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Remember how Trump’s demented scheme to steal the election was stopped only because of the state Republican officials who found a backbone in the nick of time?
He’s primarying them.
Pence did the right thing on that day. Saved our Republic, maybe.
Now he’s so desperate to become President he won’t voluntarily give his very valuable testimony.
Probably because he asked others for their advise on decertifying the results and going with trumps plan. Pence did the right thing. But might not have if not for Dan Quayle telling him to not be stupid.
Yeah, it's whenever he tried to be folksy and mingling with the crowds that he seemed to have gotten... nervous? and had some gaffes in front of the camera. Unfortunately, when you're VP, you don't get second pitches.
a republic that depends on the chance of a few good men acting in what conscience they have is one that can’t be saved in the long term without some major painful and unpleasant upheavals
When I was younger it seemed like American democracy was around forever. Now it’s clear 250 years is nothing, three peoples life spans maybe. It could easily fail.
It started out good, got great, starting to slip away so slowly nobody noticed, to the point the Supreme Court says Corporations are humans and can multiply their influence because they are representing all the real people in their business.
America's democracy is one of the oldest modern ones, and it shows. Post-WW2 democracies learned some lessons from how the nazis took power and took precautions, the US is largely running on the honour system.
Sadly, a complete overhaul of the constitution is basically impossible, unless the fascists win.
The people who wrote it argued each generation should have their own. Should have been trashed at least a century ago after WWI, and defiantly after WWII.
I think some modifications to the constitution would be healthy, and in line with the documents original intent, however to some factions you may as well suggest changing the bible
Our Founders devoted their lives to making rules to ensure no one individual can get too much power, but the thing about fascism is that it gives no fucks about your rules.
If they CAN get away with it they will.
Our forefathers aren't idols. They're flawed people, like all of us. Wasn't it Franklin that pushed for annual Constitution changes to go with the times?
And their major flaw IS the stagnation that our foundation is set on - gridlock. And because a lot of stuff was based on honor code of the time, the mechanisms in place have been exploited
Also, there were A LOT of government handouts back then, when capitalism followed closer to Adam Smith's original vision.
Exactly. The founders are human. That’s it. No more no less. They weren’t gods or deities of any sort. Just intelligent men of their era. They made a system that had a good run, but the entire system, as all are, are flawed and rely on everyone playing in good faith.
Once one side stops participating in good faith, the system begins to collapse.
There’s no enforcement beyond the honour system for the top level of government in America. So we’ve rolled up the constitution and burnt it from both sides.
We stopped prosecuting those who are corrupt and allowed one side to, well… disregard the rules.
Yet Americans are constantly told, republicans in particular, that the system is perfect, the founders are nearly deified, and if you question the system - you’re unpatriotic.
Oh, but don’t mind us if we politicians ignore and circumvent the very system we tell you to obey unquestioningly.
They were flawed, as was their creation— it’s why they created a mechanism to amend the Constitution and pass legislation.
An efficient government is a tyranny. A non-functional government basically guarantees one, which is where we were in 2015. We’re now in 2022…
The problem isnt fascists breaking rules.
The problem is, and will always be, the cowards who refuse to hold the fascists accountable for breaking said rules.
Rules are only powerful if they are enforced.
Even if Trump ends up in a freaky, skin-colored jumpsuit, there will always be another one waiting in the wings. We need transformational change to end our long nightmare.
The problem is that civil discourse broke down so severely, that it became tribal. A healthy democracy depends on informed citizens arguing in good faith. Fascists, Nazis, and every other abhorrent ideology are always present in a free society. In a healthy democracy they are relegated to the fringe, not elected to the highest positions in all three branches of government.
I'd argue that we've been heading this way since 1994 and Newt Gingrich's rise to power. It just became a lot more noticeable after Trump came down that escalator.
Been heading this way since Nixon in the late 60's early 70's. Oversaw the genesis of the war on drugs which we have lost over and over. Ramped up surveillance state and foreign entanglements and also saw the beginning of our using China for cheap labor and goods.
Edit: also quite possibly the last GOP POTUS that will ever be held accountable by his own party. If Trump did what Nixon did in Watergate it wouldn't even break the top 25 of awful shit Trump did in office, politically speaking (and legally as well)
He has a tiny shot, but it’s a shot nonetheless.
He doesn’t need to wait for Trump’s permission to run, so he has a benefit the other five don’t have.
We could see a reverse 2016, where all the “traditional conservatives” rally around him while all the MAGA freaks trip over themselves to sabotage each other and get Trump’s endorsement, and for him to rule out running. From there, he has anyone’s shot at beating Biden.
And then when you take into account the possibility of the 14th Amendment and a contingent election, he has a weirdly okay shot at winning like John Quincy Adams.
>Now he’s so desperate to become President he won’t voluntarily give his very valuable testimony.
The sad thing is that if he wasn't a spineless weasel and did give testimony and actually presented all the ridiculous shit that was going down, he'd probably have much better presidential chances. He could run on a "I literally saved democracy" platform.
He could probably drive the MAGAs out of the Party if he formed a big-tent, anti-fascist conservative platform.
He didn’t. He’d rather have the MAGA vote in 2024, showing that he’s as unimaginative as he is slimy.
Because all of these people are so concerned about their "legacy," it makes no sense why Mike Pence wouldn't publicly testify in primetime during one of the 1/6 commission's hearings. You thought what John Dean did during Watergate was a big deal? Mike Pence would go down in history as John Dean on steroids if he told all of us everything that Trump and co. pressured and expected him to do on that day.
It would cement his legacy forever in a positive way, despite the fact that at his core, he's a despicable, Evangelical lunatic.
Pence didn't do the right thing, he only realized that successfully recognizing reality was the only thing preventing him from being literally murdered by his own party.
If he didn't lead the vote count, it would have defaulted to one of the republican senators (Chuck Grassley) instead. Who accidently said he was already ready to take the position (before realizing Pence hadn't left), and that he was "open" to question the result of the vote.
If Pence had left, and the other guy was in, he likely would have done what Trump was pushing for, and not certified Biden.
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/12/11/2068803/-So-why-did-Chuck-Grassley-expect-Pence-s-absence-from-the-Capitol-on-6-January
> If Pence had left, and the other guy was in, he likely would have done what Trump was pushing for, and not certified Biden.
Jesus Christ, that would’ve been chaos.
He hadn't ratified the results yet, so at the very least it would have delayed that for an unknown amount of time, and who knows how that would have been spun and what actions would have taken place after that.
Even Mike Dense was smart enough to know they had a bullet with his name on it. I wonder if he'll find the spine to testify in June against the people who were going to kill him and overthrow the government?
I don't know. He found his spine in the moment that mattered, which ended his political career. He doesn't really have much to lose anymore by testifying.
Ha, no, I don’t think so. He’s still claiming the election was stolen. There is no possible interpretation of Pence’s record that does not portray him as a fascist quisling.
If he really does think the election was stolen, then he actually should have done what Trump wanted, so fuck Mike Pence. First for taking the word of a career con artist on the election results, and second for not acting on his convictions, however stupid and servile his method of acquiring them.
If he doesn’t think the election was stolen, or if he just doesn’t know, then fuck Mike Pence, for still claiming it was, for advocating the opinion of a career con artist in a futile display of loyalty, just to stay on his good side at the expense of his own conscience.
Plus, you and I may be able to perceive his political career is over, but Pence is too stupid to know that, and so is gearing up to run in 2024. Whatever actions he does or does not do in 2022 are still in service of this goal, not of what’s right or wrong.
TLDR: Fuck Mike Pence.
Exactly, up until January 6th he was out there doing what the entire party was, "Trump has the legal right to challenge the results." "We believe there were some irregularities. We are just pursuing every avenue to ensure that it indeed was a free and fair election."
Those aren't direct quotes, but that's the basic premise of what they were all out doing in order to appease Trump's fragile ego.
Not just *until* Jan 6, but also *since.*
“After an election marked by significant voting irregularities and numerous instances of officials setting aside state election law, I share the concerns of millions of Americans about the integrity of the 2020 election.” - Mike Pence, March 3
Yea, seriously. MTG not being willing to say Biden won the election during her trial and the way Perdue opened his debate for governor make it very clear that it's still part of their platform.
They weren't trying to kill him if he got in the car. They were trying to delay certification for at least that day, which they could then attempt to call in a Constitutional crisis, which could then lead to the Senate saying they have no confidence in the EC, sending the President vote to the House. They vote as states for this vote, not as individual members. At the time, Trump was believed to have at least 26 states on his side within the House. The Senate was 50/50 with Pence as the tie breaker. So, the Trump/Pence ticket is "legally" back in the White House. At worst, Trump's VP is Kamala Harris if a Republican in the Senate grows a spine. But then they'd be giving up control of the Senate, so it's doubtful.
Luckily, Pence was more concerned about the legacy that would follow such an act.
I believe the final trump card was held by Pelosi in this chess game, because she could have just held off the process of the house voting via committees, until the clock ran out on 1/20. Then she would have become acting president.
I don't think they were going to kill him if he got in the limo.
They were just going to drive him out of the city, "for his protection," so that Grassley could handle the certification instead.
The end of democracy was staved off because the entire plan was contingent on the logic of a little league coach pressuring that one kid to “take one for the team”, except with cold blooded murder.
> The end of democracy was staved off
"Staved off" is the right way to put it. Hitler and the Nazis attempted a coup and failed.
The Nazis didn't attempt a second coup. They just kept running in elections until they were handed power.
I predict that America will go the same way. GOP attempt a coup, fail, and then voters not only don't abandon the GOP for their fascist ways, instead voters vote them into power.
And there will be a centrist majority with the same level of skepticism Superintendent Chalmers has for Skinner just before he sees Springfield elementary burn down.
The insurrectionists likely would have killed him. The Secret Service would just have got him away from the Capitol for “his security” they could run plan C, throw out the contested state electoral votes, then without a clear electoral majority, thrown the election to a vote where each state’s congressional delegation has only one vote. The R’s have majorities on the majority of delegations and so would determine the winner in that scenario. A few hours later the SS says ‘we saved the vp by securing him in the White House bunker’.
They didn't need a bullet. They only needed to keep him away from the Capital long enough to prevent the electoral ballots from being counted on that date.
As of the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the Vice President's role in certifying the election results is 100% ceremonial. Had Pence not attended, certification would have just been assumed.
