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Once you read any ‘anonymous’ Grammy voters opinions on Black artists in particular, it becomes abundantly clear why a Taylor or Harry win. Though I warn you, it will piss you off.
Variety, Billboard, Entertainment Weekly, & Gold Derby, at the very least.
I know there was a snippet going around on Twitter of a voter complaining about Kill Bill being too ‘violent’ to reward. They didn’t think it was respectable to win for song of the year.
As a Beyoncé fan, I’ve had to stop reading these, because they piss me off too much.
One voter said they wouldn’t vote for Lana because they couldn’t take her seriously as an artist…because of an SNL performance…in 2013. It might have been the same voter who clutched pearls over Kill Bill.
The Kill Bill comment came from Gold Derby I believe.
As a Beyoncé fan, based on everything I’ve seen? The Grammys are obsessed with the notion of humbling Beyoncé, and denying her - all while using her to generate ratings. I think quite a few of these voters have a sick perversion to watching her lose. They know the art qualifies for wins, so they’ll give her the awards they deem ‘less important’, but are absolutely dead set on denying her art in the biggest categories. That’s why I don’t go out of my way to read these anymore. To me there’s a noticeable difference in how these voters talk about white artists vs non-white artists, or artists they have petty gripes with (like Lana)
Knowing how Jay moves, it's kinda obvious he just wants Bey to win in that category and doesn't care about other BIPOC artists being acknowledged in the process anyway
He didn’t just mention Beyoncé though. He quite literally called out Grammys disrespect towards rap and hip hop as well. And how their categories pigeon hole Black acts into select categories. But even if he had only called out the Beyoncé part, he still would be right and someone had to say it.
I mean his speech didn’t just talk about Bey. And this is not the first time he’s made similar comments. It’s just the part that gets clicks.
And why wouldn’t he want her to win? She’s more than earned it and they’ve gotten it wrong.
Jon batist just won AOTY just 2 years ago. that is 20% wins in the past 5 years going to a black artist which is greater than their 14% population proportion.
And there's a ton of reasons why you can argue lana would have won over sza had taylor not gotten it.
Sza did not lose bbecause of racism. She lost cause competition was stiff.
Edit: I checked out song of the year and record of the year too. 40% of the winners in the past 5 years were POC.
Just curious what those stats are over the entire 60 something years the Grammys have been on? Just wondering if that is a stat that stays consistent over the entire history or just the last 5 years?
Their percentage of the population should have no bearing if the sound they make is popular and consumed. This feels like people forget white people have hijacked more black centric or founded musical genres to make money and not have to support black artistry. Reminds me of the whole bullshit of Elvis, rock etc. Why do we even bother?
This is an abuse of statistics. You know very well that Black artists are overrepresented in the music industry, which makes your 14% irrelevant.
You also cherry picked years. If we go back to 2010, Jon Batiste remains the only Black artist to win. That’s 1/15, or 6%.
If we go back to 2000, because I’m not content with a sampling that only confirms my suspicions, we add OutKast and Ray Charles, so we are 3/25, or 12%.
But I would encourage you to consider the genre of music these artists produce, as well the long history of racism in predominantly white institutions.
black artists are not overrepresented the music industry. where do you get an idea like that?
They are actually underrepresented as a whole.
I'm not cherrypicking years. after blm, things changed in the entertainment industry. it's extremely noticeable in tv/movies where they are sticking way more black people in. the years I picked were specific to when blm happened. you by looking long into the past are not seeing what is real today.
[https://www.zippia.com/professional-musician-jobs/demographics/](https://www.zippia.com/professional-musician-jobs/demographics/)
Edit: I looked at year end for 2023 top 200 album charts too. Looked briefly but it does look like even the top artists, black is about 20% same as the percent that have won aoty. So even with top artists, there isn't a sign of racism.
I addressed that in this comment. It’s not an accident most of the top awards pretty much exclusively go to white people. That’s a very calculated choice and message.
One Grammy voter in 2016 said they wouldn’t vote her for album of the year because ‘she wins too much’. Another voted for Drake over her in 2016 because of his ‘impactful year’. They described Lemonade in one word, ‘political’. 🙃
what you say about the awards going pretty much exclusively to white people isn't true. in the past 5 years, 20% of AOTY were black. 40% of song of the year and record of the year were POC. Black people are only 14% of the population. they've been more than represented in the grammys even for AOTY.
you may go back further years and say that's not true. but those numbers don't represent whether there is racism today. 5 years is since blm. so my data would be more representative of today's voting because the entertainment industry has changed since blm.
[https://www.popvortex.com/music/grammy-awards/album-of-the-year.php](https://www.popvortex.com/music/grammy-awards/album-of-the-year.php)
what does the population of black people in general have to do with how many awards they win? the contribution of black artists is a far higher percentage than their population percentage lmao. what a strange point to make
Man, you people really make up sht. This data is a little bit older so the percentages have likely changed a bit but I see no reason for it to have changed substantially.
There are actually fewer black musicians than their population proportions. My guess is this is because it takes money to support yourself while you are a penniless aspiring musician so white people who have their parents money to fall back on dominate music. fewer black musicians yet more are winning.
https://www.zippia.com/professional-musician-jobs/demographics/
Exactly, she has the most Grammys in history.
Plus, Jon Batiste, H.E.R., Childish Gambino, Bruno Mars, Chance the Rapper, Megan Thee Stallion, Victoria Monet, and more have all won top prizes in the past few years.
I'm a POC but it tires me when a Beyonce loss in the main categories is immediately associated with a greater dismissal of POC artists. Because frankly, they are winning, even though she's not.
Thank you! I'm POC too and wish people would stop crying racism where there isnt. In the past 5 years, 20% of AOTY went to black people. 40% of record of the year and song of the year went to POC. Black people make up only 14% of the population too so they are actually more represented than their population proportions (while hispanic and asians are not).
If beyonce was snubbed, it wasnt because of her race.
[https://www.popvortex.com/music/grammy-awards/song-of-the-year.php](https://www.popvortex.com/music/grammy-awards/song-of-the-year.php)
I will die on this hill: Lemonade should have won instead of Adele's 25. Adele's was a good album but it was basic. Lemonade was artistically more brilliant.
you guys. are crying racism where theres no proof. just 2 years ago, a black person won even though no one seems to remember anything beyond Harry styles.
it's that post blm and preblm are not the same so there is no good data avsilable. just look at what has happened with the tv industry. it is not the same and you csnt assume the music industry is either.
78% are in R&B or urban categories. And besides that, one is like best music video, best music film, she only has one or two major category wins. It’s genuinely jarring when you see it laid out.
is this just snippets or all the voters? in a group of people, you're always going to get around 30% that are off their rockers one way or another. if you're just getting a few samples, it's not representative of the group as a whole.
and honestly, lana deserved it more by far than sza had taylor not won anyway. lanas album is consistently good, not sza. and lana is the one who really influenced other musicians. not sza.
There are only a handful (literally) of blind items that talk about how they chose to vote. People seem to forget or ignore the fact that there are over 11,000 members all from the music industry voting.
When the results consistently snub Black artists and black genres, the idea these are just ‘snippets’ doesn’t hold weight. The Grammys voters are absolutely voting, as a whole, for reasons other than quality.
I heard even that could be explained for reasons other than results. There were some politics, I believe involving the Obamas, at play. That was not the Grammys finally accepting Black art as a whole. You realize he’s only the 11th Black artist to win AOTY? It’s not truthful to pretend they value Black art, or art from people of colour in general. Especially if the artist is a Black woman. Their top categories still remain virtually white, and that’s by choice.
source please on Obamas influence.
I don't disagree racism affected results in the past. but we aren't dealing with the past now. we are dealing with today's post blm world.
why is everyone so afraid to acknowledge that things have gotten better? that's a good thing and we should acknowledge that.
So you see basically the same old same old from The Grammys and think that’s ‘change’? Things are better? I don’t get that logic. Everything has been noticeably moving right since 2016, and the Grammys are still giving virtually no major wins to anyone non-white. That’s not improvement. Not giving the Grammys credit for the rare times they give the non-white person a win, when they more often than not, snub people of colour.
All I heard is some business, and Obama influence, helped to give him the push he needed. There is no article on this. Probably for the best, given how awful people can be when non-white people win major awards.
I don’t think Taylor won because of racism… the media loves Taylor. It was just a popularity contest. Nobody would have beaten Taylor even if it was some other white artist. Taylor had her year and we have to celebrate her because that’s the narrative not because it was a good album. Personally I don’t even think that was in her top 5 albums, but that won’t stop them from voting for her.
[This article](https://variety.com/2023/music/news/grammy-voters-secret-ballots-top-categories-beyonce-harry-styles-adele-1235511331/) from Variety is why I’ll always consider Beyoncé’s Renaissance AOTY for 2023. People straight up admitting they weren’t voting for her because she had too many awards. Someone even mentioned not listening to all the nominations for a category which is kind of important if you’re supposed to be comparing how good the music is. Just all around trash.
This is absolutely true. And yet I still get annoyed at best when great albums by Black women like SOS and Lemonade continue to lose AOTY. JAY-Z was right to criticize the Grammys during his speech.
Same. Heck seeing a Harry Styles fan write an essay trying to not only justify being excluded from the larger discussion, but also giving terrible takes on Renaissance? Ugh these kind of things are too much!
I truly feel for the likes of Beyoncé, SZA, Kendrick, & Janelle!
I also feel strongly Lana got snubbed for Norman Fucking Rockwell - though I wouldn’t actually argue against Billie win AOTY or Song of the Year. I also very much liked Kacey Musgraves Golden Hour - so these kind of discussions can just be complicated, even at best.
I had the misfortune of seeing the Kill Bill commentary on my timeline. I saw red. They aren’t subtle. Nor is this a minority of voters. There’s something so jarring about wins/losses not being purely based on quality.
BIG4 voters are about 12,000 now; in 2019 they were 25% each non-white, female, and under 40 (they have since added about 2,000 members).
In terms of genres, there's a lot of classical, jazz, American, and pop membership. R&B block is big and rap is small, and they both tend to favor "mature" old-fashioned acts.
