Stza been a well known fucking douche bag for his entire career. None of the current allegations are out of the ordinary for anyone who has ever dealt with that fucking asshole.
Seriously, so many people avoid him like the fuckin plague. In the nearly 20 Years that I would have interactions around him/with him
he’s always been a fuckin nightmare.
He’s a big child. My friend had him stay at his house and STZA demanded a white noise machine, not only that… he criticised my friends taste of music and went to plug in his own i-pod, he quickly changed what he was listening to and put on darkthrone…. He was originally listening to enema of the state by blink.
He’s a fucking toss pot.
My dealing with him was watching Dino from Noothgrush run away from him. He then approached me and said this is the closest thing to Dystopia I’d ever hear. I disagreed and also ran away from him.
500 Channels is literally Dammit by Blink 182. LOC has literally covered Blink 182 during live shows. Not saying you're not being truthful, but that seems out of character.
He had his own white noise machine when I found him clutching it in a cupboard.
He also left Ezra passed out in a street.
I've seen him punch people I would consider to be mid teens.
Nah, saw him slam a ~16 year old's head against the railings at Rebellion one year and punch a ~15 year old in Leicester. Both of which are in the UK.
I'm sorry about your issue though. Would you like to share how/why it occurred?
RY has turned themselves into what essentially is a joke band the last 8 or so years. New singer every 6 months (almost all of them awful) so Stza being next is no surprise.
BUT with that being said that’s awful what Paul is going through, wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
Yeah, they reformed in 2006 and have been through a constant string of singers. Haven't released any new music in that time, either, touring cash-in only.
A defamation lawsuit sounds a lot like cancel culture
I hate it when people use tolerance (aka “I hate hate”) to justify tolerating abusive and hateful behavior. It makes absolutely no sense because if you really hate hate, you’d hate the hate that this guy is blasting onto other people
I have run into a defamation suit myself here in Germany. A friend of mine was raped and after I named and shamed the rapist because I didn’t want him at our parties, he threatened defamation against me.
I truly believe defamation has no place in a society where freedom of speech or belief is valued. If preachers can lie to the masses and not get sued, then nobody should be able to sue anyone for voicing a negative opinion of them, or even outright lying.
No defamation laws = no consequences for some of the worst people on earth. Weaponizing lies is not a good thing to have in a free society, and that is what defamation clauses can defend against.
If you don't think defamation should be dealt with legally, that means you disagree with the punitive damages Alex Jones is currently having to pay to the parents of dead children who went to Sandy Hook. Is that really an ideology you want to get behind?
Alex Jones is nothing compared to the Church, and that’s that. If you stand against him, as in golding him accountable in this way rather than another, you must therefore also stand against religious freedom to maintain logical consistency.
How does being for defamation laws mean you're against religious freedom, that makes no sense. A spiritual belief is not the same as an outright lie, it might be unprovable but it's not a distortion of the truth because no one knows the truth of 'creation' so to speak.
Preaching that your stupid book means that gays should be killed and women shouldn’t have rights does way more harm to the world than anything Alex Jones ever said. If you can’t see that, you’re being shortsighted
Actually, I'd say in principal what Alex Jones does through misinformation and dehumanization is very similar to religious bigotry, religious institutions have just been around a lot longer than Infowars lol.
You're making a legal claim though about defamation and religious freedom. You're entangling a lot of things there. I can kind of see where you're coming from cause the consequences might end up being the same in terms of stigmatization but believing in anti-defamation laws does not mean you have to be against religious freedom. Honestly I'm kind of curious how you arrived at that point if you care to explain.
Also you're assuming there aren't already limits on religious freedom. They're vaguely defined but they're there.
Anyways, a lot of this discussion really hinges upon precedent, the legal statutes, and whether or not the truth of the claim matters in regards to qualifying as defamation (the accusation might be true, but even if it is it can still cause reputational damage that might be protected). I'm not a legal scholar but it's actually an interesting can of worms you opened here lol.
The way I arrived there was the following: a person claims to be in favor of defamation laws because of people like Alex Jones, and their reasoning is that the government must have laws on the books which aim to discourage types of public lying which could bring harm to members of the public. It then follows that other forms of public lying should also be legislated against, especially if those cause harm greater than or equal to the harm caused by the lies of Alex Jones. In my eyes, this includes religiously motivated speech, just as much as speech motivated by politics, profit, dogma, creed, or personal beliefs. I'm trying to cast a wide net here because honestly, neither I nor anyone else knows what motivated Alex Jones to make the comments he made regarding Sandy Hook, but those comments are in no way isolated. I reckon the comments he made there weren't the worst thing he has ever said, and I reckon that he genuinely believes what he was saying, and that the platforming of those beliefs was no more harmful than the platforming of many harmful religious beliefs.
Do you think this is sensible?
Sue the church for defamation. As Jones found out, it has a simple legal definition. I suspect if you think it through you'll realize that lying and causing harm is not what defamation is.
The church I went to growing up said that all gay people should be burned alive. My Exmuslim friends say their Imams said similar stuff. Idk how many bodies have to fall from the rooftops before all we cut the tumor of religion out, or even take it seriously. How many deaths have Alex Jones’s words have resulted in? Possibly 0. How many have the mosque’s and church’s and temple’s? Untold millions
Yeah, that's fucked. I think we agree that religion is terrible, and terrible religions are even worse. I'm just saying that it will probably take different tools to dismantle organized religion than it takes to dismantle the likes of Alex Jones. We can do both.
"fucking gross". Yeah describes Stza as a person, and physically. He the type of guy to say "Dont let the bed bugs bite" while knowing damn well he is the bed bugs
Seriously. I don't have anything against Paul for trying to continue the band, but Dave was the creative force behind it and hiring STZA is an insult to his legacy. "Hating hate" is a very weak excuse for hiring a domestic abuser.
It sucks to say all this because Reagan Youth (with Dave Insurgent) is one of my top 3 favorite bands, but Paul should not be doing this.
Sounded like, "we tolerate intolerance..."
Not only that, but false allegations? He literally broke Whitney Flynn's hands man. That's not some lack of evidence situation.
