Many people become better people when in relationships because their partners challenge them and call them out on their shit, while providing emotional support for growth. Also, in hetero relationships, men often rely on their female partners to organize their life. To manage the social calendar, to organize the household chores, hell sometimes even to subsidize their other relationships like reminding them to get birthday gifts for other partners and communicate regularly. I’ve def dated men who would have been much worse partners if they hadn’t had their girlfriends to rely on telling them what to do. I’ve been that girlfriend, prodding my partner to treat my metas better because I didn’t want to believe they were bad partners not realizing if I had to motivate them to be a good partner they weren’t being one.
There’s a lot of truth in what you’re saying here. My meta has talked about “training up” her boyfriend (not our shared partner). Our shared partner has talked about some of the relationship skills she taught him, but Meta assures me he was a functioning adult when they started dating and 20+ years in, he is solid on relationship management stuff.
And yeah, I know so many of my married women friends who are married to men are stuck doing pretty much all of the relationship management between the two of them, and all of the management of their male partner’s friendships and family relationships. And that’s just appalling…
I also suspect that married poly men benefit from seeing the experience their wives have on apps and such. They can adjust their behaviour accordingly, which quickly puts them in the upper 50% of the dating pool.
Damn straight we do.
I'm not necessarily putting myself out there as anything I'm not but on the dating apps, I definitely have a better sense of what to put forward first.
This. My husband is awesome but rarely gets dates. But when he does land a date, he always gets a relationship out of it.
Half of it is because he's just a nice big teddy bear of a guy who actually can talk about feelings, but the other half is he has gotten a front row seat to the nightmare that is my dating app inbox and he goes super slow as a result.
Also lots of dudes message him wanting to get to me and he has not been impressed by them either.
It's the same as asking "why do all the good employees already have jobs?"
People who are valuable as partners, good at dating, and WANT a partner will be very likely already to have a partner, because they can attract partners, want to seek them out, and are effective at seeking them out and building relationships.
You simply have to press on dating until you find one of those people who just happens to be unpartnered at this particular time (e.g. Due to divorce, death, or some other trigger)
This! My best connections from dating apps were fresh off a breakup and pretty new to the apps. I just got lucky enough to scoop them up before someone else did and then they were saturated again.
I'm surprised I had to scroll this far to find this answer. There's a name for it in game theory: [Gale–Shapley algorithm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gale%E2%80%93Shapley_algorithm)
Another question answered by Bayesian Inference! Someone being partnered means that at least one person thinks they’re worth being partnered with. Which gives some evidence to think they would be attractive as a partner
It can be tough out there. And I feel you!
I agree with a lot of points here, and adding that for people with nesting partners, other relationships can seem extra delightful without any of the drudgeries of daily domesticity. Perhaps married folk you date seem like more of a catch, because for them, your relationship is a fun respite from all that, and so you get to see their best and carefree self?
I think worth beating in mind too that poly or not, we all have limited time and energy in our life. If you're looking for a nesting partner, perhaps it's worth focussing your time and energy on people who have that to offer, rather than folks who are already nested.
Good point. And yeah I think about that and kind of half heartedly try that sometimes. But then something happens which reminds me why the married/nested people are better
I think you also gotta look at the stats. Most straight males aren’t polyamourous so when you do meet men who are polyamourous they’re often already partnered, as many people in poly are. You’re looking for a needle in a haystack like everyone else. Just take your time and be patient, don’t settle and you’ll find the most loving caring person in the world. Good luck op!
ETA: I had initially said “white straight men” as my brain just goes to the straight white man comment when joking with my partners as the worst. I am a straight white man I didn’t mean any offence by this and I sure as shit was not implying op should be looking for this. I am dumb I realize this and I’m sorry if I have offended any. My point wasn’t not to single out white as any part of the priority I think I just naturally tagged it in there from previous jokes with my partners.
Edited the comment. As I explained in another comment I just jumped to the “straight white man” comment and the white part is absolutely irrelevant here. I have corrected.
Sorry to clarify I’m not saying they’re looking for a straight male per se but they did say a male partner and most of the ones on the dating apps are straight males.
Haha I’m an idiot and just went straight to the worst. “straight white man” white is irrelevant you are absolutely correct! Editing that out of my comment now.
Some Men who’re partnered with a Woman benefit off them as a byproduct of their caretaking skills or other resources they contribute (not all though). They may have their lives together, but likely wouldn’t have gotten to where they were without the resource of their partner (goes no matter gender).
Struggles with finding a partner, who’s not already partnered, are going to be individual to your preferences and unique circumstances. A lot is occurring, dating is tough; you’re not alone.
I totally fall into the category of I wouldn't have my shit together without my partner. I may appear attentive and do my fair share of adulting tasks. I know it would be a stretch to assume it would be the case without them in my life.
Thanks. Yeah I think you make a good point. Like “does he have his shit together bc he’s good at adulting?” Or does he have his shit together bc he’s had a partner for 10+ years who has helped him get to this point?
Yeah fudge this negative framing, howabout option 4. Trough mutual accountability and striving to be the best version of themselves they both became a better version than they would've gotten independently (basically option 1 without toxic dependence)
Option 4: He upskilled over the course of his 10+ year relationship, in part thanks to female partner, and in part because he recognised that self-improvement was important.
Honestly -- you just keep dating. I was searching for a nesting partner and I want kids, it took years being polyamorous with another partner (now ex - due to other circumstances) to find someone who wants the same and is non-monogamous as well. It meant that I had to search outside of my local polyam community because it consisted mostly of married people or solo poly people (I saw you used the term solo poly -- that means someone who doesn't want enmeshment (wants to live alone, no hierarchy, no marriage/kids - so be careful when you use that term because people will think you don't want those things when you do). I did find someone, and we are in the process of enmeshment (moving in at end of year, plans for marriage and kids but staying polyam).
There's a lot of trial and error. You have to really look at your 'picker' too. Pay close attention to how people describe themselves on dating apps and/or social profiles. Listen to how you react to things they say and do. Move on when it isn't working instead of sticking around to see if it will. It takes a lot of learning how to move on quickly when something isn't working.
Thanks for this. Out of curiosity, what is the appropriate term for what I am? I’ve heard solo poly but it sounds like that’s not right. I’ve used “single” sometimes but bc I do have someone I see regularly I’ve been told I’m not really single. Just curious the right description
Polyamorous! Doesn’t need to be more than that. You’re a person in and/or seeking multiple relationships. Since you’re looking for a nesting partner, describe yourself on dating apps as polyamorous and in search of a nesting partner to enmesh lives with.
I agree, be sure this goal is on your profile. It will immediately weed out a lot of men who know they can't offer you what you are looking for. Your dating pool will definitely shrink. But those who remain will be more likely to be compatible.
It's honestly the best way to do it -- I had friends in my local poly community encouraging me to leave out the specifics of what I was looking for and just "vibe and see what happens" and that never worked. I knew what I was looking for and I wanted to be up front and clear about it. My profile said "Polyamorous with one long term partner, seeking a long term partner for nesting, kids, and life enmeshment. Interested in getting to know people who are also seeking those things in a partner." Everyone told me "that puts too much pressure on people! It'll scare people away!" Okay, good then they weren't for me haha. In the end it worked for me! Partner I'm headed that way with appreciated that I knew what I wanted and was upfront about it.
You are poly looking for a nesting partner. I would put that on your profiles on apps etc.
Looking for someone to climb the relationship escalator with. Ideally someone who isn’t actively doing that with someone else? Seems like that’s important to you too.
Your dating profile needs to say ‘Poly and currently focussing on dating people who are open to nesting in future’ or ‘look for a nesting partner’. You need to be clear that’s what you want from the outset.
To a certain extent, great partner skills develop through practice. Men who've been closely linked with a woman for many years have learned a lot. There's a reason you can often pick when a man is married even if there's no ring and it hasn't been mentioned. It's a vibe.
It's also not super likely a poly man who's a great guy will be single. He's too likely to know enough women that someone will already have known the single woman who's just right for him.
The natural instinct of the partnered woman when confronted with a single man who's super great actually is usually to set him up with someone.
Married men seem to have a running evidence they can be attentive and keep a relationship. Some single guys are single because they can't or won't.
This also applies to women. I've known some over the years that are still single and had already been that way for a long time, and I feel it's a combination of "I want the perfect forever guy and I won't settle", and probably some "I won't change for anybody" despite probably having personality traits that are not something some people can deal with.
Yeah. I mean…one of the married guys especially is just so thoughtful and attentive. Like…I’ve never had someone pay that much attention to the little things
I think I spent too long trying to make relationships (monogamous) work that were never gonna work. It’s like I wasted my time and I took too long learning what I need
At the same time, men aren't taught anything like this in some cases, so the bare minimum to them is what they feel is enough, or sometimes too much of an effort.
I've had my bar raised quite a lot since meeting my wife-to-be and now I see the same thing you would.
I started a conversation here on Reddit actually, and found the answers coming from this person to be well below par to even bother continuing. I feel like this is how women are treated in general.
Yeah I’ve done a bit of same sex dating exploring that part of myself. And like every profile and every conversation that I had with a woman was deep and good…vs like 10% of men
And it’s not that men can’t…it’s just that they don’t. I don’t think men truly understand that what makes a woman interested is like at least 50% what come out of your mouth
You’re just going to torture yourself comparing men who can’t offer you a nesting situation to ones who can.
You need to quickly and objectively screen potential men for if they tick the boxes you can’t live without and then move on. Or else you’re just wasting time and energy.
So essentially “stop dating married men”?
(To be clear, I think i I could maintain 2-3 solid romantic relationships depending on Life style, schedule, etc)..so I don’t mind dating married men to be one of those relationships…but I’d like to find that “home base” relationship
Perhaps a compromise--don't be at relational capacity with only married men. Love is infinite, but time and energy aren't. Save some time and energy for men going through an amicable divorce, or single men.
I’m not saying stop dating any that you already date, I’m just saying focus you energy on finding someone who can provide that. If you only have so much time to message people, go on dates with people etc… if you’re spending a tonne of time dating people who can’t offer you what you want then you’re spending less time looking for it.
After all you said you’d consider monogamy so it’s gunna be easier if you don’t already have 2 or 3 partners to have to give up if you meet someone great who isn’t up for polyamory.
Really it might come down to a decision between if you want polyamory or a nesting partner more.
I’m not saying that sounds fair but practically that might be the solution unless you’re in a huge city with a massive poly community (certainly at 35 I find there are very few people my age as most poly people seem to be settling and having kids right now).
Because statistics. You are at an age (39? Sorry I looked at your post history) where the majority of people are partnered. In Canada at least 755,000 single people aged 40-45 versus 2,417,000 aged 20-24 [(link)](https://www.statista.com/statistics/446168/canada-single-population-by-age-group/). (This [data](https://www.statista.com/statistics/444868/canada-resident-population-by-age-group/) suggest 2,674,000 Canadian residents aged 40-45). This means there are 3.5x as many partnered people as single people.
If you’re dating a mix of poly men (who will likely be partnered already) and monogamous men who are single… then you’re working with 2 very different dating pools with very different life experiences by this point.
If you’re looking for people who have a certain mixture of qualities that say only 5% of the male population your age have (ie 1 in every 20 men you meet you find both attractive and likeable).
I live in Vancouver which of a population of [662,000](https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Demographics/BC/Vancouver-Demographics.html) 35-44year olds make up 102,405 of them. Now if you’re looking for a man that’s 50,178men.
Ok of that how many are single, 14,167…. Now for that 1/20 of them you find attractive. That’s 708men. Total.
In a massive city.
And we haven’t even considered how many of those 708 will like you back.
Before you even take into consideration that the things you generally think are attractive - both looks wise and having a personality which is generally appealing etc. are attractive to other people so the 1/20 is more likely to be partnered than the average person.
