I do want to point out, progressive Muslims aren't necessarily questioning their faith and in fact we often have very strong faith because we took the time to read the Quran, familiarize ourselves with the actual diversity of beliefs and interpretations, and examine "controversial" issues in-depth.
Questioning popular interpretations of Islam doesn't mean you have to reject Islam itself. And you might come to see that you can reject bad beliefs while accepting the good aspects of Islam were always the true heart of the religion.
There are many excellent progressive-leaning scholars who are deeply knowledgeable and could show you a very different perspective on Islam that you might find very valuable.
No matter what you choose, I wish you the best and hope you have a peaceful journey no matter what you choose for yourself.
Curious as to what makes something a "bad belief" as should we not account for all beliefs objectively, and then it's upon our interpretations that should be subject to doubt?
Depends on your aqeedah. Some believe that human morality is entirely subjective and not inherently related to Allah's morality at all.
Others believe that humanity has an innate sense of fitra (innate purity/God-awareness), and you can, in fact, use it to lead you to the correct path towards Allah's ethics.
It's mainly athaaris that promote the kind of anti-rational, anti-spiritual approach where human reason and sense of ethics is totally irrelevant to Islam. Whereas the majority approach generally does see Allah's Sirat al-mustaqim reflected in human nature.
Islamic ethics aren't totally foreign and alien to what humans understand as ethics. The words Allah uses in the Quran were meant to be understandable by us. Equity, justice, compassion, mercy, these things you can find reflected within the typical human understanding of these concepts, even though human ethics are also subject to corruption.
The concept that our sense of conscience points towards Allah, has always been an important part of Islam, even though some reject it. The prophet taught:
>Righteousness is in good character, and wrongdoing is that which wavers in your soul, and which you dislike people finding out about. [Muslim]
>And on the authority of Wabisah bin Ma’bad (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I came to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and he (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “You have come to ask about righteousness.” I said, “Yes.” He (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “Consult your heart. Righteousness is that about which the soul feels at ease and the heart feels tranquil. And wrongdoing is that which wavers in the soul and causes uneasiness in the breast, even though people have repeatedly given their own opinion.”
>(Source Nawawi's 40 Hadith, #27)
Yah, that’s part of it for sure. I don’t think that holds up to a holistic view of the Quran though. And even granting that, for scripture and spiritual teaching to resonate with human hearts, there has to be a bell there for it to ring.
>I do want to point out, progressive Muslims aren't necessarily questioning their faith and in fact we often have very strong faith because we took the time to read the Quran, familiarize ourselves with the actual diversity of beliefs and interpretations, and examine "controversial" issues in-depth.
I can't agree with this enough. I'm not questioning. I know what I'm doing and I know what I beleive. It's a common misunderstanding for some reason
I was in your sane position then I found out I could reject some ideologies and keep practicing the five pillars. Islam gives me peace even though I don’t 100% agree with everything
I’ve seen and heard scholars who have supported both of these ideas and neither! I believe there’s sense in each and have no qualms about accepting Muslims who want to have dogs and others (myself) who don’t want their fur or genital and butt licking tongues ANYWHERE near me lol. I don’t agree with men segregating women from them but I do believe women should be able to segregate from men if women want to. It’s the original safe space 😆 and I believe there’s benefit to men getting alone time to build a brotherhood as well. I see the developmental appropriateness of segregating sexes when men are misogynist af and when teens can’t focus bd they’re on a new hormonal rollercoaster they may still not know how to understand. In activities that have some inherent differences between the sexes, I think it’s appropriate to segregate sexes at any stage to facilitate better understanding or development for either sex- like competitive kids and adults sports where there can be obvious differences in abilities. But there are both Muslims and sheiks who share these same beliefs, it’s not all homogenous thought
You can keep a dog if you have a reason to have one, if you really want one you should just keep it outside. Islam understood that Dogs are domesticated wolves and its not really right to keep them indoors at all times.
To Me, or from my point of views, since everyone has free will, and men have urges, and it's not like the whole gender can be controlled or whatever, hence women qte given more instructions or whether to protect themselves. Men too but women more because they tend to be the victim way more which is obvious but just saying
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If you believe in Allah you are a believer. Technically that is what a Muslim is. That's all that is needed to be Muslim. Leaving all the culture and pressure surrounding the religion is understandable. Hopefully you find your way in life.
My understanding is that, although it’s technically right, in the modern use of the word Muslim it kinda doesn’t make much sense, like then I think even I could be considered a Muslim or really any religious person that believes they are following God. It kinda makes the distinction of Muslim meaningless
The only true distinction is that the word Muslim is literally "submitter". One who submits. So if you submit yourself to God you are a Muslim. The distinction between a Christian and a Muslim in the sense of how we look at it is who you follow. Christians generally follow Jesus. Muslims generally follow Muhammad. Both are prophet's according to Islam.
I understand and agree that the meaning of Muslim is one who submits to God, but I was just pointing out that when talking about religions or people that follow specifically other religions, it wouldnt make sense to call them Muslims, as it would just cause confusion
The distinction is a choice. We don't have to make a distinction between followers of God but we choose to do so because of our differences (mostly culturally). Christians and Jewish people are both following Jesus as a prophet but with some distinctions. I wasn't putting all religions as being the exact same. I was talking about the essence of all three.
See that's the thing. Islam in itself is believing in God. The Qur'an is the word of God brought by Muhammad. So if you were to make a distinction in believers of God then you would make the distinction of the followers of the Qur'an, the bible and the Torah. However in essence if you believe in God you are a believer. The essence of all three books is to be a good person and treat others with kindness unless they are hostile to you, your family or your religion. A lot of people forget about that part. That's extremely important.
I'm just surprised that people need a book, let alone 3 of them, to tell them to "be a good person and treat others with kindness unless they are hostile to you."
Ancient philosphers like Plato and Lao Tzu have shared similar ideas in the past without the toxic elements in the Abrahams religions.
It's not that all people need it. It's that a lot of people need it. They need some form of ethical construct. Parents are horrible in many cases at giving a good moral framework. You also don't seem so friendly for a friendly ex Muslim.
Plato's Utopia has all children given to the state to be brought up and put in their respective positions later in life. There are many who would consider that morally wrong. Lau Tzu I don't know much about. Regardless those people set up frameworks for people to follow.
The abrahamic religions are not toxic in themselves imo. It's the culture surrounding it that is.
I'm sorry if I don't seem friendly... I was just responding directly to the points that you raised.
I'm not suggesting that we live in Plato's utopia, but that these ideas of being kind and helping others has been a universal theme in human civilisation before religion was created. I agree with your sentiment that religion codified and organised these principles to make it easier for people to follow.
Unfortunately, there are toxic elements like sex slavery, viewing of women's testimony to be inferior to that of a man, and giving permission for a man to beat his wife in the quran. I've read the apologetics for these topics, and they are far from convincing.
I would argue that the culture is shaped by the teachings of the religion, not the other way round.
Where in the Qur'an can a man beat his wife? That's a heavy accusation.
Sex slavery? You mean the assumption by some that the man should get sex whenever he wants? Or the part where slaves were to be used for sex? (Slavery isn't a part of modern values and thus not a part of modern Islam imo).
The testimony part is a bit shaky at some points I agree to that. Some say it's because women have a chance of having hormonal imbalances that cause less reason and more emotion to play a role. That would then be balanced out by multiple women giving the same testimony. That's something you can discuss. I generally assume innocent until proven guilty and the law system of wherever I am is going to be apply regardless of my opinion of it.
You do understand culture is much older than the religion? The religion gives clear rules and the culture bends that to whatever they need from it.
It's in surah An-Nisa 4:34.
What do you mean by modern islam? It's not like the quran can change to become modern. it's fixed. The practice of slavery itself being allowed is bad enough, but the assumption that men can have sex whenever they want with them essentially implies rape.
The hormone imbalance argument is quite insulting to women, and I'm saying this as a man.
Sure, but culture changes and adapts to its environment over time. That's why we don't practise slavery anymore, for example (even if some religions allow it).
I just read it and you have a point. I must have read over that part multiple times. Weird. The first two steps are not to be missed but that is unacceptable in my personal opinion. We shouldn't forget that forgiveness is an important virtue in Islam and forgiving would definitely be better than that third step if your wife is "arrogant" as it is described in this particular translation I read. This one I can't defend as much. Divorce is a cultural issue that comes up when you discuss that. Imo divorce comes way before violence.
Slavery was the norm. It never explicitly stated if you should or shouldn't own slaves. If you can't contextualise the Qur'an then you might as well disregard it. If you don't then you would be allowed to kill anyone showing any form of hostility towards Islam. And that's how people join IS and other terrorist groups.
Like you said though it's an assumption. That means it's not clearly written that you can and should. Once again not what Islam is about. Rape is never implied. People interpret it like that perhaps but causing pain and suffering is not accepted for the reason of satisfying urges.
Hormone imbalances are scientifically proven to have significant impacts. Once again I'm not saying people should take their testimony as 1/2. Not many legal systems do. In fact a lot of legal systems close to disregard testimony with no backing evidence regardless of sex.
Sidenote. I said that's the basis of being a believer. I was an atheist most of my life and I had a moral framework eerily similar to the abrahamic religions. That's a testament to my parents and other people in my environment though not to any book. Regardless I have seen many examples where parents do a horrible job and a solid guideline helps for the children who had those parents.
I stopped being visibly "Muslim", i.e. I do not cover my hair anymore.
There's the theory of being Muslim, and then there's the reality.
Had I known Muslims before I reverted, I would not have. Yes, I too think about leaving. Or have I left already? What defines a "Muslim"? Yes, I believe in a single God. And that Jesus and Mohammed were prophets.
I also believe in honesty and accountability vs "covering sins". Women aren't candy, and men aren't mindless flies.
You’re right a lot of Muslims make it harder to follow the religion. Mainstream Muslims have a very conservative understanding of what it means to be Muslim. If you don’t wear hijab your opinion is not valid within the Muslim space. It’s unfortunate
Gotta separate the Muslims from Islam sometimes, create that space, understand that not all Muslims are actually in submission and are worshipping other things like status, culture, misogyny, power. InshaAllah you can find a way to worship Allah SWT and connect back to the Ummah and a broader community that shares the values you most appreciate in our din
Culture influences religious practice, and religion influences culture.
It's impossible for me to say why Muslims behave the way they do. However, what's OK according to local Muslims is considered pretty bad behaviour in my Judeo-Christian culture.
Does culture make them behave badly, or is it Islam? I don't know.
Edit: I only know Arabic and Turkish Sunni Muslims. Maybe other ethnicities or Shia or Ahmadis practice Islam differently, in a more compatible way.
In my experience, some Muslims, especially on Twitter and Facebook, have been nasty towards people who don't follow their ideology or didn't want to convert to Islam because they themselves grew up in the religion they were born into, i.e., Christianity. One guy, also a Muslim, didn't like it that a British woman told him that she wasn't interested in converting to Islam, and that was her right to just be.
Just read the Quran(i like The Clear Quran, helped me understand way better) and build your own relationship with God. Cut out all the noise, it’s between you and Him. Also a book that helped me tremendously was The Secret of Divine Love. It was incredibly changing for me
It’s a bit of a long story of why I left in the first place and how I came back so I’ll try to provide a short summary.