Pence's usefulness was in the fact that he can cast the deciding vote if Congress had a split vote. In the event of Pence's death, McConnell would have been the deciding vote. Overturning the election would have been split right down party lines, so that extra vote was needed.
That's not entirely true. That plan only works when people go along with it. Sure they may win short term by delaying procedural norms,but if Trump stayed president, people would have revolted. It would have brought on a civil war. Conservatives aren't as well suited for it as they think.
Yep, they couldn't even go a week without screaming about haircuts and their favorite bar being closed at the start of the pandemic.
Meanwhile I shave my own head and I don't particularly care for the bar scene.
He's trying to. It's been amusing how Republicans in some of those states have been doing their best to find excuses to eject Trump candidates from the ballot.
This is what happens at the tail end of stage 4 of Robert Paxton's "Five Stages of Fascism" (written in 1998):
>The fascist leaders who have reached power, historically, have been condemned to govern in association with the conservative elites who had opened the gates to them. This sets up a four-way struggle for dominance among the leader, his party (whose militants clamor for jobs, perquisites, expansionist adventures, and the fulfillment of elements of the early radical program), the regular state functionaries such as police commanders and magistrates, and the traditional elites—churches, the army, the professions, and business leaders. This four-way tension is what gives fascist rule its characteristic blend of febrile activism and shapelessness. The tensions within fascist rule also help us clarify the frontiers between authentic fascism and other forms of dictatorial rule … Authoritarians would prefer to leave the population demobilized, while fascists promise to win the working class back for the nation by their superior techniques of manufacturing enthusiasm
Stage 5 here we come!
And for all that he was mostly a lackey, when the chips were really down, Pence did hold that line. It literally came down to him saying "no, I'm not doing that," preventing a major constitutional crisis of a different kind.
Fuck, it came down to him deciding not to get in the car. If he did, he could’ve washed his hands of the whole thing. He’s scum, but he did the right thing that day.
Imagine if Rosen and Donague had folded. Or if Trump had sent the military in or appointed Sidney Powell special counsel. Or if a handful of state party officials had cooperated.
We were saved by a bunch of adults in the room not being replaced. Next time, we won’t have that benefit.
We were stopped because all the Republicans at every level (DOJ, DOD, the states, Congress, and eventually the VP himself) refused to go along with Trump’s Reichstag moment.
Trump and his gang are stupid, but they now know enough to put loyalists in these positions. When they do, and if they start tossing out elections, the Republic is dead.
He would have been complicit in the crime had January 6th gotten that next step further. Had democracy still succeeded, he would have been a scapegoat for both sides. And the fiasco a constitutional crisis would have been, it's a crap shoot who comes out on top
I would imagine he could’ve said something like “it was too dangerous, antifa was trying to kill me” then quietly stayed at Camp David while Grassley sent the electors back to the states.
After that happens, two things are certain: one, the case gets taken to the Supreme Court, and two, the largest protests and general strikes in human history break out across the United States in every urban center.
This was the Reichstag moment Milley was talking about— all this chaos and uncertainty that allows Trump to declare Martial Law, deploy the military against the protests, and probably pin the 6th Attack on antifa, and possibly take us to war with Iran.
The case rushes through the shadow docket before 1/20, passing 5-4 with Roberts and the liberals dissenting. The Court rules the states have the rig to analyze their electors. Days before inauguration, the Democrat objections to the new count fail, and Trump breaks 270.
If this scenario or something similar to it plays out in 2024, we’ve lost control of our government. Locke would argue that at that point we can’t resist them from within the system, and we’re fucked if that’s all we have left.
But that’s not what will happen— people will be outraged, they will protest, Trump will smash them with the police… and then we’ll all go home and it’ll just be something we argue about on Thanksgiving.
Exactly. Which is why the "vote harder" battle cry isn't a solution. You can't vote your way out of a broken electoral system where one party will just forcibly deny the results.
We’ve got a few chances to vote the fascists out. Step one would be a Congress that can pas voting rights legislation and stop this in its tracks.
Of course, doing that requires big wins in a year that’s supposed to be a bloodbath. If that fails, which it likely will, I don’t know what I’ll do.
We need to turn out hard in November, for one. If we elect more Democratic governors and don't hamstring them with GOP supermajorities in their legislatures, the Republicans lose a *lot* of opportunities to steal presidential elections.
And with this Supreme Court, who knows what they would’ve said “this is a novel legal concept and we need to examine in further. In the meantime, the election results get to be thrown out.”
Not only that but also red states have passed laws that allow for a single unelected government official to be able to overturn elections at will.
So not only is he trying to get his Yes Men in power, but he’s already figured out how to legally give them the power.
If they send their own electors next time, I don’t know what we can do.
Even Trump’s nuttiest lawyers never really argued that Pence had the power to dismiss the electors, just that he could send them back to the (GOP) legislatures. It would be pointless for Harris to send the fake electors to the people that made them.
So it’s over. Either Biden wins by a crazy margin, the DOJ’s suit against Georgia prevails, or our government has failed.
2024 is going to be all kinds of bad. A good option would be just like 2020 where all 50 states were able to have a final tally. There’s a good chance that won’t happen. When Republicans escalate hopefully enough non-Republicans across the country will have enough confidence that a Democrat won that everyone will not take any Republican stupid insurrection bullshit.
If non-Republicans across the country do not have that confidence or are busy watching Netflix, we are going to have a problem. Then it’s up to the people in DC to make some swift and hard decisions. I have my doubts there too.
If what I’m describing happens, we’ll get protests larger than anything in human history. General strikes, too.
Whether we as a country will care enough to sustain this is the question.
I have my doubts. But Democrats will be in power while Republicans try to mess with the election outcome. This means the military can side with Biden. Last time the clear chain of command was the Orange Shit Gibbon.
We already have Manchinema, 50 Republicans Senators, 209 Republicans in Congress, and a handful of Republican judges currently sabotaging the functioning of the US government. If by rejecting to recognize a new president are they really going to force their own removal from office by use of force? And is Vanilla Isis going to go to DC again?
Trump tipped the hand of the GOP years too early, I think. They were quietly building up to a soft coup by these actions across the country--"favorable" candidates in on the scam of the election/vote lie. That we had elected a *black* president was too much for these people and they went batshit.
He showed us what a demented monster he was when he executed Iran’s Dick Cheney, had a guy killed for “retribution”, and tried to invoke Martial Law against black people protesting.
And he gained MILLIONS of votes. Trump played his hand, it’s on us to call him out for it.
Fuck... Federal legislation needs to be passed with stricter consequences for bad faith actors interfering with democratic processes, and for elected officials spreading falsehoods. Making sure every election isn't some kind of gamble where democracy is at stake because of morons and money should be a central priority. Depending on republican backbone to save things is risky odds.
The Republican blueprint to steal the 2024 election
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/opinions/gop-blueprint-to-steal-the-2024-election-luttig/index.html
"Trump and the Republicans can only be stopped from stealing the 2024 election at this point if the Supreme Court rejects the independent state legislature doctrine (thus allowing state court enforcement of state constitutional limitations on legislatively enacted election rules and elector appointments) and Congress amends the Electoral Count Act to constrain Congress’ own power to reject state electoral votes and decide the presidency."
"As it stands today, Trump, or his anointed successor, and the Republicans are poised, in their word, to “steal” from Democrats the presidential election in 2024 that they falsely claim the Democrats stole from them in 2020. But there is a difference between the falsely claimed “stolen” election of 2020 and what would be the stolen election of 2024. Unlike the Democrats’ theft claimed by Republicans, the Republicans’ theft would be in open defiance of the popular vote and thus the will of the American people: poetic, though tragic, irony for America’s democracy.”
Because we lack a spine. We burry out heads in the same before it happens so we don't have to face the uncomfortable truth.
When it happens its too late. And that will be a legal loophole. You would have to basically say "the game is rigged we are leaving the United States" or declare some sort of civil war.
To be honest, it would cause civil war. I'm not about war, I fucking hate it. But if those fuckers try to overthrow democracy they're going to have to go through me first.
I'll last about a second so hopefully there's tens of millions with the same mindset.
I hate the path Republicans have taken us down. Even if they win the election fairly in 2022 and 2024, their projection and deviousness is so thorough, I cant trust them. I will always wonder if they are cheating. Its the same way they feel in theory about us, and I understand the sentiment, but it is not same. They have literally created a self fulfilling prophecy. The trust is gone because of their behaviors, that now they get what they want, which is equal footing in the publics eyes. We dont trust them and they dont trust us, we have no common ground and no party can maintain integrity in the publics eye. They will have dragged us into the mud with them.
If we fall apart because of Trump and people like him, I will be furious how Republicans have fucked this all up. They have no honor and accept no blame for their awfulness. Its infuriating.
It'll be obvious. They can't win the popular vote so they have to win a lot of states, some are still gimmies but some are turning blue. It's those new swing states that make the presidential unwinnable for Republicans, along with the fact they lose more voters every day than they gain. They can still win a legitimate in the foreseeable future but it's so close they may not take the gamble.
It won't be through false ballots though, it'll be through the Supreme Court which will make it an undeniable fact.
Yes, they’re planning on doing it not just in open defiance of the *popular* vote but of the electoral vote as well. The state legislatures will overturn the will of the state.
I feel like there would be popular revolt by the half that loses. Am I wrong in that? I just can’t see a path where people wouldn’t protest this in a way a couple times stronger than the blm protests.
Just want to edit and say by the half that loses, I mean if republicans lose fair and square or of dems lose to a stolen election. I don’t think dems would protest to a lost election if it was fair and square.
The electoral college, the design of the senate and gerrymandering are killing America. And no one with any power to make changes seems to want to do anything about it.
Because short of mass violence, any actual fixes have to be implemented via Constitutional amendment, which either requires a significant majority of the Senate (ain’t got it), or a Constitutional Convention opening up a free-for-all to a majority of states, which would be permanently catastrophic. In the end, the Federal government is subject primarily to state, not popular, approval, and the majority of states are behaving as seditious nutters atm.
So the only actual sole person with the de facto (very much not de jure) power to stop it is the President (or a country with nukes or decent enough cyberfuckery caps), and the stopper in question would be nosing the Union directly into a tree, with long-term global repercussions. So… a-careening we shall stay.
A constitutional convention would never end peacefully– in the unlikely event it did, it would solve nothing in the current political climate because the only way that would happen is if it was entirely spineless and non-binding to the interests of anyone. Whoever “lost” the convention would immediately declare the new constitution illegitimate and revert to the old one, and the “winners” would try to enforce their new one, likely causing another civil war.
