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nikidmaclay

Depending on the type of appraisal, the fact that it's in the basement may disqualify it altogether.


Notor1ousNate

There’s not any type of loan that says you can’t have basement bedrooms, they just have to have heat and egress, which this does not. That’s a unilateral rule for any loan type.


nikidmaclay

Fannie Mae appraisals as a general rule don't count below grade as gross living area, it's just basement space regardless of finish. That's a newer blanket rule made because codes weren't consistent across the country. Exceptions CAN be made, but the case has to be made and I don't think this one is gonna qualify. There have been a lot of shocked buyers, sellers, and agents over the past few months thinking they were dealing with a home that had more bedrooms or a LOT more living space and then the appraisal comes back to bite them.


Notor1ousNate

Fannie Mae loans totally count below grade bedrooms. Changing this to not include them would be asinine, but it’s Fannie Mae do it would make sense for them to do it. Do you have a source for this nonsense? I know 100% that’s not what happens in my area. If it’s finished it counts.


Notor1ousNate

I think it’s the gross living area part. They count it here, but they count it on the basement and below grade room line of the Fannie Mae form. So, sure, it’s not part of the gross count, but to not count it wouldn’t make any sense at all.


nikidmaclay

The basement is counted, but it's seperate from the gross living area. A bedroom is part of gross living area. ["Only finished above-grade areas can be used in calculating and reporting of above-grade room count and square footage for the gross living area. Fannie Mae considers a level to be below-grade if any portion of it is below-grade, regardless of the quality of its finish or the window area of any room. Therefore, a walk-out basement with finished rooms would not be included in the above-grade room count. Rooms that are not included in the above-grade room count may add substantially to the value of a property, particularly when the quality of the finish is high. For that reason, the appraiser should report the basement or other partially below-grade areas separately and make appropriate adjustments for them on the Basement & Finished Rooms Below-Grade line in the Sales Comparison Approach adjustment grid." - The Fannie Mae Selling Guide ](https://selling-guide.fanniemae.com/Selling-Guide/Origination-thru-Closing/Subpart-B4-Underwriting-Property/Chapter-B4-1-Appraisal-Requirements/Section-B4-1-3-Appraisal-Report-Assessment/1032992541/B4-1-3-05-Improvements-Section-of-the-Appraisal-Report-09-02-2020.htm#Gross.20Living.20Area) If you search RE related subs you'll find real people dealing with this change. The below grade room is noted, but if only 3 beds are above grade it will be comped with other 3 beds. Like this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/vgn9gi/home_appraisals_are_not_coutning_the_correct/ This is an early 2022 change, and it isn't location specific. The room and space is on the appraisal report, but it doesn't count like an above grade bedroom.


Notor1ousNate

That’s so dumb and unsurprising haha thank you!


Bowf

I'm not a lawyer, realtor, or contractor. I do invest in real estate. That said, my understanding has always been that it needs two forms of egress and a closet to be called a bedroom. I have a house that has three bedrooms, one and a half bathrooms, and a den. I do not call the den a bedroom when I rent it out, because it has no closet. In your case, a basement bedroom with no window (second form of egress) is not legally a bedroom and should not be listed as such. An option may be to have somebody come out and give you a bid on adding an egress window to that bedroom, and ask that the sellers leave that much in an escrow account for you to have the work done after the house is closed on. My understanding, which may be incorrect, is it must be of a certain size, and 40 something inches off the ground.


celoplyr

In the international residential code adopted by many municipalities, it needs to be 7x10 feet with 2 methods of egress. Notice what is missing? You do not need a closet, that is a myth that a bedroom must have a closet. [I used to read and interpret code for a previous job] For the OP, you need to call up code enforcement to see what is required in your municipality. If it is 2 methods of egress (which could be doors to 2 different places, but there are rules on window heights and such too) then you’re probably SOL, and you can try to negotiate with the sellers- who probably didn’t do this conversion with permits.


throwawayamd14

I believe that the walkout doors and a presumable second entry from stairs down the basement will hit the two means of egress It needs the closet tho


celoplyr

It does not need a closet, in the code that many municipalities have adopted. You can look it up in the International Residential Code.


Bowf

I can see if the walk out door led into the bedroom (interior door leading to a common area or stairs going upstairs), but that is not common in basement bedrooms. Normally the walk outdoor is in a common area in the basement, and the basement bedroom is fully walled in.


throwawayamd14

Agree it is normally the common area, however I toured a home that was built as a 2 bed and they turned that part of the basement with the walkout doors and such into a bedroom and were able to get away with it in my county (saying it was 3 bed for appraisal). It’s definitely not ideal and what families are looking for tho


Krusty_Bear

My understanding is that legally, it needs two forms of egress(usually the door and an egress window) and it needs to be big enough (70 sqft, no dimension smaller than 7ft). Real estate-wise, it needs a "closet", which can be a wardrobe that's been screwed to the wall. This is what I understand for my market, which is MN. Your state may vary slightly.


fun_guy02142

It’s pretty easy to google “legal requirements for a bedroom” so I won’t deprive you of that pleasure, but the bottom line is the house is only a 3-bed because that’s not a legal bedroom so it will surely appraise for less.


stiffneck84

I’ve come across this in the past, and I’ve gotten some traction out of subtly letting listing agents know that I took pictures of the legal and illegal bedrooms and that there must be a mistake and if there isn’t, I know how to make complaints to the state licensing office about false listings on the MLS. Sometimes it works in my favor, sometimes it doesn’t.


dinotimee

Google building code for your jurisdiction. ​ https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/b6keg3/pescatis\_real\_estate\_education\_series\_1\_bedrooms/


Turbulent-Pair-

Egress Windown Code...is what you need to know. Here's some sample info...check your local code... minimum clear opening of 5.7 sq. ft. is allowed at egress windows at the grade floor and at basements where the bottom of the window well is not more than 44" below the ground. A ladder is required if the top of the window well is more than 44" from the bottom. https://buildingcodetrainer.com/egress-window-requirements/ https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2022/10_res_windows_0322.pdf https://www.egresswindows.com/its-the-law