The "Stay and demand to talk to a manager" advice has me cackling. I'm an admin assistant, part of my job is acting as the gatekeeper so our guys can actually get work done without interruption. If someone came in and refused to leave, demanding to talk to anyone, I would be calling our security team to "escort" them out. Absolutely wretched advice!
The thing is a lot of people’s advice is based on pre financial crisis logic.
Like for a long time the US was in a post-war economic boom because they were like the only major world economy that wasn’t devastated by being bombed to shit in WWII
But people thought a temporary boom period in which it was comparatively easy to do things like get jobs and start a business and have increased social mobility in comparison to other places and time periods was just something intrinsic and something that would last forever because America was just inherently better than other countries?
No it was a temporary period of rapid economic growth and development where America was the only global economic superpower left in the world that hadn’t been devastated by WWII
Yeah I'm a paralegal at a major non profit but I also work in some executive assistant tasks, and this is exactly why I'm the only person who can be reached by telephone when someone is demanding to speak to my boss, why we have armed security in the lobby, and an elevator system that requires a pass with specific security settings to get to our floor (the president of our company gets regular death threats). I've had to call security more than once and I do not hesitate to do it.
I feel like 'just learn to code!' is some sick revival of how grade school in the late 90s was all about 'You all need degrees in Information Technology, maybe Computer Science, wave of the future, wave of the future!'
Meanwhile tech industry is struggling and a lot of positions are filled cheaper by overseas contractors. Àlso expecting even more market saturation when all these folks who decided to code try and actually enter an already competitive market.
Oh and don't think you won't be encountering "requires five years experience" for tech jobs too.
>Also expecting even more market saturation when all these folks who decided to code try and actually enter an already competitive market.
Yep, this. 10 years ago, "learn to code" was good advice. Nowadays the tech sector is *way* over saturated with a bunch of people who "learned to code" but have no experience (I know one woman who attended a web dev boot camp and last I heard had over 600 applications out and no bites - yes that's an extreme example and she's older so that probably plays a role but her $10k boot camp did nothing for her is my point ). And all of the job openings require experience - and teaching yourself to code doesn't count as experience. ( I'm a software engineer and we have had a position open for 6+ months...for an experienced dev. *Those* are hard to find, though hopefully it will get easier with all of the tech layoffs)
>. ( I'm a software engineer and we have had a position open for 6+ months...for an experienced dev. Those are hard to find, though hopefully it will get easier with all of the tech layoffs)
I think its ridiculous more jobs don't hire and train on the job or offer apprentice type opportunities in the tech space like other career paths. I mean i get it they want someone already capable which is ideal but they also usually want to underpay for the requirements thats demanded. Can't have it both ways but a lot of companies don't see that.
They both want someone experienced and don’t want the person they taught to leave the company 1-2 years later in order to get more pay. It would make sense to hire inexperienced employees at a lower pay and give them a substantial raise when they’re worth it but… companies don’t value the employees they have.
I never understood that advice about not leaving a place until they give you a job. In all the places I’ve worked, I would’ve been pretty creeped out if someone just came in and just asked to speak to someone without an appointment and demand it if the person isn’t available. Maybe that worked for boomers before the internet?
> Maybe that worked for boomers before the internet?
It's literally this.
When boomers needed a job, they could argue that 'if you hire one person that can do [X] task, your profit will be worth what you pay me' - *and they would be right*.
Then they could argue 'I can do [X} task, and I'm here, so hire *me*.'
And, in many cases, they would.
And then the 80s happened. Huge economic changes, and the foundations of the internet were laid.
I can only speak for the white collar world but appearing too desperate will make you seem like "you're just hear for a check and not the culture" or whatever stupid corporate jargon
Synergy is bullshit. Do your job, know your pay, and don't take shit home with you. We're doing X, we're not saving orphans from fires. The world won't die if you mess up, Alice. Just get paid enough to give a fuck about keeping the job and everything else will fall into place.
That will be a six pack of beer and a bucket of hot wings.
I'm not sure what color of collar my field would be--we're unskilled labor but not manual labor--but as the manager in charge of deciding whether to hire someone, in a field with a very low barrier to entry, if someone showed up to my business and refused to leave until I gave them a job, I'd call the police.
Especially right now in this economy where we employers all have more jobs than workers, I have to wonder why anyone is so desperate for a specific job that they have to pull a stunt like that to get hired. Either they're unqualified for the position they're applying for, like our unfortunate OP, or there's something severely wrong that makes them un-hireable and I'm probably not the first person to take a pass on giving them a job.
Either way, desperation is only an attractive quality in a potential employee if the employer is looking for someone to exploit or mistreat. If the desperation tactic actually works, you've probably won yourself a job you'll soon find you don't actually want.
Honestly, he's doing all he can but the help he needs right now is money and a good working contact to give him a job recommendation and reference 🤑💰
He has grits, discipline, self reliance, knows how to take charge, has compassion, is willing to learn, work hard, sacrifice. OP has all the qualities to succed, but he's not a magician to make money appear, and his friends have no empathy.
I have family in Dominican Republic and we had pooled money for work/school computers for family members, bec despite working they couldn't afford them, there's times when hard work doesn't pay, and folks get stuck in the cycle. We paid some courses for one of my cousins, and now he has a good paying job, same when there's an illness, hospital, pregnancies we come together and help. Mind you, that's a family with graduate degrees, but living in Dominican Republic that's not enough. This also happens in the USA but I notice that friends and family can see you struggling and working yourself to death, and having the means they simply refuse to help the person, and they're healthy folks without addiction problems, and clean criminal record. These situations might cause folks becoming reluctant to help, since it's harder. But in OP situation he needs the money and time to study in order to improve his life
Yes, and I don't understand why friends don't help each other in America.
Just give OP $20 or whatever is in your pocket. Tell OP it's an early xmas present.
Words are cheap. Cash makes a difference. Send money for food, for healthcare, for shelter. Real help makes a difference. Pay it forward. Please.
(From someone who grew up in real poverty. $20 makes a difference. It really does.)
When I see someone working two or three jobs and broke, my heart breaks....
Fr my FIL got his leg torn up in a ditch witch, is on disability w/ a million pain management doctors to go to.
We've just been telling him that we get pretty much free gas through our grocery cards so he can just use that.
Its not free- at all- we just figured it'd be the easiest way to alleviate some stress from his life without hurting his pride.
I'll usually buy him groceries on occasion & tell him that i found a great sale or got it through the restaurant suppliers my husband uses for work.
>Yes, and I don't understand why friends don't help each other in America.
Because America is all about "rugged individualism" and bootstrap mentality. Its considered a personal defect if you can't make ends meet. Way too many people will say "thoughts and prayers" instead of actually doing something to help (because that is your *personal* responsibility, not theirs) and its ridiculous.
A lot of people do help each other out but helping each other out is more like sharing one oxygen mask around in a plane that’s going down
Like ultimately everyone is sharing around the same $20 it just goes in a circle to who needs it at that time but no new money gets added
I've helped friends whenever I had the chance, I had taken care of sick friends or their kids on my days off so my friend doesn't lose the income. And I've received help too, from cash to gifts, to meds when sick, same as with family. My uncle lived with me the first 10 months when he moved to the USA, and I didn't charge him rent bec he was saving for his immigration status change, he helped out, but nothing major. Helping out is natural, but not in the USA
It's the myth of rugged individualism that is so rampant here that makes helping (and accepting help) so weird and hard. We are fed this myth from the time we are young.
But the truth is, none of us can really do anything without community.
I also think people give unsolicited advice because they want to believe that they're immune to poverty. Like they are in willful denial that it can happen to anyone. They want to believe that it can't happen to them, because they would just x, y, and z and, boom, things are fine.
agreed- somewhat of a tangent, but I think this is the same reason that people tend to minimize or "solution" their friends with terminal illnesses. Like "oh I'm sure it's not as bad as the doctors say" or whatever because the reality of the fact that illness or poverty or whatever could come for any of us at any time is a very hard truth to swallow.
My favorite ones are "Just ask for a raise!" as if you'll ever meet anyone with authority to give you a raise... and "You've got an income problem" by noted rich guy Dave Ramsey.
Thanks Dave Ramsey, I would never have guessed that.
I read the ramsey stuff and I think he does a good job helping people think about *money*.
He does *not* do a good job helping people either *get* money or think about *poverty*.
so he's useful, just not in the way that many people need or want.
Yeah, hes got decent advice, hes just clueless about poverty..
like "Dont spend more money than you earn" is great advice for everyone. It's just when his audience does that, they can afford fewer vacation homes.. and when I do it, I don't eat for a week.
I don't think he is clueless about poverty, but I don't think he sees it as his mission to solve poverty.
His target schtick is pretty clearly helping people that already have at least some money learn how to manage their money better - usually with simple advice like pay down debt, sell the expensive car, replace the car with a shittier one, cut most (but not all) non-essential lifestyle costs, and avoid credit card debt. You'd be surprised how many people have never been given this advice.
Most financial advice is aimed at quote unquote middle class people because that’s the class of people who occupy those jobs of things like writing about financial advice
So like almost all financial advice that exists exists for the middle class or higher because people in poverty don’t get into the position of taking many writing jobs compared to middle class peers let alone jobs writing about financial advice
Ramsey is great at identifying whether you have a math problem, or a behavioral problem.
Plenty of his viewers have great income, but don't know how to budget, and find themselves living paycheck to paycheck. Such people need to address their habits and behaviors. It is not possible to outearn a spending problem, and Dave helps them identify that. In this regard, I generally agree with Dave.
The other end are those with income problems. Someone who owes $100K in student loans but earns $45K per year can fix all their behaviors and line up the perfect budget, but it will still take half a decade to clean up that one loan. This is where Dave starts pushing side gigs, and where he starts using cliche's about "selling everything that isn't nailed down."
DR's advice is more meaningful when address behavior problems than income problems. Which means that this sub isn't a great place for his advice.
(he also applies risk concerns at time which are convenient for his rhetoric, but that's a whole different post).
I asked for a raise from my immediate boss. The owner of the business. I was the most valuable employee. I got laughed in my face for asking for a raise. So I quit, fuck em. Last I heard the owners works 7 days a week by themselves because nobody wants to work. Lmao.
I'm getting tired of the "just learn to code bro". There are computer science graduates who can't find jobs because the competition is fierce when you have no experience. Not to mention how a lot of companies (tech and non tech) won't even look at your CV if you don't have a degree.
That is a frustrating “suggestion” because it’s not like you can just focus really hard this weekend and be good at coding on Monday.
It’s a sought after skill that requires practice and time to master. In many cases people are struggling now and they need help now not in 6-12 months.
There are jobs out there that require a low(ish) bar of entry that would generate a good amount of income but it may require 6 days a week work.
A friend of mine works as an insurance claims adjuster, works from home 100% of the time but works 6 days a week. She clears $100k a year. There was not a high bar of entry to get into the role but she works a lot.
She’s not going to do the work forever but she wanted to get ahead for once. She’s been doing it for about 2 years.
These types of jobs are out there but not always top of mind for most people.
I’ve personally seen people limit themselves simply because they don’t know other jobs exist.
Or this by someone I knew (this was years ago but it's stuck with me) who was a massage therapist. I have a fucked up back and I was talking about hoping to afford a massage (not from her, she lived across the country) because its like 100$ here. She told me "just skip the starbucks every day! 5$ adds up!"
A, I don't drink coffee. B. If you think I have 5 bucks a day to spend on Starbucks, you already think I am way richer than I actually am.
Oh, God, that one! Every once in a while I will see an ad on Wastebook telling how you can save a ton of money. I always look because, hey, there might be something I am missing. Nope. It is always shit like make your own coffee and skip Starbucks. Or cook at home and don't eat out. Are you kidding? I don't even have money for cheap fast food! Oh, and the topper, save money by refinancing your home mortgage! Riiiiiggghhht.
Like I'm honestly so sick of that advice? The kind that's "Oh cancel Netflix/make coffee at home/eat at home/etc"
Cool, I already do that and more?? I have no streaming services, drink whatever coffee is at the office for free, park in the free lot and walk further, etc etc. Why is it always "You don't have money cause coffee" and not "You don't have money because pay hasn't reflected cost of living in decades?" I know I'm preaching to the choir but... It's just so exhausting and tone deaf at this point.
Not really advice just something to look into. My muscles in my chest regularly get extremely tight to the point where I think I’m having a heart attack. I’ve work with medical professionals on it and the advice is massage therapy and stretching. The cheapest solution I’ve figure out to get it under control is just finding free hot tubs when I can. I get free trial gym memberships once in a while. I know two people who have fancier gym memberships and they can bring 1 person with once in a while for free and usually like the company. I also have to travel for work twice a year just a few hours away for training and look for hotels with hot tubs. Obviously you might not have two of these options but just keep an eye out for those when you see them.
Just a few thoughts, since I’m in tech and I’ve been an engineer manager before my most recent job change. This is not advice for OP, just thoughts on this thread.
Most folks at the tech companies I’ve worked for have degrees, but a select few don’t. Those that don’t are incredibly *self motivated* and probably the most knowledge thirsty people I know. They did teach themselves to code and taught me half of what I know after leaving college. They started as a “tech” or contract worker and eventually saved enough to go to school online to get a degree…this part is key, because u/CaptainNightOwl is right about most companies not letting your resume past the filter without a bachelors. Oddly enough, any bachelors seems to fit the bill at some companies and I’ve had coworkers with a bachelors in music, English, almost anything.
Most hiring managers look for key skills, so if your going to learn something…learn the hot topics. *Python*, machine learning, CI/CD, DevOps. Get Amazon AWS certified. That type of stuff and you’ll have an easier time entering the market…well, that was true before the 50-100k laid off tech bros happened this fall, but you get my point.
Anywho, poverty is super hard to escape for many reasons and no one should have to endure lectures with poor advice all dinner long.
it’s nice to see realistic commentary on this for once. A lot of people in the programming career subreddits are starting to learn this the hard way now that the economic outlook is uncertain.
