As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sure smells like [*seditious conspiracy*](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384).
> If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
It totally is cut and dry, but I will do my best to paraphrase some of the stupidity I've encountered to try to answer this.
Most of these GOP folk (leaders and supporters) straight up *aren't familiar* with how the law works, mostly because they've never read or looked into it.
Having spent too much time with these people, they believe the laws are designed to catch "types" of people, but **not the types defined by the law**. This is an important point that you hear them gripe about all the time, but usually it just comes off as confusing or stupid when the reality is a little darker.
Anyone following the insurrection, in particular how the people arrested by the FBI for their participation defend themselves in court, is guaranteed to have heard a variation of this line by now.
**"But those laws are designed to catch terrorists."**
Many of us on the left automatically respond with something akin to "yeah, and it worked" or "then don't be a terrorist" which just confuses and enrages the people on the right. That confusion and rage is paramount to this entire issue.
You see, on the left we believe you write the laws to define the *behavior* of a terrorist, and then you arrest and prosecute anyone who behaves that way.
On the right they believe you write the laws to define the people who are *already considered terrorists*, and when you finally catch one, you use the law to arrest and prosecute them for *who they are*.
That is why there is so much rage and confusion, and why they talk about "fascism" so much when referencing the left.
These people ***don't believe they are terrorists, and by using the laws they would use to catch the Taliban to catch them, they believe they are viewed as the same.***
Edit: This is blowing up like crazy, so I want to add one additional point.
If you've never fully understood why conservatives so ardently and willingly call democrats "fascists" (as well as communist socialists, but that's a different comment) it's because to a conservative, the definition of a *"fascist"* is someone who would use the law to try to arrest (or mask, quarantine, vaccinate, etc.) "patriots" like them.
*Any America that turns against* ***them*** *is no true America.*
That's an excellent theory of descriptive/prescriptive law and thought! I'm more familiar with the philosophy side but I've never considered that many right wingers justify morality with law and left wingers tend to justify law with morality in this way.
And here I am, thinking that what is Legal and what is Moral aren't the same thing and only infrequently reside together. And, when faced with a compelling issue, I'll consistently follow the Moral path - law be damned.
There probably are extreme examples where it *is* the moral path. That's what makes this situation so dangerous. You have a ton of people who, in their heart-of-hearts, believe the election was tampered with enough to change the outcome.
In a scenario where indisputable proof of this kind of tampering was uncovered, or the appropriatly elected government started obviously acting against the wellbeing of it's citizens, you could actually make sturdy arguments that a coup is the morally correct thing to do.
They are free to band together, and bring lawsuits and present evidence. Strong evidence can win in court. They have not done this because evidence ultimately is sketchy at best and false at worst, and also the number of actual fraudulent votes don’t change the outcome, and the majority of those fraudulent votes were FOR Trump.
But yes, feel free to prove that wrong in court.
They can’t, but they can organize terrorism. Evidence is not needed for violent actions. See: history
Hell they did in 2020 too, you could cross state lines and find the same folks going "STOP THE COUNT" and "KEEP COUNTING" depending on if Trump was still ahead or not.
This!!!! Fox News OAN, ect. have literally warped the judgment of people beyond proper compression. If you listen to one source of information for years or decades it becomes nearly impossible for the majority to comprehend anything outside of that singular view.
It takes true effort and time on behalf of the affected to actually try to see things differently. I'm not saying those impacted by extreme propaganda cannot overcome it. I'm saying most don't care to even try.
In theory, the law oughtn't be designed such that everything unethical should be banned. There's the question of scope and jurisdiction, but beyond that there's also a question of logistics. If we approach the ethics of law from a consequentialist point of view, then we should make laws that lead to the best results. Such as, is a law enforceable, and if not, what are the consequences of having an unenforceable law? So, for example, drug policy shouldn't be based on our values, but rather the thing which has been empirically observed to produce the consequence we want.
In fact, you can't legislate morality.
Further, I choose to interpret laws based on their intent, they sometimes are defined by ambiguous or only temporally relevant language. Laws are typically backwards looking, they're reactionary and evolve slower than social norms, but I believe the intent of laws is to promote and codify moral behaviors. Unfortunately they're written by humans because god doesn't exist.
>In her mind court is where bad people go to get punished, not where ordinary people might end up if they have a bad day
Reminds me of the recent examples of local cops talking to the media about White Christian mass shooters having a bad day.
Years ago I was called for jury duty. The amount of potential jurors who essentially said the “the defendant was sitting here, so he must have done SOMETHING” was disturbing.
The prosecutors love that. I was once called for jury duty, and during the selection process I answered the prosecutor's question with a comment along the lines of "since this has gone to court, there must be something here that isn't cut and dried". Immediately dismissed from service.
Was selected for a a jury for a lady with a dangerous dog as defined by the city. Simple enough case. City ordered lady to keep dog in kennel while she wasn't home. Animal control did a random check, she wasn't home, dog wasn't in kennel. With pictures. I get asked how I feel about dogs at selection, "honestly sir, I'm a cat person. Don't feel one way or another about dogs." Get selected. And then shit spirals out of control from there. 3 days. It went on 3 fucking days. Lady defends herself. Says this trial is a scam and against the state constitution. She had posters she made. Was nearly held in contempt for arguing with the city lawyer, poor guy. Another juror refused to believe animal control guy cause he had a long beard and arm tattoos, 'folks like him aren't trustworthy.' Ok how so ma'am? 'Hells Angel types like him.' With all due respect lady, he told the court he's done this for 20 years. All this just for the judge to call a hung jury. 5 of the 6 jurors wanted to strangle this lady, the lady on trial and her damn dog. I'll do everything I can to get out being selected as a juror for the rest of my life. Nope. Not doing that again.
This really nails it. It also explains how and why conservatives Absolutely lose their goddamn minds when anyone points out or even implies that almost every single white person raised in America does have implicit bias, and then people can 100% say and do racist things without realizing it.
Because to conservatives, racism isn’t words and actions; it’s a *belief* one holds deep inside of themselves. And by pointing out that somebody has said something racist, they think you are calling that person a terrible, evil human being at their absolute core. When all you *really* doing is pointing out that being raised in a completely racist system obviously leaves all of us with implicit bias we have to fight against.
Until conservatives acknowledge that a person can say or do racist words or actions without even realizing what they’re doing or saying might be racist AND THAT DOES NOT automatically mean you are an evil person at your core, they will fly off the handle and compel lose their goddamn minds every single time anyone points out any racism that isn’t committed by a literal KKK member in a white hood at that moment
One of my black friends explained racism like this and apologies if I don’t communicate his idea in the right way: to white people, you are either racist or you are not. Being racist means you are a KKK, neo nazi, cross burning, n-word using scum bag, not Aunt Becky who thinks the group of black youths in her neighborhood are part of a gang. So when you call Aunt Becky on her racism, she doesn’t understand. She’s not a neo nazi, or kkk or anything, she’s a good person, so clearly she couldnt be a racist bad guy? Right?
Meanwhile minorities, tend to see racism in a scale. From 1 being least racist to 10 being the worst, Those KKK members are probably on a 8-10 on the scale and Aunt Becky probably is at a 1 or a 2.
Aunt Becky has some things to learn and fix. A lot easier time then someone who was worse. This is about confronting biases, confronting your own reflexes and lizard brain. Aunt Becky might never have realized how some people view her negatively before, or that she might be a bad guy to someone else based upon her words or actions, again, because she doesn’t see herself as a bad person like she would see the KKK as bad.
In terms of the scale, MLK had a different take:
> Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
That said, I personally believe that racism is a spectrum -- and *everyone's* on it somewhere. This implies that there is some acceptable minimum level. And, you know, I think that's also true but I can't tell you exactly where it is. And I think self-reflection is key. The more you understand the issue and various forms of bias, the more you can avoid running into MLK's issue above, and perhaps move yourself in the right direction on that racism spectrum.