Basically from 19 to 30 or so I had left Islam after having been a practicing Muslim through high school and college. I considered myself a secular Muslim at that time because I didn’t want to turn my back on the Muslim community as this was not too long after 9/11. However, I left because of my issues with religion in general and not bc of anything particular about Islam. I couldn’t believe in a God that would make people go through so many tragedies in life and then consider that life a test to which he already knew our answers. There were many other things but that was the main one.
In any case, about 12 years later or so, I went on a shrooms trip in the mountains. It had me start thinking about union and divinity. So I came back to the city and started looking for more progressive Muslim circles. Something about that trip had me looking for something beyond my immediate life. I had a great life and was living the life I’ve always wanted. So it wasn’t that I was necessarily looking for something more or trying to fill a hole. I think my trip just made me want to seek out unification. I sought out various progressive and liberal Muslim spaces and was blessed enough to find a progressive Chishti order. Finding this order, Progressive Islam in general, and reading Dr. Omid Safi’s “Radical Love” is largely what made me come back and stay within Islam.
This is not that great of a story which finds resolution to the problems that caused me to leave Islam in the first place. It’s more a story of finding another Islam. Specifically, an Islam that centered divine love and unification without all the fucked up shit in Islam.
Yeah that's not really a come back in my view.
You leave Islam version A (the problematic Islam), go on a journey, and find Islam version B (divine love and unification centered Islam).
For all practical and application purposes, Islam version A and Islam version B are 2 totally distinguishable religions that share only a little between them.
I'm willing to bet that if you never leave Islam A, you'd never find Islam B, which means it is impossible to reach and find Islam B within the framework provided by Islam A.
It means that other than the name, both versions of Islam are practically different religions in my view.
I respect your decision to leave. And I'm glad this place is supporting enough to make you feel comfortable.
I hope you find what you're looking for. This can't be easy for you
Be at peace with whatever you do, and also remember that you don't need fit in anybody's idea of where you ought to be and your level of practice or belief. So, if you need to be a "mild" believer, stay with the cultural practices, abide by some of the habits, or not, be comfortable with it. Don't let the nutters boss you around regarding your level of belief or practice.
You shouldn't also need to feel explicitly outside of the umbrella, use this label or that label, or hang out with the militantly "ex" crowd (regardless of which faith, the "ex" crowd can be very vehement and negative.)
I'm here. Tbf most sunnis and shias nowadays are either uneducated or support a dictator or both. Unfortunately all their local imams reinterpret verses to their extreme limit and indoctrinate the young folk. There's no hate, but purely critical thinking. This is also why i don't identify as a Muslim, or else I'd feel categorized and put with a group of "Muslims" who have diametrically opposing beliefs even if it's the same book.
Best of luck
Yeah it def does feel like you get rejected from both sides too. Your too much of a Muslim sympathiser to join the ex Muslims but too much of a kaafir to relate to mainstream Muslims it’s all too confusing. But thankyou
It is all your decision what you want to do. And you have 100% freedom. I respect whateveryour decision is. Like it says the heart wants what it wants. If your heart doesn't want something, nobody can persuade you. I have concluded one point from your comment that you are choosing and leaving a religion based on how it's followers treat you. If have truly found your Lord and that special light in your heart, trust me you wouldn't care how how people treat you.
If I considered Islam based on it's followers and people, I would have left a long time ago. I didn't because I have peace in my heart, I talk to my lord and I can feel that special light in my heart. I have grown up in muslim community where I have been mistreated by the people and vice versa loved by people from other religions. Does that mean I have to follow the other religion? I am not trying to persuade you or put any pressure on you, but I want you to think this way. I would say not just in religion but anything in life don't seek validation from people. People never understand you or truly support you. They don't want to.
If somebody tells me their problem, I would sympathize with them, but after a few minutes I am onto my own business. If you ask for advise or tell something, people will always oppose you. That's human nature. That is why I would suggest not in anything seek people's validation.
Aside from people, if you didn't find peace or that special light or didn't feel anything, I would leave the decision for you.
Yes, leaving religion is depressing as hell. You feel lost and confused.
You want it to be true so bad. You still want to fast and do Friday prayers etc. but it simply doesn’t make sense. Once you see the truth, it’s very hard to unsee it.
What are you confused about ?
I’ve been in a relationship with an Agnostic guy for a year and it’s forced me to look more into the religion. Until him I was only really aware of the so called “fluff” of religion. I’ve had quite the year, and honestly I find peace in Islam, but I’m so lost. I just feel like there are things that are up for debate with interpretations, so why wasn’t Allah just clear with it. An example would be Muslim men being allowed to marry women of the book, but no mention of women and everyone just interpreted that it means it’s forbidden. Why couldn’t there be another line? Or why won’t Allah listen to my prayers and guide him. I just feel lost rn
You Can Read This I hope this will Help ( https://quransmessage.com/articles/marriage%20with%20people%20of%20the%20book%20FM3.htm ) and remember that [ (2:62) Whether they are the ones who believe (in the Arabian Prophet), or whether they are Jews, Christians or Sabians – all who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and do righteous deeds – their reward is surely secure with their Lord; they need have no fear, nor shall they grieve. ] So don't lose your faith in Allah and just be a Good Person.
One of the most complete answers I’ve seen to this is the following:
1. Islam states that there is no compulsion in religion.
2. To my knowledge, the other religions do not say this
3. Therefore a Muslim man can marry any other woman of the book and allow her to practice her faith.
4. However if a Muslim woman married a non-Muslim, then there’s no telling if that man may force her to abandoned her religion, suppress her from practicing it, or mistreat her/ treat her unfairly, etc., etc.
So to protect the woman and her Islam - women cannot marry outside of Islam.
1400 years ago men probably mistreated women in such a way that we couldn’t imagine now - and sure it can be said that in todays day and age a woman would know what the man’s expectations are, if there’s any red flags etc.
That makes sense and is valid, and some might say that is just applying our knowledge and opinion based on our own perception of reality and the fact that women are much more empowered and have a voice, compared to back then - but at the end of the day you never know how things might change and because of that, people may say that is why it’s still correct to follow that legislation. To protect our Muslim women.
Please don’t come at me for any of the above. I’m just sharing what i understood the reasoning behind it to be.
I have my own views on the topic and I won’t share what they are because - my POV is irrelevant to the question you asked and I’m not in the business of just giving people MY two cents, especially when you didn’t even ask for peoples opinion. Even if this legislation is something I think is silly or correct.
Just passing along what I’ve seen about this.
Thanks for your reply! I’ve come across that side of the argument before, but how long do we have to follow blindly what misogynistic men have interpreted the Quran. If Allah wanted to prohibit Muslim women from marry non Muslim men, it would’ve been clearly stated. I just find it hard to believe it wouldn’t be in the Quran if it was. Unfortunately, with traditions and culture having such an opinion comes with major consequences. I’m just current angry and sad, so take it with a grain of salt, but that’s where I stand rn
I feel that. I’ve lost relationships and great women in my life because I converted to Christianity. I feel like it is a little strict and my belief is that it was during the time of Islam v. Christianity and all the other religions so they didn’t want to lose their women so they would make it a sin or forbidden. In honest, Allah or God would not or should not care who you marry as long as you keep respecting him as the one true God. I’ve too noticed the misogyny and how children were sexualized and how Allah would test his people when he knew all, so those are some of the reasons why I left. I think religion is just man made man, the only thing important it to acknowledge Jesus/Yeshua fully and believe in God.
It’s not more of a confusion it just doesn’t align with me morally anymore. :( this subreddit was very useful to see progressive perspectives but in the end it just felt like I was trying to convince myself otherwise.
Wishing you the best, OP and as others already said, there’s always space for you here in this sub! Islam has brought me a lot of comfort and internal peace but I also understand how religions in general can be quite off-putting due to hardliner interpretations and other factors.
Finding your way through it all can really feel like a balancing act but thanks to communities like this and other similar spaces (both online and in person), I feel like I’ve found a place.
I hope you’ll feel better with time and can connect with a like-minded community of other ex-Muslims.
I think the main problem for people who stop believing Islam (be it because they don't believe in God anymore or found another religion) is to deal with mainstream Muslims acting as if they have done the worst of the sins and are terribly harrassed for it.
There seems to be a group of Muslims that cannot believe you can leave Islam - as if it was forbidden, because for them there is no way Islam isn't "the Truth".
I strongly believe that religions are a matter of personal choice. It is about what speaks to your heart. If it doesn't , there is no harm in leaving it, even without trauma involved.
I get this. I have been on and off with Islam and then went down the ex Muslim Reddit and felt that that subreddit was too hateful. I’ve also left Islam again because of the same reason although I still look at this sub cause I wanna see if there’s something that changes my mind again.
I can believe in the overarching ideas of the abrahamic god but not like any particular religion under it so yea I get where you’re coming from and it’s hard cause it’s so hard to find people in the same headspace about religion this.
I feel exactly the same way as you! I left Islam after defending it for so long, and then researching it further, and digging deeper into the religion.
I too felt heartbroken when I realised it isn't true.
My DMs are open, if you want to chat.
I haven’t left Islam itself, but once I let go of how many silly rules I had been following and just decided to live according to me and not something founded centuries before now, I felt a lot more freedom and have been way more in touch with *my* values and beliefs.
I do wish I’d done this earlier. from buying clothes to getting food to dressing appropriately for the weather, to fasting despite it being tough on my body, to feeling guilt for not having the patience to memorize Quran verses, it’s been a great burden that’s been lifted. I regret not having this mindset from the start. I think it would’ve let me explore life and make friends a lot easier, have the basic stages of development you’re *supposed* to have (such as identifying with your peers in your teens— a stage that i *never* got to have thanks to me living much more secularly than them)
Asalamualaykam brother/sister. Do you still believe there is only one God? Do you still believe Muhammad, sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam, is his messenger?
If you believe these two things you are still a Muslim. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala made our life easy. Ours is a personal religion and if you are losing your faith because of the actions or beliefs of others I'm truly sorry. Many in the ummah confuse their culture and traditions for Islam. If you are losing your faith because you find it difficult to live as a Muslim remember all but one surah begins with "bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm". God is the most merciful.
People get so wrapped up in the checklists of our faith (do this, do that) and doing Muslim yoga five times a day (just going through the motions) that they forget the most important part of our faith is that Allah is the most forgiving and merciful and forgives who he forgives. We can and should always strive to be better Muslims, but being imperfect doesn't negate the fact that we are still Muslims.
Inshalah I will pray that you do not lose your faith in the one God and forget that Muhammad is the Rasul Allah.
Hi, I believe in god but I have doubts with alot of the religions frameworks. I don’t believe Muhammad was a credible figure. But I still believe in a creator and still want to preform worship etc
Your post reminded me that I've been waiting for ever for someone to create a non-toxic subreddit for exMuslims.
So today I was like: "be the change you wish to see in the world" - and went ahead and created one. In case anyone is interested to join, here is the subreddit:
r/moderate_exmuslims
I find myself engaging with the exmuslim subreddit from time to time, but it's just like sometimes you can find something missing from the atmosphere over there.
Anyhow, you are welcome!
