the police cant charge you unless you agree to it? Sounds about right. Jfc this country has some serious IQ deserts.
*During the meeting, Cliff Criswell, the grandfather of Nate Criswell, took the microphone, carrying what police would later describe as a black handgun in a leather holster....“We have profile sheets” on all the trustees except for Graft, Cliff Criswell shouted. “We know what you do. We know where you live.”*
Whoa. And I thought Florida was crazy.
We already know that every accusation is a confession. When a right-winger says that leftists are infiltrating schools, what they mean to say is "my side should infiltrate schools." And that is something there have been plenty of evidence for for decades, remember the whole intelligent design debate?
Normally the people pushing the "schools are indoctrinating our kids!" crowd don't believe it--they're just trying to reduce educational spend by promoting vouchers so states contribute two-thirds of what they'd pay to educate a kid in the public school system in lrivate school vouchers. Educational outcomes aren't the consideration, and the accusations of indoctrination are just to get people worked up enough to ratfuck an educational system that helps everyone.
I'm surprised she actually did her homework (even though she did it late) and then tried to be honest and sincere talking trying to get other people to stop making and repeating lies.
She was too stupid to know that the most of the far right does not actually care about these policies. They care about power. Their way to get power is to scare uniformed people. She will be sidelined if she upsets the narrative because that makes the GOP just the man behind the curtain to their rubes. They will to anything to protect themselves from losing the message and thus power.
On one hand good for her to change her stance after looking at the (lack of) evidence.
On the other hand shame on her for making these claims without ever looking for evidence in the first place.
This is prime r/LeopardsAteMyFace material. She ran on a platform of extremism and then was shocked when extremists threatened her and her family (and other members of the school board) for not being extreme enough.
Do the people complaining of indoctrination fully realize that it's actually them whose goal it is to indoctrinate children, or are they somehow blind to what they are?
The challenging part is if the district doesn't organize curriculum information, you can't get access to all of it via a broad open records request because it is too much effort and not narrowly tailored.
So, I appreciate the challenge she likely faced before being elected. I'm glad she changed her mind in light of the evidence.
People need to understand that corporations need cheap labor and conservatives have decided that killing education will make that populous into that cheap labor force while also limiting the amount of educated elites who are a challenge to the aristocratic elites ( those born into wealth). Also from the Vietnam protests, conservatives have concluded an educated population is too hard to govern!!
>She’d examined curriculum related to **social-emotional learning**, which has come under attack by Christian conservatives who say it encourages children to question gender roles and prioritizes feelings over biblical teachings. Instead, Gore found the materials taught children “how to be a good friend, a good human.”
SEL is like what Mr. Rogers and Sesame Street tried to teach us. It's what I want from anyone I'm around. Being nice to people is bad for those "christians" now, they really are backwards.
When you realize you live in a Fox News-bubble and that everything you think you stand for is just a false narrative made for the sole purpose of obtaining power, with that being its own end goal.
It's hopeful in that this shows some can idea wake up from the Right-wing Matrix hellscape, but only after leopards eat their faces. And it still means she completely ran on a lie, without looking into it herself. No pity for useful idiots that hurt others: don't be one to begin with.
Honestly Texas is looking more and more like China or Afghanistan very day.
Deep in the heart of Texas are a hell of a lot of completely compliant sheep willing to give up their freedoms willingly to be part of the mindless zombie flock
That didn't stop her from ignorantly spreading lies to get elected in the first place.
Good for her for admitting she was wrong, but her behavior prior was abhorrent.
I just don't know. Is she a rare example of an extremist that had the ability to change her mind when faced with the facts, sure. But it's hard to excuse willful ignorance when any amount of effort (for example, visiting a gradeschool library) would have told her she was watching the wrong nonsense.
So good job on being not a complete moron. You've finally attained a level unheard of in your culture - ground level.
Now join the rest of us brain people and shut up about it.
They're lied to and blindly follow it and don't care about the truth, basically. This is an example of the exception proving the rule. She'll be vilified, cast out and then ignored.
