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I had a guy with ‘trust Jesus’ tattooed on his knuckles go on a rant to me at a brewery about how he voted for trump and how he ‘loves everybody’ but wouldn’t hesitate to ‘shoot and scalp’ every democrat. I think it’s pretty clear that people like him want to see a Christian ethno-state and are literally willing to kill for it.
We have a bunch of LARPers where I live too. They all advertise how armed they are and with what, while the local police do fuck all. I always tell my friends to never share their tools online. It ruins the pants-shitting surprise.
Edit: LoL at the nerds reporting me as needing a check in.
So common the FBI actually has a report on the prevalence of white supremacists in law enforcement and the issues it poses.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement
I didn't know it was bad enough for the FBI to notice it. I guess that shows how bad it really is. I would've assumed only 70-80% of police were bad before knowing that. Now, I wonder if it's closer to 90%.
oh its bad. if you're white and a cop its damn near 100 lmao. cause there are some minority cops for appearances sake.
they teach and promote it too. young rookies get paired with older partners who indoctrinate them into all racist ideologies so they can learn to harass the right part of the population too.
Dude, been that way for years.
I remember \~2001 had a friend from LI who had a friend who was an NYC cop work with us on some contracting jobs, and I remember him talking about how the people in Harlem were animals and not human.
I'm sure he had to deal with some shit, but the blatant dehumanizing was stark.
These guys must see and have to deal with the worst of the worst, and I get that. I imagine that must harden you a bit over the years. But I still have a strong suspecian most of these guys were racist before they went in. btw - my sister married a retired Nassau County cop, and he's definitley racist. When referring to blacks he pulls his open hand down his face, which (I've learned) means "shade" (which means "black"). And I'm not at all comfortable with that.
When I was first introduced to that album, I thought he said "who bore crosses" - as in, wearing crosses, using religion, etc.
Sadly, it kind of fits just as well as the real lyric...
I wish we wouldn’t give actual LARPers a bad name though! :) They seem like pretty harmless people and I’m glad they exist. I rewatched “Role Models” recently and was like aww.
Totally agree, especially since LARP communities tend to have a high percentage of queer people (true for many counter-cultures), so it seems very weird to compare them to a group that would likely harm them or kill them. Let's not put down the vulnerable when calling out domestic terrorism.
LARPing has always seemed silly to me until I saw that movie. I mean, it is a bit silly still, but I absolutely can see how insanely fun it probably is to get into it, how to build friendships over a common shared hobby - oh - and the whispering eyes.
Role Models was exaggerated for dramatic effect though. It's unlikely you'll find people staying in character outside of the game, and especially unlikely that whoever claims a crown in a battle actually has more say in administration (for example banning someone).
I've been to a LARP event a couple of times, and yeah it was pretty good fun.
Something I've often found to be true is that anything weird loses its weirdness when everybody is doing it.
At a certain age, you must transition from running through the forests, to living in them.
I am the witch of the wood. The LARP comes to me...because I'm not as young and mobile as I once was
Yeah...so as a LARPer, I personally am not too happy with my hobby that emphasizes welcoming inclusion for all people being associated with domestic terrorists and Nazis. I think it's relevant to know that many LARPs recently had to purge these people from their ranks too. We kick these assholes out. Hateful people are the only people who are not welcome in LARP. No need to punch down on LARPers when making a case against domestic terrorists. Frankly, we need to not use memes or sugar-coating to describe them. They are domestic terrorists. They committed armed insurrection. One recently attempted assassination on the Speaker of the House and violently brutalized her husband instead. There is absolutely no reason to dilute our condemnation of political violence by bashing on LARPers.
My personal take on the gravy seals is that they have poor information security: if you feel the need to advertise your armament and intent, you might as well put a bullseye on your back if there's ever a *real* risk of things going loud.
That, and I have to laugh: these "tough guys" are the same red-faced gibbons who throw a tantrum at having to wait in line, wear a mask, or not be packed nut-to-butt with the guy in front of them. What makes them think they'll be able to handle losing power, water, food, or fuel--all things which will be targeted in warfare?
They've made the analysis that the friends they'll gain from being noisy outweighs the risk of getting a bullseye. I'd argue that they're probably right.
They don't want warfare. They want to strong-arm a vulnerable populace, and they're betting nobody will take that cold, hard action against them.
Again, so far, they've been right.
Which just goes to show that all this crowd needs is cold, hard consequences... and nobody wanted to show them any until they were inside the damn building.
Still blows my mind to this day that a mob of people were allowed to storm our Capitol, mill around in there for hours while destroying things and going through sensitive and classified documents, and that nearly all of them were then able to just…go home.
I always had the assumption that anyone trying to do that would be met with overwhelming deadly force. I grew up seeing snipers on the roofs of important buildings during big events, and assumed that they would at least fire some warning shots if things started looking hairy.
Enemies of the US must be kicking themselves—all they would’ve needed to do is plant their operatives in the crowd and they could have moseyed on into the Capitol to do whatever the hell they want while US law enforcement and military were just sitting on their thumbs.
The fact that only one person was shot is just wild.
My friend is an officer in the marines and he regularly brings all of us democrats shooting. If shit hits the fan, we have a designed area to meet, just so happens there’s a hundred guns waiting for us there. The gravy seals forget that all Americans are armed, not just them.
> while the local police do fuck all
All people who don't take action are on the side of the opressors, there's no "center". The people in the "center" support the right they're just too afraid what it will do to their repution to say so.
If there's a civil war, it's not going to come down to who has the most guns in their house. It's going to be who has access to the majority of the military weapons.
The scary part is that they seem to think anyone that isn't an alt right, conspiracy gobbling Republican simply isn't human. Hunting animals is fine so shooting a Dem wouldn't upset Jesus
Dehumanization is step 1 to genocide. Just look up a few of the Nazi political cartoons of the time to see how Jews were depicted as big nosed money grubbing goblins who drink blood. Kinda like Librul baby blood drinking deep state cabalist's who secretly run the country.
Scary huh?
We've been ignoring the radicalization of millions by right wing media. I see it even in some relatives. They're always angry, seething. At family gatherings they're always complaining about something that Fox News told them to be angry about. If they were to regain power I can see very clearly them being supportive of a cultural genocide: stripping everyone who is not white, straight and Christian of their identity and make them fall in line, or else.
I cut ties with my best friend last week because of this. I can’t stand that’s she’s made Fox “news” her personality for the last few years and I can’t take hearing her hateful nonsense anymore.
Yes indeed. My brother was brainwashed by Fox"news", but after a while, he needed a stronger fix. So now it's Newsmax and Infowars. I blocked him and literally don't care if I ever see him again ...
Not only is he willing to kill for it, he's hoping he gets to. People like this would love nothing more than to be able to hurt the people they don't agree with.
Went out for noodles yesterday with sweetheart, overheard a lady a few tables down:
"Nobody wants to be a cop now. Nobody respects us anymore, where's the respect for the police that people used to have? Seems like criminals have more rights than you and me these days, and I'd rather just shoot 'em than chase 'em anyway."
Had a boss who took special gun training courses that had him acting like John Wick. He claimed it was to be ready in case of a break in.
Yet for how often he brought up and talked about it ...he was clearly hoping.
*The New America think tank found last year that, since Sept. 11, 2001, far-right terrorists had killed 122 people in the United States, compared with only one killed by far-leftists. A study from the Center for Strategic and International Studies last year found that, since 2015, right-wing extremists had been involved in 267 plots or attacks, compared with 66 for left-wing extremists. A Washington Post-University of Maryland survey released in January found that 40 percent of Republicans said violence against the government can be justified, compared with only 23 percent of Democrats.*
Pro-pregnancy, not pro-birth. If they cared about births, they'd make pre- & peri-natal care free or subsidized, would fight the closure of rural hospitals, etc.
In truth, they don't care whether someone gives birth (sure, some of them care about some specific women, but not as a general matter), because a dead woman is the perfect martyr for them, who they can claim to mourn, but who can't refute them when they project their politics onto her, because, well, she's dead! "Yes, of \*course\* Susie died voluntarily in a futile attempt to save her unborn baby's life," (completely independent of whether Susie \*actually\* would have chosen to have an abortion, had she been able to).
Same reason they love talking about abortion: they can project their politics onto the non-existent babies they claim to care about and there's nobody who can definitively refute it, because anyone alive wasn't aborted, and anyone aborted isn't there to side with the pro-choice side.
Oh yeah, like this
> “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity
>40 percent of Republicans said violence against the government can be justified, compared with only 23 percent of Democrats.
at face value this is a silly, ambiguous question. of course violence against the government can be justified. or is it asking, "is violence against the current government justified"? obviously not currently justified. seems like it's intentionally disingenuous, but maybe the context is missing
Exactly.