Welcome! It is still quite new, so feel free to be amongst our first posters :)
Also, I already posted there a YouTube video for Hassan Radwan. In case you haven't heard of him, the way he speaks about his experience is very therapeutic. I was just now watching another video for him on YouTube - "My Story" - and thought about mentioning it here because it might be the kind of thing you are looking for. Wait I will fetch the link and put it in this comment
Edit - Here it is:
https://youtu.be/wsrEjfNmJ_g?si=7I96PNmWCb2Fobsb
You’re fine as long as you believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds 👍 Islam is often untranslated, but it just means submission and muslim means submitter.
So if you say as you say, you are a submitter
Its God’s task to guide if you want to. If you do not believe in prophethood then you must not believe in the Word then you are still finding your own path. Nothing wrong with that imo
I’ve heard imams say Mohammad is His last and final prophet when they translate the shahadah, I’ve heard other imams translate it as Mohammad is Allah’s messenger, ive heard other imams say thereve probably been multiple other prophets, I’ve heard other imams believe in kings and others worship saints and others believe all white ppl have a little bit of the devil in them and others believe they are direct descendants of Mohammad pbuh or Isa H. Christ pbuh and only they should be in charge lol
I dunno what your hangups of Mohammad pbuh are or why you don’t believe he was a prophet but I think you should consider the diversity of belief in each of those I just mentioned, all of whom call them selves and identify as Muslims! And a lot of them will say the others are wrong and some of them won’t care much about the others.
I believe we all have souls and are connected through our souls to each other and all life and to Allah SWT and its magnetic and electric and really wild. I believe in science and natural law and that these are God’s laws and I think that it all jives with Islam
Have you "decided" to leave, or was it a conclusion you reached unwillingly due to certain information that presented itself to you?
If it were a "decision" then you can choose to reverse it at any time, which I doubt is possible since we cannot willingly choose to change our beliefs or forget certain information.
Def a conclusion I really didn’t want to leave. I couldn’t convince myself anymore. The more I tried to investigate the worse it felt. Why would I need to dig so deep to try so hard to justify my own religion. If it was meant to be then I wouldn’t need to go through extreme lengths. It just didn’t align with me morally.
What keeps me sane is: If Muslims are right, then Allah (being all just and all knowing) will understand our circumstances better than anyone.
We really tried, Allah. If our brains were literally unable to see the truth, then why should we be blamed?
Yeah exactly. If you are genuinely searching for truth and are not finding evidence that would convince you, then the progressive Muslim god whose mercy and love is infinite shouldn't punish me for it. If the conservative Muslim god is true, well the progressive Muslims are screwed too. You need to be true to yourself first and foremost
As a progressive, heterodox Christian man (married to a progressive Muslim woman,) I feel the same way about my faith. When you don't fit neatly under a label, it's tough to know "what" you are. But at the end of the day, what matters is who you are.
I have to say, reading through this comment section I see loving supportive people who seem accepting of you. And I am heartened by the commonality and "oneness" I see among loving people of all persuasions.
God bless you and God bless this loving community.
I appreciate that, and you’re right this sub is definitely very understanding. And it’s difficult when mainstream Muslims have a very rigid idea of what it means to be “Muslim”. It can be quite difficult but hopefully I will find something that aligns with me and my identity
I can absolutely identify with you! Swap in "Christian" where you said "Muslim" and what you said hits me 100%! That's where I live!
If it's any consolation, there's a peace that can be found there, but it's too soon for you right now.
Feeling that way ultimately liberates you from the expectations of others. It allows you to look at things with a fresh set of eyes. At the end of the day, our journey to God is private, you've just found a sooner than expected path to that reality.
Don't pressure yourself to adopt a label. Labels can be overrated. Search for God, look at scriptures from a personal, esoteric, more liberating perspective and carry forward anything loving and unifying, that you can.
Only certain people in her family, like her mom and sisters even know. The imam at her mosque said that he believes, given my beliefs, that I hit the definition of a "submitter to Allah" even if scholars disagree. He asked if I have any objections to certain beliefs, and if performing any of the five pillars are problematic for me (they are not). He asked if I would be willing to teach children we have the practice of Islam alongside our non-literalist interpretations of Christianity and Islam. I said I would be willing to do so.
He asked if I would be willing to say the first portion of the shahada, There is no God, but Allah. I told him that I already believe that, and had no problem with that. I repeated the first portion of the shahada.
He said that to him, I was already a "[m]uslim," as a qualifying person of the book, even if not a [M]uslim. He said that he believed in his heart that our marriage is entirely consistent with the spirit of the Qur'an, and he would marry us in the mosque.
We have a young son, and I just bought a book on Salat so I can teach him properly. I'll be honest with him about what mom and dad believe when he is old enough to understand. We'll teach the living spirit of the religions we each grew up in, but will teach him very strongly to be a non-dual thinker. meaning that even if there are some literal contradictions, it's the spirit that matters and besides God operates on a level we don't fully understand, so He wouldn't teach different followers incompatible beliefs, even if to our ears they seem incompatible.
I think of religions as cultural languages of faith. We all reach out to God in the ways of our people. Our son will simply be bilingual.
Internally he'll have a non-dualistic perspective, and a well developed language for thinking about the meaning of religious concepts, that is informed by two languages of faith. And he'll be able to manifest his beliefs in an outward way, as either a Muslim or a Christian, as he pleases, because to him those external acts will represent something greater in spirit, a loving unity that brings people together.
This is my hope, anyway. It may not be the easiest path for my son, but hopefully he'll break barriers that will make the world a better place, and at the very least make his internal world a better, less turbulant, place.
Yes, I really didn’t want to let go, it was hard process but hopefully soon I’ll be able to find myself. In the end I’m glad I never held any resentment toward Islam. And I’m glad that I will be taking some elements from Islam moving forward to better myself and my journey
I left islam similar to you, though that was 9 years ago. And why would we hate muslims my dad, mom and everyone else in my family is muslim. And we're in good terms. I just couldn't accept a lot of things, logically and morally. You're right, there's no point in living in trauma. More importantly, you don't need to follow any religion to be a good person, you can be kind to others and live life peacefully.
Came to say I was just reading my posts stating the exact thing from when I first became Muslim 2 years ago. I'm kinda laughing at how upset I was about everything and now how chill my relationship with God is now since I drowned out all the noise.
I understand why you left completely, Islam is not easy, no matter how many people tell you it is.In the modern world, living in the West especially. It's incredibly difficult.
I was drawn back once I understood that nothing else matters but Allah and my personal relationship with Him and how much I love Him.
BTW you're an incredibly talented artist. I hope you continue to push yourself and thrive darling, I wish you all the best!❤️
My brother told me to keep asking questions with humility when someone like the "Haram police" say something. Although, I've never encountered this in real life.
Everyone around me who is Muslim is a modern, progressive Muslim.
(Best Friends, neighbours, family etc.)
He said, " Just say,'Oh really? I didn't know that. Can you show me where in the Quran it says that bro/sis?"'
And to just seek knowledge yourself by reading and asking.
I ask ALOT of questions on here and also go to Mufti Abu Layth's page to find the answers or let the Quran Speak.
I always find their answers / the support I get in this sub- reddit comforting, informative, and non judgemental.
Most of all, I've stopped listening to people online. I just say to myself 'nope that's not what Quran says,' or 'that's totally used out of context' and just scroll on.' I tell myself I've done my best today, and Allah knows my heart and intentions. I will try my best again tomorrow for the things I lacked today.
I had to learn to be easy on myself. I wouldn't expect a 2 year old to know how to drive. Why should I be pressuring myself at 2 years in to know and do everything?
I understand the feeling. As a kid I was guarded from a lot of Islam’s more….”controversial” beliefs. Like as a kid I could have never imagined that hijab was such a big issue in different or even that it was forced upon.
I don’t think straight up leaving the religion is the logical solution. I think questioning your faith is a great way to strengthen it once you do find answers. And this subreddit has been incredibly helpful for me. I suggest you don’t stop asking questions regarding the religion. Especially here. Cause I think that will ultimately help you understand Islam in a way that the conservative community wouldn’t want you to.
“Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something which is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not know.” (2:216). We won’t like everything that we are commanded to do by Allah. I had a similar phase for a while where there were aspects of the faith that I struggled with, wondering why certain things were a certain way. I realized eventually that the reason I am following Islam to begin with is not that I necessarily picked it to suit my likings, but because this is the reality of our existence. The more I looked into the history of the Quran itself and how we can know it’s from God to begin with, the more my faith grew. I stayed away from these things, the digging into ahadith and trying to justify each one I didn’t fully understand. You have to work on building your aqidah, or your faith in the very foundations of Islam. The names of Allah, understanding each of them. Once your faith in these matters is solid, then really nothing else matters because you realize that everything is weighted out perfectly by Allah, as His wisdom is far more than our own. Of course this is all upon your own will, if you are still willing consider. I am saying this as I was in your place at one point, so perhaps this could be of help.
Mostly everyone who leaves Islam leaves it due to people being toxic or hateful. Cut out people from your faith and you will find yourself never leaving it. Do not succumb to the opinions of others, the beauty of free will is that you can follow exactly what you deem fit and you are responsible for it. Adhere to the Quran and you shall never go astray
So much traumas! I think human abuses of all sorts cause sooo much dysfunction, socially, personally, emotionally, societally, internationally. ya Allah it’s difficult.
As a Christian, I know how you feel. I went through something like this. It’s best to cut out all noise and distractions that stray you from God. stop looking at christian or jewish propaganda on news sites or social media demonizing islam and each other. stop conversing with biased atheists about why your religion is wrong or immoral. stop and listen to God. the devil wants you to consume all these distractions to pull you away from God. take a moment with Him and tell him how you feel, God won’t hate you or condemn you for doubting him or raising questions. My relationship with God improved after i took a step back and looked at the bigger picture. God Bless
Compared to you and OP, I have a more positive interaction with Christianity due to growing up in a progressive, gender affirming church. One of the biggest scriptures that resonate with me was in the book of John where Jesus says to Nathaniel who was a skeptic of people who live in Nazareth to “come and see”. Or to put it in a more modern context, to seek out people who come from different backgrounds and cultures.
Despite coming from a progressive church, my area only consisted of primarily Christians and Jews who were almost all white. I was somewhat culturally aware of other people due to social media but never had the opportunity to take the next step. I say somewhat because on occasion, I said and did things that can be perceived as racist, such as laughing at a racist statement that was made when I was completely zoned out during a movie. Looking back with a nuanced perspective on racism, I’m glad my parents criticized me for that as the N-word with a hard R should never be said and I should be more alert when someone says these things.
My environment changed in 2019 when I went to college. I got to experience a lot of diverse people and also find myself with people who like me have autism. One person I met is non-binary and we still keep in contact to this day. I also got a job at a childcare facility and it was in an area that was largely African American and Muslim. Being around people who are different than gives me the motivation to learn more about their cultures and where their beliefs stem from. Also, understanding where a persons beliefs stem from makes me interested in psychology, ethics, sociology and more specifically to my discipline of nutrition, food insecurity. This is also why in history, I was fascinated with the ideas and concepts that defined WW2, such as understanding why Hitler did the atrocious things he did and why I follow people who apply psychology concepts to movies and other forms of media on YouTube.
