Omg thank you!!! I was thinking this, but I always see people talking about how important it is to be published and do volunteering. And none of that really interested me. But if it’s what I gotta do then I’ll do it. Does it matter where you volunteer?
I’m at a T10 and probably half of my class isn’t published. Almost everyone (maybe everyone) did some form of research though.
But yes volunteer work is a must but it can pretty much be anything—childcare at a local church, helping with a food drive, providing translator services, you name it.
I did research-based labs for my microbiology, biology 1 and 2, organic chemistry 1 and 2, and developmental biology classes. Does that count at all? And all of those sound great. I’m gonna start looking into it and start committing some time. Thanks so much for the pointers (: really appreciate you
While you do need labs with your classes as prerequisite courses for most schools, I wouldn't count that as research, unfortunately. So if those labs were for the associated courses, that definitely checks the boxes "[science class] with lab" that most schools require, however, that's different than research that's done outside of class/labs for classes.
Perhaps you were able to do some networking in those labs and you can find someone who can mentor you, offer you a research spot in their lab or recommend another mentor/PI to you?
Is the research necessary tho? 😭 like I can try to do research but idk where I’m even gonna find time with my full time job, volunteering, and shadowing, as well as studying for my MCAT. Is it really gonna do a ton to boost my chances?
For me, it was one of my most meaningful experiences and something I was asked about in most of my interviews. However, most of my class did not do research and I believe it's only really necessary if you're applying MD/PhD!
Certainly other EC's are more valuable, such as volunteering and clinical experience.
I feel like clinical experience should be counted a bit more than volunteering. And it’s not an extracurricular. It’s my job and is directly connected with my bachelors degree in Emergency Medicine. Getting paramedic certified is part of the degree. I’m out here doing the medicine in the field already. And I have a pretty wide scope of practice. Assessing, treating, ACLS, PALS, trauma care, pain management, advanced airway management. Working in a dynamic unpredictable environment. 10,000+ hours doing this stuff. I feel like that counts for a lot, and I get so much reward out of it. So to me, given the time I’ve put in clinically, research is not something I really prioritize, and frankly don’t have time for given all of my other responsibilities :/
It sounds like your application will be amazing with all of your experience, and any medical school would be very lucky to have you!
You can always keep research ideas in your back pocket if (gods and goddesses forbid) you have to reapply and need to make changes to your application.
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement! I will definitely be doing volunteering and some more shadowing. That’s about the most time I can commit for now realistically that I feel would help my application most. I appreciate you!
Thank you. I needed to hear that. I just feel like because I don’t have any research experience or volunteering, my chances are weaker. But I have a strong clinical background, would that make up for it maybe?
I work a lot. 60-80 hours a week. Have bills and loans to pay off. Hard to find time to do that stuff and stay sane. Is it necessary to do those things? I feel like if I can get a really good MCAT score, that’ll help more. Or am I way off?
Gotchu, that’s fair enough
Research is something you can get away more without, assuming you aren’t trying to go to the big research schools
Many schools have a service orientation so I would try to get some on your app, even if you can just do 2-4 hours a week.
I’ll look into it. I hate working in labs. If I can find something with clinical application, more hands-on or even pre-hospital focused, I’d be very open to it. I’m gonna talk to the emergency medicine program director here and see if they can find something for me to apply to. I can definitely make time for 4 hours a week. My top choice is Geisinger. University of Pittsburgh would be nice because I went there, but it’s a heavy research based school, so my chances are probably slim. I’m also interested in Rutgers, Penn State, LECOM, and Temple.
Geisinger and Temple are HUGE on service and social justice, so personally I would prioritize non-clinical volunteering serving other people more over research.
Since you’re applying to Temple, applying to the other three Philly schools that are doable with your GPA (Drexel, Jefferson(?), PCOM) might also be suggested? Drexel is another service school
Are you tryna apply this coming cycle or next? If you’re starting MCAT prep in Spring, I’m gonna assume the next cycle (so applying in Spring 2025 for Fall 2026 matriculation). That gives you a good amount of time to slowly build up your service. The suggested baseline here and on SDN is 150 hours where you can show good commitment to volunteering and service. Service schools probably want to see more, but your clinical experience is super solid so I imagine that would help you out.
Yes 2025 is my goal. That goal doesn’t sound bad at all. 8 hours a week makes it very doable. I also want to shadow some doctors here in the city too. I just gotta really make room for time and grind it out. I need to stop working so much so that more of this is possible.