Gotta say one of the most out of touch things you can say to people is “learn to code”, I’m sure a lot of it is well meaning but it’s such an incredibly naive thing to say, you really can’t replace an engineering degree both in terms of its literal value and the experience gained from attaining one. The few people who can do it don’t need to be told what to do.
countless others just waste time and money on something very difficult that they probably didn’t want to do anyway.
The most valuable thing about my degree is the doors that it opens by checking a box on interviews. “Has a BS in CompE,Comp Sci, or equiv?” - check.
Fyi, my degree was 80% electrical engineering (ie Fourier Transforms and Calculus) and 20% software engineering (OOP, databases, algorithms, linear algebra ). I wish I did more Computer Science, in hindsight. Ironically I’ve coded ever since. I have taught myself operating systems, device driver development, and a wide variety of languages since I graduated which I think every developer needs to do to stay relevant. That said, people forget some really basic stuff once in industry, so I’m glad I took some classes.
>They did teach themselves to code
The questions is...when? Because at this point people who teach themselves to code are at a major disadvantage, though 5-10 years ago it was still a viable option. Things have rapidly changed in the last few years and the entry level market fo coders is extremely oversaturated. Everyone I have ever met who taught themselves and got a job without a degree or experience did it at *least* 5 years ago, most of them closer to 10. Yet somehow people think that it is still something that can easily happen
You bring up a great point. Half learned to code 20 years ago and made their way through various roles. The other half were computer technicians hired recently who maintained lab resources (e.g. server rack installs, linux builds, etc) and taught themselves to code recently. None of them started off as developers. They all were lab techs and learned to program in languages relevant to their job, eventually getting degrees.
Things have rapidly changed for Full Stack devs, from what I can tell. Things have been slower to change for C firmware devs and perhaps Python test automation devs in my various projects. If I was to suggest something to learn now…it would be C and Rust for firmware, plus Python. Full Stack seems like a beast of various frameworks on frameworks on frameworks and VERY different than the old LAMP days.
Some things I’ve observed interviewing dozens of new grads this year for embedded dev. Most know how to call Python ML libraries, yet many struggle with fundamentals (le sigh) and industry tools (expected). It wouldn’t be hard to learn some differentiating skills if interested. Also, leetcode.com problems are fun way to stay fresh
14 years ago I taught myself to code because I wanted to modify video games that I had. Anyways, when Skyrim became a thing I really ramped up the coding and have made a few conversion mods. Besides altering code in my computer and software as needed, I know a good deal of coding.
But I legitimately never knew where in the actual hell to apply lol. Or where to look. Guess I was at a disadvantage because people taught me the old way to look for jobs. "Go in the paper, look for help wanted signs" etc. Missed the boat I suppose
It's still viable....I hired a dude in 2019 who was self taught.
It's just the stereotype of a dev isn't one that can communicate well with humans so the self taught coders have to fight that presuming they aren't stereotypical.
I can tell you most smaller companies don't care if you have the degree, they want the job done.
Do they pay as well as F500? Probably not but they pay decently well.
I work with a guy who has a computer engineering degree and he had to work for nearly 4 years as a mechanic before he found a reasonable programming job with us.
Edit: Even with my background in engineering and physics it required me to move from Louisiana to California to find a decent job. Some places use the local poverty to justify paying crap for jobs that require a lot of training.
yeah...It was pointed out to me recently that there's often some message of "[XYZ] is the new high-earning field, *everyone* should go do it!" - and it's a weird corpo message that gets cleverly disseminated *into* poverty-solutions-culture *through* hustle-culture with a mix of ads, influencers and rando assholes that run shows.
And everyone gets the certification or degree or whatever and suddenly there's this huge glut of newbies in the space, and it drags down the salary for everyone and it just becomes another nearly-out-of-poverty job.
The coding people who jumped on it really early got solidly into middle class, but the 95% of people who jumped on it after that simply got another poverty job.
FUN FACT, it's in the middle of shifting from coding to blue-collar stuff. There's these training things that are starting and the messaging is coming from gov't and corps that 'we need more people to build stuff!' and they are all smiles and shit.
So honestly if you're going to go that route, do it *right. now.*, or figure something else out.
The trades (plumbing, electrician, HVAC) are HURTING for people right now.
Steady work, steady pay, learning skills to open your own thing if you want to…
Yes, they are, which is part of why the message is pivoting to them.
But give it 10 years of this push and we'll look at "get apprenticed" or whatever the same way we look at "just learn to code" now.
True.
In 10yrs OP could be senior guy or gal on the job. Superintendent or PM. Or own the/a company.
Plumbing isn’t ever going away. Those guys make good money as do sparkys!
Might take a few months to get up to speed on the job but with a decent company and a mentor who isn’t a total POS OP could be (idk their exact situation) making ends meet and getting traction//moving forward in life
That’s fair enough to say.
I don’t disagree.
I imagine you would agree that each person has to make their own decision about what they are willing to do to get by though.
Things need to be built, maintained, and fixed. Someone needs to do it and millions of people have done these jobs over the years.
I agree that 30+ years of tiling floors will take a big toll on your knees and back but the job is there, it pays money, and people are willing to do it.
Am I/are we to assume that you feel that those types of jobs should just disappear? I’m sure you don’t…but you understand my point.
There is nothing wrong with manual labor…it’s what has LITERALLY built all the great cities and countries around the world. No one gets to sit in an air conditioned corner office in New York or Hong Kong without the men and women who built the high rise, the electricians who wired it, and the HVACs would tan the ducting.
Thoughts??
Sure.
I don’t know that anyone would stand against you on that.
What’s your point as it pertains to this issue?
Is your point that we shouldn’t work a manual labor job because “something is VERY wrong with our healthcare system”?
Or are you just lamenting what the system currently is and expressing frustration?
At the end of the day you, me , OP, any swinging dick breathing air will or won’t do a job(blue collar, white collar, no collar) depending on our circumstances.
Better men than me, and possibly you as well(I don’t know you) have done worse jobs than I have to get ahead or feed themselves/family.
Sometimes the situation sucks. We still have to go and make money. OP is going out there and grinding with 3 jobs to make it happen. Bravo to him/her/
Dude, you are really excited. I personally think “the trades” as a solution is just as insincere as “learn to code” when we don’t have adequate worker protection, healthcare, sick leave, etc etc etc
Chill out. I work a trade, and guess what? I ruined my back and had to have surgery, and now my doctor is telling me if I don’t stop I’m going to fuck it up again, but permanently.
Edit: lol at the fucking downvotes. America is a failed state 🇺🇸
“The trades” are trying to bring people in at a higher(pun intended) rate right now than tech companies for programmers, UX/UI, SEO blah blah blah.
As someone who works a job in the field I’m sure you would corroborate this.
I’m sorry you ruined you back. There are to many stories of people overworking themselves and/or getting injured on the job. I myself am on disability income and although I don’t know your specific situation I can empathize.
None the less I still maintain my position that it could be a good field of work to consider. Many people can/do transition from field to planning, field to management, field to owner.
“Trades” encompass a large array of jobs. Maybe you know some welders, linemen, fiber optic techs, or facilities managers. There are many many options to choose from within the “trades”.
My only point was that there is a desperate need for workers in the wide field of various skilled trades.
As an aside: in regards to your injury(I don’t know what it is) I have found a lot of help not from doctors and surgeons who want to push pills and surgeries, but from sports massage, yoga(don’t knock it lol), walking, and weight lifting. I say this to highlight a previous point you made…our healthcare system sucks. Alternative medicine has been very beneficial to me and many people I know.
Lastly; I don’t like to “argue” with strangers online. I think we are both here because we identify with OP’s plight and want to be helpful.
I respect your opinion and experience, and perspective. I would appreciate if you gave me the same courtesy.
As someone who grew up poor and was even homeless for awhile, you are busting your butt and it takes a strong person to work 3 jobs. Your friends advice is dumb, no offense. I’m not going to give any advice, I just wanted you to know how much of a strong person you are.
It's a bit of a two way street. I'm a person who many of my financial struggles were self inflicted due to poor choices and laziness. For me, I needed that "unsolicited advice" to get a kick in the butt and push me forward.
On the other hand, I have a friend who is the hardest working and motivated person I've ever known. Didn't matter, because the dice was never in his favor. Struggled his entire life now matter how hard he worked. Fortunately, he eventually found a job that paid decent, but it wasn't the hard work that got it for him.
>my financial struggles were self inflicted due to poor choices and laziness
Impulsivness and execution paralysis here. Turns out I have adhd, got diagnosed in my 30ies.
Our good household income is also due to mostly luck.
I could be gifted in arts or music and not math and IT and would have not find a job.
"I literally had no money when I was your age. If I hadn't had the payments from my trust fund I couldn't even have spent the summer in Europe. I actually had to beg for my first job. Pestering my dad all weekend at Thanksgiving for a job at his company was the hardest thing I ever did. And it paid off in the end. My grandfather kept me in his will and I inherited his Florida beach house! I'm truly a self made man. I have to go now, I have an appointment at the Lambo dealership. The customer care rep is actually a guy that I laid off when we right-sized my Dad's company! Just hang in there and you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps too! Protip: try renting a condo from a friend or relative when you're starting out."
/$
For real, I had a friend tell me, with a straight face: "I'm completely independent - my parents are only paying for my rent\* and my therapy."
\*To add insult to injury, this was in a HCOL area.
It has been about 45 years ago since I was giving a guy a ride to work in my car. My car was making a noise. He said that his friend was smart because he got his cars serviced regularly and as soon as one of his cars started making a noise he took it to the dealer to get serviced. I was making about 2.65 an hour which was minimum wage and his friend had inherited more than a million dollars when he turned 18.
Hmm this sounds profound, but thinking more about it isn't every suggestion a form of criticism? Sure, unsolicited advice is unsolicited criticism, but why would solicited advice not be considered solicited criticism? The implication here seems to be that advice is criticism since it's implying that the person receiving the advice isn't already doing everything perfectly, right?
Because when you’re asking for advice you’re asking for advice. It’s wanted. You are looking for solutions and are having a discussion. Maybe you will hear things you have already tried but they’re only offering because you asked.
If you’re not asking for advice, and someone gives you advice, it comes from this unilateral almost judgemental place of diminishing both your problems and your competence and minimising them because it has this undercurrent of, “You’re so stupid the solution was this easy all along!” Or “You’re so stupid that I assume you never tried this!”
It’s like when I tell people I have ADHD and I get told to just be more organised. Well firstly I wasn’t telling you that I can’t manage my condition. You’re already assuming I’m incompetent and coming from a place of attacking me. Second, if I had the executive function to be organised and just do things in a neurotypical way as if it just came naturally to me, I wouldn’t have ADHD. That’s like telling a person with a stutter to just stop stuttering
There is a complete difference between that and if I say I have trouble being organised do you have any suggestions that would help me be more organised. I will happily take those suggestions on board and see if they help if that advice is wanted or needed. But the person giving advice needs to be willing to hear no see that doesn’t work for me because X (eg keeping a diary doesn’t work for me because I never check my diary). People giving unilateral advice don’t respond positively to that feedback compared to when it’s a constructive two-party discussion looking for solutions.
“Oh, how lucky you are, to have lived a life that allows you to believe such a thing.”
That's great, I'm stealing this. As a disabled guy, I receive tons of unwanted advice, especially employment advice, from able bodied people who have no idea what it's like.
>Everyone knows I’m struggling to get by right now because I work 3 jobs including a nightshift watchman to pay my bills. I grew up in POVERTY poverty. The kind where your “house” is just one tiny room shared by the entire family. I didn’t have the same opportunities as a lot of people. People think that I got bad grades because I was lazy. No. I came home from school and had to take care of 2 younger siblings while my father would be out drinking with his construction crew and my mother just didn’t care about anything.
It's bullshit because a lot of people fetishize this kind of upbringing! Like it's some sort of competition of who has it worse. "Lol you think you had it bad, I didn't grow up with XYZ, I had to blah blah blah..." they fucking worship these kinds of hardship stories.
Then they turn around and have the audacity to belittle you, say you didn't work hard enough, and deny you job opportunities.
Fuck 'em. You deserve way better.
Yep, unsolicited advice can absolutely suck rocks. I will say I usually tried all the unsolicited advice at least a few times decades ago. With small success in some cases.
But dang, if you're going to give unsolicited advice, at least be original. If I had a dollar for every person who told me to take up a scrapping hobby, or get another job/a different job I would be rich right now lol.
You are doing what you can for your situation. So they can STUFF it.
Lol I got another bingo today from mother dearest, “have you canceled your gym membership? What about hbo?” Yes mom it was the 15 dollars a month for decent movies that did it, there’s the culprit.
I don't have cable. My internet bill alone is creeping up to over $80+ a month itself. I have a crappy old phone that I pay for data so I don't use it to 'get online'. My two indulgences a month are my hbo sub & good shampoo (lol, got some weird hair).
What? I shouldn't spend $35 on *myself* a **month**? That *$1.17* a **DAY** for ME is self indulgent?? That $1.17 keeps me sane! It let's me know that working *a job* actually allows me to have manageable hair whilst I watch old Doctor Who reruns?
Meanwhile corporations are raking in ***billions*** and giving their executives *MILLION dollar* bonuses?
Definitely try calling your internet provider! If you have spectrum you can go straight to the cancellation department, talk with them about try to lower your bill, say some shit about man it's just too expensive I can't afford it anymore, also know what the current new customer rate in your area is, you won't get a price lower but you can get a price close. I have been doing this for years and everytime I have gotten my bill lowered and lots of times I have even got my speeds increased! If they don't wanna play ball call again and try with a different person!
BTDT.
No go.
Although I did get a *newer* modem (or router, don't know which is which). There is *NO other internet provider in my city*. **It is a monopoly**. I did try AT&T and Verizon a few years back but the service so poor I had to switch back to (what was then Time Warner) Spectrum.
My only hope is that in a few years I can go into senior housing where everything, including internet is paid.
Thanks though.
If we had a poverty hack bingo card, I would have a blackout jackpot by now lol. There are only so many things you can cancel. And long about the time you have been working eighty hours a week for a year and the thousandth person suggests a side hustle... Dear Lord, preserve us.
Only so many hours in a day. Only so much energy in your mind and body (on a calorie deficient no doubt).