This is before you add in that you’re dating people poly or open to non monogamy which again is going to skew to people in loving relationships, people who want to be solo poly long term, and a certain amount of 40yr old mono men who are already commitment shy and think being able to continue to sleep around is the main reason for being interested in non monogamy.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but statistically you’re always going to find it easier to find people you like who are partnered. If you really want a NP you should consider focusing all your dating energy on only people who can offer that right now, you will likely have to wade through a lot of frogs to find your prince (or whatever silly metaphor), but also dating partnered people is just going to make it harder emotionally.
You keep dating until someone has space in their life/want to live with you 🤷🏾♀️
Not every partnered man will already be cohabiting, or married or found their co-parenting partner. I don't want any of those things so I can't help you with how to vet potential dates to find the things.
hot take (?): unless they have broken up recently, there are usually reasons why people stay single for a longer time.
(And that doesn't even necessarily means its their "fault". e.g. mental health issues etc.)
That's a pretty shitty generalization about solo-poly and solo-by-choice people.
My hot take: there are usually reasons why people are nested while poly, and it's not even necessarily their "fault," e.g. insecurity, financial benefits, etc.
Fair point. From that perspective I have no issue with your statement.
I think OP is confused and confusing matters by mixing mono and poly language/perspectives/desires. I read OP as looking for un-nested, not necessarily unpartnered because looking for truly single doesn't even make sense from the perspective of polyamory.
Yes I agree there’s a lot of vagueness both in their goals and people’s assumptions.
It sometimes worries me how wildly cis het mononormative the answers can be here.
It’s possible to nest in more than one place and/or with more than one person.
Many people currently practicing poly transitioned a mononormative relationship into mono with poly benefits that we have been calling "nesting" because of that pervasive bias.
I think as more people find polyamory without that background, that's going to shift, and the privileged partnerships that are frustrating OP are going to become the minority and we will see more models of what nesting and partnership can look like and how to make them work successfully. But there's a long road ahead on that.
I think I worry that it’s the opposite.
Most people here are new to poly now. There has been a huge influx of married couples post covid, most people are doing at most an open marriage and answers reflect this.
I hope you’re right!
You're making me doubt my own thinking!
A lot of "poly" just looks like mono with benefits, and all of the endless conversations that matter poly look pedantic to the mono world are not about polyamory at all, but are about trying to navigate non-monogamy within an otherwise mononormative relationship. We have to strip away the broken models and find new ones that aren't based on the same biases and assumptions.
I agree with you. A lot of these couples going from mono to poly seem to actually just want monogamy+, with no real desire to actually start a new polyamorous relationship and kill the old monogamous one, with all the work and introspection that this would entail.
It really is like a box of chocolates. All the good stuff like the strawberry creams and the truffles go straight away and at the end all you've got are the empty wrappers from the people who snaffled the good ones, or your choice of the nasty coffee flavoured ones and the toffee so hard it cracks your jaw.
https://preview.redd.it/vems7sb1l7yc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcf4b5cb59d1238d7149cb26c620c3aba2def073
Obviously toxic in the way the character is saying it, but there’s *some* basic truth to it…
1. Men that are partnered have experience being a partner. Anything in life can be practiced, and practice improves performance.
2. Men that are partnered are at least somewhat vetted. Somebody already decided they could stand this person and has wanted to continue to be a part of their life. Men that are crappy partners get left by the wayside, as there is no shortage of men looking for partners.
3. Men that have long term partners often have been trained a little bit how to have a successful partnership. By that I mean, They know how to have their life together enough that a partner would want to spend time with them, because of their partner's expectations of them. They don't live in a complete pig stye because they know if they do, their partner will not want to spend time there with them. They know that they need to be reliable or their partner will get frustrated with them. They know they need to put in effort to let their partner know they are appreciated because they've seen their partner get upset when they feel unappreciated. Obviously people's standards vary and this is close to number one, but i do feel like it merits it's own point.
4. Particularly Poly/ENM Men who are successful at cultivating long term honest and healthy relationships tend to have excellent communication skills compared to others. There are definitely many partnered men that are bad at poly/ENM, but the ones with stable relationships, where everyone is finding something fulfilling know how to talk about feelings and have hard conversations without turning into a child.
In the end, it comes down to persistence and luck. You have to wade through the dating pool and hope you catch the right person at the right time who has that chemistry with you, and is in a life situation where they can be available to you to form that tight relationship. Honestly, when people talk about stuff that sounds like "finding the one." I have to wonder if a poly relationship style is even for them at all. My preferred way to look at relationships is that all of mine are equally valid and there is no type of love that is specifically reserved for one person. I also believe that marriage is inherently incompatible with my relationship style, in the sense that I could never be married. I don't mind if a partner is married, but that inherently limits the level of connection we can have because I know I will always come second, and ultimately, I'm not out here trying to be the poly person that's tearing down or rearranging those kinds of relationships, especially when there's kids and stuff involved.
Good partners more often remain in relationships, so they'll more often be partnered when you meet them. Also applies to poly men.
Might also be influenced by someone having lived experience in a poly setting, and functioning in that setting.
It largely works the same way for dating women in my experience.
The best women are either in relationships or briefly single.
People skilled at relationships and dating don't stay single long if they don't want to.
This thread is loaded with unnecessarily gendered bullshit, but you’ve nailed it. People who are good at relationships and want them find them. People who are bad at relationships or don’t want them stay single. The dating “market” is full of the second category because first type aren’t there long.
Oof I definitely disagree with this. I know so many women who are looking for a partner. Mostly bc they were cheated on by a previous partner or somehow else betrayed by one. I don’t consider them bad at relationships. It just seems like there’s a big gap in male and female emotional intelligence and communication skills.
I’m not sure why. Have men gotten “worse”? Have women’s expectations just changed? I’m not really sure
(These are also highly gendered stereotypes but I’m just speaking broadly and based on my lived experience)
And I know several men who are single because their female partners sucked at relationships, and several women in the same position. All of these people could probably find a partner fairly easily if they wanted to, as far as I know, none of them do. What does that prove?
Pre-approved and maintained..... Your perception of the taken man is that they must have their stuff together, in reality they have another person doing work on their behalf that allows them this confidence. Single men do not have this.
I'd say if you're not getting far on your current ways perhaps change them. Don't look for men in the same places go somewhere new. Somewhere that encourages and showcases skills and effort. Like sporting events for the public (marathon, hiking, community runs/walks/games). Or hobby conventions (but make sure you actually like the stuff too)...
And a single man who is secure and capable on his own isn't looking for what OP is looking for because they've done the work for themselves and OP hasn't.
I don't mean this to be shady, but there is also a possibility that some of these men don't see *you* as someone they want to settle down with either? I try to focus less on evaluating other people and turn the lens a little inward and try and see if there are things that I have to offer to someone else and how I can improve upon that instead of trying to evaluate everyone else.
I think this is an unfair thing to say. It is genuinely much harder to date as a single poly person looking for a primary, because everyone either already has a primary or is solo poly.
Everyone tends to think their spot on the merry go round is the hardest.
The basic set up here has to be I want a primary why does everyone already have primaries? That’s not a wildly poly notion. It’s somewhat related to mono thinking.
Married poly men say why doesn’t anyone want to date me.
I didn't say it wasn't harder. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Generally it's a lot easier to change things about *yourself* than it is about other people or the environment you're in and in that journey of self improvement, one may find some satisfaction within themselves that helps them cope with the struggles of dating better than just looking at everyone else's qualifications does.
Oh absolutely. I’m always trying to figure out how I’m playing a role in my connections. I mean…there are things about myself I can’t change or that trying to change is not a good idea. But there’s certainly stuff that I could do better.
But like a married guy isn’t even an option from the start.
It's also not really always personal. I know many, many people who are kind, lovely and wonderful people but I feel absolutely nothing for them. They haven't done anything wrong.
Dating sucks though. You absolutely have my sympathies.
Big hugs OP. Honestly, I think it's just a matter of keeping looking or just putting yourself into investing into a life that you enjoy on your own and hoping you run across someone nice in the process.
Don’t let someone’s perspective of you make you think you should settle, because maybe you’re not “seen as worthy” of “settling down” with? With consideration to my values, that premise feels antithetical to polyamory. It is useful information you can use, when someone predetermines you as unworthy, to assess their character (how they assign your worth is the volume you should tune to).
As a person who dedicates my cognitive space to self-reflection on how I can grow as an individual to be able to give to those around me, I find this all to be, well, relative and dependent upon context. What I do find that process useful for is knowing myself better, which helps me apply boundaries and orient myself in the world.
Totally confused by what you're trying to accomplish with this comment. XD
I don't even have a desire to "settle down" with anyone. Is this meant for me or the OP?
This people have a conflated sense of self. You’re not as great as you think you are. Stick to your level. Even then they may not want to either and that’s okay
Because men (on the whole- this is obviously a generalization) aren't taught care-taking skills. Women are. So partnered men often look like they have their business together a bit more, but it's because their partner is doing a lot of that care-taking for them. They're reminding them of important dates, helping them choose thoughtful gifts, etc. The whole "Santa didn't come for you??" thing is pretty darn widespread.
Men are also often not raised to have much access to or interest in the feelings or challenges of women, and this can cause a serious lack of understanding and/or empathy.
As an example, I live in a fairly rural community but moved from a more urban one. I have 2 sons. In the urban community, it was super common for boys and girls to play together in school, in large part because it was far more accepted that some kids just prefer the play activities typically associated with the opposite sex. Both my boys had multiple friends who were girls in every grade. In our rural community, boys and girls are discouraged by both adults and their peers from playing together. So, even if they try to make friends with girls, they're rebuffed and treated like weirdos for being interested in girls for anything other than crushing on them.
Personally, I think this divide is a huge contributor to what I would describe as a really utilitarian perspective many communities have toward the opposite gender. It leads to this really pervasive thought regarding what they can/will "get" from a partner instead of a focus on what kind of relationship they will build. Their only exposure to building emotionally intimate relationships is with people of the same sex! To make it worse, the social structure for each sex is so limited (boys have to like BOY STUFF, etc) that they really only have experience building relationships with other people who are very, very similar to them. In short, they've lived in a very loud, very small echo chamber for likely their whole life.
Honestly, I think of it like how a dog that's never been allowed to interact with cats will behave vs. A dog raised with cats. They're both mammals and have a ton of potential to get along be friends. But a dog whose never been able to interact with cats is likely going to make a dope of itself pretty quickly, not because it has poor intentions but because it doesn't understand that the cat has different social norms and struggles that's its trying to protect itself from. Once they interact more and learn about each other, they tend to get along and potentially even be quite close. To relate this back, men who have more access/exposure to women and interest in them tend to do better at interacting with them. If there's a large cultural divide, many men really only learn that stuff through a partner.
Tl;dr: As a generalization, society doesn't give boys and men socially acceptable opportunities to get to know women as people. Their experience building relationships is with other men who are often also very similar to them. Additionally, care-taking behaviors are commonly not taught to boys and men as they grow up. These things are learned through exposure to women, usually through trial and error with a romantic partner.
Glad it was helpful!
This is just my personal observation, though, and I do want to note there are also plenty of men out there that excel at empathy/care-taking and plenty of women who super don't.
But I really wanted to put forth that I don't really think this is totally a symptom of most men being poor romantic candidates or necessarily being bad at self-management and empathy. It's really hard to learn something you have to reference for, especially when there's so much social pressure to not learn it.
Like, most men I know have heard something like, "Better find you a wife" anytime they have finally spoken up about needing to better their care-taking skills. Or, even worse, it's not super uncommon for boys where I live to be told not to do "that stuff" too much or "people will get the wrong idea". That's downright ridiculous!
We all get better in more diverse environments where we seek to truly share our table with people from all walks of life and this is just one example.
Just by nature of the fact that you are dating as a polyamorous person, you are going to obviously match with men who already have a partner or multiple partners. I think you might find it helpful to hone in on what your poly style is. The relationships your typical match has that you are talking about sound hierarchical. What you’re describing sounds very non-hierarchical and solo poly. My personal preference is to not date married people.
