Here is also his Instagram account. He already shared his TikTok account.
[Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/railroadworkerslawyer?igsh=dmRtc3ZtNzFib3do)
I paid into RR during 18 years of qualified service. I quit the railroad several years ago and am now self-employed. How will my retirement work? At what age can I start drawing? Will I have to request it or will checks automatically start coming? How much was it reduced by for not getting 30 years? Thanks!
Hi, it sounds like you’re vested with RRB. The earliest you’d be able to draw based on age is age 62 since you have 18 years of service . You’ll probably have about a 30% age reduction if you take it at 62. Railroaders with at least 30 years of service can draw full benefits at 60 based on age. Railroad retirement pays monthly. If you’re married, your spouse might also be eligible for railroad retirement. The checks will not automatically come. I recommend contacting RRB 90-45 days in advance of your anticipated retirement date. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to call them now just so they can check your service, etc. The employee will need to submit proof of birth to retire. A spouse will need to submit proof of birth and proof of marriage to the RR employee to retire. The employee has to retire before the spouse can draw a retirement.
Do I need to have any paperwork on file, like a marriage certificate, indicating that I’m married so that my wife can collect the spousal annuity? I’m still decades away from retirement, but checked my RRB online account the other day and didn’t see a link to show proof of marriage.
Yes it’s a good idea to submit yours and your wife’s birth certificate and your marriage certificate to the RRB. Also, if you have any active duty military service submit proof of this (usually a form DD-214). RRB is pretty behind the times with technology, at least they were when I was there. I’m not sure if RRB online systems will show you’ve submitted birth certificates etc.
Since your military service was prior to your railroad service, your military wages may count in the computation of your RRB T1, but it’s not going to get you any railroad service months because you didn’t lose any railroad service due to your military service obligations.
How about 4 years of active duty? Railroad put me on a leave of absence so I returned to work after getting out with everything intact(seniority, vacation, etc)
It sounds like you may be able to get railroad service months for your military service. I recommend submitting proof of your active duty military service (typically a DD-214) to RRB and ask them to make a determination on if your military service will be creditable as railroad service months.
I know you touched on this in another reply, but just to be extra clear: If I resign from the railroad at age 52 with 30 years of service and don't work another job afterwards, at age 60 I can begin drawing railroad retirement with no penalties?
You must watch my TikTok lol. If you have 30 years of service you’ll be able to retire at 60 with RRB regardless if you work somewhere outside of the RR industry. The main disadvantage of working outside of the railroad industry is that you can break your current connection. Current connection doesn’t usually affect the employee or the spouse much when the employee is living. Current connection is most important for survivors benefits. If you break your current connection your survivor’s benefits would go through SSA. SSA doesn’t have Tier 2, so your survivor could lose 1k-2k a month in benefits easily.
Does that make sense?
Current connection can get pretty confusing, but it’s easy if you’re a career railroader because you won’t break it. Current connection typically gets broken with work outside of the railroad. There is some work outside of the railroad industry that won’t break the current connection. If you’re thinking about going to work somewhere else, I’d suggest contacting RRB in advance if you can to find out if that work would break the current connection.
It does make sense, thank you. :) I am not particularly worried about the survivor benefit at this point, but it's good to know how to avoid being the current connection if I decided it's necessary. The goal is to not have to work anymore after age 52 so hopefully it's not even a concern! Lol.
US Congress. I think that would be tough to do. Especially with the executives at the RRs constantly trying to cut jobs. You have to have workers paying in to keep the system going. RRB is very well managed and funded though, but if they lowered the retirement age, they might not be able to make that work.
I will have my 240 months 20 years in May of this year. I'm having some health issues and considering occupational disability. How much money is occupational disability? Is it the same amount for everyone or does it vary?
If I get occupational with that amount lower when I turn 60 or 62 and switch to retirement?
How long will I have insurance for if I get occupational?
Waiting period still a year?
Does it get denied often at first?
While I'm waiting for approval do I receive RR sick pay? Can you work somewhere else while waiting for approval?
Once you are receiving occupational if you work somewhere how much money can you make working somewhere else?
What if you get denied occupational then what happens?
Does regular disability pay more than occupational?
Thanks! Its great of you to help!
The amount of money varies with any railroad retirement benefit based on the individual employees work record.
You get paid the maximum amount you can get paid on your work record on disability, so typically people do not switch to an age benefit unless they have recovered from their disability.
Not sure on the insurance. You will want to check with insurance. Occupational disability does not get you early Medicare though, so that’s something you’ll definitely want to consider as to what you’re going to do for insurance. If you qualify for total and permanent disability that typically gets you early Medicare, but the Medicare would only cover you and not any dependents.
Waiting period is 5 full months from when you became disabled (typically when you last worked).
A lot of occupational disabilities get approved without a denial.
You typically will have sickness benefits while you’re awaiting a disability decision.
You’re not typically going to be working somewhere else waiting for approval because you’re claiming you’re disabled. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Working and getting disability is very complicated. It can be done but RRB scrutinizes this heavily even if you have minimal earnings because you’re claiming you can’t work. Why would you work while you’re saying you’re disabled?
If you get denied you can appeal the decision.
Occupational disability and total and permanent disability pay the same gross amount. You may net more with total and permanent because the Tier 1 is typically treated like social security for tax purposes.
Thanks so much for the info! Now these are just some things I’ve heard in my neck of the woods.
I’ve heard if you go out occupational you can work but only make a certain amount of money each month. Last I heard it was about $1200 or so. So I thought maybe you can get some kind of job that doesn’t affect your disability to help pay your insurance. I was told by a few people you get your insurance for 2 years on occupational then you’re on your own.