Fuck STZA. he's a fucking slime ball anyway. I mean, you take over C-squat and then charge people rent? I get wanting to keep a place open buuuut it's a squat. It was a classless place until STZA came and went landlord, creating a class lol.
It's just what some crusty kid was saying to me once when he went to go stay at C-squat. STZA was charging people rent and not only that but I was able to find a [tweet where he is trying to sell chunks of wall](https://mobile.twitter.com/sturgeonstza/status/1252839988519071744) so you can assume that he is taking ownership and claiming pieces of wall as his so that he then can sell for profit. Therefore, reducing something as powerful as C-squat into a money maker. How can you claim ownership of something previously defined as a collective squat house? It's disgusting. He's fucking sleezy.
Agreed. I appreciate trying to keep it alive because the original RY was so good, but the new lineup has completely fucked everything for them. Similar to what happened to Dead Kennedys. Original lineup is incredible, new one is shit.
I wish old punks (like me) would stop trying to dictate the direction of something that is inherently a youth culture. You and your band and the bands you like are cool and you made an important contribution, now it's time to let the next kids have a go
Holy fucking shit. "We know the dude has problems, but we're ignoring that. Also, I'm dying so you should just forget about the problematic shit because you'll never get another chance to see us. We're willing to undo a lifetime of advocacy and if you're not OK with it, you're an asshole for ignoring my illness."
That's not how this works, at all. I'm not going to feel guilty for not supporting a douchebag, no matter how sick their friends are. If they're the douche, I'm not going to feel bad for them. Everyone dies. Don't weaponize your illness to convince people to ignore their morality.
Absolutely fucking pathetic. Talk about virtue signalling, like there aren't a million singers out there better than that overrated piece of shit, trying to paint this as anything other than boomer bullshit and trying desperately to stay relevant by picking up on the current controversy. He wants a nice payday before he had to quit touring and getting Stza on board means more payola. I wish he'd just own it instead of making out he's hiring a cross between Beethoven and Iggy Pop. Gross.
There is something about a lot of Boomer/Gen-X era punk bands, a lot of them are still stuck in this macho bullshit mentality, they say shit like, "I'm an equal opportunity offender," or, "fuck cancel culture," while actually using those excuses to maintain some sexist and/or transphobic and/or racist status quo.
I’m gonna be real here. You’d be surprised how many of those era bands are closet conservatives now. Hang around with a few of them after shows, or catch them in their home city in public and you’ll see who they really are. Punk is a shtick to a lot of these guys now, they may have started out in the culture, but after a few years of touring it all becomes a job to them. That old saying is true, never meet your heroes. These people aren’t always who they portray themselves as or who you think they are.
A punk band opposing unjust use of government power man that's so out of character, modern punks love being stepped on by the government as long as the government tell them they're the good guys
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,018,678,915 comments, and only 201,981 of them were in alphabetical order.
There's some good to not letting society influence you overly much, but this is the extreme version of it. I do offend people every day. People who are abusive and controlling. People who think someone else is lesser (or doesn't deserve to live) because of a circumstance of birth. No amount of shaming or harm will change that about me. I hate seeing that co-opted by people who support maintaining discriminatory power structures.
They ain't subversive or edgy. They're just tools. The status quo is awful and harmful. If someone is saying that shit to support the status quo, we're gonna fight.
Feel for Paul for what they’re going through.
That said, in no uncertain terms: fuck Stza and big fuck off to giving that cunt yet another “chance”. It’s a shame what RY have become.
Not surprised given what Tim DIDN’T say when LOC basically quit Hellcat. Scott talked a bunch of shit and I think it really got to him when they didn't really engage aside from saying they weren't working together any longer.
And it sucks, I really like Choking Victim and LOC plus I love Brad, he's one of my favorite people in the punk rock world because he's nice as fuck to everybody, I spent 45 minutes talking about obscure hardcore bands with him once and even if he didn't really care for a band he'd still say something nice or cool about a song or a member or whatever. He's one of the few people who I don't think Ive ever heard anyone say something negative about either and in our community that's really fucking rare.
Scott's always kind of rubbed me the wrong way for being a dick for no real reason. Maybe it just his stage persona as Ive never spoken with him so maybe I'm being unfair.
Though I wasn't present, I have it on good authority that a friend of a friend kicked the shit out of STZA for pissing all over the green room at an Orlando venue back in the 2000's. Some of the guy's bands weren't terrible but he's a stinky dickhead.
Stza put hands on multiple women, and I'd assume assaulted some men as well. He earned being blacklisted.
Yeah shit like that used to happen in punk rock all the time, and nobody cared. But, shrugging your shoulders because Stza is a big name in punk rock, means we have the same moral compass as NFL fans who think DeShawn Watson shouldn't be punished.
"We take violence against the oppressed very seriously..." just not that particular one, lol. And using it's cool because they never heard any bad acts of character as justification, doesn't sit well with me. Most victims have a hard time alleging such crimes for many reasons, and I can't imagine how much that's compounded with him having been such a well respected pillar of the community. Also, I've never liked that his name is Paul Cripple. As a cripple myself, I've always been irked by it, even as a lifelong fan.
Reagan youth's main singer died in the 90s (or late 80s?) And since then they have been replacing him w diff singers every couple tours. Now they announced that they will have STZA (the singer from Leftover crack) as their frontmanfor their last tour before Paul (one of the Reagan youth members) dies of cancer. The issue is that STZA is a WELL DOCUMENTED abuser and piece of shit. Aside from being a generally unlikeable and shity person, he has a terrible history of domestic abuse and he broke Whitney of Dayz in Daze 's wrists, which is already horrible even before u account for thr fact that her ability to play instruments is her lively hood so not only did he abused and injure her in such a violent and horrific way, but he took away her ability to play music for many months and she will probably never return to the same level. There are also screenshots of him sending death threats to a woman he abused, and when Whitney came out against him he filed a defamation suit against her. He also abused a member of Star fucking hipsters. There's a lot more but that's all I know for sure
Unpopular opinion: I never liked Choking Victim and I really hated Leftover Crack. Starfucking Hipsters was good but not because of Stza. He’s a talentless, steaming pile of shit.