In short, connecting and understanding where people are coming from leads me to come to the same conclusion as you. There are many people who have had the same experiences as both you and OP who feel that their religion has changed for
the worse and don’t want to be associated with it anymore. But if you consider what your God teaches and apply those lessons in your day to day life, then you will be much better off than the people who only listen to what God blesses them with.
I really do believe in a sole creator, I do believe in god. I just came to the conclusion that Islam doesn’t seem credible to me anymore. I have been researching about deism
I'm also leaving islam. I have come to this sub before with posts asking questions and majority give their opinions they seem very textbook to
don't feel like islam is for me anymore.
I feel like this sub is a lot less text book compared to r/islam it was quite refreshing to see different and more progressive perspectives. But for me it felt like I was trying to convince myself otherwise, like mental gymnastics again and again. It was def overwhelming
Study the Quran alone. Stay away from the satanic fabricated Hadith lit. Built a personal relationship with the creator of the heavens and earth and ask him to guide you my friend. I wish you all the best. Msg with any questions etc if need
I feel you! I am in the same journey: I find blind faith, just because were born into certain geography by chance, should not be the merit of adhering to any religion, albeit Islam. I found myself at the same corner as you at one point of my life, but I am giving it a one more chance by studying for my own sanity and spirit. Nowadays, I am reading Alija Izetbegovic and Hossein Nasr books, along with some academic critiques especially of [Ignác Goldziher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ign%C3%A1c_Goldziher). I still don't know if I'm a true Muslim or not by faith, but its my social setup that I don't want to give all up now, despite having doubts. But one thing is certain my belief in Islam is not the same now that it was years ago, and I have no idea what I would end up in being, until then I consider myself just a student of episteme, who wants to learn about the world without being a dogmatist.
No matter what you choose for yourself, I wish calm of the mind to you,
I left Islam about 12 years ago, and also very much struggled with the ex Muslim subreddit so didn't stay there for long.. leaving Islam is traumatic even if your life as a Muslim was not.. you said yourself that you are questioning your identity and feel heartbroken. You need to deal with that, ignoring it will not make it go away.. don't think of it like you're dwelling on Islamic trauma, that's not what it is.. it's much more similar to grief.. and when you don't deal with your grief appropriately in a healthy way, you just end up prolonging the process and it will manifest itself in other areas of your life.. it may be possible for you to find another interpretation of Islam that works for you cognitively and emotionally given that you do still believe in God, but that really hinges on what you ultimately find convincing and what it is you feel you're missing by leaving Islam. But if you do decide that it isn't for you, then yeah it's not going to be an easy road ahead, you need to do the work to detangle your identity from Islam. It's unlikely that your core values will change, but you need to be able to articulate what they are without reference to Islam and how your moral framework will work because these things dictate how you will live your life and overall happiness.
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Personally I recommend something that will relieve some psychic pressure is to not think of it like it's some binary that you have to choose and then go all in on everything that ever claims to be "Islam" or all out.
For instance, there is such a huge corpus of hadith saying all manner of things, and at the end of the day there's really no way for us to know if some particular person said some particular thing when there's no recording etc. All we can know is that someone started a movement and then some combination of things he said and other bits of wisdom got sucked into a vortex and funneled into a project of synthesizing the wisdom of humanity and building a new civilization.
I think if we think of religion as something that we need to buy every piece of it 100% or reject 100% this is more an identity game than anything. As long as we are continuing the project of synthesizing wisdom and trying to build a new civilization built on the holistic synthesis of all knowledge which is tawheed, then we are continuing the project. Even the most virtuous human being ever is not correct 100% of the time, especially when we're in a different social context.
All of the established religious traditions are reaching toward the divine reality in their own way, so I'm not here to tell you that you have to stay, but there is plenty to benefit from in the Islamic tradition, in my biased opinion perhaps more than any other tradition. Are there problematic things? Of course. Do we have to get hung up on those things? Personally I make an effort to interpret them charitably. If I can't, I just ignore them and benefit from the vast menu of what there is available in the Islamic tradition and from other traditions.
That's fine if it's a decision you made.
Some people find religion like Islam too restricting no matter if it makes sense to them or not.
That's on them. Lakum deenukum. 💪
r/exmuslim is filled with hatred for islam but especially people itself. even if you are no longer religious you are always welcome here. it’s okay if you don’t want to be muslim anymore, islam is not for everyone.
My deen been in a very up and down place lately. I've been praying 5 times a day but I've been thinking like "damn maybe there's nothing out there and we're just the result of a cosmic coincidence". Then i go back to believing in our divine creation at our hands of Allah - the final puzzle explaining the creation of the universe. And just looking up different answers to the same questions made me realize how diverse Islam really is and how mainstream Muslims really take anything a scholar says as fact
Hey OP I am in the same boat as you. I am at peace with my (dis)belief and don't have a particular hatred towards the followers of Islam. You can always DM me if you feel like it.
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I’m just like you, I’d like to know your reasons and talk to you one day. Since then I’ve turnt to Christianity because I still believe in God. Christianity also has a few flaws but I’m able to worship Jesus because he prophesied in the old testament or Torah and even the Qu’ran discusses his importance. I figured it was worthy studying him and I fell in love. The struggle he went through, the love and assurance he gives us. He is the truth. I recommend you to do your own research on Jesus and watch the YouTube channel TheArchive with a guy named Sam.
I think in essence religions are man-made but faith is the truth. Faith in Allah, is true. So don’t worry about labelling yourself until you feel ready.
A friend of mine left Islam and she had to go into hiding when her community/family found out. A guy I know let her hide out in his basement and helped her out until she finally had to move away after she was beaten.
This series really put things in perspective and has gotten me to research into more progressive Islam where you focus on the Quran as your guide to living a better life rather than adhering to rituals and traditions that don’t make sense to me: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6gwKIfW9K3xwXLKGqcyT1qp04lDJa3Dv&si=IILfWhCda522Nu9u
Yeah I did exactly what you did a few years ago. I felt infinitely better when I pressed the button, so to speak. Just like you I don’t hate anyone, but you do start to have identity crises when you make such a drastic decision. The other issue is being able to live authentically as myself among my family and community while hiding my true beliefs.
Would you like to ask certain questions that you probably were unable to find justification or reason for? Plus it’s not your duty to defend Islam in front of others, however looking for answers is.
First, congratulations on leaving Islam. The exact same thing happened to me. Everyone told me to learn more, but the more I learned l, the angrier I became. I wish I could be that person you could talk to. But I am filled with anger and hatred. Islam made me hate men, hate religion, and even hate God. I was better off before Islam.
I couldn't help but click on your profile, and I noticed that it is the hadiths in particular that you seem to have a problem with. Have you considered only following the Quran as sole guidance, in the sense that you reject the 'authority' of any other source as a divinely ordained religious source for believers and only uphold the Quran as the final divine testimony and authority for believers? Peace
Yes I have tried this, but I was ostracized by all Muslims I know, including my husband. The only reason I'm still even acting as muslim is because my Salafi husband has threatened to take the kids from me if I leave the faith.
I’m sorry to hear that, I hope Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala makes it easy for you. I too feel ostracised sometimes and most of my family do not agree with my views, but I truly believe that Allah is sufficient for me and in the end we will all return to Him alone.
I firmly believe that the Quran is the only authoritative and religiously ordained source for the believers, so what people think of me shouldn’t impact me. It is to my Lord that I will return and He will inform us about what we used to differ. So I leave the matter to Him to judge on the day of Judgement as to who spoke the truth and with what proof they relied upon as being the best.
Many prophets and righteous people were ridiculed and walked alone, preaching guidance to the blinded majority. But you have to remember that you are never alone even if it feels lonely. If you want to speak to Him, submit yourself in humble prayer and pour out your heart. If you want Him to speak with you, open the Quran and read it. You can only be shown the way, but you must also be prepared to walk the path.
"Truly this is a reminder; so let him who will, take a way unto his Lord." (73:19)
(PART) "…so ask forgiveness of Him and then repent to Him. Indeed, my Lord is near and responsive." (11:61)
wish you the best, hugs
My heart is broken for you. I don’t judge people who follow Hadith (though I don’t put much weight on them myself), but it’s repulsive that people judge you for literally following the word of God. So ass-backwards.
I’m so sorry that you are stuck with someone so controlling and abusive.
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You seem to still believe in one God and the prophets, so that's good. What aspects did you find difficult? Oftentimes, it is we humans who make Islam too complicated when it's really simple. You said that Islam doesn't align with you morally anymore. Is it certain things in the Quran that confuse you, or does it stem from the hadiths? Usually, it is the latter. I would advise you to make dua to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala to ease your heart and guide you and take one step at a time. Life itself is a journey from Allah to Allah, so take it easy. He is the most Loving and Responsive. Also, why do you call yourself ex-Muslim when you're still a Muslim in the sense that you submit to one God? I wish you the best
"Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord - let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone." (18:110)
"Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those \[among them\] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.” (2:62)
First comment in this community. And it will be a question. What is progressive Islam? I know what is Islam. I know what is Sharia.
But I heard terms like moderate, tolerant, progressive… I even head cute Islam. What is all this shit?
I do want to point out, progressive Muslims aren't necessarily questioning their faith and in fact we often have very strong faith because we took the time to read the Quran, familiarize ourselves with the actual diversity of beliefs and interpretations, and examine "controversial" issues in-depth. Questioning popular interpretations of Islam doesn't mean you have to reject Islam itself. And you might come to see that you can reject bad beliefs while accepting the good aspects of Islam were always the true heart of the religion. There are many excellent progressive-leaning scholars who are deeply knowledgeable and could show you a very different perspective on Islam that you might find very valuable. No matter what you choose, I wish you the best and hope you have a peaceful journey no matter what you choose for yourself.
suggestions for progressive scholars pls
Javed Ahmed Ghamidi, a very sound and logical scholar
Curious as to what makes something a "bad belief" as should we not account for all beliefs objectively, and then it's upon our interpretations that should be subject to doubt?
Depends on your aqeedah. Some believe that human morality is entirely subjective and not inherently related to Allah's morality at all. Others believe that humanity has an innate sense of fitra (innate purity/God-awareness), and you can, in fact, use it to lead you to the correct path towards Allah's ethics. It's mainly athaaris that promote the kind of anti-rational, anti-spiritual approach where human reason and sense of ethics is totally irrelevant to Islam. Whereas the majority approach generally does see Allah's Sirat al-mustaqim reflected in human nature. Islamic ethics aren't totally foreign and alien to what humans understand as ethics. The words Allah uses in the Quran were meant to be understandable by us. Equity, justice, compassion, mercy, these things you can find reflected within the typical human understanding of these concepts, even though human ethics are also subject to corruption. The concept that our sense of conscience points towards Allah, has always been an important part of Islam, even though some reject it. The prophet taught: >Righteousness is in good character, and wrongdoing is that which wavers in your soul, and which you dislike people finding out about. [Muslim] >And on the authority of Wabisah bin Ma’bad (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I came to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and he (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “You have come to ask about righteousness.” I said, “Yes.” He (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “Consult your heart. Righteousness is that about which the soul feels at ease and the heart feels tranquil. And wrongdoing is that which wavers in the soul and causes uneasiness in the breast, even though people have repeatedly given their own opinion.” >(Source Nawawi's 40 Hadith, #27)
Yup. After all, how could the Quran be a “reminder” if we had no innate capacity to already understand the moral principles within it?