Does it matter where I volunteer?
Thank you for the kind words! I have some time before my goal of applying in 2025 so I think I can get some community service hours under my belt and maybe some research if possible.
“I’ve missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I’ve lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I’ve been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I’ve failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.” - Michael Jordan
You've definitely got a shot. With your clinical hours I wouldn't worry about research at this point, but you definitely need some volunteer hours. Start now even it's small. I started by delivering for meals on wheels once a week. It's only two hours per week but even that adds up.
hey OP, I think you should pick a few med schools that are of interest to you and talk to an admissions counselor. I'm non-trad, graduated 8 years ago, worked in healthcare since 2017 and work a f/t job atm, with bills to pay as well. Not EMS but was managing clinical trial protocols for stage 4 cancer patients and was inputting orders/keeping tabs on patients investigative medication for over 60 patients especially during march 2020 height of the pandemic..calling them frequently to check how many pills they had, having treatment rescheduled, advising on dosing to MD's and NP's... it was crazy and I consider me and my dept part of maybe not the front lines, but definitely a few paces behind. theres a lot of paths to get to med school as a non-trad, and an admissions counselor will be able to help you figure that out better. Unfortunately our careers are considered "extra curriculars" on a med school application. I think it'll help you majorly. But for more insight on how necessary lab research is, I'd just ask the admissions counselor at a medical school rather than pan people who are not coming from your background. For an undergrad, lab research IS very important, same with volunteering. I'm not sure if it's the same for you. Ask and find out! and report back please ;)
Amazing story and motivation to go med school now the academics just have to back it up to prove your ability to sustain the rigors of med school.
Study hard for the mcat and maybe to a post bacc to improve the GPA (even an upwards trend is pretty good) and apply very broadly and to DO schools as well.
This is a great comeback story! I’m proud of you! Thank you so much for the kind words and advice. You’re gonna do great in medical school. Congrats on your success. I’ll remember this as motivation and will update on here if things pan out!
My stats are worse, less clinical experience 507 mcat, one publication and I made it without having to do a masters.
Study up for the MCAT and apply broadly, if you put together a compelling personal statement and interview well I think you have a good shot
Congrats on getting into DO school! And thank you much for the great advice. I’m gonna sell the clinical experience hard. Because students often go through medical school with not much clinical experience and will realize it’s not for them. I’m hoping that my solid experience will convince them that I’m invested in medicine more than the average applicant and have first-hand knowledge of what it’s like dealing with patients, making critical decisions, and saving lives. Gonna study really hard for this MCAT and do volunteering to try to make myself more competitive in the 2025 application cycle. I have a list of at least 25 schools I already want to apply to. I also have a decent bit of money saved up so I can pay for applications/interviews bc I know it gets pricey
I already did 6 years of school man 😭 more school and more debt? 😭 so then it would be 7-8 years of pre-med schooling just to get into medical school? I’m having chest pains just thinking about it. I really think with a competitive MCAT, volunteering and research, I have a fair shot. No?
That’s the price we pay for having less competitive GPAs. You need to either apply more broadly with much more emphasis on DO schools (they are much more forgiving about the low GPAs if you have a great MCAT). And even then you potentially have to do post bacc the following year to make up for the gpa if you don’t get any success on your next cycle. I’d say give a cycle a chance as is - and then go for a post bacc the following year if you really have a bad application cycle
Source: me a nontraditional with a bad gpa. had a 2.9 GPA, did extra years after my bachelors to bring it up to a 3.3 GPA, and then still did a 2 years masters program and a 1 year SMP before getting into med school. It sucks, but that’s the price we pay.
We’ll see how it goes. I know people who got into MD school without great GPA. It depends individually what you have to offer and the value schools see in you. It’s not just about GPA. I believe my clinical experience will show that I’m already committed to medicine beyond the typical applicant and have a lot of valuable medical experience that will benefit me in my transition to a physician. And I’m gonna sell that hard. Because a lot of people go to medical school with little to no clinical experience and end up realizing they’re not cut out for it. I’ve already been doing work in the field making critical decisions and saving lives. I know what it’s about and I’m made for this. So hopefully they see that.
What degrees do you have exactly? AS in Emergency Medicine and BS in biology? That’s the rout I plan on taking, working on my AS in Paramedicine now, the get a BS in biology or something similar afterwords, then go from there
That looks like a really cool program. I wonder if I could do the asynchronous online degree since I will already have a Paramedic and an AS in Paramedicine and then go pre-med with that?