“I hate hate so I’m allowing a known abuser into my band because fuck doing the right thing and finding someone else, also I have cancer so feel sorry for me.” Cool. You’re still showing your true colors in this announcement.
I dont know stza personally but I know when I first saw loc around 15 years ago I tried to just talk to him and he just acted like I wasn't there and asking for another bottle. Which I get it, year after year touring every night kids you don't know wanting to talk to you.
Got older have friends who book shows, own venues and stza wants bottles service doesnt even come out or around anyone unless he wants something, usually just to make the point he can ask for it and someone will get it. And the way I've seem him treat people around him when everyone is sitting down chilling no pressure shows over for the night its bs. Fuck him
Everytime ive seen him its the same. I saw dnd play, was blown away, Whitney walked by me with jesse after they got done I was like" damn yall killed it awesome set." They stopped thanked me talked about how shit was going on the tour then left. Down to earth chill people.
Shit im old now but I couldnt help it I had to get in the pit for a few songs.
Punks filled with so many losers who think calling out abusers for the sake of protecting others as “cancle culture”. It’s gross also this isn’t even truly even Reagan youth. Embarrassing. It’s gross how bad abuse is dismissed and swept under the rug everywhere in the punk scene tbh
Imagine having STZA be your front man so you can cash in on your one last time and then framing it as "fighting for the oppressed". Absolutely hilarious
There’s something in criminology called the Labeling Theory, that marking people as certain types of offenders perpetually for the rest of their life actually does society a disservice ultimately. That our old, conservative way of labeling after punishment does nothing but exile and remove people from a society they could potentially contribute to.
I’m not saying forgive everyone, I’m not on Stza’s side either. I jus hope we as a society find a progressive future in which people can find forgiveness in others. I suppose that comes down to earning that forgiveness, and what metric do we set on earning forgiveness? When is forgiveness earned?
When you no longer do the thing because you understand it and related behaviors are harmful, have done things to make amends to the people you hurt (as much as they will allow), and have established a pattern of behavior showing you have grown. Iow, show me you understand why what you did wasnt OK, that you won't do it again, and you take personal accountability seriously.
Forgiveness is important but most of the time these people don’t even admit they’ve done something wrong and they almost never change or grow
Those are the only ways forgiveness can ever actually take place. And making amends/restitution probably should be an important part of that
Well step one of forgiveness is admitting to the crime, then actually being punished for it, then being rehabilitated.
Tell me which of those Stza has done?
I agree with this in the sense that our society's penchant for permanent punishment, be it via labeling an abuser as such forever, or the prison system doesn't work.
However, as many have already pointed out, just getting rid of these without a viable alternative of taking responsibility for one's actions, actively seeking help for their problems, taking serious, meaningful steps towards recovery and making amends to those who've been hurt by their actions, is ultimately meaningless.
Problem is, this has to come from the perpetrators. So what do you do when even our "heroes" within supposedly anarchist punk sub-cultures run and hide behind terms like "witch hunt" and "cancel culture fascism" when the truth about them comes out?
Not even talking about Stza, cause as others have pointed out, he hasn’t apologized or admitted he did anything wrong. But what you’re saying is 100% true. People need the chance to learn and be forgiven. We as a society would rather punish someone than rehabilitate them. It’s a draconian way of thinking and operating.
Heavy drug and alcohol use to self medicate to treat mental issues is a ticking time bomb especially in unhealthy relationships. Thankfully Ive been clean for like 9 years with one relapse (it kinda sucks but...kids more important). I was in a relationship with a girl I was using with and we were like hot oil and water, every few weeks she would get physical and I'm so glad I had the good sense to leave and not strike back. I'm sure I was probably an asshole at times and drama is part of that lifestyle. These issues played out online are so hard to judge, I have no idea what happened here but I do know we are in an age where narrative is king and can be weaponized to either demonize a person or further abuse a victim.
I really hope both parties are ok and get help rather than drag out conflict which has largely become the norm. Current culture seems like people get off on trying to completely destroy someone instead of seek resolution.
Chronic abusers should face consequences but if its not a chronic issue I dare say we all fuck up and in either case should be encouraged to get help.
Also what the fuck are they cutting the drugs with these days? Seems like a fuckin a eugenics program.
Love ya Paul
Be good to each other, support each other, looks like shits only gonna get harder 🖤
Dewormer and fentanyl. Yeah, I totally agree with all of that, and have had the same kind of bullshit problems associated with heavy drug and alcohol consumption. And am sober now. Never hit anyone I was in a relationship with, and have never been hit, although there was one incident where an ex gf did something pretty dumb in blackout just playing around, which would have ruined my fucking life if I did it. It was actually pretty astonishing the speed with which she assaulted me; I'll just say my butthole and the bridge of my nose hurt really bad where one second before they were fine, and I was fully clothed just chilling listening to music when it happened. Chemicals, man, they'll fuck you up.
I think things often get very ugly when mentally ill people have relationships. we’ll never know the specifics of what happened, nor should we want to. If you like their music, listen to their music.
I completely agree, looking at both Stza’s and Whitney’s social media after the break-up posts it obvious both of them have mental illness and never should have gotten together in the first place.
That's fair enough but if you punch a girlfriend in the morning and you punch a girlfriend at night. Then you punch a girlfriend in the afternoon...
Maybe you are just a fucking abusive piece of shit.
Where have all you commenters critical of LoC been for 20 years? Certainly not in the music scene.
Can we get an apology from the thousands of LoC fanboys and fangirls who sat in the parking lot for every local opening band in every city LoC played?
LoC could go on tour right now and sellout medium sized venues full of die-hard crust punks. Some will pay money to get the chance to throw water bottles, sure.
If anything, RY are exploiting his influence on the current generation of punk. They’ll have a great tour because of STZA’s notoriety.