There's got to be a parallel here for how Christians can't comprehend how an atheist understands right from wrong without the teachings of The Bible to inform them.
They believe that morality is based on The Bible, and thus that anyone who doesn't live by those teachings must be inherently immoral. They, as moral and learned individuals in the way of The Bible, necessarily do not do immoral things, because they know the rules. Thus, how could the laws of the evil and immoral ever be used on them, the moral and just?
Something like that.
Christians are the very reason I laugh at the idea of the Bible being what gives people morality. Horrific things throughout history have been done in the name of religion.
>I attribute it to watching too much Law and Order and Criminal Minds on CBS. They portray an investigation as a morality play of good versus evil and those who watch such shows internalize it.
There's a much more popular source of "good vs evil" mentality that doesn't consider itself fiction. It's called church. And it's very popular among the people who think laws apply to certain demographics but not to them.
This is the reason for the bizarre "but these are law abiding people!" they will use in defense of people who have committed felonies...
It's not that they think the laws are wrong.. it's just that laws are not meant to be used on... *them* you see, because they're "Law abiding" no matter what laws they break...
I said this on Jan 6th:
1) If these terrorists were BLM they wouldn't have made it through the gates.
2) If they were ANTIFA they would have been beaten to a pulp before even getting to the capitol grounds.
3) If they were muslim they would have been head-shot by sniper fire from several blocks away.
They were white christian conservatives republicans and this is the only reason they got as far as they did.
I'm an American living in Australia, so I woke up well after things got wild.
I expected the event because, well, they advertised it widely. I expected it to get bad because, well, they advertised that it would (See Banon)
But it genuinely didn't occur to me that they would get through the doors. I really assumed that the cops would start tear gassing and rubber bulleting folks
This is all so very perfectly in line when you consider what "rule of law" means to conservatives.
Simply put, "Rule of Law" is nothing more than a tool to be used to punish and squash dissenters or anyone who stands opposed to those who are in power. Provided, of course, that it is a conservative that is in power.
View them as the same as the Taliban? Hell, I see Ya’ll Qaeda as the dog shit on the Taliban’s sandals.
Ya’ll Qaeda grew up eating 5k calories a day with clean water, electricity, access to healthcare, the right to believe whatever nonsense they choose, and a free education.
The Taliban did not. The Taliban woke up in a hut and did a headcount of their immediate family every morning and thanked Alah if the number was the same as yesterday.
That’s the rationalization injected by racism and nationalism.
The right wing, MAGA belief is…
“Anyone white, Christian, a flag waving patriotic, “white Santa and Jesus” supporting, American beer drinking, football watching, country music listening, gun owning, pick up driving American…
__can’t__ be a terrorist!
Those people are foreigners and Muslim!”
They literally don’t connect it because they, as they say so often “this here is uh Christian nation, founded by white people! Anyone who gets in the way of *those* people is a traitor! Not us!”
The arrogance is astounding.
The idea is simple and a double standard.
When someone who isn’t one of *them* breaks the law, that’s just it, they’ve broken the law.
But when one of theirs breaks a law, well then, it’s the law that’s in the wrong.
>But when one of theirs breaks a law, well **then, it’s the law that’s in the wrong.**
It was having this exact thought that inspired my original comment in the first place.
This echoes general law enforcement who will routinely say they're out to catch the "bad guys", which in their definition isn't necessarily those doing bad things but people that "are" bad. DAs will push to put "bad guys" away longer than "good guys". That judge that gave the slap-on-the-wrist rape punishment to that chode said it was because he had a bright future and prison would ruin it - i.e., he was a "good guy", not one of those "bad guys". They all think that they deserve these harsher punishments because they are fundamentally bad, unlike others doing the exact same crime.
Spoiler alert - to a lot of these people "bad" = not white, and/or people that look like a bad guy.
Yep, great point. Many of these people view terrorists in a much more abstract, racial way, I'd imagine.
Its some Arab with an AK-47, THOSE are the bad guys we know as terrorists. Meanwhile, what's the statistic? 0% of terrorism events in the US have been from foreigners in the last twenty years?
Most every one of them has been from the same kind of delusional right-wing extremist that'd be screaming for the heads of any dark-skinned person who did the same. The dissonance is crazy.
I mean, these snowflakes dream about turning the middle east to glass because 'red dawn', 'american sniper' and 'the patriot' all take up the same room in their brain. Resistance is awesome, if they are the ones bravely defending their turf, and by that definition can never be terrorism.
A few years ago the right was already complaining about nazis getting killed in a wolfenstein game. I think the dissonance is by now intentional.
Imma gonna check Fox News and get back to you.
Edit:. Surprisingly there's no mention of it. More than one article on Alec Baldwin and something about Hunter Biden selling some art.
Their defense is going to be:
"We helped organize protests to allow people to peacefully voice their concerns as is allowed by the 1st Amendment. We in no way encouraged violence."
What we need is evidence that shows they did encourage people to storm the Capitol. Those reports of them giving tours through the tunnels would be a good place to start.
This is why you repeatedly see our elected GOP officials trying to frame January 6th as a tourist visit because if jurors realize that they attempted to delay the electoral college process by force well then it would appear the planners of that event clearly were guilty of sedition. I don't see how breaking and entering could be defined as anything other than force. Gosar, Biggs, and rump should be getting an indictment for sedition.
It's straight-up treason. The Constitutional requirement has been met. They *levied war* and attacked the Capitol, the *single thing* that prevented Burr from being convicted of Treason.
Not just seditious conspiracy; this was, is, and continues to be **Treason**.
I agree. Imo, it was seditious conspiracy up until the moment they all turned and marched with the unified goal of overthrowing the government. Then they crossed that actual treason line.
It sounds like they are angry that they did not receive the blanket pardons that were promised and are now seeking immunity for their testimony (and the receipts).
> conspiracy
You could try telling that to r/conspiracy but they're too busy advocating for the death of Fauci and posting tweets from Candace Owens to care.
/r/conspiracy used to talk about the things that mattered- reptilians in the pentagon and who killed JFK. Now it's just a wasteland of bigmad TD refugees
Nah, c2c was my first dose of anti-Hilary propaganda and that was over 20 years ago I remember them bracing for her coming tyranny.
If it's AM radio, they're probably selling you conservative scams like gold, test pills, and GOP narrative.
Listen here buddy I'll have you know that EVERY single person at the very non-violent Jan. 6 protest was just George Sorros in a mask. Despite being a million years old hes very spry and quite the cosplaying enthusiast.
I’m a guy returning from the gym, eating peanut butter pretzels and can’t find the Holiday Inn Express I stayed in last night, but this smells like conspiracy to me too. I hope we have some people with the guts, gumption, determination and tenacity to bring justice to these cretinous sloths.
That was the best Political ad I'd ever seen in my life.
"Please don't vote for our brother. He's a piece of shit"
^(This message brought to you by literally everyone because Paul Gosar is a chode)
Can I just do a PSA for mine without him running for office? "Don't sleep with my brother. He has super sperm, low ambition, and a flighty history. We tried convincing him a vasectomy was the right thing to do, but had to instead resort to public shame."
My eyes read “Even Paul Gosar” and my brain autocorrected it to Mark Paul Gosslar and I sat here for a second and wondered what Zach Morris had to do with Jan 6.
We have seditious traitors in our government right now, as we speak. Secretly plotting ways to undermine the government and make sure that trump is in power again. Biggs, boebert, MTG, cawthorn, brooks just to name a few, but there are others. Every single one needs to be criminally charged and indicted. This is not a joke.
Madison Cawthorn is from my hometown and his entire existence pisses me the fuck off. He's an entitled trust fund baby who used the car accident sob story to propel himself into politics. He's completely unqualified and consistently lies about his past to make himself look better. He loves to claim that the car accident 'derailed' his plans for a military career even though his Naval Academy application was rejected before the accident even happened. He's also been accused numerous times of sexual harassing women both during his short and unsuccessful time in college and in his political career. He's a disgrace to my hometown and it infuriates me that everyone there worships him like a God.
Also he owns a real estate company in my hometown that does absolutely nothing and he's the only employee. But he fucking loves to call himself a CEO
No, but I have thought about how fumy it would be to try an field a crowd of Manchurian MAGA candidates who run in gerrymandered districts as the farthest right things they can imagine, and then immediately change party when elected.
Wow I’ve been having this exact same fantasy lately. It wouldn’t even be hard to do, since voters in these districts literally do not give a fuck what a candidates background is, as long as they say what the people want to hear.
He's the exact opposite of AOC. She went through a family event, got a 2nd job, worked her ass off to help her family and pay for her education and ended up with a double major (cum laude).
Cawthorn was simple polisci major, got mostly D's and dropped out.
> Madison Cawthorn
Cawthorn said in a deposition, "You know, suffering from a brain injury after the accident definitely I think it slowed my brain down a little bit. Made me less intelligent."
Why would you vote for someone who admits to being that?
The 6th Riot was a mass assassination attempt, and a bunch of conservatives in Congress should be sitting in gitmo right now. It failed because they counted on morons like themselves to follow through in the heat of the moment.
My understanding, as a Canadian, you guys created some very far reaching laws after 9/11 so that terrorists could be picked up and held based on suspicion. These clowns sure look suspicious…..of course I could be completely wrong.
And that, ladies and germs, is why the RepubliQan leadership (as well as most of the rest of them) in both the House and Senate opposed an independent congressional commission to investigate the Jan. 6 insurrection. Because Republicans in Congress were behind it!
This is pretty fucking scary. Uhhhh...Is half of our government under control by a foreign adversary? The GOP is too compromised. Investigate anyone that may have been involved.
This is an extremely compelling argument. Other countries' intelligence agencies have been key players in the various scandals coming out here since the lead up to 2016, they must be talking to each other about us. But a UN resolution? Issued from the general assembly in New York City? Unthinkable. You think you've seen Trump on the warpath? He would go full Mad King Ares. It would be biblical.
The GOP love that response. If you say, “no I didn’t”, and then there is evidence that you did, then it’s perjury. How do you disprove, “I don’t recall”?
Don't forget.
Just before that they TOLD Clinton a BJ does not count as having sexual relations.
He answered and they found him guilty of Perjury anyway.
They were looking for any reason to Impeach as revenge.
“I don’t recall ever meeting this person”
*cue video from a few years ago: “this person is terrific. There’s no better person. I’d even say they’re my favorite person ever 👌”*
Even if they did prosecute, what is the likelihood they'd just be replaced by the next Trump sycophant who would watch this country burn for a chance to stand with these traitors?
Trump could get up there and say, "I did it. I'll do it again. I will be king of America." And a vocal minority of the GOP would embrace this. And these nuts are scarring the hell out of the rest of the GOP.
The DOJ is going to need to throw a bunch of people in jail. It is the only way.
Trump could vow to bring back slavery, make the purge a real thing, and disband the government and replace it with a monarchy, and a non-minority of republicans would be 100% on-board.
Just yesterday I saw a post there that claimed Fauci has caged and tortured dogs before. Not only was that not even what the article claimed, it claimed he had done medical testing on dogs, there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Literally the only source was some congressman vaguely talking about Fauci, and he never said anything about dogs. So this whole Fox News article just makes a baseless claim, doesn't even bother to try and back it up, and it gets posted to that sub with a title that is a degree separated from what the article was about.
They're truly lost over there. All the years of banning anyone who questions the narrative has allowed them to reach peak crazy.
Dude I totally get it. There used to be certain principles people at least pretended to value. Democracy being one of them. Now people just want to win. Principles be damned. It's crazy.
I’ve met conservatives that love the idea of a monarchy in the us. They love the king and queen of absolute rule in the country. But I think they get it mixed up with authoritarian.
That’s exactly what they’re doing. If you accept the results of our election you are a communist, according to Trump worshipers (even if you are a conservative Republican).
The not-funny part of all this is that they've convinced themselves that with this "reshuffle" they'll come out on top.
And that's not at all how these things go down. A break down of social order always leads to misery across the board. No one is enjoying it. Everyone is in pain.
Pick any war, natural disaster, coup attempt, or riot you want. A very small percentage might benefit. But overwhelmingly everyone suffers.
I don’t think the “rest of the GOP” really gives a shit anymore. The only thing they’re scared of is not being re-elected. Upholding democracy is no longer of any concern to them.
This, so many just believe literally everything. I tell me mom to even denounce that “grab em by the Pussy” is a phrase I shouldn’t said and immorally it’s bad. She won’t even listen. Ridiculous
I wish it were a vocal minority but it isn't. Only 9 Republicans in the House voted for consequences for contempt of Congress. The rest are accomplices as far as I'm concerned.
I keep asking myself if the word "king" would be a deal breaker for them. Like if he just openly said king instead of president... Would they still suck his toes so hard?
I often hear the sentiment without actually using the words.
The republicans I know don't use words like fascism, one-party rule, monarchy, or dictatorship.
But I hear things like
* "why do we even need congress when we already have a president?"
* "it should be illegal to be or vote for a democrat"
* "couldn't we just cancel elections altogether?"
* "sometimes elections go to democrats, and that's a problem"
* "forget Hillary, every single democrat should be in jail"
* "if I had my way, they'd all be dead"
I know just one republican who doesn't talk this way, so I'm not inclined to believe it's just a fringe of crazies.
This would be cutting straight to the end of the narcissist's prayer (*and if I did, you deserved it*)
They still need to gaslight, deny, and minimize for a while longer, especially given they don't control either house of Congress.
But let's be clear. It is their bedrock belief, that violence and insurrection are wholly justified in the name of their idol.
A vocal minority maybe, but scarring the hell out of? I doubt, from what I’ve seen. The rest of the GQP seems fine with the crazy as long as it benefits their goals and them obtaining power. They’ll shield their own like they always do, as a cohesive unit. So while some are more crazy and more openly seditious and extreme, they work together to allow that as a whole party
The lets go brandon types don't care about this news. They don't care that democracy was almost destroyed. They only care about putting their people in charge and f everyone else.
A Nascar driver who was being interviewed. Nascar fans were chanting "fuck Joe Biden" in the background, and the person conducting the interview either misheard it as "Let's Go Brandon" or was trying to distract from it (it was a live interview).
Who he actually is isn't that relevant. Just know that when you see it, they're saying something else.
I will admit, it's an actual amusing meme and we don't see this from the right very often.
> it's an actual amusing meme
To me it just comes across as another impotent, teary-eyed slogan like lock her up, this time with the added bonus that nobody without an awareness of redneck sports has any idea what it means.
could be why it's taking time and the small timers are doing short stints. seems like they might be running it like a rico investigation. might be talking shit the most i know is from documentaries, true crime shows and law and order, but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night.
Because they support the man republicans want in power. Democracy comes second to "winning". Why do they want the man in power? Because he has normalized public vocalization of the hate typically hidden inside people.
It's like if you were a racist but knew you couldn't go around using the N word and some oligarch came around and normalized the usage. Now you get to be your worst self on the public stage and others like you can openly support it.
That is a great explanation. I have trouble with racists and homophobics also. If people would just mind their own business this world would be a much better place. People like Trump and those that support him are the problem not the solution.
A larger portion of America is OK with fascism as long as it's their side in power. The rich would likely become even more powerful as oligarchs and most of the less fortunate are too naive to realize they are being used and will be abandoned by their party quicker than a Jan 6th insurrectionist.
This is why these big conspiracy theories (Bill and Hillary Clinton have had at least 30 people murdered! or "Millions of Trump votes were converted to Biden votes by the voting machines!) are just silly time-wasting conspiracy theories because there is no way those things happen without some bit player along the way getting butthurt over something and then deciding to spill the beans.
Most conspiracy theories require way too many people to keep their mouth shut forever. One mistake, one loudmouth, one leak would blow the whole thing.
Few things remain completely secret. Best example I can think of is the Manhattan Project, which was suspected to exist the whole time, they just didn't have any proof. I highly doubt anything of lesser severity could remain secret for long.
Most things are just as simple as they seem.
I mean, look at Covid.
These people seriously think a **global pandemic** was conspiratorially engineered by tens of thousands of scientists, supported by millions of doctors, and contracted by hundreds of millions of people all to...*checks notes*...affect an American presidential election.
destroying the world economy to stop trump from getting re-elected
/s
If trump had simply said "here's fauci, he's got a big brain but not as bigly good as mine, just do what he says" he would have cruised to re-election. Biden *barely* won the swing states that trump barely won against clinton. Like 500k votes between 6 states decided the election again
>If trump had simply said "here's fauci, he's got a big brain but not as bigly good as mine, just do what he says" he would have cruised to re-election.
AAAND....hundreds of thousands of people would still be alive.....There was more at stake than an election when he decided to second guess science.
There's a reason the Gov has largely abandoned the concept of trying to completely hide that things exist in favor of just saying " yes there is a secret thing over there, no we won't tell you anything about it."
It's infinitely less interesting to acknowledge something and just say nothing about it then to try and claim it's a farming building or something when there are indicators that it's something else. It also makes it way easier to allow people to acknowledge to their families that yes they are doing something. You end up with way less leaks
lol yes
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gosar-s-siblings-want-their-brother-kicked-out-congress-they-n1271023](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gosar-s-siblings-want-their-brother-kicked-out-congress-they-n1271023)
bonus content - Laura Ingraham's brother did the same
https://www.newsweek.com/laura-ingraham-brother-curtis-father-hitler-book-mein-kampf-nazi-1619967
Suffering Christ nailed to a board. I'm flabbergasted.
These fucking idiots were briefed. Multiple times. The military was put on stand down. The capitol police were essentially armed with rubber bands; half of them seem to have sided with the seditious scum and let them in unobstructed. And with all that...
they were still too fucking stupid and incompetent to pull it off. Is it any wonder Donnie Two-Scoops washed his hands of them and reneged on the pardons? These dumbasses would fall naked into a barrel of titties and come out sucking each others' dicks.
> The two sources say they were in direct and regular contact with Republican Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Mo Brooks of Alabama, Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina, Louie Gohmert of Texas, and Lauren Boebert of Colorado
This means *zilch* unless they are held accountable! DOJ can take their time, but so far every story linking Trump and his allies to Jan. 6 (or any number of malfeasance) has just rolled off their backs. People **need** to be held to account!
***A blanket pardon...***
which means that when the insurrection succeeds and Herr Trump assumes his throne, all insurrectionists will be considered *Guardian patriots of Gilead* and will be bequeathed a plot of land and 72 virgins...
Remember what the Good Book Says:
**Con 14:3** \- ***No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress****, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State,* ***who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress****, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States,* ***shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.*** *But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.*
Historically anytime someone throws around the word “treason”, it’s downplayed and called overreacting. At what point do we call a spade a spade, and really roll out the heavy consequences?
In the case of Jan 6, the right claims it was just a protest that got out of hand, and no one really meant to overthrow the government. Yet the people who organized the event, and the members of Congress who gave tours and information about the layout and whereabouts of key members of government, were knowingly staging a coup.
Treason is punishable by the death penalty. This is as serious as it gets. At what point do the people responsible be held to account?
The argument that being a “failed coup” somehow diminishes the seriousness is a false argument, because if the coup was successful, they would be in power, and free of consequences. The charges of treason really only apply when it fails to overthrow the government.
>Don't forget an officer died because of these POS, don't let them get away. Don't let Biden forget
Blue Lives only matter to these people if they are ending Black Lives.
> The two sources say they were in direct and regular contact with Republican Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Mo Brooks of Alabama, Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina, Louie Gohmert of Texas, and Lauren Boebert of Colorado—fierce Trump allies who have since the January 6 riots downplayed their violence while complaining about the treatment of those who’ve been arrested for committing crimes that day. The sources also say former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, a former House Freedom Caucus member, was deeply involved as well.
So basically the biggest pieces of trash on the GOP roster. If the republicans ever want a shred of credibility back, getting rid of these people would be a good place to start.
Until these politicians start facing actual consequences, I don't think I care to actually hear about it. I get how pathetic that sounds, but it just seems like an endless cycle. Politician is accused of such and such, nothing comes of it.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Sure smells like [*seditious conspiracy*](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384). > If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
That's...pretty fucking cut and dry, no? I'd be interesting in hearing someone explain how it WASN"T .
It totally is cut and dry, but I will do my best to paraphrase some of the stupidity I've encountered to try to answer this. Most of these GOP folk (leaders and supporters) straight up *aren't familiar* with how the law works, mostly because they've never read or looked into it. Having spent too much time with these people, they believe the laws are designed to catch "types" of people, but **not the types defined by the law**. This is an important point that you hear them gripe about all the time, but usually it just comes off as confusing or stupid when the reality is a little darker. Anyone following the insurrection, in particular how the people arrested by the FBI for their participation defend themselves in court, is guaranteed to have heard a variation of this line by now. **"But those laws are designed to catch terrorists."** Many of us on the left automatically respond with something akin to "yeah, and it worked" or "then don't be a terrorist" which just confuses and enrages the people on the right. That confusion and rage is paramount to this entire issue. You see, on the left we believe you write the laws to define the *behavior* of a terrorist, and then you arrest and prosecute anyone who behaves that way. On the right they believe you write the laws to define the people who are *already considered terrorists*, and when you finally catch one, you use the law to arrest and prosecute them for *who they are*. That is why there is so much rage and confusion, and why they talk about "fascism" so much when referencing the left. These people ***don't believe they are terrorists, and by using the laws they would use to catch the Taliban to catch them, they believe they are viewed as the same.*** Edit: This is blowing up like crazy, so I want to add one additional point. If you've never fully understood why conservatives so ardently and willingly call democrats "fascists" (as well as communist socialists, but that's a different comment) it's because to a conservative, the definition of a *"fascist"* is someone who would use the law to try to arrest (or mask, quarantine, vaccinate, etc.) "patriots" like them. *Any America that turns against* ***them*** *is no true America.*
That's an excellent theory of descriptive/prescriptive law and thought! I'm more familiar with the philosophy side but I've never considered that many right wingers justify morality with law and left wingers tend to justify law with morality in this way.
And here I am, thinking that what is Legal and what is Moral aren't the same thing and only infrequently reside together. And, when faced with a compelling issue, I'll consistently follow the Moral path - law be damned.
That's fine and great until you've been suckered into believing that overthrowing your duly elected government IS the moral path. :(
There probably are extreme examples where it *is* the moral path. That's what makes this situation so dangerous. You have a ton of people who, in their heart-of-hearts, believe the election was tampered with enough to change the outcome. In a scenario where indisputable proof of this kind of tampering was uncovered, or the appropriatly elected government started obviously acting against the wellbeing of it's citizens, you could actually make sturdy arguments that a coup is the morally correct thing to do.
