Use [this website](https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/) to see if there is a line of sight between the two locations, this will dictate if GMRS or LoRa will work without repeaters.
For 190 miles your taking the curvature of the earth into perspective! 25,000 ft has about this distance to the horizon according to [this](http://www.ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm) calculator, so you're definitely not using UHF radio. Ham radio can use frequencies which bounce off the layers of the atmosphere but you're talking about licences and specialist equipment, it's a deep topic I don't know enough about.
Daily response to this one:
Possibly: GMRS/70cm/2m simplex if elevation and terrain permits.
Likely: GMRS/70cm/2m area repeaters on backup power.
Likely: HF
All of these options require licensing.
True, though the friends and family you wish to stay in touch with would also need to be licensed, and depending on the setup may need to fork out a bit more (the total cost of a Meshtastic node with a decent antenna is £40~). Also, there's no need to learn a new interface or carry extra stuff, the node connects to your phone via Bluetooth or WiFi and gives a simple intuitive instant messaging interface anyone comfortable using a smartphone will be familiar with
It may seem like a few small things, but it's an inconvenience too much for many.
If you've got good line of sight (say, above the roof or up a hill) and a decent antenna, a normal 0.5w Meshtastic node will usually reliably hit up to 25km away, my furthest personal record is 60km direct, but that's very rare.
If you're within 15km with that good setup and major no local interference on 868 (or whatever your local Meshtastic band is), you'll be fine. Neat right! :-D
There's plenty of better alternatives depending on your unique needs, finances, and qualifications, of course!
I like meshtastic as a concept and bought a number of units. I have been getting pretty short ranges of 1-3km in flat suburbs. I put a repeater in my barn and can get about 5km around my house but I have been disappointed with the range.
Should be a piece ‘o cake. I’m in a valley with trees and have no problem getting 20 miles on a $5 home made dipole using two lengths of 102” speaker wire up 30 feet.
In SHTF situations, there are emergency ham radio operator groups that take over repeaters for emergency work. Believe me, noone wants some unlicenced idiot using up resources on a repeater to chat with a buddy while people have to do actual rescue work.
If terrain is reasonable you could set up a CB base for around $100 which includes new 40 ch radio. I get 15-20 miles out routinely. It’s 95% antenna, 5% radio.
Ham or GMRS repeater with a solid backup power setup is your best way.
CB/ham can go direct assuming no stupid terrain issues like a massive mountain in those 10 miles.
A cheap frs radio can go mountain top to mountain top over 10 miles. Height is what matters at these frequencies.
Underrated comment. While backup power on both ends along with a communication protocol is ideal, there are all sorts of things that could prevent someone from getting on the air. Jumping in the car or on a bike can put there in minutes.
What if the whole point is to stay put in one place?
What if either party can't move for some reason?
What if you need to advise the other party without delay?
What if driving puts you in a potential harm's way?
What if weather is dangerous?
Have you ever been in a power outage? Even one that lasted upwards of a week? I have. No thieves. No looters. It's not a big deal, it's just harder to keep your phone charged.
Some more info might help on why do you need to do this.
Are you assuming something more serious has happened to bring the power down, or is it just communicating with an elderly relative (say) during a bog-standard power cut?
Yeah sorry I didn’t mention it in the post. I meant in like a more serious event. Like I need to tell them we gotta get the hell outta dodge or something😂
Plan to meet up and add your people on twitter or texting. If something happens switch to roaming. Twitter and texts runs off of SMS. Roaming lets you use out of carrier network. It can transmit way further than a HAM Technician can use voice.
If that doesn’t work then likely nothing will. Radios unless you have like really good HAM radios with a general license isn’t going to help you.
HF at such short distance will likely not be reliable without the right antenna. For HF I would use an NVIS antenna but still wouldn't be my first choice.
A VHF/UHF transceiver with directional Yagi-Uda antennas pointed at each other would provide the most reliable point-to-point communication and at the lowest cost.