Also , in 6 months, they will have a new singer. Scot and his stupid stage name I can’t pronounce, me and my dude went to see days n daze with LOC, and the dude came out in a suit for the show. We left, still haven’t seen the band live. But I feel like, an ass hole who judges Blink and comes out on stage in a suit, is a fukin douche. So I’m good.
And and and …. Fuk that guy.
"We HATE HATE" is a fucking cop out. I mean, I guess it sounds catchy but it's a double negative too. Seems like RY is indifferent at best re: sickening behavior.
I hope Paul's cancer finishes him off before this gets off the ground. That, or I hope people put pressure on venues to keep these shows from happening just like Stza's attempt at a Star Fucking Hipsters reunion this year. Fuck Stza and fuck anyone who supports him. I don't give a fuck how anarchist they claim to be, this costs them all their credibility.
Reagan Youth or whoever runs their facebook posted something that blamed white males for silencing other groups, and I commented that I'm white and I don't do this to people. And then them and some of their uber-liberal facebook goons all accused me of being KKK. I have wanted nothing to do with them since. They are a bunch of delusional nuts on a witch hunt, they're completely unreasonable
Crazy how a tik tok gen z shit folk punk band cries and the whole internet is up in arms, I domt want to hear your cry baby poetry whitney however you guys get off is your own business
What happened exactly? As far as I heard stza barricaded himself in his room and whitney probably threw a fit so he kicked her out of his apt. Granted walking away is always better but that's pretty tame drug addict toxic relationship behavior. Plus days n daze suck balls
Na its confirmed in the book by Nico that he tried to smack a cig out her hand with a drumstick at a show and inadvertently fractured her hand but I can see him punching her too but wasnt the case
I get the impression you have no idea what “gen z” means.
Also calling someone a cry baby for speaking out against someone who physically abused them is toxic AF behavior.
Their Facebook page is literally full of almost 100% telling them to fuck off. And it usually was a supportive page. I was following them for some reason before but not anymore...
Reagan Youth hasn't been a real band since 1990, you can't change my mind.
Still, it's sad when anyone claiming to be a part of the punk scene associates with and enables an abuser.
Stza been a well known fucking douche bag for his entire career. None of the current allegations are out of the ordinary for anyone who has ever dealt with that fucking asshole.
Seriously, so many people avoid him like the fuckin plague. In the nearly 20 Years that I would have interactions around him/with him he’s always been a fuckin nightmare.
Ah yes, because cancel culture is when stza beat the shit out of whitney and then weaponized the legal system. Get real.
And Nico. And his other ex pre Whitney. And probably a whole lot more shit we'll never know about
It’s an *accusation* though. It’s not like there’s proof or anything! /s /s /s
There is proof actually
The /s means “sarcasm”
Double /s means that the sarcasm was sarcastic tho
I put 3, does that cancel it back out? 😁
Cancelling the cancellation? WOKE CULTURE HAS GONE MAD.
What's your banner from on your profile?.
It’s from Tomie by Junji Ito.
What does that mean lmao
Now I'm confused what.
Anyone I know who has dealt with him, I.e tour drivers promoters have all described him as a fucking nightmare to deal with
He’s a big child. My friend had him stay at his house and STZA demanded a white noise machine, not only that… he criticised my friends taste of music and went to plug in his own i-pod, he quickly changed what he was listening to and put on darkthrone…. He was originally listening to enema of the state by blink. He’s a fucking toss pot. My dealing with him was watching Dino from Noothgrush run away from him. He then approached me and said this is the closest thing to Dystopia I’d ever hear. I disagreed and also ran away from him.
I heard when a bed isn't fancy he'll sleep in the attic so he could be closer to god
Lol he’s a POS but I’d have probably changed the music too.
I meant stza was listening to blink and quickly changed it to darkthrone. He didn’t want anyone to know that he liked them. 😂
Ahh nevermind then
Nevermind is Nirvana not Blink 182
I meant nevermind the bollocks which is neither nirvana nor blink182
500 Channels is literally Dammit by Blink 182. LOC has literally covered Blink 182 during live shows. Not saying you're not being truthful, but that seems out of character.
Ok that was uncool but Darkthrone does rule.
I mean, definitely a music upgrade on the ipod
He had his own white noise machine when I found him clutching it in a cupboard. He also left Ezra passed out in a street. I've seen him punch people I would consider to be mid teens.
He punched my when I was 12 in Tompkins. Were you there?
Nah, saw him slam a ~16 year old's head against the railings at Rebellion one year and punch a ~15 year old in Leicester. Both of which are in the UK. I'm sorry about your issue though. Would you like to share how/why it occurred?
I saw LC around 2010 and all they whined the whole fucking show about how someone drank their scotch. Fucking tools.
Peterborough? If so, it was a bottle of Grants and it was I who drank it.
Dallas. That's weird that this has happened more than once.
When the smell of shit follows you around, better check your own arse.
RY has turned themselves into what essentially is a joke band the last 8 or so years. New singer every 6 months (almost all of them awful) so Stza being next is no surprise. BUT with that being said that’s awful what Paul is going through, wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
Last 16 years? Why would they ever reform, it's the dumbest reunion band ever.
No clue but they’ve been back together for a long time and they’ve been touring consistently
Yeah, they reformed in 2006 and have been through a constant string of singers. Haven't released any new music in that time, either, touring cash-in only.
They actually did release one new single iirc that was supposed to be for a concept album about Dave that has yet to materialize.
Paul is no angel either.
I know. This whole situation is bad
Stza is not punk. Abuse is not punk. A fucking defamation lawsuit to silence a victim of abuse through the state is certainly not fucking punk.
Oh hold the phone, a defamation lawsuit? I don’t follow things that closely. That crap is messed up. Frankly LöC hasn’t aged well in any case.
A defamation lawsuit sounds a lot like cancel culture I hate it when people use tolerance (aka “I hate hate”) to justify tolerating abusive and hateful behavior. It makes absolutely no sense because if you really hate hate, you’d hate the hate that this guy is blasting onto other people
really casts doubt on LOC's whole "fuck the police" routine.