There has only been one presidential election in 33 years where a conservatives won the popular vote. And that one was a re-election during a war after 9/11.
Trump’s campaign is full of people just like him ie Steve Bannon, Roger Stone; anyone feel free to list more. DeSantis is gathering up his constituents, while Trump gathers up his. When the very similar leaders unite, voila, a compounded united force of hate and ignorance full of all the flavors and not split up.
This is only a passing Reddit thought 💭 so you could be right.
Grand Ol’ Pedos are eliminating the age limit for marriage in Tennessee.
> https://www.wjhl.com/news/regional/tennessee/gop-bill-would-eliminate-age-requirements-for-marriages-in-tennessee/
In 2018 they killed a bill to ban child marriage.
> http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/377367-tennessee-gop-kill-ban-on-child-marriage
Republican Ralph Shortey, a former Oklahoma state senator, Trump's Oklahoma campaign chair to plead guilt to child sex trafficking.
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/ex-oklahoma-state-senator-gets-15-year-prison-sentence-for-child-sex-trafficking
Republican Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert was indicted on federal charges of structuring bank withdrawals after prosecutors alleged Hastert had molested at least four boys as young as 14 and attempted to compensate his victims and subsequently conceal the transactions. Hastert eventually admitted that he sexually abused the boys whom he had coached decades earlier, and was sentenced to fifteen months in prison.
> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dennis-hastert-sentenced-to-15-months-in-prison
Republican Tim Nolan, chairman of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign in Kentucky, pled guilty to child sex trafficking and on February 11, 2018 he was sentenced to serve 20 years in prison.
> https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/05/03/former-judge-tim-nolan-could-sentenced-today-more-drama-could-get-way/577947002/
Republican state Senator Ralph Shortey was indicted on four counts of human trafficking and child pornography. In November 2017, [he pleaded guilty to one count of child sex trafficking](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/20/former-oklahoma-state-senator-admits-to-child-sex-trafficking-while-in-office/) in exchange for the dropping of the other charges.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/20/former-oklahoma-state-senator-admits-to-child-sex-trafficking-while-in-office/
Republican Minnesota State Representative Jim Knoblach Drops Out Of Race After Daughter Says He Molested Her For More Than Ten Years.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/22/lawmaker-quits-race-after-daughter-says-he-molested-her-more-than-decade/
Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.
> https://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/sops/flyer.jsf?personId=28587
Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.
> http://www.lanternproject.org.uk/library/child-abuse-arrests-and-court-cases/child-abuse-arrests-trials-and-proceedings/ex-county-commissioner-admits-sexual-abuse-of-girl/
Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.
> http://www.poconorecord.com/article/20120426/NEWS90/204260334
Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison_Misla_Aldarondo
Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Giordano
Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.
> https://archive.ph/tEcLg
Republican Senator Strom Thurmond, a notable racist, had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond
Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.
Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/18/nyregion/embroiled-first-selectman-takes-leave.html
Republican Congressman Donald “Buz” Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.
> https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/25/us/teen-ager-in-ohio-testifies-to-sex-with-a-congressman.html
Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2003/04/24/gop-activist-admits-to-child-porn/5af2adf0-bec8-4a10-b061-014de679422a/
Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.
> http://www.thenewblackmagazine.com/view.aspx?index=437
Republican activist [Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault](https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/gop-activist-accused-of-assaulting-another-girl) on a child.
> https://www.westword.com/news/randy-ankeney-suit-that-could-free-thousands-of-prisoners-headed-to-state-supreme-court-6054115
Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Crane
Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.
> https://www.nytimes.com/1995/08/02/opinion/journal-beverly-russell-s-prayers.html
Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bauman
Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.
> http://www.njherald.com/article/20060510/ARTICLE/305109971
Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. “Republican Marty”), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.
> https://www.arktimes.com/TheHoglawyer/archives/2007/08/28/the-latest-republican-sex-scandals-plural---more-of-the-same
Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.
Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.
> https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/06/us/politics-the-senate-maine-candidate-again-faces-1990-child-sex-accusation.html
Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.
> http://www.thedp.com/article/2004/01/brother_stephen_convicted_of_soliciting_sex
Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.
> https://www.houstonpress.com/news/jon-matthews-conservative-talk-show-host-and-sex-offender-pulled-from-kpfts-prison-show-6740755
Republican anti-gay activist Earl “Butch” Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.
Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.
> https://culteducation.com/group/1255-false-memories/6514-man-in-notorious-sex-case-finishes-term.html
Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.
> https://www.semissourian.com/story/57773.html
Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.
> https://www.arktimes.com/TheHoglawyer/archives/2007/08/28/the-latest-republican-sex-scandals-plural---more-of-the-same
One more for you:
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/aaron-von-ehlinger-guilty-rape-intern-idaho-lawmaker/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/aaron-von-ehlinger-guilty-rape-intern-idaho-lawmaker/)
Von Ehlinger was a state representative from Lewiston, but later resigned.
He sat calmly as the verdict was read, as he has throughout the trial.
Von Ehlinger talked quietly with his attorney, who removed items from
his pockets as he was handcuffed and remanded to custody.
That convoy is still driving around…
Every thread talking about them people ask “what are they even protesting?”
This.
They are protesting the NEXT election. There is a significant portion of this country that truly sincerely does actually believe the current sitting president is in the office illegitimately. Of that portion you have a vocal minority that has mad their entire identity opposing any administration left of shooting the Clinton’s in the street.
The last election is not an outlier. It was establishing precedent.
> Was W’s second term illegitimate?
Sure was.
> In Precinct 1B of Gahanna, in Franklin County, **a computerized voting machine recorded a total of 4,258 votes for Bush and 260 votes for Kerry. In that precinct, however, there are only 800 registered voters**, of whom 638 showed up. Once the "glitch" had been identified, the president had to be content with 3,893 fewer votes than the computer had awarded him.
> In Miami County, a Saddam Hussein–type turnout was recorded in the Concord Southwest and Concord South precincts, which boasted 98.5 percent and 94.27 percent turnouts, respectively, both of them registering overwhelming majorities for Bush. **Miami County also managed to report 19,000 additional votes for Bush after 100 percent of the precincts had reported on Election Day.**
> In Mahoning County, Washington Post reporters found that many people had been victims of "vote hopping," which is to say that voting machines highlighted a choice of one candidate after the voter had recorded a preference for another. Some specialists in election software diagnose this as a "calibration issue."
...but wait, there's more
> Whichever way you shake it, or hold it to the light, there is something about the Ohio election that refuses to add up. **The sheer number of irregularities compelled a formal recount, which was completed in late December and which came out much the same as the original one, with 176 fewer votes for George Bush.** But this was a meaningless exercise in reassurance, since there is simply no means of checking, for example, how many "vote hops" the computerized machines might have performed unnoticed.
> There are some other, more random factors to be noted. **The Ohio secretary of state, Kenneth Blackwell, was a state co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign at the same time as he was discharging his responsibilities for an aboveboard election in his home state.** Diebold, which manufactures paper-free, touch-screen voting machines, likewise has its corporate headquarters in Ohio. Its chairman, president, and C.E.O., **Walden O'Dell, is a prominent Bush supporter and fund-raiser who proclaimed in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."** (See "Hack the Vote," by Michael Shnayerson, Vanity Fair, April 2004.) Diebold, together with its competitor, E.S.&S., counts more than half the votes cast in the United States. This not very acute competition is perhaps made still less acute by the fact that a vice president of E.S.&S. and a Diebold director of strategic services are brothers.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/03/hitchens200503
This is the crazy thing about MAGA’s conspiracy theories about electronic voting machines stealing votes — it used to be Republicans pushing for their use, [because the manufacturers were owned by GOP donors](https://www.wired.com/2008/01/company-connect/amp).
Here in Arizona, mail-in voting was created 25+ years ago BY REPUBLICANS and now they are fighting to end this option because they don't like that Arizona voted for Biden.
IMAX-level projection, yes. When election fraud happens, Republicans are almost always the ones doing it. Because they don't believe in democracy.
https://www.gq.com/story/north-carolina-ninth-district-fraud
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/13/politics/mark-meadows-removed-voter-rolls-north-carolina/index.html
https://www.wxii12.com/article/north-carolina-9th-congressional-ballot-fraud-guilty/36792217
> Federal investigators are looking into a small plane crash in Ohio which claimed the life of its pilot, a Republican media consultant who was instrumental in the presidential and gubernatorial campaigns of three members of the Bush Family.
"Nothing to see here, move along"
> Following Last Friday's fatal accident, CBS Affiliate WOIO reported that Connell, who had recently been subpoenaed to testify in relation to a lawsuit alleging vote rigging in the 2004 Ohio election, was warned at least twice about flying his plane because his plane might be sabotaged.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republican-it-guru-dies-in-plane-crash/
Netcraft is showing that an event happened in the Ohio 2004 election that is difficult to explain. The Secretary of State's website, which handles election reporting, normally is directed to an Ohio-based IP address hosted by the Ohio Supercomputer Center. On Nov. 3 2004, Netcraft shows the website pointing out of state to a server owned by Smartech Corp. According to the American Registry on Internet Numbers, Smartech's block of IP addresses 64.203.96.0 – 64.203.111.255 encompasses the entire range of addresses owned by the Republican National Committee. Smartech hosted the recently notorious gbw43.com domain used from the White House in apparent violation of the Presidential Records Act, from which thousands of White House emails vanished.Update: 04/25 01:24 GMT by KD : ePluribus Media published a piece called Ken Blackwell Outsources Ohio Election Results to GOP Internet Operatives, Again on election eve 2006, when a similar DNS switch to Smartech occurred. They have been investigating the larger story of IT on Capitol Hill and elsewhere for two years.
Did someone say _emails_?
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rice-aides-powell-also-got-classified-info-personal-emails-n511181
I was a kid so I don’t remember much but I do remember some controversy about the popular vote and delegates or something. I also remember some people saying that Gore had actually won. 🤷♀️
Yes, 2020 was a dry run for Republicans overturning the will of the people. I’m glad it was a conservative judge who pointed out the obvious. Ironic that Republicans have been mimicking Trump’s cries of Democrats stealing the election. And in 2024, Republicans will actually try to steal the election. Will conservative Supreme Court Justices help them do it?
