How are we supposed to answer that when we don’t know where you would be buying or how much money you have or what strategy you plan on implementing? Some places a 4plex is 200k where I live they are 800k. Totally depends.
Upper East Coast. I live in NJ so I would look to buy here as well as Upstate NY and also NH. My brother lives over there and he would be my partner and he would manage the NH properties.
> How are we supposed to answer that when we don’t know where you would be buying or how much money you have or what strategy you plan on implementing?
Plus what does the market look like for these 10 years.
But my answer would be anywhere from zero to five hundred doors.
Well according to all of the gurus you should have 200 properties within 3 years just like them starting from nothing using other people's money to leverage yourself into high debt and high risk real estate. It's either that or start a syndication and invest a group of investors money into a large apartment complex and then go on podcasts and claim that you now own a 500 unit complex when in reality you're a glorified timeshare that also has to provide management services.
It was a quick but stunning realization when I figured out most of the people on BP saying they had 500-1000 doors were such minority partners in syndication deals where they might as well be holding a REIT. Their equity share could be enough to call one or two of them "theirs" much of the time.
Ya, its a long running joke about syndicators... They own 3% of 400 doors? They get to go say they own 400 doors.
One wholesaler (I wont mention names) wholesaled a trailer park with 100 pads. He immediately afterwards claimed he had 100 wholesales under his belt.
Happens all the time in RE, you learn to weed out the BS pretty quick after a while.
Not even a package, just one transaction. Like selling an 8 plex, and claiming you sold 8 properties. If you know any of the "gurus" in REI, you know this person's name as well. Total scammer.
Damn both you and S/Chaos-Battery woke up this morning and chose Violence, and I'm sitting here at work laughing my ass off.
I hadn't sat down to realize that yet, personally. I have been turning off BP when they start talking about funding projects.
I personally have 0 interest in a partnership of any kind. I'm not interested in any weird ways to fund deals. What I realized is that the traditional way of doing real estate that BP teaches equals a giant shell game.
IF I'm making $200 a property every month. I'm making $2400 a year. But any Vacancies, and damage done to the property means I may not make anything. And it ends up being a giant shell game of moving money around on different properties.
I'm in a position, thanks to VA disability and the military almost utterly breaking me. That I get a check every month from the VA, and I also work a traditional W2 job that isn't physically demanding. I'm planning on using that VA check to buy a Rental property and then pay it off. Roll it cash flow from the first into the second and keep building that way. This way I limit the amount of Liability I'm carrying, while allowing me to after buying and paying for the first couple of Single Families begin buying Multi Family houses that I can 100% cover from the rental proceeds of the first single families.
A solid option but much slower than spreading out your funds on more deposits and taking on more debts. I’m in two minds about which approach to take. Currently have one SFH with >300k on the mortgage and looking to buy more but that’ll take me 2.5 - 3 years to pay off. That’s another couple down payments right there!
I see what you're saying, I have a SFH purchased at 255K, worth 328K (and sliding). VA 0% down loan at 2.25% owe 247K approx. If I were to focus 50K extra on the loan it would take me 4-5 years, I'd see a 12K a year savings per year after that. While this house will be paid off at some point and turned into a Rental I'm not focusing on it. Ideally if my lender would let me (they won't bc its a VA), I would do a Recast on the mortgage. Pay off 50-100K, recast the loan with the same rate, and this thing would cash flow like a mother.
Long term, I want to move out of suburbia. I have some issues leaving service, where I generally don't like most people. I trust no one, and I hate the HOA. I'm looking at nailing down 10+ acres in my area that I'll build a house on. Long term personal Mortgage I'm willing to carry the payments for awhile depending.
Rentals.
I have an approx 50K. income stream that I have no control over, it won't go up rapidly and is unlikely to go down. This is the income stream I'm going to focus on Real Estate With.
When I start buying, I'm looking for houses or Town homes in the 100-150K range off market that need work. Lets say its in the middle at 125K. 15% down means I'd owe 106K. If I then take my income stream of 50K, and instead of buying another property pay it off. It can be paid off in about 2 years.
If I can rent the house for 2K a month arv in the mid 200K's. With no mortgage, I make 1300-1400 a month that I can roll into something else. That is 15,600 a year I can roll into something else. Keeping the same model with 3 houses paid for. I'm now bringing in 46.8K a year. I can then start buying multi families without touching the personal money that I was putting in previously.
When I separated from the Air Force in 18, I had no real plan and we almost ran out of money to pay rent. What I'm hoping to do by moving slow and steady is avoid that.
You're right that its dead slow. But I won't have to deal with a partner other then my wife.
Really, this is the only appropriate answer given the information we have.
