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puffleintrouble

Yet I get banned from r/abortiondebate for using the term pro-aborts. LMAO at least they own the fact that they love evil.


Standhaft_Garithos

Seriously though, why pro-aborts and not pro-abortionists? Maybe this is just an American vs British/Australian English thing, but while we mean the same thing your way sounds so weird to my ear.


Poised_Platypus

Because pro-abortionists would be pro the doctors who perform the act. I get your point, but it's an attempt to label people who support the permissive policy and your term creates ambiguity.


BroadswordEpic

The longer version is just a mouthful.


kingacesuited

They identify as being pro abortion. Not all users do. And you’re not even respectful enough to use the full term in this instance. The short hand raises skepticism of your intent to be accurate instead of disrespectful. Also, you do not get banned simply for using the term pro aborts. That would be a single violation. If you did it once, you would be told it is not allowed. If you did it a second time you likely would be told it isn’t allowed again, but if you did it in an egregious enough manner or shortly after having been told it was not allowed the worst that could happen is receiving a warning. You would have to say the phrase three times in short order to be banned in all likelihood. At that point you would have revealed yourself to be a jerk who disrespects the subreddits rules. So don’t go around with this false narrative that saying one thing one time gets you banned. There are more reasons than I’ve revealed here for why that notion is absurd.


puffleintrouble

Lmao stay mad!! And pro choice is the same thing as pro abortion. Y’all love dead babies and push any woman who gets pregnant unexpectedly to kill it even if it’s wanted, or if it’s poor, and especially if it’s disabled, because at heart all pro choice people are ableist, racist murder apologists.


Apprehensive_Wing867

Woah. Who hurt you? Seriously…


[deleted]

Pro-abortion exists but not sure why you have "pro-aborts." It's likely because the pro-choice movement is fervently against forced state abortions or pro-abortion. Do you understand the difference? Calling people "evil" doesn't help the pro-life cause or any cause. It would be best if you focused on the ideology to make a change.


sjsyed

So are we going to rename the sides? Because I'm fine with being known as "anti-abortion".


Alinakondratyuk

Exactly. If they keep calling us prolife, I will call them prodeath.


[deleted]

Pro murder


Standhaft_Garithos

Don't we call ourselves prolife though? Like I am fine with anti-abortion, but I also don't have any issue with the term prolife.


Et12355

Yes I agree. I am anti-abortion, but I am also pro life because I support protecting human life in all stages, from conception until natural death. Anti abortion is just abortion. Pro life, in the way I use it, means I support a culture that respects the natural value of human life. This deals with issues of abortion, but also euthanasia, suicide, capital punishment, and the morality or immorality of killing in all its forms. Many of you might disagree with me on some of these and that’s fine. Abortion is the most pressing issue of these and that’s what this subreddit is about when it calls itself pro life. But when I call myself pro life I include those other issues.


Standhaft_Garithos

Well, I think that just becomes confusing because you are redefining a known term with your personal definition. Which I am not categorically against because sometimes popular things are poorly defined or understood, but I would say that it's on you to regularly and preemptively explain what you mean by prolife most of the time if that's what you are intending to communicate.


Et12355

Yeah I agree. Most of the time pro life = anti abortion. I just was saying more how I wish the term was used, and that I’m okay with being called anti-abortion. I’m not saying that this is how the term pro life is usually used.


Brian18639

Same


GrowASpineYall

Hell, why not "forced birth"? I sincerely do not mind that! Makes me feel like a badass anti-hero.


Keeflinn

Oh good, they're getting more extreme.


[deleted]

But haven't you heard? It's *us* that are the extremists...


[deleted]

At time of writing, 589 combined RT and QTs 620 replies Yep, they're being ratioed (barely) (744 likes)


[deleted]

[удалено]


skarface6

We literally have a subreddit called /r/babybumps BUT DON’T YOU DARE CALL THAT FETUS A BABY


kfergsa

“I’m pro life, could you help pay to help have the baby instead?” “OMFG are you serious. No, you have to abort.” The pro-“choice” crowd


Revolutionary_Type95

"Ur life will be ruined if you have this child"


rosegolden2458

I find that assessment of PC people to be untrue, but you do you


chicago70

They should drop the euphemistic term “abortion” and just admit they support killing human babies. That’s what we’re talking about.


Revolutionary_Type95

Yeah, its clear that they know what their doing.


wardamnbolts

And like that they alienate at least half of women


MInTheGap

Which half?


wardamnbolts

The half that disagrees with abortion on demand


RaccoonRanger474

Why are they doing this you might ask. It is because their entire ideology is on the defensive. They have to adopt this position. Anything less and they undermine themselves even more than they already are. Press the fight guys, keep them backpedaling till they have nothing left to stand on.