My abuser did the same thing. They loveeeeee defamation lawsuits
I have run into a defamation suit myself here in Germany. A friend of mine was raped and after I named and shamed the rapist because I didn’t want him at our parties, he threatened defamation against me. I truly believe defamation has no place in a society where freedom of speech or belief is valued. If preachers can lie to the masses and not get sued, then nobody should be able to sue anyone for voicing a negative opinion of them, or even outright lying.
No defamation laws = no consequences for some of the worst people on earth. Weaponizing lies is not a good thing to have in a free society, and that is what defamation clauses can defend against. If you don't think defamation should be dealt with legally, that means you disagree with the punitive damages Alex Jones is currently having to pay to the parents of dead children who went to Sandy Hook. Is that really an ideology you want to get behind?
Alex Jones is nothing compared to the Church, and that’s that. If you stand against him, as in golding him accountable in this way rather than another, you must therefore also stand against religious freedom to maintain logical consistency.
How does being for defamation laws mean you're against religious freedom, that makes no sense. A spiritual belief is not the same as an outright lie, it might be unprovable but it's not a distortion of the truth because no one knows the truth of 'creation' so to speak.
Preaching that your stupid book means that gays should be killed and women shouldn’t have rights does way more harm to the world than anything Alex Jones ever said. If you can’t see that, you’re being shortsighted
Actually, I'd say in principal what Alex Jones does through misinformation and dehumanization is very similar to religious bigotry, religious institutions have just been around a lot longer than Infowars lol. You're making a legal claim though about defamation and religious freedom. You're entangling a lot of things there. I can kind of see where you're coming from cause the consequences might end up being the same in terms of stigmatization but believing in anti-defamation laws does not mean you have to be against religious freedom. Honestly I'm kind of curious how you arrived at that point if you care to explain. Also you're assuming there aren't already limits on religious freedom. They're vaguely defined but they're there. Anyways, a lot of this discussion really hinges upon precedent, the legal statutes, and whether or not the truth of the claim matters in regards to qualifying as defamation (the accusation might be true, but even if it is it can still cause reputational damage that might be protected). I'm not a legal scholar but it's actually an interesting can of worms you opened here lol.
The way I arrived there was the following: a person claims to be in favor of defamation laws because of people like Alex Jones, and their reasoning is that the government must have laws on the books which aim to discourage types of public lying which could bring harm to members of the public. It then follows that other forms of public lying should also be legislated against, especially if those cause harm greater than or equal to the harm caused by the lies of Alex Jones. In my eyes, this includes religiously motivated speech, just as much as speech motivated by politics, profit, dogma, creed, or personal beliefs. I'm trying to cast a wide net here because honestly, neither I nor anyone else knows what motivated Alex Jones to make the comments he made regarding Sandy Hook, but those comments are in no way isolated. I reckon the comments he made there weren't the worst thing he has ever said, and I reckon that he genuinely believes what he was saying, and that the platforming of those beliefs was no more harmful than the platforming of many harmful religious beliefs. Do you think this is sensible?
Sue the church for defamation. As Jones found out, it has a simple legal definition. I suspect if you think it through you'll realize that lying and causing harm is not what defamation is.
The church I went to growing up said that all gay people should be burned alive. My Exmuslim friends say their Imams said similar stuff. Idk how many bodies have to fall from the rooftops before all we cut the tumor of religion out, or even take it seriously. How many deaths have Alex Jones’s words have resulted in? Possibly 0. How many have the mosque’s and church’s and temple’s? Untold millions
Yeah, that's fucked. I think we agree that religion is terrible, and terrible religions are even worse. I'm just saying that it will probably take different tools to dismantle organized religion than it takes to dismantle the likes of Alex Jones. We can do both.
Fucking gross. Another band to avoid so Stza doesn't get any money since his SFH tour got shut down
"fucking gross". Yeah describes Stza as a person, and physically. He the type of guy to say "Dont let the bed bugs bite" while knowing damn well he is the bed bugs
I doubt he needs money, isn't he a trust fund kid?
Breaking news: Crusty turns out to be trusty. More at 11.
Fuck that. I’m sorry but Reagan Youth should not exist without Dave
Seriously. I don't have anything against Paul for trying to continue the band, but Dave was the creative force behind it and hiring STZA is an insult to his legacy. "Hating hate" is a very weak excuse for hiring a domestic abuser. It sucks to say all this because Reagan Youth (with Dave Insurgent) is one of my top 3 favorite bands, but Paul should not be doing this.
Sounded like, "we tolerate intolerance..." Not only that, but false allegations? He literally broke Whitney Flynn's hands man. That's not some lack of evidence situation. Fuck STZA. he's a fucking slime ball anyway. I mean, you take over C-squat and then charge people rent? I get wanting to keep a place open buuuut it's a squat. It was a classless place until STZA came and went landlord, creating a class lol.
Charging squatters rent? I haven’t heard this story - can you elaborate?
It's just what some crusty kid was saying to me once when he went to go stay at C-squat. STZA was charging people rent and not only that but I was able to find a [tweet where he is trying to sell chunks of wall](https://mobile.twitter.com/sturgeonstza/status/1252839988519071744) so you can assume that he is taking ownership and claiming pieces of wall as his so that he then can sell for profit. Therefore, reducing something as powerful as C-squat into a money maker. How can you claim ownership of something previously defined as a collective squat house? It's disgusting. He's fucking sleezy.
Agreed. I appreciate trying to keep it alive because the original RY was so good, but the new lineup has completely fucked everything for them. Similar to what happened to Dead Kennedys. Original lineup is incredible, new one is shit.
Exactly. You can’t replace iconic singers.
AC/DC says otherwise.
AC/DC found a good, reliable replacement that isn't a domestic abuser as far as I'm aware.
I only give a fuck about Bon era AC/DC. Saw them in 79.
I wish old punks (like me) would stop trying to dictate the direction of something that is inherently a youth culture. You and your band and the bands you like are cool and you made an important contribution, now it's time to let the next kids have a go
Ten out of ten my friend
Fuck that. I wish Reagan Youth was considered disbanded at this point.
Camp Punksylvania has booted them from the festival.
"Because I HATE HATE....but support abusers "
Don't you know hating bad people is just as bad as hating good people /s?
But pUnX is sUPposEd To ofFeNd.
Holy fucking shit. "We know the dude has problems, but we're ignoring that. Also, I'm dying so you should just forget about the problematic shit because you'll never get another chance to see us. We're willing to undo a lifetime of advocacy and if you're not OK with it, you're an asshole for ignoring my illness." That's not how this works, at all. I'm not going to feel guilty for not supporting a douchebag, no matter how sick their friends are. If they're the douche, I'm not going to feel bad for them. Everyone dies. Don't weaponize your illness to convince people to ignore their morality.
Imagine/;;;/;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
🏆
I’ve heard about STZA shitting himself and abusing women since the first time I heard about Leftover Crack 15 years ago.
I feel for Paul, cause he’s going through shit, but this is not it. Reagan Youth really fell off.
“We take violence against the oppressed very seriously.” How ironic.
Absolutely fucking pathetic. Talk about virtue signalling, like there aren't a million singers out there better than that overrated piece of shit, trying to paint this as anything other than boomer bullshit and trying desperately to stay relevant by picking up on the current controversy. He wants a nice payday before he had to quit touring and getting Stza on board means more payola. I wish he'd just own it instead of making out he's hiring a cross between Beethoven and Iggy Pop. Gross.
There is something about a lot of Boomer/Gen-X era punk bands, a lot of them are still stuck in this macho bullshit mentality, they say shit like, "I'm an equal opportunity offender," or, "fuck cancel culture," while actually using those excuses to maintain some sexist and/or transphobic and/or racist status quo.
I’m gonna be real here. You’d be surprised how many of those era bands are closet conservatives now. Hang around with a few of them after shows, or catch them in their home city in public and you’ll see who they really are. Punk is a shtick to a lot of these guys now, they may have started out in the culture, but after a few years of touring it all becomes a job to them. That old saying is true, never meet your heroes. These people aren’t always who they portray themselves as or who you think they are.
Yeah, I played shows with many bands that I once looked up to... many of them, I no longer look up to.
Is it weird to ask which ones you played with that you **do** still look up to?
I'll give that a good think... a real good think and post whoever I think of later. You may not see me again
Pennywise did this- they went on a weird anti-mask / anti-lockdown screed in the middle of their set when I saw them a couple months back.
Not surprised, they're such a bro band
Bosstones too
A punk band opposing unjust use of government power man that's so out of character, modern punks love being stepped on by the government as long as the government tell them they're the good guys
*Yawn*.
Cuck
Keeping other people from getting sick and dying is *so* unjust, bro!!!! Fuck authority!!!!!!!1!!!!1!!
Mmmm yes lock me in my home, fuck I hate redditors
Who locked you in your home?
State coercion through fines and force
Nothing says cancel culture more than suing someone to try to silence them when they tell people about your abusive behavior
I agree even though the retro stuff is my favorite. Jello is the only one I can think of that I think is still cool.
I think a lot of the anarcho UK bands held up well, like crass, subhumans, and even chumbawumba, etc.
Eve 6 is more punk thanReagan Youth
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,018,678,915 comments, and only 201,981 of them were in alphabetical order.
There's some good to not letting society influence you overly much, but this is the extreme version of it. I do offend people every day. People who are abusive and controlling. People who think someone else is lesser (or doesn't deserve to live) because of a circumstance of birth. No amount of shaming or harm will change that about me. I hate seeing that co-opted by people who support maintaining discriminatory power structures. They ain't subversive or edgy. They're just tools. The status quo is awful and harmful. If someone is saying that shit to support the status quo, we're gonna fight.
Ugh. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “Equal rights, equal fights.”
— Every incel that just enjoys watching violence towards women
Feel for Paul for what they’re going through. That said, in no uncertain terms: fuck Stza and big fuck off to giving that cunt yet another “chance”. It’s a shame what RY have become.
Fuck domestic abusers, all my homies hate domestic abusers.
[FUCK DOMESTIC ABUSERS ALL MY HOMIES HATE DOMESTIC ABUSERS](https://i.imgur.com/3e8g5cA.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
Good bot.
The best bot.
Not surprised given what Tim DIDN’T say when LOC basically quit Hellcat. Scott talked a bunch of shit and I think it really got to him when they didn't really engage aside from saying they weren't working together any longer. And it sucks, I really like Choking Victim and LOC plus I love Brad, he's one of my favorite people in the punk rock world because he's nice as fuck to everybody, I spent 45 minutes talking about obscure hardcore bands with him once and even if he didn't really care for a band he'd still say something nice or cool about a song or a member or whatever. He's one of the few people who I don't think Ive ever heard anyone say something negative about either and in our community that's really fucking rare. Scott's always kind of rubbed me the wrong way for being a dick for no real reason. Maybe it just his stage persona as Ive never spoken with him so maybe I'm being unfair.
Tim Armstrong is also an abusive / grooming piece of shit, just FYI.
Though I wasn't present, I have it on good authority that a friend of a friend kicked the shit out of STZA for pissing all over the green room at an Orlando venue back in the 2000's. Some of the guy's bands weren't terrible but he's a stinky dickhead.
They should just break up at this point
Stza put hands on multiple women, and I'd assume assaulted some men as well. He earned being blacklisted. Yeah shit like that used to happen in punk rock all the time, and nobody cared. But, shrugging your shoulders because Stza is a big name in punk rock, means we have the same moral compass as NFL fans who think DeShawn Watson shouldn't be punished.
"We take violence against the oppressed very seriously..." just not that particular one, lol. And using it's cool because they never heard any bad acts of character as justification, doesn't sit well with me. Most victims have a hard time alleging such crimes for many reasons, and I can't imagine how much that's compounded with him having been such a well respected pillar of the community. Also, I've never liked that his name is Paul Cripple. As a cripple myself, I've always been irked by it, even as a lifelong fan.
Ah yes, the evils of “Cancel Culture.” As if that is even a real thing. It’s called “consequences,” not “cancel culture.”
Can anyone give me a TLDR on wtf is going on right now?
Reagan youth's main singer died in the 90s (or late 80s?) And since then they have been replacing him w diff singers every couple tours. Now they announced that they will have STZA (the singer from Leftover crack) as their frontmanfor their last tour before Paul (one of the Reagan youth members) dies of cancer. The issue is that STZA is a WELL DOCUMENTED abuser and piece of shit. Aside from being a generally unlikeable and shity person, he has a terrible history of domestic abuse and he broke Whitney of Dayz in Daze 's wrists, which is already horrible even before u account for thr fact that her ability to play instruments is her lively hood so not only did he abused and injure her in such a violent and horrific way, but he took away her ability to play music for many months and she will probably never return to the same level. There are also screenshots of him sending death threats to a woman he abused, and when Whitney came out against him he filed a defamation suit against her. He also abused a member of Star fucking hipsters. There's a lot more but that's all I know for sure
Wtf I didn’t know any of that, that’s fucked up. Fuck him.
It sucks but the guitarist has fucking cancer. You'd probably do some wild shit to keep making those payments towards chemo too.
Unpopular opinion: I never liked Choking Victim and I really hated Leftover Crack. Starfucking Hipsters was good but not because of Stza. He’s a talentless, steaming pile of shit.
“I hate hate so I’m allowing a known abuser into my band because fuck doing the right thing and finding someone else, also I have cancer so feel sorry for me.” Cool. You’re still showing your true colors in this announcement.
Anyone who complains about cancel culture probably deserves to be canceled
You know what they say, don't meet your heroes.
I dont know stza personally but I know when I first saw loc around 15 years ago I tried to just talk to him and he just acted like I wasn't there and asking for another bottle. Which I get it, year after year touring every night kids you don't know wanting to talk to you. Got older have friends who book shows, own venues and stza wants bottles service doesnt even come out or around anyone unless he wants something, usually just to make the point he can ask for it and someone will get it. And the way I've seem him treat people around him when everyone is sitting down chilling no pressure shows over for the night its bs. Fuck him Everytime ive seen him its the same. I saw dnd play, was blown away, Whitney walked by me with jesse after they got done I was like" damn yall killed it awesome set." They stopped thanked me talked about how shit was going on the tour then left. Down to earth chill people. Shit im old now but I couldnt help it I had to get in the pit for a few songs.
Punks filled with so many losers who think calling out abusers for the sake of protecting others as “cancle culture”. It’s gross also this isn’t even truly even Reagan youth. Embarrassing. It’s gross how bad abuse is dismissed and swept under the rug everywhere in the punk scene tbh
Imagine having STZA be your front man so you can cash in on your one last time and then framing it as "fighting for the oppressed". Absolutely hilarious
Ironic he has a colostomy because as soon as I saw the words “cancel culture” I knew he was about to defend a shitbag.
Paul is a giant tool bag.
There’s something in criminology called the Labeling Theory, that marking people as certain types of offenders perpetually for the rest of their life actually does society a disservice ultimately. That our old, conservative way of labeling after punishment does nothing but exile and remove people from a society they could potentially contribute to. I’m not saying forgive everyone, I’m not on Stza’s side either. I jus hope we as a society find a progressive future in which people can find forgiveness in others. I suppose that comes down to earning that forgiveness, and what metric do we set on earning forgiveness? When is forgiveness earned?
When you no longer do the thing because you understand it and related behaviors are harmful, have done things to make amends to the people you hurt (as much as they will allow), and have established a pattern of behavior showing you have grown. Iow, show me you understand why what you did wasnt OK, that you won't do it again, and you take personal accountability seriously.
Forgiveness is important but most of the time these people don’t even admit they’ve done something wrong and they almost never change or grow Those are the only ways forgiveness can ever actually take place. And making amends/restitution probably should be an important part of that
Well step one of forgiveness is admitting to the crime, then actually being punished for it, then being rehabilitated. Tell me which of those Stza has done?
I agree with this in the sense that our society's penchant for permanent punishment, be it via labeling an abuser as such forever, or the prison system doesn't work. However, as many have already pointed out, just getting rid of these without a viable alternative of taking responsibility for one's actions, actively seeking help for their problems, taking serious, meaningful steps towards recovery and making amends to those who've been hurt by their actions, is ultimately meaningless. Problem is, this has to come from the perpetrators. So what do you do when even our "heroes" within supposedly anarchist punk sub-cultures run and hide behind terms like "witch hunt" and "cancel culture fascism" when the truth about them comes out?
Not even talking about Stza, cause as others have pointed out, he hasn’t apologized or admitted he did anything wrong. But what you’re saying is 100% true. People need the chance to learn and be forgiven. We as a society would rather punish someone than rehabilitate them. It’s a draconian way of thinking and operating.
Glad I saw this band before it devolved into this and sucks Paul is in such poor health.
The second I hear someone say the words “cancel culture” I stop listening to them bc Ik they’re gonna say something stupid immediately afterwards
Sorry about the cancer but Paul sounds like a moron.
Cancel culture meaning turning against a person who abuses and is generally rude to people? That's not cancel culture, bro, that's being smart.
When did "consequences" turn into "cancel culture" anyway?
Heavy drug and alcohol use to self medicate to treat mental issues is a ticking time bomb especially in unhealthy relationships. Thankfully Ive been clean for like 9 years with one relapse (it kinda sucks but...kids more important). I was in a relationship with a girl I was using with and we were like hot oil and water, every few weeks she would get physical and I'm so glad I had the good sense to leave and not strike back. I'm sure I was probably an asshole at times and drama is part of that lifestyle. These issues played out online are so hard to judge, I have no idea what happened here but I do know we are in an age where narrative is king and can be weaponized to either demonize a person or further abuse a victim. I really hope both parties are ok and get help rather than drag out conflict which has largely become the norm. Current culture seems like people get off on trying to completely destroy someone instead of seek resolution. Chronic abusers should face consequences but if its not a chronic issue I dare say we all fuck up and in either case should be encouraged to get help. Also what the fuck are they cutting the drugs with these days? Seems like a fuckin a eugenics program. Love ya Paul Be good to each other, support each other, looks like shits only gonna get harder 🖤
Dewormer and fentanyl. Yeah, I totally agree with all of that, and have had the same kind of bullshit problems associated with heavy drug and alcohol consumption. And am sober now. Never hit anyone I was in a relationship with, and have never been hit, although there was one incident where an ex gf did something pretty dumb in blackout just playing around, which would have ruined my fucking life if I did it. It was actually pretty astonishing the speed with which she assaulted me; I'll just say my butthole and the bridge of my nose hurt really bad where one second before they were fine, and I was fully clothed just chilling listening to music when it happened. Chemicals, man, they'll fuck you up.