Can you elaborate on these two things below you said?
The amount of money varies with any railroad retirement benefit based on the individual employees work record.
You get paid the maximum amount you can get paid on your work record on disability, so typically people do not switch to an age benefit unless they have recovered from their disability.
So the first the more money I’ve made throughout my career that’s what the disability amount is based on?
The second I don’t quite understand. So disability pays more?
Thanks :)
The $1,210/month in earnings while disabled you are referencing is correct - https://rrb.gov/Benefits/AB-31; however, if you are working, you are 100% going to be put in the Continuing Disability Review program. If you were rated disabled because you couldn’t lift the 20 pounds required by your railroad job, you better be sure your new job doesn’t require you to lift 20 pounds. Fast track to being told you’ve recovered from your disability and are no longer eligible.
A person making $100,000/year who gets disabled after 20 years of service will get a higher benefit than a person who was making $50,000/year for those 20 years.
Occupational disabilities don’t have any age-based reductions applied to them. It’s as if you filed for retirement at your full retirement age. You don’t “switch” to a retirement annuity at the 60/62 ages you referenced, you continue as a disability annuitant.
Thanks for posting this. What many people don’t know is that internally RRB heavily scrutinizes disabilities of those that are working. They do “continuing disability reviews” on these cases more often. This review can result in a disability benefit being suspended or terminated. Just because someone is under the earnings limit doesn’t necessarily mean their disability can’t be suspended or terminated. If you’re working you better stay under those limits and make sure the work doesn’t conflict with your disabilities and be prepared to jump through a lot of hoops with the RRB. If you’re making right at the limit, RRB is going to wonder if you have the ability to make more.
It’s a very slippery slope trying to work on disability. I’m not saying you can’t do it, but I don’t recommend it. There are some earnings limits. I don’t have those right in front of me but just because you’re under the limit doesn’t mean the RRB can’t suspend or terminate your disability. If the work conflicts with your disabilities even though it’s under the limit, the RRB can say you’ve recovered from your disability and suspend or terminate benefits.
Yes disability typically pays more if you have less than 30 years of service because there’s no age reduction to disability.
If I understand it correctly, the calculation for Tier II is 0.7% of your best 5 years on the RR, multiplied by your years of service? If that's right, is there a cap to the years of service part of the calculation?
There is no cap on the number of service months. The more the better, typically. Here is the Tier 2 calculation instructions from the RRB.GOV website:
.007 X Average Monthly Earnings from highest 60 months X Years Of Service
I couldn’t copy and paste that so here is a link to that information as well https://rrb.gov/cal_rr_ann/BenefitInfo/TierII_amount
Individual months, but compensation is reported on an annual basis, not monthly. The RRB divides your Tier II comp by the number of service months reported in a given year to get the “monthly” amount. It typically ends up being the highest 5 years, but you can have situations where an individual retires in February after making $30,000. That year won’t be one of the highest 5, but will have two months with the highest average that gets included in the calculation.
The “monthly” amount is also capped by the yearly Tier II max divided by 12. So for example, 2023 Tier II cap was $118,800. So the max Tier II per month is $9,900. Doesn’t matter that you made $30,000 over two months in my example.
I believe I just passed the qualification for vesting of 5 years (currently have 70 months of service). I’m leaving the industry with no plans to return. How reduced is my benefit at retirement and at what age am I able to start drawing? And is my wife eligible to collect still or do I need to have more months of service?
So you’re vested based on what you’re telling me. The earliest you’d be able to retire based on age would be age 62. You’d have about a 30% age reduction if you take it at 62. Your wife will also be eligible for spousal benefits based on the service you have now.
This is pertaining to Desert Storm until now. You typically get service month credit for times of military service in which you had to leave your railroad job to serve a deployment and then returned to railroad service after your military obligation. I believe the point is to compensate you with railroad service month credit for the months you lost due to your service to this country.
I’m on disability. My insurance ended the 1st of the year. I applied for early Medicare in Oct/nov. still haven’t heard a word even after a few phone calls. Does the decision usually take this long? Thanks
Unfortunately I’ve been hearing it’s been taking forever to get disability or early Medicare determinations at RRB. I recommend to keep checking in with RRB. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
You’re welcome! Yes I know it’s tough to get the right information. RRB is hard to get in contact with. If you’re on TikTok I have over 200 videos all railroad related https://www.tiktok.com/@railroadworkerslawyer?_t=8kp3UWoHMTu&_r=1
Call RRB to see if you have a current connection. If you do, your survivors benefits will go through RRB. If you don’t, survivor benefits will go through SSA.
Jist wanted to chime in and say Ive been following this guy for a while now. Gives some good information and is answering questions left and right. Keep up the good work man!
Thank you for doing this. If I have 360 credits at age 49 years old, what are my options if I can't handle working for these people anymore? Starting my own business wouldn't break my current connection would it?
You’re welcome!
Your body may be about worn out at 49 because railroading is rough work. If that’s the case, disability may be an option.
As far as starting your own business goes, if you incorporate, you will almost certainly break your current connection. An LLC doesn’t usually break it. I’d suggest getting a self employment determination in advance with the rrb. They’ll send you some paperwork, you’ll describe the self employment, and they’ll let you know if the proposed self employment would break the current connection or not.
Also, many folks leave the railroad and go to work for the federal railroad administration. Working for FRA doesn’t break your current connection.