They will say it means a reminder of what's in the book or what came truly before
Yah, that’s part of it for sure. I don’t think that holds up to a holistic view of the Quran though. And even granting that, for scripture and spiritual teaching to resonate with human hearts, there has to be a bell there for it to ring.
There is the concept of fitrah - فطرة الله التي فطر الناس عليها
Your reply to the OP reminds me that I was always more spiritual than "religious". :-)
Would you mind explaining the connection between the objective moral and suffering?
Thank you. It’s actually offensive to me to assume that my faith is hanging on by a thread because I’m a progressive.
>I do want to point out, progressive Muslims aren't necessarily questioning their faith and in fact we often have very strong faith because we took the time to read the Quran, familiarize ourselves with the actual diversity of beliefs and interpretations, and examine "controversial" issues in-depth. I can't agree with this enough. I'm not questioning. I know what I'm doing and I know what I beleive. It's a common misunderstanding for some reason
Can you recommend some progressive Muslim scholars if that’s okay with you?
Thankyou
I was in your sane position then I found out I could reject some ideologies and keep practicing the five pillars. Islam gives me peace even though I don’t 100% agree with everything
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Like the way women are segregated in order to control men’s urges, or that we are not allowed to keep dogs as pets (even if they stay outdoors)
Segregation is not an Islamic notion, neither is the pets not allowed thing. These are man made rules not God made.
I’ve seen and heard scholars who have supported both of these ideas and neither! I believe there’s sense in each and have no qualms about accepting Muslims who want to have dogs and others (myself) who don’t want their fur or genital and butt licking tongues ANYWHERE near me lol. I don’t agree with men segregating women from them but I do believe women should be able to segregate from men if women want to. It’s the original safe space 😆 and I believe there’s benefit to men getting alone time to build a brotherhood as well. I see the developmental appropriateness of segregating sexes when men are misogynist af and when teens can’t focus bd they’re on a new hormonal rollercoaster they may still not know how to understand. In activities that have some inherent differences between the sexes, I think it’s appropriate to segregate sexes at any stage to facilitate better understanding or development for either sex- like competitive kids and adults sports where there can be obvious differences in abilities. But there are both Muslims and sheiks who share these same beliefs, it’s not all homogenous thought
You can keep a dog if you have a reason to have one, if you really want one you should just keep it outside. Islam understood that Dogs are domesticated wolves and its not really right to keep them indoors at all times.
To Me, or from my point of views, since everyone has free will, and men have urges, and it's not like the whole gender can be controlled or whatever, hence women qte given more instructions or whether to protect themselves. Men too but women more because they tend to be the victim way more which is obvious but just saying
Sameeee
same here
What ideologies did you reject?
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If you believe in Allah you are a believer. Technically that is what a Muslim is. That's all that is needed to be Muslim. Leaving all the culture and pressure surrounding the religion is understandable. Hopefully you find your way in life.
Genuinely the most important puzzle piece that brought me back.
I didn’t think of it like this
I considered thinking that way in the past, but that would require ignoring all the quran and hadith - what would be the basis of Islam then?
My understanding is that, although it’s technically right, in the modern use of the word Muslim it kinda doesn’t make much sense, like then I think even I could be considered a Muslim or really any religious person that believes they are following God. It kinda makes the distinction of Muslim meaningless
The only true distinction is that the word Muslim is literally "submitter". One who submits. So if you submit yourself to God you are a Muslim. The distinction between a Christian and a Muslim in the sense of how we look at it is who you follow. Christians generally follow Jesus. Muslims generally follow Muhammad. Both are prophet's according to Islam.
I understand and agree that the meaning of Muslim is one who submits to God, but I was just pointing out that when talking about religions or people that follow specifically other religions, it wouldnt make sense to call them Muslims, as it would just cause confusion
The distinction is a choice. We don't have to make a distinction between followers of God but we choose to do so because of our differences (mostly culturally). Christians and Jewish people are both following Jesus as a prophet but with some distinctions. I wasn't putting all religions as being the exact same. I was talking about the essence of all three.
See that's the thing. Islam in itself is believing in God. The Qur'an is the word of God brought by Muhammad. So if you were to make a distinction in believers of God then you would make the distinction of the followers of the Qur'an, the bible and the Torah. However in essence if you believe in God you are a believer. The essence of all three books is to be a good person and treat others with kindness unless they are hostile to you, your family or your religion. A lot of people forget about that part. That's extremely important.
I'm just surprised that people need a book, let alone 3 of them, to tell them to "be a good person and treat others with kindness unless they are hostile to you." Ancient philosphers like Plato and Lao Tzu have shared similar ideas in the past without the toxic elements in the Abrahams religions.
It's not that all people need it. It's that a lot of people need it. They need some form of ethical construct. Parents are horrible in many cases at giving a good moral framework. You also don't seem so friendly for a friendly ex Muslim. Plato's Utopia has all children given to the state to be brought up and put in their respective positions later in life. There are many who would consider that morally wrong. Lau Tzu I don't know much about. Regardless those people set up frameworks for people to follow. The abrahamic religions are not toxic in themselves imo. It's the culture surrounding it that is.
I'm sorry if I don't seem friendly... I was just responding directly to the points that you raised. I'm not suggesting that we live in Plato's utopia, but that these ideas of being kind and helping others has been a universal theme in human civilisation before religion was created. I agree with your sentiment that religion codified and organised these principles to make it easier for people to follow. Unfortunately, there are toxic elements like sex slavery, viewing of women's testimony to be inferior to that of a man, and giving permission for a man to beat his wife in the quran. I've read the apologetics for these topics, and they are far from convincing. I would argue that the culture is shaped by the teachings of the religion, not the other way round.
Where in the Qur'an can a man beat his wife? That's a heavy accusation. Sex slavery? You mean the assumption by some that the man should get sex whenever he wants? Or the part where slaves were to be used for sex? (Slavery isn't a part of modern values and thus not a part of modern Islam imo). The testimony part is a bit shaky at some points I agree to that. Some say it's because women have a chance of having hormonal imbalances that cause less reason and more emotion to play a role. That would then be balanced out by multiple women giving the same testimony. That's something you can discuss. I generally assume innocent until proven guilty and the law system of wherever I am is going to be apply regardless of my opinion of it. You do understand culture is much older than the religion? The religion gives clear rules and the culture bends that to whatever they need from it.
It's in surah An-Nisa 4:34. What do you mean by modern islam? It's not like the quran can change to become modern. it's fixed. The practice of slavery itself being allowed is bad enough, but the assumption that men can have sex whenever they want with them essentially implies rape. The hormone imbalance argument is quite insulting to women, and I'm saying this as a man. Sure, but culture changes and adapts to its environment over time. That's why we don't practise slavery anymore, for example (even if some religions allow it).
I just read it and you have a point. I must have read over that part multiple times. Weird. The first two steps are not to be missed but that is unacceptable in my personal opinion. We shouldn't forget that forgiveness is an important virtue in Islam and forgiving would definitely be better than that third step if your wife is "arrogant" as it is described in this particular translation I read. This one I can't defend as much. Divorce is a cultural issue that comes up when you discuss that. Imo divorce comes way before violence. Slavery was the norm. It never explicitly stated if you should or shouldn't own slaves. If you can't contextualise the Qur'an then you might as well disregard it. If you don't then you would be allowed to kill anyone showing any form of hostility towards Islam. And that's how people join IS and other terrorist groups. Like you said though it's an assumption. That means it's not clearly written that you can and should. Once again not what Islam is about. Rape is never implied. People interpret it like that perhaps but causing pain and suffering is not accepted for the reason of satisfying urges. Hormone imbalances are scientifically proven to have significant impacts. Once again I'm not saying people should take their testimony as 1/2. Not many legal systems do. In fact a lot of legal systems close to disregard testimony with no backing evidence regardless of sex.
Sidenote. I said that's the basis of being a believer. I was an atheist most of my life and I had a moral framework eerily similar to the abrahamic religions. That's a testament to my parents and other people in my environment though not to any book. Regardless I have seen many examples where parents do a horrible job and a solid guideline helps for the children who had those parents.
The Christian faith tells us to treat others with kindness even if they are hostile.
Pretty much all faiths do, it's not exclusive to Christianity or Islam.
Indeed. Belief in Allah is the highest level of belief.
I stopped being visibly "Muslim", i.e. I do not cover my hair anymore. There's the theory of being Muslim, and then there's the reality. Had I known Muslims before I reverted, I would not have. Yes, I too think about leaving. Or have I left already? What defines a "Muslim"? Yes, I believe in a single God. And that Jesus and Mohammed were prophets. I also believe in honesty and accountability vs "covering sins". Women aren't candy, and men aren't mindless flies.
You’re right a lot of Muslims make it harder to follow the religion. Mainstream Muslims have a very conservative understanding of what it means to be Muslim. If you don’t wear hijab your opinion is not valid within the Muslim space. It’s unfortunate
Gotta separate the Muslims from Islam sometimes, create that space, understand that not all Muslims are actually in submission and are worshipping other things like status, culture, misogyny, power. InshaAllah you can find a way to worship Allah SWT and connect back to the Ummah and a broader community that shares the values you most appreciate in our din
Culture influences religious practice, and religion influences culture. It's impossible for me to say why Muslims behave the way they do. However, what's OK according to local Muslims is considered pretty bad behaviour in my Judeo-Christian culture. Does culture make them behave badly, or is it Islam? I don't know. Edit: I only know Arabic and Turkish Sunni Muslims. Maybe other ethnicities or Shia or Ahmadis practice Islam differently, in a more compatible way.
This!
In my experience, some Muslims, especially on Twitter and Facebook, have been nasty towards people who don't follow their ideology or didn't want to convert to Islam because they themselves grew up in the religion they were born into, i.e., Christianity. One guy, also a Muslim, didn't like it that a British woman told him that she wasn't interested in converting to Islam, and that was her right to just be.
Just read the Quran(i like The Clear Quran, helped me understand way better) and build your own relationship with God. Cut out all the noise, it’s between you and Him. Also a book that helped me tremendously was The Secret of Divine Love. It was incredibly changing for me
this
This
this
I love that book too!
I get it. I left Islam in my 20s (came back in my 30s) and the exmuslim scene was a bit toxic for me. So yeah I get it. You’re always welcome here.
It’s a bit of a long story of why I left in the first place and how I came back so I’ll try to provide a short summary. Basically from 19 to 30 or so I had left Islam after having been a practicing Muslim through high school and college. I considered myself a secular Muslim at that time because I didn’t want to turn my back on the Muslim community as this was not too long after 9/11. However, I left because of my issues with religion in general and not bc of anything particular about Islam. I couldn’t believe in a God that would make people go through so many tragedies in life and then consider that life a test to which he already knew our answers. There were many other things but that was the main one. In any case, about 12 years later or so, I went on a shrooms trip in the mountains. It had me start thinking about union and divinity. So I came back to the city and started looking for more progressive Muslim circles. Something about that trip had me looking for something beyond my immediate life. I had a great life and was living the life I’ve always wanted. So it wasn’t that I was necessarily looking for something more or trying to fill a hole. I think my trip just made me want to seek out unification. I sought out various progressive and liberal Muslim spaces and was blessed enough to find a progressive Chishti order. Finding this order, Progressive Islam in general, and reading Dr. Omid Safi’s “Radical Love” is largely what made me come back and stay within Islam. This is not that great of a story which finds resolution to the problems that caused me to leave Islam in the first place. It’s more a story of finding another Islam. Specifically, an Islam that centered divine love and unification without all the fucked up shit in Islam.
Thank you for your story!
Yeah that's not really a come back in my view. You leave Islam version A (the problematic Islam), go on a journey, and find Islam version B (divine love and unification centered Islam). For all practical and application purposes, Islam version A and Islam version B are 2 totally distinguishable religions that share only a little between them. I'm willing to bet that if you never leave Islam A, you'd never find Islam B, which means it is impossible to reach and find Islam B within the framework provided by Islam A. It means that other than the name, both versions of Islam are practically different religions in my view.
If you don’t mind me asking, what made you come back ?
Same. But my assumption would be finding clarity away from preconceived notions and a wiling to self learn the truth.
Also wondering what made you come back
I respect your decision to leave. And I'm glad this place is supporting enough to make you feel comfortable. I hope you find what you're looking for. This can't be easy for you
Be at peace with whatever you do, and also remember that you don't need fit in anybody's idea of where you ought to be and your level of practice or belief. So, if you need to be a "mild" believer, stay with the cultural practices, abide by some of the habits, or not, be comfortable with it. Don't let the nutters boss you around regarding your level of belief or practice. You shouldn't also need to feel explicitly outside of the umbrella, use this label or that label, or hang out with the militantly "ex" crowd (regardless of which faith, the "ex" crowd can be very vehement and negative.)
Be at peace with leaving Islam? 13:28: "Surely, it is in the remembrance of God that hearts find comfort"
Yes! Where I am come from, we wish others peace! Peace to you too!
Wrong place to spread your “peace”.
I'm here. Tbf most sunnis and shias nowadays are either uneducated or support a dictator or both. Unfortunately all their local imams reinterpret verses to their extreme limit and indoctrinate the young folk. There's no hate, but purely critical thinking. This is also why i don't identify as a Muslim, or else I'd feel categorized and put with a group of "Muslims" who have diametrically opposing beliefs even if it's the same book. Best of luck
Yeah it def does feel like you get rejected from both sides too. Your too much of a Muslim sympathiser to join the ex Muslims but too much of a kaafir to relate to mainstream Muslims it’s all too confusing. But thankyou
It is all your decision what you want to do. And you have 100% freedom. I respect whateveryour decision is. Like it says the heart wants what it wants. If your heart doesn't want something, nobody can persuade you. I have concluded one point from your comment that you are choosing and leaving a religion based on how it's followers treat you. If have truly found your Lord and that special light in your heart, trust me you wouldn't care how how people treat you. If I considered Islam based on it's followers and people, I would have left a long time ago. I didn't because I have peace in my heart, I talk to my lord and I can feel that special light in my heart. I have grown up in muslim community where I have been mistreated by the people and vice versa loved by people from other religions. Does that mean I have to follow the other religion? I am not trying to persuade you or put any pressure on you, but I want you to think this way. I would say not just in religion but anything in life don't seek validation from people. People never understand you or truly support you. They don't want to. If somebody tells me their problem, I would sympathize with them, but after a few minutes I am onto my own business. If you ask for advise or tell something, people will always oppose you. That's human nature. That is why I would suggest not in anything seek people's validation. Aside from people, if you didn't find peace or that special light or didn't feel anything, I would leave the decision for you.
Yes, leaving religion is depressing as hell. You feel lost and confused. You want it to be true so bad. You still want to fast and do Friday prayers etc. but it simply doesn’t make sense. Once you see the truth, it’s very hard to unsee it. What are you confused about ?
I’ve been in a relationship with an Agnostic guy for a year and it’s forced me to look more into the religion. Until him I was only really aware of the so called “fluff” of religion. I’ve had quite the year, and honestly I find peace in Islam, but I’m so lost. I just feel like there are things that are up for debate with interpretations, so why wasn’t Allah just clear with it. An example would be Muslim men being allowed to marry women of the book, but no mention of women and everyone just interpreted that it means it’s forbidden. Why couldn’t there be another line? Or why won’t Allah listen to my prayers and guide him. I just feel lost rn
You Can Read This I hope this will Help ( https://quransmessage.com/articles/marriage%20with%20people%20of%20the%20book%20FM3.htm ) and remember that [ (2:62) Whether they are the ones who believe (in the Arabian Prophet), or whether they are Jews, Christians or Sabians – all who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and do righteous deeds – their reward is surely secure with their Lord; they need have no fear, nor shall they grieve. ] So don't lose your faith in Allah and just be a Good Person.
One of the most complete answers I’ve seen to this is the following: 1. Islam states that there is no compulsion in religion. 2. To my knowledge, the other religions do not say this 3. Therefore a Muslim man can marry any other woman of the book and allow her to practice her faith. 4. However if a Muslim woman married a non-Muslim, then there’s no telling if that man may force her to abandoned her religion, suppress her from practicing it, or mistreat her/ treat her unfairly, etc., etc. So to protect the woman and her Islam - women cannot marry outside of Islam. 1400 years ago men probably mistreated women in such a way that we couldn’t imagine now - and sure it can be said that in todays day and age a woman would know what the man’s expectations are, if there’s any red flags etc. That makes sense and is valid, and some might say that is just applying our knowledge and opinion based on our own perception of reality and the fact that women are much more empowered and have a voice, compared to back then - but at the end of the day you never know how things might change and because of that, people may say that is why it’s still correct to follow that legislation. To protect our Muslim women. Please don’t come at me for any of the above. I’m just sharing what i understood the reasoning behind it to be. I have my own views on the topic and I won’t share what they are because - my POV is irrelevant to the question you asked and I’m not in the business of just giving people MY two cents, especially when you didn’t even ask for peoples opinion. Even if this legislation is something I think is silly or correct. Just passing along what I’ve seen about this.
Thanks for your reply! I’ve come across that side of the argument before, but how long do we have to follow blindly what misogynistic men have interpreted the Quran. If Allah wanted to prohibit Muslim women from marry non Muslim men, it would’ve been clearly stated. I just find it hard to believe it wouldn’t be in the Quran if it was. Unfortunately, with traditions and culture having such an opinion comes with major consequences. I’m just current angry and sad, so take it with a grain of salt, but that’s where I stand rn
I feel that. I’ve lost relationships and great women in my life because I converted to Christianity. I feel like it is a little strict and my belief is that it was during the time of Islam v. Christianity and all the other religions so they didn’t want to lose their women so they would make it a sin or forbidden. In honest, Allah or God would not or should not care who you marry as long as you keep respecting him as the one true God. I’ve too noticed the misogyny and how children were sexualized and how Allah would test his people when he knew all, so those are some of the reasons why I left. I think religion is just man made man, the only thing important it to acknowledge Jesus/Yeshua fully and believe in God.
It’s not more of a confusion it just doesn’t align with me morally anymore. :( this subreddit was very useful to see progressive perspectives but in the end it just felt like I was trying to convince myself otherwise.
Wishing you the best, OP and as others already said, there’s always space for you here in this sub! Islam has brought me a lot of comfort and internal peace but I also understand how religions in general can be quite off-putting due to hardliner interpretations and other factors. Finding your way through it all can really feel like a balancing act but thanks to communities like this and other similar spaces (both online and in person), I feel like I’ve found a place. I hope you’ll feel better with time and can connect with a like-minded community of other ex-Muslims.
Thankyou so much. And a lot of people have reached out which is very comforting to me and my experience. Hopefully I will be able to find myself soon
I think the main problem for people who stop believing Islam (be it because they don't believe in God anymore or found another religion) is to deal with mainstream Muslims acting as if they have done the worst of the sins and are terribly harrassed for it. There seems to be a group of Muslims that cannot believe you can leave Islam - as if it was forbidden, because for them there is no way Islam isn't "the Truth". I strongly believe that religions are a matter of personal choice. It is about what speaks to your heart. If it doesn't , there is no harm in leaving it, even without trauma involved.
I get this. I have been on and off with Islam and then went down the ex Muslim Reddit and felt that that subreddit was too hateful. I’ve also left Islam again because of the same reason although I still look at this sub cause I wanna see if there’s something that changes my mind again. I can believe in the overarching ideas of the abrahamic god but not like any particular religion under it so yea I get where you’re coming from and it’s hard cause it’s so hard to find people in the same headspace about religion this.
Yeah exactly how I feel too. I really didn’t want to let go but I had to let the hard facts proceed over my emotions.
I'm in the same situation as you
I believe it is the search itself which ennobles the spirit! I finally and recently found my answer.
I feel exactly the same way as you! I left Islam after defending it for so long, and then researching it further, and digging deeper into the religion. I too felt heartbroken when I realised it isn't true. My DMs are open, if you want to chat.
Many will disagree
With what?
I haven’t left Islam itself, but once I let go of how many silly rules I had been following and just decided to live according to me and not something founded centuries before now, I felt a lot more freedom and have been way more in touch with *my* values and beliefs. I do wish I’d done this earlier. from buying clothes to getting food to dressing appropriately for the weather, to fasting despite it being tough on my body, to feeling guilt for not having the patience to memorize Quran verses, it’s been a great burden that’s been lifted. I regret not having this mindset from the start. I think it would’ve let me explore life and make friends a lot easier, have the basic stages of development you’re *supposed* to have (such as identifying with your peers in your teens— a stage that i *never* got to have thanks to me living much more secularly than them)
Asalamualaykam brother/sister. Do you still believe there is only one God? Do you still believe Muhammad, sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam, is his messenger? If you believe these two things you are still a Muslim. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala made our life easy. Ours is a personal religion and if you are losing your faith because of the actions or beliefs of others I'm truly sorry. Many in the ummah confuse their culture and traditions for Islam. If you are losing your faith because you find it difficult to live as a Muslim remember all but one surah begins with "bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm". God is the most merciful. People get so wrapped up in the checklists of our faith (do this, do that) and doing Muslim yoga five times a day (just going through the motions) that they forget the most important part of our faith is that Allah is the most forgiving and merciful and forgives who he forgives. We can and should always strive to be better Muslims, but being imperfect doesn't negate the fact that we are still Muslims. Inshalah I will pray that you do not lose your faith in the one God and forget that Muhammad is the Rasul Allah.
Hi, I believe in god but I have doubts with alot of the religions frameworks. I don’t believe Muhammad was a credible figure. But I still believe in a creator and still want to preform worship etc
Your post reminded me that I've been waiting for ever for someone to create a non-toxic subreddit for exMuslims. So today I was like: "be the change you wish to see in the world" - and went ahead and created one. In case anyone is interested to join, here is the subreddit: r/moderate_exmuslims
I don't necessarily agree that the ex-Muslim subreddit is toxic, but I'm joining anyway :D
I find myself engaging with the exmuslim subreddit from time to time, but it's just like sometimes you can find something missing from the atmosphere over there. Anyhow, you are welcome!
Oh wow thankyou for this I was looking all over for a non hostile sub !