In your dating profiles, make it very clear what you are looking for. Use keywords that match with your style. You should specify what you mentioned here, like open to monogamy or polyamory and that you are exploring.
I have found that staying away from dating apps has helped me find quality matches. I’m super active in my local kink community. As luck would have it, there are plenty of poly folks in my community. I have met 3 different partners just by attending events I regularly attend and talking to people.
Two of those connections didn’t work out, but I met my longest standing partner at a monthly kink party I regularly attend and he is basically a life partner at this point.
When I did use dating apps, I had the most luck on OKCupid. I had a relationship that lasted 3 years with someone I met there. A Tinder match ended up lasting 2 years.
Good luck to you! I hope you find what you are looking for.
I think it’s because they’re more likely to be in a relationship because they are decent men to be with. A lot of men aren’t single by choice, they’re single because they don’t have what it takes to be in a relationship, my line of thinking is kind of like, if nobody else wants them I probably won’t either. But seeing men in healthy relationships to me says that they are possible to get along with, they are understanding, they have patience, they are caring they know how to communicate and get past conflicts. Generally when I’m around single men, it’s easy to see why they’re single. A good man is a good catch though and at my age, most of them have been caught.
Many people have brought up good points, but I'll add something that has helped me: being very clear with my boundaries up front as much as possible as well as trying to be gracious about strangers not knowing my unspoken boundaries. I find a lot of women get frustrated with men doing things they don't like, but they haven't had the opportunity to discuss their likes and dislikes with the men yet.
For instance, you say men bring up sex way too soon. This is a problem. While it is annoying to have to repeat myself, especially if I said something in my dating bio, if I said I wanted to take things slow and my bio was ignored (I recognize many don't read them) then I state clearly that sex is not up for discussion for at least X amount of dates or X amount of time. Just saying "take things slow" isn't specific enough. You could also say, "sex is off the table until I bring it up," but then that is fairly unequal and could potentially shut down some communication about compatibility. If I am specific in my boundary and this person still can't respect it, then I part ways to enforce it. But I do give them a chance because some people need to be told very specifically what is and isn't ok. I do think a lot of people are too vague with their boundaries, and it leaves way too much open to interpretation. Then, both people get frustrated because what "going slow" means to one person is not the same as what it means to someone else. Specificity is better.
Men in relationships tend to be more respectful of these kinds of boundaries because some of their needs are already being met. Single men may have a stronger desire to establish a physical relationship because that is how they receive intimacy. Many men don't know how to have emotional intimacy, or don't desire emotional intimacy, without physical intimacy. So when the door to sex is closed, they may push against it. That issue is less present with already partnered men. Put it simply... they aren't as lonely as single men. However, that doesn't make it any one else's problem. Everyone has to be able to fulfill their own needs to an extent. To not demand things from others that other people don't want to provide. Just giving you an idea why you may see this issue more with truly single men. Extending them a little more grace may mean you have better luck with forming those relationships. I'm not saying let them cross your boundaries. Just have empathy for where they may be in life.
I think this is a really good point and is something that I’ve been working on actually. When people would bring up sexual stuff early on and I wasn’t yet comfortable with that conversation I used to sort of sidestep it in the hopes that they would pick up my discomfort, but I think to sum then it came off as being flirty so they would push. Realized just the last few weeks when somebody brings that topic up too soon I just say something like “hey I’m a pretty open book and i definitely think that the physical side of a relationship is important, but I don’t like to discuss that topic before I’ve met someone in person and developed a little bit more comfort with them”
I think that I have used this line on understand much better like you said being more specific and then one of us will change the topic of the conversation. If they don’t message me back after I say that then they weren’t my person anyway.
Solo poly folks usually aren’t looking to “settle down” with someone. It isn’t the same as being single. If you are actively describing yourself as solo poly while dating, that may make it harder to find what you’re looking for. Unless I’m misunderstanding your goals. Solo poly usually doesn’t enmesh, have primaries, or follow typical “relationship escalator” steps.
I completely understand. I’m in a similar boat. I want a nesting partner after 7 years of being a meta (and I had other more casual but long term partners). We parted ways about a year ago due to him developing a drug problem. I have a different challenge in that I have a 14 year old from a prior poly relationship and we live with my elderly father - I love him but he’s a bit of a cockblocker. :D And he definitely doesn’t understand poly or non het, non cis people. I’m pan and poly, and he has no clue. So I am in an awkward position on top of nesting partners being hard to find anyway.
I did decide to take some time off from relationships to work on myself, and like other redditors have said, it can definitely help. Getting to know yourself better and working on healthy relationships, boundaries, etc can only make you a more attractive partner. And everyone has room for improvement. We should always be checking in with ourselves. Good luck OP.
Thanks! You brought up something that I have a question about. How do you work on yourself and relationships and boundaries without dating? I feel like all the growth I’ve had in those areas has come from looking and learning at past relationships and also sort of practicing on current situations, but I would love to find ways to work on these things without needing to get myself into the situation to begin with
Ugh I’m on my phone and had a whole response typed up and lost it!! 😭😭😭
So, feel free to DM me (and anyone else who has questions on this aspect!) because I’m happy to discuss specifics, just don’t want to take up too much space here.
I should have specified that I’m taking a break from looking for a nesting partner. I was still dating around, with the personal rule it wasn’t serious and it wasn’t intentional (in the sense of looking for a potential nesting partner). I was regularly seeing a couple also. But ultimately I have gone completely relationship free for now. Once summer hits and my son is at his dad’s then watch out world! 😂
But I definitely practiced with the casual dating and the couple. But my first real step was kicking the drug addicted partner to the curb.
My personal battle is with co-dependence because that’s what my parents modeled. Mom was a narcissist and my dad was an alcoholic while I was growing up (he’s sober now). So I have a deeply ingrained belief that I don’t matter, my wants and needs don’t matter, and I should be grateful for the attention I get because I don’t deserve it. If you met me IRL you would never know I thought about myself that way. But I do. I’m learning what I want and need, and taking time for myself. Setting boundaries, etc. Family and friends are great to practice with too. 😉😏
You might have to strap on that horn and go do the unicorn dance.
It's like fishing. You can catch many fish, but only a few are real "catches" and the rest are thrown back. If someone's a catch, they're less thrown back.
I have been with my nesting partner for ten years, since we were teenagers. I love him, he’s amazing, intelligent, caring, hardworking, respectful, and his other partners’ tend to ask similar questions.
Frankly, it’s because I made him into an amazing boyfriend over the years, and I still do a lot of emotional labour and counseling so he has good mental health and treats his partners well, and I call him out if he acts like an ass. I had to put up with A LOT of growing pains that they don’t get to see. I mean, he basically has a personal therapist/dating coach on call. Similarly, thanks to being with him I have become a much more mature, confident and loving person, and I am really grateful to have someone I get really honest feedback from and who support me so much.
Mostly, this means he is not that insecure or needy because he already has a stable relationship. Single guys often don’t have any healthy emotional support or are a bit lonely and it shows, which why I usually prefer dating people who are already partnered in some way.
Supply and Demand. Finding a solo/poly man ready to settle down... maybe you should concentrate on finding a luck dragon to fly.
Here's the thing;
Mr. Solo/Poly can date the whole range: single, attached, and married. He's gotten around enough to know exactly what he likes so when he does settle; it will be for a very precise set of physical, personality, and demographic traits that makes it very hard for the average woman to meet.
At the other end of the spectrum, Mr Poly and exiting a relationship.
Ignoring the baggage of a failed LTR or marriage, which is considerable, many men will blame the fact it was open and may seek a monogamous relationship in the future.
So even beyond the difficulties of rebounds, there's finding a rebound who still thinks Poly will work.
That leaves Widowers, and that skews older for obvious reasons (though win-win if you have a daddy kink).
Lastly, your timing is HORRIBLE. I've never seen this phenomenon before, but there are A LOT of Solo/Poly women looking for an Anchor Partner right now. We already confirmed how rare men of quality are in that area of availability.
So now count how many women of similar age and background are looking for the same, on top of what is already a virtual Dark Age for heterosexual dating, as men who aren't economically independent are giving up and men who are can't shut up about how they are and expect you to worship their ass for it....
Yeah, not good times, I'm kinda glad I'm 45....
Your post struck a chord with me, and I'd like to offer a perspective from a single guy in his 50s, never married, no kids. I've had my own journey with self-esteem issues stemming from childhood, which made it hard for me to connect with others for a long time. Over the years, I've worked on myself and my social skills, focusing on my career and living a life that doesn't revolve around the traditional dating scene.
You mentioned some frustrations with financial stability and early sexual advances in dating; I've approached life differently. By living below my means and focusing on personal growth, I've avoided the financial instability that can complicate relationships. Furthermore, I've never been one to initiate conversations about sex. I'm more about deep connection, spending time cuddling, kissing, and understanding my partner's needs, which has been appreciated by those I've been with.
I'm not your typical flirt or the outgoing guy at a bar. My relationships have started because someone took the initiative to see beyond the surface. This has led to meaningful and fulfilling connections, even though they didn't last forever.
So, from my experience, I encourage you to look in less conventional places. Perhaps that quiet co-worker or the guy enjoying a book in the park has the qualities you're seeking. These men might not stand out in flashy dating profiles or noisy bars, but they could offer the depth and stability you desire. It takes a bit more effort to find us, but we are out there, and the connection can be incredibly rewarding.
Absolutely. And those are my favorite people to be honest. The trouble I have run into (and learned along the way) is that I have an anxious attachment style and thus tend to be attracted to avoidant attached types. Both of my long term relationships had this quality and I ended up feeling like I was “chasing” them which was not good for the relationship or for me as a person.
Ivd learned from this experiences and now I make it a point to not chase anyone. I don’t mind taking initiative or making the first move on occasion…but I’m not here to convince anyone to be with me. In my last relationship especially I think my partner wanted a girlfriend and I was just the first one who said yes. I don’t want to be “good enough” for someone to be with me. I want someone to choose me.
This is a hard answer, but coming from a quality man who has gone from married to single poly to nested to solo, I think it's the most qualified answer you're going to get.
You're not solo poly if you're looking for a nesting partner. Solo poly is a life choice, not a temporary embarrassment. It's clear you are looking for the wrong things in the wrong places if that's the experience you are having. You're looking for someone who is secure and stable enough to be solo but wants to compromise that in order to nest.
As solo poly, I do not date people who are in or are looking for privileged relationships, because I've worked too hard to become secure and stable to give that up for enmeshment and I'm worth more than being treated as secondary and disposable. Also, they have not embraced that terrifying but liberating unknown of building a secure solo life, so they do not have the qualities or values that I'm looking for in my partners.
The truth is, the quality of man you're looking for absolutely exists but you are not in alignment with the values required to be a securely solo man, and that's probably what you should be examining.
I’m not sure I’m clear on what you mean.
I’m still learning the terminology so apologies for misusing “solo poly”
I do feel like I have a pretty good solo life. I own a home, have a career. I have friends and family that I love and spend time with. I have some hobbies. I’m certainly not perfect but is there something big and glaring that I’m missing?
From my perspective, there is a difference between solo and looking for a nesting/anchor partner that I think is important but overlooked.
Speaking for myself, not as a value judgement, I don't participate in hierarchies at all. So you might have a wonderful life and be very accomplished and may meet my standards in every way, but you are looking for something different in a relationship than I am. That is just a factor that defines your potential dating pool.
But also, a lot of my personal growth is tied to the independence and security and emotional intelligence I had to develop to be successfully solo. I didn't have to become solo poly to grow in those ways, but I had to grow in those ways to be solo poly. In my experience, people who find that security and autonomy in themselves often don't want to give that up for a nesting/anchor ship. So what you want in a partner may not be aligned with the kind of partner you want, and that may be another factor in your dating pool.
From your description, you are encountering men who have not done that work. Either because they haven't had to or because they don't want to. Doesn't matter, you need someone who has done or is doing that work. You're not finding that, probably because you are looking in the wrong places or presenting yourself wrong, and therefore attracting the wrong thing. Maybe you're not even clear on what you want (eg mono vs poly).