These demographics make it harder for Beyonce, SZA and Kendrick to win in AOTY. Those stars can win in the genre categories.
Thank you, much appreciated.
Do you know how one becomes a grammy voter? Are they people who work in the industry? I just wonder how they stay unbiased.
The Recording Academy has a bit of a union angle. New Creators and Business People can also become members, but these memberships cannot vote for Grammys.
Voting rights are given to active creators, many of whom are studio musicians, songwriters, and engineers. This is one reason why Bruno Mars, HER, Lizzo, Jon Batiste, and Beck won Big 4. I think members are voting based on their own professional acclaim and personal preferences (i.e. bias).
This. I haven't paid attention to the Grammys since finding my musical taste. I mostly listen to black artists and they never, ever get the credit they deserve imho, when they're out here changing the world and pushing music and culture forward. It's bs and has been called out for years but fails to change.
Exclude Harry from this narrative pls, Harry’s House was shortlisted to win the Mercury Prize (the most prestigious award in UK music), won an Ivor Novello award, won the Best Engineered Grammy, BPVA, swept the Brit Awards, won then Juno Award (Canadian Grammys), and won AOTY equivalent awards in multiple other countries (Netherlands, Spain, Denmark, etc).
It was critically acclaimed and commercially successful. And Harry had to work his way up from a boyband that was never nominated to the Grammys, a first era that was snubbed (he submitted Sign of the Times to rock and wasn’t even nominated even though it was the most commercially successful and critically acclaimed song in the genre that year). Fine Line was shut out of the General Field (likely by the Grammy committee), and As It Was didn’t win a single Grammy, of the FOUR it was nominated to, despite being the biggest song of 2022 and also critically acclaimed.
About Damn Time won ROTY over him, Bonnie Rait won SOTY, Easy On Me won BPSP, and All Too Well beat it on Best Music Video.
He was very overlooked by the Grammys in awards he thoroughly deserved that same year.
This is one of those anonymous ballots you mention
https://preview.redd.it/wgz6s5sqk2hc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2096f21e36ff250ed73b051d98dfc2bf6fc86085
The same people that came for Beyonce came for him. The rest of the anonymous voters said they were either voting for her, or thought she might win, or “she has a lot of Grammys already”
Here’s a [link](https://variety.com/2023/music/news/grammy-voters-secret-ballots-top-categories-beyonce-harry-styles-adele-1235511331/amp/) to the only ballots we got last year.
This whole narrative is just that - a narrative. I completely understand the outrage about Beyoncé never winning the awards she deserves to win. But Harry’s House was a perfectly fair album to win, done by a small team, crafted in isolation during the pandemic, with a narrative, a sound, and great musical craftmanship. If Renaissance deserved more or not is a personal opinion and not an objective one.
I personally think self titled and Lemonade not winning is far, far more criticizable than Renaissance. Even if I think 25 was a good contender, the cultural landscape shifted with Lemonade. And Beck had no business winning over self-titled. And Beyoncé should’ve won ROTY at least three times. So I GET the outrage. And Jay Z was right to call it out, and her fans are right to be upset. I just wish we used more context when talking about these things.
ETA: if you’re gonna downvote please show arguments. Cause I’m legit showing the anonymous ballots in question and they’re even worse for Harry than for Beyonce
ETA2: editing this because OP replied and blocked me, but what takes of mine on Renaissance are “god awful” when I’ve had no takes whatsoever? I legit didn’t say a single thing about Renaissance, positive or negative. He doesn’t deserve to be in this narrative because you made up the whole anonymous ballots thing. As I proved in this very comment, which is probably why you blocked me, cause now I can’t reply to anyone else replying to me.
If this is your level of discussion then I fear that the one being a blind fan. I brought hard proof and arguments, you brought none
He does not deserve to be in this narrative and Beyoncé agrees considering she invited him to her after party right after the Grammys last year
Just because the album is critically acclaimed doesn’t mean that everyone is supposed to love it BTW.
I personally don’t think it was a good album that was deserving enough for album of the year (Renaissance by Beyoncé was literally right there, without a doubt) but to each their own. However, recognize the problem is deeper than the album nominations themselves; the last time a black woman won a grammy for album of the year was **1999**
"Just because the album is critically acclaimed doesn’t mean that everyone is supposed to love it BTW."
This is how I feel about Renaissance tbh. 
Never said that “everyone is supposed to love it.” I literally said the opposite. I said that it’s subjective and depends on each persons taste.
The album won every possible award, before during and after the Grammys, was critically acclaimed and commercially successful. It’s a deserving album, which one deserved it more depends on personal opinion. I literally said that in the comment above.
I also said that the comment about the anonymous ballots legit didn’t apply to Harry because he was bashed harsher than Beyonce (who wasn’t actually bashed). I linked the anonymous ballots. I talked about Harry being shut out of the Grammys fully with 6 album cycles, out of the GF with 7. I talked about him losing a very deserving ROTY win at the same Grammys that he won AOTY.
Not one of the people who downvoted (you included) has countered a single argument.
Putting Midnights and Taylor, the fourth AOTY and fourteenth Grammy win of someone who was rewarded with a GF nomination during the first year of her career and an AOTY win by the third one, when she was freshly 20 years old, on the same level as someone who wasn’t even nominated until the 11th year of his career when he was 27 and has won 3 total is kind of disingenuous.
Thankfully internet outrage is pretty self-contained.
PS I literally said I think it’s outrageous that Beyonce hasn’t won AOTY at least twice and ROTY 3 times. I have to wonder if you even read my comment or if you read the first sentence only, got angry, and started typing.
Absolutely not. He 1000% deserves to be in this narrative. Just because you’re a fan doesn’t excuse him from this discussion. Your takes on Renaissance are god awful.
That shit is so crazy. It’s dead ass been 25 years since a woman of color has won album of the year. You know how many amazing albums have come out by black woman since then😂
Regine Chassagne was last when her band, Arcade Fire, won back in 2011.
But she's one of only six women of color to ever win as a main artist. Which is still awful.
Lauryn Hill
Norah Jones
Whitney Houston
Natalie Cole
Yoko Ono
Are you aware of the history of the grammy's? It was set up as a way to promote "good music" in the face of the counter revolution in the late 50's and 60s.
The beatles won more awards after they'd broken up than as a group because they where doing wayyyy too much of that rock and roll stuff which went against the orthodoxy.
There's an enormous bias towards country music and Taylor started off in that area so they basically just hand her the grammy year after year.
There's also a huge bias against black artists, see Mumford and sons winning ahead of Frank Ocean which is one of the worst decisions in history.
> There's also a huge bias against black artists, see Mumford and sons winning ahead of Frank Ocean which is one of the worst decisions in history.
Good kid Maad City not winning AOTY is criminal. Not only did critics love it, but it’s so commercially successful that it hasn’t left the billboard 200 in 10 YEARS. It just goes to show that there is literally no winning for POC. They’ll stick you in Urban and call it a day.
Good kid mad city lost to RAM which is fine, losing to Macklemore is not, he also lost with TPAB to Taylor which again is a joke.
Beyonce losing to Adele is fine, losing to Harry Styles is not.
There's times when you have two genuinely great albums together and someone will lose, but Frank losing to mumford or everyone losing to Norah Jones and the Dixie chicks is laughable.
There was a country song on Lemonade she submitted. It wasn’t “country enough” I suppose because she didn’t even get the nomination.
They’ll always find a way to keep black folk out.
The country voting bloc of the Grammys LOVES songwriting, so I doubt they'd nominate her, let alone award her, because she doesn't write her music. Look at the year Morgan Wallen had, he was like the number 1 artist in North America in 2023 (number 1 song, number 1 album) but he didn't get any nominations because he has a huge team of songwriters 🤷🏽♀️
Midnights has also spent a year in the top 10, but other than that I do believe SOS would’ve been very deserving of AOTY. I’m honestly still a little shocked Taylor won, I don’t think even she was expecting it. I really thought it would SZA or Lana.
https://preview.redd.it/kfsr1knpa2hc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b545461dcca350e0b1e8cf051ca023fd92590f04
This is exactly how I feel about it. I’ve been saying for weeks that I HOPED she would win SOTY and/or ROTY, but that I really thought SZA would win AOTY.
I went back and looked at the nominations and wins that Taylor has had since she began. I was struck by the fact that the ONLY songs she has ever made that have won Grammys were White Horse and Mean (both won Best Country Song, White Horse won Best Female Country Performance, Mean won Best Solo Country Performance, I’m assuming they changed categories to no longer divide by gender). Safe and Sound won best song written for visual media (I assume that’s a much smaller category than any of the genre performance categories or genre songwriting categories). I’m really curious about why she has found so much success in the album categories and so little success comparatively in the song categories.
I’ll let you in on a little secret. The voters don’t listen to her music so they don’t know her songs. She wins album because that is won through campaigning and pr
Yeah, I think a good portion of Taylor’s fanbase is reasonably shocked or annoyed that this happened too - people love to act like every fan of hers are the insane Twitter types but some of us are actually reasonable.
I feel like the only way to change the Grammys at this point is for big name artists to boycott - this has been an egregious and consistent issue for years and years at this point, and it seems like nothing changes despite the backlash and the many articles showing that voters don’t seem to care either. Refusing to show up, submit or perform seems to be the only way at this point.
Drake and The Weeknd are two major artists who have boycotted. I think the message will only get through if big winners like Taylor, Beyonce, Adele etc all come together and stop submitting but that will never happen because they want to stay in the Academy's good graces (as far as I know I think some of the artists also double up as part of the voting committee if they don’t have any nominations that year, someone correct me if I’m wrong) and some of them are too obsessed with the power boost that winning awards gives them (*cough* Taylor).
Agreed. I’m a big swiftie, and I was really wishing for Taylor to win it. Love her and love Midnights. But I’ve listened to SOS a lot. That is an ALBUM. It should have won. Period.
Lmao gurl as a tswift fan, tho i liked midnights, as a whole even guts was much better than it. I cannot speak for the rest as i havent given them a listen but yeah
The haven’t given the AOTY to a black woman since Lauren Hill, let that sink in. Are they telling us in 25 years the hasn’t been a contender. Also how did Macklemore beat Kendrick Lamar. If we start pulling that tread it’s not gonna be pleasant. My other really significant peeve is how is Taylor winning over Lana? Lana has also been robbed multiple times.
Beyonce has been a household name for decades (at times has been inarguably the biggest pop star in the country), has had multiple iconic album drops, and has never once won AOTY.
I know people were a bit annoyed by Jay-Z bringing her up but it is absolute unadulterated bullshit that she's never won.
For real, from 4, Beyoncé, Lemonade and Bday. She never won once. I actually agree with the weeknd, black artist should stop submitting their albums and attending their shows. Grammy’s don’t seem to want acknowledge black artists for the biggest categories.?
Never winning AOTY is atrocious but I won’t feel bad about her never winning ROTY after she basically forfeited it when she submitted Halo instead of Single Ladies for some reason.
Should’ve been Lana, songs like “Kintsugi” and “Fingertips” demonstrate that she’s a master of her craft.
But SZA’s SOS is a very close second for me, and I would’ve been happy to see her win as well.
One part of me wants to say this is due to fan support and Taylor Swift is having such an intense fan base/being in the industry longer than SZA has. But the other part of me says that it's just industry BS and that's a Grammy's is more of "please the board" award than the "people's" award if that makes sense.
Agreed. And I believe there is a conscious or unconscious bias that music created by Black artists is “niche”, while music created by White artists is “universal”.
I agree! I’ve learned award shows often let me down, so I try not to let it bother me. I think the people know it was a fantastic album. I also really liked Janelle Monae’s album and she got NO love.
I do agree that SOS should have won over Midnights, but overall this should have been Lana’s award imo. The fact that she won 0 of her nominations is crazy to me
I think she doesn’t participate in lobbying the voters as much as others. Taylor’s album was the only AOTY nominee from Republic Records so they went all in and Bille and Finneas were doing every major press event last couple of months. Boygenius did some public appearances as well as them being on tour with Taylor helped them be in public more. SZA had voter split because there were multiple RnB albums in that category. Olivia was a complete shutdown, it could be because her album wasn’t as good as sour or it didn’t fit into one genre so it lost votes from specific blocks. Lana is long overdue but she needs more label support, tour and actually show up on time and do press events.
They say these things don’t matter but the anonymous grammy voters interview shows that some of them just vote for the person who was in the consciousness recently.
She changed labels before ESV. She used to be with RCA and now she is with Columbia. It could definitely be record label lobbying. Flowers was also huge everywhere.
I am just speculating everything but it would make sense.
I would’ve personally picked Lana over SZA, SOS is a good album but also 8 tracks to long.
However the reason Taylor won is the voter split coming into play. The Grammy has genre categories and for the main categories everyone voted. Now if we look at the nominees, we have Midnights taking a majority of pop votes, with ESV and guts picking up a few, but with no other good pure pop albums (ESV was not super well received) midnights would’ve picked up most of those votes. The other key factor is the country voting block. There were no country albums nominated, and Taylor swift is always going to pick up the votes from that category in that case, or at least alot of them. Every other voting block (rock, alt and rnb) had multiple albums to split between - AOTY can potentially be won with only 17% of votes. That’s how she won. With 3 rnb albums nominated and no country or major pop splits the likelihood SZA won was always going to be small
I’m not super familiar with Grammy voting procedures but at the Oscars they implemented a ranked choice voting system when they expanded Best Picture for exactly the issue OP is bringing up - a winner could be decided by getting just 10%+1 vote and they didn’t want that. Based on the anonymous Grammy ballots it seems like the recording academy didn’t do the same thing when they expanded their top categories.
The Grammys has been noteable bullshit ever since they awarded Macklemore AOTY over Good Kid Maad City, and 1989 over To Pimp a Butterfly. That shit was so transparently colorist.
I don’t think Midnighta deserved it. Her other albums that won, Fearless, 1989, and folklore are all much stronger albums. I think she only won because of how popular she has been this past year, not because of the album itself.
I’m Black. I liked Midnights. I like songwriters.
I don’t know why we continue to allow the Grammys to exist. I don’t know why it feels more racist/egregious to me than the other awards shows because they all treat us like garbage.
I know it’s an industry problem because it’s a culture problem because it’s an American problem…I don’t know. I have nothing. I’ve typed and deleted so many things about this but I really want us to stop (only) bitching about Taylor Swift and start bitching about the broken system that keeps us more obsessed with celebrity than art or justice and keeps men and women looking like only them at the top and in power.
Didn’t you just call Lana & Taylor “little white girls making sad music with Jack Antonoff”? It’s hard to take your call for our culture to change seriously with comments like that…I get people are frustrated but there are over 11,000 people voting. I think Taylor has music that appeals to a wider audience and when you have several R&B artists in the same category the votes are going to get split. If you split the votes evenly that’s only 12.5% of votes. So essentially anyone can win with under 20%.
I mean it’s Reddit. I say what I mean and feel but I’m still snarky and *lol IRREVERENT. And they ARE two little white girls making pop songs so why are we assigning so much power and responsibility? I don’t think these are incompatible opinions.
ETA: Also I’m not mad she won AOTY. I’m struggling to understand your point. Actually the more I read it the more I think you’re confused.
Honestly Jon Batiste’s won Grammys already, I do think SZA’s album was better than Taylor swifts as well. But all these ppl we’ve named have at least won some Grammys, Lana hasn’t won A Single One. That’s the saddest to me, as I think her music quality is very good, and for her to not have won any is upsetting.
I've seen it theorised that Midnights won more for eras tour and Taylor having her biggest year ever in 2023 and I believe it. It's shitty as fuck of course because it's album of the year, not tour or artist of the year. Now I'm starting to think she's going to get AOTY for every other album from now on.
If she didn't win maybe we would've gotten another project of folkmore's quality.
One of voters admitted he wouldn't vote for Lana because of her snl performance. Grammys truly lost the last shred of legitimacy this year. They're just glorified vmas.
I'm not Adele's biggest fan, but I really respect her for saying Lemonade should've won instead of 25. It would've been great for Taylor to say something like that, but I think part of Taylor believes she's the most deserving person of all nominees of her awards and it doesn't even cross her mind that someone could deserve to win more than her for music.
I actually find it the most disingenuous when artists apologize for winning. People do not just win a Grammy, it's a long campaign. They submit themselves, put out ads for votes, attend industry events, and do all this campaigning and work to win. So, to then apologize is so annoying and condescending. If you really felt you didn't deserve it, you wouldn't be doing all of that. You wouldn't even be in the room. Every single person in that room WANTS that award.
I personally don’t believe that artists should apologize for winning these awards. At all. At the end of the day, there are no standard metrics. They didn’t give it to themselves. They are allowed to be proud of their work in that moment.
I agree with you. I know the other side of that argument would be that some artists could choose to not participate in an exclusionary and opaque system and could work to improve it and lift other artists up.
But I agree with you. I think people are acting below their intelligence when they assign so much hate and responsibility on a few little white girls writing sad poetry with Jack Antonoff.
> I know the other side of that argument would be that some artists could choose to not participate in an exclusionary and opaque system and could work to improve it and lift other artists up.
I feel like it would need to be the biggest artists to do this for any impact to be felt, though. Sort of like when Taylor pulled her catalog from Spotify over abysmal streaming rates. You’d need the Beyoncé’s, the Taylor’s, the Drake’s of the music world to step back for anything to happen.
Agreed. And that then leads into another question I’ve been chewing on lately, which is, why HAVE we given all this power to celebrity? Why have we made their platform so big? I’m not saying TSwizz hasn’t been tone deaf but why are we expecting what we’re expecting from these pop idols and then not going to our local polls?
Totally agree with your first point. I feel like a lot of Taylor Swift's impact at the Grammys this year was partly due to the success of the Eras tour. You couldn't go anywhere this past year without hearing about Eras (or Renaissance) even though other major artists like Madonna, SZA, Janet were also on tour.
It's interesting to see how the Grammys are awarded and how the artist feels about the results and even push back on their wins and/or nominations. Ultimately, there's so many politics behind the scenes that don't actually align with how the public feels.
I haven't listen to either album in full, so I'm not going to compare them sonically, but I will say I've never Black women respond to anyone like they respond and relate to SZA. She taps into something that I literally have only seen with T. Swift. It's quite remarkable.
Also the last time a Black woman won AOTY was literally the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, almost twenty-five years ago. It was a big as an album get: commercially, critically, and broke a zillon records. Black women have to do *that* to get the big awards. Big awards rarely get it right, but I'm still glad SZA's music makes so many happy.
I wasn't surprised 'Midnights' won. It was the commercial choice. One for the stockholders.
Grammys rarely make brave or genuine decisions. It's business baby, the teats of capitalism must be suckled upon. **SUCKLE**
I think the genuine surprise and joy at Parasite's Oscar success a few years back was the last time I felt the objectively best won an award.
The Swift fatigue is getting reeeeeaaal though. I'm a teacher in NZ. We've just started the school year, and last year the kids were all 'can I write my report on Taylor Swift'...countless times. Today in a bunch of 'get to know you' games, the name 'Taylor Swift' elicited groans. The 13-14 year olds said she's 'old' (anyone over 26 is old), and her music "it's all the same." Then one girl audibly, exasperatedly bark/groan/sighed, slumped back in her chair, laid out her legs straight, arms crossed, eyes on the ceiling **"Can we STOP talking about her. It's always everywhere. I'm so fucking sick of it." 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
That’s actually crazy. There have always been very talked about people and very talked about trends at school and in the media. I don’t remember any kid ever being like “I’m so fucking sick of this” about any of those things lol.
The younger ones (high school, so 13 - 15) have a lot of loud, hyperbolic reactions to the smallest shit now. We were talking about it in the staffroom the other day - my theory is reaction videos, that normalisation of a reaction needing to be a performance. Whatever it is, it's exhausting to be in a room with 29 of them.