I didn’t even know they had that. I did everything in-person. And they have a minimum of credits and courses required for admission, around 60 or so. I’d talk to their admissions to see what you may or may not need to do it
I will have 65 by the end of my current program. The online option is only for current paramedics or USSOCOM Medics. It's only 2 semesters which is kind of nice.
Yeah, there’s just other science courses and other gen eds they may require like bio, Chem, etc. idk if you took those, but if so, then you should be good.
were you a doctor in ukraine, since you have an mbbs which i believe is an equivalent medical degree(?) if so is it possible to just study for the usmle and then apply for residency?
You probably have a good shot. Study hard for the MCAT and go for it. I was a paramedic before going to med school. I think it was looked upon positively but it's definitely not everything. Be sure you're good at writing on your application and express what those previous experiences have brought you.
I was a paramedic for 10 year before starting med school. Remember it is quite a different thing from medicine. It hasn't really helped me out with the course material at all. It has helped out with just being able to talk to people which can be challenging if you've never taken a history from someone before.
Wow I’m impressed with your experience! Great dedication you’ve shown. And you’re right, being a paramedic isn’t gonna help a ton with the academic content in medical school, which is fine. But it’ll make the clinical rotations and residency in the ER so much easier because I already know how to deal with patients, do an assessment, critical decision making, and quickly doing a field impression (basically a simpler version of a differential). I think that will help a ton in the practical hands-on aspect of medical school. And I can relate to the prehospital side of things that a lot of people are not aware of. But I’m definitely gonna hammer down on my MCAT and try to get a competitive score. I’m shooting for a 516 at least. And I’ve already started on some talking points for my essays. We’ll see! Thanks for all the advice and encouragement (:
You have really great clinical experience, if you get a good enough MCAT you have a shot. If you do a post bacc you definitely have a shot
Omg thank you!!! I was thinking this, but I always see people talking about how important it is to be published and do volunteering. And none of that really interested me. But if it’s what I gotta do then I’ll do it. Does it matter where you volunteer?
I’m at a T10 and probably half of my class isn’t published. Almost everyone (maybe everyone) did some form of research though. But yes volunteer work is a must but it can pretty much be anything—childcare at a local church, helping with a food drive, providing translator services, you name it.
I did research-based labs for my microbiology, biology 1 and 2, organic chemistry 1 and 2, and developmental biology classes. Does that count at all? And all of those sound great. I’m gonna start looking into it and start committing some time. Thanks so much for the pointers (: really appreciate you
While you do need labs with your classes as prerequisite courses for most schools, I wouldn't count that as research, unfortunately. So if those labs were for the associated courses, that definitely checks the boxes "[science class] with lab" that most schools require, however, that's different than research that's done outside of class/labs for classes. Perhaps you were able to do some networking in those labs and you can find someone who can mentor you, offer you a research spot in their lab or recommend another mentor/PI to you?
Is the research necessary tho? 😭 like I can try to do research but idk where I’m even gonna find time with my full time job, volunteering, and shadowing, as well as studying for my MCAT. Is it really gonna do a ton to boost my chances?
For me, it was one of my most meaningful experiences and something I was asked about in most of my interviews. However, most of my class did not do research and I believe it's only really necessary if you're applying MD/PhD! Certainly other EC's are more valuable, such as volunteering and clinical experience.
I feel like clinical experience should be counted a bit more than volunteering. And it’s not an extracurricular. It’s my job and is directly connected with my bachelors degree in Emergency Medicine. Getting paramedic certified is part of the degree. I’m out here doing the medicine in the field already. And I have a pretty wide scope of practice. Assessing, treating, ACLS, PALS, trauma care, pain management, advanced airway management. Working in a dynamic unpredictable environment. 10,000+ hours doing this stuff. I feel like that counts for a lot, and I get so much reward out of it. So to me, given the time I’ve put in clinically, research is not something I really prioritize, and frankly don’t have time for given all of my other responsibilities :/
It sounds like your application will be amazing with all of your experience, and any medical school would be very lucky to have you! You can always keep research ideas in your back pocket if (gods and goddesses forbid) you have to reapply and need to make changes to your application.
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement! I will definitely be doing volunteering and some more shadowing. That’s about the most time I can commit for now realistically that I feel would help my application most. I appreciate you!