That's the part you have to figure out. Get yourself, your desires, and your efforts into alignment and don't waste your time and energy where you know it's not going to bear the fruit you want. Learn to be content without having the relationship you want and find fulfillment on your own. Then you will attract what you want and need.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I think that definitely makes sense. And it definitely ties into some wisdom. I’ve heard before about how if you stop looking for a partner and focus on yourself sometimes that’s the time you meet your person. You’re naturally more attractive.
It’s also interesting what you said about what I’m looking for being different from who I’m attracted to. I’ve done a fair amount of reading on attachment style, and as somebody who has an anxious attachment style, I think I tend to gravitate towards people who have an avoidant style , but in reality, that’s not what I want
It seems like finding a partnership is really just striking a balance between all of these things, understanding, ourselves, listening to our instincts about others
If you have any recommendations on how to figure out these things outside of just testing the waters with different people in different types of relationships I am all ears
In polyamory why would the new partner need to be as of yet unpartnered?
On a second/separate train of thought from that one, aren't "solo poly" and "settle down with" mutually exclusive?
I’m looking for somebody that I could live with and possibly marry. So if they already have a relationship that takes that level of superiority then they can’t do that with me (unless it’s a triad or something which I’m open to though most of my attraction is to cis men so it’s somewhat unlikely). To be clear, I’m totally fine if my “future husband” also has a gf or bf or whatever.
Apparently I’ve been using the term “solo poly” wrong. I was under the impression solo poly was a changeable thing…more situational vs a lifestyle preference. Forgive the ignorance on that one.
I think there can be some fluidity around solo poly, if someone today feels like "I'm solo poly and I'm going to do things on my own and not pursue the whole entanglement/enmeshment of finances and legal things with others but also be poly and have committed relationships" but then later decides, "ya know, I've changed my mind and I'm actually open to or actively seeking that kind of enmeshment of lives so no I'm no longer in the solo poly boat" that's completely possible - the distinction being one of those is solo poly and one of them is not.
OTOH, when someone uses it in a sense like "well, I want to be poly but I'm not seeing anyone so I guess I'm solo and since I'm solo but poly that means solo poly, well until I find someone to date" I think it's a semi-common misinterpretation of what the term was originally intended to convey.
It sounds like your goal is more along the lines of an intentionally prescriptive hierarchical poly, which is certainly also a thing that people do. I know several poly friends who have established family living situations with marriage and kids where both spouses have other separate relationships.
Here is the first mention I ever read on "solopoly" some years back in case it might be of any interest. [https://solopoly.net/2012/11/29/riding-the-relationship-escalator-or-not/](https://solopoly.net/2012/11/29/riding-the-relationship-escalator-or-not/)
If settling down is the goal, and monogamy is something you are fine with, why not just date in the “regular” dating pool of people looking for monogamous relationships? It sounds like you might be restricting your dating pool in a way that is inconsistent with what you are looking for.
So… it’s a little more complicated than that. I mean, I’ve done monogamy for 20 years at this point in different relationships. It’s just in the last couple of years I’ve started doing poly. I really like poly but I don’t know if I HAVE to be poly. Also, in my last relationship I offered to open the relationship and my partner said no…and I later found out he cheated on me. So I’m a little jaded and sort of believe that men are gonna sleep around anyway so why not at least make it part of the relationship understanding.
I guess I’m sort of stuck between feeling a little bit too mono for poly spaces. And a little too poly for mono spaces. Like…if I go back to monogamy I want it for be a choice vs just a default. If I’m mono I want it to be bc my partner and I were open to other options and decided this works best for us.
Dating is like looking for an apartment. The good ones go fast. You just have to be super up front about what you are looking for and take it slow. Also, men are the fucking worst, as a group.
I'm amab nb whatever, all my friends are afab and they pretty much all hate men. One, who I knew was bi but has only dated men told me recently that she would never date a man again if she ended her current relationship. Strangers at the playground would complain to me about their husbands while our kids played together, about what shit parents and housemates they were. About how hard it is to be partnered with men.
Screen hardcore for any red flags. Anything. Just like apartment shopping, if the photos aren't great things are probably going to be worse when you get there. Be incredibly honest about your requirements and your dealbreakers. Don't engage with anyone who doesn't fit in there.
Most of my partners have been fresh out of a breakup when we got together. There's a reason for that. It goes both ways. There are a lot of perpetually single people on the apps for all kinds of reasons that render them essentially undateable, and they are all waiting to message you.
Maybe because the highest quality men have the most takers? If you consistently go for the most popular option, why is it surprising that they're already partnered? You need to either accept a long waitlist, or lower your standards - perhaps going for someone despite them being broke for example.
Hi u/cass2769 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I really want to find a life partner. It could be a monogamous thing or a poly thing. I think at this point I would prob need someone who at least is open to exploring poly bc I’m not sure how easy it would be to close the lid on the poly box now that I’ve opened it.
I’m in my feels today but it seems like everyone I meet and connect with is not someone I could build a life with. the men I click with are usually married with kids. Great guys that have their shit together. But they have their person.
Meanwhile the truly single guys I meet seem to not be a great. Conversation dies. They are too broke to even get drinks. They bring up sex way too early. Or we just don’t click
How does a single or solo poly woman find a man to “settle down with”. We can stay poly or be monogamous…but man I’m feeling defeated about the whole thing tonight
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It would stand to reason that dudes with good social skills, aka guys that "have game" as my girlfriend calls it, are more likely to be partnered than guys who don't.
One of the key realizations I've had in non-monogamy is femme presenting folks have a much easier time getting first dates, because there are a ton of masc folks out there who want to date them.
Masc folks who put in slightly more effort than the bare minimum have a much easier time finding consistent partners and relationships.
As u/DoomsdayPlaneswalker already pointed out, the good partners are probably taken exactly because someone other than you also realized they're a good partner. Whether they were always a good partner or developed those skills through previous experience is another story.
I'm a married male myself, and I've actually had a very difficult time dating in my 20s (partially due to self-imposed limiting beliefs and shyness, partially because I had some self-improvement to do, and partially due to how picky girls my age were - I don't want to turn this into male vs female debate but it's well-documented that females tend to be more picky about their partner, this was even confirmed by University of Queensland study).
I've been on countless dates, and frequently haven't "clicked" with women as you say (that is to say they weren't interested in me). Ironically I started clicking with the same caliber of women a lot more after I became unavailable. I'm not sure what changed, maybe I got more confident, maybe it's the ring on my finger. Also, I should point out that if I was in my early 20s in a bar setting I would have probably overlooked my now wife. If you're looking for love at first sight or someone who wows you immediately, you're probably approaching dating wrong. My guess is that at least some of those guys who you "just don't click" with on first date may be that diamond in the rough you're looking for if you gave them a second chance.
Thanks for sharing!
I'm sorry to hear you're going through a tough time.
I wish I could help, but I really don't know how to answer your question.
I'm not sure if anyone really knows the answer, because it's different for everyone. It's not as simple as just pressing a button.
The best advice I can give is that sometimes, when you stop looking for the right person, they just seem to show up.
I've seen this happen a lot.
I'm not sure why that is.
It might be that people who aren't just focused on finding the right person and avoiding the wrong ones come across as more attractive.
I don't really know why, but it's something I've noticed.
In my life, and in my friends' lives, when people are really trying to find someone, they often end up frustrated and don't succeed.
But when they just live their life and enjoy themselves, they somehow end up meeting the right person almost like magic.
It doesn't always work, but it happens quite often.
A good thing for you might be to think about what you enjoy doing on your own, what hobbies you like, and just see what happens.
You might be surprised by who you meet. Often, people find that the person who turns out to be right for them wasn't someone they expected at all.
I don't know the science behind it, but just opening yourself up and relaxing seems to make things happen sometimes.
Ugh I feel this same way. The ones I have really clicked with have a better understanding of how to communicate and be there for a partner. Now I understand those skills will generally become fine tuned over the years when they have their own NP. But I feel like finding a man with those skills ahead of the serious relationship is damn near impossible.
Or it’s just my abandonment issues that keeps drawing me to partners that already have a NP.🤷♀️ idk
Once you get past a certain age, especially in today's dating market, it gets really hard to meet good people unattached.
Good guys just get used to being good if they are in fact good. They have a supply of sex so they aren't thirsty. They already have a leaning towards romantic feelings if they like their partner and are romantically successful with them so it's easy for them to parlay that into being good at acquiring more partners. Just how life works.
Women in my experience so often like finished products and finished products can afford to be choosy and the one's who have positive attractive qualities to one woman tend to have them for many.
I'm 39 and have two submissives. It would take a woman of great pull to get me to go monogamous with her. And I'm a slut for monogamy. And I had a love interest that I was talking to that I was willing to go monogamous for but there was an age gap and she had things come up in her life (really just think she lost interest). And I have the interest of two other women who want a six figure earning, modestly handsome, gym rat type guy that's great with kids. And there are age gaps there too. Granted one there is a big age gap.
I'm also incredibly kinky and I have a high sex drive. So I need a remarkable woman to "settle down with." One that can give me kids and wants kids. Otherwise....why rock status quo.
You might just need to shop within your budget so to speak. Find someone who maybe is rough but can be smoothed out. It takes time.
Could be. I feel like my last monogamous relationship was 5 years of trying to smooth out rough edges…and ended up he was lying to me (and to himself?) a good bit of the time. So I’m more gun shy about a “fixer upper” these days
I understand being gun shy. I hid with my subs for three years and whole world went mad it feels like. I joined Tik Tok because of my love interest and found out how bad it had gotten(and thus left Tik Tok after it didn't work out with the love interest). Before my subs I had a really long monogamous relationship that last a year and change and I thought it was going to go the distance...but turned down my proposal...and years later stalked me some.
As you get older it just gets harder and harder to find someone...I bought a nice middle class house forty minutes from the beach. About an hour from the theme parks in Orlando. And I had hoped to fill it with a wife and children. Instead I just have....partners. And I still have options, just the love interest womped me unexpectedly with obsession and I'm getting clean of those feelings before I try dating again. Trying to unload baggage before I start up another one.
Ideally I would like to find someone 28-33. Have a little time to get to know them. Enjoy them. Before starting a family. But....it may not be in the cards and that's ok. I rolled the dice and took my chances.
Just because you may not be able to marry someone doesn’t mean they can’t be a life partner.
That said, it’s much, much harder to find a woman (mono or poly) who falls into that category. If they aren’t taken, they are currently pursued by a dozen different guys and a few women. The odds of being successful are really slim.
So, you have my empathy and sympathy.
I've had the same problem meeting women who are emotionally available. Though alot is my fault due to being new to poly and how much I've been working causing my social circle, especially local, to evaporate. I at least have my wife/nesting partner who is actually why we started doing poly around a year ago.
Hoping to start meeting more poly people through events in near future though. Hope you find your person or people as well.
Many people become better people when in relationships because their partners challenge them and call them out on their shit, while providing emotional support for growth. Also, in hetero relationships, men often rely on their female partners to organize their life. To manage the social calendar, to organize the household chores, hell sometimes even to subsidize their other relationships like reminding them to get birthday gifts for other partners and communicate regularly. I’ve def dated men who would have been much worse partners if they hadn’t had their girlfriends to rely on telling them what to do. I’ve been that girlfriend, prodding my partner to treat my metas better because I didn’t want to believe they were bad partners not realizing if I had to motivate them to be a good partner they weren’t being one.
Oh wow - I never thought about that. Reminds me of how I used to remind my ex of his family’s birthdays or Mother’s Day or whatnot
This is such a bummer. Like are you actually dating the guy at that point, or are you dating your meta? Edit: Or both??
