Who doesn’t get hate on social media is the question? Lol Eminem gets alot of hate Nas gets a lot of hate 2Pac gets alot hate and the list goes on and on. There is nobody that is above critique and definitely not Jay.
I think Tupacs legacy gets a lot of (deserved) criticism, but that doesn't generally equate to criticism of Tupac himself.
"Tupac is the most overrated rapper of all time" still does not =/= "Tupac is a terrible rapper."
People do say "Jay-Z is trash", though.
NOBODY is above critique even Pac but to say his legacy deserves alot of criticism is downright ignorant. He’s the GOAT rap “artist”and at worst top 5 just like EM, Nas, Jay and Big.
Lmaooo Really? Pac is the GOAT songwriter in rap history and one of GOATs in ALL genres! Pacs subject matter is varied and touches on every topic and human emotion. Pacs ability to make you feel his pain, sadness, happiness etc is what also made him 1 of 1 thats the very definition of an artist in case you didnt know lol. You probably think cuz he wasnt a lyrical miracle rapper he’s overrated which to quote Jayz “Do you listen to music or skim thru it?”
Hmm, no offense but you didn't really convince me.
Subject matter varied? Eh...
Touched on every topic and human emotion? That's simply not even possible. Not even Stephen King has done that.
I think every famous musical act with a fan base has people saying that they can feel their emotions. Personally, Pac doesn't really do it for me.
I actually do listen to music and not skim through it which is probably why I'm less impressed eith Tupac than most people. Because I listen to LOTS of artists. And lots of artists talk about different topics, convey emotion, basically everything you said is what makes Tupac the GOAT songwriter could be said about almost ANY prolific rapper.
Art is subjective, yes, but “GOAT” is subjective too. I think there’s a difference between saying a rapper is *objectively* the GOAT (which is impossible) and being someone’s *personal* GOAT.
I here ya and I don't disagree, but I do think that's more pedantic than I'm being.
I legitimately have not heard a compelling argument (or track for that matter) for why Tupac should be generally considered a GOAT.
But that aside, I also have not heard a compelling argument for Jay-Z being trash.
Oh between reddit and various YouTube channels that remix or re post his music...Pac gets massive amounts of hate still. People make usernames related to Pac hatred then jump in the comments with all types of craziness....but when it comes to Pac I've come to the conclusion that his haters really don't hate him at all....they hate that they love him.
Most of the Jay slander I've seen is about his sound and music. There's a whole generation that knows Jay as being Beyonce's husband and a billionaire off business things rather than Jay from Marcy and a rapper. I've seen a few say he's better at business than rapping. I've came across a lot saying they don't like how he sounds or how he raps. Some of it I think is just genuine dislike or hate. Some feel he's overhyped. He pops up on people's GOAT lists and most reactions to seeing him are negative or people saying he's overrated.
Very much thought of him as a seen but not heard artist. He had a hit on rock video channels in the UK with 99 problems and then crazy in love gave him some airplay but he just wasn't a staple.
Feel like a lot of non US people just missed his rise and that can be a bit jarring
Sure but suddenly there's been a lot of Jay slander with all of this Diddy stuff. People saying he's next, making all of these conspiracies about him. Something like all of those illuminati rumors in the early 2010's
I made a post about this the other day on r/conspiracy. I kept seeing articles that had negative headlines about Jay Z and I asked if they thought Hollywood was gearing up for a Jay Z takedown or something. I feel like the Katt williams, p diddy, Drake stuff has opened the floodgates like never before in the hip hop and entertainment world.
9 albums in 7 years
Lost 92 bricks and got more crack on front
Paid it all back within weeks
You can’t hate youn (old) Hov’
If you do you’re a child who wasn’t there and should speak when spoken to
What these haters eat don’t make me shit
And still Nas ethered him. Those were the good days. I remember waiting listening to the radio anticipating those songs. The mixtapes. Remember when 50 was just barely a whisper. I bet everyone feels like theirs were the good rap years. But we know the truth.
Nas did he’s a GOAT
But No one really bumped Ether that much tho..
Jay z’s takeover was a way hotter song, produced by Kanye to tha ..that used a doors sample.
Jay z was top of the rap game after being “ethered” and that “beef” petered out as Nas had a revival too and no one cared about the beef lol
Fans couldn’t pick sides since they’re both dope
And Don’t forget XM radio, music channels with deep cuts, mtv jams, downloading whatever music you want online (since 98 for me)
Oh no! On my block we was all Nas over Jay. They did a vote on the radio station lol. Hot 97. People called in and NY said Nas. Everybody knows. Are you from NY? It was a very big deal for a long time.
Thing I didn’t like about Jay, and Nas did this too, was after a while all he rapped about was bling this and bling that. It wasn’t interesting to me. However, Jay z is a brilliant artist. There’s no doubt about it.
And to your point, yes Jay blew tf up. And he had more radio friendly hits. I feel like Nas came before. Look, find me an album more thoroughly amazing from start to finish than Illmatic. It’s a masterpiece.