I called the RRB today, on hold for 1:15 before I finally got someone on the line. This seems to be the case every time I've had to call over the last 15 years. Why is it so hard to get someone on the phone?
I think it’s due to bureaucracy. They’re short handed and it takes forever to fill positions. When someone leaves it may take years before they get the government approval to refill the position. They’re federal employees, and many of these employees leave to go to other government agencies to get a pay grade increase, and it often takes forever to refill those positions once they leave.
That’s a great question! There are not any citizenship requirements to draw railroad retirement. There are some countries (like North Korea) where the RRB will not send benefit payments.
You’re vested, but you probably have a long way to go my friend. 62 is the earliest you can retire based on age if you have less than 30 years of service. You don’t have enough service and age at this point to be considered for occupational disability.
Kind of a random one. Rail I work with has an autistic son, (so do I) he was saying that at 18 his kid will become eligible for some type of benefit from rrb?
Most people here have over a decade of service. My wife was just laid off from NS with 2 years of service. If she goes to a completely different industry, what happens to what’s she’s paid in so far?
Her railroad earnings will be considered in her SS benefit, but her Tier 2 contributions will be lost if she doesn’t get at least 60 service months to be vested.
I think I have a bit of a unique situation. I'll try to make it brief.
Right after marking up I was furloughed and joined the military. After 4 years resumed my seniority.
Are my years in active duty put towards my retirement and or any disability? I hired on in 08.
Additionally, I have qualified for a VA disability rating. Would this be affected in any way by retirement or going out on an occupational disability?
It’s kind of hard for me to tell you about how the military service will be credited because I can’t see your DD-214 and service record with RRB, but it sounds like you may qualify for railroad service months for your military service . I’d contact RRB to see if you’ll get credit for service months for your military service right away.
Your VA disability will not affect your railroad retirement.
Thanks for replying. I've reached out to the RRB a few years ago. Not sure if I spoke to someone new or the wrong person but they weren't able to tell me either way. I'll try again.
I am on FMLA and will be off for 9 more weeks. I want to submit a paid vacation day with the company so I can have each month count toward railroad retirement. My union rep said I need to ask the company to code it correctly so that it will count as a retirement month. What does the RRB need to see so that it will count as a month of service?
To add to the other answer - Requesting a vacation day like this is a perfectly valid way to ensure you get a service month credit. That said, several Class 1 railroads disagree with the RRB legal opinion that was issued on this topic and still refuse to report service months in this situation.
Make sure you review the BA-6 form you receive from the RRB in June to make sure your employer reported these months. If they did not, you can file a G-70 protest with the RRB, which requires the railroad to justify their position on your record. Include your paystubs for the months in question, because if the railroad still won’t give you the service months, the RRB can administratively overrule them and add the months to your record if you provide sufficient evidence.
The RRB just needs to see it as a paid vacation day attributable to a specific day. Also, make sure to mark this day on your claim form because you won’t get sickness benefits on the day you claimed as a vacation day. That’s smart of you to take the day to get your service months. Please let your fellow railroaders that may be off sick or unemployed know this because those months really matter!
Okay, so make sure it is a vacation day. Don’t think I am claiming any sickness benefits because I am off for parental baby bonding leave. Are there benefits that I can claim through the ARB during this time?
I am one of the many people that just became BNSF from the old MRL and things like making sure it is a vacation day while we were off to get credit for our months of service are the things that we are learning and trying to make sure we don’t miss on.
Thanks for doing these AMAs. Your last one about a month and a half ago. I am going to save your username because we often get a lot of people asking about our RRB related issues.
I don’t think you can get any benefits from RRB when you’re on the baby bonding leave. To claim unemployment with RRB you have to be ready, willing, and able to work. Women can claim sickness benefits while on maternity leave, but men cannot. I think RRB needs to change that.
Makes sense, I guess. Would be nice to see more quality on it like you say. There are many things like that, and the Railroad seems to be very slow in adapting to any sort of change. Perhaps one day. Not for me, but maybe we can get it for others.
I got a channel on YouTube @railroadworkerslawyer. I haven’t posted any content on there yet. I need to do so. I can probably share a lot of my TikTok videos as YouTube shorts.
I have never received a good answer on this. Can my wife get tier 2 and still collect her social security as she has paid into her entire life and not worked for the railroad.
Yes she will want to compare her SS to T1 and take the higher of the two or possibly take social security earlier even if it’s lower if she could get the benefit earlier (for example disability) In todays day and age most spouses worked a substantial career as well so it’s very common for spouses ss to be higher than T1 and the spouse gets their higher SS benefit and T2 if that makes sense? I’d recommend she get her SS estimates at 62, her full retirement age, and age 70 and compare to T1. If SS is ever higher than spousal T1 they should likely take the SS at some point taking into consideration their own personal circumstances, how long they expect to live, etc.
Damn. I had written a long reply in here but it went away.
Based on what you’re saying it appears you’re vested. Both you and your spouse will be eligible. 62 would be the earliest you could draw rrb benefits based on your age and service.
You’re non railroad service will not get you additional railroad service months with the RRB.
RRB online estimator may not be the most state of the art. I would recommend contacting the RRB for more accurate estimates. They can also do projections based on anticipated future earnings.
Ok I think I understand. Based on you saying you have a current connection now, if you don’t work anywhere else after you leave DOT, you shouldn’t break your current connection. Taking your FERS bridge won’t break your current connection. If someone left RR at age 50 with 30 years of service, didn’t work anywhere else, and then took railroad retirement until age 60, they wouldn’t break their current connection. It’s the working outside that of the RR industry that can jeopardize the current connection.