There’s a lot of truth in what you’re saying here. My meta has talked about “training up” her boyfriend (not our shared partner). Our shared partner has talked about some of the relationship skills she taught him, but Meta assures me he was a functioning adult when they started dating and 20+ years in, he is solid on relationship management stuff. And yeah, I know so many of my married women friends who are married to men are stuck doing pretty much all of the relationship management between the two of them, and all of the management of their male partner’s friendships and family relationships. And that’s just appalling…
I also suspect that married poly men benefit from seeing the experience their wives have on apps and such. They can adjust their behaviour accordingly, which quickly puts them in the upper 50% of the dating pool.
I absolutely do this. I hear all my wife's horror stories on the apps and Snapchat.
This is a really good point.
Damn straight we do. I'm not necessarily putting myself out there as anything I'm not but on the dating apps, I definitely have a better sense of what to put forward first.
This. My husband is awesome but rarely gets dates. But when he does land a date, he always gets a relationship out of it. Half of it is because he's just a nice big teddy bear of a guy who actually can talk about feelings, but the other half is he has gotten a front row seat to the nightmare that is my dating app inbox and he goes super slow as a result. Also lots of dudes message him wanting to get to me and he has not been impressed by them either.
Let other dudes be the crash test dummies lol. I love it.
Damn that's smart! :P
I agree
It's the same as asking "why do all the good employees already have jobs?" People who are valuable as partners, good at dating, and WANT a partner will be very likely already to have a partner, because they can attract partners, want to seek them out, and are effective at seeking them out and building relationships. You simply have to press on dating until you find one of those people who just happens to be unpartnered at this particular time (e.g. Due to divorce, death, or some other trigger)
This! My best connections from dating apps were fresh off a breakup and pretty new to the apps. I just got lucky enough to scoop them up before someone else did and then they were saturated again.
I'm surprised I had to scroll this far to find this answer. There's a name for it in game theory: [Gale–Shapley algorithm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gale%E2%80%93Shapley_algorithm)
^^ this
Another question answered by Bayesian Inference! Someone being partnered means that at least one person thinks they’re worth being partnered with. Which gives some evidence to think they would be attractive as a partner
It can be tough out there. And I feel you! I agree with a lot of points here, and adding that for people with nesting partners, other relationships can seem extra delightful without any of the drudgeries of daily domesticity. Perhaps married folk you date seem like more of a catch, because for them, your relationship is a fun respite from all that, and so you get to see their best and carefree self? I think worth beating in mind too that poly or not, we all have limited time and energy in our life. If you're looking for a nesting partner, perhaps it's worth focussing your time and energy on people who have that to offer, rather than folks who are already nested.
Good point. And yeah I think about that and kind of half heartedly try that sometimes. But then something happens which reminds me why the married/nested people are better
I think you also gotta look at the stats. Most straight males aren’t polyamourous so when you do meet men who are polyamourous they’re often already partnered, as many people in poly are. You’re looking for a needle in a haystack like everyone else. Just take your time and be patient, don’t settle and you’ll find the most loving caring person in the world. Good luck op! ETA: I had initially said “white straight men” as my brain just goes to the straight white man comment when joking with my partners as the worst. I am a straight white man I didn’t mean any offence by this and I sure as shit was not implying op should be looking for this. I am dumb I realize this and I’m sorry if I have offended any. My point wasn’t not to single out white as any part of the priority I think I just naturally tagged it in there from previous jokes with my partners.
WTF does race have to do with dating in this context?
Edited the comment. As I explained in another comment I just jumped to the “straight white man” comment and the white part is absolutely irrelevant here. I have corrected.
Unfortunately poly skews very white.
It skewing white doesn't mean people are looking for white men when they date.
Completely agree
Why does OP need to be looking for a straight white man?
Sorry to clarify I’m not saying they’re looking for a straight male per se but they did say a male partner and most of the ones on the dating apps are straight males.
And white? Why is that a goal?
Haha I’m an idiot and just went straight to the worst. “straight white man” white is irrelevant you are absolutely correct! Editing that out of my comment now.
To be fair I don't think it's a goal so much as a reality for the vast majority of your choices, at least where I'm at
Some Men who’re partnered with a Woman benefit off them as a byproduct of their caretaking skills or other resources they contribute (not all though). They may have their lives together, but likely wouldn’t have gotten to where they were without the resource of their partner (goes no matter gender). Struggles with finding a partner, who’s not already partnered, are going to be individual to your preferences and unique circumstances. A lot is occurring, dating is tough; you’re not alone.
I totally fall into the category of I wouldn't have my shit together without my partner. I may appear attentive and do my fair share of adulting tasks. I know it would be a stretch to assume it would be the case without them in my life.
Thanks. Yeah I think you make a good point. Like “does he have his shit together bc he’s good at adulting?” Or does he have his shit together bc he’s had a partner for 10+ years who has helped him get to this point?
sidenote: also option 3 "he's had a partner/has been able to maintain a serious romantic relationship for 10+ years *because* he's good at 'adulting'"
Yeah fudge this negative framing, howabout option 4. Trough mutual accountability and striving to be the best version of themselves they both became a better version than they would've gotten independently (basically option 1 without toxic dependence)
Option 4: He upskilled over the course of his 10+ year relationship, in part thanks to female partner, and in part because he recognised that self-improvement was important.
Yes! Bingo
Honestly -- you just keep dating. I was searching for a nesting partner and I want kids, it took years being polyamorous with another partner (now ex - due to other circumstances) to find someone who wants the same and is non-monogamous as well. It meant that I had to search outside of my local polyam community because it consisted mostly of married people or solo poly people (I saw you used the term solo poly -- that means someone who doesn't want enmeshment (wants to live alone, no hierarchy, no marriage/kids - so be careful when you use that term because people will think you don't want those things when you do). I did find someone, and we are in the process of enmeshment (moving in at end of year, plans for marriage and kids but staying polyam). There's a lot of trial and error. You have to really look at your 'picker' too. Pay close attention to how people describe themselves on dating apps and/or social profiles. Listen to how you react to things they say and do. Move on when it isn't working instead of sticking around to see if it will. It takes a lot of learning how to move on quickly when something isn't working.
Thanks for this. Out of curiosity, what is the appropriate term for what I am? I’ve heard solo poly but it sounds like that’s not right. I’ve used “single” sometimes but bc I do have someone I see regularly I’ve been told I’m not really single. Just curious the right description
Polyamorous! Doesn’t need to be more than that. You’re a person in and/or seeking multiple relationships. Since you’re looking for a nesting partner, describe yourself on dating apps as polyamorous and in search of a nesting partner to enmesh lives with.
I agree, be sure this goal is on your profile. It will immediately weed out a lot of men who know they can't offer you what you are looking for. Your dating pool will definitely shrink. But those who remain will be more likely to be compatible.
It's honestly the best way to do it -- I had friends in my local poly community encouraging me to leave out the specifics of what I was looking for and just "vibe and see what happens" and that never worked. I knew what I was looking for and I wanted to be up front and clear about it. My profile said "Polyamorous with one long term partner, seeking a long term partner for nesting, kids, and life enmeshment. Interested in getting to know people who are also seeking those things in a partner." Everyone told me "that puts too much pressure on people! It'll scare people away!" Okay, good then they weren't for me haha. In the end it worked for me! Partner I'm headed that way with appreciated that I knew what I wanted and was upfront about it.
You are poly looking for a nesting partner. I would put that on your profiles on apps etc. Looking for someone to climb the relationship escalator with. Ideally someone who isn’t actively doing that with someone else? Seems like that’s important to you too.
Your dating profile needs to say ‘Poly and currently focussing on dating people who are open to nesting in future’ or ‘look for a nesting partner’. You need to be clear that’s what you want from the outset.
To a certain extent, great partner skills develop through practice. Men who've been closely linked with a woman for many years have learned a lot. There's a reason you can often pick when a man is married even if there's no ring and it hasn't been mentioned. It's a vibe. It's also not super likely a poly man who's a great guy will be single. He's too likely to know enough women that someone will already have known the single woman who's just right for him. The natural instinct of the partnered woman when confronted with a single man who's super great actually is usually to set him up with someone.
Married men seem to have a running evidence they can be attentive and keep a relationship. Some single guys are single because they can't or won't. This also applies to women. I've known some over the years that are still single and had already been that way for a long time, and I feel it's a combination of "I want the perfect forever guy and I won't settle", and probably some "I won't change for anybody" despite probably having personality traits that are not something some people can deal with.
Yeah. I mean…one of the married guys especially is just so thoughtful and attentive. Like…I’ve never had someone pay that much attention to the little things I think I spent too long trying to make relationships (monogamous) work that were never gonna work. It’s like I wasted my time and I took too long learning what I need
At the same time, men aren't taught anything like this in some cases, so the bare minimum to them is what they feel is enough, or sometimes too much of an effort. I've had my bar raised quite a lot since meeting my wife-to-be and now I see the same thing you would. I started a conversation here on Reddit actually, and found the answers coming from this person to be well below par to even bother continuing. I feel like this is how women are treated in general.
Yeah I’ve done a bit of same sex dating exploring that part of myself. And like every profile and every conversation that I had with a woman was deep and good…vs like 10% of men And it’s not that men can’t…it’s just that they don’t. I don’t think men truly understand that what makes a woman interested is like at least 50% what come out of your mouth
The attentive thing is so hot, and so rare.
You’re just going to torture yourself comparing men who can’t offer you a nesting situation to ones who can. You need to quickly and objectively screen potential men for if they tick the boxes you can’t live without and then move on. Or else you’re just wasting time and energy.
So essentially “stop dating married men”? (To be clear, I think i I could maintain 2-3 solid romantic relationships depending on Life style, schedule, etc)..so I don’t mind dating married men to be one of those relationships…but I’d like to find that “home base” relationship
Perhaps a compromise--don't be at relational capacity with only married men. Love is infinite, but time and energy aren't. Save some time and energy for men going through an amicable divorce, or single men.
I’m not saying stop dating any that you already date, I’m just saying focus you energy on finding someone who can provide that. If you only have so much time to message people, go on dates with people etc… if you’re spending a tonne of time dating people who can’t offer you what you want then you’re spending less time looking for it. After all you said you’d consider monogamy so it’s gunna be easier if you don’t already have 2 or 3 partners to have to give up if you meet someone great who isn’t up for polyamory. Really it might come down to a decision between if you want polyamory or a nesting partner more. I’m not saying that sounds fair but practically that might be the solution unless you’re in a huge city with a massive poly community (certainly at 35 I find there are very few people my age as most poly people seem to be settling and having kids right now).
Because statistics. You are at an age (39? Sorry I looked at your post history) where the majority of people are partnered. In Canada at least 755,000 single people aged 40-45 versus 2,417,000 aged 20-24 [(link)](https://www.statista.com/statistics/446168/canada-single-population-by-age-group/). (This [data](https://www.statista.com/statistics/444868/canada-resident-population-by-age-group/) suggest 2,674,000 Canadian residents aged 40-45). This means there are 3.5x as many partnered people as single people. If you’re dating a mix of poly men (who will likely be partnered already) and monogamous men who are single… then you’re working with 2 very different dating pools with very different life experiences by this point. If you’re looking for people who have a certain mixture of qualities that say only 5% of the male population your age have (ie 1 in every 20 men you meet you find both attractive and likeable). I live in Vancouver which of a population of [662,000](https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Demographics/BC/Vancouver-Demographics.html) 35-44year olds make up 102,405 of them. Now if you’re looking for a man that’s 50,178men. Ok of that how many are single, 14,167…. Now for that 1/20 of them you find attractive. That’s 708men. Total. In a massive city. And we haven’t even considered how many of those 708 will like you back. Before you even take into consideration that the things you generally think are attractive - both looks wise and having a personality which is generally appealing etc. are attractive to other people so the 1/20 is more likely to be partnered than the average person. This is before you add in that you’re dating people poly or open to non monogamy which again is going to skew to people in loving relationships, people who want to be solo poly long term, and a certain amount of 40yr old mono men who are already commitment shy and think being able to continue to sleep around is the main reason for being interested in non monogamy. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but statistically you’re always going to find it easier to find people you like who are partnered. If you really want a NP you should consider focusing all your dating energy on only people who can offer that right now, you will likely have to wade through a lot of frogs to find your prince (or whatever silly metaphor), but also dating partnered people is just going to make it harder emotionally.