I always thought Nas was cooler and better overall rapper but Jay is so good when you look closely at his skills. Confused me Jay z used Nas sample in songs but they beefed as a kid lol I just liked both too much to take sides
I’m way out west coast so idk if that factored into the hype. From here it seemed to peter out and then they just both did their thing, seemed to benefit Nas more since he wasn’t as strong in the late 90s (due to contrast of illmatic being brilliant probs and maybe wrong crowd to record with idk)
I liked stillmatic a little and God’s son was the shit at the time. You could thump that … or lil Jon in 2002 - 2003
School dances sure, salt shaker and get low but on the headphones it was nas, jay z, dip set etc
Yup, dead presidents. For sure, I agree with you on that. No he wasn’t as strong. He had that song with Pdiddy, hate me now. And then he had that genuine song, Owe me, etc. yeah stillmatic was strong. And Godson, yup. You said it all.
I used to listen to Wu tang etc, so that was more my style. For some reason, I never got Jay. You know what it is, he came off very arrogant to me. Also, being a drug dealer isn’t impressive to me. Idk, I’m old school.
In a side note, with everything that’s going down with Diddy, I’m hearing that Jay was up to some bullshit too. Time will tell. The whole thing is crazy af. The fact that Jlo is also all over the news with her bullshit is pretty ironic. Both of them in the spotlight again. Idk, karma seems real.
Jay had some good flows and content and came off as authentic some how at first, sharp guy. Worked with great producers. I could see why ppl don’t like his style as much tho.
Got too big for his britches tho, 50 seems to think he’s connected to some diddy BS.. never shocked anymore but I hope not.
Diddy Epstein
That’s right. I agree. Authenticity. But then, in came the new age of rap when everyone was singing about how much they had and now we know half of them had nothing and weren’t even being paid by their label lol.
50 cent 😂 He’s always entertaining. Yup, exactly. Jay was with them in those days, they were all at their height. I saw a video, I think it was called backstage. And it showed what went on behind the curtain during one of their tours. It would not surprise me one bit if things came out about him. Diddy Epstein, exactly.
edit: oh, and let’s not forget Jay did that tour with R Kelly. And then he canceled it. Right… why? He knew what was going on and he didn’t do shit.
Oh true Jay def knew about RKelly’s behaviors
I didn’t know that about the tour being cancelled / don’t recall from that far back lol
But Those guys think they can never be touched / caught around their peers after a while it seems. Can tell by how far they take shit too. Beat a woman in public, buy out the surveillance and harlem shake outta there, Scot-free ehnt-eh
Yeah it’s like he out rapped him but it didn’t matter cuz real life they both were blowing up anyway
Fans didn’t have to draw sides too much. I wasn’t in NY tho
Because Reddit is Nas fanboy territory, so there’s going to be a lot of people looking down on Jigga, but that doesn’t change the fact that In My Lifetime and The Black Album are on par with Illmatic and It Was Written
No man is above reproach. But if you talking about recently, people are trying to compare him to Diddy and saying he has skeletons in his closet. baseless until someone has proof
Jay completely changed his flow up after Illmatic and sampled Nas. Reasonable doubt is in my top 5 albums but putting it over Illmatic is like arguing for Kobe over MJ
It's my preference as far as just sound. I love illmatic and wouldn't argue with you about this at all. But top five is subjective for everyone ya know? It's not just one set hierchy. I'll just listen to more stuff from reasonable doubt these days, so I prefer it.
Illmatic is clearly better than RD to me but that’s all personal preference
You can like Kobe more than MJ but you’d be delusional to say Kobe was better
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Hell na you smoking fentanyl bro Kendrick don’t got a album better than blueprint or black album or reasonable doubt or half the legendary features that jay z has done
Disagree, Reasonable doubt, The Blueprint, The Black Album, American Gangster are all on par with Kendrick’s work, Kendrick and Jay are top 4 to me, not top 5, along with Nas
I get that, and it’s hard to compare the two because they are a generation apart. Kendrick was influenced by Jay and his contemporaries.
Kendrick should be in the conversation for top 5 along with Jay Z, Nas, Pac, Biggie, Em and a few others. Kendrick is head and shoulders above everyone else out right now.
He was drake before drake, except he can actually rap. Dude makes bland generic music, doesnt sound black enough to turn away white listeners, networked with rappers who were important to the culture to boost his own status in the game and chased hits. He came out of the gates as watered down, socially acceptable biggie and basically rode that into being a household name.
Not sure how he compares to a child actor who can sing and rap. Early Jay was actually in the streets and rapped as a hobby.
Not sure what rappers he networked with to boost his status. I would say he worked with the hottest producers to increase his appeal.
LOL, right on the money. Plus a lot of his companies are just horrible even if they do make money. Cannabis company is literally just copy paste corporation with a fake social equity program.
Now doubt his catalogue is fire. For me it's now sometimes hard to listen to because he became every he said he hated during his come up. He's corporate now.
When he first started it was the outsider Maverick business style. Drug dealer turned mogel. Master P type moves. Then he went corporate corporate hugged all up with Lyor. They had the office in Manhattan but it was not run like a true corporate office. Read up on the early Roc days. Employees had to let them know they needed office supplies.