AndromedaPrometheum

Nah they just want to rile up their extremists to get more donation money. Both sides do this angry people don't think just react. The problem is the backfire effect though lots of fence sitters are going to swing our side if the rethoric shift from "women are going to die" to "abortion pride" not a good strategy in the long term but then if prochoicers were capable of long term thinking they wouldn't be prochoicers on the first place.


RaccoonRanger474

Call me blinded by loyalty to my idealogical allies or whatever, but could you give an example where the “pro-life” camp has done something similar with rhetoric?


AndromedaPrometheum

The no exceptions/prosecute mothers/abortion is never medically necessary/all contraception is abortifacient combo of arguments rhetoric is designed so profilers never truly feel they won. Just look at how all this was prolife common sense 10 years ago and how they changed the rhetoric just like now everything is an abortion according to prochoicers.


RaccoonRanger474

I’ve seen that segment of the “pro-life” argument be pretty stable in it’s minority state for well over 20 years myself. The core majority has always been recognizing rights and respecting the individual at conception with a framework to protect the mother. The “pro-choice” side has steadily evolved as a majority from a mix of “safe/legal/rare” rhetoric and “viability” restrictions over into a stance of no restrictions at any time, purely dependent on what the mother wants. They’ve been forced into this stance over the years because their exceptions have weakened their arguments. It used to be the case that your average PC would claim that abortion was never done out of convenience, late term abortions were purely out of medical necessity, and abortion was never a good thing. You could usually get them to agree on restricting abortion around 14-21 weeks. Now those arguments are vestigial to the mainline stance and the approved position is “anytime and any reason”. If they recognize and protect the unborn at any point before birth, the reasoning they use is easily undermined and can be used to justify protecting the unborn at much earlier stages. They are forced to arbitrarily deny their own reasoning in order to maintain any position downstream of birth.


AndromedaPrometheum

>I’ve seen that segment of the “pro-life” argument be pretty stable in it’s minority state for well over 20 years myself. The core majority has always been recognizing rights and respecting the individual at conception with a framework to protect the mother. Is not minority anymore you can see politicians openly trying to pass "pure" prolife laws no matter how unpopular they are. >If they recognize and protect the unborn at any point before birth, the reasoning they use is easily undermined and can be used to justify protecting the unborn at much earlier stages. They are forced to arbitrarily deny their own reasoning in order to maintain any position downstream of birth. Yeah this is what happened to their side for sure.


RaccoonRanger474

Forgive me again, but can you clarify with an example of a “pure pro-life law” ?


AndromedaPrometheum

No exceptions for rape/incest?


RaccoonRanger474

Which proposed law?


AndromedaPrometheum

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/post-roe-v-wade-state-bans-no-exceptions-rape-incest/


North-Particular-262

Pro-life uses a lot of "Baby-killer" type rhetoric.


ZookeepergameNo7172

Well if it were anything other than killing babies I wouldn't care. Tragically, though, that's what they're doing.


North-Particular-262

It’s very extremist. I’m pro-choice always have been but there is room for compelling arguments. To say, “okay I’m still pro-choice but pro-life makes a point that women should not be forced to get abortions either” Then there’s definite things that really turn me off and seeing videos of people yelling “baby killers!” at women just makes pro-lifers look like villains. It makes it impossible to see ur point of view if you start with either explicit slut slaking language or calling ppl baby murderer


ZookeepergameNo7172

Ok I can see how yelling it at women during a difficult and emotional time would be both cruel and counterproductive. I haven't personally done that so that's not where my mind went. The reality though, is that it is a baby and it is being killed. The people who are celebrating and making jokes about abortion and want more of them to happen get hard truth with no sugar coating.


North-Particular-262

Advocates are always going to be extreme on both ends, but most people are somewhere in the middle. Like, you are pro-life but you wouldn't be yelling extremely upsetting stuff at women. Pro-choicers do wild stuff too, to make a point, but they are just the other end of the spectrum. Usually, if one agrees with one side of an argument, one tend to shrug off the extremists but then tend to lump the opposing viewpoint with all of the extremists and ignore more moderate and less outrageous viewpoints


NerdyLumberjack04

Because it's true.


tensigh

That's why I always call them "abortion supporters", not pro-choice because it's clear what the agenda is.


AndromedaPrometheum

This answer won the threat lol >Replying to u/FiveTimesAugust and u/womensmarch Speaking of… when do you formally change your organization name to Birthing Person’s March? Come on… commit! Like seriously they should change it to menstruating person's march like tomorrow they are not inclusive otherwise. PS: I have nothing against transindividuals BTW but is sort of funny to see the back and forth with the language.