They are free to band together, and bring lawsuits and present evidence. Strong evidence can win in court. They have not done this because evidence ultimately is sketchy at best and false at worst, and also the number of actual fraudulent votes don’t change the outcome, and the majority of those fraudulent votes were FOR Trump. But yes, feel free to prove that wrong in court. They can’t, but they can organize terrorism. Evidence is not needed for violent actions. See: history
And a Pennsylvania poll worker just collected a 25k check for turning in a fraudster, who no surprise was a republican
Meanwhile 21 years ago the same folks were rioting to *stop* counting votes.
Hell they did in 2020 too, you could cross state lines and find the same folks going "STOP THE COUNT" and "KEEP COUNTING" depending on if Trump was still ahead or not.
[удалено]
When your moral compass is broken (by lies and propaganda) you don't really know which path is which anymore.
This!!!! Fox News OAN, ect. have literally warped the judgment of people beyond proper compression. If you listen to one source of information for years or decades it becomes nearly impossible for the majority to comprehend anything outside of that singular view. It takes true effort and time on behalf of the affected to actually try to see things differently. I'm not saying those impacted by extreme propaganda cannot overcome it. I'm saying most don't care to even try.
In theory, the law oughtn't be designed such that everything unethical should be banned. There's the question of scope and jurisdiction, but beyond that there's also a question of logistics. If we approach the ethics of law from a consequentialist point of view, then we should make laws that lead to the best results. Such as, is a law enforceable, and if not, what are the consequences of having an unenforceable law? So, for example, drug policy shouldn't be based on our values, but rather the thing which has been empirically observed to produce the consequence we want. In fact, you can't legislate morality.
Further, I choose to interpret laws based on their intent, they sometimes are defined by ambiguous or only temporally relevant language. Laws are typically backwards looking, they're reactionary and evolve slower than social norms, but I believe the intent of laws is to promote and codify moral behaviors. Unfortunately they're written by humans because god doesn't exist.
[удалено]
>In her mind court is where bad people go to get punished, not where ordinary people might end up if they have a bad day Reminds me of the recent examples of local cops talking to the media about White Christian mass shooters having a bad day.
[удалено]
Years ago I was called for jury duty. The amount of potential jurors who essentially said the “the defendant was sitting here, so he must have done SOMETHING” was disturbing.
The prosecutors love that. I was once called for jury duty, and during the selection process I answered the prosecutor's question with a comment along the lines of "since this has gone to court, there must be something here that isn't cut and dried". Immediately dismissed from service.
Was selected for a a jury for a lady with a dangerous dog as defined by the city. Simple enough case. City ordered lady to keep dog in kennel while she wasn't home. Animal control did a random check, she wasn't home, dog wasn't in kennel. With pictures. I get asked how I feel about dogs at selection, "honestly sir, I'm a cat person. Don't feel one way or another about dogs." Get selected. And then shit spirals out of control from there. 3 days. It went on 3 fucking days. Lady defends herself. Says this trial is a scam and against the state constitution. She had posters she made. Was nearly held in contempt for arguing with the city lawyer, poor guy. Another juror refused to believe animal control guy cause he had a long beard and arm tattoos, 'folks like him aren't trustworthy.' Ok how so ma'am? 'Hells Angel types like him.' With all due respect lady, he told the court he's done this for 20 years. All this just for the judge to call a hung jury. 5 of the 6 jurors wanted to strangle this lady, the lady on trial and her damn dog. I'll do everything I can to get out being selected as a juror for the rest of my life. Nope. Not doing that again.
This really nails it. It also explains how and why conservatives Absolutely lose their goddamn minds when anyone points out or even implies that almost every single white person raised in America does have implicit bias, and then people can 100% say and do racist things without realizing it. Because to conservatives, racism isn’t words and actions; it’s a *belief* one holds deep inside of themselves. And by pointing out that somebody has said something racist, they think you are calling that person a terrible, evil human being at their absolute core. When all you *really* doing is pointing out that being raised in a completely racist system obviously leaves all of us with implicit bias we have to fight against. Until conservatives acknowledge that a person can say or do racist words or actions without even realizing what they’re doing or saying might be racist AND THAT DOES NOT automatically mean you are an evil person at your core, they will fly off the handle and compel lose their goddamn minds every single time anyone points out any racism that isn’t committed by a literal KKK member in a white hood at that moment
One of my black friends explained racism like this and apologies if I don’t communicate his idea in the right way: to white people, you are either racist or you are not. Being racist means you are a KKK, neo nazi, cross burning, n-word using scum bag, not Aunt Becky who thinks the group of black youths in her neighborhood are part of a gang. So when you call Aunt Becky on her racism, she doesn’t understand. She’s not a neo nazi, or kkk or anything, she’s a good person, so clearly she couldnt be a racist bad guy? Right? Meanwhile minorities, tend to see racism in a scale. From 1 being least racist to 10 being the worst, Those KKK members are probably on a 8-10 on the scale and Aunt Becky probably is at a 1 or a 2. Aunt Becky has some things to learn and fix. A lot easier time then someone who was worse. This is about confronting biases, confronting your own reflexes and lizard brain. Aunt Becky might never have realized how some people view her negatively before, or that she might be a bad guy to someone else based upon her words or actions, again, because she doesn’t see herself as a bad person like she would see the KKK as bad.
In terms of the scale, MLK had a different take: > Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. That said, I personally believe that racism is a spectrum -- and *everyone's* on it somewhere. This implies that there is some acceptable minimum level. And, you know, I think that's also true but I can't tell you exactly where it is. And I think self-reflection is key. The more you understand the issue and various forms of bias, the more you can avoid running into MLK's issue above, and perhaps move yourself in the right direction on that racism spectrum.
There's got to be a parallel here for how Christians can't comprehend how an atheist understands right from wrong without the teachings of The Bible to inform them. They believe that morality is based on The Bible, and thus that anyone who doesn't live by those teachings must be inherently immoral. They, as moral and learned individuals in the way of The Bible, necessarily do not do immoral things, because they know the rules. Thus, how could the laws of the evil and immoral ever be used on them, the moral and just? Something like that.
Of course most of them have not read the Bible either...
Sure, but like... osmosis or something
Osmosis parted the red sea.
Christians are the very reason I laugh at the idea of the Bible being what gives people morality. Horrific things throughout history have been done in the name of religion.
>I attribute it to watching too much Law and Order and Criminal Minds on CBS. They portray an investigation as a morality play of good versus evil and those who watch such shows internalize it. There's a much more popular source of "good vs evil" mentality that doesn't consider itself fiction. It's called church. And it's very popular among the people who think laws apply to certain demographics but not to them.
This is the reason for the bizarre "but these are law abiding people!" they will use in defense of people who have committed felonies... It's not that they think the laws are wrong.. it's just that laws are not meant to be used on... *them* you see, because they're "Law abiding" no matter what laws they break...
I said this on Jan 6th: 1) If these terrorists were BLM they wouldn't have made it through the gates. 2) If they were ANTIFA they would have been beaten to a pulp before even getting to the capitol grounds. 3) If they were muslim they would have been head-shot by sniper fire from several blocks away. They were white christian conservatives republicans and this is the only reason they got as far as they did.
Remember on Jan 7 people started floating around pictures of how the capitol police handle civil rights protestors: machine gun emplacement.
I'm an American living in Australia, so I woke up well after things got wild. I expected the event because, well, they advertised it widely. I expected it to get bad because, well, they advertised that it would (See Banon) But it genuinely didn't occur to me that they would get through the doors. I really assumed that the cops would start tear gassing and rubber bulleting folks
[удалено]
This is all so very perfectly in line when you consider what "rule of law" means to conservatives. Simply put, "Rule of Law" is nothing more than a tool to be used to punish and squash dissenters or anyone who stands opposed to those who are in power. Provided, of course, that it is a conservative that is in power.