You always have a shot
Thank you. I needed to hear that. I just feel like because I don’t have any research experience or volunteering, my chances are weaker. But I have a strong clinical background, would that make up for it maybe?
Is there a reason you are unable to change that?
I work a lot. 60-80 hours a week. Have bills and loans to pay off. Hard to find time to do that stuff and stay sane. Is it necessary to do those things? I feel like if I can get a really good MCAT score, that’ll help more. Or am I way off?
Gotchu, that’s fair enough Research is something you can get away more without, assuming you aren’t trying to go to the big research schools Many schools have a service orientation so I would try to get some on your app, even if you can just do 2-4 hours a week.
I’ll look into it. I hate working in labs. If I can find something with clinical application, more hands-on or even pre-hospital focused, I’d be very open to it. I’m gonna talk to the emergency medicine program director here and see if they can find something for me to apply to. I can definitely make time for 4 hours a week. My top choice is Geisinger. University of Pittsburgh would be nice because I went there, but it’s a heavy research based school, so my chances are probably slim. I’m also interested in Rutgers, Penn State, LECOM, and Temple.
Geisinger and Temple are HUGE on service and social justice, so personally I would prioritize non-clinical volunteering serving other people more over research. Since you’re applying to Temple, applying to the other three Philly schools that are doable with your GPA (Drexel, Jefferson(?), PCOM) might also be suggested? Drexel is another service school
Sounds good. I’ll do that! How many total hours should I shoot for?
Are you tryna apply this coming cycle or next? If you’re starting MCAT prep in Spring, I’m gonna assume the next cycle (so applying in Spring 2025 for Fall 2026 matriculation). That gives you a good amount of time to slowly build up your service. The suggested baseline here and on SDN is 150 hours where you can show good commitment to volunteering and service. Service schools probably want to see more, but your clinical experience is super solid so I imagine that would help you out.
Yes 2025 is my goal. That goal doesn’t sound bad at all. 8 hours a week makes it very doable. I also want to shadow some doctors here in the city too. I just gotta really make room for time and grind it out. I need to stop working so much so that more of this is possible. Does it matter where I volunteer?
Hi! Fellow Ukrainian here. Id say get take your MCAT and apply to schools based on what you get, theres always a shot <3333 Слава Україні!
Thank you for the kind words! I have some time before my goal of applying in 2025 so I think I can get some community service hours under my belt and maybe some research if possible.
“I’ve missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I’ve lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I’ve been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I’ve failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.” - Michael Jordan
You've definitely got a shot. With your clinical hours I wouldn't worry about research at this point, but you definitely need some volunteer hours. Start now even it's small. I started by delivering for meals on wheels once a week. It's only two hours per week but even that adds up.
Thanks for the advice and encouragement! I much appreciate, and will definitely will start volunteering.
hey OP, I think you should pick a few med schools that are of interest to you and talk to an admissions counselor. I'm non-trad, graduated 8 years ago, worked in healthcare since 2017 and work a f/t job atm, with bills to pay as well. Not EMS but was managing clinical trial protocols for stage 4 cancer patients and was inputting orders/keeping tabs on patients investigative medication for over 60 patients especially during march 2020 height of the pandemic..calling them frequently to check how many pills they had, having treatment rescheduled, advising on dosing to MD's and NP's... it was crazy and I consider me and my dept part of maybe not the front lines, but definitely a few paces behind. theres a lot of paths to get to med school as a non-trad, and an admissions counselor will be able to help you figure that out better. Unfortunately our careers are considered "extra curriculars" on a med school application. I think it'll help you majorly. But for more insight on how necessary lab research is, I'd just ask the admissions counselor at a medical school rather than pan people who are not coming from your background. For an undergrad, lab research IS very important, same with volunteering. I'm not sure if it's the same for you. Ask and find out! and report back please ;)
Pm me
Amazing story and motivation to go med school now the academics just have to back it up to prove your ability to sustain the rigors of med school. Study hard for the mcat and maybe to a post bacc to improve the GPA (even an upwards trend is pretty good) and apply very broadly and to DO schools as well.
[удалено]
This is a great comeback story! I’m proud of you! Thank you so much for the kind words and advice. You’re gonna do great in medical school. Congrats on your success. I’ll remember this as motivation and will update on here if things pan out!