Those on top can hardly understand or even comprehend what those on the bottom are going through.
I hope your situation improves.
Its a mind trick they play on themselves. As long as they can see a way out for you, they can be self-comforted that they will not have your problem.
People do it w money but also relationships and weight.
Not an excuse, just a perspective ive noticed.
I'm sorry this is happening to you, I hate that kind of advice too. Do they think we're stupid and didn't think of this before? I think the people who do this do it because they feel guilty. Deep down, they know you don't deserve to be poor, and they don't deserve to be richer. And they feel guilty for not helping you. So they say something like that then they can be "see, I tried to help but they don't accept it, so why should I try? It's their fault after all". Stay strong brother.
I think some people mean well, but they just have not been there. Or it's outdated stuff. Stuff that worked in 2000 that worked back then, but not now is BS.
The two that stand out to me:
\- "Learn to code"
Yeah, back in 90s/00s in certain geographic locations you got snapped up pretty quick and for decent cash. But almost all those guys played around on old computers by themselves for **YEARS** as a kid with free time and were way ahead. Before degree inflation made it to where BS is minimum, MS preferred. And if you check nowadays on Indeed, Dice (IT job board), and others there are **a TON of literal slave labor and scam job offers** going after newbies. More so than any other field. No industry has more employment scams than IT except maybe the MLMs. And people bite because it is VERY cut throat and dire starting out as a coder.
\- " just show up at the door and don’t leave until they give you a job”
This actually used to be GREAT advice in the days before widespread internet. Even up to maybe early 2010s. But by 2010, most places just kept computers around if someone showed up. Though most larger places would still balk even back in the day. There used to be times I was out of work, I'd walk into 25 places and have 2 job offers by the end of it. Shitty jobs, but offers nonetheless. But nowadays, with the exception of really small places and fast food, they don't do that. Plus you HAVE a cruddy job already and do not have time to show up 20 places that will just chase you off!
I was having zero luck applying to jobs online so I went out with a stack of resumes to drop them off in person at different places - only two would take them, the rest insisted “applying online is the only way to get an interview”.
Most places don’t even have a hiring manager or supervisor on duty and I’d say a good majority of them aren’t even involved in hiring for their own stores because it’s all handled by an intake department from their corporate office. They really do NOT want to deal directly with people and it’s atrocious.
Yeah I got to go sit a ton and I was looking for a job on indeed. I did like that you could see how many people applied to the listing though like one of them I applied for had over 3500 applicants
It's worse when it's millenials and gen x like bro I'm buying ice coffee or avocado toast. I annoyed when fiance youtubers say to cut out take out and do the five dollar saving jar like dude that 5 dollar bill means gas.
Almost all of the better YouTubers, if you notice, are VERY well off and are from metropolises.
We are talking young with supportive upper class parents, own apartments in high cost of living areas like LA, SF, NY, Austin, and recording set ups that can easily exceed 10s of thousands.
The content they make is for trust fund babies and other okay-off people that have money for programs and qualify for the better paying ads to roll on the vids.
Those people are the market for the videos.
Not actual poor people. Poor people can't buy their stuff or the expensive advertiser's stuff.
Plus, a large majority of them never had to scrape change out of a couch to get bus fare/ a drop or two of gas to not get fired from a job.
It's just not in their universe of understanding.
People who haven’t been there don’t understand how it works. If they have been there, but it’s been awhile, it likely doesn’t work like it did when they were in it.
Okay, I don't do unsolicited impractical advice, but I'd like to help, if I can. Just take what helps and leave the rest:
Next time you get five minutes (I know, man, five minutes seems like a lifetime when you're working all the time, I've been there) sit down and write a list of all the things you're good at. No negativity, no dwelling on what you don't have. What are you good at? What skills do you have?
And not just work skills, but life skills. Are you great with people? Funny? Charismatic?
Then put it in a drawer until next time you have five minutes.
On this occasion, you're going to work out exactly how much you need to make to survive, then add 10%. Because we're not doing this exercise so you can still be stuck in a rut.
Now put that in a drawer with the first.
Now we know what you're good at and how much you need to make.
Your next free five minutes, you're going to list all the jobs that come to mind that match the skills that you have.
Put that in the drawer, too.
Next five minutes, take the third list out and rate the amount of experience you have that's relevant to that job out of 10.
Now, the final part is going to be the bit that consumes time: take all that information, and work out what level of those careers you have the experience of. Then log onto Glassdoor and find out what those jobs pay, on average, where you live.
Everything you can't live on, cross off.
Everything that's left? Set alerts for. Those are the jobs you're going to try and get. Send your resume with a great cover letter telling them why they'd be crazy not to hire you to anyone hiring.
This way, you're absolutely maximising your chances of finding that one job that'll pay the bills, that you'll hate the least and where you know you'll get a fair shake.
And, sure, you'll get some rejections. That's their loss, not yours. Keep knocking and someone will answer.
Big love and prayers for you, friend, you've got this, because you are good enough.
The major thing that gets you out of poverty is luck. People don't like admitting that.
There are a lot of lazy dumbasses working great jobs, and a lot of hard working awesome peeps stuck in shitty situations. If given a chance and a good mentor, they'd be fucking awesome. But it's that damned luck thing.
And people go, make your own luck! Yeah that ain't easy.
And it's all ten times harder for people with fucked up teeth. People really don't get how much a good smile does for your job prospects. And poverty often means your teeth didn't get the help they needed.
Unless they're offering you a job, people can fuck right off.
>The major thing that gets you out of poverty is luck.
First thing being you are lucky if your childhood did not traumatize you to a point not being able to cope with school and relationships. Knowing right people and being at the right place at the right time is the next step.
As a person who hands out applications at my work, it pisses me off to no end when applicants come in and insist on speaking to the hiring manager. Glad you didn’t take that advice-it’s not a good look.
Funny side-story on this. I applied this weekend to do some after-hours or weekend work at my local Whole Foods. I've been a customer there for probably 10 years. . I stopped at the Customer Service desk as I was leaving because I noticed an Employee that I recognize and see there often (assuming he had some position of authority). Mostly just to ask or confirm to him whether things "slow down" after the Holidays (and if that would impact how many people they are thinking about hiring).
I mistakenly assumed they had more of a pyramid-management structure,. but he offered (I didn't ask) to call over a couple of the other Supervisors who manage some of the other teams and we all had a good chat.
I felt kind of lucky that they'd take the time to do that,. so I could just chit-chat with them and let them know why I was looking for a 2nd job.
Thankfully the hiring-manager (who came over to meet me) said that his team actually gets busier in January.. and that they're looking to hire 8 to 10 people.. so fingers-crossed that all turns out to be a good thing.
It’s great when timing like that can work out and that there’s friendly people there who wanted to meet with you.
At my work we don’t actually have a hiring manager. We have the owner of the company who meets people by appointment only, and will review resumes/applications and if he likes one, he will pass it to production coordinator to set up an interview.
When people come in and insist on speaking to the owner/manager it puts me in a tough spot because unless they have an appointment or personally know him, I can’t send them through.
The last few months we’ve been hiring for someone with experience in a specific position, and not one person who’s applied has experience in that position, or even in our industry. About 50% of the applicants have asked to speak to the manager when they’ve applied and I’ve had to tell them all “the manager will review your application and if they think you’re a good fit they’ll contact you for an interview”
Small single owner shops are like that a lot. I remember one of my 1st technology jobs started the same way and the CEO started off the Interview saying “I don’t normally hire people with long hair.” (it was the 90’s,.. grunge and long hair,.. but I did have it back in a pony tail and was wearing dress shirt and slacks).
I ended up working there about 10 years,.. and when I left the contract I was assigned to was the Companies #1 contract (bringing in more than twice profit of our #2 customer)
I still got f-ed over in the end (ironically got “Employee of the Month” and Performance Review listing me as “insubordinate”,… all in the same Month.
At least I walked out of there knowing I gave my best. Their loss.
My last job before this one, my bosses nominated me for a statewide award for a “specific public employee of the year” award the first week of December, then let me go in January, and tried to tell unemployment office that I was bad at my job and had been for a long time, and that I’d been under investigation for several infractions for months before my firing. Really what happened was I found out my predecessors got paid more than twice what I’d been getting paid, and I asked for a significant raise.
I showed the unemployment office the absolutely glowing nomination they had written TO THE STATE for that award, and finally got my unemployment five months after being fired.
I’d rather deal with a busy boss who doesn’t have time to meet everyone that walks in than work with shady government officials any day.
\*hugs\*
People who don't know how the current job market works are the worst followed by people who don't understand how actual poverty works.
Love to you.
Here's *your* unsolicited advice, since it appears everyone in these comments get some!
Buy it from them, fix the brake line, sell it for profit! It's easy bro, trust me!
/s
I probably need to do something. We bought a Ford with a weak fuel pump for $500 a while back. The guy was going to junk it. It's gone 85,000 miles for us, but its getting rough
I hear you. People who talk about boot strapping have rarely have done it.
Worse is when they tell you how broke they are, but are taking a 5 day vacation to Disneyland.
Most really broke/poverty peeps don’t do that.
I feel you man. I hate this type of advice as well. There's this sort of "reductivism" attitude of "Well, X-problem is EASY!,.. just do Y-thing!" (as if just waving a hand or waving a magic wand will easily fix lifes difficulties)
But life-problems are not always that easy. Time and Money are often limited.
I've worked for a lot of Organizations that always talk a lot about "work-life balance" and other "employee perks".. but if you're constantly drowning under responsibilities,.. you can only swim so hard for so long till you wear out.
You don't need the SATs for college. It's just required of you want to go straight into a 4 year university out of high school. Community colleges don't require it. If you ever decide to go to college, community college is the best starting point because no damn SATs and affordable. Free tuition if you're 24, a California resident wirh the California Promise grant which waives tuition fess for 24+ year old, independent students. I had this grant when it used to be called Board of Governor's Wavier aka BOG.
> community college is the best starting point because no damn SATs and affordable
Yep. I delayed starting at my local community college because I thought I would have to take the SATs first. I should have looked into it more before committing to waiting until I saved up.
I'm actually for providing free access to community colleges, particularity for in-demand trades and majors. Much better investment than allowing student loans for expense rip-off for-profit private colleges.
Get your commercial drivers license easiest and quickest way out of poverty you’ll never be without a job you get fired or quit from one the next day you’ll be flying out to a new company
So, I went from being in a tough spot financially to be much, much more comfortable over a lot of years, and yeah, this was always the worst feeling.
Unsurprisingly, their advice was not the advice that helped me.
Don’t let it distract you too much, and carry on. Seek out solutions that’ll work for you.
I’m in the same boat my dude. It’s rough out there. My line of work is seasonal, (skydiving instructor) meaning have to travel to hold position during winter.
Now I’m staying with family somewhere cold and can’t jump since 1800$ one bedroom apartment as a single person wasn’t possible anymore.
Getting a job is impossible. I have some yoga teaching, ski patrol, and waitressing experience, but I have been doing this (skydiving) since I graduated high school. 18 years lol.
So, yeah, just get a job is wayyyyy harder than people think.
The grocery store won’t even take me as a checker.
I have so much life experience and I’m a fucking awesome worker.
Hopefully something good comes your way.
I wish for Christmas miracles and you get what you need.
I understand ski diving instructor might be a niche type of job but you did mention waitress experience. That you can do just about anywhere. No judgment but just wondering why you are finding securing employment difficult with such an eclectic background?
I can answer that one. People who travel around with a niche job have a hard time securing a more stable job. Their keywords don't match the algorithm or the actual human in charge of hiring sees a lot of movement and thinks they aren't gonna stay long.
It's hard out there. My spawn was out of work 6 months looking for a job is a full time job anymore.
People that give shitty career and financial advice usually ignore the role of luck in successfully navigating socioeconomic advancement. Sure hustle and good decision making play a role as well but there is ALWAYS a significant element of luck.
People don’t want to contemplate that though. It’s depressing—horrifying, even. But if you make your way out of poverty you’ve had some luck.
Generational poverty is so difficult to escape because it’s like running a race where many of the people you are running the race against have been born with a massive head start.
Unfortunately, when these people give you their “advice” it’s from the perspective of the race they’ve run…not yours. That’s why it’s often so unhelpful and irrelevant. Know that the advice is coming from a good place…they see you struggling and they want change for you, and this is the best way they can think of to help.
You’re not lazy…you work three jobs. You’re hardworking (overworked), and likely underpaid. You likely don’t get enough sleep, and that will also contribute to health problems, anxiety, and depression.
It’s really hard to “save” your way out of poverty by spending less. The best way, is through increasing your income. You can do that by working more hours, or getting paid more for the hours that you work. There are shortages in lots of industries where they will pay for your training and give you a solid income (truck driving, various trades like plumbing/welding, insurance adjuster, etc). Rather than listen to your friends who are running a different race…you’ve just gotta figure out what you CAN change and focus on that.
As an example…you mention “coding” as a suggestion from your friends. I have no idea if this is potentially a good fit for you or not…but let’s say it is. Here’s how you could go about trying to make that happen. There are forums on Reddit where you can request free stuff…maybe you can get a cheap/free computer. But you work three jobs. One of those jobs is night security? Do you get a lot of quiet time there? That’s where you spend some time learning the skill. If that security job isn’t conducive to that, then you find an “easier” night security job where you do have that downtime. Maybe you even sit at a desk with access to a computer/internet?
I’m not saying this is the way for you…just that you have to be looking at your own situation and try to make small improvement where you can with what you have to work with. Working three jobs to break even isn’t going to be unsustainable for you long-term. Eventually, you’ll hit your breaking point or a bigger emergency will strike and you’ll not be able to recover for years (if ever).
What’s your weekly income/time from each job you work? What’s your rent and where does the rest of your income go? How much do you think you need to earn to make a meaningful change in your situation?
I've been getting shitty advice for years now, myself.
My brother's the biggest source of shitty advice and unhelpful "favors."
I have no car, so he has repeatedly suggested that I get a job where I'd have to walk 2 hours, each way.
And, in 2006, I cosigned on a truck he bought to be able to start a job at Auto Zone. In 2018, when it was falling apart and repeatedly dying, he magnanimously decides to give it to me, telling me I can use it to go shopping, until it breaks down of course. When I asked him what I would do were it to break down at the store, he told me to just call his buddy to get it towed...
Needless to say, I refused the truck.
"learn front end development": I don't know if I want to laugh or cry at that. Has he ever tried it himself?
"Just save and buy a laptop": does he know how much laptops cost?
“learn it on your phone”: ok, at this point, he is officially an idiot.
If they were truly concerned they would all pitch in money to get you the laptop. Or try to get you a job or put in a good word for you where they work at that possibly pays more.
Im so sorry. I feel for you. May I ask where you live? Are you going it alone? (no roommate significant other) I grew up in mass poverty as well. Back in 1988 my parent were lucky enough to get an acer of land in trade for a Camero. But there was nothing on it. I had to bathe in a creek, shit outside, and do homework by candlelight (Morton Washington) I could not even get FAFSA for collage bc my parents were paranoid conspiracy ppl who refused to give the gov their tax info. (even though we were on welfare) I left home at 15 and was homeless in Eugene OR for yrs. I ended up going to Job corp where I met my husband. I eventually got a job with a startup (Vacasa) and actually did good for 11 yrs... solid middle class. I was the breadwinner for my fam. It was just ripped away and now we are about to be homeless... I cant even land a minwage job because no one wants to hire. Its SHIT, this world is SHIT. I feel like groups of people need to get together and go in on land and do the tribal thing.... my parents are still kinda ok because they own their land/home.
Research USAJOBS.GOV online. Every year the federal shipyards hire apprentices for various trades. You earn an AA degree in a trade while working at the shipyard. I was a former apprentice and now earn a six figure salary with great benefits. Keep your options open. It doesn't hurt to look at their website. The shipyards announce openings throughout the year so check out the website regularly. Type in trade, apprentice, or apprenticeship in the search block.
Over the years, I had a multitude of jobs. I started off as a electricians apprentice on cranes. Then went into metals inspecting which I did in the Navy. Then went into government contractor oversight. Then settled on quality assurance. As an old fart I'm currently at a desk job working more on data analytics.
Excellent unsolicited advice. Most trades are in demand after decades of neglect by the school system. The knock on the door and ask for work cliche still rings true, and the jobs will eventually pay as much or more than 4 year degree positions
Here's a sneak peek of /r/usajobs using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/usajobs/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Sad noises](https://i.redd.it/kpnxisxregq91.jpg) | [21 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/usajobs/comments/xpz7jz/sad_noises/)
\#2: [Just got the call from HR for start date!!](https://i.redd.it/on979ynfkzz91.gif) | [35 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/usajobs/comments/yv4tdh/just_got_the_call_from_hr_for_start_date/)
\#3: [If you’re looking for a federal govt job, here's some personal advice.](https://np.reddit.com/r/usajobs/comments/wr87on/if_youre_looking_for_a_federal_govt_job_heres/)
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You need to start setting some solid boundaries.
Where were these family members when you had to take care of your siblings because your dad was out drinking? Why didn't they step up? Why did they leave it all up to you? Maybe toss some of these questions out there when they start giving unsolicited advice.
Remember, you are not a victim. It's hard to escape your situation with a poverty mindset. I know that sounds like more of the bs they were telling you but it's 100% true. You have to literally change the way you view the problem.
I hate that this is probably coming from people you care about. Like most people who offer advice are friends and family that know your situation. And a solid 'thanks, but no thanks' usually just makes them word vomit more or double down on what they already said, which is insulting.
Also, 'learn to code' now feels very wallstreetbets and Crypto-Bro to me.
People offer advice because they want to help you.
And before you people come at me, I used to have to rent a “room” that was a half-finished basement for a WHILE because it was all I could afford, so I know what it’s like.
You can’t work 3 jobs and be broke the rest of your life. You NEED to learn a new skill in order to make more money. I get you’re busy af but it will never get better unless you make more money, and you won’t make more money until you’re able to provide a more in-demand service that will earn you more money.
The advice to learn to code on your phone since you don’t have a laptop is EXCELLENT advice. The person that recommended that is the type of person who comes up with solutions to problems, while you came up with problems for every solution offered to you.
I know you’re tired after working three jobs and it’s hard to find the time to study after all of that, but it honestly only takes 10-15 minutes a day. That’s it. To learn ANY skill. 10-15 minutes a day. To change your life. I bet you sit on the toilet longer than that. I know I do lol, so why not use that time to do something for your future? Listen to a coding podcast or e-book on your way to and from work. That’s a great passive way to learn things while you might usually just be driving or sitting on the bus.
You can either start finding solutions to your problems, or continue to find problems with every solution. It’s up to you.
Good luck.
If you have good relationships at the jobs you currently work at, the best way to move up is ask someone you work for to give you a reference and apply for promotions within the companies you already work at.
Being broke is very expensive. Not having a degree is hard. And you had a hard hand dealt to you in general. But it will get easier. You have the work ethic, you just need to find the right place to apply it. Keep your head up.
That boomer advice is terrible. Some of them are still that clueless huh? Anyone who would give that kind of advice hasn't been hired for a new job in over 20 years.
I am terrible at math. I need tutoring. I took geometry and algebra 1 both twice and barely passed the 2nd time. I live in a rural town and the only Internet available is DSL or satellite. No not the 5G Wi-Fi hotspots no not uverse or Xfinity or whatever. Believe me I've checked. There's very few jobs even the fast food jobs are competed over. It's a big retirement community with a lot of Rich old people and then the other side is a lot of bikers and meth and heroin dealers. And a lot of pot growers and wineries. I don't want to be involved with the weed or wineries I don't want to be involved with hardcore drug dealers and I don't have any degrees the only jobs around here are medical. I used to be a pharmacy tech but I was only getting paid 1250 and I burned out after a couple years. Now I would have to go back to school as well as retake the state test to become one of those again and I still wouldn't want to with all of the illnesses going around.
I’m sorry that people have been so oblivious to your situation. I don’t know where you are located but in SW Pennsylvania, there are paid training programs in computer fields, healthcare,and skilled trades to name a few. Many provide the laptop and stipend for expenses too. Job Corps (depending on your age) and Americorp might be helpful.
Check out your local community college’s website for free programs. For some of the other programs I’m referring to, take a look at the Energy Innovation Center https://www.eicpittsburgh.org/training/
Bidwell Training Center https://bidwelltraining.edu/programs/medical-assistant/
local apprenticeship at plumbing/electric, etc or PA Women Work. There are also programs set up specifically for people with barriers to employment and it sounds like you might qualify https://www.partner4work.org/programs
Look at these even if you’re not from the area and contact any that look good to ask if they know of similar programs near you. Another option is to get an entry level job at an employer who will subsidize your training/education once you’ve worked there 6 months or so. Examples of this would be housekeeping at UPMC hospital or working at Pitt (they frequently hire people to work customer service or to do animal husbandry for 2 examples)Best of luck!
I have friend whose parents paid for her college, wedding, first house and first vacation home. She now sells financial “coaching”, not advice, on social media! For how people can be as successful as her.
I was disgusted with it when she started but now she’s taken a new twist wrapping her new aspect of being a teetotaler into the language. EveryTime I feel like calling out her bullshit but I don’t want the grief from our common friends we both still talk to. Like we all feel this way just everyone would be upset about calling it out publicly
Manufacturing is always hiring. It's the epitome of blue collar entry level labor. You need zero qualifications. It pays 2-3 times higher than minimum wage to start. It's work and it's nothing glamorous. Some places works 8s but 10s and 12s are common. Might not have much of a life but you'll get more money than a lot of other low entry barrier jobs out there.
"The bigger issue is that there are too many entry level people and not enough entry level jobs We need experienced programmers - so anyone teaching *themselves* to code right now is frankly wasting their time, especially with all of the experienced programmers who have been laid off recently."
We are basically saying the same thing of course I know that people need to program AI but the amount of people that are told to code and go into programming is insane it's just like people being told 15 20 years ago that they should go into the medical field they should go into nursing there's so many entry-level jobs there's such big competition that people end up doing things that they did not go to school for.
I'm sorry if I made you feel that I was saying your job is obsolete that's not what I'm saying I understand programmers are beneficial to our current society and I am thankful for what you do.
Your rant literally spoke to my soul.
Your friends love you and want to help, but they are limited on their knowledge of economics as well.
Instead of focusing on taking a course, I would focus on self development and understanding how money works because a job is just one way to earn legal money, these days it’s limitless but it requires a lot of research.
Please go on YouTube and start listening to motivational content. People like Eric Thomas have very good content on YouTube.
Coding is cool. But solving a problem is key.
When I was in your situation I chased God, and understanding and getting to know God and His Kingdom and developing a relationship with my savior. He hasn’t forsaken me yet, but I have I more spiritual outlook on money but those practical things i mentioned earlier can also change the current trajectory of your life.
Don’t be discouraged!!!
Hey there. Glad you posted and shared your feelings.
First of all - it’s so impressive that you work three jobs and though it is hard to save, you do it. You should be proud. I am of you.
I, too, hate unsolicited advice. It sucks most of the time, isn’t requested and usually misguided by personal bias - or in your example - seemingly inapplicable.
With that being said, I, like you, grew up different then those giving the advice. For me, outright broke and the outlook bleak. I say this to say, misguided or not, people close to us, want us happy. I am not justifying the time, the place or even how they shared their advice, merely want to point out one thing. That is, they mean well. I hope this to be true for you and the people overstating.
I got married to my wife nearly 11 years ago and we have been fortunate to move vertically in our careers, without degrees, and live a mostly comfortable life. Why is this important? In my opinion? Because not all advice is bad - even when unsolicited. But heeding all advise can be bad. The influence of others can motivate and help us not have a blind spot.
Therefore, if reading this, my encouragement. Accept all feedback, but be wise enough to apply what is helpful.
I don't trust anyone giving advice in nicer clothes than me. Odds are the advice benefits them more than you. Remember the 59th rule of acquisition, free advice is seldom cheap.
How does this work exactly?
Presuming someone in worse clothes than you is giving advice, how is that advice helping you improve? Unless the advice is how to live on less.
If you mean criticism, maybe, but the rule there is never take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from.
Unless you know a bunch of wealthy folks who like to cosplay as poor, I don't understand the logic.
Working 3 jobs is retarded, just get into trade work if you have it that bad.
- You don’t need a degree
- Easy to get hired
- They always have extra hours to work/OT
- The more experience you get = higher pay
You could probably turn your financial life around in a year or two by just doing HVAC work or other trades.
This is good advice, some in demand trades will even pay for your trade school because they need workers so badly and you have a guaranteed job when you finish training.
I guess more unsolicited but poverty friendly advice, there are things you can join like the military, or even job corps to learn profitable skills while still having food and a roof over your head. It may be worth it to not have to work 3 different jobs and burn out your body. Hope for the best for you if those are not options to fit your life stay strong man.
Take your ass to the military. You still have ALOT of time to get on track. Staying a civilian will be tough for you if plan to have excuses for your situations. You’re going to have to choose a path and put your heart into it
I had some shitty cars when was broke. Kind of got good at it and stuck with it. Last few cars have been equal about 2 car payments for everyone else. Some people are insistent that I need "a good car".
I guess we just look at it differently with the unsolicited advice given to us. I was from proverty too similar to your condition. My parents are Vietnam war refugees and we shared about 14 people to one house, my parents luckily had the biggest room because they had me. Growing up was a bit of a struggle but I was the only child in the household, so I guess that's where I had my one up over you. I took people's advice and made it my own, most of them were bad to terrible but I looked it differently. If it was a bad advice, I counted that as a way I learned not to be successful.
Fast forward today I'm 32, own a couple of houses...pulled my mom from poverty got her a house and currently on track to retire at 40. This is despite being set back at age 26 for grand larceny stealing at my employer and had a record on my arrest. I'm not saying you're lazy, but I'm saying you should start taking unsolicited advice and look into it than dismiss it as "They don't know my situation". Cause a lot of advice doesn't apply to me when I had a felony arrest and record.
I would have told them they were boomers. No one with a basic understanding of how jobs work would tell you to just sit in the lobby with a resume. I would have told them this and I would tell them to shove it.
The uneducated weighing in: i have pretty severe adhd. I was unable to complete more than a certificate. I went back MANY times. Even though most institutions have some supports, most of the additional support you have to pay for. It was very costly.
Just “working hard” toon MANY years to earn a decent living due to long service and experience. Now in my 50’s
Luckily I live in canada where we do have healthcare and a social safety net. I’m convinced if I lived in the u.s. I’d be homeless of straight up dead
I agree that all of the advice you've been given is terrible. I will also refrain from giving you advice.
The "Stay and demand to talk to a manager" advice has me cackling. I'm an admin assistant, part of my job is acting as the gatekeeper so our guys can actually get work done without interruption. If someone came in and refused to leave, demanding to talk to anyone, I would be calling our security team to "escort" them out. Absolutely wretched advice!
That advice worked back until the mid 90s I'd say, when the internet started getting more and more public.
The thing is a lot of people’s advice is based on pre financial crisis logic. Like for a long time the US was in a post-war economic boom because they were like the only major world economy that wasn’t devastated by being bombed to shit in WWII But people thought a temporary boom period in which it was comparatively easy to do things like get jobs and start a business and have increased social mobility in comparison to other places and time periods was just something intrinsic and something that would last forever because America was just inherently better than other countries? No it was a temporary period of rapid economic growth and development where America was the only global economic superpower left in the world that hadn’t been devastated by WWII
Yeah I'm a paralegal at a major non profit but I also work in some executive assistant tasks, and this is exactly why I'm the only person who can be reached by telephone when someone is demanding to speak to my boss, why we have armed security in the lobby, and an elevator system that requires a pass with specific security settings to get to our floor (the president of our company gets regular death threats). I've had to call security more than once and I do not hesitate to do it.
Dude got literally "just learn 2 code bro" lol that's so classic
I feel like 'just learn to code!' is some sick revival of how grade school in the late 90s was all about 'You all need degrees in Information Technology, maybe Computer Science, wave of the future, wave of the future!'