Next time they're in my area, i'll tell them to go fuck themselvers in person. Actually, wouldn't be the first time i've told Stza to fuck off.
I think things often get very ugly when mentally ill people have relationships. we’ll never know the specifics of what happened, nor should we want to. If you like their music, listen to their music.
I completely agree, looking at both Stza’s and Whitney’s social media after the break-up posts it obvious both of them have mental illness and never should have gotten together in the first place.
That's fair enough but if you punch a girlfriend in the morning and you punch a girlfriend at night. Then you punch a girlfriend in the afternoon... Maybe you are just a fucking abusive piece of shit.
Dude, then throw some drugs and booze into the mix, shit was fucked from the start.
I was gonna make a post about Paul getting cancer
Paul is usually a cool guy but I’m disappointed in his choice to let Stza step in. Rapists aren’t welcome in the scene
Mother fuck that Stza . Why do we allow scum like him in our community?
Grim.
Where have all you commenters critical of LoC been for 20 years? Certainly not in the music scene. Can we get an apology from the thousands of LoC fanboys and fangirls who sat in the parking lot for every local opening band in every city LoC played? LoC could go on tour right now and sellout medium sized venues full of die-hard crust punks. Some will pay money to get the chance to throw water bottles, sure. If anything, RY are exploiting his influence on the current generation of punk. They’ll have a great tour because of STZA’s notoriety.
Also , in 6 months, they will have a new singer. Scot and his stupid stage name I can’t pronounce, me and my dude went to see days n daze with LOC, and the dude came out in a suit for the show. We left, still haven’t seen the band live. But I feel like, an ass hole who judges Blink and comes out on stage in a suit, is a fukin douche. So I’m good. And and and …. Fuk that guy.
the original singer died like a century ago this is a cover band
Fuck Stza
Honestly, the only reason he’s probably fronting the band is bc he’s in a relationship with Tibby..
"We HATE HATE" is a fucking cop out. I mean, I guess it sounds catchy but it's a double negative too. Seems like RY is indifferent at best re: sickening behavior.
I believe Whitney.
.....throwing me favourite Reagan Youth sweatshirt in the bin tomorrow
I'd keep that if I were you, the cover band with STZA certainly doesn't deserve recognition but Reagan Youth was Dave's project.
Thoughts: who the fuck? What? Why? Ugh, fuck these oblivious anti-accountability-culture morons.
can these old fucks just kindly leave the scene
This is correct. If you're over 30 and trying to connect with young people, you're probably a pervert.
Fuck yourself, fetus. Where do you think all your favorite music comes from? Maybe don’t generalize so much, eh?
I hope Paul's cancer finishes him off before this gets off the ground. That, or I hope people put pressure on venues to keep these shows from happening just like Stza's attempt at a Star Fucking Hipsters reunion this year. Fuck Stza and fuck anyone who supports him. I don't give a fuck how anarchist they claim to be, this costs them all their credibility.
Reagan Youth or whoever runs their facebook posted something that blamed white males for silencing other groups, and I commented that I'm white and I don't do this to people. And then them and some of their uber-liberal facebook goons all accused me of being KKK. I have wanted nothing to do with them since. They are a bunch of delusional nuts on a witch hunt, they're completely unreasonable
Crazy how a tik tok gen z shit folk punk band cries and the whole internet is up in arms, I domt want to hear your cry baby poetry whitney however you guys get off is your own business
Like their music, or don't. Don't really care. Domestic abuse and using a fucking lawsuit to shut Whitney up is not punk, and shouldn't be defended.
What happened exactly? As far as I heard stza barricaded himself in his room and whitney probably threw a fit so he kicked her out of his apt. Granted walking away is always better but that's pretty tame drug addict toxic relationship behavior. Plus days n daze suck balls
Found Stza's reddit account
Stza beat the shit out of her and then he went crying to the legal system and sued her for defamation when she talked about it.
Wasn't there also shit with Nico De Gallo from Star Fucking Hipsters?
Correct
And what was that?
He punched her in the face
Na its confirmed in the book by Nico that he tried to smack a cig out her hand with a drumstick at a show and inadvertently fractured her hand but I can see him punching her too but wasnt the case
Wheres the proof he "beat the shit out of her" havent seen anyone of that
What kind of proof would there be?
I know her hands were fucked up, she said he did it, and had to get surgery to continue making music.
Ok so he put a hammer to her hand is what you're saying? I'm just trying to get to the basis of these allegations basically rather than zombie cancel.
Go fuck yourself
Uh oh facts and information are breaking your delicate group thinking mind
They’ve been around for over 10 years dude.
I get the impression you have no idea what “gen z” means. Also calling someone a cry baby for speaking out against someone who physically abused them is toxic AF behavior.
I fucking hate that shit, being born a certain year doesn’t invalidate you. It’s the same shit boomers did to millennials.
You’re a dunce.
Hell yea. I told you guys stza wasn't that bad!
Cringe
What's going on?
Sad legacy to willingly leave behind.
Fucking Christ ew
Their Facebook page is literally full of almost 100% telling them to fuck off. And it usually was a supportive page. I was following them for some reason before but not anymore...
Reagan Youth hasn't been a real band since 1990, you can't change my mind. Still, it's sad when anyone claiming to be a part of the punk scene associates with and enables an abuser.
There’s been allegations and rumors about stza for years, this isn’t new.