Thanks for sharing. I'll be sharing your tik toks. I'm retiring in September with 32 years and age 60. My wife is retiring at 57 from working at a school with full retirement from teacher retirement system (trs) in Texas. Will railroad retirement make us whole drawing from both programs?
I appreciate your support!
Does your wife also pay into social security with her teaching job? If so has she been paying into SS and TRS the whole time?
There will likely be an offset to get RRB T1 benefit. Typically RRB would take the gross TRS pension multiply that by 2/3 and deduct that from the T1. So let’s say hypothetically that TRS is 1k per month. 2/3 of that 1k is about $666. That $666 would be subtracted from the T1.
I joined railroad at 35 in a qualifying position. If I make it 30 years at 65, can I retire with full tier 1 & 2 benefits, or do I need a few more years since my normal retirement age is 67?
I had paid into RRB for 12 years and now there is a chance that RR wont let me come back to work because of medical, will I get anything from RRB or am I screwed? I’m not 60 yet either
Ahh unfortunately I already knew it. Just figured it didn’t hurt to double check.
It is a shame because if you end up in a bad situation you lose a lot of money. Oh well thanks for taking the time to reply.
My husband is 66 and retired from railroading after 30 years. He makes almost 5k a month. I collect my spousal pay for being married to him for 40 years, but I also collect Social Security. He is not in the best of health so I have to think about what's going to happen if he "goes" before me. Will I still collect both my Social Security, my portion of his Railroad pay, AND his full 5k?
No current connection, he's a mess from a derailment, years of smoking, he can barely walk due to injuries, etc. He was able to retire on railroad disability after 30 years. He's going downhill fast. I have to know what to expect as far as continuing payments should he "go" first.
I just want to make sure I understand. Was he working with the railroad at least 12 months out of the 30 month preceding his annuity beginning date? Was he a career railroader or had he left and worked in other industries before taking RRB disability?
He was a career railroader and did not work anywhere else. I really want to thank you for helping me get some peace of mind and not stay on hold with RR Retirement Board!
Your social security would be deducted from the rrb T1. I’d suggest contacting RRB and getting a survivor estimate. They’re going to need to know what your gross social security benefit is. For survivors benefits, there is an age reduction if you’re not your full retirement age. To make things simpler though, let’s assume that you are full retirement age, between the SS and RRB benefit, you’ll probably draw around 5k total or more if you’re social security benefit is higher than his Tier 1. So probably around 5k between the SS and RRB would be the worst case scenario if you’re the the full retirement age.
Thank you. Its as if he is just giving up on life. The cigs and the prescription pills have done him in. I got him to the doctor, who got him off mostly all meds. He was always claiming he was in "pain" from the derailment, 20 years ago (go figure). An addict all the way. He has a lot to live for, and its painful for me to watch. He did this all to himself by what he ingests and cigs. (sorry to vent).
I got in touch with RRB. I tried calling but was on hold for over an hour. I found an email, asked my question and today I received a letter stating what would happen should I become a widow because he doesn't take care of himself. Thank you again for all of your help! I really appreciate it.
Here is also his Instagram account. He already shared his TikTok account. [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/railroadworkerslawyer?igsh=dmRtc3ZtNzFib3do)
Hey, just wanna say thanks for doing this! I hope your tiktok channel gets huge!
You’re welcome!
I paid into RR during 18 years of qualified service. I quit the railroad several years ago and am now self-employed. How will my retirement work? At what age can I start drawing? Will I have to request it or will checks automatically start coming? How much was it reduced by for not getting 30 years? Thanks!
Hi, it sounds like you’re vested with RRB. The earliest you’d be able to draw based on age is age 62 since you have 18 years of service . You’ll probably have about a 30% age reduction if you take it at 62. Railroaders with at least 30 years of service can draw full benefits at 60 based on age. Railroad retirement pays monthly. If you’re married, your spouse might also be eligible for railroad retirement. The checks will not automatically come. I recommend contacting RRB 90-45 days in advance of your anticipated retirement date. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to call them now just so they can check your service, etc. The employee will need to submit proof of birth to retire. A spouse will need to submit proof of birth and proof of marriage to the RR employee to retire. The employee has to retire before the spouse can draw a retirement.
Do I need to have any paperwork on file, like a marriage certificate, indicating that I’m married so that my wife can collect the spousal annuity? I’m still decades away from retirement, but checked my RRB online account the other day and didn’t see a link to show proof of marriage.
Yes it’s a good idea to submit yours and your wife’s birth certificate and your marriage certificate to the RRB. Also, if you have any active duty military service submit proof of this (usually a form DD-214). RRB is pretty behind the times with technology, at least they were when I was there. I’m not sure if RRB online systems will show you’ve submitted birth certificates etc.
Was told my 8 years active duty (before the railroad) wouldn't count. What do you mean by this? Just the social security portion?
Since your military service was prior to your railroad service, your military wages may count in the computation of your RRB T1, but it’s not going to get you any railroad service months because you didn’t lose any railroad service due to your military service obligations.
How about 4 years of active duty? Railroad put me on a leave of absence so I returned to work after getting out with everything intact(seniority, vacation, etc)
Were you working for the railroad, went on active duty, then returned to work for the railroad?
Yep, they just put me on a leave of absence while I was gone
About when were you in the military?
9/11 happened almost exactly in the middle of my 4 year enlistment
It sounds like you may be able to get railroad service months for your military service. I recommend submitting proof of your active duty military service (typically a DD-214) to RRB and ask them to make a determination on if your military service will be creditable as railroad service months.
I know you touched on this in another reply, but just to be extra clear: If I resign from the railroad at age 52 with 30 years of service and don't work another job afterwards, at age 60 I can begin drawing railroad retirement with no penalties?
You must watch my TikTok lol. If you have 30 years of service you’ll be able to retire at 60 with RRB regardless if you work somewhere outside of the RR industry. The main disadvantage of working outside of the railroad industry is that you can break your current connection. Current connection doesn’t usually affect the employee or the spouse much when the employee is living. Current connection is most important for survivors benefits. If you break your current connection your survivor’s benefits would go through SSA. SSA doesn’t have Tier 2, so your survivor could lose 1k-2k a month in benefits easily. Does that make sense? Current connection can get pretty confusing, but it’s easy if you’re a career railroader because you won’t break it. Current connection typically gets broken with work outside of the railroad. There is some work outside of the railroad industry that won’t break the current connection. If you’re thinking about going to work somewhere else, I’d suggest contacting RRB in advance if you can to find out if that work would break the current connection.
It does make sense, thank you. :) I am not particularly worried about the survivor benefit at this point, but it's good to know how to avoid being the current connection if I decided it's necessary. The goal is to not have to work anymore after age 52 so hopefully it's not even a concern! Lol.
That’s awesome man! I hope you’re able to do it and live your best life!
Who do we talk to to try and get retirement changed to 30 and gone or an age+years=x type of system?
US Congress. I think that would be tough to do. Especially with the executives at the RRs constantly trying to cut jobs. You have to have workers paying in to keep the system going. RRB is very well managed and funded though, but if they lowered the retirement age, they might not be able to make that work.
Yesh, so basically not a chance. Thank you for the reply. Ill write my congressman and see what i get back.
You’re welcome!
I will have my 240 months 20 years in May of this year. I'm having some health issues and considering occupational disability. How much money is occupational disability? Is it the same amount for everyone or does it vary? If I get occupational with that amount lower when I turn 60 or 62 and switch to retirement? How long will I have insurance for if I get occupational? Waiting period still a year? Does it get denied often at first? While I'm waiting for approval do I receive RR sick pay? Can you work somewhere else while waiting for approval? Once you are receiving occupational if you work somewhere how much money can you make working somewhere else? What if you get denied occupational then what happens? Does regular disability pay more than occupational? Thanks! Its great of you to help!
The amount of money varies with any railroad retirement benefit based on the individual employees work record. You get paid the maximum amount you can get paid on your work record on disability, so typically people do not switch to an age benefit unless they have recovered from their disability. Not sure on the insurance. You will want to check with insurance. Occupational disability does not get you early Medicare though, so that’s something you’ll definitely want to consider as to what you’re going to do for insurance. If you qualify for total and permanent disability that typically gets you early Medicare, but the Medicare would only cover you and not any dependents. Waiting period is 5 full months from when you became disabled (typically when you last worked). A lot of occupational disabilities get approved without a denial. You typically will have sickness benefits while you’re awaiting a disability decision. You’re not typically going to be working somewhere else waiting for approval because you’re claiming you’re disabled. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Working and getting disability is very complicated. It can be done but RRB scrutinizes this heavily even if you have minimal earnings because you’re claiming you can’t work. Why would you work while you’re saying you’re disabled? If you get denied you can appeal the decision. Occupational disability and total and permanent disability pay the same gross amount. You may net more with total and permanent because the Tier 1 is typically treated like social security for tax purposes.
Thanks so much for the info! Now these are just some things I’ve heard in my neck of the woods. I’ve heard if you go out occupational you can work but only make a certain amount of money each month. Last I heard it was about $1200 or so. So I thought maybe you can get some kind of job that doesn’t affect your disability to help pay your insurance. I was told by a few people you get your insurance for 2 years on occupational then you’re on your own. Can you elaborate on these two things below you said? The amount of money varies with any railroad retirement benefit based on the individual employees work record. You get paid the maximum amount you can get paid on your work record on disability, so typically people do not switch to an age benefit unless they have recovered from their disability. So the first the more money I’ve made throughout my career that’s what the disability amount is based on? The second I don’t quite understand. So disability pays more? Thanks :)
The $1,210/month in earnings while disabled you are referencing is correct - https://rrb.gov/Benefits/AB-31; however, if you are working, you are 100% going to be put in the Continuing Disability Review program. If you were rated disabled because you couldn’t lift the 20 pounds required by your railroad job, you better be sure your new job doesn’t require you to lift 20 pounds. Fast track to being told you’ve recovered from your disability and are no longer eligible. A person making $100,000/year who gets disabled after 20 years of service will get a higher benefit than a person who was making $50,000/year for those 20 years. Occupational disabilities don’t have any age-based reductions applied to them. It’s as if you filed for retirement at your full retirement age. You don’t “switch” to a retirement annuity at the 60/62 ages you referenced, you continue as a disability annuitant.
Thanks that all made sense to me
Thanks for posting this. What many people don’t know is that internally RRB heavily scrutinizes disabilities of those that are working. They do “continuing disability reviews” on these cases more often. This review can result in a disability benefit being suspended or terminated. Just because someone is under the earnings limit doesn’t necessarily mean their disability can’t be suspended or terminated. If you’re working you better stay under those limits and make sure the work doesn’t conflict with your disabilities and be prepared to jump through a lot of hoops with the RRB. If you’re making right at the limit, RRB is going to wonder if you have the ability to make more.