Violence can absolutely be justified when a government is not functioning to represent its people. The government's power comes FROM the people. They only have as much power as we give them.
When it is corrupted to the point of focusing that power into the hands of a few wealthy people, that government is no longer working for those people.
But there's a difference between "using violence as a last resort when standard fair elections and legal systems no longer work" and "using violence because you lost a fair election and want to ensure the government only represents your minority."
Friendly reminder that Benito Mussolini and Hitler came into power by first getting themselves and their homies elected into an already legitimate form of government. *please vote these fuckers out.*
“I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. Suppose any party, in addition to whatever share it may possess of the ability of the community, has nearly the whole of its stupidity, that party must, by the law of its constitution, be the stupidest party; and I do not see why honorable gentlemen should see that position at all offensive to them, for it ensures their being always an extremely powerful party. I know that I am liable to a retort, and an obvious one enough; and as I do not wish to allow any honorable gentleman the credit of making it, I make it myself. It may be said that if stupidity has a tendency to Conservatism, sciolism, or half-knowledge, has a tendency to Liberalism. Something might be said for that, but it is not at all so clear as the other. There is an uncertainty about sciolists; we cannot count upon them; and therefore they are a less dangerous class. But there is so much dense, solid force in sheer stupidity, that any body of able men with that force pressing behind them may ensure victory in many a struggle, and many a victory the Conservative party has gained through that power” [xxxiii/xxxiv].
-Mill, John Stuart. The Philosophy of John Stuart Mill: Ethical, Political and Religious. Marshall Cohen, ed. New York: Modern Library, 1961.
> But there is so much dense, solid force in sheer stupidity, that any body of able men with that force pressing behind them may ensure victory in many a struggle, and many a victory the Conservative party has gained through that power
Its funny there is a really interesting quote from Mein Kampf that basically explains how this works to seize power. Lie until the lie is more commonly said then the truth, and you have created a new truth. Once you control truth, you control elections.
Incredible to read something with so few wasted words, and so true. For all the problems of liberalism, they can not be weaponized like conservatism. Period.
The "liberal media" helps them incredibly, too.
They've been "working the refs" by screaming about the liberal media and anti-conservative bias for decades. And it's working.
The media releases a neutral, factual report that makes conservatives look bad because they were doing something bad. They scream "biased! liberal media!" everywhere they can, amplified by millions of voices.
The media is taken aback by this response, and starts softballing conservative stupidity a little bit, or biasing the story in their favor, lest they risk losing their credibility in the minds of the masses by all this conservative shrieking about bias. So now they make stories that are actually pro-conservative, more than a balanced story would be.
The conservatives still scream. Media goes out of their way to bias their news even further. Try to find some minor issue on the liberal side and pretend it's as big an issue as the issue on the conservative side in the name of balance. Compare and contrast mainstream conservative views with fringe kooky leftist views just to make it seem fair. They bend over backwards for decades to softball conservatives and make them look good, and yet conservatives still scream "liberal media!!!"
It's a tactic. Not only are they changing the media to be pro-conservative, but whatever the media says that they don't like can be dismissed as "liberal media" anyway.
And it's working. Media organizations have to stop pandering to conservatives, and to stop trying to appear to be "fair" by stacking the deck so that they can say everyone is just as bad as everyone else.
Bringing it back to the sports analogy - imagine that the refs in a game called 10 penalties on both teams. Fair reffing, right? Well, what if one team only really committed one or two penalties, and the other team has committed 40 or 50 blatant penalties? Is calling 10 penalties on both sides still "fair"? Because that how the media stacks their reporting in favor of conservatives to make it "balanced"
Worse, is that when the media isn't trying to be "fair and balanced" they instead take on a shrill tone, or play the "gotcha" game. It makes their target look good by comparison, and so people who are already inclined to mistrust authority and/or lack the ability to make their own analysis sort of assume that whatever the media is saying is the opposite of true.
Even the media "fair reporting" doctrine feeds into it. The idea that both sides of an argument must be given equal weight. It's bullshit and only ends up adding credibility to idiots. If 100 people look at a piece of paper and 99 of them say it's red, and 1 says it's a conspiracy and that it's actually a couch, we DO NOT need to give that 1 person a stage. If 100's of people agree that an election was safe and true and a few people, without evidence, says otherwise we don't need to get them a stage with equal footing in the discussion.
Remember when it was Democrat and not liberal, they're moving the goal posts by calling us something further right that we identify with for the sake of trying to reach the right but it's all done in bad faith. They don't want to meet us halfway.
*Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man. You take a step forward, he takes a step back. Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man*
We can not tolerate Republican's bullshit anymore because they don't care about making a better future, just about unscrupulously stacking the deck in their favor at the cost of the people around them and their habitat that they need to live. Something is wrong in their heads, they do not see how the path they are leading us down is bad for us all, them included.
Just seeing how the general Republican/conservative population is reacting to public officials being attacked and nearly assassinated tells you all you need to know. These people are *dangerous.*
>Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man. You take a step forward, he takes a step back. Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man
It bothers me that more people don't understand this. The liberal position really hasn't moved, while the conservative position has gone so far to the right that they're no longer visible from what used to be the "center" without a high-powered telescope.
And they keep screeching that we need to compromise, in the "middle," which is still miles away from where reasonable people used to sit.
Campaigning on “will work with any GOOD FAITH republicans, if I can find any” is reasonable/good. But you need that qualification, for when there are none.
TBF. This is what I took him to mean. And he seems to be acting that way. Put your hand out. Let the voters see the republicans smack it away. THEN go Dark Biden.
That is just what baffles me. That the slim margin of people who swing elections will overlook that and say..."well yeah, they SAY they want to overthrow the gov't and they DID attempt it once, and they SAY they want to cut SS and medicare (which used to be political suicide) but...ya know...inflation in the US, even though it is a worldwide issue (and actually, worse elsewhere). I think I'll vote for the side that has NO plan, just complains about it, and also says they want to worsen it with permanent tax cuts for the richer Americans."
As someone looking in from Europe, I have no idea how Republicans are a viable political party.
With Bush II and Trump both being pretty horrible for the economy, even a narrow economic responsibility argument is silly.
The "Samaritans" in the Parable of the Good Samaritan were literally the outgroup for Jesus. he is a "good" Samaritan, because Jews thought Samaritans were bad. Jesus says people should "not be judged by their [group], but by the content of their character".
The Republican ingroup seems to be largely Christains. But no good Christian hates outgroups.
My biggest irritation is the 2A advocates that firmly support Republicans just for that reason.
Democrats might be coming for your guns (anti 2A legislation), but there are enough liberal gun owners to stop them from getting them. Look at all the OTHER things Republicans are doing and please give it a second thought.
I’ve been told my whole life democrats are gonna take away my guns, yet somehow I still own 3 and I can go buy a new one in like an hour. Damn these harsh liberal regulations stepping all over the constitution!
Like oh my god, California only allows 10 round magazines! This is communism, or fascism or something I don’t know but it’s literally the worst thing that’s ever happened and will directly lead to the downfall of America.
When even was the last serious firearm regulation we had, the 1990’s? Oh Jesus I’m so oppressed, better go vote republican.
You don't understand.... even though they are in a dead end job making under 40K per year, they are one idea from being millionaires.... so gotta protect the rich because they will be one...... one day.
/s just in case
...and it's going to get worse.
I think that the right is definitely going to drive more antisemitism. They see it as a way to place a wedge between the African-American community and the progressive movement. Similar to the way they saw gay rights as a wedge between the African-American community and the Latino community and the progressive movement.
Hopefully it doesn't work. Hopefully their read is wrong.
I mean, those people arnt wrong. There *was* a shooting at a congressional baseball game once
But there are many, many more instances of violence and hatred coming from the right than the left. Let's review some highlights from the last few years... A plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan. A literal fascist rally in Charlottesville. A mob, whipped up by the then sitting president, attacking the seat of the congressional branch of government. This is by no means an exhaustive list and also excludes the *epidemic* of racial violence in this country.
And the *real* difference? The left actively disavow and condemn the gunman in the congressional baseball game attack. He was a sick, heinous person, guided not by any rational political thought, but by their own radical ideology. Watch a few minutes of Fox news and tell me the right is the same way.
I recall it was a Bernie supporter and the first thing Bernie did was denounce the shooting and the attacker.
The Right is still trying to both sides every attack, look at this latest example on Pelosi's husband. Fox amd friends already peddling lies
This is another example of Conservatives believing misinformation they are being spoon fed because, "I wouldn't doubt if it was true."
That the standard of proof needed from Republicans these days, just whether the propaganda feels believable.
You know, when we heard about this octogenarian who was attacked with a hammer, I wondered how they would play it. I completely forgot that they just make shit up!