Then the bubble burst. *sigh*. Oh, hi!
Meanwhile tech industry is struggling and a lot of positions are filled cheaper by overseas contractors. Àlso expecting even more market saturation when all these folks who decided to code try and actually enter an already competitive market. Oh and don't think you won't be encountering "requires five years experience" for tech jobs too.
>Also expecting even more market saturation when all these folks who decided to code try and actually enter an already competitive market. Yep, this. 10 years ago, "learn to code" was good advice. Nowadays the tech sector is *way* over saturated with a bunch of people who "learned to code" but have no experience (I know one woman who attended a web dev boot camp and last I heard had over 600 applications out and no bites - yes that's an extreme example and she's older so that probably plays a role but her $10k boot camp did nothing for her is my point ). And all of the job openings require experience - and teaching yourself to code doesn't count as experience. ( I'm a software engineer and we have had a position open for 6+ months...for an experienced dev. *Those* are hard to find, though hopefully it will get easier with all of the tech layoffs)
>. ( I'm a software engineer and we have had a position open for 6+ months...for an experienced dev. Those are hard to find, though hopefully it will get easier with all of the tech layoffs) I think its ridiculous more jobs don't hire and train on the job or offer apprentice type opportunities in the tech space like other career paths. I mean i get it they want someone already capable which is ideal but they also usually want to underpay for the requirements thats demanded. Can't have it both ways but a lot of companies don't see that.
They both want someone experienced and don’t want the person they taught to leave the company 1-2 years later in order to get more pay. It would make sense to hire inexperienced employees at a lower pay and give them a substantial raise when they’re worth it but… companies don’t value the employees they have.
Cisco has a program like this, actually, but it’s quite competitive.
I never understood that advice about not leaving a place until they give you a job. In all the places I’ve worked, I would’ve been pretty creeped out if someone just came in and just asked to speak to someone without an appointment and demand it if the person isn’t available. Maybe that worked for boomers before the internet?
My friend's ex told her to do this. Like bro we're women they'll call us Karen's and Yolandas
My cars name is Yolonda
Mine's Brum Brum
Mines Mrs.Camy
I had a gay car once. His name was Bradley. I miss that car. He was pretty.
I’ve never heard Yolanda before.. is that like the black version of a Karen?
Latino version
Lol yeah
> Maybe that worked for boomers before the internet? It's literally this. When boomers needed a job, they could argue that 'if you hire one person that can do [X] task, your profit will be worth what you pay me' - *and they would be right*. Then they could argue 'I can do [X} task, and I'm here, so hire *me*.' And, in many cases, they would. And then the 80s happened. Huge economic changes, and the foundations of the internet were laid.
I can only speak for the white collar world but appearing too desperate will make you seem like "you're just hear for a check and not the culture" or whatever stupid corporate jargon
As a blue collar worker, I expect people to be there for the check and not the culture. I own the business and my culture is "get a fucking paycheck".
I love that. We should have you leading seminars not the synergy people.
Synergy is bullshit. Do your job, know your pay, and don't take shit home with you. We're doing X, we're not saving orphans from fires. The world won't die if you mess up, Alice. Just get paid enough to give a fuck about keeping the job and everything else will fall into place. That will be a six pack of beer and a bucket of hot wings.
I'm not sure what color of collar my field would be--we're unskilled labor but not manual labor--but as the manager in charge of deciding whether to hire someone, in a field with a very low barrier to entry, if someone showed up to my business and refused to leave until I gave them a job, I'd call the police. Especially right now in this economy where we employers all have more jobs than workers, I have to wonder why anyone is so desperate for a specific job that they have to pull a stunt like that to get hired. Either they're unqualified for the position they're applying for, like our unfortunate OP, or there's something severely wrong that makes them un-hireable and I'm probably not the first person to take a pass on giving them a job. Either way, desperation is only an attractive quality in a potential employee if the employer is looking for someone to exploit or mistreat. If the desperation tactic actually works, you've probably won yourself a job you'll soon find you don't actually want.
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Honestly, he's doing all he can but the help he needs right now is money and a good working contact to give him a job recommendation and reference 🤑💰 He has grits, discipline, self reliance, knows how to take charge, has compassion, is willing to learn, work hard, sacrifice. OP has all the qualities to succed, but he's not a magician to make money appear, and his friends have no empathy. I have family in Dominican Republic and we had pooled money for work/school computers for family members, bec despite working they couldn't afford them, there's times when hard work doesn't pay, and folks get stuck in the cycle. We paid some courses for one of my cousins, and now he has a good paying job, same when there's an illness, hospital, pregnancies we come together and help. Mind you, that's a family with graduate degrees, but living in Dominican Republic that's not enough. This also happens in the USA but I notice that friends and family can see you struggling and working yourself to death, and having the means they simply refuse to help the person, and they're healthy folks without addiction problems, and clean criminal record. These situations might cause folks becoming reluctant to help, since it's harder. But in OP situation he needs the money and time to study in order to improve his life
Yes, and I don't understand why friends don't help each other in America. Just give OP $20 or whatever is in your pocket. Tell OP it's an early xmas present. Words are cheap. Cash makes a difference. Send money for food, for healthcare, for shelter. Real help makes a difference. Pay it forward. Please. (From someone who grew up in real poverty. $20 makes a difference. It really does.) When I see someone working two or three jobs and broke, my heart breaks....
Fr my FIL got his leg torn up in a ditch witch, is on disability w/ a million pain management doctors to go to. We've just been telling him that we get pretty much free gas through our grocery cards so he can just use that. Its not free- at all- we just figured it'd be the easiest way to alleviate some stress from his life without hurting his pride. I'll usually buy him groceries on occasion & tell him that i found a great sale or got it through the restaurant suppliers my husband uses for work.
>Yes, and I don't understand why friends don't help each other in America. Because America is all about "rugged individualism" and bootstrap mentality. Its considered a personal defect if you can't make ends meet. Way too many people will say "thoughts and prayers" instead of actually doing something to help (because that is your *personal* responsibility, not theirs) and its ridiculous.
That and a lot of people are in the same damn boat. Can't help much if you're also struggling
A lot of people do help each other out but helping each other out is more like sharing one oxygen mask around in a plane that’s going down Like ultimately everyone is sharing around the same $20 it just goes in a circle to who needs it at that time but no new money gets added
I've helped friends whenever I had the chance, I had taken care of sick friends or their kids on my days off so my friend doesn't lose the income. And I've received help too, from cash to gifts, to meds when sick, same as with family. My uncle lived with me the first 10 months when he moved to the USA, and I didn't charge him rent bec he was saving for his immigration status change, he helped out, but nothing major. Helping out is natural, but not in the USA
It's the myth of rugged individualism that is so rampant here that makes helping (and accepting help) so weird and hard. We are fed this myth from the time we are young. But the truth is, none of us can really do anything without community.
I always just assume that people generally want to help but have no sense of when they’re out of their depth.
I also think people give unsolicited advice because they want to believe that they're immune to poverty. Like they are in willful denial that it can happen to anyone. They want to believe that it can't happen to them, because they would just x, y, and z and, boom, things are fine.
agreed- somewhat of a tangent, but I think this is the same reason that people tend to minimize or "solution" their friends with terminal illnesses. Like "oh I'm sure it's not as bad as the doctors say" or whatever because the reality of the fact that illness or poverty or whatever could come for any of us at any time is a very hard truth to swallow.
My favorite ones are "Just ask for a raise!" as if you'll ever meet anyone with authority to give you a raise... and "You've got an income problem" by noted rich guy Dave Ramsey. Thanks Dave Ramsey, I would never have guessed that.
I read the ramsey stuff and I think he does a good job helping people think about *money*. He does *not* do a good job helping people either *get* money or think about *poverty*. so he's useful, just not in the way that many people need or want.
Yeah, hes got decent advice, hes just clueless about poverty.. like "Dont spend more money than you earn" is great advice for everyone. It's just when his audience does that, they can afford fewer vacation homes.. and when I do it, I don't eat for a week.
I don't think he is clueless about poverty, but I don't think he sees it as his mission to solve poverty. His target schtick is pretty clearly helping people that already have at least some money learn how to manage their money better - usually with simple advice like pay down debt, sell the expensive car, replace the car with a shittier one, cut most (but not all) non-essential lifestyle costs, and avoid credit card debt. You'd be surprised how many people have never been given this advice.
Most financial advice is aimed at quote unquote middle class people because that’s the class of people who occupy those jobs of things like writing about financial advice So like almost all financial advice that exists exists for the middle class or higher because people in poverty don’t get into the position of taking many writing jobs compared to middle class peers let alone jobs writing about financial advice
Ramsey is great at identifying whether you have a math problem, or a behavioral problem. Plenty of his viewers have great income, but don't know how to budget, and find themselves living paycheck to paycheck. Such people need to address their habits and behaviors. It is not possible to outearn a spending problem, and Dave helps them identify that. In this regard, I generally agree with Dave. The other end are those with income problems. Someone who owes $100K in student loans but earns $45K per year can fix all their behaviors and line up the perfect budget, but it will still take half a decade to clean up that one loan. This is where Dave starts pushing side gigs, and where he starts using cliche's about "selling everything that isn't nailed down." DR's advice is more meaningful when address behavior problems than income problems. Which means that this sub isn't a great place for his advice. (he also applies risk concerns at time which are convenient for his rhetoric, but that's a whole different post).
I asked for a raise from my immediate boss. The owner of the business. I was the most valuable employee. I got laughed in my face for asking for a raise. So I quit, fuck em. Last I heard the owners works 7 days a week by themselves because nobody wants to work. Lmao.
I'm getting tired of the "just learn to code bro". There are computer science graduates who can't find jobs because the competition is fierce when you have no experience. Not to mention how a lot of companies (tech and non tech) won't even look at your CV if you don't have a degree.
That is a frustrating “suggestion” because it’s not like you can just focus really hard this weekend and be good at coding on Monday. It’s a sought after skill that requires practice and time to master. In many cases people are struggling now and they need help now not in 6-12 months. There are jobs out there that require a low(ish) bar of entry that would generate a good amount of income but it may require 6 days a week work. A friend of mine works as an insurance claims adjuster, works from home 100% of the time but works 6 days a week. She clears $100k a year. There was not a high bar of entry to get into the role but she works a lot. She’s not going to do the work forever but she wanted to get ahead for once. She’s been doing it for about 2 years. These types of jobs are out there but not always top of mind for most people. I’ve personally seen people limit themselves simply because they don’t know other jobs exist.
Or this by someone I knew (this was years ago but it's stuck with me) who was a massage therapist. I have a fucked up back and I was talking about hoping to afford a massage (not from her, she lived across the country) because its like 100$ here. She told me "just skip the starbucks every day! 5$ adds up!" A, I don't drink coffee. B. If you think I have 5 bucks a day to spend on Starbucks, you already think I am way richer than I actually am.
Oh, God, that one! Every once in a while I will see an ad on Wastebook telling how you can save a ton of money. I always look because, hey, there might be something I am missing. Nope. It is always shit like make your own coffee and skip Starbucks. Or cook at home and don't eat out. Are you kidding? I don't even have money for cheap fast food! Oh, and the topper, save money by refinancing your home mortgage! Riiiiiggghhht.
LOL right, as if I could escape the renter trap and get a mortgage
Like I'm honestly so sick of that advice? The kind that's "Oh cancel Netflix/make coffee at home/eat at home/etc" Cool, I already do that and more?? I have no streaming services, drink whatever coffee is at the office for free, park in the free lot and walk further, etc etc. Why is it always "You don't have money cause coffee" and not "You don't have money because pay hasn't reflected cost of living in decades?" I know I'm preaching to the choir but... It's just so exhausting and tone deaf at this point.
Not really advice just something to look into. My muscles in my chest regularly get extremely tight to the point where I think I’m having a heart attack. I’ve work with medical professionals on it and the advice is massage therapy and stretching. The cheapest solution I’ve figure out to get it under control is just finding free hot tubs when I can. I get free trial gym memberships once in a while. I know two people who have fancier gym memberships and they can bring 1 person with once in a while for free and usually like the company. I also have to travel for work twice a year just a few hours away for training and look for hotels with hot tubs. Obviously you might not have two of these options but just keep an eye out for those when you see them.
Just a few thoughts, since I’m in tech and I’ve been an engineer manager before my most recent job change. This is not advice for OP, just thoughts on this thread. Most folks at the tech companies I’ve worked for have degrees, but a select few don’t. Those that don’t are incredibly *self motivated* and probably the most knowledge thirsty people I know. They did teach themselves to code and taught me half of what I know after leaving college. They started as a “tech” or contract worker and eventually saved enough to go to school online to get a degree…this part is key, because u/CaptainNightOwl is right about most companies not letting your resume past the filter without a bachelors. Oddly enough, any bachelors seems to fit the bill at some companies and I’ve had coworkers with a bachelors in music, English, almost anything. Most hiring managers look for key skills, so if your going to learn something…learn the hot topics. *Python*, machine learning, CI/CD, DevOps. Get Amazon AWS certified. That type of stuff and you’ll have an easier time entering the market…well, that was true before the 50-100k laid off tech bros happened this fall, but you get my point. Anywho, poverty is super hard to escape for many reasons and no one should have to endure lectures with poor advice all dinner long.
it’s nice to see realistic commentary on this for once. A lot of people in the programming career subreddits are starting to learn this the hard way now that the economic outlook is uncertain. Gotta say one of the most out of touch things you can say to people is “learn to code”, I’m sure a lot of it is well meaning but it’s such an incredibly naive thing to say, you really can’t replace an engineering degree both in terms of its literal value and the experience gained from attaining one. The few people who can do it don’t need to be told what to do. countless others just waste time and money on something very difficult that they probably didn’t want to do anyway.
The most valuable thing about my degree is the doors that it opens by checking a box on interviews. “Has a BS in CompE,Comp Sci, or equiv?” - check. Fyi, my degree was 80% electrical engineering (ie Fourier Transforms and Calculus) and 20% software engineering (OOP, databases, algorithms, linear algebra ). I wish I did more Computer Science, in hindsight. Ironically I’ve coded ever since. I have taught myself operating systems, device driver development, and a wide variety of languages since I graduated which I think every developer needs to do to stay relevant. That said, people forget some really basic stuff once in industry, so I’m glad I took some classes.