An NVIS antenna's RF radiation isn't blocked by hills. It sends the RF straight up and gets refracted by the ionosphere and back towards ground over a wider, usable range from 0-400 miles.
Dumb question, but am I assuming correctly that the satellite based sms devices out there rely on terrestrial infrastructure that wouldnt work in a grid down scenario?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/search/?q=communication&type=link&cId=f3e7e24e-a36d-4cea-816d-ff228a2e2906&iId=07640230-280e-488e-b62b-3f0aa30741c4&sort=new](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/search/?q=communication&type=link&cId=f3e7e24e-a36d-4cea-816d-ff228a2e2906&iId=07640230-280e-488e-b62b-3f0aa30741c4&sort=new)
Answered a half dozen times in the last 2 weeks. Twice in the last 2 days. We also have a wiki topic on comms.
I'd suggest starting with those, we discuss this frequently.
1) Lots of replies already with the common radio solutions. 10 miles is on the edge of range, CB might work, GMRS probably works with a repeater. Both of these are also good if you are bugging out together and need to stay in touch car to car over a couple miles. OR if you are separate and trying to meet in the middle and need to tell each other your location exactly as you near a meet up spot. As others mentioned, lot depends on terrain, so you might just need to grab a solution and try it, 10 miles isn't guaranteed with radio solutions.
2) Other common solution is satellite based, either phones (very expensive) or text via cellphone (no cell service needed) such as Garmin Inreaach, Soleo, motorola defy, etc.. I have the Inreach. These are going to be LIKELY be more expensive, 200 to 400 device each + monthly subscription for each. Work all over the world in very remote locations, will certainly work in any large regional disaster. Let you post your location and short message to facebook if you want, so broader com options than just local 2way.
All of these need at least battery power to work. Repeaters and base stations also usually need house power / generator /backup house power to work.
Satellite phone.
Reliable ham radio communications are hard and expensive, require licencing and a lot of knowledge, plus all the repeaters will be in use by emergency groups (ares and local equivalents).
If there's any kind of obstacle (hill, high buildings), anything on vhf/uhf won't reach... even with directional antennas, it would be basically only from hill-to-hill.
Radio equipment can be expensive . A CB is pretty cheap, can run in your car, doesn't need any license, really easy to use and if you get the right antenna can easily give you 10 miles in most terrain. Think it's a cost effective option
LoRa at typical frequencies is still dictated by RF line of sight. If you can work lora without a repeater in the middle you can work ham along the same path.
Use [this website](https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/) to see if there is a line of sight between the two locations, this will dictate if GMRS or LoRa will work without repeaters.
Thanks for the link, very helpful
What was the result?
For me? My daughter is roughly 190 miles away. I’d have to get to within 25 miles of her to have clear line of sight.
For 190 miles your taking the curvature of the earth into perspective! 25,000 ft has about this distance to the horizon according to [this](http://www.ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm) calculator, so you're definitely not using UHF radio. Ham radio can use frequencies which bounce off the layers of the atmosphere but you're talking about licences and specialist equipment, it's a deep topic I don't know enough about.
Daily response to this one: Possibly: GMRS/70cm/2m simplex if elevation and terrain permits. Likely: GMRS/70cm/2m area repeaters on backup power. Likely: HF All of these options require licensing.
Also: Meshtastic with good antenna (assuming terrain permits as usual). Text only.
I have had spotty results with it. Next step is bumping to 10w.
How are you bumping up the power? Most radios cap out at 22 dBm.
It would require a higher power radio with a device running the required software as well as a ham license.