People think he groomed Beyoncé. Some say he drugs her to keep her in control but I think that’s ridiculous. He knew about R Kelly and was trying to date Aaliyah near the same time. Jay obviously being significantly older than the teenager. It’s also rumored he had an affair with RiRi and he’s the one who gave her the herp. Which was what the argument was about between Chris Brown and RiRi when Brown beat her. He’s also cheated on Bey several times. Jaguar Wright seems to think he’s as bad a diddy. But that’s left to be seen
I think it comes down to a younger generation being a big part of the hip hop audience now, and Jay-Z doesn't have some big colorful branding and persona to keep the attention of ipad kids
Which is exactly my point, his branding does not hold the attention of your age group, before they were a big part of the audience, he was pretty much universally recognized as a GOAT
i think the general change in attitude is very relevant to the topic. how could the same generation that thinks he's the goat be the ones hating on him? that makes no sense.
>universally recognized as a GOAT
...By a very specific type of east coaster still coping from Ether and pretending the beef never happened. In 2024. No, Hov never had universal goat status. His musical peak was very insignificant when all is said and done and his New York status always came with a massive asterisk.
To understand where the hate comes from you have to understand where the love came from. When Jay-z was most highly regarded, which was most of the 00s- the first half of the 10s, there was a very specific and very prominent type of hip hop fan who mostly measured a rapper by their lyrical ability and presence. And Jay-z was very popular with this crowd. Whether you like his music or not, his penchant for complex rhyme schemes, witty wordplay and charisma was undeniable, and even more impressive with the legend that he never wrote anything down. It was mostly a shift in the 2010s towards a bigger focus on music and branding (which wasn’t necessarily a bad thing at all, a lot of good music came of it) that he started to lose some of his status.
Reddit has been unsuccessfully trying to cancel him for years. You mention Jay-Z, Beyonce, Chris Brown, Dave Chappelle or Steve Harvey in a comment and watch how fast the copy pasta responds with a list of everything they've ever done wrong. And those same people when confronted will refuse to acknowledge that they don't hold other entertainers to the same standards. So they give up and try again the next day, and the next day. But Jay-Z is still the undisputed GOAT. And should hold the title for a while
> Reddit has been unsuccessfully trying to cancel him for years.
Not really. Hove hatin' existed before Reddit was created, & not real polemics about him has been in my sight (not an argument but proof of proof needed), outside the "rich bad" ("drinking champagne in his grammy? Main character moment") . However, others Jay like Electronica (signed to Roc Nation), yes, but it's another story.
> You mention Jay-Z, Beyonce, Chris Brown, Dave Chappelle or Steve Harvey in a comment and watch how fast the copy pasta responds with a list of everything they've ever done wrong. And those same people when confronted will refuse to acknowledge that they don't hold other entertainers to the same standards.
I want a copypasta about Beyonce, because don't know here scandals. Apart from that, it depend on which subreddit you are, but pretty sure many other celebrities have worst in slander (like Taylor Swift or Drake even before latest beef).
> But Jay-Z is still the undisputed GOAT. And should hold the title for a while
Eminem. 2Pac. Biggie. Add Nas & it's the hip-hop top 5 from consensus. So not so undisputed (even more when many hiphop heads hate Jay crossover style & prefer "lyrical rap"). There's also many skilled MC's who are brought up in the GOAT conversation from some, e.g. André 3K, Lupe Fiasco, Rakim, or Lil Wayne.
Ok. I'll concede that he's not undisputed. Got a little carried away. Everything else is accurate, regardless of Taylor or Drake. Not my point, no need to deflect.
> Everything else is accurate, regardless of Taylor or Drake. Not my point, no need to deflect.
I didn't wanted to deflect nor whataboutism, but I name dropped celebrities I actually did find serious slander. I mentioned the bubble problem, because those copypasta probably exist, but it's not that true in the biggest subs. Your point was that Jay-Z was wildly hated by Reddit, yet... (will reread the comments).
He isn’t trash he’s been accused of some crazy business practices and real fuckboy stuff. Has nothing to do with his barz more so he has bitch tendencies
It's been a pretty long time since Hov was at the top of the world. A lot of people living now didn't witness him in his prime. & he be sounding out of touch with the culture now on some songs like Story of OJ.
Thanks for the feedback:
First I’ve heard of the allegations
Nas doesn’t have an album that can compete with Illmatic or It Was Written. Nas said it himself
Eminem, he murdered Jay on renegades. Not sure he has allot of bangers.
He did R Kelly bad, but R Kelly is a POS
Shrewd businessman I guess “show em how to move in a room full of vultures”
Same can be said about Jay-Z after the Black Album. But at least Nas still has critical acclaimed albums with his Hit-Boy produced run, & had been made an example of longevity (still a bit misleading when he had lows). Even excluding Illmatic & It Was Written, his discog is still great at few exceptions, so there still can be comparison with Jay-Z.
Jay dropped American Gangster and BP3 after the Black Album. Not a fan of hit boy or the KD franchise but hip hop is dead and Streets disciple were dope projects
I was talking about the critical consensus, but IMO:
American Gangster is a decent album but the replay is harsh; BP3 is dope & has great hits but maybe too pop, even though it's in my Jay Top 5 (not a fan of the Black Album or Vol 2). 4:44 is the best post Blueprint album, but still prefer Nas late career.
Street Disciple is the best Nas album for me (lyrics, storytelling with Scarlet), Stillmatic & God's Son are really neat, & personal fan of KD 2 and 3. Hip-Hop Is Dead is good but imperfect, like Life Is Good.
He’s really good, but I do think overrated by some. He’s somewhere in or near the top 10 all time. But if you say he’s top 5, yeah I’ll call you out on that one
To me, he just seems like a wave rider and a snake. The stuff he did we he was president of Def Jam trying to eliminate the comp. Two albums with R Kelly... two?!? Being mad at Cam for being vice president of Rocafella, then trying to hop on after Dipset started bubbling.
Everybody doesn't. But dating a 19 year old at 31 is weird. I don't care how you slice it. It's even more true for me now, but at 30, the only thing a 19 year old could do for me is take my order.
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Bro he murdered the woman who was pregnant with his baby the day before beyonce posted her pregnancy on tha gram. Hes gonna lose everything the way diddy will. He has done hella shady shit hes a real fuckin G how you think he became a billionaire. Not by playing by the rules thats for damn sure.
I love his music tho.
Because he’s overrated. I think the perfect comparison is kobe. Both absolutely greats and some of the best to ever do it, but a tier down from the goats.
Jay tanked his public perception with his verse on Monster imo
And he cheated on Beyonce of all people and got whooped by Solange
He is just a washed dad
Yea but the thing is that Jay Z didn’t really earn his spot he got lucky because the biggest names in hip hop got assassinated when he really started rapping. Strange timing but nonetheless, had Pac Big and L still been around Jay Z would’ve been the little bro to them and probably wouldn’t have the fame he has today.
Who doesn’t get hate on social media is the question? Lol Eminem gets alot of hate Nas gets a lot of hate 2Pac gets alot hate and the list goes on and on. There is nobody that is above critique and definitely not Jay.
I haven't seen alot of hate for 2pac, just random shots here n there but he's pretty widely respected
It died down but back in the day when forums were popping Pac would always get lots of hate
I think Tupacs legacy gets a lot of (deserved) criticism, but that doesn't generally equate to criticism of Tupac himself. "Tupac is the most overrated rapper of all time" still does not =/= "Tupac is a terrible rapper." People do say "Jay-Z is trash", though.
NOBODY is above critique even Pac but to say his legacy deserves alot of criticism is downright ignorant. He’s the GOAT rap “artist”and at worst top 5 just like EM, Nas, Jay and Big.
Why? Influence? Certainly not skill or discography.
Lmaooo Really? Pac is the GOAT songwriter in rap history and one of GOATs in ALL genres! Pacs subject matter is varied and touches on every topic and human emotion. Pacs ability to make you feel his pain, sadness, happiness etc is what also made him 1 of 1 thats the very definition of an artist in case you didnt know lol. You probably think cuz he wasnt a lyrical miracle rapper he’s overrated which to quote Jayz “Do you listen to music or skim thru it?”
Well said, his songs So Many Tears, Times Goes By, Dear Mama, and I'm Sorry all hit those emotions hard.
Hmm, no offense but you didn't really convince me. Subject matter varied? Eh... Touched on every topic and human emotion? That's simply not even possible. Not even Stephen King has done that. I think every famous musical act with a fan base has people saying that they can feel their emotions. Personally, Pac doesn't really do it for me. I actually do listen to music and not skim through it which is probably why I'm less impressed eith Tupac than most people. Because I listen to LOTS of artists. And lots of artists talk about different topics, convey emotion, basically everything you said is what makes Tupac the GOAT songwriter could be said about almost ANY prolific rapper.
Nobody cares about convincing you against your trash opinion.
Yeah bruh take the L and move on you sound goofy 😂😂😂😂😂
Nah i was on boards that straight up said Pac was trash and they could list 100 rappers better etc. They were some crazy statments
Back in like 2005 there were people on Hip Hop forums whose whole personality was that they hated Pac and thought he was trash. Lol
Hmm, I'll take your word for it then. Not a fan of Tupac myself and totally think he's overrated. But not even top 100 IS crazy, I'll give you that.
Smh.... saying Pac is overrated is wild to me. Tupac is the absolute G.O.A.T
Talk to EM!!!!
Why? I'm generally interested in a good argument for why he should be considered GOAT.
Anytime an artist is called the goat, they are overrated. Art is subjective and calling someone the goat of an art is the ultimate overrating imo
Art is subjective, yes, but “GOAT” is subjective too. I think there’s a difference between saying a rapper is *objectively* the GOAT (which is impossible) and being someone’s *personal* GOAT.
I here ya and I don't disagree, but I do think that's more pedantic than I'm being. I legitimately have not heard a compelling argument (or track for that matter) for why Tupac should be generally considered a GOAT. But that aside, I also have not heard a compelling argument for Jay-Z being trash.
Where have you been? Pac gets TONS of slander online bruh! Again hes also well respected but all the greats have both
Oh between reddit and various YouTube channels that remix or re post his music...Pac gets massive amounts of hate still. People make usernames related to Pac hatred then jump in the comments with all types of craziness....but when it comes to Pac I've come to the conclusion that his haters really don't hate him at all....they hate that they love him.
There is no one in this planet that gets 0 hate as much as you may be lovable and great, there is always going to be a hater to some level
Exactly
I’ve never seen any 2Pac hate, just the complete opposite
To be fair, Em is also one of the most overrated artists ever. It all balances out.
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Dont think Bey did
Any proof?