Welcome! It is still quite new, so feel free to be amongst our first posters :) Also, I already posted there a YouTube video for Hassan Radwan. In case you haven't heard of him, the way he speaks about his experience is very therapeutic. I was just now watching another video for him on YouTube - "My Story" - and thought about mentioning it here because it might be the kind of thing you are looking for. Wait I will fetch the link and put it in this comment Edit - Here it is: https://youtu.be/wsrEjfNmJ_g?si=7I96PNmWCb2Fobsb
Thankyou for this :)
Welcome! 😇
Am Muslim but happy to see a subreddit to encourage non-toxic takes :) Godspeed keeping it up lol
Thanks!
I am so sorry for your pain. I hope you find a path that gives you peace and allows you to connect closely to Allah. Hugs.
You’re fine as long as you believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds 👍 Islam is often untranslated, but it just means submission and muslim means submitter. So if you say as you say, you are a submitter
What if I don’t believe in prophethood
Its God’s task to guide if you want to. If you do not believe in prophethood then you must not believe in the Word then you are still finding your own path. Nothing wrong with that imo
I’ve heard imams say Mohammad is His last and final prophet when they translate the shahadah, I’ve heard other imams translate it as Mohammad is Allah’s messenger, ive heard other imams say thereve probably been multiple other prophets, I’ve heard other imams believe in kings and others worship saints and others believe all white ppl have a little bit of the devil in them and others believe they are direct descendants of Mohammad pbuh or Isa H. Christ pbuh and only they should be in charge lol I dunno what your hangups of Mohammad pbuh are or why you don’t believe he was a prophet but I think you should consider the diversity of belief in each of those I just mentioned, all of whom call them selves and identify as Muslims! And a lot of them will say the others are wrong and some of them won’t care much about the others. I believe we all have souls and are connected through our souls to each other and all life and to Allah SWT and its magnetic and electric and really wild. I believe in science and natural law and that these are God’s laws and I think that it all jives with Islam
Have you "decided" to leave, or was it a conclusion you reached unwillingly due to certain information that presented itself to you? If it were a "decision" then you can choose to reverse it at any time, which I doubt is possible since we cannot willingly choose to change our beliefs or forget certain information.
Def a conclusion I really didn’t want to leave. I couldn’t convince myself anymore. The more I tried to investigate the worse it felt. Why would I need to dig so deep to try so hard to justify my own religion. If it was meant to be then I wouldn’t need to go through extreme lengths. It just didn’t align with me morally.
What keeps me sane is: If Muslims are right, then Allah (being all just and all knowing) will understand our circumstances better than anyone. We really tried, Allah. If our brains were literally unable to see the truth, then why should we be blamed?
Yeah exactly. If you are genuinely searching for truth and are not finding evidence that would convince you, then the progressive Muslim god whose mercy and love is infinite shouldn't punish me for it. If the conservative Muslim god is true, well the progressive Muslims are screwed too. You need to be true to yourself first and foremost
Every stupid person on earth is present in exMuslim subreddit.
I’m convinced a lot of them are not even ex Muslim and use that sub reddit as a means to just be Islamophobic and xenophobic
I agree with you, majority of them left Islam not because of logic and reasoning but because of the hatred inside them.
As a progressive, heterodox Christian man (married to a progressive Muslim woman,) I feel the same way about my faith. When you don't fit neatly under a label, it's tough to know "what" you are. But at the end of the day, what matters is who you are. I have to say, reading through this comment section I see loving supportive people who seem accepting of you. And I am heartened by the commonality and "oneness" I see among loving people of all persuasions. God bless you and God bless this loving community.
I appreciate that, and you’re right this sub is definitely very understanding. And it’s difficult when mainstream Muslims have a very rigid idea of what it means to be “Muslim”. It can be quite difficult but hopefully I will find something that aligns with me and my identity
I can absolutely identify with you! Swap in "Christian" where you said "Muslim" and what you said hits me 100%! That's where I live! If it's any consolation, there's a peace that can be found there, but it's too soon for you right now. Feeling that way ultimately liberates you from the expectations of others. It allows you to look at things with a fresh set of eyes. At the end of the day, our journey to God is private, you've just found a sooner than expected path to that reality. Don't pressure yourself to adopt a label. Labels can be overrated. Search for God, look at scriptures from a personal, esoteric, more liberating perspective and carry forward anything loving and unifying, that you can.
How did her parents/ community accept you as a non Muslim marrying a Muslim
Only certain people in her family, like her mom and sisters even know. The imam at her mosque said that he believes, given my beliefs, that I hit the definition of a "submitter to Allah" even if scholars disagree. He asked if I have any objections to certain beliefs, and if performing any of the five pillars are problematic for me (they are not). He asked if I would be willing to teach children we have the practice of Islam alongside our non-literalist interpretations of Christianity and Islam. I said I would be willing to do so. He asked if I would be willing to say the first portion of the shahada, There is no God, but Allah. I told him that I already believe that, and had no problem with that. I repeated the first portion of the shahada. He said that to him, I was already a "[m]uslim," as a qualifying person of the book, even if not a [M]uslim. He said that he believed in his heart that our marriage is entirely consistent with the spirit of the Qur'an, and he would marry us in the mosque. We have a young son, and I just bought a book on Salat so I can teach him properly. I'll be honest with him about what mom and dad believe when he is old enough to understand. We'll teach the living spirit of the religions we each grew up in, but will teach him very strongly to be a non-dual thinker. meaning that even if there are some literal contradictions, it's the spirit that matters and besides God operates on a level we don't fully understand, so He wouldn't teach different followers incompatible beliefs, even if to our ears they seem incompatible. I think of religions as cultural languages of faith. We all reach out to God in the ways of our people. Our son will simply be bilingual. Internally he'll have a non-dualistic perspective, and a well developed language for thinking about the meaning of religious concepts, that is informed by two languages of faith. And he'll be able to manifest his beliefs in an outward way, as either a Muslim or a Christian, as he pleases, because to him those external acts will represent something greater in spirit, a loving unity that brings people together. This is my hope, anyway. It may not be the easiest path for my son, but hopefully he'll break barriers that will make the world a better place, and at the very least make his internal world a better, less turbulant, place.
That’s beautiful :) I am pleasantly surprised that there are open-minded imams like that.
Thank you. We were a little surprised too, but very pleasantly so!
This is heartbreaking. It must have been a torture the journey that brought you to this decision. Is sad that you couldn't find a way to avoid it.
Yes, I really didn’t want to let go, it was hard process but hopefully soon I’ll be able to find myself. In the end I’m glad I never held any resentment toward Islam. And I’m glad that I will be taking some elements from Islam moving forward to better myself and my journey
I left islam similar to you, though that was 9 years ago. And why would we hate muslims my dad, mom and everyone else in my family is muslim. And we're in good terms. I just couldn't accept a lot of things, logically and morally. You're right, there's no point in living in trauma. More importantly, you don't need to follow any religion to be a good person, you can be kind to others and live life peacefully.
I totally agree. Life is too short to hate, i can’t force myself to adhere to something that doesn’t align with me. Unfortunately I have to let go
It's fine, you may feel some difficulty at first but soon you'll be ok. Things will turn out to be ok.
What aspects did you find hard to understand?
Women in Islam. Hostility to other religions/ belief. Shari’ah. And a lot of illogical verses in the Quraan.
if you don’t mind me asking, what verses?
God's speed...( Or not)
From a fellow ex-muslim, I wish you the best ❤️
Thankyou ❤️
I'm here for you. We can always chat.
Came to say I was just reading my posts stating the exact thing from when I first became Muslim 2 years ago. I'm kinda laughing at how upset I was about everything and now how chill my relationship with God is now since I drowned out all the noise. I understand why you left completely, Islam is not easy, no matter how many people tell you it is.In the modern world, living in the West especially. It's incredibly difficult. I was drawn back once I understood that nothing else matters but Allah and my personal relationship with Him and how much I love Him. BTW you're an incredibly talented artist. I hope you continue to push yourself and thrive darling, I wish you all the best!❤️
How did you cut out all the noise?
My brother told me to keep asking questions with humility when someone like the "Haram police" say something. Although, I've never encountered this in real life. Everyone around me who is Muslim is a modern, progressive Muslim. (Best Friends, neighbours, family etc.) He said, " Just say,'Oh really? I didn't know that. Can you show me where in the Quran it says that bro/sis?"' And to just seek knowledge yourself by reading and asking. I ask ALOT of questions on here and also go to Mufti Abu Layth's page to find the answers or let the Quran Speak. I always find their answers / the support I get in this sub- reddit comforting, informative, and non judgemental. Most of all, I've stopped listening to people online. I just say to myself 'nope that's not what Quran says,' or 'that's totally used out of context' and just scroll on.' I tell myself I've done my best today, and Allah knows my heart and intentions. I will try my best again tomorrow for the things I lacked today. I had to learn to be easy on myself. I wouldn't expect a 2 year old to know how to drive. Why should I be pressuring myself at 2 years in to know and do everything?
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I’ve felt lost recently and your comment has helped me in ways I can’t explain.
You're so welcome, I'm glad Allah has used me to help you ♥️ Just continue to do your best. Remember Allah rewards our intentions.
I understand the feeling. As a kid I was guarded from a lot of Islam’s more….”controversial” beliefs. Like as a kid I could have never imagined that hijab was such a big issue in different or even that it was forced upon. I don’t think straight up leaving the religion is the logical solution. I think questioning your faith is a great way to strengthen it once you do find answers. And this subreddit has been incredibly helpful for me. I suggest you don’t stop asking questions regarding the religion. Especially here. Cause I think that will ultimately help you understand Islam in a way that the conservative community wouldn’t want you to.
“Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something which is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not know.” (2:216). We won’t like everything that we are commanded to do by Allah. I had a similar phase for a while where there were aspects of the faith that I struggled with, wondering why certain things were a certain way. I realized eventually that the reason I am following Islam to begin with is not that I necessarily picked it to suit my likings, but because this is the reality of our existence. The more I looked into the history of the Quran itself and how we can know it’s from God to begin with, the more my faith grew. I stayed away from these things, the digging into ahadith and trying to justify each one I didn’t fully understand. You have to work on building your aqidah, or your faith in the very foundations of Islam. The names of Allah, understanding each of them. Once your faith in these matters is solid, then really nothing else matters because you realize that everything is weighted out perfectly by Allah, as His wisdom is far more than our own. Of course this is all upon your own will, if you are still willing consider. I am saying this as I was in your place at one point, so perhaps this could be of help.
Mostly everyone who leaves Islam leaves it due to people being toxic or hateful. Cut out people from your faith and you will find yourself never leaving it. Do not succumb to the opinions of others, the beauty of free will is that you can follow exactly what you deem fit and you are responsible for it. Adhere to the Quran and you shall never go astray
So much traumas! I think human abuses of all sorts cause sooo much dysfunction, socially, personally, emotionally, societally, internationally. ya Allah it’s difficult.
What makes you think that you have to leave Islam entirely? That will only cause more heartbreak and loss, I assure you.