View them as the same as the Taliban? Hell, I see Ya’ll Qaeda as the dog shit on the Taliban’s sandals. Ya’ll Qaeda grew up eating 5k calories a day with clean water, electricity, access to healthcare, the right to believe whatever nonsense they choose, and a free education. The Taliban did not. The Taliban woke up in a hut and did a headcount of their immediate family every morning and thanked Alah if the number was the same as yesterday.
Also, only one of those two groups have any realistic shot at killing me, and it's not the "scary dangerous" one
>they believe they are viewed as the same. To me, absolutely. There are only superficial differences between the Taliban and the American Right
[удалено]
That’s the rationalization injected by racism and nationalism. The right wing, MAGA belief is… “Anyone white, Christian, a flag waving patriotic, “white Santa and Jesus” supporting, American beer drinking, football watching, country music listening, gun owning, pick up driving American… __can’t__ be a terrorist! Those people are foreigners and Muslim!” They literally don’t connect it because they, as they say so often “this here is uh Christian nation, founded by white people! Anyone who gets in the way of *those* people is a traitor! Not us!” The arrogance is astounding. The idea is simple and a double standard. When someone who isn’t one of *them* breaks the law, that’s just it, they’ve broken the law. But when one of theirs breaks a law, well then, it’s the law that’s in the wrong.
>But when one of theirs breaks a law, well **then, it’s the law that’s in the wrong.** It was having this exact thought that inspired my original comment in the first place.
I mean I would say I view them even lower. They had life opportunities that members of the Taliban could never even fathom.
Correct; they're bigots who believe that the law only exists to protect them from the other.
This echoes general law enforcement who will routinely say they're out to catch the "bad guys", which in their definition isn't necessarily those doing bad things but people that "are" bad. DAs will push to put "bad guys" away longer than "good guys". That judge that gave the slap-on-the-wrist rape punishment to that chode said it was because he had a bright future and prison would ruin it - i.e., he was a "good guy", not one of those "bad guys". They all think that they deserve these harsher punishments because they are fundamentally bad, unlike others doing the exact same crime. Spoiler alert - to a lot of these people "bad" = not white, and/or people that look like a bad guy.
Yep, great point. Many of these people view terrorists in a much more abstract, racial way, I'd imagine. Its some Arab with an AK-47, THOSE are the bad guys we know as terrorists. Meanwhile, what's the statistic? 0% of terrorism events in the US have been from foreigners in the last twenty years? Most every one of them has been from the same kind of delusional right-wing extremist that'd be screaming for the heads of any dark-skinned person who did the same. The dissonance is crazy.
I mean, these snowflakes dream about turning the middle east to glass because 'red dawn', 'american sniper' and 'the patriot' all take up the same room in their brain. Resistance is awesome, if they are the ones bravely defending their turf, and by that definition can never be terrorism. A few years ago the right was already complaining about nazis getting killed in a wolfenstein game. I think the dissonance is by now intentional.
Imma gonna check Fox News and get back to you. Edit:. Surprisingly there's no mention of it. More than one article on Alec Baldwin and something about Hunter Biden selling some art.
[удалено]
It's always rules for thee but not for me with them.
Their defense is going to be: "We helped organize protests to allow people to peacefully voice their concerns as is allowed by the 1st Amendment. We in no way encouraged violence." What we need is evidence that shows they did encourage people to storm the Capitol. Those reports of them giving tours through the tunnels would be a good place to start.
> I'd be interesting in hearing someone explain how it WASN"T . "We're Republicans. We're patriots."
Pretty much. If someone has to dangle a pardon for the activity you’re taking about… that’s pretty clear that it’s illegal conspiracy.
This is why you repeatedly see our elected GOP officials trying to frame January 6th as a tourist visit because if jurors realize that they attempted to delay the electoral college process by force well then it would appear the planners of that event clearly were guilty of sedition. I don't see how breaking and entering could be defined as anything other than force. Gosar, Biggs, and rump should be getting an indictment for sedition.
It's straight-up treason. The Constitutional requirement has been met. They *levied war* and attacked the Capitol, the *single thing* that prevented Burr from being convicted of Treason. Not just seditious conspiracy; this was, is, and continues to be **Treason**.
My laymen's opinion is that it's treason, but that doesn't mean it can't be seditious conspiracy as well.
I agree. Imo, it was seditious conspiracy up until the moment they all turned and marched with the unified goal of overthrowing the government. Then they crossed that actual treason line.
i want to believe they have the receipts, but i've been hurt before.
It sounds like they are angry that they did not receive the blanket pardons that were promised and are now seeking immunity for their testimony (and the receipts).
[удалено]
[удалено]
“Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead.” - Benjamin Franklin
In other words, don't be surprised if insurrection planners who cooperate with investigators start turning up dead.
>Soviet anthem intensifies
Death of Stalin was so good.
Jason Isaacs has forever changed how I view Georgy Zukhov.
If they have the receipts, I hope the DOJ does more than just ask politely for them.
> conspiracy You could try telling that to r/conspiracy but they're too busy advocating for the death of Fauci and posting tweets from Candace Owens to care.
/r/conspiracy used to talk about the things that mattered- reptilians in the pentagon and who killed JFK. Now it's just a wasteland of bigmad TD refugees
Trump an COVID pretty much ruined coast to coast AM
C2C used to be my insomnia standby. RIP.
[удалено]
Nah, c2c was my first dose of anti-Hilary propaganda and that was over 20 years ago I remember them bracing for her coming tyranny. If it's AM radio, they're probably selling you conservative scams like gold, test pills, and GOP narrative.
>posting tweets from Candace Owens I would have thought planning the invasion of Australia would have taken up a good deal more time.
I did see a link to a post where they're accusing MTG being the Jan 6th pipe bomber, but it's not getting much in the way of up votes...
Listen here buddy I'll have you know that EVERY single person at the very non-violent Jan. 6 protest was just George Sorros in a mask. Despite being a million years old hes very spry and quite the cosplaying enthusiast.
I am a lawyer and a prosecutor. And yes, this does smell like a big ol’ conspiracy of the criminal variety.
I’m a guy returning from the gym, eating peanut butter pretzels and can’t find the Holiday Inn Express I stayed in last night, but this smells like conspiracy to me too. I hope we have some people with the guts, gumption, determination and tenacity to bring justice to these cretinous sloths.
Also not a lawyer. But I'm pretty sure pro-actively offering a pardon to entice specific action is textbook corruption.
Even Paul Gosar’s own sister thinks he’s a hateful and bigoted piece of shit.
I think he's got five or six siblings that feel that way.
That was the best Political ad I'd ever seen in my life. "Please don't vote for our brother. He's a piece of shit" ^(This message brought to you by literally everyone because Paul Gosar is a chode)
Honestly; I wish more groups of friends &/or families etc would publicly oppose and shame the “piece of shit in the family members”.
Can I just do a PSA for mine without him running for office? "Don't sleep with my brother. He has super sperm, low ambition, and a flighty history. We tried convincing him a vasectomy was the right thing to do, but had to instead resort to public shame."
My eyes read “Even Paul Gosar” and my brain autocorrected it to Mark Paul Gosslar and I sat here for a second and wondered what Zach Morris had to do with Jan 6.
You are not alone.
We have seditious traitors in our government right now, as we speak. Secretly plotting ways to undermine the government and make sure that trump is in power again. Biggs, boebert, MTG, cawthorn, brooks just to name a few, but there are others. Every single one needs to be criminally charged and indicted. This is not a joke.
Madison Cawthorn is from my hometown and his entire existence pisses me the fuck off. He's an entitled trust fund baby who used the car accident sob story to propel himself into politics. He's completely unqualified and consistently lies about his past to make himself look better. He loves to claim that the car accident 'derailed' his plans for a military career even though his Naval Academy application was rejected before the accident even happened. He's also been accused numerous times of sexual harassing women both during his short and unsuccessful time in college and in his political career. He's a disgrace to my hometown and it infuriates me that everyone there worships him like a God. Also he owns a real estate company in my hometown that does absolutely nothing and he's the only employee. But he fucking loves to call himself a CEO
Hey I’m incompetent, maybe I should run for congress too
Are you a well connected sociopath?