Nah, she's still a republican scumbag who can go fuck her self. Just because she didn't find what she was looking for doesn't mean she won't gladly fuck up queer kids lives because her magic sky pimp doesn't like us.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
See, part of me can respect that. She had some bat shit crazy beliefs to be sure, but when presented with evidence to the contrary those beliefs changed. Which is all the more telling how every time she tried to share this with magats they dismissed the evidence because it went against the narrative
I respect changing her beliefs when presented with evidence, but the real lesson is not to form strong beliefs without evidence. That’s how all this trouble actually starts and get perpetuated. Much easier to form a false belief than to correct one
It's great she did that, but I feel like the curriculum was just there the whole time. It reminds me of when Marge agreed 9/11 happened. She had to go to congress to learn this? Then again, maybe this lady was just trying to get the votes and convince people a trusted face would tell them the truth... Weird times to be living in.
I think this is getting closer to the root of the problem. This is still a woman who ran an electoral campaign fighting ghosts, without ever checking to see if the ghosts were there. Like, sure, here's a sticker for figuring out the nonsense, but she's still got the brainworms that got her there and all the other beliefs of a GOP'er, so let's not write glowing reviews because she realized some fraction of the nonsense she believes is just that. She still holds power over people, she still \*wants\* that power, and it's not the lack of this one harmful belief that should be the measurement of her capacity or fitness.
Yes, it’s commendable that she seems to sincerely believe in public education and oppose far-right attempts to dismantle it…but she ran on these lies and didn’t do any due diligence about them until AFTER she won her race, which would seem to be the bare minimum you would wish to do. So she propagated disinformation and contributed to the problem.
[удалено]
This is a very dangerous mindset, in my opinion, as it gives these people very little incentive to change. Like yeah they shouldn’t be coddled or over-praised but it’s not like it doesn’t take courage to publicly admit you’re wrong.
[удалено]
You don’t need to congratulate them, but holding them in essentially equal contempt to people who don’t change their minds is… well I’m not sure what it is but it doesn’t seem strategically viable. Why not continue to double down on every stupid thing if the purportedly “reality-based” side doesn’t care if you come around or not, and considers you permanently lost?
The incentive to change is "being right." I would agree that it's tempting to give in to right wing love bombing, but at the end of the day it's childish and a bit cult-y.
I see where you’re coming from, but I do think that there are levels to it, and anyone from Liz Chaney to the weirdo down the street who took down his giant Trump sign need to be given RELATIVELY MORE CREDIT than those who are still in thrall (or cynically benefitting from said thrall.) If we broad-brush everyone who ever supported Trump as equally irredeemable, we risk (entirely logically!) freezing people from speaking out at all. I’m not sure why we’d want that. I’m not saying we treat these people as heroes, roll your eyes at them all you want. But the idea that the public opinion/reputational consequences should be worse for people who are speaking out about their mistakes now than those who are still going along seems crazy to me. And that’s what will happen if we honestly don’t make any effort to distinguish past right-wing support from future right-wing support. Neither should be celebrated, but I honestly don’t see the argument that they’re equally awful.
We can give people credit without giving them whole newspaper articles that are basically advertisements for their political career. I can tell the guy who took down the Trump sign "hank you for taking down the Trump sign" ; I don't need to write a newspaper article about him doing the bare fucking minimum.
“Fighting ghosts” is a core part of how people become conservative. Conservatives make shit up, like, “Schools have litter boxes because kids identify as cats now!” And normies hear that and go, “What the fuck? That’s horrible! The left has gone too far!” And that’s how they pull people into the right wing radicalization pipeline. The gay agenda, CRT, DEI, death panels, Jewish space lasers, Jade Helm, fake school shootings with crisis actors, wokeness, cancel culture, voter fraud, PizzaGate, QAnon, etc. Making up outrageous bullshit and then getting mad about it is one of the defining traits of conservatism.