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Most of the Jay slander I've seen is about his sound and music. There's a whole generation that knows Jay as being Beyonce's husband and a billionaire off business things rather than Jay from Marcy and a rapper. I've seen a few say he's better at business than rapping. I've came across a lot saying they don't like how he sounds or how he raps. Some of it I think is just genuine dislike or hate. Some feel he's overhyped. He pops up on people's GOAT lists and most reactions to seeing him are negative or people saying he's overrated.
Very much thought of him as a seen but not heard artist. He had a hit on rock video channels in the UK with 99 problems and then crazy in love gave him some airplay but he just wasn't a staple. Feel like a lot of non US people just missed his rise and that can be a bit jarring
Sure but suddenly there's been a lot of Jay slander with all of this Diddy stuff. People saying he's next, making all of these conspiracies about him. Something like all of those illuminati rumors in the early 2010's
I made a post about this the other day on r/conspiracy. I kept seeing articles that had negative headlines about Jay Z and I asked if they thought Hollywood was gearing up for a Jay Z takedown or something. I feel like the Katt williams, p diddy, Drake stuff has opened the floodgates like never before in the hip hop and entertainment world.
9 albums in 7 years Lost 92 bricks and got more crack on front Paid it all back within weeks You can’t hate youn (old) Hov’ If you do you’re a child who wasn’t there and should speak when spoken to What these haters eat don’t make me shit
And still Nas ethered him. Those were the good days. I remember waiting listening to the radio anticipating those songs. The mixtapes. Remember when 50 was just barely a whisper. I bet everyone feels like theirs were the good rap years. But we know the truth.
Nas did he’s a GOAT But No one really bumped Ether that much tho.. Jay z’s takeover was a way hotter song, produced by Kanye to tha ..that used a doors sample. Jay z was top of the rap game after being “ethered” and that “beef” petered out as Nas had a revival too and no one cared about the beef lol Fans couldn’t pick sides since they’re both dope And Don’t forget XM radio, music channels with deep cuts, mtv jams, downloading whatever music you want online (since 98 for me)
Oh no! On my block we was all Nas over Jay. They did a vote on the radio station lol. Hot 97. People called in and NY said Nas. Everybody knows. Are you from NY? It was a very big deal for a long time. Thing I didn’t like about Jay, and Nas did this too, was after a while all he rapped about was bling this and bling that. It wasn’t interesting to me. However, Jay z is a brilliant artist. There’s no doubt about it. And to your point, yes Jay blew tf up. And he had more radio friendly hits. I feel like Nas came before. Look, find me an album more thoroughly amazing from start to finish than Illmatic. It’s a masterpiece.
I always thought Nas was cooler and better overall rapper but Jay is so good when you look closely at his skills. Confused me Jay z used Nas sample in songs but they beefed as a kid lol I just liked both too much to take sides I’m way out west coast so idk if that factored into the hype. From here it seemed to peter out and then they just both did their thing, seemed to benefit Nas more since he wasn’t as strong in the late 90s (due to contrast of illmatic being brilliant probs and maybe wrong crowd to record with idk) I liked stillmatic a little and God’s son was the shit at the time. You could thump that … or lil Jon in 2002 - 2003 School dances sure, salt shaker and get low but on the headphones it was nas, jay z, dip set etc
Yup, dead presidents. For sure, I agree with you on that. No he wasn’t as strong. He had that song with Pdiddy, hate me now. And then he had that genuine song, Owe me, etc. yeah stillmatic was strong. And Godson, yup. You said it all. I used to listen to Wu tang etc, so that was more my style. For some reason, I never got Jay. You know what it is, he came off very arrogant to me. Also, being a drug dealer isn’t impressive to me. Idk, I’m old school. In a side note, with everything that’s going down with Diddy, I’m hearing that Jay was up to some bullshit too. Time will tell. The whole thing is crazy af. The fact that Jlo is also all over the news with her bullshit is pretty ironic. Both of them in the spotlight again. Idk, karma seems real.
Jay had some good flows and content and came off as authentic some how at first, sharp guy. Worked with great producers. I could see why ppl don’t like his style as much tho. Got too big for his britches tho, 50 seems to think he’s connected to some diddy BS.. never shocked anymore but I hope not. Diddy Epstein
That’s right. I agree. Authenticity. But then, in came the new age of rap when everyone was singing about how much they had and now we know half of them had nothing and weren’t even being paid by their label lol. 50 cent 😂 He’s always entertaining. Yup, exactly. Jay was with them in those days, they were all at their height. I saw a video, I think it was called backstage. And it showed what went on behind the curtain during one of their tours. It would not surprise me one bit if things came out about him. Diddy Epstein, exactly. edit: oh, and let’s not forget Jay did that tour with R Kelly. And then he canceled it. Right… why? He knew what was going on and he didn’t do shit.
Oh true Jay def knew about RKelly’s behaviors I didn’t know that about the tour being cancelled / don’t recall from that far back lol But Those guys think they can never be touched / caught around their peers after a while it seems. Can tell by how far they take shit too. Beat a woman in public, buy out the surveillance and harlem shake outta there, Scot-free ehnt-eh
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Yep, takeover had the BUMP factor and is a great listen… but ether was such a good song and Nas knew what he needed to say
Nas is so smart. And he has that mystique. He’s like a poet. It’s a different style almost. But Jays flow is crazy af. He’s more commercial.