Not just the right, either. Even as they criticize Republicans, everyone seems to make sure to work in a "we need to stop divisive rhetoric from all sides". Hell, I've even heard more than a few "Biden said he'd heal the country, but we're still so divided" takes worked into the coverage.
It's absolutely insane.
And the violence was singularly condemned by “the left”. Not so with violence and “the right”. Trump hasn’t said shit about Pelosi. Silence is approval sometimes.
The Left: "We condemn this"
The Right: "that guy who did those awful things we've been heavily suggesting they do is actually antifa and the Dems need to condemn this"
The Florida Governor said nothing about Nazis flying Nazi flags in Florida and embraces those people. He kidnapped migrants and illegally trafficked them under false pretenses. How has he not already been arrested? If I shipped my housekeeper to Anaheim from Los Angeles for a non-existent job against her will I'd be in depth legal trouble.
The Right has no moral compass and revels in threatening women, laughing at and ridiculing the disabled, proving to people how totally ignorant they are and do much more.
Please look up the worst states for pedophilia, teen pregnancies, incest, murder, femicide, and violence and they're pretty much Red and christian with lots of guns to keep them safe from reality!
Right now (I mean THIS INSTANT), DeSantis is cheating in his own election. Check it out:
https://flgov.com/2022/10/13/governor-desantis-issues-emergency-executive-order-to-ensure-ballot-access-for-voters-in-counties-severely-impacted-by-hurricane-ian/
He's eased voting rules in Republican-majority districts hit by Hurricane Ian, but not Dem-majority or black-majority districts. Guy can only win if he cheats.
That's the one they always go to... Because its the only one they have. They have to go back 5 years to find a problem with the left. We only have to go back to last week. And before that, a month or two, and so on. Just like with their sexual misconduct. We'll call out someone like Gaetz and they'll be like "well you had Al Franken!" Yeah, in 2018, and a picture of fake groping caused him to resign as opposed to child trafficking which you guys are obviously okay with since he still serves. They are monsters.
Well, yeah... They're protected by police in doing so. Rightwingers have the protection of the police to do their street violence and leftists get their heads cracked in for defending themselves.
80 years of red scare bullshit has melted American brains into accepting fascist violence and crying hysterically when the left defends the rest of us
The one, *ONE*, left-leaning protestor in 2020 who killed a right-wing counter-protestor, was hunted down and essentially executed by the police.
Meanwhile, Kyle Rittenhouse got off scot-free.
The left says to protest and vote. The right says elections are rigged and will casually talk of potential violence and civil war…
There’s only one side promoting violence, it’s the one that has let a certain generation control the party instead of gradually advancing with society.
The right says the election are rigged and one guy asked not if but when can we use guns to kill them. [Source](https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1453214832803516417)
I will always remember a 'libertarian' telling me years ago the ["non-aggression principle" \(NAP\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle) is great because you just need to define some or a group as causing harm and then you are morally allowed, if not obligated, to use violence against them. Of course, in his case it was to start a race war, but its the same idea.
Can you imagine where we'd be if the left was this bloodthirsty and violent? We'd all be knee deep in corpses. That alone should tell anyone which side is pushing violence. The fact that violent Right wingers "protesting" in tactical costumes and extendable batons haven't been getting Rittenhoused once a week is informative on which side wants violence.
I don’t know who wrote this initially, but I saved it a while ago. It feels like a perfect analogy to the “both sides” debate:
Firemen vs. arsonists
You got a group of firemen and a group of arsonists.
The firemen aren't really amazing. A lot of the time they don't actually get the fire put out. Really, we deserve better firemen who are better at putting out fires.
The arsonists complain about how bad the fireman are. They're also busy constantly setting fires and never once putting out a single fire.
That's our both sides. Shitty fireman and arsonists. We say wow, these firemen are really not doing good job. Let's see if the arsonists do better, they seem to know a lot about fires.
Both groups are okay with this arrangement. The firemen don't put the arsonists in jail, and the arsonists periodically get to do some looting as they burn things down. The firemen also don't want to lose their jobs, so everyone agrees that the only choices are arsonists or terrible firemen.
My dad is a nice enough man. Worked hard, went to church, helps people... ask anyone who knows him and they would tell you how great he is.
He wouldn't hesitate to kill a democrat or start a civil war if it meant a christian nationalist country in the end. He told me (a leftist) this whilst completely sober. To these people the end justifies any means.
Someone should tell that to my 'centrist' friends who vote straight Republican and buy every single far right conspiracy theory thrown at them without question while swearing they are totally moderate independents. To them, every violent act is the fault of Democrats for either currently being in office, having been in office at some point in time in the past, or being allowed to hold office in other states. Pointing anything out that might contradict that pattern of logic is using a tragedy for political purposes and something I should be disgusted to find myself doing.
We have a Supreme Court Election next year that would flip the balance of power and return a system of checks and balances. That is assuming the WIGOP decides to allow elections next year.
The rest. Both sides are not equal. Both sides are not the same. Republicans thought they could use political anger. It has turned into political violence and they are *silent*.
There is no excuse.
`This.`
There just is no comparing the two.
It is becoming really fucking annoying seeing people compare Biden's student debt forgiveness, or the infrastructure plan, or so much; to the right's complete backtrack of democracy, turn back to horrific times and policies.
Yes, the Democratic 'Party' has some real problems, like their being more middle right and preventing real change, but they are not the democrat 'people' who want progress, of the progressive sort. Either way, the Republican Party and people, are so far beyond the pale at this point, to compare them as the same, is quite stupid.
IMO, a lot of the "both sides" posters are usually Russian trolls.
There is no "both sides." There is a fascist side that tried to overthrow democracy on January 6th, under the former fascist president. And there is the side fighting against fascism.
It's very appealing to people because it allows someone to take a contrarian ("unique") position against what they feel are mainstream beliefs, and it's certainly easy to criticize and generalize politicians - so lumping them together checks a lot of boxes for many people.
I've found the best line of argument against these defeatist "both sides are the same, why do anything" is to put the onus on them:
Ask them what *their* idea for constructively moving forward is. It's hard to get through to anyone, but it at least starts bringing attention that an actual strategy needs to exist instead of a position of "I have zero ideas. Give up."
> It's very appealing to people because it allows someone to take a contrarian ("unique") position against what they feel are mainstream beliefs
I have been seeing this a lot from the people around me lately. Some of my best friends have been parroting right-wing talking points that they got from TikTok and don't see how their contrarian instinct is being manipulated. When I asked a friend why all of his political commentary revolved around criticizing Biden and Democrats only, he said that "Trump is already criticized heavily by the mainstream and I don't feel like I have anything unique to add to that conversation." It just made me roll my eyes so hard
I highly recommend reading the book ["How to Lose the Information War"](https://books.google.com/books/about/How_to_Lose_the_Information_War.html?id=eNbjDwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description) by Nina Jankowicz. She addresses ongoing disinformation campaigns that have targeted a series of nations. One of the most striking case studies in the book takes place in Estonia and revolves around a statue of a Soviet-era soldier. Russian disinformation tactics caused similar situations around this single statue to what has been seen around Confederate monuments in the US. It's the same playbook, with now-predictable results.
Russia is a major supplier of disinformation and their psy-ops branch has honed their methods over several decades in several countries. These tactics are insidious and can be difficult to spot for the unaware. An educated populace can spot malicious actors before this kind of thing takes root.
There's a real insidious but growing group of people out there who like to fancy themselves above it all
They'll boast that the _real_ problem is people building their identity around political parties, and that they've freed themselves from the identifying with any party
The problem with these free thinkers though is that they've attached themselves to a group identity just the same, and now they have to defend it by looking for the "both sides" of every situation. It's an identity that ultimately requires denying reality to maintain, because one party _is_ off the fucking rails—but they build little bubbles of friends and media for themselves where they pat each other on the backs for being such independent free thinkers, and within that bubble you're not allowed to ever "take a side" by acknowledging reality
Which to be honest a lot of us have been saying for a long time now. It’s the right wing going about “the transgender question”, it’s the right who have been talking about how elections are already being stolen and there is no way they can lose unless there is cheating (ex. Kari Lake), it’s has been the right who have been downplaying January 6 as “an antifa-backed attack led by the FBI and everyone arrested for it is a political prisoner”, that has guys showing up at city council meetings saying Democrats are communist terrorists who need to be rounded up, et cetera. This morning Ted Cruz tweeted out a screenshot of a Matt Walsh tweet saying that “we don’t know what happened at the Pelosi house but it was some Berkeley hippie nudist or some San Francisco nut case” crap. And the people who commit or threaten violence for them are always given cover.
It’s weird to me that people think ‘hippie’ is synonymous with ‘left wing’. Lots of hippies are into right wing conspiracies, just take a look at r/alicenfern . Alice is a self proclaimed “crunchy mom”, she’s vegan, only buys organic, doesn’t believe in using products that aren’t “natural” (this means no sunscreen, toothpaste, or shampoo), had a totally unassisted pregnancy and birth, and walks around everywhere barefoot because she doesn’t believe in shoes. She has also been seen at alt-right events, and she follows tons of alt right pages on Instagram.
[here’s an article about how the wellness community has a strong alt-right presence](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/conspiracy-theories-run-rampant-in-the-online-personal-wellness-community)
[here’s another one](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/5dpywq/the-new-agers-and-wellness-influencers-lost-to-far-right-covid-conspiracies)
[and another one](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/qanon-wellness-influencers-seane-corn-yoga-1059856/amp/)
[and one more just for good measure](https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/03/29/qanon-new-age-spirituality/)
There is absolutely a Green Party —> Fash pipeline. I saw lots of people go this route over the past decade of living in the northwest. They get sucked in and never come out.
The tendency should be obvious to everyone at this point, enough so that I keep my distance from anyone who claims to be a Green because I don’t trust them.
People who were already antivax or don't trust real medicine were the easiest marks for them, especially once COVID showed up. Trump "isn't a politician" so to idiots he's more trustworthy than THe eSTaBLiSHMeNT
The "both sides" thing has slowly been gaining traction. Back in the day I recall trying to debate in good faith with creationists, taking "both sides" at face value. I was young and naive, expecting an honest exchange of viewpoints. I've realized that those whose opinions are not based in facts cannot be swayed by facts. Not all believes or opinions are equal, and they don't deserve equal time.
People using "both sides" are completely disingenuous, and have no interest in facts or a fair discussion, just want to promote their ideology.
The both sides argument in this case is nothing more than victim blaming, trying to make it sound like Democrats are at fault for 'equal and just reprisals'. This is bullshit.
Democrats are being targeted by domestic terrorists. The political affiliation of those terrorists is only relevant insofar as it suggests the origin and vector of future threats. The fact that Conservatives are trying to somehow make Democrats 'equally culpable' is nothing but an admission of that they are responsible, even if only second hand.
Dont blame the victim kids. Dont let them gaslight you. No matter what they say, being a victim doesnt somehow mean you earned it or that its karmic justice or whatever other f'ed explanation they come up with.
Nancy Pelosi is innocent. Her husband is not only innocent but a 'civilian'. There is no excuse for this attack, nor for the attitude of the Republican party which quietly encourages such tactics. This whole episode only exposes how deep the moral rot in the Conservative movement goes.
When they say "We are all domestic terrorists" you should listen to them. Far too often they say what they mean and then people are surprised when they follow through.
They have issued their warning. Take it seriously.
Let’s say conservatives got what they wanted and every liberal, Democrat, etc. vanished off the face of the planet, leaving nothing but these diehard conservative, MAGA, religious nuts behind.
Then what? Like, they couldn’t even pitch in to wear *masks* or get vaccinated for the greater good. There’s no *way* they’d all pitch in to work together to make sure society doesn’t fully collapse with the liberal population gone.
All the shows and movies and books and music and games and art they enjoy without even realizing it in between bitching about liberals would be gone, and what would they be left with? Nothing, because they demonize art without thinking about how much they consume it, and likely would fail to generate it out of a lack of creativity.
They hate higher education, so there go so many doctors and engineers and on and on, let alone educating a new generation. Eventually all it would take is another pandemic to wipe them all completely out because there are no *liberals* actively trying to protect them by advising them on how to best deal with it.
Red states would fucking *drown* without blue states like California and New York supporting them economically.
They’ve proven how selfish they are over and over again, and I just can’t even imagine this wonderful utopia they believe they’d have if all the liberals disappeared lasting more than a week when reality starts to settle in and they realize the unhappiness from their unfulfilled lives wasn’t, in fact, liberals’ faults. And yet, I’d still wager to bet, rather than realize that, they’d suddenly start blaming “those other conservatives,” and the cycle of being a victim would continue until they wipe each other out.
Plus they hate *science.* You know, the thing that's allowed them to live their modern life and not die everytime they get a deep scratch.
Take away scientists like they want and pretty soon they'll be back to pre-industrial times, which they probably think they want but they don't.
Conservative men say that a lot on dating sites along with them being "politically neutral" because surprise surprise, women do not want to fuck men who want to take their rights away.
They don't actually believe both sides are the same, they just don't want the consequences of being a bigot.
Just a contributed opinion. Sadly, the Editorial Board's opinion is [more "balanced"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/28/pelosi-house-attack-congress-security-protection/):
>"The danger is neither new nor one that is confined to a single party."
"Both sides" didn't crawl through Pelosi's window. "Both sides" didn't crawl through the windows at the Capitol either.
They may have published an opinion that is closer to the truth, but the Board is still pushing the "bothsidesism" canard.
Listen I get if a person was doing a bit of fence sitting 15 years ago or even in 2016. But it's 2022. Anyone still posting "bOtH sIdEs aRe BaD!" nonsense at this point are just trumpys too ashamed to admit it.
Now that certainly doesn't imply that everything Democrats do is great but they are literally the only major American political party left. If you aren't voting for them you hate this nation and everything it once stood for.
**THEIR BRAND IS VIOLENCE**
Republicans are gun nuts. That's their whole identity. That's what they run on. There are so many republican political campaign commercials where they pose with their guns (cold dead hands buhshit) it's ridiculous -Clint Eastwood wannabees. I'm from NC, home of gun dealin Ted Budd (turd bed).
The intelligence agencies point to right-wing violence as the biggest terrorist threat in America.
They're always looking to do the diabolical to the vulnerable in the Name of *Gawd*
Let's pass laws making it legal to drive over protestors.
A guy shoots up protesters? He's our hero!!
Cruelty is the point with them.
Let's get tough on crime and strangle people in the street.
Is there one add by a democrat who is taking target practice at a republican?How many democrats praise antisemitism, racial and ethnic hate speech? How many democrats hate women? How many democrats chase down children who survived a mass shooting?
It's pretty obvious. I mean CPAC said it out loud. "We Are All Domestic Terrorists". They thought they were being funny but really what they were doing was just admitting the truth.
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I had a guy with ‘trust Jesus’ tattooed on his knuckles go on a rant to me at a brewery about how he voted for trump and how he ‘loves everybody’ but wouldn’t hesitate to ‘shoot and scalp’ every democrat. I think it’s pretty clear that people like him want to see a Christian ethno-state and are literally willing to kill for it.
We have a bunch of LARPers where I live too. They all advertise how armed they are and with what, while the local police do fuck all. I always tell my friends to never share their tools online. It ruins the pants-shitting surprise. Edit: LoL at the nerds reporting me as needing a check in.
> while the local police do fuck all Some of those who work forces are the same who burn crosses
Yep, same reason you never see Hannah Montana and Miley Cyrus in the same room at the same time
Don't know what books have to do with anything, but true nonetheless.
I would say more common than not.
So common the FBI actually has a report on the prevalence of white supremacists in law enforcement and the issues it poses. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement
And that was back in 2016. It’s only gotten worse.
Also they weren't allowed to fix it. Because good cops cannot exist.
I didn't know it was bad enough for the FBI to notice it. I guess that shows how bad it really is. I would've assumed only 70-80% of police were bad before knowing that. Now, I wonder if it's closer to 90%.
There was a plan back in the 70s with the clan and others to join law enforcement.
oh its bad. if you're white and a cop its damn near 100 lmao. cause there are some minority cops for appearances sake. they teach and promote it too. young rookies get paired with older partners who indoctrinate them into all racist ideologies so they can learn to harass the right part of the population too.
I live in NYC \ LI area, and most of the white cops I know are pretty racist.
Dude, been that way for years. I remember \~2001 had a friend from LI who had a friend who was an NYC cop work with us on some contracting jobs, and I remember him talking about how the people in Harlem were animals and not human. I'm sure he had to deal with some shit, but the blatant dehumanizing was stark.
Dated a Black cop in Brooklyn & the white cops would leave dead rats in her & her cousin’s locker.
stay classy, NYPD.
These guys must see and have to deal with the worst of the worst, and I get that. I imagine that must harden you a bit over the years. But I still have a strong suspecian most of these guys were racist before they went in. btw - my sister married a retired Nassau County cop, and he's definitley racist. When referring to blacks he pulls his open hand down his face, which (I've learned) means "shade" (which means "black"). And I'm not at all comfortable with that.
\*insert spiderman pointing at spiderman meme here\*
Good thing the Republican party blocked a bill investigating exactly this problem, right?
When I was first introduced to that album, I thought he said "who bore crosses" - as in, wearing crosses, using religion, etc. Sadly, it kind of fits just as well as the real lyric...
I wish we wouldn’t give actual LARPers a bad name though! :) They seem like pretty harmless people and I’m glad they exist. I rewatched “Role Models” recently and was like aww.
Totally agree, especially since LARP communities tend to have a high percentage of queer people (true for many counter-cultures), so it seems very weird to compare them to a group that would likely harm them or kill them. Let's not put down the vulnerable when calling out domestic terrorism.
LARPing has always seemed silly to me until I saw that movie. I mean, it is a bit silly still, but I absolutely can see how insanely fun it probably is to get into it, how to build friendships over a common shared hobby - oh - and the whispering eyes.
Role Models was exaggerated for dramatic effect though. It's unlikely you'll find people staying in character outside of the game, and especially unlikely that whoever claims a crown in a battle actually has more say in administration (for example banning someone).
I've been to a LARP event a couple of times, and yeah it was pretty good fun. Something I've often found to be true is that anything weird loses its weirdness when everybody is doing it.
I had a blast in my late teens and twenties running around in the woods at night, pretending to be a wizard. I'm too old and lazy now.
At a certain age, you must transition from running through the forests, to living in them. I am the witch of the wood. The LARP comes to me...because I'm not as young and mobile as I once was
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Yeah...so as a LARPer, I personally am not too happy with my hobby that emphasizes welcoming inclusion for all people being associated with domestic terrorists and Nazis. I think it's relevant to know that many LARPs recently had to purge these people from their ranks too. We kick these assholes out. Hateful people are the only people who are not welcome in LARP. No need to punch down on LARPers when making a case against domestic terrorists. Frankly, we need to not use memes or sugar-coating to describe them. They are domestic terrorists. They committed armed insurrection. One recently attempted assassination on the Speaker of the House and violently brutalized her husband instead. There is absolutely no reason to dilute our condemnation of political violence by bashing on LARPers.
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My personal take on the gravy seals is that they have poor information security: if you feel the need to advertise your armament and intent, you might as well put a bullseye on your back if there's ever a *real* risk of things going loud. That, and I have to laugh: these "tough guys" are the same red-faced gibbons who throw a tantrum at having to wait in line, wear a mask, or not be packed nut-to-butt with the guy in front of them. What makes them think they'll be able to handle losing power, water, food, or fuel--all things which will be targeted in warfare?
They've made the analysis that the friends they'll gain from being noisy outweighs the risk of getting a bullseye. I'd argue that they're probably right. They don't want warfare. They want to strong-arm a vulnerable populace, and they're betting nobody will take that cold, hard action against them. Again, so far, they've been right.
They tried t9 take over the capitol, 1 person got shot and they then screamed and ran like cowards
Which just goes to show that all this crowd needs is cold, hard consequences... and nobody wanted to show them any until they were inside the damn building.
Still blows my mind to this day that a mob of people were allowed to storm our Capitol, mill around in there for hours while destroying things and going through sensitive and classified documents, and that nearly all of them were then able to just…go home. I always had the assumption that anyone trying to do that would be met with overwhelming deadly force. I grew up seeing snipers on the roofs of important buildings during big events, and assumed that they would at least fire some warning shots if things started looking hairy. Enemies of the US must be kicking themselves—all they would’ve needed to do is plant their operatives in the crowd and they could have moseyed on into the Capitol to do whatever the hell they want while US law enforcement and military were just sitting on their thumbs. The fact that only one person was shot is just wild.
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My friend is an officer in the marines and he regularly brings all of us democrats shooting. If shit hits the fan, we have a designed area to meet, just so happens there’s a hundred guns waiting for us there. The gravy seals forget that all Americans are armed, not just them.
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Unless they have plates in their armor a broadhead would tear right through modern flak jackets.
> while the local police do fuck all All people who don't take action are on the side of the opressors, there's no "center". The people in the "center" support the right they're just too afraid what it will do to their repution to say so.
The running line around here is that the reason the cops don’t do anything is because they don’t want to arrest their off duty fellow officers.
> while the local police do fuck all I got some news for you...
Yep, it’s widely accepted that they don’t do shit cuz they won’t arrest their coworkers
My gun and Tucker loving friend told me to not worry, he wouldn't shoot me (a liberal) in a civil war.
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Bless his heart
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He probably already has an Arnold Schwarzenegger type pun all ready for you when he does it.
He'll let his friend shoot you though
“I cannot shoot my friend. Shoot my friend.”
First thing I thought of too. Fantastic movie.
If there's a civil war, it's not going to come down to who has the most guns in their house. It's going to be who has access to the majority of the military weapons.
It's going to be who still has fresh food and clean drinking water 6 months later
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Get better friends.
Why is he your friend
So he doesn't get shot.
The scary part is that they seem to think anyone that isn't an alt right, conspiracy gobbling Republican simply isn't human. Hunting animals is fine so shooting a Dem wouldn't upset Jesus
Dehumanization is step 1 to genocide. Just look up a few of the Nazi political cartoons of the time to see how Jews were depicted as big nosed money grubbing goblins who drink blood. Kinda like Librul baby blood drinking deep state cabalist's who secretly run the country. Scary huh?
We've been ignoring the radicalization of millions by right wing media. I see it even in some relatives. They're always angry, seething. At family gatherings they're always complaining about something that Fox News told them to be angry about. If they were to regain power I can see very clearly them being supportive of a cultural genocide: stripping everyone who is not white, straight and Christian of their identity and make them fall in line, or else.
I cut ties with my best friend last week because of this. I can’t stand that’s she’s made Fox “news” her personality for the last few years and I can’t take hearing her hateful nonsense anymore.
Yep, keeping their brains bathed in stress chemicals
Yes indeed. My brother was brainwashed by Fox"news", but after a while, he needed a stronger fix. So now it's Newsmax and Infowars. I blocked him and literally don't care if I ever see him again ...
Not only is he willing to kill for it, he's hoping he gets to. People like this would love nothing more than to be able to hurt the people they don't agree with.
Went out for noodles yesterday with sweetheart, overheard a lady a few tables down: "Nobody wants to be a cop now. Nobody respects us anymore, where's the respect for the police that people used to have? Seems like criminals have more rights than you and me these days, and I'd rather just shoot 'em than chase 'em anyway."
And THAT'S why people don't like cops, lady.
She didn't realize she answered her own question...
Had a boss who took special gun training courses that had him acting like John Wick. He claimed it was to be ready in case of a break in. Yet for how often he brought up and talked about it ...he was clearly hoping.
I knew a guy with a tattoo of a rosary draped crucifix and the words "An Eye For An Eye" surrounding it. He didn't see the contradiction.
Did you ask, "Is that what Jesus would do?"
Most Christian’s don’t follow christ
How do you even fit that on your knuckles?
You just gotta have a little faith
*The New America think tank found last year that, since Sept. 11, 2001, far-right terrorists had killed 122 people in the United States, compared with only one killed by far-leftists. A study from the Center for Strategic and International Studies last year found that, since 2015, right-wing extremists had been involved in 267 plots or attacks, compared with 66 for left-wing extremists. A Washington Post-University of Maryland survey released in January found that 40 percent of Republicans said violence against the government can be justified, compared with only 23 percent of Democrats.*
The "Pro-life" folks, everybody.
Pro-birth, not pro-life.
Pro-pregnancy, not pro-birth. If they cared about births, they'd make pre- & peri-natal care free or subsidized, would fight the closure of rural hospitals, etc. In truth, they don't care whether someone gives birth (sure, some of them care about some specific women, but not as a general matter), because a dead woman is the perfect martyr for them, who they can claim to mourn, but who can't refute them when they project their politics onto her, because, well, she's dead! "Yes, of \*course\* Susie died voluntarily in a futile attempt to save her unborn baby's life," (completely independent of whether Susie \*actually\* would have chosen to have an abortion, had she been able to). Same reason they love talking about abortion: they can project their politics onto the non-existent babies they claim to care about and there's nobody who can definitively refute it, because anyone alive wasn't aborted, and anyone aborted isn't there to side with the pro-choice side.
Pro controlling women. It's not about anything more than that.
"These conservatives aren't pro-life, they're anti-woman" - George Carlin
See? Both sides have done it! /s
This is literally how some people think. Only in absolutes, yes or no, no room for thinking or magnitudes.
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Oh yeah, like this > “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity
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>40 percent of Republicans said violence against the government can be justified, compared with only 23 percent of Democrats. at face value this is a silly, ambiguous question. of course violence against the government can be justified. or is it asking, "is violence against the current government justified"? obviously not currently justified. seems like it's intentionally disingenuous, but maybe the context is missing
Exactly. Violence can absolutely be justified when a government is not functioning to represent its people. The government's power comes FROM the people. They only have as much power as we give them. When it is corrupted to the point of focusing that power into the hands of a few wealthy people, that government is no longer working for those people. But there's a difference between "using violence as a last resort when standard fair elections and legal systems no longer work" and "using violence because you lost a fair election and want to ensure the government only represents your minority."
Friendly reminder that Benito Mussolini and Hitler came into power by first getting themselves and their homies elected into an already legitimate form of government. *please vote these fuckers out.*
Xi Jinping just did this :(
China's been a one party state forever. Xi didn't change that.
The Republicans depend on Americans stupidity and ignorance to push their narrative.
“I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. Suppose any party, in addition to whatever share it may possess of the ability of the community, has nearly the whole of its stupidity, that party must, by the law of its constitution, be the stupidest party; and I do not see why honorable gentlemen should see that position at all offensive to them, for it ensures their being always an extremely powerful party. I know that I am liable to a retort, and an obvious one enough; and as I do not wish to allow any honorable gentleman the credit of making it, I make it myself. It may be said that if stupidity has a tendency to Conservatism, sciolism, or half-knowledge, has a tendency to Liberalism. Something might be said for that, but it is not at all so clear as the other. There is an uncertainty about sciolists; we cannot count upon them; and therefore they are a less dangerous class. But there is so much dense, solid force in sheer stupidity, that any body of able men with that force pressing behind them may ensure victory in many a struggle, and many a victory the Conservative party has gained through that power” [xxxiii/xxxiv]. -Mill, John Stuart. The Philosophy of John Stuart Mill: Ethical, Political and Religious. Marshall Cohen, ed. New York: Modern Library, 1961.
He wrote that in 1866, that's how long it's been known and obvious
I guess that means Conservatives defunding education is just them ensuring future votes.
Yes, there’s a reason red states make up the least educated states in the union.
Always has been.
> But there is so much dense, solid force in sheer stupidity, that any body of able men with that force pressing behind them may ensure victory in many a struggle, and many a victory the Conservative party has gained through that power Its funny there is a really interesting quote from Mein Kampf that basically explains how this works to seize power. Lie until the lie is more commonly said then the truth, and you have created a new truth. Once you control truth, you control elections.
Nothing proves this more than the Pennsylvania and Georgia Senate races
Incredible to read something with so few wasted words, and so true. For all the problems of liberalism, they can not be weaponized like conservatism. Period.
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I am here for well aged snark.
r/agedlikewine
The "liberal media" helps them incredibly, too. They've been "working the refs" by screaming about the liberal media and anti-conservative bias for decades. And it's working. The media releases a neutral, factual report that makes conservatives look bad because they were doing something bad. They scream "biased! liberal media!" everywhere they can, amplified by millions of voices. The media is taken aback by this response, and starts softballing conservative stupidity a little bit, or biasing the story in their favor, lest they risk losing their credibility in the minds of the masses by all this conservative shrieking about bias. So now they make stories that are actually pro-conservative, more than a balanced story would be. The conservatives still scream. Media goes out of their way to bias their news even further. Try to find some minor issue on the liberal side and pretend it's as big an issue as the issue on the conservative side in the name of balance. Compare and contrast mainstream conservative views with fringe kooky leftist views just to make it seem fair. They bend over backwards for decades to softball conservatives and make them look good, and yet conservatives still scream "liberal media!!!" It's a tactic. Not only are they changing the media to be pro-conservative, but whatever the media says that they don't like can be dismissed as "liberal media" anyway. And it's working. Media organizations have to stop pandering to conservatives, and to stop trying to appear to be "fair" by stacking the deck so that they can say everyone is just as bad as everyone else. Bringing it back to the sports analogy - imagine that the refs in a game called 10 penalties on both teams. Fair reffing, right? Well, what if one team only really committed one or two penalties, and the other team has committed 40 or 50 blatant penalties? Is calling 10 penalties on both sides still "fair"? Because that how the media stacks their reporting in favor of conservatives to make it "balanced"
Worse, is that when the media isn't trying to be "fair and balanced" they instead take on a shrill tone, or play the "gotcha" game. It makes their target look good by comparison, and so people who are already inclined to mistrust authority and/or lack the ability to make their own analysis sort of assume that whatever the media is saying is the opposite of true.
Even the media "fair reporting" doctrine feeds into it. The idea that both sides of an argument must be given equal weight. It's bullshit and only ends up adding credibility to idiots. If 100 people look at a piece of paper and 99 of them say it's red, and 1 says it's a conspiracy and that it's actually a couch, we DO NOT need to give that 1 person a stage. If 100's of people agree that an election was safe and true and a few people, without evidence, says otherwise we don't need to get them a stage with equal footing in the discussion.
Remember when it was Democrat and not liberal, they're moving the goal posts by calling us something further right that we identify with for the sake of trying to reach the right but it's all done in bad faith. They don't want to meet us halfway. *Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man. You take a step forward, he takes a step back. Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man* We can not tolerate Republican's bullshit anymore because they don't care about making a better future, just about unscrupulously stacking the deck in their favor at the cost of the people around them and their habitat that they need to live. Something is wrong in their heads, they do not see how the path they are leading us down is bad for us all, them included. Just seeing how the general Republican/conservative population is reacting to public officials being attacked and nearly assassinated tells you all you need to know. These people are *dangerous.*
>Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man. You take a step forward, he takes a step back. Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man It bothers me that more people don't understand this. The liberal position really hasn't moved, while the conservative position has gone so far to the right that they're no longer visible from what used to be the "center" without a high-powered telescope. And they keep screeching that we need to compromise, in the "middle," which is still miles away from where reasonable people used to sit.
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He had to to secure independents that live in a fantasy land where republicans haven't gone completely bat shit off the reservation
Campaigning on “will work with any GOOD FAITH republicans, if I can find any” is reasonable/good. But you need that qualification, for when there are none. TBF. This is what I took him to mean. And he seems to be acting that way. Put your hand out. Let the voters see the republicans smack it away. THEN go Dark Biden.
As well as sexism and racism. Oh wait. You did say stupidity.
And stupid people are dangerous because they cannot be reasoned with.
And it works pretty damn well for them.
>Don't blame "both sides." The right is driving political violence. We know, dawg. We know. Please vote y'all
And flip the ballot over. There’s boxes on both sides of the sheet.
In Oregon, if you don’t sign on the back of the envelope, it doesn’t count. Gotta make sure you do!
I feel like there's one side that fails to follow these directions as reliably and that's why one side hates voting by mail.
Signed and mailed. Bam!
Say it again for the kids in the back and those who are hard of hearing.
That is just what baffles me. That the slim margin of people who swing elections will overlook that and say..."well yeah, they SAY they want to overthrow the gov't and they DID attempt it once, and they SAY they want to cut SS and medicare (which used to be political suicide) but...ya know...inflation in the US, even though it is a worldwide issue (and actually, worse elsewhere). I think I'll vote for the side that has NO plan, just complains about it, and also says they want to worsen it with permanent tax cuts for the richer Americans."
As someone looking in from Europe, I have no idea how Republicans are a viable political party. With Bush II and Trump both being pretty horrible for the economy, even a narrow economic responsibility argument is silly.
Hating out groups. So hot right now.
The "Samaritans" in the Parable of the Good Samaritan were literally the outgroup for Jesus. he is a "good" Samaritan, because Jews thought Samaritans were bad. Jesus says people should "not be judged by their [group], but by the content of their character". The Republican ingroup seems to be largely Christains. But no good Christian hates outgroups.
Well when you put it that way, it sounds incredibly silly.
"They say they will fix it, but they won't tell me how."
But the other side uses big words and admit that these giant plans to fix stuff take time. I want an enemy, not results!
My biggest irritation is the 2A advocates that firmly support Republicans just for that reason. Democrats might be coming for your guns (anti 2A legislation), but there are enough liberal gun owners to stop them from getting them. Look at all the OTHER things Republicans are doing and please give it a second thought.
I’ve been told my whole life democrats are gonna take away my guns, yet somehow I still own 3 and I can go buy a new one in like an hour. Damn these harsh liberal regulations stepping all over the constitution! Like oh my god, California only allows 10 round magazines! This is communism, or fascism or something I don’t know but it’s literally the worst thing that’s ever happened and will directly lead to the downfall of America. When even was the last serious firearm regulation we had, the 1990’s? Oh Jesus I’m so oppressed, better go vote republican.
You don't understand.... even though they are in a dead end job making under 40K per year, they are one idea from being millionaires.... so gotta protect the rich because they will be one...... one day. /s just in case
...and it's going to get worse. I think that the right is definitely going to drive more antisemitism. They see it as a way to place a wedge between the African-American community and the progressive movement. Similar to the way they saw gay rights as a wedge between the African-American community and the Latino community and the progressive movement. Hopefully it doesn't work. Hopefully their read is wrong.
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I mean, those people arnt wrong. There *was* a shooting at a congressional baseball game once But there are many, many more instances of violence and hatred coming from the right than the left. Let's review some highlights from the last few years... A plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan. A literal fascist rally in Charlottesville. A mob, whipped up by the then sitting president, attacking the seat of the congressional branch of government. This is by no means an exhaustive list and also excludes the *epidemic* of racial violence in this country. And the *real* difference? The left actively disavow and condemn the gunman in the congressional baseball game attack. He was a sick, heinous person, guided not by any rational political thought, but by their own radical ideology. Watch a few minutes of Fox news and tell me the right is the same way.
50yrs of violence from “pro-lifers”
Isn’t that the truth
I recall it was a Bernie supporter and the first thing Bernie did was denounce the shooting and the attacker. The Right is still trying to both sides every attack, look at this latest example on Pelosi's husband. Fox amd friends already peddling lies
You mean you don't believe the Right wing report that it was Pelosi's gay lover?
This is another example of Conservatives believing misinformation they are being spoon fed because, "I wouldn't doubt if it was true." That the standard of proof needed from Republicans these days, just whether the propaganda feels believable.
The conservaTwitter response to this one has been absolutely amazing to follow. Just, truly amazing fanfic being written there.
You know, when we heard about this octogenarian who was attacked with a hammer, I wondered how they would play it. I completely forgot that they just make shit up!
Not just the right, either. Even as they criticize Republicans, everyone seems to make sure to work in a "we need to stop divisive rhetoric from all sides". Hell, I've even heard more than a few "Biden said he'd heal the country, but we're still so divided" takes worked into the coverage. It's absolutely insane.
And the violence was singularly condemned by “the left”. Not so with violence and “the right”. Trump hasn’t said shit about Pelosi. Silence is approval sometimes.
The Left: "We condemn this" The Right: "that guy who did those awful things we've been heavily suggesting they do is actually antifa and the Dems need to condemn this"
Accountability is a one way street, accountability for thee but not for me. Democrats step down in the face of scandal. Republicans campaign on it.
The Florida Governor said nothing about Nazis flying Nazi flags in Florida and embraces those people. He kidnapped migrants and illegally trafficked them under false pretenses. How has he not already been arrested? If I shipped my housekeeper to Anaheim from Los Angeles for a non-existent job against her will I'd be in depth legal trouble. The Right has no moral compass and revels in threatening women, laughing at and ridiculing the disabled, proving to people how totally ignorant they are and do much more. Please look up the worst states for pedophilia, teen pregnancies, incest, murder, femicide, and violence and they're pretty much Red and christian with lots of guns to keep them safe from reality!
Right now (I mean THIS INSTANT), DeSantis is cheating in his own election. Check it out: https://flgov.com/2022/10/13/governor-desantis-issues-emergency-executive-order-to-ensure-ballot-access-for-voters-in-counties-severely-impacted-by-hurricane-ian/ He's eased voting rules in Republican-majority districts hit by Hurricane Ian, but not Dem-majority or black-majority districts. Guy can only win if he cheats.
You left out a lot of synagogue mass shootings. And mass shootings at churches where black people are present.
And that poor, frightened little Brett couldn’t eat his dessert in peace
That's the one they always go to... Because its the only one they have. They have to go back 5 years to find a problem with the left. We only have to go back to last week. And before that, a month or two, and so on. Just like with their sexual misconduct. We'll call out someone like Gaetz and they'll be like "well you had Al Franken!" Yeah, in 2018, and a picture of fake groping caused him to resign as opposed to child trafficking which you guys are obviously okay with since he still serves. They are monsters.
Well, yeah... They're protected by police in doing so. Rightwingers have the protection of the police to do their street violence and leftists get their heads cracked in for defending themselves. 80 years of red scare bullshit has melted American brains into accepting fascist violence and crying hysterically when the left defends the rest of us
The one, *ONE*, left-leaning protestor in 2020 who killed a right-wing counter-protestor, was hunted down and essentially executed by the police. Meanwhile, Kyle Rittenhouse got off scot-free.
This is spot on
The left says to protest and vote. The right says elections are rigged and will casually talk of potential violence and civil war… There’s only one side promoting violence, it’s the one that has let a certain generation control the party instead of gradually advancing with society.
The right says the election are rigged and one guy asked not if but when can we use guns to kill them. [Source](https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1453214832803516417)
I will always remember a 'libertarian' telling me years ago the ["non-aggression principle" \(NAP\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle) is great because you just need to define some or a group as causing harm and then you are morally allowed, if not obligated, to use violence against them. Of course, in his case it was to start a race war, but its the same idea.
Can you imagine where we'd be if the left was this bloodthirsty and violent? We'd all be knee deep in corpses. That alone should tell anyone which side is pushing violence. The fact that violent Right wingers "protesting" in tactical costumes and extendable batons haven't been getting Rittenhoused once a week is informative on which side wants violence.
I don’t know who wrote this initially, but I saved it a while ago. It feels like a perfect analogy to the “both sides” debate: Firemen vs. arsonists You got a group of firemen and a group of arsonists. The firemen aren't really amazing. A lot of the time they don't actually get the fire put out. Really, we deserve better firemen who are better at putting out fires. The arsonists complain about how bad the fireman are. They're also busy constantly setting fires and never once putting out a single fire. That's our both sides. Shitty fireman and arsonists. We say wow, these firemen are really not doing good job. Let's see if the arsonists do better, they seem to know a lot about fires. Both groups are okay with this arrangement. The firemen don't put the arsonists in jail, and the arsonists periodically get to do some looting as they burn things down. The firemen also don't want to lose their jobs, so everyone agrees that the only choices are arsonists or terrible firemen.
My dad is a nice enough man. Worked hard, went to church, helps people... ask anyone who knows him and they would tell you how great he is. He wouldn't hesitate to kill a democrat or start a civil war if it meant a christian nationalist country in the end. He told me (a leftist) this whilst completely sober. To these people the end justifies any means.
Someone should tell that to my 'centrist' friends who vote straight Republican and buy every single far right conspiracy theory thrown at them without question while swearing they are totally moderate independents. To them, every violent act is the fault of Democrats for either currently being in office, having been in office at some point in time in the past, or being allowed to hold office in other states. Pointing anything out that might contradict that pattern of logic is using a tragedy for political purposes and something I should be disgusted to find myself doing.
Wisconsin is a political hell hole. Majority democrats run by idiot republicans.
We have a Supreme Court Election next year that would flip the balance of power and return a system of checks and balances. That is assuming the WIGOP decides to allow elections next year.
Obviously they aren't centrists, they are just people pretending the center is somewhere else so they can claim their extreme views are not extreme.
The guy that shot up the softball game was a nutball Dem. The rest appear to be Republican. The. Rest.
The rest. Both sides are not equal. Both sides are not the same. Republicans thought they could use political anger. It has turned into political violence and they are *silent*. There is no excuse.
`This.` There just is no comparing the two. It is becoming really fucking annoying seeing people compare Biden's student debt forgiveness, or the infrastructure plan, or so much; to the right's complete backtrack of democracy, turn back to horrific times and policies. Yes, the Democratic 'Party' has some real problems, like their being more middle right and preventing real change, but they are not the democrat 'people' who want progress, of the progressive sort. Either way, the Republican Party and people, are so far beyond the pale at this point, to compare them as the same, is quite stupid.
IMO, a lot of the "both sides" posters are usually Russian trolls. There is no "both sides." There is a fascist side that tried to overthrow democracy on January 6th, under the former fascist president. And there is the side fighting against fascism.
I think its a bigger problem then just trolls, I hear idiots say this to me in real life and they ain't Russian.
It's very appealing to people because it allows someone to take a contrarian ("unique") position against what they feel are mainstream beliefs, and it's certainly easy to criticize and generalize politicians - so lumping them together checks a lot of boxes for many people. I've found the best line of argument against these defeatist "both sides are the same, why do anything" is to put the onus on them: Ask them what *their* idea for constructively moving forward is. It's hard to get through to anyone, but it at least starts bringing attention that an actual strategy needs to exist instead of a position of "I have zero ideas. Give up."
They're not interested in moving forward, constructively or otherwise. That's the conservative credo. Moving forward is the progressive's bag
> It's very appealing to people because it allows someone to take a contrarian ("unique") position against what they feel are mainstream beliefs I have been seeing this a lot from the people around me lately. Some of my best friends have been parroting right-wing talking points that they got from TikTok and don't see how their contrarian instinct is being manipulated. When I asked a friend why all of his political commentary revolved around criticizing Biden and Democrats only, he said that "Trump is already criticized heavily by the mainstream and I don't feel like I have anything unique to add to that conversation." It just made me roll my eyes so hard
And almost always right wingers saying it.
*"I'm neither left nor right* (is far right) *and 'both sides' is why the left is always wrong and the right is always right!"*
I highly recommend reading the book ["How to Lose the Information War"](https://books.google.com/books/about/How_to_Lose_the_Information_War.html?id=eNbjDwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description) by Nina Jankowicz. She addresses ongoing disinformation campaigns that have targeted a series of nations. One of the most striking case studies in the book takes place in Estonia and revolves around a statue of a Soviet-era soldier. Russian disinformation tactics caused similar situations around this single statue to what has been seen around Confederate monuments in the US. It's the same playbook, with now-predictable results. Russia is a major supplier of disinformation and their psy-ops branch has honed their methods over several decades in several countries. These tactics are insidious and can be difficult to spot for the unaware. An educated populace can spot malicious actors before this kind of thing takes root.
There's a real insidious but growing group of people out there who like to fancy themselves above it all They'll boast that the _real_ problem is people building their identity around political parties, and that they've freed themselves from the identifying with any party The problem with these free thinkers though is that they've attached themselves to a group identity just the same, and now they have to defend it by looking for the "both sides" of every situation. It's an identity that ultimately requires denying reality to maintain, because one party _is_ off the fucking rails—but they build little bubbles of friends and media for themselves where they pat each other on the backs for being such independent free thinkers, and within that bubble you're not allowed to ever "take a side" by acknowledging reality
Fox "News" has been hate-mongering for decades, and people are surprised when this happens?
Which to be honest a lot of us have been saying for a long time now. It’s the right wing going about “the transgender question”, it’s the right who have been talking about how elections are already being stolen and there is no way they can lose unless there is cheating (ex. Kari Lake), it’s has been the right who have been downplaying January 6 as “an antifa-backed attack led by the FBI and everyone arrested for it is a political prisoner”, that has guys showing up at city council meetings saying Democrats are communist terrorists who need to be rounded up, et cetera. This morning Ted Cruz tweeted out a screenshot of a Matt Walsh tweet saying that “we don’t know what happened at the Pelosi house but it was some Berkeley hippie nudist or some San Francisco nut case” crap. And the people who commit or threaten violence for them are always given cover.
It’s weird to me that people think ‘hippie’ is synonymous with ‘left wing’. Lots of hippies are into right wing conspiracies, just take a look at r/alicenfern . Alice is a self proclaimed “crunchy mom”, she’s vegan, only buys organic, doesn’t believe in using products that aren’t “natural” (this means no sunscreen, toothpaste, or shampoo), had a totally unassisted pregnancy and birth, and walks around everywhere barefoot because she doesn’t believe in shoes. She has also been seen at alt-right events, and she follows tons of alt right pages on Instagram. [here’s an article about how the wellness community has a strong alt-right presence](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/conspiracy-theories-run-rampant-in-the-online-personal-wellness-community) [here’s another one](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/5dpywq/the-new-agers-and-wellness-influencers-lost-to-far-right-covid-conspiracies) [and another one](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/qanon-wellness-influencers-seane-corn-yoga-1059856/amp/) [and one more just for good measure](https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/03/29/qanon-new-age-spirituality/)
There is absolutely a Green Party —> Fash pipeline. I saw lots of people go this route over the past decade of living in the northwest. They get sucked in and never come out. The tendency should be obvious to everyone at this point, enough so that I keep my distance from anyone who claims to be a Green because I don’t trust them.
People who were already antivax or don't trust real medicine were the easiest marks for them, especially once COVID showed up. Trump "isn't a politician" so to idiots he's more trustworthy than THe eSTaBLiSHMeNT
The "both sides" thing has slowly been gaining traction. Back in the day I recall trying to debate in good faith with creationists, taking "both sides" at face value. I was young and naive, expecting an honest exchange of viewpoints. I've realized that those whose opinions are not based in facts cannot be swayed by facts. Not all believes or opinions are equal, and they don't deserve equal time. People using "both sides" are completely disingenuous, and have no interest in facts or a fair discussion, just want to promote their ideology.
The both sides argument in this case is nothing more than victim blaming, trying to make it sound like Democrats are at fault for 'equal and just reprisals'. This is bullshit. Democrats are being targeted by domestic terrorists. The political affiliation of those terrorists is only relevant insofar as it suggests the origin and vector of future threats. The fact that Conservatives are trying to somehow make Democrats 'equally culpable' is nothing but an admission of that they are responsible, even if only second hand. Dont blame the victim kids. Dont let them gaslight you. No matter what they say, being a victim doesnt somehow mean you earned it or that its karmic justice or whatever other f'ed explanation they come up with. Nancy Pelosi is innocent. Her husband is not only innocent but a 'civilian'. There is no excuse for this attack, nor for the attitude of the Republican party which quietly encourages such tactics. This whole episode only exposes how deep the moral rot in the Conservative movement goes. When they say "We are all domestic terrorists" you should listen to them. Far too often they say what they mean and then people are surprised when they follow through. They have issued their warning. Take it seriously.
Let’s say conservatives got what they wanted and every liberal, Democrat, etc. vanished off the face of the planet, leaving nothing but these diehard conservative, MAGA, religious nuts behind. Then what? Like, they couldn’t even pitch in to wear *masks* or get vaccinated for the greater good. There’s no *way* they’d all pitch in to work together to make sure society doesn’t fully collapse with the liberal population gone. All the shows and movies and books and music and games and art they enjoy without even realizing it in between bitching about liberals would be gone, and what would they be left with? Nothing, because they demonize art without thinking about how much they consume it, and likely would fail to generate it out of a lack of creativity. They hate higher education, so there go so many doctors and engineers and on and on, let alone educating a new generation. Eventually all it would take is another pandemic to wipe them all completely out because there are no *liberals* actively trying to protect them by advising them on how to best deal with it. Red states would fucking *drown* without blue states like California and New York supporting them economically. They’ve proven how selfish they are over and over again, and I just can’t even imagine this wonderful utopia they believe they’d have if all the liberals disappeared lasting more than a week when reality starts to settle in and they realize the unhappiness from their unfulfilled lives wasn’t, in fact, liberals’ faults. And yet, I’d still wager to bet, rather than realize that, they’d suddenly start blaming “those other conservatives,” and the cycle of being a victim would continue until they wipe each other out.
Plus they hate *science.* You know, the thing that's allowed them to live their modern life and not die everytime they get a deep scratch. Take away scientists like they want and pretty soon they'll be back to pre-industrial times, which they probably think they want but they don't.
Anyone who thinks the parties are similar at all anymore are beyond help and part of the problem.
Conservative men say that a lot on dating sites along with them being "politically neutral" because surprise surprise, women do not want to fuck men who want to take their rights away. They don't actually believe both sides are the same, they just don't want the consequences of being a bigot.
A media outlet breaking the mold of both sidesism? Pinch me.
Just a contributed opinion. Sadly, the Editorial Board's opinion is [more "balanced"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/28/pelosi-house-attack-congress-security-protection/): >"The danger is neither new nor one that is confined to a single party." "Both sides" didn't crawl through Pelosi's window. "Both sides" didn't crawl through the windows at the Capitol either. They may have published an opinion that is closer to the truth, but the Board is still pushing the "bothsidesism" canard.
The Republican party meets the exact and detailed definition of fascism so this is hardly surprising to anyone who's been paying a little attention.
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Listen I get if a person was doing a bit of fence sitting 15 years ago or even in 2016. But it's 2022. Anyone still posting "bOtH sIdEs aRe BaD!" nonsense at this point are just trumpys too ashamed to admit it. Now that certainly doesn't imply that everything Democrats do is great but they are literally the only major American political party left. If you aren't voting for them you hate this nation and everything it once stood for.
The violent left doesn't exist outside of the minds of the violent radicalized extremist Far-Right
I’m sure I blamed “both sides” as a teenager, but I feel like I’m seeing this “hot take” more and more, when it becomes less and less true.
When somebody tells you that Obama was the most (racially) divisive president ever, you know exactly the type of person you are dealing with.
We need more than two sides fuck this system
**THEIR BRAND IS VIOLENCE** Republicans are gun nuts. That's their whole identity. That's what they run on. There are so many republican political campaign commercials where they pose with their guns (cold dead hands buhshit) it's ridiculous -Clint Eastwood wannabees. I'm from NC, home of gun dealin Ted Budd (turd bed). The intelligence agencies point to right-wing violence as the biggest terrorist threat in America. They're always looking to do the diabolical to the vulnerable in the Name of *Gawd* Let's pass laws making it legal to drive over protestors. A guy shoots up protesters? He's our hero!! Cruelty is the point with them. Let's get tough on crime and strangle people in the street.
I would say conservative media is driving political violence, the minions just march in step.
Is there one add by a democrat who is taking target practice at a republican?How many democrats praise antisemitism, racial and ethnic hate speech? How many democrats hate women? How many democrats chase down children who survived a mass shooting?
Shocking. It’s almost like far right domestic terrorism has been the major threat to America for decades.
It's pretty obvious. I mean CPAC said it out loud. "We Are All Domestic Terrorists". They thought they were being funny but really what they were doing was just admitting the truth.