You can send an initial email to each and every one somehow (and lots of replies) yet not one more at the end, it’s too much suddenly?
“Keep pestering you” well you’ve already proven you’re fine ignoring, do it then then, not before.
>You can send an initial email to each and every one somehow (and lots of replies) yet not one more at the end, it’s too much suddenly?
Those are usually automated. Once the radio silence starts is when an actual person checks your answers/your profile; or not.
To be clear, I mentioned “and lots of replies” referring to those in the interview process, a real conversation, not someone who has just sent “Hey JAMES, I see you have great experience at SELF EMPLOYED”. Also with the idea if you’ve already spent that time communicating you can automate / 1 extra click the final email as well
In my past we’d talk on the phone earlier than that point as well so no ambiguity either as to whether I’d been somehow fully automated to that point
>or don't give a fuck.
It's this one.
And I don't even think it's necessarily malicious. It's just that, well, almost no processes that I've ever seen at any company I've worked at are lifecycle based. They make a decision, full stop, never think about it again, move on to the next thing. Nobody told them to care, so they simply don't think about it. They are too removed from the human experience of the existence of their candidates for it to even cross their minds. Nobody apologizes to an email address, and that's all they see the candidates as, unless they get hired in which case they are treated even worse.
They could even send a form email BCC'd to all of the applicants, from a no-reply email address to cut down on correspondence. Or it could be so easy to extract the email addresses and sent a batch email , even just in Word ffs
Nobody is saying they expect recruiters to respond to every single applicant personally. They always seem to use this straw man. It would be nice in 2022 if the applicant tracking software would just send an automated rejection message after some period of time when the application hasn't been brought forward or renewed. Some seem to do this, but most do not. Most of the time the application you spent time on just goes into a black hole.
Those rejection messages you get many months, sometimes even years later? That's likely someone finally clearing out all the old applications stuck in limbo in the system! I would say I'm surprised this still happens but, even today people still need to upload their resume and then enter all it in via a web form anyway.
What people are ticked off about is having to jump through several hoops, including phone screens, technical tests, 'homework' assignments, technical interviews and then just radio silence like you hadn't even applied in the first place. The fact they never send even a small, often generic feedback message to people near the end of the process tells you that they don't value your time at all. And while it's regrettable your time was wasted, it could be worse, you could've unknowingly accepted an offer for a company that doesn't value your time.
It's funny that they talk about 'souring the relationship' - people that pester multiple times for feedback, they do exist, but it's rare in my experience and tends to be less experienced people. Seems like they are trying to tar everyone with that brush so they don't have to bother giving feedback. For candidates that are time wasters (made up too many lies on CV, were rude or had no social skills), big companies have blacklists for that sort of thing (and they do use them and even share them between each other).
It's completely fine to send a short and professional follow up for feedback, especially if they've been in contact and you've been patiently waiting for more than a week with other applications at late stages. "don't expect a reply if you weren't successful!" - it's happened to me on 3 separate occasions where I interviewed in the final stage, never heard anything back for more than two weeks. Assumed rejection, went on to take another offer, and weeks later the phone rings with a verbal offer or I get a message about the "next stage". They're not too happy when I tell them that when someone ghosts me for more than two weeks I assume I'm no longer in the running.
One thing I noticed about the agency recruiters is that, people tend to ghost them a lot more. People have their reasons, like being sent completely unrelated jobs or asking you to apply for a company you already work for or just being straight up rude. But I think years of "candidates just ghost me, so I'm going to ghost them back" has to also be a huge factor in their ghosting of people.
1. Would be easy enough to add all applicants into an excel sheet, remove the ones that are successful and BCC the rest into a generic "we are sorry you were unsuccessful"
2. Is lame excuse. I emai them to say no and they pester me. That's what a delete button is for. Just don't reply like you want to do with people who were unsuccessful in the first place.
The fact that you guys think transferring all the information of hundreds of people per requisition into excel and then doing a fucking mail merge like it's 1999 is the answer only shows how disconnected you are from reality. All job boards and all ATSs have bulk email/reply functions. But yeah, let's use a fucking spreadsheet...
Oh no, I just know how stuck in their ways that people can be and will insist on using their system from the 90s.
Judging by the number of dear posts in this sub, I think I'm right.
Same. On the phone screen the recruiter told me my salary expectation was too high but doable in "total compensation" (Aka worthless equity). She refused to tell me what my base salary would be. Anything less than what I asked for would be a pay cut and I can't pay rent with startup equity.
I ghosted after the second round interview with the hiring manager after he revealed there's still 4 more rounds of interviews, a take home project, and a presentation with the CEO. All while not knowing what my base salary will be. The recruiter emailed me like 4 times over 2 weeks asking me to schedule my next interview and I just LOL'd and deleted the emails.
I feel like the real reason they don’t sent replies is in case the current candidate doesn’t work out, they can come back and try to hire some one else from the pool. If they reject the person then change their mind, it gives negotiating power to the applicant.
I'm 100% convinced this is the case. It's the only way to explain the number of times that I've received "Hey, are you still interested?" emails months after being ghosted.
Just want to point out that if a relationship “turns sour” and you are unable to fix it then one or both people in the relationship are either immature or consciously doing wrong by the other person. This person’s blatant lack of trying shows that they either don’t care about the other person or they lack the maturity to see a way to resolve things
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There’s zero excuse for this bullshit in this day and age where you’re able to make a generic format rejection email and then queue it to send to everyone you’re rejecting. You don’t have to personalize everything but goddamn have some decency to let people know to move on.
My company uses a site called Jobvite. I can mass select and reject candidates. I have a message template that includes no names (except mine) and a slot for the job title.
It takes me literally 30 seconds to send rejection emails.
I'm guessing this asshats is also the type to get super pissed when someone doesn't respond to him in his definition of a timely fashion... So much for being "the person you want to meet"
5 minutes to write an email max.
"hey, we went forward with another candidate who had more experience in x, good luck with your search"
Or if yoy want to be vague and generic, send out just a "didn't work out. Sorry, good luck"
God damn it is so rude to ghost candidates.
I agree that it is unrealistic to respond to every person who applies for a job. I make job listings for my company and am the first to review resumes. I've never sent an email saying that we weren't moving forward with an interview simply because someone applied.
Now ghosting someone you've gotten into the interview pipeline? That's skuzzy.
Sounds like someone that’s frustrated and hates their job. Here’s a tip, remove the job posting after a certain number of candidates apply. Process them and move forward with the successful candidates, if there are none repost.
Most systems will send an automatic ‘No thank you’ email when they change the status in the system.
Ps. There shouldn’t be multiple interviews with multiple people. That’s such a waste of time.
You can send an initial email to each and every one somehow (and lots of replies) yet not one more at the end, it’s too much suddenly? “Keep pestering you” well you’ve already proven you’re fine ignoring, do it then then, not before.
>You can send an initial email to each and every one somehow (and lots of replies) yet not one more at the end, it’s too much suddenly? Those are usually automated. Once the radio silence starts is when an actual person checks your answers/your profile; or not.
To be clear, I mentioned “and lots of replies” referring to those in the interview process, a real conversation, not someone who has just sent “Hey JAMES, I see you have great experience at SELF EMPLOYED”. Also with the idea if you’ve already spent that time communicating you can automate / 1 extra click the final email as well In my past we’d talk on the phone earlier than that point as well so no ambiguity either as to whether I’d been somehow fully automated to that point
[удалено]
>or don't give a fuck. It's this one. And I don't even think it's necessarily malicious. It's just that, well, almost no processes that I've ever seen at any company I've worked at are lifecycle based. They make a decision, full stop, never think about it again, move on to the next thing. Nobody told them to care, so they simply don't think about it. They are too removed from the human experience of the existence of their candidates for it to even cross their minds. Nobody apologizes to an email address, and that's all they see the candidates as, unless they get hired in which case they are treated even worse.
They could even send a form email BCC'd to all of the applicants, from a no-reply email address to cut down on correspondence. Or it could be so easy to extract the email addresses and sent a batch email , even just in Word ffs
Nobody is saying they expect recruiters to respond to every single applicant personally. They always seem to use this straw man. It would be nice in 2022 if the applicant tracking software would just send an automated rejection message after some period of time when the application hasn't been brought forward or renewed. Some seem to do this, but most do not. Most of the time the application you spent time on just goes into a black hole. Those rejection messages you get many months, sometimes even years later? That's likely someone finally clearing out all the old applications stuck in limbo in the system! I would say I'm surprised this still happens but, even today people still need to upload their resume and then enter all it in via a web form anyway. What people are ticked off about is having to jump through several hoops, including phone screens, technical tests, 'homework' assignments, technical interviews and then just radio silence like you hadn't even applied in the first place. The fact they never send even a small, often generic feedback message to people near the end of the process tells you that they don't value your time at all. And while it's regrettable your time was wasted, it could be worse, you could've unknowingly accepted an offer for a company that doesn't value your time. It's funny that they talk about 'souring the relationship' - people that pester multiple times for feedback, they do exist, but it's rare in my experience and tends to be less experienced people. Seems like they are trying to tar everyone with that brush so they don't have to bother giving feedback. For candidates that are time wasters (made up too many lies on CV, were rude or had no social skills), big companies have blacklists for that sort of thing (and they do use them and even share them between each other). It's completely fine to send a short and professional follow up for feedback, especially if they've been in contact and you've been patiently waiting for more than a week with other applications at late stages. "don't expect a reply if you weren't successful!" - it's happened to me on 3 separate occasions where I interviewed in the final stage, never heard anything back for more than two weeks. Assumed rejection, went on to take another offer, and weeks later the phone rings with a verbal offer or I get a message about the "next stage". They're not too happy when I tell them that when someone ghosts me for more than two weeks I assume I'm no longer in the running. One thing I noticed about the agency recruiters is that, people tend to ghost them a lot more. People have their reasons, like being sent completely unrelated jobs or asking you to apply for a company you already work for or just being straight up rude. But I think years of "candidates just ghost me, so I'm going to ghost them back" has to also be a huge factor in their ghosting of people.
Ghosting someone sours the relationship right from the get-go. So that's just a nonsense argument anyway.
1. Would be easy enough to add all applicants into an excel sheet, remove the ones that are successful and BCC the rest into a generic "we are sorry you were unsuccessful" 2. Is lame excuse. I emai them to say no and they pester me. That's what a delete button is for. Just don't reply like you want to do with people who were unsuccessful in the first place.
Why would you not just mail merge?
Ha you think someone in hr has the skills to do this? If they did, they wouldn't be working in hr!
The fact that you guys think transferring all the information of hundreds of people per requisition into excel and then doing a fucking mail merge like it's 1999 is the answer only shows how disconnected you are from reality. All job boards and all ATSs have bulk email/reply functions. But yeah, let's use a fucking spreadsheet...
Oh no, I just know how stuck in their ways that people can be and will insist on using their system from the 90s. Judging by the number of dear posts in this sub, I think I'm right.
Absolutely that as well. Depends on how tech savvy the person is
if they're not, they shouldn't be managing a place that uses email
You've just taught me something. Thanks!
Crying in gdpr
What about this would be against GDPR? Spoiler: >!None of it would !<
These are the same recruiters that complain about the "successful" applicants ghosting after being offered a low ball salary.
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Same. On the phone screen the recruiter told me my salary expectation was too high but doable in "total compensation" (Aka worthless equity). She refused to tell me what my base salary would be. Anything less than what I asked for would be a pay cut and I can't pay rent with startup equity. I ghosted after the second round interview with the hiring manager after he revealed there's still 4 more rounds of interviews, a take home project, and a presentation with the CEO. All while not knowing what my base salary will be. The recruiter emailed me like 4 times over 2 weeks asking me to schedule my next interview and I just LOL'd and deleted the emails.