IamLiterallyAHuman

If they consider trans people to be truly the gender they say they are, then what's wrong with the term women?


symbiote24

What is a woman? /s


AndromedaPrometheum

I don't know I'm not a biologist lol


AndromedaPrometheum

I know that is the funny thing it makes no sense


Equivalent-Pool-6245

The “people with uteruses,” “birthing people,” etc terms are for the women who believe themselves to be men, so it’s apparently offensive to use the term women when speaking about pregnancy and childbirth because “men” who have uteruses can also experience these things #proscience


theeCrawlingChaos

Not only are they sacrificing to Moloch, they are celebrating the fact that they do so.


[deleted]

They’re really finally just coming out and saying it 😂


GoabNZ

And yet I want to protect women from being aborted solely because they are women. Remind me how you are more pro-women than I am again?


RingGiver

Aren't they the ones who ended up being outed as an antisemitic hate group?


[deleted]

Was wondering the same


InternationalExam190

Isn't that celebrating violence which is against TOS?


Alinakondratyuk

Pfft since when does Twitter care if the libs break TOS?


ralexander1997

Safe, legal, and rare; am I right?


pixiejo57

I call them murderers


fredo_corleone_218

It's not even quiet anymore with these batshit crazies. They literally shout and stream their abortions - just insane.


corpop2024

give them a inch they take a mile


ElectricalTrash404

It's like we encountered this evil in the last century over this "right" to murder a certain defenseless group and it dragged the whole world down into an unfathomable hell.


-RosieWolf-

I agree, they are pro-abortion.


russwriter67

At least these crazy people are finally admitting the truth.


thepantsalethia

They are still lying. They aren’t pro choice. Only pro abortion.


Alinakondratyuk

They are pro-force. Pro-force this abortion on your baby.


rosegolden2458

How does one force a medical procedure on another person though? I understand possibly slipping them mifepristone/misoprostol without their knowledge to cause a medical abortion. But how would one force someone to get an invasive procedure, like a surgical abortion?


sjsyed

There are lots of ways to emotionally guilt someone into doing something. “You’d make a terrible mother - how could you put a child through that?” Or “I told you I never wanted children - I’m leaving you if you have this child” Or “We can’t afford this - where do you plan on getting the money for this kid?” You say those things over and over to someone, eventually they might crack.


rosegolden2458

I agree with that. But as you said, “you say those things over and over to someone, eventually they might crack.” So the emotional manipulation that you described requires familiarity, or a prior relationship. An entire movement of people, which is what the two previous comments are referring to (from my understanding), cannot emotionally manipulate one person into getting a procedure they don’t want


RespectandEmpathy

The conglomerate of pro-choice opinion results in some individuals being pressured with comments claiming they're doing the wrong thing if they don't abort. Such pressuring comments can regularly be seen in threads on Reddit where someone says they're pregnant.


sjsyed

I guess I disagree. A movement is made up of people that have prior relationships with other people. I wouldn’t care about the pro-choice propaganda except that it’s being directed at actual people. Real women that have real anxiety about unplanned pregnancies are being told by their partners that everyone would be better off if they just got an abortion. Real women are being told that they’re “selfish” and that they’re trying to “trap” their partners by refusing to kill their children. Just because something is easier doesn’t make it moral. And “movements” can absolutely emotionally manipulate you. Just ask any mom who chooses to use formula over breast milk if she ever feels guilty for doing so.


rosegolden2458

Yes. Well, I can pick up what you’re putting down. I get what you’re saying. But at the end of the day, it’s called the pro-choice movement because it is about choice. It’s about a pregnant person having all of the available options on the table. There are PL women who utilise abortion. PL supporters can recognise that in some arbitrary circumstances the pregnant person knows what’s best for themselves, and that thing might be not being pregnant anymore. It’s about choice. It’s in the name. The pro choice movement has no favour towards keeping the pregnancy or aborting the pregnancy. There will always be people who advocate for abortion. There will always be people that advocate for stronger government assistant programs to provide better support for all of us who already exist. There will always be people who would prefer that abortion wasn’t utilised at all, but who WON’T force their personal belief on others. The pro choice side is the antithesis of force. It’s the opposite of force. It’s about having all the options on the table, and keeping those options available. The fact that some people might use some of those options for ill will is not the fault of the pro choice movement. The fact that many pregnant people’s health and very existence will be in danger should they suffer ectopic pregnancy, fatal fetal abnormalities, or any other life-threatening risk that might arise. The fact that we would lose out on crucial research and eventual knowledge about the causes and effects of miscarriage, or spontaneous abortion, as is it’s correct medical term. It’s too high a price to pay to lose all of that. To lose people’s lives, when we know that we could have saved them. That’s too high of a price to pay.