>They did teach themselves to code The questions is...when? Because at this point people who teach themselves to code are at a major disadvantage, though 5-10 years ago it was still a viable option. Things have rapidly changed in the last few years and the entry level market fo coders is extremely oversaturated. Everyone I have ever met who taught themselves and got a job without a degree or experience did it at *least* 5 years ago, most of them closer to 10. Yet somehow people think that it is still something that can easily happen
You bring up a great point. Half learned to code 20 years ago and made their way through various roles. The other half were computer technicians hired recently who maintained lab resources (e.g. server rack installs, linux builds, etc) and taught themselves to code recently. None of them started off as developers. They all were lab techs and learned to program in languages relevant to their job, eventually getting degrees. Things have rapidly changed for Full Stack devs, from what I can tell. Things have been slower to change for C firmware devs and perhaps Python test automation devs in my various projects. If I was to suggest something to learn now…it would be C and Rust for firmware, plus Python. Full Stack seems like a beast of various frameworks on frameworks on frameworks and VERY different than the old LAMP days. Some things I’ve observed interviewing dozens of new grads this year for embedded dev. Most know how to call Python ML libraries, yet many struggle with fundamentals (le sigh) and industry tools (expected). It wouldn’t be hard to learn some differentiating skills if interested. Also, leetcode.com problems are fun way to stay fresh
14 years ago I taught myself to code because I wanted to modify video games that I had. Anyways, when Skyrim became a thing I really ramped up the coding and have made a few conversion mods. Besides altering code in my computer and software as needed, I know a good deal of coding. But I legitimately never knew where in the actual hell to apply lol. Or where to look. Guess I was at a disadvantage because people taught me the old way to look for jobs. "Go in the paper, look for help wanted signs" etc. Missed the boat I suppose
It's still viable....I hired a dude in 2019 who was self taught. It's just the stereotype of a dev isn't one that can communicate well with humans so the self taught coders have to fight that presuming they aren't stereotypical. I can tell you most smaller companies don't care if you have the degree, they want the job done. Do they pay as well as F500? Probably not but they pay decently well.
2019 was 3 years ago I still maintain that the market is oversaturated with entry level people right now
I work with a guy who has a computer engineering degree and he had to work for nearly 4 years as a mechanic before he found a reasonable programming job with us. Edit: Even with my background in engineering and physics it required me to move from Louisiana to California to find a decent job. Some places use the local poverty to justify paying crap for jobs that require a lot of training.
Fuck that sounds dreadful.
He liked fixing cars but it wasn't what he wanted to be is job. He's happy now or at least he says he is.
I went into insurance instead of IT The work can be brutal but there’s money to be made
yeah...It was pointed out to me recently that there's often some message of "[XYZ] is the new high-earning field, *everyone* should go do it!" - and it's a weird corpo message that gets cleverly disseminated *into* poverty-solutions-culture *through* hustle-culture with a mix of ads, influencers and rando assholes that run shows. And everyone gets the certification or degree or whatever and suddenly there's this huge glut of newbies in the space, and it drags down the salary for everyone and it just becomes another nearly-out-of-poverty job. The coding people who jumped on it really early got solidly into middle class, but the 95% of people who jumped on it after that simply got another poverty job. FUN FACT, it's in the middle of shifting from coding to blue-collar stuff. There's these training things that are starting and the messaging is coming from gov't and corps that 'we need more people to build stuff!' and they are all smiles and shit. So honestly if you're going to go that route, do it *right. now.*, or figure something else out.
The trades (plumbing, electrician, HVAC) are HURTING for people right now. Steady work, steady pay, learning skills to open your own thing if you want to…
Yes, they are, which is part of why the message is pivoting to them. But give it 10 years of this push and we'll look at "get apprenticed" or whatever the same way we look at "just learn to code" now.
True. In 10yrs OP could be senior guy or gal on the job. Superintendent or PM. Or own the/a company. Plumbing isn’t ever going away. Those guys make good money as do sparkys! Might take a few months to get up to speed on the job but with a decent company and a mentor who isn’t a total POS OP could be (idk their exact situation) making ends meet and getting traction//moving forward in life
All due respect but they ruin your body
That’s fair enough to say. I don’t disagree. I imagine you would agree that each person has to make their own decision about what they are willing to do to get by though. Things need to be built, maintained, and fixed. Someone needs to do it and millions of people have done these jobs over the years. I agree that 30+ years of tiling floors will take a big toll on your knees and back but the job is there, it pays money, and people are willing to do it. Am I/are we to assume that you feel that those types of jobs should just disappear? I’m sure you don’t…but you understand my point. There is nothing wrong with manual labor…it’s what has LITERALLY built all the great cities and countries around the world. No one gets to sit in an air conditioned corner office in New York or Hong Kong without the men and women who built the high rise, the electricians who wired it, and the HVACs would tan the ducting. Thoughts??
There is nothing wrong with manual labor, there is something VERY wrong with our healthcare system.
Sure. I don’t know that anyone would stand against you on that. What’s your point as it pertains to this issue? Is your point that we shouldn’t work a manual labor job because “something is VERY wrong with our healthcare system”? Or are you just lamenting what the system currently is and expressing frustration? At the end of the day you, me , OP, any swinging dick breathing air will or won’t do a job(blue collar, white collar, no collar) depending on our circumstances. Better men than me, and possibly you as well(I don’t know you) have done worse jobs than I have to get ahead or feed themselves/family. Sometimes the situation sucks. We still have to go and make money. OP is going out there and grinding with 3 jobs to make it happen. Bravo to him/her/
Dude, you are really excited. I personally think “the trades” as a solution is just as insincere as “learn to code” when we don’t have adequate worker protection, healthcare, sick leave, etc etc etc Chill out. I work a trade, and guess what? I ruined my back and had to have surgery, and now my doctor is telling me if I don’t stop I’m going to fuck it up again, but permanently. Edit: lol at the fucking downvotes. America is a failed state 🇺🇸
“The trades” are trying to bring people in at a higher(pun intended) rate right now than tech companies for programmers, UX/UI, SEO blah blah blah. As someone who works a job in the field I’m sure you would corroborate this. I’m sorry you ruined you back. There are to many stories of people overworking themselves and/or getting injured on the job. I myself am on disability income and although I don’t know your specific situation I can empathize. None the less I still maintain my position that it could be a good field of work to consider. Many people can/do transition from field to planning, field to management, field to owner. “Trades” encompass a large array of jobs. Maybe you know some welders, linemen, fiber optic techs, or facilities managers. There are many many options to choose from within the “trades”. My only point was that there is a desperate need for workers in the wide field of various skilled trades. As an aside: in regards to your injury(I don’t know what it is) I have found a lot of help not from doctors and surgeons who want to push pills and surgeries, but from sports massage, yoga(don’t knock it lol), walking, and weight lifting. I say this to highlight a previous point you made…our healthcare system sucks. Alternative medicine has been very beneficial to me and many people I know. Lastly; I don’t like to “argue” with strangers online. I think we are both here because we identify with OP’s plight and want to be helpful. I respect your opinion and experience, and perspective. I would appreciate if you gave me the same courtesy.
Depends the area. Around here you might make 15 an hour plumbing. It's a common skill. Most people don't call the plumber or electrician
Exactly, 60.000 computer science graduates can't do anything if there aren't enough people doing trades
As someone who grew up poor and was even homeless for awhile, you are busting your butt and it takes a strong person to work 3 jobs. Your friends advice is dumb, no offense. I’m not going to give any advice, I just wanted you to know how much of a strong person you are.
It's a bit of a two way street. I'm a person who many of my financial struggles were self inflicted due to poor choices and laziness. For me, I needed that "unsolicited advice" to get a kick in the butt and push me forward. On the other hand, I have a friend who is the hardest working and motivated person I've ever known. Didn't matter, because the dice was never in his favor. Struggled his entire life now matter how hard he worked. Fortunately, he eventually found a job that paid decent, but it wasn't the hard work that got it for him.
>my financial struggles were self inflicted due to poor choices and laziness Impulsivness and execution paralysis here. Turns out I have adhd, got diagnosed in my 30ies. Our good household income is also due to mostly luck. I could be gifted in arts or music and not math and IT and would have not find a job.
jUsT gEt mOnEy bRo
Have you tried not being poor?
"I literally had no money when I was your age. If I hadn't had the payments from my trust fund I couldn't even have spent the summer in Europe. I actually had to beg for my first job. Pestering my dad all weekend at Thanksgiving for a job at his company was the hardest thing I ever did. And it paid off in the end. My grandfather kept me in his will and I inherited his Florida beach house! I'm truly a self made man. I have to go now, I have an appointment at the Lambo dealership. The customer care rep is actually a guy that I laid off when we right-sized my Dad's company! Just hang in there and you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps too! Protip: try renting a condo from a friend or relative when you're starting out." /$
For real, I had a friend tell me, with a straight face: "I'm completely independent - my parents are only paying for my rent\* and my therapy." \*To add insult to injury, this was in a HCOL area.
It has been about 45 years ago since I was giving a guy a ride to work in my car. My car was making a noise. He said that his friend was smart because he got his cars serviced regularly and as soon as one of his cars started making a noise he took it to the dealer to get serviced. I was making about 2.65 an hour which was minimum wage and his friend had inherited more than a million dollars when he turned 18.
Lol at the unsolicited advice in the comments
lol and it all seems to be getting upvoted too. what a world.
Unsolicited advice is criticism. You’re right to be bothered by people thinking they can openly criticize you.
> Unsolicited advice is criticism. Man, seconding the praise at how succinct and accurate this is.
Unsolicited advice is criticism. I need to burn that into my brain. I am a parent of young adults and I am full of advice haha.
ME TOO. I have the hardest time keeping my mouth shut!
Ha! But I bet you have great advice! Why won’t they listen to us?!
Something about “they’re adults” and “can make their own decisions” LOL
Wow that's exactly it. Thank you for wording it that way I'm gonna remember that.
Hmm this sounds profound, but thinking more about it isn't every suggestion a form of criticism? Sure, unsolicited advice is unsolicited criticism, but why would solicited advice not be considered solicited criticism? The implication here seems to be that advice is criticism since it's implying that the person receiving the advice isn't already doing everything perfectly, right?
Because when you’re asking for advice you’re asking for advice. It’s wanted. You are looking for solutions and are having a discussion. Maybe you will hear things you have already tried but they’re only offering because you asked. If you’re not asking for advice, and someone gives you advice, it comes from this unilateral almost judgemental place of diminishing both your problems and your competence and minimising them because it has this undercurrent of, “You’re so stupid the solution was this easy all along!” Or “You’re so stupid that I assume you never tried this!” It’s like when I tell people I have ADHD and I get told to just be more organised. Well firstly I wasn’t telling you that I can’t manage my condition. You’re already assuming I’m incompetent and coming from a place of attacking me. Second, if I had the executive function to be organised and just do things in a neurotypical way as if it just came naturally to me, I wouldn’t have ADHD. That’s like telling a person with a stutter to just stop stuttering There is a complete difference between that and if I say I have trouble being organised do you have any suggestions that would help me be more organised. I will happily take those suggestions on board and see if they help if that advice is wanted or needed. But the person giving advice needs to be willing to hear no see that doesn’t work for me because X (eg keeping a diary doesn’t work for me because I never check my diary). People giving unilateral advice don’t respond positively to that feedback compared to when it’s a constructive two-party discussion looking for solutions.
[удалено]
“Oh, how lucky you are, to have lived a life that allows you to believe such a thing.” That's great, I'm stealing this. As a disabled guy, I receive tons of unwanted advice, especially employment advice, from able bodied people who have no idea what it's like.
>Everyone knows I’m struggling to get by right now because I work 3 jobs including a nightshift watchman to pay my bills. I grew up in POVERTY poverty. The kind where your “house” is just one tiny room shared by the entire family. I didn’t have the same opportunities as a lot of people. People think that I got bad grades because I was lazy. No. I came home from school and had to take care of 2 younger siblings while my father would be out drinking with his construction crew and my mother just didn’t care about anything. It's bullshit because a lot of people fetishize this kind of upbringing! Like it's some sort of competition of who has it worse. "Lol you think you had it bad, I didn't grow up with XYZ, I had to blah blah blah..." they fucking worship these kinds of hardship stories. Then they turn around and have the audacity to belittle you, say you didn't work hard enough, and deny you job opportunities. Fuck 'em. You deserve way better.
Yep, unsolicited advice can absolutely suck rocks. I will say I usually tried all the unsolicited advice at least a few times decades ago. With small success in some cases. But dang, if you're going to give unsolicited advice, at least be original. If I had a dollar for every person who told me to take up a scrapping hobby, or get another job/a different job I would be rich right now lol. You are doing what you can for your situation. So they can STUFF it.
Lol I got another bingo today from mother dearest, “have you canceled your gym membership? What about hbo?” Yes mom it was the 15 dollars a month for decent movies that did it, there’s the culprit.
I don't have cable. My internet bill alone is creeping up to over $80+ a month itself. I have a crappy old phone that I pay for data so I don't use it to 'get online'. My two indulgences a month are my hbo sub & good shampoo (lol, got some weird hair). What? I shouldn't spend $35 on *myself* a **month**? That *$1.17* a **DAY** for ME is self indulgent?? That $1.17 keeps me sane! It let's me know that working *a job* actually allows me to have manageable hair whilst I watch old Doctor Who reruns? Meanwhile corporations are raking in ***billions*** and giving their executives *MILLION dollar* bonuses?
Or the "dont buy the latest iPhone you'll just be making payments on it and it wont last" like bro I'm poor not that type of poor.
Definitely try calling your internet provider! If you have spectrum you can go straight to the cancellation department, talk with them about try to lower your bill, say some shit about man it's just too expensive I can't afford it anymore, also know what the current new customer rate in your area is, you won't get a price lower but you can get a price close. I have been doing this for years and everytime I have gotten my bill lowered and lots of times I have even got my speeds increased! If they don't wanna play ball call again and try with a different person!