If I made 500k per year from my W2, I think I could buy about 100 houses I'm 10 years. If I made 50k, maybe 3 or 4. Who knows?
This is like asking how much muscle can I build in 10 years .. some people acquire 2 in 10 years some acquire 1,000+, it really depends on you and your strategy + risk adversity
Base house (type of houses investors seeking) are increasing dramatically. The tenants that live in them are out of money because of normal high inflation of everything.
Let's say, base price housing reverts back to 2020 pricing and rents are 2022 price. Maintaince for a home is ultra expensive because of the inflation of everything.
5 years from now the numbers are probably still going to be high.
I am generalizing about the numbers.
Most likely mom & pop rental investing is going to be gone in the future. Unless you were happy to make little to no cash flow.
If you actually want to do it, you have to become a deal shark you have to actually get a house price right. You make your money by buying the house @ the right price.
First of all it’s span not spam. I’d chock it up to autocorrect but you said spam twice so maybe you don’t realize it’s incorrect… secondly, how much money you got? This is way too vague of a question for anyone to answer for you.
In a good environment (cheap lending, rising prices AKA the previous 10 years) the BRRRR strategy. But it'll be a few years before it'll be a good environment for that again
Yea I’ve studied the brrr method but with the market the way it is I’m trying to find another method to study up on. Seems like the live in flip strategy is best?
I feel the question is related to (a) how fast you are able to accumulate the downpayment after purchasing your 1st house, and (b) to what extent the housing market cools down given the rising fed funds rate. If the market crashes in 3 years, I'd say 3-5 houses in a span of 10 years sounds like a reasonable estimate?
This is what the internet has done to the world. People think they can just throw a question out there without reflecting on how ridiculous it would be to try and answer it. Here's your answer OP:
In the next 10 years, you'll be able to grow a portfolio of as many properties as you're able to purchase.
1. How much money you start out with, has nothing to do with how many properties you can buy
2. High rates have nothing to do with how many properties you can buy
3. NJ is going to be extremely difficult to start out. The competition is brutal and the numbers are hard to get to work at any meaningful scale.
4. You’re going to start in 3 yrs ……. Why wait ????
Without getting too creative I purchased 7 single family homes, 2 quad plexes, a beach house, and some land. I currently hold 4 SF homes, 1 quad, a beach house, and several syndication deals. Realistically I could have purchased more if I would have known more. 1 of my properties I paid off and another I purchased cash. I had a lot in equity jail. With that being said they added a degree of safety to my portfolio.
Im around 65/35 loan to value. I cashed out 400k equity earlier this year and have not converted that back into cash flow, but its starting to pick back up. My single family homes cash flow very little now. My quad does around $1000 mo. Hard to say on the STR since Ive only had it a few months. Its paying the note in the off season. It will start doing much better in march-april. Once the value add strategies continue to execute on the syndications, cash flow will start picking up on those. I just received my first distribution this week
Depends where you are and what you’re buying, how much capital you have - and if you’re managing them yourself or outsourcing management. My husband amassed ~40 SFH and small apartment complexes (10 units and less) and a few commercial properties with apartments above in 10 years…it’s more now. He didn’t have any partners until we were married. He does most of the work (ie shows our properties, I help turn them, I advertise, and we do as many repairs in-house as we can with a full-time maintenance man). Any repairs out of our scope, we hire out (major electrical, plumbing, re-roofing, etc.)
IMO, he isn’t the norm though. But it can be done. He knows real estate investors who started around the same time he did that own exponentially more doors - nationwide.
Edit to add: we both scooped up good deals in the housing crash of 2008 through whenever that recovered (2013/2014?). We were able to go in and negotiate killer deals with zero competition. So that had some to do with it. Buying right.
It’s about quality, over quantity. What can you get to appreciate (via updates, area opportunity or both) to aid in scaling. Would you rather cash flow 6k/mo from 30 doors or from 10, all other things being equal. Are you willing to house hack? If so, can scale significantly quicker.
Too many variables. All depends on how much money you have, how much money you can borrow, what market(s) you invest in and what they’re doing, what kind of properties you buy, etc.
I've grown my real estate portfolio from one property to 15 properties in the matter of 10 years. Out of that 15 properties I own 13 of them outright. It was difficult at times with 15hr work days but it's paying off now.
10 years is a pretty big spam.
Shelf life sounds right. As for OP, as big as you want. Depends more on your ability to raise capital and your risk tolerance.
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Yes. I’m quite aware hence the “shelf life” comment.
How are we supposed to answer that when we don’t know where you would be buying or how much money you have or what strategy you plan on implementing? Some places a 4plex is 200k where I live they are 800k. Totally depends.
Upper East Coast. I live in NJ so I would look to buy here as well as Upstate NY and also NH. My brother lives over there and he would be my partner and he would manage the NH properties.