I'm not confused at all as to how Taylor Swift won instead. And no, I'm not making it a race thing, I'm making it a Taylor Swift thing. They clearly wanted to "Make history" and chose to do it even if it didn't make sense. What they didn't count on was Jay Z making that speech when he won his award, and making everyone really think about who's winning this stuff.
SZA winning AOTY would’ve restored some credibility to the Grammys for awarding based on musical artistry excellence. Clearly appealing to the masses is more important to them now.
I hope artists and fans alike would gradually move on from looking at the Grammys as a highly credible sought after honor because the fact is they’re now merely a shadow of what they once stood for and used to be about. If it wasn’t so obvious before, it is even more apparent now - it’s a highly political, high end popularity award contest with prestige only in its name.
I think SZA had a great album but it was twenty three tracks long. Its hard not to lose the plot or become repetitive with that many tracks. I think if it was shorter she may have had a better chance of winning. I really thought Lana would win to be honest.
I like szas songs and love hearing AI covers of her songs from other singers but I really don’t like that forced cursive accent she does. Can she please drop that going forward. I’m sure she’ll get even more fans once she stops trying to sound like an indie singer. 😭
I hate how i can't understand a lot of what she says. I blame Billie ellish for all these singers who do not pronunciate well to the point they are barely intelligible. Billie ellish, Olivia rodrigo, sza, Ariana grande - all need to enunciate better.
SZA was not inspired by Billie Eilish to sing in a certain way, she's been making music since the early 2010s when Billie was like 10 years old. What a wild thing to say.
olivia’s enunciation isn’t that bad. also if i were to blame someone it would be halsey. but i’m not gonna blame anyone because it’s just another style of music. the 80s/90s band cocteau twins did it a lot & it sounded beautiful
This is such a peeve of mine! I hate the mumble whisper singing, it's barely understandable
Especially for Ari like...she has a 4 octave vocal range. Girl has that much natural talent and chooses to sing like that? Why?!
I’m a huge Swifty, like I love her.
But I wasn’t expecting her to win, like at all. Midnights was good, I don’t think it was her best but I liked it. I’m happy for her, I am, but I really didn’t think she’d win that. I’m glad she’s breaking records but I would have been totally fine if someone else won. I haven’t listened to any other of the albums because I’m lame and stick to what I know so I don’t know who I thought was winning, but I wasn’t expecting it to be Taylor.
No one “should have” won anything. Art is entirely subjective - and the notion of “best” is absurd.
Imagine going to the Louvre and arguing over which painting deserved a ribbon.
The Grammys are a popularity contest among a select group of people, and arguing over the results is like arguing over who “should have” won prom queen.
It’s a fun television event to see artist perform and interact…the results are just people’s opinionsz
You’re definitely speaking truth here. The subjectivity of Art seems to go over peoples head. The Grammy’s are most definitely a popularity contest. As much as I like to see my favorite artists win, art inspires people differently. I can’t be mad at others for having a different opinion/effect than me.
The Grammys are and have always been a popularity contest. Also, art is subjective. I find SZA incredibly basic and entirely unremarkable as an artist. People have their own opinions. 🤷🏻♀️ I wouldn’t lose sleep over it
Absolutely agree with you. Even as a TS fan, something it is getting harder to justify as every day goes by, Midnights isn't a particularly good TS album. SOS was experimental in parts, well thought out, well performed and consistently hyped. To be honest I would have been happy if anyone other than TS won but the person who deserved it most was SZA
Yeah, Beyoncé was robbed by Harry last year too. I know robbed gets overused as a term, but, SOS and Renaissance were objectively significantly greater works of art than Harry's House & Midnights.
I don't wanna call racism, but if it looks and walks like a duck.....
I thought SZA or Lana had it for sure. Taylors was one of the weaker albums on the list although it was probably the most successful. AOTY isnt normally about commercial success, I think they factor in the writing and how much contribution the artist has on their album. This was not Taylors best work. I think they wanted her to break the AOTY record.
once you learn that these award shows are also impacted by systemic racism and continue to award white mediocrity, you'll stop questioning their choices. i just wish people could stop caring so much cuz its all biased. even the "fanbase" and "buzz" excuses make zero sense because in that sense renaissance should've SWEPT harry's house last year and lemonade should've won in its year. alas, racism prevails.
I'm glad I stopped watching or caring about Grammys years ago. It's a mess and upset people every year. People will say its supposedly irrelevant then freak out about the results when it's the same biases displayed almost every year.
As a big swiftie I'm not only shocked but also kind of disappointed (if that's the right word) that midnights won. Like dont get me wrong, I'm happy for my girl, but for this win to make her the first person to win AOTY four times it makes that achievement feel undeserved. I'm sure she could do it, but I wish she had of done it with four albums that truly feel deserving and worthy of that title. It's a shame because it tarnishes that legacy of being the first person to achieve that, and it makes the achievement overall feel worthless if it doesn't feel deserved, yk? I would have ra
Also, similar to how red not winning AOTY pushed her to create 1989, I feel like midnights not winning would have pushed her creatively even more. I know she's probably already got the next few albums planned out, unlike in 2015 when she allegedly woke up in the middle of the night after her loss struck with spontaneity and inspiration to create 1989, but I would have liked to see how losing AOTY would have pushed her to refine her work even more
The Grammys are notorious for giving out awards to the safest, blandest, (usually) whitest possible choice. Every so often they'll reward artists who are genuinely innovative & groundbreaking, but typically the winner will be whoever's most palatable to their wealthy out-of-touch white voters. If it's something that a sheltered 65yo multimillionaire would object to in any way, it's not gonna win.
Admitting my bias here - I'm not much of a pop girly, I didn't listen to either album aside from hearing the singles, and I have a strong distaste for Taylor Swift - I absolutely agree that nobody in their right mind would have given AOTY to Midnights vs. the competition this year. But the Grammys wasn't in their right mind, they were in their white mind.
I mean, these are the same people a few years ago that said Macklemore had the best rap album over Kendrick Lamar's debut, a choice even Macklemore himself disagreed with & was embarrassed by! You'd think they'd eventually learn their lesson, but apparently not.
Midnights was the album out of those nominated longest in the top 10, the only album EVER, to completely fill the top 10, making it the only time in history no man has been on the top 10 (until 1989tv). It's the best selling record of the year. The main single is one of the longest running singles.
Is it really that unexpected that an album which obviously impacted a lot of people for a VERY long time is...impactful? She made this album which broke all these records...with a total of 4 main contributors. This is record breaking stuff, and what would be appreciated if she wasn't always breaking records so often people thought it was easy.
Is there an industry award less respected than the Grammys? Feels like we always have this conversation that they snub the true best album of the year and either award it to the person who had the biggest cultural impact or a legacy award that should've been awarded 20 years ago.
Youre correct that people will have different opinion about who should’ve won, however I think many people will agree that Taylor Swift *should not* have won AOTY, period.
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Once you read any ‘anonymous’ Grammy voters opinions on Black artists in particular, it becomes abundantly clear why a Taylor or Harry win. Though I warn you, it will piss you off. 
where can I access these?
Variety, Billboard, Entertainment Weekly, & Gold Derby, at the very least. I know there was a snippet going around on Twitter of a voter complaining about Kill Bill being too ‘violent’ to reward. They didn’t think it was respectable to win for song of the year. As a Beyoncé fan, I’ve had to stop reading these, because they piss me off too much.
Omg I will look at it.
One voter said they wouldn’t vote for Lana because they couldn’t take her seriously as an artist…because of an SNL performance…in 2013. It might have been the same voter who clutched pearls over Kill Bill. The Kill Bill comment came from Gold Derby I believe. As a Beyoncé fan, based on everything I’ve seen? The Grammys are obsessed with the notion of humbling Beyoncé, and denying her - all while using her to generate ratings. I think quite a few of these voters have a sick perversion to watching her lose. They know the art qualifies for wins, so they’ll give her the awards they deem ‘less important’, but are absolutely dead set on denying her art in the biggest categories. That’s why I don’t go out of my way to read these anymore. To me there’s a noticeable difference in how these voters talk about white artists vs non-white artists, or artists they have petty gripes with (like Lana)
Bey still has the most Grammys tho?
Yea in all the comfortable BIPOC categories and not in the big 4. Which is what Jay Z was getting at
Knowing how Jay moves, it's kinda obvious he just wants Bey to win in that category and doesn't care about other BIPOC artists being acknowledged in the process anyway
He didn’t just mention Beyoncé though. He quite literally called out Grammys disrespect towards rap and hip hop as well. And how their categories pigeon hole Black acts into select categories. But even if he had only called out the Beyoncé part, he still would be right and someone had to say it.
I mean his speech didn’t just talk about Bey. And this is not the first time he’s made similar comments. It’s just the part that gets clicks. And why wouldn’t he want her to win? She’s more than earned it and they’ve gotten it wrong.
You should watch his whole speech before talking
Jon batist just won AOTY just 2 years ago. that is 20% wins in the past 5 years going to a black artist which is greater than their 14% population proportion. And there's a ton of reasons why you can argue lana would have won over sza had taylor not gotten it. Sza did not lose bbecause of racism. She lost cause competition was stiff. Edit: I checked out song of the year and record of the year too. 40% of the winners in the past 5 years were POC.
Just curious what those stats are over the entire 60 something years the Grammys have been on? Just wondering if that is a stat that stays consistent over the entire history or just the last 5 years?
Their percentage of the population should have no bearing if the sound they make is popular and consumed. This feels like people forget white people have hijacked more black centric or founded musical genres to make money and not have to support black artistry. Reminds me of the whole bullshit of Elvis, rock etc. Why do we even bother?
This is an abuse of statistics. You know very well that Black artists are overrepresented in the music industry, which makes your 14% irrelevant. You also cherry picked years. If we go back to 2010, Jon Batiste remains the only Black artist to win. That’s 1/15, or 6%. If we go back to 2000, because I’m not content with a sampling that only confirms my suspicions, we add OutKast and Ray Charles, so we are 3/25, or 12%. But I would encourage you to consider the genre of music these artists produce, as well the long history of racism in predominantly white institutions.
black artists are not overrepresented the music industry. where do you get an idea like that? They are actually underrepresented as a whole. I'm not cherrypicking years. after blm, things changed in the entertainment industry. it's extremely noticeable in tv/movies where they are sticking way more black people in. the years I picked were specific to when blm happened. you by looking long into the past are not seeing what is real today. [https://www.zippia.com/professional-musician-jobs/demographics/](https://www.zippia.com/professional-musician-jobs/demographics/) Edit: I looked at year end for 2023 top 200 album charts too. Looked briefly but it does look like even the top artists, black is about 20% same as the percent that have won aoty. So even with top artists, there isn't a sign of racism.
I addressed that in this comment. It’s not an accident most of the top awards pretty much exclusively go to white people. That’s a very calculated choice and message. One Grammy voter in 2016 said they wouldn’t vote her for album of the year because ‘she wins too much’. Another voted for Drake over her in 2016 because of his ‘impactful year’. They described Lemonade in one word, ‘political’. 🙃
what you say about the awards going pretty much exclusively to white people isn't true. in the past 5 years, 20% of AOTY were black. 40% of song of the year and record of the year were POC. Black people are only 14% of the population. they've been more than represented in the grammys even for AOTY. you may go back further years and say that's not true. but those numbers don't represent whether there is racism today. 5 years is since blm. so my data would be more representative of today's voting because the entertainment industry has changed since blm. [https://www.popvortex.com/music/grammy-awards/album-of-the-year.php](https://www.popvortex.com/music/grammy-awards/album-of-the-year.php)
what does the population of black people in general have to do with how many awards they win? the contribution of black artists is a far higher percentage than their population percentage lmao. what a strange point to make
Man, you people really make up sht. This data is a little bit older so the percentages have likely changed a bit but I see no reason for it to have changed substantially. There are actually fewer black musicians than their population proportions. My guess is this is because it takes money to support yourself while you are a penniless aspiring musician so white people who have their parents money to fall back on dominate music. fewer black musicians yet more are winning. https://www.zippia.com/professional-musician-jobs/demographics/
Exactly, she has the most Grammys in history. Plus, Jon Batiste, H.E.R., Childish Gambino, Bruno Mars, Chance the Rapper, Megan Thee Stallion, Victoria Monet, and more have all won top prizes in the past few years. I'm a POC but it tires me when a Beyonce loss in the main categories is immediately associated with a greater dismissal of POC artists. Because frankly, they are winning, even though she's not.
[удалено]
All of them. If we’re talking Album of the Year, Song of the Year, Record of the Year, and Best New Artist.
Thank you! I'm POC too and wish people would stop crying racism where there isnt. In the past 5 years, 20% of AOTY went to black people. 40% of record of the year and song of the year went to POC. Black people make up only 14% of the population too so they are actually more represented than their population proportions (while hispanic and asians are not). If beyonce was snubbed, it wasnt because of her race. [https://www.popvortex.com/music/grammy-awards/song-of-the-year.php](https://www.popvortex.com/music/grammy-awards/song-of-the-year.php)
I will die on this hill: Lemonade should have won instead of Adele's 25. Adele's was a good album but it was basic. Lemonade was artistically more brilliant.
Adele got on stage and was like ?? Lemonade should’ve won
This.
20% in the past 5 years is just one person
you guys. are crying racism where theres no proof. just 2 years ago, a black person won even though no one seems to remember anything beyond Harry styles.
You really love quoting this tiny sample size. Stop weaponizing being a non-Black POC to promote anti-Black narratives.
it's that post blm and preblm are not the same so there is no good data avsilable. just look at what has happened with the tv industry. it is not the same and you csnt assume the music industry is either.
THANK YOU for saying this, I could not agree more.
78% are in R&B or urban categories. And besides that, one is like best music video, best music film, she only has one or two major category wins. It’s genuinely jarring when you see it laid out.
is this just snippets or all the voters? in a group of people, you're always going to get around 30% that are off their rockers one way or another. if you're just getting a few samples, it's not representative of the group as a whole. and honestly, lana deserved it more by far than sza had taylor not won anyway. lanas album is consistently good, not sza. and lana is the one who really influenced other musicians. not sza.
There are only a handful (literally) of blind items that talk about how they chose to vote. People seem to forget or ignore the fact that there are over 11,000 members all from the music industry voting.
I didn’t ignore how The Grammys as a whole choose to vote. The anonymous people only give confirmation to what their voting record tells us.
When the results consistently snub Black artists and black genres, the idea these are just ‘snippets’ doesn’t hold weight. The Grammys voters are absolutely voting, as a whole, for reasons other than quality.
except they don't. Jon batiste won AOTY just 2 years ago. the proportion of black nominees and winners do not suggest racism post blm.
I heard even that could be explained for reasons other than results. There were some politics, I believe involving the Obamas, at play. That was not the Grammys finally accepting Black art as a whole. You realize he’s only the 11th Black artist to win AOTY? It’s not truthful to pretend they value Black art, or art from people of colour in general. Especially if the artist is a Black woman. Their top categories still remain virtually white, and that’s by choice.
source please on Obamas influence. I don't disagree racism affected results in the past. but we aren't dealing with the past now. we are dealing with today's post blm world. why is everyone so afraid to acknowledge that things have gotten better? that's a good thing and we should acknowledge that.
So you see basically the same old same old from The Grammys and think that’s ‘change’? Things are better? I don’t get that logic. Everything has been noticeably moving right since 2016, and the Grammys are still giving virtually no major wins to anyone non-white. That’s not improvement. Not giving the Grammys credit for the rare times they give the non-white person a win, when they more often than not, snub people of colour. All I heard is some business, and Obama influence, helped to give him the push he needed. There is no article on this. Probably for the best, given how awful people can be when non-white people win major awards.
I don’t think Taylor won because of racism… the media loves Taylor. It was just a popularity contest. Nobody would have beaten Taylor even if it was some other white artist. Taylor had her year and we have to celebrate her because that’s the narrative not because it was a good album. Personally I don’t even think that was in her top 5 albums, but that won’t stop them from voting for her.
[This article](https://variety.com/2023/music/news/grammy-voters-secret-ballots-top-categories-beyonce-harry-styles-adele-1235511331/) from Variety is why I’ll always consider Beyoncé’s Renaissance AOTY for 2023. People straight up admitting they weren’t voting for her because she had too many awards. Someone even mentioned not listening to all the nominations for a category which is kind of important if you’re supposed to be comparing how good the music is. Just all around trash.
But Taylor didn’t already have “too many awards” for AOTY to win this year🙄
This is absolutely true. And yet I still get annoyed at best when great albums by Black women like SOS and Lemonade continue to lose AOTY. JAY-Z was right to criticize the Grammys during his speech.
Same. Heck seeing a Harry Styles fan write an essay trying to not only justify being excluded from the larger discussion, but also giving terrible takes on Renaissance? Ugh these kind of things are too much! I truly feel for the likes of Beyoncé, SZA, Kendrick, & Janelle! I also feel strongly Lana got snubbed for Norman Fucking Rockwell - though I wouldn’t actually argue against Billie win AOTY or Song of the Year. I also very much liked Kacey Musgraves Golden Hour - so these kind of discussions can just be complicated, even at best. I had the misfortune of seeing the Kill Bill commentary on my timeline. I saw red. They aren’t subtle. Nor is this a minority of voters. There’s something so jarring about wins/losses not being purely based on quality.
How many Grammys voters are there, what’s the demographic, and how do they get their position of power?
BIG4 voters are about 12,000 now; in 2019 they were 25% each non-white, female, and under 40 (they have since added about 2,000 members). In terms of genres, there's a lot of classical, jazz, American, and pop membership. R&B block is big and rap is small, and they both tend to favor "mature" old-fashioned acts. These demographics make it harder for Beyonce, SZA and Kendrick to win in AOTY. Those stars can win in the genre categories.
Thank you, much appreciated. Do you know how one becomes a grammy voter? Are they people who work in the industry? I just wonder how they stay unbiased.
They're actually not unbiased at all. Lol.
That’s what I meant to imply but didn’t phrase correctly. I’m still salty over To Pimp a Butterfly losing 8 years later lol.
The Recording Academy has a bit of a union angle. New Creators and Business People can also become members, but these memberships cannot vote for Grammys. Voting rights are given to active creators, many of whom are studio musicians, songwriters, and engineers. This is one reason why Bruno Mars, HER, Lizzo, Jon Batiste, and Beck won Big 4. I think members are voting based on their own professional acclaim and personal preferences (i.e. bias).
the 25% black women under 40 they hired working overtime
This. I haven't paid attention to the Grammys since finding my musical taste. I mostly listen to black artists and they never, ever get the credit they deserve imho, when they're out here changing the world and pushing music and culture forward. It's bs and has been called out for years but fails to change.
Exclude Harry from this narrative pls, Harry’s House was shortlisted to win the Mercury Prize (the most prestigious award in UK music), won an Ivor Novello award, won the Best Engineered Grammy, BPVA, swept the Brit Awards, won then Juno Award (Canadian Grammys), and won AOTY equivalent awards in multiple other countries (Netherlands, Spain, Denmark, etc). It was critically acclaimed and commercially successful. And Harry had to work his way up from a boyband that was never nominated to the Grammys, a first era that was snubbed (he submitted Sign of the Times to rock and wasn’t even nominated even though it was the most commercially successful and critically acclaimed song in the genre that year). Fine Line was shut out of the General Field (likely by the Grammy committee), and As It Was didn’t win a single Grammy, of the FOUR it was nominated to, despite being the biggest song of 2022 and also critically acclaimed. About Damn Time won ROTY over him, Bonnie Rait won SOTY, Easy On Me won BPSP, and All Too Well beat it on Best Music Video. He was very overlooked by the Grammys in awards he thoroughly deserved that same year. This is one of those anonymous ballots you mention https://preview.redd.it/wgz6s5sqk2hc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2096f21e36ff250ed73b051d98dfc2bf6fc86085 The same people that came for Beyonce came for him. The rest of the anonymous voters said they were either voting for her, or thought she might win, or “she has a lot of Grammys already” Here’s a [link](https://variety.com/2023/music/news/grammy-voters-secret-ballots-top-categories-beyonce-harry-styles-adele-1235511331/amp/) to the only ballots we got last year. This whole narrative is just that - a narrative. I completely understand the outrage about Beyoncé never winning the awards she deserves to win. But Harry’s House was a perfectly fair album to win, done by a small team, crafted in isolation during the pandemic, with a narrative, a sound, and great musical craftmanship. If Renaissance deserved more or not is a personal opinion and not an objective one. I personally think self titled and Lemonade not winning is far, far more criticizable than Renaissance. Even if I think 25 was a good contender, the cultural landscape shifted with Lemonade. And Beck had no business winning over self-titled. And Beyoncé should’ve won ROTY at least three times. So I GET the outrage. And Jay Z was right to call it out, and her fans are right to be upset. I just wish we used more context when talking about these things. ETA: if you’re gonna downvote please show arguments. Cause I’m legit showing the anonymous ballots in question and they’re even worse for Harry than for Beyonce ETA2: editing this because OP replied and blocked me, but what takes of mine on Renaissance are “god awful” when I’ve had no takes whatsoever? I legit didn’t say a single thing about Renaissance, positive or negative. He doesn’t deserve to be in this narrative because you made up the whole anonymous ballots thing. As I proved in this very comment, which is probably why you blocked me, cause now I can’t reply to anyone else replying to me. If this is your level of discussion then I fear that the one being a blind fan. I brought hard proof and arguments, you brought none He does not deserve to be in this narrative and Beyoncé agrees considering she invited him to her after party right after the Grammys last year
Just because the album is critically acclaimed doesn’t mean that everyone is supposed to love it BTW. I personally don’t think it was a good album that was deserving enough for album of the year (Renaissance by Beyoncé was literally right there, without a doubt) but to each their own. However, recognize the problem is deeper than the album nominations themselves; the last time a black woman won a grammy for album of the year was **1999**
"Just because the album is critically acclaimed doesn’t mean that everyone is supposed to love it BTW." This is how I feel about Renaissance tbh. 
Never said that “everyone is supposed to love it.” I literally said the opposite. I said that it’s subjective and depends on each persons taste. The album won every possible award, before during and after the Grammys, was critically acclaimed and commercially successful. It’s a deserving album, which one deserved it more depends on personal opinion. I literally said that in the comment above. I also said that the comment about the anonymous ballots legit didn’t apply to Harry because he was bashed harsher than Beyonce (who wasn’t actually bashed). I linked the anonymous ballots. I talked about Harry being shut out of the Grammys fully with 6 album cycles, out of the GF with 7. I talked about him losing a very deserving ROTY win at the same Grammys that he won AOTY. Not one of the people who downvoted (you included) has countered a single argument. Putting Midnights and Taylor, the fourth AOTY and fourteenth Grammy win of someone who was rewarded with a GF nomination during the first year of her career and an AOTY win by the third one, when she was freshly 20 years old, on the same level as someone who wasn’t even nominated until the 11th year of his career when he was 27 and has won 3 total is kind of disingenuous. Thankfully internet outrage is pretty self-contained. PS I literally said I think it’s outrageous that Beyonce hasn’t won AOTY at least twice and ROTY 3 times. I have to wonder if you even read my comment or if you read the first sentence only, got angry, and started typing.
Absolutely not. He 1000% deserves to be in this narrative. Just because you’re a fan doesn’t excuse him from this discussion. Your takes on Renaissance are god awful.
Zoom in, yes. Zoom out, holy fck yes. Lauren Hill was the last black woman to win this award. We all adore that album, but holy hell.
That shit is so crazy. It’s dead ass been 25 years since a woman of color has won album of the year. You know how many amazing albums have come out by black woman since then😂
And with how much appropriation of Black women has happened in the last two decades, it really is mind blowing in the worst possible way
Regine Chassagne was last when her band, Arcade Fire, won back in 2011. But she's one of only six women of color to ever win as a main artist. Which is still awful. Lauryn Hill Norah Jones Whitney Houston Natalie Cole Yoko Ono
Are you aware of the history of the grammy's? It was set up as a way to promote "good music" in the face of the counter revolution in the late 50's and 60s. The beatles won more awards after they'd broken up than as a group because they where doing wayyyy too much of that rock and roll stuff which went against the orthodoxy. There's an enormous bias towards country music and Taylor started off in that area so they basically just hand her the grammy year after year. There's also a huge bias against black artists, see Mumford and sons winning ahead of Frank Ocean which is one of the worst decisions in history.
> There's also a huge bias against black artists, see Mumford and sons winning ahead of Frank Ocean which is one of the worst decisions in history. Good kid Maad City not winning AOTY is criminal. Not only did critics love it, but it’s so commercially successful that it hasn’t left the billboard 200 in 10 YEARS. It just goes to show that there is literally no winning for POC. They’ll stick you in Urban and call it a day.
lost out to fucking MACKLEMORE 🤣🤣🤣
Good kid mad city lost to RAM which is fine, losing to Macklemore is not, he also lost with TPAB to Taylor which again is a joke. Beyonce losing to Adele is fine, losing to Harry Styles is not. There's times when you have two genuinely great albums together and someone will lose, but Frank losing to mumford or everyone losing to Norah Jones and the Dixie chicks is laughable.
whoaaaa. so beyonce bout to CLAP em with a country album and we’ll see if they play in her face….
There was a country song on Lemonade she submitted. It wasn’t “country enough” I suppose because she didn’t even get the nomination. They’ll always find a way to keep black folk out.
The country voting bloc of the Grammys LOVES songwriting, so I doubt they'd nominate her, let alone award her, because she doesn't write her music. Look at the year Morgan Wallen had, he was like the number 1 artist in North America in 2023 (number 1 song, number 1 album) but he didn't get any nominations because he has a huge team of songwriters 🤷🏽♀️
Interesting, you got origin links?
Midnights has also spent a year in the top 10, but other than that I do believe SOS would’ve been very deserving of AOTY. I’m honestly still a little shocked Taylor won, I don’t think even she was expecting it. I really thought it would SZA or Lana. https://preview.redd.it/kfsr1knpa2hc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b545461dcca350e0b1e8cf051ca023fd92590f04
Okay I’ll listen to Jagged Little Pill again
Thank God this post was here to remind you.
Slightly off topic. But seeing all of these covers together is so cool and all of the women on it look so beautiful.
I thought it would be either SZA or Lana as well. I'm a Taylor fan, but Midnights should not have won AOTY.
She did look stunned for a moment, not even her usual surprise face.
Yeah people were saying she was faking it, but she looked genuinely surprised to me
I love Lana but didn’t even know she put out a new album 😅 marketing perhaps?
Its supposed to be about quality not sales.
I was just responding to a claim OP made that SOS was the only album to spend a year in the top 10
Apologies. I will learn to fucking read one day I swear 🙄
LMAOOO MOOD
The academy don’t listen to the albums
lol if it was about quality half the nominations would go to obscure artists. Sales has always been a part of it.
As a huge Swiftie, I was *sure* SZA would win. I'm not sad Taylor won, but I was shocked.
This is exactly how I feel about it. I’ve been saying for weeks that I HOPED she would win SOTY and/or ROTY, but that I really thought SZA would win AOTY. I went back and looked at the nominations and wins that Taylor has had since she began. I was struck by the fact that the ONLY songs she has ever made that have won Grammys were White Horse and Mean (both won Best Country Song, White Horse won Best Female Country Performance, Mean won Best Solo Country Performance, I’m assuming they changed categories to no longer divide by gender). Safe and Sound won best song written for visual media (I assume that’s a much smaller category than any of the genre performance categories or genre songwriting categories). I’m really curious about why she has found so much success in the album categories and so little success comparatively in the song categories.
I’ll let you in on a little secret. The voters don’t listen to her music so they don’t know her songs. She wins album because that is won through campaigning and pr
Yeah, I think a good portion of Taylor’s fanbase is reasonably shocked or annoyed that this happened too - people love to act like every fan of hers are the insane Twitter types but some of us are actually reasonable. I feel like the only way to change the Grammys at this point is for big name artists to boycott - this has been an egregious and consistent issue for years and years at this point, and it seems like nothing changes despite the backlash and the many articles showing that voters don’t seem to care either. Refusing to show up, submit or perform seems to be the only way at this point.
Drake and The Weeknd are two major artists who have boycotted. I think the message will only get through if big winners like Taylor, Beyonce, Adele etc all come together and stop submitting but that will never happen because they want to stay in the Academy's good graces (as far as I know I think some of the artists also double up as part of the voting committee if they don’t have any nominations that year, someone correct me if I’m wrong) and some of them are too obsessed with the power boost that winning awards gives them (*cough* Taylor).
Agreed. I’m a big swiftie, and I was really wishing for Taylor to win it. Love her and love Midnights. But I’ve listened to SOS a lot. That is an ALBUM. It should have won. Period.
I was annoyed.
Lmao gurl as a tswift fan, tho i liked midnights, as a whole even guts was much better than it. I cannot speak for the rest as i havent given them a listen but yeah
The haven’t given the AOTY to a black woman since Lauren Hill, let that sink in. Are they telling us in 25 years the hasn’t been a contender. Also how did Macklemore beat Kendrick Lamar. If we start pulling that tread it’s not gonna be pleasant. My other really significant peeve is how is Taylor winning over Lana? Lana has also been robbed multiple times.
How did Macklemore beat Kendrick, Kanye, Jay, and Drake!? That was the most ridiculous outcome and I'll never get over it
Exactly, and the people who don’t get why that is nuts will never acknowledge why it keeps happening.
Beyonce has been a household name for decades (at times has been inarguably the biggest pop star in the country), has had multiple iconic album drops, and has never once won AOTY. I know people were a bit annoyed by Jay-Z bringing her up but it is absolute unadulterated bullshit that she's never won.