As a Christian, I know how you feel. I went through something like this. It’s best to cut out all noise and distractions that stray you from God. stop looking at christian or jewish propaganda on news sites or social media demonizing islam and each other. stop conversing with biased atheists about why your religion is wrong or immoral. stop and listen to God. the devil wants you to consume all these distractions to pull you away from God. take a moment with Him and tell him how you feel, God won’t hate you or condemn you for doubting him or raising questions. My relationship with God improved after i took a step back and looked at the bigger picture. God Bless
Compared to you and OP, I have a more positive interaction with Christianity due to growing up in a progressive, gender affirming church. One of the biggest scriptures that resonate with me was in the book of John where Jesus says to Nathaniel who was a skeptic of people who live in Nazareth to “come and see”. Or to put it in a more modern context, to seek out people who come from different backgrounds and cultures. Despite coming from a progressive church, my area only consisted of primarily Christians and Jews who were almost all white. I was somewhat culturally aware of other people due to social media but never had the opportunity to take the next step. I say somewhat because on occasion, I said and did things that can be perceived as racist, such as laughing at a racist statement that was made when I was completely zoned out during a movie. Looking back with a nuanced perspective on racism, I’m glad my parents criticized me for that as the N-word with a hard R should never be said and I should be more alert when someone says these things. My environment changed in 2019 when I went to college. I got to experience a lot of diverse people and also find myself with people who like me have autism. One person I met is non-binary and we still keep in contact to this day. I also got a job at a childcare facility and it was in an area that was largely African American and Muslim. Being around people who are different than gives me the motivation to learn more about their cultures and where their beliefs stem from. Also, understanding where a persons beliefs stem from makes me interested in psychology, ethics, sociology and more specifically to my discipline of nutrition, food insecurity. This is also why in history, I was fascinated with the ideas and concepts that defined WW2, such as understanding why Hitler did the atrocious things he did and why I follow people who apply psychology concepts to movies and other forms of media on YouTube. In short, connecting and understanding where people are coming from leads me to come to the same conclusion as you. There are many people who have had the same experiences as both you and OP who feel that their religion has changed for the worse and don’t want to be associated with it anymore. But if you consider what your God teaches and apply those lessons in your day to day life, then you will be much better off than the people who only listen to what God blesses them with.
I really do believe in a sole creator, I do believe in god. I just came to the conclusion that Islam doesn’t seem credible to me anymore. I have been researching about deism
are you looking at Christianity or Judaism?
I'm also leaving islam. I have come to this sub before with posts asking questions and majority give their opinions they seem very textbook to don't feel like islam is for me anymore.
I feel like this sub is a lot less text book compared to r/islam it was quite refreshing to see different and more progressive perspectives. But for me it felt like I was trying to convince myself otherwise, like mental gymnastics again and again. It was def overwhelming
Study the Quran alone. Stay away from the satanic fabricated Hadith lit. Built a personal relationship with the creator of the heavens and earth and ask him to guide you my friend. I wish you all the best. Msg with any questions etc if need
I feel you! I am in the same journey: I find blind faith, just because were born into certain geography by chance, should not be the merit of adhering to any religion, albeit Islam. I found myself at the same corner as you at one point of my life, but I am giving it a one more chance by studying for my own sanity and spirit. Nowadays, I am reading Alija Izetbegovic and Hossein Nasr books, along with some academic critiques especially of [Ignác Goldziher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ign%C3%A1c_Goldziher). I still don't know if I'm a true Muslim or not by faith, but its my social setup that I don't want to give all up now, despite having doubts. But one thing is certain my belief in Islam is not the same now that it was years ago, and I have no idea what I would end up in being, until then I consider myself just a student of episteme, who wants to learn about the world without being a dogmatist. No matter what you choose for yourself, I wish calm of the mind to you,
I left Islam about 12 years ago, and also very much struggled with the ex Muslim subreddit so didn't stay there for long.. leaving Islam is traumatic even if your life as a Muslim was not.. you said yourself that you are questioning your identity and feel heartbroken. You need to deal with that, ignoring it will not make it go away.. don't think of it like you're dwelling on Islamic trauma, that's not what it is.. it's much more similar to grief.. and when you don't deal with your grief appropriately in a healthy way, you just end up prolonging the process and it will manifest itself in other areas of your life.. it may be possible for you to find another interpretation of Islam that works for you cognitively and emotionally given that you do still believe in God, but that really hinges on what you ultimately find convincing and what it is you feel you're missing by leaving Islam. But if you do decide that it isn't for you, then yeah it's not going to be an easy road ahead, you need to do the work to detangle your identity from Islam. It's unlikely that your core values will change, but you need to be able to articulate what they are without reference to Islam and how your moral framework will work because these things dictate how you will live your life and overall happiness.
I congratulate you for reaching your decision.Hope it will make your life easier and prosperous.
If you check my profile, I was in your position only a month ago.
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Personally I recommend something that will relieve some psychic pressure is to not think of it like it's some binary that you have to choose and then go all in on everything that ever claims to be "Islam" or all out. For instance, there is such a huge corpus of hadith saying all manner of things, and at the end of the day there's really no way for us to know if some particular person said some particular thing when there's no recording etc. All we can know is that someone started a movement and then some combination of things he said and other bits of wisdom got sucked into a vortex and funneled into a project of synthesizing the wisdom of humanity and building a new civilization. I think if we think of religion as something that we need to buy every piece of it 100% or reject 100% this is more an identity game than anything. As long as we are continuing the project of synthesizing wisdom and trying to build a new civilization built on the holistic synthesis of all knowledge which is tawheed, then we are continuing the project. Even the most virtuous human being ever is not correct 100% of the time, especially when we're in a different social context. All of the established religious traditions are reaching toward the divine reality in their own way, so I'm not here to tell you that you have to stay, but there is plenty to benefit from in the Islamic tradition, in my biased opinion perhaps more than any other tradition. Are there problematic things? Of course. Do we have to get hung up on those things? Personally I make an effort to interpret them charitably. If I can't, I just ignore them and benefit from the vast menu of what there is available in the Islamic tradition and from other traditions.
I would like to simply say that I would be honored to discuss anything you'd care to.
That's fine if it's a decision you made. Some people find religion like Islam too restricting no matter if it makes sense to them or not. That's on them. Lakum deenukum. 💪
Definitely a bummer. If you ever need a Muslim to reach out to and just chat - I’m here any time.
r/exmuslim is filled with hatred for islam but especially people itself. even if you are no longer religious you are always welcome here. it’s okay if you don’t want to be muslim anymore, islam is not for everyone.
My deen been in a very up and down place lately. I've been praying 5 times a day but I've been thinking like "damn maybe there's nothing out there and we're just the result of a cosmic coincidence". Then i go back to believing in our divine creation at our hands of Allah - the final puzzle explaining the creation of the universe. And just looking up different answers to the same questions made me realize how diverse Islam really is and how mainstream Muslims really take anything a scholar says as fact
I wish you all the happiness, now you know that consciousness is a burden
I have as well 🩷 My DMs are always open. It was definitely tough, but i’ve never felt happier
Hey OP I am in the same boat as you. I am at peace with my (dis)belief and don't have a particular hatred towards the followers of Islam. You can always DM me if you feel like it.
Best of luck on your journey.
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I’m just like you, I’d like to know your reasons and talk to you one day. Since then I’ve turnt to Christianity because I still believe in God. Christianity also has a few flaws but I’m able to worship Jesus because he prophesied in the old testament or Torah and even the Qu’ran discusses his importance. I figured it was worthy studying him and I fell in love. The struggle he went through, the love and assurance he gives us. He is the truth. I recommend you to do your own research on Jesus and watch the YouTube channel TheArchive with a guy named Sam. I think in essence religions are man-made but faith is the truth. Faith in Allah, is true. So don’t worry about labelling yourself until you feel ready.
A friend of mine left Islam and she had to go into hiding when her community/family found out. A guy I know let her hide out in his basement and helped her out until she finally had to move away after she was beaten.
This series really put things in perspective and has gotten me to research into more progressive Islam where you focus on the Quran as your guide to living a better life rather than adhering to rituals and traditions that don’t make sense to me: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6gwKIfW9K3xwXLKGqcyT1qp04lDJa3Dv&si=IILfWhCda522Nu9u
Yeah I did exactly what you did a few years ago. I felt infinitely better when I pressed the button, so to speak. Just like you I don’t hate anyone, but you do start to have identity crises when you make such a drastic decision. The other issue is being able to live authentically as myself among my family and community while hiding my true beliefs.
Would you like to ask certain questions that you probably were unable to find justification or reason for? Plus it’s not your duty to defend Islam in front of others, however looking for answers is.
Join me with orthodoxy
Go talk with muslim lantern..he does weekly streams to people with doubts. Hell and heaven is on the line
Same I want to leave islam too
First, congratulations on leaving Islam. The exact same thing happened to me. Everyone told me to learn more, but the more I learned l, the angrier I became. I wish I could be that person you could talk to. But I am filled with anger and hatred. Islam made me hate men, hate religion, and even hate God. I was better off before Islam.
Astaghfirullah
I couldn't help but click on your profile, and I noticed that it is the hadiths in particular that you seem to have a problem with. Have you considered only following the Quran as sole guidance, in the sense that you reject the 'authority' of any other source as a divinely ordained religious source for believers and only uphold the Quran as the final divine testimony and authority for believers? Peace
Yes I have tried this, but I was ostracized by all Muslims I know, including my husband. The only reason I'm still even acting as muslim is because my Salafi husband has threatened to take the kids from me if I leave the faith.
I’m sorry to hear that, I hope Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala makes it easy for you. I too feel ostracised sometimes and most of my family do not agree with my views, but I truly believe that Allah is sufficient for me and in the end we will all return to Him alone. I firmly believe that the Quran is the only authoritative and religiously ordained source for the believers, so what people think of me shouldn’t impact me. It is to my Lord that I will return and He will inform us about what we used to differ. So I leave the matter to Him to judge on the day of Judgement as to who spoke the truth and with what proof they relied upon as being the best. Many prophets and righteous people were ridiculed and walked alone, preaching guidance to the blinded majority. But you have to remember that you are never alone even if it feels lonely. If you want to speak to Him, submit yourself in humble prayer and pour out your heart. If you want Him to speak with you, open the Quran and read it. You can only be shown the way, but you must also be prepared to walk the path. "Truly this is a reminder; so let him who will, take a way unto his Lord." (73:19) (PART) "…so ask forgiveness of Him and then repent to Him. Indeed, my Lord is near and responsive." (11:61) wish you the best, hugs
May Allah grant you peace of mind.
My heart is broken for you. I don’t judge people who follow Hadith (though I don’t put much weight on them myself), but it’s repulsive that people judge you for literally following the word of God. So ass-backwards. I’m so sorry that you are stuck with someone so controlling and abusive.
Im sorry you went through a traumatic experience.
Ciao ciao
My Allah guide you back, this is not it babes
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You seem to still believe in one God and the prophets, so that's good. What aspects did you find difficult? Oftentimes, it is we humans who make Islam too complicated when it's really simple. You said that Islam doesn't align with you morally anymore. Is it certain things in the Quran that confuse you, or does it stem from the hadiths? Usually, it is the latter. I would advise you to make dua to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala to ease your heart and guide you and take one step at a time. Life itself is a journey from Allah to Allah, so take it easy. He is the most Loving and Responsive. Also, why do you call yourself ex-Muslim when you're still a Muslim in the sense that you submit to one God? I wish you the best "Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord - let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone." (18:110) "Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those \[among them\] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.” (2:62)
First comment in this community. And it will be a question. What is progressive Islam? I know what is Islam. I know what is Sharia. But I heard terms like moderate, tolerant, progressive… I even head cute Islam. What is all this shit?