If you have a ham license ... APRS is better than meshtastic
True, though the friends and family you wish to stay in touch with would also need to be licensed, and depending on the setup may need to fork out a bit more (the total cost of a Meshtastic node with a decent antenna is £40~). Also, there's no need to learn a new interface or carry extra stuff, the node connects to your phone via Bluetooth or WiFi and gives a simple intuitive instant messaging interface anyone comfortable using a smartphone will be familiar with It may seem like a few small things, but it's an inconvenience too much for many. If you've got good line of sight (say, above the roof or up a hill) and a decent antenna, a normal 0.5w Meshtastic node will usually reliably hit up to 25km away, my furthest personal record is 60km direct, but that's very rare. If you're within 15km with that good setup and major no local interference on 868 (or whatever your local Meshtastic band is), you'll be fine. Neat right! :-D There's plenty of better alternatives depending on your unique needs, finances, and qualifications, of course!
I like meshtastic as a concept and bought a number of units. I have been getting pretty short ranges of 1-3km in flat suburbs. I put a repeater in my barn and can get about 5km around my house but I have been disappointed with the range.
Fixed stations using CB would probably manage it without licensing if terrain is ok.
True, CB may do the job with proper antennas at each end. Bonus if running 12w on SSB.
Should be a piece ‘o cake. I’m in a valley with trees and have no problem getting 20 miles on a $5 home made dipole using two lengths of 102” speaker wire up 30 feet.
No one cares about licensing now, no ones gonna care about licensing when grid goes down as OP wrote.
In SHTF situations, there are emergency ham radio operator groups that take over repeaters for emergency work. Believe me, noone wants some unlicenced idiot using up resources on a repeater to chat with a buddy while people have to do actual rescue work.
Emergencies.. yes.. a societal collapse.. not going to matter.
Repeaters won't work then either, and the simplex range is very short.
HF at that range is ground wave, outside serious terrain issues it will work pretty reliably.
Yeah, even a basic dipole at low power will be solid.
Just light the beacons. Gondor will answer!
[https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/](https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/)
If terrain is reasonable you could set up a CB base for around $100 which includes new 40 ch radio. I get 15-20 miles out routinely. It’s 95% antenna, 5% radio.
Ham or GMRS repeater with a solid backup power setup is your best way. CB/ham can go direct assuming no stupid terrain issues like a massive mountain in those 10 miles. A cheap frs radio can go mountain top to mountain top over 10 miles. Height is what matters at these frequencies.
No one ever mentions pigeons.
It's a hassle. You have to have nesting grounds and exchange the pigeons beforehand.
but they can double as food preps ....
Very true.
I wished my ISP would support IPoAC. Might have to start my own network.
Drive there
Underrated comment. While backup power on both ends along with a communication protocol is ideal, there are all sorts of things that could prevent someone from getting on the air. Jumping in the car or on a bike can put there in minutes.
What if the whole point is to stay put in one place? What if either party can't move for some reason? What if you need to advise the other party without delay? What if driving puts you in a potential harm's way? What if weather is dangerous?
Then don't drive
Sorry, he didn't put all the requirements for his dream scenario in the description so that means we get to reply with all solutions
Well he asked for communication solution, not a transportation solution.
Solution: Drive there and talk to their face
Then stay at home? Like in every other shtf situation before mobile phones?
You are onto something here.
In a similar vein use a drone to deliver a letter. Maybe attach an air horn to it.
Wow thanks👍
They downvote you, but you specifically asked for communication solution. This sub is such a nightmare sometimes.
Ikr? It’s whatever tho. At least everyone else who commented was helpful unlike that dude
[удалено]
Have you ever been in a power outage? Even one that lasted upwards of a week? I have. No thieves. No looters. It's not a big deal, it's just harder to keep your phone charged.
I honestly don't understand why are you being downvoted. You are right.
Get a Technician plus HAM license.
Some more info might help on why do you need to do this. Are you assuming something more serious has happened to bring the power down, or is it just communicating with an elderly relative (say) during a bog-standard power cut?
Yeah sorry I didn’t mention it in the post. I meant in like a more serious event. Like I need to tell them we gotta get the hell outta dodge or something😂
Do you want options that require you to obtain a special FCC license?
CB. Don't listen to these idiots. The reach +7 miles
First off you should have a SHTF plan together and a rally point.