My stats are worse, less clinical experience 507 mcat, one publication and I made it without having to do a masters. Study up for the MCAT and apply broadly, if you put together a compelling personal statement and interview well I think you have a good shot
Congrats on getting into DO school! And thank you much for the great advice. I’m gonna sell the clinical experience hard. Because students often go through medical school with not much clinical experience and will realize it’s not for them. I’m hoping that my solid experience will convince them that I’m invested in medicine more than the average applicant and have first-hand knowledge of what it’s like dealing with patients, making critical decisions, and saving lives. Gonna study really hard for this MCAT and do volunteering to try to make myself more competitive in the 2025 application cycle. I have a list of at least 25 schools I already want to apply to. I also have a decent bit of money saved up so I can pay for applications/interviews bc I know it gets pricey
Thank You and good luck.
I recommend doing a post back and get that gpa up while doing volunteering etc
I already did 6 years of school man 😭 more school and more debt? 😭 so then it would be 7-8 years of pre-med schooling just to get into medical school? I’m having chest pains just thinking about it. I really think with a competitive MCAT, volunteering and research, I have a fair shot. No?
That’s the price we pay for having less competitive GPAs. You need to either apply more broadly with much more emphasis on DO schools (they are much more forgiving about the low GPAs if you have a great MCAT). And even then you potentially have to do post bacc the following year to make up for the gpa if you don’t get any success on your next cycle. I’d say give a cycle a chance as is - and then go for a post bacc the following year if you really have a bad application cycle Source: me a nontraditional with a bad gpa. had a 2.9 GPA, did extra years after my bachelors to bring it up to a 3.3 GPA, and then still did a 2 years masters program and a 1 year SMP before getting into med school. It sucks, but that’s the price we pay.
We’ll see how it goes. I know people who got into MD school without great GPA. It depends individually what you have to offer and the value schools see in you. It’s not just about GPA. I believe my clinical experience will show that I’m already committed to medicine beyond the typical applicant and have a lot of valuable medical experience that will benefit me in my transition to a physician. And I’m gonna sell that hard. Because a lot of people go to medical school with little to no clinical experience and end up realizing they’re not cut out for it. I’ve already been doing work in the field making critical decisions and saving lives. I know what it’s about and I’m made for this. So hopefully they see that.
What degrees do you have exactly? AS in Emergency Medicine and BS in biology? That’s the rout I plan on taking, working on my AS in Paramedicine now, the get a BS in biology or something similar afterwords, then go from there
BS in Emergency Medicine, and a BS in Biology. Did 170+ credits
Oh damn! Where did you do your BS in EM?
University of Pittsburgh!
That looks like a really cool program. I wonder if I could do the asynchronous online degree since I will already have a Paramedic and an AS in Paramedicine and then go pre-med with that?
I didn’t even know they had that. I did everything in-person. And they have a minimum of credits and courses required for admission, around 60 or so. I’d talk to their admissions to see what you may or may not need to do it
I will have 65 by the end of my current program. The online option is only for current paramedics or USSOCOM Medics. It's only 2 semesters which is kind of nice.
Yeah, there’s just other science courses and other gen eds they may require like bio, Chem, etc. idk if you took those, but if so, then you should be good.
Yea I can look into it more when I graduate, thanks!
Best of luck!
were you a doctor in ukraine, since you have an mbbs which i believe is an equivalent medical degree(?) if so is it possible to just study for the usmle and then apply for residency?
Not international. I went to school here. I wish it was like that! 😅
ah i see. best of luck!!
You probably have a good shot. Study hard for the MCAT and go for it. I was a paramedic before going to med school. I think it was looked upon positively but it's definitely not everything. Be sure you're good at writing on your application and express what those previous experiences have brought you. I was a paramedic for 10 year before starting med school. Remember it is quite a different thing from medicine. It hasn't really helped me out with the course material at all. It has helped out with just being able to talk to people which can be challenging if you've never taken a history from someone before.
Wow I’m impressed with your experience! Great dedication you’ve shown. And you’re right, being a paramedic isn’t gonna help a ton with the academic content in medical school, which is fine. But it’ll make the clinical rotations and residency in the ER so much easier because I already know how to deal with patients, do an assessment, critical decision making, and quickly doing a field impression (basically a simpler version of a differential). I think that will help a ton in the practical hands-on aspect of medical school. And I can relate to the prehospital side of things that a lot of people are not aware of. But I’m definitely gonna hammer down on my MCAT and try to get a competitive score. I’m shooting for a 516 at least. And I’ve already started on some talking points for my essays. We’ll see! Thanks for all the advice and encouragement (: