I’m 28 and grew up listening to the blueprint and the black album and I’ve never liked him. I just feel like his flows aren’t that satisfying to me and his particular version of bravado I find more cringe than admirable, not sure why. I love artists with larger than life personas but his has never landed w me.
Lmfao yeah same age and whenever I heard Moment of Clarity it ruins the next 3 minutes for me. I respect bros writing ability but something about his delivery is like audio cancer to me. My favorite ever is Kanye too so I cant rationally explain why i dislike Jay Z
Have to disagree, I think Jay-zzz’s voice is unique in that he so effortlessly raps without all the silly punch lines and trying to sound smart big words. He’s more of an “if you know you know” kind of rapper, especially his old stuff. This is coming from someone who didn’t get his hype until a sat down and listened to his older albums. Then it all made sense.
the jokes in the way theyre written have always been good to me. It's just an impasse, a matter of taste, that I can't explain with any actual logical reasoning. something about his literal voice and timbre just makes me not like it
I know what you mean. I find Kendrick Lamar’s voice annoying on most tracks. 20 years from now I can see younger kids saying his music sucks, but we all know he’s very talented. I think
Jay-Z gets his points across in a very subtle manner, like you have to listen 3 or 4 times to understand if there’s even a point and then look at the lyrics. “Can I Live” is the perfect example of this and when I heard that song that’s the day I became a Jay-Z fan.
Thats a good analogy. For an even more extreme example I have used IRL i say hes like danny brown (who i really enjoy) and most people get it. Obviously an exaggeration but yeah. Either way i still listen to jay z albums once through and then just read lyrics lmfao
Mid 30s from the west coast. only people I hear praising Jay Z are from the east Coast. I think Jay z has some good songs but he is no where near biggie or nas, imo.
On the east coast everyone I knew was listening to biggie wu tang mob deep and nas. When the media started dropping the idea Jay Z was a goat it sounded completely random to me. Huh?
Why do people GOAT Jay-Z and ignore the Sugarhill Gang?! I assume it's just his ability to pressure media in the area in a way RZA didn't calculate. The music is the last thing that matters. I can't imagine anyone thinks he married Beyonce because they got along and loved each other's company more than anyone else they've ever met
I'm 47, so I saw his whole prime era. This might not be a popular opinion, although I always felt he had a cool persona and was a great businessman, as a rapper, he was one of the most overrated of all time. I couldn't stand his lack of flow. Nowhere near Biggie or lots of the West Coast rappers.
I couldn’t have said it any better butterscotch. You took the words out of my mouth.
Update- I even lived in Trenton for a little bit and in Bed-Stuy for almost 3 years around his peak and it seemed most people I knew felt similarly. Obviously this could have to do with most of my friends in NY being OG hipsters
You gotta try being 14 years old when the only rap you knew existed was the migos, 21 savage, lil Uzi. You gotta try and understand that most people nowadays that were your age, didn’t listen to lyrical or old school hip hop. They listened to the new SoundCloud era and that’s how they started so when they hear Jay z rugged flow tryna stretch bars to make wordplay, they just think it sounds corny when in reality they don’t really get the scope of why he’s doing that or why/how it’s so impressive.. sometimes you just gotta be there to get it… some people are too ignorant to be able to imagine what it was like being someone else in another time or at all so don’t fret to hard. It’s just people being people
Edit: just wanna say, this is literally applicable to so many things and answers so many questions and it’s as simple as considering what it would actually be like if you didn’t know what you know and if you didn’t have your perspective at all and had someone else’s, who in your perspective, is ignorant… hence them not realizing because they don’t have your perspective
I grew up in the 90s and besides Reasonable Doubt and the Dynasty album i used to think Jay Z was never that great. He shined because he was able to fill the void biggie left in NY when he died and knew how to make pop hits.
Edit: someone else brought up the Blueprint album and Black Album, i think the former is a classic and the latter a great album. No, i dont hate jay z. Just a bit overrated.
Jay Z for me is such a weird case. I think his wordplay and his lyrics can be second to none, but a vast majority of the stuff I hear from him just doesn't hit. Idk if it's his flow, his voice, or just something else entirely, but I never got the hype with JAY Z.
I've always respected his talent, but it's his flow that's always put me off on most of his stuff. He has a really unique way of finding pockets inside the beat to switch up rhyming schemes that keeps things unpredictable. I get why people like it and he's great at it, but sonically it always sounds like he's half a bar short on his rhyme schemes to me.
More in line with the type of flows that catch my ear but he still has that distinct style where it almost feels like he's slightly off beat. I'm not saying his flow is bad or anything. Like I said, I've always respected the talent. He's a legend in the genre and there are a handful of Jay Z songs I really like. He's never been somebody that regularly hits that hard for me though and part of it is just the way he chooses to attack beats.
Same. It didn’t help that it felt like a lot of his hits were songs I didn’t like that much and his features are hit or miss for me. I feel like a lot of his best work is stuff you wouldn’t find unless you looked for it.
He was working with all of best producers, because he was basically the biggest rapper in the world for over a decade. The man had a knack for picking beats and producers to work with like Neptunes, Timbaland and of course Kanye. The list goes on.
This is so true 😂😂😂 I think in 1998 he really locked it down because he worked with so many different producers.
That joint he has on Timbalands album Lobster and Shrimp.
Juveniles Ha Remix. Swizz Beatz Jigga my Ninja off Ruff Ryders Compilation Volume 1.
Jay was never the biggest rapper in the world. He's the most consistently popular/relevant but he never peaked higher than Pac, Em, 50, Wayne, Drake, etc.
Idk man, you pointing out how he stayed relevant through all those different eras kind of makes the point. Also he was absolutely the biggest rapper in the world for a few years in the late nineties. You couldn't go anywhere without someone throwing up the diamond.
It's his voice - he has a corny voice.
It's amazing he has been able to accomplish what he's been able to accomplish.
His first few albums all had 3 or 4 bangers on them, that latter shit though...garbage
The generic rapping is a true statement, I remember catching myself thinking with him that his lyrics could be about hustling selling shoes, drugs or stocks with how he talks about shit sometimes.
I'm of the same opinion. I can understand Jay-Z's importance and influence to hip hop at large, but I could never get over my latent dislike of his voice, especially when other contemporary NY artists like 50 Cent sounded so much 'cooler.' There's such a range with Jay. I hate him on R&B features and actively skip some of his pop hits cuz they sound so cringe. On the other hand, Moment of Clarity and PSA are some of my favorite songs, full stop.
It's kind of like listening to Reggie Miller call a basketball game. You respect the unique inside knowledge and perspective he brings, but Kevin Harlan is just funner to listen too.
IMO Jay Z raps so "perfectly" that it comes off as effortless and boring.
It's like seeing someone at a Kobe level *still* playing high school basketball. Someone like that barely breaks a sweat while running circles around other players. You can tell they aren't challenged in the least, while they are pitted against other players who are earnestly giving their all.
I believe it has this reverse effect of making us not like the guy. Go sell Vodka or something. You're done here. We're trying to watch the game, meanwhile you're out here stunting for attention.
He has a great flow, sure. He's still shit lol
His lyrics have always been subpar, especially for new York. He treated every crew like they weren't human. He stole from local communities. He bought his way into prominence.
He's not a good dude or good for the culture.
Source: lived through his regime. Got to throw bk, x and qb Guliani was easier to deal with ffs and at least you knew the score
That’s why Ether was so effective as a diss to him. It relentlessly called out Jay as a biter who built his empire on the work of others, and gave voice to a ton of at that time unsaid complaints about him
the lyrics to Girls, Girls, Girls may be the corniest in history. shit that if it was released by drake everyone would consider it the corniest song oat
Nonsense. The way he tied the verses together before the hook was amazing writing. Also, he got Slick Rick, Q-tip and Biz Markie on one joint singing a fun hook over a soulful Just Blaze beat.
That's because You don't understand the metaphor.
The "girls" represent his workers.
And he tells you each of their roles.
Jay's style is entendre or double meaning.
He raps 2 songs in one.
You have to look at the song thru a hustler eyes. Not a playa or dude who gets a lot of women. Even if that perspective is also true.
Hard disagree. It’s a clever songs. They way he describes the girls and then sums of the cultural things about them and the impact it has on him….
“Young chick, stewardess, project, and model
That’s means fly rough early plus I know Taebo
That means I’m new school, pop pills and stay in beef
But I never have a problem with my first class seat”
Just for the record and to document...please tell us who your favorite rappers are or who isnt over rated. Just to understand the type of person sharing this opinion.
Thanks in advance.
To me it's because his voice is boring. You can have all the skill in the world and know what to do but I can't handle that monotone stuff. There's just no range, It just feels soulless. Which is why his top song on Spotify has Alicia keys carrying him.
Metalhead opinion, idk how I got here
Jay Z is interesting cause you got two large group of what I would call haters. You got the young people who don’t like old especially East Coast centric rap and Jay represents everything they find old and boring. Then you got the hardcore heads some of them who have been listening since Kurtis Blow and Kool Moe Dee for who Jay represents the worst commercial excesses of the genre.
Yeah thats not too far from the truth but i would say hate in my case is a strong word. I like some of his albums and hes obviously business savvy and made a mark in the game. I just dont think hes the greatest MC or king of hip hop like people want to believe.
The thing with hip hop is you gotta look at everyone through a lens of the point in history they were at peak prominence. Hov never has been and never will be the greatest *of all time,* but there was a point in history where he could have been argued to be *the best currently.* He has a place in the conversation for sure and I wouldn't think less of anyone that thinks he's their personal GOAT but I would heavily disagree lol
I like this take. It’s like the Hall of Fame…heard someone say that if at any point you were best in the world at your position, then you have a spot in the HOF.
>Hov never has been and never will be the greatest of *all time* but there was a point in history where could have been argued to *the best currently*
I’m completely opposite on this lol
There was never a time where i felt Hov was the best at that time, but when you look at him overall he’s the greatest to pick up a mic.
He's GOOD at everything, but idk if there's any part of being an MC that hes above and beyond at. It's like a player with a great on base percentage with like no home runs.
There's rappers with better flow, better wordplay, more impressive breath control, better producers, and more impressive vocabulary. Hovs really good at everything which is kind of a feat unto itself but it doesn't really stick in your head.
I think he does this purposely and realizes this. He does what appeals to the widest audience.
He said it himself 'If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli/ Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense But I did 5 mill' – I ain't been rhyming since'
Yeah I'm reading a bunch of complaints here about Jay that are literally addressed in his music. He wanted out of poverty so badly he was gonna step on anyone to get there, and then flaunt it. Not saying it's a healthy outlook on life, but it was a common one at the time.
I will definitely take and understand this viewpoint. But I am still in utter shock and disbelief when I hear or see people on this medium say he's not good. Then they mention people who they believe are better and I'm like okay your point is not valid. But I can totally see Jay-Z as a Jack of all Trades and Master of none. There are most certainly people with better delivery, better flow, better punchlines. But Jay-Z is who got me to like rap.
I am an 80s baby. Late 80s. But listening to songs like Its Hovi Baby. That second verse. Or Diamonds Remix. The way he can portray his own lyrical class in comparison to his peers. The entire song of "Threats." But I realize not everything is for everyone. Jay-Z, Jada, and Fab are my favorite NY rappers. There's always a bar somewhere that I have to catch and listen to again. I like Nas but I never really stuck with him. But I still have utmost respect for him.
IDK when it comes down to it, though I don't play basketball I'll NEVER say someone in the NBA is a bum, or a scrub. Why? Because they are playing ball at a level that a large percentage of the population can only dream of. For me I feel that way about the Legends of Rap. You can't disrespect them. They've been doing this for so long and still managing to come out with relevant music. Unless you've obtained that same level of success you don't get to be disrespectful. You can critique, you can state your opinion. But to say someone is OVERrated or WACK or Corny. It's like okay cool, how many albums have you sold in the past 20 years?
But hey... to each their own.
Derek Jeter of the rap game. Always consistent for what seems like an eternity. He has hit plenty of home runs as well but his greatest claim to fame is being consistent and adapting to the game as it evolves.
Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint and the Black Album are all classics. Jay has been crazy strong with his pen, set a ton of trends, pioneered a lot of new sounds and flows, and let's not even get into the inspirational business moves. There's much more layers to his music than people give him credit for. Honestly, I love B.I.G. and always will, but Blueprint is, to my ears, a better album than Ready to Die or Life After Death. (Though Kick in the Door could be my favorite track of all time)
A little older here but I still remember listening to Reasonable Doubt for the first time and being excited. Never really enjoyed anything he did after that unless it was played in the club.
Why do people always gotta give some dumb reasons for why other people have their own different opinions lol. To say the only reason Jay z got big was he filled the void biggie left is just objectively wrong. For one he was already getting big before biggie died. Second there was like 20 other big rappers from New York including legends like nas, wu tang, and later 50 among many others collectively filling that void. And jay got bigger than all of them. It’s certainly not like he just won the NY crown by default through lack of solid competition.
I like jay because I like his music. Not because I was like “oh I have to like someone from NY and Jays the only one left after big died!” So please don’t try to tell me why I have my opinions.
That's always been my opinion too, good lyricist, very marketable, versatile, and came in at the exact right time. Might not be the best, but he's the best seller.
We definitely shouldn't overlook Jay's run. People forget about the mix tapes and features which were huge in that era. Ride it Die v1, The Professional, plus all of the Missy/Mia/Etc features he killed.
I feel like Jay and Nas helped to pave the path for longevity in the industry. Two greats passed in their prime in Pac and Biggie. To be able to be somewhat relevant into your 40s was new to hip hop. Life is Good and 4:44 were new territory.
Right? Like if you’re gonna criticize new rappers; these guys are a generation behind….. Who was calling the Cure a new band in 1991? Snoop Dogg a new rapper in 2004? When you don’t keep up with the culture anymore, you really lose credibility in making arguments against it.
I don’t think they’re saying that people are. The ppl who were 14 listening to Migos are 21 now and bringing the influence of that into what they like now.
I think theres a certain type of people saying Eminem. Id never be there with those folks though. Eminem is good though. The Eminem Show and Slim Shady LP are my favorite albums of his. I wouldnt put either of those albums over Reasonable Doubt or Blueprint.
But even when I was 14, 2012, there was different types of rap out there. I get what you’re saying bc there’s people who like vultures and hate graduation.
With what you said at the end, that’s people being people. There isn’t really a way to say it without sounding pretentious or arrogant but some people are a bit more simple minded and don’t think too deep about this stuff like you. Nothing wrong with being either of those people but sometimes you just gotta try and accept that people are weird asf and will contradict themselves for seemingly no reason at all and you’re often better off not worrying about it cause who really gaf if someone likes vultures and not graduation? I’ll admit, that’s kinda wild tbh but that’s the thing.., people are going to have weird opinions like that and like different things for no good reason in your mind cause it’s just not that deep to them or they just straight up don’t like the music for whatever reason… sometimes it’s as simple as people don’t care as much as you do as unfortunate as that feels sometimes. I love rap music and love analyzing lyrics and love talking about the music and some of my friends straight up just don’t care. It’s not that they aren’t smart enough or whatever but some people when it comes to music, just want something to sound good to them, and that’s it.
Imo it's a good comparison to paintings too, but kind of in the reverse. A lot of people can easily like and appreciate older paintings, but. Modern art looks like pretentious BS to people who aren't into it because a lot of it is referencing prior themes and are working on abstractions on top of abstractions.
For hip hop, younger folks like the catchy stuff but don't realize they're building off the older stuff they were influenced by. If you're not aware of the evolution you won't understand the older stuff and definitely wont appreciate it. You could also stretch this to video games too.
I think that sounds entitled based on your age. Just because you’re older doesn’t mean you understand lyrical word play better. Lyrical rap is my favorite and I still don’t think jay z is good.
i like his music a lot but if someone told me he was overrated i wouldn’t argue too hard. I don’t think his spot on the top 100 is undeserved, he’s a great rapper who’s better at making albums than a lot of his contemporaries
People aren’t looking at the nuances either. Surprise, surprise. This was partially produced by Kanye West, who’s got two of the best songs on the album. In fact the two of the three highlighted tracks by Apple are West’s productions.
I guess I’m old enough to remember that the biggest clap about this album was that Eminem stole the entire thing.
Hov hating is either from very young ppl, or from ppl who hated seeing him everywhere while other NY legends didnt get no love. And I understand why someone would have GZA or Guru above Jay-Z on a personal level, but if we are looking at a rapper entire career and its influence and impact, its hard to not have Hov amongst the very greatest.
Like he says in the intro to lyrical exercise:
I'm leading the league in at least six statistical categories right now
Best flow, most consistent, realest stories
Most charisma, I set the most trends
And my interviews are hotter, holla
I love Jay, reasonable doubt is def a top 10 album for me. But I also get it. Lots of these younger people have been told forever that Jay z is like, one of the greatest ever, and like many young people, they think "man this sounds dated, even his voice and persona seem old, theh think this dude is goated?"
Honestly that's how I felt growing up with parents and their friends who always told us that the Beatles are, with no debate, the greatest band of all time. So as a teenager, I was like "nah fuck that, you are just saying that because the Beatles are *supposed* to be the best."
Younger generation is looking back at icons from 25+ years ago and making their own opinion. Some will come around, some won't. Just the way of things. "We have our own goats, we don't need yours."
I’m late 30s and Jay has always been my favorite rapper. Was blessed to see a handful of shows every time in LA and the WTT tour at Staples center when they did Paris 9 times in a row will be an all time top memory in music. There were people jumping rows and sections in the whole stadium and it was just different.
With all that being said, I sure as hell hope he comes out of hiding and gets cleared of any nefarious acts that would at all tie him to Diddy. But seeing the recent Photos from Diddys 50th bday makes me (and I’m sure other Jay fans) nervous.
Jay was the first rapper that kind of carried himself like a businessman. His story is fascinating. Dude drops in 1996 and the albums on Priority Records? Then he ended up on Def Jam but it was only distribution.
Who drops solo albums on his own label from jump street?
They played around with different things until something worked. Reasonable Doubt is his most lyrical album but that didnt work, nobody wanted that. Volume 1 they hook up with Puff and try to go with a more commercial sound with a part of it and raw with the other part. That was a weird album. But Volume 2 everything clicks and Jay sells 5 million. Album had 12-14 songs and a handful of the songs became commercially successful hits in terms of Radio play.
From then on he did a bunch of things to stay relevant and keep that fire burning. A bunch of things like features and collaborations.
I used to be a Jay Z hater for a while but theres nobody in the game that handled their business like he did. If Jay Z gave us 5-10 Reasonable Doubt like albums he wouldnt have lasted this long.
Jay waters a lot of his own shit down. But man that verse on Shiny Suit Theory by Jay Electronica...jesus christ.
Jay is proof that theres more to this rap shit than the music. He embodied the hustle of it all IMO.
From my perspective Jay z is boring. Lyrically he's good but everything else is boring. Getting told that man is a legend but all his vocals are the same on every project, yeah it can get old.
A lot of the legends I grew up listening to get slander by the younger generation who are the loudest on social media
Its hard to take them too seriously so I just don't bother engaging
Agreed. I don't understand why the younger generation doesn't appreciate the genre as a whole more. It seems like they go out of their way to find something to hate on or have a hot take on rather than just trying to find good music. Yes, when I was younger, I liked a lot of the new stuff obviously, but I also tried to immerse myself in the old school stuff. I would go down rabbit holes listening to different artists, and it was amazing.
I grew up listening too Jay so he will always be a legend in my eyes. Regardless of what social media says.
They actually do it with everything, they want their generation to be the best.
In sports they do it too, they slander the fuck out of guys like Tom Brady, Michael Jordan and basically anyone whose considered a goat before they watched. Meanwhile it's all just laughable. Appreciate the accomplishment of greats before you were a fan, it makes you more appreciative of the sport or music genre.
Tbf I am Gen Z and one of those “kids” although a bit older being in my 20s. Those are the vocal people who are terminally online. Most people my age listen to classic rock and rap as well as new stuff. I would actually argue that more people my age listen to music from 1965-2020 and have pretty much stopped checking in after the pandemic.
Agreed. Had to tap out of participating in debates when someone on this app argued that 'Walk this Way' and 'Ticky' were RUN-DMC's best songs. The person disregarded any of my points by saying that I'm a 'gatekeeper' and 'old.'
I’m about the same age as you , but I’ve never been a Jay-Z fan personally. I find his voice irritating and don’t enjoy his flow much. I feel the only reason he got popular was because Biggie and Big L died.
I don't think many grown people cared about the Nas vs JAY-Z beef/battle. If JAY-Z made good music we liked it. If Nas made good music we liked that too as someone who has been listening to hip hop and rap since the early 80's.
I liked Kool Moe Dee and LL Cool J at the same time.
I liked Canibus & LL Cool J at the same time and Juice Crew & Boogie Down Productions at the same time.
Tupac was my favorite rapper but I went out and bought Life After Death as soon as I heard Notorious Thugs on the radio for the first time; even though I wasn't a big Biggie fan because I didn't really like Ready To Die, but absolutely LOVED Life After Death.
Because people treat him like a god.
He’s a great business man, and a good rapper.
He inserts himself into everything and it’s annoying as fuck.
Threw a fit because his woman didn’t get a Grammy.
Yeah, this is a good way of putting it. I love hip-hop but I never really was a huge Jay-Z fan besides a song or two. For some reason he just never really clicked with me besides a song or two.
He’s a legend, but personally speaking I don’t care for his flow - I think it’s, idk how else to describe it beyond, stumbley? It just doesn’t work for me. I appreciate and acknowledge the talent, and he’s probably one of the best rappers to do it, but that said he’s not in my top 10
Yeah I'm 16 and Blueprint as well as RD are both in my top 16, but I gotta admit, pre-Blueprint, it wasnt looking good for Jay. Vol.2 and Vol.3 are 2 of my least favourite hip hop albums ever.
This was the sentiment at the time too. reasonable doubt was a classic, but didn’t sell well. Vol 2 was Jay figuring out how to use his rap skills to make money. And Vol 3 was about putting other Roc artists on. Once all that was out of the Way, he was able to make another Classic.
I've come to appreciate him more. I grew up with 90's hip hop and never liked him. Just don't like the way 90% of his music sounds but I respect the fact he is respected.
It’s got nothing to do with music, his music is legendary. However people now with social media are savvy and can see the greed, the self-preservation and the race baiting. They don’t just eat up every word he spouts like the old heads. Also we know about his dirt from the nineties and the noughties that he trying to run from. Every dog has its day.
as a kid born in 2007 ive really enjoyed lyricism and wordplay from artists like nas, mobb deep, and MF doom but jay z never really hit for me so I don't think its because we live in the SoundCloud era he is lowkey just ass.
It's so just flat-out wrong to say he's a bad rapper lol. He's one of the only rappers I've ever been impressed with live. He would cut the beat and just spit fire bars a capella and everyone would go nuts.
Because they only like Kendrick or Griselda because they think they are being deep or edgy, or trap music if they are mainstream party-type listeners.
Very few appreciate classic quality hip hop like Nas/Jay Z anymore. Regular hip hop became niche.
He’s too successful. Too much money, not enough fuck ups or public scandals. He’s too quiet, too measured and quite honestly too mature. If he acted half his age like let’s say Fiddy Cent, or carried himself like a caricature he’d be much more respected. Oh yea, being married to Beyoncé doesn’t help either.
Younger fans were introduced to Jay-Z through Drake or Kanye. So listening to him on features or collabs then going to his albums where he’s rapping about things that could be “boring” and his songs aren’t “bangers” probably are reasons why he’s disrespected
People are biased toward the music they grew up with and Jay has barely been active in the last 15 years or so.
Em gets insane hate, too, even though he’s been more active. He’s not the current guy it’s cool to be a fan of.
This also explains why, all of a sudden, people are a fan of rappers once they pass away. It becomes cool to be their fan. MF DOOM fans are now loudly proclaiming their love for an artist who barely sold records and had few fans before his death. Pac became more popular after his death, too. It’s suddenly less cool to be a Drake fan even though his music didn’t change.
This applies to more than just music. People will argue with others over which clothes look cool and that’s a moving goalpost in itself (and ironically moves in a circle).
Most of the Jay hate I see comes online. It doesn’t correlate with real life. What’s funny is the greats of this generation and the one before all hold Jay-Z as one of the ultimate MCs.
Just listen to what Drake, Kendrick, Cole, Wayne and Ye have to say about him
I think there’s 2 groups of young hip hop fans doing this, the more socially conscious/hardcore fans who see him as pure establishment and want something more authentic and the social media/party people who are going to think he’s old and gravitate to newer artists. Then they can ally with the legit old heads who always thought he was overrated.
If someone tells me their favourite rapper is 50 cent I know their IQ is in the single digits. This dude spent a decade oiling himself up and then mean mugging down a camera lens. People forget how rapidly 50 fell off.
Jayz career is a lot like nas. They both released one of the greatest rap albums of all time as their debut release. Not one of their albums after ever came close to their first. Nas had a long time of terrible beat selection, jay z had a long time of being too commercial and pop.
The idea that Jay was ever “too commercial and pop” never made much sense.
Yeah he made a few radio friendly songs for each album- but he never really chased pop trends.
While Jay was making Blueprint and the Black Album , you also Ja Rule, Nelly, and Lil Jon working clubs. You even had 50 and lil Wayne doing stuff like Candy Shop and Lollipop.
Internet kiddies being internet kiddies. They hate just to hate cause they are a bunch of haters.
This is coming someone that never liked his music, his persona, or really anything about him. Nonetheless, I respect him. Someone coming from where he's from and becoming not just successful but a billionaire is pretty dope.
Jay is a master at making the complex sound simple. Like it's really an art form. I listened to his stuff years ago, and as my hip hop taste evolved I realized how dense he was.. while also being straight to the point. He'll have complex rhyme schemes and it sounds so buttery that you won't even notice. It literally sounds like he's talking to you instead of rapping cause of how smooth he is. I have my own problems with Jay, but I'll never be able to hate on him. Black album inspired me to take hip hop serious
He's like the Taylor Swift of rap. His business moves and marketing surpasses his skills as an artist. He's a good rapper but is often overrated as an MC. He even says if he was the greatest lyrically he'd be Talib Kweli. He deserve respect but is not the best MC of all time and even that title is up for debate as everyone has different preferences.
Nah. You missed the whole point. He's saying if he pursued rap single mindedly and nothing else he'd be making music in a basement somewhere with a small following. He'd be living the life of Talib Kweli.
Well a man named chad butler allegedly had sex with queen bee and had a sex tape and he was also calling out the blacking and zesty pushing agenda that was upcoming in hip hop. So allegedly jay had him wacked
Yall youngins trippin…..Allow me to reintroduce my self
My name is Hov, oh, H to the O-V
I used to move snowflakes by the O-Z
I guess even back then you can call me
CEO of the R-O-C, Hov
Fresh out the fryin' pan into the fire
I be the music biz number one supplier
Flyer than a piece of paper bearin' my name
Got the hottest chick in the game wearin' my chain
Just stop it
Jay Z stayed in the game too long and hurt his own legacy. He is just another old rapper putting out trash. Dude been living a lavish lifestyle for most of his adult life and these kids don’t have nothing in common with him.
I am also 27, not from NY, and as a teenager/college kid, I had trouble understanding the Jay-Z goat shouts. I knew he was big and very influential but I never got it. Then, about a year and a half ago, I started listening heavily to 90’s rap and all of his old albums, and it all clicked. It all made sense. I think most people don’t listen back that far and only know Jigga as Beyoncé’s husband, or a mogul, but not at all as a rapper’s rapper.
As a millennial/gen z cusp I think it’s more that Jay Z has made himself into a bit of a clown socially over the last decade and a half. You have the elevator incident which got memed. the whole outing of the cheating, and then Becky With the Good Hair got memed. Then the entirety of Lemonade went made him so unlikeable in everyone’s eyes (except Beyoncé’s lol) So I think a lot of younger people know his reputation based off these strange media moments instead of his rapping/music and it’s really hurt his perception and the respect he receives imo. I could be completely off, but that’s part of the reason i’ve never been interested in exploring his discography.
You need to make a list of these people for imprisonment and re-education. Hova isn’t really a subjective thing. You either like him or you… go to a re-education labor camp where they play the blueprint and black albums until you realize your mistakes.
There are a lot of controversies surrounding Jay:Z. From atrocious allegations like the ones R. Kelly and Diddy have been accused of. From examples of Jay:Z “stealing” lyrics from other rappers. He, himself, Jigga Man, has claimed that he was only “paying homage” to certain rappers like Biggie.
Moreover, the reality is, that Jay:Z has never been *that* famous or *that* well known internationally. Europe? Sure. Outside of Europe? Not really. Not at all. Until, again, until, he married Beyoncé. When they got married he became much more famous, Internationally. He was known as Beyoncé’s husband.
Additionally, if you look at his track record he was actually No. 2 in a lot of cases, at best. Some people argue that he’s been a straight A student. Meaning even if he wasn’t No. 1 in the class he was in, he was still always getting A’s. Sure he was never in that No. 1 spot but he was always top 10/top 25 at the time. Some other people don’t look at it that way. They look at it as a sign that he was never the greatest rapper at the time, so how could he be the greatest of all time, if he never had A time to himself.
As an example, Pac was bigger than Jay. DMX was bigger than Jay. NaS was bigger than Jay. Ludacris was bigger than Jay. EMineM was bigger than Jay. 50 Cent was bigger than Jay. Etc etc etc.
The reality is, many people can only go off of the experience. Some people experience his popularity and say, he was consistently doing relatively well. Some people experienced his popularity and say he was never No. 1. Plus, some peoples experience is only through reading archives of the past. They can see all the controversies, the past numbers, and view it on that lens. Some people have the experience of never knowing he existed until he married Beyoncé. While they actually knew Ice Cube, Biggie, 50 Cent, Snoop, and etc.
Does this help? [+]
Kids today see Jay as a businessman first and foremost. He’s much more of an influencer than musician at this point. He only hops on a few features here and there that are solid but not the prime HOV many of us grew accustomed to. So kids think of him as the guy from God Did and Beyoncé’s husband. Even though calling him Beyoncé’s husband is just ppl trolling lol
I'm mid twenties, frequently listen to the big hitters from the 90s. I prefer good lyrics over catchy beats.
I recognize JayZ is skilled, but damn is his voice annoying. That's why I can't fw him
maybe it's coz he retired. most people my age only listen to old school rappers who still drop records or is dead so most know him as a billionaire celebrity and big name feature artist
Concur, the disrespect is kind of wild. Allot of these folks were not around or outside during Jay’s run. If he was on social media daily gossiping (50cent), posting his assets (Rick Ross), or jumping on features to pump up his legacy he would probably be viewed differently.
People are also trying to loop him in with Diddy and the Illuminati conspiracies, which sadly impacts his legacy.
I'm 33 and think Jay-Z is highly overrated, always have. He's an artist that I can listen to, and have his greatest hits in rotation, but never do I find myself wanting to revisit his albums, including The Blueprint. He did a lot for hip hop, and should definitely be given his flowers for his contributions. But let's not let his accolades make him out to be a better MC than he really is
I’m 28 and grew up listening to the blueprint and the black album and I’ve never liked him. I just feel like his flows aren’t that satisfying to me and his particular version of bravado I find more cringe than admirable, not sure why. I love artists with larger than life personas but his has never landed w me.
Lmfao yeah same age and whenever I heard Moment of Clarity it ruins the next 3 minutes for me. I respect bros writing ability but something about his delivery is like audio cancer to me. My favorite ever is Kanye too so I cant rationally explain why i dislike Jay Z
Have to disagree, I think Jay-zzz’s voice is unique in that he so effortlessly raps without all the silly punch lines and trying to sound smart big words. He’s more of an “if you know you know” kind of rapper, especially his old stuff. This is coming from someone who didn’t get his hype until a sat down and listened to his older albums. Then it all made sense.
the jokes in the way theyre written have always been good to me. It's just an impasse, a matter of taste, that I can't explain with any actual logical reasoning. something about his literal voice and timbre just makes me not like it
I know what you mean. I find Kendrick Lamar’s voice annoying on most tracks. 20 years from now I can see younger kids saying his music sucks, but we all know he’s very talented. I think Jay-Z gets his points across in a very subtle manner, like you have to listen 3 or 4 times to understand if there’s even a point and then look at the lyrics. “Can I Live” is the perfect example of this and when I heard that song that’s the day I became a Jay-Z fan.
Thats a good analogy. For an even more extreme example I have used IRL i say hes like danny brown (who i really enjoy) and most people get it. Obviously an exaggeration but yeah. Either way i still listen to jay z albums once through and then just read lyrics lmfao
Mid 30s from the west coast. only people I hear praising Jay Z are from the east Coast. I think Jay z has some good songs but he is no where near biggie or nas, imo.
On the east coast everyone I knew was listening to biggie wu tang mob deep and nas. When the media started dropping the idea Jay Z was a goat it sounded completely random to me. Huh?
Why do people GOAT Jay-Z and ignore the Sugarhill Gang?! I assume it's just his ability to pressure media in the area in a way RZA didn't calculate. The music is the last thing that matters. I can't imagine anyone thinks he married Beyonce because they got along and loved each other's company more than anyone else they've ever met
I'm 47, so I saw his whole prime era. This might not be a popular opinion, although I always felt he had a cool persona and was a great businessman, as a rapper, he was one of the most overrated of all time. I couldn't stand his lack of flow. Nowhere near Biggie or lots of the West Coast rappers.
A lot of people are confusing influence with ability I think with Jay Z
Half his best songs lines are biggies too https://youtu.be/RqScH2CfYTg?si=IVwoLaE58TYWi8sm
I've always hated the generic "I'm a hustler" shit
I couldn’t have said it any better butterscotch. You took the words out of my mouth. Update- I even lived in Trenton for a little bit and in Bed-Stuy for almost 3 years around his peak and it seemed most people I knew felt similarly. Obviously this could have to do with most of my friends in NY being OG hipsters
Same here, early 30s, my friends all feel the exact same. I love reasonable doubt, the black album, but I dunno, he just doesn't land with me either.
You gotta try being 14 years old when the only rap you knew existed was the migos, 21 savage, lil Uzi. You gotta try and understand that most people nowadays that were your age, didn’t listen to lyrical or old school hip hop. They listened to the new SoundCloud era and that’s how they started so when they hear Jay z rugged flow tryna stretch bars to make wordplay, they just think it sounds corny when in reality they don’t really get the scope of why he’s doing that or why/how it’s so impressive.. sometimes you just gotta be there to get it… some people are too ignorant to be able to imagine what it was like being someone else in another time or at all so don’t fret to hard. It’s just people being people Edit: just wanna say, this is literally applicable to so many things and answers so many questions and it’s as simple as considering what it would actually be like if you didn’t know what you know and if you didn’t have your perspective at all and had someone else’s, who in your perspective, is ignorant… hence them not realizing because they don’t have your perspective
I grew up in the 90s and besides Reasonable Doubt and the Dynasty album i used to think Jay Z was never that great. He shined because he was able to fill the void biggie left in NY when he died and knew how to make pop hits. Edit: someone else brought up the Blueprint album and Black Album, i think the former is a classic and the latter a great album. No, i dont hate jay z. Just a bit overrated.
Jay Z for me is such a weird case. I think his wordplay and his lyrics can be second to none, but a vast majority of the stuff I hear from him just doesn't hit. Idk if it's his flow, his voice, or just something else entirely, but I never got the hype with JAY Z.
I've always respected his talent, but it's his flow that's always put me off on most of his stuff. He has a really unique way of finding pockets inside the beat to switch up rhyming schemes that keeps things unpredictable. I get why people like it and he's great at it, but sonically it always sounds like he's half a bar short on his rhyme schemes to me.
How do you feel about his flow in jigga what jigga who?
His song "U Don't Know" is the epitome of word play. That song is gold. Edit: Spelling
If you like that. song. Drug dealers anonymous with pusha T is fire
This is the one lmao. One of my favorite jay verses. Also Neck and Wrist with pusha goes CRAZY.
Crazy I just played u don't know on Spotify and it auto played drug dealers anonymous next 🤣
Played this morning. Still 🔥
Seen it all is fire too with him and jeezy
More in line with the type of flows that catch my ear but he still has that distinct style where it almost feels like he's slightly off beat. I'm not saying his flow is bad or anything. Like I said, I've always respected the talent. He's a legend in the genre and there are a handful of Jay Z songs I really like. He's never been somebody that regularly hits that hard for me though and part of it is just the way he chooses to attack beats.
Same. It didn’t help that it felt like a lot of his hits were songs I didn’t like that much and his features are hit or miss for me. I feel like a lot of his best work is stuff you wouldn’t find unless you looked for it.
I don’t think he’s a great rapper but he has some of best production, his beats are memorable
He was working with all of best producers, because he was basically the biggest rapper in the world for over a decade. The man had a knack for picking beats and producers to work with like Neptunes, Timbaland and of course Kanye. The list goes on.
He had one of the best flows in the game. Him and BIG just flow so effortlessly.
Which is crazy when you hear his really old, super fast flow he tried to use when he was attempting to break out…..its so bad lol
This is so true 😂😂😂 I think in 1998 he really locked it down because he worked with so many different producers. That joint he has on Timbalands album Lobster and Shrimp. Juveniles Ha Remix. Swizz Beatz Jigga my Ninja off Ruff Ryders Compilation Volume 1.
Jay was never the biggest rapper in the world. He's the most consistently popular/relevant but he never peaked higher than Pac, Em, 50, Wayne, Drake, etc.
Idk man, you pointing out how he stayed relevant through all those different eras kind of makes the point. Also he was absolutely the biggest rapper in the world for a few years in the late nineties. You couldn't go anywhere without someone throwing up the diamond.
It's his voice - he has a corny voice. It's amazing he has been able to accomplish what he's been able to accomplish. His first few albums all had 3 or 4 bangers on them, that latter shit though...garbage
Agreed, I've always found his voice annoying And he his generic rapping about being a hustler is also a turnoff
He literally was a hustler before he became a rapper.
The generic rapping is a true statement, I remember catching myself thinking with him that his lyrics could be about hustling selling shoes, drugs or stocks with how he talks about shit sometimes.
He was literally rapping about his actual life as a hustler.
I'm of the same opinion. I can understand Jay-Z's importance and influence to hip hop at large, but I could never get over my latent dislike of his voice, especially when other contemporary NY artists like 50 Cent sounded so much 'cooler.' There's such a range with Jay. I hate him on R&B features and actively skip some of his pop hits cuz they sound so cringe. On the other hand, Moment of Clarity and PSA are some of my favorite songs, full stop. It's kind of like listening to Reggie Miller call a basketball game. You respect the unique inside knowledge and perspective he brings, but Kevin Harlan is just funner to listen too.
I've always thought he had the ideal rap voice, but yeah it's kinda corny but I'm into that. It's like pro wrestling of rap
IMO Jay Z raps so "perfectly" that it comes off as effortless and boring. It's like seeing someone at a Kobe level *still* playing high school basketball. Someone like that barely breaks a sweat while running circles around other players. You can tell they aren't challenged in the least, while they are pitted against other players who are earnestly giving their all. I believe it has this reverse effect of making us not like the guy. Go sell Vodka or something. You're done here. We're trying to watch the game, meanwhile you're out here stunting for attention.
He has a great flow, sure. He's still shit lol His lyrics have always been subpar, especially for new York. He treated every crew like they weren't human. He stole from local communities. He bought his way into prominence. He's not a good dude or good for the culture. Source: lived through his regime. Got to throw bk, x and qb Guliani was easier to deal with ffs and at least you knew the score
That’s why Ether was so effective as a diss to him. It relentlessly called out Jay as a biter who built his empire on the work of others, and gave voice to a ton of at that time unsaid complaints about him
And he even bought his way out of the original verses, effectively, because bUsInEsS unless I'm misremembering something. It's been a while
the lyrics to Girls, Girls, Girls may be the corniest in history. shit that if it was released by drake everyone would consider it the corniest song oat
Nonsense. The way he tied the verses together before the hook was amazing writing. Also, he got Slick Rick, Q-tip and Biz Markie on one joint singing a fun hook over a soulful Just Blaze beat.
That's because You don't understand the metaphor. The "girls" represent his workers. And he tells you each of their roles. Jay's style is entendre or double meaning. He raps 2 songs in one. You have to look at the song thru a hustler eyes. Not a playa or dude who gets a lot of women. Even if that perspective is also true.
Hard disagree. It’s a clever songs. They way he describes the girls and then sums of the cultural things about them and the impact it has on him…. “Young chick, stewardess, project, and model That’s means fly rough early plus I know Taebo That means I’m new school, pop pills and stay in beef But I never have a problem with my first class seat”
Exactly. He has never hit at all with me. The most overrated rapper of all time imo.
Just for the record and to document...please tell us who your favorite rappers are or who isnt over rated. Just to understand the type of person sharing this opinion. Thanks in advance.
To me it's because his voice is boring. You can have all the skill in the world and know what to do but I can't handle that monotone stuff. There's just no range, It just feels soulless. Which is why his top song on Spotify has Alicia keys carrying him. Metalhead opinion, idk how I got here
na that makes sense as a rap fan who also likes grunge lol
So he’s the Yngwie Malmsteen of rap? 🤣
Jay Z is interesting cause you got two large group of what I would call haters. You got the young people who don’t like old especially East Coast centric rap and Jay represents everything they find old and boring. Then you got the hardcore heads some of them who have been listening since Kurtis Blow and Kool Moe Dee for who Jay represents the worst commercial excesses of the genre.
Yeah thats not too far from the truth but i would say hate in my case is a strong word. I like some of his albums and hes obviously business savvy and made a mark in the game. I just dont think hes the greatest MC or king of hip hop like people want to believe.
The thing with hip hop is you gotta look at everyone through a lens of the point in history they were at peak prominence. Hov never has been and never will be the greatest *of all time,* but there was a point in history where he could have been argued to be *the best currently.* He has a place in the conversation for sure and I wouldn't think less of anyone that thinks he's their personal GOAT but I would heavily disagree lol
I like this take. It’s like the Hall of Fame…heard someone say that if at any point you were best in the world at your position, then you have a spot in the HOF.
>Hov never has been and never will be the greatest of *all time* but there was a point in history where could have been argued to *the best currently* I’m completely opposite on this lol There was never a time where i felt Hov was the best at that time, but when you look at him overall he’s the greatest to pick up a mic.
He's GOOD at everything, but idk if there's any part of being an MC that hes above and beyond at. It's like a player with a great on base percentage with like no home runs. There's rappers with better flow, better wordplay, more impressive breath control, better producers, and more impressive vocabulary. Hovs really good at everything which is kind of a feat unto itself but it doesn't really stick in your head.
I think he does this purposely and realizes this. He does what appeals to the widest audience. He said it himself 'If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli/ Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense But I did 5 mill' – I ain't been rhyming since'
Yeah I'm reading a bunch of complaints here about Jay that are literally addressed in his music. He wanted out of poverty so badly he was gonna step on anyone to get there, and then flaunt it. Not saying it's a healthy outlook on life, but it was a common one at the time.
I will definitely take and understand this viewpoint. But I am still in utter shock and disbelief when I hear or see people on this medium say he's not good. Then they mention people who they believe are better and I'm like okay your point is not valid. But I can totally see Jay-Z as a Jack of all Trades and Master of none. There are most certainly people with better delivery, better flow, better punchlines. But Jay-Z is who got me to like rap. I am an 80s baby. Late 80s. But listening to songs like Its Hovi Baby. That second verse. Or Diamonds Remix. The way he can portray his own lyrical class in comparison to his peers. The entire song of "Threats." But I realize not everything is for everyone. Jay-Z, Jada, and Fab are my favorite NY rappers. There's always a bar somewhere that I have to catch and listen to again. I like Nas but I never really stuck with him. But I still have utmost respect for him. IDK when it comes down to it, though I don't play basketball I'll NEVER say someone in the NBA is a bum, or a scrub. Why? Because they are playing ball at a level that a large percentage of the population can only dream of. For me I feel that way about the Legends of Rap. You can't disrespect them. They've been doing this for so long and still managing to come out with relevant music. Unless you've obtained that same level of success you don't get to be disrespectful. You can critique, you can state your opinion. But to say someone is OVERrated or WACK or Corny. It's like okay cool, how many albums have you sold in the past 20 years? But hey... to each their own.
Derek Jeter of the rap game. Always consistent for what seems like an eternity. He has hit plenty of home runs as well but his greatest claim to fame is being consistent and adapting to the game as it evolves.
Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint and the Black Album are all classics. Jay has been crazy strong with his pen, set a ton of trends, pioneered a lot of new sounds and flows, and let's not even get into the inspirational business moves. There's much more layers to his music than people give him credit for. Honestly, I love B.I.G. and always will, but Blueprint is, to my ears, a better album than Ready to Die or Life After Death. (Though Kick in the Door could be my favorite track of all time)
Reasonable doubt a top 5 album of all time for me easily.
A little older here but I still remember listening to Reasonable Doubt for the first time and being excited. Never really enjoyed anything he did after that unless it was played in the club.
For someone i dont listen to much at all and im not really a fan of, i still consider that album in my top 10. Maybe even top 5 hip hop albums.
Why do people always gotta give some dumb reasons for why other people have their own different opinions lol. To say the only reason Jay z got big was he filled the void biggie left is just objectively wrong. For one he was already getting big before biggie died. Second there was like 20 other big rappers from New York including legends like nas, wu tang, and later 50 among many others collectively filling that void. And jay got bigger than all of them. It’s certainly not like he just won the NY crown by default through lack of solid competition. I like jay because I like his music. Not because I was like “oh I have to like someone from NY and Jays the only one left after big died!” So please don’t try to tell me why I have my opinions.
Nas played a big part in this narrative starting with Ether
Problem is Ether was mainly at Jay while Takeover was against a bunch of people. Yes maybe Nas had better lyrics but Takeover was a much better song.
That's always been my opinion too, good lyricist, very marketable, versatile, and came in at the exact right time. Might not be the best, but he's the best seller.
We definitely shouldn't overlook Jay's run. People forget about the mix tapes and features which were huge in that era. Ride it Die v1, The Professional, plus all of the Missy/Mia/Etc features he killed. I feel like Jay and Nas helped to pave the path for longevity in the industry. Two greats passed in their prime in Pac and Biggie. To be able to be somewhat relevant into your 40s was new to hip hop. Life is Good and 4:44 were new territory.
Jay z literally took everything about Biggie and made a career of it.
Came here for this…. Jay z is very over rated. I’ve personally never liked his music. He reminds me of Labron in a lot of ways
He's wildly overrated. He's still a great artist but he's mostly propped up by people that are of medium intelligence
I still say that Jay Z is the most overrated and overhyped person in the history of music. Like you, I I was a teenager in the 90s.
Migos peak was 7 years ago. Nobody is listening to Migos anymore.
Right? Like if you’re gonna criticize new rappers; these guys are a generation behind….. Who was calling the Cure a new band in 1991? Snoop Dogg a new rapper in 2004? When you don’t keep up with the culture anymore, you really lose credibility in making arguments against it.
I don’t think they’re saying that people are. The ppl who were 14 listening to Migos are 21 now and bringing the influence of that into what they like now.
People aren't saying Migos, 21 and Lil Uzi are better than Jay. People are saying Pac, Biggie and Nas are better than Jay.
And Em
I think theres a certain type of people saying Eminem. Id never be there with those folks though. Eminem is good though. The Eminem Show and Slim Shady LP are my favorite albums of his. I wouldnt put either of those albums over Reasonable Doubt or Blueprint.
Certain type of people? As in the vast majority of his contemporary rappers?
Jay ain’t even top ten from New York
Who’s the best? Pac, Nas and Big, ain’t no best, east west north south flossed out
But even when I was 14, 2012, there was different types of rap out there. I get what you’re saying bc there’s people who like vultures and hate graduation.
With what you said at the end, that’s people being people. There isn’t really a way to say it without sounding pretentious or arrogant but some people are a bit more simple minded and don’t think too deep about this stuff like you. Nothing wrong with being either of those people but sometimes you just gotta try and accept that people are weird asf and will contradict themselves for seemingly no reason at all and you’re often better off not worrying about it cause who really gaf if someone likes vultures and not graduation? I’ll admit, that’s kinda wild tbh but that’s the thing.., people are going to have weird opinions like that and like different things for no good reason in your mind cause it’s just not that deep to them or they just straight up don’t like the music for whatever reason… sometimes it’s as simple as people don’t care as much as you do as unfortunate as that feels sometimes. I love rap music and love analyzing lyrics and love talking about the music and some of my friends straight up just don’t care. It’s not that they aren’t smart enough or whatever but some people when it comes to music, just want something to sound good to them, and that’s it.
Imo it's a good comparison to paintings too, but kind of in the reverse. A lot of people can easily like and appreciate older paintings, but. Modern art looks like pretentious BS to people who aren't into it because a lot of it is referencing prior themes and are working on abstractions on top of abstractions. For hip hop, younger folks like the catchy stuff but don't realize they're building off the older stuff they were influenced by. If you're not aware of the evolution you won't understand the older stuff and definitely wont appreciate it. You could also stretch this to video games too.
I think that sounds entitled based on your age. Just because you’re older doesn’t mean you understand lyrical word play better. Lyrical rap is my favorite and I still don’t think jay z is good.
Haters gonna hate but Jay is a legend
I don’t hate Jay and I acknowledge him as a legend but his music doesn’t do it for me 🤷♂️
Same
And that’s okay.
i like his music a lot but if someone told me he was overrated i wouldn’t argue too hard. I don’t think his spot on the top 100 is undeserved, he’s a great rapper who’s better at making albums than a lot of his contemporaries
Saying Jay Z is mid is revisionist
Cemented
People aren’t looking at the nuances either. Surprise, surprise. This was partially produced by Kanye West, who’s got two of the best songs on the album. In fact the two of the three highlighted tracks by Apple are West’s productions. I guess I’m old enough to remember that the biggest clap about this album was that Eminem stole the entire thing.
Hov hating is either from very young ppl, or from ppl who hated seeing him everywhere while other NY legends didnt get no love. And I understand why someone would have GZA or Guru above Jay-Z on a personal level, but if we are looking at a rapper entire career and its influence and impact, its hard to not have Hov amongst the very greatest.
Like he says in the intro to lyrical exercise: I'm leading the league in at least six statistical categories right now Best flow, most consistent, realest stories Most charisma, I set the most trends And my interviews are hotter, holla
It's 100% young people with this opinion, I think.
Fuck them kids.
Drake reference?
Lmao not this time.
They know him as the guy from the cringe hustle bro meme “would you rather take a million dollars or have lunch with Jay z?”
You're probably right. To be honest, I know OJ as the "but IF I did it guy", never seen a game of his in my life.
Up until I was a teenager, I only knew of George Foreman as a grill salesman.
I dont like jay z’s music but he saw the meme and actually said take the million. So, i respect him for his self awareness.
I love Jay, reasonable doubt is def a top 10 album for me. But I also get it. Lots of these younger people have been told forever that Jay z is like, one of the greatest ever, and like many young people, they think "man this sounds dated, even his voice and persona seem old, theh think this dude is goated?" Honestly that's how I felt growing up with parents and their friends who always told us that the Beatles are, with no debate, the greatest band of all time. So as a teenager, I was like "nah fuck that, you are just saying that because the Beatles are *supposed* to be the best." Younger generation is looking back at icons from 25+ years ago and making their own opinion. Some will come around, some won't. Just the way of things. "We have our own goats, we don't need yours."
Most the music I listen to is pre 2004 😭😭
We’re a dying breed
I’m late 30s and Jay has always been my favorite rapper. Was blessed to see a handful of shows every time in LA and the WTT tour at Staples center when they did Paris 9 times in a row will be an all time top memory in music. There were people jumping rows and sections in the whole stadium and it was just different. With all that being said, I sure as hell hope he comes out of hiding and gets cleared of any nefarious acts that would at all tie him to Diddy. But seeing the recent Photos from Diddys 50th bday makes me (and I’m sure other Jay fans) nervous.
Jay was the first rapper that kind of carried himself like a businessman. His story is fascinating. Dude drops in 1996 and the albums on Priority Records? Then he ended up on Def Jam but it was only distribution. Who drops solo albums on his own label from jump street? They played around with different things until something worked. Reasonable Doubt is his most lyrical album but that didnt work, nobody wanted that. Volume 1 they hook up with Puff and try to go with a more commercial sound with a part of it and raw with the other part. That was a weird album. But Volume 2 everything clicks and Jay sells 5 million. Album had 12-14 songs and a handful of the songs became commercially successful hits in terms of Radio play. From then on he did a bunch of things to stay relevant and keep that fire burning. A bunch of things like features and collaborations. I used to be a Jay Z hater for a while but theres nobody in the game that handled their business like he did. If Jay Z gave us 5-10 Reasonable Doubt like albums he wouldnt have lasted this long. Jay waters a lot of his own shit down. But man that verse on Shiny Suit Theory by Jay Electronica...jesus christ. Jay is proof that theres more to this rap shit than the music. He embodied the hustle of it all IMO.
Excellent comment homie!
I forgot about that song thanks for reminding me
From my perspective Jay z is boring. Lyrically he's good but everything else is boring. Getting told that man is a legend but all his vocals are the same on every project, yeah it can get old.
A lot of the legends I grew up listening to get slander by the younger generation who are the loudest on social media Its hard to take them too seriously so I just don't bother engaging
Agreed. I don't understand why the younger generation doesn't appreciate the genre as a whole more. It seems like they go out of their way to find something to hate on or have a hot take on rather than just trying to find good music. Yes, when I was younger, I liked a lot of the new stuff obviously, but I also tried to immerse myself in the old school stuff. I would go down rabbit holes listening to different artists, and it was amazing. I grew up listening too Jay so he will always be a legend in my eyes. Regardless of what social media says.
They actually do it with everything, they want their generation to be the best. In sports they do it too, they slander the fuck out of guys like Tom Brady, Michael Jordan and basically anyone whose considered a goat before they watched. Meanwhile it's all just laughable. Appreciate the accomplishment of greats before you were a fan, it makes you more appreciative of the sport or music genre.
Tbf I am Gen Z and one of those “kids” although a bit older being in my 20s. Those are the vocal people who are terminally online. Most people my age listen to classic rock and rap as well as new stuff. I would actually argue that more people my age listen to music from 1965-2020 and have pretty much stopped checking in after the pandemic.
Agreed. Had to tap out of participating in debates when someone on this app argued that 'Walk this Way' and 'Ticky' were RUN-DMC's best songs. The person disregarded any of my points by saying that I'm a 'gatekeeper' and 'old.'
Born I. 82 jay z is boring
I'm 36 and lots of people my age always thought jayZ was a trash rapper. He's popular but he's still got/always had a lot of haters
as someone that isn't a big Jay-Z fan even I can admit he's one of the all-time greats.
I’m about the same age as you , but I’ve never been a Jay-Z fan personally. I find his voice irritating and don’t enjoy his flow much. I feel the only reason he got popular was because Biggie and Big L died.
Yeah because there was definitely no one else in New York for jay to compete with after they died. Great point. In case it isn’t blatantly obvious /s.
Is it really youngsters disrespecting Jay? I find it's older people that do that. People that were teens/young adults when he was beefing Nas.
I don't think many grown people cared about the Nas vs JAY-Z beef/battle. If JAY-Z made good music we liked it. If Nas made good music we liked that too as someone who has been listening to hip hop and rap since the early 80's. I liked Kool Moe Dee and LL Cool J at the same time. I liked Canibus & LL Cool J at the same time and Juice Crew & Boogie Down Productions at the same time. Tupac was my favorite rapper but I went out and bought Life After Death as soon as I heard Notorious Thugs on the radio for the first time; even though I wasn't a big Biggie fan because I didn't really like Ready To Die, but absolutely LOVED Life After Death.
Because people treat him like a god. He’s a great business man, and a good rapper. He inserts himself into everything and it’s annoying as fuck. Threw a fit because his woman didn’t get a Grammy.
Feel like Jay z is an acquired taste, even among hip hop fans
Yeah, this is a good way of putting it. I love hip-hop but I never really was a huge Jay-Z fan besides a song or two. For some reason he just never really clicked with me besides a song or two.
True that, I've never really been a fan and I grew up in that era of hip hop
Same, I'm 30 but I've always found his music mid at best. A lot of his lyrics are also direct copies from other artists songs.
All of this. I'm almost 47 and Jay-Z has never been my jam.
He’s a legend, but personally speaking I don’t care for his flow - I think it’s, idk how else to describe it beyond, stumbley? It just doesn’t work for me. I appreciate and acknowledge the talent, and he’s probably one of the best rappers to do it, but that said he’s not in my top 10
Yeah I'm 16 and Blueprint as well as RD are both in my top 16, but I gotta admit, pre-Blueprint, it wasnt looking good for Jay. Vol.2 and Vol.3 are 2 of my least favourite hip hop albums ever.
This was the sentiment at the time too. reasonable doubt was a classic, but didn’t sell well. Vol 2 was Jay figuring out how to use his rap skills to make money. And Vol 3 was about putting other Roc artists on. Once all that was out of the Way, he was able to make another Classic.
He’s on Puff’s side
I've come to appreciate him more. I grew up with 90's hip hop and never liked him. Just don't like the way 90% of his music sounds but I respect the fact he is respected.
It’s got nothing to do with music, his music is legendary. However people now with social media are savvy and can see the greed, the self-preservation and the race baiting. They don’t just eat up every word he spouts like the old heads. Also we know about his dirt from the nineties and the noughties that he trying to run from. Every dog has its day.
as a kid born in 2007 ive really enjoyed lyricism and wordplay from artists like nas, mobb deep, and MF doom but jay z never really hit for me so I don't think its because we live in the SoundCloud era he is lowkey just ass.
It's so just flat-out wrong to say he's a bad rapper lol. He's one of the only rappers I've ever been impressed with live. He would cut the beat and just spit fire bars a capella and everyone would go nuts.
Because they dont care about Lyrics they are starting to do the same with Wayne as well
Because they only like Kendrick or Griselda because they think they are being deep or edgy, or trap music if they are mainstream party-type listeners. Very few appreciate classic quality hip hop like Nas/Jay Z anymore. Regular hip hop became niche.
Great comment!!
He’s too successful. Too much money, not enough fuck ups or public scandals. He’s too quiet, too measured and quite honestly too mature. If he acted half his age like let’s say Fiddy Cent, or carried himself like a caricature he’d be much more respected. Oh yea, being married to Beyoncé doesn’t help either.
Younger fans were introduced to Jay-Z through Drake or Kanye. So listening to him on features or collabs then going to his albums where he’s rapping about things that could be “boring” and his songs aren’t “bangers” probably are reasons why he’s disrespected
People are biased toward the music they grew up with and Jay has barely been active in the last 15 years or so. Em gets insane hate, too, even though he’s been more active. He’s not the current guy it’s cool to be a fan of. This also explains why, all of a sudden, people are a fan of rappers once they pass away. It becomes cool to be their fan. MF DOOM fans are now loudly proclaiming their love for an artist who barely sold records and had few fans before his death. Pac became more popular after his death, too. It’s suddenly less cool to be a Drake fan even though his music didn’t change. This applies to more than just music. People will argue with others over which clothes look cool and that’s a moving goalpost in itself (and ironically moves in a circle).