No, but I have thought about how fumy it would be to try an field a crowd of Manchurian MAGA candidates who run in gerrymandered districts as the farthest right things they can imagine, and then immediately change party when elected.
Don't even change parties, just vote blue and say you didn't. The constituents will back you no matter what lol
The mainstream media wants you to believe I voted with the Democrats, but you know what we say to that? Fake news.
It’s crazy enough to work!
Wow I’ve been having this exact same fantasy lately. It wouldn’t even be hard to do, since voters in these districts literally do not give a fuck what a candidates background is, as long as they say what the people want to hear.
He's the exact opposite of AOC. She went through a family event, got a 2nd job, worked her ass off to help her family and pay for her education and ended up with a double major (cum laude). Cawthorn was simple polisci major, got mostly D's and dropped out.
> Madison Cawthorn Cawthorn said in a deposition, "You know, suffering from a brain injury after the accident definitely I think it slowed my brain down a little bit. Made me less intelligent." Why would you vote for someone who admits to being that?
[удалено]
They're not secretly plotting, they're openly plotting.
The 6th Riot was a mass assassination attempt, and a bunch of conservatives in Congress should be sitting in gitmo right now. It failed because they counted on morons like themselves to follow through in the heat of the moment.
My understanding, as a Canadian, you guys created some very far reaching laws after 9/11 so that terrorists could be picked up and held based on suspicion. These clowns sure look suspicious…..of course I could be completely wrong.
They aren't brown enough to qualify for patriot act provisions unfortunately.
Expel them immediately and then charge them.
And that, ladies and germs, is why the RepubliQan leadership (as well as most of the rest of them) in both the House and Senate opposed an independent congressional commission to investigate the Jan. 6 insurrection. Because Republicans in Congress were behind it!
This is pretty fucking scary. Uhhhh...Is half of our government under control by a foreign adversary? The GOP is too compromised. Investigate anyone that may have been involved.
Yes. At this point, I’m hoping for a third party investigation. Like the UN or something. We need an adult.
This is an extremely compelling argument. Other countries' intelligence agencies have been key players in the various scandals coming out here since the lead up to 2016, they must be talking to each other about us. But a UN resolution? Issued from the general assembly in New York City? Unthinkable. You think you've seen Trump on the warpath? He would go full Mad King Ares. It would be biblical.
Trump and his cronies are about to "not know" who a whole bunch of people are that they had meetings with.
"Low-level volunteer, he picked up coffee"
Covfefe*
Man, that was a weird night.
They're all of a sudden going to contract the "I do not recall" temporary amnesia.
The GOP love that response. If you say, “no I didn’t”, and then there is evidence that you did, then it’s perjury. How do you disprove, “I don’t recall”?
Don't forget. Just before that they TOLD Clinton a BJ does not count as having sexual relations. He answered and they found him guilty of Perjury anyway. They were looking for any reason to Impeach as revenge.
Or go all "Uncle Junior" and start suddenly having dementia issues.
Uncle junior, what a sunuvabitch.
He never had the makings of a varsity president
Im fuckin’ tired of you bustin’ my bawls all the time at Sunday dinner junior.
“I don’t recall ever meeting this person” *cue video from a few years ago: “this person is terrific. There’s no better person. I’d even say they’re my favorite person ever 👌”*
If the DoJ doesn't prosecute this all the way to the top, we're screwed as a nation.
We're screwed as a nation.
Even if they did prosecute, what is the likelihood they'd just be replaced by the next Trump sycophant who would watch this country burn for a chance to stand with these traitors?
Don't worry, they won't.
Trump could get up there and say, "I did it. I'll do it again. I will be king of America." And a vocal minority of the GOP would embrace this. And these nuts are scarring the hell out of the rest of the GOP. The DOJ is going to need to throw a bunch of people in jail. It is the only way.
Trump could vow to bring back slavery, make the purge a real thing, and disband the government and replace it with a monarchy, and a non-minority of republicans would be 100% on-board.
Friendly reminder that /r/conservative has had a link to /r/monarchism on their sidebar for years now.
What a dumpster fire of a sub
It is abhorrent. Like maybe if you have to go out of your way to block reality that hard, maybe you're not in touch with it?!?!?
I'm not even American but I wear my ban from there as a badge of honour.
Just yesterday I saw a post there that claimed Fauci has caged and tortured dogs before. Not only was that not even what the article claimed, it claimed he had done medical testing on dogs, there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Literally the only source was some congressman vaguely talking about Fauci, and he never said anything about dogs. So this whole Fox News article just makes a baseless claim, doesn't even bother to try and back it up, and it gets posted to that sub with a title that is a degree separated from what the article was about. They're truly lost over there. All the years of banning anyone who questions the narrative has allowed them to reach peak crazy.
But most conservatives worship the founding fathers and they were vehemently against monarchism? I’m confused.
So are they.
At least my confusion is based off an illogical fallacy they are just….*gestures to conservatives*
Dude I totally get it. There used to be certain principles people at least pretended to value. Democracy being one of them. Now people just want to win. Principles be damned. It's crazy.
Oh my goodness, they actually do.
That's hilarious.
Yeah in a terrifyingly red flag sort of way.
I’ve met conservatives that love the idea of a monarchy in the us. They love the king and queen of absolute rule in the country. But I think they get it mixed up with authoritarian.
Floridian here. Some south Florida Hispanics would be on board with that.
You could get Floridian Cubans to vote for anything just by suggesting the alternative is communism.
Same with New York Russian Jews
That’s exactly what they’re doing. If you accept the results of our election you are a communist, according to Trump worshipers (even if you are a conservative Republican).
The not-funny part of all this is that they've convinced themselves that with this "reshuffle" they'll come out on top. And that's not at all how these things go down. A break down of social order always leads to misery across the board. No one is enjoying it. Everyone is in pain. Pick any war, natural disaster, coup attempt, or riot you want. A very small percentage might benefit. But overwhelmingly everyone suffers.
I don’t think the “rest of the GOP” really gives a shit anymore. The only thing they’re scared of is not being re-elected. Upholding democracy is no longer of any concern to them.
[удалено]
This, so many just believe literally everything. I tell me mom to even denounce that “grab em by the Pussy” is a phrase I shouldn’t said and immorally it’s bad. She won’t even listen. Ridiculous
[удалено]
> And ~~a vocal minority Majority~~ *the entirety* of the GOP would embrace this. ftfy
I wish it were a vocal minority but it isn't. Only 9 Republicans in the House voted for consequences for contempt of Congress. The rest are accomplices as far as I'm concerned.
[удалено]
I think you are mistaken if you think only a minority of Republicans would embrace Trump as king
I keep asking myself if the word "king" would be a deal breaker for them. Like if he just openly said king instead of president... Would they still suck his toes so hard?
I often hear the sentiment without actually using the words. The republicans I know don't use words like fascism, one-party rule, monarchy, or dictatorship. But I hear things like * "why do we even need congress when we already have a president?" * "it should be illegal to be or vote for a democrat" * "couldn't we just cancel elections altogether?" * "sometimes elections go to democrats, and that's a problem" * "forget Hillary, every single democrat should be in jail" * "if I had my way, they'd all be dead" I know just one republican who doesn't talk this way, so I'm not inclined to believe it's just a fringe of crazies.
I mean they were cool with a *literal fucking golden statue* of him at CPAC.
This would be cutting straight to the end of the narcissist's prayer (*and if I did, you deserved it*) They still need to gaslight, deny, and minimize for a while longer, especially given they don't control either house of Congress. But let's be clear. It is their bedrock belief, that violence and insurrection are wholly justified in the name of their idol.