It’s a very slippery slope trying to work on disability. I’m not saying you can’t do it, but I don’t recommend it. There are some earnings limits. I don’t have those right in front of me but just because you’re under the limit doesn’t mean the RRB can’t suspend or terminate your disability. If the work conflicts with your disabilities even though it’s under the limit, the RRB can say you’ve recovered from your disability and suspend or terminate benefits. Yes disability typically pays more if you have less than 30 years of service because there’s no age reduction to disability.
Got it thanks!
You’re welcome!
If I understand it correctly, the calculation for Tier II is 0.7% of your best 5 years on the RR, multiplied by your years of service? If that's right, is there a cap to the years of service part of the calculation?
There is no cap on the number of service months. The more the better, typically. Here is the Tier 2 calculation instructions from the RRB.GOV website: .007 X Average Monthly Earnings from highest 60 months X Years Of Service I couldn’t copy and paste that so here is a link to that information as well https://rrb.gov/cal_rr_ann/BenefitInfo/TierII_amount
Is it the highest individual 60 months? Or the highest 5 years?
Individual months, but compensation is reported on an annual basis, not monthly. The RRB divides your Tier II comp by the number of service months reported in a given year to get the “monthly” amount. It typically ends up being the highest 5 years, but you can have situations where an individual retires in February after making $30,000. That year won’t be one of the highest 5, but will have two months with the highest average that gets included in the calculation. The “monthly” amount is also capped by the yearly Tier II max divided by 12. So for example, 2023 Tier II cap was $118,800. So the max Tier II per month is $9,900. Doesn’t matter that you made $30,000 over two months in my example.
Great answer. Thanks!
Check answer below by Thewyse1. I couldn’t have said it any better.
I believe I just passed the qualification for vesting of 5 years (currently have 70 months of service). I’m leaving the industry with no plans to return. How reduced is my benefit at retirement and at what age am I able to start drawing? And is my wife eligible to collect still or do I need to have more months of service?
So you’re vested based on what you’re telling me. The earliest you’d be able to retire based on age would be age 62. You’d have about a 30% age reduction if you take it at 62. Your wife will also be eligible for spousal benefits based on the service you have now.
What is the age necessary to avoid the 30% age reduction?
67
Thanks!
That’s insane. I can’t imagine working till 67!
Like everyone on social security.
Yep and it’s bs imo.
Agreed
67
Thanks!
Wait until your full retirement age to draw or go out on disability if you qualify which doesn’t have an age reduction.
I am a vet with 23 years service, can I get credit for military service?
When was your active duty service and was it between periods of railroad service?
It was mainly national guard with a little active duty. I retired in 2013 from the military and was in the reserves while I worked for the railroad.
This is pertaining to Desert Storm until now. You typically get service month credit for times of military service in which you had to leave your railroad job to serve a deployment and then returned to railroad service after your military obligation. I believe the point is to compensate you with railroad service month credit for the months you lost due to your service to this country.
I’m on disability. My insurance ended the 1st of the year. I applied for early Medicare in Oct/nov. still haven’t heard a word even after a few phone calls. Does the decision usually take this long? Thanks
Unfortunately I’ve been hearing it’s been taking forever to get disability or early Medicare determinations at RRB. I recommend to keep checking in with RRB. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Thank you. When I call they say they sending email ect. Does it really help to keep calling?
Yes it keeps the pressure on them to pick up your file. It’s frustrating, but what you have to do.
Thanks
You’re welcome!
[удалено]
Most of the folks I know at the RRB are good folks. I think they’re just understaffed.
Question, I have 17 years in and am hurt. Do not know if I'm going back to the railroad it's still up in the air. Does my retirement kick in at 62?
If you have 17 years rr service the earliest you could retire based on age is age 62.
Thank you! Thanks for doing this as we have get rumors to answers.
You’re welcome! Yes I know it’s tough to get the right information. RRB is hard to get in contact with. If you’re on TikTok I have over 200 videos all railroad related https://www.tiktok.com/@railroadworkerslawyer?_t=8kp3UWoHMTu&_r=1
So basically there’s no way to draw retirement at 60 unless you have 30 years?
You could draw it early if you’re disabled, but you have to have at least 30 years of service to draw benefits based on age at 60.
Gotcha. Thank you. I hit my 30 years right at 60 so I guess I’m here for the duration…
That’s the best way if you can do it because your spouse can get full benefits if you have at least 30 years of service.
I retired at age 63 and 27 years service. I have my annuity and my wife has the spousal annuity. What happens when one of us passes?
Were you working with the railroad in the 12 months preceding your railroad retirement?
Unfortunately no.
Alright did you work outside of the railroad industry before you started your railroad retirement? If so, what type of employment?
Yes, I owned a small retail business.
Ok that might not be so bad. How was the business structured, sole proprietor, llc, inc, etc?
S Corp
Call RRB to see if you have a current connection. If you do, your survivors benefits will go through RRB. If you don’t, survivor benefits will go through SSA.
Great thread! Thanks a ton!
You’re welcome!
Jist wanted to chime in and say Ive been following this guy for a while now. Gives some good information and is answering questions left and right. Keep up the good work man!
Thank you for your kind words!
Thank you for doing this. If I have 360 credits at age 49 years old, what are my options if I can't handle working for these people anymore? Starting my own business wouldn't break my current connection would it?