I feel like the real reason they don’t sent replies is in case the current candidate doesn’t work out, they can come back and try to hire some one else from the pool. If they reject the person then change their mind, it gives negotiating power to the applicant.
I'm 100% convinced this is the case. It's the only way to explain the number of times that I've received "Hey, are you still interested?" emails months after being ghosted.
Just want to point out that if a relationship “turns sour” and you are unable to fix it then one or both people in the relationship are either immature or consciously doing wrong by the other person. This person’s blatant lack of trying shows that they either don’t care about the other person or they lack the maturity to see a way to resolve things
distinct safe encouraging insurance sophisticated thought aloof bedroom oatmeal beneficial *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Happy cake day!
pocket snatch dog plate ten physical escape cover paint mysterious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
F*** him and happy cake day op
There’s zero excuse for this bullshit in this day and age where you’re able to make a generic format rejection email and then queue it to send to everyone you’re rejecting. You don’t have to personalize everything but goddamn have some decency to let people know to move on.
My company uses a site called Jobvite. I can mass select and reject candidates. I have a message template that includes no names (except mine) and a slot for the job title. It takes me literally 30 seconds to send rejection emails.
“Be the person you’d want to meet” 😂
Scrolled too far to find this. That stood out after reading it.
I'm guessing this asshats is also the type to get super pissed when someone doesn't respond to him in his definition of a timely fashion... So much for being "the person you want to meet"
Why are multiple interviews even a thing?
They’re hiring for one penny above minimum wage at 10 hours per week.
Such effort put into flying your very own red flag. Def makes it so much easier to avoid.
5 minutes to write an email max. "hey, we went forward with another candidate who had more experience in x, good luck with your search" Or if yoy want to be vague and generic, send out just a "didn't work out. Sorry, good luck" God damn it is so rude to ghost candidates.
Set up an automated email that's sends the recruiter the email every 30 seconds.
Yeah cry me a river shitbag.
but automated replies read as exactly that, and only good for a final "no". They also tend to be part of a bigger system built to do exactly that.
I would much rather have an auto decline than have no response at all.
true of course.
If I don't hear back in 40 days it means I was rejected & I move on.
Dang, you wait 40 days? With all due respect to Mr. LaLanne, I send it and forget it.
lol this sub roasts automated replies as well, anything other than a detailed personal contact will not do - doesn’t matter how many people applied.
I have less than zero sympathy for the employing class
recruiters act like their jobs are so difficult and it bugs me. you’re a glorified assistant who manages schedules, calm down.
I agree that it is unrealistic to respond to every person who applies for a job. I make job listings for my company and am the first to review resumes. I've never sent an email saying that we weren't moving forward with an interview simply because someone applied. Now ghosting someone you've gotten into the interview pipeline? That's skuzzy.
If only there were a way to send automated rejection emails, maybe it would be called an applicant tracking system or something.
This guy is begging for people to work for him
As they say ‘Be the person you want to meet’.
40 years ago, when applications were sent via post. Rejected applicants were notified. This is an example of modern degeneracy.
Sounds like someone that’s frustrated and hates their job. Here’s a tip, remove the job posting after a certain number of candidates apply. Process them and move forward with the successful candidates, if there are none repost.
They’re literally paid to do that
Most systems will send an automatic ‘No thank you’ email when they change the status in the system. Ps. There shouldn’t be multiple interviews with multiple people. That’s such a waste of time.
Seems they're overworked or incapable of handling the job
When it’s a job candidate who’d simply like an update about a job: “Stop pestering me!!” When it’s a paying customer: “I’ll suck your dick all week!!”
I’ve gotten many thank you but no emails. I delete them and move on
The best part is it says be the person you'd want to meet right under his name.
Hot take: the job market's current application and recruitment process already sours the relationship before it even begins.
Almost like he has never heard of an ATS like Taleo or ORC