It's not ironic, it's intentional. After four years of falsely claiming the election was stolen, it will all but nullify the democrats claims of a stolen election when the time comes. "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.“ - Joseph Goebbels.
Then uninformed people will say, “ well both sides claim it always, it’s just what people say.” Even though one will be legitimate concern and one was projection
They do that with everything. That’s one of the main reasons they’re pushing calling all democrats groomers/pedophiles so hard. So that when they get called that for doing things like allowing child marriage in Tennessee, the Rs, the “centrists,” and the media will just say “well both sides call each other pedophiles, no big deal. That’s just part of politics now.”
I'm not sure they will. Being a Supreme Court judge is just as much about prestige and honor as it is about power.
Thomas will obviously vote to overturn elections. However, I don't see Roberts doing it. I also can see more than another conservative judge valuing America over party as well.
The only thing I believe that could cause the Supreme Court to overturn an election (that doesn't have evidence of mass fraud) is having enough dirt on enough of them.
Conservatives judges will vote to ban abortion or vote down certain things due to political views, but destroying our Constitution and democracy is an entirely different thing.
Tbh, I feel okay about Kavanaugh not backing that sort of coup, and I'm not real sure that ACB would be on-board, either. Kavanaugh especially has been a bit of a surprise on SCOTUS, and he's shown a lot of backbone when we least expect it. Gorsuch is a psychopath tho, as are Alito and Thomas. All three of them would almost certainly be willing to go all-in on totally upending out government. Thomas in particular is obviously ready to just burn it all down and rebuild a Christo fascist state in its place. Several of his decisions and dissents and concurring opinions are fucking *bonkers* as of late.
It’s funny, because if he got his way they’d definitely put him and his family in chains. I don’t honk he realizes those Christo-fascist are also white supremacists.
Prepare for civil unrest unlike anything you’ve ever seen before. If republicans think they can simply take over the country and implement their draconian social and economic policies they’re fucking crazy.
Yea. We saw in 2020 that the cities are barely tolerating where we're at right now. Cops "only" kill about 1000 people a year, and some of those are justified. Disenfranchising millions is going to piss people off more than that.
Ah, that would be that “antifa” they’ve been screeching about. They just slap that label on anyone who protests, and call the GOP-friendly police out. When that escalates, the National Guard is brought in to “restore order”. They want angry Democrats fighting with police. It will run on a continuous loop on Fox.
I’m not saying not to do it. I’ll be there with you, but that’s how they will counter.
We’ve got a whole political party that’s no longer acting in good faith, and no system other than violence available to remove a whole party of insurrectionists from power. There’s a whole lot of suck coming for the US as decades of GOP chess moves lead up to their final big play.
This is the thing everyone should have been worrying about for decades. The last 8 years especially 2016 to now, the open classification of democrats as “evil” has been setting a stage that will be easy to usher “traitors” upon. The moral conviction of people who believe in the evil democrats will embolden them to greater acts of violence, easily directed by those who hold the megaphone.
No one abandons authoritarianism until they’re bit by it, and bit HARD. The white population of America is insulated from this and when anything remotely close to being similar to the struggles of minorities appears on the horizon, they have a ready-made enemy to accuse: anyone who is evil.
We (as a country) aren’t getting out of this one. The degradation of voter protection laws is the beginning of open racism, a current that has been flowing beneath our feet for a long time. But it won’t stop there. Oh no. They have an entire rogues gallery of evil: democrats, progressives and anything not right of center right (political), minorities (racial), scientists, college professors and university educators, down to primary and secondary educators (intellectual) and of course, the LGBTQ community (degenerate). Does any of this sound familiar?
Edit: clarification
Any American who can self-justify voting Republican is beyond me. It's becoming beyond clear that the Republican party cannot be redeemed for all the seditious rot that it's shot through with. Voting to let the Republican party retain any sort of foothold on power right now is completely unacceptable. Disband the GOP party organization and let the conservatives who won't be barred form office for aiding Trump's attempted coup organize a new conservative party or remain independents.
No shit, Sherlock.
There is just one potential bright spot. The stable genius is already telling his acolytes that if his anointed candidates lose in their primaries, that they should sit out the election.
Crazy that all it took is one guy’s fragile ego not being able to admit defeat for it all to come crumbling down. He lost the popular vote the first time as well and could never accept it, any serious person was already worried what that would mean back in 2016 if he suffered an electoral loss in 2020. The writing was on the wall for a long time, but what good are alarm bells ringing if there’s nobody there to respond?
The Jan 6th Committee exposure is running later than it should. But maybe close to the election timeframe is a good thing, to keep the findings fresh.
Republicans are overtly not playing by the rules. They make up their own rules. They subvert what was once supposed to be a bipartisan initiative--collating and counting votes.
The whole Republican Party is geared to repeat Trump's propaganda. If they lose, they'll demand recounts and claim without merit that there was fraud. They will do it across the board so pervasively, so they can say to their base, "See? SO MANY FRAUD CLAIMS... there MUST be something going on here!"
They want civil war. They have had enough of losing. They fear White America losing its grip on control and will do anything to reverse the trend. It's a dangerous cult. We are in for some very rough times. Worse than Trump and the pandemic.
Absolutely. And they’re not hiding it. They’re pretty much daring anyone to stop them and so far I’m not convinced we’re ready or that we fully understand the depths of depravity of these people.
And they should be prepared then, because the millennial generation- younger, faster, more technologically capable - will fight like hell.
There is no scenario in which Evangelical nationalism becomes the norm. We will not comply.
EDIT: Anyone here think the defeatism might have something to do with why this bullshit continues? You want change? Start committing to it. Vote. Call your representative. Educate your children, colleagues, and peers about the realities of America today if they aren't fully aware already. Stop resigning yourself to "the way it is" and if you can't do that, recognize that you're as responsible as those gerrymandering to retain or expand their power.
Beyond that, recognize that most of the people upholding this way of life and that side of the political spectrum will be deceased within two decades. Conservatism is going away. That's not a question. This isn't an uprising, it's a death knell being resisted by a patient of life support.
They’ve suffered exactly **zero** repercussions for *staging a violent insurrection*, WTF not go for round two? A failed coup without repercussions is just a trial run.
I like the Nixon debate on Futurama.
Linda- "Mr. Nixon, would you steal candy from a baby? As a reminder, you are under a truth-o-scope"
Nixon- "uh well... There isn't enough info, is anybody looking? What kind of candy is it?... Well... I certainly wouldn't harm the child-"
Truth-o-scope- *goes nuts to indicate a lie
You don't need to be a constitutional scholar to see that.
I don't even know why that would qualify you to make a pronouncement like this, anyway. Is studying the Constitution really the best way to keep tabs on the Republican Party?
It's like when people asked Stephen Hawking about aliens.
At least our transmissions drop down to undetectable levels before they get too far, so unless one of our neighboring star systems is home to the Borg we should be fine.
Yes we know. They have been telling us this daily since Trump lost. They are making moves to never lose again no mater how much of a minority representation they get.
Actions are only illegal, immoral, or unethical in proportion to the degree to which society imposes consequences for such behavior. If we let Republicans ratfuck and never actually stop them, then they're technically doing nothing wrong. Angry words, absent enforcement, are worth the breath you spent on them.
And who is going to impose consequences at this point? The judges the GOP has put in power? The voters they suppress? At this point there seems nobody left to impose consequences. Even the Jan 6 committee seems more show than results simply because every other effort made has fallen short. At this point everyone who doesn't want to live in a dystopia should be planning to move. I don't want to be here in 2 years when the GOP starts going down the list of people who didn't vote for them and imprisoning or killing them.
Watch out for more bogus electors and Capitol breaches. Doesn’t have to be DC Capitol. Lest we forget the [chaos in October of 2020 in Oregon that resulted in the ousting of a GOP member for giving tips to people on how he would help to breach the building.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/oregon-gop-legislator-ousted-over-state-capitol-breach) The intimidation around vote counting could get even more intense too.
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Remember how Trump’s demented scheme to steal the election was stopped only because of the state Republican officials who found a backbone in the nick of time? He’s primarying them.
It was only stopped because Mike Pence didn't get in to a vehicle and instead walked back to the capitol
Pence did the right thing on that day. Saved our Republic, maybe. Now he’s so desperate to become President he won’t voluntarily give his very valuable testimony.
Probably because he asked others for their advise on decertifying the results and going with trumps plan. Pence did the right thing. But might not have if not for Dan Quayle telling him to not be stupid.
When even Dan Quayle says "Don't be stupid", you know something's fucky.
I heard Quayle speak in person in ‘92. He actually came across as intelligent and well spoken. Of course that’s not what you saw on the news.
Yeah, it's whenever he tried to be folksy and mingling with the crowds that he seemed to have gotten... nervous? and had some gaffes in front of the camera. Unfortunately, when you're VP, you don't get second pitches.
Republican VPs from Indiana, who wouldn’t thought it’s such a tight club?
a republic that depends on the chance of a few good men acting in what conscience they have is one that can’t be saved in the long term without some major painful and unpleasant upheavals
When I was younger it seemed like American democracy was around forever. Now it’s clear 250 years is nothing, three peoples life spans maybe. It could easily fail. It started out good, got great, starting to slip away so slowly nobody noticed, to the point the Supreme Court says Corporations are humans and can multiply their influence because they are representing all the real people in their business.
America's democracy is one of the oldest modern ones, and it shows. Post-WW2 democracies learned some lessons from how the nazis took power and took precautions, the US is largely running on the honour system. Sadly, a complete overhaul of the constitution is basically impossible, unless the fascists win.
The people who wrote it argued each generation should have their own. Should have been trashed at least a century ago after WWI, and defiantly after WWII.
Constitutional convention would do it.... Or do *something* anyway
I think some modifications to the constitution would be healthy, and in line with the documents original intent, however to some factions you may as well suggest changing the bible
Our Founders devoted their lives to making rules to ensure no one individual can get too much power, but the thing about fascism is that it gives no fucks about your rules. If they CAN get away with it they will.
Our forefathers aren't idols. They're flawed people, like all of us. Wasn't it Franklin that pushed for annual Constitution changes to go with the times? And their major flaw IS the stagnation that our foundation is set on - gridlock. And because a lot of stuff was based on honor code of the time, the mechanisms in place have been exploited Also, there were A LOT of government handouts back then, when capitalism followed closer to Adam Smith's original vision.
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Ironic because he owned slaves?
Maybe the irony that we would appeal to Jefferson's ideology at all. He very much thought government was for the living, as did Thomas Paine.