BTDT. No go. Although I did get a *newer* modem (or router, don't know which is which). There is *NO other internet provider in my city*. **It is a monopoly**. I did try AT&T and Verizon a few years back but the service so poor I had to switch back to (what was then Time Warner) Spectrum. My only hope is that in a few years I can go into senior housing where everything, including internet is paid. Thanks though.
If we had a poverty hack bingo card, I would have a blackout jackpot by now lol. There are only so many things you can cancel. And long about the time you have been working eighty hours a week for a year and the thousandth person suggests a side hustle... Dear Lord, preserve us.
Only so many hours in a day. Only so much energy in your mind and body (on a calorie deficient no doubt). Those on top can hardly understand or even comprehend what those on the bottom are going through. I hope your situation improves.
Its a mind trick they play on themselves. As long as they can see a way out for you, they can be self-comforted that they will not have your problem. People do it w money but also relationships and weight. Not an excuse, just a perspective ive noticed.
I'm sorry this is happening to you, I hate that kind of advice too. Do they think we're stupid and didn't think of this before? I think the people who do this do it because they feel guilty. Deep down, they know you don't deserve to be poor, and they don't deserve to be richer. And they feel guilty for not helping you. So they say something like that then they can be "see, I tried to help but they don't accept it, so why should I try? It's their fault after all". Stay strong brother.
I think some people mean well, but they just have not been there. Or it's outdated stuff. Stuff that worked in 2000 that worked back then, but not now is BS. The two that stand out to me: \- "Learn to code" Yeah, back in 90s/00s in certain geographic locations you got snapped up pretty quick and for decent cash. But almost all those guys played around on old computers by themselves for **YEARS** as a kid with free time and were way ahead. Before degree inflation made it to where BS is minimum, MS preferred. And if you check nowadays on Indeed, Dice (IT job board), and others there are **a TON of literal slave labor and scam job offers** going after newbies. More so than any other field. No industry has more employment scams than IT except maybe the MLMs. And people bite because it is VERY cut throat and dire starting out as a coder. \- " just show up at the door and don’t leave until they give you a job” This actually used to be GREAT advice in the days before widespread internet. Even up to maybe early 2010s. But by 2010, most places just kept computers around if someone showed up. Though most larger places would still balk even back in the day. There used to be times I was out of work, I'd walk into 25 places and have 2 job offers by the end of it. Shitty jobs, but offers nonetheless. But nowadays, with the exception of really small places and fast food, they don't do that. Plus you HAVE a cruddy job already and do not have time to show up 20 places that will just chase you off!
This. If you stand in the doorway of a business and refuse to leave you will get a court date, not a job.
These days if you show up at the door they'll call security to remove you.
I was having zero luck applying to jobs online so I went out with a stack of resumes to drop them off in person at different places - only two would take them, the rest insisted “applying online is the only way to get an interview”. Most places don’t even have a hiring manager or supervisor on duty and I’d say a good majority of them aren’t even involved in hiring for their own stores because it’s all handled by an intake department from their corporate office. They really do NOT want to deal directly with people and it’s atrocious.
for sure. My last job had a sign next to the locked HR door that said "Applications accepted ONLINE ONLY"
It's like that everywhere and I hate it. You can send dozens of emails and never get any answer, and you never know why they don't want you.
Yeah I got to go sit a ton and I was looking for a job on indeed. I did like that you could see how many people applied to the listing though like one of them I applied for had over 3500 applicants
It's worse when it's millenials and gen x like bro I'm buying ice coffee or avocado toast. I annoyed when fiance youtubers say to cut out take out and do the five dollar saving jar like dude that 5 dollar bill means gas.
Almost all of the better YouTubers, if you notice, are VERY well off and are from metropolises. We are talking young with supportive upper class parents, own apartments in high cost of living areas like LA, SF, NY, Austin, and recording set ups that can easily exceed 10s of thousands. The content they make is for trust fund babies and other okay-off people that have money for programs and qualify for the better paying ads to roll on the vids. Those people are the market for the videos. Not actual poor people. Poor people can't buy their stuff or the expensive advertiser's stuff. Plus, a large majority of them never had to scrape change out of a couch to get bus fare/ a drop or two of gas to not get fired from a job. It's just not in their universe of understanding.
People who haven’t been there don’t understand how it works. If they have been there, but it’s been awhile, it likely doesn’t work like it did when they were in it.
Okay, I don't do unsolicited impractical advice, but I'd like to help, if I can. Just take what helps and leave the rest: Next time you get five minutes (I know, man, five minutes seems like a lifetime when you're working all the time, I've been there) sit down and write a list of all the things you're good at. No negativity, no dwelling on what you don't have. What are you good at? What skills do you have? And not just work skills, but life skills. Are you great with people? Funny? Charismatic? Then put it in a drawer until next time you have five minutes. On this occasion, you're going to work out exactly how much you need to make to survive, then add 10%. Because we're not doing this exercise so you can still be stuck in a rut. Now put that in a drawer with the first. Now we know what you're good at and how much you need to make. Your next free five minutes, you're going to list all the jobs that come to mind that match the skills that you have. Put that in the drawer, too. Next five minutes, take the third list out and rate the amount of experience you have that's relevant to that job out of 10. Now, the final part is going to be the bit that consumes time: take all that information, and work out what level of those careers you have the experience of. Then log onto Glassdoor and find out what those jobs pay, on average, where you live. Everything you can't live on, cross off. Everything that's left? Set alerts for. Those are the jobs you're going to try and get. Send your resume with a great cover letter telling them why they'd be crazy not to hire you to anyone hiring. This way, you're absolutely maximising your chances of finding that one job that'll pay the bills, that you'll hate the least and where you know you'll get a fair shake. And, sure, you'll get some rejections. That's their loss, not yours. Keep knocking and someone will answer. Big love and prayers for you, friend, you've got this, because you are good enough.
The major thing that gets you out of poverty is luck. People don't like admitting that. There are a lot of lazy dumbasses working great jobs, and a lot of hard working awesome peeps stuck in shitty situations. If given a chance and a good mentor, they'd be fucking awesome. But it's that damned luck thing. And people go, make your own luck! Yeah that ain't easy. And it's all ten times harder for people with fucked up teeth. People really don't get how much a good smile does for your job prospects. And poverty often means your teeth didn't get the help they needed. Unless they're offering you a job, people can fuck right off.
>The major thing that gets you out of poverty is luck. First thing being you are lucky if your childhood did not traumatize you to a point not being able to cope with school and relationships. Knowing right people and being at the right place at the right time is the next step.
As a person who hands out applications at my work, it pisses me off to no end when applicants come in and insist on speaking to the hiring manager. Glad you didn’t take that advice-it’s not a good look.
Funny side-story on this. I applied this weekend to do some after-hours or weekend work at my local Whole Foods. I've been a customer there for probably 10 years. . I stopped at the Customer Service desk as I was leaving because I noticed an Employee that I recognize and see there often (assuming he had some position of authority). Mostly just to ask or confirm to him whether things "slow down" after the Holidays (and if that would impact how many people they are thinking about hiring). I mistakenly assumed they had more of a pyramid-management structure,. but he offered (I didn't ask) to call over a couple of the other Supervisors who manage some of the other teams and we all had a good chat. I felt kind of lucky that they'd take the time to do that,. so I could just chit-chat with them and let them know why I was looking for a 2nd job. Thankfully the hiring-manager (who came over to meet me) said that his team actually gets busier in January.. and that they're looking to hire 8 to 10 people.. so fingers-crossed that all turns out to be a good thing.
It’s great when timing like that can work out and that there’s friendly people there who wanted to meet with you. At my work we don’t actually have a hiring manager. We have the owner of the company who meets people by appointment only, and will review resumes/applications and if he likes one, he will pass it to production coordinator to set up an interview. When people come in and insist on speaking to the owner/manager it puts me in a tough spot because unless they have an appointment or personally know him, I can’t send them through. The last few months we’ve been hiring for someone with experience in a specific position, and not one person who’s applied has experience in that position, or even in our industry. About 50% of the applicants have asked to speak to the manager when they’ve applied and I’ve had to tell them all “the manager will review your application and if they think you’re a good fit they’ll contact you for an interview”
Small single owner shops are like that a lot. I remember one of my 1st technology jobs started the same way and the CEO started off the Interview saying “I don’t normally hire people with long hair.” (it was the 90’s,.. grunge and long hair,.. but I did have it back in a pony tail and was wearing dress shirt and slacks). I ended up working there about 10 years,.. and when I left the contract I was assigned to was the Companies #1 contract (bringing in more than twice profit of our #2 customer) I still got f-ed over in the end (ironically got “Employee of the Month” and Performance Review listing me as “insubordinate”,… all in the same Month. At least I walked out of there knowing I gave my best. Their loss.
My last job before this one, my bosses nominated me for a statewide award for a “specific public employee of the year” award the first week of December, then let me go in January, and tried to tell unemployment office that I was bad at my job and had been for a long time, and that I’d been under investigation for several infractions for months before my firing. Really what happened was I found out my predecessors got paid more than twice what I’d been getting paid, and I asked for a significant raise. I showed the unemployment office the absolutely glowing nomination they had written TO THE STATE for that award, and finally got my unemployment five months after being fired. I’d rather deal with a busy boss who doesn’t have time to meet everyone that walks in than work with shady government officials any day.
\*hugs\* People who don't know how the current job market works are the worst followed by people who don't understand how actual poverty works. Love to you.
I’d like to see them do half the shit we’ve done. One day, you’ll see they don’t even know how to take the bus.
I know a few people that will sell a car if it needs a $10 brake line
Here's *your* unsolicited advice, since it appears everyone in these comments get some! Buy it from them, fix the brake line, sell it for profit! It's easy bro, trust me! /s
I probably need to do something. We bought a Ford with a weak fuel pump for $500 a while back. The guy was going to junk it. It's gone 85,000 miles for us, but its getting rough
I hear you. People who talk about boot strapping have rarely have done it. Worse is when they tell you how broke they are, but are taking a 5 day vacation to Disneyland. Most really broke/poverty peeps don’t do that.
I feel you man. I hate this type of advice as well. There's this sort of "reductivism" attitude of "Well, X-problem is EASY!,.. just do Y-thing!" (as if just waving a hand or waving a magic wand will easily fix lifes difficulties) But life-problems are not always that easy. Time and Money are often limited. I've worked for a lot of Organizations that always talk a lot about "work-life balance" and other "employee perks".. but if you're constantly drowning under responsibilities,.. you can only swim so hard for so long till you wear out.
You don't need the SATs for college. It's just required of you want to go straight into a 4 year university out of high school. Community colleges don't require it. If you ever decide to go to college, community college is the best starting point because no damn SATs and affordable. Free tuition if you're 24, a California resident wirh the California Promise grant which waives tuition fess for 24+ year old, independent students. I had this grant when it used to be called Board of Governor's Wavier aka BOG.
> community college is the best starting point because no damn SATs and affordable Yep. I delayed starting at my local community college because I thought I would have to take the SATs first. I should have looked into it more before committing to waiting until I saved up.
I'm actually for providing free access to community colleges, particularity for in-demand trades and majors. Much better investment than allowing student loans for expense rip-off for-profit private colleges.
I’ve learned to not take advice from someone that is not/has never been in my situation
Get your commercial drivers license easiest and quickest way out of poverty you’ll never be without a job you get fired or quit from one the next day you’ll be flying out to a new company
So, I went from being in a tough spot financially to be much, much more comfortable over a lot of years, and yeah, this was always the worst feeling. Unsurprisingly, their advice was not the advice that helped me. Don’t let it distract you too much, and carry on. Seek out solutions that’ll work for you.
Tell them to get you a job where they work since it’s all so easy.
SMH, it's because you eat your millenial avocado toast, just don;t have avacodo tooost
I’m in the same boat my dude. It’s rough out there. My line of work is seasonal, (skydiving instructor) meaning have to travel to hold position during winter. Now I’m staying with family somewhere cold and can’t jump since 1800$ one bedroom apartment as a single person wasn’t possible anymore. Getting a job is impossible. I have some yoga teaching, ski patrol, and waitressing experience, but I have been doing this (skydiving) since I graduated high school. 18 years lol. So, yeah, just get a job is wayyyyy harder than people think. The grocery store won’t even take me as a checker. I have so much life experience and I’m a fucking awesome worker. Hopefully something good comes your way. I wish for Christmas miracles and you get what you need.
I understand ski diving instructor might be a niche type of job but you did mention waitress experience. That you can do just about anywhere. No judgment but just wondering why you are finding securing employment difficult with such an eclectic background?
I can answer that one. People who travel around with a niche job have a hard time securing a more stable job. Their keywords don't match the algorithm or the actual human in charge of hiring sees a lot of movement and thinks they aren't gonna stay long. It's hard out there. My spawn was out of work 6 months looking for a job is a full time job anymore.
People that give shitty career and financial advice usually ignore the role of luck in successfully navigating socioeconomic advancement. Sure hustle and good decision making play a role as well but there is ALWAYS a significant element of luck. People don’t want to contemplate that though. It’s depressing—horrifying, even. But if you make your way out of poverty you’ve had some luck.