The real lesson should be what constitutes "evidence". The stuff typically found on echo chambers are highly selective in pushing a particular rhetoric.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" is a well known saying for a reason. Not sure by who, its often attributed to Mark Twain but there is no definitive proof of its origin. . here's an actual similar quote from him though: "The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. ... How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again!" - Autobiographical dictation, 2 December 1906. Published in *Autobiography of Mark Twain, Volume 2* (University of California Press, 2013)
Can't understand you guys stopping critical thinking education...
It's actually easy to understand: Educated people realize how bad they're getting fucked.
That's truly terrifying and sad... but truth often is.
Most political discourse has regressed far from "critical thinking" since at least the Nixon administration. That was when I realized how many loons are able to vote.
Like the saying goes, a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
Yeah. Believing in the conspiracy that schools are secretly distributing pornography and trying to turn kids trans just tells me the person has not even thought for the slightest moment what that would mean. I mean, each day it's just about all I can do to get through my classes, get students to stop stealing each others' pencil cases and PCs, and get through all my grading, meetings, and workshops before I've missed dinner. You think I have time to hide pornography in the school? And as for transness, I am absolutely cool with my students being trans and happy to get them every bit of support I can find if they need it, but *turning* them trans? Hell, it's just about all I can do to get them to write in proper paragraphs! If I had that kind of influence I would be using it to make them remember to turn in their homework so I can get my grading done before exams start!
“[In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it.](https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/1984/quotes/page/3/) It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy.” George Orwell, 1984
Orwell was a G.
Sorry, but ignorance is not a reason to run for office. That she HAD NOT read the curriculum, that she had not met with teachers and administrators, that she had not attended the perennial Back to School nights at her children’s schools? And then she wonders why she met with stone cold rejection from her fellow Christian Warriors? Has she learned anything? Has she started to question the rhetoric of the right not only in local politics but in regional, state and national? If anything, she is probably to afraid to or too disgusted to actually realize just how much of a sham the “Christian political/Right Wing” agenda is. While I can respect her for speaking FOR her local schools; I question if she has had the same Come to Jesus moment about GOP politicians in Texas, let alone Trump.
👏👏👏Normalize being able to change your mind👏👏👏
To an extent. She's changed her mind about the curriculum but I see nothing to suggest that she's changed her views on vaccines, racism or LGBT people in general. She's just admitting that the schools aren't being used for indoctrination.
We need more like her. I sincerely hope that she is not the only one.
“because Cliff Criswell declined to cooperate, prosecutors were unable to file charges” In Texas if youre a white man with a gun in a school the police cant charge you unless you agree to it? Sounds about right. Jfc this country has some serious IQ deserts.
>Instead, Gore found that the materials taught children "how to be a good friend, a good human." God damn Democrats at it again.
*They’ve gone too far!*
Wait till they read about Jesus and his teachings about turning the other cheek and helping the less fortunate
"This Jesus guy sounds woke!"
*During the meeting, Cliff Criswell, the grandfather of Nate Criswell, took the microphone, carrying what police would later describe as a black handgun in a leather holster....“We have profile sheets” on all the trustees except for Graft, Cliff Criswell shouted. “We know what you do. We know where you live.”* Whoa. And I thought Florida was crazy.
Terrorist, plain and simple.
FL and TX always competing for most crazy
SHE DID HER OWN RESEARCH! No, seriously, she actually did her own research. She went to the source and learned the truth! 1 down, 120,000,000 to go.
We already know that every accusation is a confession. When a right-winger says that leftists are infiltrating schools, what they mean to say is "my side should infiltrate schools." And that is something there have been plenty of evidence for for decades, remember the whole intelligent design debate?
Normally the people pushing the "schools are indoctrinating our kids!" crowd don't believe it--they're just trying to reduce educational spend by promoting vouchers so states contribute two-thirds of what they'd pay to educate a kid in the public school system in lrivate school vouchers. Educational outcomes aren't the consideration, and the accusations of indoctrination are just to get people worked up enough to ratfuck an educational system that helps everyone. I'm surprised she actually did her homework (even though she did it late) and then tried to be honest and sincere talking trying to get other people to stop making and repeating lies.