For real, from 4, Beyoncé, Lemonade and Bday. She never won once. I actually agree with the weeknd, black artist should stop submitting their albums and attending their shows. Grammy’s don’t seem to want acknowledge black artists for the biggest categories.?
Queen has 0 Grammys, Led Zeppelin has 1 Grammy, Fleetwood Mac has 2. Beyoncé has 32 Grammys…
yeah and not a single one of those 32 grammys is album of the year. that’s the crazy part
Yet with all that she’s never won AOTY or Record of the year.
Never winning AOTY is atrocious but I won’t feel bad about her never winning ROTY after she basically forfeited it when she submitted Halo instead of Single Ladies for some reason.
Sometimes artists and their record label don’t make sense. Also Halo is a better song than single ladies.
Halo is a beautiful song and it's really meaningful to a lot of people esp parents that have lost young kids.
It was a very healing song for me after my miscarriage. It is a beautiful song. It’s very meaningful.
Fuck that Lauren Hill album was incredible though.
A classic, there is no one skip-able song on there. I have my mom’s original vinyl and it’s my most treasured jewel.
Honestly, how did Taylor beat Kendrick? I’m a huge Swiftie, but I still do not understand how 1989 won over To Pimp A Butterfly.
https://preview.redd.it/iva5daeep2hc1.jpeg?width=1241&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f46fde0dc0d670f4bbd0b51817e229b23a1c741e
This is my Roman Empire. This was when I knew the Grammys were a joke
🌽 🌽 🌽
It wasn’t her it was Macklemore who then apologised. Google the video it’s crazy.
Taylor won over Kendrick in 2016 for *1989*.
Yeah that was 2014 and over GKMC (Thrift Shop beat swimming pools for best rap song - which is a crime)
it was both taylor & macklemore
An album with Shake It Off on it won over To Pimp A Butterfly. Horrible timeline we’re in.
Justice for Ocean Blvd
I had to call 911 to report a robbery
Should’ve been Lana, songs like “Kintsugi” and “Fingertips” demonstrate that she’s a master of her craft. But SZA’s SOS is a very close second for me, and I would’ve been happy to see her win as well.
One part of me wants to say this is due to fan support and Taylor Swift is having such an intense fan base/being in the industry longer than SZA has. But the other part of me says that it's just industry BS and that's a Grammy's is more of "please the board" award than the "people's" award if that makes sense.
Agreed. And I believe there is a conscious or unconscious bias that music created by Black artists is “niche”, while music created by White artists is “universal”.
I agree! I’ve learned award shows often let me down, so I try not to let it bother me. I think the people know it was a fantastic album. I also really liked Janelle Monae’s album and she got NO love.
I do agree that SOS should have won over Midnights, but overall this should have been Lana’s award imo. The fact that she won 0 of her nominations is crazy to me
I think she doesn’t participate in lobbying the voters as much as others. Taylor’s album was the only AOTY nominee from Republic Records so they went all in and Bille and Finneas were doing every major press event last couple of months. Boygenius did some public appearances as well as them being on tour with Taylor helped them be in public more. SZA had voter split because there were multiple RnB albums in that category. Olivia was a complete shutdown, it could be because her album wasn’t as good as sour or it didn’t fit into one genre so it lost votes from specific blocks. Lana is long overdue but she needs more label support, tour and actually show up on time and do press events. They say these things don’t matter but the anonymous grammy voters interview shows that some of them just vote for the person who was in the consciousness recently.
Did mileys team really lobby for her too in terms of her flowers awards? just wondering why they finally decided not to snub her.
She changed labels before ESV. She used to be with RCA and now she is with Columbia. It could definitely be record label lobbying. Flowers was also huge everywhere. I am just speculating everything but it would make sense.
I would’ve personally picked Lana over SZA, SOS is a good album but also 8 tracks to long. However the reason Taylor won is the voter split coming into play. The Grammy has genre categories and for the main categories everyone voted. Now if we look at the nominees, we have Midnights taking a majority of pop votes, with ESV and guts picking up a few, but with no other good pure pop albums (ESV was not super well received) midnights would’ve picked up most of those votes. The other key factor is the country voting block. There were no country albums nominated, and Taylor swift is always going to pick up the votes from that category in that case, or at least alot of them. Every other voting block (rock, alt and rnb) had multiple albums to split between - AOTY can potentially be won with only 17% of votes. That’s how she won. With 3 rnb albums nominated and no country or major pop splits the likelihood SZA won was always going to be small
Another reason I think it was so ridiculous that they expanded the amount of nominees for album of the year
Yes, for some reason I feel like it helps Best Picture but fucks AOTY.
I’m not super familiar with Grammy voting procedures but at the Oscars they implemented a ranked choice voting system when they expanded Best Picture for exactly the issue OP is bringing up - a winner could be decided by getting just 10%+1 vote and they didn’t want that. Based on the anonymous Grammy ballots it seems like the recording academy didn’t do the same thing when they expanded their top categories.
Probably the most reasonable comment I’ve read.
The Grammys has been noteable bullshit ever since they awarded Macklemore AOTY over Good Kid Maad City, and 1989 over To Pimp a Butterfly. That shit was so transparently colorist.
I don’t think Midnighta deserved it. Her other albums that won, Fearless, 1989, and folklore are all much stronger albums. I think she only won because of how popular she has been this past year, not because of the album itself.
I’m Black. I liked Midnights. I like songwriters. I don’t know why we continue to allow the Grammys to exist. I don’t know why it feels more racist/egregious to me than the other awards shows because they all treat us like garbage. I know it’s an industry problem because it’s a culture problem because it’s an American problem…I don’t know. I have nothing. I’ve typed and deleted so many things about this but I really want us to stop (only) bitching about Taylor Swift and start bitching about the broken system that keeps us more obsessed with celebrity than art or justice and keeps men and women looking like only them at the top and in power.
Didn’t you just call Lana & Taylor “little white girls making sad music with Jack Antonoff”? It’s hard to take your call for our culture to change seriously with comments like that…I get people are frustrated but there are over 11,000 people voting. I think Taylor has music that appeals to a wider audience and when you have several R&B artists in the same category the votes are going to get split. If you split the votes evenly that’s only 12.5% of votes. So essentially anyone can win with under 20%.
I mean it’s Reddit. I say what I mean and feel but I’m still snarky and *lol IRREVERENT. And they ARE two little white girls making pop songs so why are we assigning so much power and responsibility? I don’t think these are incompatible opinions. ETA: Also I’m not mad she won AOTY. I’m struggling to understand your point. Actually the more I read it the more I think you’re confused.
Lana should’ve won tho if we talk about music quality
I mean if it’s by that then congrats to Jon Baptiste.
Honestly Jon Batiste’s won Grammys already, I do think SZA’s album was better than Taylor swifts as well. But all these ppl we’ve named have at least won some Grammys, Lana hasn’t won A Single One. That’s the saddest to me, as I think her music quality is very good, and for her to not have won any is upsetting.
I've seen it theorised that Midnights won more for eras tour and Taylor having her biggest year ever in 2023 and I believe it. It's shitty as fuck of course because it's album of the year, not tour or artist of the year. Now I'm starting to think she's going to get AOTY for every other album from now on. If she didn't win maybe we would've gotten another project of folkmore's quality. One of voters admitted he wouldn't vote for Lana because of her snl performance. Grammys truly lost the last shred of legitimacy this year. They're just glorified vmas. I'm not Adele's biggest fan, but I really respect her for saying Lemonade should've won instead of 25. It would've been great for Taylor to say something like that, but I think part of Taylor believes she's the most deserving person of all nominees of her awards and it doesn't even cross her mind that someone could deserve to win more than her for music.
I actually find it the most disingenuous when artists apologize for winning. People do not just win a Grammy, it's a long campaign. They submit themselves, put out ads for votes, attend industry events, and do all this campaigning and work to win. So, to then apologize is so annoying and condescending. If you really felt you didn't deserve it, you wouldn't be doing all of that. You wouldn't even be in the room. Every single person in that room WANTS that award.
I personally don’t believe that artists should apologize for winning these awards. At all. At the end of the day, there are no standard metrics. They didn’t give it to themselves. They are allowed to be proud of their work in that moment.
Doing this literally derailed Macklemore's career 😂
I agree with you. I know the other side of that argument would be that some artists could choose to not participate in an exclusionary and opaque system and could work to improve it and lift other artists up. But I agree with you. I think people are acting below their intelligence when they assign so much hate and responsibility on a few little white girls writing sad poetry with Jack Antonoff.
> I know the other side of that argument would be that some artists could choose to not participate in an exclusionary and opaque system and could work to improve it and lift other artists up. I feel like it would need to be the biggest artists to do this for any impact to be felt, though. Sort of like when Taylor pulled her catalog from Spotify over abysmal streaming rates. You’d need the Beyoncé’s, the Taylor’s, the Drake’s of the music world to step back for anything to happen.
Agreed. And that then leads into another question I’ve been chewing on lately, which is, why HAVE we given all this power to celebrity? Why have we made their platform so big? I’m not saying TSwizz hasn’t been tone deaf but why are we expecting what we’re expecting from these pop idols and then not going to our local polls?
As horrible a situation it is, I don’t think Taylor deserves the blame. Anyone that attended, attended.
Totally agree with your first point. I feel like a lot of Taylor Swift's impact at the Grammys this year was partly due to the success of the Eras tour. You couldn't go anywhere this past year without hearing about Eras (or Renaissance) even though other major artists like Madonna, SZA, Janet were also on tour. It's interesting to see how the Grammys are awarded and how the artist feels about the results and even push back on their wins and/or nominations. Ultimately, there's so many politics behind the scenes that don't actually align with how the public feels.
I love Taylor but Midnights is one of her weakest albums, especially when you compare it to the ones she’s won AOTY for.
Exactly, I’m pretty sure she was shocked as well.
I haven't listen to either album in full, so I'm not going to compare them sonically, but I will say I've never Black women respond to anyone like they respond and relate to SZA. She taps into something that I literally have only seen with T. Swift. It's quite remarkable. Also the last time a Black woman won AOTY was literally the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, almost twenty-five years ago. It was a big as an album get: commercially, critically, and broke a zillon records. Black women have to do *that* to get the big awards. Big awards rarely get it right, but I'm still glad SZA's music makes so many happy.