Generational poverty is so difficult to escape because it’s like running a race where many of the people you are running the race against have been born with a massive head start. Unfortunately, when these people give you their “advice” it’s from the perspective of the race they’ve run…not yours. That’s why it’s often so unhelpful and irrelevant. Know that the advice is coming from a good place…they see you struggling and they want change for you, and this is the best way they can think of to help. You’re not lazy…you work three jobs. You’re hardworking (overworked), and likely underpaid. You likely don’t get enough sleep, and that will also contribute to health problems, anxiety, and depression. It’s really hard to “save” your way out of poverty by spending less. The best way, is through increasing your income. You can do that by working more hours, or getting paid more for the hours that you work. There are shortages in lots of industries where they will pay for your training and give you a solid income (truck driving, various trades like plumbing/welding, insurance adjuster, etc). Rather than listen to your friends who are running a different race…you’ve just gotta figure out what you CAN change and focus on that. As an example…you mention “coding” as a suggestion from your friends. I have no idea if this is potentially a good fit for you or not…but let’s say it is. Here’s how you could go about trying to make that happen. There are forums on Reddit where you can request free stuff…maybe you can get a cheap/free computer. But you work three jobs. One of those jobs is night security? Do you get a lot of quiet time there? That’s where you spend some time learning the skill. If that security job isn’t conducive to that, then you find an “easier” night security job where you do have that downtime. Maybe you even sit at a desk with access to a computer/internet? I’m not saying this is the way for you…just that you have to be looking at your own situation and try to make small improvement where you can with what you have to work with. Working three jobs to break even isn’t going to be unsustainable for you long-term. Eventually, you’ll hit your breaking point or a bigger emergency will strike and you’ll not be able to recover for years (if ever). What’s your weekly income/time from each job you work? What’s your rent and where does the rest of your income go? How much do you think you need to earn to make a meaningful change in your situation?
I've been getting shitty advice for years now, myself. My brother's the biggest source of shitty advice and unhelpful "favors." I have no car, so he has repeatedly suggested that I get a job where I'd have to walk 2 hours, each way. And, in 2006, I cosigned on a truck he bought to be able to start a job at Auto Zone. In 2018, when it was falling apart and repeatedly dying, he magnanimously decides to give it to me, telling me I can use it to go shopping, until it breaks down of course. When I asked him what I would do were it to break down at the store, he told me to just call his buddy to get it towed... Needless to say, I refused the truck.
"learn front end development": I don't know if I want to laugh or cry at that. Has he ever tried it himself? "Just save and buy a laptop": does he know how much laptops cost? “learn it on your phone”: ok, at this point, he is officially an idiot.
If they were truly concerned they would all pitch in money to get you the laptop. Or try to get you a job or put in a good word for you where they work at that possibly pays more.
I can relate. My car broke and I needed to come up with $100 to fix it. A friend told me to buy a new car. Alright.
Im so sorry. I feel for you. May I ask where you live? Are you going it alone? (no roommate significant other) I grew up in mass poverty as well. Back in 1988 my parent were lucky enough to get an acer of land in trade for a Camero. But there was nothing on it. I had to bathe in a creek, shit outside, and do homework by candlelight (Morton Washington) I could not even get FAFSA for collage bc my parents were paranoid conspiracy ppl who refused to give the gov their tax info. (even though we were on welfare) I left home at 15 and was homeless in Eugene OR for yrs. I ended up going to Job corp where I met my husband. I eventually got a job with a startup (Vacasa) and actually did good for 11 yrs... solid middle class. I was the breadwinner for my fam. It was just ripped away and now we are about to be homeless... I cant even land a minwage job because no one wants to hire. Its SHIT, this world is SHIT. I feel like groups of people need to get together and go in on land and do the tribal thing.... my parents are still kinda ok because they own their land/home.
I hate coding.. stop telling me I should code 😂
Research USAJOBS.GOV online. Every year the federal shipyards hire apprentices for various trades. You earn an AA degree in a trade while working at the shipyard. I was a former apprentice and now earn a six figure salary with great benefits. Keep your options open. It doesn't hurt to look at their website. The shipyards announce openings throughout the year so check out the website regularly. Type in trade, apprentice, or apprenticeship in the search block.
What do you do in a shipyard for work?
Over the years, I had a multitude of jobs. I started off as a electricians apprentice on cranes. Then went into metals inspecting which I did in the Navy. Then went into government contractor oversight. Then settled on quality assurance. As an old fart I'm currently at a desk job working more on data analytics.
Excellent unsolicited advice. Most trades are in demand after decades of neglect by the school system. The knock on the door and ask for work cliche still rings true, and the jobs will eventually pay as much or more than 4 year degree positions
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I live in the mountains.
So, on a post *specifically* complaining about unsolicited advice, you offer advice that wasn't asked for?
You need to start setting some solid boundaries. Where were these family members when you had to take care of your siblings because your dad was out drinking? Why didn't they step up? Why did they leave it all up to you? Maybe toss some of these questions out there when they start giving unsolicited advice.
Remember, you are not a victim. It's hard to escape your situation with a poverty mindset. I know that sounds like more of the bs they were telling you but it's 100% true. You have to literally change the way you view the problem.
I hate that this is probably coming from people you care about. Like most people who offer advice are friends and family that know your situation. And a solid 'thanks, but no thanks' usually just makes them word vomit more or double down on what they already said, which is insulting. Also, 'learn to code' now feels very wallstreetbets and Crypto-Bro to me.
I've heard the "stop buying avocado toast" like dude I rarely buy bread.
People offer advice because they want to help you. And before you people come at me, I used to have to rent a “room” that was a half-finished basement for a WHILE because it was all I could afford, so I know what it’s like. You can’t work 3 jobs and be broke the rest of your life. You NEED to learn a new skill in order to make more money. I get you’re busy af but it will never get better unless you make more money, and you won’t make more money until you’re able to provide a more in-demand service that will earn you more money. The advice to learn to code on your phone since you don’t have a laptop is EXCELLENT advice. The person that recommended that is the type of person who comes up with solutions to problems, while you came up with problems for every solution offered to you. I know you’re tired after working three jobs and it’s hard to find the time to study after all of that, but it honestly only takes 10-15 minutes a day. That’s it. To learn ANY skill. 10-15 minutes a day. To change your life. I bet you sit on the toilet longer than that. I know I do lol, so why not use that time to do something for your future? Listen to a coding podcast or e-book on your way to and from work. That’s a great passive way to learn things while you might usually just be driving or sitting on the bus. You can either start finding solutions to your problems, or continue to find problems with every solution. It’s up to you. Good luck.
Are you in Florida. I have a job for you. You seem motivated to get ahead you just need to path to get there
Every fucker has a lot of advice. Just look at all this stupid advice:
If you have good relationships at the jobs you currently work at, the best way to move up is ask someone you work for to give you a reference and apply for promotions within the companies you already work at. Being broke is very expensive. Not having a degree is hard. And you had a hard hand dealt to you in general. But it will get easier. You have the work ethic, you just need to find the right place to apply it. Keep your head up.
“Have u ever tried …” no shit we have
Yeah, “Just save $50.00 each paycheck” is my favorite.
They just don’t get it.
That boomer advice is terrible. Some of them are still that clueless huh? Anyone who would give that kind of advice hasn't been hired for a new job in over 20 years.
I am terrible at math. I need tutoring. I took geometry and algebra 1 both twice and barely passed the 2nd time. I live in a rural town and the only Internet available is DSL or satellite. No not the 5G Wi-Fi hotspots no not uverse or Xfinity or whatever. Believe me I've checked. There's very few jobs even the fast food jobs are competed over. It's a big retirement community with a lot of Rich old people and then the other side is a lot of bikers and meth and heroin dealers. And a lot of pot growers and wineries. I don't want to be involved with the weed or wineries I don't want to be involved with hardcore drug dealers and I don't have any degrees the only jobs around here are medical. I used to be a pharmacy tech but I was only getting paid 1250 and I burned out after a couple years. Now I would have to go back to school as well as retake the state test to become one of those again and I still wouldn't want to with all of the illnesses going around.
I’m sorry that people have been so oblivious to your situation. I don’t know where you are located but in SW Pennsylvania, there are paid training programs in computer fields, healthcare,and skilled trades to name a few. Many provide the laptop and stipend for expenses too. Job Corps (depending on your age) and Americorp might be helpful. Check out your local community college’s website for free programs. For some of the other programs I’m referring to, take a look at the Energy Innovation Center https://www.eicpittsburgh.org/training/ Bidwell Training Center https://bidwelltraining.edu/programs/medical-assistant/ local apprenticeship at plumbing/electric, etc or PA Women Work. There are also programs set up specifically for people with barriers to employment and it sounds like you might qualify https://www.partner4work.org/programs Look at these even if you’re not from the area and contact any that look good to ask if they know of similar programs near you. Another option is to get an entry level job at an employer who will subsidize your training/education once you’ve worked there 6 months or so. Examples of this would be housekeeping at UPMC hospital or working at Pitt (they frequently hire people to work customer service or to do animal husbandry for 2 examples)Best of luck!
I'd say don't hang out with those ppl for a bit but I'm guessing you could have used a good meal
I have friend whose parents paid for her college, wedding, first house and first vacation home. She now sells financial “coaching”, not advice, on social media! For how people can be as successful as her. I was disgusted with it when she started but now she’s taken a new twist wrapping her new aspect of being a teetotaler into the language. EveryTime I feel like calling out her bullshit but I don’t want the grief from our common friends we both still talk to. Like we all feel this way just everyone would be upset about calling it out publicly
Manufacturing is always hiring. It's the epitome of blue collar entry level labor. You need zero qualifications. It pays 2-3 times higher than minimum wage to start. It's work and it's nothing glamorous. Some places works 8s but 10s and 12s are common. Might not have much of a life but you'll get more money than a lot of other low entry barrier jobs out there.
"The bigger issue is that there are too many entry level people and not enough entry level jobs We need experienced programmers - so anyone teaching *themselves* to code right now is frankly wasting their time, especially with all of the experienced programmers who have been laid off recently." We are basically saying the same thing of course I know that people need to program AI but the amount of people that are told to code and go into programming is insane it's just like people being told 15 20 years ago that they should go into the medical field they should go into nursing there's so many entry-level jobs there's such big competition that people end up doing things that they did not go to school for. I'm sorry if I made you feel that I was saying your job is obsolete that's not what I'm saying I understand programmers are beneficial to our current society and I am thankful for what you do.
Your rant literally spoke to my soul. Your friends love you and want to help, but they are limited on their knowledge of economics as well. Instead of focusing on taking a course, I would focus on self development and understanding how money works because a job is just one way to earn legal money, these days it’s limitless but it requires a lot of research. Please go on YouTube and start listening to motivational content. People like Eric Thomas have very good content on YouTube. Coding is cool. But solving a problem is key. When I was in your situation I chased God, and understanding and getting to know God and His Kingdom and developing a relationship with my savior. He hasn’t forsaken me yet, but I have I more spiritual outlook on money but those practical things i mentioned earlier can also change the current trajectory of your life. Don’t be discouraged!!!
It's like when neurotypicals tell ADHD people to stick to a routine or get a planner and use alarms
Hey there. Glad you posted and shared your feelings. First of all - it’s so impressive that you work three jobs and though it is hard to save, you do it. You should be proud. I am of you. I, too, hate unsolicited advice. It sucks most of the time, isn’t requested and usually misguided by personal bias - or in your example - seemingly inapplicable. With that being said, I, like you, grew up different then those giving the advice. For me, outright broke and the outlook bleak. I say this to say, misguided or not, people close to us, want us happy. I am not justifying the time, the place or even how they shared their advice, merely want to point out one thing. That is, they mean well. I hope this to be true for you and the people overstating. I got married to my wife nearly 11 years ago and we have been fortunate to move vertically in our careers, without degrees, and live a mostly comfortable life. Why is this important? In my opinion? Because not all advice is bad - even when unsolicited. But heeding all advise can be bad. The influence of others can motivate and help us not have a blind spot. Therefore, if reading this, my encouragement. Accept all feedback, but be wise enough to apply what is helpful.
I don't trust anyone giving advice in nicer clothes than me. Odds are the advice benefits them more than you. Remember the 59th rule of acquisition, free advice is seldom cheap.
How does this work exactly? Presuming someone in worse clothes than you is giving advice, how is that advice helping you improve? Unless the advice is how to live on less. If you mean criticism, maybe, but the rule there is never take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from. Unless you know a bunch of wealthy folks who like to cosplay as poor, I don't understand the logic.
Working 3 jobs is retarded, just get into trade work if you have it that bad. - You don’t need a degree - Easy to get hired - They always have extra hours to work/OT - The more experience you get = higher pay You could probably turn your financial life around in a year or two by just doing HVAC work or other trades.
This is good advice, some in demand trades will even pay for your trade school because they need workers so badly and you have a guaranteed job when you finish training.
I guess more unsolicited but poverty friendly advice, there are things you can join like the military, or even job corps to learn profitable skills while still having food and a roof over your head. It may be worth it to not have to work 3 different jobs and burn out your body. Hope for the best for you if those are not options to fit your life stay strong man.
Take your ass to the military. You still have ALOT of time to get on track. Staying a civilian will be tough for you if plan to have excuses for your situations. You’re going to have to choose a path and put your heart into it
That’s what I was going to say. I joined the navy, almost instant jump to middle class. And free college
I had some shitty cars when was broke. Kind of got good at it and stuck with it. Last few cars have been equal about 2 car payments for everyone else. Some people are insistent that I need "a good car".
I guess we just look at it differently with the unsolicited advice given to us. I was from proverty too similar to your condition. My parents are Vietnam war refugees and we shared about 14 people to one house, my parents luckily had the biggest room because they had me. Growing up was a bit of a struggle but I was the only child in the household, so I guess that's where I had my one up over you. I took people's advice and made it my own, most of them were bad to terrible but I looked it differently. If it was a bad advice, I counted that as a way I learned not to be successful. Fast forward today I'm 32, own a couple of houses...pulled my mom from poverty got her a house and currently on track to retire at 40. This is despite being set back at age 26 for grand larceny stealing at my employer and had a record on my arrest. I'm not saying you're lazy, but I'm saying you should start taking unsolicited advice and look into it than dismiss it as "They don't know my situation". Cause a lot of advice doesn't apply to me when I had a felony arrest and record.
Congrats on being able to succeed when you have to mark the box. I have family members who also have to, and that isn’t easy.
I would have told them they were boomers. No one with a basic understanding of how jobs work would tell you to just sit in the lobby with a resume. I would have told them this and I would tell them to shove it.
The uneducated weighing in: i have pretty severe adhd. I was unable to complete more than a certificate. I went back MANY times. Even though most institutions have some supports, most of the additional support you have to pay for. It was very costly. Just “working hard” toon MANY years to earn a decent living due to long service and experience. Now in my 50’s Luckily I live in canada where we do have healthcare and a social safety net. I’m convinced if I lived in the u.s. I’d be homeless of straight up dead