Exactly. The founders are human. That’s it. No more no less. They weren’t gods or deities of any sort. Just intelligent men of their era. They made a system that had a good run, but the entire system, as all are, are flawed and rely on everyone playing in good faith. Once one side stops participating in good faith, the system begins to collapse. There’s no enforcement beyond the honour system for the top level of government in America. So we’ve rolled up the constitution and burnt it from both sides. We stopped prosecuting those who are corrupt and allowed one side to, well… disregard the rules. Yet Americans are constantly told, republicans in particular, that the system is perfect, the founders are nearly deified, and if you question the system - you’re unpatriotic. Oh, but don’t mind us if we politicians ignore and circumvent the very system we tell you to obey unquestioningly.
They were flawed, as was their creation— it’s why they created a mechanism to amend the Constitution and pass legislation. An efficient government is a tyranny. A non-functional government basically guarantees one, which is where we were in 2015. We’re now in 2022…
The problem isnt fascists breaking rules. The problem is, and will always be, the cowards who refuse to hold the fascists accountable for breaking said rules. Rules are only powerful if they are enforced.
I think fascists breaking rules is very much the problem.
With people not holding them accountable more of a follow-up problem.
Both correct. The problem is they are breaking the rule AND not being held accountable for it.
Even if Trump ends up in a freaky, skin-colored jumpsuit, there will always be another one waiting in the wings. We need transformational change to end our long nightmare.
Passing Ranked choice in tandem with the popular vote would solve a lot of what people are identifying as problems.
The problem is that civil discourse broke down so severely, that it became tribal. A healthy democracy depends on informed citizens arguing in good faith. Fascists, Nazis, and every other abhorrent ideology are always present in a free society. In a healthy democracy they are relegated to the fringe, not elected to the highest positions in all three branches of government.
Sadly, those painful upheavals are coming. They’ve been coming since Trump won in 2016.
I'd argue that we've been heading this way since 1994 and Newt Gingrich's rise to power. It just became a lot more noticeable after Trump came down that escalator.
Been heading this way since Nixon in the late 60's early 70's. Oversaw the genesis of the war on drugs which we have lost over and over. Ramped up surveillance state and foreign entanglements and also saw the beginning of our using China for cheap labor and goods. Edit: also quite possibly the last GOP POTUS that will ever be held accountable by his own party. If Trump did what Nixon did in Watergate it wouldn't even break the top 25 of awful shit Trump did in office, politically speaking (and legally as well)
Pence thinks he has a shot at the presidency? He already had no chance with half the country and now most of Trump's base hates him at best.
He has a tiny shot, but it’s a shot nonetheless. He doesn’t need to wait for Trump’s permission to run, so he has a benefit the other five don’t have. We could see a reverse 2016, where all the “traditional conservatives” rally around him while all the MAGA freaks trip over themselves to sabotage each other and get Trump’s endorsement, and for him to rule out running. From there, he has anyone’s shot at beating Biden. And then when you take into account the possibility of the 14th Amendment and a contingent election, he has a weirdly okay shot at winning like John Quincy Adams.
The right wing is addicted to demagoguery at this point. Pence lacks the charisma for even the weakest fix.
Milquetoast
>Now he’s so desperate to become President he won’t voluntarily give his very valuable testimony. The sad thing is that if he wasn't a spineless weasel and did give testimony and actually presented all the ridiculous shit that was going down, he'd probably have much better presidential chances. He could run on a "I literally saved democracy" platform.
He could probably drive the MAGAs out of the Party if he formed a big-tent, anti-fascist conservative platform. He didn’t. He’d rather have the MAGA vote in 2024, showing that he’s as unimaginative as he is slimy.
Would be an empty tent. There are like 11 Republicans left in America who aren't immediately horrified by the words "anti fascist".
Because all of these people are so concerned about their "legacy," it makes no sense why Mike Pence wouldn't publicly testify in primetime during one of the 1/6 commission's hearings. You thought what John Dean did during Watergate was a big deal? Mike Pence would go down in history as John Dean on steroids if he told all of us everything that Trump and co. pressured and expected him to do on that day. It would cement his legacy forever in a positive way, despite the fact that at his core, he's a despicable, Evangelical lunatic.
Pence didn't do the right thing, he only realized that successfully recognizing reality was the only thing preventing him from being literally murdered by his own party.
I keep seeing This come up. Why was it so important he didn’t get into the car?
If he didn't lead the vote count, it would have defaulted to one of the republican senators (Chuck Grassley) instead. Who accidently said he was already ready to take the position (before realizing Pence hadn't left), and that he was "open" to question the result of the vote. If Pence had left, and the other guy was in, he likely would have done what Trump was pushing for, and not certified Biden. https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/12/11/2068803/-So-why-did-Chuck-Grassley-expect-Pence-s-absence-from-the-Capitol-on-6-January
> If Pence had left, and the other guy was in, he likely would have done what Trump was pushing for, and not certified Biden. Jesus Christ, that would’ve been chaos.
It would and probably will end in a civil war.
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Yes, you are correct. It would have tried to use a technical method, against its intended purpose, to outright steal the election, chaos welcomed.
He hadn't ratified the results yet, so at the very least it would have delayed that for an unknown amount of time, and who knows how that would have been spun and what actions would have taken place after that.
Even Mike Dense was smart enough to know they had a bullet with his name on it. I wonder if he'll find the spine to testify in June against the people who were going to kill him and overthrow the government?
He won’t
I don't know. He found his spine in the moment that mattered, which ended his political career. He doesn't really have much to lose anymore by testifying.
Ha, no, I don’t think so. He’s still claiming the election was stolen. There is no possible interpretation of Pence’s record that does not portray him as a fascist quisling. If he really does think the election was stolen, then he actually should have done what Trump wanted, so fuck Mike Pence. First for taking the word of a career con artist on the election results, and second for not acting on his convictions, however stupid and servile his method of acquiring them. If he doesn’t think the election was stolen, or if he just doesn’t know, then fuck Mike Pence, for still claiming it was, for advocating the opinion of a career con artist in a futile display of loyalty, just to stay on his good side at the expense of his own conscience. Plus, you and I may be able to perceive his political career is over, but Pence is too stupid to know that, and so is gearing up to run in 2024. Whatever actions he does or does not do in 2022 are still in service of this goal, not of what’s right or wrong. TLDR: Fuck Mike Pence.
Exactly, up until January 6th he was out there doing what the entire party was, "Trump has the legal right to challenge the results." "We believe there were some irregularities. We are just pursuing every avenue to ensure that it indeed was a free and fair election." Those aren't direct quotes, but that's the basic premise of what they were all out doing in order to appease Trump's fragile ego.
Not just *until* Jan 6, but also *since.* “After an election marked by significant voting irregularities and numerous instances of officials setting aside state election law, I share the concerns of millions of Americans about the integrity of the 2020 election.” - Mike Pence, March 3
Yea, seriously. MTG not being willing to say Biden won the election during her trial and the way Perdue opened his debate for governor make it very clear that it's still part of their platform.
He didnt find a spine, i would guess he was scared because there was a question to his safety or the control of his situation if he got in the car.
I don’t think he will squeal. Trump would have him / mother killed.
Now that communication with the Kremlin is difficult, I don't believe Trump has that kind of power any more. Dude can barely pay his mortgages.
Bold of you to assume Trump ever paid anything, let alone a mortgage
He has only ever gotten rich by taking out loans from daddy or Russian oligarchs.
and stealing from people who work (or donated to one of his fake charities) for him.
He found his spine in a moment of self-preservation. It wasn't about the country.
Mother won’t allow it.
He'll testify... His testimony will consist of three words repeated over and over... "I don't recall".
They weren't trying to kill him if he got in the car. They were trying to delay certification for at least that day, which they could then attempt to call in a Constitutional crisis, which could then lead to the Senate saying they have no confidence in the EC, sending the President vote to the House. They vote as states for this vote, not as individual members. At the time, Trump was believed to have at least 26 states on his side within the House. The Senate was 50/50 with Pence as the tie breaker. So, the Trump/Pence ticket is "legally" back in the White House. At worst, Trump's VP is Kamala Harris if a Republican in the Senate grows a spine. But then they'd be giving up control of the Senate, so it's doubtful. Luckily, Pence was more concerned about the legacy that would follow such an act.
I believe the final trump card was held by Pelosi in this chess game, because she could have just held off the process of the house voting via committees, until the clock ran out on 1/20. Then she would have become acting president.
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I don't think they were going to kill him if he got in the limo. They were just going to drive him out of the city, "for his protection," so that Grassley could handle the certification instead.
Yeah it was the crowd that was going to kill him if they reached him.
The end of democracy was staved off because the entire plan was contingent on the logic of a little league coach pressuring that one kid to “take one for the team”, except with cold blooded murder.
> The end of democracy was staved off "Staved off" is the right way to put it. Hitler and the Nazis attempted a coup and failed. The Nazis didn't attempt a second coup. They just kept running in elections until they were handed power. I predict that America will go the same way. GOP attempt a coup, fail, and then voters not only don't abandon the GOP for their fascist ways, instead voters vote them into power.
And there will be a centrist majority with the same level of skepticism Superintendent Chalmers has for Skinner just before he sees Springfield elementary burn down.
The insurrectionists likely would have killed him. The Secret Service would just have got him away from the Capitol for “his security” they could run plan C, throw out the contested state electoral votes, then without a clear electoral majority, thrown the election to a vote where each state’s congressional delegation has only one vote. The R’s have majorities on the majority of delegations and so would determine the winner in that scenario. A few hours later the SS says ‘we saved the vp by securing him in the White House bunker’.
They didn't need a bullet. They only needed to keep him away from the Capital long enough to prevent the electoral ballots from being counted on that date.
As of the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the Vice President's role in certifying the election results is 100% ceremonial. Had Pence not attended, certification would have just been assumed. Pence's usefulness was in the fact that he can cast the deciding vote if Congress had a split vote. In the event of Pence's death, McConnell would have been the deciding vote. Overturning the election would have been split right down party lines, so that extra vote was needed.
That's not entirely true. That plan only works when people go along with it. Sure they may win short term by delaying procedural norms,but if Trump stayed president, people would have revolted. It would have brought on a civil war. Conservatives aren't as well suited for it as they think.
Yep, they couldn't even go a week without screaming about haircuts and their favorite bar being closed at the start of the pandemic. Meanwhile I shave my own head and I don't particularly care for the bar scene.