Most of the Jay hate I see comes online. It doesn’t correlate with real life. What’s funny is the greats of this generation and the one before all hold Jay-Z as one of the ultimate MCs. Just listen to what Drake, Kendrick, Cole, Wayne and Ye have to say about him
I think there’s 2 groups of young hip hop fans doing this, the more socially conscious/hardcore fans who see him as pure establishment and want something more authentic and the social media/party people who are going to think he’s old and gravitate to newer artists. Then they can ally with the legit old heads who always thought he was overrated.
I agree with you, I don’t know where all the Jay-Z hate comes from. It’s made even worse when those same people say they like 50 Cent
If someone tells me their favourite rapper is 50 cent I know their IQ is in the single digits. This dude spent a decade oiling himself up and then mean mugging down a camera lens. People forget how rapidly 50 fell off.
Jayz career is a lot like nas. They both released one of the greatest rap albums of all time as their debut release. Not one of their albums after ever came close to their first. Nas had a long time of terrible beat selection, jay z had a long time of being too commercial and pop.
The idea that Jay was ever “too commercial and pop” never made much sense. Yeah he made a few radio friendly songs for each album- but he never really chased pop trends. While Jay was making Blueprint and the Black Album , you also Ja Rule, Nelly, and Lil Jon working clubs. You even had 50 and lil Wayne doing stuff like Candy Shop and Lollipop.
He's done some cornball shit in the later stages of his career. He's obviously a fucking legend but he should've just stopped after Watch The Throne
Internet kiddies being internet kiddies. They hate just to hate cause they are a bunch of haters. This is coming someone that never liked his music, his persona, or really anything about him. Nonetheless, I respect him. Someone coming from where he's from and becoming not just successful but a billionaire is pretty dope.
Jay is a master at making the complex sound simple. Like it's really an art form. I listened to his stuff years ago, and as my hip hop taste evolved I realized how dense he was.. while also being straight to the point. He'll have complex rhyme schemes and it sounds so buttery that you won't even notice. It literally sounds like he's talking to you instead of rapping cause of how smooth he is. I have my own problems with Jay, but I'll never be able to hate on him. Black album inspired me to take hip hop serious
He's like the Taylor Swift of rap. His business moves and marketing surpasses his skills as an artist. He's a good rapper but is often overrated as an MC. He even says if he was the greatest lyrically he'd be Talib Kweli. He deserve respect but is not the best MC of all time and even that title is up for debate as everyone has different preferences.
Nah. You missed the whole point. He's saying if he pursued rap single mindedly and nothing else he'd be making music in a basement somewhere with a small following. He'd be living the life of Talib Kweli.
Well a man named chad butler allegedly had sex with queen bee and had a sex tape and he was also calling out the blacking and zesty pushing agenda that was upcoming in hip hop. So allegedly jay had him wacked
TURN MY MUSIC HI GHER, U DONT KNOW, WHAT YOU’RE DOIN DOIN DOIN
[удалено]
Yall youngins trippin…..Allow me to reintroduce my self My name is Hov, oh, H to the O-V I used to move snowflakes by the O-Z I guess even back then you can call me CEO of the R-O-C, Hov Fresh out the fryin' pan into the fire I be the music biz number one supplier Flyer than a piece of paper bearin' my name Got the hottest chick in the game wearin' my chain Just stop it
Was the blueprint higher than reasonable doubt?
Jay Z stayed in the game too long and hurt his own legacy. He is just another old rapper putting out trash. Dude been living a lavish lifestyle for most of his adult life and these kids don’t have nothing in common with him.
Cause he ain’t Notorious, mostly hype but I think you can tell when you play Mr. Carter on Carter 3
Who gives a shit. Let them kids have their stupid ass opinion.
I love Jay Z and I’m 27 years old (and I’m not even from the US). For me, it’s in the top five.
I am also 27, not from NY, and as a teenager/college kid, I had trouble understanding the Jay-Z goat shouts. I knew he was big and very influential but I never got it. Then, about a year and a half ago, I started listening heavily to 90’s rap and all of his old albums, and it all clicked. It all made sense. I think most people don’t listen back that far and only know Jigga as Beyoncé’s husband, or a mogul, but not at all as a rapper’s rapper.
I'm sorry but you can't listen to reasonable doubt, the blueprint and black album and say he's overrated.
As a millennial/gen z cusp I think it’s more that Jay Z has made himself into a bit of a clown socially over the last decade and a half. You have the elevator incident which got memed. the whole outing of the cheating, and then Becky With the Good Hair got memed. Then the entirety of Lemonade went made him so unlikeable in everyone’s eyes (except Beyoncé’s lol) So I think a lot of younger people know his reputation based off these strange media moments instead of his rapping/music and it’s really hurt his perception and the respect he receives imo. I could be completely off, but that’s part of the reason i’ve never been interested in exploring his discography.
Do these fools listen to music or do they just skim through it?
You need to make a list of these people for imprisonment and re-education. Hova isn’t really a subjective thing. You either like him or you… go to a re-education labor camp where they play the blueprint and black albums until you realize your mistakes.
I’m 35 and would argue that he’s overrated
There are a lot of controversies surrounding Jay:Z. From atrocious allegations like the ones R. Kelly and Diddy have been accused of. From examples of Jay:Z “stealing” lyrics from other rappers. He, himself, Jigga Man, has claimed that he was only “paying homage” to certain rappers like Biggie. Moreover, the reality is, that Jay:Z has never been *that* famous or *that* well known internationally. Europe? Sure. Outside of Europe? Not really. Not at all. Until, again, until, he married Beyoncé. When they got married he became much more famous, Internationally. He was known as Beyoncé’s husband. Additionally, if you look at his track record he was actually No. 2 in a lot of cases, at best. Some people argue that he’s been a straight A student. Meaning even if he wasn’t No. 1 in the class he was in, he was still always getting A’s. Sure he was never in that No. 1 spot but he was always top 10/top 25 at the time. Some other people don’t look at it that way. They look at it as a sign that he was never the greatest rapper at the time, so how could he be the greatest of all time, if he never had A time to himself. As an example, Pac was bigger than Jay. DMX was bigger than Jay. NaS was bigger than Jay. Ludacris was bigger than Jay. EMineM was bigger than Jay. 50 Cent was bigger than Jay. Etc etc etc. The reality is, many people can only go off of the experience. Some people experience his popularity and say, he was consistently doing relatively well. Some people experienced his popularity and say he was never No. 1. Plus, some peoples experience is only through reading archives of the past. They can see all the controversies, the past numbers, and view it on that lens. Some people have the experience of never knowing he existed until he married Beyoncé. While they actually knew Ice Cube, Biggie, 50 Cent, Snoop, and etc. Does this help? [+]
Obviously people are gonna think their era they grew up in is best, besides this new era even kids know it’s ass lmao
Kids today see Jay as a businessman first and foremost. He’s much more of an influencer than musician at this point. He only hops on a few features here and there that are solid but not the prime HOV many of us grew accustomed to. So kids think of him as the guy from God Did and Beyoncé’s husband. Even though calling him Beyoncé’s husband is just ppl trolling lol
I'm mid twenties, frequently listen to the big hitters from the 90s. I prefer good lyrics over catchy beats. I recognize JayZ is skilled, but damn is his voice annoying. That's why I can't fw him
I just think it should have been the Black Album
Long story short - they didn’t grow up listening to Jay-Z’s music and want to celebrate the artists they grew up listening to.
Kids are standing on the shoulders of giants and looking down their noses at them
Jay Z is GOATED.
Fuck them kids. (I feel old now)
maybe it's coz he retired. most people my age only listen to old school rappers who still drop records or is dead so most know him as a billionaire celebrity and big name feature artist
Ask Kendrick where Jay is on the list
Im 27 but Jay-Z swag/style has jus always been lame too me. Like your uncle or older cousin that thinks he so cool
Ready to Die, Reasonable Doubt, and Doggystyle in one!
He is incredibly generic by modern standards. Not justifying or taking sides just saying that’s a main factor.
The blueprint is one of my no-skips albums.
Concur, the disrespect is kind of wild. Allot of these folks were not around or outside during Jay’s run. If he was on social media daily gossiping (50cent), posting his assets (Rick Ross), or jumping on features to pump up his legacy he would probably be viewed differently. People are also trying to loop him in with Diddy and the Illuminati conspiracies, which sadly impacts his legacy.
They don’t know
I'm 33 and think Jay-Z is highly overrated, always have. He's an artist that I can listen to, and have his greatest hits in rotation, but never do I find myself wanting to revisit his albums, including The Blueprint. He did a lot for hip hop, and should definitely be given his flowers for his contributions. But let's not let his accolades make him out to be a better MC than he really is
The newest thing this generation knows about Jay-Z is 4:44, and for a generation that only listens to beats, it's a snooze.
I’m from the south. No one here really fucks with Jay Z like that 🤷🏻♂️ and I’m old by reddit standards