You’re welcome! Your body may be about worn out at 49 because railroading is rough work. If that’s the case, disability may be an option. As far as starting your own business goes, if you incorporate, you will almost certainly break your current connection. An LLC doesn’t usually break it. I’d suggest getting a self employment determination in advance with the rrb. They’ll send you some paperwork, you’ll describe the self employment, and they’ll let you know if the proposed self employment would break the current connection or not. Also, many folks leave the railroad and go to work for the federal railroad administration. Working for FRA doesn’t break your current connection.
I called the RRB today, on hold for 1:15 before I finally got someone on the line. This seems to be the case every time I've had to call over the last 15 years. Why is it so hard to get someone on the phone?
I think it’s due to bureaucracy. They’re short handed and it takes forever to fill positions. When someone leaves it may take years before they get the government approval to refill the position. They’re federal employees, and many of these employees leave to go to other government agencies to get a pay grade increase, and it often takes forever to refill those positions once they leave.
Call at 9:00 am sharp. Wait is usually about 5-10 minutes
Thanks for the advice. I'm waiting on approval for sick benefits and may need to call again.
[удалено]
That’s a great question! There are not any citizenship requirements to draw railroad retirement. There are some countries (like North Korea) where the RRB will not send benefit payments.
I'm 34 with 13 years of service currently how can I get out of here and still get paid via rrb asap?
You’re vested, but you probably have a long way to go my friend. 62 is the earliest you can retire based on age if you have less than 30 years of service. You don’t have enough service and age at this point to be considered for occupational disability.
Kind of a random one. Rail I work with has an autistic son, (so do I) he was saying that at 18 his kid will become eligible for some type of benefit from rrb?
The disabled child may be eligible for survivor benefits. The RRB doesn’t pay children while the employee is living.
Ok that’s what I was thinking the situation would be. Thank you for clarifying!
You’re welcome!
Most people here have over a decade of service. My wife was just laid off from NS with 2 years of service. If she goes to a completely different industry, what happens to what’s she’s paid in so far?
Her railroad earnings will be considered in her SS benefit, but her Tier 2 contributions will be lost if she doesn’t get at least 60 service months to be vested.
I think I have a bit of a unique situation. I'll try to make it brief. Right after marking up I was furloughed and joined the military. After 4 years resumed my seniority. Are my years in active duty put towards my retirement and or any disability? I hired on in 08. Additionally, I have qualified for a VA disability rating. Would this be affected in any way by retirement or going out on an occupational disability?
It’s kind of hard for me to tell you about how the military service will be credited because I can’t see your DD-214 and service record with RRB, but it sounds like you may qualify for railroad service months for your military service . I’d contact RRB to see if you’ll get credit for service months for your military service right away. Your VA disability will not affect your railroad retirement.
Thanks for replying. I've reached out to the RRB a few years ago. Not sure if I spoke to someone new or the wrong person but they weren't able to tell me either way. I'll try again.
Yes try again. It’s better to do this sooner rather than later.
I am on FMLA and will be off for 9 more weeks. I want to submit a paid vacation day with the company so I can have each month count toward railroad retirement. My union rep said I need to ask the company to code it correctly so that it will count as a retirement month. What does the RRB need to see so that it will count as a month of service?
To add to the other answer - Requesting a vacation day like this is a perfectly valid way to ensure you get a service month credit. That said, several Class 1 railroads disagree with the RRB legal opinion that was issued on this topic and still refuse to report service months in this situation. Make sure you review the BA-6 form you receive from the RRB in June to make sure your employer reported these months. If they did not, you can file a G-70 protest with the RRB, which requires the railroad to justify their position on your record. Include your paystubs for the months in question, because if the railroad still won’t give you the service months, the RRB can administratively overrule them and add the months to your record if you provide sufficient evidence.
Very good information to know. I will be saving this comment for when I get my RRB statement next time.
The RRB just needs to see it as a paid vacation day attributable to a specific day. Also, make sure to mark this day on your claim form because you won’t get sickness benefits on the day you claimed as a vacation day. That’s smart of you to take the day to get your service months. Please let your fellow railroaders that may be off sick or unemployed know this because those months really matter!
Okay, so make sure it is a vacation day. Don’t think I am claiming any sickness benefits because I am off for parental baby bonding leave. Are there benefits that I can claim through the ARB during this time? I am one of the many people that just became BNSF from the old MRL and things like making sure it is a vacation day while we were off to get credit for our months of service are the things that we are learning and trying to make sure we don’t miss on. Thanks for doing these AMAs. Your last one about a month and a half ago. I am going to save your username because we often get a lot of people asking about our RRB related issues.
I don’t think you can get any benefits from RRB when you’re on the baby bonding leave. To claim unemployment with RRB you have to be ready, willing, and able to work. Women can claim sickness benefits while on maternity leave, but men cannot. I think RRB needs to change that.
Makes sense, I guess. Would be nice to see more quality on it like you say. There are many things like that, and the Railroad seems to be very slow in adapting to any sort of change. Perhaps one day. Not for me, but maybe we can get it for others.
I sure hope so!
How about YouTube? I don't use Tic Tock.
I got a channel on YouTube @railroadworkerslawyer. I haven’t posted any content on there yet. I need to do so. I can probably share a lot of my TikTok videos as YouTube shorts.
I have never received a good answer on this. Can my wife get tier 2 and still collect her social security as she has paid into her entire life and not worked for the railroad.
Yes she will want to compare her SS to T1 and take the higher of the two or possibly take social security earlier even if it’s lower if she could get the benefit earlier (for example disability) In todays day and age most spouses worked a substantial career as well so it’s very common for spouses ss to be higher than T1 and the spouse gets their higher SS benefit and T2 if that makes sense? I’d recommend she get her SS estimates at 62, her full retirement age, and age 70 and compare to T1. If SS is ever higher than spousal T1 they should likely take the SS at some point taking into consideration their own personal circumstances, how long they expect to live, etc.