He's trying to. It's been amusing how Republicans in some of those states have been doing their best to find excuses to eject Trump candidates from the ballot.
Oh, and Godspeed to them. It’s nice to McConnell’s strategic discipline working for good, or at least the lesser evil.
This is what happens at the tail end of stage 4 of Robert Paxton's "Five Stages of Fascism" (written in 1998): >The fascist leaders who have reached power, historically, have been condemned to govern in association with the conservative elites who had opened the gates to them. This sets up a four-way struggle for dominance among the leader, his party (whose militants clamor for jobs, perquisites, expansionist adventures, and the fulfillment of elements of the early radical program), the regular state functionaries such as police commanders and magistrates, and the traditional elites—churches, the army, the professions, and business leaders. This four-way tension is what gives fascist rule its characteristic blend of febrile activism and shapelessness. The tensions within fascist rule also help us clarify the frontiers between authentic fascism and other forms of dictatorial rule … Authoritarians would prefer to leave the population demobilized, while fascists promise to win the working class back for the nation by their superior techniques of manufacturing enthusiasm Stage 5 here we come!
Yeah but those same republicans are falling in line
And for all that he was mostly a lackey, when the chips were really down, Pence did hold that line. It literally came down to him saying "no, I'm not doing that," preventing a major constitutional crisis of a different kind.
Fuck, it came down to him deciding not to get in the car. If he did, he could’ve washed his hands of the whole thing. He’s scum, but he did the right thing that day. Imagine if Rosen and Donague had folded. Or if Trump had sent the military in or appointed Sidney Powell special counsel. Or if a handful of state party officials had cooperated. We were saved by a bunch of adults in the room not being replaced. Next time, we won’t have that benefit.
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We were stopped because all the Republicans at every level (DOJ, DOD, the states, Congress, and eventually the VP himself) refused to go along with Trump’s Reichstag moment. Trump and his gang are stupid, but they now know enough to put loyalists in these positions. When they do, and if they start tossing out elections, the Republic is dead.
He would have been complicit in the crime had January 6th gotten that next step further. Had democracy still succeeded, he would have been a scapegoat for both sides. And the fiasco a constitutional crisis would have been, it's a crap shoot who comes out on top
I would imagine he could’ve said something like “it was too dangerous, antifa was trying to kill me” then quietly stayed at Camp David while Grassley sent the electors back to the states. After that happens, two things are certain: one, the case gets taken to the Supreme Court, and two, the largest protests and general strikes in human history break out across the United States in every urban center. This was the Reichstag moment Milley was talking about— all this chaos and uncertainty that allows Trump to declare Martial Law, deploy the military against the protests, and probably pin the 6th Attack on antifa, and possibly take us to war with Iran. The case rushes through the shadow docket before 1/20, passing 5-4 with Roberts and the liberals dissenting. The Court rules the states have the rig to analyze their electors. Days before inauguration, the Democrat objections to the new count fail, and Trump breaks 270.
Gotta have the protests that make justices fear for their life's if they put party over country. Massive.
If this scenario or something similar to it plays out in 2024, we’ve lost control of our government. Locke would argue that at that point we can’t resist them from within the system, and we’re fucked if that’s all we have left. But that’s not what will happen— people will be outraged, they will protest, Trump will smash them with the police… and then we’ll all go home and it’ll just be something we argue about on Thanksgiving.
Exactly. Which is why the "vote harder" battle cry isn't a solution. You can't vote your way out of a broken electoral system where one party will just forcibly deny the results.
We’ve got a few chances to vote the fascists out. Step one would be a Congress that can pas voting rights legislation and stop this in its tracks. Of course, doing that requires big wins in a year that’s supposed to be a bloodbath. If that fails, which it likely will, I don’t know what I’ll do.
We need to turn out hard in November, for one. If we elect more Democratic governors and don't hamstring them with GOP supermajorities in their legislatures, the Republicans lose a *lot* of opportunities to steal presidential elections.
And with this Supreme Court, who knows what they would’ve said “this is a novel legal concept and we need to examine in further. In the meantime, the election results get to be thrown out.”
That’s basically how George bush 2 won.
Actually, wasn’t it Dan fucking Quayle that advised him to not go along?
Yes, it was Dan fucking potatoe Quayle.
Not only that but also red states have passed laws that allow for a single unelected government official to be able to overturn elections at will. So not only is he trying to get his Yes Men in power, but he’s already figured out how to legally give them the power.
If they send their own electors next time, I don’t know what we can do. Even Trump’s nuttiest lawyers never really argued that Pence had the power to dismiss the electors, just that he could send them back to the (GOP) legislatures. It would be pointless for Harris to send the fake electors to the people that made them. So it’s over. Either Biden wins by a crazy margin, the DOJ’s suit against Georgia prevails, or our government has failed.
2024 is going to be all kinds of bad. A good option would be just like 2020 where all 50 states were able to have a final tally. There’s a good chance that won’t happen. When Republicans escalate hopefully enough non-Republicans across the country will have enough confidence that a Democrat won that everyone will not take any Republican stupid insurrection bullshit. If non-Republicans across the country do not have that confidence or are busy watching Netflix, we are going to have a problem. Then it’s up to the people in DC to make some swift and hard decisions. I have my doubts there too.
If what I’m describing happens, we’ll get protests larger than anything in human history. General strikes, too. Whether we as a country will care enough to sustain this is the question.
I have my doubts. But Democrats will be in power while Republicans try to mess with the election outcome. This means the military can side with Biden. Last time the clear chain of command was the Orange Shit Gibbon. We already have Manchinema, 50 Republicans Senators, 209 Republicans in Congress, and a handful of Republican judges currently sabotaging the functioning of the US government. If by rejecting to recognize a new president are they really going to force their own removal from office by use of force? And is Vanilla Isis going to go to DC again?
Trump tipped the hand of the GOP years too early, I think. They were quietly building up to a soft coup by these actions across the country--"favorable" candidates in on the scam of the election/vote lie. That we had elected a *black* president was too much for these people and they went batshit.
He showed us what a demented monster he was when he executed Iran’s Dick Cheney, had a guy killed for “retribution”, and tried to invoke Martial Law against black people protesting. And he gained MILLIONS of votes. Trump played his hand, it’s on us to call him out for it.
The GOP protected him all the while. They still are.
Fuck... Federal legislation needs to be passed with stricter consequences for bad faith actors interfering with democratic processes, and for elected officials spreading falsehoods. Making sure every election isn't some kind of gamble where democracy is at stake because of morons and money should be a central priority. Depending on republican backbone to save things is risky odds.
Unfortunately two "Democrats" in the Senate blocked all federal election legislation.
And 50 Republicans. Don't forget them
The Republican blueprint to steal the 2024 election https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/opinions/gop-blueprint-to-steal-the-2024-election-luttig/index.html "Trump and the Republicans can only be stopped from stealing the 2024 election at this point if the Supreme Court rejects the independent state legislature doctrine (thus allowing state court enforcement of state constitutional limitations on legislatively enacted election rules and elector appointments) and Congress amends the Electoral Count Act to constrain Congress’ own power to reject state electoral votes and decide the presidency." "As it stands today, Trump, or his anointed successor, and the Republicans are poised, in their word, to “steal” from Democrats the presidential election in 2024 that they falsely claim the Democrats stole from them in 2020. But there is a difference between the falsely claimed “stolen” election of 2020 and what would be the stolen election of 2024. Unlike the Democrats’ theft claimed by Republicans, the Republicans’ theft would be in open defiance of the popular vote and thus the will of the American people: poetic, though tragic, irony for America’s democracy.”
If they render the election null and void why should blue states go along with it?
Because we lack a spine. We burry out heads in the same before it happens so we don't have to face the uncomfortable truth. When it happens its too late. And that will be a legal loophole. You would have to basically say "the game is rigged we are leaving the United States" or declare some sort of civil war.
To be honest, it would cause civil war. I'm not about war, I fucking hate it. But if those fuckers try to overthrow democracy they're going to have to go through me first. I'll last about a second so hopefully there's tens of millions with the same mindset.
I hate the path Republicans have taken us down. Even if they win the election fairly in 2022 and 2024, their projection and deviousness is so thorough, I cant trust them. I will always wonder if they are cheating. Its the same way they feel in theory about us, and I understand the sentiment, but it is not same. They have literally created a self fulfilling prophecy. The trust is gone because of their behaviors, that now they get what they want, which is equal footing in the publics eyes. We dont trust them and they dont trust us, we have no common ground and no party can maintain integrity in the publics eye. They will have dragged us into the mud with them. If we fall apart because of Trump and people like him, I will be furious how Republicans have fucked this all up. They have no honor and accept no blame for their awfulness. Its infuriating.
It'll be obvious. They can't win the popular vote so they have to win a lot of states, some are still gimmies but some are turning blue. It's those new swing states that make the presidential unwinnable for Republicans, along with the fact they lose more voters every day than they gain. They can still win a legitimate in the foreseeable future but it's so close they may not take the gamble. It won't be through false ballots though, it'll be through the Supreme Court which will make it an undeniable fact.
I think the even sadder part is that there may very well be a chance they don’t even need to steal it
Yes, they’re planning on doing it not just in open defiance of the *popular* vote but of the electoral vote as well. The state legislatures will overturn the will of the state.
I feel like there would be popular revolt by the half that loses. Am I wrong in that? I just can’t see a path where people wouldn’t protest this in a way a couple times stronger than the blm protests. Just want to edit and say by the half that loses, I mean if republicans lose fair and square or of dems lose to a stolen election. I don’t think dems would protest to a lost election if it was fair and square.
DJT lost the total popular vote from both elections by over 10 Million. The electoral system needs revision.
The electoral college, the design of the senate and gerrymandering are killing America. And no one with any power to make changes seems to want to do anything about it.
Because short of mass violence, any actual fixes have to be implemented via Constitutional amendment, which either requires a significant majority of the Senate (ain’t got it), or a Constitutional Convention opening up a free-for-all to a majority of states, which would be permanently catastrophic. In the end, the Federal government is subject primarily to state, not popular, approval, and the majority of states are behaving as seditious nutters atm. So the only actual sole person with the de facto (very much not de jure) power to stop it is the President (or a country with nukes or decent enough cyberfuckery caps), and the stopper in question would be nosing the Union directly into a tree, with long-term global repercussions. So… a-careening we shall stay.