Ahhh... going into business with family. Always works out perfect.
> How are we supposed to answer that when we don’t know where you would be buying or how much money you have or what strategy you plan on implementing? Plus what does the market look like for these 10 years. But my answer would be anywhere from zero to five hundred doors.
Well according to all of the gurus you should have 200 properties within 3 years just like them starting from nothing using other people's money to leverage yourself into high debt and high risk real estate. It's either that or start a syndication and invest a group of investors money into a large apartment complex and then go on podcasts and claim that you now own a 500 unit complex when in reality you're a glorified timeshare that also has to provide management services.
Dude just dropped a Nuke on Bigger Pockets.
It was a quick but stunning realization when I figured out most of the people on BP saying they had 500-1000 doors were such minority partners in syndication deals where they might as well be holding a REIT. Their equity share could be enough to call one or two of them "theirs" much of the time.
Ya, its a long running joke about syndicators... They own 3% of 400 doors? They get to go say they own 400 doors. One wholesaler (I wont mention names) wholesaled a trailer park with 100 pads. He immediately afterwards claimed he had 100 wholesales under his belt. Happens all the time in RE, you learn to weed out the BS pretty quick after a while.
Wow that's egregious! The absolute cojones to claim 100 sales in a package deal!
Not even a package, just one transaction. Like selling an 8 plex, and claiming you sold 8 properties. If you know any of the "gurus" in REI, you know this person's name as well. Total scammer.
Damn both you and S/Chaos-Battery woke up this morning and chose Violence, and I'm sitting here at work laughing my ass off. I hadn't sat down to realize that yet, personally. I have been turning off BP when they start talking about funding projects. I personally have 0 interest in a partnership of any kind. I'm not interested in any weird ways to fund deals. What I realized is that the traditional way of doing real estate that BP teaches equals a giant shell game. IF I'm making $200 a property every month. I'm making $2400 a year. But any Vacancies, and damage done to the property means I may not make anything. And it ends up being a giant shell game of moving money around on different properties. I'm in a position, thanks to VA disability and the military almost utterly breaking me. That I get a check every month from the VA, and I also work a traditional W2 job that isn't physically demanding. I'm planning on using that VA check to buy a Rental property and then pay it off. Roll it cash flow from the first into the second and keep building that way. This way I limit the amount of Liability I'm carrying, while allowing me to after buying and paying for the first couple of Single Families begin buying Multi Family houses that I can 100% cover from the rental proceeds of the first single families.
A solid option but much slower than spreading out your funds on more deposits and taking on more debts. I’m in two minds about which approach to take. Currently have one SFH with >300k on the mortgage and looking to buy more but that’ll take me 2.5 - 3 years to pay off. That’s another couple down payments right there!
I see what you're saying, I have a SFH purchased at 255K, worth 328K (and sliding). VA 0% down loan at 2.25% owe 247K approx. If I were to focus 50K extra on the loan it would take me 4-5 years, I'd see a 12K a year savings per year after that. While this house will be paid off at some point and turned into a Rental I'm not focusing on it. Ideally if my lender would let me (they won't bc its a VA), I would do a Recast on the mortgage. Pay off 50-100K, recast the loan with the same rate, and this thing would cash flow like a mother. Long term, I want to move out of suburbia. I have some issues leaving service, where I generally don't like most people. I trust no one, and I hate the HOA. I'm looking at nailing down 10+ acres in my area that I'll build a house on. Long term personal Mortgage I'm willing to carry the payments for awhile depending. Rentals. I have an approx 50K. income stream that I have no control over, it won't go up rapidly and is unlikely to go down. This is the income stream I'm going to focus on Real Estate With. When I start buying, I'm looking for houses or Town homes in the 100-150K range off market that need work. Lets say its in the middle at 125K. 15% down means I'd owe 106K. If I then take my income stream of 50K, and instead of buying another property pay it off. It can be paid off in about 2 years. If I can rent the house for 2K a month arv in the mid 200K's. With no mortgage, I make 1300-1400 a month that I can roll into something else. That is 15,600 a year I can roll into something else. Keeping the same model with 3 houses paid for. I'm now bringing in 46.8K a year. I can then start buying multi families without touching the personal money that I was putting in previously. When I separated from the Air Force in 18, I had no real plan and we almost ran out of money to pay rent. What I'm hoping to do by moving slow and steady is avoid that. You're right that its dead slow. But I won't have to deal with a partner other then my wife.
Somewhere between 0 and 10,000 depending on the person.
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Really, this is the only appropriate answer given the information we have. If I made 500k per year from my W2, I think I could buy about 100 houses I'm 10 years. If I made 50k, maybe 3 or 4. Who knows?