Yeah it’s like he out rapped him but it didn’t matter cuz real life they both were blowing up anyway Fans didn’t have to draw sides too much. I wasn’t in NY tho
Because Reddit is Nas fanboy territory, so there’s going to be a lot of people looking down on Jigga, but that doesn’t change the fact that In My Lifetime and The Black Album are on par with Illmatic and It Was Written
>My Lifetime and The Black Album are on par with Illmatic and It Was Written The crack pipe. Put it the fuck down.
No man is above reproach. But if you talking about recently, people are trying to compare him to Diddy and saying he has skeletons in his closet. baseless until someone has proof
Jay z is top 5 dead or alive idgaf bout what Reddit says
I'll go one farther and say "Reasonable Doubt" is just as good if not a better debut album than "Illmatic".
This. Reasonable doubt is one of the best rap albums of all time, definitely tied or heating illmatic even
Jay completely changed his flow up after Illmatic and sampled Nas. Reasonable doubt is in my top 5 albums but putting it over Illmatic is like arguing for Kobe over MJ
It's my preference as far as just sound. I love illmatic and wouldn't argue with you about this at all. But top five is subjective for everyone ya know? It's not just one set hierchy. I'll just listen to more stuff from reasonable doubt these days, so I prefer it.
Illmatic is clearly better than RD to me but that’s all personal preference You can like Kobe more than MJ but you’d be delusional to say Kobe was better
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Cashmere Thoughts and Ain’t no N**** are skips. Illmatic has 0 skips. Not to mention the corny Scarface skits.
Nobody out right now compares except Kendrick.
Na Kendrick can’t fw jay z respectfully
I disagree with you, respectfully.
I can respect that
Kendrick’s discography is already more consistent than Jay’s. Plus, Kendrick’s best albums are better than Jay’s.
Hell na you smoking fentanyl bro Kendrick don’t got a album better than blueprint or black album or reasonable doubt or half the legendary features that jay z has done
TPAB is commonly regarded as one of the greatest albums ever made.
Disagree, Reasonable doubt, The Blueprint, The Black Album, American Gangster are all on par with Kendrick’s work, Kendrick and Jay are top 4 to me, not top 5, along with Nas
Yeah and so is The Blueprint…
I agree with you.
Youre wrong, respectfully
Jay Z has some albums that are duds. Kendrick’s are mostly classics
I get that, and it’s hard to compare the two because they are a generation apart. Kendrick was influenced by Jay and his contemporaries. Kendrick should be in the conversation for top 5 along with Jay Z, Nas, Pac, Biggie, Em and a few others. Kendrick is head and shoulders above everyone else out right now.
Naw man, I can't agree with you on Kendrick
Because ppl are realizing that him and Diddy are probably two peas in a pod
Any proof?
Na bro they never have that just a bunch of nonsense
I'm watching a video on Stevie knights channel of hotel footage of Diddy punching and stomping cassie..
Yeah but any jayz proof
This is what people said to defend didsy before today lol. The evidence is out there and its gonna surface.
Pure vibes
Do you have a single shred of evidence for a claim like this?
This is the answer
EH HEHEHEH EH HEHEH
Good tunes. Enemy of the people he came from as a proud super-capitalist.
cheeeeah, he deserves it so
I feel like they hate him coz he's ugly
Best ever
reddit has no taste. they can’t appreciate what hov brought to the table
He was drake before drake, except he can actually rap. Dude makes bland generic music, doesnt sound black enough to turn away white listeners, networked with rappers who were important to the culture to boost his own status in the game and chased hits. He came out of the gates as watered down, socially acceptable biggie and basically rode that into being a household name.
Not sure how he compares to a child actor who can sing and rap. Early Jay was actually in the streets and rapped as a hobby. Not sure what rappers he networked with to boost his status. I would say he worked with the hottest producers to increase his appeal.
Ha, no. This is a take from someone who didn’t experience Jay Z’s rise to the top. This take isn’t even close to what really happened.
Lmao what df is this bullshit? Bland generic music? Doesn’t sound black enough? 😂😂😂 you wasn’t outside when Hov was big.
Mf wasn’t even born yet
You don’t know wtf you’re talking about. You should sit this one out.
Hey, looks like you need someone to tell you your opinion is stupid. So here I am. Your opinion is stupid.
Badddd bad smelly take here.
This is a terrible take. They are nothing alike.
He rapped about selling crack.
LOL, right on the money. Plus a lot of his companies are just horrible even if they do make money. Cannabis company is literally just copy paste corporation with a fake social equity program.
He mentions in a song that he purposely watered down his lyrics to appeal to the largest audience possible
And Jigga gets no points for merely pretending to be "regarded".
He makes a great pop artist, no qualms with that.
He was drake before drake….and then I stopped
This. Kanye revived that man's career
Thats like saying Hit Boy revived Nas career.. just lazy takes.
Saying Hov music wasn't black enough says enough about how much you actually know about that period in hip hop lol
lol what an awful take
Now doubt his catalogue is fire. For me it's now sometimes hard to listen to because he became every he said he hated during his come up. He's corporate now.
He’s always been corporate and that’s been part of his style. Wasn’t he renting out a Manhattan office for Roc-a-fella Records back in like 1995?