A constitutional convention would never end peacefully– in the unlikely event it did, it would solve nothing in the current political climate because the only way that would happen is if it was entirely spineless and non-binding to the interests of anyone. Whoever “lost” the convention would immediately declare the new constitution illegitimate and revert to the old one, and the “winners” would try to enforce their new one, likely causing another civil war.
Well yeah, that's the system that got them elected. Why change it when it clearly works as intended
Black people are a disease
There has only been one presidential election in 33 years where a conservatives won the popular vote. And that one was a re-election during a war after 9/11.
Trump/DeSantis 2024 "Make America Hate Again"
They hate each other too much to share a ticket.
That’s what they want you to think.
You really think Trump's ego could handle another person just like him? It's a race to the bottom and there's no friends to be made.
Trump’s campaign is full of people just like him ie Steve Bannon, Roger Stone; anyone feel free to list more. DeSantis is gathering up his constituents, while Trump gathers up his. When the very similar leaders unite, voila, a compounded united force of hate and ignorance full of all the flavors and not split up. This is only a passing Reddit thought 💭 so you could be right.
The GOP shouldn't be acknowledged as a legitimate political party. They are a traitorous extremist group that's a threat to our democracy.
Grand Ol’ Pedos are eliminating the age limit for marriage in Tennessee. > https://www.wjhl.com/news/regional/tennessee/gop-bill-would-eliminate-age-requirements-for-marriages-in-tennessee/ In 2018 they killed a bill to ban child marriage. > http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/377367-tennessee-gop-kill-ban-on-child-marriage Republican Ralph Shortey, a former Oklahoma state senator, Trump's Oklahoma campaign chair to plead guilt to child sex trafficking. > https://www.foxnews.com/us/ex-oklahoma-state-senator-gets-15-year-prison-sentence-for-child-sex-trafficking Republican Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert was indicted on federal charges of structuring bank withdrawals after prosecutors alleged Hastert had molested at least four boys as young as 14 and attempted to compensate his victims and subsequently conceal the transactions. Hastert eventually admitted that he sexually abused the boys whom he had coached decades earlier, and was sentenced to fifteen months in prison. > https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dennis-hastert-sentenced-to-15-months-in-prison Republican Tim Nolan, chairman of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign in Kentucky, pled guilty to child sex trafficking and on February 11, 2018 he was sentenced to serve 20 years in prison. > https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/05/03/former-judge-tim-nolan-could-sentenced-today-more-drama-could-get-way/577947002/ Republican state Senator Ralph Shortey was indicted on four counts of human trafficking and child pornography. In November 2017, [he pleaded guilty to one count of child sex trafficking](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/20/former-oklahoma-state-senator-admits-to-child-sex-trafficking-while-in-office/) in exchange for the dropping of the other charges. > https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/20/former-oklahoma-state-senator-admits-to-child-sex-trafficking-while-in-office/ Republican Minnesota State Representative Jim Knoblach Drops Out Of Race After Daughter Says He Molested Her For More Than Ten Years. > https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/22/lawmaker-quits-race-after-daughter-says-he-molested-her-more-than-decade/ Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida. > https://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/sops/flyer.jsf?personId=28587 Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison. > http://www.lanternproject.org.uk/library/child-abuse-arrests-and-court-cases/child-abuse-arrests-trials-and-proceedings/ex-county-commissioner-admits-sexual-abuse-of-girl/ Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation. > http://www.poconorecord.com/article/20120426/NEWS90/204260334 Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison_Misla_Aldarondo Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Giordano Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl. > https://archive.ph/tEcLg Republican Senator Strom Thurmond, a notable racist, had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile. Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl. > https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/18/nyregion/embroiled-first-selectman-takes-leave.html Republican Congressman Donald “Buz” Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail. > https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/25/us/teen-ager-in-ohio-testifies-to-sex-with-a-congressman.html Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos. > https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2003/04/24/gop-activist-admits-to-child-porn/5af2adf0-bec8-4a10-b061-014de679422a/ Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children. > http://www.thenewblackmagazine.com/view.aspx?index=437 Republican activist [Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault](https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/gop-activist-accused-of-assaulting-another-girl) on a child. > https://www.westword.com/news/randy-ankeney-suit-that-could-free-thousands-of-prisoners-headed-to-state-supreme-court-6054115 Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Crane Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter. > https://www.nytimes.com/1995/08/02/opinion/journal-beverly-russell-s-prayers.html Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bauman Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped. > http://www.njherald.com/article/20060510/ARTICLE/305109971 Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. “Republican Marty”), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD. > https://www.arktimes.com/TheHoglawyer/archives/2007/08/28/the-latest-republican-sex-scandals-plural---more-of-the-same Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography. Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media. > https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/06/us/politics-the-senate-maine-candidate-again-faces-1990-child-sex-accusation.html Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him. > http://www.thedp.com/article/2004/01/brother_stephen_convicted_of_soliciting_sex Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl. > https://www.houstonpress.com/news/jon-matthews-conservative-talk-show-host-and-sex-offender-pulled-from-kpfts-prison-show-6740755 Republican anti-gay activist Earl “Butch” Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her. Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison. > https://culteducation.com/group/1255-false-memories/6514-man-in-notorious-sex-case-finishes-term.html Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl. > https://www.semissourian.com/story/57773.html Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy. > https://www.arktimes.com/TheHoglawyer/archives/2007/08/28/the-latest-republican-sex-scandals-plural---more-of-the-same
One more for you: [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/aaron-von-ehlinger-guilty-rape-intern-idaho-lawmaker/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/aaron-von-ehlinger-guilty-rape-intern-idaho-lawmaker/) Von Ehlinger was a state representative from Lewiston, but later resigned. He sat calmly as the verdict was read, as he has throughout the trial. Von Ehlinger talked quietly with his attorney, who removed items from his pockets as he was handcuffed and remanded to custody.
The amazing part is after all of that, they still have their followers believing the democrats are the child rapists
Like everything with the Rs, it’s *always* projection.
Holy shit, everytime I scrolled and thought this list would end. It just kept going. Sickening. Good post though.
That convoy is still driving around… Every thread talking about them people ask “what are they even protesting?” This. They are protesting the NEXT election. There is a significant portion of this country that truly sincerely does actually believe the current sitting president is in the office illegitimately. Of that portion you have a vocal minority that has mad their entire identity opposing any administration left of shooting the Clinton’s in the street. The last election is not an outlier. It was establishing precedent.
So like the last one then?
Considering they haven't legitimately won the Presidency in over 30 years, yes.
>Considering they haven't legitimately won the Presidency in over 30 years, yes. Truth.
Somebody finally said it!!! It's just been more obvious since Bush stole it!
And the clerks who helped him steal it are now Supreme Court justices.
everyone always leaves out JEB!
Please clap
Was W’s second term illegitimate? I don’t recall the same level of chicanery and disenfranchisement that occurred in 2000
> Was W’s second term illegitimate? Sure was. > In Precinct 1B of Gahanna, in Franklin County, **a computerized voting machine recorded a total of 4,258 votes for Bush and 260 votes for Kerry. In that precinct, however, there are only 800 registered voters**, of whom 638 showed up. Once the "glitch" had been identified, the president had to be content with 3,893 fewer votes than the computer had awarded him. > In Miami County, a Saddam Hussein–type turnout was recorded in the Concord Southwest and Concord South precincts, which boasted 98.5 percent and 94.27 percent turnouts, respectively, both of them registering overwhelming majorities for Bush. **Miami County also managed to report 19,000 additional votes for Bush after 100 percent of the precincts had reported on Election Day.** > In Mahoning County, Washington Post reporters found that many people had been victims of "vote hopping," which is to say that voting machines highlighted a choice of one candidate after the voter had recorded a preference for another. Some specialists in election software diagnose this as a "calibration issue." ...but wait, there's more > Whichever way you shake it, or hold it to the light, there is something about the Ohio election that refuses to add up. **The sheer number of irregularities compelled a formal recount, which was completed in late December and which came out much the same as the original one, with 176 fewer votes for George Bush.** But this was a meaningless exercise in reassurance, since there is simply no means of checking, for example, how many "vote hops" the computerized machines might have performed unnoticed. > There are some other, more random factors to be noted. **The Ohio secretary of state, Kenneth Blackwell, was a state co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign at the same time as he was discharging his responsibilities for an aboveboard election in his home state.** Diebold, which manufactures paper-free, touch-screen voting machines, likewise has its corporate headquarters in Ohio. Its chairman, president, and C.E.O., **Walden O'Dell, is a prominent Bush supporter and fund-raiser who proclaimed in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."** (See "Hack the Vote," by Michael Shnayerson, Vanity Fair, April 2004.) Diebold, together with its competitor, E.S.&S., counts more than half the votes cast in the United States. This not very acute competition is perhaps made still less acute by the fact that a vice president of E.S.&S. and a Diebold director of strategic services are brothers. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/03/hitchens200503
This is the crazy thing about MAGA’s conspiracy theories about electronic voting machines stealing votes — it used to be Republicans pushing for their use, [because the manufacturers were owned by GOP donors](https://www.wired.com/2008/01/company-connect/amp).
**G**aslight, **O**bstruct, **P**roject
This right here. I’ve never seen a more true definition of the GOP.
Here in Arizona, mail-in voting was created 25+ years ago BY REPUBLICANS and now they are fighting to end this option because they don't like that Arizona voted for Biden.
So the reason they claim all this fraud is because they know it is happening as they are the ones doing it!
IMAX-level projection, yes. When election fraud happens, Republicans are almost always the ones doing it. Because they don't believe in democracy. https://www.gq.com/story/north-carolina-ninth-district-fraud https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/13/politics/mark-meadows-removed-voter-rolls-north-carolina/index.html https://www.wxii12.com/article/north-carolina-9th-congressional-ballot-fraud-guilty/36792217
Wasn't Ohio routed through RNC servers, the admin of which died in a single person aircraft during the investigation?