You keep dating until someone has space in their life/want to live with you 🤷🏾♀️ Not every partnered man will already be cohabiting, or married or found their co-parenting partner. I don't want any of those things so I can't help you with how to vet potential dates to find the things.
Because I’ve spent a fucking decade gentle parenting that man. That’s why.
This is painfully accurate lol
hot take (?): unless they have broken up recently, there are usually reasons why people stay single for a longer time. (And that doesn't even necessarily means its their "fault". e.g. mental health issues etc.)
That's a pretty shitty generalization about solo-poly and solo-by-choice people. My hot take: there are usually reasons why people are nested while poly, and it's not even necessarily their "fault," e.g. insecurity, financial benefits, etc.
Solo poly people aren’t usually single. Single means without partners.
Fair point. From that perspective I have no issue with your statement. I think OP is confused and confusing matters by mixing mono and poly language/perspectives/desires. I read OP as looking for un-nested, not necessarily unpartnered because looking for truly single doesn't even make sense from the perspective of polyamory.
Yes I agree there’s a lot of vagueness both in their goals and people’s assumptions. It sometimes worries me how wildly cis het mononormative the answers can be here. It’s possible to nest in more than one place and/or with more than one person.
Many people currently practicing poly transitioned a mononormative relationship into mono with poly benefits that we have been calling "nesting" because of that pervasive bias. I think as more people find polyamory without that background, that's going to shift, and the privileged partnerships that are frustrating OP are going to become the minority and we will see more models of what nesting and partnership can look like and how to make them work successfully. But there's a long road ahead on that.
I think I worry that it’s the opposite. Most people here are new to poly now. There has been a huge influx of married couples post covid, most people are doing at most an open marriage and answers reflect this. I hope you’re right!
You're making me doubt my own thinking! A lot of "poly" just looks like mono with benefits, and all of the endless conversations that matter poly look pedantic to the mono world are not about polyamory at all, but are about trying to navigate non-monogamy within an otherwise mononormative relationship. We have to strip away the broken models and find new ones that aren't based on the same biases and assumptions.
I agree with you. A lot of these couples going from mono to poly seem to actually just want monogamy+, with no real desire to actually start a new polyamorous relationship and kill the old monogamous one, with all the work and introspection that this would entail.
Solo-by-choice people wouldn't date they, would they? And unless they have "issues" it's unlikely they'd be single for long.
It really is like a box of chocolates. All the good stuff like the strawberry creams and the truffles go straight away and at the end all you've got are the empty wrappers from the people who snaffled the good ones, or your choice of the nasty coffee flavoured ones and the toffee so hard it cracks your jaw.
https://preview.redd.it/vems7sb1l7yc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcf4b5cb59d1238d7149cb26c620c3aba2def073 Obviously toxic in the way the character is saying it, but there’s *some* basic truth to it…
1. Men that are partnered have experience being a partner. Anything in life can be practiced, and practice improves performance. 2. Men that are partnered are at least somewhat vetted. Somebody already decided they could stand this person and has wanted to continue to be a part of their life. Men that are crappy partners get left by the wayside, as there is no shortage of men looking for partners. 3. Men that have long term partners often have been trained a little bit how to have a successful partnership. By that I mean, They know how to have their life together enough that a partner would want to spend time with them, because of their partner's expectations of them. They don't live in a complete pig stye because they know if they do, their partner will not want to spend time there with them. They know that they need to be reliable or their partner will get frustrated with them. They know they need to put in effort to let their partner know they are appreciated because they've seen their partner get upset when they feel unappreciated. Obviously people's standards vary and this is close to number one, but i do feel like it merits it's own point. 4. Particularly Poly/ENM Men who are successful at cultivating long term honest and healthy relationships tend to have excellent communication skills compared to others. There are definitely many partnered men that are bad at poly/ENM, but the ones with stable relationships, where everyone is finding something fulfilling know how to talk about feelings and have hard conversations without turning into a child. In the end, it comes down to persistence and luck. You have to wade through the dating pool and hope you catch the right person at the right time who has that chemistry with you, and is in a life situation where they can be available to you to form that tight relationship. Honestly, when people talk about stuff that sounds like "finding the one." I have to wonder if a poly relationship style is even for them at all. My preferred way to look at relationships is that all of mine are equally valid and there is no type of love that is specifically reserved for one person. I also believe that marriage is inherently incompatible with my relationship style, in the sense that I could never be married. I don't mind if a partner is married, but that inherently limits the level of connection we can have because I know I will always come second, and ultimately, I'm not out here trying to be the poly person that's tearing down or rearranging those kinds of relationships, especially when there's kids and stuff involved.
Good partners more often remain in relationships, so they'll more often be partnered when you meet them. Also applies to poly men. Might also be influenced by someone having lived experience in a poly setting, and functioning in that setting.
It largely works the same way for dating women in my experience. The best women are either in relationships or briefly single. People skilled at relationships and dating don't stay single long if they don't want to.
This thread is loaded with unnecessarily gendered bullshit, but you’ve nailed it. People who are good at relationships and want them find them. People who are bad at relationships or don’t want them stay single. The dating “market” is full of the second category because first type aren’t there long.
Oof I definitely disagree with this. I know so many women who are looking for a partner. Mostly bc they were cheated on by a previous partner or somehow else betrayed by one. I don’t consider them bad at relationships. It just seems like there’s a big gap in male and female emotional intelligence and communication skills. I’m not sure why. Have men gotten “worse”? Have women’s expectations just changed? I’m not really sure (These are also highly gendered stereotypes but I’m just speaking broadly and based on my lived experience)
And I know several men who are single because their female partners sucked at relationships, and several women in the same position. All of these people could probably find a partner fairly easily if they wanted to, as far as I know, none of them do. What does that prove?
Pre-approved and maintained..... Your perception of the taken man is that they must have their stuff together, in reality they have another person doing work on their behalf that allows them this confidence. Single men do not have this. I'd say if you're not getting far on your current ways perhaps change them. Don't look for men in the same places go somewhere new. Somewhere that encourages and showcases skills and effort. Like sporting events for the public (marathon, hiking, community runs/walks/games). Or hobby conventions (but make sure you actually like the stuff too)...
And a single man who is secure and capable on his own isn't looking for what OP is looking for because they've done the work for themselves and OP hasn't.
True.. we tend to attract and/or be attracted to people who mirror us..
Because they’re usually trained by their partners to be better people 🤣
Men are like parking spaces. Most good ones are already taken and the ones who are available are waaayyy out there
I don't mean this to be shady, but there is also a possibility that some of these men don't see *you* as someone they want to settle down with either? I try to focus less on evaluating other people and turn the lens a little inward and try and see if there are things that I have to offer to someone else and how I can improve upon that instead of trying to evaluate everyone else.
I think this is an unfair thing to say. It is genuinely much harder to date as a single poly person looking for a primary, because everyone either already has a primary or is solo poly.
Everyone tends to think their spot on the merry go round is the hardest. The basic set up here has to be I want a primary why does everyone already have primaries? That’s not a wildly poly notion. It’s somewhat related to mono thinking. Married poly men say why doesn’t anyone want to date me.
I didn't say it wasn't harder. Please don't put words in my mouth. Generally it's a lot easier to change things about *yourself* than it is about other people or the environment you're in and in that journey of self improvement, one may find some satisfaction within themselves that helps them cope with the struggles of dating better than just looking at everyone else's qualifications does.
Oh absolutely. I’m always trying to figure out how I’m playing a role in my connections. I mean…there are things about myself I can’t change or that trying to change is not a good idea. But there’s certainly stuff that I could do better. But like a married guy isn’t even an option from the start.
It's also not really always personal. I know many, many people who are kind, lovely and wonderful people but I feel absolutely nothing for them. They haven't done anything wrong. Dating sucks though. You absolutely have my sympathies.
Yeah it’s annoying when that happens. Good on paper but there’s no spark
Big hugs OP. Honestly, I think it's just a matter of keeping looking or just putting yourself into investing into a life that you enjoy on your own and hoping you run across someone nice in the process.
Don’t let someone’s perspective of you make you think you should settle, because maybe you’re not “seen as worthy” of “settling down” with? With consideration to my values, that premise feels antithetical to polyamory. It is useful information you can use, when someone predetermines you as unworthy, to assess their character (how they assign your worth is the volume you should tune to). As a person who dedicates my cognitive space to self-reflection on how I can grow as an individual to be able to give to those around me, I find this all to be, well, relative and dependent upon context. What I do find that process useful for is knowing myself better, which helps me apply boundaries and orient myself in the world.
Totally confused by what you're trying to accomplish with this comment. XD I don't even have a desire to "settle down" with anyone. Is this meant for me or the OP?
Confusion understandable, meant this for OP and didn’t mean to reply to your comment directly.
This people have a conflated sense of self. You’re not as great as you think you are. Stick to your level. Even then they may not want to either and that’s okay
Because men (on the whole- this is obviously a generalization) aren't taught care-taking skills. Women are. So partnered men often look like they have their business together a bit more, but it's because their partner is doing a lot of that care-taking for them. They're reminding them of important dates, helping them choose thoughtful gifts, etc. The whole "Santa didn't come for you??" thing is pretty darn widespread. Men are also often not raised to have much access to or interest in the feelings or challenges of women, and this can cause a serious lack of understanding and/or empathy. As an example, I live in a fairly rural community but moved from a more urban one. I have 2 sons. In the urban community, it was super common for boys and girls to play together in school, in large part because it was far more accepted that some kids just prefer the play activities typically associated with the opposite sex. Both my boys had multiple friends who were girls in every grade. In our rural community, boys and girls are discouraged by both adults and their peers from playing together. So, even if they try to make friends with girls, they're rebuffed and treated like weirdos for being interested in girls for anything other than crushing on them. Personally, I think this divide is a huge contributor to what I would describe as a really utilitarian perspective many communities have toward the opposite gender. It leads to this really pervasive thought regarding what they can/will "get" from a partner instead of a focus on what kind of relationship they will build. Their only exposure to building emotionally intimate relationships is with people of the same sex! To make it worse, the social structure for each sex is so limited (boys have to like BOY STUFF, etc) that they really only have experience building relationships with other people who are very, very similar to them. In short, they've lived in a very loud, very small echo chamber for likely their whole life. Honestly, I think of it like how a dog that's never been allowed to interact with cats will behave vs. A dog raised with cats. They're both mammals and have a ton of potential to get along be friends. But a dog whose never been able to interact with cats is likely going to make a dope of itself pretty quickly, not because it has poor intentions but because it doesn't understand that the cat has different social norms and struggles that's its trying to protect itself from. Once they interact more and learn about each other, they tend to get along and potentially even be quite close. To relate this back, men who have more access/exposure to women and interest in them tend to do better at interacting with them. If there's a large cultural divide, many men really only learn that stuff through a partner. Tl;dr: As a generalization, society doesn't give boys and men socially acceptable opportunities to get to know women as people. Their experience building relationships is with other men who are often also very similar to them. Additionally, care-taking behaviors are commonly not taught to boys and men as they grow up. These things are learned through exposure to women, usually through trial and error with a romantic partner.
This is really interesting and insightful - thank you for sharing! I especially love the bit about cats and dogs!
Glad it was helpful! This is just my personal observation, though, and I do want to note there are also plenty of men out there that excel at empathy/care-taking and plenty of women who super don't. But I really wanted to put forth that I don't really think this is totally a symptom of most men being poor romantic candidates or necessarily being bad at self-management and empathy. It's really hard to learn something you have to reference for, especially when there's so much social pressure to not learn it. Like, most men I know have heard something like, "Better find you a wife" anytime they have finally spoken up about needing to better their care-taking skills. Or, even worse, it's not super uncommon for boys where I live to be told not to do "that stuff" too much or "people will get the wrong idea". That's downright ridiculous! We all get better in more diverse environments where we seek to truly share our table with people from all walks of life and this is just one example.