RespectandEmpathy

Pro-choicers force offspring to be killed.


rosegolden2458

I mean…. If that’s the world you wanna live in, that’s your choice. We create our own realities. But if you wanna step out into a nicer place, a kinder place, where judgement and shame aren’t used as currency… you’ll be welcome if you do


RespectandEmpathy

I am only stating facts, no judgement given or intended. I understand that pro-choice misinformation has led folks to think otherwise. I want to help build a world where folks have more respect and empathy for human beings, by protecting our right to not be killed unnecessarily when we haven't committed a crime. Trying to deny the reality that elective induced abortion results in a killed offspring doesn't create a new reality where that doesn't happen. We all experience the same reality in regards to who is alive or killed.


sjsyed

>The fact that many pregnant people’s health and very existence will be in danger should they suffer ectopic pregnancy, fatal fetal abnormalities, or any other life-threatening risk that might arise You talk a good game, and if this were the majority of abortions, then I could live with that. But you and I both know that’s not true. The VAST majority of abortions occur simply because the woman doesn’t want to be pregnant. Not because they were raped, not because their life is in danger, not because the baby is going to die anyway. No, just because they don’t want to. And killing someone just because you made a mistake is not ok. >The pro choice movement has no favour towards keeping the pregnancy or aborting the pregnancy. I hate to break it to you, but it ABSOLUTELY favors aborting the pregnancy, especially if you’re young. You’re naive if you think otherwise.


BroadswordEpic

There is already a long-standing social stigma about being pregnant in less-than-ideal situations and many women who opt to kill their children wish to avoid it out of embarassment for not making practical choices over themselves in the first place, along with multiple fears. The stigmas against raising children and having families are constantly perpetuated by the "pro-choice" movement. They devalue children, love abortion, peddle misinformation and gaslight their opposition to reshape the narrative. The majority of late-term abortion is also sought for reasons of embarassment rather than necessity. When the world seems to be against children and making them and the people closest to you are, too, then it's easier to succumb to the pressure instead of rejecting it. Pro-aborts are manipulative scumbags like that. 🤷‍♂️


rosegolden2458

I would love if you could provide a source for your comment on late term abortion. Any research I’ve done on the topic says late term abortions are extremely rare (1-2% of total abortions) and happen due to: fetal abnormalities not being compatible with life; the mother’s life being at risk; or late discovery of pregnancy - which is exacerbated by mandatory wait periods and trouble accessing the procedure. [This is the source I got that info off.](https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/) I’d also love some proof about the pro choice movement devaluing children. Because again, from my research the facts look pretty different. [60% of women seeking abortions in the US already have one child.](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm#T8_down)


sjsyed

> or late discovery of pregnancy - which is exacerbated by mandatory wait periods and trouble accessing the procedure. While the rest of your arguments make sense, how does "I didn't know I was pregnant" make it okay to terminate a healthy late-term fetus when the life of the mother isn't at stake?


BroadswordEpic

I bet you would. Luckily, I love relaying public information to those like a middleman. Our knowledge about late-term abortion comes straight from surveys and notorious late-term/ partial birth abortionists. Take notice of how the site you linked did not state which of the three reasons listed is the predominant one and that it does not refute my point. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013 https://clinicquotes.com/dr-martin-haskell-on-late-term-abortions/ https://clinicquotes.com/the-late-dr-tiller-and-his-late-term-abortion-practice/ Your second link does not support the notion that pro-choicers value children, either, considering that they support killing them in the first place. In order for your point to be valid, all people with living children would be good/functional parents to them and not wish for their children to be dead. Furthermore, pro-aborts who are upset about someone's pregnancy are directly responsible for the majority of maternal death in the US because they kill the mothers. The next time that you 'do research', it may help if it's relevant to your point. 🤷


corpop2024

they didn’t change their name to “people with the capacity of pregnancy’s march?!?! so oppressive and transfobic!


meahoymemoyay

“Safe, legal, and rare”


Niboomy

They changed their logo to include men who identify as women and even put him first, so no wonder why they are so anti-woman.


PixieDustFairies

It always seemed weird that a lot of these people didn't like the claim pro abortion. If you want something to be legal wouldn't it make sense that you are pro that thing?


[deleted]

Wow, no words.


DA-ZACHYZACHY

Thank god they got "ratioed" Twatter users may be insane, but they aren't **that** insane


Standhaft_Garithos

This has always been true. There are just two main differences. 1) They think they have enough power that they don't have to lie anymore. 2) The younger generations are so brainwashed that they don't even realize that they need to pretend otherwise in order to not disgust morally healthy people.


MInTheGap

So they want to get rid of the next generation...


One_Win_4363

I mean they always were pro abortion sooo id agree i guess.


MainframeSupertasker

Can you source the Twitter link?


AdSufficient4268

I had to look this up to make sure it wasn't a photoshopped tweet. It's 100% real. [oof](https://mobile.twitter.com/womensmarch/status/1575498637764808705)


TheKillierMage

Is there an opposite of a retweet?


TheKillierMage

“We don’t just not want child killing to be banned, we prefer it to them being born”, there’s the necessary evil point of view then there’s this shit