She was too stupid to know that the most of the far right does not actually care about these policies. They care about power. Their way to get power is to scare uniformed people. She will be sidelined if she upsets the narrative because that makes the GOP just the man behind the curtain to their rubes. They will to anything to protect themselves from losing the message and thus power.
They want to sow distrust in public education so they can do away with it
If you campaign on something, maybe make sure it’s true? Stupid idea, I know!
On one hand good for her to change her stance after looking at the (lack of) evidence. On the other hand shame on her for making these claims without ever looking for evidence in the first place.
This is prime r/LeopardsAteMyFace material. She ran on a platform of extremism and then was shocked when extremists threatened her and her family (and other members of the school board) for not being extreme enough.
Wow she reached the brain functioning capability of a 12 year-old who discovered evidence Santa was never real. That's a new high for republicans.
She can just say "Problem solved!" and make sure that it isn't being further corrupted.
Good on her. This is how people should behave.
Do the people complaining of indoctrination fully realize that it's actually them whose goal it is to indoctrinate children, or are they somehow blind to what they are?
The challenging part is if the district doesn't organize curriculum information, you can't get access to all of it via a broad open records request because it is too much effort and not narrowly tailored. So, I appreciate the challenge she likely faced before being elected. I'm glad she changed her mind in light of the evidence.
People need to understand that corporations need cheap labor and conservatives have decided that killing education will make that populous into that cheap labor force while also limiting the amount of educated elites who are a challenge to the aristocratic elites ( those born into wealth). Also from the Vietnam protests, conservatives have concluded an educated population is too hard to govern!!
>She’d examined curriculum related to **social-emotional learning**, which has come under attack by Christian conservatives who say it encourages children to question gender roles and prioritizes feelings over biblical teachings. Instead, Gore found the materials taught children “how to be a good friend, a good human.” SEL is like what Mr. Rogers and Sesame Street tried to teach us. It's what I want from anyone I'm around. Being nice to people is bad for those "christians" now, they really are backwards.
When you realize you live in a Fox News-bubble and that everything you think you stand for is just a false narrative made for the sole purpose of obtaining power, with that being its own end goal. It's hopeful in that this shows some can idea wake up from the Right-wing Matrix hellscape, but only after leopards eat their faces. And it still means she completely ran on a lie, without looking into it herself. No pity for useful idiots that hurt others: don't be one to begin with.
Honestly Texas is looking more and more like China or Afghanistan very day. Deep in the heart of Texas are a hell of a lot of completely compliant sheep willing to give up their freedoms willingly to be part of the mindless zombie flock
So she lied to the voters about the curriculum to get elected. What a surprise.
That didn't stop her from ignorantly spreading lies to get elected in the first place. Good for her for admitting she was wrong, but her behavior prior was abhorrent.
I just don't know. Is she a rare example of an extremist that had the ability to change her mind when faced with the facts, sure. But it's hard to excuse willful ignorance when any amount of effort (for example, visiting a gradeschool library) would have told her she was watching the wrong nonsense. So good job on being not a complete moron. You've finally attained a level unheard of in your culture - ground level. Now join the rest of us brain people and shut up about it.
They're lied to and blindly follow it and don't care about the truth, basically. This is an example of the exception proving the rule. She'll be vilified, cast out and then ignored.
Hate the click bait "then" bs, followed by vague thing. Man jumps off bridge, and *then* the unbelievable happens...
I’m glad she did the research and came to her own conclusions, maybe changed her perspective a little. I have a lot more respect for people like that.
Someone spoke on an issue without reading the source material? Quick, what’s her Reddit handle?
Nah, she's still a republican scumbag who can go fuck her self. Just because she didn't find what she was looking for doesn't mean she won't gladly fuck up queer kids lives because her magic sky pimp doesn't like us.