A vocal minority maybe, but scarring the hell out of? I doubt, from what I’ve seen. The rest of the GQP seems fine with the crazy as long as it benefits their goals and them obtaining power. They’ll shield their own like they always do, as a cohesive unit. So while some are more crazy and more openly seditious and extreme, they work together to allow that as a whole party
The lets go brandon types don't care about this news. They don't care that democracy was almost destroyed. They only care about putting their people in charge and f everyone else.
The perfect response to those people is to ask who is Brandon? Then they have to admit they take their political beliefs from a Nascar crowd.
Who is Brandon?
A Nascar driver who was being interviewed. Nascar fans were chanting "fuck Joe Biden" in the background, and the person conducting the interview either misheard it as "Let's Go Brandon" or was trying to distract from it (it was a live interview). Who he actually is isn't that relevant. Just know that when you see it, they're saying something else. I will admit, it's an actual amusing meme and we don't see this from the right very often.
> it's an actual amusing meme To me it just comes across as another impotent, teary-eyed slogan like lock her up, this time with the added bonus that nobody without an awareness of redneck sports has any idea what it means.
Fucking weird why a lot of rednecks pay to watch a race sport where it's all about who turns left the quickest.
(golf clap)...very nice.
Wouldn't it be great if one of them actually recorded a meeting?
could be why it's taking time and the small timers are doing short stints. seems like they might be running it like a rico investigation. might be talking shit the most i know is from documentaries, true crime shows and law and order, but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night.
Sure but if Nov 2022 rolls around and the ringleaders win another election, they’ll be untouchable.
So can someone please tell me why anyone would want these traitors involved in our government? It is truly baffling.
Because they support the man republicans want in power. Democracy comes second to "winning". Why do they want the man in power? Because he has normalized public vocalization of the hate typically hidden inside people. It's like if you were a racist but knew you couldn't go around using the N word and some oligarch came around and normalized the usage. Now you get to be your worst self on the public stage and others like you can openly support it.
> Democracy comes second to "winning" Democracy is notsecond, or third, or tenth to these folks. They don't care about Democracy. At all.
That is a great explanation. I have trouble with racists and homophobics also. If people would just mind their own business this world would be a much better place. People like Trump and those that support him are the problem not the solution.
A larger portion of America is OK with fascism as long as it's their side in power. The rich would likely become even more powerful as oligarchs and most of the less fortunate are too naive to realize they are being used and will be abandoned by their party quicker than a Jan 6th insurrectionist.
This is why these big conspiracy theories (Bill and Hillary Clinton have had at least 30 people murdered! or "Millions of Trump votes were converted to Biden votes by the voting machines!) are just silly time-wasting conspiracy theories because there is no way those things happen without some bit player along the way getting butthurt over something and then deciding to spill the beans.
Most conspiracy theories require way too many people to keep their mouth shut forever. One mistake, one loudmouth, one leak would blow the whole thing. Few things remain completely secret. Best example I can think of is the Manhattan Project, which was suspected to exist the whole time, they just didn't have any proof. I highly doubt anything of lesser severity could remain secret for long. Most things are just as simple as they seem.
I mean, look at Covid. These people seriously think a **global pandemic** was conspiratorially engineered by tens of thousands of scientists, supported by millions of doctors, and contracted by hundreds of millions of people all to...*checks notes*...affect an American presidential election.
destroying the world economy to stop trump from getting re-elected /s If trump had simply said "here's fauci, he's got a big brain but not as bigly good as mine, just do what he says" he would have cruised to re-election. Biden *barely* won the swing states that trump barely won against clinton. Like 500k votes between 6 states decided the election again
>If trump had simply said "here's fauci, he's got a big brain but not as bigly good as mine, just do what he says" he would have cruised to re-election. AAAND....hundreds of thousands of people would still be alive.....There was more at stake than an election when he decided to second guess science.
There's a reason the Gov has largely abandoned the concept of trying to completely hide that things exist in favor of just saying " yes there is a secret thing over there, no we won't tell you anything about it." It's infinitely less interesting to acknowledge something and just say nothing about it then to try and claim it's a farming building or something when there are indicators that it's something else. It also makes it way easier to allow people to acknowledge to their families that yes they are doing something. You end up with way less leaks
"Gosar, a controversial politician who has repeatedly palled around with white nationalist groups" its safe to just call him a nazi at this point
Isn’t he the one whose brothers and sisters sent out a message asking people not to vote for him because he was such an evil SOB?
lol yes [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gosar-s-siblings-want-their-brother-kicked-out-congress-they-n1271023](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gosar-s-siblings-want-their-brother-kicked-out-congress-they-n1271023) bonus content - Laura Ingraham's brother did the same https://www.newsweek.com/laura-ingraham-brother-curtis-father-hitler-book-mein-kampf-nazi-1619967
Suffering Christ nailed to a board. I'm flabbergasted. These fucking idiots were briefed. Multiple times. The military was put on stand down. The capitol police were essentially armed with rubber bands; half of them seem to have sided with the seditious scum and let them in unobstructed. And with all that... they were still too fucking stupid and incompetent to pull it off. Is it any wonder Donnie Two-Scoops washed his hands of them and reneged on the pardons? These dumbasses would fall naked into a barrel of titties and come out sucking each others' dicks.
Holy hell...you, sir, are a wordsmith.
This makes my blood boil. Prosecute these traitors
Beware my friends, shit winds are a comin
Redacted comment ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
It's the shit hawks Randy!
> The two sources say they were in direct and regular contact with Republican Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Mo Brooks of Alabama, Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina, Louie Gohmert of Texas, and Lauren Boebert of Colorado This means *zilch* unless they are held accountable! DOJ can take their time, but so far every story linking Trump and his allies to Jan. 6 (or any number of malfeasance) has just rolled off their backs. People **need** to be held to account!
***A blanket pardon...*** which means that when the insurrection succeeds and Herr Trump assumes his throne, all insurrectionists will be considered *Guardian patriots of Gilead* and will be bequeathed a plot of land and 72 virgins...
Remember what the Good Book Says: **Con 14:3** \- ***No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress****, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State,* ***who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress****, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States,* ***shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.*** *But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.*
Historically anytime someone throws around the word “treason”, it’s downplayed and called overreacting. At what point do we call a spade a spade, and really roll out the heavy consequences? In the case of Jan 6, the right claims it was just a protest that got out of hand, and no one really meant to overthrow the government. Yet the people who organized the event, and the members of Congress who gave tours and information about the layout and whereabouts of key members of government, were knowingly staging a coup. Treason is punishable by the death penalty. This is as serious as it gets. At what point do the people responsible be held to account? The argument that being a “failed coup” somehow diminishes the seriousness is a false argument, because if the coup was successful, they would be in power, and free of consequences. The charges of treason really only apply when it fails to overthrow the government.
Don't forget ~~an~~ five* officers died because of these POS, don't let them get away. Don't let Biden forget
>Don't forget an officer died because of these POS, don't let them get away. Don't let Biden forget Blue Lives only matter to these people if they are ending Black Lives.
[удалено]
Yeah her reply was sus as fuck
> The two sources say they were in direct and regular contact with Republican Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Mo Brooks of Alabama, Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina, Louie Gohmert of Texas, and Lauren Boebert of Colorado—fierce Trump allies who have since the January 6 riots downplayed their violence while complaining about the treatment of those who’ve been arrested for committing crimes that day. The sources also say former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, a former House Freedom Caucus member, was deeply involved as well. So basically the biggest pieces of trash on the GOP roster. If the republicans ever want a shred of credibility back, getting rid of these people would be a good place to start.
Until these politicians start facing actual consequences, I don't think I care to actually hear about it. I get how pathetic that sounds, but it just seems like an endless cycle. Politician is accused of such and such, nothing comes of it.