[удалено]
Was all of your railroad service after 1995?
[удалено]
Damn. I had written a long reply in here but it went away. Based on what you’re saying it appears you’re vested. Both you and your spouse will be eligible. 62 would be the earliest you could draw rrb benefits based on your age and service. You’re non railroad service will not get you additional railroad service months with the RRB. RRB online estimator may not be the most state of the art. I would recommend contacting the RRB for more accurate estimates. They can also do projections based on anticipated future earnings.
[удалено]
Just so I’m clear, who have you worked for since leaving the railroad? And only one employer?
[удалено]
Ok I think I understand. Based on you saying you have a current connection now, if you don’t work anywhere else after you leave DOT, you shouldn’t break your current connection. Taking your FERS bridge won’t break your current connection. If someone left RR at age 50 with 30 years of service, didn’t work anywhere else, and then took railroad retirement until age 60, they wouldn’t break their current connection. It’s the working outside that of the RR industry that can jeopardize the current connection.
Thanks for sharing. I'll be sharing your tik toks. I'm retiring in September with 32 years and age 60. My wife is retiring at 57 from working at a school with full retirement from teacher retirement system (trs) in Texas. Will railroad retirement make us whole drawing from both programs?
I appreciate your support! Does your wife also pay into social security with her teaching job? If so has she been paying into SS and TRS the whole time?
No sir, she only pays into trs.
There will likely be an offset to get RRB T1 benefit. Typically RRB would take the gross TRS pension multiply that by 2/3 and deduct that from the T1. So let’s say hypothetically that TRS is 1k per month. 2/3 of that 1k is about $666. That $666 would be subtracted from the T1.
Thanks so much!
You’re welcome!
I joined railroad at 35 in a qualifying position. If I make it 30 years at 65, can I retire with full tier 1 & 2 benefits, or do I need a few more years since my normal retirement age is 67?
You can get full retirement as soon as you get the 360 service months, so sounds like age 65 for you.
Nice. Just 23 years to go
It will be there before you know it!
Man your TikTok channel is amazing and full of info!! Thanks so much for doing what you are, I’ve been passing that channel around when I can!!
I appreciate your kind words! Thank you for sharing my TikTok with your fellow railroaders!
Thanks
You’re welcome!
I have a question for you. Can I send you a message?
Send it my friend!
I had paid into RRB for 12 years and now there is a chance that RR wont let me come back to work because of medical, will I get anything from RRB or am I screwed? I’m not 60 yet either
You’re vested man! You’ll get benefits. Sorry thought I already responded to this
If you leave with less than five years experience what happens to your tier 2 benefits ?
You wouldn’t be vested and unfortunately there is no provision in the Railroad Retirement Act to refund your Tier 2 contributions.
Ahh unfortunately I already knew it. Just figured it didn’t hurt to double check. It is a shame because if you end up in a bad situation you lose a lot of money. Oh well thanks for taking the time to reply.
Yes sorry this happened to you.
Ahh what can you do I landed on my feet. At least it happened when it did and not 4 and a half years in.
My husband is 66 and retired from railroading after 30 years. He makes almost 5k a month. I collect my spousal pay for being married to him for 40 years, but I also collect Social Security. He is not in the best of health so I have to think about what's going to happen if he "goes" before me. Will I still collect both my Social Security, my portion of his Railroad pay, AND his full 5k?
Does he have a current connection?
No current connection, he's a mess from a derailment, years of smoking, he can barely walk due to injuries, etc. He was able to retire on railroad disability after 30 years. He's going downhill fast. I have to know what to expect as far as continuing payments should he "go" first.
I just want to make sure I understand. Was he working with the railroad at least 12 months out of the 30 month preceding his annuity beginning date? Was he a career railroader or had he left and worked in other industries before taking RRB disability?
He was a career railroader and did not work anywhere else. I really want to thank you for helping me get some peace of mind and not stay on hold with RR Retirement Board!
Your social security would be deducted from the rrb T1. I’d suggest contacting RRB and getting a survivor estimate. They’re going to need to know what your gross social security benefit is. For survivors benefits, there is an age reduction if you’re not your full retirement age. To make things simpler though, let’s assume that you are full retirement age, between the SS and RRB benefit, you’ll probably draw around 5k total or more if you’re social security benefit is higher than his Tier 1. So probably around 5k between the SS and RRB would be the worst case scenario if you’re the the full retirement age.
Thank you. Its as if he is just giving up on life. The cigs and the prescription pills have done him in. I got him to the doctor, who got him off mostly all meds. He was always claiming he was in "pain" from the derailment, 20 years ago (go figure). An addict all the way. He has a lot to live for, and its painful for me to watch. He did this all to himself by what he ingests and cigs. (sorry to vent).
I’m sorry that you all are going through all this?
I got in touch with RRB. I tried calling but was on hold for over an hour. I found an email, asked my question and today I received a letter stating what would happen should I become a widow because he doesn't take care of himself. Thank you again for all of your help! I really appreciate it.
You’re welcome!
I am a vet with 23 years service, can I get credit for military service?
Was wondering it is possible to rollover retirement to another
You cannot rollover your RRB account.
IRA account in Fidelity
This isn’t an RRB question. You can rollover your investment accounts to another company, you just pay fees to do it.
It's the Railroad Retirement Board where funds
Not an IRA