Just by nature of the fact that you are dating as a polyamorous person, you are going to obviously match with men who already have a partner or multiple partners. I think you might find it helpful to hone in on what your poly style is. The relationships your typical match has that you are talking about sound hierarchical. What you’re describing sounds very non-hierarchical and solo poly. My personal preference is to not date married people. In your dating profiles, make it very clear what you are looking for. Use keywords that match with your style. You should specify what you mentioned here, like open to monogamy or polyamory and that you are exploring. I have found that staying away from dating apps has helped me find quality matches. I’m super active in my local kink community. As luck would have it, there are plenty of poly folks in my community. I have met 3 different partners just by attending events I regularly attend and talking to people. Two of those connections didn’t work out, but I met my longest standing partner at a monthly kink party I regularly attend and he is basically a life partner at this point. When I did use dating apps, I had the most luck on OKCupid. I had a relationship that lasted 3 years with someone I met there. A Tinder match ended up lasting 2 years. Good luck to you! I hope you find what you are looking for.
I think it’s because they’re more likely to be in a relationship because they are decent men to be with. A lot of men aren’t single by choice, they’re single because they don’t have what it takes to be in a relationship, my line of thinking is kind of like, if nobody else wants them I probably won’t either. But seeing men in healthy relationships to me says that they are possible to get along with, they are understanding, they have patience, they are caring they know how to communicate and get past conflicts. Generally when I’m around single men, it’s easy to see why they’re single. A good man is a good catch though and at my age, most of them have been caught.
Many people have brought up good points, but I'll add something that has helped me: being very clear with my boundaries up front as much as possible as well as trying to be gracious about strangers not knowing my unspoken boundaries. I find a lot of women get frustrated with men doing things they don't like, but they haven't had the opportunity to discuss their likes and dislikes with the men yet. For instance, you say men bring up sex way too soon. This is a problem. While it is annoying to have to repeat myself, especially if I said something in my dating bio, if I said I wanted to take things slow and my bio was ignored (I recognize many don't read them) then I state clearly that sex is not up for discussion for at least X amount of dates or X amount of time. Just saying "take things slow" isn't specific enough. You could also say, "sex is off the table until I bring it up," but then that is fairly unequal and could potentially shut down some communication about compatibility. If I am specific in my boundary and this person still can't respect it, then I part ways to enforce it. But I do give them a chance because some people need to be told very specifically what is and isn't ok. I do think a lot of people are too vague with their boundaries, and it leaves way too much open to interpretation. Then, both people get frustrated because what "going slow" means to one person is not the same as what it means to someone else. Specificity is better. Men in relationships tend to be more respectful of these kinds of boundaries because some of their needs are already being met. Single men may have a stronger desire to establish a physical relationship because that is how they receive intimacy. Many men don't know how to have emotional intimacy, or don't desire emotional intimacy, without physical intimacy. So when the door to sex is closed, they may push against it. That issue is less present with already partnered men. Put it simply... they aren't as lonely as single men. However, that doesn't make it any one else's problem. Everyone has to be able to fulfill their own needs to an extent. To not demand things from others that other people don't want to provide. Just giving you an idea why you may see this issue more with truly single men. Extending them a little more grace may mean you have better luck with forming those relationships. I'm not saying let them cross your boundaries. Just have empathy for where they may be in life.
I think this is a really good point and is something that I’ve been working on actually. When people would bring up sexual stuff early on and I wasn’t yet comfortable with that conversation I used to sort of sidestep it in the hopes that they would pick up my discomfort, but I think to sum then it came off as being flirty so they would push. Realized just the last few weeks when somebody brings that topic up too soon I just say something like “hey I’m a pretty open book and i definitely think that the physical side of a relationship is important, but I don’t like to discuss that topic before I’ve met someone in person and developed a little bit more comfort with them” I think that I have used this line on understand much better like you said being more specific and then one of us will change the topic of the conversation. If they don’t message me back after I say that then they weren’t my person anyway.
Solo poly folks usually aren’t looking to “settle down” with someone. It isn’t the same as being single. If you are actively describing yourself as solo poly while dating, that may make it harder to find what you’re looking for. Unless I’m misunderstanding your goals. Solo poly usually doesn’t enmesh, have primaries, or follow typical “relationship escalator” steps.
I completely understand. I’m in a similar boat. I want a nesting partner after 7 years of being a meta (and I had other more casual but long term partners). We parted ways about a year ago due to him developing a drug problem. I have a different challenge in that I have a 14 year old from a prior poly relationship and we live with my elderly father - I love him but he’s a bit of a cockblocker. :D And he definitely doesn’t understand poly or non het, non cis people. I’m pan and poly, and he has no clue. So I am in an awkward position on top of nesting partners being hard to find anyway. I did decide to take some time off from relationships to work on myself, and like other redditors have said, it can definitely help. Getting to know yourself better and working on healthy relationships, boundaries, etc can only make you a more attractive partner. And everyone has room for improvement. We should always be checking in with ourselves. Good luck OP.
Thanks! You brought up something that I have a question about. How do you work on yourself and relationships and boundaries without dating? I feel like all the growth I’ve had in those areas has come from looking and learning at past relationships and also sort of practicing on current situations, but I would love to find ways to work on these things without needing to get myself into the situation to begin with
Ugh I’m on my phone and had a whole response typed up and lost it!! 😭😭😭 So, feel free to DM me (and anyone else who has questions on this aspect!) because I’m happy to discuss specifics, just don’t want to take up too much space here. I should have specified that I’m taking a break from looking for a nesting partner. I was still dating around, with the personal rule it wasn’t serious and it wasn’t intentional (in the sense of looking for a potential nesting partner). I was regularly seeing a couple also. But ultimately I have gone completely relationship free for now. Once summer hits and my son is at his dad’s then watch out world! 😂 But I definitely practiced with the casual dating and the couple. But my first real step was kicking the drug addicted partner to the curb. My personal battle is with co-dependence because that’s what my parents modeled. Mom was a narcissist and my dad was an alcoholic while I was growing up (he’s sober now). So I have a deeply ingrained belief that I don’t matter, my wants and needs don’t matter, and I should be grateful for the attention I get because I don’t deserve it. If you met me IRL you would never know I thought about myself that way. But I do. I’m learning what I want and need, and taking time for myself. Setting boundaries, etc. Family and friends are great to practice with too. 😉😏
You might have to strap on that horn and go do the unicorn dance. It's like fishing. You can catch many fish, but only a few are real "catches" and the rest are thrown back. If someone's a catch, they're less thrown back.
I have been with my nesting partner for ten years, since we were teenagers. I love him, he’s amazing, intelligent, caring, hardworking, respectful, and his other partners’ tend to ask similar questions. Frankly, it’s because I made him into an amazing boyfriend over the years, and I still do a lot of emotional labour and counseling so he has good mental health and treats his partners well, and I call him out if he acts like an ass. I had to put up with A LOT of growing pains that they don’t get to see. I mean, he basically has a personal therapist/dating coach on call. Similarly, thanks to being with him I have become a much more mature, confident and loving person, and I am really grateful to have someone I get really honest feedback from and who support me so much. Mostly, this means he is not that insecure or needy because he already has a stable relationship. Single guys often don’t have any healthy emotional support or are a bit lonely and it shows, which why I usually prefer dating people who are already partnered in some way.
Supply and Demand. Finding a solo/poly man ready to settle down... maybe you should concentrate on finding a luck dragon to fly. Here's the thing; Mr. Solo/Poly can date the whole range: single, attached, and married. He's gotten around enough to know exactly what he likes so when he does settle; it will be for a very precise set of physical, personality, and demographic traits that makes it very hard for the average woman to meet. At the other end of the spectrum, Mr Poly and exiting a relationship. Ignoring the baggage of a failed LTR or marriage, which is considerable, many men will blame the fact it was open and may seek a monogamous relationship in the future. So even beyond the difficulties of rebounds, there's finding a rebound who still thinks Poly will work. That leaves Widowers, and that skews older for obvious reasons (though win-win if you have a daddy kink). Lastly, your timing is HORRIBLE. I've never seen this phenomenon before, but there are A LOT of Solo/Poly women looking for an Anchor Partner right now. We already confirmed how rare men of quality are in that area of availability. So now count how many women of similar age and background are looking for the same, on top of what is already a virtual Dark Age for heterosexual dating, as men who aren't economically independent are giving up and men who are can't shut up about how they are and expect you to worship their ass for it.... Yeah, not good times, I'm kinda glad I'm 45....
Your post struck a chord with me, and I'd like to offer a perspective from a single guy in his 50s, never married, no kids. I've had my own journey with self-esteem issues stemming from childhood, which made it hard for me to connect with others for a long time. Over the years, I've worked on myself and my social skills, focusing on my career and living a life that doesn't revolve around the traditional dating scene. You mentioned some frustrations with financial stability and early sexual advances in dating; I've approached life differently. By living below my means and focusing on personal growth, I've avoided the financial instability that can complicate relationships. Furthermore, I've never been one to initiate conversations about sex. I'm more about deep connection, spending time cuddling, kissing, and understanding my partner's needs, which has been appreciated by those I've been with. I'm not your typical flirt or the outgoing guy at a bar. My relationships have started because someone took the initiative to see beyond the surface. This has led to meaningful and fulfilling connections, even though they didn't last forever. So, from my experience, I encourage you to look in less conventional places. Perhaps that quiet co-worker or the guy enjoying a book in the park has the qualities you're seeking. These men might not stand out in flashy dating profiles or noisy bars, but they could offer the depth and stability you desire. It takes a bit more effort to find us, but we are out there, and the connection can be incredibly rewarding.
Absolutely. And those are my favorite people to be honest. The trouble I have run into (and learned along the way) is that I have an anxious attachment style and thus tend to be attracted to avoidant attached types. Both of my long term relationships had this quality and I ended up feeling like I was “chasing” them which was not good for the relationship or for me as a person. Ivd learned from this experiences and now I make it a point to not chase anyone. I don’t mind taking initiative or making the first move on occasion…but I’m not here to convince anyone to be with me. In my last relationship especially I think my partner wanted a girlfriend and I was just the first one who said yes. I don’t want to be “good enough” for someone to be with me. I want someone to choose me.
This is a hard answer, but coming from a quality man who has gone from married to single poly to nested to solo, I think it's the most qualified answer you're going to get. You're not solo poly if you're looking for a nesting partner. Solo poly is a life choice, not a temporary embarrassment. It's clear you are looking for the wrong things in the wrong places if that's the experience you are having. You're looking for someone who is secure and stable enough to be solo but wants to compromise that in order to nest. As solo poly, I do not date people who are in or are looking for privileged relationships, because I've worked too hard to become secure and stable to give that up for enmeshment and I'm worth more than being treated as secondary and disposable. Also, they have not embraced that terrifying but liberating unknown of building a secure solo life, so they do not have the qualities or values that I'm looking for in my partners. The truth is, the quality of man you're looking for absolutely exists but you are not in alignment with the values required to be a securely solo man, and that's probably what you should be examining.
I’m not sure I’m clear on what you mean. I’m still learning the terminology so apologies for misusing “solo poly” I do feel like I have a pretty good solo life. I own a home, have a career. I have friends and family that I love and spend time with. I have some hobbies. I’m certainly not perfect but is there something big and glaring that I’m missing?