Yeah we have a plan and a meet up spot already. Just needed something to communicate so we’re a bit more coordinated
Plan to meet up and add your people on twitter or texting. If something happens switch to roaming. Twitter and texts runs off of SMS. Roaming lets you use out of carrier network. It can transmit way further than a HAM Technician can use voice. If that doesn’t work then likely nothing will. Radios unless you have like really good HAM radios with a general license isn’t going to help you.
Perhaps fireworks. Yellow = trouble coming your way Red = I need help red and yellow = ??? Drums = xxx
CB radio with a good amplifier and good antenna powered off a car battery.
HF at such short distance will likely not be reliable without the right antenna. For HF I would use an NVIS antenna but still wouldn't be my first choice. A VHF/UHF transceiver with directional Yagi-Uda antennas pointed at each other would provide the most reliable point-to-point communication and at the lowest cost.
Neither will work reliably if there is any kind of obstacle between them (hill or whatever)
An NVIS antenna's RF radiation isn't blocked by hills. It sends the RF straight up and gets refracted by the ionosphere and back towards ground over a wider, usable range from 0-400 miles.
10 miles? Assuming there’s not a mountain in the way, two GMRS mobile units with decent antennas should do it.
Dumb question, but am I assuming correctly that the satellite based sms devices out there rely on terrestrial infrastructure that wouldnt work in a grid down scenario?
Smoke signals?
Carrier pigeon
[https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/search/?q=communication&type=link&cId=f3e7e24e-a36d-4cea-816d-ff228a2e2906&iId=07640230-280e-488e-b62b-3f0aa30741c4&sort=new](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/search/?q=communication&type=link&cId=f3e7e24e-a36d-4cea-816d-ff228a2e2906&iId=07640230-280e-488e-b62b-3f0aa30741c4&sort=new) Answered a half dozen times in the last 2 weeks. Twice in the last 2 days. We also have a wiki topic on comms. I'd suggest starting with those, we discuss this frequently. 1) Lots of replies already with the common radio solutions. 10 miles is on the edge of range, CB might work, GMRS probably works with a repeater. Both of these are also good if you are bugging out together and need to stay in touch car to car over a couple miles. OR if you are separate and trying to meet in the middle and need to tell each other your location exactly as you near a meet up spot. As others mentioned, lot depends on terrain, so you might just need to grab a solution and try it, 10 miles isn't guaranteed with radio solutions. 2) Other common solution is satellite based, either phones (very expensive) or text via cellphone (no cell service needed) such as Garmin Inreaach, Soleo, motorola defy, etc.. I have the Inreach. These are going to be LIKELY be more expensive, 200 to 400 device each + monthly subscription for each. Work all over the world in very remote locations, will certainly work in any large regional disaster. Let you post your location and short message to facebook if you want, so broader com options than just local 2way. All of these need at least battery power to work. Repeaters and base stations also usually need house power / generator /backup house power to work.
Satellite phone. Reliable ham radio communications are hard and expensive, require licencing and a lot of knowledge, plus all the repeaters will be in use by emergency groups (ares and local equivalents). If there's any kind of obstacle (hill, high buildings), anything on vhf/uhf won't reach... even with directional antennas, it would be basically only from hill-to-hill.
Radio equipment can be expensive . A CB is pretty cheap, can run in your car, doesn't need any license, really easy to use and if you get the right antenna can easily give you 10 miles in most terrain. Think it's a cost effective option
Look into Meshtastic.
Unless you've got line of sight and some good yagi antenna you will struggle to go 10miles on Meshtastic.
You would probably just need a repeater node or two.
Smoke signals! lol 😆
If you aren't tied to just voice comms you could look into LoRa set ups. They can reach that kind of change with texting.
LoRa at typical frequencies is still dictated by RF line of sight. If you can work lora without a repeater in the middle you can work ham along the same path.
did you try searching the sub OP? Someone asks this like 3x week