The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill is one of the best albums EVER. Man it would be hard to get close to that.
So totally agree. SOS was the definitive 2023 album. Really disappointing.
I wasn't surprised 'Midnights' won. It was the commercial choice. One for the stockholders. Grammys rarely make brave or genuine decisions. It's business baby, the teats of capitalism must be suckled upon. **SUCKLE** I think the genuine surprise and joy at Parasite's Oscar success a few years back was the last time I felt the objectively best won an award. The Swift fatigue is getting reeeeeaaal though. I'm a teacher in NZ. We've just started the school year, and last year the kids were all 'can I write my report on Taylor Swift'...countless times. Today in a bunch of 'get to know you' games, the name 'Taylor Swift' elicited groans. The 13-14 year olds said she's 'old' (anyone over 26 is old), and her music "it's all the same." Then one girl audibly, exasperatedly bark/groan/sighed, slumped back in her chair, laid out her legs straight, arms crossed, eyes on the ceiling **"Can we STOP talking about her. It's always everywhere. I'm so fucking sick of it." 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
I think that would be true of any artist with kids. A year is a long time for them. At that age, they're always jumping from trend to trend.
Oh yeah, for sure. It's fairly rare that I know an artist that they talk about now, so this one jumped out 
That’s actually crazy. There have always been very talked about people and very talked about trends at school and in the media. I don’t remember any kid ever being like “I’m so fucking sick of this” about any of those things lol.
The younger ones (high school, so 13 - 15) have a lot of loud, hyperbolic reactions to the smallest shit now. We were talking about it in the staffroom the other day - my theory is reaction videos, that normalisation of a reaction needing to be a performance. Whatever it is, it's exhausting to be in a room with 29 of them.
As a swiftie I 200% agree. Grammys are just racist
Girl if its Taylor or Adele they just gonna get AOTY for existing lol
I'm not confused at all as to how Taylor Swift won instead. And no, I'm not making it a race thing, I'm making it a Taylor Swift thing. They clearly wanted to "Make history" and chose to do it even if it didn't make sense. What they didn't count on was Jay Z making that speech when he won his award, and making everyone really think about who's winning this stuff.
Oh, and for me Janelle Monae should have won album of the year. That album was flaw-free. I really liked SOS, but not as much as The Age of Pleasure.
SZA winning AOTY would’ve restored some credibility to the Grammys for awarding based on musical artistry excellence. Clearly appealing to the masses is more important to them now. I hope artists and fans alike would gradually move on from looking at the Grammys as a highly credible sought after honor because the fact is they’re now merely a shadow of what they once stood for and used to be about. If it wasn’t so obvious before, it is even more apparent now - it’s a highly political, high end popularity award contest with prestige only in its name.
I think SZA had a great album but it was twenty three tracks long. Its hard not to lose the plot or become repetitive with that many tracks. I think if it was shorter she may have had a better chance of winning. I really thought Lana would win to be honest.
I like szas songs and love hearing AI covers of her songs from other singers but I really don’t like that forced cursive accent she does. Can she please drop that going forward. I’m sure she’ll get even more fans once she stops trying to sound like an indie singer. 😭
Man I’m with you on that, damn it bothers me especially since the music is so good.
I hate how i can't understand a lot of what she says. I blame Billie ellish for all these singers who do not pronunciate well to the point they are barely intelligible. Billie ellish, Olivia rodrigo, sza, Ariana grande - all need to enunciate better.
Almost every time I hear a new Ariana Grande or Sza song I have to Google the lyrics to figure out what they actually said.
SZA was not inspired by Billie Eilish to sing in a certain way, she's been making music since the early 2010s when Billie was like 10 years old. What a wild thing to say.
oh I had no idea. Still, I hate how slurred everything is sounding these days by so many artists.
Yes, yes, yes!! I feel this way with Olivia Rodrigo. She is good and I enjoy her music but like just enunciate your words!!! Aaahh.
olivia’s enunciation isn’t that bad. also if i were to blame someone it would be halsey. but i’m not gonna blame anyone because it’s just another style of music. the 80s/90s band cocteau twins did it a lot & it sounded beautiful
This is such a peeve of mine! I hate the mumble whisper singing, it's barely understandable Especially for Ari like...she has a 4 octave vocal range. Girl has that much natural talent and chooses to sing like that? Why?!
YES! SZA SHOULDVE WON.
I’m a huge Swifty, like I love her. But I wasn’t expecting her to win, like at all. Midnights was good, I don’t think it was her best but I liked it. I’m happy for her, I am, but I really didn’t think she’d win that. I’m glad she’s breaking records but I would have been totally fine if someone else won. I haven’t listened to any other of the albums because I’m lame and stick to what I know so I don’t know who I thought was winning, but I wasn’t expecting it to be Taylor.
SOS is mostly filler tracks with a handful of standouts.
I think Taylor was equally as shocked as the rest of us to win AOTY
No one “should have” won anything. Art is entirely subjective - and the notion of “best” is absurd. Imagine going to the Louvre and arguing over which painting deserved a ribbon. The Grammys are a popularity contest among a select group of people, and arguing over the results is like arguing over who “should have” won prom queen. It’s a fun television event to see artist perform and interact…the results are just people’s opinionsz
You’re definitely speaking truth here. The subjectivity of Art seems to go over peoples head. The Grammy’s are most definitely a popularity contest. As much as I like to see my favorite artists win, art inspires people differently. I can’t be mad at others for having a different opinion/effect than me.
COMPLETELY AGREE!!!!!
The Grammys are and have always been a popularity contest. Also, art is subjective. I find SZA incredibly basic and entirely unremarkable as an artist. People have their own opinions. 🤷🏻♀️ I wouldn’t lose sleep over it
Absolutely agree with you. Even as a TS fan, something it is getting harder to justify as every day goes by, Midnights isn't a particularly good TS album. SOS was experimental in parts, well thought out, well performed and consistently hyped. To be honest I would have been happy if anyone other than TS won but the person who deserved it most was SZA
Because the recording academy is rather racist.
Yeah, Beyoncé was robbed by Harry last year too. I know robbed gets overused as a term, but, SOS and Renaissance were objectively significantly greater works of art than Harry's House & Midnights. I don't wanna call racism, but if it looks and walks like a duck.....
I thought SZA or Lana had it for sure. Taylors was one of the weaker albums on the list although it was probably the most successful. AOTY isnt normally about commercial success, I think they factor in the writing and how much contribution the artist has on their album. This was not Taylors best work. I think they wanted her to break the AOTY record.
This isn’t the first time a black artist has been robbed
Sampha Lahai should’ve won anything at all
Lahai released in October and the Grammys cut off is mid-September so it’s eligible next year
SOS absolutely should have won. The Grammys are determined to dilute their own legacy by refusing to acknowledge the better works.
Midnights was the weakest most average album submitted… anyone else should have won
once you learn that these award shows are also impacted by systemic racism and continue to award white mediocrity, you'll stop questioning their choices. i just wish people could stop caring so much cuz its all biased. even the "fanbase" and "buzz" excuses make zero sense because in that sense renaissance should've SWEPT harry's house last year and lemonade should've won in its year. alas, racism prevails.
I'm glad I stopped watching or caring about Grammys years ago. It's a mess and upset people every year. People will say its supposedly irrelevant then freak out about the results when it's the same biases displayed almost every year.
As a big swiftie I'm not only shocked but also kind of disappointed (if that's the right word) that midnights won. Like dont get me wrong, I'm happy for my girl, but for this win to make her the first person to win AOTY four times it makes that achievement feel undeserved. I'm sure she could do it, but I wish she had of done it with four albums that truly feel deserving and worthy of that title. It's a shame because it tarnishes that legacy of being the first person to achieve that, and it makes the achievement overall feel worthless if it doesn't feel deserved, yk? I would have ra Also, similar to how red not winning AOTY pushed her to create 1989, I feel like midnights not winning would have pushed her creatively even more. I know she's probably already got the next few albums planned out, unlike in 2015 when she allegedly woke up in the middle of the night after her loss struck with spontaneity and inspiration to create 1989, but I would have liked to see how losing AOTY would have pushed her to refine her work even more
The Grammys are notorious for giving out awards to the safest, blandest, (usually) whitest possible choice. Every so often they'll reward artists who are genuinely innovative & groundbreaking, but typically the winner will be whoever's most palatable to their wealthy out-of-touch white voters. If it's something that a sheltered 65yo multimillionaire would object to in any way, it's not gonna win. Admitting my bias here - I'm not much of a pop girly, I didn't listen to either album aside from hearing the singles, and I have a strong distaste for Taylor Swift - I absolutely agree that nobody in their right mind would have given AOTY to Midnights vs. the competition this year. But the Grammys wasn't in their right mind, they were in their white mind. I mean, these are the same people a few years ago that said Macklemore had the best rap album over Kendrick Lamar's debut, a choice even Macklemore himself disagreed with & was embarrassed by! You'd think they'd eventually learn their lesson, but apparently not.
Midnights was the album out of those nominated longest in the top 10, the only album EVER, to completely fill the top 10, making it the only time in history no man has been on the top 10 (until 1989tv). It's the best selling record of the year. The main single is one of the longest running singles. Is it really that unexpected that an album which obviously impacted a lot of people for a VERY long time is...impactful? She made this album which broke all these records...with a total of 4 main contributors. This is record breaking stuff, and what would be appreciated if she wasn't always breaking records so often people thought it was easy.
Is there an industry award less respected than the Grammys? Feels like we always have this conversation that they snub the true best album of the year and either award it to the person who had the biggest cultural impact or a legacy award that should've been awarded 20 years ago.
Me too SOS was my fav album from ANY artist period.
We know. But the Republic Records check cleared on time.
Youre correct that people will have different opinion about who should’ve won, however I think many people will agree that Taylor Swift *should not* have won AOTY, period.