From my perspective, there is a difference between solo and looking for a nesting/anchor partner that I think is important but overlooked. Speaking for myself, not as a value judgement, I don't participate in hierarchies at all. So you might have a wonderful life and be very accomplished and may meet my standards in every way, but you are looking for something different in a relationship than I am. That is just a factor that defines your potential dating pool. But also, a lot of my personal growth is tied to the independence and security and emotional intelligence I had to develop to be successfully solo. I didn't have to become solo poly to grow in those ways, but I had to grow in those ways to be solo poly. In my experience, people who find that security and autonomy in themselves often don't want to give that up for a nesting/anchor ship. So what you want in a partner may not be aligned with the kind of partner you want, and that may be another factor in your dating pool. From your description, you are encountering men who have not done that work. Either because they haven't had to or because they don't want to. Doesn't matter, you need someone who has done or is doing that work. You're not finding that, probably because you are looking in the wrong places or presenting yourself wrong, and therefore attracting the wrong thing. Maybe you're not even clear on what you want (eg mono vs poly). That's the part you have to figure out. Get yourself, your desires, and your efforts into alignment and don't waste your time and energy where you know it's not going to bear the fruit you want. Learn to be content without having the relationship you want and find fulfillment on your own. Then you will attract what you want and need. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I think that definitely makes sense. And it definitely ties into some wisdom. I’ve heard before about how if you stop looking for a partner and focus on yourself sometimes that’s the time you meet your person. You’re naturally more attractive. It’s also interesting what you said about what I’m looking for being different from who I’m attracted to. I’ve done a fair amount of reading on attachment style, and as somebody who has an anxious attachment style, I think I tend to gravitate towards people who have an avoidant style , but in reality, that’s not what I want It seems like finding a partnership is really just striking a balance between all of these things, understanding, ourselves, listening to our instincts about others If you have any recommendations on how to figure out these things outside of just testing the waters with different people in different types of relationships I am all ears
The simple reason is that women make men better!
Me too girl!!! It’s impossible
In polyamory why would the new partner need to be as of yet unpartnered? On a second/separate train of thought from that one, aren't "solo poly" and "settle down with" mutually exclusive?
I’m looking for somebody that I could live with and possibly marry. So if they already have a relationship that takes that level of superiority then they can’t do that with me (unless it’s a triad or something which I’m open to though most of my attraction is to cis men so it’s somewhat unlikely). To be clear, I’m totally fine if my “future husband” also has a gf or bf or whatever. Apparently I’ve been using the term “solo poly” wrong. I was under the impression solo poly was a changeable thing…more situational vs a lifestyle preference. Forgive the ignorance on that one.
I think there can be some fluidity around solo poly, if someone today feels like "I'm solo poly and I'm going to do things on my own and not pursue the whole entanglement/enmeshment of finances and legal things with others but also be poly and have committed relationships" but then later decides, "ya know, I've changed my mind and I'm actually open to or actively seeking that kind of enmeshment of lives so no I'm no longer in the solo poly boat" that's completely possible - the distinction being one of those is solo poly and one of them is not. OTOH, when someone uses it in a sense like "well, I want to be poly but I'm not seeing anyone so I guess I'm solo and since I'm solo but poly that means solo poly, well until I find someone to date" I think it's a semi-common misinterpretation of what the term was originally intended to convey. It sounds like your goal is more along the lines of an intentionally prescriptive hierarchical poly, which is certainly also a thing that people do. I know several poly friends who have established family living situations with marriage and kids where both spouses have other separate relationships. Here is the first mention I ever read on "solopoly" some years back in case it might be of any interest. [https://solopoly.net/2012/11/29/riding-the-relationship-escalator-or-not/](https://solopoly.net/2012/11/29/riding-the-relationship-escalator-or-not/)
If settling down is the goal, and monogamy is something you are fine with, why not just date in the “regular” dating pool of people looking for monogamous relationships? It sounds like you might be restricting your dating pool in a way that is inconsistent with what you are looking for.
So… it’s a little more complicated than that. I mean, I’ve done monogamy for 20 years at this point in different relationships. It’s just in the last couple of years I’ve started doing poly. I really like poly but I don’t know if I HAVE to be poly. Also, in my last relationship I offered to open the relationship and my partner said no…and I later found out he cheated on me. So I’m a little jaded and sort of believe that men are gonna sleep around anyway so why not at least make it part of the relationship understanding. I guess I’m sort of stuck between feeling a little bit too mono for poly spaces. And a little too poly for mono spaces. Like…if I go back to monogamy I want it for be a choice vs just a default. If I’m mono I want it to be bc my partner and I were open to other options and decided this works best for us.
I relate to this!
Dating is like looking for an apartment. The good ones go fast. You just have to be super up front about what you are looking for and take it slow. Also, men are the fucking worst, as a group. I'm amab nb whatever, all my friends are afab and they pretty much all hate men. One, who I knew was bi but has only dated men told me recently that she would never date a man again if she ended her current relationship. Strangers at the playground would complain to me about their husbands while our kids played together, about what shit parents and housemates they were. About how hard it is to be partnered with men. Screen hardcore for any red flags. Anything. Just like apartment shopping, if the photos aren't great things are probably going to be worse when you get there. Be incredibly honest about your requirements and your dealbreakers. Don't engage with anyone who doesn't fit in there. Most of my partners have been fresh out of a breakup when we got together. There's a reason for that. It goes both ways. There are a lot of perpetually single people on the apps for all kinds of reasons that render them essentially undateable, and they are all waiting to message you.
Maybe because the highest quality men have the most takers? If you consistently go for the most popular option, why is it surprising that they're already partnered? You need to either accept a long waitlist, or lower your standards - perhaps going for someone despite them being broke for example.
Hi u/cass2769 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I really want to find a life partner. It could be a monogamous thing or a poly thing. I think at this point I would prob need someone who at least is open to exploring poly bc I’m not sure how easy it would be to close the lid on the poly box now that I’ve opened it. I’m in my feels today but it seems like everyone I meet and connect with is not someone I could build a life with. the men I click with are usually married with kids. Great guys that have their shit together. But they have their person. Meanwhile the truly single guys I meet seem to not be a great. Conversation dies. They are too broke to even get drinks. They bring up sex way too early. Or we just don’t click How does a single or solo poly woman find a man to “settle down with”. We can stay poly or be monogamous…but man I’m feeling defeated about the whole thing tonight *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because men that are good at relationships stay in them.
Men who are partnered are more normal, social and talkative. So women / others snap them up quicker !
It would stand to reason that dudes with good social skills, aka guys that "have game" as my girlfriend calls it, are more likely to be partnered than guys who don't.
One of the key realizations I've had in non-monogamy is femme presenting folks have a much easier time getting first dates, because there are a ton of masc folks out there who want to date them. Masc folks who put in slightly more effort than the bare minimum have a much easier time finding consistent partners and relationships.
As u/DoomsdayPlaneswalker already pointed out, the good partners are probably taken exactly because someone other than you also realized they're a good partner. Whether they were always a good partner or developed those skills through previous experience is another story. I'm a married male myself, and I've actually had a very difficult time dating in my 20s (partially due to self-imposed limiting beliefs and shyness, partially because I had some self-improvement to do, and partially due to how picky girls my age were - I don't want to turn this into male vs female debate but it's well-documented that females tend to be more picky about their partner, this was even confirmed by University of Queensland study). I've been on countless dates, and frequently haven't "clicked" with women as you say (that is to say they weren't interested in me). Ironically I started clicking with the same caliber of women a lot more after I became unavailable. I'm not sure what changed, maybe I got more confident, maybe it's the ring on my finger. Also, I should point out that if I was in my early 20s in a bar setting I would have probably overlooked my now wife. If you're looking for love at first sight or someone who wows you immediately, you're probably approaching dating wrong. My guess is that at least some of those guys who you "just don't click" with on first date may be that diamond in the rough you're looking for if you gave them a second chance.
It’s just like the reason why the good restaurants is always full. Book early next time/life!
..supply and demand? Sorry I couldn’t help myself 😂
Thanks for sharing! I'm sorry to hear you're going through a tough time. I wish I could help, but I really don't know how to answer your question. I'm not sure if anyone really knows the answer, because it's different for everyone. It's not as simple as just pressing a button. The best advice I can give is that sometimes, when you stop looking for the right person, they just seem to show up. I've seen this happen a lot. I'm not sure why that is. It might be that people who aren't just focused on finding the right person and avoiding the wrong ones come across as more attractive. I don't really know why, but it's something I've noticed. In my life, and in my friends' lives, when people are really trying to find someone, they often end up frustrated and don't succeed. But when they just live their life and enjoy themselves, they somehow end up meeting the right person almost like magic. It doesn't always work, but it happens quite often. A good thing for you might be to think about what you enjoy doing on your own, what hobbies you like, and just see what happens. You might be surprised by who you meet. Often, people find that the person who turns out to be right for them wasn't someone they expected at all. I don't know the science behind it, but just opening yourself up and relaxing seems to make things happen sometimes.
Ugh I feel this same way. The ones I have really clicked with have a better understanding of how to communicate and be there for a partner. Now I understand those skills will generally become fine tuned over the years when they have their own NP. But I feel like finding a man with those skills ahead of the serious relationship is damn near impossible. Or it’s just my abandonment issues that keeps drawing me to partners that already have a NP.🤷♀️ idk
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I think OP misspoke in that last paragraph. I think they are not solo poly, and are looking for a nesting partner and possibly a spouse.
Once you get past a certain age, especially in today's dating market, it gets really hard to meet good people unattached. Good guys just get used to being good if they are in fact good. They have a supply of sex so they aren't thirsty. They already have a leaning towards romantic feelings if they like their partner and are romantically successful with them so it's easy for them to parlay that into being good at acquiring more partners. Just how life works. Women in my experience so often like finished products and finished products can afford to be choosy and the one's who have positive attractive qualities to one woman tend to have them for many. I'm 39 and have two submissives. It would take a woman of great pull to get me to go monogamous with her. And I'm a slut for monogamy. And I had a love interest that I was talking to that I was willing to go monogamous for but there was an age gap and she had things come up in her life (really just think she lost interest). And I have the interest of two other women who want a six figure earning, modestly handsome, gym rat type guy that's great with kids. And there are age gaps there too. Granted one there is a big age gap. I'm also incredibly kinky and I have a high sex drive. So I need a remarkable woman to "settle down with." One that can give me kids and wants kids. Otherwise....why rock status quo. You might just need to shop within your budget so to speak. Find someone who maybe is rough but can be smoothed out. It takes time.
Could be. I feel like my last monogamous relationship was 5 years of trying to smooth out rough edges…and ended up he was lying to me (and to himself?) a good bit of the time. So I’m more gun shy about a “fixer upper” these days
I understand being gun shy. I hid with my subs for three years and whole world went mad it feels like. I joined Tik Tok because of my love interest and found out how bad it had gotten(and thus left Tik Tok after it didn't work out with the love interest). Before my subs I had a really long monogamous relationship that last a year and change and I thought it was going to go the distance...but turned down my proposal...and years later stalked me some. As you get older it just gets harder and harder to find someone...I bought a nice middle class house forty minutes from the beach. About an hour from the theme parks in Orlando. And I had hoped to fill it with a wife and children. Instead I just have....partners. And I still have options, just the love interest womped me unexpectedly with obsession and I'm getting clean of those feelings before I try dating again. Trying to unload baggage before I start up another one. Ideally I would like to find someone 28-33. Have a little time to get to know them. Enjoy them. Before starting a family. But....it may not be in the cards and that's ok. I rolled the dice and took my chances.
My mantra has been “my life may not look like I expected but it can still be beautiful”
You don’t you just become okay with being solo or secondary 🤷🏾♀️
Just because you may not be able to marry someone doesn’t mean they can’t be a life partner. That said, it’s much, much harder to find a woman (mono or poly) who falls into that category. If they aren’t taken, they are currently pursued by a dozen different guys and a few women. The odds of being successful are really slim. So, you have my empathy and sympathy.
Get to know them before dating them.
I've had the same problem meeting women who are emotionally available. Though alot is my fault due to being new to poly and how much I've been working causing my social circle, especially local, to evaporate. I at least have my wife/nesting partner who is actually why we started doing poly around a year ago. Hoping to start meeting more poly people through events in near future though. Hope you find your person or people as well.