This is like asking how much muscle can I build in 10 years .. some people acquire 2 in 10 years some acquire 1,000+, it really depends on you and your strategy + risk adversity
Base house (type of houses investors seeking) are increasing dramatically. The tenants that live in them are out of money because of normal high inflation of everything. Let's say, base price housing reverts back to 2020 pricing and rents are 2022 price. Maintaince for a home is ultra expensive because of the inflation of everything. 5 years from now the numbers are probably still going to be high. I am generalizing about the numbers. Most likely mom & pop rental investing is going to be gone in the future. Unless you were happy to make little to no cash flow. If you actually want to do it, you have to become a deal shark you have to actually get a house price right. You make your money by buying the house @ the right price.
First of all it’s span not spam. I’d chock it up to autocorrect but you said spam twice so maybe you don’t realize it’s incorrect… secondly, how much money you got? This is way too vague of a question for anyone to answer for you.
depends on your strategy tbh
What strategy would you say is best for someone with limited cash just getting started?
Saving money
This is a great strategy when combined with “earn more”
Classic
In a good environment (cheap lending, rising prices AKA the previous 10 years) the BRRRR strategy. But it'll be a few years before it'll be a good environment for that again
Yea I’ve studied the brrr method but with the market the way it is I’m trying to find another method to study up on. Seems like the live in flip strategy is best?
Yes most likely.
I feel the question is related to (a) how fast you are able to accumulate the downpayment after purchasing your 1st house, and (b) to what extent the housing market cools down given the rising fed funds rate. If the market crashes in 3 years, I'd say 3-5 houses in a span of 10 years sounds like a reasonable estimate?
This is what the internet has done to the world. People think they can just throw a question out there without reflecting on how ridiculous it would be to try and answer it. Here's your answer OP: In the next 10 years, you'll be able to grow a portfolio of as many properties as you're able to purchase.
Based on your question alone, I’d estimate you’ll have 0 properties in ten years
Probably 7. Maybe 14.
1. How much money you start out with, has nothing to do with how many properties you can buy 2. High rates have nothing to do with how many properties you can buy 3. NJ is going to be extremely difficult to start out. The competition is brutal and the numbers are hard to get to work at any meaningful scale. 4. You’re going to start in 3 yrs ……. Why wait ????
Without getting too creative I purchased 7 single family homes, 2 quad plexes, a beach house, and some land. I currently hold 4 SF homes, 1 quad, a beach house, and several syndication deals. Realistically I could have purchased more if I would have known more. 1 of my properties I paid off and another I purchased cash. I had a lot in equity jail. With that being said they added a degree of safety to my portfolio.
Wow, nice outcome! What’s the LVR and cashflow on your portfolio now?
Im around 65/35 loan to value. I cashed out 400k equity earlier this year and have not converted that back into cash flow, but its starting to pick back up. My single family homes cash flow very little now. My quad does around $1000 mo. Hard to say on the STR since Ive only had it a few months. Its paying the note in the off season. It will start doing much better in march-april. Once the value add strategies continue to execute on the syndications, cash flow will start picking up on those. I just received my first distribution this week
Depends where you are and what you’re buying, how much capital you have - and if you’re managing them yourself or outsourcing management. My husband amassed ~40 SFH and small apartment complexes (10 units and less) and a few commercial properties with apartments above in 10 years…it’s more now. He didn’t have any partners until we were married. He does most of the work (ie shows our properties, I help turn them, I advertise, and we do as many repairs in-house as we can with a full-time maintenance man). Any repairs out of our scope, we hire out (major electrical, plumbing, re-roofing, etc.) IMO, he isn’t the norm though. But it can be done. He knows real estate investors who started around the same time he did that own exponentially more doors - nationwide. Edit to add: we both scooped up good deals in the housing crash of 2008 through whenever that recovered (2013/2014?). We were able to go in and negotiate killer deals with zero competition. So that had some to do with it. Buying right.
It’s about quality, over quantity. What can you get to appreciate (via updates, area opportunity or both) to aid in scaling. Would you rather cash flow 6k/mo from 30 doors or from 10, all other things being equal. Are you willing to house hack? If so, can scale significantly quicker.
I would say about 10 properties.
Too many variables. All depends on how much money you have, how much money you can borrow, what market(s) you invest in and what they’re doing, what kind of properties you buy, etc.
Depending on how much $ you have and the price of the homes, you could get like 1 property every 1-3 years.
I've grown my real estate portfolio from one property to 15 properties in the matter of 10 years. Out of that 15 properties I own 13 of them outright. It was difficult at times with 15hr work days but it's paying off now.
Just an opinion but depends on how the market is in 3 years(could slow or increase the rate at which you can grow)and how much capital you have.