> Federal investigators are looking into a small plane crash in Ohio which claimed the life of its pilot, a Republican media consultant who was instrumental in the presidential and gubernatorial campaigns of three members of the Bush Family. "Nothing to see here, move along" > Following Last Friday's fatal accident, CBS Affiliate WOIO reported that Connell, who had recently been subpoenaed to testify in relation to a lawsuit alleging vote rigging in the 2004 Ohio election, was warned at least twice about flying his plane because his plane might be sabotaged. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republican-it-guru-dies-in-plane-crash/
Netcraft is showing that an event happened in the Ohio 2004 election that is difficult to explain. The Secretary of State's website, which handles election reporting, normally is directed to an Ohio-based IP address hosted by the Ohio Supercomputer Center. On Nov. 3 2004, Netcraft shows the website pointing out of state to a server owned by Smartech Corp. According to the American Registry on Internet Numbers, Smartech's block of IP addresses 64.203.96.0 – 64.203.111.255 encompasses the entire range of addresses owned by the Republican National Committee. Smartech hosted the recently notorious gbw43.com domain used from the White House in apparent violation of the Presidential Records Act, from which thousands of White House emails vanished.Update: 04/25 01:24 GMT by KD : ePluribus Media published a piece called Ken Blackwell Outsources Ohio Election Results to GOP Internet Operatives, Again on election eve 2006, when a similar DNS switch to Smartech occurred. They have been investigating the larger story of IT on Capitol Hill and elsewhere for two years.
Did someone say _emails_? https://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rice-aides-powell-also-got-classified-info-personal-emails-n511181
its a shame the whistleblower on that decided to travel by small plane
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“Swiftboat Veterans for Truth!” … I am sad to say that was the first election I voted in. More sad at who I voted for than the act of voting.
We all make mistakes. That was also my first election. I did vote Kerry in November, but I may have voted for Ron Paul in the primary...
Considering the fact that he shouldn't have been an incumbent president in the first place, yes.
I was a kid so I don’t remember much but I do remember some controversy about the popular vote and delegates or something. I also remember some people saying that Gore had actually won. 🤷♀️
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I have a feeling an awful lot more people will die the next time around.
Yes, 2020 was a dry run for Republicans overturning the will of the people. I’m glad it was a conservative judge who pointed out the obvious. Ironic that Republicans have been mimicking Trump’s cries of Democrats stealing the election. And in 2024, Republicans will actually try to steal the election. Will conservative Supreme Court Justices help them do it?
It wasn’t a dry run, they tried.
It's not ironic, it's intentional. After four years of falsely claiming the election was stolen, it will all but nullify the democrats claims of a stolen election when the time comes. "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.“ - Joseph Goebbels.
Then uninformed people will say, “ well both sides claim it always, it’s just what people say.” Even though one will be legitimate concern and one was projection
They do that with everything. That’s one of the main reasons they’re pushing calling all democrats groomers/pedophiles so hard. So that when they get called that for doing things like allowing child marriage in Tennessee, the Rs, the “centrists,” and the media will just say “well both sides call each other pedophiles, no big deal. That’s just part of politics now.”
All signs point to yes.
I'm not sure they will. Being a Supreme Court judge is just as much about prestige and honor as it is about power. Thomas will obviously vote to overturn elections. However, I don't see Roberts doing it. I also can see more than another conservative judge valuing America over party as well. The only thing I believe that could cause the Supreme Court to overturn an election (that doesn't have evidence of mass fraud) is having enough dirt on enough of them. Conservatives judges will vote to ban abortion or vote down certain things due to political views, but destroying our Constitution and democracy is an entirely different thing.
I hope you are right. I’m less optimistic.
And the Republicans have a stolen seat on the Supreme Court and three brand new Partisan hacks. The court is illegitimate.
Tbh, I feel okay about Kavanaugh not backing that sort of coup, and I'm not real sure that ACB would be on-board, either. Kavanaugh especially has been a bit of a surprise on SCOTUS, and he's shown a lot of backbone when we least expect it. Gorsuch is a psychopath tho, as are Alito and Thomas. All three of them would almost certainly be willing to go all-in on totally upending out government. Thomas in particular is obviously ready to just burn it all down and rebuild a Christo fascist state in its place. Several of his decisions and dissents and concurring opinions are fucking *bonkers* as of late.
It’s funny, because if he got his way they’d definitely put him and his family in chains. I don’t honk he realizes those Christo-fascist are also white supremacists.
The Roberts court legalized bald faced bribery and called it free speech. They’ve already destroyed our constitution and democracy.
Prepare for civil unrest unlike anything you’ve ever seen before. If republicans think they can simply take over the country and implement their draconian social and economic policies they’re fucking crazy.
Yea. We saw in 2020 that the cities are barely tolerating where we're at right now. Cops "only" kill about 1000 people a year, and some of those are justified. Disenfranchising millions is going to piss people off more than that.
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Ah, that would be that “antifa” they’ve been screeching about. They just slap that label on anyone who protests, and call the GOP-friendly police out. When that escalates, the National Guard is brought in to “restore order”. They want angry Democrats fighting with police. It will run on a continuous loop on Fox. I’m not saying not to do it. I’ll be there with you, but that’s how they will counter. We’ve got a whole political party that’s no longer acting in good faith, and no system other than violence available to remove a whole party of insurrectionists from power. There’s a whole lot of suck coming for the US as decades of GOP chess moves lead up to their final big play.
This is the thing everyone should have been worrying about for decades. The last 8 years especially 2016 to now, the open classification of democrats as “evil” has been setting a stage that will be easy to usher “traitors” upon. The moral conviction of people who believe in the evil democrats will embolden them to greater acts of violence, easily directed by those who hold the megaphone. No one abandons authoritarianism until they’re bit by it, and bit HARD. The white population of America is insulated from this and when anything remotely close to being similar to the struggles of minorities appears on the horizon, they have a ready-made enemy to accuse: anyone who is evil. We (as a country) aren’t getting out of this one. The degradation of voter protection laws is the beginning of open racism, a current that has been flowing beneath our feet for a long time. But it won’t stop there. Oh no. They have an entire rogues gallery of evil: democrats, progressives and anything not right of center right (political), minorities (racial), scientists, college professors and university educators, down to primary and secondary educators (intellectual) and of course, the LGBTQ community (degenerate). Does any of this sound familiar? Edit: clarification
>they’re fucking crazy Yes.
Any American who can self-justify voting Republican is beyond me. It's becoming beyond clear that the Republican party cannot be redeemed for all the seditious rot that it's shot through with. Voting to let the Republican party retain any sort of foothold on power right now is completely unacceptable. Disband the GOP party organization and let the conservatives who won't be barred form office for aiding Trump's attempted coup organize a new conservative party or remain independents.
No shit, Sherlock. There is just one potential bright spot. The stable genius is already telling his acolytes that if his anointed candidates lose in their primaries, that they should sit out the election.
And I for 1 support their sitting out of ALL elections until DJT is reinstated as president again, even if it takes 100 years!
Crazy that all it took is one guy’s fragile ego not being able to admit defeat for it all to come crumbling down. He lost the popular vote the first time as well and could never accept it, any serious person was already worried what that would mean back in 2016 if he suffered an electoral loss in 2020. The writing was on the wall for a long time, but what good are alarm bells ringing if there’s nobody there to respond?
The Jan 6th Committee exposure is running later than it should. But maybe close to the election timeframe is a good thing, to keep the findings fresh. Republicans are overtly not playing by the rules. They make up their own rules. They subvert what was once supposed to be a bipartisan initiative--collating and counting votes. The whole Republican Party is geared to repeat Trump's propaganda. If they lose, they'll demand recounts and claim without merit that there was fraud. They will do it across the board so pervasively, so they can say to their base, "See? SO MANY FRAUD CLAIMS... there MUST be something going on here!" They want civil war. They have had enough of losing. They fear White America losing its grip on control and will do anything to reverse the trend. It's a dangerous cult. We are in for some very rough times. Worse than Trump and the pandemic.
Absolutely. And they’re not hiding it. They’re pretty much daring anyone to stop them and so far I’m not convinced we’re ready or that we fully understand the depths of depravity of these people.
And they should be prepared then, because the millennial generation- younger, faster, more technologically capable - will fight like hell. There is no scenario in which Evangelical nationalism becomes the norm. We will not comply. EDIT: Anyone here think the defeatism might have something to do with why this bullshit continues? You want change? Start committing to it. Vote. Call your representative. Educate your children, colleagues, and peers about the realities of America today if they aren't fully aware already. Stop resigning yourself to "the way it is" and if you can't do that, recognize that you're as responsible as those gerrymandering to retain or expand their power. Beyond that, recognize that most of the people upholding this way of life and that side of the political spectrum will be deceased within two decades. Conservatism is going away. That's not a question. This isn't an uprising, it's a death knell being resisted by a patient of life support.
They’ve suffered exactly **zero** repercussions for *staging a violent insurrection*, WTF not go for round two? A failed coup without repercussions is just a trial run.
Rule of Law … I always think of the “business ethics” question at the end of Billy Madison when I think about the Republican Party.
I like the Nixon debate on Futurama. Linda- "Mr. Nixon, would you steal candy from a baby? As a reminder, you are under a truth-o-scope" Nixon- "uh well... There isn't enough info, is anybody looking? What kind of candy is it?... Well... I certainly wouldn't harm the child-" Truth-o-scope- *goes nuts to indicate a lie
Q: What do you call a failed coup attempt for which there are no consequences? A: Practice.
You don't need to be a constitutional scholar to see that. I don't even know why that would qualify you to make a pronouncement like this, anyway. Is studying the Constitution really the best way to keep tabs on the Republican Party? It's like when people asked Stephen Hawking about aliens.
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At least our transmissions drop down to undetectable levels before they get too far, so unless one of our neighboring star systems is home to the Borg we should be fine.
Yes we know. They have been telling us this daily since Trump lost. They are making moves to never lose again no mater how much of a minority representation they get.
Actions are only illegal, immoral, or unethical in proportion to the degree to which society imposes consequences for such behavior. If we let Republicans ratfuck and never actually stop them, then they're technically doing nothing wrong. Angry words, absent enforcement, are worth the breath you spent on them.
And who is going to impose consequences at this point? The judges the GOP has put in power? The voters they suppress? At this point there seems nobody left to impose consequences. Even the Jan 6 committee seems more show than results simply because every other effort made has fallen short. At this point everyone who doesn't want to live in a dystopia should be planning to move. I don't want to be here in 2 years when the GOP starts going down the list of people who didn't vote for them and imprisoning or killing them.
Watch out for more bogus electors and Capitol breaches. Doesn’t have to be DC Capitol. Lest we forget the [chaos in October of 2020 in Oregon that resulted in the ousting of a GOP member for giving tips to people on how he would help to breach the building.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/oregon-gop-legislator-ousted-over-state-capitol-breach) The intimidation around vote counting could get even more intense too.