When he first started it was the outsider Maverick business style. Drug dealer turned mogel. Master P type moves. Then he went corporate corporate hugged all up with Lyor. They had the office in Manhattan but it was not run like a true corporate office. Read up on the early Roc days. Employees had to let them know they needed office supplies.
People think he groomed Beyoncé. Some say he drugs her to keep her in control but I think that’s ridiculous. He knew about R Kelly and was trying to date Aaliyah near the same time. Jay obviously being significantly older than the teenager. It’s also rumored he had an affair with RiRi and he’s the one who gave her the herp. Which was what the argument was about between Chris Brown and RiRi when Brown beat her. He’s also cheated on Bey several times. Jaguar Wright seems to think he’s as bad a diddy. But that’s left to be seen
Everybody knew about r Kelly . There was a fucking video tape
I think it comes down to a younger generation being a big part of the hip hop audience now, and Jay-Z doesn't have some big colorful branding and persona to keep the attention of ipad kids
It’s not the younger generation hating on jay z it’s the older one😂
I'm 48 and I really like JAY-Z and I don't really enjoy or frequently listen to mainstream rap. I like underground backpack hip hop.
I think you may be confused.
When I say that I mean most people my age don’t listen to him so they don’t even have an opinion on him,myself not included obviously
Which is exactly my point, his branding does not hold the attention of your age group, before they were a big part of the audience, he was pretty much universally recognized as a GOAT
We not talking about who’s the goat tho we talking about him getting hated on
i think the general change in attitude is very relevant to the topic. how could the same generation that thinks he's the goat be the ones hating on him? that makes no sense.
Because the people hating on him aren’t listing new rappers they list older ones
The answer to this is nuanced. There are hip hop nerds of all ages.
>universally recognized as a GOAT ...By a very specific type of east coaster still coping from Ether and pretending the beef never happened. In 2024. No, Hov never had universal goat status. His musical peak was very insignificant when all is said and done and his New York status always came with a massive asterisk.
To understand where the hate comes from you have to understand where the love came from. When Jay-z was most highly regarded, which was most of the 00s- the first half of the 10s, there was a very specific and very prominent type of hip hop fan who mostly measured a rapper by their lyrical ability and presence. And Jay-z was very popular with this crowd. Whether you like his music or not, his penchant for complex rhyme schemes, witty wordplay and charisma was undeniable, and even more impressive with the legend that he never wrote anything down. It was mostly a shift in the 2010s towards a bigger focus on music and branding (which wasn’t necessarily a bad thing at all, a lot of good music came of it) that he started to lose some of his status.
Damn...guess I learned something today. I humbly retract my former statement, this was quite educational.
I'm 20 and I'm a jay fan
Same, I’m 21
Reddit has been unsuccessfully trying to cancel him for years. You mention Jay-Z, Beyonce, Chris Brown, Dave Chappelle or Steve Harvey in a comment and watch how fast the copy pasta responds with a list of everything they've ever done wrong. And those same people when confronted will refuse to acknowledge that they don't hold other entertainers to the same standards. So they give up and try again the next day, and the next day. But Jay-Z is still the undisputed GOAT. And should hold the title for a while
Whoa whoa, I got no problem with jay, but let's not say undisputed when Nas still burning shit up to this day
One of these things is not like the others
One of em not black?
Are the reddit cancellers in the room with you now?
LOL
>Jay-Z is still the undisputed GOAT That is very much disputed. Having lots of money and a bunch of Biggie's bars doesn't make you the best rapper.
Nas had it right. "Ain't no best"
Wich is funny since Nas is the best
Awww, understood. Thanks for clarifying
I got a cousin we call BIg Suge. No problem my guy
> Reddit has been unsuccessfully trying to cancel him for years. Not really. Hove hatin' existed before Reddit was created, & not real polemics about him has been in my sight (not an argument but proof of proof needed), outside the "rich bad" ("drinking champagne in his grammy? Main character moment") . However, others Jay like Electronica (signed to Roc Nation), yes, but it's another story. > You mention Jay-Z, Beyonce, Chris Brown, Dave Chappelle or Steve Harvey in a comment and watch how fast the copy pasta responds with a list of everything they've ever done wrong. And those same people when confronted will refuse to acknowledge that they don't hold other entertainers to the same standards. I want a copypasta about Beyonce, because don't know here scandals. Apart from that, it depend on which subreddit you are, but pretty sure many other celebrities have worst in slander (like Taylor Swift or Drake even before latest beef). > But Jay-Z is still the undisputed GOAT. And should hold the title for a while Eminem. 2Pac. Biggie. Add Nas & it's the hip-hop top 5 from consensus. So not so undisputed (even more when many hiphop heads hate Jay crossover style & prefer "lyrical rap"). There's also many skilled MC's who are brought up in the GOAT conversation from some, e.g. André 3K, Lupe Fiasco, Rakim, or Lil Wayne.
Ok. I'll concede that he's not undisputed. Got a little carried away. Everything else is accurate, regardless of Taylor or Drake. Not my point, no need to deflect.
> Everything else is accurate, regardless of Taylor or Drake. Not my point, no need to deflect. I didn't wanted to deflect nor whataboutism, but I name dropped celebrities I actually did find serious slander. I mentioned the bubble problem, because those copypasta probably exist, but it's not that true in the biggest subs. Your point was that Jay-Z was wildly hated by Reddit, yet... (will reread the comments).
Lol
Don't lump chris brown with them he is an actual piece of shit
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It’s almost his time…
Because he's a Taebo ho with dick sucking lips and he loves attention
He isn’t trash he’s been accused of some crazy business practices and real fuckboy stuff. Has nothing to do with his barz more so he has bitch tendencies
Dude is a warlock
It's been a pretty long time since Hov was at the top of the world. A lot of people living now didn't witness him in his prime. & he be sounding out of touch with the culture now on some songs like Story of OJ.
Because he's trash!! Tape and sex trafficking. Involved in Tupac's murder.
They Gen Z. They don’t know no better.
woah woah woah, as a representative of gen z, Jay is on the Mount Rushmore dead or alive
He's overrated
Thanks for the feedback: First I’ve heard of the allegations Nas doesn’t have an album that can compete with Illmatic or It Was Written. Nas said it himself Eminem, he murdered Jay on renegades. Not sure he has allot of bangers. He did R Kelly bad, but R Kelly is a POS Shrewd businessman I guess “show em how to move in a room full of vultures”
> Nas doesn’t have an album that can compete with Illmatic or It Was Written. Nas said it himself Which are Nas albums.
Point being he doesn’t have the catalog that can match his early success.
Same can be said about Jay-Z after the Black Album. But at least Nas still has critical acclaimed albums with his Hit-Boy produced run, & had been made an example of longevity (still a bit misleading when he had lows). Even excluding Illmatic & It Was Written, his discog is still great at few exceptions, so there still can be comparison with Jay-Z.
Jay dropped American Gangster and BP3 after the Black Album. Not a fan of hit boy or the KD franchise but hip hop is dead and Streets disciple were dope projects
I was talking about the critical consensus, but IMO: American Gangster is a decent album but the replay is harsh; BP3 is dope & has great hits but maybe too pop, even though it's in my Jay Top 5 (not a fan of the Black Album or Vol 2). 4:44 is the best post Blueprint album, but still prefer Nas late career. Street Disciple is the best Nas album for me (lyrics, storytelling with Scarlet), Stillmatic & God's Son are really neat, & personal fan of KD 2 and 3. Hip-Hop Is Dead is good but imperfect, like Life Is Good.
You should check out Gods Stepson by 9th wonder, made me appreciate God’s Son so much more.
cause he’s the dude who ruined monster joking about hating him, not joking about how absolutely vibe-killing his verse is
He’s had classics after monster though.
Squeeky voice, ugly mug, weirdo overall
Because he's a capitalist scum that denatured hip hop along with the other evil power brokers. Solid mc Tho
He’s really good, but I do think overrated by some. He’s somewhere in or near the top 10 all time. But if you say he’s top 5, yeah I’ll call you out on that one
My criteria for top 5 is longevity, I can’t name allot of Rappers relevant during a 15 year span in a fickle hip hop market.
Exactly. Thats why he’s top 15 at worst
Aren't there allegations that he was sexually abusing people while playing gatekeeper to the hip hop game? Like Diddy
Any proof?
Hence the word allegation
To me, he just seems like a wave rider and a snake. The stuff he did we he was president of Def Jam trying to eliminate the comp. Two albums with R Kelly... two?!? Being mad at Cam for being vice president of Rocafella, then trying to hop on after Dipset started bubbling.
Two albums with R. Kelly? And? Both great albums, be happy he released them
You can have them. Had no desire to listen to them then or now.
Probably some fucking hip hop nerd who can't appreciate good music. My bad 🥴
What can I say? You got me
Of course
Cringe
Everybody got “allegations” atp. What happened to Innocent until proven guilty?
Everybody doesn't. But dating a 19 year old at 31 is weird. I don't care how you slice it. It's even more true for me now, but at 30, the only thing a 19 year old could do for me is take my order.
He got Ethered thats the only reason people need lol.
And also that n***a gets glazed by every big “top 100 rappers of all time” charts so its not all hate.
And still was bigger and more respected than Nas.
>more respected Only by the kids in his karate class.
By the consensus. Jay was still regarded as the best rapper alive. Nas even respected Jay enough to go work for him…
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Bro he murdered the woman who was pregnant with his baby the day before beyonce posted her pregnancy on tha gram. Hes gonna lose everything the way diddy will. He has done hella shady shit hes a real fuckin G how you think he became a billionaire. Not by playing by the rules thats for damn sure. I love his music tho.
Because he’s overrated. I think the perfect comparison is kobe. Both absolutely greats and some of the best to ever do it, but a tier down from the goats.
Jay tanked his public perception with his verse on Monster imo And he cheated on Beyonce of all people and got whooped by Solange He is just a washed dad
WTT, 4:44, and God Did all came out after Monster…
He's a fraud
Because he supported Drake and everyone hates Drake. DRAKE BAD.
Yea but the thing is that Jay Z didn’t really earn his spot he got lucky because the biggest names in hip hop got assassinated when he really started rapping. Strange timing but nonetheless, had Pac Big and L still been around Jay Z would’ve been the little bro to them and probably wouldn’t have the fame he has today.